#career-advice | Python | Page 370

wicked turtle Oct 20, 2020, 10:11 AM

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I guess I could try searching for an internship durning the summer somewhere

vast ravine Oct 20, 2020, 12:13 PM

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hey guys i have 1550 SAT score which college is best for computer science?

opal perch Oct 20, 2020, 1:04 PM

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probably caltech, mit, harvard, oxford if you want to go across the pond, eth if you want to go fruther

true harness Oct 20, 2020, 1:09 PM

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cmu

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do note that a good sat score is the minimum for those schools. you need much more than that to get in

gilded valley Oct 20, 2020, 1:13 PM

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cmu
Cmu?

true harness Oct 20, 2020, 1:14 PM

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carnegie watermelon

shadow moss Oct 20, 2020, 1:27 PM

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There are companies that separate front end and backend developers

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Mine does completely but full stack unfortunately is much more popular

fossil sun Oct 20, 2020, 1:44 PM

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Anyone have knowledge about how much python I should know to be proficient for an entry level data analytics job/internship?

marsh geyser Oct 20, 2020, 2:03 PM

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i love to work

keen lichen Oct 20, 2020, 2:32 PM

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How good at webdev do you have to be to make money as a freelancer?

distant crow Oct 20, 2020, 2:40 PM

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often dependant on size of company. My preference, having started my career as a full-stack, is to not hire people in a full-stack capacity, usually when you need more than 4 engineers working on a thing, it makes sense to specialize. Or tech team is about 20 people today. I can't imagine a scenario where hiring 20 full-stack engineers is beneficial

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we have a split between frontend, backend, infrastructure/devops, and data science

vast shoal Oct 20, 2020, 4:50 PM

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@sacred fable We don't allow job solicitation on this server, unfortunately.

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We link some suggestions for Python job boards in the topic of this channel, but we're not a job board ourselves.

vast shoal Oct 20, 2020, 5:09 PM

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@vapid jay Do you have a careers-related question or are you just spamming nonsense?

proud shore Oct 20, 2020, 7:17 PM

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How Much Does A Python Devs Make ( On Average )

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@vast shoal Sorry If I Ping The Wrong Person

vast shoal Oct 20, 2020, 7:26 PM

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It varies a lot by country.

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But as a single data point, I was in the top 5% salary bracket in my country while working as a senior dev with Python as my main language.

tall trellis Oct 20, 2020, 7:45 PM

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i wanna learn python

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how can i start

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and how will i land a job

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im in it for the money

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help me bois

vast shoal Oct 20, 2020, 7:47 PM

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@tall trellis A user in this community, @neon moat, wrote a Reddit post detailing his experience going from knowing next to nothing about programming to landing a job as a web dev after about a year: https://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/comments/ctkypf/im_100_self_taught_landed_my_first_job_my/ Perhaps you can use this for inspiration.

r/learnpython - I'm 100% self taught, landed my first job! My exper...

2,029 votes and 315 comments so far on Reddit

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Whether the same is feasible for you may depend on where you live, though.

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!resources For general resources on learning Python, check this page out:

inner wrenBOT Oct 20, 2020, 7:48 PM

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Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

viral oriole Oct 20, 2020, 7:58 PM

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i want to learn machine learning but sources are too complicated for me,is there a course or book that explains without the need for constant googling?

sage fiber Oct 20, 2020, 8:18 PM

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Anyone have good insight on the market for more advanced Python/ML skills in the upper levels of the finance industry? I know about all the entry level quant positions at banks and HFs but I’m talking about more hands-on “quantamental” stuff for someone that has a more established track record in the investment field and wants to dig deeper into uses of AI for trading and/or data collection

thick shale Oct 20, 2020, 8:55 PM

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@tall trellis A user in this community, @neon moat, wrote a Reddit post detailing his experience going from knowing next to nothing about programming to landing a job as a web dev after about a year: https://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/comments/ctkypf/im_100_self_taught_landed_my_first_job_my/ Perhaps you can use this for inspiration.
@vast shoal this is a great thread and reminds me of my own path and also the people I'm helping in real life as well. One of my friend just started her job officially as a python developer this week as well.

r/learnpython - I'm 100% self taught, landed my first job! My exper...

2,033 votes and 315 comments so far on Reddit

proud shore Oct 21, 2020, 12:25 AM

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Im starting on scratch just to understand the basics

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Is that good or should I just start to go to Python?

cyan ember Oct 21, 2020, 12:36 AM

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@proud shore I've never used Scratch, but you can learn basic programming concepts that don't change much in just about any language. Any language that holds your interest long enough to learn those basics is a good starter language. I, personally, had false starts trying to learn programming in C++ and Java, and it wasn't until I tried Python that I really started to enjoy coding, but your mileage may vary.

proud shore Oct 21, 2020, 12:39 AM

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Ok thank You

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rn I cant get Python bc Im on chromebook

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but Im getting a windows soon

sage ginkgo Oct 21, 2020, 1:57 AM

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omg, thx for the reddit post, got me so motivated again :>

steel cedar Oct 21, 2020, 4:52 AM

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What are the possibilities of a software engineering job with a physics or engineering degree? I would still try to take some cs classes when possible and gain experience outside of school but I'm having trouble deciding and I feel like this would be a semi-flexible option

little harness Oct 21, 2020, 6:13 AM

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I know people who have a psychology degree and still work as developers, it's not the degree it's what you know.

teal birch Oct 21, 2020, 7:23 AM

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yo

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any girls??

teal quartz Oct 21, 2020, 7:39 AM

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@steel cedar I think that's a solid choice.

dry sapphire Oct 21, 2020, 8:53 AM

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What are the possibilities of a software engineering job with a physics or engineering degree? I would still try to take some cs classes when possible and gain experience outside of school but I'm having trouble deciding and I feel like this would be a semi-flexible option
@steel cedar I think that's one of the most common non-CS degrees for software devs, actually

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I myself have a law degree shrug and I have a friend who has an English degree

deep flicker Oct 21, 2020, 9:20 AM

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I have a linguistics and data science degree, although I'm still doing more support than dev.

distant crow Oct 21, 2020, 12:32 PM

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I have an engineering degree, and am now in software

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I don't see an issue with it

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you do need to focus on covering some of the fundamentals and theory that you miss out on. but it's not urgent. you can get by without it, but you should revisit those later on because they do help

dry kraken Oct 21, 2020, 12:42 PM

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Whether the same is feasible for you may depend on where you live, though.
Where I live, most software jobs are in enterprise and those are in capital cities. What other options would be viable here?

marsh wind Oct 21, 2020, 2:12 PM

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for sure bundo. I have phd in physics and I am in Data science/software

proud shore Oct 21, 2020, 4:01 PM

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What major is good for python

gilded valley Oct 21, 2020, 4:06 PM

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zoology

white karma Oct 21, 2020, 4:13 PM

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-Rimshot-

vapid jay Oct 21, 2020, 6:43 PM

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Hey guys

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I'm having some doubts as to which study to choose

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Rn I'm doing computer science, but next year i want to do math

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But I'm kind of starting to doubt my intelligence

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For example, there's an explanation of how RSA works in our book

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I understand what the process is, but I don't get 'why' it works

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 6:46 PM

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@vapid jay I have a masters in CS, and I suffered a lot from impostor syndrome as I was studying. It's normal and happens to a lot of people.

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It's also normal not to fully grasp the concept behind an algorithm or formula immediately.

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And, it becomes easier to grasp things quicker the more experienced you are, independent of your innate intelligence.

vapid jay Oct 21, 2020, 6:48 PM

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I don't know if its warranted though

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That i think that way

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Grasping concepts in general is hard for me

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And i don't have contact with my fellow students due to covid

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 6:49 PM

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Well, how long have you been studying?

vapid jay Oct 21, 2020, 6:49 PM

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Since September

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 6:49 PM

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That's almost no time at all.

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You shouldn't expect to grasp things easily at this point.

vapid jay Oct 21, 2020, 6:50 PM

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Yeah, and i had a 2 year break off school before that

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So if my brain is kinda rusty lol

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 6:51 PM

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I would be surprised if you grokked RSA right off the bat in that case.

vapid jay Oct 21, 2020, 6:52 PM

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I want to do astronomy

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I'm just afraid that i set the bar too high

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 6:56 PM

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I think it's way too early to gauge that if you started just last month.

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A lot students lack good study technique when they begin.

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Try working on that rather than worrying about if you're smart enough.

torpid orbit Oct 21, 2020, 7:10 PM

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Hello all! Im new here and I have a career path question

silent whale Oct 21, 2020, 7:10 PM

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haha

torpid orbit Oct 21, 2020, 7:11 PM

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I just began programming and I want to aim towards a particular goal of someday working in the AI field

silent whale Oct 21, 2020, 7:11 PM

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you can do it

torpid orbit Oct 21, 2020, 7:11 PM

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alrighty then

silent whale Oct 21, 2020, 7:11 PM

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believe in urself and meet good people

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don't trap yourself in a loop

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 7:12 PM

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@torpid orbit Welcome to the server. What's your question?

torpid orbit Oct 21, 2020, 7:14 PM

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I just finished a python course, Im currently taking a linear algebra course and Im really just looking to spend my time and effort wisely to get the right foundation

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So I guess Im asking, what should my foundation be in?

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 7:15 PM

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Assuming you're looking to go in the machine learning/data science direction (as opposed to classical AI), you might want to ask in #data-science-and-ml for tips on foundational skills.

torpid orbit Oct 21, 2020, 7:15 PM

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Thats a good idea.. Ill check over there

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Thanks 😄

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 7:16 PM

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You're welcome

harsh patio Oct 21, 2020, 7:48 PM

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I don’t understand why my coworkers have to have an official meeting about -everything-

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I sent my boss some info on a bug I found. An example with it and just explained it briefly. She wants to have a meeting to discuss it

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It’s this way for like....everything. I normally don’t mind meetings but I feel like she wastes so much of my time by living the meme that “this meeting could of been an email”

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Both her and my other coworker are like that

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 7:51 PM

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Meetings about a bug could make sense if you think you have a systematic problem that caused to bug to exist, and you want to identify the root cause and prevent future bugs of a similar nature. But if it really is just a one-off issue, it seems like a waste of time.

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And if there are lots of these kinds of meetings, the latter seems more likely.

harsh patio Oct 21, 2020, 7:52 PM

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Yeah it’s a lot of meetings for one offs. She responded to the info I sent saying she was out for lunch, which is fine, but then said we would have a meeting

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So she didn’t even look at the example I sent because she needs to be on her laptop to see it

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 7:53 PM

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What do you talk about during these meetings?

harsh patio Oct 21, 2020, 7:53 PM

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She just talks to me about what she wants and typically has me physically walk through code with her. Which she can do on her own

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Her and my coworker will do that

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As if neither of them can read code. That part makes 0 sense to me

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 7:54 PM

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Your boss is a developer as well?

harsh patio Oct 21, 2020, 7:54 PM

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They’re both data scientists but we work in Python so they can read it

silent whale Oct 21, 2020, 7:54 PM

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are most members in the server actual programmers in the work field?

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sorry my english isn't very good sorry if i mistakenly said something wrong

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 7:55 PM

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Well, I don't know what kind of work culture you're in, but I would just discuss this with your boss openly.

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@silent whale I don't know what the exact statistics are, but there a lot of professionals and a lot of amateurs as well.

true harness Oct 21, 2020, 7:56 PM

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i think most people are in the process of learning python, but that's just what i feel, i don't have any actual data

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 7:56 PM

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Probably more amateurs than professionals, yeah.

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@harsh patio It's possible that they are insecure about their ability to understand the code on their own, I guess.

harsh patio Oct 21, 2020, 8:00 PM

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It’s weird. But meetings with this company trigger the fuck out of me

tardy coyote Oct 21, 2020, 8:13 PM

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Hey guys I want some tips on what to do to jump into my career.

My experience revolves mainly around ML but I have had backend experience. I'm looking to head into MLE, but all I have is a portfolio.

I've been applying to FTE and internships but I haven't gotten anything back. Any suggestions?

harsh patio Oct 21, 2020, 9:11 PM

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Perfect example to my previous conversation

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Sent my boss some code with some data heat maps she asked for

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So she wants to discuss the heatmaps. I truly don’t see what we gain from this.

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Like I’m basically gonna be explaining how I followed exactly what she wanted and finished it....what the hell do we need a meeting for?

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 9:15 PM

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Fewer meetings in order to improve productivity seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to ask for.

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It's something that's been brought up on multiple occasions at the places I've worked.

harsh patio Oct 21, 2020, 9:16 PM

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I don’t have many meetings BUT I feel like these aren’t meaningful. My last job had few meetings but they were often meaningful. It’s the opposite at this job

vast shoal Oct 21, 2020, 9:18 PM

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Stopping work in order to have a meeting carries a significant cost, since you need to break out of the context you were in.

