i saw some of his old transphobic clips
#serious-discussion
vivid halo
yeaaa that's the one I'm talking about
vast surge
I used to watch Vaush when he had like 5k subscribers back in 2019 or whatever, but his style didn't appeal to me back then.
Does he still just let whatever random reactionaries onto his stream just to be like a left-wing Ben Shapiro?
vivid halo
kinda yea
light needle
so i think vaush is very useful to left movement
cause like while i think debates are BS
vivid halo
I mean to be fair the "debate streams" format is literally the lowest form of political content
light needle
its the only way to move over right wingers/"moderates"
I probably would not like vaush irl
debate bros are crigne
light needle
but he has a place in the ecosystem of left streamers ig
velvet dagger
Honestly you should just listen to me rant about my thoughts
vivid halo
lmfao did you see people losing their shit about Hasan
vast surge
I would rather just listen to video essayists like Mia or Natalie
I think Natalie is ContraPoints, who's Mia?
vivid halo
Mia Mulder
velvet dagger
Max can confirm I'm actually an amazing speaker
vivid halo
Hasan is one of the most popular leftist streamers and people lost their shit when they realized he's rich
okay to be fair he did buy uhhh
a $2.7 million house
vivid halo
yea I mean in the area that's just normal
deep mango
imagine not being rich
neat lintel
where does he live? 2.7 million is not even that much depending on where you are
vast surge
Also a couple million dollars is nothing compared to the excesses of global capitalism.
astral marsh
it's 3800sqft
vast surge
2.7 million can get you a broom closet in Brooklyn these days.
light needle
I like hasan
vivid halo
yea same
vast surge
(monthy rent, that is)
cold needle
dudes got a normal to little large sized house and ppl getting mad
light needle
then he shouted at me in chat
cold needle
3800 not like crazy i think
light needle
it was v fun
vivid halo
like I think it's unreasonable people are saying like "he has an obligation to spend all of his earnings from streaming donating to charity instead of buying a house"
cold needle
crazy
light needle
this is like pure class jelousy
vivid halo
yea literally
light needle
these people would do the same
vast surge
The issue isn't that people have houses, it's that people can't afford houses
vivid halo
ironic this happened a week or two after Envy came out
vast surge
this is like pure class jelousy
More like envy.
vast surge
contrapoint predicted this
Contrapoints predicts everything.
Also the costume design is amazing in her videos I feel like that's the most important thing that nobody talks about
vast surge
Where I'm from people just talk about her political stances and philosophical ideas
astral marsh
speaking of that, i am planning on getting a bit more into fashion in college
vivid halo
god he literally looks like gigachad
astral marsh
I've never bought my own clothes
I don't mind my current clothes but they're very simple
vivid halo
nice are you looking to change your style or just make it a bit nicer?
vast surge
Get shirts with buttons and collars
astral marsh
I like casual athletic wear as well as more formal stuff like blazers and bowties and dress shirts and such
vast surge
The second my parents stopped buying my clothes and I made my own fashion choices I stopped wearing T-Shirts, and I say good riddance.
vast surge
I like casual athletic wear as well as more formal stuff like blazers and bowtie...
Get a sport jacket, meet in the middle.
astral marsh
I mostly just have plaid button downs, solid colored t shirts, tank tops, shorts, and jeans currently
I'd like to get some graphic tees
vast surge
I mostly just have plaid button downs, solid colored t shirts, tank tops, shorts...
Oh god are you a grunge band?
light needle
ok tbh my fashion is p bad kek
vivid halo
so like, getting a few oxford cloth buttondowns and some decent leather shoes to go with good quality denim is really hard to fuck up
light needle
but everytime i see something i wanna buy the price makes me scared
vivid halo
that's good thing to have in your wardrobe
vast surge
I don't really like denim, I'd rather wear corduroys.
narrow rock
I prefer no clothes.
this is the way
astral marsh
I think @jovial ember has interesting clothes so like maybe that but not $999999k
vast surge
Also corduroys look better and are more comfortable and can be dressed down but are way easier to dress up
vivid halo
Chmonkey has a fucking cool fashion sense
astral marsh
I want to try different stuff and see what I like
vast surge
Like, cords, an OCBD, a tie and a sweater is a great way to do like a smart casual.
vivid halo
I need to get more band shirts I have none right now
vivid halo
Like, cords, an OCBD, a tie and a sweater is a great way to do like a smart casu...
no tie
otherwise yes this is good
vast surge
Always tie
narrow rock
I wear a tshirt and shorts
vivid halo
v neck sweater on top of oxford cloth is really good for fall and winter
narrow rock
a hoodie if it's chilly
astral marsh
I remember getting an app for learning different tie knots in middle school because I went to a strict dress code school
vivid halo
nobody wears a tie with that unless they are weird
or are doing something more formal
astral marsh
I learnt both the Windsor and the half Windsor
vast surge
Ties add a lot of flair to an otherwise plain outfit
narrow rock
tshirt and a tie
vast surge
I have lots of ties with flowers on them
vivid halo
yes, they add a "this person is weird and takes themselves too seriously" vibe
astral marsh
Ties add a lot of flair to an otherwise plain outfit
Naked and a tie
vivid halo
like there's a time and place for them
vast surge
Very casual ties, that I would not wear to something formal
light needle
yeah ties are pretensious to me kek
vivid halo
I guess if you make it work you make it work
astral marsh
Suit and tie with another tie on top
vivid halo
but they definitely have a message associated to them
narrow rock
Naked and a tie
my sternum gets cold sometimes okay
vast surge
Ties are the youth's rebellion to our t-shirt wearing gen X parents
astral marsh
my sternum gets cold sometimes okay
I don't know what that is but just wear more ties there
vivid halo
just for the love of god do not wear bow ties
brave hollow
bow tie > tie
light needle
l;maooo bow ties
vast surge
Also don't wear belts, if you need to hold up your pants, wear suspenders/braces.
