#career-advice | Python | Page 344

vapid jay May 7, 2020, 6:39 PM

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Ves is Dutch.. you should ask him when he's around

near schooner May 7, 2020, 6:44 PM

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Do you all find it better being in a position with a lot of responsibility and work with few people or work with a lot of people with less responsibility?

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What's more efficient for learning/experience?

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 6:46 PM

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I'll take the latter, but I'm pretty junior
I was at a startup before going back to school and having a lot on my plate certainly was stressful at times, especially when you want to learn and do a good job but are stressed by management to speed up development

near schooner May 7, 2020, 6:47 PM

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I have about a year of experience in a python job, but I have the opportunity to go into a half development/half architecture job that I could do, but I would have a lot more responsibility and would need to really focus on learning new tech that comes across my lap. Which I'd be fine with, I'm just not use to running the show.

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 6:47 PM

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Oh wow, that sounds pretty cool

near schooner May 7, 2020, 6:48 PM

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But I have 4 years of experience in cybersecurity, which this position focuses on

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I like my job now, but mgmt sucks and it's nearly impossible to get raises

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 6:48 PM

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I guess it all depends on your taste for risk and what you want to get out of your career. And oh shit, that's awesome! I was supposed to do an internship in cybersecurity specifically focusing on architecture and threat/risk modelling, but that got nixed due to coronavirus

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Well not nixed, but reduced from 10-weeks to a 2-week 'experience'

near schooner May 7, 2020, 6:50 PM

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I think it'd be good to get some experience on my belt with doing things on my own and running the show. I'll probably flounder at first, but I kind of enjoy that fire underneath my ass that forces me to learn things. I program a lot in my free time, but at work I get pretty apathetic towards really boring projects.

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 6:51 PM

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All leaders gonna flounder early on I guess, but I'm sure you'll get the hang of it quickly

near schooner May 7, 2020, 6:53 PM

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Sometimes I wish there were career therapists lol

mild zenith May 7, 2020, 7:01 PM

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There's career counselors. That's kind of close.

near schooner May 7, 2020, 7:01 PM

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Something like that would be nice. The new position isn't what I want to do in the long term, but it'd give me a lot of skills that I haven't had the chance to learn yet. Also it's a 56% pay increase.

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also my good friend is my boss now...so I can't talk to him about it

mild zenith May 7, 2020, 7:03 PM

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Are you fresh out of college or still in it or what's your situation?

near schooner May 7, 2020, 7:04 PM

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I'm out of college by 2 years, but have been working full time for about 4, 1 year in python development right now.

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My goal is to do python development and machine learning in netsec, which my position is right now. But management is pretty bad, and it's hard to get raises.

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My goal is to be extremely technical and I want to work on very interesting projects. I feel like early on in my career if I took a position of responsibility and money, that it'll prepare me for the future when I work on more risky ventures.

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 7:07 PM

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My goal is to do python development and machine learning in netsec
That's pretty awesome, coincidentally for a class I had been reading a few papers about machine learning methods applied to build models for detecting ransomware attacks

near schooner May 7, 2020, 7:08 PM

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I don't know much about machine learning yet, I was hired onto the team to implement their models into production. But I am taking a class right now so that I can start at least doing the data engineering and potentially start making models. I'm pretty terrible at statistics and linear algebra..

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 7:08 PM

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Been curious about how those two fields can further intersect

near schooner May 7, 2020, 7:08 PM

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But thank you, it is really fun

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We do a lot with detecting malicious files and reducing false positives

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There's a million things you can do though with ML and netsec

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 7:09 PM

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How does the detection part work?

near schooner May 7, 2020, 7:10 PM

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You have a large dataset of malicious files and clean files, you extract features that will help you determine the prediction. Having a reverse engineer help/guide you with feature extraction is VERY useful.

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Which I was previously a reverse engineer.

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But we have a team of reverse engineers who do that work.

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I switched to development and focused on AWS services and automating our pipeline and what not rather than a pure focus on malware and netsec

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since it's way more fun programming than it is sitting in a debugger all day

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 7:11 PM

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Oh wow, even doubly amazing. I want to take a class on reverse engineering at my school come the spring, gonna take one on Unix programming in the fall as a prereq

near schooner May 7, 2020, 7:12 PM

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Reverse engineering can be a lot of fun, but is difficult and can be boring/tedious

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But that's just my biased view. I really just love creating things.

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In RE, you get to personally understand malware authors and how they work, track nation states and their TTPs

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You can figure out ways of detecting those files, which is very satisfying when it works well

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I wrote a lot of yara rules for detecting malware and it was nice seeing the rules I made getting a massive amount of true positive hits

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and development is a fundamental skill for it as well

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If you need/want resources, I can send them to you

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 7:15 PM

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Sure, I'll take anything really. I'll need something to do over the summer lol

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I greatly appreciate it

near schooner May 7, 2020, 7:16 PM

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Grab the book "Practical Malware Analysis", it's basically 90% of what you need to know to get a job in reverse engineering

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 7:16 PM

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Oh nice, its on Libgen

near schooner May 7, 2020, 7:17 PM

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https://github.com/rshipp/awesome-malware-analysis

GitHub

rshipp/awesome-malware-analysis

A curated list of awesome malware analysis tools and resources. - rshipp/awesome-malware-analysis

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https://github.com/RPISEC/Malware

GitHub

RPISEC/Malware

Course materials for Malware Analysis by RPISEC. Contribute to RPISEC/Malware development by creating an account on GitHub.

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You'll want to learn about Windows Internals as well

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 7:18 PM

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What tools do you usually use on the job? Coincidentally I have a copy of Ghidra sitting on my drive lmao

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Since I know a lot of the good ones are paid

near schooner May 7, 2020, 7:20 PM

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Ghidra is a great start, especially since it's free. I used Ida pro since my company paid for it, but Ghidra is fine to begin with. Also used Binary ninja a little bit. Also used radare, which is great for programming with. Then finally x64DBG/X32DBG for debugging malware.

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You'll learn more about those tools as you read about them and their specific uses

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There is a free version of ida but it's pretty limited. You can still learn on it just fine. Idk what the industry standard is now, but it's probably shifting towards ghidra since it's open source and free...

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Practical malware analysis is the best resource though imo

fathom pecan May 7, 2020, 7:23 PM

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Binary ninja looks quite nice

zenith inlet May 7, 2020, 8:05 PM

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hopper has a great ui if you're on mac but its not that powerful

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and its pricy

thick fable May 8, 2020, 12:41 AM

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Ghidra is incredibly slow though, since it's java based

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I still use IDA for most of my reversing. Ghidra is ok for small binaries

placid hawk May 8, 2020, 5:45 AM

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Hi, I know a bit of python(bit more than a beginner) and I wanted to know what should I work on next if I want to pursue a career in game developement...

latent warren May 8, 2020, 6:13 AM

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try to learm gamedev libraries.