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You can't necessarily immediately go back to doing exactly what you were doing before with no delay.

harsh patio Oct 21, 2020, 9:29 PM

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Yeah so she wants me to spend 30 minutes working on programming something in this meeting

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I hate her as a boss. I really do

harsh patio Oct 21, 2020, 9:59 PM

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She sent me a PowerPoint slide to look over literally one minute before the meeting she’s presenting it. Not kidding. And she went out of her way to do it for a member on our team.

vapid jay Oct 21, 2020, 11:31 PM

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What’s the job security look like for Python, HTML, and CSS experience? Just curious 🤔

silent whale Oct 22, 2020, 12:31 AM

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im curious as well..

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 1:01 AM

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pretty good

proud shore Oct 22, 2020, 1:23 AM

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any tips on how to learn python

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and can U get python on chromebook

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im moving to windows soon

stray plaza Oct 22, 2020, 2:39 AM

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10/10 wouldn't hire if that's what you're coming to me with, @vapid jay

mortal hazel Oct 22, 2020, 2:42 AM

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It totally depends on your sector, seniority level, location and more

vapid jay Oct 22, 2020, 2:48 AM

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Yeah maybe, but just curious to know. @stray plaza

mortal hazel Oct 22, 2020, 2:50 AM

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Job security for what sort of gig is the point though.

vapid jay Oct 22, 2020, 2:50 AM

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Just the future of a type of line of work

mortal hazel Oct 22, 2020, 2:50 AM

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What line of work though!

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Like I mostly write python code for my job and it's pretty secure, but I'm not in some ultra-high-paid role and I'm sector specific

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And my background is basically just Python, with a smattering of R and web stuff

vapid jay Oct 22, 2020, 2:53 AM

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Great to hear! That pretty much answers my question.

vapid jay Oct 22, 2020, 3:29 AM

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Do programmers earn good money?

hollow geyser Oct 22, 2020, 3:42 AM

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Do programmers earn good money?
@vapid jay They do! the position can vary but generally programmers get paid pretty depending on where you live as well.

📎 unknown.png

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These numbers would be alot higher if you lived in NY, CA, WA.

vapid jay Oct 22, 2020, 3:45 AM

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Thanks Jordan

stray plaza Oct 22, 2020, 3:57 AM

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These numbers are about 1/2 what an engineer with 3-5 years of experience makes working at a large tech company.

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The companies listed in that screenshot are not A-list

mortal hazel Oct 22, 2020, 5:18 AM

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Market leading and big-profit companies in higher pay shocker 😐
The fact is there is a huge number of people working "in software" and only a tiny slice of that are working at those A-list firms

nimble plover Oct 22, 2020, 6:27 AM

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Do you guys think quantum computing will be in high demand in the future?

elfin abyss Oct 22, 2020, 6:42 AM

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Can't say I know much about quantum computing but I would assume if it becomes affordable yeah

normal forge Oct 22, 2020, 8:48 AM

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from what I've heard/read, the success of qc depends on if they can 1) scale down the computers and 2) increase the amount of qbits. It seems to be working so far, but there's always a chance there'll be some sort of physical limitation. On top of that, qc's won't replace classical computers (I've got a theory that if it is possible, they'll be introduced as a drive rather than a system (qpu)) and qubits aren't renewable so there's going to have to be quantum networks put in place like the one in melbourne(?)

unborn ivy Oct 22, 2020, 9:02 AM

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In my opinion, quantum computers will become "common" as supercomputers, tackling specific problems, where they significantly outclass conventional computing. They will be an addition, not a replacement for classical computing. I see them playing a major role in science and engineering

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optimization problems are a major area, where they will shine I think

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but yeah, qbit amount and price / scalability will have to improve, but I think we willl get there

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Unrelated:
Does anyone know of decent ways to work part time? I'm starting my PhD soon at UBC in Canada in applied robotics, sim2real and machine / reinforcement learning. I originally studied Aerospace Engineering in Germany, but transitioned to the aforementioned topics in my master's thesis. I'm looking for ways to finance my studies. I'm experienced in Python, ROS and rigid body simulators like Gazebo, Webots and Pybullet, as well as integrating RL. Any pointers or suggestions would be welcome!

wispy cape Oct 22, 2020, 9:15 AM

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If you haven't already I suggest you try to get a TA position to partially finance your studies

fervent moth Oct 22, 2020, 9:15 AM

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thnx

unborn ivy Oct 22, 2020, 9:22 AM

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I will do TAs, but I would love to work on projects as well. Not just for the financial aspect, but also the broadening of my horizon and learning. Perhaps in a sort of freelance / advisory role. While I would not consider myself a true expert in any specific field, I have a quite deep understanding in a wide array of topics and am very good in bridging different disciplines. For example: Material science, mechanical engineering, thermodynamics, turbomachinery, propulsion (aircraft, rocket, alternative space propulsion), electrical engineering, computer science, AI / machine learning / reinforcement learning, simulation (rigid body, cfd, fem) and even fields such as biology, chemistry and medicine.

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In the past 6 month I did a lot of open source work for free, which I loved. I learned a lot. However, with the start of my PhD, finances will become a factor.

wispy cape Oct 22, 2020, 9:24 AM

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I am not a PhD student myself, but I work with some of them (and actual PhDs), plus I have a few friends doing one at the moment, and the general take away I got is that it's really hard to get the time to do anything serious other than working on your thesis and the other stuff your lab is asking you

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Especially a job

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Maybe less in the first year or so i guess

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How long is a PhD in Canada ? 3 years ?

unborn ivy Oct 22, 2020, 9:25 AM

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that's why I dont want a full time job. Rather something project based. I'm used to work 80h weeks. So I was thinking of perhaps allocating about 10h per week on additional income

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3-4 years is the goal

wispy cape Oct 22, 2020, 9:26 AM

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Also related, but does the lab you're a part of not pay you ?

unborn ivy Oct 22, 2020, 9:26 AM

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it does, but very very little.

wispy cape Oct 22, 2020, 9:26 AM

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Or maybe not enough to cover all of it

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Yeah I see

unborn ivy Oct 22, 2020, 9:28 AM

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it covers rent, but not much more. I would like to bolster my finances, while still having a student's lifestyle, to be more financially sounds, when looking into buying a house etc.

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plus it is very possible to start having kids in the next 2 years or so. For that, I will have to earn more

wispy cape Oct 22, 2020, 9:29 AM

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My guess is that you'll have to grind sending CVs until you get a software company to hire you part-time, if you want to do more projects on the side
Kinda obvious I guess, but I don't think it goes deeper than that

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Open Source is a dead-end if you have financial needs

unborn ivy Oct 22, 2020, 9:31 AM

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yeah... That's why I thought I'd ask here. Perhaps someone knows something. I still love open source though. It pays you in knowledge and connections. I already got offered a job in Switzerland because of it. Anyways, thx for the reply 🙂

normal forge Oct 22, 2020, 9:51 AM

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I see them playing a major role in science and engineering
qml's gonna be a hype field
ubc gang tho

willow thorn Oct 22, 2020, 11:06 AM

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guys i want to be a robotics engineer is that a thing?

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cuz i think it is

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 12:05 PM

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yes

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if you want to do that and python, learn ROSpy

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plus wahtever other ML stuff takes your fancy. there's a lot of ML in robotics

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worth learning a bit of embedded C/C++ as well. while you can do a lot at the high-level with ROSpy, every now and again you have to deal with low-level stuff, and custom electronics. you may be prototyping a few things on Arduino or other microcontrollers, where you'll need a decent handle of C to get stuff done quickly

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also pick up some devops stuff - particularly docker. it may sound weird, but most of our high-level robotics stuff are distributed and networked, so we tend to deploy this using docker

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robotics and microservices go hand-in-hand; you very often write a service that provide access to some actuator, or a publisher that publishes sensor data that others subscribe to

unborn ivy Oct 22, 2020, 12:34 PM

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@distant crow Just out of curiosity, who do you work for?

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 12:37 PM

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I used to work for a robotics company

proud shore Oct 22, 2020, 4:37 PM

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What does a basic python dev make?

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 4:39 PM

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basic python scripts

proud shore Oct 22, 2020, 4:39 PM

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yes

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 4:39 PM

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you're welcome

proud shore Oct 22, 2020, 4:40 PM

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you didnt answer my question?

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 4:40 PM

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basic python devs make basic python scripts

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but also, this site is helpful: https://www.levels.fyi/

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as well as pretty much any jobs site where you can search by salary; including Glassdoor, etc.
make sure to select your location

proud shore Oct 22, 2020, 4:41 PM

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ok thank you

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 4:41 PM

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googling for "average junior python developer salary in <location>" also returns results

shadow moss Oct 22, 2020, 5:40 PM

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Also, few companies developers are exclusively Python, most developers are <something else>+Python

wispy cape Oct 22, 2020, 5:49 PM

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there's this misconception that one gets hired for knowing how to use a language, that's not the case

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you don't call a lumberjack an "axe wielder"

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tho that'd be metal af

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languages are just tools, they come and go

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 6:11 PM

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I'd love to put "good with axe" in the skills section of my resume

merry wyvern Oct 22, 2020, 6:23 PM

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treading on 'i studied the blade' territory lol

shadow moss Oct 22, 2020, 7:02 PM

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Igneous, most companies will prefer to hire someone who knows a language vs who doesn’t

normal forge Oct 22, 2020, 7:33 PM

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I was actually just looking at a couple job boards - unless the company mainly uses a specific language, they mostly just have 'suggested' ones

merry wyvern Oct 22, 2020, 8:07 PM

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yeah it depends on what sort of career trajectory you want to do, usually python on its own isn't that useful, the question is what sorts of domains have you used python as a tool to do things in - like webdev vs systems admin/engineering vs data analysis, etc

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and you're looking for job titles that look more like those domains, like systems engineer + -python, or webdev + python, etc

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assuming what you're trying to do is find a company that heavily uses python so you can continue to develop your skills in the language?

outer junco Oct 22, 2020, 9:02 PM

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Anybody know a good way to do freelancing with python programming and data science?

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I tried fiverr but i havent gotten many orders, only 2 since i listed my gig like 3 months ago

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:11 PM

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sup folks

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this has been a rough week for me

crimson crescent Oct 22, 2020, 9:12 PM

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you can do it machado! its almost friday, be strong =]

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:14 PM

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to keep the story short, soon I'll be joining a team with two other people where one of them is clearly a deadweight (and I have plenty of reasons to believe is a cunning manipulator). I won't be staying at this job for long but until then I'll be in a team where it's expected for me to put some order and to deliver things that a team of 3 should deliver but effectively only 2 will be actually productive. This deadweight is currently being strongly protected by the manager and is not easy to fire him/her, so talking with managers is not an alternative here.

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I've been really thinking on how to deal with this, either from creating intern level work for the deadweight (who by the way, is in a higher paygrade and title to boot), to simply allow the next release to be lackluster by not picking up any incoming slack, and others.

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this is a really f*d up situation...

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having that said, has anyone been through something similar before by dealing with an untouchable lazy incompetent coworker?

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:30 PM

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I would probably go with the option of not picking up the slack in your shoes. I would feel less bitter about it later.

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And just try to make the best out of doing my part.

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:31 PM

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yeah, but I'm afraid if then accusations would go fly towards me of not being a "team player"

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(something similar has happened before on this job, by a previous manager I had)

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really need to CYA here.

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but yeah, I'll just have to try to lay low and endure this...

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:32 PM

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I don't really have relevant experience of situations like these, unfortunately.

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:33 PM

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fortunately you mean : D

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:33 PM

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Well, I do want to help. But yes.

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I suppose you should try to protect yourself as much as possible while doing as little extra work as possible.

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And really excel at the work that's part of your ordinary duties.

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:34 PM

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if I only stuck with my ordinary and expected duties, I would be doing about half my job

#

no joke.

#

but I do see your point, those are good principles to follow

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

Maybe you've painted yourself into a corner by making them expect you to go above and beyond.

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

Well if they want to fire you you're gonna get fired

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

It's important to value yourself and your time.

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:35 PM

#

at this point, it's much easier for me to be fired compared to the other coworker.

#

that much is true.

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 9:36 PM

#

You can say something like "I've taken on a lot of responsibilities over ${APPROPRIATE_TIME_UNIT} and need to pare some of those back so that I can focus on my originally scoped work"

#

Don't make it a question, make it a statement

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:37 PM

#

that will simply make it more likely that I'll be out of a job in about 5 months.

#

or more likely

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:37 PM

#

Are there no other job opportunities for you if you looked?

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:38 PM

#

I'm working on that as we speak

#

I'll be fighting tooth and nail in the following months to find something elese

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:38 PM

#

It's always good to have stuff lined up even if you don't plan on leaving, makes it easier to demand to be treated decently.

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:39 PM

#

indeed

#

so to recap, lay low and don't pick up the slack while covering my ass.

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:41 PM

#

Sounds like the best strategy if you have no way of solving the root problem.

#

Don't make anyone else look bad, but don't go out of your way to help them if they don't deserve it.

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:45 PM

#

that's what I had in mind as well. Thanks for your thoughts!

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 9:45 PM

#

Hey guys I've been obsessed with python for a while now, and I am currently a college student. The problem is, I feel like I can learn programming way more efficiently by myself rather than in a classroom lecture, so my question is, how necessary is a college degree to become a software engineer?

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

@thin elk I would say that getting a degree is probably the easiest route, but it's definitely possible to get a job without one. It's not one of those industries where a degree is mandatory.

