Holes in the Roster/Small Additions That Could Be Welcome

[remote nest]

Currently, the mod's roster (for the most part, pending some GDI buffs) feels pretty good, but in playing the mod I notice that on both teams there exists some glaring holes in the selection of classes that I feel could be filled to flesh out a team's options. Now, for an RTS, having glaring holes in a roster isn't necessarily a bad thing, and can be a good thing as players choose (or not choose) which team they want to play.

This, however, is a multiplayer FPS where you are unable to choose your team, and especially for a newer player or a player with a more limited skillset of which roles they are good at, this can be a pretty bad thing. In the spirit of keeping asymmetrical rosters I'm not suggesting anything that would have the teams mirror each other, but for the sake of standard team play and those dynamics I do feel some vital, basic roles should be filled to grant both factions an amount of flexibility that allows them to be played differently depending on the players of that team and the mood of those players.

I also understand this is not IA. I'm not, and never will, ask for more than what I'm asking for right now. I just feel that, especially considering how Harvesters, MSA's, and Mobile Stealth Generators do not offer compelling gameplay on their own, that having one or two more options to use would help flesh this game out.

A lot of these are just suggestions/ideas, and honestly I would never expect recreations of them. If any of them are listened to, your interpretation or use of them is entirely up to you.

For GDI's Vehicles:

• With the Mammoth MK.II being a hero unit, GDI lacks that traditional Mammoth Tank power feeling, as well as a proper front-line "Tank" unit. Something with guns that can soak up damage and allow your more fragile teammates do what they need to do. This could be a literal Mammoth Tank, it could also be something else like a beefed up Titan.

For GDI's Infantry:

• As with Nod, the upper-cost tiers lack compelling choices, as well as proper role specialization. Depending on which direction the Disruptor Soldier is moved in, whether it be leaned into being a close-range anti-infantry/structure or if it's made to be intended for vehicles, something like a high-burst damage anti-ground-vehicle unit like a single-shot javelin that shoots strong and slow anti-vehicle projectiles, or even an anti-material rifle trooper (single-shot mags and finite ammo to not breach into the Sniper's role). Or something designed that uses a weapon like a Neopup PAW-20 for that real GDI Big-Guns Fantasy.
• Similarly, a Tanya-style infiltration unit isn't something that GDI really has either, and I feel like base infiltration is an entire aspect of gameplay that Reborn could explore better.

For Nod's Vehicles:

• As with the actual Tib Sun game, it feels disappointing that Nod doesn't have major iconic vehicle like a Mammoth Tank, but also I don't really know what could fill that sort of void. Though, honestly, the Cyborg Reaper feels like it has a bit of an identity crisis.
• Otherwise, I think the Tick Tank could either be tooled to be more focused as a defensive vehicle (slower, better armor), and a faster Light Tank given that could balance out Nod's offensive frontlines. While GDI has that sort of MBT-role focus with the Titan, I feel like Nod's deal is to have more specialized units.

For Nod's Infantry:

• For the eventual Kerubim nerf, having it instead be made to be an anti-vehicle unit leaves a similar hole in the upper-cost tiers as GDI. Something like a heavily armored Flame Trooper that instead fires big napalm fireballs for strong AoE burst damage, combined with being unable to sprint and having good beefy armor makes for something that could be exciting to play with.
• Without the Hijacker, though, Nod only having 1 hero unit to GDI's 2 feels... wrong. If not the Hijacker, may I suggest a Nod Avatar hero-unit vehicle? Or something?

[edgy belfry]

so most RTS mods of TS i've seen remedy Nod's lack of "Mobility" issues (as that is primarily the problem with TS Nod, they just seem too focused on being hunkered down and defending and using ambushes instead of feeling like something that's meant to control the battlefield quickly and with enough numbers to spook GDI into action) with vehicles by just straight up giving them a "Tank" tank, and calling it a Precursor to the eventual Scorpions we'd see in say C&C3, perhaps a "Cobra Tank" kinda vibe would work? failing that, i've seen people do a Trike with a Mortar on it for more leans into Hit-And-Run but that blends more with Buggies and Bikes in a team comp beatdown.

I do like the idea of them getting a prototype of the Avatar (something like the Purifier in Kane's Wrath) would be pretty neat to see, where Nod's recycled the Core Defender blueprints from Cabal. something about a 10m tall bipedal machine coming down at you with armageddon fire and lasers sounds like something horrifying (dunno if you'd put rockets on it to give it a chance against Aircraft like the Mk.II can)

[gusty kernel]

I think both of you hit the nail on the head. These are exactly the units that feel as if they ‘re “missing” from the unit roster. And like both of you also seem to imply the big problem is the source material (Tiberian Sun).

Not only does Reborn suffer from the effects of reimagining an RTS into a shooter, but as you pointed out Tiberian Sun already had some unit roster issues to begin with.

The (original) mammoth tank and the Avatar were also the first things to come to my mind for consideration. The stupid thing is that the more you try to balance things out that way, the more you distance yourself from the core mod concept..one day you would find that Reborn would be more a C&C3 mod than a Tiberian Sun mod, lol.

[edgy belfry]

i think we're past the point of caring about "core concept" when we have an Enforcer who looks like Master Chief with a Sonic Emitter rifle and the Kerubim literally being a Doc-Oct rip-off with a powerful energy rifle, the atmosphere and uniforms still is what holds you to that core concept and it's done immaculately. the Infantry feel good to play with on how many choices you have, it's just the vehicles leave something to be desired for me, and that they also feel like they're not actually made from the materials they're meant to be (a tank should resist small arms fire to great effect, but get absolutely slaughtered by Rockets, and a player should be able to use say a Tick Tank as cover because of it's bulky health to assist in killing a Titan or Wolverine).

i think from games like Tiberian Dawn and Tiberium Wars: people expect Nod to really be - as a doctrine - fast-paced, in your face, hit-and-run guerrilla warfare tactics and demanding control of the map and can keep it as long as GDI doesn't get a chance to build up enough to completely flatten them. this usually is shown with units being cheaper than GDI's and have mainly a focus on mobility until they eventually need to stretch that heavier artillery and armoured muscle. honestly if Nod got a conventional tank of some sort that was quite a speedy thing, even if it had a caliber smaller than the Tick: i'd happily take it if it meant i could drive-by and pop titans faster than they can turn around to deal with me; that would fix Nod's weird Identity Crisis they've got immediately in TS.

[edgy belfry]

GDI having Rocket Infantry was a nice thing to fix that inconsistency of lacking Rockets and Anti-Air capability for GDI, but they probably also need a far more dedicated mobile AA option. perhaps a precursor to the Slingshot might be an idea?