Moderation Suggestions

[tender raft]

i think its time for some backstory

[wicked ore]

Please

[tender raft]

i have a long explanation to give i guess

[wicked ore]

I’m all ears

[tender raft]

here we go gimmie a sec

It all started in October. The server started falling to pieces, some mods were abusing power, some were acting with malpractice, and the whole server needed reforms, including the moderation team

this was when we realized everything was colossally out of date

as the days progress in ealry october, a forum was opened to the public to help with moderation suggestions; a place where the server could make their voices known/heard.

that day was october 8th.

many users suggested many forms of change, but the most influential suggestion was making a universal motion, one that would be posted here, in #announcements that would determine Nathan's ability to continue working with the mods

#announcements message

here was the referendum in question.

posted on october 9th

After the 24 hour vote period, the motion was unanimously in favor of nathan stepping down form moderation duties, so thats what he did

later that day, the board of directors began an impromptu motion to thwart the result of the public server motion

[maiden cedar]

Let's do another referendum

[tender raft]

this exasperated the conditions in the server

[obtuse glacier]

We just need a complete overhaul of everything

[tender raft]

leading to one of the worst break outs of fighting in our history

both in public and internal

i took a month long break from mod duties.

[maiden cedar]

q

[obtuse glacier]

Yeah

[tender raft]

uhm im trying to explain here

can you not

[obtuse glacier]

Moderation issues that you won’t understand

[maiden cedar]

dw abt it

[tender raft]

ANYWAYS

[maiden cedar]

Don't worry about it

proceed on

[tender raft]

after the events of 10/9 everything entered a quiet period

[wicked ore]

Look up if you really wanna know, let Adler speak

[tender raft]

then i returned.

thats when shit hit the fan

i returned and the first thing i wanted to do was fix this server

so begin the periods of meetings, and long discussions and conversations

that ultimately lead to the creation of "Project Odyssey"

a complete and utter server reform

everything was going to change

the channel structure

the roles

the rules

the internal protocols

(the role icons are the only thing that remains of that btw)

the mod team back then fully backed it

it was motioned, and approved

and work on odyssey began

things finally started to look good for the publc server

then... things took a dark, dark turn

disagreements began sprouting left and right

Tim, was driven out of the public server (for good reason)

there was a mass mod vote that lead to the instatement of the admin team

8 people held the role at one point

[mental tree]

the one thing i did that stayed lol

[obtuse glacier]

What account was Tim again

[tender raft]

and then it was revealed that we were going to start dismissing moderators

Moderators who were inactive

moderators who were biased

moderators who were old fashioned

[obtuse glacier]

Gabriel stop carrot smacking everyone

[tender raft]

were all going to be dismessed

[wicked ore]

Can you guy please stop talking until Adler is done. I mean seriously just let them say everything they need to say without butting your heads in.

Thank you

[mental tree]

Um thank you but he literally asked me to add things in lmfao

[tender raft]

that was a good 60% of the team, including some of the admins

[tender raft]

tis true

anyways

this was when ethan motioned a complete halt and reversal of the project

mods who were inactive and hadnt even LOOKED in the mod server in weeks

began to uproar

the team that was once in favor of all these changes began to revolt, and this was after me and rev worked our ASSES off fixing these issues

[mental tree]

I made a collection of people's last moderation actions back in February and probably over 70% of the team had their last action prior to Queen Elizabeth II dying

[tender raft]

mods started to abuse their power to ensure they wouldnt get removed

[mental tree]

To put it in perspective

[tender raft]

nathan accused me of harassing the public server by enforcing all these changes under their noses

bro actually quit

the board of directors caught wind of the project and tried to stop it, as they "didnt give their consent"

[maiden cedar]

Y'all unless your adler or rev, please refrain from asking questions until they finish.

[tender raft]

so we merged the mod chat and board chat to remove the discrepancies between the two teams

[mental tree]

Any mods who were active back then have quit now with the exception of Miami

[tender raft]

little did i know this would make things SO MUCH WORSE

fights broke out every day,

any progress that was made was quickly overturned

[mental tree]

Yeah it was a terrible idea and just solidified the fact that the board should not, ever, have anything to do with moderation

[tender raft]

the server that me and rev spent Literally DAYS ON END nonstop trying to fix was getting torn apart because some people didnt want to lose their green name color

weeks even

this went on for months

until my ex happened

my personal life went into the shit hole

constand court dates

constant harassment from him

he stole my families money

[mental tree]

(Which the team did absolutely nothing about, by the way)

[tender raft]

he physically assulted people

including me

made constant threats

his mother and brother joined THIS SERVER

and the mod team didnt care, and let them continue to degrade my mental health here further

[obtuse glacier]

Hang on I wnet away for a minute sorry to interrupt but who was this

[tender raft]

and then Asher himself joined the server.... and was allowed to remain in it, for hours

causing extensive damage and derailing chats

and the team blamed me for it

"you could have banned him"

"you could have taken action"

"you let him in here"

it got too much for me to handle

[maiden cedar]

refrain from speaking again except if you're Adler or Rev.

[tender raft]

and the constant fighting, abuse at home, and internal raging drove me over the edge

i spiraled

hard

everything i worked for fell apart, just like my personal life

and on january 5th 2023

i cracked

shattered

and i went over the edge

i started removing channels

mass banning people who didnt deserve it

removing roles

i was going to leave anyways so why did it matter?

[mental tree]

Is that what the team told you you did?

[tender raft]

yes

[mental tree]

That's... not true

All that happened was some of the mods were banned

There was no evidence of any roles or channels being deleted

[tender raft]

...

well that changes things

i get what i did was incredibly wrong

i understand that i betrayed the team

[mental tree]

All the mods in the mod server were banned except for me, and some of them were banned here but not all

[tender raft]

and i know you cant trust me anymore

all that happened following that was i made an incredible amount of enemies

after i left

[mental tree]

I'm gonna be entirely honest I was pretty pissed for a good while, after you left the reputation of Odyssey and it's original creator (which unfortunately was me) went down the drain and the connection any changes had to the team up top was completely broken, allowing them to simply undo anything I did

[tender raft]

after i left this was the narritive that the mod team spread about me. which wasnt true. at all

and @indigo stone im incredibly disgusted

[mental tree]

Can confirm!

[maiden cedar]

oh piss off,

you don't need to start a commission

😭

C'mon now

[tender raft]

huh

[maiden cedar]

just let it slidde

[lusty osprey]

(Cue the clear lack of attempting to understand by David)

[maiden cedar]

it happened months ago

[tender raft]

look

i know what i did was wrong

[mental tree]

I took on the role of borderline insanity, at least from what I've been told by people here after Adler left and a lot of people were banned, some of which were relatively notable here. Cora, Kwood and Lysander were some I can name off the top of my head

[tender raft]

but you cant ignore the faults of the mod team in this situation either

[lusty osprey]

I swear I wonder what would've happened had I not been demoted and didn't leave bc Adler would've probably gave the reigns to me and let him sort everything out while any problems that arose would be promptly dealt with

[maiden cedar]

No, you're right, the mods do have things own up to.

[tender raft]

@wicked ore thats the story

[lusty osprey]

Granted Nathan trying to profit off the deaths of thousands from a heat wave was just something I couldn't participate as a mod in, especially with how much persuading it took from everyone before any consideration was made to deal with it

[maiden cedar]

huh?!

[tender raft]

the fact that nathan accused ME of harassing the public is just insane

[tender raft]

before i nuked the server

[maiden cedar]

Was this during the European Heatwaves?

[tender raft]

yes

[maiden cedar]

ahh.

[wintry path]

Glad I was on vacation during that and had no part in modding that event

[lusty osprey]

You got accused of harassing the public, I was allegedly unprofessional and too biased (despite very much making sure ban motions for those I disliked were handled by others)

[maiden cedar]

Wasn't it the merch event.

[tender raft]

and with this, the mod team still remains incredibly biased

and nothing will change

[lusty osprey]

It was said removing me would fix everything. It did not.

[tender raft]

i digress

[maiden cedar]

The only way to get shit done nowadays is to create a # or smth

[wicked ore]

Well, the mod team seemed to leave a large portion of that story out. I understand now how you feel, and why you did the things that you did.

[maiden cedar]

(a referendum is another option)

[wicked ore]

True, it doesn’t justify Adler’s actions, doesn’t change that they could’ve responded in a different way, but it explains why.

[craggy nymph]

a referendum wont work, the last one didnt last

[maiden cedar]

But in order for that to happen, the mods gotta be against Nathan, or someone that they have a consensus.

Or atleast, not have confidence in them.

[tender raft]

yup

[mental tree]

And then one day I proposed an idea, which ended up being my last idea, of changing the tracking channels a bit in order to fix the hellhole that was all those "other system" forums under each basin

It was an idea. That was all. But alas, it ended up gaining a bit of traction from people who were in the mod chat at the time and we winded up discussing it a bit before an admin came in, proposed an opposite idea that we didn't like as much, and so then he...

Well, he motioned the very incomplete idea in the mod server with no information whatsoever, so I had to give context as to not look like an idiot, and he clearly thought it would've failed but... it passed! Woohoo.

So then it was dragged to the public server where it had mixed reactions, but ended up passing there as well. Of course, he put my name all over it in chit chat and so the people who hated it automatically started blaming me for everything, to the point of using FIONA against me, and obviously I retaliated but that was met with even more backlash because I "was a mod and shouldn't be defending myself like that"

Not too long later I left, obviously. I left a nice little message in the mod server and that was it for me

Text wall oops

[wicked ore]

And it also sounds like a real shame that Project Odyssey went in the dumpster and was set on fire with a bad reputation after you left. Really could’ve made things a lot better by the sounds of it.