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

Well if it saves me thousands of dollars of debt, I'll take it

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

You will need to appear to be on a similar level as if you had gone through a college program though, which is non-trivial.

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

only thousands of dollars is nothing

#

but with 10's of thousands... yeah

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Oh, right, some countries will rob you blind to go to college. I always forget.

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Yes I'm American

#

It's a downright scam here

#

And no one cares about how well you understand something, they only care about the grade

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 9:51 PM

#

I have no degree and do well in interviews, the issue is no one wants to get to the interview step. Part of that may be area -- I'm in the midwest, and IT stuff is typically big business Windows fix the WiFi type, not programming. But there are some businesses and they have no interest in interviewing me.

#

Odd, because there are constantly those newspaper articles about the tech labor shortages.

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 9:52 PM

#

@deep mauve what are the interviews like?

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:53 PM

#

Getting your foot in the door is the hardest part when you have no degree.

#

Once you've worked a couple of jobs, I don't think it will make much of a difference whether you have a degree or not on your resume.

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 9:54 PM

#

@vast shoal what do you recommend I do to prove my worth?

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:54 PM

#

I'm not the best person to speak about this, since I did go to college, but I would imagine that a well-rounded Github portfolio would help.

#

I also encourage you to get involved in OSS contributions.

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

@thin elk Maybe a quick coding challenge, or just an interview to ask about past projects you've done for an employer, potential challenges you've had and how you solved them.

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

Whether it's a good credential or not, it will definitely give you a lot of valuable experience working on code collaboratively.

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 9:56 PM

#

If you can go to college even if you think it is stupid you should. I was not able to go unfortunately, and once you are past ~20 or so everyone stops caring about you and it gets a lot harder to return (no I'm not bitter).

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 9:56 PM

#

Developing an app or a library that other people like and use is probably a really good credential, especially if it's in a similar domain to your prospective employer.

#

Getting involved with and participating in online communities like this one is probably not a bad idea. You can learn a lot and get to know a lot of professionals.

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 10:00 PM

#

If I decide to go the self-taught route, what are some good ways I can network?

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 10:00 PM

#

Something also to consider, is at least for your undergraduate degree, you should probably focus on just passing your classes and getting the degree instead of challenging yourself academically. If you do decide to challenge yourself and get slightly lower grades because of it typically you will be at a disadvantage when applying for scholarships.

If you work on expanding your knowledge base in addition to just passing your classes, you should be better off than otherwise.

vast shoal Oct 22, 2020, 10:00 PM

#

Aside from the above, I don't really have any other ideas.

#

I'm not in the US either, so my personal experience is probably not overly applicable to you.

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 10:01 PM

#

You can put a profile up on ycombinator and similar sites, though more and more expect you to have a degree of some kind.

There are likely local startup accelerators as well. There tends to be more webdev work compared to anything, so your first jobs may have to be setting up a website for someone.

#

Most software engineering work is actually for internal applications that fulfill some highly specific business need. Knowing that, you can try to find companies with some unfulfilled requirement but this is easiest to do if you do general IT work and try to pivot into consulting for small projects.

#

I got kind of lucky, I showed up to some company and fixed the firmware for some old stock they received in lieu of payment for a debt. If that hadn't happened I'd probably still be jobless.

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 10:05 PM

#

@vast shoal I have learned that colleges, in the US at least, are not fouded on discovery or learning. This is the main reason I'm thinking about stopping. I am still rather young, I graduated high school at an early age, so I still have plenty of time to make mistakes. If it's even possible to do this without a degree, I'm all in

#

@deep mauve I know this might be a little personal, but I'm curious. Would you consider yourself successful?

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

@thin elk I don't mind answering, and no, at least not professionally. Personally I'm confident in my skills and am aware I am more competent than many programmers, but no one really cares if you don't have a degree.
I enjoy my job but it is not enough to support saving for retirement or a family and is not in a great location. Despite years of looking I have not been able to get another one.

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:16 PM

#

it's definitely possible to succeed in software development without a degree

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 10:16 PM

#

My father did not go to school either, but did eventually end up making as much as a full engineer doing engineering things. The younger engineers would sometimes notice this and get disappointed before he would point out they got hired at his salary, it took him 20 years of raises.

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:17 PM

#

and the 3 or 4 years extra experience you get working rather than studying is very valuable too. so it's certainly an option. but on the other side, college is an experience, you network, and it opens some doors

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

I really hate when that kind of thing happens due to lack of degrees...

#

talking about the salary catching up thing.

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

@distant crow do you have a degree?

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

yes

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 10:19 PM

#

@distant crow do you know anyone who has succeeded without one?

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 10:19 PM

#

what do you mean with success?

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:19 PM

#

yes, and I've hired such people too

#

I literally do not look at degrees when hiring for software dev positions

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 10:20 PM

#

That's good to know

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:20 PM

#

(but others who hire may have different opinions. I can't speak for them)

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 10:20 PM

#

True

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 10:20 PM

#

I think it really depends on the nature of the work

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:20 PM

#

yes, it's why I specified "software dev" above

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

I'm thinking about other positions in the software industry

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

The bigger issue tends to be HR may screen applicants before a hiring manager sees them, and may throw out everyone without degrees, or something similar

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

and even for some specific types of software dev... a college degree is really a must.

#

I thinking about hardcore computer graphics stuff or computational engineering kind of stuff.

#

or embedded dev as well

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 10:22 PM

#

Probably doesn't need a degree but it's more likely you would benefit from having one.

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:22 PM

#

i like to encourage people who are on the fence about going to college to go to college. but this is assuming they have the means to do so, I know in the US it's a big investment

#

college is more than a credential

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 10:23 PM

#

just putting this out there in order not to feed the naive illusion that a college degree is not necessary for any kind of software dev related gig

#

having that said, for regular web development type of gigs

#

yeah, degree's not that important.

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:23 PM

#

yeah for sure. I was being careful with language. I will require a degree and maybe even a PhD for senior engineers in AI positions for example

thin elk Oct 22, 2020, 10:23 PM

#

I see

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:25 PM

#

but outside that kind of specialization, if I had to pick between someone who didn't go to college but had 6 years of work experience, versus someone who went to college for 4 years and has 2 years of work experience, I'd go for the one with the longer work experience for sure

#

(all other things being equal)

crude crown Oct 22, 2020, 10:26 PM

#

yeah, same here.

distant crow Oct 22, 2020, 10:26 PM

#

so ... it's complex and there's no clear answers.but based on my own experience of college, you can get a lot more out of it than just a credential

#

you gain a network, friends, you develop a variety of skills including how to research and learn. there are unique job opportunities in the form of student internships and graduate placement programs

#

if you have to decide whether to go to college. definitely try to think about those things too, and not just whether you will have a degree by the end of it

#

I can't recommend either way. Financial situations are different. personalities are different, some people thrive in a college environment, others hate it. unfortunately there are no easy answers here. it's a very personal decision

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

Well, as far as stats go people without degrees earn less by about $1M over lifetime.

#

And socially in most places in the US, if you don't have a degree, the generally more affluent and important people who do have degrees will see you as less than them.

hexed moon Oct 22, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

Alas most with over a million in America are living pay check to paycheck

#

So sure let em look down while they gripe about paying the slaves with tips when they have a huge issue of food scarcity and poverty that makes most countries look pleasant lol

deep mauve Oct 22, 2020, 10:55 PM

#

That smug feeling of being just as good as someone with a degree isn't gonna pay your bills

hexed moon Oct 22, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

Eh does for me

#

Pays my bills, invests into my future and keeps my savings account topped up

molten spoke Oct 22, 2020, 11:33 PM

#

!unshh

inner wrenBOT Oct 22, 2020, 11:33 PM

#

✅ unsilenced current channel.

true harness Oct 22, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

"first"

jolly furnace Oct 23, 2020, 1:43 AM

#

when u finally get an interview after 80 apps

#

feels somewhat nice but also frusterating

white karma Oct 23, 2020, 1:53 AM

#

remember

#

the ones that say "no" don't matter

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 2:19 AM

#

degrees in cs aren't required to get by, but it's 500x easier with one, at least in the US

#

well, it doesn't have to be cs, but just anything mathy/sciencey

hot fulcrum Oct 23, 2020, 4:31 AM

#

Hey y’all what’s your opinion on Google’s IT and python certificate for someone who a beginner and doesn’t have a college degree and isn’t going to go to college?

marsh wind Oct 23, 2020, 6:33 AM

#

It's kinda common opinion here that most programming certification alone is quasi worthless @hot fulcrum

#

You won't be hired thanks to that or won't even get an interview likely

#

It can look nice in good resume with projects, relevant skills and etc tho

prime prawn Oct 23, 2020, 6:44 AM

#

unless you applying to big companies, then college degree doesn't matter. Most companies only care about your experience and skills

jolly furnace Oct 23, 2020, 6:45 AM

#

unfortunate thing is that some companies say that u must have a degree

marsh wind Oct 23, 2020, 7:18 AM

#

unless you applying to big companies, then college degree doesn't matter. Most companies only care about your experience and skills
@prime prawn I would not be so sure - in big companies you can not get past the CV screening without degree

prime prawn Oct 23, 2020, 7:19 AM

#

@marsh wind yes that what i mean, big company required degree, i think you misread it

marsh wind Oct 23, 2020, 7:20 AM

#

yeah I kinda read most big companies only care about...

#

but the big was only in unless 🙂

jaunty mist Oct 23, 2020, 9:04 AM

#

Does Harvard cs50 worth the time??

prime prawn Oct 23, 2020, 9:34 AM

#

kinda wrong channel to ask that but the course is free and it's for beginner to CS, also it's from harvard so it's good

vast shoal Oct 23, 2020, 11:33 AM

#

@jaunty mist Yes, it's very good if you're new to programming or if you lack strong foundational knowledge.

#

I think a degree matters quite a lot even for smaller companies. It's a strong credential. If you don't have one, you need to make up for it in other ways, and that's not trivial.

jaunty mist Oct 23, 2020, 11:44 AM

#

Ok ty

vapid jay Oct 23, 2020, 12:49 PM

#

I think a degree matters quite a lot even for smaller companies. It's a strong credential. If you don't have one, you need to make up for it in other ways, and that's not trivial.
@vast shoal sorry to ping you, but does the college the degree come from matter incredibly?

vapid jay Oct 23, 2020, 1:06 PM

#

Hi, I am a beginner and I would like to know what is important to be able to hire you as a junior developer, thanks

vast shoal Oct 23, 2020, 1:21 PM

#

@vapid jay I can't answer that definitively, but I would guess that for most companies that aren't super high-profile, it shouldn't matter that much as long as it's not like some shady internet school.

#

Especially if you are able to test and interview well as well.

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 1:43 PM

#

@prime prawn it really depends, things like govt contracting are very sensitive to your level of formal education regardless of firm size

white karma Oct 23, 2020, 3:17 PM

#

@vast shoal You mention needing to make up for a lack of a degree, can that be made up by doing a lot of projects?

deep mauve Oct 23, 2020, 4:04 PM

#

Maybe, it depends. You also need to be selecting topics that are easy to present on your e.g. GitHub page in 30 seconds or less.

#

And I can confirm your school doesn't matter unless it is one of those for-profit or quasi-for-profit schools that has a shaky accreditation. It may matter if you're going against someone who went to a very prestigious school, but eh.

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 4:09 PM

#

you're better off making multiple small-to-medium projects in a variety of languages/frameworks so you can show that you can learn multiple things on your own... whether or not an employer bites is largely a function of who else is applying for the job... they don't just ask whether YOU could do the job, but they want to know if you'd be more effective than the other applicants

neon moat Oct 23, 2020, 6:03 PM

#

I don't have a degree and I managed to get employed as a python developer, however it is extremely hard.

If you have the opportunity to do a degree and can afford to spend the 3-4years doing a degree then go for it, but dont fall into the trap of thinking you can walk into a job. There is a lot of competition out there and while you will be learning theory your competition will be building apps and learning frameworks that are in demand.

#

I have heard stories of people with degrees but cant write a line of code

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

I mean those people generally get pushed out of their jobs very quickly - a lot of the comments I see on boards are interns, which is a completely different dynamic than for FTEs. you can be pretty useless and get an internship, you just generally aren't going to get a return offer.

neon moat Oct 23, 2020, 6:20 PM

#

i dont understand what you're saying

proud shore Oct 23, 2020, 6:23 PM

#

You should get a Degree it's good you get the college experince

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

the people who get programming jobs but can't actually program generally get fired pretty quickly. but i hear a lot of grousing about credentialism which often conflates internships and jobs.

ebon badge Oct 23, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

https://www.credit-suisse.com/pwp/hr/en/codingchallenge/#/howtoplay/?promocode=ayushpattnaik

Global Coding Challenge

The Global Coding Challenge is a inter-university online coding competition between students across the globe.

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

at least that's what i've experienced over the decade-ish of doing various software/systems stuff

ebon badge Oct 23, 2020, 6:44 PM

#

https://tinyurl.com/yyc93obc

Showcase your tech skills and win cash prizes worth INR 15 lacs

Here’s a chance to showcase your coding and technical skills and walk away with cash prizes worth INR 15 lacs* and a chance to work with Capgemini India.

deep mauve Oct 23, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

@merry wyvern In a lot of markets it seems hiring is conservative enough they are not willing to hire without degree in a lot of cases. But those markets typically coincide with heavy MS presence.