vivid halo
STEAL HIS LOOK!!
light needle
oh god
brave hollow
he looks fresh
astral marsh
I think maybe I will get a fashion nerd gf and ask her for clothing recs
vast surge
I really hate Cucker Tarlson.
light needle
tucker has basically been defending the taliban the past few days
astral marsh
Fucker
vast surge
I think maybe I will get a fashion nerd gf and ask her for clothing recs
No choose your own fashion
nimble shuttle
did you see the clip about the orange president
brave hollow
@vast surge I would like to say unless you were trolling , you have good taste in fashion , ignore those who can't achieve the same sense of style as you
astral marsh
Was trolling
vast surge
<@!326954635287855104> I would like to say unless you were trolling , you have g...
I am not trolling.
I do genuinely wear ties most days.
@light needle has seen me on video once or twice on vc and can attest
light needle
oh yeah kek
vivid halo
if it makes you confident and you like it, then there's no problem 
light needle
i mean it fits u kinda ig
astral marsh
I know a kid who always wears ties too
narrow rock
there's a dude here who wears a full tux everyday
astral marsh
Based
light needle
Unironically i used to lack confidence
vivid halo
okay that's a bit much lmfao
light needle
b4 i put on a leather jacket
narrow rock
im not joking
light needle
ok thats v cringe
astral marsh
Club penguin type beat
vast surge
there's a dude here who wears a full tux everyday
Don't wear tuxedos during the daytime, they're semiformal night wear.
astral marsh
Ok mom
vast surge
If you want daytime black tie, wear a stroller suit
astral marsh
Wtf is a stroller suit
vast surge
wild lantern
You should wear a suit every day
Mainly so I am more comfortable than you relatively speaking.
light needle
oh arch wanna hear something funny
vast surge
You should wear a suit every day
I tend to mix-and-match sport jackets and nice trousers during colder months; way more optionality than suits
light needle
I had a chem class today, and my prof said that
group theory is a topic in physics
wild lantern
I just wear jeans a t-shirt and a hoodie moat days.
If it'a cold I'll wear a long sleeve shirt or something.
vast surge
group theory is a topic in physics
Hi i am physicist
narrow rock
shorts > jeans
wild lantern
shorts > jeans
This is wrong.
vivid halo
group theory is a topic in physics
wigner classification moment
jeans > shorts unless you live in Georgia and it's not winter
vast surge
Depends on the jeans, depends on the shorts.
narrow rock
LA doesnt have a winter
light needle
shorts feel wierd to me
I feel like the legs are the least attractive part of a person
wild lantern
I wear shorts to sleep or sit around at home.
light needle
no need to show it off to the world
vast surge
I think something like chino shorts are better than distressed jeans for summertime attire, and also in general.
wild lantern
If I have to do anything else I wear some jeans.
wild lantern
Slacks are okay.
narrow rock
brave hollow
have you ever smelled a sole?
vast surge
Wait shit it makes me sound like a weird foot fetishist when I say that
wild lantern
Ur secret is safe w/ me
vast surge
I rescind my pun
light needle
i mean feet are nice
narrow rock
#feet
vast surge
Trousers are the best
vast surge
You can wear trousers on your legs, or you can wrap the legs of the trousers around your neck and wear them like a cape
wild lantern
vast surge
Thursday
wild lantern
If you need a scarf but only have pants.
vast surge
No you can't use trousers as a scarf only a cape
wild lantern
I don't see any cops around to stop me.
light needle
I don't see any cops around to stop me.
ryc
vast surge
You can wear trousers on your legs, or you can wrap the legs of the trousers aro...
this explains it @brave hollow
vivid halo
deep mango
wild lantern
Scram, the fuzz is here!
deep mango
fuzzy logic
wild lantern
Luzzy fogic
deep mango
fuzzy wuzzy was a bear. fuzzy wuzzy had no hair. fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he?
wild lantern
Perhaps 
jovial ember
I think <@146419489083228160> has interesting clothes so like maybe that but not...
Why was I @‘ed
Why the 9999999k?
Is it just saying my clothes r expensive
neat lintel
I have also heard that you are a baller
crystal stone
UT Austin just sent me an email regarding my next interview which included back and forth emails with another candidate for the position
I looked at their linkedin, they ain't stand a chance against the moonbears
neat lintel
As in, they included those emails on accident?