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Pygame, arcade, are 2 basic 2d games i know

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once you know how to work with 2d, try to move to pyglet, panda3d, for 3d game development.

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?resources

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!resources

inner wrenBOT May 8, 2020, 6:14 AM

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Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

placid hawk May 8, 2020, 6:32 AM

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Thanks for the advice . I'll Try to work with 2d now.

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also should I stick to python or move to some other language?

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 6:39 AM

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Uhhh, if you are really serious about game development and want a decent amount of funding from it, Python isn't for you. You would need to study C# for Unity Game Engine, C++ for Unreal Engine

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But really, your safest bet is C++ language since a shit ton of game engines run it as their main language

vast shoal May 8, 2020, 11:50 AM

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@placid hawk While C++ is probably the most common language in the industry, I want to stress that it's probably not a good idea to bang your head against that wall until you are comfortable developing games in a language like Python or C# first.

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You're not going to be wasting time learning game development in Python and C# first, because it's much easier to go from already being familiar with Python and C# and learning C++ than it is to learn C++ when you're new to programming and game development.

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C++ has a lot of weird language-specific quirks you don't need to concern yourself with when you're first starting out.

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:20 PM

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My interviewers last week said they'd hire me after looking at the work I had done with a "test" project they gave me and that I'd be 100% be contacted within a week. It's been almost 2 weeks and still no call.

How possible is it that they just needed the project and will not contact me?

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Is this a common wait time?

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:21 PM

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it did happen they don't contact in the promised time

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I'd follow up with them though

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:24 PM

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I contacted them on whatsapp but they haven't replied since yesterday

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:35 PM

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call if you can

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wait whatsapp?

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someone uses whatsapp for this?:)

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I thought it's phone/email

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:36 PM

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Well they gave me their number after I contacted them through email. They're a small startup which is why it worries me

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:40 PM

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is that "test" project something that is like a real thing that can be used?

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:40 PM

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Not actually complete but yes

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:41 PM

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was it difficult/time consuming etc?

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usually compaines don't do such thing (use interviewrs for unpaid work)

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:45 PM

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Took me about 5 days. It included scraping data, calculating poisson distribution and training 2 ML models (svm nd Random Forest) to predict future outcomes

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I think I've been duped

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It was my first ever interview so I had no idea what to do tbh

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I think they're capable of doing these without me but the paranoia in me is still bugging me

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:47 PM

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Took me about 5 days. I
Since it was rather big and difficult or due to lack of experience in field?

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anyway I would call them on phone

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:47 PM

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Lack of experience on ML tbh

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I'll just call thrm on monday. Give it a little bit more time

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:48 PM

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cause 5 days is a lot. But if for actual employee it would take like half day -> I don't think you've been duped

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:48 PM

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^this makes sense and actually gave me relief

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@vapid jay nah. you haven't been duped.

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Thanks

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things just move slowly

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Especially now just after lockdown

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yeah. there's all kinds of good reasons.

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I usually give a company 4 weeks to respond

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then i write them off my list.

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:50 PM

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do you follow up them though?

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:50 PM

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I do sometimes

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those times that it has been possible, it has been worth it

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It's kinda ad though cause they're the only Data Science company in the city

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Not to say python company

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but yes, calling or just making sure they know who you are and that you're serious and probably the right fit is always good

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Sad*

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:51 PM

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I encountered compaines who have been true to the word: like they would promise to contact me within 7-10 days they would do it or even earlier

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including last one who hired me

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I also had those who ghosted me

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after promising 10000% to get back

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and who would ghost the follow up

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🤷‍♂️

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:52 PM

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after promising 10000% to get back
@marsh wind "100% calling you within this week" is what they said

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:52 PM

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follow up is important really. It shows that you care and you are motivated

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if you don't follow up after 2 weeks of slince they might decie you are not interested

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@vapid jay well don't write the off the list until you follow up and they don't reply

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imo

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:54 PM

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it's not always about them deciding you're not interested. it's just that things get lost, and people forget etc.

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:54 PM

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that too

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but like limagine, things get lost but then they find your file

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:54 PM

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the hiring process can be messy. it's not some robotic thing where things go in some linear fashion always

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somebody reminds somebody "hey, check on that one guy"

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:54 PM

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and see that since 1-2 months they forgot to contact you

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but you never got back

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:54 PM

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or you contact somebody and then you're back in

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I am mostly getting paranoid and stressed about it because it's the only data science job I found in 2 months. Aside from this I only found 3 django jobs

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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they might think like "ehhh if he'd care he'd write"

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is it a small city?

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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Small country

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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ah

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 12:55 PM

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Only programming jobs include js,php and .net

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 12:58 PM

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imo, if they interviewed you and promised an offer during covid19 outbreak they probably mean it

neon moat May 8, 2020, 1:00 PM

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keep looking for jobs and applying

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dont wait on these companies if they are too slow

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nothing wrong with chasing up with them, but dont hang around

shadow moss May 8, 2020, 1:13 PM

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DeuxExPersona, was it a project that could be used?

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Lossberg, using interviewees for actual projects happens, more then you think

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 1:26 PM

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really?

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I heard it happens

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but I thought it was still few and far between

shadow moss May 8, 2020, 1:40 PM

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once you get some experience under your belt, most people figure it out

wanton mica May 8, 2020, 3:10 PM

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if anyone is interested

mild zenith May 8, 2020, 3:16 PM

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@wanton mica This really isn't the kind of place for advertising job links like that. We're an education server, not a jobs board

wanton mica May 8, 2020, 3:17 PM

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yes i know i'm sorry

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but i was really looking for a job to boost my fiver acount

mild zenith May 8, 2020, 3:17 PM

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There are other places you can do that, just not in this server

wanton mica May 8, 2020, 3:17 PM

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it is very hard for new users to get a job

mild zenith May 8, 2020, 3:17 PM

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We even have a couple links in this channel description

wanton mica May 8, 2020, 3:18 PM

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what

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what links

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?

