#career-advice | Python | Page 353

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:25 PM

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(jk)

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:25 PM

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agreed, that is why I am trying to mention my proficiency levels

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:25 PM

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that gist

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:25 PM

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do strongest to weakest

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but don't list your strength level

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:25 PM

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without listing proficiency level?

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oh ok

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good tip

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:25 PM

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Yeah, there's two main strategies, list only your best skills to avoid cluttering up your resume or list all of them to make sure you have every possible relevant thing. If you wanted to split the difference you can list proficiency level

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But yeah, strongest to weakest, regardless

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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I wouldn't do proficiency level

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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what would you title it?

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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alternatively most relevant to your application

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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Skills: or Languages: imo

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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because if they are looking for decent with C++ and they see familiar with

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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would you title Skills (in order of proficiency)

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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oh I see

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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Yeah, or what meseta said

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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they might go "no" when they really don't need someone really that strong with it

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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You don't have to say in order of proficiency

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It's generally assumed

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 PM

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so basically leave it to interpretation until you get to face-to-face

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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The stuff near the front of your list is more likely to stick in their mind and be asked to you

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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although I think with highlighting it'll be fine, I don't think there's too much of a difference, but I'm not sure. the effect would be small as long as it's readable

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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or hiring manager after talking to you might go "Well, they aren't 100% fit" but this other soon to be open position is great

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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That or the stuff more relevant to the position

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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would you reorder your skills to better match the position?

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/470889390588035082/731258714496958554/unknown.png ^--- this, hell no

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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I tend not to look at skills lists if the skills already appear in the job history

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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Don't do this

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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not even going to mention the poor spacing on the semicolons

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 PM

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although I think with highlighting it'll be fine, I don't think there's too much of a difference, but I'm not sure. the effect would be small as long as it's readable
@distant crow more red for stronger skills 🤣

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:28 PM

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Add red hue for stronger skills and add blue hue for how recently you've used it 🙂

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:28 PM

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Python, Libraries: Django, Flask, tensorflow, pandas

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:28 PM

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^

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Keep it simple

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:28 PM

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Java, Repast Symphony, Docker, AWS EC2, gunicorn

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Move on to Job History

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maybe git if you want

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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Also, keep in mind highlighting/bolding won't show up when if it gets converted to plaintext

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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mix of RGB components: Red for strongest, blue for recent, green for job relevance

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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roffflll

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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wait no...that'll make the best ones white

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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Sounds perfect

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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whoops

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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yea

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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PERFECT

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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well, no other option: black background

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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if someone did that, I'd probably shred it

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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dark mode CV

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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if they are this complex with their resume, how complex is this code going to be

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:30 PM

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Instruct them to print it out on black paper

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:31 PM

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If I see a resume with a light-mode/dark-mode switch somehow embedded in the PDF (no idea how) I would be impressed

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:31 PM

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i'd say just put stuff down in the skills section of the resume without any proficiency level lol the projects/experience should be able to tell them your proficiency level

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:32 PM

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job search is 80% getting to human who will do evaluation on you with some thought

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that's biggest hurdle

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:32 PM

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proficiency is generally if you feel bad and want to assauge your moral guilt for putting Python on there even though you've coded only for like 16 minutes in the language

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Yeah, biggest hurdle is getting to a person

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:32 PM

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i say fuck it

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as long as you know you're competent at it, put it down

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:32 PM

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I have python on my resume and I've written about 1000 lines at work total

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:33 PM

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I got hired for a position that I knew would start one month from the time that involved Python

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Even though my Python was pretty minimal

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I did start a codeacademy class at the time 😄

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I know, I'm terrible, but I've been studying like crazy over that month to make sure I knew it by the time I started

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:34 PM

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fuck it lol

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:34 PM

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what do you use normally? @shadow moss

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:34 PM

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Powershell is my primary language

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:34 PM

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system admin?

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:34 PM

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i bet dev ops

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:34 PM

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along with seething hatred

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I'm Site Reliability Engineer (SRE)

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:34 PM

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Nice

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For FAANG?

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or uh

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FAANGULTAD

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or w/e

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:35 PM

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I plan on how the app will run and how not to make whatever awful mess of code you checked in crash and burn worse then it will

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Nope

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:35 PM

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gotcha

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:35 PM

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boring megacorp

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:35 PM

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ah yes, one of my kind

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:35 PM

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I just spend last 3 hours wondering why Azure Function was on 🔥

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:35 PM

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whatever pays the bills right?

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:35 PM

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yea

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:35 PM

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Gotta eat

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:36 PM

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i just check in and check out at 8 hrs

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and some guys put in like 12+

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:36 PM

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this better?

📎 unknown.png

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:36 PM

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their funeral lmao

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:36 PM

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what's with the red text?

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:36 PM

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and some guys put in like 12+
@craggy elm in a hope of promotion?

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:36 PM

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no, they just want to fix issues asap

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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kill the bolding

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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Salaried employees?

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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but here's the deal though at huge megacorps: the issues don't end

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yeah they're salaried

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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@vapid jay supposedly the theme of this latex doc, i might removethe red tho keep it plain o

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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so no OT?

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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that's why i tell them to cut it @ 8hrs

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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less formatting the better

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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I'd get why they'd do that as hourly

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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also remember, this has to go into word document

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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alrighty

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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or someone will try and make it a word document

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:37 PM

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wait, i am working on latex smh

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:38 PM

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because HR

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:38 PM

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@vapid jay they feel like they're responsible for everything that goes on there, so they put in extra time

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:38 PM

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LaTeX for this?

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oh I see

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:38 PM

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which is dumb

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:38 PM

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I'm going to be putting in crazy hours, personally

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But that's because I'm paid per project

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:38 PM

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that megacorp will layoff your butt second they think it will help their bottom line and even if it doesn't so executive can get a bonus

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:39 PM

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what is dumb, me making this on LateX or HR making it to Word? ;-;

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:39 PM

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HR making it to work

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:39 PM

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Yes

craggy elm Jul 10, 2020, 9:39 PM

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@shadow moss they've already done it to a ton of employees lol the only reason we're not affected is because if they lay us off, then their product is dead

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:39 PM

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A lot of places want all their crap in either word or pdf

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 9:39 PM

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thanks for the suggestions tho

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:39 PM

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though at my company it will go from LaTeX -> MS Word 2010 -> G Suite Docs because ROFLZ THAT'S WHY

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:39 PM

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Some only pdf, some only word. I keep a word resume and pdf resume handy

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:40 PM

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yea, PDF, Word

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I keep mine in Word and just have it convert to PDF if someone insists

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never had anyone reject word document for resume though

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:40 PM

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Yeah, that's easy enough

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Some places are picky/weird

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:41 PM

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oh, one company asked for it in G Suite Docs

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I declined

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:41 PM

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Rofl

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:41 PM

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now that I have G Suite at work, this is god awful

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:41 PM

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One company wanted me to fill out a hand written application >.>

weak tartan Jul 10, 2020, 9:41 PM

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o

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:41 PM

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but ot rant

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:41 PM

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I wrote out my resume because I was desperate but man

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Get with the times

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:42 PM

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I'd be afraid to work in a place like that

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what if they make me fill out bug reports by hand too?

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:42 PM

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That sounds awful

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:42 PM

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days I wish they would let me do that

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:42 PM

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oh god

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writing out reports by hadn

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would make me want to end myself

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:43 PM

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because ServiceNow/JIRA I think is worse

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:43 PM

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https://logological.org/word

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hehe

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:43 PM

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couldn't you just make a GUI to automate filling out jira?

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using AHK or something

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:43 PM

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saw this in the mail signature of few people

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:43 PM

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that's what I ended up doing on my company's internal ticket system

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:43 PM

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I think it has an API

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you wouldn't need AHK, you could do it in...python

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:44 PM

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the thing is so convoluted that you have to click a billion things just to fill out a couple of paragraphs

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python is a lot more verbose for doing simple tasks in my experience

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:44 PM

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Ah, jiira

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:44 PM

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at my company, you never knew when PM has made a field manatory for some reason

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so your "GUI" will explode because API is telling you to get bent

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:44 PM

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what's jira?