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

MS as in masters of science or microsoft? but yeah, it's been harder than usual ever since the COVIDpocalypse

deep mauve Oct 23, 2020, 7:10 PM

#

MS as in M$, not education

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

in that M$ development environments are more reluctant to hire those without degrees? i wonder how much of that is a secondary effect of M$ development being somewhat more popular in government contracting, and government contracting is mega credentialist

#

but then again im from the DC area so maybe my opinion is just super warped

hoary hazel Oct 23, 2020, 7:38 PM

#

Where do you guys recommend looking for internships for a colleeg student? I've tried google and some job sites but many intern or intro positions seem to want years of prior experience

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

where do you live @hoary hazel

#

slash where is your university, also what year are you in university

hoary hazel Oct 23, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

I'm a freshmann at Bradley University in the Midwest of U.S.

#

I've looked through our schools services as well but not a ton of stuff for CS

#

My main problem is I have lots of experience but not much formal learning

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

okay, my suggestion would be to look at places like banks and city/state governments and see if you can get an internship either in development or in general IT - ideally development, but even having systems administration/debugging experience can be valuable... and is definitely more valuable than no internship

hoary hazel Oct 23, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

ok thanks

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

depending on how industrious you are, you could also try reaching out to something like a community center or homeowners association near you and see if they need a website or help with their current website

#

and then you can try branching out to other social clubs if you still don't get any bites

hoary hazel Oct 23, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

hmm ok, I haven't done much html but imagine that wouldn't be to bad to learn so far I know java, python c/c++ from arduino and some MYSQL stuff

#

ok

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

i mean

#

at the very least, if you've done any programming, you probably have the skills required to figure out a wordpress site

hoary hazel Oct 23, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

yeah

#

true

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

then there's also a suggestion that if you live near any military installations that you can try reaching out to defense contractors

#

assuming you are in peroria it would seem that there are some contractors out there - if you reach out to them they'll likely have internships either in that area or in Chicagoland that you could get some experience and maybe even a clearance through (assuming you're a US citizen, etc)

hoary hazel Oct 23, 2020, 7:48 PM

#

Ok great that's a lot of good advice and places I hadn't thought to look

#

I am more in chicago suburbs but will take a look at both areas

merry wyvern Oct 23, 2020, 7:48 PM

#

yeah man, no problem!

#

oh, yeah

#

there's shittons in chicago - if that's the case you can also reach out to the various datacenter companies and see if they have anything internshipwise

#

with the way jobs are nowadays, i'd check out the defense contractors assuming you don't have any personal reservations to it, it's one of the few remaining jobs-for-life out there

hoary hazel Oct 23, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

Yeah very true

vapid jay Oct 23, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

hi um new

shadow moss Oct 23, 2020, 8:52 PM

#

In United States, while companies do hire non degree holding programmers, most recruiters will prefer degree holding programmers esp at Entry Level. With Job Market current state, not having a degree will make it significantly more difficult

deep mauve Oct 23, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

@merry wyvern That's a good take on it, I've been trying to figure out what it is for a while now. But there's large places that don't do any gov work that are super conservative with hiring and credential requirements, then yeah I can see a lot of similar places being government-adjacent. I'm wondering though, if the non-government places inherited the credentialism from managers who did a lot of contracting.

crimson prairie Oct 23, 2020, 10:01 PM

#

would anyone know where I can post looking for a freelance python coder?

gilded valley Oct 23, 2020, 10:01 PM

#

Fiverr and Upwork are the two big ones

vapid jay Oct 23, 2020, 10:04 PM

#

Anyone live Uk?

gilded valley Oct 23, 2020, 10:05 PM

#

I think nearly 70 million people (66.65m)

vapid jay Oct 23, 2020, 10:05 PM

#

In the group chat loo

#

Lol

gilded valley Oct 23, 2020, 10:06 PM

#

probably

#

If you have a question - it's best to just ask it

#

if someone from the UK sees it, they will either answer or not as they please - but lots of people aren't going to bother responding to super broad stuff like that

outer junco Oct 23, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

what would be a good rate to put on upwork for machine learning/data science?

distant crow Oct 23, 2020, 11:28 PM

#

I live in the UK

#

would have helped if you'd already asked the question, then I can respond

#

maybe I'll spot it when I next check the chat in a week, or maybe not, oh well such is life

#

what would be a good rate to put on upwork for machine learning/data science?
Tough question, I think the only reasonable answer is... a rate that's competitive relative to others with similar credentials to yourself. Set it too high, and they're not going to pick you; set it too low, and you're losing out

#

see what other people similar to you are charging; if you don't see anyone similar to you, and you have special skills etc. level it accordignly

outer junco Oct 23, 2020, 11:33 PM

#

here's what i'll do, i'll set it on like the upper levels of what people in that area are charging, then if people don't really pick me i'll keep lowering it until i start getting consistent offers

distant crow Oct 23, 2020, 11:33 PM

#

sounds like a good plan

ivory coyote Oct 23, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

jesus the market sux right now, can't find a single part-time offer

dry sapphire Oct 23, 2020, 11:45 PM

#

here's what i'll do, i'll set it on like the upper levels of what people in that area are charging, then if people don't really pick me i'll keep lowering it until i start getting consistent offers
@outer junco when I was doing freelance ML stuff my rate was lower @ the start

#

then as I got more good feedback I began increasing it

outer junco Oct 23, 2020, 11:55 PM

#

What rate did you start out at?

dry sapphire Oct 23, 2020, 11:56 PM

#

I honestly can't remember?

#

$80/hour I think?

#

or maybe $60

#

it was a while ago

outer junco Oct 24, 2020, 12:01 AM

#

hmm okay, i'll start out at like 75 and see where it goes

#

where did you do it on?

#

as you can see i'm really new to freelancing lol

dry sapphire Oct 24, 2020, 12:03 AM

#

Codementor

outer junco Oct 24, 2020, 12:03 AM

#

oh okay i'll try that out

#

Thanks!

dry sapphire Oct 24, 2020, 12:10 AM

#

yw!

#

atb

dark zodiac Oct 24, 2020, 10:19 AM

#

yo what can i do after ds?

lusty oriole Oct 25, 2020, 2:30 AM

#

Is it generally easier

#

To learn other languages

#

After learning python?

#

Plz ping back

dire island Oct 25, 2020, 2:39 AM

#

@lusty oriole ye it is

#

Learning one object oriented language helps when u learn a new or different one

lusty oriole Oct 25, 2020, 2:40 AM

#

Hmm nice

olive axle Oct 25, 2020, 9:37 AM

#

how do you practice the application of different languages

#

Can someone tell me an efficient process that could be highly effective

silver haven Oct 25, 2020, 1:01 PM

#

hey! Im new to python but i learnd a code, i know you guys probly don't care but lets see

#

a =int(input("how much point's is class 10 got?"))
b =int(input("and how much did class 11 got?"))
if a > b:
print("class 10 won the game with", a-b, "above")
else:
print("class 11 won the game with", b-a, "above")

vapid jay Oct 25, 2020, 1:47 PM

#

anyone here?

vapid jay Oct 25, 2020, 2:55 PM

#

Has anyone had experience with tech internships out of university?

#

E.g. for faang companies

vast shoal Oct 25, 2020, 4:20 PM

#

@jaunty cradle Recruitment on this server is not allowed.

pine mist Oct 25, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

Can anyone give tips on how to prepare for a server side engineer role? I have a test in a week or two. I am good at DSA. But apart from that I am a total newbie to CS concepts. So, what are the things i can learn in this short span of time for this role?

#

Any resources would be helpful

silver haven Oct 25, 2020, 6:23 PM

#

not me lemon_sweat

thin furnace Oct 25, 2020, 8:37 PM

#

hey! Im new to python but i learnd a code, i know you guys probly don't care but lets see
@silver haven welcome to python

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we like snakes

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pun drum sound

wispy mica Oct 26, 2020, 12:54 AM

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Do you guys do resume reviews here?

dry sapphire Oct 26, 2020, 12:57 AM

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Do you guys do resume reviews here?
@wispy mica not as a matter of course, but I think I've seen people offering if you ask

spring raft Oct 26, 2020, 3:11 AM

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I want some money, I know python very well
so how can I earn from it.I just want some and also have studies, so I can't really do a complete job.

real sundial Oct 26, 2020, 5:19 AM

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I want some money, I know python very well
so how can I earn from it.I just want some and also have studies, so I can't really do a complete job.
@spring raft

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My question as well

silver wind Oct 26, 2020, 5:31 AM

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@spring raft
@real sundial Exactly same as you guys, also i am interested in machine learning and backend more then the user interface part

vapid jay Oct 26, 2020, 5:56 AM

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Hi, I know Python very well now and like intermediate knowledge of ML as well so is that enough for applying for jobs or no???Im confused and i dont want to go to other languages. Any suggestions ??

dry sapphire Oct 26, 2020, 6:04 AM

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Hi, I know Python very well now and like intermediate knowledge of ML as well so is that enough for applying for jobs or no???Im confused and i dont want to go to other languages. Any suggestions ??
@vapid jay define "very well"

real sundial Oct 26, 2020, 6:05 AM

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@vapid jay define "very well"
@dry sapphire

dry sapphire Oct 26, 2020, 6:05 AM

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hello

real sundial Oct 26, 2020, 6:05 AM

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i know databases and algos well

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i think im an intermediate when it comes to python

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but have just recently gotten into actually doing projects

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so i want to know a way or somewhat of a roadmap to actually acquire ML as a skillset

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a roadmap if you will

dry sapphire Oct 26, 2020, 6:10 AM

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i know databases and algos well
@real sundial how's your mathematics?

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discrete mathematics

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graph theory

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statistics

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linear algebra

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calculus

vapid jay Oct 26, 2020, 6:14 AM

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@dry sapphire idk like i have basic understanding of it.

dry sapphire Oct 26, 2020, 6:14 AM

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if you wanna do real ML

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you should be proficient

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in those areas

vapid jay Oct 26, 2020, 6:14 AM

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like??

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@dry sapphire

dry sapphire Oct 26, 2020, 6:16 AM

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@vapid jay I literally listed them

vocal gazelle Oct 26, 2020, 10:54 AM

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Hi all, I have just a general question about becoming a coder; is it feasible to do short duration jobs (in order of days) (e.g like a plumber) rather than standard corporate contract jobs which are in the order of months (usually 3-6 months)?

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I seek the freedom of being truly self-employed by being able to decide not to work this afternoon if I so wish because the weather is nice, etc; all I can see is corporate contact jobs which gives no such freedom

noble pelican Oct 26, 2020, 11:01 AM

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definitely, freelance/consulting is a thing - but it comes with all the gotchas : you have to build a clientele, don't get the same security, etc.

vocal gazelle Oct 26, 2020, 11:32 AM

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@noble pelican Thanks for your thoughts; finding and maintaining clientele would be something I would find difficult; its something I will think about.

edgy mesa Oct 26, 2020, 11:33 AM

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Does anyone know about any Python opening?

noble pelican Oct 26, 2020, 11:34 AM

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yeah, that's a think entirely different from programming ... if you don't have the connections/a way to male them you end up chasing poorly defined projects on freelancing websites that take massive fees and where everybody is underbidding

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@edgy mesa I do but on-prem in Norway

vast shoal Oct 26, 2020, 12:01 PM

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@vocal gazelle As a freelancer, most contracts will usually be in the order of months at least. However, that doesn't mean you necessarily have to work all day every day during that time period. The nature of software development is normally that you have some fixed meetings per week with other developers and stakeholders, and inbetween you work independently with relatively little oversight, so if you work as a contractor, there's no reason why you can't take the afternoon off and work in the evening, etc.

noble pelican Oct 26, 2020, 12:03 PM

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also worth noting that freelancing is not the only way to have a flexible schedule - some companies just work like that

vast shoal Oct 26, 2020, 12:11 PM

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Yeah, that's true, my employer generally doesn't care when and how I work, as long as I deliver the expected results and show up for meetings.

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And I'm a regular employee.

vocal gazelle Oct 26, 2020, 12:44 PM

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That is a helpful insight, thank you. Results-driven is my preferred mode of working. I was told years ago I shouldn't become a developer and now regret listening to that advice, I am now (after 10 years in IT) going to see if I can get into something that I have discovered I really enjoy doing

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*rediscovered

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Based on what you have said I feel that a contract could be do-able

noble pelican Oct 26, 2020, 12:56 PM

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if you enjoy it and already have IT experience, you'll certainly find the right position 🙂 IMO it's important to remember that contract/job interviews go both way, i.e. it's also for the candidate/contractor to decide if it's a good fit for them (in terms for example of scheduling culture) - make sure you're not rushing to get your foot in the wrong door and you won't miss out on a great fit. The whole industry is understaffed, so there's plenty of room

vocal gazelle Oct 26, 2020, 1:23 PM

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Thats encouraging, thanks. If I may, what is your favorite part of your job?

noble pelican Oct 26, 2020, 1:26 PM

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I feel i can create so much with so little (just a computer really), it feels empowering - and always fun to be given a problem to solve and crack it

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there's so many different areas with different dynamics though, that's my personal take on the niche I'm in

vast shoal Oct 26, 2020, 2:33 PM

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I like the variety of tasks, and the feeling of constant self-improvement. On a day-to-day basis I get to learn new things that often benefit me in the long-term, not just in the position and domain I'm currently working in, but for future projects in different domains as well.

