i'll solo it; it's not hard to maintain a version of main to support another version
#We're making a wrapper over the Discord API using Java!!
light loom
oak flare
not worth it
steep spruce
in rare senarios the only time 8 and 11 will be used in discord development is when linking like 1.8 servers or 1.12.2 servers that aren't even paper
oak flare
you are the reason why people still use old java versions
because you still support
instead of enforcing latest
light loom
we're not even using java 17+ features?
not that i've seen
it's compiled and developed in 21 right now but we're not using any weird syntax
light loom
17+
oak flare
what about virtual threads and stuff like that? wont we use that?
light loom
nope, no use for them
steep spruce
what about virtual threads and stuff like that? wont we use that?
exactly we will use that
oak flare
nope, no use for them
why not?
light loom
java http and vert.x use their own threads, we just maintain 1 platform thread for event dispatching
oak flare
java http and vert.x use their own threads, we just maintain 1 platform thread f...
arent they using virtual threads?
light loom
who's they?
steep spruce
arent they using virtual threads?
pretty sure no
well
they make their own virtual theeads
iirc
plain ledge
java http and vert.x use their own threads, we just maintain 1 platform thread f...
We talked about switching away from vert.x
light loom
We talked about switching away from vert.x
it's only used for the websocket
plain ledge
Exactly
oak flare
anyways all that is not a reason to have some branch with outdated version
plain ledge
It’s kinda bloated just for a ws
light loom
yeah but whatever library we switch to will handle mutli threading within itself
anything on maven supports LTS
plain ledge
Isn’t LTS 17?
light loom
yes
plain ledge
So why should we support below LTS
light loom
we shouldn';t - i thought 11 was LTS by mistake
oak flare
yeah but whatever library we switch to will handle mutli threading within itself
yeah but if they change the internals to use virtual threads then we would benefit from that on higher versions no?
oak flare
we shouldn';t - i thought 11 was LTS by mistake
it is?
light loom
it's not anymore
light loom
we're developing with latest
but there's no java 21 features used rn
just by chance, it compiles in java 17
and we're almost done so there's no need to enforce 21 if we're not using 21 internally anyway
plain ledge
Are you debating supporting 8 still?
steep spruce
So why should we support below LTS
lts is 21
light loom
Are you debating supporting 8 still?
no
plain ledge
We don’t use any 21 specific stuff do we
light loom
We don’t use any 21 specific stuff do we
nope, we didn't have a need for it
oak flare
and we're almost done so there's no need to enforce 21 if we're not using 21 int...
you sure?
steep spruce
We don’t use any 21 specific stuff do we
we can use
string templates
virtual threads
pattern matching
oak flare
string templates are preview though
steep spruce
string templates are preview though
they work tho
oak flare
but yeah record patterns and pattern matching etc
light loom
oak flare
plain ledge
<https://openjdk.org/jeps/440>
Oh that looks cool
oak flare
the thing is, we have no usecase right now for java 21 features
record patterns can be pretty useful for this project though
light loom
take a look at the codebase and lemmie know if you find any potential areas to use it
our records are just data containers for the discord responses
we don't do any logic on them
i don't care if you use java 21 features if there's a real need for it - there's no point in doing it if it's gonna be for a single method
because we'd break 17 support for 5-lines of code, that isn't worth it
oak flare
there is also no point in supporting older versions instead of enforcing latest version
light loom
there is because people use java 17
oak flare
people that use java 17 use java 21 lmao
biggest problem are people stuck on java 8, but anyone that knows of java 17 also knows of java 21 and how to upgrade if not already using it
light loom
i need another expert to chime into this conversation
on whether it's a bad idea to support java 17 and just to enforce java 21 (even though we're not even using java 21 features 
)
maybe @sharp ferry
oak flare
(even though we're not even using java 21 features
I wouldnt be surprised if any library like vert.x etc use virtual threads internally which got several benefits
light loom
you should never use virtual threads for threads that are long running
that's not what they exist for
oak flare
not everything needs long running threads though
light loom
but we have no requirement or need to multi thread
should we multi thread json parsing? for what benefit?
light loom
it makes no sense to multi thread an application that does not benefit from mutli threading
virtual threads isn't an argument beause the multi threading we are doing is handled by the libraries we are using, our application only needs 1 thread
light loom
but using virtual threads will not improve performance
they're just lighter to spawn but we're not spawning any, neither are our dependencies
oak flare
ik
steep spruce
because we'd break 17 support for 5-lines of code, that isn't worth it
uhm, it's not just that you know
steep spruce
JVM and byte code changes from version to version
light loom
oh wow the website i looked at said it wasn't
lmao
but oracle says it is
😦
my google sucks 😄
light loom
at the least, our code compiles in java 17 at the current moment, so there's no advantage for anybody for us to compile in 21 and release that
sharp ferry
As a rule of thumbs, regular versions last until the next version, and LTS last until next LTS
so since 21 is a LTS
Supported versions are 21 and 22
light loom
it's 4 release versions
sharp ferry
it's 4 release versions
3 since 17
sharp ferry
Just use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history
see this
light loom
yeah looking now
steep spruce
it's 4 release versions
maybe it won't matter but also there is something called byte code changes and JVM changes
light loom
maybe it won't matter but also there is something called byte code changes and J...
no you don't understand
an end user can compile in any version that is java 17+
if they want to use 21 they can
but they can't use 17 if we compile in 21
but we don't use 21 anyway just out of pure luck - so why compile in 21 anyway ?
sharp ferry
So, old project won't probably pick your libs anyway, only new projects would
sharp ferry
So, old project won't probably pick your libs anyway, only new projects would
and since new projects should only use latest or latest TLS...
sharp ferry
but we don't use 21 anyway just out of pure luck - so why compile in 21 anyway ?