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:44 PM

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nah, brute-force the fields

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:44 PM

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yeah

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:44 PM

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bitbuchet issue system?

lavish geyser Jul 10, 2020, 9:44 PM

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jira is an issue tracker

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:44 PM

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it's defacto Agile/Scrum system

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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like at least put something in each field

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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it's much more then just "issue" tracker

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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like a placeholder val just in case a field is mandatory

lavish geyser Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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its atlassian

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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save your wrists and your sanity

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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well yeah, bitbucket is atlassian too 🙂

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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trello is atlassian too?

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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it is now

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they acquired it

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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Mangopudding, never know when field will be selected on and if you put in garbage data, some paper pusher will slit their wrists

lavish geyser Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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well bitbucket is an atlassian product

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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which you will see a positive

lavish geyser Jul 10, 2020, 9:45 PM

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just like jira

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:46 PM

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and trello now yeah

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:46 PM

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There are some upsides to being an indpendent contractor

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:46 PM

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trello is jira baby cousin

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:46 PM

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They just tell me what needs to be done and how to do it is completely up to me

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:46 PM

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given it's used so much, if you're not familiar already but you know of kanban and task tracking tools in general, you might as well go look at a youtube video of a jira tutorial, and then put it on your resume

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because let's be honest, most companies set up their Jira slightly differently, so there's always a bit to learn

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:46 PM

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imagine Trello, imagine if PM looked at it and said, how can make this process harder but appear to be adding value

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out comes Jira

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

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lol

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

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so why not have it on your resume?

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(better than not, right? just in case someone was looking out for it)

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

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oh man

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

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yea, if you know JIRA, I would add it

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so many companies use it

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

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my company's internal software is such an automation wet dream

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

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A lot of honest resumes would say something like "Spent most of my day trying to justify my paycheck"

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Definitely want to make sure youo're familiar with industry tools

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

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everything is built in Windows native C++ or something

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

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and that it's on your resume

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 PM

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so all the fields can be tracked

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I thought most people did actual work?

shadow moss Jul 10, 2020, 9:48 PM

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UltimateChaos, Amazon -> search -> "Bullshit jobs" -> Read -> get depressed

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:48 PM

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lol, a lot of it might be "I spend 90% of my time googling the error messages and trying the solution from the top answer in Stack Overflow. I claim to be an expert in three languages and five frameworks as a result"

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:50 PM

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I feel like 90% of a coding job is like... knowing where to find things you don't know

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Whether it's std docs, stack overflow, pydiscord 🙂 , or your coworker 😄

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:51 PM

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hehe yeah

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yesterday I was looking up something with other dev

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:51 PM

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wtf

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:51 PM

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and SO went down for few min

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:51 PM

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if you could automate search Stack Overflow automatically from the console

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you'd have your work done for you

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or top Google results

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:52 PM

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we started to make a joke about programmers going crazy cause suddenly they cant work

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:52 PM

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if you could automate search Stack Overflow automatically from the console
@vapid jay thank you for the idea

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:52 PM

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I know one company that has this stupid, STUPID practice.

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All first year employees don't get internet access

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:52 PM

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what do you plan to implement that in? @zinc fractal

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:53 PM

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........................................................ 🤦‍♂️

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:53 PM

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that sounds great, I know a guy who knows Python, Django/Flask, scikit-learn, tensorflow, pandas, matplotlib maybe he can help

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:53 PM

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what do you plan to implement that in? @zinc fractal
@vapid jay python

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maybe c++ when i learn it

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probably python

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:53 PM

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interesting

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you going to make it a function to open Google with a search query on exceptions?

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:54 PM

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yeah probably

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:54 PM

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I wonder if Stack Overflow has a mirror site to archive its stuff

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:54 PM

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i wonder if stackoverflow has an api

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:54 PM

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since most of the time, it's old answers we're looking for and not bleeding edge questions

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:54 PM

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but i dont think the project will be of much use since the error is very rarely enough to solve a problwm

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:54 PM

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I think Google does a better job presenting relevant questions for what little experience I have using it

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:55 PM

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i can use chromedriver for this

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maybe selenium too

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might be too slow tho

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:55 PM

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@mortal wedge could I bring stack with me on a HDD

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...

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:55 PM

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isn't there a plugin for some IDE for that?

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:55 PM

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Just download a bigger stack if yours isn't big enough

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:55 PM

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not sure, probably

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:55 PM

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if there is, please let me know

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:56 PM

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oh wait, haha now I get it

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:56 PM

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yeah

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archive the entirety of Stack Overflow

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but you know

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 9:56 PM

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I didn't take the job so I have no idea

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I think they expected it would improve productivity

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Or some shit

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:56 PM

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couldn't you just use money from your paycheck to get high quality internet on your hpone

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:56 PM

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i mean i'll most likely forget about this, but if i do make it i'll send you a link @vapid jay

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:56 PM

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and tether

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for your local machine

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like how would they know you were looking stuff up?

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 9:57 PM

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Just download a bigger stack if yours isn't big enough
are you saying that if I tried to download SO onto my hard drive it might be too large and overflow?

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:58 PM

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yeah

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overflow the stack

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:58 PM

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stackoverflow is probably around 10gb

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raw text

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:58 PM

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we are so off-topic now lol

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:58 PM

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give or take 20gb

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:58 PM

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man I think you severely underestimate it

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 9:59 PM

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wikipedia is 15gb with compressed images

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i have it on my hdd

obtuse thorn Jul 10, 2020, 9:59 PM

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^

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 9:59 PM

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plain text or archived?

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https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-size-of-the-Stack-Overflow-database

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 9:59 PM

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oh man

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is there a way to serve a text only version of stack

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to cut down the bloat of the site

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 10:00 PM

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so... 2.83 TB

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for SO

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:01 PM

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worth it to be able to search for solutions

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what is that in USD?

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https://www.amazon.com/WD-Blue-3TB-Hard-Drive/dp/B013HNYV42

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:01 PM

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it says approx 28.5gb for me

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:01 PM

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70 usd

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 10:01 PM

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that was estimaetion

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https://twitter.com/thefarseeker/status/789509612848291840

Mark Henderson (@thefarseeker)

@sonergonul Re https://t.co/5mspI0mjVJ - @Quora is hopelessly broken right now, so see this screenshot of just SO (no network sites).

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this was actual answer from SO engineer

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:01 PM

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wow I had no idea tb were this cheap

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 10:02 PM

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that likely includes backups and etc

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but still

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:02 PM

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i mean if wikipedia is 15gb stackoverflow cant be much more

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compressed, without user data

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basically only the db about posts and comments

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 10:03 PM

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oof

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 10:04 PM

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I have about 10gb wikipedia, up-to-date articles, no images

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hell of a time to decompress though

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:04 PM

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what's the purpose of holding wiki articles?

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:04 PM

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yeah

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 10:04 PM

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I was doing NLP on it

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:04 PM

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what's the purpose of holding wiki articles?
@vapid jay if they shutdown i can monetize my own wikipedia duh-doy

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nah jk

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:04 PM

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I'm sure others are way ahead of you

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:04 PM

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if i really need wikipedia and internet is down

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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couldn't they host it on torrent?

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delocalized wiki

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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its hosted on torrent

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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they literally offer a database dump of wikipedia

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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i downloaded it from a torrent

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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just wait until they start blocking that export

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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but you need to download the whole thing and decompress

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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slilppery slope from blocking tor network users

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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curious but what kind of NLP were you planning to perform?

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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one of cases when torrenting ain't illegal lol

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:05 PM

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they cant block torrents

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 10:06 PM

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list of wikipedia torrents is here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dump_torrents

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:06 PM

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you could just use a vpn or a proxy

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also a torrent is basically a more complex FTP

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way faster than downloading from most servers if the torrent has enough seeders

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also no need to pay for servers, which is why non profits use it

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also people would just use mega or dropbox to share movies

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ddl sucks tho

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some people rn are using telegram to pirate 2gb movies lol

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i still dont see how telegram can offer 2gb file hosting, when discord can only do 8mb free tier

distant crow Jul 10, 2020, 10:10 PM

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it's an upsell

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:11 PM

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what do you mean?