[lusty osprey]

There's been too many could have beens

[tender raft]

i just wish i had the chance to go back

[wicked ore]

I wouldn’t

It probably wouldn’t be worth it

[tender raft]

i could have done it differently

[lusty osprey]

I had my plans that got thwarted, Adler had his that got thwarted, Rev had his thwarted

[mental tree]

The fact an admin riled up the community to harass me and make me leave is just insane

I had my own personal shit going on at this time, which I'm definitely not getting into because it is most certainly against the rules, and so I didn't bother fighting for that long

[tender raft]

the fact an admin blamed me for my own abuse is ridiculous

[mental tree]

Same one I assume

[tender raft]

mhm

well we know no mods are gonna read this

so

[obtuse glacier]

Hang on as I aksed above who was the person that was abusing you

[tender raft]

my ex boyfriend

relationship lasted for 6 years

[obtuse glacier]

Oh ok

[wicked ore]

I have mixed feelings about everything that’s happened with Adler, Xavier, and Rev too. I wasn’t here for any of it when it did go down, but man, sounds like things were not handled properly.

[maiden cedar]

I mean, I wasn't nesecarily involving myself with it. I was mainly trying to calm the crowd down.

[lusty osprey]

I mean most of last year prior to August I was already struggling mentally bc my home situation was shit and F13 was my go-to as something I cared about and wanted to see be better after doing so much and carrying 2021...and then it just got worse bc problems rapidly started firing, I watched many of the people I was close to in the project go in waves bc they were tired of said problems , and my desperation to focus on preventing more of them and actually focus on getting better was just too there. After it was made so I couldn't lead more than 2 teams, I tried to focus on the mod team bc if the CHUB was with little hope, I could figure out the moderation side and try to make the public server better and so I did and even though results were positive, it ended up backfiring bc of the same issues, and eventually it was to the point I gave up entirely.

Yes, I've been somewhat of an ass since because the moderation really has been terrible and very few have realized or taken steps to do anything given nothing worked prior. As much as I'm hated and as much as people hate being bluntly told my opinion, and as much as I hate to admit it, there's still a part of me that cares because of all the work I put in for two years that I want to see things here succeed. I led 4 teams, co-lead another, and was the mod lead at one point so it pains me seeing things like this bc I know what the potential of here is and I hate how badly it's constantly wasted. I've hoped and hoped for things to get better but idk.

I became public enemy 1 when I left and ever since it's felt like none of my contributions I made prior ever meant anything to anyone and that my 2 years there weren't thankful to anyone and its something that I have not liked to live with. Ofc, I would be all glad to make amends with people but at the same time, they have to be willing to actually see my side and understand I'm not trying to be the bad guy at all period.

[craggy nymph]

id say some things were overreacted to in october last year
People said a bunch of stupid stuff october 9th / 10th
Other things like banning the word bust added to the issues
Then there was java who did his attempting to get involved in things by warning people for some jokes the person they were directed at didnt care about (though the way people acted when he left was quite an overreaction in my opinion)

[mental tree]

I don't what's worse

Mods knowing very well there's problems and doing nothing about it or being completely blind to them

[lusty osprey]

I feel like it's almost everyone in a position of a power is blind to them these days

[maiden cedar]

lol

[tender raft]

and they hate us

[maiden cedar]

I never get a say in shit

[tender raft]

none of them will read this chat

which is sad

because i so desperately want them to hear it

[maiden cedar]

My voice is normally ignored and shit.

[lusty osprey]

I mean it'll be read, just ignored or some snarky remarks will be made by Nathan when he wakes up (based on history)

[maiden cedar]

I'm just there for a comedic act ig

[lusty osprey]

That's how it always is

[tender raft]

im debating pinging the mods so all of them would look in here but id probably get a mute

[wicked ore]

Probably

[tender raft]

nathan cant see out of his own ass so yea hes gonna come in here with a shit ton of whataboutism

[craggy nymph]

ami is probably the only admin that will actually read whats happening and listen

[obtuse glacier]

Ping some of the mods because it needs to get across. Just a couple that might actually care. Like Pogo and maybe Alan or something like tbat

[tender raft]

@rough wigeon please read starting here #1083165224376475648 message

i beg of you lol

[wicked ore]

I was one of the more active moderators in the mod hub and the server, specifically during my return. The mod team has become very inactive, and a former shadow of what I once knew it to be. I don’t hate anyone there, but I wish things were much better.

[obtuse glacier]

Yea

[wintry path]

You did try with the circumstances handed to you xavier and I see why you care, there's a similar situation on why I care and still follow the politics and moderation of the server, being here for almost 3 years and seeing how uniquely the project is run, thinking that this server was one of the most stable I've been in at one point

To now this

[tender raft]

same here

this server was once my escape

[maiden cedar]

tbh I don't even know why I'm still in the project.

[lusty osprey]

Yeah...so many things that could easily be fixed...just no one actually wants that which makes little sense

[maiden cedar]

I literally run my own project 😭

[wicked ore]

This is why I listened to you, because I knew this is what was really going on. It can all change, but the mod team has to want it to change.

[tender raft]

and someone competent has to lead it

[wicked ore]

Yes

That is a must

[lusty osprey]

Tbf you only started attempting to listen two weeks ago bc you were too busy arguing with me or trying to debate against every one of my points prior.

[wintry path]

It was always nice to come here and see what was going on in natl, chit chat, and talking to the people I've met in this server that I still talk to to this day, now it's way different

[tender raft]

its a shell of its former self

not the server it was when i began to moderate it

[wintry path]

Exactly

[obtuse glacier]

Ping Nathan he just kicked that srb person out for being underage so he’s clearly on now, not that he’d probably care but still worth a try

[wicked ore]

I still sympathize with you

[lusty osprey]

Honestly 2021 was the year I enjoyed the most when it came to the server, biased maybe because I became a mod then but even then, we had a lot more healthy of a server at the time...think there were 29 mods once I hopped on/trials made it through

[craggy nymph]

nathan has already said he wont talk to xavier or adler im pretty sure

[tender raft]

thats the last person i want to ping

[wintry path]

As much as I want to listen to the side that doesn't want to care much about the server's issues the circumstances and how it's run still makes me want to pay attention and input what I can from my expirences, I was even mod at one point

[tender raft]

he will just continue to blame for everything

[wintry path]

There's a pile of whataboutism the size of mount Everest that can be thrown at us and then make our comments get laughed away unfortunately

[indigo stone]

woah this chat has been very active

this is a conversation that needed to happen

[obtuse glacier]

@grim shadow i feel like I can trust you most of all the mods so even if Adler doesn’t want to ping anyone I’ll ping you, you need to read all the above because something needs to be done and ik your active bc your on rn in the NATL

[tender raft]

:/

[lusty osprey]

I mean I've been tired. I'd like to not be constantly criticizing everything trust me, if I could fix it away with a swipe I would

[tender raft]

amethyst read starting here #1083165224376475648 message

[indigo stone]

Adler I’ve seen what you sent and I do definitely have to apologize for how… harsh I suppose I was? I definitely didn’t use my best judgment during the situation

[mental tree]

Damn right you didn't

[lusty osprey]

Seems to have been a common theme not to sound bad

Bc this has happened to more than just them

[tender raft]

i appreciate it, and im sorry for nuking the mod team

[maiden cedar]

I'm going to stay out of this.....

[mental tree]

"I apologize for hurting your feelings."

"Yes, and I apologize for dropping a fat man on your country."

[indigo stone]

no worries, no matter what we’re going to have our disagreements about what happened so it’s probably best we don’t get too deep into that lol

[wicked ore]

Wise choice

[obtuse glacier]

Of course this didn’t happen

[lusty osprey]

And as much as this may not be entirely the topic of the forum, there's nowhere else it can really be said that fits without it turning into an immature shitshow by many of the immature people we have

[tender raft]

💀

[wicked ore]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-spiderman-simmons-jonah-jameson-gif-18832432

[wintry path]

Before I go and sleep let me offer a simple starting piece of advice to the mods and admins

Ignore any whataboutism for a period of time. Do not use ANY whataboutist point, perhaps about a month or two. This will allow more people to be more comfortable to address the mod team, with a public server representative being appointed, perhaps Ami/Skye. All grievances about a user that should be punished, sent to them or a forum for all these grievances to be addressed. Not sure about what past offenses to be involved, that can be discussed at a later date

[mental tree]

If the mod team was officially lead by Skye I'd probably try to get back in honestly

[obtuse glacier]

And if Nathan won’t talk to you or Adler, then it sounds as if he is one of those immature people as well unfortunately

[craggy nymph]

by cracking down it meant add forums and then stop

[lusty osprey]

I mean, my DMs still remain open for those I've had issues with. I don't ignore them, I do respond, hell all the people I was accused of major biases I've still tried to help in the end

Tried to help Chase (sadly that went nowhere)

Tried to help Josh even (that too went nowhere)

Hell I even tried to help Coley even learn to improve after his ban

[obtuse glacier]

Josh doesn’t even do it anymore

[lusty osprey]

Like jeez, all it takes is willing to listen half the time and I end up giving extra chances

[tender raft]

^

[mental tree]

Yeah you were much more lenient on chances than I was lol

[tender raft]

welp im off to track doksuri now, ping me if anything notable occurs in here

[obtuse glacier]

Yep

Ok

[grim shadow]

@obtuse glacier Hello, I read most of the discussion and I would like to apologize to @tender raft and @mental tree of what happened during that period last year. While I was not that active when Project Odyssey was ongoing, I'm sorry that both of you individuals worked really hard and did not achieve the results that would have made a change for the better. I was also going through a very tough time and I cried every week, especially after finding out my aunt got pancreatic cancer and had less than 10% chance of surviving. Both of you guys also went through a very tough time too and I'm really sorry you had to go through those hardships.