I feel like that's like a moderate size fuck up
clever knot
Do most people use LinkedIn? Are there other alternatives sites people might use
At least the ones who are trying to sure their past history of jobs , schooling, etc
jovial ember
astral marsh
<:monkey:651816857153699840>
ok fr tho if you have any cheaper brands lmk im actually trying to rehaul my wardrobe for college
jovial ember
There’s a lot but it depends on what u wanna wear lol
astral marsh
i wanna experiment
rancid meadow
arch in full rick pls
jovial ember
Lmfaooo Jesse
astral marsh
speak english
rancid meadow
just use grailed 
jovial ember
Idek how to explain what full Rick looks like
You look like the drippiest homeless guy
Sort of
rancid meadow
just go shop at thrift stores or something arch
astral marsh
lol
jovial ember
But not quite
rancid meadow
thats the cheapest way to look interesting
astral marsh
good idea
rancid meadow
you just need to spend a lot of time
astral marsh
ive gotten some decent stuff from thrift shops
jovial ember
Also Arch my real suggestion is to start slow
rancid meadow
and go with a friend who has a better eye than you if you arent familar with how to dress xd
jovial ember
And I would look for higher quality shit that can last
I don’t always buy mad expensive zipper pants
astral marsh
its not that i dont have an eye per se its just i have never bought any of my own clothes
and i am also unfamiliar with all the terminology and the brands and so forth
jovial ember
But I don’t really buy super cheap fast fashion anymore because I just won’t wear it that much
Yeah arch if you don’t want to wear clothes to flex don’t worry about brands IMO
astral marsh
i dont lmao i just want casual stuff that still looks cool enough
jovial ember
Almost bought a pair
vast surge
I got some nice shirts the other day from Macy's
jovial ember
But instead got one that’s like a bit cheaper but IMO better
Wyatt’s aren’t even like Blake stitches lol
astral marsh
vast surge
It was slightly pricey but they're really good shirts that should last a while
jovial ember
Archsys Gura fit
leaden torrent
archsys
if i saw someone wearing that
i would make a mental note to never talk with them
astral marsh
lol
jovial ember
If you want the shirt get it lol
astral marsh
@leaden torrent
jovial ember
I just wouldn’t wear it in public
astral marsh
this is on my laptop
astral marsh
sure
gura album cover then
@jovial ember anyways do you have any brand recs
besides like thrift shops which is a good idea sure
sick burrow
I still really like my idea of DSotM shirts but the rainbow is recolored to be a pride flag
narrow rock
saucony
astral marsh
these all sound like deez nuts jokes
sick burrow
Like a specific pride flag not just the rainbow
jovial ember
Hmmm, idk most of the brands I like the most cost $$$ and the rest I just pick up randomly. You could try Uniqlo if you just want to look like a normie
narrow rock
saucony is a shoe brand
sick burrow
Oh the topic of fashion though I have recently discovered the power of scarfs
Scarves?
astral marsh
yeah it'll be scarf time soon
jovial ember
I wanted to buy stuff from the SS 2020 Undercover collection
Tfw they’re like 1k and 4K
astral marsh
i have a really nice alpaca wool scarf my mom gifted me
jovial ember
astral marsh
i guess i could wear that
leaden torrent
i exclusively buy gucci underwear
sick burrow
I mean like super lightweight scarfs that you don't need to wear in the winter
neat lintel
i think it's scarfs, for example, "the young boy scarfs down the food"
sick burrow
Like silk and the like
jovial ember
Dries van Noten
I would wear CDG if my brain was big enough
And if my wallet was big enough
leaden torrent
scarves and scarfs are different words
jovial ember
Also Yohji
I wish I bought that one thing
But 600 dollars
What do you mean Slim it’s just a little heart
No
Pls
Archsys should just eboy fashion IMO
It’s like a season late
But he can say it’s like some cool retro shit
astral marsh
i keep seeing a lot of words that dont mean much to me
sharp mulch
I hear that they're fashionable
astral marsh
where are the pics
sick burrow
What even is eboy fashion
jovial ember
Arch most of what we said is memeing high fashion brands
astral marsh
nope
jovial ember
I don’t like dickies personally
neat lintel
what is a full dickey?
jovial ember
jovial ember
Tbh
It is but once you have brain worms you’re too far gone
I just don’t like it, it isn’t bad
astral marsh
okay but unironically i legit have like 2 pants that i brought when i moved in
jovial ember
Lmao
astral marsh
and it is gonna get cold fast
narrow rock
why is chmonk the fashion expert
jovial ember
Chmonk is the fashion expert because I am
astral marsh
actual pants recs
astral marsh
that's not a shitpost?
jovial ember
Nope
neat lintel
step 1 go to goodwill
step 2 buy a random pants
astral marsh
why is it called dickie's lmao
astral marsh
limber perch
is Dickies the fashion extension of Dicks?
or are they not related
oh yea their logo is ew
looks like a gas station logo
astral marsh
ok now shirts
jovial ember
Idk i think Arxh will actually look best with edgier stuff rather than the dickie’s like
Normy cozy vibe
astral marsh
i mean im down to experiment lol
jovial ember
But this is also because that’s where I lean fashion-wise so idk
You should get slim-fit black jeans
You haven’t seen a photo of him?