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 10:11 PM

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telegram has a good network to share these pirated stuffs

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

yeah but torrents is better

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

audiobooks, movies and what not

#

yeah, if you get good seeds, but again, its illegal

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

telegram is also illegal if using for pirated content

ionic flume Jul 10, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

that is what i meant

#

the sharing of pirated content is illegal

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

i still dont see how telegram can offer 2gb file hosting
is it lifetime?

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

until they run out of money

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

lol

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

then they might change something

#

im not joking

#

they said they might add paid services when they run out of startup money

marsh wind Jul 10, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

like you sure that for now those 2 GB won't expire in 1 month?

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

yes

#

they offered 1.5gb for a long time before

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

how do you know?

#

it's not a paid service is it?

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

its free

#

i've been following telegram for a while

#

i know that they use encryption algos made in house instead of industry standard

#

which is weird

#

and might not hold up against a large scale attack

#

they havent really been attacked

#

what do you guys think about that?

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

Well

#

It's what defense contractors do 😄

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

:D

mortal wedge Jul 10, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

Otherwise idk

#

I'm not really familiar with what's in telegram's wheelhouse

vapid jay Jul 10, 2020, 10:16 PM

#

telegram isn't open source though?

#

only the client

zinc fractal Jul 10, 2020, 10:17 PM

#

they did reveal what encryption they use

#

nvm i was wrong

#

https://core.telegram.org/file/811140746/2/CzMyJPVnPo8.81605/c2310d6ede1a5e220f

west pagoda Jul 11, 2020, 2:08 AM

#

most of the companies do

#

@zinc fractal

#

like

#

whats app uses AES 256 and an SHA 256 keys

#

and like

#

I don't know the encryption for instagram for now but sometime before it used SHA 1

#

now after facebook took over it I don't know for now

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 5:24 AM

#

Possibly relevant

#

https://www.quora.com/As-a-software-developer-who-is-not-good-at-programming-how-do-I-hide-myself-in-a-tech-company-and-not-get-caught-out

#

Probably depends on if you're willing to pay them

#

Then they probably can, yay!

#

Someone came by earlier asking for free work, lol

#

They didn't get a positive response

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

https://www.quora.com/As-a-software-developer-who-is-not-good-at-programming-how-do-I-hide-myself-in-a-tech-company-and-not-get-caught-out
@mortal wedge wish I had that problem

#

also makes me wonder how they got in that position in the first place

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

Some people are just naturally gifted at getting hired.

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 6:47 AM

#

where can I learn that power

glossy pecan Jul 11, 2020, 9:16 AM

#

Not from a Jedi

sudden reef Jul 11, 2020, 9:44 AM

#

I've learned a lot from social engineering and try to use it while job hunting.
Not too successful but I'm a lot less social awkward now 🙂

lapis bough Jul 11, 2020, 1:02 PM

#

what if someone acquires all professional skills and certificates?

#

from programming

#

like ML data sci and AI

#

and cloud AWS

#

what will be its value in real world?

#

and he knows to program apps and games and websites too

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 1:33 PM

#

life speedrun, 100% all certificates

blazing dew Jul 11, 2020, 1:36 PM

#

(glitchless)

#

I mean I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to acquire all professional skills and certificates

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 1:52 PM

#

yup, also people who quote really wide skillsets are sometimes considered unfocused. if you come to me saying you have 5 years programming experience and you know Python, JavaScript, Java, C++, C# and Rust, I would assume you have less experience in Python that someone with 5 years experience in only Python

#

yes, knowing other languages is a big benefit, but I don't believe someone can pick up six languages and be better at a job that only uses one than someone who spent the same amount of time focusing on one

#

I will say though, if someone focused on two languages, that might actually be better than someone who focused on one

viral ridge Jul 11, 2020, 1:57 PM

#

fundamentals, design and architecturing is what makes a strong coder

#

can easily pick up new langs, albeit c++ is a tooth puller

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 2:13 PM

#

yeah, you can pick up a new language. you can't as easily build up comprehensive experience with that language's library ecosystem. You can imagine someone who does javascript day to day saying "python's so easy, I learned python in a day". but did they learn to use flask, tornado, django, numpy, pandas, and all those common python libraries too in a day?

viral ridge Jul 11, 2020, 2:22 PM

#

or .net , numpy and angularjs^^

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 3:03 PM

#

also approaches in some advanced concepts like threading, async, multiporcessing etc can be quite different accross languages

viral ridge Jul 11, 2020, 3:54 PM

#

for ex?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

C#/.Net Core requests library is async by default

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 4:08 PM

#

does anybody know how coding interview questions work? like, if I program stuff then the program tells me if something is wrong and i correct it, how is it when it comes to an interview ?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 4:11 PM

#

lots of different types exist, I do two types: the one where you're in the room, and I tell you to whiteboard a problem
the one where it's remote, and the other person types into a web-based system, where I can see them type. these have an interpreter usually. I use Coderpad

#

but again, it depends what is being tested. for basic coding skills, it'll be a multi-part question that gets increasingly complex, but manly tests coding proficiency. in python, a basic assessment would involve the candidate writing some OOP code, I get them to use decorators a bit; maybe some light DI. Sometimes I have an API already set up for them to get data from and parse. Sometimes I give them incorrect documentation about the endpoint or what data it returns and see what happens

#

I want to see if they can figure out the problem, because if they implement the code correctly according to what I've told them about the endpoint, they'll encounter an error

#

I'm actually less interested in them being able to figure out the problem. I'm more interested in how, and what they ask me

zinc fractal Jul 11, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

if i lets say know Python, Go, C++, Sql, HTML/CSS, would that be considered unfocused?

#

or is unfocused only when you're learning different types of dev like ML, Web Dev, DevOps, etc

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

I want to see if they can figure out the problem, because if they implement the code correctly according to what I've told them about the endpoint, they'll encounter an error
@distant crow thanks! so what if someone for example forgets to add a little detail to their code which might cause it to not work? if I for example would normally then try to run it and instantly recognize the problem. that wont be possible on a whiteboard, so is it a negative point if you dont get everything correct, but would in general be able to fix the issue when trying to run the code once?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 4:36 PM

#

the online thing runs the code, so it'll give you syntax errors and stuff

#

on a whiteboard, it doesn't matter, those tests usually test for your knowledge and problem solving ability, not your ability to code without being on a computer

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

oh

sacred sonnet Jul 11, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

guys would be legit selling the same code to different people?

zinc fractal Jul 11, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

only if they know

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

Whiteboard tests tend to be pseudo code

#

If we want to watch you code, we give you a laptop that we project up onto conference room TV

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 5:47 PM

#

You're generally right, I've heard some that want real code on the whiteboard but I think that's pretty rare

#

They want to see if you know syntax without the help of IDEs and color highlighting I guess

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 5:50 PM

#

yeah, though you're kind of assuming the interviewer knows. I can never remember what the length function is. is it len()? is it length()? is it a .length() method? is it .len()?

#

... .size()?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 5:52 PM

#

That's why I'm not too worried about tree balancing questions, do the interviewers remember their compsci classes from college?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 6:05 PM

#

I hate testing syntax, it doesn't tell you anything

wanton mica Jul 11, 2020, 6:05 PM

#

is it to difficult for a beginner to find a job for python

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 6:05 PM

#

like for C#, people might forget to write ; at end of line because it's habit forming

wanton mica Jul 11, 2020, 6:05 PM

#

because for me it seems to be

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 6:05 PM

#

sure

wanton mica Jul 11, 2020, 6:06 PM

#

:/

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 6:06 PM

#

depends on your location

wanton mica Jul 11, 2020, 6:06 PM

#

i'm trying to find it online

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 6:06 PM

#

but beginning programming jobs are difficult in general

wanton mica Jul 11, 2020, 6:07 PM

#

in this online platforms it is more difficult to find the first job than 5 in a row

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 6:07 PM

#

and around here, exclusively python is pretty rare

wanton mica Jul 11, 2020, 6:07 PM

#

if you get the first one than it;s better

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 6:07 PM

#

Are you talking contracting>?

wanton mica Jul 11, 2020, 6:20 PM

#

?