if you don't use any feature of 21, then yes, you can use an older version
oak flare
I am saying enforce latest or latest lts, idc if people are stuck on java 17 ngl
light loom
if you don't use any feature of 21, then yes, you can use an older version
this is what i'm trying to say
if we don't use 21 there's no need to force an upgrade for endusers
once we use 21 we can then say "hey peeps, you need java 21 because we use xyz features"
such as virtual threads
oak flare
I know but whats against enforcing it, then people arent stuck on java 17 and you help everyone
light loom
it's just giving freedom of choice to the best of our ability
because how can we be competitive? if JDA supports java 11 for example and your system is using java 11, then you'll use JDA
oak flare
imagine using java 11
light loom
because you just wanna create a discord bot and you'll use whatever framework that runs on your system
light loom
yeah at the least we support 17 😄
plain ledge
oak flare
I am just against people using old versions if you can literally use latest/latest LTS
light loom
yeah i get that - i would always say use java 21 but this situation is different, we want to be usable by as many people as possible out of the box
light loom
but if we have a real need for 21 (for example we actually use virtual threads) then so be it, we have a java 21 dependency
steep spruce
1.20?
from 1.17.1 it's recommended to use 21
on paper docs
on 1.20.5 21 is required
plain ledge
I thought paper recommended 17?
steep spruce
I thought paper recommended 17?
no that's the required
plain ledge
Ah strange
steep spruce
for 1.17.1+ required is 17
for 1.20.5 it's 21
sharp ferry
Or most Minecraft servers run 17
Minecraft is different
Each version of minecraft require a different version of java
and the reason people use some version over others is either because of mods, or because of performences
plain ledge
Whenever I dev’d for mc sfuff I mostly did 8 and 17
steep spruce
yeah i get that - i would always say use java 21 but this situation is different...
use 17+ or you get the belt
light loom
use 17+ or you get the belt
i can agree to that at the least lol
but i gotta admit the framework we've built is kinda sexy 
steep spruce
im gonna study and in my free time I'll continue writing my Minecraft inventories library
unrelated here but I'm upgrading it to 3.0.0 hehe
steep spruce
@light loom
ever thought about this just being called GuildMetadata?
uhh I shat my pants
light loom
<@821143476455342120>
ever thought about this just being called GuildMetadata?
possibly
light loom
uhh I shat my pants
yup that's what they give us lol
steep spruce
yup that's what they give us lol
is there a command API?
light loom
yes
light loom
there technically is just not tested and it's too "raw" for end users
that's why we have a spike! 🙂
light loom
feel free to pick up the spike ticket @steep spruce 
or drop your suggestions, would be good to do it on github though so it's all documented
steep spruce
or drop your suggestions, would be good to do it on github though so it's all do...
is there possibly a way you could literally just scan the commands via annotations, check the method args and then just cache the command and execute when needed
JDA for example has String[] for command args but it's bad and needs external libraries to make it somewhat good
(I'll add this to GH when I have time dw)
light loom
yeah I was thinking we can mark a method with a SlashCommand object return type for example
that it uses that
steep spruce
yeah! exactly
light loom
e.g. java @SlashCommand public SlashCommand ping() { return new SlashCommand("ping").addOption(String, "something"); }
steep spruce
e.g. ```java
@SlashCommand
public SlashCommand ping() {
return new SlashComman...
hm.. I was thinking more like:
@SlashCommand(name = "ping", desc = "Pings user or yourself!", ...)
public class PingCommand {
@DefaultExecution
public void ping(Member user, @Optional(def = "self") Member target) {
// ...
}
@SlashSubcommand(name = "something", ...)
public void pingSomething(Member member, ...) {
// ...
}
}
just add the check for it here
if you want.. idk how to link it to discord but maybe if it hasn't been implemented I can create the annotation parser for it
I'd basically make the annotation parser in here, put commands in cache
you guys can just link those slash commands to discord
I've done it for minecraft
but that code was low-key trash lol I've improved
and if needed, I could literally make the registration parallelized and I don't think discord's rate limit would complain (we might need to fact check that tho lol)
since yk, it's a lot of reflection xd
light loom
sure, you can make a parser just don't do the reflection
light loom
If you want I can give you a walk through the codebase tomorrow? @steep spruce
It might be worth getting my PR merged in first too, since I completely made :annotations an independent module i.e. if a user doesn't add it to their build then they can't use annotation processing but instead have to manually register the listeners
plain ledge
hm.. I was thinking more like:
```java
@SlashCommand(name = "ping", desc = "Ping...
like acf?
steep spruce
https://github.com/aikar/commands
yeah I made one for Minecraft
steep spruce
If you want I can give you a walk through the codebase tomorrow? <@8524856777776...
i think it should be easy enough to understand everything
after looking at your code it's like 87% requests and records xd
steep spruce
sure, you can make a parser just don't do the reflection
also like.. the parser kinda does require reflection
light loom
i mean don't implement it yourself or do that part of the work just yet :p
you might find it easier to add/reference the existing stuff
my PR has only 1 thing left to do which is finish this damn GuildRequest class
but gosh it's do demotivating after have done all the rest and now being on the final but that is just a big one
ill no-life today and just get it done
because this final PR unblocks all the testing, additional features etc
let me do it now, fuck it - eta 2 hours
steep spruce
i mean don't implement it yourself or do that part of the work just yet :p
you could also just make the args String[] if you want extensibility
Orr you can make a really good built in library like my idea
light loom
wym?
steep spruce
wym?
for example
commands can either be something like this:
public class PingCommand implements GuildCommand {
@Override
public void execute(Member member, String[] args) { ... }
}
which enables extensibility to create your own command libraries
or better, since we are imagining an already fast implementation and really good in general:
@SlashCommand(...)
public class PingCommand {
@SlashCommandExecution
public void onPingCommand(Member member, ...) { ... }
}
which allows for easy commands, and also this approach can greatly reduce the amount of reflection (unless the API for internals is really good)
since yk, you can already do it in the loop that registers listeners
instead of redoing that reflection
light loom
we can do that second approach easily
and have the power of the first version
so adding a SlashCommand listener is no effort there (neither is validation/sending events to it)
we can already dynamically invoke the method and pass the correct arguments to it since
the only thing we really need to nail is making it nice, pretty and easy for the end user
the method name can be anything the end user wants
e.g. java @SlashCommand public T helloWorldHandler(...) { ... }
the beauty we've added is
all parameters are optional
if you don't need the Member parameter, no need to add it
and realistically, we don't need the class level annotation either, just annotate any method you want with @SlashCommand and it's good to go
so u could do something like
plain ledge
for example
commands can either be something like this:
```java
public class Pin...