astral marsh
do you want a full body pic
astral marsh
wym
literally a pic where i am in frame
from toes to top of head
as opposed to like all the pics i've ever sent
jovial ember
Bro it sounds like you’re asking if he wants to see your nude body head to toe lol
cold needle
chmonkey moment
jovial ember
Okay but slim if you saw Arch you’d agree that would look good on him
cold needle
who tf wants just a torso pic
narrow rock
chmonkey moment
limber perch
do you want a full body pic
do you want a full body pic 😏
jovial ember
Just post your IG
limber perch
i mean im down to experiment lol
i mean im down to experiment lol
neat lintel
we don't need a nude pic of archsys, it will suffice if he looks up pictures of young naked men, and chooses the one that looks most similar to him in body-type
cold needle
jovial ember
Idk slim maybe I think everyone should be a Hedi boy and that’s just my brain worms
cold needle
why are you all like this
narrow rock
not me
cold needle
ok brofibration is inocente
narrow rock
cold needle
limber perch
i’m just quoting archsys and adding one emoji
jovial ember
It just is talking about Hedi Slimane’s style of clothing
Okay that’s true
That was kinda cringe
narrow rock
narrow rock
yves gluant
jovial ember
-_-
cold needle
jovial ember
What’s that from?
narrow rock
is this a DN joke
jovial ember
narrow rock
cold needle
:bloog:
jovial ember
:bloog:
narrow rock
metal smokes a few packs a day
cold needle
yeah
limber perch
a pack a day keeps the doctor away
jovial ember
Fax
cold needle
no printer!!!!!!
jovial ember
Shut up metal
limber perch
no ink!!!
narrow rock
jovial ember
Don’t you have a being horny to be doing?
jovial ember
You don’t have time to be making dumb jokes
astral marsh
i tucked my shirt in so you can see my body shape if it matters
jovial ember
Literally before he’d send a photo and his hair is like way different and he had glasses on
astral marsh
wym lmao
jovial ember
He literally does
astral marsh
wtf is a rick body
jovial ember
Holy shit
rancid meadow
he literally does lmfao
limber perch
rick from rick and north
rancid meadow
how tall are u arch
jovial ember
You look like Rick Owens himself
rancid meadow
lmao you are more of a chad than rick
astral marsh
what do you mean looks different though
narrow rock
who is rick
astral marsh
i mean you cant really see my face from that distance
jovial ember
This is Rick Owens
rancid meadow
u could literally pull that fit off arch
limber perch
you kind of look like this rick too
jovial ember
Like to really see how Arch looks like Rick you’d need to see a video of Rick like
Being a table
narrow rock
what
rancid meadow
astral marsh
lmao tf is that
limber perch
is he some fashion icon
jovial ember
This is exactly like the pic Arch sent
This is Rick Owens the designer of Rick Owens
It’s a high-fashion brand with a. Cult following
And super distinctive look
narrow rock
looks pretty bad
astral marsh
i see
cold needle
tight white t shirts are the future?
limber perch
very distinctive
rancid meadow
lol cope brofib. u just dont have a rick body (unlike arch)
narrow rock
fAsHiOn
jovial ember
And I have the brain worm
narrow rock
lol cope brofib. u just dont have a rick body (unlike arch)
not his body lol
the clothes
jovial ember
Tbf if you want normal people to like you wearing Rick isn’t the way to go Jesse
Okay Arch idk what to recommend literally every photo of you you look like an entirely different person
Just go buy whatever you think looks cool and just try it out
narrow rock
arch just wear whatever youre wearing in that photo lol
jovial ember
Brofib, no pls no. Don’t make him the guy that wears that everyday
astral marsh
Okay Arch idk what to recommend literally every photo of you you look like an en...
what do you mean lmao
narrow rock
okay get a proper t shirt
astral marsh
is it just the glasses
astral marsh
i dont even wear the glasses anywhere but lectures
jovial ember
You sent a photo in Zoph math a bit ago I think
Where it was like a side profile of your face and you looked entirely different
And then a photo of you like with a tie pops up and you look different
astral marsh
A tie?
jovial ember
Like
astral marsh
Oh that reminds me that if I comb my hair the other way I actually look so different
astral marsh
I see
astral marsh
I mean yeah lol dont i
jovial ember
Brofib you are insane
narrow rock
jovial ember
I think Brofib’s eyes don’t work all he can see is the derived version of everyone
narrow rock
lmao
vast surge
Cosplaying as Riff-Raff from Rocky Horror?
light needle
Time warp
jovial ember
I saw
limber perch
lol the different person thing is starting to manifest
astral marsh
it just gels up by itself
jovial ember
Idk mang, try a collared shirt maybe
You don’t need to tuck it in
Maybe let one end out idk
astral marsh
wym
jovial ember
Like a button down shirt with a collar, but maybe unbutton the top one
With the hair down and if you had glasses it might loook good, it isn’t overly formal because you aren’t like wearing a tie and tucking it in
jovial ember
Plaid button down is weaksauce
You should go for a dressier shirt but dress it down
astral marsh
well, i get all my clothes from my dad and grandma
astral marsh
i see
jovial ember
I just think with the long hair and you being a bit of a nerd (just as a person lol) it can work
Like if you have your hair like in that other photo
I’m with you Slim
neat lintel
I feel like you can wear a white wife beater and just rock the bro look
jovial ember
Archsys suddenly is rich
astral marsh
look im in dms with a rich girl
astral marsh
lmao
cold needle
this is the way
slim meadow
Asking chmonkey for fashion advice kekw
limber perch
dickies was a cool suggestion
jovial ember
That was from Slim tho
slim meadow
Chmonkey just wears all black
slim meadow
Ok you wore all black when we met
limber perch
chmonkey wakes up and choose a single color to wear for the rest of the day
jovial ember
“I have strong reason to believe this is true, I have one example”
limber perch
the day you met him happened to be black
slim meadow
Isn't that how induction works
limber perch
where’s your transition
jovial ember
No induction gives N many examples
cold needle
all horses are brown
jovial ember
True!
