graduate-applications

[swift palm]

Bergelson's students'/friends' students apply there so makes sense. I am not sure about its reputation/strength of candidates in the US though (since I am only tangentially in Bergelson's area I am not applying there)

assuming osu is ohio state not oklahoma or whatever

[smoky jetty]

I'm at OSU so can you elaborate lol

[mossy niche]

I heard somewhere that 10 years ago OSU had domestic mgre median of 67 percent vs international 95. could totally be making this up

[cosmic magnet]

Dang, I need to catch up to the international students

[cosmic magnet]

Doesn't it help a fair amount though?

[mossy niche]

you cant guarantee admission tho

[cosmic magnet]

Since the advisor could let the grad committee know in advance that they're interested in said student

[cosmic magnet]

Yeah true, but it can help by a strong degree presumably?

[mossy niche]

the aforementioned "spoken pact" would never happen unless the professor happened to have insane power

that being said my advisor did say that in case i didnt get into my safety, he had the ability to make some phone calls...

maybe it does happen lol

[shy thunder]

Great school. Grad students there can also take grad classes at Rutgers and do research at both universities. Good choice

[knotty marsh]

Are 6 schools too little for PhD apps for an international applicant... I couldn't find a lot of ppl doing the specific thing I want to do. The schools are Northwestern, UIC, Madison-Wisc, Uni of Chicago, UT Austin, U Toronto...
Ig ppl can't say much without knowing my personal background but ig I wanna ask if these schools are super competitive enough that I should definitely apply to more

I'm interested in measured group theory if anybody has suggestions...

[spring portal]

6 probably is less imo, PhD apps are quite competitive so I would recommend to add couple more atleast to be on the safer side especially as an international.

[knotty marsh]

What sounds like a good number... 10.. or is it more like 15

[spring portal]

I am applying to 10 as an international too.

8-12 should be ok if you got above average profile

Main thing is your research experience and sop, make sure to write a stellar sop, linking your past experiences to future of what you want to do.

[knotty marsh]

Ah I see, thanks

[tacit lark]

This is about your school selection and profile strength. I think you need to be a bit more than above average to feel safe applying to the 6 schools @knotty marsh mentioned.

[knotty marsh]

What in your opinion, would qualify as bit more than above average btw

[tacit lark]

there is no way to actually say this. The point is these are all top 20 schools except for UIC. They are very competitive programs.

[knotty marsh]

I see

Application season sucks, it literally sucks the life out of you

[smoky jetty]

OSU doesn't even accept the GRE or MGRE for math anymore

[mossy niche]

progress is made

[cosmic magnet]

Hoping that my GRE waiver gets accepted so that I can give the MGRE with a day's worth of prep

[main marlin]

you have to be cracked just so you get the opportunity to pay a uni 200k 😭

[pearl isle]

are international students paying for PhDs in the US?

I was under the impression they're still being paid

[main marlin]

o I thought it was referring to Masters

[pearl isle]

oh well 90% of US masters programs are scams

you should not pay for a masters in the US

in the UK or other countries where it's not ridiculously expensive then yes go for it

this is also why if you're a us student looking for a masters go somewhere where the unis are not for profit moneymaking scams (IE, another country)

[main marlin]

yeah if it's worth anything, if i do masters at my current uni (EU), i can do my final year at a us college for free lol seems better than paying 200k, though i presume just being an intl student doesn't make it worth much

[pearl isle]

definitely better than paying 200k. Expensive US masters programs are often not that prestigious anyway despite their cost

the most prestigious math unis in the US have all closed their masters programs to outside applicants with the exception of allowing PhD students to get masters along the way

[main marlin]

outside like out of the uni.. or the country

[pearl isle]

the uni

outside of the uni

most of the places in the US that still have masters open to other students are just running expensive programs to fund their phd programs. Which means 1] they dont really care about their students getting the best education 2] they just aren't really very much more prestigious than a bachelors from a good uni anyway (at least for the purpose of PhD apps)

[main marlin]

If I do a year abroad, hopefully i get nominated, my uni has a very strong program with UCs, so I'd aim for UCLA/UC Berkely I wonder what their math reputation is

[pearl isle]

Berkeley doesn't have an external math masters

I dont think UCLA does either

[main marlin]

Hmm but would they not allow an exchange student

[pearl isle]

they take exchange students for undergrad

[main marlin]

ah I see

[pearl isle]

there is basically no masters program at berkeley

(source: am a student here)

[main marlin]

o nice

how do us math students do a phd after 4 year bachelor with gen eds, and on avg starting courses later than european students, are we europeans just dumb

[tacit lark]

Plenty of students take 5 years

[main marlin]

I see

that's basically a european bsc + msc

[tacit lark]

I mean 5 years for phd

[main marlin]

ah

and they do that thingy where they take courses during their first 2 years of their phd

and that's supposedly their "masters"

[pearl isle]

Yes exactly - actually both things are true

plenty of bachelors take 5 years

and plenty of phds take 5 years

[tacit lark]

Also its not the case that everything you learned in your bs+ms is necessary for doing a good phd.

[main marlin]

do they get paid while taking those courses as a phd student ?

[tacit lark]

So people with less preparation are able to catch up and do a food phd

[pearl isle]

Also, one type of "MS" that is increasingly common + less of a scam is undergrads who get to take a 5th year at their undergrad uni to do an internal masters program marketed as an extra year for undergrads

[tacit lark]

Yes but you typically have some amount of teaching youre required to do to earn your funding.

[pearl isle]

and this is basically just "take more grad classes and write a thesis"

but usually it doesn't cost extra beyond the cost of an extra year of undergrad tuition

I'm applying to some masters programs but only ones in Europe because those are legit (cambridge part 3, eth zurich, maybe ill apply to some others)

in the US I'm just applying to PhDs

[main marlin]

from what I’ve seen, many American math students don’t take analysis until their third year. Then, going straight into a PhD after only a bachelor’s degree seems intense, when you consider that European students typically cover analysis in their first year and complete a full five-year program—both a bachelor’s and a master’s—before pursuing a PhD

[main marlin]

good luck, i'm also aiming for eth zurich

though not in a while

[pearl isle]

thanks

[pearl isle]

there's a really wide variety in the us

[tacit lark]

It works out just fine for many people

[pearl isle]

here at berkeley it is relatively common for people to take algebra + analysis first or second year

I think it's common at most of the top math ug programs

[tacit lark]

Also most students at top phd programs took analysis and other foundational courses earlier

[pearl isle]

I took algebra + analysis sophomore year and I was quite delayed bc of some external factors

there are many students who take exclusively grad classes starting sophomore year

[main marlin]

wow

[pearl isle]

but it really depends where you go for undergrad

[main marlin]

yeah americans are crazy, some take analysis in their third year, others do multi variable, linear algebra all that in hs as dual enrollment

[pearl isle]

There is a freshman I'm friends with who is carrying me in 3 of the grad classes that I'm in and is in a 4th grad class I'm not in

first semester freshman

so like

[main marlin]

wow

[pearl isle]

you get a very large variety of different students

[tacit lark]

Is it surprising that some people have very different background, interests and ability?

[main marlin]

For sure

Here in europe

it's very rare even at a top uni

for students to have done mvc linear algebra in hs

[pearl isle]

I would say that the american system is on average slower but the peaks and prodigies are also very accelerated

it's a very fend for yourself system

and so the people who are already really smart can be like years and years ahead of average students

[tacit lark]

In what sense

[main marlin]

Yeah I would've liked a dual enrollment equivalent here in Europe when i was in HS but definitely don't want US higher ed lol

[pearl isle]

in the sense that most high schools only offer like calc 1 at the most, and it's the people who's parents are putting them in russian school of math since grade 3 who are going to be ahead

in the sense that public math education is terrible but for people who know where to look there are many good expensive private resources

in the sense that every aspect of american society is like extremely advantageous to those with the money/time/effort to get their kids ahead and extremely disadvantageous to those relying on our shitty defunded public school systems

and ofc im not claiming that the prodigies aren't already super smart. But even they would probably agree most of the school resources alone are not enough to challenge them for math and they have to look externally for other challenges

so the people who are willing/able to do that get a lot ahead and others dont

I guess I can't fairly say that europe/other countries are any better since I've never lived there

[main marlin]

Europe differs quite a bit from country to country but from what i've seen, in HS prodigies aren't given that much opportunity compared to many in the US to further pursue their ambitions, but there is a greater effort to bring up the "average"

[pearl isle]

yeah that's kinda what I thought

[main marlin]

but one important thing to mention is that at least for a lot of european countries, it's disingenous to compare Highschool abilities (to US) because of different systems, in the sense that for example in my country, those who were significantly lacking in academics typically went another route than highschool after middle school, bringing up the average "high school" ability significantly since the sample is filtered

[pearl isle]

oh that's interesting

[main marlin]

There is a full government system to offer students an alternative to high school after middle school which from what i've noticed isn't as prevalent in US

[pearl isle]

Yeah definitely not

most people either go to high school or just drop out

[main marlin]

so the end result is the average "high schooler" is really smart compared to americans but that's because they've been filtered

[pearl isle]

yeah interesting

where do people go other than high school?