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can you sedn them to me please

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i saw them thanks

deep flicker May 8, 2020, 4:56 PM

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@neon moat This is actually good advice, I was doing that but in the end accepted another company instead of the other one I preferred and which had me waiting on them for official offer. Now that company has suspended all hirings because of covid and I would be unemployed for god knows how long.

neon moat May 8, 2020, 4:57 PM

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are u employed now

deep flicker May 8, 2020, 4:57 PM

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yes! I accepted the offer from the other company since the preferred one had me wait for basically a whole month.

neon moat May 8, 2020, 4:57 PM

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thats good a decision

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can be indicative of their attitude in the first place

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any company thats expects you to wait a month for a decision is detached from the demand that is out there for engineers

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its a sellers market, and a lot of companies still think its a buyers market

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completely detached

deep flicker May 8, 2020, 5:00 PM

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I'm still a student technically, plus I'm not in an Engineering course, I'm in one of those applied data-sciency courses

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so I'm quite happy I found one to begin with

neon moat May 8, 2020, 5:00 PM

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hardest part imo is getting your foot in the door

deep flicker May 8, 2020, 5:00 PM

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since my bachelor was in foreign literatures

neon moat May 8, 2020, 5:01 PM

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i got no qualifications 🤷‍♂️

deep flicker May 8, 2020, 5:01 PM

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nice! I wish I hadn't spent so much time in uni honestly, even in this data science course they don't teach you much about industry tools

neon moat May 8, 2020, 5:02 PM

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dont get hung up on stuff like that, it is what it is

deep flicker May 8, 2020, 5:02 PM

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I mean I said nice because it sounds like you already have a career regardless right?

neon moat May 8, 2020, 5:03 PM

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I mean I have a career I enjoy now, but last 8-10 years i was broke and unhappy

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my story is pinned to this channel if u wanted to read

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its a very competitive market out there

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even if you have a CS degree you stil have to perform

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the competition is too high for companies to hand postions to people anymore just becuase on paper they are educated

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if i had a time machine I would do some type of degree, whether it be maths, or CS skills

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Because it would of saved me 8 years of suck

deep flicker May 8, 2020, 5:07 PM

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yeah, I worked a nice but low paying job for 5 years before switching

neon moat May 8, 2020, 5:07 PM

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in an office?

deep flicker May 8, 2020, 5:08 PM

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No, luckly. This is my first experience in an office

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I did a 6 month internship before this in r&d however, but it was really chill and different from "average" software engineering work

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I'm a month in and the pace is quite high

neon moat May 8, 2020, 5:12 PM

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Sounds good

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Get some experience under your belt and you're good to go

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sounds like you're doing great

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 5:43 PM

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its a sellers market, and a lot of companies still think its a buyers market
@neon moat what do you mean by this?

neon moat May 8, 2020, 5:44 PM

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@marsh wind Sellers are the ones selling their skills, i.e. software engineers, because there are more jobs than there are unemployed engineers. A buyers market is the opposite, when there is an abundance of unemployed people but few jobs open

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 5:45 PM

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it would seem that entry level is a buyers one.

neon moat May 8, 2020, 5:46 PM

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Its an interesting topic, there arent enough mid-senior engineers out there to satisfy current openings. So i would say companies have no choice but to either wait 12months or invest in a junior

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and by that time any hungry junior should be touching mid level anyway

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in which case they are in a much stronger negotiating position

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 5:50 PM

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intersting.....

neon moat May 8, 2020, 5:50 PM

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Any skilled developers will be snapped up and arent usually unemployed

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so for companies to take so long to make hiring decisions it doesnt equate to hiring better quality people

marsh wind May 8, 2020, 6:14 PM

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I see. The reason I wondered is that in my experinece I had been rejected or ghosted more than once for entry-ish level positions and they wer still hanging out several months after @neon moat

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which brought me to conlculusion that they'd do better hiring me few monts ago and bring up to speed till now

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then look for a unicorn aka ideal candidate

kind sky May 8, 2020, 6:19 PM

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I am really confused in choosing between python and c#, can someone help

neon moat May 8, 2020, 6:21 PM

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What do you want to learn, what type of job do you want, plus which languages are hiring in your area

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 6:33 PM

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Hey is there a name for using computer skills against organized crime?

neon moat May 8, 2020, 6:36 PM

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Cyber Security?

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 6:37 PM

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Is cyber security used for like, hacking into the mob or something like that?

neon moat May 8, 2020, 6:39 PM

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what do you mean

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 6:40 PM

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Like can I join a police force and hack into the mob and take them down or something?

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Is there a name for that field?

opal perch May 8, 2020, 6:41 PM

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cris how old are you?

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 6:43 PM

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24? 25 in two weeks.

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Did I say something dumb?
I'm sorry.... ( ._.)

white karma May 8, 2020, 6:53 PM

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Cyber security is used mostly for keeping servers and sensitive data secure

neon moat May 8, 2020, 6:54 PM

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Sounds like you are talking about a very niche part of working for your government

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 6:54 PM

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Just wanna do my part in putting bad guys away

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I should wear a mask!! :O

neon moat May 8, 2020, 6:55 PM

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What languages and skills do you have

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 6:56 PM

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....... None... ( ._.)
I started my first coding experience with python and I've been using the "Grasshopper" and "SoloLearn" app to learn.

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So, beginner's Python and Javascript

neon moat May 8, 2020, 6:57 PM

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I can't help sorry. But good luck

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 7:02 PM

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I'm learnin

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 7:41 PM

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@eternal crest are u trying to learn both python and is?

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Js*

plain valley May 8, 2020, 7:41 PM

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Chris, from my experience in order to join a police cyber division you first have to apply to be a police officer. Then internally you can apply for that position

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I'm neither of those, but I was curious enough to call them and look into it years back

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 7:43 PM

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CYBER DIVISION! That was the word I was looking for

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 7:43 PM

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@eternal crest and btw SoloLearn is a great place to start learning code

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 7:43 PM

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I heard Python wasn't too hard to learn and so, I decided to start learning it.
I'm also a procrastinator.
And "If Statements" are such bitches! ( ._.)

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 7:44 PM

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What u find so confusing about it? @eternal crest

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 7:44 PM

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It's hard to explain and I have to get ready for work soon.

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 7:44 PM

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Om I feel so young now

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@eternal crest sorry to keep pinging but word of advice don’t try and learn more than one Language at the same time and be consistent as well, Id you spend 2 hours everyday you’ll learn in legit a month

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In my 4 years of middle school I was able to learn 4 programming languages + HTML from spending 2 hours a day of just learning how to code

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 7:55 PM

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I was about to ask, how long should I practice. 2 hours, okay

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I grew up in an impoverished area and well, I didn't know about programming in school until now, my mid 20s. I feel the need to shame my school!

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My high school, I mean

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 8:13 PM

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HEY! What's the difference between RedHat and a WhiteHat?
They're both ethical hacking
So, aren't both whiteHates?

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*WhiteHats

fathom pecan May 8, 2020, 9:00 PM

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I've never heard of a 'redhat', but yeah the term 'whitehats' refer to ethical hackers

pulsar drum May 8, 2020, 9:12 PM

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RedHat is just a name of a company

eternal crest May 8, 2020, 9:15 PM

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Isn't redhat a term for military hacking?

rapid badge May 8, 2020, 9:18 PM

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Hello Everyone,
What are the must haves in python and along with it, in order for you to hire a person??

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 9:19 PM

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@rapid badge in what capacity are you asking

rapid badge May 8, 2020, 9:20 PM

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The first Dev job he could be getting, like any dev job?