cold needle
all chmonkeys wear black.
limber perch
what is a chmonkey
jovial ember
jovial ember
Lmfao
blazing pawn
Chmonkey...
jovial ember
Yeah
blazing pawn
We need to stage an intervention
limber perch
why not this
neat lintel
I wanna give him a high five
bronze pelican
high four
cold needle
true
latent forge
why not this
cursed
analog salmon
wtf is this cursed algebra
okay but these are the most cursed properties I've ever seen
yeah, $gx=gxg^{-1}$ or something like that
fathom swallowBOT
cgodfrey
analog salmon
I still don't like the idea of a self-distributive operator lmao
oh hey that's the next page lol
latent forge
wtf a.a=a
leaden torrent
☸️
stray kite
is complex anal typically a reqd course in UG?
neat lintel
typically
stray kite
it seems to only been an elective here which is why i was wondering
deep mango
It shouldnt be
Replace complex analysis requirements with algebraic topology requirements
Everywhere
neat lintel
I can't tell if you're memeing
toxic schooner
ryc is a known troll
deep mango
im not memeing
slim meadow
r u actually serious
neat lintel
deep mango
People who need to learn complex analysis can learn it
That's really not very many people
A math major should be given at least some introductory understanding of basic algebraic topology constructs
It's more important pedagogically than learning how to do residue calculus
slim meadow
I don't get this argument
People who need to learn algebraic topology can also learn it
Maybe I'm biased but I feel like a lot more fields of math and people use complex analysis than algebraic topology
I don't really see what basic algebraic topology constructs are important pedalogically
deep mango
Where else are you showing undergrads deep connections between seemingly disparate fields of math (and also the idea of homotopy, which is extremely important)
I mean like
If you already require a point set topology course
First priority is to throw out the garbage and replace it with basic alg top ideas at the end
But berkeley for example has no topology requirement at all
But everyone needs to take complex analysis
I'm in analysis, and even we barely use complex analysis. Grad intro complex analysis classes are usually just the undergrad class plus extra stuff at the end, etc.
The only people who I can see really benefitting from this are number theory people, and MAYBE a bit in alg geo?
All that complex analysis can be required in first year of grad school
velvet dagger
I think complex analysis is pretty widespread. Like it's not a subject such that if you don't know it you're missing tools for your research, but I feel it's kind of a subject where... let's say you do PDE, morally you probably should have a broad basis in analysis. Missing complex analysis is a hole. Same for number theory, some people can definitely dodge it, but should you?
Now to be fair
I don't think complex analysis classes as taught focus on the right stuff
Tons of residue and contour integral computations are a bit dumb
deep mango
Meanwhile, the languages of homology and homotopy are literally everywhere in math (including in a ton of analysis) and imo anyone who aims to work in pure math should at least see how they work at an introductory level, because they're informative ideas whether or not they directly show up
deep mango
Tons of residue and contour integral computations are a bit dumb
People always say this but what else is there?
Teaching people about special functions and elliptic integrals?
velvet dagger
Honestly I think a lot of the complex that everyone should know can probably be lumped into a standard multivariable analysis class. Or maybe combined somewhat with Fourier analysis?
deep mango
In PDEs you learn about harmonic functions and they have all the same useful informative properties that a PDE person would care for...
deep mango
Honestly I think a lot of the complex that everyone should know can probably be ...
Sure, that's fine. I've seen a tiny bit of this contour integration stuff coming up in fourier analysis / harmonic analysis but it's always so surface level
velvet dagger
I mean also e.g. Paley-Wiener
slim meadow
I feel like we just disagree on which subject shows up or motivates more things in math
deep mango
I really don't think any of this warrants a full course in complex analysis before it becomes necessary for someone's line of research
Like paley wiener is only useful or interesting to a subset of a subset of analysts
velvet dagger
So, my impression of the graph here is
deep mango
So sure, good to learn about the techniques, but maybe like... as an elective, or in grad school
If we're making this argument, require fourier analysis instead of complex 
velvet dagger
Complex analysis is prob least important in real analysis
I actually do think Fourier is a better requirement
But yeah complex analysis is good for itself, algebraic/complex geometry, number theory, and is probably a very nice starting ground for a lot of ideas in topology
neat lintel
ryc is a known troll
if i should understand "known troll" as "based memer", then this is trivially inconsistent. ryc is honorable, and based memers cannot become honorable
velvet dagger
Also it's good in combinatorics
But in real analysis and differential geometry it's much less important
neat lintel
despite, ryc could still have been memeing in that instance, just simply that it was not a based memery
velvet dagger
You have to know something no matter what but what you have to know is more limited
deep mango
I'm not saying complex analysis is not important for some people, but I do think it's a crime to not require a proper topology course, a proper topology course shouldnt waste tons of time on countability axioms or other stupid properties, and as long as we're getting rid of a course requirement to make room for topology the obvious throwaway is complex analysis.
