📺 House of the Dragon S2

[sour pulsar]

He is pretty ambitious and Jon wouldn’t reject the throne if it’s offered unlike the show version.

[cerulean glacier]

it sounds stupid cause he's one of the main protagonists

main char winning and surviving at the end is fucked

he's prolly gonna do some shit with the others and end up as some ice zombie

[sour pulsar]

Who said Jon wouldn’t lose something major to gain the throne? We don’t know

[cerulean glacier]

ok but no one's gonna "offer" it to him

ok whatever its hotd channel

i wish rhaenyra was more cunning and vicious

"you have mistaken my kindness for weakness" kamakazi's one her her biggest assets ok bro

[sour pulsar]

She’s more cunning in the books

[cerulean glacier]

no she aint

[sour pulsar]

Yes, she is

[cerulean glacier]

how

she tried to get her dragonseeds merc'd and thought daemon was under a spell, was also angry at alicent because she was hot while she wasnt anymore

literally cersei 2.0

show rhaenyra is better but she still needs to get her shit in order

[sour pulsar]

All that makes her a more interesting character than show where they’re trying to make her a good guy.

[sour pulsar]

https://fxtwitter.com/screentime/status/1810324207542108333?s=46&t=_AWFhpIAIwbUeGd6RdGh0A

[clever temple]

very good episode which i knew was coming in terms of action

but CMONNNN

Aemond tried to burn Aegon and Sunfyre alive cause of bullying?

literally tried to "burn his and his "dragon" alive"

i am sorry i love watching this show but characters and plot never made sense like at all

in any case can't wait to watch brain dead and amazing episode 5

[clever temple]

it doesn't belong in that list but neither does BOB imo

[torn valve]

It goes deeper then that.

Wayyy... deeper

Number one...I hate to draw a parreele here but look at|| school shooters right||

It's the same story,

They got bullied as a kid

Something was wrong with them

They then take out there anger on other students

[clever temple]

okay stop

[torn valve]

What?

It's true

[clever temple]

pls

[torn valve]

Stop what?

[clever temple]

not the same thing

[torn valve]

It's not?

[clever temple]

its not the "Same" parallel

[torn valve]

How isn't it?

Tell me how I'm wrong.

He was bullied his whole life.

He had no love and support system

[clever temple]

you are overestimating writers

[torn valve]

Wut?

[clever temple]

that is not what they are thinking

[torn valve]

Can you tell me how so?

[clever temple]

cmon

[torn valve]

Not litterally

[clever temple]

wait

[torn valve]

I'm just saying, in the same way that could happen

[clever temple]

i will explain

[torn valve]

That's in spirit what happened here.

A person, with no love support, gets a hold of a weapon of destruction and uses it against people who he feels hurt him.

[clever temple]

ok

the way its written and executed means nothing you said cause simply its plot narrative to be Aemond be ruler

opposite to books

[torn valve]

I mean, two things can be true at once, right?

[clever temple]

i haven't read it but i know spoilers

[torn valve]

I have

I got it with me

On my shelf

[clever temple]

no thats fine

but

[torn valve]

And with what the show is doing, I think both are true.

[clever temple]

you are thinking of deeper meaning behind writing

there isnt one

[torn valve]

He legit has to go to this woman in the brothel to get the type of effection there-

Dude this shit ain't surface level

There are layers to this.

[clever temple]

i mean

[torn valve]

Want me to show you interviews with the creators

[clever temple]

like

[torn valve]

And authors?

[clever temple]

GRRM is seperating himself for this btw

[torn valve]

Creators then

[clever temple]

regardless

if you like this and find meaning its fine

i like watching it too

[torn valve]

Ok but

There is meaning

Beyond, "dragon shot fire from mouth"

These are very emotional, humanist characters

That's one of the things martin/ and by extenstion the show, is known for.

Not just in ASOIAF but his other words

"The conflict of the soul is the only thing worth writting about"

These visions daemond are having aren't just illusions for a chilling effect

They are showing the conflict inside his character

[torn valve]

https://youtu.be/g2o4Izcn5Cs?si=gr7IRAnm-2-nTQyZ

[clever temple]

let me ask you a question

[torn valve]

?

[clever temple]

as a book reader and a show lover do you actually think that the show has portrayed this as a "deep" narrative?

[torn valve]

Yeah

[clever temple]

fair

[torn valve]

Definiatly

This story is very Anti War

Deconstructive of the ideas in medivial fantasy

escpailly considering the period this is inspired by

[clever temple]

i mean thats fine but i find this base level writing with the way characters got portayed

[torn valve]

How come?

I'm curious.

I think this is more dimentional then most fantasy written by an advarge writter

[clever temple]

i think it mostly came down to making one side evil

[torn valve]

Only one side if evil?

is*

[clever temple]

rhanerya (sorry for misspell)

Greens are clearly made evil while Rhaenrya is going to kings landing alive (terrible plot btw)

to make peace

cmon

Daemon is ass

[torn valve]

He's not Green

lol

[clever temple]

ofc but ruler of Blakcs is tryna makes peace

its too one sided

[torn valve]

I'll agree

That at the fanbase

Tends to overlook the pitfalls of house black

[clever temple]

?

[torn valve]

And the writters, slightly lean toward the blacks in the charactizations

However I think thie is more morally grey then you give it credit for.

Number 1 Rhanerya is not a saint.

She spends most of seasoning one being a rogue cannon at the expense of others.

And makes Viserys court uphold a complete lie that he knows isn't true

[clever temple]

i am sorry lol the way show portrayed Rhanerya could be the leader of most of our "current" moments in current time

[torn valve]

What?

[clever temple]

yeah

[torn valve]

Wdym, lol

I'm confused, I don't understand what you just said.

[clever temple]

i think her character the way show had portayed would captivate an audience which tbh i would be side of

anti feminism

but thats different topic

[native bear]

Wholeheartedly agree with @torn valve , they setup that Aemond attacking aegon scene and foreshadowed it in the previous episode when aegon came in and bullied him, the show executed this in a great way for the casual viewer

[dusky abyss]

Vhagar was one of the three dragons during Aegon’s Conquest … and about Aegon you’ll find out next episode

Don’t want to spoil it for you

There’s controversy around that

[rich bay]

Ya I know and imagine the damage done by Vhagar at her prime back during Aegon the conqueror days. Also Balerion the black dread was even bigger than Vhagar which is crazy.

[torn valve]

Prob

And she can’t heal fully cause she’s old

[torn valve]

I just remebered a good proverd for Aemond

"The man who is not exmbraced by his village, will burn it down to feel it's warmth"

[dusky abyss]

Literally me

[sour pulsar]

https://fxtwitter.com/culturecrave/status/1810875305537716458?s=46&t=_AWFhpIAIwbUeGd6RdGh0A

[tiny marsh]

Never

It never will

[glass pivot]

so when in the timeline is this series anyway?

I'm a bit lost on that

I do fucking love the parallels between the dragons and nukes. They are treated as weapons of mass destruction. Diplomacy and tactics are done around who has dragons, and the threat of dragons. Everything is built around the fact dragons exist. It's pretty neat to see that done in a fantasy setting. Even characters refusing to use dragons until absolutely necessary because of the brutal horrific consequences of using dragons. Just a single small dragon fight left hundreds dead or wounded, a castle half destroyed, just total carnage.

[torn valve]

Ok so

This show takes place between 110-134 AC (after conquests of Westeros)

At this point Westeros is coming off the ramp of a golden age.

[glass pivot]

where is at in relation to the start of game of thrones?

[glass pivot]

I am like 99% certain I've seen this actor in something else

[cerulean glacier]

Some of the casting is on point

[glass pivot]

yeah its got a fantastic cast in general

they really don't miss with the casting

[cerulean glacier]

Still am not entirely sold on Daemon

[glass pivot]

ahh nah I mistook the actor for Aemond as another actor

[cerulean glacier]

I feel as if he was only cast due to his name presence, rather than his ability to illustrate the character

Thranduil's actor would have made me

[glass pivot]

Nah Matt Smith is killing it as Daemon

bro manages to really capture this kind of conflicted darkness

I can't tell if he's just an awful person or someone who's internally conflicted yet

At first I thought he was truly just an evil asshole

but he feels more nuanced now

[cerulean glacier]

I think if youre show only he's fine, but someone who read the books would have expected something else

[glass pivot]

like I legit can't really tell if he's an evil piece of shit or someone with layers to him

[cerulean glacier]

Right, but that's not who was in the source material

[glass pivot]

who was he in the source material?