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@vapid jay

fathom pecan May 8, 2020, 9:21 PM

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I guess it'd depend on what type of role
Like if it were something in web development I guess knowing or having familiarity & projects with the popular frameworks e.g. Django, Flask etc. would make you attractive to employers

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But also having problem solving skills, familiarity with algorithms & data structures is necessary since employers also want to see that (and is a generally useful tool)

vapid jay May 8, 2020, 9:24 PM

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@rapid badge I mean are you asking from the perspective of the developer

rapid badge May 8, 2020, 9:28 PM

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@fathom pecan @vapid jay
I have completed py till oops- i dont have a cs background, worked with a BPS form for a year and practiced full time py since jan 2020.
What would you recommend me to take the next step if i wanted to get a py job.
I am practing Django on the side as i thought it would be easy for me to get a web de py job first.
I am also doubtful whether i should learn web scraping as i hav seen some gigs on freelance....

fathom pecan May 8, 2020, 9:37 PM

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I'm pretty junior (and have gone back to school for masters), so I'm sure there's better advice out there. But definitely keep on practicing Python and Django, and pick up some HTML/CSS/JS on the way too so you can build projects to create some sort of portfolio. Additionally work on improving problem solving / algorithm skills by practicing on platforms such as Leetcode / HackerRank, many companies will have a preliminary coding test for applicants and whiteboard questions so its better to be prepared for them so you can confidently answer. It's a lot I know but you'll get there

rapid badge May 8, 2020, 10:23 PM

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@fathom pecanThank You👍 😋

oblique obsidian May 8, 2020, 11:01 PM

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@rapid badge I just interviewed a ton of Python devs and the most important was their ability to reason through problems. They had to know enough Python/Software Engineering and be able to answer some questions about it, they had to be able to write some code, and they had to be able to reason through things and explain their reasoning.

What separated the people who got offers from the people who didn’t was the reasoning and the ability to communicate it well.

rapid badge May 8, 2020, 11:05 PM

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@rapid badge I just interviewed a ton of Python devs and the most important was their ability to reason through problems. They had to know enough Python/Software Engineering and be able to answer some questions about it, they had to be able to write some code, and they had to be able to reason through things and explain their reasoning.

What separated the people who got offers from the people who didn’t was the reasoning and the ability to communicate it well.
@oblique obsidian Thanks
So how can i strengthen my reasoning ability??
By practicing more py + DS Algo + Interview Que Prep ,also as mentioned by @fathom pecan above??

jaunty pendant May 8, 2020, 11:58 PM

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@rapid badge I still consider myself a beginner, but what has really helped me develop my reasoning/communicating is reading my code out loud as if I were explaining it to someone.

"So this will... and then it's going to... and finally it will..."

#

Like I said, I'm still a beginner, but I've been able to help people effectively because when I talk to myself it helps train me in effective communication. To develop reasoning, I ask myself questions and then try to answer them.

"So why does it do that?... What would that do?..."

It might seem weird talking to yourself, but I've been doing it all my life and it has helped me in many areas.

noble crag May 9, 2020, 3:44 AM

#

what is python used for ? i heard it's mainly for web development what else ?

gritty heron May 9, 2020, 3:56 AM

#

its used in engineering, data science

#

a lot of things

noble crag May 9, 2020, 4:06 AM

#

can i make mobile app with python ?

solar arrow May 9, 2020, 4:34 AM

#

no?

#

also you're probably asking in the wrong channel @noble crag try #python-discussion 🙂

noble crag May 9, 2020, 4:35 AM

#

oh i see thanks

open patio May 9, 2020, 4:44 AM

#

you can make mobile apps with python actually

#

have a look at kivy

rigid vector May 9, 2020, 12:02 PM

#

📎 Screenshot_2020-05-09-20-01-52-49_86f9eec04f2b1b2e26a36d3917bf165f.png

#

What do you guys think about this job advertisement ? It it programmed

#

*IT programmer

indigo sleet May 9, 2020, 12:08 PM

#

That looks like 5 or 6 separate jobs in one

rigid vector May 9, 2020, 12:18 PM

#

That's what I thought

#

Just found this in indeed

#

Networking is one thing , web programming, and application programming sounds to broad for me

unkempt cloud May 9, 2020, 12:34 PM

#

@jaunty pendant What you are talking about is Rubber Duck Debugging, Software Walkthrough, Code Review... It's a well known technique.

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging#See_also There are a bunch of different names for the technique mentioned right here.

zenith inlet May 9, 2020, 2:33 PM

#

📎 Screen_Shot_2020-05-09_at_10.33.32_AM.png

#

Linus Operating System
technically correct, but wow

#

this listing is a mess

📎 Screen_Shot_2020-05-09_at_10.34.23_AM.png

jaunty pendant May 9, 2020, 3:27 PM

#

@unkempt cloud Thanks, now I can put a name to my madness. Telling people I talk to myself usually gets me weird looks.

I actually own a few rubber duckies that I use as decoration in my car and on my motorcycle. Gonna move one next to my computer 🤘

rapid badge May 9, 2020, 5:45 PM

#

@jaunty pendantthanks
I usually question in my head and google?
Gr8 advice😋

zenith inlet May 9, 2020, 6:13 PM

#

is web developing good field for free lancing ?
@noble crag not as much as it used to be

solar arrow May 9, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

id think people would probably prefer a company especially considering how often websites will need to be changed / updated

noble crag May 9, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

ops sorry typed it twice by mistake

#

@zenith inlet so what is good for free lancing these days ?

shadow moss May 9, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

running your own company/building unique software

sleek coyote May 9, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

Does anyone have interest in market trading algorithms?

solar arrow May 9, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

probably investment bankers?

sleek coyote May 9, 2020, 7:22 PM

#

Yes, I was wondering if someone was interested in developing an algorithm.

shadow moss May 9, 2020, 7:26 PM

#

people probably do

#

I experimented with it

#

whatever algorithm you develop has to do better then S&P 500

eternal crest May 9, 2020, 8:22 PM

#

Anyone who knows anything "C" related is of the gods!

vapid jay May 9, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

int main(void)

#

my_emptyness_strikes_you();

fathom pecan May 9, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

error: expected initializer before ‘my_emptyness_strikes_you’

#

😁

vapid jay May 9, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

maybe the right include magic can fix, not sure to be honest

#

wait, i made that up and forgot about it, haha

bitter slate May 9, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

What should i learn to start at freelancing? If there is any freelancer, can you say something how your work looks like?

#

i was loooking at some offers but i still think that i wont make it

rotund edge May 9, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

Hello! Im new to this channel and was wondering if anyone could help me with some career advice? Specifically helping understand the different career fields available in the programming and computer engineering field if anyone knows. Or, if you have any good links or videos that elaborate this.

solar arrow May 9, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

Oh boy

fathom pecan May 9, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

@rotund edge This is a pretty nice rundown: https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/36kbe3/what_are_the_main_different_type_of_programming/

r/cscareerquestions - What are the main different type of programmi...