[tender raft]

i am so sorry about your aunt. and no worries at all pogo

[grim shadow]

thanks Adler 🥺

[tender raft]

how is she now?

[grim shadow]

she's fighting against it but her health is starting to improve

the chances of surviving just drop off after a year so I'm hoping it's a miracle she can overcome it

[tender raft]

thats great to hear! fingers crossed she beats the odds 🤞 and prayers for your family

[grim shadow]

thank you!

[tender raft]

not about the odds lol

but the rest!

[grim shadow]

yes

[indigo stone]

Yeah Adler I would say you put in a lot of work into Odyssey and it’s a shame things didn’t work out in the long run

We kind of had a good thing going lol

[tender raft]

it would have been Revolutionary

if it actually worked out

[mental tree]

I'd never do it again it was torture and made me want to kill people

Regardless

[tender raft]

probably the most infuriating time of my life

[mental tree]

Hope your aunt gets better!!

[grim shadow]

thx Rev! ❤️

[wintry path]

I know I said I’ll be going in my last message but I wanted to add in here that I hope your aunt’s situation gets better and she is able to beat the cancer

[grim shadow]

thx Rob!

[obtuse glacier]

Hope your aunt makes it through pogo

[native carbon]

Read through all of this, just wanted to say

1. @grim shadow Hope all keeps going well with aunt

2. Sorry that changes and efforts to improve the server didnt work out from both Rev and Adler. I did hear about some of this already but this chat today is a very strong signal most things need overdoing. I'll bring propositions out to admins and the mod team to see what they think. Even if this doesnt work, I'll keep trying sknce the server can't stay like this forever. Obviously moderation and how well its done can be as a result of a select few people, and as a trial mod im by far not the best mod. I will take any recomendations directly through dms, and I recommend that other mods can be open to recomendations and support too. If a mod in ur opinion isnt doing their job right and chats are not handled the right way, speak to them or an admin to make them aware of the poor moderation. If theres poor moderation, it should be known quickly instead of put in here where admins might take a while to get to. This is obviously for people thay havent tried this already. And im sorry Xavier is getting ignored. Shouldnt be happening

I am always looking in here fairly often, so just acknowledge any suggestions here I do take in to improve how well i do

[covert prairie]

Im so sorry about your Aunt hope things get better and a miracle happens. Hope your doing OK too ❤️

[covert prairie]

Poof has been banned and we will actually enforce the rule of no editing official agency advisories. Please keep further suggestions coming to better this server thank you : )

[quick atlas]

We sure will. But who is wv?

[craggy nymph]

they arent called wv, they were called w.w

they were banned for posting a fake advisory i think initially, which is only warnable by mods

[quick atlas]

Oh dear

[covert prairie]

the guy u unbanned 😅

[quick atlas]

Today?

[covert prairie]

correction I was mistaken he's still banned.

thought it was another guy working on them rn

[covert prairie]

he's been unbanned now officially

[covert prairie]

he was banned for a warnable offense

[silver cloak]

Why the shit hit me

[tender raft]

😭

[wicked ore]

https://tenor.com/view/that-smell-a-kind-of-smelly-smell-a-smelly-smell-that-smells-smelly-mr-krabs-spongebob-squarepants-gif-17867170

[tender raft]

FINALLY

A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION

THANK YOU MODS

CONGRATS REV

[covert prairie]

Lol your overly excited

[tender raft]

yes because rev and Xavier are yalls only hope rn

the first correct mod decision in months

[uneven mountain]

I agree

[craggy nymph]

very surprised they would even accept xavier

[tender raft]

me too but im damn happy about it

[tender raft]

do a participant review please

and like... actually do it well

because currently the role is very redundant, people who are very respectful and knowledgeable are without (such as TCA) and people who know jack shit and/or are immature occupy the status. its not the role it once was, and if maintained like this has lost its relevance and point

[native carbon]

Cuurently on the priority list and will soon be worked on 👍

[tender raft]

good

[uneven mountain]

Agreed, same for the contributor role

some people are actually trolling with the role

[native carbon]

Yeah I've noticed

[rough wigeon]

The contributor role we can’t do much about, that’d be up to the members

[uneven mountain]

oh is it automatically assigned based on activity?

[rough wigeon]

Nah it’s given when someone joins the contributor hub

[uneven mountain]

uh whats the contributor hub?

Thought contributor was also given

guess not

[rough wigeon]

It’s a separate server where all like videos and graphics and stuff like that is made

[uneven mountain]

ahh

[wintry path]

@rough wigeon Are there some people with the contributor role here not in the CHUB? I remember there’s a lot of them not active much

[uneven mountain]

There are also contributor hubs for the regional channels (US, EU, Australia, etc.).

[rough wigeon]

There are some not in the contributor hub but yeah there are regional hubs, which I’m not in really any so I can’t really see who is in what server

There are a lot of contributors though that even are in the contributor hub and don’t do much though

But a like contributor review would be up to the members

[uneven mountain]

Aren’t you in the US CHub? I believe I’ve seen you in the member list there.

[rough wigeon]

Nah I left earlier this month

[tender raft]

i think a moderator review is the highest of priority right now

some of the mods are unfit to hold a position there

and a lot of them are not on the same page

[steep remnant]

Renis

[tender raft]

the inconsistency is just upsetting atp

one mod will warn for someting another mod would let slide

not ok

[wintry path]

Coming From NATL: @lusty osprey Xavier is effectively a full mod and is just steps away from coming back and restoring order because when he left the system slowly decayed away. Expect more improvements as time goes on and he’s back in the mod server

[vital zealot]

pasting from what I said in #716215692617187328: i've seen major issues with staff teams having no consistency and it can cause bad drama

so this does need to be fixed imo

[steep remnant]

I think TCOS needs to actually followed. Does anyone look at NATL and think the shit mods are doing would classify in unclassified?

[gritty yew]

I just think if there’s nothing really doing anything and there’s no land threat at all then it doesn’t really matter what goes on

[tender raft]

yes lol. just because its unclassisfed does not mean you should be able to shitpost 24/7 end of story

[gilded drum]

yeah.

[gritty yew]

Now if there’s a major land threat or something I fully agree on moderating the hell out of the channel

[steep remnant]

This

[vital zealot]

tbh i side with the mod team on the fact NATL is getting out of control

[tender raft]

it is

its ridiculous

[wintry path]

How did the channel get off topic I forgor 💀

[vital zealot]

people basically use it as a memes channel at this point

[tender raft]

i happy xavier is being strict

someone has to

[vital zealot]

people calling 96L a bust leading to a downward spiral into basically every hour there in august 2022

[gritty yew]

at this point there could really just be a shitposting natl chat and an actual natl chat and that would literally solve everything but nobody wants to do that

[vital zealot]

#716215692617187328 has gotten slightly better than last year at least but it's still very bad

[wintry path]

So the usual culture of the chat

[tender raft]

we Literally already have that. #484125418727800843

[gritty yew]

Not really the same

[wintry path]

Pretty radical idea that I think was tried before, but what if we had forums for the systems 96L, 97L etc under the umbrella of one channel and have those channels be the strict ones

[lusty osprey]

Yeah no lol

[gritty yew]

Or just a shitposting thread in natl lmao

[tender raft]

that failed HARD

[livid halo]

yes we need a shitpost NATL lol

[native carbon]

No? How about we just stop the shitposting altogether cuz why is it needed at all lmao

[gritty yew]

because it’s fun lol

[livid halo]

ur on discord, you’re going to get shitposting

[gilded drum]

most people dont want to see it

[tender raft]

back to the mod review

[native carbon]

Well it's immature and unecessary, find something else to do, or it in #484125418727800843 or #chit-chat

[tender raft]

its time for some demotions imo

[wintry path]

Oh yeah I think it was because people thought natl would be deleted but I wouldn’t delete the main channel

[lusty osprey]

Waiting until some controversial suggestions get proposed by me once I turn full green

[gritty yew]

this is discord
And a thread would solve all the problems I truly don’t understand the reluctance

[tender raft]

good

[wintry path]

There’s still multiple solutions available

1. Be more consistent (especially when Xavier is full mod) which is long term
2. Open a shitposting thread as a pressure valve for the culture of the chat which is short to medium term
3. Full overhaul to #rules again

Probably medium to long term

[lusty osprey]

Yeah the current rules are far more vague and subject to loopholes than they used to be although I've said that numerous times by now

[native carbon]

Or just stop the shitposting? Why do we need it. Why cant you just be mature enough to not

[livid halo]

If you push too hard you’re going to build up pressure, and then people let it out. You guys need to implement something that can ease the people up. While still looking professional and following rules

[uneven mountain]

Its completely fine when you are modding people doing full on shitposting but whats happening is people do some jokes and go on related conversation from NATL discussions in Unclassified mind you and then get told to stop or be warned

[lusty osprey]

At the same time keep this in mind: There's numerous people who don't want to chat in #716215692617187328 as it is bc of how badly the shitposting is

