But yeah, you're going to come across some older folks who are both new to a field and want to avoid open source libraries who write some atrocious code that you later have to work with
#career-advice
distant crow
we have actual questions in the AI/ML role aimed at weeding out people with a bad case of NIH
because we're involved in the use of these algorithms but we get a lot of people applying who want to come up with the next great ML algorithm
we aren't that kind of company; we're end users of the research. we productionize the research for end applications. not come up with new ML research
crude crown
as long you make that clear in the job posting...
mortal wedge
We're both. We have a science division and a marketing division
distant crow
you know how applicants are like - if it's remotely a fit, they'll apply. I don't blame them
mortal wedge
Ofc science division has to bow to marketing
crude crown
I don't blame them as well
distant crow
and so we have questions at screening call stage to avoid this
crude crown
but it's really important to make things really clear up front
that happens to be kind of a problem with my current gig
mortal wedge
How so?
crude crown
I was sold that it would be a mix of putting stuff in prod. and some research work
but the truth is that it isn't like that at all.
crude crown
I work in an SaaS company
mortal wedge
Gotcha
crude crown
They just want to ship things as fast as possible
mortal wedge
Research work excites everyone, but in my industry it's really the startups that focus on that sort of thing
crude crown
so there's absolutely no applied R&D here (no matter how much they bullshit on that).
It's literally just finding the lowest hanging fruits as much as possible or pre-existing implementations and ship those as services.
(I'm skipping some details on this but it's the gist of it basically)
TL;DR: Make your expectations really clear up front and don't bullshit your applicants and bait and switch them.
Not saying it's your case mind you...
distant crow
sounds familiar, it's like that at this and previous place I worked. but we really don't want people who are after R&D, for exactly this reason
they're not going to get it
crude crown
as long as you don't bait and switch them, it's all good 🙂
I mean
I understand why companies are like this
they're not R&D organizations after all
but for fucks sake, don't lie to your job applicants.
(sorry for the rant here)
mortal wedge
No worries, I think it's on topic 🙂
sweet shore
I accepted a role with At&t for a software engineer a few years ago, and I ended up doing Tomcat support, and also, didn't even get a computer to work on for 3 months ... Anyway, that is a weird 4 month blip on my resume lol
mortal wedge
haha
stable light
@mortal wedge You switched from C++ to Python right?
mortal wedge
Yes
stable light
How was the transition?
mortal wedge
Majestic. Like going down a water slide. No resistance, just learning about the things I could stop worrying about and playing with new toys/tools I now had access to.
stable light
Nice
It's been 2 days since I started learning Python and I find it easy compared to C++
Besides, what do you?
mortal wedge
I work in algorithm development for the biomedical industry
My current project involves converting some current in house libraries from C++ to Python
stable light
Okay, so AI it is
Apparently I took a 4 month break from coding and only recently have come back to it
mortal wedge
Breaks are important
stable light
Yeah
I used to do Android back then
Now no longer
Because I don't like frontend honestly
mortal wedge
Same
stable light
But the job scenario where I live is so shit, I feel like doing web dev would be the only valid option
Do you do anything other than AI?
mortal wedge
Just algorithm development. It keeps me busy enough 🙂
stable light
Alright
distant crow
breaks are important. without them you'll fall through into the next case
on a serious note, also look into backend roles
python backend dev isn't limited to "make an API and serve templated pages for the web", it encompasses any business logic for whatever service this is providing. these days that can be anything
name three websites you go to often that aren't news sites. there's probably quite a lot of backend that you wouldn't think about normally
crude crown
this is "nitpicking" but algorithms != AI
storm tangle
has anyone here know how to apply for the IBM Apprenticeship program?
I didnt see any main openings on their website
woeful spruce
what do you do in the apprenticeship program?
gilded valley
afaik the US doesn't really have apprenticeships
woeful spruce
they typically have those for Trades
never heard about it being offered for tech jobs
maybe they meant internship?
mortal wedge
Probably
mortal wedge
Oh cool
random shuttle
@mortal wedge why are you switching from C++ to Python in your company?
mortal wedge
So that our code/algorithms can draw more from open source support, be refined more quickly, and are more readable.
slow lotus
are any of you guys quants
random shuttle
@mortal wedge makes sense... you don't have performance issue after switching to Python, or do you have high enough margin of tolerance concerning performance?
I am not Quant, but data scientist and backend engineer mostly coding in Python
mortal wedge
I've actually done pretty well using scientific computational libraries like numpy or scipy to keep my performance high. When I need to, I'll write mission critical portions in C
random shuttle
I was also suspecting that... I had recently quite perfomance sensitive code chunks refactored in numpy (or even tensorflow)... problem with numpy is that it's not managing parallelization... but the result was defeating the purpose or having readable code, and I was actually thinking of taking the other way, from Python to C or C++
well, in this case over 90% of the code was a critical portion (large scale micro-simulation)
mortal wedge
nod
Sounds like C or C++ could be good for that
Although I'm not sure if that would be more or less readable than numpy
wispy cape
i find numpy fairly readable tbh, if you can manage the same perfs with c++ as with numpy with better or equal readability, it's either very good c++, or very bad numpy
distant crow
if you use numpy, you can also potentially switch it for cupy, and gain GPU speeds on some calculations without much effort
which really highlights what Python is about: be able to do more without having to learn a lot of new and specialized skills. I don't think anyone will say it can beat the performance of C++, but you can probably get to where you want to go faster than if you used C++
Numba also
so yes, to spin this on-topic: learn python and numpy for data science jobs
mortal wedge
Numpy is the best
distant crow
C++ is great, but it's no surprise employers are more interested in getting things working sooner (and then importing a few libraries that just drop in and make things even faster) than optimizing everything. And often business needs move on quickly as well
shadow moss
not to mention there is now ways to toss compute at an issue easily and cheaply
wintry imp
@distant crow @gilded valley sorry u guys feel that way. Thnx for enlightening me
Haha too dumb for it
distant crow
a lot of people will say stuff like that on the internet. it's gatekeeping. same reason people think Python isn't a real language because it's simple to learn and doesn't have static types
distant crow
on the plus side this means you don't need to have an engineering degree to have a programming career
wintry imp
But ye I heard many ppl saying it so I kinda set my mindset that way.
distant crow
nah, that's toxic gatekeeping that is
wintry imp
Yup got it thnx
distant crow
plenty of people have good programming careers without a degree, and after your first job, employers stop caring about your degree and look at your previous work history
so really it only matters in your first job
exception being certain parts of programming that need a strong theoretical foundation
wintry imp
But like if u getting u have degree from reputed college or uni isn't it like easier to land ur first job? Is it that the companies label them already as fit to work?