I remember in my intro german language class I heard abt smt similar in germany (where there are like 3 "types" of high schools based on proficiency and more focused towards what ppl do with their lives)

[main marlin]

my friend for instance is doing a mechanic apprenticeship instead of HS

[pearl isle]

but I don't remember the details

[main marlin]

Vocational training generally

[pearl isle]

that's interesting

my only thought is that like specializing in something like that without doing high school so early seems like it closes a lot of doors for people before they're really mature enough to know what they want to do with their lives

[main marlin]

There's also different types of universities, there is university of applied sciences, and normal universities, it's not really comparable to community college vs public college, it's more so a more practical/hands on approach vs more theoretical/research oriented

[main marlin]

there is some opportunity to change your mind, for instance in switzerland if you go to a university of applied sciences and get say a 5.0/6 GPA, then you can apply for masters at a normal uni, ethz etc.

So you go back into the more academic path, and the university will usually have you take a few extra courses to catch up

[pearl isle]

ah that's cool

[mossy niche]

I have to take 2 more general Eds to graduate and not be PhD rescinded

[main marlin]

i don't know if it's the same in US but i'm going to do what i call the "foreign lang" trick

to get by my non math mandatory classes

[mossy niche]

what is the foreign language truck

[main marlin]

Basically taking intro classes in foreign languages that i already know

so I just don't ever work or show up for the class

and then just show up for the exam and get the credit + perfect grade

[mossy niche]

we have a separate language requirement that you can test out of

doesnt count towards gen eds

[main marlin]

i see

well thank god i live in 🇪🇺

[mossy niche]

i still havent taken a science class

[limpid zealot]

I had no clue the mGRE asked about artinian rings

in case anyone compiles resources for this stuff, maybe add an aside on determining when a quotient of a polynomial ring is artinian by inspection

[pearl isle]

Lmfao that’s insanely cursed

[mossy niche]

we never learned what an artinian ring was

it was in the textbook somewhere

[spring portal]

Wtf

Please contribute to the cause of abolishing gre by not taking it 😭

[mossy niche]

the gre is an equalizer for a lot of people from schools without strong math background

thats about the only thing its good for

[cosmic magnet]

The GRE admins are also insanely slow in processing fee waivers

I need this by next Wednesday☠️

[pearl isle]

Call me crazy but I think this is intentional

They’re trying hard to fuck over low income students so they just give in and buy it

Fundamentally evil company

[mossy niche]

obligatory "i dislike minnesota" because they wont give me a fee waiver for being poor

dislike meaning i just wont apply 😞

[cosmic magnet]

They don't give application waivers??

[mossy niche]

only if youre part of one of those programs

[cosmic magnet]

UC Davis application fee is 135 bucks☠️

[mossy niche]

none of which i knew existed until this month

hell i didnt even know the goldwater scholarship existed apparently thats a big one. didnt know i shouldve looked out for this

[tacit lark]

Typical UC application fee

[cosmic magnet]

I should luckily qualify for a waiver

[limpid zealot]

Wish I could, but the advice I've received on good authority is that it can matter when applying as an international

[limpid zealot]

it's not on most mGRE resources (e.g. Princeton Review, Coley's notes, MathSub's topic list)
although the mGRE does ask about ideals, getting into ascending and descending chain conditions seems more like commutative algebra, which I do not think is taught at the undergraduate usually

[knotty marsh]

Some schools ask you not to send it, not required for most anyways... I don't think grad committees get any valuable information (on how likely you are to succeed at their program) from mGRE tho, I think most mathematicians realise that...

[limpid zealot]

does that hold for international applicants as well?

I've heard from some that have and still do serve on admissions committees that in that case they do look at it if possible, and use it as a factor in the decision process

I am aware some schools outright don't ask for them, but it's hard to buy that where it's optional they don't bother much with it

[knotty marsh]

Ig they do... but the time you put in to get a 90 percentile could be better used to do some good math

Offset the cost

[limpid zealot]

makes sense

[mossy niche]

maybe noetherian rings is on the list? idk I only studied calculus

[limpid zealot]

I haven't seen the chain condition anywhere, and in general the discussion of ideals in most materials related to the mGRE seems limited to the definition and basic consequences

[mossy niche]

i think it's safe to say that no material knows exactly what is on the exam, since they make it harder every year

[limpid zealot]

indeed

the PR book doesn't discuss fluxes, for instance, but flux questions pop up often

[dense ocean]

What are some good PhD programs that offer Applied Math or CS+Math? I'm aware UChicago recently has made a CS+Math grad program

[tacit lark]

from what ik cornell, mit, harvard, princeton offer applied math programs where you can work with people in cs. Also, CMU and GaTech ACO program.

[smoky jetty]

It may help if you can be more specific by what you mean by "CS +Math"

Like algorithms and complexity?

Optimization in the vein of analysis and pdes / odes?

Combinatorial optimization?

Programming languages / compilers?

[spring portal]

I agree with symmetry enjoyer. mGRE is just a standardized test for undegraduate math curriculum which would be given a small weightage, if any. I think its more important to have research experience.

[spring portal]

for swiss mainly grades

💀

Is it a well known university?

Ah ok

Its well known

I thought lund gave grades, one of my friend also studies math there

Idk for sure, will ask him

[limpid zealot]

I do agree with you two in that research exp. should matter more - I took it primarily at the suggestion of my research supervisor

it boils down to how selective the system gets for international applicants, I guess

[pearl isle]

In this case mgre is pretty important for you

This is exactly the type of thing mgre is supposed to be about - telling apart ppl from unis with weird grading schemes or less reputable coursework

So it’s pretty important for u to get a decent one

Oh

Mb

Ignore

I mixed up the comments

I remember an earlier conversation was someone asking how important mgre is

And I thought it was you

[toxic abyss]

For ETH at least, not only the grades and thesis topic are important, but LoRs are great boosts to your application as well. A strong LoR from an experienced prof or someone who collaborated with ETH profs is better for your application. They are very interested in whether your interests overlap with any specific research groups at ETH

gre is optional for ethz. you might wanna attempt it if you want to apply to other places that need it, but its fine if theres no gre score attached to the application

[worldly herald]

should i have as wide a variety of undergrad classes as possible or be somewhat specialized

like im not gonna end up taking any advanced odes/pdes at all with my current plan, or an advanced linear algebra course (although the upper level abstract algebra one just covers a lot of that in the end of the year im pretty sure)

i have an intro linear algebra and intro odes course but its like the ones most stem majors would take

[pearl isle]

Skipping ODEs/PDEs is pretty common but skipping advanced linear algebra is questionable

It’s extremely important for almost every field of math

[worldly herald]

yeah that was my worry, but the grad level algebra class said you can take 443 (the end of the advanced undergrad/early grad algebra sequence) or advanced linear algebra as a prereq, so i thought there might be some overlap

[pearl isle]

Although, if your abstract class is advanced enough you may do enough module theory to generalize the non calculation based part

[worldly herald]

yeah we're doing stuff with modules next term

[pearl isle]

But that module theory is gonna be a lot harder if you’ve never seen much proof based linear algebra

And if you don’t do that much of it

Then you prob are still missing stuff

[worldly herald]

ive done proof based linear algebra it was just on the intro topics though

wasnt much computational in the class

[pearl isle]

You may be fine then

[worldly herald]

it was a 1 quarter long thing not semester

my other intro algebra class did some stuff with vector spaces when we learned about field extensions as well but im not sure if thats super relevant

in this book https://math.umd.edu/~jcohen/402/Pinter Algebra.pdf

[pearl isle]

Some common and important things to remember are like vector spaces (things like rank nullity, proofs using dimension counting, change of basis, the isomorphism of any FDVS with R^n, other random stuff), dual spaces (dual basis, the canonical isomorphism of V with its double dual, duality proofs), inner product spaces (abstract inner products, angles in abstract vector spaces, the groups of orthogonal/unitary matrices)

Eventually knowing stuff about tensors is important too but that will prob be in the abstract algebra class rather than the linear class

[worldly herald]

this is the stuff we did, we didnt do every single exercise but these topics

in the algebra class

my intro linalg wasnt all of this, it was a bit of computational at the start for 3-4 weeks (for row reduction stuff) then mostly proofs

was probably like, A,B,C,D,E

just not with these examples

we didnt do like isomorphisms and stuff in the intro linalg

[pearl isle]

This is missing some stuff I would say is reasonably important

Like dual spaces, inner product spaces

Other than that it’s prob ok

[worldly herald]

ok, that sounds good

i think ill be able to prepare enough learning those during winter break before we do stuff with modules

and skipping odes should be fine?

the intro diffeq class im doing feels like it's doing stuff with linear algebra and hiding it idk why

like my professor doesnt want to use the word vector or something

are there any big topics i should make sure not to miss? i dont think im going to really be doing any probability/stats or optimization

im worried not taking stats would be bad

i didnt take it in high school so i just dont really have any experience at all with it, not even an intro class

[tacit lark]

I dont think it will matter for grad school admissions if you're not doing anything applied or related to probability/optimization. But, I think its a good idea to take probability.