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

yeah, though you're kind of assuming the interviewer knows. I can never remember what the length function is. is it len()? is it length()? is it a .length() method? is it .len()?
@distant crow do you look at personal projects of people?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

sometimes

#

when I'm feeling nosey

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

do you midn te

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

but also I like to discuss personal projects during interviews

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

mind telling me what such projects should look like?

#

from the difficulty level

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

about as long as a piece of string

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

i mean, i guess a rock paper scissors game isnt enough 😛

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

(which you can find using len())

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

🤔 what does that mean ?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

I think I compounded two jokes

#

"as long as a piece of string" is a phrase

#

"find length of string using len()" is an er...

#

I dunno what it is

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

a very basic code snippet

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

just read up the things written here yesterday, all good stuff. I wish I knew all of that immediately after I've left college.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

Yeah, I hear you

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

so, I still am quite confused

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

I'm a few years out of college and managed to get a Python job but I've never worked so hard for anything in my life

#

except maybe for graduating college

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

@distant crow are u located in the us ?

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

ok, I see you're in an "intense" moment now.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

macha, how long has it been since college?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:36 PM

#

no, I did work in SF for about 6 years though

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

I've also read that you're considering reading up stuff about ML and I can say that considering your background in DSP it's a quite doable thing to do.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

meseta, you're UK, right?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

yes

#

formerly san francisco

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

about 6 years for me.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

Ah, gotcha

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

are u american?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

no

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

They want to see if you know syntax without the help of IDEs and color highlighting I guess
@mortal wedge I'd be so screwed lol

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

where r u from then

#

uk?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:37 PM

#

tough question to answer

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

I depend so much on autocomplete and my own macros to help me do stuff better

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

also no

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

Mango, same

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

india?

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

does it really matter that much Armin?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

no... are we going to go through all the countries?

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

yes, in general no, but for my question, yes

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

why?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:38 PM

#

I want to learn everything. But finite amount of time and brain space prevents me from doing so 😛

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

because I am from germany, and if he is also from germany, i would like to ask him how he made the move to san fransisco from germany, as i would like to do that one day

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

it suffices to say that when someone says "they comin' here, stealing our jobs", that's me!

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

ok, that's fair enough.

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

why?
@gilded valley sorry, didnt want to force you to answer or anything

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:39 PM

#

for the UK - that just means you're from pretty much anywhere

#

we like a good bit of xenophobia

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:40 PM

#

@distant crow LOL

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

@distant crow so if you aren't originally from the us, may i ask you how you managed to move there ? like, did you apply from oversea, or what visa did u get ?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:41 PM

#

O1

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

is that the visa for geniuses?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

well... I wouldn't put it like that

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

x))

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:42 PM

#

it's not as hard as they would have you believe

#

you know, actors and athletes get O1 too

#

but I think if you have some career specialization, and you do need at least a Masters degree, it's worth considering over an H1B

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:43 PM

#

but i heard people basically prepares tons of papers with their achievements written on it in order to get that

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:43 PM

#

you never know, you might meet the requirements, just need to build a good case

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:44 PM

#

did you go there with that visa without having a job?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:44 PM

#

yeah, the application process was very long, not just loads of proof, but also references

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:44 PM

#

and apply while in the us?

#

damn sounds really difficult, might aswell just try the greencard lottery lol

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

If you're 100% set on the US, then moving laterally within a megacorp seems the easiest way

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:45 PM

#

yep, the L1 employee transfer visas

#

those are much easier to get, though maybe rules have changed since. not sure

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

you mean working at google in germany and transferring over is easier?

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

as I understand it, they're still quite difficult to get - but you just need to demonstrate value to the company

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

from a visa point of view, yes

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

i mean, doesnt EVERYONE want to move to sf ?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

but whether the company is willing, dunno

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

no

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:46 PM

#

no, I don't like it there

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:47 PM

#

doesn't seem like all that great of a place except for salaries

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:47 PM

#

food's good though

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:47 PM

#

yeah, but if you have the option of working your entire life here to buy a house or just move to sf for 3 years in order to make that money, i would guess that its worth it. even if its only for a short time 😄

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

I suppose, but not everyone has that as a priority

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

you can get very good salaries without being in SF. If all you care about is salary, then you have other ways to try and maximise that

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

for sure would be nice for that...

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:48 PM

#

you can get very good salaries without being in SF. If all you care about is salary, then you have other ways to try and maximise that
@gilded valley i guess you arent german ?

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

i'm not, I'm in the uk. But you could easily move to the UK, so it's irrelevant

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

you can get very good salaries without being in SF. If all you care about is salary, then you have other ways to try and maximise that
@gilded valley its a completely different dimension (germany - sf), from what i have seen/heard so far

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

well...

#

after Brexit, I'm not so sure you can any more

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

lmao

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

even then, the requirement is to be earning >30k

#

which isn't all that difficult for a programmer

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

maybe, I have no idea what the requirements will be any more. but yeah, you could be right

#

I think nowhere is harder to get into than the US for work

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

pretty sure they've been confirmed. Earning >30k, or less for some industries

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

ok, that's good to know

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

yeah, the US H1-B system is borked

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

and they're suspended at the moment.

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

I think nowhere is harder to get into than the US for work
@distant crow maybe true for programming

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:51 PM

#

that's a pretty universal thing across industries. H1-Bs are difficult to get

#

only 135k given out each year

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

that's a pretty universal thing across industries. H1-Bs are difficult to get
@gilded valley are u referring to me?

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

@meseta#6458 maybe true for programming
to that

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:52 PM

#

I've heard some interesting stories about visa, apparently a startup founder got an EB-5 investment visa by arguing that he founded a company that received a certain amount of investment, and that his entry to the US counted as him bringing that much value into the US

#

oh not EB-5

#

er... E2? the investment one

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

I used to date someone in SF, the food is pricey but AMAZING

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

without him having to actually put any money down

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:53 PM

#

to that
@gilded valley yeah, no I think for certain industries its a million times more difficult to get jobs in other countries. i am talking about specialisations like being a physician for example

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

I'm not sure I follow your point. The US is just a very difficult country to migrate to

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

I know the US hires a lot of coders from India

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

probably the most difficult, except for edge case stuff like North Korea

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:54 PM

#

I'm not sure I follow your point. The US is just a very difficult country to migrate to
@gilded valley but not for literally ALL industries imo 😄

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

in a general sense, probably for all industries. A physician can pretty easily get into any country in the world

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

Doctors should be able to get in without too much trouble right now, lol

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

absolutely not @gilded valley

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

if you invent a COVID vaccine, I'm sure you're going to get a free ticket

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

lol

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

where is it difficult to get into?

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

yeah

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

Please help, the government cut all covid vaccine funding

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

where is it difficult to get into?
@gilded valley i want to move to japan in the future. good luck trying to go there as a german doctor lol

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

ah, that is true, japan's immigration process is notoriously difficult too

#

though not for working there I think

#

just for trying to become a citizen

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

Japan's pretty xenophobic, yeah

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

and there's barely any benefits in working there from what I've read/seen

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

food is also good there

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

Mmhmm

#

Going to order some japanese food tonight

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

i heard its not too difficult for programming jobs, so the usa might be more difficult, but stuff like becoming a physician is a whole different territory

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

really crappy burocratic culture, salaries aren't good at all for IT

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

Japan's pretty xenophobic, yeah
@mortal wedge ?

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

it's a somewhat xenophobic country indeed, he's right.

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

my understanding is that too. they're just very polite about it at the same time

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

it's all about keeping up your appearance and not moving waves.

