AO-SDL updates | Attorney Online | Page 2

chilly ridge Apr 2, 2026, 8:46 AM

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That's just the default discord filter.

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I'm sure if you give them a complaint ticket they'll consider it.

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 8:46 AM

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i'm not doing that

chilly ridge Apr 2, 2026, 8:46 AM

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I understand.

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I won't either.

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 8:47 AM

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https://tenor.com/view/nichijou-anime-handshake-bros-shake-hands-gif-12270042

Tenor

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:47 AM

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if im writing something Real™ like a driver or anything touching physical addresses

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i would rather eat my own shit than touch rust or cpp

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 8:48 AM

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oh damn there is a flutter app in ao-sdl

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:48 AM

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i've been told that rust's async i/o api is "really good actually"

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c++ almost has one in cpp20

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 8:48 AM

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hell nah rust async is terrible

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 8:49 AM

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chatgpt isn't getting paid to work on windows 11

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:49 AM

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the only language with async i/o that doesnt fucking suck is Go in my experience

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 8:49 AM

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terse bridge chatgpt isn't getting paid to work on windows 11

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:50 AM

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ao-sdl has a multithreaded http server with an event loop as well as async network i/o for the client if you want an idea of what it looks like in cpp

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 8:50 AM

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go is a language for linkedin posters and bpd transgenders

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:50 AM

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is this true

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 8:50 AM

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only two people i knew who were go evangelists were the former and the latter

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:50 AM

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does rust have any sort of functioning bindings for vk/ogl yet

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 8:51 AM

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thick osprey does rust have any sort of functioning bindings for vk/ogl yet

yeah it's called wgpu

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:51 AM

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or is it still "some guy in his basement made an ffi to the c api that doesnt load the driver fps properly or work at all"

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wgpu is not bindings to vk/ogl

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its a graphics library that uses them on the backend

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 8:52 AM

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there is ash for vulkan

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:52 AM

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neat

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is there anything for metal

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or, for that matter, is there literally any obj-c ffi that isnt utter cock and ball torture

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 8:53 AM

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thick osprey is there anything for metal

objc2-metal

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good luck using objective c with rust

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:53 AM

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objc++ is bad enough

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do you know how many times ive been burned by "ARC and stl containers dont play nice"

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if you std::move an obj-c object the OS gets a wide shit eating grin and starts buffering up the crash report before you even run the app

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 8:55 AM

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I have only ever used ARC for trying to mod geometry dash (because cocos2d-x has objc roots and it mainly uses ARC)

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:55 AM

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i still dont know what @autoreleasepool does and at this point i'm scared to ask

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 8:56 AM

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i had to learn an appreciable amount of ActionScript because a programmer who shall not be named wrote a bunch of nintendo ds graphics tooling in it for some godforsaken reason

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:56 AM

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isnt that literally the scripting language for adobe flash

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 8:56 AM

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Yes

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It compiles to .swf

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 8:57 AM

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lol

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the fact that objc++ works at all is just like

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i have no words for it honestly

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it feels so cursed

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        std::string combined = shader->vertex_source() + "\n" + shader->fragment_source();
        NSString *src = [NSString stringWithUTF8String:combined.c_str()];

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this is REAL code written by REAL macos developers

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        id<MTLTexture> view() const { return (__bridge id<MTLTexture>)view_ref; }
        void set_view(id<MTLTexture> v) {
            if (view_ref)
                CFRelease(view_ref);
            view_ref = v ? CFRetain((__bridge CFTypeRef)v) : nullptr;
        }

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statements dreamed up by the utterly insane

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:01 AM

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all of this for metal support?

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:01 AM

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i mean

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its either that or wrap it in a C API

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or write the entire thing in swift

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i could ship moltenvk but then

i'd have to write a vulkan backend (i honestly need to do this anyways because ogl's global state shitpile doesnt play nice with qt, and also android support)
i'd lose out on being able to do zero-copy "GPU" allocations and the memory usage would bloat to shit from the asset cache shadowing the "GPU" memory
i have no idea what the runtime for that looks like and i honestly dont want to figure it out
i kind of don't trust it fully

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dont even get me started on ogl

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cant believe it took like 20 years for AMD to say "ok enough is enough" with that flaming garbage pile

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why the fuck is everything in global state? why does glBind exist at all? it already has opaque identifier tokens, how hard is it to just pass that into an idempotent api???

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:05 AM

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thick osprey i *could* ship moltenvk but then 1. i'd have to write a vulkan backend (i honest...

for mobile support can't you just use flutters impeller backend? or am I missing something

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:06 AM

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shrewd fox for mobile support can't you just use flutters impeller backend? or am I missing...

why maintain a separate parallel backend implementation when i already have metal and (eventually) vulkan? its just another thing to test and maintain and get broken

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:07 AM

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I do like Cargo too.

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:07 AM

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also

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impeller operates at a higher level of abstraction

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ao-sdl has a full 2D scene graph and compositor

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i'd just be doing hacks to parse that structure and hand it off to impeller to just... create the same thing on its backend

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:08 AM

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makes sense

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:09 AM

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have you dug into ao-sdl at all

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it works very fundamentally differently from ao2

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for example, the "renderer" is not made from form widgets

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:09 AM

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I read the Architecture.md and I'm just browsing through the issues

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that's how much I dug into ao-sdl

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:10 AM

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neat

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the architecture.md is a tiny bit outdated

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main things its missing are:

the custom http implementation i added and the http/2 dualstacking via nghttp2
the entire server architecture

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:11 AM

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I love that Qt OpenGL SceneGraph is so dogshit that it basically requires Vulkan.

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 9:11 AM

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thick osprey for example, the "renderer" is not made from form widgets

my beautiful QLabels.....

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:11 AM

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idk if i put it in the architecture doc either but theres also a platform abstraction backend via link-time polymorphism

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which used to just have some tiny helpers

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but now the socket and poll apis live there too

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:12 AM

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loud falcon my beautiful QLabels.....

NGL, for what it's worth, those Labels were probably the most performant render labels in Qt history.

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Given there are people out there who still think QMovie is not utter dogshit.

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 9:13 AM

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i should PR aolayer in to replace qmovie

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:13 AM

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i was using httplib but its server implementation is dogshit (one thread per client inside of a fixed-size thread pool)

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:13 AM

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loud falcon i should PR aolayer in to replace qmovie

Replace QMovie with multi threaded form widget render for maximum performance.

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:13 AM

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i also found some cheap header-only socket abstraction but it didnt support polling

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so all of that converged and i had to just

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write http

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i think it works

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i added unit tests against the core parts of the rfc

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:14 AM

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I am still mesmerized by the fact that it just works

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:15 AM

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i didnt implement http/2 on the server side

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i think its far more pragmatic to just let people sit caddy in front of it

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for that reason i didnt bother with ssl on the server side either

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:16 AM

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That's the defacto status quo on AO2 too.

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Wether it's NGINX, Apache or Cloudflare

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:17 AM

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yeah, it just makes sense

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handling ssl fucking sucks anyways

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have you ever had to parse an os certificate store

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:17 AM

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Yes

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:17 AM

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have you ever had to deal with the awful leaky abstraction that is OpenSSL BIO

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:17 AM

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No.

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Querying the certificate store is hell unless it's already a tool native to the OS

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Powershell my beloved

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:18 AM

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dont even get me started on openssl

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it was funny when i was statically linking it in the macos binary and it inflated to like 8MB because brew's openssl binary had like half a megabyte of precomputed data for an outdated chinese government encryption standard

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it actually also includes the entire webp encoder because parsing animated webps requires some interface that lives in the encoder even though the decoder needs it

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at least now macos uses Network.framework and linux/windows just dynamically link to openssl

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cant do that in macos because shipping .dylibs is cursed and there is no system openssl

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:21 AM

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At least the Qt frontend for the theme creators who want to go super granular is slowly taking shape.

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:22 AM

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theres also definitely a bug in the way that the asset cache image previewer in the debug window interacts with the pinning system and i think it might only exist on macos because on macos it has to blit the assets to a separate texture because of the way the objc semantics interact wi-

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you know i dont think anyone here will understand or care

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i barely do

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its a miracle this codebase works at all

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im a talentless vibecoder hack

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i am gonna give up and start over again from scratch

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:24 AM

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April first was yesterday.

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:25 AM

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what makes you think im joking

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the secret is clean code and good architecture are a myth

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look at anything of sufficient complexity

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all you can do is try to make refactoring easier

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i need to get ready for the launch on friday night

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read: i need to make my sleep schedule intentionally worse

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:32 AM

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thick osprey im a talentless vibecoder hack

wait so the person that I see committing with Claude is you?

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:32 AM

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yes

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i mostly use it for documentation

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it writes all of my commit messages bc otherwise theyd all be "added thing"

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i also use it to write repetitive bullshit that is a waste of my time

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 9:33 AM

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just be like sd and insert inscrutable memes filled with swear words into the commit log forevermore

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:33 AM

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https://github.com/AttorneyOnline/AO-SDL/blob/master/engine/net/Http.cpp#L670-L809

GitHub

AO-SDL/engine/net/Http.cpp at master · AttorneyOnline/AO-SDL

AO reimplemented. Contribute to AttorneyOnline/AO-SDL development by creating an account on GitHub.

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like, you think i'm writing this by hand? lol

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:34 AM

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hell nah

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:34 AM

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I think "updating a buncha files" is a valid commit message

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Or swearing.

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:35 AM

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shrewd fox hell nah

hell nah to which part

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:35 AM

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thick osprey like, you think i'm writing this by hand? lol

this part

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:35 AM

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yeah lol

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i like claude code but its really stupid but its also really smart

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i understand why people kneejerk react to it negatively

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but also like, i feel like you're just wasting your own time at some point if you refuse to touch it on principle

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:36 AM

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Never try to vibe code a SDL to Qt Frontend Migration!