Can u give me lil brief on what theoretical foundation u talking about if ur free?
distant crow
yeah. but what if you spent those 4 years working instead?
4 years work experience would put you at a mid-level. would an employer rather hire someone with 4 years industry experience, or someone fresh out of college with none?
wispy cape
Maybe I'll pass as some kind of elitist asshat, but there's a difference between developing websites for a small startup and building critical software in the aerospatial, medical, automobile, environment, etc
You can't really improvise in these kind of jobs, there are standards to follow and stuff, and the degree is some form of weak guaranty that you can follow some of these standards
distant crow
you may have missed the context: earlier the phrase to the effect of "programmers are not software engineers" came up
wispy cape
I completely agree with it, but that's a controversial opinion
Many people would not agree with you (us)
distant crow
ah "web devs can't be called software engineers"
wintry imp
I was gonna ask about the same thing @wispy cape said?can u say being a mid level in small company is same as working for big tech companies?
wispy cape
Well, I don't think it's that simple, I'll definitely call the guys who developed the electron software that ran in spacex' last launch "engineers"
distant crow
what if those people don't have a degree
there's no threshold for it
incidentally I have an engineering degree, but not in computer science. Does that automatically make me a software engineer? or do I still not meet the threshold? or does it depend how good I am at programming
wispy cape
I don't think the degree has anything to do with it, other than the fact that most companies doing """true""" engineering will want them, as it is at least a small guaranty for their clients
distant crow
I'm not talking about those companies, I'm talking web dev
if a degree isn't part of the requirement to be a software engineer, then what is?
wintry imp
@wispy cape what if the person who got the degree is dumb
wispy cape
doing actual engineering work
distant crow
which is...?
wispy cape
not whatever we're all doing with programming atm
the field is super young, full of opinionated zealots, people treat it like "art" or "a craft" instead of an engineering field
for as long as we'll do that, I won't call it engineering
distant crow
I don't see the difference. bearing in mind I've worked in the automotive sector as an engineer doing this so-called "engineering work"
designing new kinds of electric motors for a car manufacturer, which actually requires a lot less rigorous coding than a lot of the web work I do today
wintry imp
Hmmm
wispy cape
there's a reason repos like this one exist: https://github.com/auchenberg/volkswagen, or that airbus was blamed for outsourcing developers when they killed a few hundred ppl
i personally see programming as a tool, that can be used for more or less rigourous tasks and processes
not airbus err
boeing
distant crow
so we can establish that there are good and bad "engineers" too, so I don't see a clear delineation of what is "engineering" and what is "programming" therefore saying web dev isn't engineering is not a useful generalisation
wintry imp
But y u comparing it based on how much effort u need to put lol
wispy cape
I specifically said I don't agree with the "web dev is not engineering"
I'm saying not every "programmer" is an "engineer"
wintry imp
Oh
sharp maple
May I ask, what does a software engineer do?
wispy cape
We should drop this convo before one of us (me) gets kicked for gatekeeping or elitism or something
mortal wedge
Well, you can use programming to help you with engineering work
I'd say that's an engineer
sharp maple
ok, thanks
distant crow
but what is engineering work?
wintry imp
Lol
mortal wedge
Work that could be done manually and tediously without programming
Sorry Alice, I wasn't answering you, I was responding to the other question
err comment
sharp maple
so the work is like biotech but for engineering?
wintry imp
Lol
distant crow
I think "engineering work" was a nice and clean definition before computers came along. but now we have this weird thing called software that defies all those old definitions. you can't hit software with a hammer. you can copy it without effort.... it's broken the definition of "engineering"
mortal wedge
I'd say engineering work is work that requires an engineering degree to understand
wintry imp
Degree??
wispy cape
Unsure about that one chief
wintry imp
Do u really need one!?
mortal wedge
To get an engineering job?
wintry imp
No engineering degree to understand?
wispy cape
I'd personally say it's about having a rigorous and well defined process, using methods based on science, or that were developed using the scientific method
distant crow
here's the weird thing. I think maybe 3 years ago I'd have agreed with that. But I've just spent some time in robotics, and if you call robotics "engineering work", I'd now disagree
mortal wedge
My job title has the word "Engineer" in it and I have an engineering degree, that's how I know I'm an engineer 😄
distant crow
well. we can agree that that's one end of the spectrum that we're sure about
mortal wedge
I don't know where to draw the line, though
I would consider robotics engineering work, but haven't worked in robotics
wispy cape
there are many tools and protocols related to programming and computer science that were built using these processes, the REST architecture was born from a phd thesis, 3d graphics techniques are based on math and were just applied, now we use hardware that help us optimize these, etc
distant crow
truth be told, it's a lot easier these days that it used to be
wispy cape
and on the other end, we have people creating random libs because "i wanna have stars on github"
wintry imp
Haha
distant crow
and that's the thing about software - everything gets more accessible and high level and achievable with less experience
wispy cape
exactly, and that's why I disagree with the idea that all of programming should be put under the "engineering" umbrella
mortal wedge
I'd expect an engineer to be working with architecture and making design decisions as opposed to just coding
wispy cape
solving trello and jira tickets makes you closer to a factory worker than an engineer imo
distant crow
well, building on the work and machinery that came before is a defining feature of engineering. the fact that you don't have to mill your own screws when you make a machine is evident of this
in that respect, software development is very similar
mortal wedge
Maybe it's the difference between making tools and using tools?
wintry imp
Idk but heard ppl saying that u don't need to write much code in big tech copies most code are auto generated for u?
distant crow
no that doesn't sound right
mortal wedge
Maybe if you're a senior engineer your code is autogenerated for you by the juniors
distant crow
no, I don't think programming is any more automated at larger companies purely because of the size of the company
wispy cape
the one thing i can think of is that it's much harder to make changes to a large codebase
distant crow
they'll have better maintained toolchains and CI/CD, and libraries probably
wintry imp
I was watching this guy techlead lol
wintry imp
Ohh fair enough.
distant crow
a company I interviewed at had so much automated testing. It was beautiful
that takes a lot of time and investment to set up
startups don't tend to focus on it, it would be impractical to do so, as a result stuff takes longer to debug and buggier code is produced, and there's more technical debt. but the tradeoff is code is released sooner
and sometimes that matters
mortal wedge
Yes, but if startups don't focus on it, they eventually have to bring in an expensive specialist like me 🙂
wispy cape
Ehh, as of today, setting up CICD can be done in a few minutes, if it's done early in the development of the product
wintry imp
Sadly I'm still at the phase where I use print to debug my code instead of using high tech tool provided for me
So automated testing seems far
mortal wedge
I need to get more familiar with pycharm's toolset
I get lazy and just print to console
but they have built in debugging tools that look pretty cool if I took the time to learn
distant crow
it's not just setting up CI/CD, it's having all the environments, test data, test cases, etc. etc.