[wintry path]

Kacper you haven’t been here for a while this has been something going on since 2020, plus I mentioned solutions that didn’t involve shitposting

[uneven mountain]

Thats the biggest problem imo, people are being modded for going on tangent convos

[lusty osprey]

So I would not mind driving the shitposters out if that means getting it so the more mature people are more inclined to talk there again

[uneven mountain]

I actively advocate modding full time shitposters btw

[wintry path]

Read #1 and #3

[gritty yew]

I am at least serious when there’s something to be serious about

[uneven mountain]

but coming in strong on people going slightly off-topic on a tangent or just some jokes is a bit too much

[livid halo]

Fair tactic, if that’s the route F13 would want to go

[native carbon]

Ik lmao, I don't need to be here that long to understand

[lusty osprey]

The ambush of warnings was simply bc the topic when I redirected at first had no reason and had been largely out of hand for a bit. However very few listened and I only warned those who made MULTIPLE disruptions after the fact

[uneven mountain]

well the whole topic started because models showed poor support for 96L causing some members to make jokes which you said to stop

[lusty osprey]

I've been here four years and had it happen once and it was a far better chat to be in but it's regressed so badly in the last year and a bit that it isn't even funny anymore

[mental tree]

Ok can someone fill me in on what exactly happened

[uneven mountain]

after that the chat completely derailed

[lusty osprey]

Cuz we had the whole everyone trying to cancel the season yet again

[uneven mountain]

again, I get that you dont like it but its not just your personal chat

[wintry path]

Very few listened because of the lack of consistency, carry on how you address situations in natl like how you did today or whenever I was stricter last year and clarify the rules and people will slowly start to listen or leave

[lusty osprey]

The thing is it's always the same people causing it

[uneven mountain]

members were just making some jokes amognst themselves

[lusty osprey]

That's my issue

[uneven mountain]

its because the same people keep the chat active when nothign is going on

there's like only 10-20 people who hand around in #716215692617187328 during unclassified

[lusty osprey]

And hell if yall want to shitpost the ATL so bad and its the same few just make a GC or something and keep it out of here

[uneven mountain]

so you will see them again

[lusty osprey]

And we've said it enough times, if there's nothing to contribute then there's no sense. It's not like we actively want the channel to be 24/7 active

[livid halo]

I’m so down for a ATL shitpost GC 😂😂

[uneven mountain]

Like I said, I am fully onboard for kicking out the full-time shitposters

[gritty yew]

sadly only 10 members can be in a gc

[mental tree]

Tropical chatroom moderation makes 0 sense and I will stand by that

Natl is undoubtedly more strict than other chats at far higher codes

[uneven mountain]

but moderating jokes between serious discussions is something I cant agree with

[mental tree]

The tcos system is broken and this is the outcome

[lusty osprey]

Yeah I see your point...it's just those full time shitposters have kinda been responsible for helping to keep the jokes at an all-time high and lead to further derailing

[uneven mountain]

I agree with you on that

There are some members who dont contribute at all and only derail

[livid halo]

Agreed.If nothing changes in ten minutes. I’m not sure why jokes can’t be made. Especially if we’re talking about invests lol

[lusty osprey]

Unfortunately my attempts prior to me returning to mod duties took forever to have dealt with so that's been another issue

[uneven mountain]

but whats happening is that the contributing members are getting moderating because they were making the same jokes as the derailing shitposters

[wintry path]

Eg, yoshii, Alex the supporter, Queens person, xori, roch
Named 6 people and there’s some room to spare but would be pretty funny to see

[livid halo]

Maybe just clearer rules would also help. Like examples, and such

I think examples could be helpful. Here’s how this breaks the rules etc

[lusty osprey]

I mean I go off of what I see, and the issue is that so much of the time when I look into the chat and I'm pretty active as is, it's some level of shitposting going on. I said on the last occurrence I'm fine with jokes here and there...as long as entire shitpost discussion isn't made out of it

[wintry path]

Seperate #rules so people don’t have to scroll as far it’s dumb but that’s human nature

[lusty osprey]

That shouldn't have merged lol

[uneven mountain]

I think most people would completely agree with that line of moderation if it was correctly enforced

most members hate active shitposting

[lusty osprey]

Trust me I'd love to be the chill mod and be laxed and have fun with the occasional joke in the chat every once in a while

It's just the certain few make that very difficult at times

[covert prairie]

Ok I'll see what I can do

[mental tree]

Honestly the class system between mutes and warnings should be removed

[covert prairie]

wdym

[mental tree]

If someone's actively disrupting chat a warning is not going to stop them, and giving one out is pointless

Should just be able to mute them immediately

[tender raft]

^

[wintry path]

Honestly not a bad idea

[covert prairie]

use the manual timeout

[mental tree]

Like the 3 warnings = 1 mute thing makes 0 sense lol

[covert prairie]

when warning

[uneven mountain]

I mean there was one member who was creating duplicate accounts and trolling #716215692617187328 and nothing was done about his main account even though other members posted screenshots

[lusty osprey]

Yeah no I escalate the punishments very fast if they choose to keep not listening lol

[covert prairie]

who

[uneven mountain]

he is still shitposting and trolling #716215692617187328 everyday

[lusty osprey]

Lol I've been mentioning Pacer in the mod hub for days now

[wintry path]

Mute —> warn to make warns more severe and then make warns have mutes for a day depending on the offense.

[deft helm]

I lose brain cells every time I'm in NATL reading up on chat a lot of the time.

[uneven mountain]

when you have members like that abusing the chat rules and getting away with it blatantly

of course actual contributors are going to be pissed at being moderated for small jokes

[lusty osprey]

I should note Pacer isn't getting away with it anymore, he got 2 warnings alone yesterday

[wintry path]

If I got muted for a day in a server I cared about I wouldn’t repeat the behavior I did

[livid halo]

Well, while I’ve been a thorn in your side. I do appreciate your effort to clean things up and wanting to make it more pleasing for people who have more knowledge to come back to NATL.

[wintry path]

So why not implement that here?

[gritty yew]

Maybe pacer would actually go outside then 😭😭

[wintry path]

This too

[lusty osprey]

Trust me as much as I have my own beef with here, if I didn't care a lot, I wouldn't be back trying for a 2nd time with the mod side of things

[uneven mountain]

Same, although I sound opposed I am glad that atleast something is being done and you are listening to the other side as well

Most people would just ignore the feedback from the other side

[lusty osprey]

Yeah no I don't go into anything without figuring out what's going on from both sides first

[livid halo]

Well, it’s important to hear what people have to say. And I appreciate what he’s doing. Even if we don’t see it the same. He’s not inherently wrong either

[gritty yew]

True

[wintry path]

1 minute to 1 hour mutes for chat disruption and other minor offenses and a notice in DMs

Warn + 1 day mute for more serious repeat offenses
3 1 day mutes in a 3 month period a ban must be discussed (with an everyone ping in the mod server) but not immediately given

This is how you make warnings meaningful

Mods of course should listen to all sides and make appropriate judgements

[uneven mountain]

before making moderation strict, would probably make sense to get it standarized

otherwise people are just going to be mad and pissed for being treated unfairly

I do agree that warnings arent worth much rn

[livid halo]

I sure as hell wouldn’t want to be muted. A warning idc, but a mute would make me stfu, cause I do want to be able to contribute meaningful things

[mental tree]

1 hour? Damn I've gone as high as 24 lol

[uneven mountain]

some people could use 24-hr mutes tbh

[lusty osprey]

Yeah that's been my issue for many months now

[wintry path]

1 hour should be enough for minor people and to deter them from getting a warning if they become meaningful one day mutes

[lusty osprey]

Like legit I feel some of the mods are scared to be viewed negatively or completely hated bc of trying to fix things

[wintry path]

24 hours in peak season NATL is like weeks of missed information when that time comes lol,

[livid halo]

Some mods are nice guys mods and then strict mods. This creates that uneven moderation view

[lusty osprey]

I tend to be both and that's what seemed to worked in my last stint

I'll be very chill but turn right around if someone is causing a ruckus

[mental tree]

1 hour for under 18

[livid halo]

You don’t want mods to be hated. But obviously you’re mods for a reason. So do the job. Don’t just make friends lol

[lusty osprey]

Mhm

[wintry path]

1. Become more consistent with moderation
2. Overhaul rules and info by splitting the channel
3. Make this the punishment system to make warnings meaningful

Would this be a good 3 step plan to present to the mod team considering you want to go down the path of being more consistent? @lusty osprey

[gritty yew]

4 make rob mod again

[wintry path]

Kids wouldn’t last 1 hour away from natl chat…

[covert prairie]

thanks for breaking things down I'll bring these suggestions up with everyone

[mental tree]

Warnings should only be used if someone isn't actively doing something

[livid halo]

People will lie about their age. Or just refuse to give it

[mental tree]

Like giving someone a warning while they're literally derailing an entire chat is pathetic lmao

[covert prairie]

we can't be age based bc people can lie about their age

[mental tree]

Dany when he misses the obvious joke

[covert prairie]

😵‍💫

woops

[gritty yew]

smh

[covert prairie]

anyways

[wintry path]

Maybe once I get a job and can make a consistent schedule and times I can come in

[gritty yew]

Rob with a job 😎

[wintry path]

Otherwise I’d be terminally online again

[mental tree]

jobert

[lusty osprey]

Very oversimplified so maybe not 100% in that order but something like that

[wintry path]