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:36 AM

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in my job, writing code is maybe like

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10-15% of what i do

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writing code isnt the hard part

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designing software is hard

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:37 AM

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me personally I just use gemini to copy code when I'm so lazy

but I mostly write code by hand (unless it's boilerplate)

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ai is GOATED in boilerplate

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:38 AM

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claude wrote basically all of the javadoc-style engine api docs

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as well as the big fancy architecture docs

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but not just freeform

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it just turned my shitty all lowercase hyphenated lists into something useful

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:38 AM

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shrewd fox ai is GOATED in boilerplate

My ass writing the billionth aspect ratio scaling code in QML

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:38 AM

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i do most/all of the api design by hand

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if things are sufficiently hairy (low level, concurrency, etc) i do it by hand

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but idk what i really gain by implementing a function like

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void RestRouter::dispatch(RestEndpoint& endpoint, const http::Request& req, http::Response& res) {
    // CORS headers are set globally via set_default_headers in bind().
    try {
        // Build RestRequest from http::Request (no lock needed — pure parsing)
        RestRequest rest_req;
        rest_req.method = req.method;
        rest_req.path = req.path;

        for (auto& [key, value] : req.path_params)
            rest_req.path_params[key] = value;

        for (auto& [key, value] : req.params)
            rest_req.query_params[key] = value;

        // Parse JSON body if present
        auto content_type = req.get_header_value("Content-Type");
        if (!req.body.empty() && content_type.find("application/json") != std::string::npos) {
            try {
                rest_req.body = nlohmann::json::parse(req.body);
            }
            catch (const nlohmann::json::parse_error&) {
                res.status = 400;
                res.set_content(R"({"reason":"Malformed JSON in request body"})", "application/json");
                return;
            }
        }

        // Extract bearer token
        auto auth_header = req.get_header_value("Authorization");
        if (auth_header.size() > 7 && auth_header.substr(0, 7) == "Bearer ") {
            rest_req.bearer_token = auth_header.substr(7);
        }

        // Single lock for auth + handler — prevents session from being
        // destroyed between the auth check and the handler call.
        RestResponse rest_res;
        {
            std::lock_guard lock(dispatch_mutex_);

            if (endpoint.requires_auth()) {
                if (rest_req.bearer_token.empty()) {
                    res.status = 401;
                    res.set_content(R"({"reason":"Missing session token"})", "application/json");
                    return;
                }
                if (!auth_func_) {
                    res.status = 500;
                    res.set_content(R"({"reason":"Server authentication is not configured"})", "application/json");
                    return;
                }

                rest_req.session = auth_func_(rest_req.bearer_token);
                if (!rest_req.session) {
                    res.status = 401;
                    res.set_content(R"({"reason":"Invalid or expired session token"})", "application/json");
                    return;
                }
                rest_req.session->touch();
            }

            rest_res = endpoint.handle(rest_req);
        }

        // Write response (outside lock — no game state access)
        res.status = rest_res.status;
        if (rest_res.status == 204 || rest_res.body.is_null()) {
            // No content
        }
        else {
            res.set_content(rest_res.body.dump(), rest_res.content_type);
        }
    }
    catch (const std::exception& e) {
        Log::log_print(ERR, "REST: exception in %s %s: %s", endpoint.method().c_str(), endpoint.path_pattern().c_str(),
                       e.what());
        res.status = 500;
        res.set_content(R"({"reason":"An internal server error occurred"})", "application/json");
    }
}

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i just say like "write the dispatcher and wrap the access to shared state in a global lock" and describe the spec

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:41 AM

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I don't really care if something is vibecoded
as long as the code quality is good

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:41 AM

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its easy to vibecode your way into unmaintainable monolithic useless slop

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you have to know where to be opinionated, where to insert your taste and your voice, and wehre to tell it to shut up and change its approach

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its like

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working with a junior engineer who rote memorized every textbook

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it will always reach for the naive implementation, the leaky abstraction, the god class, hit all of the same roadblocks as someone who doesnt know better

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but if you constrain it properly it just makes you insanely fast

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:44 AM

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It also helps a lot to do your research first to give it some initial guidance from the get go or you end up with parent.parent.parent.parent.parent.parent.parent.parent.parent in QML

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:45 AM

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the people who will actually gain something from vibe coding is actual swes who know what they're doing

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:45 AM

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am i an actual swe shy

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:45 AM

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you write code

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:45 AM

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i like baiting people into asking what i do for work because it feels like a credibility truth nuke

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:45 AM

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what does that make you

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:45 AM

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HEY

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YOU STOLE MY FAVORITE PART

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:46 AM

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shrewd fox the people who will actually gain something from vibe coding is actual swes who ...

that's why swes can get alot of value from it
but people who don't know coding will eventually make such shitty code not even Claude can help them

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😶‍🌫️

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:47 AM

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"just shipped my new vibecoded project blobsunglasses "
http://localhost:8080/

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:48 AM

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I've only ever seen that once lmao

I guess they are evolving and realized that maybe localhost isn't how you ship

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they probably use vercel or something similar now

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:48 AM

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"shipping" is an illusion sold to you by aws

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talk to me when you ship your code past the karman line

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 9:48 AM

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whereas "shipping" is the department of the rest of amazon

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:48 AM

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TRUE

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:50 AM

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this is my first time I've seen a flight software engineer

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I thought y'all were still stuck on Ada or something

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:51 AM

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i wish we did anything that sane

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im gonna be the flight controller for the flight software seat on our next launch on friday night

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its cool

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i'm part of the go/no-go poll

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i monitor 30 or so sats as they go through deployment and activation and LEOPs

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triage any issues that show up

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its fun

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:53 AM

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one day I'll be that good

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:53 AM

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i feel like i just kind of lucked into this job myself

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no degree and 3 years of industry experience

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 9:54 AM

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i wish i was a little bi t taller i wish i w as a baller

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:54 AM

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true

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:54 AM

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I only have like 1 year of coding experience lol

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:54 AM

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ive been programming since

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uh

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idk it depends what you call programming

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when i was like 8 i was making "games" in powerpoint using the silde-to-slide transitions sequencing

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 9:55 AM

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What are your guys thoughts on haskell

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:55 AM

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i learned java when i was... 12 or 13?

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:55 AM

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alpine acorn What are your guys thoughts on haskell

I program in Haskell

decent language

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 9:55 AM

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It looks cool

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:55 AM

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i feel like you need a cs phd to understand the type system in haskell

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 9:56 AM

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i dont have an opinion on haskell because the only three languages i know are c++ python and wrightscript

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 9:56 AM

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Phoenix wrightscript

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 9:56 AM

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Yes

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:56 AM

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the type system in haskell is basically Turing complete

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 9:56 AM

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My beloved

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 9:56 AM

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it's the scripting language for pywright

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:56 AM

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literally what it is

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imo there are three kinds of programming languages

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 9:57 AM

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py_pie

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:57 AM

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shrewd fox the type system in haskell is basically Turing complete

It's literally untyped lambda calculus

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 9:57 AM

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In1 writes stuff in PyWright that feels forbiddden.

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 9:57 AM

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i wrote a brainfuck interpreter in it

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 9:57 AM

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Lmao

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OhTheHorrorBugRight

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:58 AM

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shrewd fox It's literally untyped lambda calculus

primaryGravitationalParameter :: !(Quantity ((:*) ((:^) Meter (Succ (Succ (Succ 'Zero)))) ((:^) Second (Pred (Pred 'Zero)))) a)

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 9:58 AM

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those that boil down to machine truth - you are given an abstract machine upon which you operate in an analagous manner to machine code. turing machines
those that boil down to abstraction-truth, the scheme, haskell, FP nonsense of the world, where you operate on the most pure and abstract math-nice things. lambda calculuses
data scientist baby glue - python, ruby, bash scripts, javascript

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 9:59 AM

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Oh like a @hard wing

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 9:59 AM

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shrewd fox `primaryGravitationalParameter :: !(Quantity ((:*) ((:^) Meter (Succ (Succ (Succ...

you can even describe your api in the type system

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with servant

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 10:00 AM

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noble drum In1 writes stuff in PyWright that feels forbiddden.

i feel like you can express most of what's fucked up about wrightscript with the two horsemen of the stringpocalypse

the base type of all data is string, including pointers
substr() does not exist

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 10:01 AM

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shrewd fox `primaryGravitationalParameter :: !(Quantity ((:*) ((:^) Meter (Succ (Succ (Succ...

Pred mentioned, time to make it a VORE CASE

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:01 AM

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picardia

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:01 AM

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shrewd fox `primaryGravitationalParameter :: !(Quantity ((:*) ((:^) Meter (Succ (Succ (Succ...

succ

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 10:01 AM

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lockSucc

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:02 AM

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thick osprey succ

I think that's just church numerals

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:03 AM

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the perfect programming language already exists

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and it was made at bell labs in the 70s

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:03 AM

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Its

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Python

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. . .

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:04 AM

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the second best programming language is just a code generator for the best programming language that gives you things like "type safety" and "smart pointers" and "containers"

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every C++ program can be described with an equivalent C program

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 10:05 AM

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Templates:

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:06 AM

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templates are literally just "generate a type specific implementation of this for me automatically"

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 10:06 AM

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Aren't they adding reflection to C++23?

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:06 AM

#

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:06 AM

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noble drum Aren't they adding reflection to C++23?

no that's c++26

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:07 AM

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Zig 🌩️

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:07 AM

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alpine acorn

zig is the compiler that wouldn't compile your code just because the creator thinks you wrote shitty code

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:07 AM

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reflection is also just "what if the compiler generated specifiers as strings with a macro and did this type safely"

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zig

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 10:07 AM

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shrewd fox no that's c++26

Ah, so another ten decades.

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:07 AM

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zig is worse C with worse opinions and a worse ecosystem

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:07 AM

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shrewd fox zig is the compiler that wouldn't compile your code just because the creator thi...

just let me have unused functions

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 10:08 AM

#

An unused function is a useless function

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:08 AM

#

why make a "better C" when C already exists???

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:09 AM

#

noble drum Ah, so another ten decades.

it takes ages just to upgrade the c++ version because idk

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:09 AM

#

thick osprey why make a "better C" when C already exists???

But isn't zig faster

#

Iirc

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:09 AM

#

wait why don't people just upgrade their c++ versions to always be the latest

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:09 AM

#

Idk much ab zig

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:09 AM

#

shrewd fox it takes ages just to upgrade the c++ version because idk

because the spec is 2000 pages long and you need buy-in from compiler developers and stdlib authors

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:09 AM

#

shrewd fox wait why don't people just upgrade their c++ versions to always be the latest

compiler and stdlib support

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:09 AM

#

alpine acorn But isn't zig faster

no, zig is not "faster"

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:09 AM

#

oh yeah I forgot that compilers take decades to implement a standard fully

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:10 AM

#

have you seen the C++ spec

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:10 AM

#

alpine acorn But isn't zig faster

doesn't zig use llvm

you are basically getting the same performance as something like clang (if I understood correctly)

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:10 AM

#

thick osprey have you seen the C++ spec

Thankfully no

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:10 AM

#

wtf

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:10 AM

#

alpine acorn But isn't zig faster

zig literally is implemented as an llvm frontend

#

it uses the exact same code generator as C and C++ in clang

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:11 AM

#

Man all these people

#

Saying zig is faster than cpp

#

....