[cerulean glacier]

His apathy to internal conflict was one of his hallmarks

Which was why he was called the Rogue Prince

[glass pivot]

he seems pretty apathetic though. He definitely has that vibe about him in the show too

[cerulean glacier]

Like each character is done splendidly Aegon, Aemond, Rhaenyra, Alicent but Criston Cole and Daemon were the only ones whom didn't share it

I'm not sure if you've watched the boys, but season 1's homelander was kind of the direction book Daemon was about

[glass pivot]

I have

[cerulean glacier]

His reputation was impactful enough that his descendant rebel leader, Daemon Blackfyre, was named after him

[glass pivot]

So is he a bad person or just someone who's just kind of apathetic to everything around him?

[cerulean glacier]

He even || Betrays Rhaenyra in the end, without a second thought ||

[glass pivot]

Cause I thought he hated his brother at first, but he definitely doesnt

[cerulean glacier]

Bad person 100% but on the "right side"

[glass pivot]

Okay that tracks

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah bad guy that just happened to be aligned with the good guy team for other reasons, namely being married to Rhaenyra

[glass pivot]

I was starting to see some little bits of good in him randomly like he was a little conflicted with somethings but he comes across as someone who will snap your neck in a second without much thought

[cerulean glacier]

I think he's still a very good depiction but he's meant to be come off as the largest threat, which Aemond currently holds

[glass pivot]

I like that in the show we are seeing the whole "every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin" with how stark the contrast is between the different members of the family

[cerulean glacier]

They did the facial casting well too, they're meant to look more feminine and elegant, which most of the actors can pull off

Like elf-ish, feminine looking, albino psychos

[glass pivot]

King Viserys was kind of just a shockingly good king and seemed like a good dude for all purposes. Rhaenyra is a generally too good of a person in most regards to her own fault. Aegon is a total mess mentally. Aemond is cold but clearly dealing with stuff. Like they all kind of fall one side of the coin or the other

[glass pivot]

well they are all about inbreeding right? So it kind of tracks

[cerulean glacier]

Oh yeah Daemon's dragon too, they did a really good job on that, although the dragons didnt have alot of diversity in the books they really went out of their way to make each one unique

[glass pivot]

yeah Daemon's dragon is perfectly designed for him

[cerulean glacier]

Caraxes being Daemons looking the way he does was great cause Daemon is written as "more snake than dragon"

[glass pivot]

So how far in the past is this series from the mainline series?

[cerulean glacier]

Ok a little controversial to talk about racial castings but, the velaryons being black was also a really good call because they as well as the Targaryens are meant to be "foreigners" in a sense to westeros

[glass pivot]

yeah people were mad about that

[cerulean glacier]

So appearing more akin to their essosi cousins like we saw in season 1, was a cool

People were but for the wrong reasons ig

[glass pivot]

but the Velaryons aren't Targeryans they're their own thing right?

their own family

they just have similar ties

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah but even the Targs being black would have worked but they already casted them as white originally with Dany so

[glass pivot]

them looking like elfs is a good call

since people treat them as almost being above human

which the show itself mentioned

[cerulean glacier]

The only distinctive feature that Valyrians have are purple eyes and white hair, otherwise they're meant to look foreign to westeros

[glass pivot]

so my main issue with this show is that its really good, but all the foreshadowing towards game of thrones is kinda ruining it for me because of the disasterous ending of the game of throne show

like its kind of pulling me out of a lot of the good foreshadowing

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah, they're inbred sorcerer folk, as well as being even further east than the triarchy we saw in s1

Like these guys speak Valyrian

[glass pivot]

oh didn't know that

[cerulean glacier]

And are the daughters of Valyria, so closer culturally to the Targs than westerosis are

Its how when Dany went to the other side of the world to slaver's bay, she flexed that the language the insulting master was speaking, was her mother tongue

[glass pivot]

so I know in the books at least that Jon Snow is clearly meant to be the chosen one to defeat the ice walkers currently. (I don't count the ending of the show as canon for a number of reasons) how does he connect to the Targeryans? is it via Rhaeyra's kids?

[cerulean glacier]

Major spoilers if you want the answer || Yeah Rhaenyra's youngest son, the baby we saw playing on the floor; is the current Targ ancestor ||

[glass pivot]

wait the baby is Jon Snow or Jon Snow's current ancestor?

I don't really know how far back House of Dragon is from Game of Thrones timeline wise

[cerulean glacier]

Its like 150yrs back I think

[glass pivot]

Ahh okay

[cerulean glacier]

his ancestor yeah

[glass pivot]

I see

and next episode im assuming we're going to see what Aegon the conqueror saw in his dream

that lead to all this

[cerulean glacier]

maybe i got no idea what theyre gonna do

but there's def alot of cool stuff about to come

but not sure if we'll see it all this season

[glass pivot]

I like how the dragons are treated in the show so far

them being treated as effectively nuclear weapons is really neat to see in a fantasy type setting

[cerulean glacier]

Yeahhhhh

Alot better than s8 got

Where they got sniped out randomly

[glass pivot]

yeah dragons feel like unstoppable beasts of destruction so far in the show. Where even the idea of a war with dragons is one of mass destruction and death

you really get a feel for just how powerful they are

[cerulean glacier]

They went in circles with that lmao, first they get picked off by a sniping arrow than all of a sudden drogon has fire that makes things explode

[glass pivot]

also its funny how unlikable Cole is

I did not see that turn when he was first introduced

[cerulean glacier]

yeah im also kinda mixed with him lol

but all in all really good

book wise he was even more of an incel

[glass pivot]

like he's such a piece of shit its kind of shocking

[cerulean glacier]

cole in books

[glass pivot]

and I thought Aegon would be more of an evil bastard king but so far he's mostly been kind of sad and lost and generally unsure what to do

[cerulean glacier]

he's like even worse in the books lol, he was prolly the main reason the war started, and it was all cause of his incel bitch fit

[glass pivot]

came across way more pathetic than anything

[cerulean glacier]

yeah aegon in shows way better

he's more rounded and stuff

[glass pivot]

yeah he definitely feels like a real person

most of the characters do

[cerulean glacier]

he was kinda lazily made to be diet joffrey in books

[glass pivot]

yeah thats the vibe I got originally too

I do still think dragon fire is inconsistent in the show though. Sometimes it outright decimates everything, even blowing apart rock, but sometimes people just get caught on fire and kind of run around burning. While other times they are instantly incinerated into bones

but game of thrones had that same issue

[torn valve]

Game of thrones or ASOAIF to takes place in 298-301 AC

[glass pivot]

im guessing by the end of this the targeryan family will be in tatters?

iirc they are basically gone by the start of game of thrones

[torn valve]

Question

What’s ur pfp brhh

Bruh

[glass pivot]

fuwamoco of Hololive EN

they're vtubers

[torn valve]

Oh

OHHhhhhhh

[dusky abyss]

The Dance of Dragons is a good few generations before but yes it started the decay

Arguably

Idk i dont wanna spoil

[rich bay]

Loved the new episode. Dameon and his dreams man, they are weird and was that his mother?? , also Daemon realises that his persuasion skills has limits.Jace is finally stepping up and made some moves this episode and his suggestion later in the episode was fascinating as well. We finally get to see the Eyrie and it is gorgeous. Aemond finally got what he wanted and I don't get what Alicent was thinking, Aemond is the heir and next in line to the Throne, so obviously he is the regent.

No action this episode, a lot of talk and that was fascinating as well.

[sour pulsar]

Daemon has Oedipus complex. Tf

[sour pulsar]

Alicent wants that throne for herself. Doesn’t truly care about her children either. I found it laughable she thought Aemond wasn’t more capable to be the ruler than her. No wonder he turned out to be the way he did.

Rhaenyra is another incompetent. Queen Elizabeth I from Wish.

[rich bay]

I don't think so because she's pragmatic. I do believe she's afraid of Aemond a bit and doesn't want him to rule, also does this mean that the show cut another son of Aegon which was in the book because Cole said Aemond was next in line to the Throne.

[cunning fox]

The Daemon hallucination shit is getting old

[torn valve]

Does anyone else notice the reoccuring symbolism of Viserys, Aegon, and Aemond all loosing their right eye?

Almost like, there each inheriting a form of blindness in there own way rights?

[torn valve]

Not exactly....

Harrenhall in the lore is said to be haunted, it's the sight of alot of stream phanominons.

Even in the books, hundreds of years later, strange things are sitll alleged to occur.

[sour pulsar]

I’m referring to the show. Don’t remember him having these thoughts in the book.

[torn valve]

No no I mean in asoiaf

In general

[rich bay]

As long as Daemon is in Harrenhal and sleeping in a bed made of Weirweed tree which is known to cause hallucinations.. this will happen.