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

you guys experienced that by yourself?

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

there's a reason they're still using Fax

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

I've heard stories, but have experienced the politeness first-hand

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

I heard quite a few people saying that, who just repeated what they heard from others and never visited the country for a minute

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

@naive sentinel no, what I'm saying is based on what I've read/seen.

#

which puts me into that category

#

so take my thoughts with a grain of salt if you wish.

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:00 PM

#

Japan definitely has an image of xenophobia. IIRC someone on this server who worked there talked about it being an issue

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

yeah. I can tell you that I have experienced the exact opposite! so please don't think that what you have read/seen is what it is actually like 😄

#

everyone makes different experiences

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

you live in japan?

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:01 PM

#

and every place has its good and bad sides for sure

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

Well, the US is really xenophobic

#

Japan being xenophobic is just based off of stories I've heard

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

you live in japan?
@gilded valley i was there for a while, and know some stuff about the culture/people/language. I am not japanese myself tho :)!!

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

visiting isn't really the same as living/working there

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

I think there's overt xenophobia where they're in-your-face about it. and the less obvious ones like not being able to get citizenship

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:02 PM

#

^

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

Well, the US is really xenophobic
@mortal wedge i think its really harsh to say that a country is xenophobic. thats like saying germany is full of nazis, because there might still be a couple of them hiding somewhere

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

I think we've mentioned here that Japanese culture is very polite. you won't notice people being xenophobic by how they treat you day to day, in fact from what I can tell, they are extremely polite to people who look foreign

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Asia#Japan Wikipedia doesn't paint a great image either, although it's difficult to get a fair comparison between countries

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

@naive sentinel I stand by my statement

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

I come from a country that is also very xenophobic, and I treat that as fact

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

Also, Germany has actually been really good at abolishing Nazism

#

Probably more Nazism in the US than Germany at this point

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:04 PM

#

and also accepting asylum seekers

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:05 PM

#

@mortal wedge i think its really harsh to say that a country is xenophobic. thats like saying germany is full of nazis, because there might still be a couple of them hiding somewhere
That's an entirely unfair comparison. It's more equivalent to saying the US is a racist country. Either way this is definitely OT for this channel now

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:05 PM

#

Anyway, Python is great for getting a job!

#

😄

#

I'm so impressed with numpy and pandas

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Asia#Japan Wikipedia doesn't paint a great image either, although it's difficult to get a fair comparison between countries
@gilded valley I am not saying anyone here is right or wrong, but all I am saying (to everyone I talk to) is that you should always create your own picture of something and not let anyones opinion/experience influence you. doesnt matter if its your best friend or a wikipedia article 🙂

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

It's like I have matlab in the palm of my hand

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:06 PM

#

I probably should let a well cited wikipedia article influence my opinions rather than relying on purely anecdotal stuff

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

well I dont 😄

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

you probably should. Relying on opinions rather than scientific method is a very bad idea

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

i mean i dont rely on any opinions AND articles

#

i believe in what i see with my own eyes

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

which

#

you shouldn't

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

it's fine, whether japan is a xenophobic country or not isn't the hill to die on

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

that's anecdotal

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

I expect US H-1B processing to start back up again next year, esp if Biden wins

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

That would be nice

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:08 PM

#

I guess

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:09 PM

#

well if thats your opinion, than i probably can't change that. put now you atleast know that I have made a completely different experience from what you probably did read/heard so far. 🙂

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:09 PM

#

hopefully they keep the change where instead of lottery, they give it to highest salaries and work down

#

but I doubt that will remain either

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:10 PM

#

that seems like it would be biased towards large corporations who can afford that

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:10 PM

#

Just ditching the current system would make more sense. Arbitrarily limiting it to 135k doesn't make too much sense

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:10 PM

#

I'm a filthy liberal so I don't really want to limit legal immigration in the first place

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:10 PM

#

meseta as opposed to hiring cheap offshore stuck to their jobs workers?

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:11 PM

#

I don't present an alternative, just pointing out a consequence

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:11 PM

#

H-1B was supposed to be unique jobs that were hard to fill with Americans, it became a method of hiring cheap offshore, tied to their job, labor

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:11 PM

#

alternative seems like it should be a system that doesn't limit on amounts, and just lets people in based on some other criteria

meager jolt Jul 11, 2020, 7:11 PM

#

you atleast know that I have made a completely different experience
You just told us not to listen to other people's testimony...

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:12 PM

#

I'm not sure what criteria that would be Charlie or how it wouldn't be abused

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:13 PM

#

salary amount+some criteria on type of job+some criteria on the company pulling people in

#

same as what most countries around the world do

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:13 PM

#

Sure, I just have little faith it would be done right

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:14 PM

#

No matter how you set the criteria, there's gonna be a big issue with net migration in the first few years. Either too few or too many people, but it could settle reasonably well

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:14 PM

#

You just told us not to listen to other people's testimony...
@meager jolt if he wouldnt listen to me, then he wouldnt have to listen to his past sources aswell lol

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:14 PM

#

I don't want to dwell too much on the topic, but I hate it when people start invalidating a serious issue such as racism.

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

I'm just saying well sourced wikipedia article is a pretty good source. Some guy on the internet isn't

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

Especially on the basis of "I haven't seen it personally, lalala, it doesn't exist"

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

neither is personal experience

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

You just told us not to listen to other people's testimony...
@meager jolt also as i said
@gilded valley I am not saying anyone here is right or wrong, but all I am saying (to everyone I talk to) is that you should always create your own picture of something and not let anyones opinion/experience influence you. doesnt matter if its your best friend or a wikipedia article 🙂
@naive sentinel also as i stated here, i am not saying that anything is correct or not correct and just stating my opinion/experience 😄 what he makes out of it is his own choice :)!!

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:16 PM

#

on that note, I'm going to go do some more programming so that I can continue to get better at stealing native people's jobs

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:16 PM

#

meseta, keep it up 😉

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:16 PM

#

@meager jolt also as i said
@naive sentinel also as i stated here, i am not saying that anything is correct or not correct and just stating my opinion/experience 😄 what he makes out of it is his own choice :)!!
@naive sentinel but if you listen to one opinion, it would be weird to not listen to another hehe. either both or none 😛 thats just my opinion tho 😛

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

@distant crow hah - jokes on you. We don't want the jobs anyway

#

just to complain about not having them

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

I'm in support of immigration at macro level, it's just with most things in United States, we do poor job of dealing with effects of something so we get cranky at cause

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

i am also going back to some python tutorials lol

#

was nice chatting with you guys

#

👍

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:18 PM

#

I mean, if you set the salary requirement at 100k or something, then the effects probably wouldn't be too extreme

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:18 PM

#

100k is nothing

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:18 PM

#

well, top 20% of incomes then

#

no idea what that actually is for the US

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:18 PM

#

I'm just in support of "top salaries"

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:18 PM

#

that's also quite complex, because cities where salary is that high anyway are going to be able to get H1B workers, and cities where they're not aren't

#

100k in SF is a junior developer

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:19 PM

#

I just think limiting it to 135k a year doesn't make that much sense. Setting it to a system where it's based on demand for employees makes much more sense

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:19 PM

#

At that point you're just limiting it to city, imo

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:19 PM

#

demand for employees is millions

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:19 PM

#

demand for employees earning 250k> isn't in the millions though

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:19 PM

#

Sure

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

(or whatever number, I don't care, just pick one)

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

Facebook doesn't need that many employees

distant crow Jul 11, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

at 250k you'd just be applying to an O1

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

Facebook doesn't need US employees to begin with

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

not really

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

they can have offices anywhere in the world

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

~~and US doesn't need facebook tbh~~

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:22 PM

#

doesn't need Instagram either

#

Facebook is for boomers if you dont agree then you are a boomer

#

or tiktok or snappychat

#

lemon_glass

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:23 PM

#

this conversation went from dumb to dumber real quick

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:23 PM

#

it's for older millennials then got invaded by boomers when we started not to give a shit that our parents knew what we were doing

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 7:23 PM

#

haha, too true.