velvet dagger
I also separately think the real meat of complex analysis classes can often by done in 4 weeks or less
Problem is they go sloooooooow and review too much real analysis and spend forever on dumb computations
Oh this is what it means for a sequence of complex numbers to converge! Like okay no shit sherlock
toxic schooner
if i should understand "known troll" as "based memer", then this is trivially in...
i dont think u should understand it like that
deep mango
You need to smush it together with something else
deep mango
velvet dagger
I could see it? Honestly I think there's a fair bit of redundancy in early analysis
deep mango
Or multivariable real analysis
velvet dagger
And it could be cleaned up a fair bit
deep mango
Complex analysis quals are also a meme
velvet dagger
Oh yeah lol
deep mango
Not a single problem on these quals is remotely relevant to my life
Meanwhile the real analysis and linear algebra prelims are actually extremely relevant
velvet dagger
I think for math majors the correct way to do things is, first year you do a class that's hybrid Spivak/Rudin. Mostly by this I mean Rudin but you teach topology just on R, and maybe have things be more sequence heavy
deep mango
I mean if you've taken calculus in HS just take linear algebra and proper analysis
Like
Why waste time avoiding metric spaces
deep mango
I guess so
velvet dagger
Honestly I could see Rudin 1-8 over a full year serving as an intro to both proofs and calculus if you have a light hand
But in case that's a bit much it can be toned down slightly
neat lintel
i agree, except by rudin 1-8 i interpret this as the subjects in rudin 1-8, not a course taught out of rudin
or, really 1-11
all the chapters
neat lintel
a first course in analysis is like 1-7 of rudin
velvet dagger
Students who don't know what a limit is or what a proof is
I feel it can maybe be done right, with difficulty
neat lintel
i guess so, but then this sounds like calculus, then rudin 1-8
velvet dagger
Or at least tone it down slightly and focus on topology of R, focusing on sequences in fact
One of the two is your first year math major class
Then you jump to multivariable stuff. Linear algebra (with an eye toward what you need in analysis), normed spaces, differentiation and integration
Last few weeks you do some basic complex
Algebra probably de-emphasize finite group theory and Galois, more rep theory. Have everyone do some Fourier and alg top
stray kite
is there really much of a point in taking notes yourself if your prof gives you their lecture notes
bronze pelican
Algebra probably de-emphasize finite group theory and Galois, more rep theory. H...
Galois theory is good
bronze pelican
is there really much of a point in taking notes yourself if your prof gives you ...
Yes
neat lintel
Yes
Actually, the answer is "no"
Also, why is everyone "wew something tbh" these days?
the president announced if you are cringelord you ahve to have this name
Ah, I instinctively thought this trend is no good, you confirmed my gut
stray kite
now which answer should i follow
vast surge
Also, why is everyone "wew something tbh" these days?
Becaus of wew lads tbh
sick burrow
Wait Dami were you actually trying to argue in favor of Rudin for first year math majors?
velvet dagger
I mean maybe tone it down slightly but
Honestly? Could be done
I had IB Math in high school which wasn't the best
velvet dagger
Also I had to miss a week of class when we covered a bunch of important topics
So my calculus was quite bad going in
First year I had a Spivak class. One quarter in I got bored and sat in on a Rudin class
Honestly? It was quite smooth
odd yew
eh poor most math major books ... ? sigh
vivid halo
have you worked through Rudin before?
odd yew
actually no, but I hear things.
vivid halo
interesting
odd yew
I think we used Royden.
vivid halo
oh Royden is a lot better
odd yew
Yeah. I've inferred that from long talks with Rudin folks.
vast surge
I don't know how to ride a bike with training wheels
But yeah Rudin's a pretty good book.
odd yew
Hehe. The only ambitious math I am even remotely thinking about is understanding the proof to FLT, but I hear that's like years of study.
vast surge
You'd be surprised. I tend to fall off when I try to ride bikes.
odd yew
Just never use training wheels. Ride a tricycle.
vast surge
Yeah I generally fall off only after crashing into things
velvet dagger
So my take on Rudin is
For a class it's perfect
For self study it's tough
But it's not like gym types will deny that weight lifting is tough either
There's merit in being forced to think hard
deep mango
Slim would like Rudin. It's like avant garde music, bad on purpose.
