#career-advice | Python | Page 346

fringe plume May 22, 2020, 1:41 PM

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I lived in antwerpen and traveled through bxl to mons every day for about half a year ^^

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 1:41 PM

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I lives there atm

fringe plume May 22, 2020, 1:41 PM

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a'pen is a nice place

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mons is a bit of a redneck place

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hehe

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 1:41 PM

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People would answer to me in dutch just because of my french accent when i address them in english

fringe plume May 22, 2020, 1:41 PM

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haha

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 1:42 PM

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and official papers cant be given in english or french

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in flanders

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its multilingual but they're not allowed to print paper in official language of the country

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I'm leaving for NL but they're way better with english

fringe plume May 22, 2020, 1:43 PM

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don't need to go all the way cross the border really

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antwerpen is already as english as it can get

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if I try to speak dutch they'll tell me in english I speak great dutch

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😛

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idk why they harras you over french accent for it

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 1:44 PM

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because they think im wallon

fringe plume May 22, 2020, 1:44 PM

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only in blx the city itself do ppl actually speak both languages

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 1:44 PM

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when i tell im french, most do like

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ouf

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and relax

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so far, South NL and North Belgium are pretty different regarding work culture, in my own experience

fringe plume May 22, 2020, 1:47 PM

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might as well be 2 different countries with a 3rd country in the middle surrounding bxl

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 1:47 PM

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yeah

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and if you listen to flemmish they'll be like west flanders and limburg are different countries too XD

fringe plume May 22, 2020, 1:48 PM

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haven't actually been to limburg

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just apen ghent and bruges

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 1:48 PM

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not much to see except a club in hasselt i think

prisma timber May 22, 2020, 3:14 PM

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Haha

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 3:25 PM

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aaahh

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 4:38 PM

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Hello everybody, I am in last year of electrical engineering undergraduation and I was wondering what is the best path to get a job in FANG companies as a software engineer or machine learning engineer. The question take into consideration what degrees is recommened, specialization or just some internships in some startups while studying bu myself. What do you think about a master?

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I am very undecided about what would be the best choice after finishing the undergraduate program.

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:04 PM

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Afaik you can interview from any background but some FANG like Google have a lot of PhD among their soft dev/SREs

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If you want to do cs or machine learning, a degree will certainly give a easier time to find a job in general

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:09 PM

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@shut geyser Ok, so a master in softwere engineering would be the best choice?

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:10 PM

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Yeah, i suggest you look at their interview process and the question they ask

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:10 PM

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Or a master in machine learning (I'm still deciding if I focus in machine learning or software engineering)

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:10 PM

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It's mostly computer science questions

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This you have to check, it's not exactly the same questions for both paths

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:11 PM

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Yeah, I will read the crack the code interview book in future

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:11 PM

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But usually yeah, a master in any field will give you better chance for a job in said field

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:12 PM

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What do you think about not going for a master but just going for some other internships to gain experience?

shadow moss May 22, 2020, 5:13 PM

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Brenosalv, where are you located?

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:13 PM

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I saw in other channel some people saying that master was not needed, would be a waste of time because FANG companies don't care about it, just care about your skills and experience

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I'm from Brazil

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Live in Brazil

swift veldt May 22, 2020, 5:14 PM

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The emphasis on education is generally country dependent.

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but some industries do care about degrees.

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:14 PM

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Yeah, there is also high chance to not get a job at FANG

shadow moss May 22, 2020, 5:14 PM

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yea, I'm asking because it does matter

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:15 PM

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Google is 1/300 applicant

shadow moss May 22, 2020, 5:15 PM

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what is FAANG presence is .br?

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:15 PM

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I wouldnt put all my eggs on it

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:16 PM

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FANG is my goal, until reach there I want to improve my skill enough to get it

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It's being possible is enough to me

swift veldt May 22, 2020, 5:17 PM

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Brazil has some funky import and financial rules, you might find large western companies having branches locally in Brazil. Those might be a stepping stone for you if you want to fancy emigration in the middle/long term.

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:17 PM

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And I don't care a lot FANG presence here in Brazil because I want to live out of Brazil, like I want a job in USA or Europe

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In the future

shadow moss May 22, 2020, 5:18 PM

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So, despite all bullshit in our media about immigration, it's still pretty difficult to legally immigrate here

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here being United States

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:18 PM

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EU too, for south americans according to my south american friends.

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Your visa often expire on your end of contract day.

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:21 PM

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It's not hard to get to EU but you have to go through the less fortunate countries

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:21 PM

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Ok, as long as I have a contract it's ok

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:21 PM

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Once you get visa you can move to a richer EU country

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:23 PM

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Immigration laws are country dependant

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:23 PM

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I know a guy who had a master here in Brazil and was interviewed by google, got the job and today he lives in london working for Google without any problem

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I there was no problem with visa

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:24 PM

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@shut geyser If you have visa in an EU country you are free to move anywhere. That's why you go for countries with lax immigration laws which are mostly the worse ones.

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:25 PM

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I was thinking about a master in some USA university and after that try a job in a FANG company, maybe that's a good path

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:25 PM

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@vapid jay does it work that easily

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if you are outside of the EU I think you still have to go through the non-EU lines at airports etc.

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Yeah my tattooer and his friends do it this way. He has like visa from Slovakia or something and just came to Finland with it.

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hmm

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there might be some touristy things they can do

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:27 PM

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Yeah obtaining a work permit allows you to travel but not reside everywhere

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:27 PM

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that sounds reasonable yeah

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:28 PM

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My main goal is USA, silicon valley would be a dream 😄

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:28 PM

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Yeah you have to work in that specific country for a while that is the "issue"

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:28 PM

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Very hard to get there, but I'd like to know the easiest path

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:29 PM

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@solemn wedge can i ask you why

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Then you just apply for other country and since you already have residence permit in another EU country it's easy

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@vapid jay residence permit?

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 5:29 PM

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@vapid jay Why what? 🤔

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:30 PM

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@vapid jay i'm an EU citizen from FI and i got a residence permit here because i had a job here (i live in another eu country)

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i didn't need a work permit though

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Residence permit is work permit

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:30 PM

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Usually it's tied

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I am french and i live in another eu country and i have to register as a worker or student to get the right to stay more than 3 month here

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:32 PM

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@shut geyser yuuup

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:32 PM

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Non EU people i know have to get back to their country the day their contract end

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:32 PM

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though I live in a system which is a bit... krhm... funny, so I probably would have gotten long-term residence here by just asking nicely

shut geyser May 22, 2020, 5:32 PM

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You can roam as you want

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:33 PM

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people here love regulations and bureaucracy but

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that doesn't mean you do what they say

marsh wind May 22, 2020, 5:49 PM

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I know that people from Italy come to Paris in big quantities

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and they don't ask for any kind of permits to work

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they only need to take some care when declaring the income and doing taxes

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but overall if you get residence/work permit in any EU country you it only allows to work in that country

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 5:52 PM

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italy and france are both in the european union so the moving part is very easy

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they just cross the border.

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then they can stay for at least 3 months without any questions asked. i don't know how it is between those countries but there might be a loophole that they can just leave the country and come right back and be "renewed"

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if not, they'll be fine if they just get some legal requirement fulfilled which will give them some extended warranty which probably doesn't need to be much

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like some minimum wage contract job for some hours per month that gets passed through some stamps and then they show that "hey i have a job here in paris" which is enough or something

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this is just me guessing so if somebody has facts please correct me

marsh wind May 22, 2020, 6:03 PM

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maybe, yeah. I know some Latvian who work here since long time

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and she never mentioned having to do any paper work

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like she had to when Latvia was not part of EU

shadow moss May 22, 2020, 7:16 PM

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@solemn wedge it's harder then "Well someone did it"

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yes, people do immigrate to United States all the time from every country, but in US, for every 1 who gets in, there is probably 100 who don't

hardy halo May 22, 2020, 7:42 PM

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Is there someone here who has started a successful startup?

solemn wedge May 22, 2020, 7:56 PM

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@shadow moss I understand, but I will try anyway. I believe getting a jog there or a master in some university, it gets easier

devout pumice May 22, 2020, 9:41 PM

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Hey guys,

I'm a starter to CP and had a doubt that I am an intermediate in Java and have currently completed a course on Python and was thinking of doing CP in python I know it's not recommended but I wanna stick to one language and I wanted it to be Python as it's the trendiest right now but one thing is stuck in my head that should I still do CP in Python or Java? As eventually I wanna set my hands to Python too na

gritty cedar May 22, 2020, 9:42 PM

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I can do scratch,

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 11:01 PM

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Uh, what is CP in context to Python?

radiant moon May 22, 2020, 11:02 PM

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"Computer Programming"?

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"Continuation Passing"?

indigo sleet May 22, 2020, 11:02 PM

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I've seen it used to refer to CircuitPython but that seems unlikely here

wheat hatch May 22, 2020, 11:05 PM

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Cyclic prefix (?)

vapid jay May 22, 2020, 11:09 PM

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This is a vague acronym

crude crown May 22, 2020, 11:59 PM

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Competitive Programming

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I'm kinda guessing that's what he was refering to

summer roost May 23, 2020, 1:16 AM

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Oh, if that's the case learn C++ 🙂

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It's so much faster than Python at number crunching type stuff that you can usually pass a competitive programming problem despite having a garbage algorithm. They usually use a time constraint to weed out inefficient algorithms, but since a bad C++ algorithm can often outperform a good Python one it makes a great language choice for competitions.

radiant moon May 23, 2020, 1:36 AM

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that'd surprise me.

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I'd expect the same algorithm to be maybe a couple of times faster in C++ at best

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I guess it'd greatly depend on the algorithm, memory usage, and who knows what else

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 1:41 AM

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Senior in Cloud infra, can i get a resume review? https://docdro.id/VfAaTxY

John Smith.pdf

JOHN SMITH 123 456 789. jsmith@gmail.com. Linkedin.com/in/jmith. github.com/jsmith. PROFILE Senior AWS Cloud DevOps professional with 4+ years of experience providing well architected & scaleable Cloud and Big Data solutions CORE COMPETENCIES Development: Python, Java, SQL, Li...

summer roost May 23, 2020, 1:56 AM

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@cobalt acorn - is this for the US, or Europe?

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:00 AM

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@summer roost Canada

summer roost May 23, 2020, 2:01 AM

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sure, I suppose there are places other than the US and Europe 😄

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I'm not sure about conventions in Canada, but at least in the US fitting onto a single page is highly recommended

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"Aligned stakeholders to remove silos resulting in increased operational alignment" really says nothing. Hiring managers will glaze over things like that as meaningless business babble. It might be better to drop bullets like that, and replace them with something more specific. "Ran weekly meetings between developers and data analysts to assist in..." or whatever.

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"Developing lambda functions" should be "Developing Lambda functions", I think. And "Bachelor of Business Technology Management" should be "Bachelor's", as in "bachelor's degree", unless the terms are different up there.