[torn valve]

It's following the same vain, the place is haunted.by the ghosts of Harrens sons.

[torn valve]

^^^^^^

That too.

Weriwoods are also known to cause hallucinations and visions.

[rich bay]

I think Daemon's plan has backfired massively with the riverlords against him.. so let's see what he will do next.. Ser Alfred is going to meet him too.

[sour pulsar]

Daemon definitely has Oedipus complex in the show though. I know it’s a hallucination, but that’s what it is.

[rich bay]

Ah ya

[torn valve]

WHY DID I READ THAT IS OPIODS

Opiuods

Opioids

My bad, lol

Yeah this guy is unhinged as fuck.

[sour pulsar]

Why they gotta make him more degenerate

[torn valve]

"Let me let this guy raid villages, and kidnape women and children"

That'll work

I'm sure they

They'll be cool with that...

Bro...

[rich bay]

I also like what Rhaenyra said like what should she do?? She wants to ride a dragon but her council and son advise against that for good reason.. Daemon could have been a big asset but he's AWOL and has designs of his own. Her most capable advisor is dead, her son is doing stuff on his own. Let's see what that plan of Mysaria is.

If only the plan to have two people ride those 2 dragons worked, things would be easy for her.

[hearty blade]

I mean, it's pretty in-line for him

[torn valve]

Now alot of people say Alicent doesn't care for her children, but I don't think that's accuarate.

I don't think she has the tools do so.

Emotionaly

[rich bay]

He's ends justify the means guy and for him anything is okay as long as it serves his interests

[torn valve]

Look how Otto Hightower raised her...

Very formal, emotionless, almost like a machine.

[hearty blade]

Alicent just doesn't know how to parent because her dad never really raised her properly and she had her kids when she was very young

[torn valve]

How was she at the start of the show? 15?

And thats+

[hearty blade]

And Viserys was also a terrible father to his kids who weren't Rhaenyra

[torn valve]

And that's assuming this kinda stuff started then and there

[torn valve]

Def

"Oh my kid lost his eye, oh well" Also vSIERYS"HOW DARE YOU TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT YOUR BROTHERS FATHER"

[hearty blade]

I think she must've been sixteen or seventeen when she had Aegon

[torn valve]

Yeah I'm sure that didn't effect her emotional development

She was always evil guys

She came out the womb wanting to kill Rhanerya

[hearty blade]

It's whole generational trauma thing

[torn valve]

Exactly

[hearty blade]

Her dad had no idea how to be a parent so now she has no idea how to be a parent

[torn valve]

Like you notice how like, Viserys, Aegon, and Aemond are all missing something on the right side of ther faces?

They've inherted there fathers burdens

[sour pulsar]

Corlys gotta be the most tragic character in HOTD/F&B

[torn valve]

Oh yeah

Now

There is a fault here, he's realizing now the cost of the climb

And let me tell you IT GETS WORST FOR HIM

Like after this war

The Valeryons become very poor

And never recover

[sour pulsar]

I know. Wonder how they’ll do his bastards storyline.

[torn valve]

Wdym

OHHH

Dragon Seed

Escpailly since Hugh is trapped in Kingslanding.

But another thing I notice is she shows symbolism with food.

We see a shot of the common folk buying rotting peaches and oranges

And we when we cut to Criston Cole, his uses a lemon to maintain his sword.

Something that would feed a starving child in the city, is rather being used to maintain a tool of war.

It encapsliates everything

Right there

The real victums, the mothers and fathers you caught stray fire from dragons

The children who are gonna strave

The lives that will be destroyed

I'd also like to expand a converastion I've been having in the Acolye channel, as it pertians to what I think seprates good dialogue, from poorly written diagloue

Now here is how I look at things: NOT EVERY SINGLE LINE NEEDS TO BE SHAKESPEAR

That's an equally dangerous trap writters fall into.

However, lines like "JEDI ARE GOOD" "No JEDI ARE BAD"

Need to be revised

This episode had some of the best Dialogue this season and I'll give an example

[sour pulsar]

Personally don’t care about that trash Acolyte.

[torn valve]

Alicent: "Has you're loyalty faded, or does floruish only at night and flee in the sunrise Like a moth"

[sour pulsar]

||It’s a shame that eventually Rhaenyra arrest Corlys and Addam.||

[torn valve]

Now this line IS GREAT

For two reasons

It fits the character, but it also has more then one meaning

She is both asking him, on a service level, does your loyal mean anything, and she is asking him did you only want me for sex

All that, in just one line.

Well put as well

[sour pulsar]

Hope the showrunners don’t mess up Hour of the Wolf.

[torn valve]

Hopefully

But that's a long way away

[cerulean glacier]

I don't really enjoy how they're trying to push the sexism aspect when they unwittingly justify it

Rhaenyra and Alicent have been getting alot of dissent from their respective councils when both have shown to make unpragmatic, naive and borderline childish decisions; the latter isn't even in a position to rule as regent

Especially given that she championed her cause on the basis of male-rule

Rhaenyra let men loyal to her die whilst she as their liege and protector sat on her island, they had faith in her and she failed them

And repeatedly tried ridiculous ways to avoid an inevitability and refused to capitalize on her advantages

Rhaenys also comes to mind because I imagine she'd be a leader the men/council would respect and follow just due to the wisdom and respect she commands but she also let the Hightowers go free when she had them at gun point

Like this isn't about gender, its just quite literally in a war effort where you need to exploit your advantages in a grand strategy, they're just not the optimal leaders

If Visenya or Nymeria were in their shoes nobody would raise dissent

Also idk, Rhaenyra saying to lords whats his name that "I don't doubt your loyalty but you openly talk against me at council" like, isn't that a good thing? To know that you have a loyal and competent advisor that is only looking out for the best for you? Its more important to have someone whose trying to help than be nice/sycophantic because at the end of the day victory or the primary objective but that scene came off as Rhaenyra was overly concerned with social personalities as if it were a friend group and not a war council.

Its not like he was speaking out against her infront of the masses, enemies or negotiating partners rather behind closed doors within the inner circle, not infront of anyone.

For a leader too like idk: when the little prince was dead she was more concerned that a baby got killed, which normal people like us should and are concerned with but she should be more attentive to the optics to the masses than him, like yeah fuck the kid but this aint a good look politically

Ok maybe that's too far but you get the idea, she needs to be much more tactical in her approach

But the writers seem to be trying to create sexism in Westerosi culture whilst unintentionally enforcing "Women are too emotional" stereotype

[glass pivot]

I mean her kids are all monsters in different ways. One is a mentally unwell immature unstable freak and the other is a dangerous, uncontrollable, plotting, sociopath with little regard for doing what he thinks is best. Her sons aren't exactly good leaders and to be frank she's clearly getting more and more tuned out with everything because the war is only escalating and she feels like the only one who can do something to pull it back before it gets too far lost

Alicent was so blinded by a dying man's mumblings that she inadvertly started a massive war she didn't want and now after things have reached the boiling point she realizes she's an idiot. And all because they named one of their kids after an ancestor

[sour pulsar]

Alicent is a monster too. What do you expect?

[glass pivot]

Is she? Maybe I've misread her character but she's came across as one of the most conflicted characters. She seems to be a good person with major issues. Everything has kinda happened out of her control. If the king had simply died quietly in his sleep none of this would've happened

[sour pulsar]

Well, in the show Rhaenyra wanted peace and she rebuffed.

[glass pivot]

She just seems like a trainwreck

[sour pulsar]

“Good person”
Lol. She’s like one of the major reason this happened.

[glass pivot]

I mean, after she found out she started all this off a misunderstanding of a brain addled man on his death bed giving his last words.