[pearl isle]

Yeah easily

[pearl isle]

Yeah it definitely is lol

Probably your prof doesn’t want to scare the engineering majors

[cosmic magnet]

How bad is the MGRE with zero practice?

Just got the fee waiver approved and I'm essentially going to run to the testing center right after a midterm if I do register

[tacit lark]

depends on how well you know the material...

ik some people that did well without studying. some people that didnt with plenty of studying. it depends on you.

[pearl isle]

For me personally pretty rough

But just take it do as well as you can

No use stressing now

[cosmic magnet]

I wasn't planning on giving it anyway given my lack of prep. My rationale being that if I do well then it helps me other I'm not going to send the score out

It sucks that they onlt offer exams for six weeks in total every year

[pearl isle]

Yeah

But overall just do your best

Most important thing is to be relaxed going into it

[cosmic magnet]

Turns out I can't even register so I guess I'm not going to take it

[mossy niche]

yeah you need to register like 3 weeks in advance minimum

[cosmic magnet]

Ah, onwards it is

[swift palm]

Gatech international applicant. Do I need to do the credential evaluation thing?

To accelerate this required part of our process, we highly recommend that you order a credential evaluation from one of our service partners prior to submitting your application. Our partnership with these services offers our applicants a reduced price for an evaluation.
If you decide to submit your application without a credential evaluation, you may be selected to have your credentials evaluated by one of our service partners at a later time.

[knotty marsh]

Jeez

The US system is the worst

[mossy niche]

anyone here applying for ndseg

[soft narwhal]

are you planning on doing omscs

[swift palm]

What is a omscs

I checked, and no.

regular phd in math

[steep belfry]

I got a letter today "certificate of admission" how early do ppl get this? Is this something non official? I applied for spring 2025 ms program. Lastly, can't believe this yet, is this really saying that I'm accepted into the program?

[mossy niche]

well if it's for spring presumably you'd be expecting it around now I suppose

[tacit lark]

Read the letter and see if it means you’re accepted into the program

[cosmic magnet]

Congrats!

[hot wadi]

congrats king

[worldly herald]

is a W in a non-math class going to hurt graduate applications too much? or not really at all if i do well in all my math classes and have lots of other experience outside of classes

withdrawal

[shell kindle]

No it won’t matter

[worldly herald]

ok great ty

[tacit lark]

Ik people that have failed non math classes and got into top math phds

[slim wigeon]

hi, not really looking for advice today but it's PhD app season and I am not happy

[spring portal]

My situation rn:

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-fine-gif-24177057

Applying for PhD's while juggling final year courses and thesis work

[shell kindle]

Good luck everyone!

[spring portal]

information theory

[pearl isle]

It’s brutal

I’m not doing a thesis but I am teaching

And I’m actually dying

[weak marsh]

Hey

[mossy niche]

im teaching and doing a thesis on top of 3 grad classes its so cooked

[cosmic magnet]

math applicants are built diff

[tardy kayak]

echoing a convo in a grad chat:

is admissions somewhat stochastic, I feel like among my older friends some of them took a year or two before they got in somewhere and some of them got several acceptances out of undergrad and it often feels like there's no correlation between how "impressive" their position was vs how quickly they got accepted

there is some randomness to it, it's very hard to tell based on paper who would be a good fit and who isn't. I'm sure that committees are already trying to do the best they can, and even then, lots of students drop out

impressiveness has nothing to do with it
if you are like - on track to cure cancer
and your target program has a bunch of algebraic geometry profs - they dont care
if a professor can see themselves producing useful work with a student for 5-7 years and spending nearly 50-100k on you per year (of funny money), then they will say yes
the conditions for them to see that isn't necessarily what your impression of "a good application" is

[slim wigeon]

I have neither a thesis nor grad classes nor teaching duties for my BS

ok well I might have a thesis but it reads like a joke

[shell kindle]

I literally never submitted my undergrad thesis

[pearl isle]

Dw I have no thesis also

[mossy niche]

everyone ive spoken to has just told me, better hope the admissions committee has people that know your letter writers personally

[slim wigeon]

yea that sounds right

[spring portal]

I am cooked for this reason as an international applicant

[mossy niche]

thats probably one reason why you only ever see absolutely cracked international math grad students

[shell kindle]

This is just not true

[tacit lark]

this is an exagerration

[mossy niche]

well, its the difference between having a 1% chance and a 10% chance, its quite significant

[tacit lark]

Im not sure about that.

I think it helps if your letter writers are known but i dont think they have to know them personally.

obviously if people know your letter writer personally they may take the letter more seriously.

[mossy niche]

are you applying in usa

[hot wadi]

it is very unlikely

forget the word "very unlikey"

i just tried to search for something similar and i couldn't find any such thing

imo u should not worry about it

especially that ur applying in the usa

i think tho this may lead to some "administrative" problems with names and stuff that i do not know of

[hot wadi]

which should be fixed and should be fine

idk if u are an int student

there are some things that have to match when ur applying for a visa/study permit

etc

lots of things

but as far as "ur rejected cuz .." no

[shadow bobcat]

Nah I'm a US student my current university has a system for like preferred names

[hot wadi]

then ur golden! good luck with apps

[shadow bobcat]

Thank you!

[void horizon]

the name a trans person used to go by

[covert pond]

is caltech a good universitiy for grad school? I heard it is rlly cracked but small

[shell kindle]

I think it draws a certain type of student

But if the faculty are a match for your research interests, then yes it is highly regarded

[mossy niche]

it is really good if you know exactly what you want to research

[covert pond]

so if someones unsure they should apply somewhere larger

[shell kindle]

Yes, if you're unsure of your mathematical interests it is generally recommended to apply to larger institutions

[smoky jetty]

plenty of fantastic schools that are larger schools

UCLA, Berkeley, Minnesota, UMich, GTech, Washington, Wisconsin, Rutgers, I'll be biased and throw on OSU

100% go for a larger school if you aren't deadset on a particular area

One benefit of being here at OSU is that not only are there people doing algebraic combinatorics but there's actually 4 people and they all do different things

if you can find a school in a similar setup, with multiple people who do things you're interested in

that seems ideal

[raven sun]

This will not cause an issue (speaking partially from experience). You can also specify your identity to the schools and just say your letters are under a different name because of this (your call)

However I would check in with people (perhaps former students) that the people you’re applying to be advised by aren’t horribly transphobic. Just make sure

[left breach]

Sorry if off-topic (nothing else seemed like a better fit) but any adjacent channels here for job posts? Hiring students/recent grads with math backgrounds

[molten frigate]

none specifically for that, feel free to discuss math career-related topics in e.g. #advanced-lounge or the graduate lounge channel if you gain access

[covert pond]

Anyone here at eth zurich

[worldly herald]

I'm considering graduating a year early and getting a master's degree outside of the country before applying to a phd program because of the current politcal climate in the usa, would it be a big issue to lose complex analysis and differential geometry? Here are my 2 possible course plan projections. I'd also be dropping the CS minor if i want to graduate a year earlier

would i be unprepared for trying to start a phd with just the3-year plan (the one on the left?)

that's why i was considering trying to get a master's after that if i go for that

[shell kindle]

Hmmmm

It seems like you'll have hit most of the expected undergrad topics expect for complex analysis

But

A lot of people doing phds are entering the phd with grad courses already taken

[mossy niche]

depends on the quality of your undergrad institution and how admissions will view it

[shell kindle]

Also depends on what sort of research you want to do

[worldly herald]

that's why i was considering going for a master's first

[mossy niche]

it's really hard with only 3 years worth of classes, and a european masters will really help

[worldly herald]

i was thinking of a european masters then applying to a phd program at university of tokyo, since i'd be able to get a recommendation from somebody who knows the professor i'd want to work with there

and i feel like that would probably help my chances quite a bit

[mossy niche]

does Tokyo do advisor based admission

[worldly herald]

im not sure, i was planning on looking into it more

[worldly herald]

grad courses as in the ones you take to prepare for quals?

or the ones after quals

[shell kindle]

Both

[limpid zealot]

courses at the level of graduate study as per the US system

[worldly herald]

all the 400 level ones on that list cover the topics that are on quals. they're mixed grad/undergrad classes at my school and typically undergrads only take one of them

[mossy niche]

does your school do undergrad based quals

[cosmic magnet]

When people mention European masters, do they include the UK usually or no?