mortal wedge
Honestly, that sounds like a company that got burned in the past
and is taking the time to do it right this time around
distant crow
I think they just hired a CTO who was really good at that (maybe he got burned in the past)
wintry imp
Isn't it like nowadays all companies have ci cd implemented?
mortal wedge
Nope
wispy cape
"testing culture" is becoming more prevalent, now, we need for companies to actually implement them
distant crow
I have Jenkins set up even for personal projects because I like it tested and built on push while I get another coffee
wispy cape
same with using docker etc, it'll take time, but we're getting there eventually
distant crow
but also I hate Jenkins
mortal wedge
hah
wispy cape
but sometimes you have a dumb manager telling you "when you're testing you're not producing relevant code" blabla
distant crow
it's the devil I know. I want to switch to Gitlab at some point, but haven't had the time to look at it
distant crow
god yeah, it's like that with refactoring and technical debt as well
wispy cape
then you leave the company because the code is unmaintainable and you dread every day of the week, then they struggle with hiring people that stay for long, then the tech debt accumulates, and then they try to do a rewrite, and it stalls for 8 years, and the project gets abandoned
distant crow
"no new features this sprint!?"
mortal wedge
If I make a convincing argument to my bosses that more time needs to be spent on X they'll listen
oh god
distant crow
it is hard to explain why things being less broken matters
mortal wedge
Graphs
Use graphs
With downward trendlines
on a whiteboard
Throw buzzwords EVERYWHERE
distant crow
yes. observe this chart of goodness 📈 inversely correlates with this chart of brokenness 📉 and this is why we have to fix things
distant crow
please deliver in used notes in a briefcase
but yes... a nicely set up dev flow is more likely at larger companies, and sometimes it's nice to work with that
but then again, some people thrive in utter chaos
I'm glad both options are available to people
wintry imp
@distant crow is it hard t build a ci cd pipelines for ur personal project? If u r completely newbie in devops stuff
mortal wedge
I could probably benefit from a testing framework, but so far unit testing has worked just fine for me
Or just running the whole program hundreds of time and killing your memory of your laptop
distant crow
depends what you need it to do, and what you define as "a ci/cd" system. arguably a simple "run some tests and then deploy a docker image to a VM is ci/cd, but you can do that with a single GitHub actions file
Jenkins is frustrating to set up because of poor documentation (docs and guides are very fragmented, it's hard to find stuff), but conceptually it is not complex, just frustrating to find the info you need
wintry imp
Ye simple one
distant crow
and hosted services like CircleCI are a lot easier if your needs fit with their workflow
maybe GitHub actions is a place worth starting out. they have a free usage allowance even on free accounts
wintry imp
Oh sweet thnx def will try that one as a beginner
distant crow
just run your python tests as a start. you can get little green check marks against your PRs for example
a bit of CI/CD experience is a good skill to have on your resume
wintry imp
Oh sweet thnx for some valuable insight.also do u think ci cd is handy for someone whos pursuing data scientist field?
distant crow
not particularly
if you're into data science, you'd get more use out of learning to use some kind of workflow scheduler instead, like Apache Airflow
wintry imp
Oh sweet thnx heaps bud.
mild ruin
opal perch
Thanks Charlie, very cool!
wintry imp
Out of curiosity, how does one start their own company that provides saas services or something related to tech in general?
Aside legal formalities
Also, let's say that I already have service in mind
distant crow
aside from legal and tax formalities. make a website, add whatever payment options you need. implement SaaS. promote website and services
starting is not hard, but you'll find promoting your service is a totally different skillset to building one
wintry imp
Being an introvert i Def need to work on my marketing skills. Thnx heaps again meseta
brisk ivy
Hello all. I hope you have a great day. Can someone in the field of data science share their experience. How they started, what do they do now ect. I will really appreciate it.
frosty cove
- become software developer 2. change title to data scientist on linkedin
more seriously, I will say that data science has come to mean different things at different companies. At some, more of a math/statistical background is required and that part is more emphasized. Other companies really just want someone who can program and automate general reports and shovel data around.
sharp wind
I did a duel bachelors in computer networking and electrical engineering with a minor in CS. I liked networking and that's what I do now as a career, but I am required to program a lot in order to parse data, etc and to build reports. Being able to be given any type of data set and being able to parse it and analyze it is invaluable.
ashen elk
Anyone know if PH.D is a must for any research job in Machine Learning? Is it possible to come into research after Masters just after some job experience?
wispy cape
I'm a masters student doing computer vision, graduating in a few months, and I gotta say a fair bit of the positions I would apply to are blocked by the PhD requirements
gleaming citrus
is it possible to create our own game if we're a software engineer?
wispy cape
Probably about 1/4 or something
gleaming citrus
srry if its random
mortal wedge
Yeah, machine learning is a field where having a PhD is valuable
wispy cape
I also am not targeting academia, where a PhD is mandatory
vapid jay
anyone here is from the UK?
mortal wedge
Algorithm development often asks for PhD as well
gilded valley
anyone here is from the UK?
@vapid jay
probably
gleaming citrus
is it possible to create our own game if we're a software engineer?
@gleaming citrus
mortal wedge
Yes
wintry imp
Hmm but what if someone without can do it as better as one holding phd degree
mortal wedge
Yes it is
gilded valley
just link the reddit post
wispy cape
TL;DR, if you aim for academic research, then yes, get a phd, if you are ok with industrial or applied research, then you can get away without one
gilded valley
don't copy paste it
vapid jay
Quick introduction, I'm a CS student at St Johns college, Oxford. I don't want to beat around the bush, too much but I've talked with a lot of my peers in Oxbridge and some students studying in ivy league colleges in the States. I've heard that FAANG companies underpay their London counterparts. How true is it? I absolutely love living in London and I will miss the cultural aspect (specially football) a lot if I move over to the states. I have heard of senior software engineers(L5) and staff software engineers (L6) at Google to make 400k-500k total compensation. How are the salaries across top tier software engineering firms (Facebook, Amazon, Google, Netflix, Apple, Microsoft and the rest) in London? Can total compensation for L5 and L6 software engineers get to 200k-250k pounds total compensation in London (a bit more always helps :p)? I do understand that the figures Im quoting vary massively depending on your negotiating skill, but average figures always help. Kindly help out this lost soul.