#

Facepalm

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:11 AM

#

MAYBE in some edge cases but I can't really see why

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:12 AM

#

zig users on average know very little about programming

#

it seems to be more of an aesthetic lifestyle signal for a certain type of person

#

mostly obnoxious silicon valley hustle types on twitter in my experience

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:12 AM

#

bigsD

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:13 AM

#

I do like zigs optional and result types

that's like honestly one of the most useful things ever

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:13 AM

#

std::optional is right there

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:13 AM

#

zig is marketed as a better C not a better C++

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:13 AM

#

Ahh

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:14 AM

#

true

#

NULL is right there

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:15 AM

#

NULL only works if your function returns a pointer

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:15 AM

#

if youre not insane you can also implement a tagged union in a header in about 15 minutes

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:16 AM

#

shrewd fox NULL only works if your function returns a pointer

or just use an out parameter and return a bool
that works too

OK fine C is actually good

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:17 AM

#

shrewd fox NULL only works if your function returns a pointer

it will convert to any integral type via implicit conversion

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:17 AM

#

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 10:18 AM

#

shrewd fox zig is marketed as a better C not a better C++

Zig sucks.

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:18 AM

#

thick osprey it will convert to any integral type via implicit conversion

true

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:19 AM

#

noble drum Zig sucks.

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:20 AM

#

GIVE ME A LANGUAGE WITH:

the type and memory safety of C
the simplicity of C++
the generics of Golang
the compile times of Rust
the portability of an assembly language
the boilerplate of Java
the imperative flow control of SQL
the speed and package management infrastructure of Python
the ecosystem maturity and flexibility of Zig
the type system of Javascript
the security of PHP
the readability of Perl

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:20 AM

#

The stickers are cute though

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:22 AM

#

thick osprey GIVE ME A LANGUAGE WITH: - the type and memory safety of C - the simplicity of C...

imagine if that existed

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:22 AM

#

It does

#

Its called perl

#

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:23 AM

#

shrewd fox imagine if that existed

it already does. it's called COBOL

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:23 AM

#

alpine acorn Its called perl

dont talk shit on my goat

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:23 AM

#

LOL

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:23 AM

#

Perl sucks

#

im being honest

#

write only language 😭

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:24 AM

#

Php and perl

#

Are the goats mf

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:24 AM

#

3290!#(%1 jopweklf 3 @J()#3

#

sorry i was just writing a valid perl program

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:24 AM

#

I love cursed perl language

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:26 AM

#

Ada is actually a great programming language

#

i first got exposed to it in, of all places, ACPI

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:27 AM

#

Ada is idk

#

I have no opinion on it because I never used it

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:28 AM

#

well

#

ACPI isnt quite right

#

i was fucking around with ACPI which led me to coreboot's gfxinit

#

which is written in ada

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 10:29 AM

#

shrewd fox zig is marketed as a better C not a better C++

can I use zig on embedded m68k or 8085

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:29 AM

#

in coreboot????

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:29 AM

#

yeah

#

gfxinit initializes the intel integrated graphics registers

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:30 AM

#

terse bridge can I use zig on embedded m68k or 8085

you can use it with any backend that llvm supports, so yes

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 10:30 AM

#

so no

#

llvm doesn't do 8085

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:30 AM

#

terse bridge can I use zig on embedded m68k or 8085

https://microzig.tech/

Home - MicroZig

MicroZig Homepage

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:30 AM

#

does llvm not support m68k

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:30 AM

#

shrewd fox https://microzig.tech/

test your luck

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:31 AM

#

Zero is very beefy

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:31 AM

#

i wonder what the automatic launch command sequencing tool for the SLS was written in

#

probably Ada

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 10:32 AM

#

no

#

NXP doesn't have the m68k

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:33 AM

#

i probably really shouldnt talk too much about it

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:33 AM

#

NDA?

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 10:33 AM

#

probably Keil C

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:33 AM

#

shrewd fox NDA?

worse. EAR

#

and, to some degree, ITAR

#

we dont use any ancient cursed hardware

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 10:35 AM

#

8051 powers most modern usb3 hubs

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:35 AM

#

I have no idea what any of those mean

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:35 AM

#

shrewd fox I have no idea what any of those mean

EAR = export restrictions
ITAR = weapons export restrictions

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:35 AM

#

Damn

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:36 AM

#

makes sense

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:36 AM

#

EAR covers a lot

#

pretty much anything that touches space is by definition "specially designed" and falls under a blanked export control category, and theres a million more granular categories as well

#

ITAR is a bit more focused but

#

high speed high altitude gnss = ITAR

#

anything attached to a rocket that can go to space = ITAR

#

i will say

#

the thermal profiles

#

chips can literally freeze to death

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:44 AM

#

gigabit?
is this like Starlink where you give people internet from space

#

or something else

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:46 AM

#

do keep it to yourself

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 10:46 AM

#

minted

loud falcon Apr 2, 2026, 10:46 AM

#

cyberdyne systems

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:47 AM

#

i actually work for palantir

#

my new project is called the RacialProfileNazgul

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 10:47 AM

#

thick osprey do keep it to yourself

sure

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 10:47 AM

#

it gives local police forces the system from the minority report

#

this will generate so much shareholder value

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:03 AM

#

i have so much free time

#

im gonna compile ao-sdl

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:04 AM

#

Do it

#

Its easy enough

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:06 AM

#

yeah i already have experiencing dealing with c++ codebases that are agonizing to compile

#

oops forgot to clone with submodules

#

the hell is AOSDL_GENERATE_SCHEMAS

#

i aint installing a python package bro

#

go

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:30 AM

#

shrewd fox i aint installing a python package bro

pycon_us_2024 pydis_transgender pydis_dye pydis_hacktoberfest_2020 pydis_lesbian logo_ukpython pydis_pride_8bit

#

That is my sitting posture

#

Let me find that one meme

#

#

@thick osprey do you sit like this

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:31 AM

#

shrewd fox the hell is AOSDL_GENERATE_SCHEMAS

Server stuff.

#

On build time it creates the shemas to use for server inbound packet validation

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:32 AM

#

noble drum On build time it creates the shemas to use for server inbound packet validation

I just asked claude to build it for me thanks salanto for that op trick

#

🥺

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:32 AM

#

alpine acorn I just asked claude to build it for me thanks salanto for that op trick

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:32 AM

#

LMAO

#

It honestly built the ao2 client

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:33 AM

#

damn this takes ages

#

im only on 85%

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:33 AM

#

Try compiling the ao2 clients without claude

#

You will have fun

#

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:33 AM

#

Also Qt frontend progress.

#

Don't think I posted it here yet.

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:33 AM

#

OOO

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:33 AM

#

i will NEVER compile a codebase that uses qt

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:33 AM

#

LMFAO

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 11:33 AM

#

shrewd fox the hell is AOSDL_GENERATE_SCHEMAS

its optional for a reason

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:33 AM

#

shrewd fox i will NEVER compile a codebase that uses qt

Skill issue

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:34 AM

#

shrewd fox i will NEVER compile a codebase that uses qt

Why the qt hate

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:34 AM

#

Qt is a perfectly fine development framework.

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:34 AM

#

no that aint a skill issue
im preserving my sanity

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 11:34 AM

#

the script generates c++ from the openapi spec yaml to validate schemas on the rest api

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:34 AM

#

Qt creator as soon as I installed it

#

My pc runs like ass

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 11:34 AM

#

you dont need it for the client or a non-prod server

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:34 AM

#

Even when. Its not running idk why.

#

Unless qt creator has background processes

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:34 AM

#

shrewd fox no that aint a skill issue im preserving my sanity

People who says this rarely manage to quantify why Qt is bad.

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:35 AM

#

On boot

#

By default

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:35 AM

#

noble drum People who says this rarely manage to quantify why Qt is bad.

You're so qt(cute)

#

:3

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:36 AM

#

noble drum People who says this rarely manage to quantify why Qt is bad.

building qt apps is a headache and i swear its not a skill issue

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:37 AM

#

shrewd fox building qt apps is a headache and i swear its not a skill issue

It is

#

A headache.

#

I've had to build ao2..

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:37 AM

#

i understand why most desktop apps use electron

#

atleast its not miserable to compile 😭

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:37 AM

#

The ao client force integration requiring discord library is ass

#

It has to be in the same directory it sucks. It won't boot without it even if u get past the build process.

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:38 AM

#

alpine acorn The ao client force integration requiring discord library is ass

not even a macro to disable discord rpc?

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:38 AM

#

It hardcore requires it

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:38 AM

#

shrewd fox not even a macro to disable discord rpc?

I can disable it but

#

IT will still ask for it

#

And refuse to boot

#

Ao2 requires a discord library as a dependency which is stupid.

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:39 AM

#

alpine acorn IT will still ask for it

You forgot to clean the CMake config after turning it off.

#

Options are cached.

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:39 AM

#

Bruh

#

Fml

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:40 AM

#

It should not when Discord RPC is disabled.

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:40 AM

#

shrewd fox building qt apps is a headache and i swear its not a skill issue

?

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:40 AM

#

Its just time consuming

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:40 AM

#

Not really.

#

Setting up AOs stuff takes five minutes at most.

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:40 AM

#

Ao sdl

#

Has at least a cleaner build process

#

Which i like

#

But again there's no qt on it yet right

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:41 AM

#

yeah its imgui i believe

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:41 AM

#

Yeah

#

Imgui

#

Is based.

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:41 AM

#

Qt Frontend uses Qt, lol

#

It's just on a branch.

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:41 AM

#

Ahhh

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:42 AM

#

im so close

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:42 AM

#

It compiles all the same on SDL since we don't have a bass or discord link.

