#help-10
1 messages · Page 79 of 1
ugh
as in, her statement is correct
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@dark bay Has your question been resolved?
You have a proof of the fact you are trying to prove in front of you?
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Help me with this
<@&286206848099549185>
think about the divisibility test for 11, and extend it to 101
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how to prove this by Induction $\prod_{k=2n}^{3n}1-\frac{1}{k}=\frac{2n-1}{3n}$ should I prove it for $\prod_{k=2(n+1)}^{3(n+1)}1-\frac{1}{k}$ or \prod_{k=2n}^{3n+1}1-\frac{1}{k}$?
Kedi
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the first one
what does it mean to start from $k=2n+2=2(n+1)$?
Kedi
it means the first time in that product is that you sub in is 2(n+1)
if you write out
what terms go into each product
so first term will be $1\frac{1}{2n+2}$ then $1\frac{1}{2n+2+1}$ ... $1\frac{1}{3n+3}$
Kedi
then all multiplied
you will see that you can replace some fo the terms in the k+1th product with the kth product
1 - 1/(2(n+1))
and so on
all multiplied
note that for the kth product
you sub in:
2n
2n + 1
2n + 2 = 2(n+1)
2n + 3 ....
and in the k+1th product
you start at 2n+2 = 2(n+1)
2n + 3 ...
see how you can sub in the kth term product?
so we start with $2n+2$ and I wanna separate the product into $\prod_{k=2(n)}^{3(n)}1-\frac{1}{k}$ and sth. else
Kedi
I am really confused we don't start from $2n$ but $2n+2$ so how can I seperate?
Kedi
@shy bone Has your question been resolved?
<@&286206848099549185>
wdym separate
id advise you write out the sums
for the first few terms and last terms
for the kth step and the k+1th step
and youll see some similarities in the sum
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Hello, how would I mirror x^3 along the line y = -x + 1?
Try it translated first
Then move it back up
It'll be the same graph, and it's going to be a lot easier to reflect over y=x type things
I suppose I could
I just forget my linear algebra
Im trying to generalize something for code
i got it
@undone summit Has your question been resolved?
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Could someone help/teach me how to evaluate this log? I honestly don't know how to even start.
Ok
A log written without a base written is usually meant to refer to log with base 10
So like an unspoken rule like when x has a power of 1
Yeah well, except that it is not a "rule" nor is it uniform
Some people mean it as base e, some people mean it as base 2
Depends on the context of your class
But most usually base 10 yes
Ok
Anyhow, this is just $log_{10}4 -log_{10}10$
♡LexQa♡
♡LexQa♡
Log 1?
Not quite
think of it this way
It can be rewritten in exponential form to be
$\log_{10}10 = x \iff 10^x = 10$
What number x do you think suits this equality
1
Yeah
♡LexQa♡
So the answer is just 1
For $\log_{10}4$ you can't do much except simplify it by rewriting $4 = 2^2$
♡LexQa♡
And taking the exponent down, like you said
So using rules of exponents kinda
♡LexQa♡
@late rose Has your question been resolved?
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Can someone please help me?
I'm stuck on f derivative differentiability
Is f' differentiable at 0? Prove or disprove.
F(x) = x^2 if x>=0 and 0 if x<0
So, for differentiability we have:
Lim x-> x_0 (f(x)-f(x_0))/(x-x_0)
But I'm not sure how to use this for f' and piecewise f(x)
this is the definition of a derivative, not differentiability
for a function to be differentiable at a point x_0 it has to be:
continuous at x_0
it’s derivative at x_0 exists
so the derivative of a piecewise function can be found by deriving the function piecewise
so what would f’ be in your case?
f'=2x
that’s for x>=0
Oh yes
And 0 for x<0
Yes
do the derivatives from the left and right approach the same value?
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I need to decide X
SOH CAH TOA
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joyousbanana
i dont understand this step
Combining the coefficients of $\frac{dy}{dx}\frac{d^{2}y}{dx^{2}}$
chartbit
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What number gives a result of −3 when 8 is subtracted from the quotient of the number and 5?
Im not really good with these kinds of word problems if someone could help me that would be great!
(x/5)-8=-3
Wouldnt -3 be at the beginning?
Just trying to understand it
Oh alright
So whenever it asks "From the qoutient of the number and 5" will 5 be at the bottom of whatever unknown is there?