I have checked out levels.fyi and it varies wildly between Facebook (300k gbp for E6) and SDE III for Amazon (180k gbp)
mortal wedge
rip
gleaming citrus
Yes it is
@mortal wedge but well be just programming the basics not the whole like the designing and stuff right?
wispy cape
It's extremely hard to evaluate the kind of skills you learn during when you work on your thesis in a few hours (the interviews), and it's not like you learn that on any job either @wintry imp
You can't improvise doing research
gilded valley
costs of living, and average salaries are very different between the UK and US
gleaming citrus
because that requires rather an artistic degree or smth
mortal wedge
Zona, you could do 100% of it but you could also outsource parts of it.
For example, I've been thinking of writing a game. I'd do the coding, another person I know would handle writing and someone else would handle art.
wintry imp
Silicon valley living cost will make u bankrupt lol
wispy cape
A large amount of positions in research organizations are opened for masters graduates here, but it's a lot more on the applicative side, I'm guessing if you prove your worth in such environment, you could very well end up working on the """""""""""actual""""""""""" research part, but it's not going to be an over-night process
gleaming citrus
Zona, you could do 100% of it but you could also outsource parts of it.
@mortal wedge yea but-
For example, I've been thinking of writing a game. I'd do the coding, another person I know would handle writing and someone else would handle art.
@mortal wedge exactly, its possible but somewhat hard doing it alone
mortal wedge
Sure, but the same thing applies to any major project
gleaming citrus
especially when you're not having enough experience in all of the fields
mortal wedge
That's the benefit of working on a team of specialists though.
gleaming citrus
hmm, ive been curious abt smth but anyone here is a software engineer?
That's the benefit of working on a team of specialists though.
@mortal wedge true
mortal wedge
Probably lots of software engineers
gilded valley
In terms of people who are active in this channel, I know of freelancers, SREs, and C-Suite people of small companies
wispy cape
also @wintry imp the PhD has other various benefits, for example, you need a phd to conduct research, and not any phd, research directors here have to go through a whole process, be elected etc, then you have to understand that publications are how organizations get funds, these funds are based on many factors, including the number of citations of that work, and as sad as it may sound, citations generally don't come solely from the content of the paper, if your paper has a big name in the front page, it'll get read more, shared more, cited more
wintry imp
Ohhh sounds fair enough
gleaming citrus
no offense or anything but is it true that most of your day if not the whole day is spent in front of a computer etc... i ask not only because im curious but other aswell :/ .. but its a cool job if we could manage to maintain a healthy lifestyle/social life / time for hobbies aswell...many ppl record their routines or stuff like that even if not accurate 100/ so is it true ? ..
wintry imp
Its just i probably wont get one in my life so i was just curious about it
wispy cape
Oh, and one last thing, research projects generally may start with phd theses, as these also get funds from the govt, then they may be pursued for the phd's postdoc, taken over by another person or abandoned, this is a way to clear the road in a cheap way without taking risks
wintry imp
@zona i think its more of a personal preference
mortal wedge
@gleaming citrus For me pretty much my whole day is spent in front of the computer, but I take breaks and go for short walks
wintry imp
Ohhh i c my brother is writing his thesis too i know a bit about that lol
wispy cape
good luck to him, that's a really stressful thing
gleaming citrus
@gleaming citrus For me pretty much my whole day is spent in front of the computer, but I take breaks and go for short walks
@mortal wedge ooh and what abt holidays ? sorry for asking but do you think its a healthy lifestyle?
mortal wedge
Depends highly on your company and somewhat dependent on your industry
wintry imp
Ye n here im a dropout hahah
gleaming citrus
@zona i think its more of a personal preference
@wintry imp what is ?..srry i didnt really get you
wispy cape
and yeah, I also am amongst those who spend all their time on a chair in front of a computer
mortal wedge
I really love the work so I'm terrible at giving myself healthy boundaries, but it's not really comping from my boss it's coming from myself.
wispy cape
whether it's because i'm (pretending to be) working or in a (boring) meeting
mortal wedge
I still get holidays and stuff off unless I feel like working on them
gleaming citrus
I still get holidays and stuff off unless I feel like working on them
@mortal wedge oh ok
wintry imp
Like sitting on chair all day
gleaming citrus
thank you
mortal wedge
No problem, happy to help
gleaming citrus
Like sitting on chair all day
@wintry imp yeah its not really healthy for me or rather...um it unmotivates me kinda?
wispy cape
it definitely doesn't fit everyone
my coworkers who don't work on computers are baffled at how i and the rest of us do it
narrow magnet
@mortal wedge yo, what engine you gonna game dev in? I just got done with a game dev related degree and can do art
mortal wedge
I used to love gaming on my laptop in my freetime. Now I often don't want to be near a computer in my freetime
gleaming citrus
No problem, happy to help
@mortal wedge in your company or in general, is it true that its mostly men ? because some sources of mine...
mortal wedge
Still trying to determine, SkullBear
It's getting better, but it's still male dominated
narrow magnet
what language do you prefer, c++ or C#
mortal wedge
C++. I've only ever touched one project in C#.
narrow magnet
then Unreal engine is your engine
mortal wedge
I will look into it, ty
narrow magnet
PM me if you wanna talk more about game dev
wispy cape
I don't think you're gonna get a useful answer about the impact of gender on work on a platform such as discord tbh
gleaming citrus
because ive never hearde of an engeneer in software that happens to be a woman
gleaming citrus
yet again i can be the one at fault
because ive never hearde of an engeneer in software that happens to be a woman
@gleaming citrus wait that sounded wrong, i meant one that got popular with her project
or smth like that i mean of course there are coworkers of all genders fortunately
but
mortal wedge
The field is biased against women and it sucks
wispy cape
you probably didn't look enough, it's just that "superstars" in CS tend to be fairly rare
and yes, realistically there are a lot more men than women
wintry imp
Wait wasnt first programmer lady alva somethjng
wispy cape
but like, how many computer scientists from the modern era do you actually know, and how many of them are actually famous because of their work and not because they are active on twitter or w/e
gleaming citrus
like: 1 woman and 8 men in this field that was what i meant thats why i asked abt the lifestyle and stuff and some ppl say its becuz you wont have time to even recognize yourself or your appearance, ofc all of that is just nonsense
wispy cape
ada lovelace, yes
wintry imp
Haha
gleaming citrus
Wait wasnt first programmer lady alva somethjng
@wintry imp idk but thats cool then
digital fjord
There is the lady who wrote a lot of apollo code and more (there is a surprising amount, cs people just don't really get famous unless they are a public figure), but ye, male dominated (hopefully) for now.
