Oh
#career-advice
marsh wind
mortal wedge
Salary definitely goes a long way to making someone happy 🙂
shadow moss
he wanted to get me on as their sysadmin, couldn't they flat out rejected me due to my lack of Bachelors
gilded valley
so small+succesful companies can easily demand PHD
@shadow moss that's very surprising that they want masters even for that kind of position
marsh wind
Biomedical yeah I can imagine
shadow moss
Bachelor is acceptable for sysadmin
gilded valley
oh
shadow moss
master/PhD for data division
gilded valley
lack of
marsh wind
Especially if they ain't huge
gilded valley
yeah, I misread
shadow moss
but their sysadmin had a masters
mortal wedge
Rabbit, have you ever considered going back for your bachelors?
gilded valley
that's dumb, but not surprising
shadow moss
it's one of those companies since they need crazy educated in one division, they basically require it in all division
mortal wedge
I guess they want to stop people from getting into the company and then all trying to switch
gilded valley
hedge fund type firms can afford that as well
marsh wind
Tbh I am sure he can get away with his work experience just fine avoiding those types of companies
shadow moss
I'm not hurting
marsh wind
Yeah i been contacted by some recruiters for hedge funds and quants
gilded valley
do you just not want to work in finance?
shadow moss
but my friend was hired to shake some stuff up, their models were older and they were not doing as well
mortal wedge
Fintech is all about like... cutting edge extreme optimization of their algorithms
gilded valley
company I'm at now for my internship seems surprisingly chill in terms of data science positions
shadow moss
part of it was they were very on premise focused and they couldn't keep up with other firms processing data via cloud
mortal wedge
So it makes sense why they would want highly specialized people
specialized/qualified
shadow moss
so my friend who was rising star was like "Rabbit is Azure SRE, he could probably help us with our cloud migration"
marsh wind
Chill in what way?
mortal wedge
Gotta buy and sell those stocks one nanosecond faster than the other guy!
shadow moss
they sounded interested, got my resume, saw no bachelors and was like "We can't hire this guy"
gilded valley
no one is working 80hr weeks, people are friendly with each other, no one gets just screamed at in front of everyone else
shadow moss
Ultimate, no, this stock based on these data points will hit 57 USD before it's overpriced
mortal wedge
Haha, that's a pretty low bar for chill, but glad you found a company like that
gilded valley
speaking to people on the team, that is not the standard for other similar firms
marsh wind
Oh. Well that's normal no? xD
mortal wedge
Not necessarily
A lot of SWE jobs have really short dev cycles
So you're working absurd hours a week on crunch times
marsh wind
Well he mentioned data science and not swe for once.
mortal wedge
Oh whoops
marsh wind
But I guess it all depend on culture
mortal wedge
Yeah, a lot of it depends on culture
marsh wind
Like work culture in company
gilded valley
Well - this is for data science at a City of London firm. Quants and finance renowned for being potentially miserable things
marsh wind
Yeah one reason I didn't push to get theret
Like in here since we went back to office I only few times would check sny work things at home
But while we were remote my work schedule was totally fucked up
crude crown
remote work has a tendency to do that if you're not disciplined.
mortal wedge
Yeah
Remote worker here
It's both great and not
Mostly great tbh. My commute time is 3 seconds
gilded valley
blend of remote/in-office seems to be the sweetspot
crude crown
You know, I used to think like that
marsh wind
This ^
After remote on boarding and 2 months like that I would love to have flexibility in that regard
crude crown
but now I think I would just prefer having remote all the time.
even considering its problems
marsh wind
I enjoy the ability to have face to face discussions and just communicate with people live
crude crown
video conferencing is quite close on that and, for me, it bridges that gap well.
mortal wedge
I love that I can reach down and scratch my butt whenever I want
marsh wind
😂
crude crown
for me it's a matter of survival mostly
mortal wedge
That has a monetary value 😄
crude crown
considering that I have tinnitus
mortal wedge
I mean, especially during coronavirus, work remote is a godsend
crude crown
and I should avoid headphones as much as possible.
which I really needed to use in open offices in order to get some goddamn isolation from the ruckus all around me.
mortal wedge
That sucks
crude crown
my tinnitus showed up at mid February this year
mortal wedge
remote ftw then
marsh wind
For sure. But efficient remote requires high degree of self discipline and as little other distractions too, like kids, pets etc
crude crown
just a bit before hell broke lose with COVID
and everyone started WFH
one hell of a timing.
mortal wedge
Yes, I have to ignore my bed and nintendo DS as hard as I can 😄
gilded valley
I know some people rent office space to work from - I wonder if that's a solution
crude crown
might work... personally I've been working out of my bedroom and other divisions in the past few months
gilded valley
I've been doing remote work for a week - and I already despise my bedroom
mortal wedge
Haha
mortal wedge
I have separate relaxation area, bed area, and work area in my bedroom
I do my best not to mix activities/areas
crude crown
that's a very good idea
establishing routines and establishing "key areas" for working/focusing are important.
marsh wind
I guess if I would work in open space office I would have different opinion on how it compares with WFH
mortal wedge
Human beings are social creatures, we need some social interaction. If you can fulfill that need outside of work, WFH is great imo.
vapid jay
I love that I can reach down and scratch my butt whenever I want
@mortal wedge who says you can't do that in person
mortal wedge
rofl
vapid jay
I genuinely hate open office spaces
mortal wedge
Also, WFH means pants only if you want to 🙂
distant crow
I haven't worn any pants for 4 months
mortal wedge
Nice
marsh wind
This convo is quickly straying into something very OT lol
mortal wedge
The reason people wear pants is so we don't have to see eachother's Pythons
Yes
Especially if they're relevant to the position you're applying for
gilded valley
you don't want to list everything under the sun, keep it somewhat targeted and grouped
mortal wedge
Being familiar with a team's tools before joining the team is a huge boon
gilded valley
no, probably not
mortal wedge
yeah, no on the venv
venv is more of a concept than an industry tool
a concept you have to implement, but still
marsh wind
Pycharm not sure too imo 🤷♂️
gilded valley
that's a good point. Some in the industry look down on IDEs, there's no real advantage to listing that
mortal wedge
They might just ask that in an interview, I guess
"Hey our team uses PyCharm, are you familiar with it"
gilded valley
I'd be surprised if that was standardised at most teams. An IDE for python isn't near as necessary as it is for something like Java
mortal wedge
That's fair. It's a lot more important for embedded or other C applications
crude crown
libraries (in case you know them well) is fair game
mortal wedge
^
crude crown
IDEs isn't necessary, it's just fluff
gilded valley
Especially as Pycharm is just a relatively thin layer around a bunch of standard python ecosystem bits and bobs
mortal wedge
If the job description lists it, put it on your resume
gilded valley
yeah, match the job description as much as possible
crude crown
That's usually a good rule of thumb to follow
albeit, you might not want to simply lie in case there's something in the job posting you've never used before.
marsh wind
never saw pycharm in job listing 🤷♂️
mortal wedge
If it's in the job posting AND your resume they'll probably ask you about it
So make sure you can pull SOMETHING out of your ass
only figuratively
crude crown
yeah, most definitely
and pull something LEGIT, don't just fumble and bullshit it (at least with tech people)
marsh wind
tkinter/pygame imo yes, list it, especially if it is some app dev or even web dev.