#

Those make it "harder"

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:42 AM

#

Im so thankful Bass.dll is gone

#

Miniaudio is a negger choice

#

Better

#

Sorry oh phone

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:43 AM

#

ive always hated bass because its nonfree software

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:43 AM

#

Mini audio is as open ans free

#

As u can get

#

And simple too

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:44 AM

#

soloud or miniaudio are both automatically better because its foss

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:44 AM

#

^^^^

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:45 AM

#

got it working

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:45 AM

#

Hell yeah

#

Good job

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:46 AM

#

how do yall test it
theres no singleplayer mode 😭

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:46 AM

#

Localhost

#

On akashi or something

#

Qt required

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:46 AM

#

i am NOT compiling akashi 😭

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:46 AM

#

LMFAO

#

There are binarys

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:46 AM

#

ok nvm

#

fine

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:46 AM

#

ON their release page

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:46 AM

#

shrewd fox how do yall test it theres no singleplayer mode 😭

Just connect to vanilla?

#

Or WTP?

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:47 AM

#

Vanilla runs upstream akashi

#

Wtp runs a forked akashi both will give near enough h same results

#

Idk any other akashi server

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:47 AM

#

i just join some random server

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:48 AM

#

Yes

#

Use a vpn i wouldn't say every server is trustworthy

#

Just to be on the safe side.

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 11:49 AM

#

alpine acorn Miniaudio is a negger choice

???

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:49 AM

#

I MEANT

#

BETTER

#

IM ON PHONE

#

ONL

#

😭

#

I FAT FINGERED IT

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:50 AM

#

akashi doesnt have mac binaries

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:50 AM

#

Oh

#

Damn

#

Linux and Windows

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:50 AM

#

every day i get absolutely fucked over by apple

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 11:50 AM

#

shrewd fox how do yall test it theres no singleplayer mode 😭

you built the server binary too? the server app code is tiny and it links to the same libs as the client so you dont need to build much extra
but tbh i just test on public servers lol

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:51 AM

#

Yeah

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:52 AM

#

thick osprey you built the server binary too? the server app code is tiny and it links to the...

not yet

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:52 AM

#

**Akashi ** - sudo apt update && sudo apt install -y git build-essential cmake qt6-base-dev qt6-tools-dev qt6-websockets-dev && git clone https://github.com/AttorneyOnline/akashi && cd akashi && mkdir -p build && cd build && cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release && cmake --build . --config Release -- -j1

GitHub

GitHub - AttorneyOnline/akashi: C++ AO2 Server

C++ AO2 Server. Contribute to AttorneyOnline/akashi development by creating an account on GitHub.

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 11:52 AM

#

shrewd fox how do yall test it theres no singleplayer mode 😭

also i am a big believer in test driven development
most of the logic code is tested on pre written test cases so it works when i go to the real world

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:53 AM

#

i hate tests

#

tests don't exist in my world

#

wait how do you exit a server in aosdl

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:54 AM

#

Disconnect button

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:54 AM

#

shrewd fox akashi doesnt have mac binaries

Sounds like I found what to do today.

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:54 AM

#

oh lmao it was hidden

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:54 AM

#

OkayChamp

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:54 AM

#

noble drum Sounds like I found what to do today.

brain2

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:55 AM

#

shrewd fox akashi doesnt have mac binaries

Mac builds were uncommon since we had nobody to develop on hardware or to test them.

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:55 AM

#

i have x86_64-darwin

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:55 AM

#

Now that at least two people own a god damn apple PC it's easier to test and develop against.

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 11:55 AM

#

Crapppe

#

Crapple

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:56 AM

#

shrewd fox i have x86_64-darwin

arm64-darwin, me think

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:56 AM

#

im not the only one getting shit on by apple??

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:56 AM

#

My MacBook to test Qt against Metal literally arrived yesterday.

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 11:58 AM

#

you'll feel my pain

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 11:58 AM

#

So far it has been nice.

#

MacOS is just a very uh... Opinionated Windows 11.

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 12:00 PM

#

macos is NOT opinionated windows 11

#

macos is just freebsd but babified for tech illiterate people

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 12:01 PM

#

noble drum My MacBook to test Qt against Metal literally arrived yesterday.

neo?

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 12:01 PM

#

gatekeeper sucks

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 12:01 PM

#

terse bridge neo?

M1 Air

#

The 8GB RAM were a deal-breaker in the end.

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 12:01 PM

#

shrewd fox building qt apps is a headache and i swear its not a skill issue

I build akashi on the vanilla vps because it was easier than to download and extract a binary

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 12:02 PM

#

wget and unzip

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 12:02 PM

#

Bought mine used for 500-ish euro.

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 12:03 PM

#

shrewd fox wget and unzip

i did that in about 4 seconds

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 12:04 PM

#

git and cmake

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 12:04 PM

#

i wonder if akashi is on nixpkgs

#

nah im too lazy to maintain a nix package

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 12:05 PM

#

Akashi is not even hard to compile.

#

It only links to Qt

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 12:06 PM

#

Akashi is ez

#

Compared to client

noble drum Apr 2, 2026, 12:06 PM

#

Core, Network, Websocket and Sql I think.

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 12:06 PM

#

Yeah

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 12:06 PM

#

alpine acorn **Akashi ** - sudo apt update && sudo apt install -y git build-essential cmake q...

This works

acoustic dune Apr 2, 2026, 2:47 PM

#

Read a string from the user.
If at any point your code is unsafe, we power down your computer.

acoustic dune Apr 2, 2026, 2:48 PM

#

shrewd fox oh damn there is a flutter app in ao-sdl

ok no more shitposting for now.
tf is a flutter app lol

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 2:49 PM

#

acoustic dune ok no more shitposting for now. tf is a flutter app lol

flutter is a ui framework by google that uses the dart programming language

#

https://flutter.dev

Flutter - Build apps for any screen

Flutter transforms the entire app development process. Build, test, and deploy beautiful mobile, web, desktop, and embedded apps from a single codebase.

acoustic dune Apr 2, 2026, 2:50 PM

#

shrewd fox flutter is a ui framework by google that uses the dart programming language

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/996556505916649561/1484441765355196507/image0.gif

#

google

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 2:51 PM

#

google aint that bad 😭

acoustic dune Apr 2, 2026, 2:51 PM

#

Ik, I just hate spyware lol

#

Whatever works for coding ig lol. Good luck.

acoustic dune Apr 2, 2026, 2:52 PM

#

acoustic dune Ik, I just hate spyware lol

(For context, Google fucking sucks.)

#

[They do make some useful apps and shit tho.]

shrewd fox Apr 2, 2026, 2:55 PM

#

the only thing i dislike about flutter is how nested it feels
like here (note that this is not ao-sdl, this is my code)

#

everything is a widget™

terse bridge Apr 2, 2026, 3:23 PM

#

i looked at the screenshot and thought wow i hate this
and then i remembered that webAOs ui.js looks very similiar

acoustic dune Apr 2, 2026, 4:10 PM

#

shrewd fox everything is a widget™

Widget 💔

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 5:48 PM

#

acoustic dune Ik, I just hate spyware lol

i dont think flutter is spyware

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 5:49 PM

#

thick osprey i dont think flutter is spyware

he was talking about google

thick osprey Apr 2, 2026, 5:49 PM

#

its just a cross platform mobile ui framework

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 5:49 PM

#

but so is like 99% of browsers

#

☠️

acoustic dune Apr 2, 2026, 5:49 PM

#

curse of ra

alpine acorn Apr 2, 2026, 5:58 PM

#

thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis

acoustic dune Apr 2, 2026, 7:50 PM

#

alpine acorn thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis...

AH, yes...
MyRenderer.materials

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 6:04 AM

#

#

I love these UML diagrams

terse bridge Apr 3, 2026, 8:06 AM

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What program did you use to draw it or did Claude do that

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I used to do those with Dia but it takes effort to make them look nice

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 11:03 AM

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terse bridge What program did you use to draw it or did Claude do that

https://mermaid.js.org/

Mermaid

Create diagrams and visualizations using text and code.

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i didnt put these in the repo, they're just my personal notes

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but if there is desire i can have claude make them prettier and add them

terse bridge Apr 3, 2026, 11:05 AM

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i asked because id have a good use for some nice looking diagrams

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 11:06 AM

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i just wrote these by hand in mermaid

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:23 PM

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<@&985183817117601812> real metrics for server hosts in a live dashboard? why not!
demo: https://staging.attorneyoffline.de/grafana/d/kagami-overview/kagami-overview?orgId=1&from=now-1h&to=now&timezone=browser&refresh=10s

#

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:24 PM

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so basically just like cloudflare or something

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:24 PM

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copper heath so basically just like cloudflare or something

a bit, i suppose, but this has a lot more visibility into server internals

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even performance metrics on stuff that might impact future scalability

#

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:24 PM

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seems a bit intrusive

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:25 PM

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all server state mutations are serialized through this lock, so it profiles it and shows it on a dashboard!

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:25 PM

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copper heath seems a bit intrusive

how exactly is "this is how the server is performing" intrusive...?

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:25 PM

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it does look cool but i think the whole room thing is unneeded

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like idk how that would help anyone

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:25 PM

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"how many players are in each area" is public info

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:26 PM

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i do like the uptime and memory stuff

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:26 PM

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some of this data is for developer purposes, identifying performance bottlenecks

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:26 PM

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and websocket stuff this is cool

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:26 PM

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you can fully customize the dashboards

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so if you just wanna know like "how many moderators are online" or set up mod audit log queries, you can just see that

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:27 PM

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thick osprey so if you just wanna know like "how many moderators are online" or set up mod au...

~~or you could just log onto the server~~

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:27 PM

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i think a queryable live dashboard ui is much better ux than ssh and pick through logs...

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:27 PM

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A lot of moderators ask for external measures to not always have to login as much

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:27 PM

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do you want fewer features?

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i can stop adding features

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:27 PM

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No. I'm more so just trying to think from AO as a whole.

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If everything is external it will stop people from joining AO as much.

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:28 PM

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this is meant for server admins to look at

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some of this info is really important for servers like vanilla that have a lot of mods and a lot of spam

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:28 PM

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It is pretty sweet. I'm not going to lie.

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But lately it feels like AO is heading towards a more gatekept closed community whether it be whitelists, or forcing discord integration and external factors. I guess my point is more so trying to say, I don't think the entire focus should just be external tools.