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It's a very satisfying feeling.

nimble sparrow Oct 26, 2020, 2:44 PM

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Hello everyone, How you doing?

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I got a question related to interview.

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is it okay to ask here?

true harness Oct 26, 2020, 2:47 PM

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yep

nimble sparrow Oct 26, 2020, 2:54 PM

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I had an interview today. Everything was smooth till the end.
Atlast interviewer adds, "Consider, the consultant or client is not available. Can you do the work on their behave?"
Like, My name is Mr X. You will be given all creditionals, github and other resources which is under Mr X name.
I am not working, you are working under the name of Mr. X, utilising my name.

I don't have any answer to this. I don't know how should I respond to this stuff (They call it outsourcing model)

What should I do? I got 1 day to decide wether to join them or not.

shadow moss Oct 26, 2020, 2:58 PM

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that sounds shady

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but my guess is company does it

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they sell Person X as consultant or contractor then have work done by Person Y/Z, sounds like couple of Indian Consulting groups I've dealt with

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to be clear, that's not really acceptable

vast shoal Oct 26, 2020, 3:28 PM

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Sounds extremely suspicious.

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Totally inadvisable from a security perspective.

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As well as legally.

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Audits are kind of undermined if you can't rely on the person using an account is not the account's owner.

vocal gazelle Oct 26, 2020, 3:36 PM

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Perhaps consider in what ways you will be at risk if the job opportunity is shady (your reputation, job stability, your conscious, your self respect etc) and determine if you have the personality traits to accept and handle those challenges, and offset that against what you stand to gain from the job. That, or get in contact and ask further questions about the arrangement; there is no harm in gathering more information.

crude crown Oct 26, 2020, 3:53 PM

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That's for sure shady, even considering the context of outsourcing. I would follow @vocal gazelle 's advice and gather more info on what exactly they have in mind for this arrangement. But from what I can smell, unless you're desperate I wouldn't take that gig based on this shadiness alone.

wet ibex Oct 26, 2020, 4:17 PM

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How much do u guys agree with this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx3--22D4E4&ab_channel=swampswamp

YouTube

Ben Awad

Coding Interviews are Broken

Algorithm style coding interviews are very common in the tech industry, but they are a crappy method to evaluate candidates. Might work well for FANG (Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google), but the rest of the tech companies are throwing away valid applicants.

Checkout my s...

▶ Play video

merry wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 4:39 PM

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@nimble sparrow if you're working inside the USA, i'd suggest against taking the job. if you're working remotely from india i have no idea.

vapid jay Oct 26, 2020, 4:53 PM

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I just graduated with a degree in Chemistry. The jobs in this industry are just a little bit over minimum wage (16$ an hour). I wouldn't have busted my balls in Undergrad for four years if I had known this. I am highly analytical, detail oriented and have worked with computers for the majority of my pre-college life. Do you think a transition into CS from Chemistry is advisable?

harsh patio Oct 26, 2020, 4:54 PM

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@wet ibex I agree a lot with that video.

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I think a large amount of leetcode is bullshit, personally.

shadow moss Oct 26, 2020, 5:08 PM

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Sure but as someone who has to interview, it sucks on our side too

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Trying to figure out if someone can code is difficult as well

merry wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 5:25 PM

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@vapid jay chemistry is one of those fields where the jobs are dogshit unless you have a ms/phd

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you can transition into programming no problem, just a matter of how you want to put in the effort - i wouldn't suggest going back to school for a 2nd bachelors, but something like the georgia tech online masters in cs could be good if you wanted to do something more than just learning on your own (and if you have the time for it).

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i did my undergrad in electrical engineering and basically transitioned into it/devops/development roles based on the work we did with modeling software and MATLAB (which eventually became numpy/scipy as a 'free alternative'). even the jobs i had as a 'proper EE' were doing embedded systems stuff, dealing with the circuit analysis and writing VERILOG/C for embedded systems.

jolly furnace Oct 26, 2020, 5:51 PM

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what should i expect for an interview for a position for flask, react and sqlite? the normal stuff? ive never used flask only django

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and their is also this machine vision aspect too... i only know the "cliche" algorithms and nothing specific to machine vision lol

nimble sparrow Oct 26, 2020, 6:05 PM

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@shadow moss explained really clearly, they told me this is how US model works.
@vocal gazelle I tired getting more info like what kind of work / copyrights? All I got was sweet talks "opportunities -> experiences -> better pay".
Everything depends on client

All I know I got work remotely based on US time zone from India. They are ready to pay higher than most of MNC based in India.

serene wharf Oct 26, 2020, 6:13 PM

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u like to study engineer system=?

harsh patio Oct 26, 2020, 6:18 PM

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@shadow moss I think if you need to know if someone can code the dude puts forth a perfect example. Take a common problem using your tech stack and see what your candidate can do. Put them in a real life situation. You can test if they can program well with that alone. You can gauge their skill in the language you use, in your tech stack, where their concerns are. etc. etc.

serene wharf Oct 26, 2020, 6:18 PM

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hhh

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hh

shadow moss Oct 26, 2020, 6:25 PM

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@nimble sparrow That's not how US model works unless we are hiring a company to do the work and expect a finish product. If we hire people, we expect to get people we hired. That being said, the amount of fraud is rampant and price point is hard to overlook so many Indian companies do it and get away with it

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but if company is doing it, expect large friction with US co-workers just as FYI

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@harsh patio hiring on tech stacks is problematic. If we used Flask and you knew Django, you would probably be fine but crash and burn on interview questions, thus it wouldn't be fair to weed you out

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so we are left with interview tricky questions

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I do agree there is massive problem in US with companies copying FAANG practices but not FAANG benefits/salary

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like be Google SRE model!

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Ummm, we can't even deploy without 15 manual steps that are impossible to automate so........

nimble sparrow Oct 26, 2020, 6:40 PM

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Thanks @shadow moss seems like it's a kind of trap.

dapper pagoda Oct 26, 2020, 6:41 PM

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Does everyone tailor their resume and cover letters for every job they apply to?

white karma Oct 26, 2020, 6:43 PM

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That’s what I would do

harsh patio Oct 26, 2020, 6:44 PM

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@shadow moss don't take my words too literally. A person might not be able to actively program the tech stack but they could walk through how they might do it in one they are familiar with. Design processes in these ways can be awfully similar. And I agree, I think leetcode has a place for big companies but in smaller companies it makes no sense. Smaller companies need to focus in on someone who will be good for what they are specifically looking for

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personally, I study a lot in this field and I often feel if I want a new job I have to stop all the projects i'm doing just to find time for leetcode grind, rather than continuing to find time to become a better developer. The fact that such a time problem comes up should speak so much to the failure of these interviewing processes.

jolly furnace Oct 26, 2020, 6:56 PM

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any advice for interviews.... got one tmr

white karma Oct 26, 2020, 7:04 PM

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Be presentable and ask relevant questions

merry wyvern Oct 26, 2020, 7:07 PM

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@jolly furnace https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/the-flask-mega-tutorial-part-i-hello-world work through this if you're unfamiliar with flask itself

The Flask Mega-Tutorial Part I: Hello, World!

Welcome! You are about to start on a journey to learn how to create web applications with Python and the Flask framework. The video above will give you an overview of the contents of this tutorial…

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@shadow moss yeah we've had issues with indian outsourcing body shops in the past abusing hourly rates per employee - they'll end up logging 20+ hours per day for a 'senior consultant' and 3/4 of the actual work product was unusable garbage

meager reef Oct 26, 2020, 7:41 PM

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@nimble sparrow - this is shady, and it's highly-likely it violates the clients computer use policy. Sharing of credentials sets up many issues up to and including termination for, lets say, impersonating another user on a controlled network, the other person could do something and blame it on you, there are many other risks to you personally here. However, I have heard that question in a few interviews and the intent is to see if that person would violate the policy giving the interviewer something to think about.

vapid jay Oct 26, 2020, 9:26 PM

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you can transition into programming no problem, just a matter of how you want to put in the effort - i wouldn't suggest going back to school for a 2nd bachelors, but something like the georgia tech online masters in cs could be good if you wanted to do something more than just learning on your own (and if you have the time for it).
@merry wyvern How difficult is it to get into a master in cs? Is it ultra-competitive?

wispy cape Oct 26, 2020, 9:53 PM

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I mean, it's a masters, so long as you get into the program and actually work, it's given to you

harsh patio Oct 26, 2020, 10:08 PM

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My boss had me setup a meeting so we can discuss whether we want to continue representing our data in a standard format or not. I feel like this meeting is extra, but she loves meetings, i guess...

crude crown Oct 26, 2020, 10:09 PM

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just shut down your brain during the meeting

harsh patio Oct 26, 2020, 10:09 PM

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I actually do that a lot, and I probably will again haha

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Because either i'm a bystander in the meeting, or, she monopolizes it and just speaks, a lot

crude crown Oct 26, 2020, 10:10 PM

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I'd say keep your head low then.

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my job situation's is getting even more f'd up as well.

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essentially, I'm to "return" to a team which will have two people, one which is a real untouchable deadweight and the other with a dude who joined as an intern a year ago

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and I'm expected to put some order in the team and to deliver stuff, even though I'm in a lower paygrade and job title compared to that dead weight

harsh patio Oct 26, 2020, 10:14 PM

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Yeah my position seems all over the place as well. I guess the work I do is consistent if nothing else.

crude crown Oct 26, 2020, 10:19 PM

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yeah...

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I'm not proud of this at all, but I spent a good chunk of my day on preparing job applications

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it's getting that serious

harsh patio Oct 26, 2020, 10:31 PM

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you do what you have to. I spend a couple hours of my work days working another job lol. I also work like 9 hour days so, whatever. But if a job is gonna underutilize me imma take advantage

dry sapphire Oct 27, 2020, 12:47 AM

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does anyone have experience with applying for jobs through SO? what was it like?

crude crown Oct 27, 2020, 12:51 AM

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never done that before, but in principle I'd say it's better to apply through the companie's websites themselves if available

mortal hazel Oct 27, 2020, 2:38 AM

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With most job apps I use places like SO/Indeed/SEEK to find the jobs then I look for the companies website to apply directly (assuming it's not an agency ad). When I've just been shotgun-applying I have used the jobsearch sites themselves, but the hit-rate seems to be far lower

vapid jay Oct 27, 2020, 12:47 PM

#

what is the average salary (in USD) of a software engineer

true harness Oct 27, 2020, 12:51 PM

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📎 unknown.png

cobalt briar Oct 27, 2020, 12:57 PM

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holy

open patio Oct 27, 2020, 12:58 PM

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that's a very broad range

crude crown Oct 27, 2020, 1:00 PM

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I wouldn't give a great weight to those estimates but they should be in the ballpark for the US in general (excluding the obvious tech hub cities)

shadow moss Oct 27, 2020, 1:06 PM

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Nope, that’s right for tech hub cities unless FAANG

crude crown Oct 27, 2020, 1:23 PM

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seems a bit low-ish outside of FAANG but then again I'm not totally aware of the cost of living in the US (considering I'm on the other side of the pond)

plush tulip Oct 27, 2020, 1:25 PM

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There are also other sectors which are extremely tech centric in US cities that are not considered to be "tech hub" cities. Chicago has a large number of programming jobs but Facebook, Google, etc. have a hard time getting a foothold in because they do not pay enough.

swift veldt Oct 27, 2020, 1:37 PM

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Facebook and Google not paying their employee enough compared to competitors. Uh, color me surprised.

upper forge Oct 27, 2020, 1:56 PM

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Those are simply estimates. Nothing more!

shadow moss Oct 27, 2020, 1:59 PM

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I've never heard of FAANG being that interested in Chicago due to taxes

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 2:42 PM

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$60k seems very low for the US

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unless it's at a nonprofit charity organization, or some kind of very small company located outside of a major city

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maybe the us and state gov'ts have low salaries like that, but they will probably also offer good benefits and pensions

dry sapphire Oct 27, 2020, 2:44 PM

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hey so I have a question about US working conditions

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is paid leave not a common thing?

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think they're called "vacation days" or something in the US?

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 2:53 PM

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@dry sapphire it depends on the company. sometimes you have separate "sick days" and "vacation/personal" days. other times you have "pto days" (paid time off) for which the reason doesn't matter but you only have a limited amount of them. at my last job, i had something like 20 PTO days for the year, but they accrued gradually over the year so you couldn't just take a 3 week vacation in january. also my manager was pretty lenient and didn't carefully track the number of days used. other companies (often startups) offer unlimited PTO as long as it doesn't negatively affect the work schedule. some states might have specific rules and laws about PTO but generally every company decides their own system

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every state also has short-term and long-term disability systems, and well as the country-wide "FMLA" program which is a program that lets you take extended unpaid leave for medical reasons without being at risk of losing your job

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and most companies have specific programs for when you have a new child

dry sapphire Oct 27, 2020, 2:54 PM

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huh.