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phrases like "resulting in $25k+ annual savings" are excellent - if you can find more places to work concrete numbers in, they make a big impact

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what does "Reduced Security vulnerabilities by 25%"? Of 100 known vulnerabilities, 25 were closed? A 25% reduction in year-over-year vulnerabilities reported? Something else?

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overall, looks quite good to me, @cobalt acorn

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:10 AM

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John you should make your github and linkedin hyperlinks, and you should add a portfolio website there

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Also you don't need that profile / objective statement at the top, i always remove it, it adds space for more important things

summer roost May 23, 2020, 2:10 AM

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(I agree about the Profile)

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:11 AM

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wdym, like u agree to keep it or remove it

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:11 AM

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@summer roost Honestly, there's probably a lot of fat i need to trim here. That's apart of our security remediation project where we work alongside DBAs to address and remove security vulns from databases servers

summer roost May 23, 2020, 2:11 AM

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I agree that removing Profile is better than having it. Having it can be useful if you're trying to fill out a full page, but it's the first thing I'd drop if I'm over a full page.

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:11 AM

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Skills section can be organized better tbh, I divide mine up into Languages, Web Technologies, Tools, and sometimes you can add a section for Databases

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Experience section is alright, you have a decent amount of quantifiable bullet points

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:13 AM

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@summer roost appreciate the tips thank you

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@vapid jay any suggestions on how a infra/back-end would organize their skills? It's something i've always struggled with

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:15 AM

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Based on your skills I would probably go along the lines of Languages, Platforms, Tools, Other

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You don't need powershell and linux there, keep bash there which implies linux on top of it

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:15 AM

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That's a really good idea, thanks!

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:15 AM

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np

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This is how my skills are organized at the moment

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But I'm just in highschool rn, so I don't have as broad of a skillset as you rn

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:17 AM

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How's this?

📎 unknown.png

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:17 AM

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Where'd Java go haha

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I would put Bash under tools, you might get called out on putting it under languages

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:17 AM

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I'm stretching Java (familiarity only from 2 University courses)

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:18 AM

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What's the role you're applying for

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If it isn't a Java role, I guess it doesn't hurt to put it there

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Might sell yourself better, having more than one language known

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:18 AM

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Cloud/DevOps roles

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:18 AM

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gotcha

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:18 AM

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Trimmed down, does look a bit empty now xD:

📎 unknown.png

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:19 AM

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yeah yikes,

summer roost May 23, 2020, 2:19 AM

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I haven't updated this in 5 years, but last time I was job hunting I used:

Skills Summary
Languages:
    C, C++11/STL, Python, SQL, Korn/Bash/Zsh shell scripting,
    Javascript, Perl, Java
Tools and Technologies:
    Git, SVN, CVS, Hg, Boost, ZeroMQ, TIBCO Rendezvous, SWIG, Qt, GTK,
    BMC Control-M, Oracle Pro*C/C++, Linux, Solaris, gdb, dbx, Vim

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:19 AM

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Just curios why do you guys put SQL and Command line tools under languages

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:19 AM

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I have no idea, there all a form of computer languages to me

summer roost May 23, 2020, 2:20 AM

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SQL is definitely a language. there's no definition of a programming language that it doesn't fit.

tall isle May 23, 2020, 2:20 AM

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hi

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:20 AM

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Gotcha, I haven't really seen it under the language section normally so it caught me off guard

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Some people also don't put MATLAB under languages likewise

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It can be seen as a tool

tall isle May 23, 2020, 2:21 AM

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Is this where you get resume help?

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:21 AM

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It can be, but not limited to

tall isle May 23, 2020, 2:22 AM

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Okay

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Is it cool if I pm you?

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 2:22 AM

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Sure I don't mind

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:27 AM

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Appreciate everyone's help, i thin this is a lot better than my final version

summer roost May 23, 2020, 2:27 AM

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@cobalt acorn - with the skills section, human readers mostly just skim over it, but resume matching algorithms will catch keywords in it. So, some redundancy there is OK, IMHO - if you've trimmed it down so much that it doesn't fill out a full line anymore, it's OK to pad it out with more stuff until it reaches the end of the line

cobalt acorn May 23, 2020, 2:27 AM

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Thank you!

summer roost May 23, 2020, 2:27 AM

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when it comes to resumes, presentation matters a lot, and the right answer is often about what fits on a line, or how to get a line to not wrap, etc 🙂

summer roost May 23, 2020, 2:54 AM

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that'd surprise me.
@radiant moon

Well, https://gist.github.com/godlygeek/cda6845805c862aa8648612085d70572 for an example. Dumbest solution I could think of for the 5th Project Euler problem, runs ~26x faster in C++ than in Python. Most programming competitions I've played in give you a cutoff of 20 or 30 seconds before they time your program out - this C++ solution runs in 14 seconds, and the same algorithm in Python takes 6 minutes (on the very cheap old laptop I'm currently chatting on, but the factor should be pretty similar on any hardware)

winged lava May 23, 2020, 4:59 AM

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what are u saying matlab can be put under resume? for real?

summer roost May 23, 2020, 5:16 AM

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Depending on the job you're applying for, definitely.

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If you're applying for a job related to backed development, it might help more than hurt. If you're applying for a data analyst type of role, it probably helps more than hurts.

winged lava May 23, 2020, 5:31 AM

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i see

summer roost May 23, 2020, 5:55 AM

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The key point is that you should be tailoring your résumé based on the job and company. What's right for one won't always be right for another

manic sable May 23, 2020, 6:28 AM

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umm see you can obviously put that in your resume if you have confidence in it

crude crown May 23, 2020, 12:42 PM

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yup, you should tailor things when possible

radiant moon May 23, 2020, 5:57 PM

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... this C++ solution runs in 14 seconds, and the same algorithm in Python takes 6 minutes (on the very cheap old laptop I'm currently chatting on, but the factor should be pretty similar on any hardware)
@summer roost

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fair enough!

fringe plume May 23, 2020, 6:06 PM

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I generally tailor my resume for the industry, and cover for the company, if I'd tailor my resume for every job I'd be spending a lot of time looking for work ^^

crude crown May 23, 2020, 6:25 PM

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that makes sense

fringe plume May 23, 2020, 6:29 PM

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@neon moat asking the company what to focus on can be tricky sometimes but it's absolutely worth a try

neon moat May 23, 2020, 6:29 PM

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I mean it shouldnt be a trick interview

fringe plume May 23, 2020, 6:29 PM

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I tend to get short answers, I think they feel like they're giving away the answer to the question if they tell me or something

crude crown May 23, 2020, 6:29 PM

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it's usually fair game to ask that

fringe plume May 23, 2020, 6:29 PM

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yeah I agree

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I don't think it's a conscious thing

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might also have to do with things like "how does this person perform given the same information as these other 5 candidates"

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so they might not want to play favors

neon moat May 23, 2020, 6:30 PM

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maybe wording like "is the interview going to be about programming knowledge etc or more towards data structures and algorithms as i like to be prepared"

gilded valley May 23, 2020, 6:30 PM

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from what I've seen - most companies do a good job of explaining what interviews entail

neon moat May 23, 2020, 6:30 PM

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if they cant give you an honest answer is that the type of company you want to work for?

gilded valley May 23, 2020, 6:30 PM

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at least big companies

neon moat May 23, 2020, 6:31 PM

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i mean its a test, not a trick exercise

fringe plume May 23, 2020, 6:31 PM

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at big companies it might help that the jobs are so well defined

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they know exactly what you (should be) be doing down to the line count (if you write it as they want you to)

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in smaller companies or more volatile industries it starts to get a bit more blurry exactly what problems the project will run into

marsh wind May 23, 2020, 6:33 PM

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But still interview process is likely to be well defined

fringe plume May 23, 2020, 6:33 PM

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maybe

neon moat May 23, 2020, 6:33 PM

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yea definitely

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if you unsure then ask for an indicator lol

fringe plume May 23, 2020, 6:35 PM

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idk I haven't had a single interview that's been the same as the last tho

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sometimes there hasn't even been code involved (as in; until I was actually hired :P)

marsh wind May 23, 2020, 6:49 PM

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But you had previous experience /github /education? @fringe plume

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I mean, I can totally see not coding at all at interview if you have other proofs

fringe plume May 23, 2020, 6:53 PM

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nothing crazy tho, github would be code 😄 and no education

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think it might have to do with how directly I reach the person in charge in terms of my cover letter reaching his inbox and the contents of it reaching on a personal level

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the more HR I have to go through before I get to anyone the more papers and tests and stages

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once I found out lack of education is what made my application stick out lol

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like, after I was hired hehe

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apparently the founders of the company had similar personal backgrounds

marsh wind May 23, 2020, 7:22 PM

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Yeah that's a huge upper hand if someone from executives can relate to you

summer roost May 23, 2020, 7:46 PM

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When I was first interviewing for internships in college I had hobbies listed - anything to stick out from the crowd and get someone interested.

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I used to skydive, and that gets people's attention 😀

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I wouldn't do that now that I have years of experience under my belt, but when you're first starting out and competing to get interviews with a bunch of other people whose resumes are nearly identical to yours, something to stand out helps.

white karma May 23, 2020, 7:54 PM

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I can clap with one hand

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Hire me

fringe plume May 23, 2020, 7:54 PM

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will you perform the one-handed clap for money?

white karma May 23, 2020, 7:55 PM

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Sure why not

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 8:12 PM

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We usually just have coding for the suspicious cases. Most people can be vetted with just talking.

summer roost May 23, 2020, 8:13 PM

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hiring managers are busy people, and don't spend much time reading each resume. And, the earlier in your career you are, the more your resume for some job will look like everyone else's. Nice formatting, correct spelling, interesting honors/awards, interesting hobbies - those are good ways to stand out from the crowd even early in your career.

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 8:15 PM

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My team didn't care about the hobbies or other stuff at all on the other hand. For interns the application was mostly just a formality since they are junior junior developers.