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But I do like the idea of having a dashboard.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:29 PM

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public servers have always been kind of a bad idea to be perfectly honest with you

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it's like if you were playing D&D but with whatever randos happened to be in the game store that day

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it's a recipe for clashes of expectations and drama

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:30 PM

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copper heath But lately it feels like AO is heading towards a more gatekept closed community ...

...again, this is a tool for like, server admins of public servers

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:30 PM

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and yeah

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users don't see this

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:31 PM

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i mean yeah thats good

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not saying it's not a useful feature

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:31 PM

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its not the "entire focus" its addressing major UX pain that makes running servers like vanilla practically impossible

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:31 PM

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im not really sure what you're saying exactly

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:31 PM

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if anything this will make AO more open

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because it makes it easier for people to run servers without dealing with bullshit

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:31 PM

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this will make AO more manageable and improve the efficacy of having an admin at all.

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:31 PM

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It also is a funny joke for server owners to brag about their uptime, so even if some stuff is public it might just be minimal info for players.

wintry apex Apr 3, 2026, 12:32 PM

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I am seeing this just now, what does SDL bring to the table for AO?

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:32 PM

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by not being restricted to only acting while having access to the server, you improve the ability to administrate.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:32 PM

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Dude are you okay

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:33 PM

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sadcomputer

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:33 PM

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I guess I'm more so trying to make a general point. If we have a public server list, shouldn't server owners expect trolls and random people? If they list on a public master server. They should know that it's open. So I guess another point I was more so thinking is like; it's a point towards AO as a whole. I've just noticed lately since more servers are becoming gatekept or private. Why are they still listing themselves on a public server list if there is a barrier of entry to get in the first place.

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Maybe that's a different topic for another day. But it kinda is weird.

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:33 PM

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i just dont see what this has to do with metrics dashboards

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:33 PM

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Why are you making a general point about server culture in the thread for a program rewrite

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:33 PM

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Valid point.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:34 PM

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If you want to complain to someone you can complain to Wiso, he loves that

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:34 PM

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I think overall the culture can improve when administrative tasks are easier to handle. Currently you invest a lot of energy to handle elements that should be easier.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:34 PM

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^

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:34 PM

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Makes sense, yeah.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:34 PM

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moderation and maintenance are annoying so server owners don't do it as much as they really should

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:34 PM

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frankly, scatterflower, a server with a UI that lets you kick, ban, etc. players without needing to open client would be ideal too.

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:35 PM

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Then that becomes discord moderation with extra steps essentially.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:35 PM

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fully featured web admin panels would make server owners cream their pants

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:35 PM

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A lot of servers avoid being public because it's just so hard currently to moderatore.
Improvements like this make people more likely to invest the steps to go public

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:35 PM

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If you aren't going to log on AO, you're just moderating from another service.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:35 PM

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it's actually a bad thing that you have to launch ao2 to ban spammers when your players ping you about it

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:36 PM

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Sometimes trolls have made it impossible to connect via client regardless, too.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:36 PM

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it makes moderation more difficult

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:36 PM

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Spam protection is an idea.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:36 PM

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we have it

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:36 PM

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Then what's the problem lol

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:36 PM

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It's not foolproof.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:36 PM

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what's your problem

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:36 PM

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Making an admin's job easier = good

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:36 PM

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why are you so against quality of life for server administration

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:37 PM

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I think we should cool this down slightly. We are edging on being accusational.

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:37 PM

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None whatsoever. I'm not against it. I'm more so talking about privacy side of things and not making the eco system worse than it already is. If servers are relying on discord to moderate then something is wrong.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:37 PM

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nothing you do on ao2 is private

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:37 PM

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It can be.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:37 PM

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it is an unencrypted protocol based on joining servers hosted by third parties

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it is not and has never been private

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:38 PM

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Anyhow, as said. The dashboard is exclusively for admins to view.

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Ergo. Private.

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It's on them if they choose to share metrics.

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:38 PM

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It helps developers also troubleshoot issues with admins by giving info on the servers internal runtime without having to do complex steps.

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:39 PM

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Yeah it's not a bad thing to have. I was just trying to make a point that we should do more for AO itself than solving core issues with external dependancys or platforms.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:39 PM

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news flash the admins can already see your IP and messages because they own the machine you're connecting to and that's not a problem because it's a roleplaying tool

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:39 PM

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copper heath Yeah it's not a bad thing to have. I was just trying to make a point that we sho...

bigsD

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:39 PM

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if you want secure channels of communication use signal or something

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:39 PM

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It's an opinion. I'm allowed to have I think.

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:39 PM

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copper heath Yeah it's not a bad thing to have. I was just trying to make a point that we sho...

To be fair, moderation tools in client are also bound to receive a major upgrade.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:39 PM

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yeah i mean i just think you're wrong

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:40 PM

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valid stone frankly, scatterflower, a server with a UI that lets you kick, ban, etc. players...

a few thoughts here:

grafana can integrate alarming with webhooks which is super nice since discord has webhooks! so you could have an admin configure like "if the server restarts ping me in discord" or "if a chat is being flooded let me know"
i'm planning on adding some automod features that would report thru metrics to grafana. this could add integrated support for wiring modcalls to discord, letting admins know if someone is spamming slurs, etc
new protocol is RESTful so its pretty straightforward to make a web ui (or, hell, even some hidden endpoints grafana accesses thru the business forms plugin) to kick, ban, whatever people
kagami itself could expose webhooks to automate moderation actions from alarms surfaced by automod

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:40 PM

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sister, solving these issues early in the rewrite's lifetime is necessary for a strong foundation. otherwise we've just made AO2.5

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:40 PM

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actually Tricky made that one

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:40 PM

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copper heath Yeah it's not a bad thing to have. I was just trying to make a point that we sho...

theres no external platform here. grafana is part of docker compose but kagami just... makes data available on http endpoints, because it has an entire http server in it, because thats how the new protocol works

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:41 PM

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thick osprey theres no external platform here. grafana is part of docker compose but kagami j...

Okay that's a good step in the right direction.

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:41 PM

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the grafana instance is literally running on the same server

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:41 PM

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grafana is software it's not a third party platform

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:41 PM

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copper heath Yeah it's not a bad thing to have. I was just trying to make a point that we sho...

Your concerns are certainly valid, but in this case I think it was blowing it a bit out of proportions.

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:42 PM

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noble drum Your concerns are certainly valid, but in this case I think it was blowing it a ...

Maybe so but when people are talking about adding more support for discord it doesn't raise confidence.

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On first glance.

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:43 PM

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eh?

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:43 PM

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Qué?

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:43 PM

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i think theres a pretty massive gulf between "submit mod alerts to an arbitrary webhook (which may be discord) vs "force everything through discord for authentication and moderation" (which, btw, akashi already does half of that)

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:43 PM

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ao players when they want privacy but also don't want to authenticate ever

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:43 PM

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Afaik the general consensus was that authentication is opt-in, but also a "have your cake and eat it to."

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:44 PM

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kid named raidensnake

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:44 PM

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bleh

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:44 PM

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So far on the moderation side we arey as far as I can tell, becoming less reliant on Discord beyond just simple notification Webhooks.

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The grafana thing is just a QoL Dashboard for curios people and debugging. Afaik even optional too.

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:45 PM

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as long as it stays that way then i think people will have no problems

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:45 PM

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you could also get an email with the same info instead of using discord for it

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:45 PM

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noble drum The grafana thing is just a QoL Dashboard for curios people and debugging. Afaik...

again, i want to emphasize how important visibility into memory usage, lock contention, and network i/o is for development

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:45 PM

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it's very easy to do that

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:45 PM

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loud falcon you could also get an email with the same info instead of using discord for it

Time to add that to Akashi.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:45 PM

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do not

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:45 PM

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i put a lot of work into getting this thing to perform well under heavy concurrent loads which is basically a necessity if we want this to be an asset server backend that servers a billion tiny files

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:45 PM

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leave poor akashi alone

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don't make her into a mail server

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:46 PM

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Get your forks out and lets get comitting mail.

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:46 PM

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loud falcon leave poor akashi alone

as that one guy named their fork for whatever reason

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"kakashit"

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/j

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:46 PM

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copper heath as long as it stays that way then i think people will have no problems

Afaik the current means remain viable, but the "best" ((imo)) experience will be on servers that go with modern ways.

terse bridge Apr 3, 2026, 12:47 PM

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kaka means poop in baby german

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:47 PM

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aov would bitch us out if they were forced to authenticate with anything

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safe to say it's opt in

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:47 PM

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aov would string us up in the town square by our innards

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:47 PM

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valid stone as that one guy named their fork for whatever reason

are u being fr?

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:47 PM

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i mean realistically they'd just be really annoying

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:48 PM

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what did they add to it

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:48 PM

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this doesnt even show you peoples ip addrs/hdids

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:48 PM

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idk i didn't check

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:48 PM

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loud falcon i mean realistically they'd just be really annoying

(which, to be fair)

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:48 PM

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probably shit judging by the name

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:48 PM

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mfw people make a fork but don't add anything

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:49 PM

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i think it was that clover person who contributed a bugfix once from their fork that I'm pretty sure they are violating gpl by not hosting somewhere. unless it's on gitlab or some such

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:49 PM

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loud falcon i mean realistically they'd just be really annoying

that's just the majority of AO2's playerbase smh

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:49 PM

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lol

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im so glad i made ao-sdl MIT

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:49 PM

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loud falcon i think it was that clover person who contributed a bugfix once from their fork ...

cloverrr?

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:49 PM

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someone could rip out half of the code and call it their own and refuse to share it, and honestly, i wouldnt give a shit

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:50 PM

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idk. i don't know any of the ao regulars anymore all the normal people left so now it's all roblox kids

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:50 PM

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too much pain with that happening in akashi/ao2 anyways

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:50 PM

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if it is them they are a weirdo

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:50 PM

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this project is my gift to AO

#

and honestly

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:50 PM

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loud falcon idk. i don't know any of the ao regulars anymore all the normal people left so n...

that's why i never advertise to master

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:50 PM

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not really an earned one

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:50 PM

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valid stone that's why i never advertise to master

same

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:50 PM

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i dont believe many people in this community other than me are technically capable of making it better than i can

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:51 PM

#

Anyway, I scrolled up. Do i actually get to write an Automod/Mod asisstent?

#

weary

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:51 PM

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i have some ideas for automod

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:51 PM

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salautomod

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:51 PM

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German wants to write a robot cop what a surprise

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:51 PM

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noble drum Anyway, I scrolled up. Do i actually get to write an Automod/Mod asisstent?