If it wasn’t oversimplified it’d be an entire book

[lusty osprey]

Lmao

[covert prairie]

we made a priority list recently and these will likely be added in

[wintry path]

I hope moderation could coalesce around a plan like that and I’m sure it’d be in the interest of the administration to see less complaints and more positive comments

The admins already have the YT project to work on

[mental tree]

I've honestly never seen a moderation system as complicated as the one we're trying to use now which is funny because by my standards this server is damn tiny

[livid halo]

Consistency is the biggest thing mates. Expect the same actions from every mod. We don’t need people thinking “well x mod is in the chat so I can break rules”

[mental tree]

That's assuming half of the mod team would ever be in a chat

[lusty osprey]

If I had a dollar for every time I have said the word consistency I'd have no college debt lol

That and if we go off of last time people just ping me to make sure no one gets away with shit lmao

[deft helm]

Or DM

[lusty osprey]

yessss

My DMs are open as I get many but also acknowledge all of them

So if there's something going on or you want to talk to me about something whether moderation or off-topic or whatever, they are there

[obtuse glacier]

Someone TLDR

[wintry path]

I would like to reiterate my suggestion to change the punishment system seeing the new #rules being posted. This would make warnings actually meaningful

Swap warnings and mutes, warnings are now the equivalent of a strike

Lesser offenses can get mutes from 10 minutes to perhaps 12 hours max. DM with a mod may follow one of these mutes for communication

Major offenses get warned, or too many lesser offenses deemed by mods to be too many, these warnings carry a mandatory 24 hour mute. Can be extended to 1-5 days based on moderator discretion. 3 of these in 3 months (1/4 year) will earn a mandatory ban discussion and procedures in the mod server

Seeing from my 3 years of experience in the chat rooms and from being a mod, mutes that last days for a “strike” or warning will be meaningful and will deter future rule breaks. No one will want to be unable to talk across the entire server for days missing landfalls, either they improve themselves or leave.

Of course, trolls and extreme offenses get banned immediately

[covert prairie]

Thank you for your suggestion. We will consider it, there have been many suggestions on how to improve the warning/mute system and we'll have a discussion on it : ).

Rules and info have been split and tcos guidelines have been updated to be more precise

[royal sand]

Late but funnily enough, I got wind of the reason for me not having the role being my immaturity lmao

[tender raft]

If TCA can’t have the participant role at least give him the advanced tropical one

[bitter yarrow]

Now I notice this may not have been y’all’s intent when making the discrimination rule however the way in which gender is never explicitly mentioned in this rule and instead can only be inferred to be lumped into the “actions that can harm a persons sentiments or beliefs” gives off a vibe of believing that people who are transgender only believe they are trans rather than knowing for a fact that they are transgender.(in doing so, potentially invalidating trans people and the research that has been done about gender)

I feel like a simple solution should be that it’s more explicitly clarified in these rules that discrimination off the basis of gender isn’t allowed.

[mental tree]

...What

[tender raft]

anyways

[mental tree]

Sam you've made a lot of big leaps but that's nuts

[tender raft]

yall took my old graphic and somehow made it worse?

[mental tree]

there needs to be another code called north atlantic and it's permanently code yellow or higher lmao

[tender raft]

lol fr

i just find it funny that yall stole the old graphic concept and made it uglier

yall even copy/pasted the disclaimer i wrote 💀

[tender raft]

time to play a game of "who wore it better"

[bitter yarrow]

Glad to see the response to pointing out a legitimate issue with the rules gets met with “your crazy there isn’t a problem”.

[mental tree]

It's the fact you randomly threw around this accusation that the server is transphobic rather than simply just bringing it up and asking for it to be added

[bitter yarrow]

Try again.

I am merely pointing out how this stance can be construed justifiably as transphobic and it would be wise to make adjustments to fix the problem.

I did not say f13 was transphobic anywhere in this though.

[deft helm]

I say we add "gender identity" to the list to make things more clear. This is just another one of those rules that could easily be loopholed, and not in a good way.

[mental tree]

That's damn exactly what that entire paragraph just sounded like

[bitter yarrow]

Why is your first reaction to a concern to deflect and blame the accuser based on your own feelings of the matter rather than listening and working through the problem?

[bitter yarrow]

I agree with this, it’s a simple fix.

[mental tree]

Not my feelings lmfao I was asked about it in dms

And how am I blaming the accuser if there's apparently no accuser

[bitter yarrow]

The way you are acting comes off to me as quite reactionary and defensive, and frankly unconstructive as you have added nothing really to positively add to the conversation.

[mental tree]

Which it was clearly an accusation by the way you've said it a million times in the past both here and on other servers

[bitter yarrow]

We aren’t talking about the past though, we are quite literally talking about now where there was supposed to be a full-scale reform of the way the moderation team approaches things, is it an irrational thing to expect a supposedly reformed team with reformed rules to actually try and address a loophole in the system that is present now?

[mental tree]

There was a full scale reform, a few words missing from paragraphs upon paragraphs of rules and other related things is not going to create a loophole

Those rules were practically written by a singular person who has a lot more on her plate then just that

[bitter yarrow]

Why is there only one person writing those rules though?

[mental tree]

Because she's an administrator

She doesn't come up with all the rules, the mod team does as a whole but someone has to write them

And it's a lot of writing

[bitter yarrow]

Even with that; I still fail to see how editing into the already posted discrimination list “gender identity” which can take upwards of 2 button clicks and 10 seconds to be an issue.

[mental tree]

It's not an issue

And it will be done shortly

[bitter yarrow]

Great, thank you.

[tender raft]

lol

[rough wigeon]

The way the rule writing went was we had a meeting to discuss various topics (this was back in March) including the rules (the rules were a primary topic), then the rules were written by Ethan and they had to go through a motion to be enacted
I can see why you brought the issue up Sam, and that is something that should be made more clear and I'll amend that rule shortly.

[bitter yarrow]

Thank you very much Miami, appreciate it! 💚

[covert prairie]

why is it worse?

[craggy nymph]

i dont think its worse overall, it includes the points of each code colour, which yours didnt, the slowmode times are more reasonable, shouldnt have 0 second slowmode because then spammers could spam more easily, only thing which id say isnt as good is the shadow of each colour used compared to the background and text colour

[tender raft]

yea the actual codes themselves are better (thank god) but the design is just noisy and kinda hard to look at idk maybe just me

[silver cloak]

nah i also think the design is uglier lol

[tender raft]

lol

the background is just too much imo

[mental tree]

the title text being in center format even though it's on the left side of the image:

[tender raft]

OH MY GOD THAT IRKS ME SO BAD

i didnt notice that until now

[uneven mountain]

So I thought it was discussed that people who derail chat with busting comments will be dealt with more seriously but it seems to still continue without any warnings or measures. This also results in the trolls joining them and then completely derailing chat.

[livid halo]

^ to add to this as well, NATL has increasingly become a lot of history talk. Which becomes distracting or even “misleading” for those who don’t have context

[mental tree]

Ok I'll put out a notice that anyone continuing to do so will be automatically warned/muted, if it happens just ping me and it'll be dealt with

[uneven mountain]

Sounds good, might want to pin it as well so that trolls can’t use the excuse of not seeing it

[coarse nimbus]

no more warnings

go straight to strikes

that's the only way to get NATL chat in line

[mental tree]

im not muting people for minor offences

[rocky spindle]

suggestion:
make oscae trial mod again and teach him how to make proper decisions

[abstract abyss]

uh oh pre chaos

shit is about to hit the fan

[abstract abyss]

great idea

[wintry path]

Literally provide the message magik said in the logs, and a clarification. That’s all I ask

[covert prairie]

why did something happen?

[abstract abyss]

scroll down from here things got worse from here #chit-chat message

[uneven mountain]

Holy shit that was bad

[tender raft]

if there was no actual slur there should be no warning

period

i feel bad for magik man i really do

[livid halo]

There was no context on if it was used to someone or used in a different way. And without them sharing what was said it’s hard to know if it was warranted

[livid halo]

At least from my POV, I didn’t see the message. So from my ignorance of the message

[tender raft]

none of it matters if he didnt even use the actual word

[deft helm]

I think for future reference, warnings need to be worded in a way that identifies the rule broken rather than just "you know what you did".

[tender raft]

^^^ that was extremely unprofessional too

[livid halo]

Agreed

[tender raft]

we need new mod leaders

we are taking steps in the wrong direction here

nothing against oscar - i love that guy to pieces but i think they jumped the gun adding him back so quickly

[livid halo]

There should be maturity/age requirements

rather than a chat GPT generated mod application 😂

[deft helm]

I mean, if I was a trial mod and I worded a warning in an unprofessional manner, it would have been an automatic fail.

[tender raft]

^

well it doesnt help when the mod leaders are incredibly disconnected from their own team

half if not more of the mods only hold the position for the status it comes with

[livid halo]

Oh definitely lol

[deft helm]

agG made a good point when he said that "some people apply for just the mod badge and power trip instead of actually having the intention to improve moderation in the server and make it a better place." And I couldn't agree more.

[mental tree]

Correct, I had to go back and change it

Moderation doesn't seem to be taking the logs seriously enough

We have them for a reason 🙄

[mental tree]

Oh they do

0 doubt about it it's a running issue

[celest flame]

exactly

[abstract abyss]

can you even demote a mod to a trial mod?

[covert prairie]

no

[deft helm]

This exposes the thing where some moderators are too casual when it comes to warnings.