I mean will it always
@earnest bear Has your question been resolved?
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I need help with part b
so i set up the equation as the following
factor out the 2
then it becomes
but dont those two just cancel out
its subtracting intself
when I check the answers it becomes
and I dont know if im forgetting a rule or something
This is the solution that the textbook gives me
but I dont follow how we go from step 1 to step 2
you have 4*(stuff) - (stuff) = 3*(stuff)
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Consider the function fAgiven by y = a1 + ax° + ba? + ex + d, where a, b, c and d are constant numbers.
The graph of f is symmetric about the y-axis and its zeros are -1, 0 and 1. Determine the values of the constant numbers a, b, c and d.
.close
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help??
have you tried using the algorithm
eh how do you use it?
look it up
I dont really understand this topic
so look up the algorithm and read
what about it dont you understand
whats the first step
If Euler’s Theorem indicates the existence of an Euler path or Euler circuit, one can be found using the following procedure:
If the graph has exactly two odd vertices choose one of these odd vertices as the starting point of an Euler path. If the graph has no odd vertices it has an Euler circuit. In this case, choose any vertex as the starting point.
okay so does the graph have any odd vertices
they all look the same too, idk how to tell
okay well you should go and look up the definition of an odd vertex
or the degree of a vertex
go and find the definition
i assure you that if you read the definition you will understand it
im not going to do things for you
what does it say
the points where two or more line segments or edges meet
thats what they gave me
but thats not what i asked you to find
highest point
?
what? are you just guessing words now?
scroll up and look at what i asked you to look up
and look that thing up
this is what came up y, a vertex is odd or even based on the number of edges touching it
right
there we go
so now you are you able to see if any of the vertices in your problem are odd
even if an even number of edges are touching it
odd if an odd number of edges are touching it
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?
Show your work
Do you have to use epsilon delta definition for continuity?
because if it's the limit one, you can clearly state, lim_{x -> 0} f(x) = 0
(ヘ・_・)ヘ┳━┳
i'm not sure that's something you can say is 'clear' haha
plus limit definition and epsilon delta definition are basically the same
why though (@_@;) f(x) = x for rationals as x tends to 0 is not 0?
i think so but not 100% sure
in- in- intuitively??? Alright, let's write f(x) = p/q in simplest form, for x = rationals... then as q -> +infty, x -> 0, f(x) -> 0 is that fine now?
no
🤕
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ da heck, It's 0 for irrational numbers
(which you can kinda do but that also requires explanation)
ohhh you mean I'm not explaining why it's 0 not at any other place except for 0?
that wasn't my motive though >_< I was only explaining the part why f(x) is continuous at 0
if you're trying to use sequential continuity, you need to prove the limit is 0 for any sequence, not just a sequence of all rational or all irrational numbers
Hmm . how'd you suggest to start?
you can skimp out on working from a definition of continuous for showing it's continuous at 0 with squeeze theorem
but it's not hard to do from definition either
take an arbitrary sequence a_n --> 0 in R, and then consider limsup and liminf of f(a_n)
oh that probably doesnt work bc negatives

squeeze doesnt sound like a bad idea
i would not really recommend anything other than epsilon-delta definition lol
yeah thats the definition i probably understand the most
but squeezing between $x\mapsto 0$ and $x\mapsto x$ for showing it's continuous at 0 is ok
💜𝓁𝒶𝓎𝓁𝒶💜
how would you suggest starting off this way?
pick a point x other than 0
then think about a neighborhood around x
the function will evaluate to 0 in some places and something very close to x at others
soooo
choose epsilon = |x|/2 or something
how'd you get epsilon = |x|/2?
i didn't say that but i got it from the intuition just before it lol
and actually that's only good for rational numbers
i do want |x|/2
(ヘ・_・)ヘ┳━┳
hmmmm density
anyways,
here's what you can do for x -> 0
|f(x) - f(0)| ≤ |x - 0| ≤ |x|,
so, for all epsilon > 0, there exists delta = epsilon such that if |x| < delta, |f(x) - f(0)| < epsilon
therefore f is continuous at x = 0
if you were supposed to use ep-delta definition
@opal sun Has your question been resolved?
ok yeah i think i can get it now thank you
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what happened to the ln(n) and ln(n+1)?