mortal wedge
If you're applying to a job you really want, cater your resume to the posting
Imo it's good practice to do that with every job, unless you really just don't give a shit with some
gilded valley
I don't think I'd list either. They don't seem like the kind of libs that are going to be relevant to most jobs. I'd just put Python GUI programming or some such
marsh wind
also, if you don't have too much too list, just reorder your tools in order of knowledge/important for job listing
or highlight them somehow otherwise (relevant ones I mean)
iron crystal
hello everyone , i need some help and advice, i dont know anything about code, but i really wannaa lean how to code, could you guys advise me as to how i should start learning?
vapid jay
The best way to learn Coding is to start impossible projects. U will never finish them but learn a lot while working on them.
distant crow
too real
white karma
That’s some pretty sound advice as long as you go in expecting not to finish them
mortal wedge
Just don't pick up depression along the way
delicate axle
@iron crystal you could take a class at your local community college?
inner wrenBOT
mortal wedge
There's some good guides there
vapid jay
that's a good point. Some in the industry look down on IDEs, there's no real advantage to listing that
@gilded valley they do?
storm nest
So how did some of you start your career, did you go to traditional education or did you just use online resources?
mortal wedge
A bit of both
I got a degree in something only tangentially related to programming, learned a lot online during the lockdown
brazen whale
So I accepted a job for developing automation tests and I'm not sure if I'm prepared for it. I have done several courses and done multiple tasks in coding websites, but still not sure what exactly I need for these automated tests, does anyone have a better idea of what I should expect?
vapid jay
doesnt unittest have test automation capabilities?
like im quite sure writing assert statements is a form of test automation
cuz ur not manually checking if the result is the expected value
brazen whale
Oh okay, I'm just not sure because the job is in a position where I need to check hardware, and make sure it works under certain conditions... So I wasn't sure...
vapid jay
is ur entry lvl?
cuz im quite sure entry lvl is just running a test that someone else designed and logging it
like if ur actually gonna be designing tests that gonna be a different story
brazen whale
But it does make sense... Yeah, there is a working software, but I was told my first task would be to write a "description library" which I'm not sure what it means
brazen whale
So I should be focusing on unittest, right? And focus on edge cases where the software might fail
brazen whale
Haha yeah, I'm not sure either... But there will be some trainings, so hopefully I will get the chance to prepare for what I will actually need to do
vapid jay
i dont actually have experience with designing tests on corporate lvl
i think it might involve regression and integration tests too
idk the job description lol
brazen whale
Yeah, the job description is not so informative. It just says 'developing automated tests for products", in this case the product is hardware
I just need to make sure the piece of hardware gives the expected value after executing the already working software
This is my best guess, not sure tho
vapid jay
gl
im extactly super experienced with hardware lol
mostly just software
but u have done testing before right
cuz i dont think u need to worry too hard
brazen whale
I have done testing on scripts I wrote... Like when I was learning, and for a few projects to just make sure I understand how it works...
But I'm not sure how the whole picture with the piece of hardware would work... Hopefully it's pretty much the same
vapid jay
i think they will have some training too
brazen whale
Yeah, I was told there would be a 3 weeks training, which sounds great, I just want to be prepared for it
vapid jay
So I accepted a job for developing automation tests and I'm not sure if I'm prepared for it. I have done several courses and done multiple tasks in coding websites, but still not sure what exactly I need for these automated tests, does anyone have a better idea of what I should expect?
@brazen whale how'd you land that job?
if it's entry level you might be doing the testing based on what I've had peers go through
mortal wedge
There's a good chance you'll be using a testing framework like Selenium or something.
Were any of those frameworks mentioned on the job description? Either way, they'll probably teach you all about it. I wouldn't worry so much 🙂
But I know that's easier said than done
vapid jay
selenium is fun to have working
frustrating as f when it isn't
@mortal wedge if you were a consultant for a couple of years , how would that show up on an employment background check?
shadow stream
selenium to me was the very definition of "haha yes race conditions" when I first worked with it
vapid jay
race conditions? @shadow stream
shadow stream
you know, attempting to click an element when it hasn't even loaded on the viewport or whatever
I was also learning selenium using javascript while trying to learn async/awaits at the same time, soooo
a lot of pain
covert scaffold
You have mechanics in place, for example to wait until the site has loaded
spice musk
If I have been working on personal voluntary projects as full time for x amount of months, should they be ok to go on my CV as valid work experience, even though it was for myself.
viral ridge
personal voluntary?:)
id say they could, personally i ran a minor firm in another country for 2 yrs, but i dont put that on my CS cv
spice musk
No I meant it’s my own project which I started on my own, and is under active development and has a user base.
marsh wind
if it is fairly large user base it should appear somehow
spice musk
Would you put it under hobby/interest or actually inside the work experience section
gilded valley
include the actual amount of users
vapid jay
Lufthansa-Pilot nur englisch hier?
marsh wind
@vapid jay hey it is an English speaking server only
marsh wind
We don't mind bad English or even Google translate at all: there are plenty of non native speakers
shadow moss
for reference, our QA uses Selenium and Powershell for testing
Selenium for web testing, Powershell for REST API and other tests
zinc fractal
hey
theoretically if i learn ml/ai it should be easier getting a job in say 4 years than if i was learning something else, like web dev, right?
cause ml/ai is quite new compared to web dev which a lot of devs do these days
gilded valley
that depends on too many factors to be able to give an easy answer to
gilded valley
ML/AI is a buzzword, there's not necessarily a lot of demand in those areas. Getting a job depends on factors like location, experience, formal education; the whole 4 years thing isn't that relevant either, there's no"end point" with learning
viral ridge
i see whole lotta data scientist/engineer postings
mortal wedge
@vapid jay It wouldn't, unless I registered an LLC. I haven't registered an LLC, but I have registered the consulting company name. But even then, unless it was an extensive background check for a sec clearance, it wouldn't be provable.
shadow moss
t0dd, ML/AI will probably have better jobs in 4 years but it along with data scientist/engineer isn't something you can bootcamp/self teach your way into
marsh wind
Well you can, if you already have some stem degree or experience
vapid jay
@vapid jay It wouldn't, unless I registered an LLC. I haven't registered an LLC, but I have registered the consulting company name. But even then, unless it was an extensive background check for a sec clearance, it wouldn't be provable.
@mortal wedge so you got away nice and clean huh
working for places that require sec clearance must be pretty nice
mortal wedge
They generally pay pretty well
But it does require getting a sec clear first which not everybody can do
vapid jay
why would that be? @mortal wedge
assuming you're an average joe that hasn't ever been arrested or beyond
mortal wedge
Some people have secrets they’re really ashamed of, or massive debt, or are really sexually deviant, or are friends with foreign nationals etc etc
mortal wedge
They do serious research for some types of security clearances. I’m not sure how often on a percentage basis, but if you apply for an appeal to a security clearance denial it goes into public record (with your name removed) and sometimes I’ve read those when bored
vapid jay
do they look at your internet history or something?