[shell kindle]

Yes

[worldly herald]

i don't think so, since undergrads would only be taking one of those sequences typically and the grad students usually take a few to prepare for quals

[mossy niche]

some schools do quals based on undergrad material, mine does it solely on material not expected to be covered in an undergrad curriculum

[worldly herald]

it's confusing since both undergrads and grads take those classes

so im not really sure

[cosmic magnet]

Asking since I was initially planning on masters programs in the US but given that funding is bad I'm applying straight to PhD

[worldly herald]

it's just typically meant as like the "final" undergrad class you would take in 4th year or something

but im not sure

[mossy niche]

one way to determine this is like, do you guys start with measure theory in analysis, etc

[worldly herald]

in the 400 level analysis yeah we go over measure theory

in the 311/312 we dont

[mossy niche]

then your schedule looks fine

well now I'm slightly confused

what is the 400 vs 600 level algebra

[worldly herald]

600 is after quals

441/442/443 covers most of robert b ash algebra

[worldly herald]

oh, measure theory isn't done until the 2nd quarter of the analysis sequence i just realized, does that change things?

[mossy niche]

it's probably school dependent

maybe your first quarter is a review of undergrad analysis like baby rudin

[worldly herald]

yeah it seems like it

[mossy niche]

at my institution it's straight into measure theory then functional then complex

[worldly herald]

a little bit of other stuff ig?

[mossy niche]

that seems like a standard undergrad analyis course

[worldly herald]

this is the first quarter so that makes sense

2nd/3rd is this less than what a grad analysis would typically be though i'm guessing?

[mossy niche]

just the lebesgue measure seems like a soft introduction

[worldly herald]

these are the different grad analysis classes

[mossy niche]

i guess your school has plenty of courses

[worldly herald]

i was considering doing one of these in my 4th year if i have time

but i think id probably wanna do the algebra one instead

https://web.pdx.edu/~veerman/0_mainfile.pdf this is what the number theory would cover, is this more like undergrad or graduate (if it covers the entire book, i think maybe skipping first couple chapters)

[mossy niche]

idk I don't know any number theory

[worldly herald]

is this measure theory

the number theory class covers this

[mossy niche]

then it's grad level proba

[worldly herald]

would i be alright with the real analysis class not going super in-depth in measure theory then if my number theory class covers it more?

it seems like this is covered

[shell kindle]

That is not that much measure theory

That is very little measure theory in fact

[mossy niche]

that's msr theory that can be applied to dynamics

[worldly herald]

thats unfortunate

[mossy niche]

and only that

[worldly herald]

so definitely less than what i should know im guessing

[shell kindle]

Do you know what area of math you want to do for phd?

[worldly herald]

i'm not entirely sure, it's still my 2nd year

i did an reu in origami math which was a lot of combinatorics/graph theory and it was fun

i was trying to have as much variety as possible during undergrad

[shell kindle]

Unfortunately origami math does not have that much to do

And would not be a viable phd

[worldly herald]

why not? i havent done a lot but it seems like theres a lot of open problems in it

is it just because of it being uncommon?

since then professors wouldnt really want to advise that

[shell kindle]

Yeah it's uncommon

And it's quite niche

[worldly herald]

if i know of a professor who would want to does that solve the issue, or would it still be a bad idea? i'm not really decided on it anyways, since i'd like to learn more about other topics first

[shell kindle]

Generally you want multiple potential advisors at an institution

[worldly herald]

that makes sense

i'm not sure exactly what topic i'd want to do still, i've been enjoying algebra so far but havent really done anything specialized enough do know if i'd wanna do research with that

[mossy niche]

as a second year you're not expected to know more than the most general sense of roughly what you want to do

[worldly herald]

if i'd be planning to graduate after my 3rd year though, i feel like i should probably know more what i want to do

but if i do a masters first maybe not

[shell kindle]

In a masters you do specialize a bit

Like you do write a thesis

[mossy niche]

a masters is usually recommended for us students if you're unable to take sufficient grad classes

[shell kindle]

So it's still good to have a general idea of the direction you want to go in

[worldly herald]

i think i'll see how this year goes then decide if i want to do the 4th year or not

i'd also be losing the cs minor if i do only 3 years

[mossy niche]

tbf the cs minor is only useful outside of academia

[worldly herald]

that's fair, would it be better to just learn programming on my own?

[shell kindle]

CS minor is not useful at all

[mossy niche]

just take what looks interesting

[shell kindle]

If you need to program just learn how to code on your own

[mossy niche]

i only happen to have a cs minor because I took enough cs classes on accident

[limpid zealot]

is an mGRE of 650 too low to report?

[shell kindle]

What percentile?

[limpid zealot]

44th

[shell kindle]

oog

Is your undergrad in the US?

[limpid zealot]

nope

[shell kindle]

oog

Is your undergrad a well known institution

[limpid zealot]

nope

[shell kindle]

I'm assuming that you're applying to US schools if you took the mgre

Right?

[limpid zealot]

yeah

[shell kindle]

Oh goodness ok

Is the rest of your application strong

[limpid zealot]

I'd say so?

been working on a complex analysis paper with a prof and some colleagues since the last year

[shell kindle]

Ok that sounds good

[limpid zealot]

recently have been assisting on a paper in particle physics as the math guy of the group

[shell kindle]

Ummm if you're applying to schools that don't require the mgre, I would not submit it to them

If there are schools that require it, of course you need to submit it

[limpid zealot]

four years of research experience, two years of TA experience

all of them just say optional

[shell kindle]

Ok don't submit then

[limpid zealot]

I see

[shell kindle]

Do you have anything already published or is everything in various stages of draft

[limpid zealot]

mostly drafts at the moment

the complex analysis work is the consequence of an REU

[shell kindle]

Oh having a reu is good

Yeah don't submit mgre

[limpid zealot]

ah, alright

[queen jolt]

i couldnt find a career channel? maybe this is the right place to ask? i want to pursue higher studies and go for a masters in maths, im currently in an undergrad engineering degree. What are some good programs /unis in europe that i should be looking into and prepare myself for their application process. If you have suggestions outside europe that's welcome too.

[glossy river]

A good place to start could be the ranking websites like THE, QS

[spring portal]

Europe predominantly looks at grades I believe and to a good extent course requirements. So engg -> math may be hard in europe unless the programs explicitly allows engineers too. US should be better for something like applied math track.

But again, I am over generalizing a bunch of things. In the end, requirements vary from program to program so you gotta do the research specific to you.

[hot wadi]

you are definitely right

europe is much harder to get into if you are not a math major

(speaking from experience)

they basically just look at the courses you hvae taken and do a calcuation of credit hours

[mossy niche]

European science degree are much more math rigorous than usa

for one of the worst offenders see economics

in USA you cant even assume an econ major can take a derivative

[shell kindle]

[cosmic magnet]

Econ majors not knowing math go brrr

lowkey, quantitative economics should be the only valid econ major

followed by a rigorous year of game theory

[shell kindle]

I just took a look at the Oxford econ major and you can get by with only doing calculus in your first year

[cosmic magnet]

avg PPE grad not knowing math

[mossy niche]

this is the same for the US math degree tho

[shell kindle]

As in

For an oxford econ major, you don't need to do any math after your 1st year

[mossy niche]

maybe so, but I'm more referring to the actual mathematical content in economics courses

[shell kindle]

Such as

[hardy aurora]

oxford doesn't have an 'econ' major

[shell kindle]

Sure, there's PPE and EM

Economics and Management

[queen jolt]

yeah that is one of my concern, going from engg-> math. i dont wanna just take another bachelor's degree first 😭 and im more leaned towards pure maths than appl.

which makes things harder cuz applied would be prefered for an engg.