I will censor the word HDF and auto ban you for using it.

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:51 PM

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i sort of want to experiment with LLM-based automoderation but i feel like that would not be well received, and its probably too pricey anyways

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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chatgpt mod my server

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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idk what HDF is they just appeared one day and now they're the largest server around

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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loud falcon idk what HDF is they just appeared one day and now they're the largest server ar...

HDF is dead

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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does he know

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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chatgpt please roleplay as a moderator who wants to ban my opps

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not a he

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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not just raw calls into chatgpt but more like word2vec style embeddings and quantitative sentiment analysis

#

i'm not so stupid that i would just like

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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they sorry

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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pipe IC messages into chatgpt

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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not a they either

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:52 PM

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i was just using he as gender neutral

#

she

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:53 PM

#

ty

#

sorry i have to be annoying or people will just do it forever

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:53 PM

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thick osprey i have some ideas for automod

So do I. I love rulesets

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:53 PM

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Anyone who mentions Ruby gets the ban.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:53 PM

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thick osprey pipe IC messages into chatgpt

mechahitler 2 in 10 seconds flat

#

I've known like six people named that

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:54 PM

#

loud falcon mechahitler 2 in 10 seconds flat

20% cooler automod

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:54 PM

#

thick osprey 20% cooler automod

https://tenor.com/view/my-little-pony-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-rainbow-dash-equestria-games-cool-gif-17857337

Tenor

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:54 PM

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loud falcon mechahitler 2 in 10 seconds flat

this one likes kids.

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 12:54 PM

#

??????????????

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:54 PM

#

implying

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:54 PM

#

implying

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:54 PM

#

mechahitler 2.

#

mechahitler 2 would like kids.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

i famously don't like kids

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

i know

#

you don't like anyone

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

that's not true

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

she likes me

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

you like 1 person

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

i like saturday

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

see

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

i like salanto

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

saturday is awesome

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

:D

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

i like you okay samevi

#

i don't really know you that well but you seem like a good egg

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:55 PM

#

i've never heard that before

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:56 PM

#

i like plenty of people they just happen to be mostly not here LOL

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:56 PM

#

damn

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:56 PM

#

loud falcon i like salanto

Why

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:56 PM

#

salanto is one of the good ones

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:56 PM

#

Salanto is baller

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:56 PM

#

why am I being singled out???

#

mari_cookie

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:56 PM

#

you're not

#

but you are pretty good

#

im a salanto fan

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:57 PM

#

🪭

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 12:57 PM

#

even though we had stupid teenager beef like half a decade ago

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:57 PM

#

Lmaoooo

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 12:58 PM

#

beefnager

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 12:59 PM

#

loud falcon even though we had stupid teenager beef like half a decade ago

you had salanto beef??

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 12:59 PM

#

thick osprey you had salanto beef??

Don't

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 1:00 PM

#

beeflanto

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:00 PM

#

yeah when i was like 19 and i don't even remember why

#

i think it might have just been vibes honestly

#

or maybe i did something that I've since forgotten about

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 1:01 PM

#

maybe it was the stress of ao2

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:01 PM

#

Certainly a factor!

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:01 PM

#

im so glad that through sheer force of will i have excreted ao-sdl into existence

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:01 PM

#

i was a case cafe moderator around then

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:01 PM

#

im actually really excited about this project

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:01 PM

#

it is very cool

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:01 PM

#

i hope other people are too

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:02 PM

#

i am excited

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 1:02 PM

#

loud falcon i was a case cafe moderator around then

oh god poor 19 year old in1tiate

#

i am also excited

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:02 PM

#

i can't remember if i was 19 or if it was 2019

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:02 PM

#

its great stuff

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:02 PM

#

if it was the latter then i would have been 17

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 1:03 PM

#

oh god poor 17 or 19 year old in1tiate

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:03 PM

#

the whole server/caddy/grafana/prometheus stack is deployable via docker compose and all the config will exist in the repo

#

so someone with a vps can set the whole thing up with 3 commands

#

it will even set up tls certs for you automatically

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:03 PM

#

ah yeah caddy is automatic HTTPS

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:03 PM

#

ok no on checking my dates it was definitely 2019. actual baby

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:03 PM

#

copper heath ah yeah caddy is automatic HTTPS

more importantly, http/2 or /3

#

which matters a LOT due to how asset fetching works

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:04 PM

#

Not as fast as nginx but it's still user friendly

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:04 PM

#

the protocol and connection overhead is massive

#

i dont really trust nginx im not gonna lie, i never have

valid stone Apr 3, 2026, 1:04 PM

#

loud falcon ok no on checking my dates it was definitely 2019. actual baby

damn mechahitler 2 would've liked you /j

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:05 PM

#

thick osprey i dont really trust nginx im not gonna lie, i never have

Why?

#

Is it because it logs IPS on default?

#

If that is why then yeah makes sense.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:06 PM

#

monikaTired

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:06 PM

#

I was just curious, sorry.

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 1:06 PM

#

ao users when the mail carrier needs their address to deliver the mail

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:07 PM

#

I was just using IPS as a guess.

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:07 PM

#

copper heath Why?

the corporate ownership history, the very messy affair with Rambler, the company literally getting raided by russian police, the original author getting ousted, the new corporate owners being generally sketchy

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:07 PM

#

I didn't know it went that deep.

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:08 PM

#

also caddy like, justworks™

#

it has basically no config needed

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:08 PM

#

Caddy is

#

🔥

#

Literally

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:08 PM

#

it handles lets encrypt for you

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:08 PM

#

It's all built in.

#

It's chef kiss.

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:14 PM

#

the deployables are nice

#

i hope people actually use them

#

my goal is that running this on a vps is literally "run these three commands"

#

running on your moms laptop is "download the .exe and double click"

#

it supports log sinks to both loki (managed by docker compose) and cloudwatch - simultaneously

#

just put the key in the config and it works

#

i have an implementation for the stupid aws request signing so i can hook into pretty much any aws api

#

some sick part of me wants to add in autoscaling

#

graceful, automatic scalability from mom's laptop to mom's credit card

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:18 PM

#

thick osprey i have an implementation for the stupid aws request signing so i can hook into p...

wdym

#

aws integration?

#

i have aws so what could you do w/ it

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:18 PM

#

yeah, it can make requests to any aws service endpoint

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:18 PM

#

oooooooo

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:18 PM

#

right now it supports logging to cloudwatch

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:19 PM

#

thats cool

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:19 PM

#

autoscaling is possible

#

spin up new ECS workers and attach and remove them from an ALB

#

cloudfront autoconfig

#

manage the assets from S3

#

whatever you can dream of

#

web scale and mom's laptop in the same binary :o

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:20 PM

#

insane

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:21 PM

#

getting inter-shard federation would be. a pretty massive technical undertaking. but its also not impossible; i'd basically just need to add a service discovery mechanism and some RPC for state sync

#

but honestly

#

i really do not want to think about distributed computing problems right now lol

#

the threading model is complicated enough

#

the entire stack is light enough to run on a t4g.nano

#

that's $3/month

#

i am not joking when i say i put a lot of work into high-concurrency performance

#

my http server basically has "goroutines in cpp from scratch"

#

with three different abstracted socket and poll api backends implemented via link-time polymorphism

#

:)

copper heath Apr 3, 2026, 1:24 PM

#

https://tenor.com/view/magi-smile-happy-excited-drooling-gif-17781114

Tenor

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:25 PM

#

theres still a global lock on mutating server state, though

#

theres a reason i added profiling metrics to it

#

i don't trust it to scale

#

and i really dont know how im going to work through that one

#

i did some concurrency profiling earlier

#

saturday@Saturdays-MacBook-Air myapp % python3 concurrency_profiler.py -H https://canary.attorneyoffline.de -m 256 -r 500 --http1 
Target: https://canary.attorneyoffline.de
Requests per level: 500
Concurrency levels: [1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256]

Baseline: 327.3ms (HTTP/HTTP/1.1)

  c=   1  p50=   51.8ms  p95=   91.5ms  p99=  103.7ms  avg=   57.0ms  min=   37.2ms  max=  143.8ms  n=500
  c=   2  p50=   58.6ms  p95=   97.7ms  p99=  105.3ms  avg=   66.8ms  min=   35.4ms  max=  226.0ms  n=500
  c=   4  p50=   87.1ms  p95=  101.8ms  p99=  109.1ms  avg=   78.8ms  min=   39.6ms  max=  237.2ms  n=500
  c=   8  p50=   85.1ms  p95=   99.1ms  p99=  238.4ms  avg=   82.9ms  min=   35.0ms  max=  274.8ms  n=500
  c=  16  p50=   88.7ms  p95=  113.2ms  p99= 7665.2ms  avg=  174.5ms  min=   36.6ms  max= 8379.5ms  n=500
  c=  32  p50=   94.9ms  p95=  338.5ms  p99=18549.1ms  avg=  679.9ms  min=   40.7ms  max=18732.6ms  n=500
  c=  64  p50=   91.8ms  p95=13526.6ms  p99=28493.4ms  avg= 1600.1ms  min=   34.8ms  max=28519.5ms  n=487  err=13
  c= 128  p50=   93.8ms  p95=18685.3ms  p99=28761.4ms  avg= 1848.2ms  min=   37.6ms  max=28791.1ms  n=421  err=79
  c= 256  p50=  684.6ms  p95=25679.4ms  p99=25726.7ms  avg= 7691.3ms  min=  133.5ms  max=25726.7ms  n=84  err=416

--- RTT vs Concurrency (p50) ---

  c=   1 | #### 52ms
  c=   2 | ##### 59ms
  c=   4 | ####### 87ms
  c=   8 | ####### 85ms
  c=  16 | ####### 89ms
  c=  32 | ######## 95ms
  c=  64 | ######## 92ms
  c= 128 | ######## 94ms
  c= 256 | ############################################################ 685ms

#

this is with the httplib.h server

#

it just crumbles once you hit the threadpool size

#

saturday@Saturdays-MacBook-Air myapp % python3 concurrency_profiler.py -H http://localhost -m 16384
Target: http://localhost
Requests per level: 50
Concurrency levels: [1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384]