187 votes and 99 comments so far on Reddit

rotund edge May 9, 2020, 11:47 PM

#

Thanks so much!!

sweet ermine May 10, 2020, 12:46 AM

#

i've been a software engineer for a couple years at a company that constantly has us under stressful deadlines...does anyone have advice for landing a job in a programming industry where it feels a bit more relaxed and you don't constantly have a stress-knot in your stomach?

solar arrow May 10, 2020, 2:39 AM

#

reach out in your area and look for other jobs?

#

you can always look for jobs while you're still employed

acoustic marsh May 10, 2020, 2:44 AM

#

Is there anyone here who is an SDET? (Software Developer in Test)

Are you happy in your position or do you wish that you would have pursued something else?

I am currently a manual tester, but I have taught myself a whole lot of Python and thought becoming a technical tester would be my next step.

I really like the idea of spending my time fixing, breaking, and beautifying/organizing code. I also admire 'database wizards' who can write really really efficient queries.

radiant moon May 10, 2020, 2:53 AM

#

@acoustic marsh I used to be, and I liked it ... but I always felt like a second-class citizen. SDEs were first class.

acoustic marsh May 10, 2020, 2:55 AM

#

Google Fu failed on SDE...Is that a Software Database Engineer? Or something else?

#

Oh, Software Development Engineer..I think!

#

What do you do now @radiant moon ?

radiant moon May 10, 2020, 2:58 AM

#

SDE

mint citrus May 10, 2020, 5:38 AM

#

so I have an interview with a company and they want 2-3 days where they could call me

#

issue is its at the times im working so I could at most schedule 1 date with them and take off on that day

#

how should I handle this?

#

interview over bluejeans btw. so i dont go to their office yet

solar arrow May 10, 2020, 5:40 AM

#

communicate the hours? to them?

ancient sluice May 10, 2020, 5:40 AM

#

That means they want 2-3 days as options. They should schedule an exact time for one of those days and you can plan to take that time off.

mint citrus May 10, 2020, 5:41 AM

#

hopefully thats what they have in mind

#

i just hope I can take off that day they ask for.

#

I need approval from my boss

#

without letting her know i am looking for new work

#

sick days dont work cause I need to bring a doctors note

#

I need to think up a reason for wanting to leave where im working as well. they ask that here. Cultural thing i think

pastel tartan May 10, 2020, 8:13 AM

#

Guys

#

I just started as a backend developer

#

And I don't have much skills

#

In python

#

I am also working on image processing

#

I aslo want to learn kubernetes and docker for microservices

#

What's the best way to grow

#

And be the best

#

Is touch typing a significant skill for being a good developer

#

??

white karma May 10, 2020, 8:42 AM

#

It would definitely help

opal grotto May 10, 2020, 10:33 AM

#

Does anyone here have experience starting a software business

vapid jay May 10, 2020, 10:35 AM

#

Bill Gates has

opal grotto May 10, 2020, 10:36 AM

#

Is he here 😄

vapid jay May 10, 2020, 10:36 AM

#

no idea 🙂

small marsh May 10, 2020, 10:37 AM

#

i don't think anybody has

stray mica May 10, 2020, 10:42 AM

#

Those people don't have time to spent on discord...

vivid horizon May 10, 2020, 10:51 AM

#

Perfect explaination

neon moat May 10, 2020, 12:45 PM

#

@mint citrus have you asked if they can do an out of working hours interview?

tender shale May 10, 2020, 2:40 PM

#

can anybody mentor me with python just starting to code im 15 and i can give time daily as long as you are able to mentor and guide me

solar arrow May 10, 2020, 3:02 PM

#

think you’re asking in the wrong place 🙂

jolly shale May 10, 2020, 3:31 PM

#

I just wanted to ask ive been learning flask, django and a bit of other api on the side i like web i wish to be a back end web dev one day, if theres anyone who currently is what i aspire to be what all should i focus on lemon_thinking

signal wadi May 10, 2020, 4:55 PM

#

Does anyone have interest in market trading algorithms?
@sleek coyote 100%

left badger May 10, 2020, 9:20 PM

#

@jolly shale just make random shit that interests you. As you go you'll learn new things and you can incorporate them into subsequent projects

hard stirrup May 10, 2020, 11:59 PM

#

@pastel tartan I suggest mavis beacon if you're looking to improve, or possibly word munchers / the typing of the dead

mint citrus May 11, 2020, 12:59 AM

#

@neon moat I guess I could ask for that

#

would have to be on the weekend tho

#

im not home until like 18:30

jolly shale May 11, 2020, 4:51 AM

#

@left badger thanks bruv

silk osprey May 11, 2020, 2:07 PM

#

Hello

subtle egret May 11, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

Hello, I'm Taha from Turkey. I'm newbie programming.

vapid jay May 11, 2020, 10:31 PM

#

Cool

wanton holly May 11, 2020, 10:57 PM

#

hello taha!

subtle egret May 11, 2020, 11:54 PM

#

hello @wanton holly and @vapid jay

vapid jay May 11, 2020, 11:55 PM

#

What time is it there?

#

Hello @subtle egret

subtle egret May 11, 2020, 11:56 PM

#

02.56 here

vapid jay May 12, 2020, 2:20 AM

#

penetration tester

mint citrus May 12, 2020, 5:23 AM

#

kinky

craggy wave May 12, 2020, 9:14 AM

#

I'm going to assume that contextless message from @vapid jay is referring to the profession and not trying to make a sexualized joke. The latter would be against our code of conduct.

fringe plume May 12, 2020, 11:04 AM

#

it's difficult though, either you say pen tester in which case your friends think you're testing pencils on an assembly line... or that other one... xD

vapid jay May 12, 2020, 11:38 AM

#

To be honest, I never once considered that there is innuendo in that profession title. I don't know if that means I'm getting old or boring. Probably both.

abstract spindle May 12, 2020, 3:03 PM

#

I do not ever think of there being an innuendo when u say pen tester but when people say penetration tester it briefly crosses my mind

fringe plume May 12, 2020, 3:29 PM

#

pen tester does sound silly though if you don't know what it is 😄

#

if you're cool enough you call yourself white hat h4ck3r

abstract spindle May 12, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

ur not a hacker unless u have the anonymous mask as ur profile picture

zenith inlet May 12, 2020, 6:58 PM

#

yert

proven cape May 12, 2020, 7:46 PM

#

I'd rather call it Network Security Engineer. It has a more professional connotation, and implies that you "build" security, rather than just trying to circumvent security.