I know they do extensive interviews of your social network
mortal wedge
No idea, but they seem to be pretty good at finding shit.
mortal wedge
You might get away with hiding stuff
But here’s the thing, it’s not that you have secrets it’s the potential for blackmail
mortal wedge
Exactly
vapid jay
I've been interviewed for someone that was getting clearance
and they only asked if anyone had anything on that person that had the potential for blackmail
and i just said no
and that's as far as it goes?
mortal wedge
It might, but there are different levels of clearances.
I have no idea about their processes. It’s not something made public
distant crow
NOT FOR RECRUITMENT
also your chances of finding free coders for a game is exceedingly low
shadow moss
I had a friend who did background clearance investigations, financial reasons is #1 reason for denial and most employers run credit checks before hiring so that doesn't happen. #2 is foreign influence, everything else is pretty rare. Employers do their best not to submit people who will be denied
reef kayak
When is the best time to contact a recruiter about an internship
vapid jay
not exactly sure with this covid situation rn
reef kayak
Like I have seen people saying I have contacted them at this company but idk how can I start doing that
vapid jay
im told small companies r not really looking to take new ppl in
reef kayak
What about like Faang
vapid jay
cold email works if u can word it right
reef kayak
What should I say
shadow moss
whenever you want
vapid jay
prob slightly better than submitting an application online
shadow moss
show interest in their internship
not sure why you are not applying via their website
vapid jay
u can write a followup letter
summer roost
contacting after submitting an application isn't likely to do much good, at least not at a large company
shadow moss
recruiters might look at your resume, or they might toss your resume out for annoying them, I've heard of both
vapid jay
well u never know unless u try
reef kayak
My original idea was if I didn't hear back from them like after a week or two then I will contact them
shadow moss
again, is this for winter internship?
reef kayak
Summer
vapid jay
oof
vapid jay
u might want to start looknig at winter
shadow moss
I wouldn't contact them
because biggest question for recruiter will be "Why am I getting this in July for summer internships?"
vapid jay
i say 4 months
shadow moss
when you applied, was it for Summer 2021 in application/
reef kayak
So wait I am talking about an internship for summer 2021
vapid jay
oooh
summer roost
I would have said 3 - March or April.
vapid jay
lol
reef kayak
Right now finance companies are open only
shadow moss
because if it was, they are not even looking at those
reef kayak
And no faang has opened their application for internship
shadow moss
Everyone opens in Jan/Feb/March/April
reef kayak
So best month
shadow moss
there is no "best" month
reef kayak
Doesn't faang open their application in September
shadow moss
I think Google does in September
but I'm pretty sure they don't make decisions until April
vapid jay
well ur resume does kinda need to get pass the recuiter first
shadow moss
recruiters are not going to want to hear from you right now
go ahead, just don't be shocked if you hear silence
vapid jay
if ur doing some 2021 app wait it out
shadow moss
generally contacting megacorp recruiters doesn't help
shadow moss
maybe 5% chance they dont' press delete on your email/linked in message
EVERYONE wants to work there, everyone thinks that "Maybe, just maybe if I annoy the recruiter enough, they will get me interview"
esp for entry level positions
reef kayak
True
shadow moss
I've worked with recruiters, I've watched them just press delete key like mad
vapid jay
I had a friend who did background clearance investigations, financial reasons is #1 reason for denial and most employers run credit checks before hiring so that doesn't happen. #2 is foreign influence, everything else is pretty rare. Employers do their best not to submit people who will be denied
@shadow moss that means having gaps in employment would be an issue?
or is staying out of non student debt sufficient?
shadow moss
being fired can be an issue
just having gaps unless you run massive debt shouldn't be
whether or not you are likely to get a clearance is something your company security officer can answer and requires disclosure of personal information that obviously shouldn't happen to random people on discord
I can tell you, unpaid or large amount of debt can be an issue, unpaid taxes are huge issue and drug usage, including marijuana will be an issue
mortal wedge
If you're making regular debt payments though they tend to be more lenient
shadow moss
tend to, yes
mortal wedge
The only thing I'm not sure about and that has worried me is how they look at marijuana if you use in a legal state
shadow moss
but it's not guarantee by any stretch
mortal wedge
Oh, ofc not
shadow moss
is marijuana legal federally?
mortal wedge
no
shadow moss
then that's how federal government views it
mortal wedge
Bleh
I think having debt will get you denied, but if you appeal you seem to have a decent shot if you show that you're working towards clearing it, based off of the public security clearance appeals I've gone through
Some people though it's like wow how did you ever think you'd get cleared
shadow moss
most are probably renewals
mortal wedge
If you like... casually brought home classified info to work on at home and then laughed and said "Why not" when asked why
shadow moss
their credit was fine when they applied, got worse and during renewal, it popped and they were denied
mortal wedge
Ah
shadow moss
in particular, most of them are probably renewals fighting to keep their job
because if they are denied, they will be teriminated
mortal wedge
That makes sense
shadow moss
and even worse, private sector position probably pays less
for computer professionals, clearance can easily net you 20-40k then you would get in private sector outside FAANG
mortal wedge
Yeah, absolutely
summer roost
and even worse, private sector position probably pays less
@shadow moss That hasn't been my experience. From what I've seen, jobs that require clearances pay less than finance, for instance.
Security clearances definitely give you some job security, but I wouldn't agree that they tend to give higher pay than an equivalently skilled job in another industry.
shadow moss
as always, YMMV but IME, security clearance jobs pay better then most private sector positions
Sure, edge cases exist
mortal wedge
Very worst cases, being able to get a sec clearance opens you up to entire industries that have a lot of financial backing
shadow moss
and vast majority of people I've encounter from DoD are not superstars, just average people doing average work
nothing wrong with that
summer roost
what sorts of salaries are you seeing for security clearance jobs? From what I've seen they top out at maybe $150k, and that's on the high end
shadow moss
2021078 Software Developer $215,000.00
Position Requires a Top Secret (TS/SCI) Clearance with a Polygraph.
and 150k is normal for high end developer outside FAANG SFO or Finacial NYC which are like 5-10% of programmers in United States
Software Engineering: Full Stack Developer
$160,000 a year
Active Top Secret clearance with SCI eligibility
summer roost
that's better than I'd have expected. Maybe I've just only looked at worse paying contractors 😄
shadow moss
msot of them are TS/SCI which is tippy top of clearance
mortal wedge
It does sound like you've been looking at lower paying contractors 😛
mortal wedge
Yeah, but I currently smoke weed, lol
and will continue to do so during the current administration in the US
vapid jay
✊
mortal wedge
Also, jobs tend to be offering higher rates for people with CURRENT active TS clearance
woeful spruce
wow government jobs must pay well, that is nuts
that is senior leadership type of salary
mortal wedge
It's not a government job
woeful spruce
oh....
mortal wedge
It's a company that contracts for the government.
woeful spruce
government contractor job?
mortal wedge
Yes
woeful spruce
well that is what I meant, sorry
shadow moss
WashDC area also has higher COL from what I've been told
woeful spruce
well cost of living is higher there, I believe, so that makes sense
summer roost
that's still only right around median salary for finance.
summer roost
I wish that more of my coworkers were good 😛
shadow moss
you can see US government pay here
most programmers on government payroll are probably around GS11-14
shadow moss
salary
mortal wedge
I'm not sure how often steps increment, but GS 14 at the top step is pretty sweet
121k is a nice salary
warm coyote
Do they hire foreign nationals?