[queen jolt]

i've had a few semesters with maths, altho i dont know if pure math would be allowed but i think theyd allow a basic maths master not too specialised? i do see people switching to maths after engineering

but ig people easily get into applied maths programs since that is much needed for engineers

that's just my opinion idk what the scenario is

[queen jolt]

like which ones

had discrete maths, engineering maths, calc, differential equations

nah,that im studying on my own

[queen jolt]

im not in europe

but i aim for a european uni

[eternal hill]

How many grad courses should I realistically have taken by the end of my bachelor's to have a chance of getting into grad school at one of the top US university?

I realize it takes more than that, but I presume some amount of courses are almost necessary to even have a chance too

And another question, if I really want to do grad school at a really good US university and I don't get in this winter, would it be a stupid idea to do a year as a self-paying student at my university (outside of a degree, so after my bachelor but not in a master's program) so that I get a stronger application for the subsequent year's application where I would then hope to get in?

[shell kindle]

What do you mean by a top university

[eternal hill]

They vary a bit, top 20-ish in terms of all around math. The one I'm most interested in has probably the strongest department in the field that I'm interested in

[slim wigeon]

I know someone at a nearby school who got into Boston University for math and I’m pretty sure she never did any grad courses

she did read a research paper for her senior thesis however

we took functional analysis and measure theory together but that was undergrad level

[pearl isle]

I know grad students at Berkeley who never took grad classes. I even talked to a grad student here who was an art major in undergrad

[cosmic magnet]

Yo, maybe I can get into Berkeley? There's still a chance

[eternal hill]

Welp. I mean, I've talked to quite a few undergrads at Berkeley - they all seem to be speedrunning the grad curriculum starting their 2nd year as an undergrad lmao

[shell kindle]

Berkeley is quite difficult to get in to

Berkeley math phd only very rarely accepts undergrads from Berkeley

[eternal hill]

Damn, didn't know that

[shell kindle]

Taking grad courses as a Berkeley undergrad is relatively easy

[eternal hill]

Do they favour anything in particular when choosing who to admit then?

[eternal hill]

True... sometimes

Agol's algtop fucked me up lol

[shell kindle]

"relatively easy" as in the department does not put up too many barriers

[pearl isle]

I’m in Givental’s right now lol

It’s kicking my ass

[pearl isle]

Yeah. The undergrads are insanely cracked honestly. the grad students are also cracked, but Berkeley PhD has a reputation for taking some math students with non traditional paths to math if they have shown a lot of recent growth

I’ve heard from an admissions panel that they care significantly more about trajectory than raw amt you’ve studied

The art student for example didn’t do any math first two years, but began learning it very fast their junior year

[eternal hill]

Another important thing I was wondering about: one of my quarter semesters end in january, will my grades for that quarter also be taken into consideration in the applications somehow?

[shell kindle]

You can submit your grades if desired

[eternal hill]

Ok, awesome

Do you think there'd be time to change judgement based on it though? I think the exams are like around the 20th of january

And I suppose emails for admissions are sent out around start february or smth, right?

[shell kindle]

Yes, most decisions are made between mid feb and mid march

Most acceptances are march onwards

[eternal hill]

Oh

Awesome!

You have just made my day!!!

[shell kindle]

Every school is a bit different about how organized the process is

It varies quite a bit, depending on how organized the professors on the grad admissions committee are

[eternal hill]

But is there always an option to sumbit the grades later on?

[shell kindle]

Well you usually directly email them I think

[limpid zealot]

is it possible to indicate by any means that a class you took was actually graduate level (i.e. same examination, sat with grad students, etc.) if the university itself has marked it "Undergrad" due to state policy? (foreign applicant)

[shell kindle]

Usually in a graduate application, when you list your classes, there will be a place to list the textbook used so that can give an indication

There is also usually a section where you can apply oddities

If all else fails, then you can put it in your personal statement

[limpid zealot]

thank you

[slim wigeon]

90% of my reading is outside of any assigned book

[shell kindle]

That's something to mention in your personal statement

[limpid zealot]

we can mention additional readings there?

that's good to hear

[shell kindle]

You can talk about whatever you want in your personal statement

Ideally you talk about things that explain why you are well suited to math grad school

[pearl isle]

I would personally not do this

To me it would come off as at best desperate and at worst dishonest

But up to you

[limpid zealot]

I see

the issue is that it's actually a graduate class in every aspect

right down to who we sat with in the lectures

[pearl isle]

The thing is let the admissions committee make that judgement

[limpid zealot]

it can't be called that due to a national policy

fair enough

[limpid zealot]

so in that case, is the primary means of judging courses just mentioning the textbooks and / or course contents if it's asked on the application?

[pearl isle]

Yes, but imo don’t spend too much time talking about your courses in your personal statement unless you really need to fill space

They have your course list and they have your resume, taking classes doesn’t tell them how you will do as a researcher

[limpid zealot]

I see

[south lion]

Out of curiosity, how important is it to have some breadth in terms of the types of math one has taken courses on? Like, if I'm mainly interested in alg/top/geo and my courses reflect that heavily, is it important for me to make sure to get something like functional analysis on there too so that they can see that I am also still capable of the analytic side of things?...

[mossy niche]

I know someone who didn't take algebra and got into michigan

they were really heavy into diffgeo though

[south lion]

I see. So it really is much more depth than breadth

I'm just asking cause I'm currently having to choose between diffgeo and functional analysis

And the last analytic thing I did was in my second year, over 1.5 years ago now lol

[mossy niche]

there's no need to cover everything just because it seems like everyone else is doing it

except for, like, you better take the core undergrad classes

[south lion]

Yeah, ofc, done with those

[shell kindle]

Breadth is important as well

[south lion]

Ah fuck

[mossy niche]

you have to remember that functional is intended to be learned in a first year phd anyways

[limpid zealot]

functional is not an undergrad course?

[mossy niche]

not usually

[south lion]

Not here either, but neither is diffgeo to be fair

[limpid zealot]

wait

so then what's a typical set of undergrad classes supposed to be

[mossy niche]

unless your class uses something like kreyszig

[shell kindle]

Also functional analysis is related to alg/top/geo

So

[mossy niche]

real analysis and abstract algebra

[limpid zealot]

that's it?

[mossy niche]

yeah that's the core of it. obviously you should be taking more

[south lion]

Hm... maybe I should do the functional analysis one then after all?? I do also know around half of the diffgeo material already, but idk if that's moreso a reason to take it or not so that I can get it on the transcript

[mossy niche]

functional is just good to know anyways

[pearl isle]

Also complex and linear. And then yeah you’re expected to take electives but it’s not rlly as important which ones

(Obviously the point of electives is they give you a chance to specialize more)

So I wouldn’t rlly say it’s like a bad system

[mossy niche]

yeah this is also true. the thing is my school doesn't offer a good complex undergrad class

it's a service class so I just took the grad one

[pearl isle]

Ah

[cosmic magnet]

Wait really? That sounds kind of fricked

[pearl isle]

this is true everywhere

at least in the US

it is very common for places to accept their undergrads at quite lower rates than other schools

the reasoning is that they want to promote people going elsewhere to get different experiences

(tho note: as someone going to berkeley for undergrad, I also am malding at this statistic so I'm not exactly defending it)

[cosmic magnet]

Yeah fair enough. I'm applying to my undergrad institution's MS program as a safety similarly

Though I think they're pretty lenient in accepting students to the program

[pearl isle]

Sadly Berkeley has no masters

I’m applying to some places in Europe but none I would really call safeties

[cosmic magnet]

Europe would be interesting to apply to but I feel like it's too big of a move right after undergrad

Also don't know if there MS programs are fully funded. I was looking at Utrecht and couldn't fin anything about MS funding

[raw quail]

I believe Utrecht has some scholarships for the MS, but not a lot and even less for non-european students

I got admitted last year but they were unwilling/unable to make the funding situation work for me :/

[pearl isle]

They’re not. But it’s still reasonable from what I understand: eg it’s significantly less expensive than US undergrad

[glossy river]

At least you are in a very beautiful city, all the photos of Utrecht I've seen look amazing.

[raw quail]

well I ended up not going because I couldn't get funding

well I ended up not going because I couldn't get funding

[knotty marsh]

What's an SOP really supposed to be... what does it tell about you... I've been thinking it's about my mathematical journey, and I've been talking about all the research and mathematical activities I've done over the past years

I wanna edit it a bit, but I need to understand what parameters to optimize for, if that makes sense

[tulip badge]

Stop using so many alarm words. And change your name to something other than just 'math'.

[queen jolt]

what even is bro writing

[spring portal]

Got letters from one of my recommenders in

my first deadline is on 15th Nov so I gotta ask the other two profs to kindly work on it asap lol

[tacit lark]

Woah nov 15

Early deadline

[knotty marsh]

Bump^

[tacit lark]

That sounds fine

Have you tried finding resources for writing a SOP online?