String[] don’t make sense tho since it’s slash commands
With named args and types
steep spruce
and realistically, we don't need the class level annotation either, just annotat...
do you have an efficient approach? removing the need may actually be good, and might even encourage kotlin development like:
@SlashCommand(...)
fun onPingCommand() {
// ...
}
instead of:
@SlashCommand(...)
class PingCommand {
@SlashCommand
fun onPingCommand() {
// ...
}
}
yeh that's true
plain ledge
do you have an efficient approach? removing the need may actually be good, and m...
Could even add a kotlin module
With support for suspend
steep spruce
With support for suspend
mhm
plain ledge
There is a way to use kotlin reflections from java too
steep spruce
There is a way to use kotlin reflections from java too
hm?
steep spruce
do you have an efficient approach? removing the need may actually be good, and m...
I mean, the second approach here can also lead to noticably faster startups in simpler algorithms (if something else can do it really fast then no objections needed), or the more classes the more time it takes to start, even if they aren't even commands
plain ledge
Nvm, I thought there was a way but idk
Yeah, I like the idea of that tree-style annotations
steep spruce
my finals start at may 8, and on may 14 I have loads and loads of free time
light loom
i don't wanna introduce kotlin
reason being, it's adding another tech stack, especially one i'm not familiar with and once we start adding multiple languages, it gets harder to maintain because not everyone will understand it
orchid portal
wazei must introduce kotlin
light loom
do you have an efficient approach? removing the need may actually be good, and m...
yeah the approach we have at the moment is pretty good, locally, i've been spinning stuff up in like 2 seconds tops
i don't see any performance issues with adding more annotations
@SlashCommand(...)
fun onPingCommand() {
// ...
}
so this example would be correct
reflection isn't pretty (often confusing to understand) but gosh the end result is insanely sexy
steep spruce
reflection isn't pretty (often confusing to understand) but gosh the end result ...
also yk, if you use MethodHandles instead of Method#invoke you can optimize it using public lookups
plain ledge
i don't wanna introduce kotlin <:pepe_sad:979524296462467102>
As a separate module ofc
A couple of us know kotlin here
I’ve done kotlin for 900 (ish) hours
Taz knows kotlin too
steep spruce
I've seen it execute nearly as fast as direct invocation
steep spruce
reason being, it's adding another tech stack, especially one i'm not familiar wi...
it's only kotlin lol
and it would be an extension not a rewrite
public lookups aka
it can use optimized lookups for a public method
with MethodHandles you can also use an optimized method that doesn't check for argument types (is good when you already have the arguments parsed and you know the types, from personal experience tho do not mix with an Object[], instead use a Generic[] but Generic can be anything extending an Object, so same thing but works with a parsed array)
the setup should look like this:
MethodHandles.publicLookup().unreflect(someMethod).invokeExact(Object, ...);
orchid portal
Taz knows kotlin too
yes i've cried 4 times doing kotlin
that should be enough experience
light loom
public lookups aka
it can use optimized lookups for a public method
with Method...
happy for you to explore it - all for doing things more efficently
steep spruce
for example
commands can either be something like this:
```java
public class Pin...
I made a Minecraft command library for Minecraft that uses annotations basically the same way as here but with different annotation names
so I have experience in this kinda, more like experience in parsing String[]
but this should be fairly simple and the same
light loom
we most likely don't need to do a String[] - we can easily derrive that from the data we receive and the parameters set
steep spruce
we most likely don't need to do a `String[]` - we can easily derrive that from t...
yep
light loom
for example on the event listeners an optional parameter is Guild and we dynamically construct that using some of the data we receive from the request + cached data
just make sure within :core there is a non-annotation version of whatever you do
so for the event listeners we have registerEventListener or something available in the Discord class
which is for any manual stuff when people opt out of annotations
light loom
@orchid portal #86 just GuildRequest needs finishing in :api
basically, only 15 methods left
those methods need builders as parameters
you can see the other ones as examples, it's all commented with TODO so you can see it easy
ty
method name is pretty much the same name as the discord request e.g.
// TODO:
public AsyncResponse<Guild> modifyGuild() {
return responseParser.callAndParse(Guild.class, null);
}
links to
ModifyGuildRequest
for the name of the builder just use the same name but instead of Request call it Builder
required params in the constructor, optionals all get a builder method
orchid portal
@light loom what to do with optional?
ohh make a builder
ugly
too draining
also y are these not in separate packages
plain ledge
also y are these not in separate packages
We discussed
Putting them in com.javadiscord.api.builders
Since they are user facing
plain ledge
dm discussions arent helpful for us
Yeah we were discussing something else and it turned into that
orchid portal
i think htg is too busy someone else should pick up docs
light loom
i think htg is too busy someone else should pick up docs
i think he's been too busy
we should start documenting as we write unit tests as that will give the tester an idea of what's going on and can then provide valuable docs
plain ledge
we should start documenting as we write unit tests as that will give the tester ...
Wasn’t the docs thst he was assigned to not the javadoc but the like other docs
light loom
he was doing java docs
plain ledge
Also @sand peak what’s going on with the unit test PR, are you writing more tests or is that ready for review?
light loom
he's working on it in vc 😄
plain ledge
he was doing java docs
Oh, got that confused with https://github.com/javadiscord/java-discord-api/issues/47
Lmao
spiral dawn
Oh my bad I forgot about it was really busy irl
light loom
no worries!
spiral dawn
I will be travelling this week I have a funeral to attend.
Unless you can wait a week
light loom
oh sorry to hear
spiral dawn
Upto you
light loom
i needed it yesterday
just kidding :p - sorry take as long as you need, hope everything is okay
@orchid portal just rebased on main - there's the new webhook stuff to do as well :S
ExecuteSlackCompatibleWebhookRequest , ExecuteGithubCompatibleWebhookRequest these look interesting af @restive void 😮
didn't realize it was supported out of the box by discord
plain ledge
didn't realize it was supported out of the box by discord
Ye ye
orchid portal
didn't realize it was supported out of the box by discord
that is just the #github-activity-log
dev is going to write tutorials?
or just the setup for docs website?
steep spruce
just make sure within `:core` there is a non-annotation version of whatever you ...
alright bet
so I get to do the reflection then
btw the args can't be parsed into something like Member member, String item, Integer number but instead it's gonna be like T extends User memberOrUserDependingOnInterfaceImplementation, Arguments args
but I can make it in a way where it is 100% independent of a class, just a method/function if you want
plain ledge
or just the setup for docs website?