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People who got interviews first were the ones to reach out to us during visits etc.

scenic heath May 23, 2020, 9:04 PM

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Does anybody here have any experience working at GitLab, or know somebody who does? I'm going to interview there on Tuesday and was curious what active employees think about the company.

summer roost May 23, 2020, 9:29 PM

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People who got interviews first were the ones to reach out to us during visits etc.
@vapid jay
Well, OK - but that's not the case for all companies. The only reason to take the first person who meets some minimum requirements is if only one person met those requirements; otherwise the better choice would be to take the person who exceeded those requirements by the most. There's usually multiple qualified applicants for a job, at least in the entry level space.

vapid jay May 23, 2020, 9:31 PM

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Yes just like it's not the case for all companies to care about non-work related skills or hobbies. Also the first people to get to the interview were people who approached us first, They were not automatically hired.

misty igloo May 23, 2020, 9:35 PM

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Hello! I'm looking for some advice on what to do. I really love Python, but everyone in the freelance market is tied to have a Fullstack developer that knows Django + React/Vue. But Angular is barely used for freelancer contracts and it's the one I know. I want to be a data scientist in the future but I don't have a powerful PC to handle a remote job related to that field, so I just want to do freelancer contracts to buy a new PC. Any advice on what can I do to keep using Python without going into React/Vue?

indigo sleet May 23, 2020, 9:37 PM

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Angular, or indeed any SPA framework, isn't always a necessity

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that said, a lot of people that do use SPA frameworks are migrating to React (because of react native and such) and Vue (because of the fantastic simplicity)

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unfortunately they're all really popular right now, and the only way to ensure you have a relevant skillset is either to work with all three, or get yourself into a position where you're comfortable enough that learning a new one wouldn't take you too long

misty igloo May 23, 2020, 9:43 PM

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Thanks for your feedback! I really don't take too long learning them (or any language), but having projects built by me on those frameworks it's the thing that drains my time. I guess it's the way to go to learn a new framework, since Vue have things from Angular and React, and it's easier to learn (I was reading both docs these days, trying to get into one)

indigo sleet May 23, 2020, 9:45 PM

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It's worth noting that they all basically try to achieve the same thing, so there's definitely going to be a lot of overlap

#

But the most important thing to think about is the fact that when you apply for a job, most of the good ones will look at your portfolio and broad range of technologies you have experience with

#

If they like you enough then they'll most likely understand that you won't take too long to ease into their stack, even if you don't have any direct experience with their framework

summer roost May 23, 2020, 9:49 PM

#

Is that equally true for freelance? I've never done any freelance, but I'd have thought that in the freelance case they're not going to want to give you time to ease into their stack, unlike in the salaried hire case.

misty igloo May 23, 2020, 9:49 PM

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Into freelancing it depends on the length of the contract and the one who is hiring

#

I might try apply into jobs also, and see how it goes

indigo sleet May 23, 2020, 9:53 PM

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It does depend on the specific job, yeah

#

If it's just a short project then they may just be looking for that instant gratification

half hawk May 24, 2020, 12:43 AM

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Do you need to go to college to work in data science or python programming or is it very hard to work without one? Does it effect your wages?

#

Please ping me with your answers

gilded valley May 24, 2020, 12:50 AM

#

@half hawk To work in general programming/software-engineering, you don't need a degree, but it does help - and the importance probably varies on a country by country basis. To work in data-science, I get the impression that it's quite a bit more necessary - and a lot of positions want even more than a bachelors, they want masters or PHDs

half hawk May 24, 2020, 12:51 AM

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Damn I’m just gonna work at McDonald’s instead then

#

🍔

open patio May 24, 2020, 2:31 AM

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i want to get started working on my CV soon, but school among other things keeps me quite busy

analog cypress May 24, 2020, 4:10 AM

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you can definitely be self taught and build up to a great job. work hard and build things. getting your first job is harder without some degree but it really depends.

hushed jungle May 24, 2020, 4:13 AM

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That's encouraging. I'm starting a udacity nanodegree tomorrow. I plan to finish in a month and go from there

open patio May 24, 2020, 4:54 AM

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@small garnet sorry, but we don't allow unsolicited advertising here

small garnet May 24, 2020, 4:54 AM

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Okok my bad it was a listing

#

is there a jobs channel?

open patio May 24, 2020, 4:55 AM

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unfortunately there is not

latent elk May 24, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

Currently working on my new CV, what should I include, I don't want to fill it with fluff that makes it just seem obnoxious

vapid jay May 24, 2020, 6:11 AM

#

https://github.com/posquit0/Awesome-CV

GitHub

posquit0/Awesome-CV

:page_facing_up: Awesome CV is LaTeX template for your outstanding job application - posquit0/Awesome-CV

#

@latent elk

latent elk May 24, 2020, 6:14 AM

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Huh, that looks nice

#

Thanks!

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It's given me some ideas

vapid jay May 24, 2020, 6:50 AM

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yeah just avoid the colors

vapid jay May 24, 2020, 9:18 AM

#

I like the Deedy resume more

#

the two column layout, the way it's written makes it so that you're able to pack a lot of information, in a nice, neat, and legible manner

#

all fits on one page and super easy to read

marsh wind May 24, 2020, 9:21 AM

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deedy?

vapid jay May 24, 2020, 7:17 PM

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its an overleaf template

marsh wind May 24, 2020, 8:15 PM

#

oh ok. I though for some reason you reffered to some person here perhaps

cobalt acorn May 24, 2020, 8:17 PM

#

Just a tip for those who need some search query optimization on LinkedIn. You can find recruiters by doing fuzzy searches on keywords + location. Then follow or message said recruiter for future opportunities. From there you can also find the commonly used "recruiter hashtags" that are relevant to your area. Recruiters tend to use common hashtags for job postings (sometimes location dependent -- i.e. -- #awsToronto #awsSeattle)

#

📎 unknown.png

#

Additionally, many don't know, but you can also do Boolean Searches on LinkedIn and have them set as Saved Searches or daily notifications. This way you will be notified of any new jobs related to a specific Job role, keyword, or phrase:

https://business.linkedin.com/content/dam/me/business/en-us/talent-solutions/learning-center/tip-sheets/en-us/UseBooleanLogic.pdf

#

📎 unknown.png

low drift May 24, 2020, 8:41 PM

#

hey y'all

#

ive been endlessly looking to get my foot in the door with gaining experience i can put on a resume, but i keep finding vague responses or things that I can't do for a lack of experience

#

I'm a freshman doing a CS major

shadow moss May 24, 2020, 8:42 PM

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ok

#

so looking for internship?

#

it's pretty hard right now, many companies have cut back on Internships due to COVID19

low drift May 24, 2020, 8:43 PM

#

well i spotted a few, but again, nothing really on my resume

shadow moss May 24, 2020, 8:43 PM

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either for cost or management reasons

low drift May 24, 2020, 8:43 PM

#

I've heard that participating in open-source projects is a good start, but I don't understand how to get started with that either

#

is there a go-to resource for things like these?

gilded valley May 24, 2020, 8:44 PM

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If you're looking for things that you can stick on your Resume so that you can more easily get an internship, here's some suggestions: Part time job delivering pizza (or literally anything), hackathons, random volunteering work at goodwill or whatever, open source projects,

shadow moss May 24, 2020, 8:44 PM

#

pick an open source project, look at their issue board and contribute

gilded valley May 24, 2020, 8:46 PM

#

University societies are experience as well - although I don't know if they're a thing in the US

low drift May 24, 2020, 8:46 PM

#

There's clubs like those, yeah, I've gotten some experience from those actually

#

placed in state level contests for networking and cybersec

#

but not really programming

#

Do you get anything official from a hackathon, so that you can refer to it in a resume?

gilded valley May 24, 2020, 8:47 PM

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placed in state level contests for networking and cybersec
That's already a lot more than some of the people applying. If you spin it well, and have a decent resume/cv, you're in a solid position

low drift May 24, 2020, 8:48 PM

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I really should stop overthinking this; there was an MLH fellowship application that closed the other day; and i ended up not applying because my resume was bare asf

gilded valley May 24, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

Random stuff on your github is relevant as well. Maybe just like a simple CRUD app with Flask/React to show you can make something

low drift May 24, 2020, 8:49 PM

#

so, pushing even personal projects to git can be shown as such?

gilded valley May 24, 2020, 8:49 PM

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yeah. You probably don't want trash on there, not like 10 variants on hello world, but if you have some code that does something and isn't terrible - it won't hurt and might help

shadow moss May 24, 2020, 8:51 PM

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Placed X place in Y Contest on resume

indigo sleet May 24, 2020, 9:17 PM

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I don't think they allow for that kind of promotion here

wheat oxide May 25, 2020, 2:37 AM

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@low drift Make it look like you actually enjoy programming

steel umbra May 25, 2020, 2:26 PM

#

Hey guys

#

So recently I started having questions in my head because of all the people I saw who had skill in python, some of them were youngsters too

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 2:26 PM

#

youngsters

steel umbra May 25, 2020, 2:27 PM

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Can anyone tell me how long does it take to get good in python?

#

@vapid jay?

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 2:28 PM

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I wouldn't call it good in python.

steel umbra May 25, 2020, 2:28 PM

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Then?

#

Proficient?

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 2:29 PM

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As they all say,programming is a never ending circle, you learn as you go all the time

#

What I would say being good in python is understanding how python works and experience

steel umbra May 25, 2020, 2:29 PM

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Sorry, I should clarify my question more

#

How long does it take to have the same skill level as most of the programmers in the world?

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 2:31 PM

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I would say that most programmers don't know what is happening guido

steel umbra May 25, 2020, 2:32 PM

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Lol

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 2:33 PM

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Think of something you wanna make, then find libraries that will help you do that, make it, polish it, move on.

#

the "basics" of python can be learnt in a day I would say, what you need to do is understand python and have experience on it

#

a portfolio to back up your claims

#

That's at least my take on it.

steel umbra May 25, 2020, 2:37 PM

#

I'm currently learning selenium, to further better what I had learned I started working on a personal project

#

Don't get me wrong I love selenium, but I find this module to be annoying at times

#

Should I expect the rest of the libraries/frameworks to be the same?

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

is selenium a gui?

steel umbra May 25, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

@vapid jay Selenium is a module that is mainly used for automation and website testing. It connects with a driver to open a browser to wherever you want it to and from there on you program it to do whatever you want it to for example clicking a button, typing something somewhere etc

#

Basically an artificial user..... a bot

#

I learned it more cuz I wanted to... cuz I don't see how this will help my clients

#

I'm glad I did, its awesome..... but at times it can be a real pain

thick fable May 25, 2020, 4:44 PM

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There's other options..you could use the request library instead of selenium.

#

Request library to handle the connection to the webserver, and beautiful soup to parse the html for info you need.