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and this isn't mandated by law?

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 2:55 PM

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not at the federal level

dry sapphire Oct 27, 2020, 2:55 PM

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do you have like holidays on which everyone doesn't work?

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(unless you serve food or something)

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 2:55 PM

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yes there are some nationally designated "bank holidays" but i dont think companies are required to close on those days

dry sapphire Oct 27, 2020, 2:55 PM

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not required

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but more that employees are not required to work

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 2:56 PM

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most offices are closed on thanksgiving, christmas, new year's day, labor day, and memorial day.

dry sapphire Oct 27, 2020, 2:56 PM

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and if they are, they must be given a day off-in-lieu

shadow moss Oct 27, 2020, 2:56 PM

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Federal Holidays must be given to employee or they are paid overtime for working them.

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 2:56 PM

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right

shadow moss Oct 27, 2020, 2:57 PM

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No, companies are not required to give day off in lieu

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 2:58 PM

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also it might even vary by city

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e.g. NYC has sick leave laws that do not apply to companies outside of NYC even if they are still in NY state

dry sapphire Oct 27, 2020, 3:00 PM

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ah.

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that's complicated.

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thanks for explaining

night rock Oct 27, 2020, 3:15 PM

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What language do app developers usually use?

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For mobile apps

true harness Oct 27, 2020, 3:17 PM

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on android it's typically java or kotlin

night rock Oct 27, 2020, 3:21 PM

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So what is Python most used for

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Because someone said backend web development

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but i think that is not true

true harness Oct 27, 2020, 3:22 PM

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lots of people do use python for that

night rock Oct 27, 2020, 3:23 PM

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Python web dev must only be for really big websites

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because most smaller hosts do not even support python apps properly

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 3:43 PM

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typically you just get a bare VPS and deploy it yourself, or you use some kind of serverless architecture like AWS lambda

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or you deploy in containers

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at least, that's what i did at the very-not-big company i worked for, and the entire website was one big django app (with a lot of react.js on the front end)

hollow sedge Oct 27, 2020, 3:47 PM

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how can I grow my network from zero? I am currently not in the SWE field

final flame Oct 27, 2020, 4:02 PM

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What jobs can i get if i can be a really good programmer in python???

scenic jay Oct 27, 2020, 4:12 PM

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how to learn python

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?

shadow moss Oct 27, 2020, 4:14 PM

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Mr. Leo, whoever will hire you for Python, it's very variable depending on location or such if it's easy or difficult to get hired

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around here, knowing Python alone is rarely enough to get you hired

noble pelican Oct 27, 2020, 4:36 PM

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recruiting for a python dev position now, for a junior position knowing the language well enough and understanding the tooling and processes (i.e, can you open a clean PR ?) can be enough granted there's passion

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i think a lot of companies are ready to hire on that level ... but then the question is "are you interested in what we're doing here enough to stay after we've trained you, or are you just building experience and going to jump ship"

vapid jay Oct 27, 2020, 4:57 PM

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Hi guys! I'm 17 and I have a keen interest in Flask/Django, React and ML. I live in the UK, and before going to university I thought I'd contact companies about possibly securing a position to work or learn with them. I plan on emailing them about this.

Firstly, would this be a good idea? Secondly, should there be anything that I explicitly include in my email to them?

noble pelican Oct 27, 2020, 5:17 PM

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can't be a bad idea ! i'd recommend looking for internship programs in your region, you'd know they're interested in forming this kind of relationship and also see what kind of info they ask for 🙂

vapid jay Oct 27, 2020, 5:21 PM

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I am 17 too, I am experienced in data/web scraping and other python skills. I am starting college in September for cybersecurity but currently, I am in need of some extra money for school bills and car payments. Do you guys have suggestions? I am trying Upwork but because I have only worked for local businesses I have no reviews. I have proof of stuff I've done on my pc though. I would love to find someone to work part-time if you guys know of anyone who needs an extra developer. I am a fast learner and a good problem solver. Any suggestions on what I should do to get some freelance gigs or find somewhere to help part-time?

hot saddle Oct 27, 2020, 6:12 PM

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im 13 and i want a spot for a senior software developer, ive been coding for around 1year now and my main coding interests in gui app development/connecting python apps with databases && webdatabases.

my achievements are getting on my countries tv program for my biggest project ever, if you want to check my project its the project that i will post now```python
print("Hello Worl!")

as you see im a pro in python

#

my expected salary is no less than 420000$ a year

jovial cargo Oct 27, 2020, 8:53 PM

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I am 17 too, I am experienced in data/web scraping and other python skills. I am starting college in September for cybersecurity but currently, I am in need of some extra money for school bills and car payments. Do you guys have suggestions? I am trying Upwork but because I have only worked for local businesses I have no reviews. I have proof of stuff I've done on my pc though. I would love to find someone to work part-time if you guys know of anyone who needs an extra developer. I am a fast learner and a good problem solver. Any suggestions on what I should do to get some freelance gigs or find somewhere to help part-time?
@vapid jay I would highly recommend that you start building up your portfolio. Build fun projects and push them to GitHub. Try writing tutorial blog on the projects that you do as well, that'll help a lot!

vapid jay Oct 27, 2020, 8:58 PM

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@jovial cargo Thanks bro

mortal hazel Oct 27, 2020, 11:40 PM

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@dry sapphire it depends on the company. sometimes you have separate "sick days" and "vacation/personal" days. other times you have "pto days" (paid time off) for which the reason doesn't matter but you only have a limited amount of them. at my last job, i had something like 20 PTO days for the year, but they accrued gradually over the year so you couldn't just take a 3 week vacation in january. also my manager was pretty lenient and didn't carefully track the number of days used. other companies (often startups) offer unlimited PTO as long as it doesn't negatively affect the work schedule. some states might have specific rules and laws about PTO but generally every company decides their own system
@analog turtle The idea that your holiday and sick days are in the same pool is such a joke. How can anyone look at the state of US worker's rights and think "yeah this is good"

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 11:40 PM

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@mortal hazel fwiw it can be a benefit if you dont get sick

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also i imagine any more discussion on it would be off-topic for this channel

mortal hazel Oct 27, 2020, 11:42 PM

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Ah yes, the classic US attitude of "I'm don't get sick so fuck people who do". I can't believe that is even an argument. And yeah fair this is OT so I'll leave it at that

analog turtle Oct 27, 2020, 11:43 PM

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(but yes political will is only recently starting to shift pro-worker in the US and only in certain regions like NYC)

plush tulip Oct 27, 2020, 11:44 PM

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Well its more complex than that. In some states your vacation days are considered part of your salary so companies try the whole you don't get vacation days or sick days, you get pto days (though my state doesn't allow that)

#

But for what its worth, I've been working for a company that allows essentially unlimited vacation. and the last job I had that set amount of vacation was with a Swedish company which was pretty generous on paper but didn't actually allow us in America to really take all of it in a year.

hoary frigate Oct 28, 2020, 5:17 AM

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anyone looking for group study for prep. coding interviews?

jolly furnace Oct 28, 2020, 5:21 AM

#

lmao when i was told to design db in my interview today i kinda trolled a bit

dry sapphire Oct 28, 2020, 9:26 AM

#

I read that (reputable) resume builders structure their output in such a way that the automated software recruiters use to filter resumes will be able to pick up keywords etc.

#

does anyone know anything about that

grand fog Oct 28, 2020, 9:32 AM

#

yea

#

it's called ATS

dry sapphire Oct 28, 2020, 10:02 AM

#

it's called ATS
@grand fog is it really widely used?

#

and does it affect your application a lot

grand fog Oct 28, 2020, 10:06 AM

#

depends on what your current resume looks like, because the format that they rank higher is generally the stuff you should follow while structuring your resume anw

#

check out some of the basic criteria listed here : https://resumeworded.com/resume-scanner

Resume Scanner - Get a Free ATS Resume Sca

Upload your resume to our free ATS resume tester and instantly get detailed feedback on its impact, ATS compliance and style. Improve your resume's success rate in minutes.

dry sapphire Oct 28, 2020, 12:39 PM

#

depends on what your current resume looks like, because the format that they rank higher is generally the stuff you should follow while structuring your resume anw
@grand fog fair enough

#

thanks for explaining! appreciate it a lot

harsh patio Oct 28, 2020, 2:03 PM

#

@grand fog have you used that website before?

#

The resume Scanner I mean

#

Speaking of a resume, how many projects are too many? Should personal projects be on a resume at all?

shadow moss Oct 28, 2020, 2:13 PM

#

2-3 max IMO

#

and remember, personal projects generally come into play AFTER initial screening so make sure resume is nice enough to get past the recruiter and initial screening

harsh patio Oct 28, 2020, 2:14 PM

#

You would think personal projects come into play during the initial screening if any of the tech is relevant

#

man. If this website is anywhere near correct, my resume fucking sucked lol

merry wyvern Oct 28, 2020, 3:29 PM

#

initial screening of resumes rarely involves people with a real tech background... it's either resume scanning bots or HR

harsh patio Oct 28, 2020, 3:30 PM

#

True

vapid jay Oct 28, 2020, 3:41 PM

#

true

crude crown Oct 28, 2020, 3:41 PM

#

unforunately yes...

vapid jay Oct 28, 2020, 3:41 PM

#

I stupid

#

: )

west estuary Oct 28, 2020, 3:55 PM

#

hey guys! I have a qq, do you know any channel job-board / page whre python freelancers post updates about availability to take projects?

shadow moss Oct 28, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

yea, first round is resume scanning bot or HR and they don't care about your personal projects

west estuary Oct 28, 2020, 4:17 PM

#

I do! 🙂 I'm looking for such board to review developers' projects and see if they match projects/tasks we have 🙂

#

I'm on the demand side

#

😆

merry wyvern Oct 28, 2020, 4:20 PM

#

just put some brief descriptions of the projects you're looking to get done and say you want to see portfolios in the job description

#

we've done that for security roles, like we want to see your ability to do binary reversing of various languages/OSes or for embedded platforms, and people would include vulnerability analysis reports that were (mostly) relevant. it was at least a good first-whack on the mountain of applicants to make sure we only spent time talking to people with a relevant background

vapid jay Oct 28, 2020, 5:19 PM

#

I did a tour of some biomedical engineering company, and the majority of the floor space was an entire array of cubicles, all of which were identical to one another. I could not see myself working in such an environment, especially considering that the entire purpose of my job entails turning a profit for some corporation. What do you think? Are most jobs like this?

plush tulip Oct 28, 2020, 5:57 PM

#

They had cubicles? Not just tables?

#

were they short cubicles - like if you stood up you could look over them or tall ones where you couldn't?

shadow moss Oct 28, 2020, 5:58 PM

#

Cubicles are better then open office crap

plush tulip Oct 28, 2020, 5:58 PM

#

Hell yeah! I can't believe I miss cubicles

vapid jay Oct 28, 2020, 6:05 PM

#

Short cubicles, you stand up and look around and its just a bunch of boxes organized in pairs with rows leading from the front of the building to the back

plush tulip Oct 28, 2020, 6:14 PM

#

yeah thats a pretty normal layout. Anything to break up noise like plants or banner/flags hanging from the ceiling? Did they at least have a foosball table?

merry wyvern Oct 28, 2020, 6:47 PM

#

probably the nicest thing about working in defense contracting is that open office/cubicle type layouts are much less commont

harsh patio Oct 28, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

I’ve never had a real problem with open floor layouts but I’m also aware every study has debunked that it helps collaboration and communication

merry wyvern Oct 28, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

yeah they're only popular b/c they're cheap

#

the 'real' open office concept involve large floorplans with lots of space between employees, which is expensive, and why they're not used

distant crow Oct 28, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

I think in general an open office is not great. there are moments where it's good, but by and large I don't think it makes up for the times when it's bad

#

it would be nice to have the ability to easily switch between the two, but this is somewhat impractical

plush tulip Oct 28, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

I am very happy going from an open floor plan to a nice office (in my house)

harsh patio Oct 28, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

Honestly I’m trying hard to work from home a lot. The flexibility is amazing and my office setup is better than anything I get at work

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 4:34 AM

#

just curious, does anyone do devops and how different is it from an actual dev position

grizzled sonnet Oct 29, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

Anyone doing any freelance work, if yes then do you have any advice about someone who might be looking to get into it?

#

advice for*

dire shell Oct 29, 2020, 6:26 AM

#

@grizzled sonnet Which stages of freelance work were you interested in getting advice for?

grizzled sonnet Oct 29, 2020, 6:28 AM

#

@dire shell Well i would like to know what the best platform is and also what sort of jobs are in demand. Those would be my two questions primarily

dire shell Oct 29, 2020, 6:29 AM

#

What do you mean by platform? And which city were you planning to get work at?

grizzled sonnet Oct 29, 2020, 6:30 AM

#

Oh I mean "online" freelance work, by platforms i mean fiverr , upwork etc

#

@dire shell by jobs i mean are people actually lookinjg for long term python developers or do they needs scripters and completions of mini tasks.