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:24 PM

#

Sure mom, I'll friend you on Facebook, it's just wedding/baby pictures at this point

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:24 PM

#

literally every single student I know uses messenger

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:24 PM

#

settle down, you are getting mighty rustled

#

messenger or whatsapp?

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

messenger

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

people use that? I thought it was all WhatsApp?

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

No, messenger is by far the most dominant

#

people do use other things, but messenger is the common denominator

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

Fb messenger ?

balmy mural Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

Not a single person I know uses messenger

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

I just use SMS/iMessage but that's standard American

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

Actually, even I do use that

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

Main thing I use wapp for is work stuff

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

But i only use facebook for business

balmy mural Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

WhatsApp is the main thing everyone uses here, with telegram coming in second

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

ok boomer

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

I wish more people would swap to Telegram

#

or signal

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

this is getting really off topic people.

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

this

#

a question for OT

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:27 PM

#

a question for Google

#

Does anyone here work at riotgames ?

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

I deeply hate messenger

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

I need it for uni and other random interactions with students

#

it's the go to way of communicating

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

I'm stuck with messenger because we do a lot of communications with folks overseas

#

But I don't like it

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

there's no alternative front end for messenger is there?

#

minus the bloat and tracking

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

there is Messenger Lite

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

None that I can think of that's already as widespread

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

but that's still FB made/produced

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

I can do with what's up, telegram, slack, discord.... But messenger, especially on mobile for me is terrible UX

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

UX isn't really a problem for me. Although I do use Messenger Lite

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

it's not the UX but the tracking I dislike

#

and the battery

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

We use slack at work it's really not bad

#

But I'd maybe prefer discord lol

#

Especially since we are stingy on that side so we run for now on free slack tier

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

I like Slack, it's slightly worse than Discord - but still very nice

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

How realistic is it to get a FAANG job btw ? Like sometimes i feel like I am understanding simple stuff after a couple hours. Then I see how you guys create crazy projects and realise what a noob I am. I can't imagine what kind of beasts people at FAANG are ? Like, how difficult is it really to get a job there ? Do they take like 1 out of 50000 applicants ?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

How's Discord's encryption

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

I like slack

#

there's a really nice third party front end for it that is pure functionality

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

@vapid jay Depends on how good you are at 1) Landing Interviews and 2) Passing interviews

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

~~Discord just sends messages over HTTPS~~ actually, i dunno - but encryption isn't a selling point for Discord

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:37 PM

#

Those are skills that don't necessarily have anything to do with the job you'll perform

#

I've had FAANG interviews, but sadly they were before I really learned how to pass coding interviews, so I didn't get them

#

I'm personally okay with making less money at a smaller company that's doing interesting things, though

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

Charlie, Discord is HTTPS between client on their servers

#

but it's not stored encrypted on their end for anything

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

I'm just wondering how realistic Discord would be for communication on something the DoD would work on

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 7:40 PM

#

I saw somewhere tho they want to go expand beyond gaming and fan communities

#

so perhaps they plan to have some kind of a plan for business with encryption and etc

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

DoD might be ok with Discord but biggest hurdle would be getting all regulatory stuff

pale remnant Jul 11, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

Hey, from the perspective of a self-taught python newb (who knows SQL and some JS) ,seeking to start a developer/data science career, which of the Pearson AWS Certificates worth pursuing?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

none of major business chat providers are E2E

#

Slack/Teams/GSuite Chat

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

they dont?

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

a big issue with Discord is that you can't discuss customers on there because of GDPR issues

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

Teams 🤢

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

although I guess you shouldn't on any platform

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

Yeah, I don't see how that would be unique to Disco

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

you can on Teams/Slack/GSuite Chat (maybe)

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

what about good ol' IRC

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

you can't discuss customers on there because of GDPR issues
why so?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

Use AIM

#

😄

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

bcs customers data stored on 3rd pary servers?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

You could grab anyone's IP if they sent you a message

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

That would make Discord a subprocessor of customer data

#

yeah, essentially

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

GDPR is fun

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

so is Microsoft/Amazon/Google

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

@vapid jay Depends on how good you are at 1) Landing Interviews and 2) Passing interviews
@mortal wedge actually i am interested in knowing if its also difficult to even land an interview to begin with ? if yes, how would people without a degree bbe able to compete with people with a masters or even just a bachelors?

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

Hey, from the perspective of a self-taught python newb (who knows SQL and some JS) ,seeking to start a developer/data science career, which of the Pearson AWS Certificates worth pursuing?
@pale remnant what's your background?

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

you might be able to do it with Discord. But having Discord as a subprocessor is a bad look, and they might not like it

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

I've had FAANG interviews, but sadly they were before I really learned how to pass coding interviews, so I didn't get them
@mortal wedge cant you apply again?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:43 PM

#

Landing an interview can be very difficult, yes. Honestly, I don't know how you'd be able to compete at FAANG without a degree.

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

biggest issue with Discord would be all logging

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

Some FAANG companies have restrictions with how often you can apply. I could apply again, but atm I'm actually quite happy with what I've got going on.

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

for FAANG without degree you;d probably need years of experinece

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

businesses demand logging, I should able to search a business discord server for X and receive all messages about X regardless if they are DMs/edited/deleted

pale remnant Jul 11, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

@pale remnant what's your background?
@marsh wind thanks for responding. I have a manager/sales/admin background and am comfortable with technology and statistics - have worked in baseball operations and managed people in other jobs.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

You'd probably have to remove the ability to edit/delete on business servers

#

For all but a select few people

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

Teams allows editing

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

Yes, but as established, teams is 🤢

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

but they keep a copy in vault of original/edited message

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

logging wouldn't be all that much of an issue for smaller companies. Pretty easy to log public messages

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

Okay, fair

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

Some FAANG companies have restrictions with how often you can apply. I could apply again, but atm I'm actually quite happy with what I've got going on.
@mortal wedge nice! I personally am always striving to maximize the salary, and if its possible to make some more, then I'd definitely go for it 👍

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:45 PM

#

I mean your options as business are Teams, meh, Slack, pretty good, GChat, shit

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

If you want to maximize your salary, strive for FAANG(ULTAD)

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

you also have stuff like Rocket chat, or Gitlab's slack competitor

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

ULTAD?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

Uber, Lyft, I can't rememer all of them

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

@pale remnant seems to me you would be better served on continuing in a people manager role

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

Dropbox, AirBnB

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

Thank you

#

Dropbox and AirBnB

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

I was referring to 90% of market

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

how likely is it to get a job there ? I cant really create an idea of how the chances are AT ALL...

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

most companies use either Slack/Teams/GChat

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

Again, depends on your ability to land an interview and ace the interview

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

@pale remnant having that said, AWS certificates are for sure good to have if you're gunning for a SRE role. For data science they aren't really relevant, for sw dev might be a bit more relevant.

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:48 PM

#

yeah, but that goes for even a job at mcdonalds

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:48 PM

#

Sure

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:48 PM

#

but FAANG isnt mcdonalds

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:48 PM

#

Are you willing to invest the time into learning how to write a good resume, network, create an online portolio, etc?

pale remnant Jul 11, 2020, 7:49 PM

#

@pale remnant having that said, AWS certificates are for sure good to have if you're gunning for a SRE role. For data science they aren't really relevant, for sw dev might be a bit more relevant.
@crude crown thanks for your response. That makes sense.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:49 PM

#

Especially if you're doing anything regarding Cloud computing

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:49 PM

#

it also depends on company and location

#

some companies like to see certifications, some could care less

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:49 PM

#

so i would guess that there are some things people who get jobs there do different than others, who might have the skills to get a FAANG job, but didnt manage to get in. (I am thinking of coming from an ivy league school, or getting certain internships or similar things)

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:50 PM

#

It's a well known issue in the tech industry, you'll always be accidentally turning down qualified people

#

🤷‍♀️

#

No real solutions for it, companies try their best

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:50 PM

#

There's all sorts of different ways to get into Google et al

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

Google is huge

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

good university or good experience are good ways to be able to get interviews

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

FAANG you probably want at least a couple years of experience out of school in the industry. Or have interned with FAANG in the past or just have an exemplary scholastic record

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

yeah, but that goes for even a job at mcdonalds
@naive sentinel people really be acting like getting a job at mcds is easy though

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

Alphabet has 119k employees and probably another 2x worth of contractors

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:51 PM

#

sry im really in the "investment banking job hunt" mindset of trying to go to an ivy league get good grades/internships/network OR you "will not get any offer". I am not sure how it is like in CS, like, does the school matter that much for example?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

Huh, Alphabet leans on contractors that hard?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

most companies do

#

contractors bring some advantages like ability to instantly fire them

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

I mean, I'm a contractor myself.