#

If the website has javascript stuff it does, you'd want to examine what happens whem you click on a button for example.. and inspect what it sends to the server, and the response. You can do that with developer tools for firefox or chrome

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 5:39 PM

#

i wanna join the military

shadow moss May 25, 2020, 5:42 PM

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Talk to your local recruiter

fringe plume May 25, 2020, 6:20 PM

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nah fam start ur own military

#

be your own warlord

languid bloom May 25, 2020, 6:30 PM

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just curious on the possibility to be a software engineer without a degree in CS or related field, or even attending a boot camp. Can it be done?

gilded valley May 25, 2020, 6:36 PM

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It can be done - it's not necessarily easy though. IF you check out the pins you can see a post who self taught programming over the course of a year and landed a job

languid bloom May 25, 2020, 6:39 PM

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ty! i read their post and it's pretty inspiring!

gilded valley May 25, 2020, 6:43 PM

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They're still active in this Discord sometimes as well

#

~~A recommendation for you: Paragraph breaks make things easier to read~~ there we go

#

I'm normally pretty sceptical about youtubers talking about careers- they're kinda incentivised to sensationalise things and exaggerate - although I guess I should actually check them out

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 6:48 PM

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I trust Clement because he actually has his own company Algoexpert.io which is super huge, so he wouldn't be lying or making up stuff in his videos

#

He has to keep his personal brand intact because it's heavily connected to his company

shadow moss May 25, 2020, 6:49 PM

#

Clement is better if you are looking for a job at FAANG, Josh is better if not

#

both are very very US focused, if you do not, their advice should be weighed against local norms of your country

#

Sure, I enjoy Josh just because I work in corporate and well......

gilded valley May 25, 2020, 6:52 PM

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That seems like the kind of message that might be useful if pinned

shadow moss May 25, 2020, 6:52 PM

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but my point is, local customs sometimes make his advice bad, like in US, you would NEVER put your picture on resume unless you are applying for Actor/Model or similar, but apparently, in parts of Europe, no picture will result in your resume getting tossed. Josh says "no photo" but in Europe, that could result in you being jobless

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 6:56 PM

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@shadow moss Every time he mentions the picture thing, he explicitly explains how in Europe it's different

shadow moss May 25, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

I've seen him not

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 6:56 PM

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Strange, must've been a rare vid

#

Everytime I've seen those vids he talks about the Europe thing

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But Ig he just assumes that the majority of his watchers are going for jobs in the US

shadow moss May 25, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

but anyways, my point is, they are both US, overall, their advice is great, just weigh it against local customs for someone not in US

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 6:57 PM

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Yea well said

shadow moss May 25, 2020, 6:57 PM

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I like Clement, but he's so heavily FAANG focused

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 6:58 PM

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His advice can be applicable to any company tbh

shadow moss May 25, 2020, 7:01 PM

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I've worked at all non FAANG companies, Algo interviews are not as common outside those companies and Clement if I had to guess is close to genius if not one. That's like taking Football advice from Hossam Hassan. Everyone should listen, few people can pull it off

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 7:05 PM

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Do they still have coding interviews?

shut geyser May 25, 2020, 7:30 PM

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Yeah

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 7:49 PM

#

hello there, i've question one persone, was courses about C++ please

#

?

#

what's your question bud?

#

about learn C++

#

courses

fluid thicket May 25, 2020, 7:53 PM

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maybe ask in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval or in a c++ discord?

analog cypress May 25, 2020, 8:24 PM

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i've found https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/cpp/cpp/welcome-back-to-cpp-modern-cpp?view=vs-2019 to be a great resource

Welcome back to C++ - Modern C++

Describes the new programming idioms in Modern C++ and their rationale.

#

not really a "course" though

stable shoal May 25, 2020, 9:20 PM

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Hello, I am new here and I don't know how to code could someone please recommend a course in python coding if you can I am planning to learn python before the other languages of code Thanks!

open patio May 25, 2020, 9:22 PM

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!resources there are lots of resources to learn python here

inner wrenBOT May 25, 2020, 9:22 PM

#

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

languid bloom May 25, 2020, 9:22 PM

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i can confirm the photo thing. When I worked in Switzerland, photos were a must thing to have on a CV. (US equivalent to a resume). and working in the US, it's not good practice to put any information such as photo, sex, race, etc. on a resume

stable shoal May 25, 2020, 9:23 PM

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Thank you f1re.

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 9:30 PM

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In Finland we don't require them.

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And I don't value having a photo at all in our recruitment

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:27 PM

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never put my photo in my CV and I'm in southern europe

opal perch May 25, 2020, 10:41 PM

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i can confirm the photo thing. When I worked in Switzerland, photos were a must thing to have on a CV. (US equivalent to a resume). and working in the US, it's not good practice to put any information such as photo, sex, race, etc. on a resume
@languid bloom Yep I definitely know that feel, although I think last year or so switzerland created a ban that said companies didn't require photos from you anymore. So its optional if you put it in

rare sand May 25, 2020, 10:47 PM

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Norway here, I really don't think companies here care whether you have a photo or not, but I tend to get interviewed for everything I apply for and I've always used a photo.

#

so I certainly don't think it's hurt my chances.

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

hmm

#

I tend to avoid putting things

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that might lead to some sort of ageism

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like birthdate, pictures and so on

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(not that I'm a grandpa LOL, but it's for sure a concern in IT)

narrow jacinth May 25, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

Hi I'm a comp sci student in my junior of college, can anyone give me pointers on how to land my first job or internship

rare sand May 25, 2020, 10:49 PM

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being in my thirties, I guess I think ageism would usually play to my favor.

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:49 PM

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or maybe it's just me who likes to be discreet

stable cipher May 25, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

Speaking from the US, it’s illegal to ask for a photo with a resume

wheat oxide May 25, 2020, 10:50 PM

#

@narrow jacinth Get advice from your department

rare sand May 25, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

@narrow jacinth somewhat universal advice: build a portfolio of open source contributions (a nice GitHub), use LinkedIn, and consider getting involved in a community. it shows passion.

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

you already got it several time prince

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

yeah, I can see how that makes a lot of sense @stable cipher

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

unless you changed it a LOT

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

i made a lotta changes

#

ye

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

it avoids a priori quite a lot of biases

#

I remember this study I took part recently

#

where I was asked to evaluate some hypothetical candidates for a job

#

and I had their pictures shown

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

machadojpf, you are lucky then. In some EU countries, when you are junior/recent grad/etc (aka little experinece) no photo - no resume review

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

and even on that situation where I intended to be as unbiased as possible, I was slightly biased towards more presentable people

#

and I'd like to think that I'm not superficial at all...

#

@marsh wind never heard about that happening here in Portugal. Besides, you're going to see the candidate's face when interviewing them so what's the point of a picture?

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

funny thing, recruiters/HRs tell to people to remove their nationality/age if they think it might be of a concern, they would never tell to reove photo

#

well this is what usually happens in France 🤷‍♂️

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:55 PM

#

hmm, I don't think that happens in Germany or in the Netherlands AFAIK

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

France is a bit retrograde here and there (||don't tell @shut geyser that I said that 😂 ||

rare sand May 25, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

to me, the picture (and I'm also one of those monsters with colors on my resume) makes my resume better stand out from a sea of black and white insurance papers

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

AFAIK also Belgium, and apparently switzerland. Heard it in other places to

#

with colors on my
well, you don't put there Yellow or green I imagine 😉

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

as long you don't put a yellow background with pink letters

rare sand May 25, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

the color of lemons?

#

no it's usually a single pale color and black and white but it helps a lot.

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

this reminded me of the most epic resumé I've ever seen

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

crude crown May 25, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

https://pjreddie.com/static/Redmon Resume.pdf

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

I mean, I also don't have just B&W with nothing more

rare sand May 25, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

I love the languages part

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

don't rate your own skills

#

super subjective

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

bullshit imo.

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

It depends on the scale you use...

#

if you're using a likert scale with like 5 or 7 points

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

interviewers also might ask you to rate your skills explicitly

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

yeah, it's a bit weird

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

shows confidence and reflection unless it's unbelievable.

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

not at all, ur self rating means absolutely nothing

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

however, it's fair enough to put if you're a beginner, intermediate or advanced for example

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

let them rate you, let your projects rate you, let your experience rate you

#

don't self rate without proof

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

as long you have other things to back that up

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

I think rating language skills is perfect, if you rate all sorts of other stuff I am less impressed.

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

I mean, I put 5/5 on English part: I probably would not do that in English native country, but for France my English is even 6/5

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

for the languages, in particular here in Europe, you should use that language skills framework

#

and, if possible, have some sort of certificate

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

im not talking about rating languages, no one cares about that. im talking about rating skills, neva do it

summer roost May 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

Rather than explicitly rating your skills, listing them from most to least comfortable is pretty common.

gilded valley May 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

Hm - I've heard from recruiters (specifically for internship/grad positions) that you explicitly want your resume to be a black and white insurance form type thing. And that they only care about the content - I wonder how true that is

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

although for English it might not be necessary nowadays to be honest.

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

Yeah in skills you can notice that I only use "competent" or "familiar" words

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

@gilded valley it's probably very true in some cases. some countries, some types of jobs, etcetera.

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

personally, I just put years of XP for the languages I know and other stuff I know

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

Can anyone critique my project section

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

looks pretty good

summer roost May 25, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

A small bit of color is OK in a resume - but I probably wouldn't do more than black, white, and one other color - red or blue or whatever.

gilded valley May 25, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

you use the word built too often

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

this is technical writing, I don't see the problem on repeating words.

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 11:04 PM

#

im not talking about rating languages, no one cares about that.
also not to true for everywhere, If I'd put French 1/5 I would likely get very few calls 😂

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:04 PM

#

repeating words under different projects is ok, i never repeat the same word under the same project (if that makes sense)

gilded valley May 25, 2020, 11:04 PM

#

It's not technical writing. A cv is very much rhetoric, you're trying to sell yourself - you want things to read well, and with the built ... your eyes start to skip it

summer roost May 25, 2020, 11:05 PM

#

^ +1 - some "Designed" or "Created" would go a long way.

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:05 PM

#

Hmm, I see your point.

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 11:05 PM

#

one question:
@vapid jay for COVID tracker why you list python and node after HTML/CSS?

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:05 PM

#

Personally, I wouldn't care at all about repeated words when reviewing a resumé but that's me.

summer roost May 25, 2020, 11:05 PM

#

^ I also wondered that. If you're trying to show the stack for each, showing them all from "backend" to "frontend" consistently would be good.

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:05 PM

#

idk, i'll prolyl rearrange them @marsh wind

#

prolly*

#

no particular reason, that's just the first thiing that came to mind when listing the technology i used

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

I'm curious if you just undertook these as hobby projects or if they were done for an employer or some sort of organisation. did you make them alone or with a team? very little information of this sort.

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

which is the case for other project: Like |Python| Kivy or |python|Pygame

summer roost May 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

(or from frontend to backend, depending on which you want to emphasize)

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

they're personal projects, if im writing a project that was done for an employer it's going to be under the work experience section @rare sand

gilded valley May 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

Personally, I wouldn't care at all about repeated words when reviewing a resumé but that's me.
Even if ~~sub~~consciously you don't, if something reads in a way that's boring, you're probably going to be less inclined to think about what those projects really entailed

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

no particular reason, that's just the first thiing that came to mind when listing the technology i used
I see. well you need consistency in such detalies

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:07 PM

#

gotcha

#

So list back-end skills first?

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

I would perhaps list those which are you're more comfortable with or are your "core" skills

gilded valley May 25, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

Generally best to list them in order of importance to the person looking at the CV. You probably don't want to change it for every job, so if you're applying for backend positions, put backend first

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

gotcha

#

i kinda just want an internship rn

#

im in 11th grade

summer roost May 25, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

do you have more fun with the frontend stuff or the backend stuff?

#

all things being equal, I'd probably list the backend stuff first - fewer people have strong backend skills than strong frontend skills. But I'm very much a backend guy, and might be biased.