[knotty marsh]

Ive looked at samples

I have one ready, but Im not sure how to optimize it, whats the commitee even looking for

[tacit lark]

Have the people writing your letters of rec read it

It should convey that you’ll succeed in graduate school and why you want to pursue a phd.

[knotty marsh]

One of them, but he did not really give me any criticism, he just wanted it for context

[tacit lark]

How you do that is up to you and depends on your journey.

[knotty marsh]

Hmm I see

[tacit lark]

https://web.ma.utexas.edu/users/demason/DeMason, Kenneth Personal Statement UT Austin 20191210.pdf i like this statement.

I read this when i was an ug applying to grad school

[mossy niche]

there are 2 schools of thought for writing an sop

some professors dont care one bit about any sort of exposition, they just want to see you can write about and talk about math

[cosmic magnet]

My profile isn't that strong to write this thoroughly😭

[pearl isle]

It’s funny bc every good sample personal statement has literally 3 REUs

It’s such a bruh moment

[slim wigeon]

yea it sucks ass for those of us who didn't get accepted into a single REU

[cosmic magnet]

I didn't even apply to any

I just ended up doing summer readings and research. Time to clutch up and finish my SOP today

[mossy niche]

this just means you can spend more time talking about the rsearch you are currently interested in

1000 words isnt a lot

[cosmic magnet]

Time to talk about game theory and AI😁

[chilly turret]

no literally

[swift palm]

Do I need to spend $25 per school to send my mgre scores even though I used my free score sending options but I did it in spring so it doesn't show in the application portals?

[mossy niche]

no

[swift palm]

what do I need to do then?

because they don't show up in the application portals as received

[shell kindle]

Lots of people (including me) got into good programs without REUs so don't let that discourage you

[tacit lark]

You dont need to have done REUs. You can replace the REU part with an opportunity you found very beneficial.

I just like the structure of the statement.

[pearl isle]

Well I’ve done an REU. Just not 3 like it seems everyone who gets in has done lol

[tacit lark]

🤔

You definitely dont need 3 REUs lol.

[shell kindle]

Very few people have done 3 reus

[pearl isle]

Yet it seems that everyone with a sample statement of purpose online has lol

At that point why even post the statement of purpose if you’re already cracked it probably made no difference to your acceptance chances

[shell kindle]

[pearl isle]

Ignore me I’m just venting

[pearl isle]

As soon as you can lol

[sage berry]

hi guys i am rohith from india

i am currently doing masters in usf and i want to transfer my college

would you recommend best one?

[tacit lark]

Typically summer before 3rd or 4th year.

Most programs wont except a first year

Some do. There are also specific programs geared towards first years.

[pearl isle]

You should apply despite the fact that you likely won’t get in

Worst case you get a little headstart on your essays for the year after

REUs don’t have hard and fast reqs usually

It’s mostly case by case

Np. Gl

[tacit lark]

Are you at a US university?

Yea thats very rare i think.

And i intl students may refer to non US citizens at US universities

https://sites.google.com/view/mathreu

[shell kindle]

US REUs are largely funded by the NSF which has citizenship/residency requirements for participants

[pearl isle]

true. Though you should apply anyway. There were a number of UK students at my REU

[mossy niche]

reus will accept international students under the caveat that you wont get funding

[pearl isle]

true. The students at the REU I went to got funding from their home institution

[slim wigeon]

so what does this have to do with #graduate-applications ?

[pearl isle]

I think it's a reasonable concern for students applying in america in the next 4 years

I mean honestly if you're in a blue state you're probably fine

but I would (and am) seriously reconsidering any applications in red states

[smoky jetty]

I am already in grad school in a red state 💀

[pearl isle]

rip. I do think you'll probably be fine but I also think the people who were dismissing @ math as if it was a ridiculous concern were a bit unfair

after all, trump is a fascist who has repeatedly stressed his desire to put eg immigrants in camps

and to do vengeance on his political opponents (which is probably not random math students, but if he has that attitude it's likely there are many trump supporters who do too)

[slim wigeon]

realistically I don’t think it’s something this channel can do anything about

[pearl isle]

sure. but discussing like "how should politics change where I decide to grad school" is a reasonable thing to put in this channel imo

[queen jolt]

are you guys fr lol? this aint the channel to be discussing the world politics

[pearl isle]

my point is that if politics impacts your grad school applications, its reasonable to discuss that impact in the grad school applications channel

[slim wigeon]

grad school admissions will probably be funny this time around

I wrote a paper for my English class about how certain unfriendly legislation in red states has been causing a full-scale exodus of intelligence from red to blue

granted this is math and not humanities as in the subject of my paper

but it does affect a lot of faculty either way

so I imagine some states are going to get a lot more applicants than others

ultimately just guessing tho

fuck english classes btw, completely tanked my performance in all my classes and not just gpa

[pearl isle]

I took every single non math class I had to take at my school pass/fail

literally every single one

it was very nice bc I could put in 0 effort

and just coast

[slim wigeon]

wow

[cosmic magnet]

so the strat is to apply to red school states?

That may be the move💀

[cosmic magnet]

Could you expand a bit on this? Interested in knowing what this entails

[pearl isle]

I mean I don’t really know I’ve only heard like rumors + a couple non traditional grad students I’ve talked to

All I know is like we have a bit of a reputation for taking risks on/admitting more non traditional PhD students than other unis

Such as for example motivated students from other majors

Or smaller schools

[cosmic magnet]

Ah makes sense. I fit none of those moulds so I hope I get lucky with the grad committee

[pearl isle]

I mean berkeley is a crazy competitive school and those people do probably have straight up worse chances than most math majors

it's just like

they have better chances relative to other crazy competitive schools

[glossy river]

University of Utah has good reputation, and I really like the state.

[main marlin]

what field do they specialize in?

[glossy river]

they have a research grant in algebra/geoemtry/topology so a combination of those

maybe other fields, but those are the ones i'm interested in

[swift palm]

They have very strong geometric group theorist(s)

[swift palm]

(asking again) then what do I need to do?

[spice lion]

anyone went from BS Computer Science -> MS Applied Mathematics (or even Pure)?

[spring portal]

Should be possible assuming you have strong math background (bunch of courses) and the programs you apply for are holistic (like in the US)

[smoky jetty]

iirc they're strong in Commutative Algebra

[spice lion]

I took Calc I-III, Discrete, Intro to Linear Algebra, Linear Algebra, Abstract Algebra, and an Introductory Stats class.

Couldn’t take differential equations because of schedule conflict sadly.

And yeah lacking all other important math classes like real analysis.

[spring portal]

I think pure math might be tough, but applied math might work depending upon area of research interest, past experience, etc

[spice lion]

Lmao, that’s why im wondering whether I have the chance of getting TA/RA position if i do applied math

[smoky jetty]

typically yes

TA and RA positions are stipend + tuition waiver

lol more like 5

So I am currently on a 30k / year stipend (before taxes) and I don't have to pay tuition

1 sec I actually have the data for this

wait when you say work

do you mean TAing or also coursework?

Ok I'll just answers both

I am lucky enough to be on fellowship so I don't have to be a TA

I spend ~36-37 hours a week on coursework + research (which currently only consists of reading while me and the advisor try to figure out a direction to pursue)

but yes I am very lucky to be in this position

My roommates have to be a TA and they spend around 10-20 hours a week on it

depending on if they have to grade exams and what not

lol no I'm just lucky

I don't think I'm particularly smarter or anything than the rest of my cohort

idk why I got a fellowship but I'm going to take advantage of it if at all possible

Some universities have fellowships

some advisors have grants to pay for students so they don't have to TA

you can get external NSF fellowships (very competititive)

[mossy niche]

you need a postbacc

[smoky jetty]

Well I'm sure equivalent things exist in Europe lol

I am in the US and so that is what I know

[mossy niche]

nothing

[smoky jetty]

which in particular means I know basically nothing

[mossy niche]

you need to fill out the self reported test score section

[smoky jetty]

you should actually check the sites of the universities you're applying to to be sure

but most (again, not necessarily all) places have the policy of "self report your score, we'll ask for an official copy if we give you an offer and you accept it"

[spice lion]

In a few universities in the US, you can land a TA or RA role (20 hrs/week, I believe) as a MS student; you qualify for a tuition waiver, and you also make a few $ that should help you cover room and other basic expenses.