Idk who is who on discord
light loom
or just the setup for docs website?
just setup 🙂
light loom
btw the args can't be parsed into something like `Member member, String item, In...
why can't they be?
steep spruce
why can't they be?
I mean, I can tell you more info and study this
light loom
they for sure can be 🙂
steep spruce
if I find a way to allow this then I'll tell you
but basically with annotations it's really easy to just parse into args
light loom
yeah
steep spruce
yeah
but also
if we can do that, it basically defeats 80% of purpose of annotations
20% to just provide the name, description, etc etc
and also there should be an annotation for each arg if you want custom and overriden data for that arg
public void onPingCommand(Member member, @SlashOption(name = "target", desc = "Who should we ping?", ...) User pinged, ...) { ... }
this is kinda a rabbit hole
light loom
so that even a usecase to support?
steep spruce
so that even a usecase to support?
yes
steep spruce
you need to be able to do this somehow someway
light loom
but not dynamically find a random user
steep spruce
@SlashOption is kinda the best way for it
light loom
I would expect the method to be like:
@SlashCommand
public void changeNick(User user, Optional<String> nick) {
nick.ifPresent(s -> user.nick(s));`
}```in the real code you would give a reference to the Guild class
public void changeNick(User user, Optional<String> nick, Guild guild) {
then guild.member().update(user) or something
steep spruce
but not dynamically find a random user
that's the neat part, the command invoker just provides the mention
wdym dynamically find a user
like go through all users and find that user or smt?
light loom
yeah we don't want that
restive void
`ExecuteSlackCompatibleWebhookRequest` , `ExecuteGithubCompatibleWebhookRequest`...
Ya it is interesting
steep spruce
yeah we don't want that
what? no
no way lol
the user would already provide a mention like
/nick @steep spruce Hello World
I'm assuming we are parsing an array of strings
Discord converts a mention like @steep spruce to @steep spruce
we can just get the ID easily and convert it to a discord user/member
I don't even know anything about discord API except for using a discord wrapper and I can semi-imagine this
light loom
ah you mean mentioned users?
light loom
ah okay, if that's the case then sure, but we'd want it a a List<User> mentionedUsers kinda thing
i had no idea what you were talking about
but it seemed wrong without that context lol
steep spruce
but it seemed wrong without that context lol
my man really thought I was gonna do a heavy O(n) operation to find 1 user lol
steep spruce
ah okay, if that's the case then sure, but we'd want it a a `List<User> mentione...
wdym
users would already be able provide that
but most people would want just 1 user for most cases
steep spruce
ah okay, if that's the case then sure, but we'd want it a a `List<User> mentione...
we can also just add custom argument providers
light loom
be careful you don't fall into the trap of having too many parameters and overcomplicated the implementation
reason being, this is for end users, it needs to be as easy as possible
and with the annotation specifically, we're assuming the user will either
- Figure it out on their own
- Read the doc
- Use the hard coded variant
steep spruce
be careful you don't fall into the trap of having too many parameters and overco...
have you ever seen my code? XD
it is very straight forward
light loom
public void onPingCommand(Member member, @SlashOption(name = "target", desc = "Who should we ping?", ...) User pinged, ...) { ... }
this?
steep spruce
that was an idea
light loom
it's similar to Spring/Jackson and whatever else uses annotation method parameters sure
I'm okay with this but there's a few things you'll lose too, there's no compile-time validation for example (we already sacrificed that with dynamic method invoking)
steep spruce
it's similar to Spring/Jackson and whatever else uses annotation method paramete...
I mean, for slash options, adding autocompletions, making it optional, adding metadata, etc
it's the best and simplest way and is optional so you don't have to add it, but will this ruin consistency and should it be mandatory?
light loom
mm okay, it'll make more sense once the implementation starts
if I can see what you end up making then i should be able to get a better idea
steep spruce
I'm okay with this but there's a few things you'll lose too, there's no compile-...
everything happens at startup so it wouldn't take a lot more time
light loom
the end user might not do it all at startup for example
somebody makes a bot that allows people to create their own slash commands
a user might upload the code and inject it like we are during runtime
steep spruce
I'm okay with this but there's a few things you'll lose too, there's no compile-...
also, what validation for what
light loom
public void onPingCommand(Member member, @SlashOption(name = "target", desc = "Who should we ping?", ...) User pinged, ...) { ... }
so see this
@SlashOption(name = "target", desc = "Who should we ping?", ...) User pinged
could be a useless parameter if the bootstrapping of the command didn't even specify this
i.e. the annotation is inconsistent with the @SlashCommand method parameter
so when we invoke it - we're actually invoking it against null and should be throwing an exception "unexpected parameter <name>"
and at runtime, you're running this in some headless linux server and might not even see the logs
the command will just not be working
for those who have no top-level exception handling, will crash their bots
that is more so in the case of injecting during runtime after we've done our initial bootstrapping
though in CI/CD, somebody commits the wrong code, stuff compiles, it gets deployed but their bot remained offline because we threw at runtime not compile time
that's something we have lost already with the :annotations module
steep spruce
that's something we have lost already with the `:annotations` module
the only way that could be solved is with an annotation processor
light loom
but we shouldn't introduce too many areas that problem can occur in
yes
exactly!
which is a TODO that i want to add
steep spruce
this issue is also a huge problem with interpreted languages
light loom
yeah dynamic languages suck
steep spruce
because they are especially vulnerable
light loom
stuff like groovy has backward inheritence too
e.g. in groovy you get the normal child inherits from parent
but you can also
dynamically
steep spruce
dynamically
light loom
parent inherits from child
the concept seems cool but once you get an issue, gg can't debug
steep spruce
parent inherits from child
because that makes autocompletion awesome
and work better
(this is sarcasm if you haven't noticed but I felt somewhere in my heart you haven't noticed)
light loom
annotation processing might be a little bit difficult, I haven't looked into it so not sure the javax.annotation.processing api has everything we need out of the box
steep spruce
it's our best shot at fixing this problem
light loom
it can deffo be done ofc
steep spruce
this also proves that annotations are the best way to handle commands
light loom
yess
the entire annotation system we got going on is so nice and clean and perfect lol
steep spruce
lel
after FlameWare my old annotation library which I abandoned I haven't worked much with annotation reflection
annotation reflection is super easy to me anyways
that code is dog shit tho
light loom
it's a fun topic anyway 🙂
can I put your name on this? https://github.com/javadiscord/java-discord-api/issues/28
steep spruce
can I put your name on this? https://github.com/javadiscord/java-discord-api/iss...