gleaming citrus
but like, how many computer scientists from the modern era do you actually know, and how many of them are actually famous because of their work and not because they are active on twitter or w/e
@wispy cape yeah not much ngl
digital fjord
If you search for programming talks online, many are female presented
mortal wedge
@digital fjord I was about to get mad at you but I think I just misunderstood what (hopefully) was referencing
wintry imp
And i forget her name but some chick name came up with all blackhole thingy too ??
distant crow
Zona, plenty of software engineers do game dev. In fact, too many, it's actually a very competitive space, and also underpaid compared to other software jobs for the same level of experience. A mid-level game dev gets paid the same as a junior software dev elsewhere; a senior game dev gets paid the same as a mid-level software dev elsewhere. If you're interested in that, there are several discord servers geared towards game dev - in particular GDL (game dev league), GDN (game dev network), and the game engine-specific servers like Unity, Godot, and Gamemaker
digital fjord
Hopefully for now, not hopefully male dominated
wispy cape
yes, katie bouman
mortal wedge
Yeah, I figured 😛
digital fjord
That was not an ideal place to put those parens
wispy cape
again, it's really unfair to say X invented something
gleaming citrus
Zona, plenty of software engineers do game dev. In fact, too many, it's actually a very competitive space, and also underpaid compared to other software jobs for the same level of experience. A mid-level game dev gets paid the same as a junior software dev elsewhere; a senior game dev gets paid the same as a mid-level software dev elsewhere. If you're interested in that, there are several discord servers geared towards game dev - in particular GDL (game dev league), GDN (game dev network), and the game engine-specific servers like Unity, Godot, and Gamemaker
@distant crow oh i see thank you
wintry imp
N the other chick too for sending first rocket in space
wispy cape
She was important in the research that lead to that, don't get me wrong, but absolutely no big project are done by a single person
wintry imp
Ye true
wispy cape
Most people (men and women) are just invisible
gleaming citrus
She was important in the research that lead to that, don't get me wrong, but absolutely no big project are done by a single person
@wispy cape in some way teamwork may be primordial
wispy cape
s/may/is
gleaming citrus
haha
wintry imp
Like mark zuker stole his teams code
edgy laurel
is there any job in india for 14 year old programmers?
wintry imp
No
gleaming citrus
i dont think so
wintry imp
Even if im nit from india
gleaming citrus
its worldwide known that minors dont work i guess
frosty cove
Go to school
gleaming citrus
unless-
gleaming citrus
its worldwide known that minors dont work i guess
@gleaming citrus ahem
distant crow
stay in school, keep programming in your spare time, but also socialize
wintry imp
As far as i know india has lots of talented ppl who are jobless compared to 14 yrs old kid. Im not trying to demotivate u, but u can still try freelance n prove thme ur worth
edgy laurel
i code in an 8 year old computer, is there any way to earn?
distant crow
a lot of programming is fine on an 8 year old computer
gleaming citrus
i code in an 8 year old computer, is there any way to earn?
@edgy laurel do you need to get a job asap?
distant crow
2012 computers are like 3rd gen core i3/i5, which are plenty good still for most dev work that isn't data processing
wintry imp
Bruh u can get like better comp in 100 bucks than 8 yr old comp
edgy laurel
ive made a qr generator for my dads busniess, which ive sold for 500 rupees, which is less than 9 dollars
distant crow
good work
wintry imp
Its better than nothing
edgy laurel
i sold it for less than 9 dollars tho
distant crow
that's 9 dollars more than I ever made before the age of 17
gleaming citrus
haha
wintry imp
Well
edgy laurel
he says of i add a database, hell give me 7 dollars more
wintry imp
Tell him to go .... himself
gleaming citrus
@distant crow do you love what you do?
edgy laurel
but im gonna monthly charge him
craggy elm
if you live with your parents, then you should factor in the potential savings it gives your dad since you cost him money by living with him
wintry imp
Ye but the thing is ur learning form it
distant crow
complex question. I love the outcome of what I do, but there are good moments and bad
edgy laurel
subscription is the future
edgy laurel
thanks man
craggy elm
eh, subscription can be a bit garbage from a consumer standpoint depending on the product
edgy laurel
im working on a finance calculator app
wintry imp
Lol
wintry imp
No idea with pyqt
edgy laurel
tkinter?
digital fjord
Kivy is designed to run on mobile, but I have seen qt work too.
Well, I got a button to show up
edgy laurel
cuz i suck at OOP
ashen elk
Well, I got that PH.d is a pretty clear way for research. But what if a person has an excellent publication record in their Masters and Bachelors? will that consider them for a corporate research job?
wispy cape
of course
as i said it's not all black and white, especially if you go into private research
also, make sure what I said and the other infos you get online are relevant to your country
cyan palm
wispy cape
same as if you have a degree, you keep applying, making a better portfolio or w/e, train for interviews etc
wispy cape
if you count doing programming as a hobby once you retire from your surgeon job, then maybe
otherwise, no
(in case that wasn't sarcasm)
distant crow
you could program for a job and become a hobby surgeon
opal perch
that's definitely a meme ^^
distant crow
yeah, I don't imagine being surgeon leaves you with much time
although, I do know of doctors who've later on started companies involved in biomedical engineering, and that's where there's programming involved. but honestly, the massive amount of training you need to do to become a surgeon, it does not make sense at all if you weren't interested in being a surgeon, and wanted to do programming instead
opal perch
not sure about that, I know quite a few surgeons that work like 4-5 hours a day at most, and then just relax the rest of the time.
But I doubt any company would allow you to work while being a surgeon, purely because they'll be to blame if you aren't rested enough
distant crow
that's a weird combination
opal perch
yea that's what Ithought, like you spend half your life becoming a surgeon, why would you not go into being a surgeon, and try and become a programmer
distant crow
there's one combination that might work: robotic surgery
opal perch
was thinking the same, and while extremely niche, it's already a field that's starting to kick off
distant crow
I think you'd go into biomedical engineering and robotics
or, be the surgeon who consults with a company making those robots
mortal wedge
Yeah, you could be a consultant
opal perch
I feel like consultancy is such a good way to make solid money
sweet shore
it is ... if you can keep the jobs coming ... and that is 95% of consultancy
and using freelancer boards are no good because there are 1000000 people out there that just learned XYZ thing that bid $5
but once you make a name, and get a client base, it's not bad money
distant crow
it probably works better if you can take advantage of exchange rates and work remotely for a US company
shadow moss
most consultants I know who make bank are not great at tech stuff
but just awesome at interpersonal skills and bullshit
random shuttle
hmm in a previous company where I worked there were some consultant paid a lot who were technically very good
(I am not a consultant myself so it's not an ad ;))
mortal wedge
The general idea is that you hire a consultant who's better than average in a field in order to guide development /help for a single project
random shuttle
Totally incompetent blabla bullshit top paid consultant are rather like team diversity wellness coaching blabla bullshit fuck me to death
admittedly there were two who were very incompetent, one who could do nothing, always asked for help because couldn't manage anything, and another one who could only manage Jira tickets
but the others were good to very good in their fields
I rather have the impression that consultants come in groups
"help help houston we are crashing a huge project in big style, do whatever it takes to prevent the huge catastrophe" => huge budhet line => 10 consultant at once
and then you have a few in them who manage to sneak in though incompetent, but they are more the exception than the rul in my experience
hollow igloo
How long should you stay at a company before you switch jobs? I am not feeling my current job, but I just started there in March. I don't want to ditch and leave and have that look bad.