As n -> ∞, ln(n + 1) ≈ ln(n)
@mellow compass Has your question been resolved?
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how does the u substition work. how does x become 2u in this case. I understand how u substition works i just dont understand how its been applied here
When you do the substitution, you get a constant * ∫ 1/(u² + 1) du, which is a standard integral
However, if you're like me and don't like remembering inverse trig integrals, you can also do a trig sub
but where does the 2 come from
you're probably expected to know that the integral of 1/(1 + x^2) is arctan(x)
this is why you want to put it into that form
yeah i understand that
but i just dont understand where the 2u came from
because in u substition dont u have to take the derivative of what ur substituting
to put the denominator into the form of (1 + something^2)
u = x
du = 1 dx
dx = du
x = 2u
dx = 2 du
Yes
so if i wanted to i could do x = 23492384u
Wouldn't do much good, but yes
You could do sin(x) = e^(u²)
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<@&286206848099549185>
partial fraction decomp
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I need to prove that the area of σ is this using the Stoke's theorem.
I don't know how to start. 😦
@earnest knot Has your question been resolved?
<@&286206848099549185>
@earnest knot Has your question been resolved?
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@clear leaf Has your question been resolved?
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Determine the image distance and image height for a 5.0cm tall object placed 48.0 cm from a converging lens having a focal length of 24.0cm
Would I use the maginification formula to solve this??
wait nvm I got it
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i’m confused on how to set it up
You have some vibration / seconds
And you have some seconds
Multiply the 2 to get vibrations / seconds * seconds = vibrations
thanks
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Can you only make phase portraits for autonomous ODE's and not non-autonomous?
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<@&286206848099549185>
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<@&286206848099549185>
@cursive citrus Has your question been resolved?
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Can someone able to help me to answer this question?
@steady flint Has your question been resolved?
Anyone there :((
@steady flint Has your question been resolved?
@steady flint Has your question been resolved?
Omg thank you
I love the little face
lol hope it helped 👍
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so which one is it?
what do you think
im stuck
where
whole thing
ah so its c
it should be, yes
i think it'll be a
b*
see, you take out the constant, i.e., 1/3
then take log of 1/y

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can someone help me understand the quadratic eq line
what do you not understand
how to bracket it
i know it will be (w^2 -8) (w^2 + 1)
dont know how to include rest
<@&286206848099549185>
@vital frost Has your question been resolved?
what are my a,b,c values
@vital frost Has your question been resolved?
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can someone help me with this problem
i have solved all the equations but now i am stucked on how to get values of x
Vaibhav
$x = \frac{-b \pm \sqrt{b^2 - 4ac}}{2a}$
Sry I typed something here
Yes
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Hi, What is the multiplicative inverse of x=17 modulo 231?
hello can someone help out?
how do I calculate it
Ive found a google calculator but do not understand the concept behind it
Euclids algorithm to get bezouts identity
I'll look into it, I got 68 do you think thats right
,w 17*68 mod 231
thanks
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$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \sin(\frac{n\pi}{2})$
sumduck
figure out what all the terms are by looking at the first four
next look at the partial sums
i kidna forgot what those are
is it like what it adds to as you go on?
1, 1, 0, 0, 1...?
yeah
remember that the value of the series is defined to be the limit of the partial sums
but the partial sums just alternate between 0 and 1 right
if the partial sums diverge then the series diverges
wait so the limit is infinity?
diverge = limit does not exist
wait so i was right here?
yes
oh okay lol ty
is there an easier way
like a test
i can do?
or should i just check the partial sums for any series
isnt this already pretty easy? at least for this series?
yes it was
well there are tests for other series, sure
is there one for this one
comparison test, integral test, stuff like that
bc on my sample exam it asks for test used
I guess the integral test would also work here. kinda. but why overcomplicate it
I mean you use tests for series where the partial sums are too hard
doesnt the integral test need decreasing
does it? ok nvm then. it's been some time since I've used it
oh okay
write "test used: direct application of definition"
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Is 3.141414 to the infinite a rational number?
what is 0^0
1
actually, just dont 0^0
Yes, it's 311/99
Yeah, it is defined as 1
how did you know its not?