if your okay with my limited time availability until may 14, sure
well I can still get on everyday but for a max total of like 3h/d
light loom
yeah no rush, we have loads of other stuff in the TODO
steep spruce
max
light loom
17 issues at the moment + a few more that need to be added
and loads of lengthy tasks that need to be done
steep spruce
you can put my name
light loom
e.g. docs, unit testing etc
light loom
can you comment on the issue?
steep spruce
can you comment on the issue?
what do I comment lol
light loom
that you'll pick it up or whatever - i just need your interaction in the issue so you'll show up in the list when i assign it
for some reason, i can't just type your username in
i described the process here anyway
steep spruce
that you'll pick it up or whatever - i just need your interaction in the issue s...
alright there
steep spruce
that you'll pick it up or whatever - i just need your interaction in the issue s...
I guess I need to learn discord API lol
after reading the code it does mostly look like network calls
light loom
yeah the code is primarily a wrapper over the discord api
when we receive events we just send it to the users handler method
the way the users create the handlers and call the "wrapper methods" is what we define as the framework
steep spruce
I never worked with direct discord API ever
butt I do have great experience in doing stuff like.. reflection and commands
light loom
- the additional benefits we give such as caching and rate limit control
the API is straight forward, the docs explain how stuff works https://discord.com/developers/docs/resources/application
steep spruce
+ the additional benefits we give such as caching and rate limit control
i feel like I might have to create a separate cache for commands idk tho
light loom
why?
the cache we have is just a Map<Long, List<Integer, Class>> (long is guild_id)
the List<Object> is just all the objects we've cached, channels, users, etc
steep spruce
the List<Object> is just all the objects we've cached, channels, users, etc
ohh ok
light loom
you can throw anything into the List and look it up via an id or something
e.g. cache.get(1, Channel.class)
will give u the channel object that has ID 1
steep spruce
if we use low-memory cached values of parsed args it can significantly reduce the reflection needed for every command (because if the parsing is like 90% done we just need to cache it and then 90% of the reflection is done, all that's needed is to specialize it for the command)
light loom
okay
steep spruce
okay
also what if I add the ability to add custom annotations to commands
like a set of predefined actions for a command that can be done via 1 annotation
light loom
if you can't re-use the caching code we have, create your own 🙂
try make it as generic as possible so maybe it can be re-used in :cache
steep spruce
@SlashCommand
@GuildOnly
public void onPingCommand(...) {}
I think I can reuse the caching code y'all have
steep spruce
```java
@SlashCommand
@GuildOnly
public void onPingCommand(...) {}
```
in the annotation processor,
if the command invoker is just a User it could throw to tell to upgrade to a Member instead of a User when @GuildOnly is there for example
what do u think?
light loom
ideally we want User instead of Member
steep spruce
public @GuildOnly void onPingCommand(User user) {}
steep spruce
ideally we want User instead of Member
Member would be a member of a server
light loom
what does GuildOnly mean? can only be invoked inside a server and not DMs?
steep spruce
what does GuildOnly mean? can only be invoked inside a server and not DMs?
yep
you can invoke slash commands in DMS yk lol
light loom
Member would be a member of a server
User has more information attached to it
steep spruce
User has more information attached to it
Member is an extender of User tho
light loom
let me check
public record Member(
@JsonProperty("guild_id") long guildId,
@JsonProperty("user") User user,
@JsonProperty("roles") List<String> roles,
@JsonProperty("joined_at") String joinDate) {}
it just has stuff like Member#hasRole, Member#hasPermission, Member#add... etc etc
light loom
so it's just the roles that are extra
steep spruce
so it's just the roles that are extra
and permissions
and adding then
connecting them to vcs
light loom
doesn't look it?
steep spruce
kicking them
banning them
light loom
that's done by user_id
steep spruce
muting
light loom
user_id inside member and user is the same
I think User makes more sense, maybe we can merge them somehow?
I think I can
we just add ```java
@JsonProperty("roles") List<String> roles,
@JsonProperty("joined_at") String joinDat
so none of this member.user() nonsense
steep spruce
I think `User` makes more sense, maybe we can merge them somehow?
but what if someone uses it in DMS?
light loom
List<Role will just be empty
steep spruce
what if someone does User#addRole in DMS? you want it to take a screenshot?
light loom
we internally cache and update objects
but you can't do User#addRole inside DM because there's no guild assosicated to it
so in your code
if @DMsOnly (for example)
they can't use the guild object
i think
dunno experiment 🙂
light loom
i'm only theorising i'm not sure, it's 11pm my mind is going dead lol
steep spruce
alright I can create commands and then tell you everything
light loom
good luck, looking forward to seeing what you make!
steep spruce
i'm only theorising i'm not sure, it's 11pm my mind is going dead lol
it's 1am I should rly sleep
cya
light loom
night
steep spruce
ideally we want User instead of Member
btw ik I really should be sleeping but just saying you didn't really answer the main question
like if there was a set of defined annotations for commands that could be used, and people could even make their own, if that's a good idea xD
also tab completer providers
we should get a basic annotation based lib working before we think of like goodies to have
also I'll try to build the best API I can
plain ledge
also tab completer providers
we should get a basic annotation based lib working ...
Yup
I suggested making a ksp, or wharver the java equivalent of that is for event listener annotations
@steep spruce would you be willing to make a GitHub issue or comment on the slash command issue with the proposed way a user would use the api and write a short summary there so it’s all in one place
restive void
Whens that oauth2 API issue on gh gonna be moved into the ready to pick up section?
plain ledge
Whens that oauth2 API issue on gh gonna be moved into the ready to pick up secti...
Want me to assign you to it?
(I don't think any of the models for this are implemented)
restive void
Want me to assign you to it?