shadow moss
No for most part, there are tiny exceptions but US Government requires citizenship for hiring
vagrant phoenix
Hi there, what is this chanel "Careers" about? Can i find job opportunities here or what?
true turtle
idts
according to the channels topic
but you can discuss about job opportunities and your experiences
and questions
marsh wind
it's also fine for broad career related questions, i.e. you can ask if someone is willing to look at your CV/cover leter and give a feedback
vivid dock
Ye, we do not offer any hiring boards (or any similar activities), as it is awfully hard for us to moderate. We want to make sure every member of our server can trust what they can access through us. Job postings and "gigs" etc is very hard to verify the integrity of
zinc fractal
does anyone know any good courses in python for data structures and algorithms?
gilded valley
Mit 6.006. It's linked to in the pins of #algos-and-data-structs
zinc fractal
thanks
viral ridge
I just need the 💰
vivid dock
Ok?
covert scaffold
im sure you'll enjoy your career if all you're after is money
vapid jay
sometimes you gotta eat, right?
vivid dock
You won't enjoy it either if you feel like you're undervalued
vapid jay
hard to feel undervalued if I'm eating
covert scaffold
work a minimal salary job for 40 years and come back again with that statement
actually you could be paid preety well and still feel undervalued
vast forum
mortal wedge
I worked near minimum age for my last job and now I’m making over three times as much it’s great
white karma
That’s what I’m hoping for
craggy elm
what are some decent US jobs boards you guys use? all i really use at the moment is indeed and linkedin
white karma
Those are pretty much the top 2
mortal wedge
^
distant crow
angellist for startups if that's your thing
though you only find a certain kind of startup on there
the rest use indeed/linkedin
mortal wedge
Also, I'd subscribe to notifications to job postings from your major industry players
Like, subscribe to job alerts to FAANG if you're interested in working there
past crow
how is CS as a degree?
i'm currently in high school and I always wanted to go into aerospace (and learning python for aerospace is a good idea anyways) but now idk if I should do aero/mech/CS 😛
mortal wedge
CS would be more flexible since it's applicable to jobs outside of aerospace if you ever wanted to switch industries
If you're looking for aerospace jobs, aero would be a solid major, but you'd obviously be learning less comp sci stuff. Generally a company will still take you for programming jobs if you have an engineering degree in a related field
craggy elm
from someone with a ME undergrad degree in the midwest US, the ME field in my area seems pretty dead, and I'm trying to transition to software dev since it seems to be more flexible
craggy elm
yeah, i moved to this state because it had a bunch of factories
but it seems like almost nobody was hiring even prior to the pandemic
even for interns lol
i really like software development though since i just like to make things in general
mortal wedge
and yeah, once the pandemic hit...
craggy elm
yeah good luck lol
im lucky in that i was already in a software dev position
one of my friends got hired at rockwell automation, and she needs to go to the office every day because she mostly works with physical stuff. now she's a bit jealous that i can just sit my ass at home every day and work lol
mortal wedge
I'm happy af that I can work from home
past crow
@craggy elm hey, midwest gang
@mortal wedge thanks for the advice, as a junior in HS i got a year or two to decide but
it's becoming harder day by day
so nowadays i'm learning CAD and python at the same time to see which i prefer tbh
i have the tech to do both, but idk lol
mortal wedge
CAD is legacy software, tbh. It's on its way out, the only reason it's still used in the industry is because of all the old projects/people that are still stuck on it
past crow
but it is a big deal esp. in aerospace lol
fuck dude, idk why i just want to learn haha
mortal wedge
Keep that spirit, it will take you far in life 🙂
There's no reason why you can't learn both!
past crow
exactly
which is why i'm learning both rn haha
ig what i major in can be decided later
distant crow
CAD is absolutely not on the way out
how else are you going to design your parts? let an AI do it?
craggy elm
CAD is absolutely critical lol
what are you talking about?
CAD is used for modeling geometry
distant crow
FEA too
craggy elm
it's critical for CFD
if you don't know your geometry, then you can't do either of those
past crow
@craggy elm are you still in the midwest?
distant crow
I had a lot of problems locating a metric ruler
craggy elm
yeah, im gonna get a condo in WI, but long term, im going to move to either canada or somewhere in europe.
past crow
is there just more mech opportunities overseas? @craggy elm
my dream cities to work in are the basic ones, Seattle, London, etc
idk if aero or CS is the move. for Aero I always wanted to work at boeing
craggy elm
idk, im transitioning to software dev, so idk about ME opportunities overseas
i know a fair amount of statistics and about regression, so i'll probably transition to something in data science or something more numerical
the big issues i have with working in the US are worker protections and the overall work culture.
the only reason i can pretty much give the bird to my boss when he asks me to work overtime "im salary" is because im critical enough to not be fired for something really stupid like that
white karma
Heck, sometimes you don’t even get asked
craggy elm
he needs to ask me directly because i don't play these stupid games anymore lol i've trained him to know that i stop working exactly at 8 hours
it's a pretty nice power dynamic since im the one with the upper hand at this point, and i'll be milking it for a while.
and im only a hardass about my hours because realistically, nobody else is going to be watching out for my back in this dog eat dog world of business.
mortal wedge
@distant crow Things like solidworks
and other tools that also support 2d drawings that I'm not thinking of atm
white karma
I feel that @craggy elm
mortal wedge
Yeah
Typically, working faster/harder just gets you more work
and/or people will take advantage of your willingness to do more work, lol
craggy elm
there's never a shortage of work lol
im just concerned with doing it "right the 1st time" since i don't want to make it 2x
even though "doing it right the 1st time" technically isn't really a thing
white karma
Doing more work is no problem if I get paid for doing more
That’s what bugs me about salaries in general
craggy elm
yeah, i get that
mortal wedge
Coldwind, sounds like you might want to consider taking up independent contracting 🙂
craggy elm
i don't really mind it because im comfortable enough being a hardass when i need to be
craggy elm
it doesn't stress me out, really
white karma
@mortal wedge If I had any experience to throw around that would be great, I’m still learning/trying to get a programming job in my spare time
mortal wedge
Ah, yeah. Consulting/Independent Contracting is usually done once you have a few years under your belt, at least
Kudos to you for learning on your own in your spare time 🙂
craggy elm
i don't have that much experience, but i've heard that showing projects are great for showing to potential employers
mortal wedge
Yup! Building a project portfolio is a good idea
mortal wedge
Don't trash your code when you're done, keep it somewhere
white karma
Working on that for sure
craggy elm
i have 2 separate repos on my github account lol 1 for "learning" another for "tutorials"
"learning" is just garbage code i wrote when i was curious about something
"tutorials" is garbage code for when i was following some tutorial
distant crow
solidworks and CAD in general is still very much a strong player. I do agree though, solidworks' backend services are a POS and incredibly annoying to maintain
(particularly PDM)
craggy elm
i've never worked with solidworks, but it definitely doesn't seem like it's going out lol
mortal wedge
Maybe my opinion is colored by hating autocad and just wanting to do it all in solidworks
craggy elm
nearly everyone i knew at college only knew about solidworks
mortal wedge
Oh, solidworks isn't going out
Solidworks is very useful
Just cad is soooo legacy and I only used it like once or twice in college
While solidworks was all the time
craggy elm
how is CAD legacy?