#

pen tester is more internet slang than anything else, IMHO

near schooner May 12, 2020, 8:09 PM

#

Hmm, I think a lot of people call it red teaming, network security engineer implies blue teaming. Penetration tester is a commonly used title.

gilded valley May 12, 2020, 8:34 PM

#

Network Security Engineer.
Doesn't even come close to covering the same bounds as the word penetration tester. XSS for example has practically nil to do with networks

abstract spindle May 13, 2020, 1:13 AM

#

The word "engineer" in your job title is fancy so i'd probably say network security engineer

mint citrus May 13, 2020, 1:26 AM

#

job titles dont mean anything anyways

hard pond May 13, 2020, 4:26 AM

#

Hi! Anyone here from a non-CS background that's successfully transitioned into a programming career? I've just started learning python, so looking for insight! Thanks!

rustic charm May 13, 2020, 5:04 AM

#

I started in Mathematics, transferred to physics, then to pre-med.
dropped out of college and taught myself python and i've been doing contract work/commissions for about 5 years now.
actually, thinking about going back to medical school just because its always been something I thought I could do.

did you have a question in particular? @hard pond

hard pond May 13, 2020, 6:03 AM

#

@rustic charm That's such a coincidence that you say that, I actually left medical school two years ago and now considering a career as a software engineer because I enjoy coding so far. I'm just wondering if its difficult to break into the industry

worldly gorge May 13, 2020, 12:30 PM

#

I'm working for a small company, in my first job, with no other Python developers to talk to or even review what coded. My boss offered me to pay for a mentor. Can you make any recommendations where to look for and what you should keep in mind?

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:00 PM

#

Can anyone suggest me a good place to create a resume

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:02 PM

#

Microsoft Word

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:03 PM

#

Online Templates

#

which are kinda well accepted @gilded valley

#

Building from Scratch there are lot of formatting issues and it's not elegant and all

indigo sleet May 13, 2020, 4:04 PM

#

Online templates can be a bad idea

#

You want something that stands out a bit

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:04 PM

#

you can check overleaf templates

#

there are some nice once and you can modify them

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:04 PM

#

It's pretty easy to format it yourself

#

You need bullet points and headers and thats pretty much it

#

Forcing your stuff into a template is often a lot harder than just doing it from scratch to match your needs

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:05 PM

#

if you are in france you'd want also some neat icons or other stylish shit, not just bulllets 😂

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:05 PM

#

France has a header photo as well right?

#

I guess I'm mostly speaking from a UK perspective - although I think it holds true in the US as well

wind hinge May 13, 2020, 4:06 PM

#

Idk why is that necessary tho

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:06 PM

#

I'm applying in Sweden

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:06 PM

#

Same reason as the rest of the CV is seen as necessary - another barrier to ensure a basic level of competence

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:06 PM

#

Yeah the look matters a lot

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

What matters is maximising the use of your space

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

@indigo sleet How do I stand out?

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

you want to keep it as tight as possible

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

@gilded valley Building it from scratch I don't wanna miss out on some stuff they expect

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

For design positions, have a flashy CV is more important. For Software positions, you want to stand out in the content

indigo sleet May 13, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

By not making it look like everyone else's

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:07 PM

#

LOL! WOW @indigo sleet

indigo sleet May 13, 2020, 4:08 PM

#

I mean what did you expect

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:08 PM

#

And if still at 1-3 Years experience resume would be better than CV right?

indigo sleet May 13, 2020, 4:08 PM

#

That depends on where you are

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:08 PM

#

The key thing is making it look like you have put in more than the bare minimum of effort. You don't want it to look like you used a rubbish Word template, or that you used the most basic online template

indigo sleet May 13, 2020, 4:08 PM

#

You'd never see a resume in the UK for example

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:08 PM

#

Resume is a US term really

#

at least thats what I've seen

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:09 PM

#

How's the careers section in US

#

Considering this pandemic

#

Remote Hiring is still a thing?

#

or are we moving towards recession

#

and leaving a job would be bad idea

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:09 PM

#

France has a header photo as well right?
@gilded valley yes, without photo chances are your CV goes to trash immediately

#

at least for positions where there are plenty of appilcants (aka entry evel)

dawn willow May 13, 2020, 4:10 PM

#

Guys im a kid but how much do you think a programming job will pay in a few years

#

I can barely code and was just wondering if i should actually learn

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:10 PM

#

Yeah - so France is very different to what I've heard. Including a photo makes the design aspect much harder, so a template is probably more usefull

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:12 PM

#

idk about sweeden. So with CV/resume you really need to tailor it to your local culture, design-wise

#

@gaunt kernel this

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

Sweden does seem to have concepts of both Resumes and of CVs

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

also yeah leaving a job now without a next offer I guess is not a good idea

vast shoal May 13, 2020, 4:13 PM

#

@dawn willow It will likely pay well. It pays very well now, and I'd say demand will probably continue to grow in the near future.

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:14 PM

#

France has a header photo as well right?
I guess I'm mostly speaking from a UK perspective - although I think it holds true in the US as well
you definitely can't include one in the US, it's illegal (or bordering on it) for the employer to ask that

vast shoal May 13, 2020, 4:14 PM

#

@gilded valley Really? I've only ever heard of CVs here.

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:14 PM

#

Yea, US does not do photos in Resumes at all, unless acting, modeling or similar

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:14 PM

#

Hm - a google search seems to show different results for resume vs different results for CV - might just be google being a bit rubbish

#

Either way, I don't know enough about Sweden to be able to talk about Swedish CV stuff really

indigo sleet May 13, 2020, 4:15 PM

#

I mean they're not the same thing

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:15 PM

#

Yes - but in the UK you're never asked for a resume, and in the US a Resume is the same as our CV and a CV is a longer document (our=UK)

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:15 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:15 PM

#

here we call everything CV

#

wrjh I guess senior starts with at least 5 years

#

or more

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

yea, in US, only place CV in proper form is academia

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

In the UK a CV is a relatively concise summary of your education and experience

#

You don't necessarily include everything

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

in US, we have resumes and you have 2 pages max before I shred it

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

and you keep it to 1 page if you're junior

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:16 PM

#

yeah if I got a multi-page resume (even for a senior candidate) I wouldn't read it

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:17 PM

#

and you got first page to make care enough to go to second

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:17 PM

#

By not making it look like everyone else's
@indigo sleet Something which you would have seen and that stand out to you

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:18 PM

#

lol I remember one job fair aimed at PhDs.... it was funny watching indusrty people wide eyes from 5+ pages CVs

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:18 PM

#

speaking as American who reviews resume, please don't get fancy with your resume, I don't have time for that, template is fine, grammar/spelling/job experience is what I really care about

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:18 PM

#

a resume should make me want to go to the next step by having me read "I'm experienced in what I would be doing or could learn it quickly based on these experiences"

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:18 PM

#

Aah! Thank You @shadow moss

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:18 PM

#

anything more than that, I want to have a conversation, not read a paper

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:18 PM

#

maybe rdbaker would agree with me

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:18 PM

#

I would

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:19 PM

#

A template might be fine - but IMO its much easier to do things manually. You can make sure you're using the space as appropriately as possible for your specific experience

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:19 PM

#

a very basic template is what I'm saying

#

Name/Contact information/Skills/Job History/Education

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:19 PM

#

Do you really need address?