Baseline: 5.2ms (HTTP/HTTP/1.1)

  c=   1  p50=    1.5ms  p95=    1.8ms  p99=    1.9ms  avg=    1.6ms  min=    1.4ms  max=    1.9ms  n=50
  c=   2  p50=    2.1ms  p95=    2.5ms  p99=    2.5ms  avg=    2.2ms  min=    1.8ms  max=    2.5ms  n=50
  c=   4  p50=    3.7ms  p95=    4.1ms  p99=    4.5ms  avg=    3.5ms  min=    1.9ms  max=    4.5ms  n=50
  c=   8  p50=    6.6ms  p95=    7.7ms  p99=    8.1ms  avg=    6.4ms  min=    2.3ms  max=    8.1ms  n=50
  c=  16  p50=   11.9ms  p95=   16.9ms  p99=   17.4ms  avg=   11.6ms  min=    2.1ms  max=   17.4ms  n=50
  c=  32  p50=   13.8ms  p95=   21.7ms  p99=   22.7ms  avg=   15.8ms  min=    9.3ms  max=   22.7ms  n=50
  c=  64  p50=   31.4ms  p95=   33.8ms  p99=   34.7ms  avg=   29.0ms  min=   17.2ms  max=   34.7ms  n=50
  c= 128  p50=   29.3ms  p95=   31.6ms  p99=   31.9ms  avg=   26.9ms  min=   12.4ms  max=   31.9ms  n=50
  c= 256  p50=   30.7ms  p95=   34.3ms  p99=   36.4ms  avg=   29.0ms  min=   19.2ms  max=   36.4ms  n=50
  c= 512  p50=   30.2ms  p95=   32.6ms  p99=   32.7ms  avg=   28.0ms  min=   19.4ms  max=   32.7ms  n=50
  c=1024  p50=   29.3ms  p95=   32.5ms  p99=   32.9ms  avg=   27.2ms  min=   16.2ms  max=   32.9ms  n=50
  c=2048  p50=   30.4ms  p95=   33.8ms  p99=   34.0ms  avg=   28.2ms  min=   18.7ms  max=   34.0ms  n=50
  c=4096  p50=   30.5ms  p95=   33.2ms  p99=   33.6ms  avg=   28.5ms  min=   18.4ms  max=   33.6ms  n=50
  c=8192  p50=   34.7ms  p95=   36.9ms  p99=   37.3ms  avg=   32.4ms  min=   22.7ms  max=   37.3ms  n=50
  c=16384  p50=   30.4ms  p95=   33.2ms  p99=   33.8ms  avg=   28.3ms  min=   17.4ms  max=   33.8ms  n=50

--- RTT vs Concurrency (p50) ---

  c=   1 | ## 2ms
  c=   2 | ### 2ms
  c=   4 | ###### 4ms
  c=   8 | ########### 7ms
  c=  16 | #################### 12ms
  c=  32 | ####################### 14ms
  c=  64 | ###################################################### 31ms
  c= 128 | ################################################## 29ms
  c= 256 | ##################################################### 31ms
  c= 512 | #################################################### 30ms
  c=1024 | ################################################## 29ms
  c=2048 | #################################################### 30ms
  c=4096 | #################################################### 30ms
  c=8192 | ############################################################ 35ms
  c=16384 | #################################################### 30ms

#

this is with my custom http server

#

http/2 is even better because you can multiplex everything on one socket

#

but

#

the server only speaks http/1.1 and relies on caddy to demux

#

its still more efficient at the transport/networking level (esp http/3)

#

and it makes a big difference

#

the local connection path has like no overhead since its just internal copies in the kernel (and tbh linux is probably smart enough to zero-copy loopback data)

#

oooh i should run the concurrency profiler with my new metrics

#

Target: https://canary.attorneyoffline.de/
Requests per level: 50
Concurrency levels: [1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384]

Baseline: 76.7ms (HTTP/HTTP/2)

  c=   1  p50=   18.4ms  p95=   26.7ms  p99=   57.0ms  avg=   19.8ms  min=   15.2ms  max=   57.0ms  n=50
  c=   2  p50=   17.2ms  p95=   23.7ms  p99=   26.6ms  avg=   17.5ms  min=   13.8ms  max=   26.6ms  n=50
  c=   4  p50=   17.4ms  p95=   26.2ms  p99=   30.4ms  avg=   18.4ms  min=   14.5ms  max=   30.4ms  n=50
  c=   8  p50=   21.6ms  p95=   30.3ms  p99=   33.3ms  avg=   21.8ms  min=   14.0ms  max=   33.3ms  n=50
  c=  16  p50=   22.3ms  p95=   46.4ms  p99=   46.7ms  avg=   27.7ms  min=   14.1ms  max=   46.7ms  n=50
  c=  32  p50=   48.4ms  p95=   55.0ms  p99=   58.6ms  avg=   41.4ms  min=   18.4ms  max=   58.6ms  n=50
  c=  64  p50=   42.3ms  p95=   46.1ms  p99=   46.3ms  avg=   41.5ms  min=   29.1ms  max=   46.3ms  n=50
  c= 128  p50=   44.4ms  p95=   50.5ms  p99=   50.8ms  avg=   45.9ms  min=   36.2ms  max=   50.8ms  n=50
  c= 256  p50=   61.4ms  p95=   63.5ms  p99=   64.8ms  avg=   60.9ms  min=   38.8ms  max=   64.8ms  n=50
  c= 512  p50=   42.0ms  p95=   44.1ms  p99=   44.3ms  avg=   41.2ms  min=   32.9ms  max=   44.3ms  n=50
  c=1024  p50=   83.4ms  p95=   87.2ms  p99=   87.8ms  avg=   82.6ms  min=   54.8ms  max=   87.8ms  n=50
  c=2048  p50=   49.7ms  p95=   54.8ms  p99=   55.5ms  avg=   49.8ms  min=   26.0ms  max=   55.5ms  n=50
  c=4096  p50=   86.3ms  p95=  420.8ms  p99=  422.0ms  avg=  218.7ms  min=   79.3ms  max=  422.0ms  n=50
  c=8192  p50=  103.8ms  p95=  109.4ms  p99=  109.7ms  avg=  103.7ms  min=   87.0ms  max=  109.7ms  n=50
  c=16384  p50=   86.0ms  p95=   92.9ms  p99=   93.7ms  avg=   84.1ms  min=   41.5ms  max=   93.7ms  n=50

--- RTT vs Concurrency (p50) ---

  c=   1 | ########## 18ms
  c=   2 | ######### 17ms
  c=   4 | ########## 17ms
  c=   8 | ############ 22ms
  c=  16 | ############ 22ms
  c=  32 | ########################### 48ms
  c=  64 | ######################## 42ms
  c= 128 | ######################### 44ms
  c= 256 | ################################### 61ms
  c= 512 | ######################## 42ms
  c=1024 | ################################################ 83ms
  c=2048 | ############################ 50ms
  c=4096 | ################################################# 86ms
  c=8192 | ############################################################ 104ms
  c=16384 | ################################################# 86ms

#

never gonna get tired of that

acoustic dune Apr 3, 2026, 1:34 PM

#

holy shit

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 1:38 PM

#

ahhh my chudling global lock

acoustic dune Apr 3, 2026, 1:39 PM

#

thick osprey ahhh my chudling global lock

https://giphy.com/gifs/cbc-schitts-creek-L2qukNXGjccyuAYd3W

Giphy

CBC

#

I'm confused by all this tech stuff ;-;

#

Mod Dashboard seems like a fucking brilliant idea though.

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 2:19 PM

#

these dashboards are already helping me find bugs

#

fuck yes

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 3:52 PM

#

thick osprey ahhh my chudling global lock

Your what?

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 3:52 PM

#

you heard me

noble drum Apr 3, 2026, 4:03 PM

#

thick osprey you heard me

That does not explain why you have a global chudlings lock

thick osprey Apr 3, 2026, 4:03 PM

#

noble drum That does not explain why you have a global chudlings lock

dont worry im making it read-concurrent

acoustic dune Apr 3, 2026, 6:11 PM

#

what the fuck is a chudling

loud falcon Apr 3, 2026, 6:12 PM

#

3sKannaPoint

noble drum Apr 4, 2026, 12:46 AM

#

Finally added some debug info to the Qt Frontend too:

thick osprey Apr 4, 2026, 12:48 PM

#

With the completion of this last feature branch, I will be ending my work on the AO-SDL/kagami project. Thanks to everyone who showed interest. The source code remains available publicly under the MIT license.

shrewd fox Apr 4, 2026, 2:21 PM

#

why is AO-SDL now archived on github

#

ohhhhh

#

i thought AO-SDL/kagami meant kagami (which is from AO-SDL) like its a filesystem

#

well rip
i wanted to add a color logger

terse bridge Apr 4, 2026, 2:25 PM

#

thick osprey With the completion of this last feature branch, I will be ending my work on the...

did you get demoted????

#

wait what

chilly ridge Apr 4, 2026, 2:27 PM

#

They did not.

copper heath Apr 4, 2026, 2:43 PM

#

what hapepned

copper heath Apr 4, 2026, 2:43 PM

#

thick osprey With the completion of this last feature branch, I will be ending my work on the...

Again thank you for your great work. I am curious on why the sudden end of the project, not that your required to give an answer.

#

But as someone who kept up with the project and the other people, I think it would be nice to know if it was because you lost interest or external factors that you can't/ won't go into for privacy/personal/security reasons?

