Offense taken = objective harm done?

[solar hornet]

I don't know how many others enjoy philosophizing as I do about things... but my recent thoughts are about why it is that people take offense at things. I am most definitely not saying there's not good reason to take offense, or feel offended, in cases when it might be appropriate. Quite the contrary -- for I personally am offended (and reasonably so in my perspective) at the use of vulgar language- typically thought of more particularly as cursing- but could also include the use of other language put together in a way that is also considered vulgar.

I guess in that vein, the next question should be what is it that makes something considered vulgar. In the case of curse words, or slurs, it so happens to be in our culture that there are certain words that have come to have a certain intended offense as part of their meaning- or at least a high degree of sharpness that comes across in their usage.

Why do people curse? There could be various reasons. Are there 'good' reasons to curse? My position is that there are not. If anyone cares to try to convince me otherwise, I'd be open to hearing your argument(s). Of course I must disclose that if your reply includes cursing, or otherwise offensive language, then I might just be inclined to simply ignore you. Maybe that depends. But let us all put on our thinking caps and let the critical thinking about how we communicate with each other begin!

[solar hornet]

Searching my old posts is fun sometimes. Haha

[half sequoia]

swearing improves tolerance towards pain. cursing initiates an emotional response that triggers a stress reaction, leading to pain reduction.

it also indicates a level of social intelligence, choosing when and how you use curse words shows that the user knows when it's appropriate.

[lime trench]

Swearing is a good way to express emotion, and you perhaps need some words to be more offensive than others and words that ''breaks the norm'' to be able to do that. If we normalized the usage of curse words even more, they wouldn't become as powerful. The reason slurs have become more and more vulgar over time is probably that everyone tries to 1 up the other person and thus use more ''powerful'' words to do so. I don't think there's a reason to be offended by words that are solely used to express emotion, like the F word. It's when you use discriminatory words directed at a specific culture or group that you should have a right to be offended.

Also I think the world as a whole would be a lot more boring if everybody talked like scientists 💀

[solar hornet]

So there could be short term benefit to it, of providing an outlet to put all your immediate pain and stress into. I see that- but I think even better would to be to learn the self discipline required to internally control your emotion and your speech. This would help you in the future to not do or say things you regret.

[solar hornet]

Seeing it this way depends on how often and in what situations a person uses curse words- but we need to also think about whether there even are any situations when it's appropriate in the first place.

[solar hornet]

Your last sentence, I can agree with. But would personally not apply it to justifying use of curse words. 🙂

I can see the use of, and even the need for, stronger language to be used sometimes. But such can be done without resorting to certain words that are actually considered vulgar or hateful or disrespectful. That's probably my biggest gripe against it, is the intention (or even the knowledge that it will happen) for a feeling of disrespect or hatred to be to communicated.

Discriminatory words are also harmful, but for a different reason. A reason which is easier to see or understand, I think. But the reason for curse words being harmful is not just because of tearing down people directly, but also the tearing down of ideas or concepts that people consider sacred- i.e., deserving of respect and honor. That unfortunately happens simply through the word being uttered, due to a combination of their technical definition, and an intentional vulgarity and disrespect to be associated with that concept or idea. That vulgarity and disrespect is actually an integral part of the usage or utterance of the word- I would say even part of the definition of it.

[half sequoia]

i was more thinking along the lines of a woman giving birth, for example. i think her least worry is saying something she regrets. and “doing”, well, cursing is more saying than it is doing. you have seemed to conflate cursing with an action like harming someone physically.

[solar hornet]

It's more understandable for a woman giving birth. I can give ya that. But perhaps it still applies a little bit- as hard as it is, and I being a man who doesn't understand, I can only speculate- but the question is there- is she still able to exercise self control, and have it benefit her more in the long term?

I guess I just included "doing" because saying is a part of doing. Words definitely affect people- sometimes even more than physical actions affect people. But yes, you're right that saying things is different than other types of actions.