is not what
rational
its a fraction
ight cool but what is -1-1
get your own help channel my son
ah I think I see how you did it
Then explain it to me 🙂
excuse me because I'm not a native english speaker so its gonna be hard
but theres 3.14
which goes on forever
but we select the 14 which is the one thats repeating
and put this into an equation
x=3.1414
If you know german you can speak it, too
Well, I thought because of your name
Yes, that's the idea
A more rigorous way of doing this is geometric series, but that works, too (That's how I got to the answer)
x=311/99
but I still dont understand what those Z and N were
we dont use those
or at least I didnt hear it lol
Z is the symbol for integers and N the symbol for the natural numbers (actually the symbol is slightly different but I don't know command by heart)
It's still down or down again?
dunno
Because I've tried it some days before and it didn't work then
I think I understand everything now
nah it worked earlier today. it's not down for that long
and if one of the division numbers were irrational then the fraction would also be irrationay correct?
Then you couldn't write it like that
The proof that something is irrational is more work
well I mean you just prove its rational
if you can
all right thank you guys
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hello can you help out with a question
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we have 7 items (lets say squares, does not matter)
3 are red, 2 are blue, 2 are green
we are choosing 4
what are the odds of choosing at least one green and one blue
I feel like I am on the right track, since I got the result somehow, but I dont get the logic. If given a different problem I'd be lost
So far my ideas were to either get the complemetary odds somehow, which I did by complete randomness or just get the "real odds", but there I am lost too
the at least one in both Green and Blue keep messing me over
I am starting to doubt the result I got
yea no I have no clue
<@&286206848099549185> save my dumbass please
so the complement is (no green ∪ no blue)
or correct
right makes sense
you get no green if you do 5 choose 4
and you get no blue if you do 5 choose 4
and they don't intersect, (no green no blue) is 3 choose 4 which is 0
we're counting the complement, A ∪ B = A + B − A&B
if your choice has no blue, it's some combination of green and red, and you find it immediately as (3+2) choose 4
ohh right makes sense
i didn't know it would work until it did, was just trying random stuff
or wait maybe I am still lost
sure
ahhh
I can so clearly see the logic but I cant apply it for some reason
Do you think its maybe possible to use this somehow?
It feels similar
wait, that this, but less "developed", no?
that's not good at all
it's when the "shape" is fixed, you don;t just have Cola and Pepsi but specifically 2+2
we have 3+1 and 2+2 as two options to get e.g. red+blue
cuz technically right
2 green + 2 blue is also good
or like 2 green 1 blue 1 red
cuz it's at least
but that favorable, not complementary
mb
somehow slipped into favorable
there's not really any alternative to what i did
R
G
B
RG
RB
GB +
GRB +
these are all possible compositions
the first three are all 0
there's not enough balls to have single color pick
we want to add GB + RGB
we don't know how, we look for the rest of it instead, RG+RB
no blue R no green
no blue G
B no green
no blue RG
RB no green
GB
GRB
and the formula you showed doesn't help
we don;t know how many of each composes RG or RB
but we can simply choose 4 from the sum (3+2)
like i don't have a feeling that this is very clear, but also there's probably not a better way
like it's very helpful that there's no way to get single color, we'd have to just deal with those too otherwise
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Hello?

Hello, what is y < - 15x + 3000
y < 5x?
y < -15x + 3000 is already as simplified as possible
i guess you can factor out 15 or something, but that's not any better
He's riemann after all
who's riemann
me?
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I want to ask about logarithms, how to find a characteristic, and mantissa
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If i were to say common log 232.92 what is the characteristic and mantissa and how to find it?
characteristic and mantissa which are used to find the answer on the logarithm table
well find the two closest powers of 10 to 232.92
the characteristic part is easy but then the mantissa part
okay well you could've said you already knew the characteristic
ok the mantissa is hard do you know how to find it?
use a calculator
the book is asking to find the mantissa specifically, how do i find it on the calculator
well if you can use a calculator then literally just compute log(232.92)
ok that part is understood but if using the logarithm table how can i find it using that?
write 232.92 as x*1O^n
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I need help with a fourier transform
These are the properties I'm working with, but my workings aren't matching the solution that my teacher posted
Posted solution:
my suggestion would be to try to put your g(t) into the form 2a / (a^2 + w^2)
and use the inverse transform property
So I've written the numerator as 2(3) + 4
and I can use the third identity there
but then what do I do about the second term
btw, does the instructor's checkmarks and 4 mean that you got full credit?