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

idk it kinda depends on the project, on mobile i kinda like working with the front end, but on web based apps back end is more interesting to me

#

it depends on the project

#

i hate css lol

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

im in 11th grade
and that's were some decent amount of people would go cry in the corner looking at your projects and comparing to what they did in 11th grade 😂

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

yeah...

#

I was busy making music back then

#

at most I had messed around with HTML and CSS

marsh wind May 25, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

I did some PHP and I hate it till this day

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:21 PM

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ugh i hate php

wheat oxide May 25, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

@marsh wind @vapid jay Why?

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:23 PM

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I was busy making music back then
at most I had messed around with HTML and CSS
@crude crown

are you me

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:23 PM

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I don't think so : D

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:23 PM

#

is your beard like holy shit

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:24 PM

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I do have a goatee

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but it's not an epic beard á lá ZZ top

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:24 PM

#

oh I see, you're bizarro-lemon. the supervillain version of me

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:24 PM

#

or just the portuguese one

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

I think I could do a pretty good zz top cosplay at this point

crude crown May 25, 2020, 11:26 PM

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but I dig that "supervillain" version thing > : D

rare sand May 25, 2020, 11:27 PM

#

sorry, I'm pulling this channel wildly off topic.

gilded valley May 25, 2020, 11:27 PM

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not if you decide to become a career professional zz-top impressioner who uses python to pull it off somehow

vapid jay May 25, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

lol

radiant moon May 25, 2020, 11:46 PM

#

for that, you need to be both Bad, and Nationwide.

#

https://technomancy.us/140

old silo May 26, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

Hello guys I am 18years old I want to support my family by doing freelancing job in order to do what all qualifications I need I mainly wnt to get into programming

wheat oxide May 26, 2020, 1:28 AM

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@old silo I'd look at the freelancing work you can find and see what they require

old silo May 26, 2020, 1:51 AM

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@wheat oxide can u plz tell me the link it will be great help

wheat oxide May 26, 2020, 1:53 AM

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@old silo Google

old silo May 26, 2020, 1:54 AM

#

Ahhh

languid bloom May 26, 2020, 1:57 AM

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indeed, craigslist, guru, fivver are all some websties. the last two are more tailored to freelance work

opal perch May 26, 2020, 1:57 AM

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@old silo Do your research extensively, it's a very hard industry and you're literally throwing yourself in the tank with the sharks. If you want to support your family properly, try and find a stable job, that will also be higher paying and constant income

#

Especially if you're new to programming, unless you work for dirt cheap, where it's not worth it for your time or the money, you're competing against experienced developers

old silo May 26, 2020, 4:52 AM

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Hmmmm make sense

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Ty @opal perch

fringe plume May 26, 2020, 6:35 AM

#

Any general tips on lack of positive recommendations from previous contracts? I've ended up at a couple of incredibly abusive places and it's gotten in the way of moving on

#

It doesn't always come up but it feels like a russian roulette every time I'm talking to a possible employer

neon moat May 26, 2020, 7:29 AM

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maybe look to become a permanent employee if you're having trouble going from contract to contract?

fringe plume May 26, 2020, 7:47 AM

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it's really hard to tell what's going on in a company from the outside

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I'm really not the type of person who would stay permanently at a place where some of these things are going on around me

vivid sparrow May 26, 2020, 12:05 PM

#

To find a job, do people compile a list of 100s of companies in the area, and check their career page each day?

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 12:14 PM

#

It really depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking into working at some companies specifically, you might search where said companies are implemented, and sort them according to personal criteria from accessibility (do you need a visa?), CoL, etc. Then, you can look into what position they offer there.
If you are into a type of work or role, you might look into where the related "hot" areas are located, then find patterns in the offers there (to personalize your application). Usually, people do a bit of both.

What you're describing is basically shotgunning applications, which have a very low RoA (return on application). Other people will apply in short batches (5-10 companies at a time) where they will have networked, called, personalized their resume/cover letter to the task.
Again, people are usually doing a bit of both.

#

It really is context dependent, where context is where you live, what are your aspirations, and what are your know-hows.

#

To give you an idea--though it is related to finance as it's the industry I've worked in so far. I never applied at more than 5 companies at a time and got 1-2 return offers each time after getting an interview at four out of five. I am strongly in the latter camp of specializing one's applications--mostly because I am lazy.

vivid sparrow May 26, 2020, 12:20 PM

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Thanks very much for info Roms.

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 12:20 PM

#

np

grizzled trout May 26, 2020, 12:49 PM

#

I'm looking for help deciding between two Master's programs. My background is in a Biological Science but I've completed a diploma of Computer Science this year which has allowed me to progress to the MSc. The University offers Data Science and Software Development Masters's and their syllabuses are attached.

I'm interested in Data Science but from what I've read online, Data Science Master's might not be worthwhile as employers prefer those with Statistics and Maths degrees. Software Development might allow me to enter companies as a SWE and then specialize in Data down the road, whereas DS might restrict my career opportunities more than the other way around. Any feedback on my reasoning on the matter would be appreciated.

📎 WhatsApp_Image_2020-05-21_at_1.47.25_PM.jpeg

#

📎 WhatsApp_Image_2020-05-21_at_1.46.53_PM.jpeg

quasi stag May 26, 2020, 1:00 PM

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You have excellent career oppurtunities with any computer science degree. At least here in Europe. I recommend you to pick whatever sounds more interesting to you. Studying should be fun!

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 1:12 PM

#

Data Science Master's might not be worthwhile as employers prefer those with Statistics and Maths degrees.
This might be true but it has not deterred me to get into one. When choosing an education path, you have to understand the T of it: breadth and depth. Usually, universities are more interested in teaching the horizontal bar--breadth. Master's is usually where you start getting into the neaty gritty of depth. It still is up to you to determine what kind of depth you're interested into.
Find the areas you like most, want to explore in depth most and choose accordingly.

hollow tundra May 26, 2020, 1:13 PM

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I did a Data Science masters, and my peers seemed to have relative ease finding DS positions off the back of it (I opted to stay on for a ML PhD, which I got onto as a direct result of the DS MSc) - with either course you'll get out of it what you put in; pick whichever sounds fun and make up for where the syllabus lacks with your own research imo

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 1:13 PM

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Depth is both attained through coursework and personal exploration/self-teaching.

gilded valley May 26, 2020, 1:14 PM

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I'm not sure where you're getting that about data science from

#

I've heard to opposite to be more true. Data science is more applied and easier to find a job with after bsc than maths which doesn't directly apply to most jobs

#

Data science is in a lot of ways just applied stats

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 1:16 PM

#

I've heard about that idea before, so I'd not throw the stone first. Basically, it supposes that there is a current drive among universities to create/rebrand some of their curriculum paths into "DS". Those rebranded paths are mostly for marketing because DS is hot and might not offer the best teaching possible.

#

It's a stereotype.

#

But sometimes it has some truth to it. The Master I applied to and got accepted in was formerly called "Science de la Décision" (ie. Decision Science) which is basically Applied Stats. It was rebranded as MSc in DS back in 2017.

#

So because universities are rebranding some of their curriculum as "Data Science," some people presuppose that it's about marketing (it is in part) but that the classwork offered isn't up to par--that can be true but seems more an outlier than the norm. Some for-profit universities might do that but it's not a general trend.

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 1:20 PM

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Also, after your first or second job, your major will come into less play

#

If you get DS job with math degree, no one will care deeply after that and be fine hiring you for data science position

gilded valley May 26, 2020, 1:25 PM

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I agree with everything up to your last section , at which point I don't think employers read into it that much. They're just gonna see a more relevant degree, and consider the quality of the university, not go too deep into trting to understand the meta gaming of university courses. That just sounds like an idea coming from a salty maths student

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 1:26 PM

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Absolutely! I've not mentioned sources because I've just heard about this idea before.

#

It's a non-fear in a sense.

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 1:30 PM

#

More like: Masters ✅

grizzled trout May 26, 2020, 2:14 PM

#

Thanks that's all very encouraging

#

So if I was to do the Master's in DS but decided I wanted to do SWE afterwards, would companies like FAANG still consider me as an applicant?

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 2:39 PM

#

Probably

#

might have slightly harder time then someone who was strictly CompSci

neon moat May 26, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

how many years is a masters? 4? Would an employer want someone with 4 years of experience as a developer or someone with zero development experience but has a masters?

#

I dont know the answer to that question but you should be asking yourself

gilded valley May 26, 2020, 4:40 PM

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masters degree is 1 year long in the UK, and comes after a bachelors

#

in Europe it's generally 2 years

#

If you want to go from 0 --> masters, it's normally 4 years full time study

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

Master's have different types, and their length will vary in between countries.
In cont. Europe, Master's are usually two years. MSc are between one and two.

#

Yes to what Charlie's saying, except it's five if starting from junior year in cont. europe.

neon moat May 26, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

Are jobs that you're looking at in data science only recruiting people with masters?

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

In France, for instance, we have the LMD (License/Master/Doctorat) system which goes about like so:

License: 3-year study (similar to a Bachelor's)
Mastère/Magistère: 2-year study (equivalent to a Master's)
Doctorat: 3-year study (equivalent to a PhD)

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

In United States, it's 6 years depending

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

Who are you asking, Josh?

neon moat May 26, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

you

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

and employer might want masters over no degree but experience person or vice versa, depends on what they are looking for

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

I'd say yes. Generally a master's is better in France. Because people are usually judged on their diploma.
However, I already have a master's but not STEM related along with several years of finance experience.

#

I wanted to go do a 1.5-year master's in DS because of a few reasons. My current experiences (mostly consulting and management) are not specialized enough to have captured the attention of recruiters. I don't have a STEM degree, which makes it extra hard to definitely emigrate from France. And also, I've saved enough money to afford myself a gap year--which I want to spend on studying.

neon moat May 26, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

Sounds like you already have a good solid plan set out 👍

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:48 PM

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Solid? Doubtful. But I really wanted that gap year. Financial management in NYC really killed my self-esteem.

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 4:48 PM

#

I'd also say it depends on your country

#

in United States, Master means a ton more debt so you better have good ROI case for doing it

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:49 PM

#

Absolutely. I have the privilege that my tuitions fees are only 4k a year where I'm doing my master's.

#

I only have to worry about accomodations.

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 4:49 PM

#

in Europe, it maybe much less debt or none so it's ROI case is much less strict

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:49 PM

#

but I've saved for that.

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 4:51 PM

#

looking at nearby University, masters are ~10k a semester so 40k for 2 years

neon moat May 26, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

crazy

#

40k is a hellava lot of money

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:55 PM

#

In general, public universities are free (i.e. usually less than 1k a year) in cont. Europe, Rabbit. Some specialized MSc are a bit more expensive than normal within the public framework because they're tied to private labs that provide coursework, offices and/or teachers. However, cont. Europe (well, I'm mostly talking from a French perspective) has a two-track system where public education has to contend with a parallel elite and private education system that provides business and engineering education to a select few--often at a more hefty price.
For instance, French Business Schools, which are called Grande Écoles de Commerce, are usually expensive in comparison to the median French household's purchasing power. For instance, EDHEC, Skema, etc. have tuition fees above eur40k (c. $45k) for a three-year(+1 gap year) program.