mortal wedge
I'd say at the very least 6 months, ideally a year
hollow igloo
Bummer...but I was expecting that.
rugged oxide
Hi everyone, I got there only recently, just wanted to ask what would you suggest as best resource(s) to learn Python from scratch? I did read about several ones but wanted to know opinion of experienced people in the business. (Sorry if I'm putting it in wrong threat).
gilded valley
@vapid jay you asked about salary of FAANG vs Investment banking. Investment banking smashes tech out of the water in terms of total remuneration assuming you're good at it - but it's very much performance driven
opal perch
Is that true? I'm not sure that's true
gilded valley
remuneration in investment is directly tied to your performance
vapid jay
If my sole purpose is making money, should I go down the investment banking route or software developer route
I dont mind 80-90 hour work weeks
opal perch
you will when you're burnt out at 30
opal perch
Either of those will make good money
vapid jay
do faang companies pay more than investment banks?
opal perch
purely based on performance, investment banking does probably make more money
opal perch
FAANG companies pay a lot. But I doubt any company will consistently pay for your over hours
vapid jay
Also, Charlie is ur answer UK based? I know devs make a lot less in the uk
shadow moss
Best investment banker probably beats the pants off any Software Dev
opal perch
Investment bankers base salary will be lower than faang by a lot
shadow moss
sure, but L5 SWE is senior level few hit
opal perch
but its all their bonuses and commissions and shit like that, that makes them the money
vapid jay
I think 15% do
gilded valley
equivalent investment professional will be blowing that out of the water
shadow moss
if you truly cream of the crop in both investment banking and Software engineering, investment banker > software engineer, if you are just average at both, then probably SWE > investment banker
opal perch
millions
gilded valley
That's not information that's generally made public
opal perch
but also depends on what you do
Man it really depends what you do with investment bankîng
there is so much
vapid jay
Ohh okay. And hows the scene location wise?
for example, to make more in CS
it is absolutely must for me to move to US
opal perch
Go silicon valley with a phd, your starting salary will be like 250k+
vapid jay
How is the scenario for investment banking?
Why tf will u want a phd
I know many at faang who dont have an ms
opal perch
more interesting work and faang companies will suck your dick
shadow moss
if you have PhD in certain fields, Silicon valley will snag you for R&D
gilded valley
The way to make money in CS doesn't really require you to be good at CS
vapid jay
I think experience > degree
shadow moss
again, this is all 1% we are talking about
vapid jay
yeah management skills
opal perch
Bro
shadow moss
are you in the 1%?
vapid jay
I mean im at oxford, idk if im at 1%
shadow moss
freshman at Oxford?
opal perch
you want to make money? get good with people, that's literally it. you don't need to be a god at programming or investment banking, just know how to work with people
vapid jay
Nope, second year
gilded valley
if experience > grades - then why aren't you doing an internship right now?
vapid jay
I learnt it the hard way
shadow moss
second year but have to come ask us scrubs for advice, doubting the 1% 
gilded valley
so given that your worldview shifted a bunch between now and 9 months ago
opal perch
because he's oxford mate, he don't need that internship crap
opal perch
bro, there are tech capitals all of over the world. And there are investment banking capitals all over the world
opal perch
no one will pay you for your 90 hours, they'll take your free work and tell you to f off when you ask for compensation
gilded valley
yeah Bon Jovi
opal perch
you realise its all relative right?
vapid jay
google that too
gilded valley
you're swiss and from that city? What does that mean? Are zu rich?
vapid jay
@gilded valley
gilded valley
bro, there are tech capitals all of over the world. And there are investment banking capitals all over the world
that says nothing about salary mate
not sure why you have such a hard on for them
opal perch
250k in sillicon valley really isn't that much once you take into account living costs, but like 60k in london is basically the same as 250k in sillicon valley
vapid jay
*central london
xD
800k-900k homes is the median for central i think
considering its 650k-700k for just london
that too in pounds
opal perch
why live in central london?
vapid jay
public transport is expensive
gilded valley
practically no one lives in central london
vapid jay
in london
gilded valley
or wants to or needs to
vapid jay
you are taking into account longer commute
public transport is 2x here in london i think, than in the us
im not sure
opal perch
Its like living in central zurich? why tho? go 30 minutes train away and you are suddenly paying 12% taxes instead of 30%, and your housing is cheaper and its quieter
vapid jay
but i did check something similar
gilded valley
commute from outside of london into The City can be ~40m
commute fron inside London to The City can be ~60m
opal perch
Bro, if you're 2nd year OXFORD; why are you not doing an internship?
genuinely, please tell me
gilded valley
you don't say
vapid jay
I think i wrote about it here
Im currently working on a new project too
startups have a lot of potential...and they account for some experience too
opal perch
True but if you really cared about money
you would have applied to the big name companies for internships
because those internships lead to high paying grad jobs
opal perch
and when you're earning 65k straight out of uni
vapid jay
But thats okay, just assume i made the wrong choice then
modest panther
yeah\
opal perch
Bro, the only thing oxford you are, is oxford brookes, now get off your high horse
modest panther
startups are better.
vapid jay
I never bragged about anything
modest panther
I agree he didn't..
vapid jay
You guys asked if i would want to target the cream of the crop
so yeah, i can put the dedication
and i have a reasonable shot
its not like im dumb
modest panther
The dedication is 80+ hour work weeks though to make 100k+ in your first year.
gilded valley
an internship at google is the easiest path to get into Silicon Valley
modest panther
Specifically in a global recession
opal perch
100k where buckler?