mortal wedge
How long has it been around?
white karma
CAD has been around since before I was born I’m sure
craggy elm
old != legacy lol
mortal wedge
1982
white karma
Oh yeah then definitely
mortal wedge
Just that it's old and there are newer tools
craggy elm
such as?
distant crow
are you using "cad" as short for Autocad?
mortal wedge
yes
craggy elm
im going to bet that any answer you give is CAD
craggy elm
CAD = computer aided design
craggy elm
autocad is a CAD software developed by autodesk
white karma
I used autoCAD once in high school
mortal wedge
Solidworks replaces autocad was my point
craggy elm
idk enough about the 2 to even know, but i'll take your word for it
distant crow
I had to maintain a Solidworks PDM backend at one point, and it was such a painful experience. They make you sign a thing that says "if you install this yourself, you will get no support for it" and the alternative is to pay an authorized company to do the installation for you
craggy elm
that sounds like a lot of fun
distant crow
which is dumb. but I eventually understood why: PDM is not well built, it's built on ageing technology, requires specific versions of things like MS SQL for metadata, and that's why they don't want to support you because it's just not good
mortal wedge
Yeah that sounds terribad
distant crow
solidworks itself is pretty good though
mortal wedge
Yeah, it's definitely got my thumbs up
craggy elm
i feel like a lot of software made for engineering purposes isn't well built in general. especially the software im working on as we write lol
vapid jay
maybe because it's built on deadlines
and not meant for good experience
laboratory software i imagine is pretty similar
distant crow
this might be why I'm still using Windows as a desktop even though 95% of my work is fine or can in fact benefit on Linux - I've just been instilled with a fear that I might encounter some windows-only program one day, which is something that often came up in the past
vapid jay
the only reason I haven't moved over to Linux tbh is because of macros on autohotkey
automated the hell out of the cruddy laboratory software
mortal wedge
Engineering software just has such a narrow userbase
So either you're paying out the wazoo for it or it's not made well
distant crow
good ones exist though, they're just eeexpensive
past crow
oh lol
mortal wedge
Yup
past crow
i'm learning AutoCAD rn aswell as python + inventor
mortal wedge
Like, no way in hell I'm going to pay for an individual use Matlab license
mortal wedge
It's $860 a year for an annual license, like holy shit. That's JUST the base package
Oh, home use is $149 a month if you promise not to use it for anything 😄
"This license option Is not for government, academic, commercial, or other organizational use."
err, a year I think
craggy elm
there's a reason why anything i could write in matlab i write in python
covert scaffold
octave is a decent scuffed alternative
covert scaffold
there's a reason why anything i could write in matlab i write in python
@craggy elm you could do that in any turing completel language 😉
craggy elm
if you have the money for it
distant crow
yep, for sure. though I hate it as a programming language. but it sure is powerful
craggy elm
@covert scaffold yeah i get it lol i could write it in C if i really wanted to. the point is that im not going to be doing any rapid prototyping in C lol
covert scaffold
always true 😛
mortal wedge
The problem with Matlab is that it's really the only programming language taught to engineers, and it takes care of so many things under the hood that it does not prepare you for a job in SWE
I had done so much matlab programming I thought getting a SWE job would be a cakewalk but on Amazon's interview I got ripped to shreds
craggy elm
oh boy lol
i was dicking around with stuff prior to being introduced to matlab in college, so from the get go i noticed the class was just hot garbage
the funny thing is that some people i work with compartmentalize their work so heavily that they make themselves believe that they're not doing SWE work
mortal wedge
Going from matlab to C++ was such a blast because I ran into so many damn memory and time errors
I stack overflowed on like every project
craggy elm
lmao
mortal wedge
My first search on stack overflow was about stack overflows 😄
distant crow
you should get some kind of reward
mortal wedge
Free stack overflow with every first program execution!
scenic venture
Is everyone a genius 😦
I just want a small internship in 4rth year. But my college nothing that can be applied in these job details ;-;
It's okay you can say yes ._.
mortal wedge
It's not so much about knowing all the things, it's knowing where to find the information when you need it.
scenic venture
I had to learn python, ml, deep learning, django all by myself in a year
but still
scenic venture
when i look at internships they are like oh btw you must know ANGULAR JS, REACT JS, JAVA, DOCKER, MUST KNOW DATABASE MANAGEMENT, DBMS ALL THE WAY, also create an ANDROID APP that's nice
for 13 dollar per month haha
did i mention openCV
HOw do I get an internship 😫
I'm from india btw, so I'm also worried that half of these are scams
mortal wedge
😦
Well, keep in mind that most hiring managers use their postings as wishlists
They just put everything under the sun they can think of. Even if you don't have all of them, apply anyway
Yo'ure not going to get paid a lot, that's normal.
The idea is that after college you can use the experience to help qualify you for a job
craggy elm
yeah, if you know a few things and believe that you can learn the rest on the job, then just apply
i wouldn't view a job posting as a sign of everything you need going into the job
white karma
Damn if the “years of experience preferred” isn’t a deterrent
craggy elm
pretty much
HR people are the majority of the people making these job postings, so most really have no idea what they're asking for
it's a game that you just need to get decent at playing
sand frost
I wonder how much more I'll need to self educate in programing to get a dev position as a physics 4th year undergrad
I got to the point where I at least know what job adverts are asking about and I at least touched most of the things, but I almost never hear back
😂
mortal wedge
Sounds like your issue is your resume then
sand frost
Someone had to tell me that
scenic venture
I got to the point where I at least know what job adverts are asking about and I at least touched most of the things, but I almost never hear back
@sand frost Let's team up D'':
sand frost
Btw fun fact I tried applying to tech support in couple of places to maybe get my feet wet with IT enviroment
And all rejected me one place saying "we think you'll move to devs to fast and training you for support is waste of time" 😂
@scenic venture Im always ready to team up 💩
scenic venture
@scenic venture Im always ready to team up 💩
@sand frost I'm charge of team name you're in charge of motivation 🙃 😭
Also when I go to freelance sites it's always like, EXPERTS needed. I'm like, welp,,,,,
craggy elm
yeah, IT and dev are totally different. if you think you want to get into SWE, then don't even think about IT
sand frost
SWE? SWEDEN?