#

@dire shell i was introduced to python in 2016 and i currently live in islamabad, pakistan.

dire shell Oct 29, 2020, 6:36 AM

#

Ah gotcha. The platforms you mentioned are definitely fine.

#

It's hard to generalise whether people want long-term developers vs short-term stuff. It really depends on the organisation, the problems they are trying to solve, and of course their situation financially, politically, and technically.

grizzled sonnet Oct 29, 2020, 6:44 AM

#

@dire shell ahh i see , and of course the rates probably vary depending on where the employer is located , thanks so much for you input I'm sure I need to thoroughly research this and then take the appropriate steps.

dire shell Oct 29, 2020, 6:45 AM

#

You mentioned long-term. Worth including remote work in your search. Mostly not freelance, but you get long-term work.

#

Also worth considering what other aspects you might want in a job. Of course being able to "code" for work is great, but there may be other interesting aspects to a job - mentoring, talking to non-technical people to build stuff for them with their input, coding to answer a scientific or medical problem.

#

There are companies where you are one of many developers writing code for other clients, without much consultation with the actual client. On the other hand, there are smaller companies with their own in-house dev. Of course this is just an extreme caricature with plenty of scenarios in between!

grizzled sonnet Oct 29, 2020, 6:50 AM

#

hmm

#

Great points!

#

@dire shell What i love really about python is problem solving and being able to apply my technical knowledge, I wouldn't mind having to work on extensive projects that test my ceiling as a coder but then when i really think about it ... what i feel like really doing is working on a diverse range of projects , that's how I've always been -> wanting to work on new things that challenge me and push my limits. Because I feel like that is the only way i will learn more. I donj't know if this is the same for everyone.

#

Of course the cases you have talked about make sense and I'm adding remote work to the list of things I will research

#

Thanks so much.

dire shell Oct 29, 2020, 6:59 AM

#

Welcome. Sorry I wasn't able to provide any specific advice, but I hope some of this general ones help. I was also going to suggest University employee - from admin, support, to profs. Sometimes they are in need of technical work (or they can definitely benefit from it), so if you know someone who is in such position, worth reaching out as well!

#

My first gig was basically this - writing a simple survey tool for an instructor!

grizzled sonnet Oct 29, 2020, 7:04 AM

#

Ahh 🙂 I see.

#

yeah i've done similar stuff... hehe but It was even simpler I had to take a bunch of people who I will not name from being absolutely uninformed about python to being able to read code ..... Needless to say it was the perfect time to take out my OLD notes... hehe

#

@dire shell thanks again .. And all the best.

distant crow Oct 29, 2020, 8:28 AM

#

just curious, does anyone do devops and how different is it from an actual dev position
@jolly furnace I do a lot, and yes. it's quite different. You spend more time trying to figure out how to configure something than writing code

fervent maple Oct 29, 2020, 10:39 AM

#

(need advice)
Hello,
I am a freelance UI/UX Designer. I want to be a freelancer but it's getting hard to get projects. I am easily being able to score jobs.
I do have a stable long term project in which I have to give around 4 hours a day
but I have a lot of free time, how to get more projects. I was thinking to tie up with good programmers(in this server) so I can do UI/UX work for them and they will just have to code.
Can I do that?
Any advice?

jovial cargo Oct 29, 2020, 11:55 AM

#

Start doing "fun" projects and build up your portfolio

#

start writing blogs

#

That'll help in the long run @fervent maple

sullen osprey Oct 29, 2020, 12:00 PM

#

Guys any idea where i can find online python (flask) job, as i have been leaening it for a long time and i would like to work with real people on it and if possible to earn cash

fervent maple Oct 29, 2020, 1:12 PM

#

@jovial cargo thankss will do that

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

@jolly furnace devops is more akin to systems administration/infrastructure than real application development. depending on the specific role you're either doing something akin to scripting out infrastructure/middleware deployments or possibly just managing a jenkins or gitlab CI pipeline. you can learn an insane amount about language runtimes and OS internals if you get a position with helpful seniors, though. but in this economy just take what you can get lol

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 3:23 PM

#

ah tx

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 6:06 PM

#

im prob gonna go for a dev position rather than dev ops

#

cuz thats prob easier to get another dev position from a dev position than going from dev ops

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:08 PM

#

depends on what you get to work on, honestly. devops positions are generally more senior than an entry level development position... but even a ultra-junior devops position would be better than like... working on some SAP dumpsterfire

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 6:21 PM

#

lmao i hear so much ppl wanting to go to SAP

#

heading to the dumpster fire lol

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:26 PM

#

So I would like to change career paths and start a career as a Python Developer. Looking for advice on the best training materials, I have completed code academy (python), googles python crash course, and I have access to the Mega Python training course, and I've started a Django course on Udemy (which I'm stuck on).

Any advice is much appreciated on how to get started professionally. I have some tools out there but they are really basic...most of you would probably laugh me out of the room but here they are so feel free to judge the crap out me lol :
https://github.com/jsmit260

GitHub

jsmit260 - Overview

Hacker, Pen Tester, Breaker of Things. jsmit260 has 118 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

#

My background is in InfoSec as a Pen Tester

#

mostly

#

I am a student at GA Tech where I did multiple Python projects per semester but most we were give skeleton code

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

lmao the bot reacted to skeleton

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

that's cool, my background is somewhat similar, what sort of pen testing stuff have you done profesionally?

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

which is prob not what it was intended to do

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

I work for a Pen Test team that attacks a large Payment Processing Company

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

i dont see anything in your 'digital resume' thing

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

they have many subs so we test each env individually

#

its network and webapp

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

what sorts of things do you do? like build tools and use them or are you running nessus scans or what

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

yea digital resume is the Django course on Udemy which is missing info and I can't fix the code cause well I just started the course lol

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

do you have a cv?

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshsmithit/

#

Yea I use all the tools you would expect

#

Nessus, NeXpose, Metasploit

#

all the tools out there on github

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

i guess what i was getting at was what is the scope of tools you yourself have built, maintained and deployed

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

I have only 1 tool on that level

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

like i'm reading your description of your current position and it sounds kind of... basic? like it doesnt describe any of the projects you've implemented and how it's used

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

but no one used it in the community lol

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

well, then that's what you need to work on

#

was it used at your job?

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

https://github.com/jsmit260/reachability

GitHub

jsmit260/reachability

Are the target ranges reachable? Contribute to jsmit260/reachability development by creating an account on GitHub.

#

yea my team used it

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

okay, well you should describe that project in your linkedin

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

it is basically to confirm proper access has been granted given the scoping doc

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

there are a lot of bulletpoints in this that i would categorize as 'largely meaningless'

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

lol

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

Actively develops the Pen Test Program - what does this mean

#

are you developing software? or doing people management?

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

just curious is the anon pfp on ur linkedin intentional?

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

Fashions custom exploit code - talk more about this

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

I created the workflow and supporting documentation

#

and presentations

#

some of it was for my teams but most was for the customer to know what we do, why we are doing it, who is responsible for what

#

it was not a dev job

#

at all

#

the tools I build are always just for me

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

i mean yes but you hvae to think of it like this: how has your current job prepared you for software development

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

no one else on my team could code

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

and the closest analogue (and this was how i did it myself) was to build tools and document them and show people how to use them

#

also things like have you done post-incident remediation yourself? like have you taken a shit app and written examples of how to implement various improvements?

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

no that is considered code review

#

outside of my realm of security work

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

• Crafts Python, BASH, and AutoIt scripts to solve redundant tasks - this is good, expand on it

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

for sure

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

like i'd go through your resume, make a new overview of each of your jobs, and focus only on the devleopment-related stuff

#

there is also management/organization stuff, too

#

but i'd particularly focus around things like... what elements expanded your understanding of various OSes and IT/infrastructure stuff (looks like you did some basic windows/AD administration stuff, and have some experience with bash scripting, and ostensibly you learned about TCP/IP during all of this...)

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

yea I know to much about protocols

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

and then flesh out more about 1-2 projects (that you scripted or programmed) at each role and talk about what you were trying to fix, how you fixed it, the tools/languages you used, and how you verified/supported your solution after deployment

#

so make a new list where for each of your last 4 jobs, you list your 1-3 most impressive 'projects' that you implemented, and then maybe 2-3 other extraneous points

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

Roger that

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

also you should include in at least one of your last 4 jobs that you used git based version control

#

because im assuming you know how to use git

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

@jolly furnace - Yes I added the Anon pic on purpose

#

I did that back when I wasn't looking for work and I don't want people reverse image searching me. I had some co-workers throw me under the bus for looking for new work by monitoring my linkedin every day

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:43 PM

#

yeah i understand that

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:44 PM

#

I understand the basics of git

#

I haven't collab'd with anybody before though

#

I'm green af

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:44 PM

#

but you could/should clean up your overview - be more straightforward about having a background in infosec/pentesting, you recently finished a MSCS, and you're interested in applying your tool building background to new projects in software development

#

that's fine

#

everyone starts green

#

also you have a link to a blog in your contact info which appears to be offline? hyperdrivesecurity?

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

yea another thing I took down due to co-workers trying to get me in trouble with my employer

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

yeah

#

sounds shitty, understandable

#

also, are you cleared?

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

do I have sec clearance?

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

yes

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

I do

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

okay that's a huge plus

#

you should just look at moving to a different security contractor

#

or do you want to move out of cleared work?

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

My main point of concern is remaining full remote

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

ok

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

most clearance jobs seem to require butts in seats....and I can't 😦

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

like permanently full 100% remote?

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

yea

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

yeah i mean you cant do SCIF work remotely

#

i mean can you physically not work in an office or is it just a nice-to-have that you'd like to have moving forward?

#

i mean i'd assume georgia is mega different from the DC-area where i am in terms of how many people are working remotely due to covid, but what do i know

#

https://clearedjobs.net/l-Atlanta,Georgia-jobs.html you should check this out

Cleared Jobs in Atlanta Georgia | ClearedJobs.Net

Find Atlanta cleared jobs in defense, intelligence and cybersecurity. We're veteran owned!

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

Yea my Pen Team has been full remote for years no

#

w

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

ah ok

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

What is the best and worst parts about being python developer?

#

I just enjoy the thrill of making a working product

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

i mean python is just one of the languages i do work in, but yeah what you describe is nice

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

I find myself reading books about it

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

i like the biome of tools around it, it's productive and relatively easy to debug with

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

I use pycharm as an IDE is there a better one?

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

but honestly you should be able to transition into a more development-facing role if you're so inclined with no problem

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

I used VIM for a long time

#

lol

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

i mean it depends for me... sometimes im forced to use vim, sometimes i use sublimetext or vscode

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

development-facing role?

#

what titles should I look for?

#

I appreciate you helping me out here

#

btw

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

software engineer, security engineer, etc

#

yeah that's fine man

#

but i'd search through clearedjobs for your clearance level and python and just see what pops up

#

also since you're looking for remote stuff, you can try looking for things in the WDC area as well - that's a gigantic hub of stuff

#

but i think before you start applying you should go back and refactor your resume so that it's centered around the various programming/scripting projects you've done at each of your last 4 jobs, and then when you're talking to people tell them that's the most rewarding part of your job and you're looking to tranisition into a role where you're spending more of your workday on building software tools and applications

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

what kind of payscale should I expect?

#

I figure I will be taking a cut

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

impossible to say, honestly

#

i mean are you SCI/poly?

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

lmao i have a entry lvl offer and its 20 bucks an hr

#

i think i may be on the lower end

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 6:59 PM

#

ouch

#

I wish I could do that

#

this might end up a pipe dream for me

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 6:59 PM

#

i have a feeling its 30 bucks

#

on average

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

no, you don't have to take much of a paycut as long as you stay in cleared work

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

I see thats good to know

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

if any, really

#

i mean im not familiar with payscales in atlanta

#

i know its a lower COL area than WDC metro

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

mind u tho that what im saying is prob not true in america cuz im not american

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

I see

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

yeah the US is totally different market

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

I didn't mean to knock your pay rate

#

Its a respectable income

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

you get paid more but you're responsible for way more, and have less vacation and stuff

#

like healthcare, etc

#

some jobs in the USA you get fewer than 3 weeks vacation lol

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

Right, normally you get 2 if you are lucky

#

I negotiated 3

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

i mean in teh DC area 3 + federal holidays is basically the baseline

#

the south is a backwater in that regard

#

but stuff is cheaper!

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

I don't belong here...lol

#

I just can't move

#

Wife has me tied down

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

yeah

#

it's tough

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

I was born further south in the sticks of AL

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

would you be able to swing something that is like, say, 90% remote?