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

I'm at a shit tier university, and currently interning at a massive asset management firm. There's tonnes of different ways to get employed at good places

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:52 PM

#

Armin, it's not about not getting any offers, it just means how much harder you'll have to work for it

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 7:53 PM

#

FAANG you probably want at least a couple years of experience out of school in the industry. Or have interned with FAANG in the past or just have an exemplary scholastic record
@mortal wedge so i guess its similar. basically good school leads to -> good internships leads to -> google job offer ?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:53 PM

#

like Microsoft is well known for abusing it's v-

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:53 PM

#

What you do in college can drastically increase your chances of getting a good job, yeah

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:53 PM

#

like Microsoft is well known for abusing it's v-
@shadow moss v?

#

I don't get it

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:53 PM

#

you can get interviews at FAANG without good schools. I know of people who are at Amazon from my trash uni

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:53 PM

#

refers to their email address

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:53 PM

#

@shadow moss I'm just not used to seeing contractor roles when I'm applying at FAANG

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:54 PM

#

Microsoft contractor emails starts with v-

#

so if you see v-rabbit@microsoft.com it's a contractor

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 7:54 PM

#

TIL

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:54 PM

#

oh I see

#

didn't know that

#

why do they make that difference?

#

distinction

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:54 PM

#

I know someone at a top tier CS school, and it's basically trivial (and even slightly looked down upon!) to get interned at Amazon

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

looked down on?

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

Contractors in big firms are very weird. Some of the time they're paid much more than normal staff, some of the time the only difference between them and normal staff is a badge colour and salary/benefits

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

why?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

Like, they're literally worrying that recuirters will look down on them for having interned at a company "beneath them" like Amazon

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

I thought about that

#

someone I know worked at Amazon and i thought

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

Mango, I can't personally relate, lol. When he told me he was thinking of turning it down and I told him he was an idiot.

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

at many companies, contractors have seperate bag colors

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

what if companies after look at it and think they might look down on our company?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

like mine, grey is employee, yellow is contractors, in certain meetings, yellow badges are forbidden from attending

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:55 PM

#

Rip

#

I get it though

#

It's a legal thing, at the very least

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:56 PM

#

and we are well known for abusing contractors

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:56 PM

#

You can't tell contractors to attend regular meetings

#

You can't just contract an employee to make them a regular employee without benefits

#

Companies love doing that shit

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:56 PM

#

oh, you don't want to work nights, well then, let me make a phone call to our UST account rep and get a new contractor

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:56 PM

#

@mortal wedge you can and companies do

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:56 PM

#

oh, you don't want to work nights, well then, let me make a phone call to our UST account rep and get a new contractor
@shadow moss So basically, Microsoft is garbage >.>

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:57 PM

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I'm not Microsoft

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Oh

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Big rip

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Contractor abuse

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Microsoft has green badges

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for their contractors

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Contractor abuse is renowned for being a thing in the tech industry

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:57 PM

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Charlie, in the US it's supposed to be illegal to tell a contactor how and when to work, regularly attended meetings goes against that

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:57 PM

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many companies, Microsoft/Facebook/Google/Mine (which isn't FAANGUAKTLA whatever)

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independent contractors yes

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:58 PM

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I'm not sure if you're understanding the idea of contractor correctly

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:58 PM

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but they are not independent contractors

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:58 PM

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Oh, sorry

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 7:58 PM

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contractor just means not directly employed by MS or whatever

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:58 PM

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I'm thinking independent contractor

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Since that's what I am

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:58 PM

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they are employees for say UST Global and we contract with them to provide "temporary" workforce

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:58 PM

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Gotcha

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:59 PM

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you can make independant contractors show up for regularly scheduled meetings if it was a customer meeting they should be attending

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 7:59 PM

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There's a line somewhere

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Where companies can't/shouldn't just 1099 all their employees to cut costs

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 7:59 PM

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we almost never hire 1099

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it's all employees of contracting firm

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:00 PM

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Companies see contractors as a cheap way to massively scale workforce up or down

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but it obviously doesn't work too well in practice

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:00 PM

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it works well in practice

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:00 PM

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I know someone at a top tier CS school, and it's basically trivial (and even slightly looked down upon!) to get interned at Amazon
@mortal wedge so ivy league pretty much guarantees atleast an amazon job ? haha

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:01 PM

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because in United States at least, unemployment/COBRA and all that is handled by your former employer

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:01 PM

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Pretty much

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:01 PM

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so if we "fire" a contractor, all that becomes other company problem

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:01 PM

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Gotcha

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I still call contractor abuse 😛

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:01 PM

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does amazon pay as good as the others tho? (like 200 all in first year?)

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:01 PM

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Well. I'm just parroting what I heard from some SVP at a megacorp. They used to see contractors as a way to massivley scale up their IT workforce to push products faster, but the quantity over quality approach worked poorly and burned them - now they're switching to more targeted recruitment in the big tech hubs of the world

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Yeah, all the FAANG companies pay a ton

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:02 PM

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like we didn't fire you Mr. Contractor, we just discontinued your contract, your other company fired you

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Yeah, all the FAANG companies pay a ton
@mortal wedge why the duck do people look down on amazon then lol#

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Amazon pay is combo of base salary + bonus and stock options

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stock options is big money but it takes 3 years to vest

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Armin, some people are just elitist

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Amazon are known for treating junior employees like shit

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Armin, some people are just elitist
@mortal wedge me for example, but i wouldnt mind an amazon job aswell i guess

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:03 PM

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they have rapid turnover for a lot of positions

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:03 PM

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XD

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:03 PM

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like 6 months

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:03 PM

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Charlie, our quanity over quality approach doesn't work well either BUT it's tooooo cheap not to do

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:03 PM

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I'm an independent contractor, but my company really likes me and they're treating me well. I have no complaints.

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Well okay they're kind of slow to get back to me sometimes.

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But they're good people.

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:04 PM

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don't turn on read receipts lol

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:04 PM

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I don't underestimate the value of good people anymore.

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:04 PM

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that'll just make you more sadder

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@mortal wedge you probably still drive a lambo tho

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lemon_glass

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:04 PM

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Charlie, our quanity over quality approach doesn't work well either BUT it's tooooo cheap not to do
Throwing 500 Indian contractors at a problem for 6 months seems like even if it solves the problem, it's not gonna be a long term fix

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:05 PM

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I'm currently making over threetimes what I made at my last job, so I'm quite happy

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:05 PM

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I'm currently making over threetimes what I made at my last job, so I'm quite happy
@mortal wedge usa?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:05 PM

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Yes

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:05 PM

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what kind of raise is that lol

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:05 PM

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An amazing one

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I moved jobs/locations.

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:05 PM

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It's not but again, you can get 5 offshore Indians for price of one American

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:06 PM

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do you mind telling me what position you are in? like.. junior..senior..?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:06 PM

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Lol Charlie, like companies care about anything beyond this quarter's earnings

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:06 PM

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I suppose there's enough problems in the world where quality doesn't even really matter that much

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:06 PM

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Armin, I'm not really sure. They're changing their business model and I'm well qualified in the niche they need.