Maybe but idk. It caught my eye but I've barely worked with oauth before but it might be an interesting challenge 🤔
plain ledge
@restive void lmk if u wanna be assigned then, there is also guilds template which are just more of the normal stuff
orchid portal
widget image is not complete?
ohh just need to make the enum
@plain ledge in which packge we were making the enums?
i forgor
plain ledge
<@456226577798135808> in which packge we were making the enums?
models I believe
orchid portal
yes its models
light loom
The action was passing
orchid portal
The action was passing
yes coz it uses the branch's spotless config
light loom
ah well it's fine
orchid portal
ohh wait u changed the spotless config to the old oen
thats y everything felt off
@light loom intentional?
light loom
ah yeah it is - I reverted it
the reason I did this was because I got fed up of seeing the following:
public void something(int a, int b, int c) {}
public void something(int a,
int b,
int c) {}
public void something(int a,
int b, int c) {}
all 3 formats passing spotless
(example)
there was just some stuff that wasn't being changed when i wanted it to be so we have to redo the original spotless implementation that you did to do everything and be strict
orchid portal
ohh ok makes sense
light loom
@orchid portal just checked the PR - looks good man! thanks!
Since I raised the PR - I cannot approve it but you can
Are you interested in some more child labour? there's the webhook api that needs a builder :3
orchid portal
Are you interested in some more child labour? there's the webhook api that needs...
i'll only be able to do it tomorrow now
light loom
no problem
i'm being slaved at work rn - i'm actually stuck and can't fix something lol
orchid portal
i'm being slaved at work rn - i'm actually stuck and can't fix something lol
#1051826284008853505
lol
light loom
nobody will answer it 😭
orchid portal
prove it
light loom
it's a specific issue with TypeScript, AWS Synthetics, Lambda and Credentials
oak flare
well ofc if you never ask
light loom
well ofc if you never ask
boi i'm the tj aws expert
if i can't do it - the average jo can't either
oak flare
well there are experts here though
orchid portal
i dont doubt that
light loom
I'm gonna try my best to figure it out, I don't have the luxury of being able to wait around - my JOB DEPENDS ON IT
(not literally)
But I'm a senior
I spoke to one of the other seniors
I told them if i can't get it working i'm gonna rip all the typescript and write it all in Java
orchid portal
damn
light loom
i can convince the tech lead ezpz
steep spruce
Are you interested in some more child labour? there's the webhook api that needs...
whatever gets this done quicker
light loom
I'm gonna try my best to figure it out, I don't have the luxury of being able to...
(i fixed it :3)
steep spruce
I suggested making a ksp, or wharver the java equivalent of that is for event li...
KSP?
orchid portal
@light loom is channel requests still not finished?
orchid portal
did u fucking generate this all with ai
orchid portal
plain ledge
Jesus Christ
orchid portal
Arrays.stream(clazz.getConstructors()).filter(c -> c.getParameters() == 0).findAny()
plain ledge
`Arrays.stream(clazz.getConstructors()).filter(c -> c.getParameters() == 0).find...
What is that method for
orchid portal
What is that method for
getting the 0 arg constructor
from a class
only if reading was an option
plain ledge
getting the 0 arg constructor
I mean when do we use it
plain ledge
I’m on my phone
light loom
<@821143476455342120> is channel requests still not finished?
its done
light loom
did u fucking generate this all with ai
no just the models at the start
light loom
`Arrays.stream(clazz.getConstructors()).filter(c -> c.getParameters() == 0).find...
yeah fine
orchid portal
yeah fine
dont change it, i just have the urge to write ever foreach loop in a stream
its out of control now
light loom
i'm not gonna change it myself
the code is perfectly readable
you save nothing by condensing code like the example you provided
if anything, it makes it harder to refactor in the future if we did it
but there are some areas that can deffo do with the improvements
such as the areas with heavy indentations
plain ledge
Isn't stream more efficient?
orchid portal
yes
steep spruce
Isn't stream more efficient?
nope
a stream needs to warm up before being useful
does some extra stuff
making it slower than a for loop
light loom
and all the initialisation too, we already have a [] but by using a stream, under the hood it needs to wrap it first
steep spruce
I could make a good implementation of a stream that is basically the same performance as a normal for loop
light loom
the reason people like streams more is because it's more declarative and encourages immutability
and using lambdas with streams is awesome
but my problem here is Familiarity
steep spruce
the reason people like streams more is because it's more declarative and encoura...
people use it because it's overall just better for readability
light loom
you'll lose that with a complex stream vs a single for-loop doing a single if-statement
steep spruce
for small collections/arrays I'd encourage it
light loom
the problem I have with Taz's example is that the complexity is introduced by the Optional returned
not so much the stream itself
steep spruce
the problem I have with Taz's example is that the complexity is introduced by th...
why don't we use an expressible library?
so that we could return Result<Value, Exception> for example, or use better optionals
light loom
no
light loom
Arrays.stream(clazz.getConstructors())
.filter(c -> c.getParameters() == 0)
.findAny()
.orElse(throw new RuntimeException(..));
would be best stream approach
light loom
yeah that's what i meant
but another problem is..
spotless isn't gonna do that pretty formatting
you'll get shit like this:
steep spruce
you guys use formatters???
light loom
Arrays.stream(clazz.getConstructors())
.filter(c
->
c.getParameters() == 0)
.findAny()
.orElse(
throw new RuntimeException(..));```
steep spruce
just use your brain to format better
light loom
you guys use formatters???
yeah it's the best way to keep the entire codebase consistent and unopinionated
steep spruce
what if someone uses formatter "shittier" on accident
light loom
we have it defined in gradle so they can't use a different formatter
gradle:spotlessApply
gradle build will fail if you don't run that
steep spruce
alright
light loom
and since our pre-commit does gradle build it won't let you merge if that fails
steep spruce
```java
Arrays.stream(clazz.getConstructors())
.filter(c -> c.getParameter...
for (Constructor<?> c : clazz.getConstructors()) {
if (c.getParameters() == 0) return c;
}
throw new RuntimeException(..)
you sure this isn't better? a stream only looks good and is worth it tbh if you make nice code somewhat like this:
// notice how we use a lot of those cool looking lambdas using `::`
requests.stream()
.filter(Request::isAsync)
.map(Request::execute) // some result
.forEach((result) -> ...);
my opinion
light loom
Yeah I'm sure, for a simple function it does not need that, we just want to return a value or throw an error to the user
orchid portal
so that we could return `Result<Value, Exception>` for example, or use better op...