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

maybe

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

hah, yeah, unless you're on the space coast it's like the dark ages

#

we had some guys at my last job that were remote all but 1 week every other month

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

yea I'm still arguing with people that evolution Evolution is real, and that Scientific Theory isn't just a 'theory'

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

lmao yeah dude

#

it always comes hand in glove with hyper paranoid micromanaging, as well - at least in my limited experience

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

Python programming or working in the south or Remote working

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:11 PM

#

working in the south lol... i had a job that was in southern virginia years ago

#

but compared to AL/GA that's nothing

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:12 PM

#

yes it is def hard to be surrounded by so many mouth breathers

#

basically why I keep to myself and code in hopes they all fade away

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:14 PM

#

lmao

#

i feel like your best bet is to look at remote positions in the WDC area

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:14 PM

#

roger that

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:14 PM

#

look on cleared jobs for 'python' as a keyword and put in your clearance level

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

is this where you look?https://www.clearancejobs.com/

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

there's also a clearedjobs.com

#

err, clearedjobs.net

#

you can put in location, clearance level, then put Python in the keywords area and you should be golden

coarse hill Oct 29, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

😍

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 8:24 PM

#

isnt it just primarily 2: react and angular

merry wyvern Oct 29, 2020, 8:36 PM

#

in my area react is the most popular

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 9:23 PM

#

imo u might as well stick to react

#

so any advice on what i should choose. i got a dev position for 20 bucks an hr but then there is also a devops position thats for a decently sized company working with 5g products. what should i choose....

swift lagoon Oct 29, 2020, 10:34 PM

#

Hi, what do you need to know to become a junior python developer?

true harness Oct 29, 2020, 10:35 PM

#

"Python"

jolly furnace Oct 29, 2020, 10:37 PM

#

lmao its literally figure out some python and spam resumes

neon haven Oct 29, 2020, 11:46 PM

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so I am sure that someone has already asked this, but here I am.

So I have been programming in python for about 5 years. I am good enough to get paid occasionally (by the job) to do small projects for some small businesses.

How would I get a Python job? What would I even do? I mean, when I develop personally I mostly do CLI apps that set up random things from input (like setting mikrotik/ansible code etc.) I really like flask and I have been getting back into it. I can also do some minimal API word. What does the general Python programmer do?

Would it be better (in general) to get a regular job or to be a freelancer?

mortal hazel Oct 29, 2020, 11:59 PM

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As someone who started in a job with basically zero python experience my question/point is always "Where are you willing to start?"

neon haven Oct 30, 2020, 12:07 AM

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I am willing to start anywhere

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lol

mortal hazel Oct 30, 2020, 12:09 AM

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Well if you want to make this your career I would think it's best to get a formal role at least to start out. I think without a big project or portfolio it would be hard to stand out as a freelancer

neon haven Oct 30, 2020, 12:11 AM

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sounds about right.

mortal hazel Oct 30, 2020, 12:11 AM

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Find roles that you think look interesting/fit your skillset and just apply. The worst that can happen is they say no. And don't get hung up on needing to fill every requirement. Every job I've ever got I didn't tick every box

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And interviewing will probably help you find out if this is the path you want to take too

neon haven Oct 30, 2020, 12:17 AM

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thanks!

prime prawn Oct 30, 2020, 2:13 AM

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@neon haven based on jobs from your location/region most likely, i'm lucky enough to get a dev job with Django/Flask where i live. Because in Asia mostly javascript and php is popular around web development(in western countries like US is a good place to get jobs related to python), i don't work with ML but some folks can tell that to you. Web dev is a good field if you just started

jolly furnace Oct 30, 2020, 2:37 AM

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i just think u gotta send ur resume a lot

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and sometimes u just gotta start small

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instead of a big company

neon haven Oct 30, 2020, 3:52 AM

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ye

harsh patio Oct 30, 2020, 4:43 AM

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Do we have any older devs in here? People who have maybe been around the industry 10 years or more?

timber anchor Oct 30, 2020, 4:58 AM

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Wait there is interview?

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What does that do?

jolly furnace Oct 30, 2020, 5:12 AM

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lmao

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whats an interview

neon haven Oct 30, 2020, 5:13 AM

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lmao

timber anchor Oct 30, 2020, 5:15 AM

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Well I know what it is

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But like how does it work?

jolly furnace Oct 30, 2020, 5:17 AM

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an opportunity to see if u like the company and an opportunity for the company to see if ur a good fit

reef kayak Oct 30, 2020, 5:19 AM

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Anyone has experience with being AWS Certified?

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Like has it help in finding internships/jobs?

neon haven Oct 30, 2020, 5:19 AM

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IDK about AWS, but the A+ cert certaintly helps

jolly furnace Oct 30, 2020, 5:34 AM

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depends on what type i guess

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like if u show some decent projects

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its pretty fine too

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like i just had a couple projects

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and i got some interviews without any certifications

reef kayak Oct 30, 2020, 5:40 AM

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I mean I got interviews to without it

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I was just wondering for better companies

jolly furnace Oct 30, 2020, 5:44 AM

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i think for those companies

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its how well u do those coding interviews

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that kind of sets u above the rest

reef kayak Oct 30, 2020, 5:52 AM

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Yeah I know

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Does it help for getting the interview though?

jolly furnace Oct 30, 2020, 5:55 AM

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prob no

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but it prob wont hurt

prime prawn Oct 30, 2020, 8:00 AM

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AWS certs always a plus in a resume

vestal basalt Oct 30, 2020, 8:35 AM

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I am AWS certified

vapid jay Oct 30, 2020, 11:04 AM

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does it pay well to work as a freelance programmer?

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also this is not a python only question

little reef Oct 30, 2020, 12:15 PM

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Where would be a great place to get projects from? Sorry I’m still new to this

vapid jay Oct 30, 2020, 2:48 PM

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your mind

merry wyvern Oct 30, 2020, 3:02 PM

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are you in the US and a current university student?

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if so, where

neon haven Oct 30, 2020, 3:23 PM

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Where would be a great place to get projects from? Sorry I’m still new to this
@little reef realpython is a good place for both tutorials and ideas

jolly furnace Oct 30, 2020, 5:05 PM

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there was google step

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its kinda aimed at ppl with minimal experience

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or u can just spam ur resume to many companies to get some internshi

merry wyvern Oct 30, 2020, 5:36 PM

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@neat shadow honestly you can either work on some toy examples of web/app development if you want, or if you're more interested in getting specifically professional experience you can try reaching out to social orgs and see if they need help with their websites, or see if there are IT internships you could do at like your local school system or library maybe? we used to have younger interns work on our HOA's website, which is possibly a thing you could get involved in, but it wasn't exactly cutting edge or exciting - was mostly just doing basic debugging of wordpress and wordpress adjacent websites and maybe some light administration and content manamgement

plush tulip Oct 30, 2020, 7:11 PM

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@neat shadow Why worry about that as a freshman? Its really easy to get an internship possibly after your sophomore year and most definitely after your junior year.

jolly furnace Oct 30, 2020, 7:51 PM

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sometimes u may have to start off with a small company

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at least ull get some experience

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and then go to the bigger ones

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after u have some experience

granite rune Oct 31, 2020, 1:16 AM

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hello everyone, I am wondering if anyone can share the reason why they are studying Python? what is your goal and why? I am trying to change careers and I've been studying diligently the past couple months and tried to apply to some internships my professor recommended. However, as my studies get deeper and the time committed gets bigger, I started to sit back and ask myself why I want to change careers. I think a part of me is lacking confidence because I do not know specifically what careers are out there for me. When someone says a software engineer, I am not sure what that entitles to entirely. If you guys don't mind sharing your story, i'd really appreciate it as it may help open my eyes to what opportunities are out there. Also, i studied linguistics in my undergrad and became interested in combining linguistics with computer science. Thank you for reading this long message 🙂 ~

raw prawn Oct 31, 2020, 1:43 AM

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@granite rune prepare for a huge wall of text:

hat's an interesting change in careers. Well, I actually didn't want to study programming at all. I loved computers, but not languages to manage computers, it was taboo for me. Many years later I found myself in a spot in which I wanted to do something. Something that could change my world, and possible the world of others. I wanted to make a difference.

At the time, when I asked myself that question, I realized that I had no money, no work experience, living in a third-world country, with very little possibilities, but with the huge advantage of the internet.

Feeling defeated, I went to a cyber-café and downloaded a Python book. Guess what? I didn't get it. And don't get me wrong, I could print something, I could read files, and I could do exercises, but nothing of that was useful to my context at that time.

Years later I started working. My first job came late. And I found myself doing a lot of repetitive tasks. I thought to myself: Maybe I can find something to make my life easier. I started downloading little programs to move the mouse automatically, made some Excel macros, and that worked... for a while.

Because non of that actually helped me for the very specific tasks that I was dealing with. And because I found nothing like that, I thought that I should write something myself.

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I gave Python a second try. And this time it was different. I wrote a very basic script that you can still find online (https://github.com/franccesco/spi-work) and started tinkering with it. I made it write a file, with a custom template, and save it in certain folders, neatly organized. Nothing fancy honestly.

It helped me save so much time, that after a while, I was obsessed with it. I wanted to learn everything! With the little that I knew at the moment started improving it. I shared it with teammates, and suddenly I realized that something that I did with my own fingers was making revenue for the company as the employees were able to do work more faster and efficiently.

I made a difference. And I wanted to continue doing that. So, if you're looking to get into code try to identify small things that you could improve with it. Maybe searching for files, checking something on a web page, cataloguing your favorite videos, and so on. Something that makes your life, or the life of others better, and you'll become obsessed with it just like me!

granite rune Oct 31, 2020, 1:50 AM

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@raw prawn Wow, thank you for your thorough response and sharing your story with me :)! I didn't know you could do all those things. I guess being a consumer and user of technology for so long, I take technology for granted. I'm glad you shared with me those examples!

vapid jay Oct 31, 2020, 5:53 AM

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Hello Everyone I am Thinking Of Becoming a developer currently india I am just a student rn, thinking of getting CS degree from one of finest engeneering institutes in India NEED SOME HELP ABOUT WHAT languages should I learn I currently know java will start python soon

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😳

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Every suggestion is welcomed just ping me❤️❤️

runic snow Oct 31, 2020, 5:57 AM

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hi im from india too!

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well my name says it all

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lol

hexed moon Oct 31, 2020, 10:40 AM

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Eh focus on python, Java and js for front end shit everything else you learn as you need it and will never master anything trying to learn all tools without anything for it

runic snow Oct 31, 2020, 11:59 AM

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ok...

finite crane Oct 31, 2020, 12:45 PM

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I need work guys

lunar forge Oct 31, 2020, 12:53 PM

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@vapid jay I'm from India too guide me too, please.

vapid jay Oct 31, 2020, 12:55 PM

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Dm@lunar forge

lunar forge Oct 31, 2020, 12:57 PM

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what is dm?

vapid jay Oct 31, 2020, 1:14 PM

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Direct message=DM

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@lunar forge

jaunty cradle Oct 31, 2020, 3:00 PM

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I am a team lead in Dubai and looking to work with a remote engineer who has at least junior level of technology. 👋👋👋👋👋 🇦🇪
It will be part time work at first.

Basic understanding of technical - at least junior developer
Experience working remote.
Open-minded and think out of box.
Always kind & cooperative.
DM me for more details

distant crow Oct 31, 2020, 3:08 PM

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@jaunty cradle this channel isn't for recruiting, please see channel description and rules

ocean ledge Oct 31, 2020, 3:52 PM

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and if you're gonna post jobs, at least post salaries and compensation

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smh

grizzled goblet Oct 31, 2020, 4:04 PM

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I am a team lead in Dubai and looking to work with a remote engineer who has at least junior level of technology. 👋👋👋👋👋 🇦🇪
It will be part time work at first.

Basic understanding of technical - at least junior developer

Experience working remote.

Open-minded and think out of box.

Always kind & cooperative.
DM me for more details
@jaunty cradle hi

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arabic ?

jaunty cradle Oct 31, 2020, 4:12 PM

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English.

feral wigeon Oct 31, 2020, 4:40 PM

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If you look carefully at the value of codedString below, there is a hidden message. The message could be decoded by printing out every other character in the string. Write a program with a while loop that displays every other character. This means the a would be skipped and I would be printed. Write the code and tell me what the hidden message is.

codedString = "aIdlYouvhetPhyotoheoqnm!"

lunar forge Oct 31, 2020, 5:20 PM

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@ƉηѦ ł Raven Got it

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I'm in 11th can someone tell how to learn python or where to learn?

true harness Oct 31, 2020, 5:22 PM

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!resources

inner wrenBOT Oct 31, 2020, 5:22 PM

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Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

quiet dune Oct 31, 2020, 9:10 PM

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Is there any good projects that I can do and display on my github, to show possible employers? I have worked with it professionally, but it was when I was employed, so I don't have a lot to show off.

shadow moss Oct 31, 2020, 11:04 PM

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How long were you employed?

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You can add some similar to what you did at work projects but GitHub only comes into play after your interview and if you can show professional experience, it shouldn’t matter a ton.

quiet dune Oct 31, 2020, 11:05 PM

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A little over a year, was let go in March 😛

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Okay, but most of the systems I made had to interact with 3rd party stuff, like an sms gateway, which costs money, as far as I know or had to interact with their internal portal website and tools, which I don't have access to anymore.

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But I'll try to see if I can make something similar with the tools I do have access to.

shadow moss Oct 31, 2020, 11:09 PM

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Sure but you could call public rest API

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What country?

quiet dune Oct 31, 2020, 11:10 PM

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Denmark. Not sure what you mean by public rest API, like for test instead of production or what?

shadow moss Oct 31, 2020, 11:12 PM

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REST API?