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:19 PM

#

In US, it's normal

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:20 PM

#

it's normal, but you're right- mostly not needed

opal perch May 13, 2020, 4:20 PM

#

address can get past some of the automated checkers, because they check for address sometimes to see if you're legit

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:20 PM

#

I'll look in that section for contact info & websites (linkedin, github, etc.)

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:20 PM

#

Yea, I put in Address into Google Maps to make sure it's legit

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:21 PM

#

Address takes up so much space for so little info - but I guess it might be worth it in some cases

#

(I'm speaking as a scrub, not someone reviewing CVs)

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:21 PM

#

Address solves a mostly uniquely US problem, I cannot hire anyone who doesn't already have valid work permit

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:22 PM

#

Yea, I put in Address into Google Maps to make sure it's legit
huh that's interesting. I wonder how many people check it and how often they ain't legit

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:22 PM

#

My house does not look good on Google maps

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:22 PM

#

so if your address shows up as PO Box company or Business, I start to wonder

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:22 PM

#

Address solves a mostly uniquely US problem, I cannot hire anyone who doesn't already have valid work permit
That even sounds like it would introduce potential class bias problems here in the UK

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:22 PM

#

can't say I've ever looked up a candidates address

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:23 PM

#

rdbaker, we get alot of "I actually don't have valid work authorization, I need H-1B"

#

or something

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:23 PM

#

ah, I usually clarify that we can't sponsor before accepting a resume

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:24 PM

#

so do we, so many people are like "Well maybe if they like me, they will reconsider that position"

#

NOPE

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:24 PM

#

@stable cipher Just curious - what sort of positions do you look at CVs for?

#

and in what sort of company?

#

(I'd ask Rabbit, but I'm pretty sure I remember his answer from the past)

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:24 PM

#

right now I do all positions for the company I'm working for, in my last job it was all software engineers & above (managers, TLs, directors)

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

Charlie, there is no class bias problems, I just need work authorization, that could be Green Card, Citizenship, NAFTA work visa

#

H-1B that is already valid

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

@stable cipher What are some good tips or green lights that should definitely be followed according to your experience

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:25 PM

#

Yeah - my point is more that if companies were routinely looking up everyone on Google maps - it would probably lead to some individuals weighting the kind of location a candidate comes from too heavily

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

in making a resume?

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

stuff like the H1-B and whatever seems like a valid reason to do it

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

Yes

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

so do we, so many people are like "Well maybe if they like me, they will reconsider that position"
well it is for a reason. For what I know there are cases when compnay/HR would rather not bother with permit/H-1B but if person pass the interviews they would still do it.

#

Here I got this also from some people who do career consulting

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

Charlie, we just look at Google Satellite to see if it's residential

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

EG.
Like Instead of saying I improved a lot
You should say you improved the efficiency by 40%

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:26 PM

#

and BTW, that's at end

#

and not always

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

Getting a visa to work in the US seems like such a massive PITA

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

being concise & tailored helps, if you only have 1 page, update the resume to reflect the position you're applying for, e.g. I'd change my resume if I was applying to be TL at a startup vs engineer at Google

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

I'm curious what its like for Canada

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

Well, at my work we have one Canadian

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

I more meant going from UK --> Canada

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:27 PM

#

so.... I guess there is vacancy in Canada 😉

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

AFAIK canada is less of a PITA. I know a guy who migrated to Canada from Ukraine

#

with the entire family

#

quite easily to work

#

no relatives etc

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

Lossberg, despite all BS in Media, demand of work visas FAR FAR outstrips supplies

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

being concise & tailored helps, if you only have 1 page, update the resume to reflect the position you're applying for, e.g. I'd change my resume if I was applying to be TL at a startup vs engineer at Google
@stable cipher Alright! Change as in seeing the JD and changing the work done based on that?

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

yeah I remember that

#

about US

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:29 PM

#

and even getting H-1B for worker isn't guaranteed due to lottery and like

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:29 PM

#

exactly, tailoring content to show success at the level of the job description goes a long way

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:29 PM

#

It doesn't seem worth even trying to move to the US without a few years experience

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:30 PM

#

It's not experience from what I understand, it's your competing globally

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:31 PM

#

Do you have a rough idea of how to make yourself globally competitive?

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:31 PM

#

you have people with Masters/Doctors who are willing to work less then LPR/Citizen just for chance to come to America

#

Charlie, speaking from American perspective, be cheap

white karma May 13, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

Being globally competitive seems a bit daunting

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

Hm - seems very unlikely that its worth ever trying to get anywhere in the US coming from the UK. The only success stories I've heard were lateral moves within a company

tulip dust May 13, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

Is it worth it to become a game developer even though I did hear many times that its risky af because they don't make alot of money and etc. Even though I do have passion for creating games Im just not sure why people consider it risky?

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

(and they were/are very rare afaik)

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

DjDude02, no

#

Problem with anything in game industry is so many people are passionite about it, they will take bad work conditions with terrible pay

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

I had a director at one of my old jobs who moved to the US from the UK and did a good job of it

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:33 PM

#

It's considered risky to do game dev because the industry is renowned for treating devs poorly

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

@tulip dust my opinion on that is it's 50/50
people may like your game. people may not care about your game and your efforts will go to waste.

tulip dust May 13, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

Well that sucks

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

Indie game dev is little different just because you are working for yourself

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

if you're planning on working in a big studio, then yeah, overworking is common

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

The vast majority of indie games sell pitiful amounts and you don't even hear about them

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

yeah

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

Are you talking Indie dev or big studio dev?

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

i'm still sad that caves of qud is so underrated :(

tulip dust May 13, 2020, 4:34 PM

#

Im guessing big studio dev

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

Indie dev seems like a very poor career choice if you care about money at all

tulip dust May 13, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

I prefer not indie dev

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

big studio requires a lot of experience and a wide skill set. and you'll probably have to overwork and stuff.

white karma May 13, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

The vast majority of indie devs try to copy what worked instead of taking what worked and making it better

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

big studio is notorious for overwork and underpaid

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

the salaries are pretty good though

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

not all, but many

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

the salaries are pretty good though
They can be good, but often aren't

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:36 PM

#

there was some article on rockstar games. they do amazing stuff, but that's created literally on people's tears, blood and sweat

#

overworking, changing decisions last moment, etc etc.

white karma May 13, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

I can’t think of one major game company that isn’t working people to an early grave

#

Maybe Valve

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

so... yeah. if you like it, you may practice gamedev as a hobby, and maybe one day your creation will become second Undertale. or you may gain nothing but psychotic breaks. depends

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

Is Valve a gaming company? thinkmon

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

big studios is probably a poor choice...

white karma May 13, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

Technically yes

#

Or they “were” depending on your view of them

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

I'd say Valve is unique

white karma May 13, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

Very.