modest panther
obviously in a startup
opal perch
Where
distant crow
80+ hour work weeks is ok for a while, but eventually you're like "actually I'm good thanks, I'd like hobbies now"
gilded valley
I know of people who have gone form UK --> Silicon Valley via an internship
opal perch
not what company
modest panther
Obviously I am not going to give the industry i work for.. It's not consumer facing.
opal perch
I know people who were doing a masters, got offered a job at google at any hq in the world, and didn't even finish that masters as a result
vapid jay
Yeah
modest panther
Competitive advantages are meant to be protected
gilded valley
US
modest panther
you didnt.
opal perch
yes I did
modest panther
you said where lol
opal perch
wow, its not like where means location right?
gilded valley
where:
in or to what place or position.
opal perch
well pay is relative like I've said before haha
modest panther
I thought industry wise.
vapid jay
Faang companies
distant crow
you're also missing a question about income tax
opal perch
no that would be, what industry
modest panther
yeah there are low salaries in those companies too
opal perch
yea so 250k salary really isnt a lot then?
distant crow
have you checked UK's income tax
modest panther
not everyone gets that..
vapid jay
yeah
opal perch
buckler you still never answered where you're getting 100k straight out of uni, what country/city
vapid jay
drugs out of uni
opal perch
bro you needed a take home calculator and you're at oxford? That's mental arithmetic mate
modest panther
Dang man.. bon jovi your very stressful.
opal perch
brah whats 50% of 100k, hmmm, let me pull out a take home calculator
vapid jay
57% actually
distant crow
if you've checked UK income tax, why are you saying california's income tax is high? it's high relative to the rest of the US, but it's much lower than the UK
opal perch
you guys just ignore every single comment
gilded valley
leave Bon Jovi alone - it's just because he's Swiss
vapid jay
if you are looking at exact numbers
modest panther
I said in a startup it doesnt require location.
opal perch
its because I'm not at oxford and i know more than oxford guy and his best mate buckler
vapid jay
Lol
modest panther
I think anyone can make a simple subscription app for 1$ net revenue and sell to 100k people.
vapid jay
Looks like some snobby oxbridge dudes pissed you off
modest panther
over the course of the year obviously..
modest panther
Haha, he just didnt get accepted there.
vapid jay
so what?
opal perch
I'm dont stereotype everyone
gilded valley
I don't think he's stereotyping everyone
vapid jay
many engineers at google dont have cs degrees
gilded valley
just the two of you
vapid jay
they got bootcamps
gilded valley
yes
modest panther
not really lol
gilded valley
very true
vapid jay
I think some algoexpert dude
opal perch
I'm literally working with interns from oxford right now, super chill people
vapid jay
clement something
distant crow
can you guys stop arguing about whose education is more expensive than the other in the #career-advice channel
modest panther
haha
modest panther
My point was the only way your getting over 80k a year is with high luck or startup
vapid jay
will i be able to make 200k-300k in london?
opal perch
No its not a must xD
modest panther
200k 300k requires some sort of sales.
opal perch
not impossible
but like I said earlier, 250k in sillicon valley is like 70k in london
vapid jay
LOL
modest panther
yep
opal perch
no its not
vapid jay
Dude
modest panther
he is making a point
opal perch
oof, ok brookes it is
modest panther
maxwell.. hes not being exact with the number
modest panther
there are tremendous inflation and indirect estate taxes in states like massachusetts/california/ny
vapid jay
Rent is 20k/year in a good part of london
modest panther
exactly thats pretty cheap
modest panther
3k a month is san fran
vapid jay
20k gbp actually
opal perch
ok, that means you have 40k to chill, if you're paying 40k rent in sillicon valley, then travel costs, then health insurance, then tax, you're left with like the same amount
opal perch
Bro you need to learn, salaries really arent everything
modest panther
in massachusetts they charge tax on having a car
distant crow
when I was in SF, I rented out in the Sunset, and took muni 45 minutes to work a day to get reasonable rent
modest panther
every year
vapid jay
also, faang companies pay fr health insurance
modest panther
most companies in the US have great health insurance
gilded valley
Rent is 20k/year in a good part of london
@vapid jay
You don't need to live in London. You can easily live outside and have 40 minute commutes
modest panther
just get the premium
gilded valley
people live with commutes up to 2 hours
vapid jay
Lmao
opal perch
You're still missing the point max, 250k in sillicon really isnt that much more than 70k in london
modest panther
only doing that if i get autodrive on tesla
vapid jay
This is the first time i m hearing that no offence @gilded valley
modest panther
250k is not realistic in US
gilded valley
that's because you live in a bubble of Reddit and morons on the internet
vapid jay
Lmao you need to live in london mate
opal perch
literally everyone is telling you max that 250k isn't a lot in california
modest panther
in the US people do commute 2 hours
distant crow
is that one way or both ways?
modest panther
it isnt alot..
but its not what people get paid. only people getting paid 250k fill out the surveys
vapid jay
70 k in london is way less than 250k in silicon valley
opal perch
bro is this an oxford trait or something? thinking you know mroe than everyone else who is literally agreeing on the same point?
modest panther
there are alot of people living out their car
gilded valley
no - it's not an oxford trait
vapid jay
i think i have talked to a lot of people
gilded valley
most of the oxford people I know are alright
vapid jay
and they all would agree
modest panther
most non-coders lol
vapid jay
Wait i found something
vapid jay
40 min and 1 hour
gilded valley
so
vapid jay
both
vapid jay
360 is included in commute?
modest panther
gilded valley
my commute is 90 minutes
modest panther
1 bedroom apartments 2k+
vapid jay
LMAO
modest panther
i pay 840 usd a month
vapid jay
so how's 90?
vapid jay
so how much in commute?
gilded valley
~£700/m
but
it's not maximised because it's short term
i'm not sure how much it would be if it wasn't for that
vapid jay
700/mo, facepalm
So is it worth moving to silicon valley for faang companies or I can stay in the UK?
opal perch
bro, go sillicon valley, work 70 hours a week, only get paid max 50, burn out, and then realise 250k really isnt that much
vapid jay
i mean i'd take a cut in pay
opal perch
enough said ^^
vapid jay
I mean I'd really want to stay in london
opal perch
you'll earn the same salaries in zurich, and taxes are over half as much
modest panther
i feel like in the US there are more incentives
modest panther
Maxwell for electrical engineering jobs
opal perch
no I know plenty of software devs in zurich earning over 160k
modest panther
The US is great actually..
100k not that hard to get after 3-5 years
heck my brother has no degree and he makes 80k
software developers have to compete worldwide
whereas physical science engineering requires being there.
gilded valley
100kusd is feasible to be earning 5 years into a UK software career
vapid jay
engineers make a lot less in uk
modest panther
by feasible I mean 80-90% chance
in physical sciences though.