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:06 PM

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and what's funny is we are slowing down our offshoring to India and spinning up offshoring to Latin America

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:07 PM

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Rabbit, how many employees does your company have? Rough estimate

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:07 PM

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better TZ for us

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:07 PM

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Armin, I'm not really sure. They're changing their business model and I'm well qualified in the niche they need.
@mortal wedge but you are working since a couple of years already, correct?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:07 PM

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Oh, I think you mentioned it's a megacorp?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:07 PM

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let me look at most recent statements

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:07 PM

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Recently, I've seen companies talking about moving away from short term share price oriented thinking, to longer term thinking. I can't tell if that's just because I'm young, and it's 100% bullshit, or whether companies actually mean that

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:07 PM

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I'd say it's BS.

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:07 PM

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we have 13k employees but ton more contractors

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:08 PM

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that's why I'd guess as well, but I can try to hope it's not @crude crown

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:08 PM

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Armin, actually, I've been unemployed for the last two years. But I learned the skills of getting and acing a resume like it was my job.

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:08 PM

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@mortal wedge whats your guys salary in the us? I think its rude to ask you for yours, but like.. what can I you expect in general after a couple of years ? Is 100-150k normal for the average guy ?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:08 PM

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sometimes I deal with Teams that is one $megacorp employee and 40 contractors

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:08 PM

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@vapid jay I'd say so, yes

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:08 PM

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Or more like 60-80k and 100 for seniors ?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:08 PM

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I also negotiated my salary

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:08 PM

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don't hold your breath on that Charlie, always assume the short term hypothesis.

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:09 PM

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Armin, actually, I've been unemployed for the last two years. But I learned the skills of getting and acing a resume like it was my job.
@mortal wedge you managed to land a job after 2 years of nothing ?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:09 PM

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Yup!

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:09 PM

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that's amazing man

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:09 PM

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@mortal wedge you managed to land a job after 2 years of nothing ?
@naive sentinel
Yup!
@mortal wedge woa

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:09 PM

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Thank you 🙂

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I've never had to work so hard in my life, haha

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:09 PM

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a gap like that is REALLY hard to surpass

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:09 PM

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im happy it worked out

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:09 PM

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Thank you. It really is.

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:09 PM

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ifduo, at major East Coast US City, last year according to my tax return, I made about 108k before taxes

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:10 PM

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especially in North America from what I read, around here in Europe there's more leniency on that IME.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:10 PM

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Yeah, that's accurate

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:10 PM

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especially in North America from what I read, around here in Europe there's more leniency on that IME.
@crude crown IME ?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:10 PM

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in my experience

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:10 PM

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I'm probably underpaid but meh

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:10 PM

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yup, In My Experience

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:10 PM

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how long have you been working @shadow moss ?

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:11 PM

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@shadow moss thanks for sharing!! Are you a senior in the company ?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:11 PM

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negotiating salary is scary

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:11 PM

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by title, no

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by experience yes

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Charlie, I entered workforce BEFORE iPhone was released

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:11 PM

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Rabbit, is that salary or total compensation?

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:11 PM

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so your jump was from your previous gig, which was 2 years ago?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:11 PM

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that's total with meh bonus I get

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:11 PM

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Oh. What's your field? Did you mention SRE?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:12 PM

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Yep, I'm now SRE, before that, Office365 Consultant, Exchange Engineer, Sysadmin, HelpDesk

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:12 PM

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Did you go to university?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:12 PM

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Hey, very nice!

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:12 PM

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yes but did not graduate

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:12 PM

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Way to work your way up

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That's definitely awesome for not having a degree

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:12 PM

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actually I see a lot of SRE people with a path like that

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by I see I mean here in my country.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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Germany?

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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@shadow moss I am not sure if i can expect more now or not xD doing my bachelors and might get a masters

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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Southern Europe

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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Gotcha

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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from what I hear, masters in IT/Software is worthless

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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Big rip

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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Armin, actually, I've been unemployed for the last two years. But I learned the skills of getting and acing a resume like it was my job.

@mortal wedge galaxy brain play right there

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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it really depends on what you intend to work on Charlie

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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^

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:13 PM

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yes but did not graduate
@shadow moss have you ever wanted to work at a faang?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:14 PM

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Machine learning, defense contractor algorithms.... Master/PHD will help there

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:14 PM

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that's why I specified IT/Software. If you want to do data science, it helps a lot

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:14 PM

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If you intend to work in a "regular" SW Dev role, I generally agree with you on that.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:14 PM

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There's a top tier company in my area that ONLY hires PHDs for entry level positions

naive sentinel Jul 11, 2020, 8:14 PM

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from what I hear, masters in IT/Software is worthless
@gilded valley i heard that in switzerland lots of people get it ?

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:14 PM

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defense contractor doesn't sound at all right. Defence companies near me never seem to ask for masters

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:15 PM

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I do not

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at this point in my life, that sounds exhausting

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:15 PM

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Hmm. Probably some attribute of the ones I was applying to and the roles I was looking for

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:15 PM

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@naive sentinel I'm not sure. I think it might be more prevalent, the one swiss person i know is going to do a masters

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:15 PM

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I'm pretty much exclusively in algorithm development

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:15 PM

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I am quite worried about not not making good money and starting at 50k just to work for 15 yrs to get to 100k ugh. I want that goodlife ugh

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:16 PM

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Google is meant to have a relaxed work culture right?

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:16 PM

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All these http request modules and django stuff in #python-discussion make my head spin 😛

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:16 PM

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just jump around man

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and exaggerate your previous/current wage if they push you to give a number.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:16 PM

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In tech, unless you find a really good company you love, it's totally normal to jump around in order to get a raise

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:16 PM

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jump around in tech esp at beginning

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1-2 years max

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:16 PM

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In the UK I have a reasonable job offer for when I graduate. That maps to about 50k usd

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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if I was running a tech company, I would fire any employee after 5 years, they are probably stagnating and hoarding

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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just 1099
?

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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including the CEO Rabbit? : D

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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@marsh wind It's a tax/benefit thing

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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or other exec people?

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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CEO I would just execute

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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You're not legally obligated to give 1099 employees benefits.

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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but that's getting into politics

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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those tend to be the ones that linger on the longest time (for obvious reasons)

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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Benefits take up around 30% of total compensation package

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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There's a top tier company in my area that ONLY hires PHDs for entry level positions
@mortal wedge what the actual f

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@gilded valley i just couldnt accept that if i would know that i could technically make thrice that at FAANG 😦

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:17 PM

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CEOs actually don't stick around most companies that long

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:18 PM

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Some companies can get away with it, Mango

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:18 PM

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get in, make some changes, declare success and move on

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 8:18 PM

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There's a top tier company in my area that ONLY hires PHDs for entry level positions
@mortal wedge is that some fancy AI startup?

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:18 PM

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depends on the companies... over there in the US they like to jump around a lot.

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:18 PM

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Well, the US has much higher salaries for software than in the UK, but yeah, it does grate knowing that FAANG jobs pay a bunch more

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:18 PM

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Nope, well established company

marsh wind Jul 11, 2020, 8:18 PM

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interesting

#

fintech?

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investement/hedgefunds stuff?

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:19 PM

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doesn't sound like it.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:19 PM

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I could almost double my salary going to FAANG but tbh I'm kind of a modest person. I'd rather be doing really meaningful work than increasing my salary.

crude crown Jul 11, 2020, 8:19 PM

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jane street level stuff I might believe for quant positions.

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:19 PM

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Once my salary is high enough that I don't have to stress about normal life stuff, ofc

shadow moss Jul 11, 2020, 8:19 PM

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I know someone who works at investment company that builds models, minimum to get hired is Master, Doctor encouraged after couple years for data division

vapid jay Jul 11, 2020, 8:20 PM

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@mortal wedge its funny, I actually don't care about if my work would be meaningful or anything, but would much more focus on the salary

mortal wedge Jul 11, 2020, 8:20 PM

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@marsh wind It's a cutting edge biomedical company

gilded valley Jul 11, 2020, 8:20 PM

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The smaller the company, the more exclusive they are in terms of requirements