[lime trench]

I did not understand a single sentence in the last paragraph but I did understand the first two. As it looks like today curse words have been normalized to the point where it's hard getting your opinion to be heard if you don't use them, but yes I agree that they shouldn't be used to communicate disrespect or hatred. But I don't think curse words are the underlying problem in that case. There are many ways to communicate disrespect and hatred and curse words are just one of them. The problem lies in the person using the slur, not in the slur itself.

When used in the right context and when not directed at someone else with the intention to hurt them, cursing should definitely be allowed. For example saying ''Oh that fucking hurt'' or ''Omg that bird is so fucking fast wtf''

In these situations the word is not directed at someone else and is solely used as a form of expression, and I see no reason why that shouldn't be allowed

[half sequoia]

many people react to pain differently and have different pain tolerances. that being said, contractions during childbirth can get excruciatingly painful, lasts for hours, and is never completely forgotten long after. a temporary relief from that i’d argue, is better than a philosophical realization that you shouldn’t have helped yourself in the first place, because you couldn’t “control yourself” in the face of pain and danger.

[solar hornet]

True, there are more ways to communicate disrespect and hatred than just using curse words. But I still think the disrespect and vulgarity is still an integral part of the meaning of those words. Perhaps language will evolve to where that might not be true anymore, but I don't think there's a good purpose in continuing to use those words, if there is still harm being done by using them.

In your examples of just trying to get your point across to someone, I think a person should still try to do so using other words which don't have a negative side effect.

In that last parargraph that I didn't explain well enough, I was trying to talk about how the integral part of the meaning of curses words is to show disrespect towards things that people hold sacred, such as in the case of the F word referring to the act of having sex, but in a way that makes that act seem like just a common thing, not worthy of being placed in a holy or sacred context, but talked about in a way that degrades the sanctity of that act, when using that word.

People use that word when they want to make light of the act, to talk about it in jest. This offends people's sensibilities to things they hold sacred within their moral world viewpoints. This is important to people because we understand that exposing ourselves to that sort of talk actually affects our own moral perspectives in a negative way. People may not agree with our moral point of view, but I think it's still everyone's responsibility to respect other people's sincere and reasonable moral perspectives, and that means not using language that purposely degrades those sincere and reasonable moral perspectives.

[solar hornet]

I hear you on that point. Although if the woman has practiced controlling her speech beforehand, it would of course be easier to control it in the moment of her great pain. But I think I probably wouldn't fault or judge anyone who curses only moment of great pain during child birth. But hopefully you also understand I was referring to long term consequences, specifically of being able to control oneself in the future- which is a very practical thing- not just a philosophical exercise.

[lime trench]

I think that's where we disagree then. I personally don't think disrespect and vulgarity is an integral part of curse words. Most slurs derive from ordinary everyday words that are just ''shaped'' by society to give them an inherent bad meaning. The word ''shit'' meaning feces aren't bad at all if you think about it, it might be seen as ''gross'' but it's a part of everyone's everyday life and shouldn't be seen as disrespectful to talk about. Same goes with the f word. Sex is really an incredibly beautiful thing, I mean it's literally the act that could lead to the creation of a whole new human being with their own future experiences, hopes and dreams. Sex is a very private thing yes, but I am personally very open minded and don't mind discussing topics such as that like if it were any other concept. The meaning of these words aren't inherently bad, but society has given them a ''forged'' badness

[solar hornet]

You're probably right that society has shaped these words to have the vulgar connotation. Be that as it may, they still have that connotation, so we all need to be aware of that. I wasn't saying we can never talk about these ideas or concepts, but just that when we do, we need to do it respectfully, not in a degrading way. I totally agree that sex is a beautiful thing, when done in the proper time and place with the right person. But the F word is not used to describe sex in that way. It's used in the opposite way. I think that's pretty much the only reason I'm against using these words in particular.

I'm not saying that human excrement is beautiful, by the way. LOL