[torn spindle]

There used to be one for maturity

Dunno why thats gone

[restive shell]

maturity is still taken in effect when accepting mod applications.

[covert prairie]

there is and some participant roles were removed bc of this

[uneven mountain]

I think he meant for mod applications not participants

[covert prairie]

Oh we do take that into account ofc . There isn't an age requirement but there sure is a maturity one

[ionic shuttle]

Age vs maturity is a tough measurement . You can have some 13 year olds that are very mature and and some 16 to 18 year olds that act like they are 4 or 5 ..so age requirement vs maturity can be a double edged sword at times

[covert prairie]

that's why we just have a maturity requirement

[uneven mountain]

Can i just suggest that during code red, mods should be more ruthless with warnings and mutes? A lot of trolls barely care about warnings (to the point where they are gloating to the mod on being warned) and trying to go easy on them doesn’t generally help anyone and only makes chat more chaotic.

[native carbon]

I'll make sure this is known

[lusty osprey]

just summon me if need be, I'll gladly be ruthless

[uneven mountain]

Yea I know you and Rev are generally very strict but this kinda goes back to consistency between moderation and atleast in code red, all mods imo should be going hard on infractions otherwise chats will continue to spiral into chaos.

[lusty osprey]

oh well aware

[mental tree]

NATL isn't moderated enough I agree and I can't be there to moderate it all the time so the fact it gets less strict is disappointing

[gray ivy]

On that note, in light of a certain EWRC statement of Idalia

Before mods take action against someone for giving misinformation, can it please be verified every time that the statement was indeed misinformation before action is taken? Even if a statement made 20 times is false, it could be true the 21st time.

This is also a suggestion for every member of the community apart from non-mods to not immediately make conclusions that a statement is misinformation before it is verified/refuted. I myself was one of those members that did so, apologetically.

Also yeah code reds need to be more consistently strict

Also imo during code reds, idk if anyone has the power to do this, but certain emoji reactions should be banned during code reds like the ones that cannot be used helpfully in any context whatsoever

Like and some more

[mental tree]

Not a feature, unfortunately

Granted most of the reaction emojis in F13 are extremely overused, cause problems, and are just downright bad

[torn spindle]

Yknow I exist lol

I can add and remove emojis

[quick atlas]

And yet the community like them so

[gray ivy]

No I personally think emoji reactions are better kept

Especially in times when slowmode can get painfully long, it’s much better to reply to simple yes/no questions with Xs or checks, starboard funny/important things, etc.

[tender raft]

Give @tacit schooner participant. 🙏

also

for the love of GOD

remove maturity from participant requirements

its ridiculous

sanj not being allowed status because he says "die"

like hello??? what is this fucking preschool

[craggy nymph]

there is reasons why it exists, participants are suppose to be somewhat role models within community who are knowledgeable, but dont also joke alot, because if some unknowledgeable person saw someone with participant making a bunch of jokes because its unclassified (which sanj did sometimes) then if they wouldnt get jokes (and alot of people dont get jokes) then they might believe it

[craggy nymph]

and i dont think this is the only reason, he posted a couple fake advisories, which tricked alot of people

[gray ivy]

I don’t hold a respectable position in this server but neither of those reasons are valid

[tender raft]

cool.

thats an issue why?

[gray ivy]

Anyone with the slightest bit of a brain should realize the joking nature of people sometimes

[tender raft]

it was unclassified too

like?

this place is so strict and for what 😭

[gray ivy]

Depends on how ridiculously fake they were, when they were posted, and in what channel to begin with

[tender raft]

so strict in THE WRONG places

and too lenient elsewhere

[gray ivy]

If it was posted in fake news that just invalidates the whole reason lmao, but even if not then people should be able to read the room and know they’re fake 💀

[craggy nymph]

there against the rules, one of them i think put like a 10% aoi saying it was 70% or something

it was posted in actual tracking channels too

[gray ivy]

Unless if it was during a code yellow+ or smth then I guess that’s understandable

[gray ivy]

What was TCOS code, what channel, and how did people react overall

[gray ivy]

The rules don’t have to be followed 100% of the time otherwise this is a dictatorship

[craggy nymph]

if rules arent followed 100% of the time, your saying its ok to break the rules, not once but like 3 times in this case

[craggy nymph]

idk TCOS code, but this was the fake TWO posted (and in reality it was 0%)

[gray ivy]

It’s about a remnant low in the middle of nowhere are you serious

[tender raft]

ok cool

[craggy nymph]

the reaction to it everyone believed it

[tender raft]

who gives a shit LMAO

its funny

[craggy nymph]

but if your a participant, you really shouldnt be sending fake things like that

its not funny if you fall for it as everyone did at the time

[gray ivy]

I can totally understand if a fake advisory was made about, for example, TS Idalia RIed to C2 in 6 hours

[tender raft]

yes and that was in a code orange+ for most of its life too

not an unclassified pacific fish

[gray ivy]

It’s about a remnant low in the middle of nowhere. If he does this excessively frequently then maybe that’s a problem, but if this happened only a few times then that harms literally no one

[mental tree]

Participant does factor in maturity yes

Posting a fake advisory in an unclassified channel in the middle of the central pacific can not judge maturity

Maturity is not measured by one-off incidents

I don't think people realize you can also have too much maturity

[livid halo]

Bro if u can’t have some fun u become militaristic. Which this sever alrdy is basically

Life threatening or land threatening that’s different of course, no one argues that.

[coarse nimbus]

Find another system for code red storms, because we've lost three valuable chat related conversations now (Judy, Kevin, and Kirogi) and the F13 Data Analysis Team's progress on the 2022-23 SHEM season reanalysis has been hampered by loss of operational data from these chats

And please find a solution as soon as possible

[wicked ore]

Yeah some people post really valuable information in the chats, stuff that can often be used and searched with no problem via the discord search tool. But that’s obviously a problem if the place it was posted in no longer exists. Maybe make use of the elsewhere channel, or make multiple elsewhere channels for specific basins to be used as an automatic default when the main basin chat must be used for an ongoing threat.

[craggy nymph]

even just using the thread feature would work i think

you can still see threads from when we used them in WPAC

and no-one complains about them clogging up stuff and things

[coarse nimbus]

the biggest problem in particular is real time observations

[rough wigeon]

Older threads have even gotten deleted

[coarse nimbus]

because many of these are not archived

[craggy nymph]

not the ones in WPAC

[rough wigeon]

We just need better communication on which forums we're archiving

[coarse nimbus]

There has to be a better way in dealing with these

[rough wigeon]

I still don't fully know why the chats for Judy and Kevin got deleted, the mod who deleted them never responded when we asked

[coarse nimbus]

The loss of Judy's obs in particular hurts the most

[craggy nymph]

I wouldnt delete any of them

[coarse nimbus]

because half of that storm's BT is driven by them

And yes I would recommend never deleting any of them

there must be some sort of archive bot that archives old chats in a safe storage space

[craggy nymph]

and also out of any forum you could delete, 2 invests in a forum arent deleted (for 98W and 99W during talim) but kirogi was?

if there is any forums you delete, its when its only for an invest

and even then i stilll wouldnt agree with the decision

[coarse nimbus]

Also I did some read up, and there are no limits on archived posts/threads

[rough wigeon]

I'd imagine the removing comes to try and keep the forum channel less cluttered and more easy to sort through
Though I have added several tags to help with sorting, and I'm sure we can add more

[coarse nimbus]

so we don't really need to delete finished forums

[craggy nymph]

archived forums go to the bottom of the list anyway, so i dont see the issue

[rough wigeon]

Does that mention any restriction on forum tags?

[coarse nimbus]

none

[rough wigeon]

Oh no restrictions
That's handy

[coarse nimbus]

So here's my suggestion

no need to delete any archived forums

at all

It's fine because even if it gets crowded, there's a giant search toolbar right at the top

[native carbon]

We constantly monitor for potential new participants and I'm gonna be honest, we are quite strict on what is determined to be very good knowledge. Jagger imo is not quite there yet, and it would help if you can expand and tell us why it would be a good idea bc I may be wrong here but Im judging off what I have seen, would be nice.

[native carbon]

And believe it or not that isnt the reason really. We've actually recognized his decent knowledge but we're wanting to wait a little longer to be confident he is definitely good enough, ideally people that stand out a lot with their knowledge is a good sign they might need the role

[torn spindle]

SanJ is a very different situation

Considering I talk with him on a semi regular basis and knowing him he thinks he isnt there yet himself

He has been considered multiple times now though to become purple but yeah. Just a little more to go

And people please stop demonising the moderation team. If anything, that behaviour in itself is childish and not something adults should be saying to and about others.

How would you feel if you tried to moderate and everyone keeps saying such things about how you moderate whilst you know it is not true.

Think about that.

I do not think highly of this moderation team as I myself see a lot of flaws still that should be worked on until they are out of the system. But in this case I am getting kind of fed up by all the bullshit being spread around.

[native carbon]

Ty alex

[uneven mountain]

Yea agree with you, some of the mods atleast are trying their best to make this server a better place so a lot of this complaining of it is pretty tiring.