And then she finds out that people behind her back was starting all this without her knowing

and then she finds out her father took advantage of her and used her for all his schemes and plans

and then Daemon fucks up and gets a child killed

Like everything in this series seems to be the result of truly tragic mishappens and fuck ups

[rich bay]

https://x.com/westerosies/status/1813575494929174945?t=AXZoaW4A65meIYXzLMFLoA&s=19

westerosies (@westerosies) on X

Official runtimes for the final 3 episodes of #HouseOfTheDragon Season 2:

• E06 - 70 mins
• E07 - 67 mins
• E08 - 73 mins

Twitter · Jul 17, 2024, 2:04 PM

[dusky abyss]

It just feels like a repeat of what we saw in the later seasons of game of thrones with sansa and danerys

A more mass appeal approach based on our modern standards rather than the actual lore of the books

[dusky abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/aemond-targaryen-hotd-house-of-the-dragon-mashallah-gif-26931962

Literally me

[humble plover]

As opposed to Viserys, Aegon, Daemon, Aemond and Cole

Who have all made consistently wise, meditated decisions for the good of the Realm

Only two characters so far this season have made any attempt at peace, and that’s Rhaenyra and Alicent

As much as we love a big battle, Rhaenyra trying to prevent them is good leadership

The dragons have fought exactly once so far and, as she predicted, it was miserable for everyone

[humble plover]

Aegon flew into battle literally once and now he’s fried chicken. A good ruler isn’t one that insists they be on the front lines of every battle, that’s just common sense

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah but the show isnt trying to portray them as smart decisions

Like those characters you've mentioned, being dumbasses or impulsive is apart of their character and their actions show for it

[humble plover]

Yes exactly. They’re treated favourably to Rhaenyra/Alicent despite making far more openly foolish decisions with the power they have

The point is that power defaults to gender and genetics, not to wisdom

[cerulean glacier]

The green council is another issue

But Rhaenyra's advisors and her son were making good points

[humble plover]

They weren’t really

[cerulean glacier]

But it felt like the show was trynna portray them as sexist as if their advise wasn't based on merit

[humble plover]

Her son wanted to go die in battle on a dragon, she shut him down and it inspired him to come up with a far better plan

That’s good leadership

[cerulean glacier]

She also tried to make the same mistake

Disappearing for days on end without notifying your generals also isn't

[humble plover]

The lords on Rhaenyra’s council haven’t a clue. As she says herself, they were all raised and trained in peacetime. Their chief advice so far has been for Rhaenyra to go into hiding while they ‘handle it’.

[humble plover]

Disappearing for a couple of days to try and end the war while surrounded by bloodthirsty idiots?

[cerulean glacier]

It was the small things like raising arms and taking advantage and not allowing idleness

[humble plover]

Daemon had a baby decapitated without notifying his generals

It’s a double standard

[cerulean glacier]

It isn't because everyone who knows about it thought Daemon was an idiot for it

[humble plover]

So you agree Rhaenyra is a wiser ruler than Daemon?

[cerulean glacier]

Fucking obviously

Daemon is alot of things but wise isn't one of them lol

[humble plover]

And what of Aegon? Is he wiser than Alicent?

[cerulean glacier]

I don't know what you're getting at

[humble plover]

In his own words, “he want to make war”

[cerulean glacier]

Their respective advisors don't respect Daemon or Aegon either

[humble plover]

Rhaenyra and Alicent can have flaws and still be the more sensible choices for leader

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah I don't know what you're talking about

[humble plover]

They’re calling to bring Daemon back non-stop?

[humble plover]

You said the show unwittingly justifies sexism

[cerulean glacier]

They both made strategically poor decisions, when Aegon and Daemon do it they're branded as idiots which they are, but when Alicent and Rhaenyra make similar blunders the show tries to push it off as "actually it was smart, moids just cant see it"

[humble plover]

Female characters being flawed doesn’t mean they should endure sexism disproportionate to their similarly if not more flawed male counterparts

[cerulean glacier]

Because with Albert or whoever his name was, was making poignant criticism in good faith, but he was written off as just a sexist

[humble plover]

I’d suggest Aemond isn’t a great leader either, he just wants to burn half the realm on Vhaegar

He’s a war addict

The inverse of Rhaenyra

[humble plover]

What was the ‘poignant criticism’ exactly if you can remember?

[cerulean glacier]

Rhaenys is the only female character so far thats shown to be actually competent, only character at all maybe

He was trying early on to muster soldiers or respond to Cole's threats, or told Baela she should have killed Cole when she had the chance; which was true but

Baela should have responded with "I know, but I was under orders not to"

[humble plover]

Nope

Found the quote

[cerulean glacier]

Which would have been a better response

[humble plover]

Shall I post it?

[cerulean glacier]

Sure

[humble plover]

It’s a sexist remark calling for Daemon to take charge again

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah thats what I mean

[humble plover]

‘Daemon has been banished cos of Bridezilla here but we need him’

[humble plover]

Even though you agree Daemon is an even worse leader than Rhaenyra?

But because he’s male, he’s seen as more desirable by Broome

[cerulean glacier]

Alfred's criticism is good, losing 1 dragon to combat whilst the other is gone is a very valid criticism but the writers made his lines to have a sexist undertone to it

[humble plover]

They lost a dragon, the Greens lost a king

But crucially

Rhaenyra didn’t want that battle to occur

She didn’t want to risk dragons

She kept trying to stop it

Daemon wanted to do it from S1E10

Viserys was dead an hour and Daemon wanted dragon wars

[cerulean glacier]

I read it more as Caraxes being a veteran and deadliest dragon is prolly the biggest asset

[humble plover]

We have now seen that dragon combat is to be avoided if at all possible

[cerulean glacier]

But different eyes ig

[humble plover]

Meleys trumps Caraxes

By quite a bit

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah but at that time

She's dead

[humble plover]

Far older, more experienced

[cerulean glacier]

lol

[humble plover]

Oh you’re talking about the quote

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah

[humble plover]

He’s not talking about dragons there

He wants the man leader back

The marital quip is very venomous, hard to misinterpret

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah like I said different eyes, to me it was a war room so when they say Daemon its under a strategy plans ergo Daemon=Caraxes, the war asset

Like chess

[humble plover]

Can I share Broome’s next line?

Really doesn’t sound like it’s about the dragons to me

[cerulean glacier]

I don't even think we're arguing the same thing

[humble plover]

As Rhaenyra points out, he has never been privy to battle

He’s just a bloke

[cerulean glacier]

Alfred is an actual sexist dialogue wise, but he shouldnt be

[humble plover]

I get this but it’s not what he’s saying

It’s what you’re saying

But that isn’t the advise he gave in council

[cerulean glacier]

Because objectively speaking he isn't saying anything stupid, its just been stylized by the writers to be sexist and condescending

[humble plover]

He’s explicitly saying we need the baby killer back because that’s better than a woman

That isn’t a stylistic change

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah thats why I sent the original message

[humble plover]

That is the literal text

[cerulean glacier]

The "gentler sex is dumby" came out of left field for me

[humble plover]

But it’s all he’s been saying all season

[cerulean glacier]

Ik, which is dumb

[humble plover]

Not one person on either council has been in a war before

None of them have a clue

[cerulean glacier]

Its like they just want to have "look at this moid"

In the scene

[humble plover]

No it’s like they’re writing about a monarchy contested by a female candidate

Which is literally the story of the show

[cerulean glacier]

Aflred is already supporting the queen tho 💀

[humble plover]

So of course the old guard male lords will undercut her at every step

[humble plover]

No he’s supporting the blacks

That’s the point

He wants Daemon back

[cerulean glacier]

I dont think Alfred likes Daemon

lol

As far as you can push the sexist side of him, I think its that he has Rhaenyra's best interest at heart but doesn't have faith in her war decisions because he thinks she's too gentle (because she's a woman)

[humble plover]

He does not have her best interests at heart lol

[cerulean glacier]

Which you could have portrayed in a way that didnt make him come off as a frat boy

[humble plover]

He wants her to go into hiding so Big Man Daemon can lead the war effort and conquer King’s Landing

Does she come back from hiding after Daemon takes the throne? Maybe, but it’s not much of a claim

[cerulean glacier]

I never got the idea Alfred wanted Daemon to be incharge, especially considering thats he's been sent to Harrenhal

I imagine we're gonna see the two beef in the coming episodes

Where Alfred scolds Daemon for not being loyal and dies for it

Or I might be totally wrong, we'll see

The Daemon comment in the pic you sent sounded more like "We lost a dragon and a ranking officer over some stupid ass relationship, what the fuck are we doing?.... cause ur a wahmen lmao"

The last bit being unnecessary to add

Instead of some reality show following the characters they could have kept Alfred's criticisms without the sexism undertone, then Rhaenyra reflecting that she wasn't educated on those matters despite being the crown heir and future supreme commander of the realm because of her sex, shining light on the grander instituitional patriarchal system

Alfred making passive aggressive sexist quips and Rhaenyra being mad at his attitude, made them both come off childish

The gender role thing does play an important part of the war but its portrayed through the grander narrative and social system the characters partake in, not personal banter

Like one thing they didn't touch on in the show was that, the war is also subconsciously a conflict between Valyrian and Andal customs; in the seven kingdoms the ethnicities and who they position as the leader are:
Andals: male primogenitor
First men: whomever was the most skilled, wildings in GoT for example
Rhoynar: the first born, in GoT dorne
Valyrians: most talented blood mage