Sales engineer start off with 70k in Palm beach florida
I had a woman hound me for a month about the job
vapid jay
Hows the scene for investment bankers in the US?
the top 1%?
do they make in millions?
modest panther
So there are few jobs but high pay
it depends which firm
rentec is a great firm for millionaire employees
public corporations not so much
modest panther
for this it depends; because private equity firms require more negotiation.
shadow moss
Why focus on 1%?
modest panther
In all likelihood your not in 1%
modest panther
your worrying about this in college. whereas there are 14 year olds that already mastered financial mathematics and python
vapid jay
Yeah but I can put in the effort
modest panther
they can get a 80k actuarial science job at 18 years old
modest panther
your scared to learn to code though..
to be honest python doesnt even make you a software engineer
modest panther
Well. every contract is different
vapid jay
are faang employees in the top 1 percent?
modest panther
no way.. top 1 percent would be a mark zuckerberg /bill gates
millionaire out of college
vapid jay
Lol you're such a troll
modest panther
?
vapid jay
you're in some other world
modest panther
This world is the one where veryone uses windows and facebook
vapid jay
top 1 percent is 420k
mortal wedge
buckler just doesn't know what they're talking about, I'd ignore them
modest panther
your saying non-entrepreneurial?
vapid jay
420k family income is at top 1 percent income in the us
opal perch
neither does max, so just ignore him
vapid jay
if 2 persons work in the family
modest panther
hes asking for information..
vapid jay
Yeah i dont know shit, im just asking for information
modest panther
I may be wrong in the constraints of what your trying to figure out..
I wouldn't work 80 hour workweeks without equity incentives.
vapid jay
are you talking about top 1 percent in silicon valley?
im asking top 1 percent in the us
modest panther
do you mean top 1 percent entry level or income in general?
vapid jay
Income
vapid jay
if you dont mind me asking, how old are you @modest panther ?
modest panther
im 25\
vapid jay
Hmm
modest panther
vapid jay
Okay, looks like im dumb instead. I didnt make my question clear enough
yeah i said top 1 percent in the us
you are considering only big cities
so we are not comparing similar standards sorry
modest panther
no.. in the US you have the city you are looking for..
im not going to prepare a dashboard for you right now lmao
Im working too 😄
785k 1% in san fran
vapid jay
Okay so let me make my question more clear
modest panther
964k san jose.
vapid jay
Im sorry for your time, your majesty
maybe you find in your kind heart to forgive this soul
modest panther
😄
modest panther
no offense at all lol its almost 5 and I am still waiting for people's emails
vapid jay
What is the IB equivalent of L3/L4 in google?
modest panther
looking it up now sir!
I work for a public equity company based out of France..
trying to stay anonymous here.
wind hinge
guys is there anyone exp with freelancer??
modest panther
How do you mean Ara?
wind hinge
like have worked there for long
vapid jay
Ultimate CHaos can you help me out?
mortal wedge
What's your question Ara?
vapid jay
i have been struggling for answers
wind hinge
i have one question, if i wrote in proposal that i will finish job in 4 days, after accepting job is it counting immediately, as client told me to wait, he will tell me when to work
modest panther
Not every job is the same Max, there are temporal aspects to the labor market. I recommend just adding 5k to whatever the recruiter offers.
vapid jay
I would want to know if faang companies beat IB when it comes to salaries?
modest panther
I don't think thats how you should think of it..
modest panther
you should be working at what you are best at and enjoy..
wind hinge
that is my first project there and i dont want to screw iy
distant crow
interesting, it would be unreasonable if they didn't give you the information you needed to do the task, but the clock was counting down
but... some people are unreasonable
distant crow
maybe you should let them know by email firmly "as you have not given me the information necessary to do this work, we will not start the clock until you do"
vapid jay
Just an estimate
distant crow
and then next time you do a contract, make sure it specifies when the start date is
mortal wedge
It generally is in the contract, but if they told you to wait then 🤷♀️ Doesn't sound like they expect you to start yet
vapid jay
im not asking you to quote numbers
modest panther
wind hinge
wait so time is going??? @distant crow
mortal wedge
@vapid jay What's IB in this context?
modest panther
investment banking
mortal wedge
Gotcha
distant crow
no, I'm saying it shouldn't be
wind hinge
ooh okay, thanks
modest panther
there are no true buy side investment bankers anymore though in the US
distant crow
but there's no guarantees that someone won't be unreasonable, so the best thing to do here is keep clear communications, and records of communicatios
modest panther
there are mostly quants and paper pushers
vapid jay
Can i break into IB later from software engineering?
wind hinge
i mean that job is really big and i am doing it for small amount of money, wouldnt like it to screw my future there
mortal wedge
It's normal for junior engineers in FAANG to make 200k+
vapid jay
i think i would be able too
distant crow
so just in case there's a problem, you have records to prove that you've done all the right and reasonable things
mortal wedge
Which is kind of bonkers, tbh
modest panther
we cant answer that with honesty because we dont work in that field
mortal wedge
For junior you're probably looking somewhere between 100-200k based on linkedin
For junior
distant crow
yeah, good luck to you, but just remember: clear communications, keep records. Ideally written ones. If you have to do a phonecall, always summarize it and email it afterwards so nobody can say "wait I didn't say that" to you
modest panther
depends on how many clients they bring in too
modest panther
for example I kept Marriott as a client in my company during the pandemic and I got a bonus
wind hinge
but i accepted job
distant crow
good good, that should be fine
wind hinge
thanks 😄
distant crow
can't see how they can start the clock if they literally told you not to start
so it sounds fine. But keep a record of that message anyway
vapid jay
L5 equivalent in IB that is
wind hinge
yea io have ss ofc xD
vapid jay
@mortal wedge
for senior positions
it is 400k-500k in faang for the top 15 percent within the faang engineers
i think? so how are the numbers for IB?
mortal wedge
I think it depends on bank. Most banks will not be able to top FAANG
vapid jay
the top tier ones?
mortal wedge
Then you could make 400k+
vapid jay
since faang is top tier, so you would need to compare similars
mortal wedge
Right
vapid jay
So its more or less the same?
modest panther
some hedge funds and private equity firms have just as much compensation in fintech.
vapid jay
I thought IB would be more but ty
mortal wedge
np
mortal wedge
If you specialized in fintech, sure
vapid jay
Im 19, in uni atm
im getting a BEng+MEng
4 yrs in the UK
so if i get an mba after that from the US?
modest panther
Thats what most people do..
distant crow
so you're getting a general engineering degree that doesn't actually focus on CS at all?