Because bad things really make you think
vivid halo
the music understanders have logged on
velvet dagger
^
vivid halo
RUINED
velvet dagger
A lot of that weird unpleasant nonsense in music is just a massive load of cope
Like idk the noise shit
vivid halo
velvet dagger
And ryc's idea of music that's bad on purpose
vivid halo
I mean it's fine if you just don't understand it as a genre and what it's trying to accomplish
velvet dagger
Seems like Stockholm syndrome to me somehow
vivid halo
nah lol
vivid halo
lofi can be good
admittedly it's a genre that can be done very poorly
but lofi can be used pretty effectively
crystal stone
RIP Nujabes
neat lintel
I'm was thinking about mount eerie/the microphones
Lot of noise in his music but it's utilized really well
Very powerful stuff
vivid halo
yea so there's a big difference between using ideas from (harsh) noise as a textural element
versus harsh noise
harsh noise can also be very good
it's sad that not enough people give it a chance or even try to understand it
NoOooO music needs to sound good according to my narrow musical aesthetic tastes 
analog pedals plugged into contact mic go BRRRRRRR 
neat lintel
Chad af
chilly smelt
Do you feel the same with mathematical aesthetics
fringe needle
versus **harsh noise**
Can stimulate certain emotions that other sounds can’t
deep mango
like this
In my music history class we read an article about musical topos and it was totally unrelated to math, this seems related though lmao
The big joke was "musical topoi" between me and the other math major in that class
Yeah
crystal stone
So for my job interview at UT Austin, the lady accidentally sent me the information on another candidate
I got her name, looked her up
Found her entire resume, since she's a public employee
I also saw her salary
I'm like jesus H christ
cold needle
H
deep mango
H
crystal stone
That's the importantpart y'know
deep mango
Sherbert.
deep mango
Shoeville.
crystal stone
Satan Nicholas the third
deep mango
Hingle bells
crystal stone
Batman's dells
Anyway, the person I'm up against for the job
She has a PhD in Art History, and doesn't have any professional experience in academic support
Other than being a grad TA
If I lose this opportunity to her, I think I'm gonna go commit crossword puzzle
latent forge
Hopefully the better character wins
crystal stone
Hopefully the better character wins
What does that even mean
The job has a list of duties, and experiences you're supposed to have
modest rune
He is hoping that bad rolls don't cause the better (dnd) character to lose
crystal stone
It should go to the most qualified candidate
neat lintel
Yea but what if she is the protagonist
modest rune
The protagonist is not always the best character
latent forge
It should go to the most qualified candidate
Hopefully you have the better character
crystal stone
Oh I see
I was thinking of character as in
"Builds character"
"They have great character"
crystal stone
I don't think for this position it's meaningless since it's geared towards academic support
Which you have to have a certain personality to do
Well, at least to do it well
latent forge
If you dont get job it no biggie though. It just isnt you arc
crystal stone
Yeah, no I'm chillin'. I already have the same job at a different university
latent forge
😎
crystal stone
And I've been working in academic support for about 6 or 7 years in various roles, not really that much as a lecturer/teacher
latent forge
that is very impressive
crystal stone
So when I see this person's resume and I see they don't have that much support experience
And the support experience they do have is in doing a PhD in Art History
Which entailed TA-ing
crystal stone
I think my qualifications outweigh hers by a longshot, even though she has one degree on me
Also, subject matter expertise is important. I won't claim to be an art history expert
latent forge
what if her phd is in musical topos
crystal stone
But I have a feeling I can help students pass an art history class w/ general study skills
I don't think she can help a student pass calc 2
At my current place, the person directing the writing academic support just left
So I get to provide writing support. I wasn't nearly as qualified as her, she has a PhD in English and wants to be a writer
But y'know what
My strategies work lol
latent forge
Hopefully there is more demand for math help
latent forge
Where did you find this out?
I had no clue thats true
Before I just assumed it was some coding class or every class fails at same rate for first years
vivid halo
calc 1 and calc 2 are very commonly failed
latent forge
Do yall know why? Is it a student or curriculum problem?
crystal stone
azure kettle
yes, community colleges should abolish algebra
latent forge
thise arent real articles though right?
azure kettle
like just from existence
crystal stone
I mean, this is where they make the argument that algebra is one of the most failed courses
vivid halo
these are very real yes
latent forge
its all conjectured
vivid halo
I mean, this is where they make the argument that algebra is one of the most fai...
lol wonder why
crystal stone
Because ||Journos can't do math||
vivid halo
yea pretty much
I do think the existence of remedial courses is preferable to just telling undergrads that if they aren't coming in with knowledge of algebra they should just consider another major lol
but I do feel like this is sometimes preferable
a lot of people just do not have what it takes
crystal stone
Do yall know why? Is it a student or curriculum problem?
It's a mix. Sometimes the fault lies with the student, sometimes its the teacher, sometimes its the institution
crystal stone
This debate has been going on for 10+ years now
Probably much longer
But Oregon has abolished math requirements to graduate HS
neat lintel
“Abstract algebra”
That threw me for a loop for a second
crystal stone
In California, new proposals are uniformizing math education at the pre-high school level
That is there's no advanced or honors track
neat lintel
...
crystal stone
Everyone is in a one size fits all math course
latent forge
i can argue not needing geometry
neat lintel
do we want doctors and engineers or not
latent forge
but like really no algebra?
neat lintel
i can argue not needing geometry
that’s the only actual math course taken
sleek wing
American education 
crystal stone
Does anyone know the source of this?
It's funding.