For simplicity andals = westerosi

Maegor established the effort in the Targs/royal family following their own foreign valyrian customs but at the expense of antagonizing alot of their subjects like the faith, as one of the practices was incest and polygamy for example

Jaeherys then spent his entire reign trying to heal that division, which is why he called the great council to let the lords decide instead of just letting Rhaenys be heir as would be their tradition

Another undertone they left out too was that Rhaenys wasn't passed over just because the lords were like "ew women icky" it was also to avoid the precedent of female inheritance because had that been allowed, most of the lords would then be contested by sisters or aunts that they themselves passed over

So in an effort to retain their strangehold on wealth and power, voted for Viserys

[humble plover]

This just sounds like “ew women icky” to me girl idk

[cerulean glacier]

Ok but "i dont wanna lose all my stuff" also played a large part

Thats also why you see in the Dance much of the more Machiavellian houses like Lannister and Hightowers

Whereas more loyalist factions like the Starks sided with the blacks

[humble plover]

Ye

[cerulean glacier]

The Arryns sided with Rhaenyra regardless because she was half Arryn herself

[humble plover]

To women

lol

[cerulean glacier]

Because in that instance itd only be women who would threaten them, alot of them already took care of their male rivals

[humble plover]

I would argue that a fundamental theme of GoT/HotD is how privileged characters use historical precedent like all that you’ve outlined to impose a perceived logic on the outcomes that suit them better

Claims and entitlement trump what’s fair or even agreed upon

[cerulean glacier]

You can see it in Otto's character, he was very motivated to have Rhaenyra as heir originally in order to get Daemon out, the gender didn't even come to his mind; but once he had his grandson in line, he hopped full on that male primogenitor thing

The council wasn't just sexist or "i dont want to lose my shit to... women" it was that they didnt want to lose anything at all, which threw women under the bus

As well as Andal cultural dominance

[humble plover]

Oh that’s not what happened

Otto pushed Rhaenyra to get Daemon exiled and then in the same night pushed Alicent to seduce Viserys

Thus ensuring all possible male heirs were his

He counted on Rhaenyra being contested

He played the sexism of the realm

[cerulean glacier]

I dont think you know how the books work lol, Otto wanted Daemon out cause he was a threat to him and he didnt like him personally; and he'd have tried to pimp Alic to Viserys regardless because tying his house to the crown is a play

Plus even if Daemon was around while Alicent got pregnant with Aegon, itd go to Aegon if he somehow managed to pass it over Rhaenyra

[humble plover]

Don’t condescend the books to me

I’ve watched the series, which is what we’re talking about

[cerulean glacier]

You're trynna put way too much emphasis on the sexism thing rather than it being a buncha cut throats making their grab for power

Which is fine, but its like 10x lamer

[humble plover]

The book Fire & Blood is very openly about false information

And conflicting stories

[humble plover]

The sexism is how the cutthroats grab for power

Which is 10x more interesting

An older man champions a female heir because he knows it’ll make it easier to contest it with his own male heir down the line.

That’s bread and butter court conspiracy

[cerulean glacier]

Its a tool in this instance, in a different situation if supporting a woman outright would help them ascend their house and standing they'd do that as well

[humble plover]

It’s a tool for Otto

And one he exploits

It’s a very real disposition for all those he uses it against

But I’m gonna risk blowing your mind here and say

Using sexism as a tool

Is sexism

[cerulean glacier]

Aegon was a later development, he wasn't trying to oust Daemon as some grand master plan

[humble plover]

Yes he was

It happened in the same night

[cerulean glacier]

Getting Daemon out and pimping Alicent out was something he'd have done regardless of the circumstances

[humble plover]

‘Oust Daemon, court Viserys, bed by 11’

He says himself the plan was decades in the work

Viserys needed a male heir, Otto ensured it was his

Rhaenyra enabled him to get Daemon out of the way

[cerulean glacier]

I can't see that, I imagine he just took every opportunity he had to grab for power and invested as things progressed

[humble plover]

Except that goes against everything we know about him

Otto is the least impulsive character in the show

Everything is calculated with him

[cerulean glacier]

"Daemon gtfo"
"Yo Alic see if you can hook up with Viserys"
"Ayo a male kid? Scratch all that, we gon balls deep with this one"

[humble plover]

That sounds like a Daemon strategy

[cerulean glacier]

He also tried to wed Aegon to Rhaenyra whilst retaining Rhaenyra's crown

Each of the great houses are all just trying to get their own blood on the throne

[humble plover]

I’ve got things to do, we’ll agree to disagree

[cerulean glacier]

Shits deeper and more complex than just sexsim, but some of the dialogue they write degrades it to just that

Which is dumb as shit

[dusky abyss]

Literally everyone ridicules that moment

[dusky abyss]

1000%

[dusky abyss]

Yup

[dusky abyss]

Idiotic is what that is

[dusky abyss]

And rhaenrya and alicent have none of it, yet the show always white knights them

[cunning fox]

whats the argument?

[humble plover]

That desperate for a row?

[cunning fox]

I love House of the Dragon lol so we'd probably agree

[cerulean glacier]

Kinda wish they fleshed out Baela and Rhaena a bit more

They seem a little bland "the good kids"

Thing is they're not just random girls, they're Daemon's kids so should have some rebellious or hawty tone to em

[cunning fox]

Oh yeah they’re very bland and boring imo

[cerulean glacier]

Jace was so fucking bland too

But they fixed it recently

[dusky abyss]

I mean are you like your parents

[cunning fox]

I thought it was a very strong episode but for the love of Christ, please wipe Daemon's bullshit Harrenhal acid trip ghost subplot out of existence - it's such wasted screen time

[pale vigil]

okay, so I just watched Episode 6.....

this series isn't going nowhere with this format of what is most likely 2 good episodes per season, one in the mid season - Episode 4, and at the end of the season - Episode 8

I'm so fed up with Daemon not doing anything except sleeping in Harrenhal and the Greens with their pointless, bleak and badly executed internal family drama

and small subplots like Larys trying to make it to the very top using spies, subterfuge and plotting

characters talking same topics in repeated cycles over and over again - Rhaenyra with "I don't know what to do, I'm not authority because I'm a woman, I will lose the war" and Alicent with "I'm worried that everything will fall apart but I can't do anything because of Aegon and Aemond doing whatever they want and because I'm a woman"

endlessly teasing us with dragons but then getting them scarcely showed

apparently they didn't have budget so they just reused VFX assets for Drogon and made it white - Seasmoke was different in the first season (yes, similar to Drogon but different)

Also, spoiler - ||Rhaenyra making out with Mysaria at the end - wtf was that ?||

awful episode and it made clear to me that they either didn't have budget or they decided to go with 2 big and good episodes with 6 boring and bleak filler episodes

[rich bay]

Loved episode 6 and this season has been incredible so far. Daemon finally realises that he needs to get out of Harrenhal and it must have been very difficult for him to ask Alys for help and she delivered with Grover Tully dead and Oscar being the new Lord, meaning now Daemon can get Riverrun on his side (ya he still has some explaining to do regarding his support for Blackwood war crimes but with House Tully's support it can be done). So, it seems Daemon dreams are finally gonna be over.

What a fantastic move to send those food in Kings landing showing that Rhaenyra still cares for small folk and then we have the whole riot as well. Mysaria is quite smart.

Finally, Seasmoke has a rider in Addam of Hull which I didn't see coming but makes sense as he has Valyrian blood. Rhaenyra and Jace were never looking at bastards to ride dragons.

So, pieces are moving in and I know some people will feel bored as they only want dragon battles but I'm loving it.

[cerulean glacier]

Brooooooooo WHAT THE FAAAAAAACK

[cerulean glacier]

Yeah I noticed seasmoke was just white drogon lmao

Mysaria: I was molested by my own father

Rhae Rhae: thats so fucking hot

Alright anyway, ep serious comment:

|| My goats for this season was Larys, really enjoyed his depth and 3d character. He failed at becoming hand and was genuinely angry when Aemond insulted him, which I really enjoyed. It showed he wasn't that 1-dimensional above it all master manipulator archetype ||

|| And him reminiscing about his past and (Alys Rivers easter egg? ), showed he may develop an actual personal loyalty to Aegon due to kindred cripples, the actor's performance was also just great ||

|| I enjoy Daemon's sidequest scenes, idk why most audiences dont like it but I think its cool ||

|| The ships arriving at KL was very powerful and emotional. The sensation of salvation, power, manipulation etc. ||

|| The queen's guard who died trying to do the unthinkable for his queen was so based ||

|| The Rhaenyra and Mysaria romance caught me absolutely offguard, there's been alot of criticism over it online. Although I do agree they could have maybe done it better if the writer's were die hard about adding it in. Mysaria seducing Rhaenyra as a tool to rise her ranks like how Larys tries to buddy buddy with Aegon would have worked maybe ||

|| I will add though, the discussions about "cheating" are dumb as fuck, they're nobility. When they do have sex with people outside their marriage its only a problem for cultural and political reasons, not personal ||

Imagine if they pulled this shit in GoT, Varys and Tyrion fuck after Varys explained how the sorcerer cut his balls off

[sour pulsar]

Yennefer of Vengerberg

[sour pulsar]

Rhaenyra and Mysaria didn’t have any sexual relationship in the book, but they had to shove that in which doesn’t serve any purpose to the story just so that they could pander to the SJW crowd.