@light loom is this not AsyncResponse?
light loom
<@821143476455342120> is this not AsyncResponse?
yeah for a callback function
orchid portal
Are you interested in some more child labour? there's the webhook api that needs...
lets do that now
steep spruce
<@821143476455342120> is this not AsyncResponse?
its just an example lol
it wasn't meant to use any code I know
oh wait
I forgot to really check the reply
💀
orchid portal
@light loom how would i know what response to parse it into?
thats what i was saying to include it int request
light loom
check docs 😦
orchid portal
@light loom do we at least have all the models?
restive void
I think theres some models missing
light loom
<Void>
light loom
yeah i just copied how vert.x handles this situation for their async stuff
orchid portal
Models are missing but ig for response we have all the models
light loom
try adding the missing models
orchid portal
we gon add everything in this pr
light loom
Yeah we can
It wouldn't be the first mega PR
We'll just all review it together, the changes aren't tested anyway
I only manually tested like 2 of them
But we're not going live without unit and integration tests
I think that's the last bit of human labour 
orchid portal
@light loom did u checked the reviews on the pr?
light loom
I will look properly later
light loom
Taz is the PR ready?
orchid portal
Taz is the PR ready?
No
orchid portal
public class CreateMessageBuilder {
private final long channelId;
private Optional<String> content;
private Optional<Integer> nonce;
@light loom wrong naming or is this intentional?
this is a multipart request
and we're finding it out now
light loom
The name is based on the ChannelMessageRequest
orchid portal
The name is based on the ChannelMessageRequest
Shouldn't it be ChannelMessageRequestBuilder?
light loom
I've just been replacing Request with Builder
Bc this is user facing and the long name is kinda bad for them
They will never see the Request variant as it's part of the internals
orchid portal
for the name of the builder just use the same name but instead of `Request` call...
bruh i thought u meant add builder at the end
light loom
Aah don't worry about it
We can sort out the inconsistencies later when we write tests
We'll have to touch majority of the files anyway so any bugs, inconsistency, todos, have to get fixed then
molten tusk
hello, can i contribute as well?
light loom
of course, check out https://github.com/orgs/javadiscord/projects/1/views/2?pane=issue&itemId=58197125
molten tusk
i commented on #81
this looks so easy to follow, you guys have done a very good job!
help me please i cannot create a branch: remote: Permission to javadiscord/java-discord-api.git denied to notyourhabibti
light loom
you need to fork the repository
hang on, i'll add you as a maintainer instead
try now
orchid portal
https://github.com/javadiscord/java-discord-api/pull/90
dont u have a job already? y is this a new github account
molten tusk
i don't use github
pushed changes! ❤️
what do i have to do for https://github.com/javadiscord/java-discord-api/issues/14?
light loom
basically, when logging we should have an ID attached to the log messages so we can see which log messages appear for what
e.g.
event received -> we log with an ID
any methods that get called that does a log
should have this ID attached to it
so we can see all the logs that appeared in relation to a specific event
light loom
custom appender ig
molten tusk
this is multi threaded though if you get an event and then another event at the same time the flow id will be changed and it will not link back up??
light loom
look into "mapped diagnostic context" (MDC) on google for log4j and run some experiments
you can set a few properties such as the guildId, userId etc to appear in the logs
start simple though with just a random number (or auto incrementing int)
molten tusk
i will do something else
orchid portal
i don't use github
gitlab then?
molten tusk
hi @orchid portal
i added to your branch some of the TODO comments and missing objects, i think that was the best place to do it?
oh I did it in my branch
light loom
gitlab then?
microsoft
it's common to see that
also @molten tusk did you just do the TODOs?
molten tusk
to my branch
molten tusk
sure
orchid portal
molten tusk
imposter is wrong and it does not match the docs
{
"id": "",
"type": 0,
"content": "",
"channel_id": "",
"author": {
"id": "",
"username": "",
"avatar": "",
"discriminator": "",
"public_flags": 0,
"flags": 0,
"bot": false,
"system": false,
"banner": "",
"accent_color": 0,
"global_name": ""
},
"pinned": false,
"mention_everyone": false,
"tts": false,
"timestamp": "2024-05-05T18:33:48Z",
"edited_timestamp": "2024-05-05T18:33:48Z",
"flags": 0,
"position": 0
}
but the docs say author is user
light loom
the openapi spec is returning author when it should be user?
molten tusk
yes
light loom
keep a note of it but see if you find any other occurrences of the spec not matching the docs
molten tusk
i think i am doing something wrong, the object does not match the request
molten tusk
```json
{
"id": "",
"type": 0,
"content": "",
"channel_id": "",
"autho...
does not match the docs
plain ledge
but the docs say `author` is `user`
that looks like a user
light loom
I'm gonna try make a team on discord, this should also give you the "developer" badge on your profile
restive void
Discord lets u make teams for ur bots?
plain ledge
Discord lets u make teams for ur bots?
you dont create bots on the discord dev portal
u create applications
and then create bots under it, u can also do like presence and shit
and u can create applications under "teams" I believe
restive void
Oh i see
orchid portal
@molten tusk u'll have to revert all those changes coz its already been done in the other pr
sry for ur time waste wazei should've told u that
worthy flower
it seems there is important progress
orchid portal
@light loom do u wanna roll back to my config and we can edit it over time?
u can install eclipse and also edit it
light loom
Yeah I will do let me get setup first to be able to play with it
restive void
Add me @light loom
light loom
Sure
plain ledge
@light loom my school ends the end of may so I’ll be able to work on the project again since summer starts. Rn I’m busy with some other stuff and don’t have time on top of school
light loom
No problem nopox, focus on your own stuff and work on this project whenever you have time to kill
orchid portal
<@494830783765151754> what's left i wanna merge
1 enum
orchid portal
im very sure we havent
light loom
yeah we deffo haven't
we've been blindly writing these APIs based on the docs
@orchid portal should I work on it?