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 4:57 PM

#

Are jobs that you're looking at in data science only recruiting people with masters?
never saw a job posting not requiring masters for it

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:57 PM

#

and before you get to be selected (i.e. pass a national exam) to get into such a school, you usually have to study for two years in a dedicated system called a "Classe Préparatoire" (literally Preparation Class). So overall, going to a French Business School can cost a French family around $60k (which is like 1.5 the GDP per capita).

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

Our DS jobs de facto require a masters, I think they have Bachelor with 4+ years experience or Masters with 1+ year but recruiters will weed out almost all bachelor candidates

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

but that is $60k over like 5 years?

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

yes

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

I wonder what is a fee in l'X

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:58 PM

#

still far lesser than in the US.

#

but the expected salary when you finish a Grande Ecole is much lower than what you could expect out of an Ivy in the US.

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

sure, my fee was from public university

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

I think X hovers around 4k to 9k a year.

#

depending on your track.

shadow moss May 26, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

our Ivy leagues are 20-40k semester

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

The businessier, the expensiver eheh

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

so US public is similar in cost to French private top schools heh

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:00 PM

#

Basically, I paid for my French Business School through a euro 50,000 loan. Which I've since repaid in full.

#

It still hurt and I wish I hadn't done that.

#

🤷‍♀️

#

but it's done now

#

x)

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:00 PM

#

can i ask

#

how do you guys go into detail on your resume

#

for personal projects

#

i don't have a lot to write regarding them

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

Can you give an example of a project and to what (type of) company you're applying?

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

well

#

I followed a udemy course, and I made an OOP banking app

#

but I can't really write that much about it

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

you don't need a lot. It should show the goal/achievement and technologies used

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:02 PM

#

that's the thing I didn't really use a whole lot of libraries

#

python and the random library

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:04 PM

#

That's pretty rad tbh to be able to do that right after a Udemy class. A good thing to do (specifically for a resume, not a portfolio website) is to list a summary bullet point.

Developed a OOP banking app that can provide [describe the type of services] services
is a good start
Usually a bullet point on a resume should:

use a strong verb (developed, produced, created, led, etc.)
an object/item, which was achieved/performed/drafted/developped
a consequence if possible, i.e. who it helped
a number, i.e. to give a sense of scale
plus the link to the repository ofc

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

so far i have just one or two things

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

did you came up with idea and implementation by yourself?

#

or the course gives guidelines?

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:05 PM

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i mean, it's not like hosted on a server, or using a dictionary of encrypted accounts

#

the course gives objectives

#

like the app should do xyz

#

I haven't looked at the solution, but I did ask for help with a lot of parts

#

my objective was just to show that I can code in OOP

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

for a bit more context, are you writing a resume for an internship, are you in uni, etc.?

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

I am looking for data analyst positions

#

I am self taught programmer, for 2 years I have built productivity tools

#

for different jobs I've had, some have been implemented nationally

#

my educational background is psychology and economics

#

so I am used to working with data, and my last job I worked with big data as a buyer

#

currently I'm working on a dashboard project, with COVID 19 data

#

oh I have taken master level research methods and stats

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:20 PM

#

mhm. From a recruiter's perspective, they would rather hear about those productivity tools that you've built rather than a udemy project.
Your goal is to showcase that you know OOP. As such, adding a project/using a few lines on your resume for that might be overkill. If you have a skill section on your resume, you can add (OOP) in parenthesis after the mention of Python for instance, though it might be redundant.

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:21 PM

#

I have my resume structured as

#

professional experience

#

personal projects

#

skills

#

I'd put this under personal projects, and currently go more in depth in the professional experience section

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 5:22 PM

#

I am not sure this kind of udemy project is worth putting there if you already have built some proven tools and etc

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:23 PM

#

this is my first time applying for tech jobs, and I wan't to be thorough

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:23 PM

#

This--what Loss said. You already have projects. What you said you wanted is show you can do OOP. That can be put in skills (though it's usually implied that you can do it when you list languages like Python).

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 5:24 PM

#

this kind of personal project would likely play role for internship or very first job after Uni

#

when you have no professional experinece to show

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:24 PM

#

so you don't think that the fact that I never had a role as an analyst matters

#

that my resume can speak for its self, and what I'm doing by adding OOP project is overkill

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 5:25 PM

#

I am self taught programmer, for 2 years I have built productivity tools
for different jobs I've had, some have been implemented nationally
i.e. implemented nationally would impress people far more than small personal project showing OOP

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:27 PM

#

"analyst" is just a type of role. And it's got synonyms. Not gonna lie, recruiters will pay attention to your previous job titles.
But at the end of the day, you're trying to pass a robot/HR screening, there terms like OOP will be less impressive than "implemented nationally"
You should showcase what you've done with data, which you've did, not that you can do data.

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 5:27 PM

#

so I am used to working with data, and my last job I worked with big data as a buyer
currently I'm working on a dashboard project, with COVID 19 data
this too shows that you have actual prof experinece and that you worked with data

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:30 PM

#

Implemented [tool/dashboard/system] nationally [specify if it's in a company, country, etc] that enables [objective] for [target audience/users/etc. i.e. specifiying who nationally will use your creation]
Is what recruiters would love to see generally.

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:32 PM

#

alright thanks

#

I just feel like I need to show hey, I have experience working with python and data

#

and the more i put there the better

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

If you have it in skills (listing python + what library you used like numpy, etc.) it's already important.

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

what kind of languages/tools you used before?

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

do you want me to get specific

swift veldt May 26, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

showcasing a udemy project as-is might be a disservice though because people would rather remember the national thing.

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:33 PM

#

I try to structure it in terms of importance

#

I've built scrapers, created OCR projects, worked with various APIs and even legacy software like COBOL

#

in 2 years

#

I'm working with the ebay API on the side

#

I have experience with some minor shell scripts

#

on unix

#

but again, not all of this is professional work

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

I've built scrapers, created OCR projects, worked with various APIs
I mean, these things were python too?

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 5:36 PM

#

yes

#

I work almost exclusively with python

#

though I know some shell scripting as I said. I do know html and css

#

I know sql a bit

#

my scraping project I dumped into SQL

#

it was like 5 million lines of data

#

I did study SQL a year ago in an attempt to find a job

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 6:02 PM

#

well we have people here with lot more experience who are likely to give a more accurate assesment, but I think all those things will outweight that udemy OOP project by far

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

yeah im having space issues

crude crown May 26, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

sound like pretty good projects to me

#

things that are more original than capstone like projects in MOOCs are usually more interesting

cloud trail May 26, 2020, 9:39 PM

#

https://realpython.com/podcasts/rpp/10/

Episode #10: Python Job Hunting in a Pandemic – The Real Python Pod...

Do you know someone in the Python community who recently was let go from their job due to the pandemic? What does the job landscape currently look like? What are skills and techniques that will help you in your job search? This week we have Kyle Stratis on the show to discuss ...

crude crown May 26, 2020, 9:40 PM

#

nice, will have a listen

alpine spire May 26, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

lmao

icy berry May 26, 2020, 10:07 PM

#

we do not offer recruitment in this server @red rivet

#

!warn 698664044944425052 do not use this server as a recruitment platform, it clearly says not to in the topic description.

inner wrenBOT May 26, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @red rivet.

red rivet May 26, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

:(

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

yeah im having space issues
@supple fossil in which direction?

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

I'll cut the OOP project, because it's for a data analyst job. So the dashboard project is probably more appropriate

marsh wind May 26, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

so you could not fit things in? yeah then cut it for sure. I think it was unanimous as opinion here as well

vapid jay May 26, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

now*

#

Would love some advice

#

and I'm going to be adding to the involement section very soon as soon as I join some more competitions and hackathons / clubs

supple fossil May 26, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

i see you posted github links

#

what do i do if some of the things on my resume are on a private repo

crude crown May 26, 2020, 11:48 PM

#

good question

#

on a first instance, I would mention those anyway and if necessary the people that might want to check those could have temporary access to it

#

in case you already have freely available stuff, the majority of people shouldn't take up on that offer IMO

vapid jay May 26, 2020, 11:51 PM

#

so uh

#

what do i need to change

manic sable May 27, 2020, 12:27 AM

#

umm see even if its in private repo, you can describe your project right ?
and if the interviewer or someone who wants to see your project explicitly asks you, then make it public and give them the link

#

most of the time, they only read the description

#

and prince, your resume looks good

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 12:34 AM

#

thank you sir @manic sable any suggestions?

manic sable May 27, 2020, 12:34 AM

#

lol pls don't call me sir...I'm a student too

#

umm you check mine if you want

#

ping me and I'll dm you

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 12:42 AM

#

@manic sable hmu in dms 👌

marsh wind May 27, 2020, 6:11 AM

#

@vapid jay I belive you planned to reorded your tech used for covid project

#

to have backend first like in other projects

#

Also here:

📎 unknown.png

#

for me "Strong:" looks very out of place

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

Idk what else to put

marsh wind May 27, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

don't put it at all

#

just keep that list

#

First impression when you look at it it that you wanted to say "Strong Leadership" but for some reason you broke line between "Strong" and "Leadership". When you look at it again you see that it is "Strong:" and it gives rise to new questions, like do you want to apply it to the whole list?

#

then it also look weird. like.... "Strong Punctuality"? WTF. "Strong Grit Communication"? WTF again

#

oh yeah, it is also unclear to me if you mean "Grit" and "Communication" or "Grit Communication"

#

in other places (tech skills) you also don't have bullet points on line break but it kinda reads fine and it clear enough

#

so not sure what I'd do there. But drop "Strong:" for sure

fringe plume May 27, 2020, 6:25 AM

#

haha, got that strong grit communication on lock
"should I merge your branch?"
"did I fix 5 bugs or 6, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?"

#

do you put the dot on the second line before communication or on the first line after Grit?

shut geyser May 27, 2020, 7:45 AM

#

had to reread several times

#

"Internet is a Dark Dark city, but someone have to continue cloning repos. It's not pretty but its my job''

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 2:02 PM

#

Hello everyone!

limber rampart May 27, 2020, 2:02 PM

#

hey 👋

orchid thorn May 27, 2020, 2:04 PM

#

yo

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

Where to start learning python? (I know noob question:(

digital fjord May 27, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

!resources

inner wrenBOT May 27, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

Tx

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 3:33 PM

#

if it starts a new line, its intentional

#

meaning they're diff words

#

each line starts and ends with nothing

#

i'm only using the bullet things to separate diferent skills within the same line

marsh wind May 27, 2020, 4:52 PM

#

meaning they're diff words
@vapid jay yeah I got that. but it just game we the impression with Grit communication. At any rate, it's minor thing, the primary there is to drop "Strong"

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

what do i put there

#

@marsh wind

marsh wind May 27, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

what do you mean? Nothing

#

just drop the word Strong and it's fine

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

yes sir

steel minnow May 27, 2020, 5:29 PM

#

Hi I’m getting a job soon working with Python and I’ve never really delved into the language, only some others, can anyone point me in a direction? They know I’m not fluent in python and willing to let me work to learn. This is what we’re doing: “We're building a backend that flexibly connects to any data-source (DB or API) and serves it up as if it were our own” any ideas on where to learn?