This is another students work, I did not get this correct on the test
but even in this students solution, which the teacher took and uploaded as the solution, the +4 just seems to disappear
ah i see thx
lemme do a quick read over the student's solution, one moment
i think the $2(3) + 4$ is a bit of a red herring, but i do agree that setting $2a = 10$ and $a^2 = 9$ are inconsistent, so this isn't quite right. i would simply do:
$$\frac{10}{t^2 + 9} = \frac{10}{6} \frac{6}{t^2 + 9}$$
Bungo
Yeah that makes much more sense to do
which would then lead to the student's solution, except the right solution would have a 10/6 scale factor in front
exactly
I changed the numerator to 6 already and am getting the same answer as the student
Ok, so there is an error in the solution
Ok, i'll do out some workings and send them here, I have another question
ok
@gilded needle are there any flaws in the steps that I took to get to this solution, or is there a more logical or more legible process?
everything looks all right, the only suggestion i have is that it's a bit confusing that you're using g and G to denote more than one pair of functions, maybe on the second line, call that function something like F(t) instead of G(t)?
You mean like where I'm just declaring some identities I'm using, might as well just change the letters for clarity
?
yeah, maybe use different letters there, and just reserve g and G for the original function and its Fourier transform
it'll just make things a bit clearer
Yeah I do like that better
The question and the table are both G's but they don't necessarily have to be
yea i know it's common to reuse letters like that, but there are plenty of letters to choose from 😀
Thanks for your help ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ I've been going crazy over this because the solution seemed clearly wrong, and nobody in my class would respond to me
So now I'm convinced they're just more lost than me
no problem, and you were absolutely correct
How do I close the channel
.close
.close
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im confused as to how the above matrix is the form that a skew symmetric matrix comes in
isnt it ( a b| -b c)?
A^T = -A, right?
ye
that forces the diagonal elements to satisfy a_ii = -a_ii, which is only true if a_ii = 0
haha no worries
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Can someone explain to me this extension of the arc length Calc 3 formula?
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shouldnt C be d?
its b but i thought the dimension of the VS would be the dimension of R4
im also confused for E
i think the reason its d is because a,b,c all are closed under addition and multiplication and are non empty
but i cant understand why d isnt asubspace of V
Is 0 in U\V?
ah
okay
just to check, is it closed under addition and multiplication , U\V that is
No - assuming that U has an element u which isn't in W, then -u is also not in W (otherwise closure of W would give you that u was in W), but their sum u + (-u) is zero, which is in W
In other words, u, (-u) are in U\W, but 0 = u + (-u) is not in U\W
okay and what about this one
i thought the R4 is one of the ways to indicate the dimension of V
it's at most dimension 4 but can be lower
For this one, I believe (if my steps are correct) you can express $a = c + 2d$ and $b = -2c - 3d$
chartbit
by observation note that 1+4 = 2+3
so (a,b,c,d) = (1,-1,-1,1) satisfies both restrictions
then you have 2 vectors forming your basis so it's at most dimension 2
but they're lin.independent so it is dimension 2
oh yeah chart's the rigorous way :p
i got lazy and just wanted to plug 1/-1 to get a solution
so if 2 of (a,b,c,d) are +1 and the other two -1 you get a+b+c+d=0
and you work a little bit harder to make that suit a+2b+3c+4d=0
but no if you isolate a in the first equality and b in the second you get chartbit's sol and that's the sound way to do it
is r4 the field
$\mathbb{R}$ is the field, but $\mathbb{R}^{4}$ is the vector space
chartbit
so what does Fn mean
Is there context behind that? I'm assuming the finite field of n elements
well when i see it written its F^n
Ohh I see - basically if $F$ is the field, then $F^{n}$ is a vector space of "coordinates" $(a_1, \ldots, a_n)$, where each of the $a_i$ are in the original field $F$
chartbit
I'm guessing that there may be some cases where you're considering real vector spaces and complex vector spaces in particular
okay i am just sturggling to understand the rules about size of basis and dimension specifically
i thought the dimension 5 means that the basis has to be of 5 elementrs
then b would be correct right?