It was also very frustrating to see when Rev correctly banned a troll in chat yesterday and there were a group of people rallying to defend the troll just because they like to create drama in chat

[craggy nymph]

rev also deleted a forum which had actually important information that could be used later for reanalysis since alot of data is put in those chats

[torn spindle]

not entirely sure but might be possible to restore it via audit logs

I cannot access them but it might be possible perhaps

[uneven mountain]

Threads in discord is pretty new so hiccups will happen along the way

[craggy nymph]

forums* and there about a year and a half old

[uneven mountain]

It is unfair to put the blame on it for someone accidentally getting it wrong once

[craggy nymph]

its happened a few times, but they said that because kirogi "got annihlated" it "wasnt worth archiving" and also Saola was still code red so it broke protocol and was added back just hours later in an entirely new thread

and rev the other day also broke the same protocol by making a thread rather then forum, but at that time i wouldnt blame them as it was the first time they had done it

and also if there not archiving any forums it should be the ones on invests, but no they did it to a likely typhoon

[uneven mountain]

A lot of work goes into moderating a place like this, especially when they are trying to make changes happen, personally i think mistakes can happen and as long as they are working to fix it, it’s not an issue

Maybe we can have a role which works to manage forums and threads so that moderation team can focus on the moderation part

That should help everyone imo

[craggy nymph]

also doesnt help that when i asked a mod the reason why it was deleted (before i knew the actual reason), i was given a different reason that wasnt the real reason

i was told because they cant archive too many forums

which is an absolute lie because theres no limit

there is only 6 forums

as well

there is also a big search tool

and the archived ones go to the bottom so it shouldnt be hard to find active ones for active systems

[native carbon]

I've tried. I dont think you can at all even with me as off duty. But do a quick google search see what u can find perhaps

[native carbon]

I dont know man and Im sorry, we'll make sure that doesnt happen again

It was stupid

Rev did it for some reason which ill look to, but yeah stuff like that shouldnt happen

[uneven mountain]

It’s lessons learnt imo and as long as steps are taken to prevent it, we can hopefully move on from it

But i still think there should be a role for managing forums and threads

Mods have so much shit going on in active periods that it would make sense to let someone else handle that

[native carbon]

I think if we have enough mods eventually all should be fine

Or we could let the participants manage them

I dont think that would be a bad idea

[silver cloak]

precious data from judy and kevin were completely obliterated which makes no sense....

wasnt there like a SWIO chat at some point too

i mean, swio thread

[native carbon]

Yeah and it's a shame but there is very little that can be done about that and all can be done is move on, learn, and not do something like that again

[silver cloak]

hope nothing like kirogi happens again

all stuff relating to its mere C1 status has evaporated.... 🗿

[native carbon]

Yeah we'll make sure we coordinate more on thread management

[silver cloak]

overall jsut dont delete threads theres gonna be stuff in there and someone may need it at some point

i mean

FORUMs

[uneven mountain]

Regarding this, you would probably need more participants especially active ones if it were to be properly implemented

[silver cloak]

Omg this is driving me insane they r ltierally the same thin g

[uneven mountain]

They are pretty much

[silver cloak]

there probably arent enough WPAC participants for this

actually there probably arent enough WPAC mods in general

[native carbon]

I dont think we would many tho. There are some mods around able to do it too so its not like we need a whole new team

[native carbon]

Im around there so effectively +1 since the new wave of mods

And when I mean i'm there, I mean consistently

[silver cloak]

a lot of the time wpac goes unmoderated so idk.....

not all the time but just often

[native carbon]

Maybe in local time sure, im asleep and generally rn im off duty so u dont see me as often

[silver cloak]

yes in local time

[craggy nymph]

i believe yes

[native carbon]

We would definitely need more local mods

[silver cloak]

theres actually only like 2 mods thats actually in asia

jeremy and jackson idk if theres more

[craggy nymph]

part of the point of participant is they are active, so i dont think being active would be an issue

[craggy nymph]

kathy

[restive shell]

adding onto the participant discussion earlier, i concur with Adler that there is plenty of work to be done with participants and advanced roles. i have been working on a proposal to make the #met-room visible to all members of the server so they can read through the advanced discussions and learn from the information presented. this change would also encourage participants to engage in conversations there again. additionally, I've been planning to grant chat immunity to all chats for participants, along with pin privileges and the ability to create forums/threads.

i can't personally speak on who needs adding and whom needs removing, but i have plenty of ideas that would certainly happen if this overhaul were to go through.

[silver cloak]

oh ya forgor

[silver cloak]

to make the 🔒 No Access visible

[native carbon]

Certainly in support, if only i could take part in that discussion but i kinda cant lmao

[native carbon]

Kathy and srijan, but note Kathy is extremely busy and so is jeremy at times, so u would be at 2 which are able to probably moderate on a large enough scale

[silver cloak]

isnt srijan nio

[craggy nymph]

NIO is still asia

[native carbon]

Bruh thats still asia

Lmao

[silver cloak]

ok yeah that makes sense ims tupud

[native carbon]

all cool lol

[silver cloak]

because srijan doesnt moderate wpac that leaves 1 🤪

[native carbon]

Oh shit yeah im an idiot

And not often does jackson come around there either so that leaves 0 🙃

[silver cloak]

berm and azuri........ 🗿

i would apply for mod if i wasnt so stupud

[native carbon]

Ur welcome to give it a go

[uneven mountain]

You don’t need to tell me that lol, i am probably one of the most active ones here but not everyone is very active

That’s why i suggested that we add more as long as they meet the requirements

[silver cloak]

dont trust myself 🙃

[craggy nymph]

well the existing criteria prevents there from being too many more

[deft helm]

I probably would mod too if I wasn’t so hesitant on modding.

[uneven mountain]

I am in the same boat tbh, i have thought about it but i don’t know if I will be able to do a good job of it

[craggy nymph]

id be a mod but i dont have 2fa (which i would get but i dont have a phone either)

[silver cloak]

i do have 2fa

ive been a mod before but i just dont trust myself still 🙃

[restive shell]

the participant review back in last month was clearly rushed. and i am planning to change the definition of participants on what makes them one. strict maturity shouldn't be required and i would like to make the role not just a mod-popularity role lol

[uneven mountain]

Agree on both of those points

[lusty osprey]

Just making it clear here

• Maturity will remain criteria to be a participant. If they're gonna be representing the knowledgeable people of the server, they also need to be reliable. Instances of those choosing to break the rules or post misinformation or whatever will cause the reliability in the information to be lost, no matter how good they sound.
• Participants will not be given perms to create forums or pin messages. Just ask one of the mods to do it, giving perms tends to grant more than just that usually leading on to problems as a result. After all it should be the mods keeping up with that stuff because if stuff isn't being pinned, that looks bad on us and thats something for us to look into.

However making the met room public (however only visible for those not participants) is something we can look into doing

[mental tree]

It did not, actually. Any actual information important to the storm would be located in https://discord.com/channels/270341304624349185/1144367892218003466. Kirogi was originally part of this forum for the majority of its life before it was separated and by this time was dead

[rough wigeon]

Well, they already can pin lol (as long as they have 2FA enabled)
That’s a perm associated with bypassing slowmode

[mental tree]

I did not break protocol as that thread contained only AOIs that the chat overwhelmingly wanted in a thread. It wasn't until one of those became an active system that we had to move it into the forums

[craggy nymph]

it peaked a couple hours after the forum was made

[craggy nymph]

why did in the past it have forums for aois not threads

for example 2 invests were put in forum during talim

[mental tree]

And it still would've taken place in the other forum or even the channel because there was no one to guide anyone into the correct forum

[craggy nymph]

and still think its a bit stupid to be deleting forums rather then archive

[mental tree]

I'm not archiving a 70 message thread that has the majority of the messages be "RIP this storm"

The archive feature was to allow people to look back through conversations and see what the community was doing at the time. It was not to store valuable information

[craggy nymph]

it certainly had more then 70 messages

[mental tree]

It had 70 messages

And yes, I would know because I scanned through (which only took me about a minute)

[rough wigeon]

I didn’t see how many it had but I wouldn’t imagine it had much
When the forum was made the storm was dying I believe, past it’s typhoon peak

[craggy nymph]

no it peaked slightly after

also it was deleted when WPAC was still code red in the main chat for saola, so it still should of been in forum either way

because just a couple hours later it got its own forum again (which after another couple of hours before a combined forum)

[mental tree]

Regardless, there was nothing important in there enough worth archiving and that's that

[craggy nymph]

you could say the same about other forums

[lusty osprey]

(This won't happen again, forums are easily searchable anyway so this isn't like threads where everything gets cluttered easily.)

[craggy nymph]

like this one

[lusty osprey]

(No more deletions will take place on forums no matter how useless they seem.)

[rough wigeon]

Ahh yeah I see that now

[gray ivy]

a

[covert prairie]

such a great and informative suggestion

[gray ivy]

Thank you!

[deft helm]

I think moderation needs to be consistent when it comes to warnable offenses all throughout the tracking channels. You have #716216186685227028 going off-topic when there's legit no storm to track and people complaining about the 240 hour rule, which all started when Trin got onto a moderator by saying, "It's not my fault.".

[livid halo]

Make it clear in the rules about restricting photosensitive gifs/videos. And give a CLEAR and defined example of what is restricted.

Any one here could easily have fallen victim to a warn about that. I do not think folks should be warned for things not defined in the rules.

[tender raft]

perhpas put an age requirement for even joining this server, because clearly its overrun with 13-15yo who have no sliver of social intelligence.

[fickle scroll]

what should the age requirement be

[lusty osprey]

It's common sense to not try to injure someone????

[tender raft]

it is official, because its in the TOS

[lusty osprey]

Or trigger issues they may have without warning???