Apparently the writer for the episode also wrote Acolyte. Not surprised.

Aemond is a bad king and doesn’t care about the smallfolks. I guess Alicent was right after all.

Addam of Hull finally becomes a dragonrider.

[humble plover]

I’m surprised at all the criticisms around pacing

This is how most episodes of Game of Thrones worked

It was only towards the very end when they all became blockbusters

Daemon in Harrenhal is comparable to Jon adventuring with the Wildlings, or indeed Arya at Harrenhal

Smaller character stories with ways to eventually fold into the war effort

[humble plover]

Who cares

[humble plover]

I don’t think it’s a romance btw

[sour pulsar]

Clearly you seem to

Otherwise why reply

[humble plover]

Cos you’re aggro about it

You say it won’t serve any purpose to a story you haven’t seen yet

Which is funny

[sour pulsar]

Well, I’m gonna be aggressive against woke propaganda and this wasn’t even in the book.

[humble plover]

Woke propaganda is so funny

There are bigger issues in the world than two women kissing in the dragon show

Save your fears of ‘propaganda’ for things a bit higher up the chain

Did you have the same issue when Alicent slept with Cole, or when Rhaenyra did? On the flipside, how about when Aemond slept with Sylvi or Aegon with his maid?

None of those are ‘in the book’ either

Are they propaganda?

[sour pulsar]

Yeah, I had issues with all that as well.

[humble plover]

Did you talk about them here

[sour pulsar]

I did talk about Alicent-Cole part before, which was unnecessary.

[humble plover]

And the others?

[sour pulsar]

Why do you want me to talk about “others”

[humble plover]

I’m just wondering

[sour pulsar]

Keep wondering

[humble plover]

lol

[pale vigil]

they were far more substantial and didn't feel stretched out like this season of HotD

and I mean REALLY STRETCHED

for the first time I had urge to skip scenes or speed up them by a dozen seconds

[humble plover]

I mean, for every Tyrion scene there was a Bran monologue or Theon torture scene

Or Jamie in Dorne, or Catelyn Stark dreaming about Ned

This has always been a universe where some parts move faster than others in different episodes

[pale vigil]

yeah but like I said, although pacing was slow the things were moving and progressing in GoT

[humble plover]

I do think there’s progress across virtually every storyline this week

[pale vigil]

here we have torture of the viewers by stretching same things over multiple episodes

[humble plover]

Daemon’s Adventures in Luigi’s Mansion are pretty vital in terms of securing the biggest landmass, the Riverlands

Between fever dreams he’s been making those relations progressively worse

[pale vigil]

we are already finished with 6 of 8 episodes

Daemon in this season so far did 3 things:

1. Came to Harrenhal
2. Sleeping and experiencing nightmares because of his guilt
3. Alys making Grover Tully die so finally Daemon can move out

like wtf ?

[humble plover]

Well I mean

Few more bits

[pale vigil]

well if you are satisfied with them serving you only small bits and extremely small details, then okay I guess

[humble plover]

Daemon so far this season has:

1). Assassinated Aegon’s infant heir.

2). Demanded he be called King instead of Prince or Lord.

3). Took Harrenhal in one night.

4). Treated with the Brackens and the Blackwoods, attempting Daemon trickery which has only made things worse.

5). Broke up with Adult Rhaenyra.

6). Fantasised about Child Rhaenyra.

7). Became besties with a witch.

8). Made it so that the Riverlands Lord could die, enabling him to treat with a kid.

[humble plover]

Blood & Cheese is pretty major

[pale vigil]

and it has been dealt with in the first episode

there are 7 more

[humble plover]

Depicted in the first episode

Dealt with in the second

The Harrenhal storyline had only been 4 episodes, not 6

[pale vigil]

well I have feeling like it was since forever that Daemon came to Harrenhal

[humble plover]

That’s fair

[pale vigil]

like it was 10 seasons already of him in Harrenhal

and not 4 episodes

[humble plover]

If you think about it in terms of Thrones though, characters would absolutely spend four episodes or more doing a storyline before moving on to the next thing

[humble plover]

Very few Thrones characters got to do this much in a season

[pale vigil]

yeah but it wasn't executed like this.... it had substantiality behind it

with this season of HotD is like more of - come on, move along already

[humble plover]

Rewatch GoT S2 or S3

I think you’d be surprised at how slow those episodes move

There are full episodes which are really just people arriving at places

[sour pulsar]

He’s gonna be in Harrenhal for some time.

[humble plover]

Probably like one more episode tbf

They’ll ||likely take King’s Landing in the finale||

[sour pulsar]

Yeah until next episode.

[pale vigil]

I doubt it

[sour pulsar]

||He leaves Harrenhal when Aemond and his army marches towards them.||

[humble plover]

Have faith

[sour pulsar]

||It should happen in episode 8. Aemond and Criston marching towards Harrenhal and the fall would be the finale. Jace’s death would be next episode.||

[cunning fox]

https://tenor.com/view/ron-burgundy-escalated-quickly-gif-9744555

[humble plover]

Did it

[hearty blade]

Bro it wasn't even from the writers so that point is kind of moot
https://fxtwitter.com/westerosies/status/1815254246691905840

Y'all will see any sort of onscreen representation as "pandering"

[sour pulsar]

Not surprising.

[sour pulsar]

It’s not any onscreen representation when HOTD/F&B do have LGBT characters(Laenor and Jeyne Arryn). Rhaenyra wasn’t and it’s unnecessary to make this change. That is indeed pandering.

[cerulean glacier]

Ah shit I neglected to mention

|| Grrm has been adding a few lore pieces here and there, like how Aegon 1 was a dreamer. Something they also added that I think most people missed was that the dragon tamer who died with Darklyn killed himself while engulfed in fire, which is pivotal to how dragon bond/taming works. So the OG valyrians had to do human sacrifices to bond with the dragon, they also have to do that to make valyrian steel which is why only the qohori can reforge it ||

|| Whether Leanor is alive or not for seasmoke to re-bond with someone else, or if Addam sharing blood with Laenor has something to do with it and why Darklyn couldnt. It was all reset or broken cause the tamer dude sliced his throat, which was a cool little detail ||

[sour pulsar]

||Steffon Darklyn also had distant Valyrian blood unlike Corlys’ bastards.||

||But only Addam was a dragonrider. Not all Valyrians can become one.||

[cerulean glacier]

|| Yeah but Corlys is also Valyrian and has Targ ancestry, and in turn Addam and Alyn ||

[sour pulsar]

That’s why I said Addam could become a dragonrider. He was half Valyrian.

[cerulean glacier]

Oh thought you meant the bastards didnt at all

The funny thing is there's prolly thousands of people around who could claim dragons

Essos has plenty of purple eyed white haired valyrian descendants, from other great families too; though we'll never know

[sour pulsar]

Only very few could. Like people with distant Valyrian blood have it tougher.

By the time of GOT era, it has become even lesser.

[cerulean glacier]

In westeros there's only a handful, Lys is well known for Valyrian blood, its actually where Mysaria is from and she had the Targ look in the books hence the term White Worm

Volantis is also ruled exclusively by Valyrian descendants

At any rate Dany awaking dragons also had to do with her unknowingly making a blood sacrifice with her valyrian infant and 2 others

The dude also looked like he sliced himself with dragonglass/obsidian which was cool

[cerulean glacier]

Essos literally speaks Valyrian, is the old domain of the Valyrian empire etc. etc. and theyre like a gorillion times more exotic and wealthy than westeros which is meant to be some backwater, it was heavily emphasized that it was weird how Aegon 1 went for that instead of reclaiming the continent he was closer to, and it was waiting to be answered

Most fans thought he was convinced by the children of forest but they resolved it in hotd where he was a dreamer

[sour pulsar]

https://fxtwitter.com/culturecrave/status/1815208003702075839?s=46&t=_AWFhpIAIwbUeGd6RdGh0A

[torn valve]

Well I mean

I guess the alicent stuff is cannon now right?