#

Again we are all grateful for what you have done.

shrewd fox Apr 4, 2026, 3:37 PM

#

yeah it felt pretty sudden
i thought it was going fine like 1-2 days ago

terse bridge Apr 4, 2026, 3:37 PM

#

claude ran out of tokens

copper heath Apr 4, 2026, 3:37 PM

#

terse bridge claude ran out of tokens

😭 😭 😭

#

That made me laugh.

shrewd fox Apr 4, 2026, 3:38 PM

#

terse bridge claude ran out of tokens

lmao

#

probably not

copper heath Apr 4, 2026, 3:38 PM

#

shrewd fox probably not

it'll be back next thursday trust

#

once the usage resets

shrewd fox Apr 4, 2026, 3:38 PM

#

who wants to fork

copper heath Apr 4, 2026, 3:39 PM

#

i might

#

depends if it's truly done

shrewd fox Apr 4, 2026, 3:39 PM

#

certainly not me because i have never touched the code

#

and im too lazy

shrewd fox Apr 4, 2026, 3:39 PM

#

copper heath depends if it's truly done

it works and you can connect to vanila

copper heath Apr 4, 2026, 3:40 PM

#

ya i know

#

its awesome

#

i built it myself

#

and tried it

#

super fast streaming

shrewd fox Apr 4, 2026, 3:40 PM

#

sad that AO-SDL is basically dead

i guess no more macos native ao lol

terse bridge Apr 4, 2026, 3:41 PM

#

we have native macos ao

#

it's just really troublesome to install and no one cares

#

the iphone version is the more important one

chilly ridge Apr 4, 2026, 3:48 PM

#

There is no need to speculate, if they want to share something, they will.

thick osprey Apr 4, 2026, 7:29 PM

#

I realize it sucks to disappear and offer no explanation. I don't want to blame anyone or throw anyone under the bus, this decision is the confluence of a few things:

Every attempt to make "new AO2" has failed because many of the people who are willing to contribute to development, frankly, do not get along well. I understand this, it is what it is, but inserting myself into these dynamics just stresses me out and makes me feel awful. I don't like to pick sides or upset people and I don't want to cause anyone harm or distress. I want to solve purely technical problems but I don't feel like I am able to focus on this
AO's requirements conflict with what I want to design. The master server model has been completely abandoned elsewhere for a reason; it doesn't scale well and it creates fiefdoms within the community that fragment it and bring in a whole host of dynamics that (see reason #1) I want no part in.
AO-SDL is very complex cross-platform software. I don't have the time or energy or hardware to test and chase down bugs in all 5(!) platforms it supports by myself and remain sane.
Another problematic outcome of the complexity is that, somewhat selfishly, I only trust myself to make the design decisions that will shape the project to completion. While this can be quite rewarding, it is stressful, and I feel like I am implicitly signing myself up to run a project indefinitely I probably won't have the bandwidth for forever.
Related to 3 and 4, I don't think I can design this software in a way that is going to make everyone happy. The features people want are often incoherent to me and I don't think I have the skills or patience to make design decisions around them that will satisfy what people want

#

I wrote an HTTP application server that uses copy-on-write semantics and immutable trie data structures with lock-free updates and spent hours optimizing the socket poll and worker pool architecture so that the server can seamlessly support tens of thousands of simultaneous connections. I am extremely proud of this, and in all honesty, it makes me ache a bit to know that it's going to be used to host at most maybe 30 users at a time. I don't know how to quite effectively communicate the feeling, but it kind of sucks. Maybe I just shouldn't have overengineered it. On the other hand, solving that problem was immensely rewarding in its own right.
And, I guess, that's the tension. The technical work is fun and I can motivate myself to do crazy things on that side, but then I take a step back and just feel..... disappointed, frustrated.

chilly ridge Apr 4, 2026, 7:44 PM

#

Thank you for your contributions regardless of what ends up coming of it.

#

Your choice is understandable and is to be respected, the heads up on is vastly appreciated.

#

I can't imagine what it was like for you in any reasonable capacity in terms of the technical side, but every step towards the development of the program is a step that counts.

#

Thanks to those who have tried to build or contribuite via beta-testing and feedback as well. It is what it is.

chilly ridge Apr 7, 2026, 8:41 AM

#

It continues to be what it is.

loud falcon Apr 7, 2026, 8:46 AM

#

c'est la vie pour toujours

thick osprey Apr 7, 2026, 11:03 AM

#

taps mic is this thing on?

#

everything i said above is still 100% true

#

but the fact remains, i cannot help myself

#

i am a sick person

shrewd fox Apr 7, 2026, 4:57 PM

#

why is this open again?

#

wait what i guess ao-sdl isn't dead after all

#

fuck YES

#

https://tenor.com/view/kazuichi-danganronpa-kazuichi-souda-gif-6133064040410244878

Tenor

#

https://tenor.com/view/let's-go-gif-9365045097663929950

Tenor

shrewd fox Apr 7, 2026, 5:03 PM

#

thick osprey but the fact remains, i cannot help myself

to be honest i can understand that feeling
you WANT to stop but you just can't

#

i've experienced it alot with my other smaller projects

thick osprey Apr 8, 2026, 1:14 AM

#

kagami is now resistant to multiple types of DDoS/DoS/spam attacks out of the box, on a tiny server (1 cpu 512mb ram), without the need for cloudflare at all

loud falcon Apr 8, 2026, 1:56 AM

#

lfg

valid stone Apr 9, 2026, 9:24 AM

#

as much as i don't want to be the guy that pesters the dev about dumb crap, i must admit i'm getting pretty curious what the current scope for AO-SDL is, and whether or not features originally planned have been cut or set off to the side.

noble drum Apr 9, 2026, 11:26 AM

#

valid stone as much as i don't want to be the guy that pesters the dev about dumb crap, i mu...

My scope has an always will be a working Qt frontend that allows the customisation denied to AO users since the beginning of time.

#

(and evidence. I like better evidence.)

thick osprey Apr 9, 2026, 2:45 PM

#

deploy an AO server to aws with one link, no ssh or complexity needed
https://github.com/AttorneyOnline/AO-SDL/blob/master/deploy/README.md
<@&985183817117601812>

GitHub

AO-SDL/deploy/README.md at master · AttorneyOnline/AO-SDL

AO reimplemented. Contribute to AttorneyOnline/AO-SDL development by creating an account on GitHub.

thick osprey Apr 9, 2026, 2:46 PM

#

valid stone as much as i don't want to be the guy that pesters the dev about dumb crap, i mu...

new protocol still in the works but the server has needed a lot of work to get things off the ground

#

and new protocol means new assets system, content authoring tooling, and a publication framework

loud falcon Apr 9, 2026, 2:55 PM

#

#

mochi

#

mochi is in scope

shrewd fox Apr 9, 2026, 2:56 PM

#

thick osprey deploy an AO server to aws with one link, no ssh or complexity needed https://gi...

impressive work
(though i hate aws and i think cloud is rotting our brains anyways)

thick osprey Apr 9, 2026, 4:12 PM

#

shrewd fox impressive work (though i hate aws and i think cloud is rotting our brains anywa...

well, theres a reason its one binary and not 30 microservices written in javascript
the main advantage here is the cloud infrastructure as code and automated deployment stuff

#

container registry updates and SSM a lot less flaky and a lot more secure than ad hoc scripts
and a cloudformation template is a lot easier for someone to use than some deploy script
but, if anyone prefers, the deploy script also exists. its also possible to just build the binary and drop it on a bare box. nothing here requires using a cloud platform but the integration exists because it makes deployment orders of magnitude easier

#

to be fair kagami does log to cloudwatch…
but it can also log to loki. or a bare file

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all of the cloud integration is opt-in only

noble drum Apr 9, 2026, 4:35 PM

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Your corporate overlords will be pleased.

alpine acorn Apr 9, 2026, 4:45 PM

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noble drum Your corporate overlords will be pleased.

I just wanted to say thank you salanto.

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You don't appreciate what you have until you lose it.

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So I thought I would just say that.

shrewd fox Apr 9, 2026, 5:02 PM

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jeff bezos will surely be happy about this

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also thank god its one binary

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i hate microservices
too hard to deploy

thick osprey Apr 9, 2026, 5:34 PM

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shrewd fox also thank god its one binary

the idea is its one binary that scales from "mom's laptop" to "mom's credit card" seamlessly

shrewd fox Apr 9, 2026, 5:35 PM

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true

thick osprey Apr 9, 2026, 5:37 PM

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ok i lied

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technically its two binaries

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it does setcap on a helper binary to set up the kernel ip bans with nftables

valid stone Apr 11, 2026, 11:02 AM

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https://github.com/AttorneyOnline/AO-SDL/pull/75#issuecomment-4229309792

GitHub

Add protocol v2 proposal document by mposs00 · Pull Request #75 ·...

Summary

Adds doc/protocol-v2-proposal.md — a design document proposing a replacement for the AO2 client-server protocol, server architecture, and asset system
Covers 9 design pillars: versioned JS...

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feedback left here

noble drum Apr 11, 2026, 11:27 AM

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I swear Qt is playing pogo with me.

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Compiles on MacOS
Does not compile on Windows
Compiles on Windows
Does not on MacOS

alpine acorn Apr 11, 2026, 11:31 AM

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noble drum I swear Qt is playing pogo with me.

https://tenor.com/view/mewo-shy-guy-bihi-echill-gif-24954151

Tenor

noble drum Apr 11, 2026, 4:34 PM

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Popout panels kinda work properly now, still need to see if I can fix their homing logic.

valid stone Apr 11, 2026, 4:48 PM

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pogU

noble drum Apr 11, 2026, 5:05 PM

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valid stone <:pogU:642545302724935681>

?

valid stone Apr 11, 2026, 5:11 PM

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noble drum ?

excited for popout panels

noble drum Apr 11, 2026, 5:11 PM

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valid stone excited for popout panels

Yipee.

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I would love to show it with a working render.

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But OpenGL is busted as balls in Qt when using the SceneGraph.

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So Windows gotta wait for Vulkan.

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(it works fine on mac, lol.

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Leaving me with this mess of a development pipeline.

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(Yes, that's me working on Windows and Mac at the same time.)

valid stone Apr 11, 2026, 5:17 PM

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gg

thick osprey Apr 12, 2026, 6:59 AM

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noble drum

i feel like rdp to windows feels nicer than vnc to macos. vnc is so slow

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vnc is basically just streaming the entire desktop as a video

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where rdp is doing semantic info + bitmaps as a fallback of sub-regions

noble drum Apr 12, 2026, 8:17 AM

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thick osprey i feel like rdp to windows feels nicer than vnc to macos. vnc is so slow

VNC is terrible.

alpine acorn Apr 12, 2026, 11:04 AM

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noble drum VNC is terrible.

☠️

noble drum Apr 12, 2026, 2:22 PM

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@valid stone @alpine acorn

alpine acorn Apr 12, 2026, 2:22 PM

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THIS IS AWESOME

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the little menu

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with the rooms

noble drum Apr 12, 2026, 2:23 PM

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. . . I was showing off that the dock panels finally behave correctly.

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I was gonna split music and areas.

alpine acorn Apr 12, 2026, 2:23 PM

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this is greatt

noble drum Apr 12, 2026, 2:23 PM

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(Ignoring the warnings.)

chilly ridge Apr 12, 2026, 2:24 PM

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Looks nice.

#AO-SDL updates