lunar monolith
hey guys anybody knows how to deal with impostor syndrome? 😭
sand frost
Googled swe, gave me society of women engineers. Not bad
Also when I go to freelance sites it's always like, EXPERTS needed. I'm like, welp,,,,,
@scenic venture
Im not looking for freelance deals though, i just want to have reliable career path
hey guys anybody knows how to deal with impostor syndrome? 😭
@lunar monolith
When you find the answer LMK, I honestly undersell myself at every opportunity
scenic venture
@scenic venture
Im not looking for freelance deals though, i just want to have reliable career path
@sand frost
At this point I just want to earn money ;-;
sand frost
Like idk I just think everyone around me knows MORE, but thats not always the case
lunar monolith
It's tough not to feel intimidated by the high expectations of most job positions, I am a philosophy grad that has been flirting with NLP/ML for
a year, I also got deep into web development but I didn't find it fun, I'm looking for a reliable scientific oriented career path, i'm just afraid that I'm choosing a very niche/specialized field without a solid math/programming background
scenic venture
I feel like everyone is hiding everything and not letting me know 😦 The I feel like I'm not doing enough, I don't know enough. And god forbid if I finish a task and feel happy, someone will be like ooh look I got an internship at my dad's company while I'm here like my dad lost his job haha
sand frost
@lunar monolith idk, I didnt do any ML yet, but I want to poke my head in there eventually. Im thinking on doing masters/maybe phd in physics actually, and I want to move to developing solutions for research
scenic venture
It's tough not to feel intimidated by the high expectations of most job positions, I am a philosophy grad that has been flirting with NLP/ML for
a year, I also got deep into web development but I didn't find it fun, I'm looking for a reliable scientific oriented career path, i'm just afraid that I'm choosing a very niche/specialized field without a solid math/programming background
@lunar monolith You can definitely get into ML engineering without strong mathematical background. You just have to keep programming and know how to use the tools
craggy elm
@sand frost SWE = software engineering
if you want to get anywhere and keep a good position in the data science field, you really should learn about applied statistics and applied regression
it's the core of data science
it's better to know why you're doing all of these things instead of just pressing buttons hoping for an output
lunar monolith
Thats very good advice, my main problem right now is finding a good method to self teach data science concepts through relevant projects
craggy elm
understandable
try something relatively simple
for example, try to make simple linear regression models using some python SDKs as a very easy start
like, if you'restarting from square 1
once you're able to make the models, then try to figure out how you compare the models to figure out which one is "the best"
i have an account set up for this: https://www.kaggle.com/
not sure how great it is though since i haven't done too much on it
it looked like it had a bunch of useful resources re: data science
lunar monolith
Thanks a lot, it seems like a good starting point, focusing on applied statistics seems definitely to be the fundamental skill I need to build, I think I just have a lot of self-doubt but if I manage to stick to a plan and be positive things will probably work out
mortal wedge
Self-doubt sucks
white karma
^
mortal harness
@lunar monolith not a lot of things you get worse at the more you do it. If you keep going, you can't fail. I mean, look at No Man's Sky lmao
drifting viper
following up on earlier job discussion
i tend to see lots of job postings look for sr devs
5-8 years of experience
wonder how one can even get into the field
vapid jay
tell less truth when the benefit and risk outweigh telling the truth
drifting viper
funny enough i got interviewed for one such job
hr lady told me they are looking for somebody with at least a couple of years of exp
white karma
Maybe they think all aspiring senior devs have time turners
sullen osprey
I am just afraid of going in this field further as i see requirements for jr devs.....
white karma
But once you’re in, you’re in
sullen osprey
Idk wordpress knowledge, php, js with vue and react, azure, docker, aws, good design skills and other things that i dont know yet
Devops skills
..m
white karma
Well heck neither do I, but it’s not worth fretting over
subtle trail
Hi guys! I work in a financial institution and I'm self-taught and have been using python for about a year or so. Have plenty of projects but no developer experience and a Bachelors in Psychology. Trying to get a junior Dev role. Any idea if there are any stepping stone jobs I should transition to? Or any strategies I can take to be more marketable?
sullen osprey
Yea i know its nto worthy but what to do if i need something to do in aws xD
Like i cant learn it kver night
white karma
You shouldn’t be expected to
@subtle trail Having a portfolio with your projects to display is a huge help
subtle trail
@white karma I have them all displayed on Github
sullen osprey
I am checking local fb groups for coding every day in hope that someone will ask for flask dev but with no luck so far xD
white karma
Have you contributed to any open source projects?
sullen osprey
I should oearn docker or php
white karma
It would probably be more worth your while to market yourself more
Or get involved with the community
subtle trail
@white karma Thats a really good idea. What do you think is a good way to get started with that
?
sullen osprey
By contributing to projects people can find you
I think stack overflow has section "Looking for jib"
Job*
i should try to listen my self more...
white karma
There’s a channel in this group where people show off their projects, maybe collab with them
subtle trail
Awesome, thanks guys!
open patio
white karma
Anything in regards to customer service/people skills would be a plus I’d say
peak drum
Protip: search for site:boards.greenhouse.io python on your favorite search engine website (e.g. https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=site%3Aboards.greenhouse.io+python&ia=web)
mortal wedge
soft skills are nice especially if they match keywords that are in the job posting. Not weighed as heavily as hard skills though
woeful spruce
most people use platitudes when it comes to appraising their soft skills. Might as well join in to get past the gatekeeper (aka HR)
past crow
how challenging is it to get an internship in college
mortal wedge
Not sure. I didn't do any
reef kayak
Upperclassmen told me that it can be challenging but it you work hard you should get somewhere
But again I am not sure
Didn't get one in my first year and now I have a feeling I will not get one in my second year
velvet karma
Hi
past crow
i mean
like
@mortal wedge @reef kayak i’ve been networking early lol. was talking to a guy from Uber and he said he could get me into internships if I had a 3.5+ CS major
velvet karma
I am in last year of my highschool and i would like to make a career in artificial intelligence (python). The problem is course do i need to opt and which university should i join. Please suggest a career path considering appericiable scolarship. No bar on country or university for now. Please ping me. Thanks
mortal wedge
They pay you the $$$
past crow
considering i’m in high school i was excited to read that he thought that i have potential
mortal wedge
Very nice
mortal wedge
You should definitely follow your dreams and shit
reef kayak
@past crow yea I should do that asap
Networking does help a lot from what I have heard
past crow
exactly
sacred sonnet
hey guys
i'm learning python by myself and i managed to make a website with flask, now should i go for the college/university after school?
storm jungle
i'm learning python by myself and i managed to make a website with flask, now should i go for the college/university after school?
@sacred sonnet You dont need a degree to become a developer in today's world but if you can afford a degree then it is a must i guess
sand frost
Might be unpopular opinion but I think degree is super important if you want to move into more advanced fields
Like coding simple web pages etc, yeah not much theory is needed there.
gilded valley
The big advantage of a university degree from the perspective of learning is that you're forced to learn a lot of things; whether you like it or not. As for whether it's worth it or not, that's more debatable, but it definitely seems much easier than not doing one
sand frost
Yeah just having a STEM degree, is obvious indicator that you're not a moron
sacred sonnet
The big advantage of a university degree from the perspective of learning is that you're forced to learn a lot of things; whether you like it or not. As for whether it's worth it or not, that's more debatable, but it definitely seems much easier than not doing one
i guess that's a pro yeah
if you like a thing you learn it by yourself better than you can do in a school/college
but there are a lot of things that you get bored
but they have to be studied
gilded valley
I learned about say DFDs, I don't care about them, they're boring as shit, but it is a useful thing to have learned. I also know I wouldn't have had the motivation to learn at quite the same pace if I wasn't doing a degree
so unless you're the exception, and a highly motivated person, then a degree is a useful way to make yourself learn thigns
sacred sonnet
alright 👌thanks for advicing guys
sand frost
You're not entirely correct. You dont learn much in uni unless you're super motivated aswell
But it forces you to go through a lot of topics in a short timr
Time
gilded valley
you still learn more than you otherwise would. It's not like highschool where things are handed to you on a plate, but there is a bare minimum that you're forced to learn or drop out
sacred sonnet
btw in my country computer-science formation is very few, my teacher of computer-science didn't even know what kali linux was
and she has a degree lol
sand frost
Idk in my uni around 70% drop out from CS. Just saying that it's a challange by itself, and high school students usually dont get it
vapid jay
isn't kali Linux relatively new
gilded valley
I've heard that exact 70% number from my university - and it 100% isn't true. Not saying that's the case for yours, but my uni and a couple of others i know of are made out to be much harder than they are
vapid jay
and isn't that because the math is crazy hard
Idk in my uni around 70% drop out from CS. Just saying that it's a challange by itself, and high school students usually dont get it
@sand frost
like weeder classes
sand frost
Im not CS major, but physics so idk, but my pries did CS and he said 30 finished of initial +100
But yeah math is crazy hard
sand frost
Its not that small, besides cs there are other programs
Which are almost indentical
Like software engineering seperate program etc.