HEY

IT AIN'T HER BROTHER

OR HER COUSIN

OF HER DAD

OR*

They're ain't no problem

and she's above age

One of the only normal relationships in this show

lol

Wait wait

Are they gonna like

Marry her as a consort

Cause now she’s been with both her and Daemond

[pale vigil]

nah

I doubt it

[torn valve]

In the books

nvm nvm

You'll see

[cerulean glacier]

The issue is Rhaenyra didnt tongue punch some random ass background npc but a named character

"Yeah yknow Jacerys and Rhaenys? They fuckin, they fuckin haaaaard"

Ironically it bothered me more Rhaenyra hugged her in the first place

tragic story
omg im so sry 😭 🫂

https://tenor.com/view/joe-biden-presidential-debate-huh-confused-gif-16704157274113773062

[cerulean glacier]

Just realized the dude Rhaenyra slapped was Celtigar

[pale vigil]

as of now, Season 2 Episode 6 is the lowest rated episode on IMDb

I'm glad majority of people think like me

[cerulean glacier]

They're going in fucking circles dawg

Same shit over n over again plot aint moving

[pale vigil]

who goes in circles ?

[cerulean glacier]

The characters

[pale vigil]

oh yeah

definitely

[cerulean glacier]

Issue is theyre only doing 8 ep total, id be kinda ok with the pacing if we had like 12 ep this season

Like if this was the equivalent of ep4 plot wise this season ok maybe

[pale vigil]

I see that we agree

[pale vigil]

this

[cerulean glacier]

Ok yeah same page

Too slow, Rhae and Alic the two representitives of each side saying the same shit we heard last week

Then Rhae giving a wet swirly to Mys like bro what are we doing

[pale vigil]

thank you

[cerulean glacier]

Rhae: no war, we avoid war
Advisors: shawty we losing men and dragons as we speak we gotta do something
Rhae: this cause im a woman aint it
loses something
Advisors: told u 👀
gets bitch slapped

Repeat 3x

[pale vigil]

Rhaenyra is like the CEO that doesn't know what to do and doesn't have knowledge or skills to do it

Alicent is the same but she at least is getting sidelined by her sons

[cerulean glacier]

Honestly I like Daemon scenes, him tripping balls in a scary ass castle is kinda cool but the issue is that he's the only motherfucker trynna do something or move the plot along and it shouldnt take him 6/8 episodes of the season

[pale vigil]

I was okay with him tripping in Harrenhal for one or two episodes, but whole season ???? like wtf ???

[cerulean glacier]

Like said if this was a 12-14 ep season, him taking tripping balls this long would be aight cause each scene he had was atleast different

Unlike Rhae which was literally the same shit

[pale vigil]

look, if it was 10 episodes or more type of season, everything would be fine

but we have only 8 episodes

that's mini series level

[cerulean glacier]

its too slow even for 10 lol, 12 would be gucci

not like itd run the budget either cause its thew cgi n props/sets that eat it

adding a bunch of talking/council/drama scenes on the same sets to get 12ep wouldnt run the budget

just lack of good writing/writers

[pale vigil]

Yeap

[cerulean glacier]

and i heard theyre taking a 2yr break AGAIN

[pale vigil]

lmao

HBO is insane

[cerulean glacier]

i didnt wait 2yrs to see daemon trip balls and do nothing

[pale vigil]

I don't know what to say

if it's just 2 good big episodes and rest of them fillers like they were so far..... damn

HBO needs to invest additional money

[hearty blade]

HOTD is a very expensive show and the behind-the-scenes stuff takes a very long time to make and put together

[cerulean glacier]

i like aegons scenes cause atleast each one moved along

Scene 1: He try to be good king
2: Kid dies emotional damage
3: Dismiss Otto, tries going his own way
4: Bullied by family
5: Does something brave but dumb and roasted
6: Coping with his brother almost killing him and talk with Larys to save him

Plot actually moves

Rhae:

1: avoid war
2: avoid war
3: avoid war
etc. etc.

kill me already

[pale vigil]

I understand that and I still think they should invest a lot more money into it

[pale vigil]

yeap.....

[cerulean glacier]

GoT had a shit load of filler, like 90% of the show was that lowkey the thing was that they were milking GRRM writing so each scene was masterfully crafted dialogue and drama

Like that chaos is a ladder scene was just Varys and Patyr talking in the same costumes, same set they already made had 0 additional cost

Cause they already paid the actors, built sets and bought recording equitment

Deadass? Just inferior writing

[cerulean glacier]

They dont even have to ngl, the expensive part is building sets, cameras, costumes, hiring actors/extras
They already did all that so just more scenes cause motherfucker yall already paid for it and youre only gonna use it for like what a total of 10minute screen time?

[pale vigil]

I guess it's just one of those "Life / reality is often disappointing" moments

[fickle kiln]

two filler eps in a row.. surely these next two will be insane (i hope)

[fickle kiln]

90%? lmao

there’s like 10 eps per season and i’d say each season had about 2-3 filler eps

[sour pulsar]

What the hell

2 years for another season lol. They’re terrible with time.

What’s with modern shows having such long production period. It ruins the flow IMO.

[humble plover]

Well sure but I mean

https://x.com/culturecrave/status/1815832502612943174?s=46&t=eMMffnBeofBy9DaRIz_9FQ

Culture Crave 🍿 (@CultureCrave) on X

#HouseOfTheDragon S2 E6 is currently at a 6.3 on IMDb — the lowest-rated episode in the series

it's being reviewed bombed in Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries

Twitter · Jul 23, 2024, 7:32 PM

It’s being review bombed on account of the kiss

Lol

[pale vigil]

yeah, I know but still

it really is the weakest episode so far

I don't have anything against LGBTQIA+ or any of that

[humble plover]

Not to this level lol

With everyone included

Just Saudi Arabia

Lol

Just America

[pale vigil]

no offense to Saudi Arabia but I really don't care at all at their review bombing just because of kissing

[humble plover]

Agreed

IMDb has become unusable

Same thing happened to The Acolyte

[pale vigil]

episode was the weakest so far but it wasn't 1/10

[humble plover]

It’s no longer a worthwhile metric

It’s too easily skewed

[pale vigil]

it is 5/10 for me

but already that rating is for me very worrying

I want HotD to be good and not dragging and stalling and repeating in cycles

[humble plover]

I have faith what we’re seeing is gonna pay off tbh

We have to see Aemond ruling, Rhaenyra recruiting Dragonseeds and Daemon taming the Riverlands

So all three can climax together

[pale vigil]

They are really serious about diverging from the books

It seems they will change it further and further

[humble plover]

Have they diverged at all yet

[pale vigil]

yeah

[humble plover]

I think they’re still basically on track

They’ve only really added things

Not changed

The beauty of F&B is that it’s written like a history book full of conflicting sources

So it’s very open to interpretation

[pale vigil]

I know

but they still change it

and diverge further even from the unreliable sources

[humble plover]

What have they changed

[cerulean glacier]

I liked show Rhaenyra originally but man this shit is too lame

Writer's cant seem to balance making her moral and competent

I'll just take deranged manchild Rhaenyra from source material

[sour pulsar]

Both the versions are annoying

Readers/Viewers are supposed to find both Rhaenyra and Aegon despicable. I hope now they don’t make Aegon II a sympathetic character in the show due to his injuries.

[cerulean glacier]

Ur takes are ass donnie

Aint nobody on ur wave length

Sympathetic aegon is a vibe

Cant believe they kept him being a pedo child-fight enjoyer thing in the show

[sour pulsar]

It isn’t lol and you have fundamentally misunderstood the series then.

[sour pulsar]

You’ve been objectively wrong time and time again with your sheer bias for the Greens. Let me reiterate, Rhaenyra and Aegon are waste of oxygen that pretty much led to the destruction of House Targaryen over their petty interests. The entire point of the dance was to show they’re incapable of being leaders and very unlikeable as well.

[humble plover]

He’s already sympathetic

[humble plover]

That sounds like a bad point

I prefer the one we have

[sour pulsar]

Because you don’t understand nuance

[humble plover]

“The entire point is they’re incapable of being leaders and very unlikeable as well”

Not much nuance in there

Stop gatekeeping a fake history book bud

[sour pulsar]

That’s what realism is. You’re not supposed to like tyrants are you?

[humble plover]

Lmao

[sour pulsar]

ASOIAF series was influenced by real life events. Not saying it’s real, but many characters in the series are pretty much tyrannical and despicable.