[livid halo]

You’re making this more extreme

[fickle scroll]

i mean it didnt really look triggerish

[glad halo]

but apparently theres been more then one person who doesnt get that

so clearly there needs to be a rule

[tender raft]

was it malicious in nature or was it just a rapidly strobing gif

[restive shell]

since f13 is a partner and community server, we can't higher the age requirement unfortunately

[fickle scroll]

also you cant expect people to follow a rule that does not exist

[restive shell]

^

[lusty osprey]

Rapidly strobing, was why it was only a warning

[frozen rapids]

As the son of someone with photosensitive epilepsy (or something similar), I feel like you are right.

[mental tree]

White text on a black background with "/s" written on it that was flashing a bit

[livid halo]

It wasn’t, and multiple people agreed it was not strobing enough

[restive shell]

it was NOT rapidly strobing lol

[glad halo]

yeah

[lusty osprey]

It was quick enough

[restive shell]

i asked multiple people

[tender raft]

Xavier that warning was in poor taste im not gonna lie

[livid halo]

No lol

[glad halo]

yeah

[lusty osprey]

It wasn't

[fickle scroll]

rapidly strobing is a huge overstatement

[knotty hearth]

I agree with Xavier... I feel like the GIF could've been spoilered with a content warning for flashing images as it could've hurt someone. Though I do agree it should be stated in the rules for the future.

[lusty osprey]

Thank you

Someone understands finally

[glad halo]

person who has had seizures multiple times before themslves saying that it didnt even trigger them

[covert prairie]

Age limit for this server is 13 and will stay 13

[fickle scroll]

some of yall too sensitive especially when no one had a problem with it. if someone did have a problem that would be different

[tender raft]

a verbal reminder should be fine, actual punishment for a one-off offense that isnt even in the rules is kinda jumping the gun

[fickle scroll]

of course they should be called out by a warning seems too far

[lusty osprey]

Again this was why it was only a WARNING. Most times that shit gets mutes at the very least

[glad halo]

yes

[livid halo]

You’re expecting too much from a discord server one. And aswell in large other servers you can find gifs as the one posted here. Make it clear, or suck it up is how I see it.

It was not in the rules. Therefor should not be warned.

[glad halo]

and the person left because of it

[restive shell]

you can't spoiler gifs, discord removed that feature for some reason

[deft helm]

To be fair, it falls under common sense. It caused a ruckus.

[lusty osprey]

No

[covert prairie]

really?

[knotty hearth]

Wait you can't spoiler GIFS??? I didn't realise that was removed

[restive shell]

ye

[lusty osprey]

I expect basic human decency

[mental tree]

Well the gif itself didn't cause a ruckus, the action taken against it did

Nobody would have noticed it otherwise lol

[tender raft]

also, a lot of mods wouldnt warn for that either. this alludes to the inconsistency within the team still

[fickle scroll]

you expect people to not post gifs?

[livid halo]

A gif that flashes is not a human tragedy wtf lmao

[covert prairie]

that's so dumb

[lusty osprey]

Wouldn't have been a ruckus if it was agreed to in an attempt to be consistent with previous punishments for the same actions

[glad halo]

yes, and plus the "sending gifs that may cause seizures" isnt a rule so a warning shouldnt have been taken for a non-rule

[fickle scroll]

yeah none of this would have happened if a verbal reminder would have happened instead

[glad halo]

then again idrk much

[lusty osprey]

Yall want punishments for one thing then different for the same thing but then back to something lesser for the same thing

Like come the fuck on

[tender raft]

the fact the guy left the damn server because of it

[fickle scroll]

xavier litteraly told him too leave

[glad halo]

exactly

[lusty osprey]

I told him to leave the chat for a bit

[tender raft]

are you serious

[knotty hearth]

On my side it says he's still in here. Maybe I need to refresh-?

[lusty osprey]

Not to leave the damn server

[deft helm]

First, the guy was warned for misinformation. Then it was the strobing GIF that causes headaches.

[livid halo]

Everyone knew what he meant

[lusty osprey]

[glad halo]

@uneven mountain are you photosensitive btw

[lusty osprey]

I thought he meant as in leave the convo

[glad halo]

sure you told him to just leave the chat xavier, sure

[lusty osprey]

The amount of people who've said "I'm just gonna leave" to refer to leaving the chat is many many ._.

[livid halo]

Why are there mod white knights in here, if yall are cool with it then spend time somewhere else lol

[fickle scroll]

i do think this was a confusion as i thought the same but it shouldnt have been said by a mod either way

[tender raft]

Misinfo warning was appropriate. however it could have also been chocked up to a lack of proper knowledge which makes the case that the mod team isnt welcoming to lesser knowledgeable people

[lusty osprey]

There's a reason I said to reconsider what he was saying to try and get him out of the grave he was digging

[glad halo]

its more likely that the guy didnt have much knowledge as the person later on said that "alt? do you mean atl?"

[lusty osprey]

He chose not to

[mental tree]

A reminder would've sufficed just fine, honestly. When it comes to random one-off things like that just delete it and remind why gifs like that may not be allowed

[livid halo]

Very much agree here. He probably had no idea the unreliability

[frozen rapids]

If you were asking me (which I don't think you wrre,) then no, I'm not.

[glad halo]

??? i was very clearly asking eg

[tender raft]

the misinfo case wasnt blatant and thus warning was a stretch

[lusty osprey]

And this is why the moderation is so inconsistent, no wonder no one is supposed to know what to do for anything because we change what punishment we give for the same damn actions

[frozen rapids]

You weren't asking me? Okay

[livid halo]

There was no reason to not explain to him why he should reconsider and explain the lack of knowledge he may have had. But you chose to not, and basic verbal warn him

[tender raft]

then make a fucking mod guideline for gods sake

[mental tree]

This is the first time I've ever seen a mod give a blatant warning for something like this lol

[tender raft]

one of yall needs to step up and do it

[glad halo]

says punishment is inconsistent
multiple people telling him that just a reminder wouldve been fine

[restive shell]

we have no guidelines in place lol

[tender raft]

THATS YOUR FUCKING ISSUE THEN

OMG

FIX THAT

[mental tree]

Based on discussion from other moderators they would also have just sent a reminder

[restive shell]

which is very stupid

we do

[tender raft]

who is the moderator in charge

[livid halo]

Yes but this is Xavier we’re talking about lol

[restive shell]

i've been planning to make a guideline proposal but as a newly joined regular moderator it would be difficult

[knotty hearth]

I don't know what this adds but I have photophobia & have to wear transition lenses & use dark mode on every device I have because of it (my eyes are sensitive to various lights)

[livid halo]

bro the fact Igave this place money at some point 😭

[tender raft]

that fucking sucks

[fickle scroll]

the guy hasnt left yet

[livid halo]

fr fr

[knotty hearth]

Yeah it's saying dude is still in the server, I don't think he actually left

[glad halo]

yeah. ive been trying to apply for contributor though for like 2 months now

[mental tree]

Guidelines can only get you so far and no situation in the same. Moderators need to be quick and have wit to handle situations appropriately and know how to handle what happens afterwards

I expect all on this team to be able to come up with solutions swiftly but that doesn't seem to be the case

[livid halo]

No it’s not at all

Everyone has their own guidelines

[mental tree]

Never in my 6 years across multiple servers have I ever seen a team that needed set guidelines

[livid halo]

So you get strict ass Xavier to Matthew (love him)

[glad halo]

i think joshua from chit chat summed it up the best
he said to the person who got warned "you are not the problem, the problem is how the rules/mod structure is"

[fickle scroll]

bro what the guy is posting in chit chat is making me feel really bad for him

[livid halo]

It’s a prime example of the chaotic nature of the mod team though and the extreme lack of guidance

[glad halo]

there should atleast be a general rule of thumb for mods

[tender raft]

lets be real here, most of the people on the team should not be on the damn team

period

[fickle scroll]

i feel like no matter who the mods are the same problems come up

[mental tree]

There is such thing as being too lenient, which I'm sure many of us know, but there is also such thing as being too strict and I don't think that is discussed enough

[glad halo]

#OssiDidNothingWrong

[glad halo]

xavier is most certainly on the too strict side

[lusty osprey]

False

[livid halo]

Rev and fridge recently are prime examples of consistent moderation. And this is what I would look for from a moderation team

[deft helm]

You think Xavier is strict? When I was a mod in multiple servers, I was much worse on the strict side.

[glad halo]

whatevs, i agree with alex here

[mental tree]

Granted a one-off situation like that should've been handled in the commands channel undoubtedly

[fickle scroll]

the guy just left no😭

[glad halo]

#OssiDidNothingWrong

[mental tree]

When it isn't active chat disruption that needs to be attended to it should always be handled elsewhere

[glad halo]

getting who?

[fickle scroll]

i cant believe this made him leave smh, wasnt even his fault

[tender raft]

honestly, i think Ethan is unfit for the admin role, hes done absolutely nothing in the main server in some time

[glad halo]

xavier after making someone leave the server for something that shouldve only been a reminder

[mental tree]

You can't dm people unless you're either friends with them or share a server and both have dms on

[livid halo]

Very much agree here

[fickle scroll]

#OssiDidNothingWrong

[glad halo]

#OssiDidNothingWrong

[glad halo]

yes, ive only seen ethan in like vc's n stuff

[livid halo]

Seemingly doesn’t assist in moderation or guidance

[knotty hearth]

I think Xavier meant well... I feel like a restructuring to the rules could be done to help ensure this doesn't happen in the future. Add to the rules, make them more clear. Maybe change warnings to verbal reminders if they weren't done in malicious intent.

[lusty osprey]

It's been the case for ages now