storm jungle
Even I dropped out my CS degree and now learning from the internet lol
gilded valley
My uni had ~300 start on the CS related courses. Not sure how much it's dropped, but there's at least 70% 2 years in, almost certainly more
sand frost
Thats good, I dont consider high drop out rate a good sign tbh. Yeah some guys will understand that this major is not for them blah blah blah
But certainly not majority ..
Our school in some fields is crazy outdated, like I in physics had experiment automation class, where I had to write pascal code on win98 machines, because there is no funding to buy new equipment for this class
😂
distant crow
I don't think the number of dropouts necessarily means the course is hard. it could also be because of misconceptions and differences between expectation and reality
I can imagine people go into a CS degree expecting to make amazing apps, but then the reality of the mathematics lectures hits hard
abstract tundra
Hello, I'm new here, next course I'm going to university to make a computer science degree in spain. Does anyone have the degree, or similar?
gilded valley
Most subscribed CS courses at my uni are cyber security ones. The vast majority of people going into those degrees have 0 idea what it entails
crude crown
things are always cooler when imagined before reality hits you in the mouth.
vapid jay
this girl I know was a CS major
distant crow
I have a general engineering degree, does that count?
crude crown
loads of people should have a CS degree on this server
abstract tundra
I have a general engineering degree, does that count?
@distant crow Sure, all the engineering degrees start vry similar
crude crown
oh and it's degree, not course.
distant crow
I can tell you how much energy is in steam at 222 degrees C and 2 bar...but only if you give me a big table of numbers
crude crown
an usual typo that spanish/portuguese usually do when talking about degrees.
abstract tundra
so degree is university?
distant crow
steam is relevant in computers right?
crude crown
degree is your "major". In your case, Computer Science would be a degree. A course would be for example "Introduction to Programming" or "Computational Theory" or things like that.
abstract tundra
oh yes, I was talking about a degree then
crude crown
this is just minor nitpicking. : )
abstract tundra
thank you
crude crown
but yeah, what were you going to ask about in particular?
abstract tundra
yes, people that have done something similar, are you happy with what you studied? Did it met the expectation?
crude crown
well, considering I'm in the Iberian peninsula as well I can answer that briefly.
craggy elm
@distant crow i actually wrote a c library for steam tables functionality based on publicly available research from IAPWS
distant crow
very nice
I wish we had steam tables in digital form. but no, we were expected to use printed tables
craggy elm
although, i need to add support for linux
i have a windows pc, so i need to get around to making an ubuntu vm and trying to build it there
distant crow
forget linux, you need to support Windows 98 judging by how old some machines around engineering departments are
crude crown
For CS degrees (here I'm thinking about the more "applied" variant, also called informatics engineering), all universities teach about the same things.
craggy elm
lmfao i know right
it's just a c library though, so i intended it to be used more by developers
crude crown
Some universities/departments might be more specialized in somethings than others but that's more relevant during a master's/PhD.
craggy elm
like, if you need the functionality in an app or something
abstract tundra
Some universities/departments might be more specialized in somethings than others but that's more relevant during a master's/PhD.
@crude crown Thank you sir, do you speak spanish?
crude crown
not really.
having that said, don't sweat so much about the choice of university but do make sure that you nail the fundamentals.
crude crown
no, I mean during your degree to nail down the more fundamental classes, like linear algebra for example.
abstract tundra
Oh I see, I'll have that in mind
crude crown
with respect if I'm satisfied or not with the degree... that's a tough question.
abstract tundra
Go on if you want, im curious
crude crown
To keep it brief, I would have done quite a few things differently.
and it might not necessarily be related to the degree itself.
either way, what I think would make sense for someone enrolling in CS nowadays (also, are you sure you want to go into CS?)
for starters, the competition is really fierce nowadays
so you'll need ways to distinguish yourself from your cohort.
can be either on focusing on more niche skills, working on side-projects and so on.
so do keep that in mind, that's how it is nowadays.
and most likely there might be "easier" fields in that sense that aren't receiving so much spotlight and having so many people try to get in.
also... what's hyped nowadays most likely won't be hyped when you finish your degree
abstract tundra
I appreciate your opinion, yes I'm sure I want to go into CS, I want to go to learn the things I need in order to make the things that are in my mind. I know it will hit hard since I dont have a gifted intelligence. It's okay for me if competition is hard, Im a competitive person when it comes to something I like
Did you study all day?
crude crown
no
abstract tundra
okay
crude crown
mostly during exam periods.
abstract tundra
Nice, the way students do hahah
crude crown
yeah, but I'm not sure that would work nowadays.
abstract tundra
Yes, take care
covert scaffold
you don't have to have a "gifted intelligence"
mostly it's about putting in the work
crude folio
Hi guys, need to vent a little. I'm feeling out of my depth and the work project I'm managing/developing is becoming less and less useful. Pretty much feeling completely fucked. Anybody been in the same situation?
mortal wedge
My current project is a mess, but I’m an independent contractor atm so I’m given enough power to unfurl it
crude folio
Good to know I'm in company I guess. I'm 9 months in to a two year project as the sole developer and have not got anything done because the spec was nonsensical
viral ridge
So what have you been doing?
shadow moss
Hopefully getting paid
craggy elm
sometimes you need to push back if what's being asked is completely ridiculous
idk your situation though, so that's more of a general statement instead of me telling you what to do
i remember in college i was asked by some health sciences student if it was possible to 3D print a scanned human body geometry. needless to say, he didn't want to hear about how much work it would take to actually realize said thing he wanted to do
distant crow
you should also hold your managers or whomever is producing the spec accountable for providing you with the information you need to do your job
this is called "upwards management", and as I mentioned the other day, it is important
bad managers and toxic personalities/work environments notwithstanding, the best thing you can say in this situation is to tell them: "it is your role to provide me with this spec, I can't work with out it" followed by asking "how can I help you get me this?"