#

I understand fundamentals and I’ve worked with other companies doing things like swift and web development

strange wraith May 27, 2020, 5:46 PM

#

udemy.com is great

steel minnow May 27, 2020, 5:53 PM

#

Thanks I’ve done a lot of self learning when I was younger I wish I had Udemy when I was that age haha

vapid jay May 27, 2020, 5:57 PM

#

So many people miss out on Udemy it pains me

#

they rather spend hundreds or even thousands on other websites, other courses

#

when u can legit buy $10 courses on udemy

main spoke May 27, 2020, 6:01 PM

#

I don't like udemy maybe it's cause I didn't rly choose any of the courses someone just gifted then to be but I didn't learn anything from them

mild zenith May 27, 2020, 6:04 PM

#

I kind of see them as good refreshers but not the best for learning. But I might just be biased against those kinds of sites in general. The material they cover always feels very shallow, with few examples and exercises to really drill home what's needed

little reef May 27, 2020, 6:09 PM

#

Guys is the PCAP cert worth getting?

little reef May 27, 2020, 6:44 PM

#

Anyone?

marsh wind May 27, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

meh

gusty stump May 27, 2020, 7:30 PM

#

Ive got loads of spare time rn and thinking how i can use my time productively - is hackerrank worth it/putting on my CV?

upbeat elm May 27, 2020, 9:27 PM

#

IMO not

#

IMO it's better to go through official docs and have a list of cool projects to test your skills on and practice

#

hackerrank and leet code are good if you want to practice for coding interviews

inland swallow May 27, 2020, 9:29 PM

#

If you take them seriously in a competitive sense and you find some success, then it's great for your resume. But do you really want to be competing with the internet?

wheat oxide May 27, 2020, 11:29 PM

#

@gusty stump Personally, I'd be more interested in someone who invested their time in being productive, though I'd see someone doing well in contests as someone who'd had good practice

burnt tiger May 28, 2020, 3:13 AM

#

@gusty stump Challenge sites like hackerrank and codewars are great for practice, and you can potentially mention them as an interest, but employers are typically much more interested in projects. If you have a decent amount of spare time, I would recommend looking into contributing to an open source project that interests you. This allows you to build real-world experience in working on relevant projects that you can directly link to potential employers on your CV (since the source code is fully public) and practice working with other developers, which is arguably one of the most valuable skills for a software developer.

#

Optimally, you want to find something that's mature enough to have good resources for on-boarding new contributors, but not to the extent that the pace of development is slow.

#

Often times, the best way to start is by helping them with documentation issues. Even something as simple as a typo fix is very much welcome, especially if you're just getting started

plush cosmos May 28, 2020, 3:17 AM

#

hey @burnt tiger how can I go about helping with open source projects

#

this seems like a good idea and I honestly never thought about it lol

burnt tiger May 28, 2020, 3:18 AM

#

It's going to somewhat vary from project to project, but I would start by finding something in an area of software development that interests you, and then checking out their contributing guide.

#

The majority of them are hosted on GitHub these days

summer roost May 28, 2020, 3:18 AM

#

it's often good to start with a contribution to documentation - it'll teach you the contributing process for that project, get the developers to recognize you as someone who is trying to help, and will usually be pretty uncontroversial and easy to get merged.

plush cosmos May 28, 2020, 3:19 AM

#

Cool, I'll check on github, i feel like this might actually help me because I have been struggling to find that motivation

#

don't know what to do and hackerrank and leetcode are driving me nuts

burnt tiger May 28, 2020, 3:20 AM

#

Yeah, I spent a decent amount of time on challenge sites as well, but it does eventually get to the point where the problems become increasingly esoteric and less practically useful for most software developers

summer roost May 28, 2020, 3:21 AM

#

if you're a very new developer, coding interviews tend to focus a lot on hackerrank and leetcode style questions. projects may help you get the interview, but the interview itself will usually have some problems of that sort.

burnt tiger May 28, 2020, 3:22 AM

#

Yeah, but the majority of companies tend to use a pool of fairly simple questions for their interviews and aren't going to ask anything that's ridiculously involved, unless you're applying for a very popular tech company, such as FAANG (facebook, amazon, apple, netflix, google)

summer roost May 28, 2020, 3:23 AM

#

unless you build a project that has a relatively large number of users, at least. Then maybe an interview can talk about questions like how you prioritize user concerns, how you manage backwards compatibility, etc - but for personal projects, they're mostly just helpful as something to get your resume to the top of the pile, not something that's helpful in the interview itself.

#

@burnt tiger - that's also true. once you feel comfortable with hackerrank/leetcode style questions, you're right that you don't need to do all of them, heh

burnt tiger May 28, 2020, 3:24 AM

#

In those cases, the main purpose of the hard interview questions is just to trim down their massive pool of candidates, even if it eliminates some good ones

summer roost May 28, 2020, 3:24 AM

#

but you do need to be comfortable with that style of coming up with an algorithm quickly. whether you do that by practicing on leetcode or reading up on common interview questions to get a handle on the techniques, either way works.

#

all I'm saying is, if you want to get hired, projects alone aren't sufficient.

burnt tiger May 28, 2020, 3:25 AM

#

agreed

#

Fundamentally though, they're really looking for good problem solving and communication skills, which you can definitely build from working on challenging projects. I recommend a mix of both challenge sites and projects, and lean a bit more towards the method you find preferable

plush cosmos May 28, 2020, 3:27 AM

#

yea i definitely will not stop practicing algo's and such but I want something with depth, I just feel like my brain is getting tired of just doing that over and over again

#

I want to feel like im actually contributing something

#

At my last job I got to learn and actually do fun stuff where I was contributing

#

but with leetcode my motivation dwindles down fairly quickly

summer roost May 28, 2020, 3:28 AM

#

if you ever encounter a bug in a tool you're using, try figuring out what causes it. 🙂

#

even if you can't quite figure it out, you may be able to file a good enough bug report to help the maintainer piece things together. and digging into other people's code is a great way to learn fast.

burnt tiger May 28, 2020, 3:29 AM

#

You can also check out some other programming challenge sites, I found codewars to have more interesting community-crafted ones compared to leetcode.

summer roost May 28, 2020, 3:29 AM

#

i was into project euler for a while back in college.

burnt tiger May 28, 2020, 3:30 AM

#

Maintainers of open source projects will also intentionally leave around several easy to fix issues on their bug tracker for new contributors to work on, we certainly do that on bugs.python.org.

#

(By we, I mean the Python core development team, which I fairly recently joined)

summer roost May 28, 2020, 3:32 AM

#

congrats 🙂

burnt tiger May 28, 2020, 3:32 AM

#

Thanks! I just joined last month in April after a year of actively contributing

plush cosmos May 28, 2020, 3:33 AM

#

thats cool, thanks for the advice guys, I am trying to expand my knowledge and get that ball rolling

dark salmon May 28, 2020, 3:56 AM

#

hey all, i was wonderin if it is okay to ask for resume reviews here?

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 7:21 AM

#

Someone else has posted theirs recently so I'm guessing it's not a problem

fringe plume May 28, 2020, 11:01 AM

#

Lol, application page for company >I've checked that everything is correct. I also promise that I don't smoke. (Why?)
Guess where that Why leads to, apparently "all those breaks" add up to a lot of time, and time is money $$$ -_-

#

imagine letting your monkeys take a break on the company dime ^^

open stag May 28, 2020, 2:01 PM

#

I was told to not focus on a language and instead focus on a job field I enjoy working in, so that being said, is there a list of different skills that different job fields need that I can try out to see if I enjoy them?

vast shoal May 28, 2020, 2:21 PM

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I'm not aware of any such compilation.

#

But if you pick a particular field and search around, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what you need to learn, at least on a basic level.

violet condor May 28, 2020, 2:27 PM

#

hey guys, i've got a question i'd like to clarify: would web development be a dead carrer?
i mean considering the fact that there are more 'website builder' websites like wix.com, why would people write hundereds of lines of code when they can create their very own website with ease?

vast shoal May 28, 2020, 2:28 PM

#

It's the opposite of a dead career. There's huge demand for web developers.

#

Website builders impose limitations on the functionality and customization possibilities of the websites created with them.

#

Maybe they are sufficient for an online store run by single-person company, but web development is more than just making websites, a lot of web apps are frontends to more complex backend applications.

#

Website builders won't generally allow for being customized to custom backend APIs.

#

And there's tons of systems like that.

violet condor May 28, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

ohh i see

#

thanks @vast shoal!

vast shoal May 28, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

👍

violet condor May 28, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

so if i attend some web dev courses, will i be taught both front and back end dev or just one of them?

vast shoal May 28, 2020, 2:34 PM

#

I think most would probably teach you the basics of both nowadays.

violet condor May 28, 2020, 2:34 PM

#

ah i see

vast shoal May 28, 2020, 2:35 PM

#

If not, there's a lot of material online.

digital fjord May 28, 2020, 2:35 PM

#

the university of helsinki has a free online english back+frontend webdev course

violet condor May 28, 2020, 2:36 PM

#

the university of helsinki has a free online english back+frontend webdev course
@digital fjord oh thanks for your suggestion!

#

im new to programming so im not rly familiar with anything 😛

vast shoal May 28, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

We have a lot of resources here on the server as well

#

!resources

inner wrenBOT May 28, 2020, 2:41 PM

#

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

vast shoal May 28, 2020, 2:41 PM

#

A lot of which is relevant for webdev

inner wrenBOT May 28, 2020, 3:27 PM

#

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

open stag May 28, 2020, 4:19 PM

#

But if you pick a particular field and search around, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out what you need to learn, at least on a basic level.
@vast shoal That's the problem though, there's so many "particular fields" that I don't know where to start.

#

I want to try a lot of things in a lot of languages if need be and see if I even enjoy them

white karma May 28, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

Try things out, stick with what you like

#

The knowledge you get from what you learn is somewhat transferable

open stag May 28, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

I don't know what to try out

#

That's my issue

white karma May 28, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

What are you interested in?

open stag May 28, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

I do not know.