[spice lion]

$24k and above afaik

like definitely not a lot but enough to "survive"

[smoky jetty]

budgeting is a good habit to get into

not just for grad school but for life

I've started using one in grad school and I wish I used one earlier in UG

being forced to track every dollar you spend makes you more at ease IMO

I'm being more mindful with how I spend my money and making sure it goes to things I actually enjoy (and conversely I have found that I actually have money to spend on the little things that make me happy)

finances are a very important aspect of grad school and a budget helps you manage that aspect

[slim wigeon]

so how much do you spend on room, food, transport, idk health

[tacit lark]

many schools in the US do this

most give you a stipend and you have to TA. It is reasonably common for schools to give fellowships to first years.

[smoky jetty]

You may benefit from a budget in the opposite way: you may find that you have some extra money to make your life a little cozier

I use a spreadsheet

Apps exist

Many things out there

[swift palm]

some schools explicitly ask for officially send your scores

[tacit lark]

Yes my second sentence says that this is reasonably common.

i actually dont know how common it is. It probably isn't as common as I originally thought, but some of my friends went to schools where they give fellowships to first years so they dont have to teach.

[cosmic magnet]

As an undergrad, I'm spending about 200 on food, room is about 550-600 (at max) and health + transport covered by tuition on a per month basis

[tacit lark]

this depends on location moreso than you being an ug

[cosmic magnet]

I'm hoping it'll be the same in grad school assuming the school's in a similarly priced region (college town)

Yeah fair

[limpid zealot]

dumb question, but are applied math courses seen as a negative when applying for a pure program?

I've got the usual pure courses done (real, func, comp, topo, groups, measure), but here undergrads aren't allowed to take more advanced pure courses

so my remaining slots are dominated by stuff like fluid mechanics or game theory or numerical methods

[tacit lark]

i dont think so as long as you have a solid pure math background.

they may not necessarily help compared to taking more advanced pure courses

[limpid zealot]

I see

Also, are you expected to calculate major GPAs on your own when supplying it on an application?

I don't have those on any transcripts

[mossy niche]

you need to fill it out in case they dont know you even have a score

[cosmic magnet]

That's a very very rough estimate but it's probably a bit more ngl

I try to minimize eating out

A lb of chicken breast is 3-4 dollars so a kilo would be 6-7 at max

[main marlin]

ah i see, seems like they are strong in algebra overall

[main marlin]

i dont rly think so, i might go for pure math for grad school but im not even in any sort of a mathematics major

like as long as you do things on ur own, such as doing directed reading, it should be fine

[tacit lark]

No

[main marlin]

i feel like it rly depends on state

[tacit lark]

Obviously

There are plenty of cities outside of manhattan that are very expensive.

[main marlin]

oh absolutely

[smoky jetty]

U live in an exceptionally cheap area of the US

[cosmic magnet]

True at least in terms of rent💀

[smoky jetty]

Rent is a big part of it lol

[mossy niche]

if you have room mates then this is reasonable

for most of the us

[tacit lark]

It depends what you mean by most of US.

In most decently large cities this is cheap.

[main marlin]

yeah 600 a month is very cheap especially if ur in a single room

[swift palm]

Of course I fill it out. But should I not also arrange ets to send the scores "officially"?

[mossy niche]

i thought you already sent them

[livid shore]

Did you apply for one, or it was just granted to you?

[swift palm]

I did, but I did it in spring and they don't show up.

[smoky jetty]

It was just given by the university

[polar dirge]

random question: for those who have already been through this process--when in the year would yall say fly-ins start post-acceptances and what days of the week do they tend to fall on? are most of them over the weekend/monday/friday?

[somber brook]

Would it still be worth applying to PhD programs even if I'm not finishing my master's next semester? The original plan was to finish my MA in Spring '25 but now that I'm dropping a course I won't be graduating till fall '25. I'm just not sure if I'm still a good candidate for a PhD program without a masters.

[tacit lark]

do you think its worth trying and spending the time and money?

if so, then try it. if not, then wait.

I think joining a masters program and leaving without a masters will hurt your application, but you may have a chance at some places.

[somber brook]

In the most ideal world, I would stay at my current institution for the PhD, which means my credits would end up transferring into the PhD program anyway. Had I not missed the deadline for this year's application I might have been in the PhD program without having finished my master's.

[mossy niche]

the phd admission might be contingent on you finishing your masters

[somber brook]

Hm

[molten frigate]

definitely aim to graduate with a masters, you can also use the additional time to e.g. meet potential advisors or try to do research

[pearl isle]

Personally, I feel like it would be a waste to come one semester from finishing the masters and just drop out, even if it would be dropping out for the purpose of getting a PhD

You’re close enough that you might as well finish it

[somber brook]

If I stay at my current school I would get the master's degree while taking credits toward the PhD anyway, so that's why I am on the fence. But I see everyone's point. Perhaps taking a gap semester isn't the worst idea.

[smoky jetty]

for me they were after I got accepted into places

and they were mostly over the weekend

maybe sometimes starting on a Friday or sometimes ending on a Monday

(so that you can sit in on a class or two)

make friends with profs for your courses your last semester

so that if needed you can move an exam or whatever

I had one class my last spring semester which had required attendance and I had to keep telling the prof "yea I'm visiting XYZ grad school I need to be excused this Friday"

thankfully they were understanding

also had to move an oral exam

again thankfully that other prof was understanding

I bet most of your classes your last semester will be math courses

and so you have the advantage that those profs also did grad school visits so hopefully they'll be understanding

[pearl isle]

Apparently UCSB requires the GRE General

How hard is the general GRE

can I just wing it without studying at all

I studied for the subject test a little already so I'm not too worried abt the math section

[shell kindle]

General GRE is easy

Well

I shouldn't say easy

But generally you don't need to study for it

[glossy river]

Maybe study a bit for it so that you know what to expect, but it shouldn't be a problem really

[pearl isle]

ok sounds good

[limpid zealot]

GRE General is like the SAT but easier

I'd say just skim the english section of Princeton Review because the MCQs tend to follow a set pattern

[calm relic]

Trying to work on a research proposal for a scholarship application (NSERC-CGSM), and I'm kinda stuck on the "approach I'll take" part

Any recommendations for how I can make "First, figure out what most of this even means" sound professional?

[mossy niche]

you won't get near a perfect which is what most people in other disciplines aim for, but for just math admissions I highly doubt it matters that much

also a lot of vocab that you might not be familiar with

[pearl isle]

Alright bet. I mean the literal only school I’m applying to that needs it is UCSB

[mossy niche]

honestly I just said not applying to any such school

[pearl isle]

I love Santa Barbara though

It’s such a pretty campus

And a really pretty town

Decent topology faculty too

When I checked

So imma just wing it this weekend

And see how it goes

[cosmic magnet]

Anyone know of some solid funded MS programs?

Most of what I search are all gambles in terms of funding

[chilly turret]

Wake Forest has a funded MS program but only half of each cohort is funded

[cosmic magnet]

Thanks! I'll definitely consider applying there

[mossy niche]

its not common in math, you might also consider some postbacc programs

[cosmic magnet]

Fair but I'm not sure if I'd want to 'lose' a year by doing a postbacc

[mossy niche]

this isnt really losing a year, especially if you dont get into any programs you want

my uni's postbacc had someone from mit. apparently they were rejected from every program they applied to, reppalied the next year and got in almost everywhere

[cosmic magnet]

Do you mind if I DM about the postbacc program?

[mossy niche]

well, you can, but im not a participant myself nor do i know much other than it seems to be helpful

[barren gorge]

What’s your uni, if you don’t mind?

[knotty marsh]

For those who need to hear this: do not hyperfixate on the worst possible outcomes, a lot of it is in your head and it's also completely unproductive... it's a stressful time for all of us, you're not alone💖.

[main marlin]

yeah its just unnecessary stress

i mean a math phd is competitive but just work hard, do ur own research etc and thats enough to get into any phd program imo

[south lion]

Could someone help me figure out a list of universities with a good grad/phd research program for algebraic topology and low-dimensional topology?

[hot wadi]

UGA

it has david gay

also most canadian unis

are very strong in AT

uwo has rick jardine

ubc

[glossy river]

Stony Brook has a good geometry department

[main marlin]

yeah the simons center is prob one of the top in the world, a good place for theoretical physicists as well

[limpid zealot]

Is the stipend sufficient to cover living there? I've heard that area is quite expensive

[shell kindle]

UM has a funded masters that transitions into the PhD program

[south lion]

Awesome, thanks for all of these!

[glossy river]

Idk I only did ug there. But it's in Long Island, so not anywhere near the prices of Manhattan

[limpid zealot]

ah, alright

[cosmic magnet]

Thanks!