[humble plover]

Sounds pretty boring

I prefer characters with some nuance to their decisions

[sour pulsar]

They have nuance lol

You have never read the books?

[humble plover]

I have actually

[humble plover]

^

[sour pulsar]

Cersei Lannister for example is one of the most nuanced characters in the series. But we know she’s despicable.

[humble plover]

I don’t think Cersei Lannister is despicable

She’s tragic. She’s been forced into an abusive marriage, and takes advantage of it to better serve her kids. Every decision she makes after that makes their lives worse, because she’s been raised into a toxic and sexist household that makes her think she needs to fight everyone at all times always.

She’s actively trying to be a good mother, that’s the core tenet of Cersei

[sour pulsar]

Is your definition of nuance equates to being sympathetic?

[humble plover]

That’s what makes it tragic when her worst impulses takeover

[humble plover]

Not what I said

[sour pulsar]

You don’t have to explicitly state that. I know what you’re trying to say.

[humble plover]

You clearly don’t

Please don’t put words in my mouth

[sour pulsar]

She has always been a terrible person since childhood. Stop making excuses like “Muh sexism and raised in toxic household” when that doesn’t change the fact she’s a terrible woman. Also, she isn’t trying to be a good mother. Aside Joffrey, she didn’t give a crap about her other kids who were good hearted.

She liked Joffrey because he was pretty much mini Cersei

Myrcella and Tommen were too innocent for her liking and she didn’t give a shit about them.

Then with the way she treats her brother Tyrion because he’s a dwarf and blamed him for the death of their mother. The Lannisters IMO who’s truly sympathetic are Tyrion and Jamie.

[humble plover]

Ok

[humble plover]

She absolutely cared about them?

Have you read the books?

Maybe we can do this a different way

[sour pulsar]

I have and it’s you haven’t. Clearly

[humble plover]

I have

Stop being weird

If Rhaenyra and Aegon were, as you said, despicable, unlikeable and wastes of space… what do you see as being the nuance of that?

[sour pulsar]

No you haven’t. Cersei doesn’t really care about anyone else aside her(Jamie and Joffrey excluding). If you couldn’t comprehend that whether it’s Tv series or books, then you’re just ignorant.

[humble plover]

I have read the books, I just interpreted them a little bit less black and white than you

Please stop telling me I haven’t read them

It’s very rude

[humble plover]

I saw that edit, changing your answer cos you know I’m right

[sour pulsar]

I’ll be rude to ignorant people like you. My interpretation of Cersei isn’t black and white. But it doesn’t change the fact she’s despicable.

[sour pulsar]

No you’re wrong lol

You sympathising with a psychopath is your problem

Also I made that edit because I have to explain each and everything to you and it still doesn’t get through your thick skull.

[cunning fox]

My two cents are Cersei’s a horrible person

I never sympathized with her

[sour pulsar]

I swear some people in this server

[cunning fox]

I mean what she does to the Sept come on

She cares about her interests and her interests only even if that means being cruel

[humble plover]

I don’t think this is right

She cares about her kids

No one else, but that’s something

She’s very protective of them, but is also a mentally ill drunk whose ‘protection’ is well deranged

Like at the Sept lol

[humble plover]

@sour pulsar are you gonna bother answering this?

Or is it easier to just sneer at people who disagree with you

Well there you go

[sour pulsar]

I’m not gonna bother answering to you. It’s like talking to a wall.

[humble plover]

You haven’t answered me a single time, you’ve just insulted me

Clearly haven’t got any answers of your own

[sour pulsar]

I did, but you kept ignoring. Stop

The other user here also disagrees with you. You also clearly didn’t read jackshit even though you claim to.

”She cares about her kids”
Yes that one kid who was similar to her and that said kid was basically one of the vilest characters in ASOIAF.

[humble plover]

I replied to the other user because they replied properly

Not just being angry

We can stop don’t worry

Calm yourself

[sour pulsar]

And in the novel A Clash of Kings, it was she who ordered the murder of Robert Baratheon’s bastards which included babies.

[humble plover]

She’s an awful person

Doesn’t mean she can’t have sympathetic elements which enrich the character, and make it more shocking when she continues to choose an evil path

Nuanced characters aren’t binary one way or the other

She has a rationale for her evil, and that’s a very heightened version of mother’s instinct

[sour pulsar]

In the books, she believes it’s justified and thinks herself as a good person.

[humble plover]

Most nuanced characters do

George RR Martin gave her POV chapters. He wouldn’t have done that if he didn’t think there was some humanity to latch onto.

[sour pulsar]

Her complexity doesn’t have anything to do with being sympathetic though because there are things she did which crossed the line. I can understand if you’re talking about characters like Anakin Skywalker, Michael Corleone, Eren Yeager etc, but she isn’t redeemable.

I think the prophecy didn’t play much of a role like it did in the novels.

[humble plover]

Anakin Skywalker also killed a bunch of kids

[sour pulsar]

Yes, he did terrible things.

But, Anakin did redeem in the end. Unfortunately the EU is non canon, but in the novels Darth Vader was always pretty conflicted even prior meeting Luke and didn’t exactly like enjoy being a Sith. His hate for Palpatine made him a better Sith ofc and that led him to do fucked up things, but in the end he was nothing but a slave just like he was as a kid. The Marvel comic series also explores this. Anakin/Vader keeps reminiscing about his past life and what could’ve been if he didn’t serve the Galactic Empire. He’s regretful of his actions and Palpatine is kinda aware of this. Hence, he has tested Vader many times and secretly wanted another apprentice who could fully embrace the dark side.

[torn valve]

Not true

At all

[sour pulsar]

It is

[torn valve]

She made entire polticial moves just to keep them safe.

Martin doesn't seem to agree.

And tbh I think that's a shallow reading of it.

Like extremely

This isn't a comic book bro.

[sour pulsar]

She never truly cared about them aside Joffrey. But, for her power was the ultimate motive. Hell, even her relationship with Jaime was for protection.

[sour pulsar]

Didn’t say it was

[torn valve]

Why do you say that?

What in the passages makes you think the authors point was to make Cersei seem like she doesn't care about her kids?

[sour pulsar]

Because she’s a psychopath who lacks empathy

[torn valve]

She freaks out when Tommen mierly chokes on some water during his wedding

Thinking he's posioned

[torn valve]

Ok?

Two things can be true at once.

[sour pulsar]

The only reason she even pretends to care is because she’s using him.

[torn valve]

Ok....

But hold on.

Are you telling me, with all the interal monolinging about how she wants to protect her son, none of that is indicuative of a mother wanting to protect her children

Hell she gets mad at TYrion for trying to send them away from her

[sour pulsar]

You could say Cersei loved her children like an extension of herself. She never truly loved them like a mother would.

[torn valve]

Oh yeah ded

Def

Definatly

[sour pulsar]

Then why do you think she loved them? It wasn’t genuine per se

[torn valve]

But again, I think even that comes from a place of brutally honest neuacned.

[torn valve]

"per se"

It was still love

She still cared about them, one way or another

Again, not a comic book,

These are very complicated emotions that require a nuanced lens.

[sour pulsar]

You’re forgetting that she also abused him.

Thought he was weak

[sour pulsar]

No it wasn’t

There was nothing genuine about her love

[torn valve]

Nothing?

[sour pulsar]

It’s like saying Logan Roy loved his children lol

[torn valve]

So I guess her going into PTSD

[torn valve]

He did

Logan loved his kids

[sour pulsar]

He truly didn’t. Lol

[torn valve]

BUT

he didn't respect them

The two things aren't mutal

Two things

Can be true

At once

He even says it

"I love you, but you aren't serious people"

Again

You're looking at love through action and not nesscially actual interalizaed feelings.

[sour pulsar]

Someone who really loved their children wouldn’t be such a pathetic parent. Logan Roy like Cersei saw themselves like extensions, but didn’t really care.

[torn valve]

You can love someone and not have the emotional tools to treat them correctly

[torn valve]

Again

[sour pulsar]

No you can’t. That’s not love

[torn valve]

Not black and whitre

[torn valve]

What is love?

Can you define that for me?

Because are we talking about the feelings we have towards people or the expression of it?

[sour pulsar]

I don’t see how they “loved” their children when they were using them for their own gains.

[torn valve]

Reading her internal monologues about her PSTD from Jofferys death, her lemeting and how it makes her more hostile

Yeah I think she had feelings dude

[sour pulsar]

For example Logan Roy blackmailing Kendall. That’s not something a normal father would do who love his kids.

[torn valve]

You're right

HOLD ON

You're right

HE CAN SITLL