Schools are funded based on graduation rates
crystal stone
So if they lower the bar to graduate, then they get more funding
neat lintel
I’m in a red state, and my old high school is now getting rid of failing
Well if kids are dropping out because of math that might be an issue
latent forge
moonbears do you know if this issue is becoming pervasive?
crystal stone
Uh yes
latent forge
or is it just a select few places
crystal stone
Look at AB 705 in California
neat lintel
Well if kids are dropping out because of math that might be an issue
The bigger issue is just pushing kids through who don’t understand the concepts so that the school looks better, which is absolutely what the trend is turning towards
crystal stone
Texas State Initiative is also lowering standards
Oregon got rid of them altogether for HS
Seattle has math on its way out the door in the high school system as well
vivid halo
yea it's moronic
azure kettle
dont think any of those people were doing abstract algebra in the first place
crystal stone
It started happening at first in colleges w/ laxing pre-reqs
Then they just axe them altogether
neat lintel
The bigger issue is just pushing kids through who don’t understand the concepts ...
This actually happened to my little sibling, so it’s a rather large personal concern for me
crystal stone
Then they say they don't need it for college
Then that trickles down into the HS, MS, and elementary school
vivid halo
there has been a push in very liberal states to do away with AP courses completely because "they are a source of academic inequality"
crystal stone
If you don't require Elementary school teachers to know math, how are they going to teach it?
crystal stone
They just made the CSET for teachers in California easier to pass
By not requiring you to pass
latent forge
If you don't require Elementary school teachers to know math, how are they going...
yea this is worrying for future generations
neat lintel
They should do it like my father’s home country
You go to college free, but only if you get in, and you get in if you earn it
light needle
I think there’s v@lid reasons to dislike ap, bc if toxic college culture and such. But academic ineq isn’t one of em imo
neat lintel
Croatia
crystal stone
And it undermines real efforts to change Math Education in the US that don't amount to "Hey poor kids are too stupid to learn math, so we'll get rid of it"
light needle
You get rid of these from school and the poor ppl will be@fucked while the rich just enjoy,their private schools
crystal stone
Because I don't think poor kids benefit from this
neat lintel
I respectfully disagree, college should be for learning not a proof of willpower
azure kettle
one big reason to hate AP is the existence of college board
latent forge
I think there’s v@lid reasons to dislike ap, bc if toxic college culture and suc...
there is academic ineq but removing aps just makes it worse
azure kettle
which is very cringe
vivid halo
yea that's the ironic thing too, it's IMMENSELY RACIST to propose that e.g. black students are incapable of conforming to mathematics standards so they should be lowered
light needle
Right lmao
crystal stone
Tell that to Seattle, most of oregon, and all of California
neat lintel
It’s kinda like how UCalifornia killed test requirements....
which made it so low income students and out-of-state folks had a much harder time getting in
vivid halo
I know, I fucking hate my home state
latent forge
this is depressing
crystal stone
The UC system is opting out of the ACT/SAT now
light needle
This will literally make academic inequality even more
vivid halo
much of Oregon is a fucking shithole due to liberal policies
latent forge
yes sadly
light needle
Liberals when they try to be woke without understanding underlying issues
crystal stone
I mean opting out of ACT/SAT is based
by opting out I mean they are going to create their own UC test for california students
crystal stone
But if you look at the trend
azure kettle
I thought you meant like they're just doing away with that shit
crystal stone
Where is that going to go?
Sure, the SAT has a lot of problems, ACT is a lot better
neat lintel
I mean opting out of ACT/SAT is based
See what I wrote above. UCalifornia requires students to have a certain set of classes, which aren’t all offered to out-of-state/low income classes. However, if you scored high enough on the SAT/ACT, you could be exempted. This is now no longer possible.
crystal stone
but if you don't develop employable skills for students how are you helping them?
azure kettle
I see
velvet dagger
Honestly society should just pay me a lot of money to think about pedagogy and just implement what I say
latent forge
Im so confused is there lobbying to remove math or is there none and school systems want to make more money?
crystal stone
I think I should be in charge of the nations math education cuz clearly if I dictate what teachers do in their classroom from thousands of miles away
I'll make better decisions
vivid halo
there is lobbying for this yes, because of ridiculous liberal ideology mostly around the idea that certain groups of people are harmed by high standards so the solution is to lower standards rather than to push people harder
neat lintel
This seems to partially stem from a desire for complete equality of outcome (a silly concept) and partially for funding reasons
vivid halo
they want equality of outcome, it's awful
latent forge
there is lobbying for this yes, because of ridiculous liberal ideology mostly ar...
this happens often with other issues too
sick burrow
Wait what's happening now
azure kettle
Im so confused is there lobbying to remove math or is there none and school syst...
I think there's also an element of "school education looks bad because math scores are low -> remove math so education looks better" when the solution should be to improve math education to less privileged students
sick burrow
I just got here
crystal stone
The best part about all this is if you ask them about separating athletes by talent, they suddenly get into "Well the best get better by competing with the best" but if you try to apply this to math or english
latent forge
where liberals believe lower class is incapable
crystal stone
Suddenly it becomes "Oh well the best will help the slower kids"
light needle
Cooking the numbers
crystal stone
Ok, so if the best students are constantly helping the slower kids
What do they learn
velvet dagger
They're getting hurt yeah
crystal stone
How are they challenged
vivid halo
there was a huge push to abolish the gifted program I went to for elementary and middle school precisely for this reason, that it caters towards the best students and the best students need to be taken down a peg because having high outcomes is bad
velvet dagger
Funny thing is
vivid halo
that city can burn for all I care
latent forge
there was a huge push to abolish the gifted program I went to for elementary and...
i agree with it somewhat