Remember the definition/requirements of a basis - you need to be both linearly independent and span the vector space
One direction of this is true: if you're a basis, then you have 5 elements
But the other isn't necessarily: you can have a set of 5 vectors that aren't linearly independent, and therefore don't form a basis
ah okay
so a spanning set must also have 5 or more elements rihgt?
and c would be knocked out, cause a set with 6 elements no longer can be LI for a VS
Yeah - a spanning set must have (at least) 5 elements
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so for d i got 9.4608x10^12 and for c i got 7.56x10^9
however the answers say its wrong can someone tell me where i messed up
maybe just try again?
i tried that
i dont think im doing anything wrong
i just want to know if im wrong or if theres a typo in the book
i think d is correct but not c
clue for c: if one day has 24 hours, how many hours does a week have? ans should be 1.81e11
d seems right though
1.8144*10^11?
yeah
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A set of 36 people are standing in a room on positions defined by an 6x6 grid. Each person decides to turn to exactly one of their neighbors and other to shake their hand. A handshake only takes place if two people turn and face each other. What is the the probability that two specfic neighbors end up shaking hands? What is the expected number of handshakes? (A person can see front, back, left, right)
@timid silo Has your question been resolved?
@timid silo Has your question been resolved?
@timid silo Has your question been resolved?
What have you tried
Number of people in the room: 36
Probability of two neighbors shaking hands: 1/4
Expected number of handshakes:
36 x 1/4 = 9 handshakes
For two specific neighbors to end up shaking hands, both of them must turn towards each other. The probability that this happens is 1/4, since each person has four possible directions to turn in.
The expected number of handshakes is the number of people in the room (36) multiplied by the probability of two neighbors shaking hands (1/4). This gives 36/4 = 9 handshakes?
@dark stirrup
do the ones on the border of the grid only have 2 or 3 options to turn to?
cus it seems like yes when i read the q but the first part would depend a lot on which specific neighbors it is
so no? they can face nothing?
Honestly I am not too sure, I know just as much as you
About what the problem. asks for
I would imagine they can't face nothing as it states they turn to one of their neighbors
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We know that $\log_3(2x+1)$ cannot be expanded any further. But any rigorous explanation?
Genshin is Mid.
Well I mean you could rewrite that as log_3(x + 1/2) + log_3(2) for the sake of expanding, why not?
lol obviously but not that
Now that I think about it
what even is expanding lol
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State the unknown (?) in these quadratic graphs:
how do u solve these types of questions?
It looks like it's symmetric about the y-axis which would mean that the second solution may be the same distance from the origin as the first
so -3?
-3 i guess
Is that like
all that you were given?
Then yeah I guess u can only really assume symmetry
With that given information I think just making the conjecture that it's -3 based on its symmetry is all you can do
Not much else to do
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$Log (\sqrt{ab}/c)=log (ab)^{1/2} - log (c) \newline \rightarrow \frac{1}{2}log(ab) - log (c) \rightarrow \frac{1}{2} log(ab/c)$
All of this right?
𝓐𝓡𝓝𝓐𝓑 𝓟𝓐𝓛
No
What is the mistake here?
@tawny fog Has your question been resolved?
<@&286206848099549185> which concept is not right here
What's wrong in that?
anand
Hi can I get some help
Oh ok
And another thing there's a problem that I m having it says
Write log (40) in the terms of log (5) give the approx answer if log(5)=0.69
Hm
Ohhhh got it
Hmm lemme try
Ok
And the question dosen't says it is log_e or log_10
So yeah
So much less information for that
That's what I did as well
But we don't know log2 naa

Yes
@tawny fog here's one hint
We will use log base 10
Because log(base10)5 has the value of 0.69
Whereas log(baseE)5 has the value of 1.6
Yes
I also thought about that
And I get
2-log5² - log 10
= 2 - 2 log 5 - 1
= 1- 2×0.69
Right
Log 100=2
Haa
,w 1-2×0.69
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Still thanks
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Oii @tawny fog
Ya did a bery smol mistake
Bery bery smollll
Ya here?
Broo 💀💀
Ping me when ya here @tawny fog
Yeee
Previously ya forgot abt the brackets that's y ya got the wrong answer lul
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Yems thanks


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I need help
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X
Exactly
Ok i get it
Bro this is a help channel 💀💀💀💀
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Hey guys, i noticed some terminologies in lectures and textbooks when it comes to math operations and wanted to confirm what they meant.
For eg, weighted is used for multiplication
I dont understand why averaged with is used for addition though