light loom
it's not - we just have unit tests left
orchid portal
<@494830783765151754> should I work on it?
sure
light loom
which enum is it?
orchid portal
which enum is it?
component
orchid portal
no not component
i actually used Integer instead of making an enum
and after pushing i realized it should be an enum
also the build is failing rn
@light loom ok its the components in EditMessageRequest
light loom
cool ill fix
orchid portal
also check for components in other places
@light loom also fix builders names while ur at it
light loom
sure
steep spruce
No problem nopox, focus on your own stuff and work on this project whenever you ...
within the end of half of may I should start
I'm really busy on school rn
light loom
@molten tusk sorry can you remove your gpg keys? (edit: i removed it)
they're still on my system
so i keep commiting against your name - nvm it wasn't - it just didn't update on edit
orchid portal
i want to work on sm fun stuff as well
orchid portal
wanna work on the `@Source` param?
whats that
light loom
so we have annotatons right
e.g. @MessageCreate
we want a new one called @Source so that an @EventListener only gets called when it's from that defined source
e.g. private message or guild or both
anyways I have done the changes @orchid portal
https://github.com/orgs/javadiscord/projects/1/views/2?pane=issue&itemId=61157040 this is the ticket I am talking about
but it's not refined, you're welcome to refine and work on it 👀
or if you want a real challenge...
there's also this one: https://github.com/orgs/javadiscord/projects/1/views/2?pane=issue&itemId=59639792 (Enforcing Nonce)
can we also choose a name for our framework !?
oak flare
## can we also choose a name for our framework !?
yes please
light loom
javadiscord
java discord library
java discord interface
imadethisinjava
idk man
oak flare
trust me OpenJDA 💀
light loom
it would be cool if JDA wasn't open source
light loom
JDA PRO
light loom
lmaooo
should we take the first letter of every contributor
and make a word out of it
e.g.
taz
wazei
nopox
anax
squid
``` = wants frameworkw = wazei
a = anax
n = nopox
t taz
s = squid```people wont get it
oak flare
also unfair for other contributors
light loom
what other contributors
oak flare
future
light loom
i'll do it using all the v1 contributors
light loom
u better commit a fix to the readme or something
thing is, people might think its a spin off on JDA and except the same coding style?
disbot?
oak flare
ofc I would avoid anything jda related lmao
oak flare
I dont get it though lmao
restive void
tim suggested AccordAPI
Doesnt sound java related
All the good names lowkey taken ngl
Javacord, Discord4J
I posted a possible name idea on the discussion
light loom
Idk why it thought it was Spanish
plain ledge
this one sounds weird tho
sounds like discoboard or smth
like a actual bot or bot finding website
light loom
Yeah thought so
Lol somebody make a drag and drop editor
"drag an event listener", "create event", "send request"
Should be easy actually 👀
plain ledge
"drag an event listener", "create event", "send request"
like scratch?
That'd be kinda cool
https://github.com/google/blockly like smth based on this
steep spruce
https://github.com/orgs/javadiscord/discussions/54
Encord
light loom
Should we name it after a vegetable
The cauliflower framework
We really such at names - not even a short list
steep spruce
We really such at names - not even a short list <:pepe_sad:979524296462467102>
Cork
Discork
this cork
orchid portal
The cauliflower framework <:pepekek:646439889797251082>
That sounds good
light loom
Ah the terrorist framework
plain ledge
Fr
steep spruce
Ah the terrorist framework
Nono it's popularity will blow up
so like
uranium gang
like rust has rustacians
uranium has uraniumians
or uranium gang
light loom
It's the visuals
light loom
I deleted
steep spruce
before I say anything
light loom
I know you saw it
steep spruce
I just want to say I'm 14
tawdry pewter
damn
light loom
@tawdry pewter Where tf did you come from
Hi though
Snooping on top secret conversations!!
Hozeyn, any name ideas??
tawdry pewter
Hi though <:peepo_heart:885480929206874132>
hi my friend
orchid portal
but its very easy to guess what it was
light loom
What was it then taz
orchid portal
What was it then taz
ur anus ig?
light loom
Of course you'd think about my anus 🥰
steep spruce
What was it then taz
lemme hop on vencord and get the screenshots
if you don't mind
light loom
WHAT
light loom
Should we name ourselves vencord
orchid portal
Should we name ourselves vencord
def not
orchid portal
choose something which is not existent in discord space already
plain ledge
Should we name ourselves vencord
Original
sharp ferry
Should we name ourselves vencord
do you like wario?
steep spruce
do you like wario?
"it's a me! mari-"
"bro that's not the script, you are not og Mario, you are wario"
sharp ferry
The Discord Wario API or DWAPI
steep spruce
TikTok ew
light loom
The Discord Wario API or DWAPI
Wait this could be it
sharp ferry
Djinncord
D for discord, j for java
But Djinn is also an existing really cool word
light loom
what's the meaning?
placid wharfBOT
TJ-Bot
sharp ferry
what's the meaning?
Jinn
Wait no
Djinn seems to also work
Here all the english words starting with Dj : [dj, djagatay, djagoong, djakarta, djalmaite, djasakid, djave, djebel, djebels, djehad, djelab, djelfa, djellab, djellaba, djellabah, djellabas, djerib, djersa, djibbah, djibouti, djin, djinn, djinni, djinny, djinns, djins, djuka]
so
light loom
Dijkstra'a Discord Framework
sharp ferry
Djinn is the best here
tawdry pewter
Here all the english words starting with Dj : [dj, djagatay, djagoong, djakarta,...
these words have meaning?
sharp ferry
Dijkstra'a Discord Framework <:pepekek:646439889797251082>
Could work indeed
tawdry pewter
all look arabic
light loom
Falafel framework
sharp ferry
what
placid wharfBOT
TJ-Bot
light loom
Dunno i just said something random 
If you've never had falafel ala, you should try it
In a wrap
It's actually lovely
steep spruce
okay, I'll answer this because I'm a Muslim
"jinn" is basically a term for a stronger variant of a ghost
plain ledge
You can’t use JDA without using the web socket
steep spruce
which, most jinns are enemies since Satan controls jinn
only few are good
light loom
what's the most important thing about your framework compared to jda ?
We have quiet a few
To name some:
plain ledge
I prefer koshari or shawarma
The food