#

I like programming but that's just about it.

white karma May 28, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

You have no interests outside of programming?

open stag May 28, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

Not really

#

I mean I like playing games I guess

#

And I like coming up with ideas for games

#

like balancing and what not

open stag May 28, 2020, 5:35 PM

#

I'm not sure where I should start though

#

I like game dev, but I feel like I wouldn't land a job.

halcyon plank May 28, 2020, 5:51 PM

#

Heya

#

Ok! So I am currently doing my Bachelors in CS and I am in my 1st year(it's a 4 year course)

#

Do you guys think opting for a Masters in CS after completing my Bachelors will be better or going for a job?

quasi stag May 28, 2020, 5:55 PM

#

There is no clear answer for that. But you will probably know by end of your bachelors 😉

#

My personal recommendation would be to go for a masters.

halcyon plank May 28, 2020, 5:57 PM

#

Great to know that 😬👍

shadow moss May 28, 2020, 6:01 PM

#

InfamousBolt, are you an american?

#

if so, the debt you take getting a master is not likely to pay off

open stag May 28, 2020, 6:03 PM

#

yeah

#

the us college system is messed up unless you get a scholarship

vapid jay May 28, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

Do not pay for a masters

#

And a Masters in CS does not make you a hacker programmer, it makes you a master of computer science.

white karma May 28, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

Does it allow me to will motherboards into existence?

open stag May 28, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

No.

white karma May 28, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

Darn

vapid jay May 28, 2020, 6:56 PM

#

That's EE/CompE

topaz walrus May 28, 2020, 6:57 PM

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even EE/CompE wont let you do that

#

i can hardly will a astable multivibrator into existence

halcyon plank May 28, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

Ah! I am from India @shadow moss

#

I have seen that mostly people get jobs in the tech giants if they pursue an MS from a uni in US

shadow moss May 28, 2020, 7:15 PM

#

then Masters

#

Masters in United States is entry point for American Visa

halcyon plank May 28, 2020, 7:16 PM

#

Oh yah! A ticket to US as they say

shadow moss May 28, 2020, 7:16 PM

#

it can be, yes

#

four Indian coworkers I have, 3 of them came that way

halcyon plank May 28, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

Oh cool!

shadow moss May 28, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

but you do end up with some debt

halcyon plank May 28, 2020, 7:18 PM

#

Yah that's true

#

I heard MS in US can be pretty expensive

shadow moss May 28, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

yep

open stag May 28, 2020, 8:58 PM

#

What projects should I try out to see which job would be best for me?

#

It can be for any language (not just python)

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:01 PM

#

anything more specific than that?

#

just in general? that's pretty broad

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:01 PM

#

I have no clue what kind of position I want to go in

#

So I'm trying to narrow it down

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:02 PM

#

Me neither

#

I'm not sure whether to pursue Data Science or more general SWE

#

It's a tough decision

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:02 PM

#

I don't even have it narrowed down to options

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

alright well I'm in web development, and we often split into frontend/backend/devops specialties

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

Is it true that Front End get paid less ?

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

no lol

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

Which gets paid the most out of the three?

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

I mean it depends on the market

#

depends on the market and experience

#

always

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:03 PM

#

I could try Web dev

#

I also wonder if I could be able to get a job in game dev

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

So there's no general consensus as to which has the highest ceiling ?

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

general SWE is a safer bet

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

Or there's also machine learning

#

And I have no clue what to try out.

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

macha why do you say that?

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

I'm pretty sure github releases stats from their annual survey

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

Is that for github staff or the users? Sounds useful if it's the latter

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

in short, way more job offers vs candidates in "general" SWE compared to Data Science

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:04 PM

#

I love salary surveys

#

Ok Macha thanks, I'm really stuck in this decision

#

I have the option to do a masters in either Software Development or Data Science

#

And coming from a non-CS background I need to do one of these for employers to even consider me

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

for DS you'll need decent enough SW skills in order to be minimally productive considering today's standards

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

if you're trying to get the most money out of it, then you should specialize

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

I like DS but I'm worried the MSc won't be well regarded

#

Don't most DS people at good tech companies have like Stats Master's and PhD's?

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:06 PM

#

It depends on the kind of roles you're aiming for...

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

I'm just into Data Science, Machine Learning, Deep Learning, Neural Networks all that stuff. But I'm guessing it's much harder to find well-paying work in these fields

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:07 PM

#

yes it is.

#

and everyone's into ML nowadays

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

I know people say money shouldn't factor into it but I really would like a job where within 5-10 years I could be on 100k

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

again, it probably depends on where you're looking

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

that amount really depends on where you live

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

Because it's so expensive to live here (Ireland)

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

e.g. my company right now is looking for a data scientist

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

ok, Ireland

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

oh dublin is full of great tech companies

#

avoiding those US taxes

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:08 PM

#

I'd say it's a safer bet anyway to go into SWE

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

yeah there's loads here but there's lots of highly skilled labour here too

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

and eventually pivot into management

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

And many international workers

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

yup, I know some people working over there.

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:09 PM

#

Macha I would like to enter management down the line but I've heard DS have an easier time climbing to management?

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

where did you hear that?

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

Hmm, I don't think it's really different compared to SWE in that sense.

#

but I've read somethings about that

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

A few threads on Reddit and Quora and the likes

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

I'd imagine it depends fully on the company

#

the types of people they hire into DS roles vs SWE roles and the number of those people

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:10 PM

#

if you're working as a Data Scientist and not a ML Engineer, you'll need to do presentations regularly

#

to communicate with stakeholders regularly

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

So does anyone have anything to add to just the two items I have:
WebDev and Game Development

#

for stuff for me to try out this summer

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

but that depends on the company too...

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

I don't mind giving presentations if it's something I'm interested in

#

I'd really just like a career with a high ceiling and a steady pathway to it

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:11 PM

#

whatever path you chose, you'll have to do those

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

So I'm guessing it's SWE

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

have you read about the typical day to day of some roles?

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

you'll probably have to give presentations whether or not you're interested in the material

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

What does web development even involve?

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

for example, have you read about the typical day to day of a Data Scientist? a ML Engineer? a Data Engineer? a Backend enginer? etc.

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

Yeah so I'd better choose a job where the presentations and material I'm engaged with interests me ^^

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

building & deploying websites

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:12 PM

#

What is working for a game company like?

#

I don't think I want to do machine learning

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

and another thing... you'll eventually get tired of things.

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

That's a good question macha and something I need to look into more

stable cipher May 28, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

the presentations will always revolve around the business impact of data

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

that will happen in any path you choose.

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

If I could find a list of programming jobs and a brief summary I could seriously narrow down my options

#

I literally have it narrowed down to nothing

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:13 PM

#

but in some paths... you might feel worse overall.

#

there's no such thing as a perfect or great job, unless you're one of the lucky ones

#

@grizzled trout, let me see in my notes if I have something in that sense.

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:15 PM

#

Thanks a lot. As for ML engineers, would a DS Master's be a good first step towards that?

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:15 PM

#

https://80000hours.org/career-reviews/

80,000 Hours

Peter Hartree

Our list of high-impact careers - 80,000 Hours

80,000 Hours aims to identify particularly high-impact career paths for our readers to consider. We do this by trying to identify the most pressing global problems and the key obstacles to progress within them. Right now, this has led us to focus on career paths that reduce gl...

#

in most companies, a ML Engineer is essentially a Software Engineer specialized in the development of ML Systems

#

80% of the time you'll be doing the work of a backend developer or dwelling in somethings related to data engineering.

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:16 PM

#

Does your job involve programming macha

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:16 PM

#

yes, I'm currently working as an ML engineer.

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:16 PM

#

That sounds enjoyable enough to me

#

I think finding work as a ML Engineer can be tough though

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:17 PM

#

What does your job involve?

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:17 PM

#

the other 20% of the time, if you're lucky and it depends on the company, you'll be doing some more DS focused stuff.

#

@open stag It really depends on what I'm currently working on.

#

Sometimes I'm pretty much a software developer

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

Macha may I ask what your Bachelor's/Master's was in and how you made it to your current role? Did you enter the company as a SWE and gradually became more specialized or did you specialize before?

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:18 PM

#

other times I'm purely focused on applied research.

#

well, I've some years of XP by now

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

Sure

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

I've actually studied ECE

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

So what is your daily work life like?

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:19 PM

#

and at the end of college I've worked for 2/3 years in an applied research institute as a research engineer

#

afterwards I've decided to give a try in working as a pure Python developer.

#

and now I'm working as an ML engineer

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:20 PM

#

I've heard sticking to things like Electronic Engineering is better at University as it's more theory based and will be of more lasting benefit. The material on software/DS master's can change quickly

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:20 PM

#

I have a kind of an unorthodox path.

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:20 PM

#

My friend's dad studied ECE and he's a really successful SWE now

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

well, my daily work life is basically the same as a software developer

#

in a typical day

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

I do not know what that means

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:21 PM

#

I've got a sprint daily or two (depends on how many teams I'm in)

#

then I start working on SW dev or DS stuff

#

have assorted meetings, like sprint groomings, all-hands meetings, etc.

#

move tickets around in a JIRA board.

#

kinda run of the mill stuff if you look outwardly.

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:23 PM

#

Oh

#

That doesn't sound like my kind of thing

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:23 PM

#

Is it an intense environment or can you take it at more of a relaxed base when you're working?

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:23 PM

#

well, the routine I've described is the vast majority of jobs in the software industry.

#

depends on the time periods, but in these past months it's been relatively chill for me.

#

but that's because I stopped caring so much.

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:24 PM

#

Lol

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:24 PM

#

It's as intense as you want it to be basically.

#

but YMMV, it really depends on the company and the country you're in.

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

huh

#

maybe I don't want to go into a programming field then

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

your milage may vary^

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:25 PM

#

but from what I've heard, over there in Ireland is relatively chill overalll.

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:25 PM

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because that doesnt sound like something I'd enjoy in the slightest

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:25 PM

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yeah I have lots of friends in tech here and they all have it pretty chilled

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But it can be hard to get your foot in the door when you're starting off

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:26 PM

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yes, specially nowadays from what I read sometimes.

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:26 PM

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Maybe I'll look at other fields

grizzled trout May 28, 2020, 9:26 PM

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Thanks for the help

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:26 PM

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because general software dev doesnt sound like something I'd do

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:27 PM

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You'll get used to it.

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If you're not sure, here's a good heuristic:

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1- Find the options that can make some money and realistically you think have the skills/"talent" to get into those

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2- From these options, choose the one that you'll tolerate the most.

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:33 PM

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I don't think I have any talent

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:33 PM

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do note the quotes around "talent"

meager nymph May 28, 2020, 9:34 PM

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You don't need talent to do most software engineering jobs.

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:34 PM

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yup

meager nymph May 28, 2020, 9:34 PM

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Persistence, patience, and a tolerance to being frustrated/not getting it right away is all thats required.

white karma May 28, 2020, 9:35 PM

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“The master has failed more times than the apprentice has ever tried”

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Or something like that

open stag May 28, 2020, 9:35 PM

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hmmm

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I need to find options though

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Because I'd prefer to get a job I enjoy

crude crown May 28, 2020, 9:36 PM

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everyone kind of does

meager nymph May 28, 2020, 9:36 PM

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ofcourse.