craggy elm
yeah, being able to formulate some alternative to what they provided, if what they provided is garbage, is pretty useful
distant crow
also prevents anyone from accusing you of not doing your job or not being a "team player"
craggy elm
exactly
distant crow
can't really be your fault if you offered to help, laid out what you need/your expectations clearly, and they still failed to give you what you needed for your work
craggy elm
yeah, like, an engineer's role - even in SWE i could imagine - is to be the person who can filter out what's reasonable and what isn't
and then provide alternatives
like, the business people are just going to throw whatever they want at you in the hopes that it works lol
distant crow
yes, and whatever your role is, don't shy away from making it abundantly clear that you need something to do your job. People can't rightly blame you for making a reasonable request, they're either going to have to say "no" in which case it's on them for not being the "team player"
if you don't make the request, they can easily say "well he didn't ask", and sometimes that's how people get fired for doing nothing wrong
craggy elm
so much of our bad code is from people not being able to say 'no' lol
like, they just tried to appease the latest deadline without any pushback, regardless if the work was actually reasonable to do within the given time frame
shadow moss
sure, but few companies care what SWE has to say, esp when SWE bitches it can't be done then it gets done
technical debt is next MBA problem
mortal wedge
You pay the price when it comes to maintenance
craggy elm
You pay the price when it comes to maintenance
as the people above me are now realizing lmao
mortal wedge
I mean, I realize I'm getting paid big money due to this, but the code I'm working with right now makes me want to kill myself
craggy elm
also, it's one thing to say it can't be done and another thing to say it can't be done extensibly
mortal wedge
That's fair
craggy elm
that makes 2 of us lol
covert scaffold
I mean, I realize I'm getting paid big money due to this, but the code I'm working with right now makes me want to kill myself
@mortal wedge that's why you're being paid well
craggy elm
i have to redo large swathes of code because the person before just wanted to finish the job instead of wanting to finish the job intelligently
mortal wedge
I'll either be rich or I'll be dead. Works for me
That sounds like every group coding project I had in school
I basically wrote the whole thing. But looking back, it gave me good experience
shadow moss
UltimateChaos, if you do it right, YOU don't pay the price, your replacement does
mortal wedge
It's like when you break something. You fix it just enough so that the next person thinks they broke it 😄
white karma
Delightfully devilish
shadow moss
nah, just corporate development
crude folio
There's a few problems really. One of which is I'm the sole SWE employee working for a subsea vehicle company but being backed by a research team at a university. Sadly the team has no knowledge of how to actually implement software using their research and the company has no development knowledge or experience.
I've respecced the whole project with a new workplan. But to put it simply, the ceo was expecting a clone software to one of the biggest subsea platforms out there. Now realising that's insane, they've decided to purchase that software anyway...
So I'm kind of working on a project that won't be as good as what they'll have already nor be maintainable by the company as they have no dev capabilities.
But because of shitty management I can probably work away for the next year or so and still get paid
craggy elm
that's more or less what im doing, except for my situation is that the project is highky likely to get canned in a few years once more people start using it
vapid jay
But because of shitty management I can probably work away for the next year or so and still get paid
@crude folio I'd lap up the money and start making moves towards more stable places
this doesn't sound sustainable at all from the outside
craggy elm
im just cashing in the checks while improving my project portfolio
i have 3 years of emergency savings, so even if they laid me off for whatever dumb reason, it's not like it would really matter for me in the long run lol
craggy elm
more savings you have = more power you have to tell whoever to fuck off lol
craggy elm
im just extremely cautious by experience lol
mortal wedge
Reminds me of an anime I watched recently.
"The Hero is Overpowered but Overly Cautious"
vapid jay
love that anime
mortal wedge
It's pretty great
shadow moss
@crude folio BTDT as Sysadmin, stockpile cash and be looking for new job, as some point, the accountant will figure it out and let you go
vapid jay
ignore wenches acquire experience
crude folio
Thanks for the replies guys, made me feel better about the sitch. I guess what's bothering me is it should have been a really great step into the industry I want to get into and allowed me to learn what I need to... but nope
shadow moss
it's job experience which is never bad
craggy elm
when i was in college, i seemed to stand out purely on the basis that i had a single internship under my belt
vapid jay
what was that internship? @craggy elm
craggy elm
well, at the end of college, i had done about 3 internships.
first one was just making some bullshit MS access database for a factory.
2nd one was making a calculator in VBA for predicting how fast it would take to laser cut a part @ a factory
3rd one was at the place im hired at today, which is basically just development for a kernel that's used in data science stuff within the company
the 1st one was a bitch to get though, but after the 1st one, it got exponentially easier to get internships
mortal wedge
Same with jobs
craggy elm
that's what im counting on lol
mortal wedge
Just do your best to not get fired for at least a year
craggy elm
anyone familiar with doing remote work within the US for european countries?
kinda curious about how difficult it is
distant crow
well, this is your year for seeing things clearly, make the most of it
after all, it's 2020 Vision, amirite?
shadow moss
Beachtastic, I'm sure some people do but it's probably pretty rare, why hire expensive Americans?
lethal lynx
Hey all! I am new to Python and Django (not new to programming) and trying to switch my career to web development. Has anyone here switched/thinking of switching to web development after working in some other field/domain? Any suggestions how should I go about it?
woeful spruce
Beachtastic, I have had to build MS Access databases before. These people need to realize these are desktop databases and are very limited. Better than a spreadsheet, I guess. The fact you could build something like that is good, shows you are versatile.
reef kayak
Has anyone ever been in a situation when they got an email about an interview scheduled and has not seen it till a week later?
I check my email everyday and I saw that I got email saying that I have an interview to take and it is due tmr
reef kayak
The problem is I already have an interview tmr with another company
Should I email them about the situation and maybe they could extend the date?
reef kayak
It does
reef kayak
I sent an email but idk what will happen
I check my email everyday and I didn't see it at all till today
vapid jay
that seems kinda weird
reef kayak
Like I check it 24/7 from when I wake up till I go to bed
reef kayak
I emailed them about it but idk what they will say
reef kayak
I am just gonna have to face rejection and try to work harder
vapid jay
aiyah
mortal wedge
Hey, better 2 interviews than 0, at least?
tiny hawk
Any tips on a technical coding interview?
mortal wedge
I really recommend Cracking the Coding Interview. It's a great book if you have time before your interview. Otherwise practice leetcode questions, practice on a whiteboard, know your DSA
vapid jay
@lethal lynx I am getting a group together to study web dev. PM me if you are interested!
half light
@lethal lynx I am getting a group together to study web dev. PM me if you are interested!
@vapid jay what must i already know?
shadow moss
faderazor, you can email about it
but obviously, you realize it looks awful, "can't even keep their email straight, why should we hire such a candidate?"
vapid jay
you could say, this guy has so many companies vying for him he can't even get back to us in time!
shadow moss
most recruiters for internship don't think that way
I had 20 people for 2 positions scheduled for interview, now I have 19, HORRAY!
honest goblet
hi guys are there any data scientists here?>
gilded valley
Probably. Best to just hope and ask away
mortal wedge
^
honest goblet
i was wondering if things like kaggle
are worth it
because ive seen on online formums that it doesnt actually replicate real world data analysis
then i checked out people who hire jobs
idk the english for it sry
they said theyre sick of seeing kaggle competitions written on CV
or resumé or whatever its called
covert scaffold
If you win a kaggle competition, i dont see why not
honest goblet
yeah so thats also a main thing ive been thinking about
it doesnt actually help irl
and it kinda spoon feeds you
having done some of them myself
theres no room to think
so i guess im safer sticking to those course books and doing solo projects?
marsh wind
Any courses are fine as starr