[barren gorge]

Hi guys, I’m a physics student in Latin America but I’d like to pursue a career in mathematics; maybe specifically in mathematical physics or geometry but maybe not, idk
So now I’m thinking about where I should apply to for grad school. I also assume that a masters in math is best suited for me. Well, with this context I have two questions

It turns out that IMPA (Brazil) and italian universities could be an option for me, which one would be better in “mathematics in general”/mathematical physics/geometry?

Second question, can you guys make me aware of some funded masters in unis where mathematical physics is big (or geometry)? Because I’m totally lost, of course I know MIT, oxbridge, etc are very good but I’m not getting into those

[cosmic magnet]

You can look towards Wake Forest which has a funded MS program

I looked at UFlorida and it also seems to have a funded MS program

[barren gorge]

Thank you 👍 Are those better than IMPA?
If anyone could answer my IMPA vs. italian unis, I’d be thankful

[fluid egret]

Hey, I'm a US student at a pretty well-ranked liberal arts school and I'm looking at masters programs in Canada, hopefully in differential geometry/ Lie Theory. I got into math pretty late in college - was doing forestry before - but did a summer of research, a thesis, and most of the offered higher level math classes. I haven't been able to figure out how competitive admissions are for international students to many of the top schools there (UBC, UofT, McGill, Calgary,etc) and was wondering if anyone had insight. Thanks!

[delicate scroll]

do schools care about general gre or just math gre

i would assume both but idk

[shell kindle]

They generally don't care about the general gre

Some care about the math gre

Some don't

[tacit lark]

they expect you to do well if you take the gen gre tho

ive heard some say they care ab verbal reasoning more than quantitative too

[shell kindle]

The verbal section is not hard though

I'm pretty sure it tests at a lower level than SAT english?

[smoky jetty]

I'd look at a list of schools you're interested in applying to

and seeing what their requirements are

and make your decision based off that

[cosmic magnet]

Finalised the schools I'm applying and two thirds are reach schools💀

The only 'matches' are my current institution, NC State, Penn State, Wake Forest and UFlorida

[spring portal]

All my schools are reach lol.

Well mainly because the area I want to work on is somewhat niche, so few people work on it or have dedicated track for it.

[slim wigeon]

every school is a reach school

[mossy niche]

I'm sure plenty of schools outside the top 100 will be ecstatic to take us all

[cosmic magnet]

Are Canadian masters programs more forgiving in terms of lower transcript grades?

[spring portal]

yeah but things can get rough based on what you want to do later

[spring portal]

holds true for PhD, even schools in 100-300 I have seen have only like 20-30% acceptance rates (well statistically ofc)

[spring portal]

#advanced-lounge message @tulip rune as I was saying, they have two step selection. First they shortlist, I would get result by December 3rd week. If selected, there are on-site interviews. So it's actually quite a long process.

Their SOP length is bizarre, only 2500 characters

[spring portal]

Did you accelarate your 4 year program and completed it in 3 years? Or did you gain additional credits which makes it equivalent to a 4 year program? For the former, it would be equivalent to a 4y bachelor, for the latter, it is not.

that's what i meant by acceleration, some do that, then its four year equivalent

but if you take additional courses for a 3 year degree such that you have more credits than needed (equivalent to a 4 year program), then its equivalent to only 3 years

its a subtle difference

well that's how uni would award things

if someone takes extra courses (more than 180 ECTS for a 3 year course) that's on them

if its a 4 year 240 ECTS degree that someone completes in 3 years (I am not sure if its even allowed, but let's just assume it is), then its still a 4 year degree equivalent

[dapper raptor]

I keep hearing how important statements of purpose are when applying, Ive only heard from students though, does anyone with closer connections to the application process know how much they actually impacted the outcome for certain people?

[spring portal]

I am having a PhD student help me out, he said CV and SOP are the most important.

Same from professors I met in a conference 3 weeks ago.

[pearl isle]

Conversely, I’ve heard from some professors that they don’t read the SOP

I think it depends on who precisely is on the committee

Everyone has different opinions on what’s important

[spring portal]

That's... odd? How are they gonna know about what student wants to do if they don't read the SOP?

[chilly turret]

I have heard that they aren’t gonna read it f the first paragraph isn’t good, it will just get pushed to the side.

[spring portal]

that may be true

[pearl isle]

There are many who believe your ability to write an essay isn’t reflective of how you’ll do as a math graduate student

[limpid zealot]

I've heard some just delegate it to their grad students?

[spring portal]

SOP contains your experience and future goals. So if they don't read it, how are they even gonna know what the student wants to do?

[pearl isle]

CV, past courses

[limpid zealot]

letters of recommendation, probably

[pearl isle]

That too

I’ve heard this from not only some of my own professors but also a friend at MIT

[limpid zealot]

because a recommender usually comments on research plans on their letter anyway

[pearl isle]

Has told me his professors said this

[spring portal]

What if I have stellar CV but I write that I want to research goldfish in my SOP?

[limpid zealot]

I've heard the same from a prof who taught there for a while

so it holds some ground

[pearl isle]

Again, the cv is more reflective of your ability as a grad student than what you put in your sop

[spring portal]

I guess it differs from department then.

Since I am applying to physics.

[limpid zealot]

there's a nonzero probability someone will check it - if the statistics are anything to go by, don't multiply

[pearl isle]

From what I understand, the reason so much focus is placed on the SOP during app season isn’t because it’s important, but because it’s basically the only thing you can control at the time of writing the apps

While most profs read it, it’s very common to place very little weight in it

From what I’ve heard

[spring portal]

Yes, but its also where you can explain your future goals

SOP must be made credible by backing it up with CV, transcripts and LORs

that's the basic idea I have

[limpid zealot]

I'm going to play devil's advocate and argue the goal on an SOP is seldom met

people switch domains a ton after entering grad school

you might say you're interested in diff geo for instance

[pearl isle]

Plus - it’s not too common to even have a super specific goal

[limpid zealot]

but it's likely you'd switch to alg geo or something else

[pearl isle]

Like most people just mention a field

And pretty much every grad app has an option for that on the form

[limpid zealot]

pre-qualifier stuff is wildly subject to change

[pearl isle]

They don’t need to read the SOP for that lol

[limpid zealot]

besides switching, it's also unlikely you have a thesis in mind unless you've studied at a place that covers a lot more content than the US would during an undergrad

that or you're coming in with a masters

[pearl isle]

As for what I’ve heard is actually most important, it’s LORs

[limpid zealot]

that's what I've heard as well

[pearl isle]

Like by orders of magnitude

A good LOR from professors the committee knows means they’ll probably just admit you

[mossy niche]

my advisor said he doesn't bother reading any sop unless he's really interested by someones letter or it's the final final round

[pearl isle]

Straight up

[mossy niche]

same with other profs I've talked to

[limpid zealot]

the SOP matters when it's a matter of splitting hairs as far as I've heard

[limpid zealot]

that and LORs are expected to provide a thorough breakdown of the candidate's practices from an outside POV

which makes it easier to assess how they'd do on a grad program

solid LORs, as far as I'm aware, offer a concrete comparison with other people from comparable places

[smoky jetty]

IMO write the best SOP you can

put time into it

just for the psychological reasons

cause like what else is in your application?

LORs? You can't read those, you have no control over what's in them

Transcript? Can't fix the past 3 or so years, no point worrying about "what if"

but the SOP you have full control

so writing what you believe to be the best SOP you can is good psychologically for feeling confident in your application (at least this is how I felt)

[pearl isle]

Yeah I agree

SOP is the only thing you control

But the question was how important is it

[smoky jetty]

I mean

[pearl isle]

And I was just saying from what I’ve heard: not very

[smoky jetty]

what else are you gonna spend your time working on for your app lol

some schools find it to be important

some not

seems to be dependant on whoever reads your app

you lose nothing by improving your SOP

[limpid zealot]

agreed

[tacit lark]

SOP “not being important” doesn’t mean a shit SOP doesn’t hurt your app. It just means that for the most part a good one doesnt help much.

But there is still some minimum bar you should attain. And that bar is reader dependent and you dont know what it is so do your best.

[hardy aurora]

Btw I wonder if LORs are also more important than SOPs in the UK

(i totally understand one should write a good SOP, but just curious from a theoretical perspective whether LORs are more important)

[pearl isle]

That’s kinda what this whole conversation has been about

While I agree with others that you should write a good SOP, from what I’ve heard most professors would agree letters are more important

[limpid zealot]

Letters are generally more important, but there's a nonzero factor that SOPs count for

[cosmic magnet]

I've officially accepted that grad apps are completely RNG