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

and of course, my take on Game Dev is big picture for most

tulip dust May 13, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

Well atleast game dev can be my hobby

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

Valve have an entirely flat structure iirc

#

people can just move teams whenever they like

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

I'm sure there are studios that are not like that

#

but OVERALL, it's overworked and underpaid

white karma May 13, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

Absolutely

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

Valve is like the Google of game dev - but probably much more exclusive than even Google

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

Google is not that exclusive

#

it's, like, holy grail of IT, but it's not like that at all

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

yea, Google is huge

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:39 PM

#

we're getting pretty OT tho

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

it's, like, holy grail of IT, but it's not like that at all
🤔

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

and they need a ton of average coders still because most of their work is normal, "Fix this service", "Touch up that UI"

tulip dust May 13, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

And isn't a software Engineer mostly just debugging than codeing?

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

and they need a ton of average coders still because most of their work is normal, "Fix this service", "Touch up that UI"
A lot of that work is done by contractors. Google is renowned for abusing contractors

#

at least thats my understanding

white karma May 13, 2020, 4:41 PM

#

I have my gripes about the big tech companies but man, that pedigree looks good on anyone’s CV/resume as far as I’m concerned.

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:41 PM

#

sure, but company with 100k employees has some people just doing normal "enterprisy" work

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

Yeah, of course, but they're still going to be above averagely well paid - and having it on the CV is going to get them an interview pretty much anywhere they like in the world

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

software engineer is mostly just developing.

#

i'd advice web development, probably hugest and easiest to start with out of all IT spheres

white karma May 13, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

^

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

and if you want to see US game development at big studios, as contraversal as he is, go to youtube and search "Joshua Fluke Game Dev", he's mostly right

#

don

#

don't watch the rest, it will make you salty

tulip dust May 13, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

Well Im not really sure where to head towards now

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

just try out everything and see what you like the most

#

then, when you find it, keep doing it

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:43 PM

#

People talking about their career on youtube are kind of incentivised to push more extreme aspects of that career

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

:p

tulip dust May 13, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

Either Software Engineer or Software Developer that im thinking rn

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

ngl, Python doesn't suit Software Engineer much. you'd be better off learning Java

#

that's what currently rules software engineer positions

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

ngl, Python doesn't suit Software Engineer much. you'd be better off learning Java
That's not necessarily true at all

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

Charlie, he isn't a game dev, he just mocks some of US Corporate lifestyle which can be cringy

#

but it's about Blizzard axing 800 people

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

have you seen much corporate software written in python @gilded valley ?

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:44 PM

#

Is he talking about it from a personal angle

#

@main hound yes

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

:/

#

wonder where you could see it.

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

He's salty from being developer in US Corporate

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

especially considering how easy Python is to disassemble

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

Either Software Engineer or Software Developer
I bleieve often they mean same thing

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

https://realpython.com/world-class-companies-using-python/

8 World-Class Software Companies That Use Python – Real Python

A review of eight top-tier companies that use Python in production, and why. Learn about their struggles and successes, and see the career opportunities for Python developers today.

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:45 PM

#

source leaking means almost death to software

#

yeah, using python.

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

most major companies use Python

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

most of them use it actually in webdev, scripts, or something like that

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

web dev is software dev

white karma May 13, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

Which is nice to know

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

but do they use exclusively, likely not

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

huh? i thought webdev and softdev are two different spheres

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

Not really, no

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:46 PM

#

in fact, for web dev, it's moved away from python for many because of speed reasons

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

not really, Instagram used Django for really really long time

#

and Pinterest which is a huge service too used Flask

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

it's moved away from python

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:47 PM

#

used being key

#

and a ton of corporate software YOU may not use is written in Java/C#/Go/Rust

#

like we write APIs that may directly affect you if you live in US, you never interact with them (except one) they are all C#

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:49 PM

#

or nodejs, too...

#

i mean, VScode and even discord being electron apps?

#

:p

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:49 PM

#

with so much being web, who knows what that API you interact with is written in unless it reveals itself in headers or extension

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:50 PM

#

i'm pretty sure python is used as server-side language in a lot of companies besides instagram and pinterest

#

in Google it's used for some webapps too afaik

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:50 PM

#

Discord went hard Rust

#

it's all over their blogs

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:50 PM

#

Discord is using Elixir, Golang and Rust

#

Pretty sure Elixir is powering most things, with Rust doing heavy lifting

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:50 PM

#

sorry, i messed things up a bit

#

:p

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:50 PM

#

but they have a bunch of blogs

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:51 PM

#

yeah, rust... well...

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:51 PM

#

I'm sure Discord uses python as well to glue some stuff together

#

python is very common for that

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:51 PM

#

Netflix had been known recently to start using FASTApi

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:51 PM

#

I use FASTAPI, it powers Google Chat Bot I'm developing for work

main hound May 13, 2020, 4:51 PM

#

rust is dem confusing

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:52 PM

#

Discord is using Elixir, Golang and Rust
@gilded valley Their blogs are pretty good on medium

#

https://engineering.fb.com/web/facebook-redesign/

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:52 PM

#

containers are helping python with some of speed issues

#

since you throw out a bunch of instances

gilded valley May 13, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

Surely Python is still super expensive to deploy vs other langs? - I'd have thought that was enough of an extent that it doesn't make even the faster dev speed worth it

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

as long as individual request is fast, Load balancer can handle distributing the load

gaunt kernel May 13, 2020, 4:54 PM

#

Kubernetes also does pretty good

#

in these cases

shadow moss May 13, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

I wish PyPy would get more love or even be considered a replacement for CPython

neon moat May 13, 2020, 5:32 PM

#

Languages are just a tool to do a job, as much as I really enjoy python other languages still entrigue me

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

have any of you used any udemy courses for coding interview prep? I have Cracking the Coding Interview but wasn't sure if that and leetcode/hackerrank would be a good approach

#

I work full time and have a job, but I want better prep for the future because I got this job by the skin of my teeth :p

#

Also, I know the conversations old at this point but the most common use case I see for Python right now is infrastructure stuff. We use it as a "nicer than bash" scripting language on my team, we use it for lambda functions that that will automate tasks in our deployments, etc etc

#

But like, the dev teams do not program in Python. Their web-apps are written with some JS frontend (depending on the team) and then Java on the backend

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

python as a glue is also how i see it on the enterprise side

#

you dont particularly want to use it for enterprise applications

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

I've used python for enterprise applications

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

Eh, idk about all that, Python can be fast enough for enterprise apps. I think Java is just such a strong foothold still

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

you CAN

#

but your missing out on the type safety of other langs

#

which becomes a problem on a large scale

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

I was gonna make a silicon valley joke about startups not caring about that they just want it done

#

:p

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

well they care when a random type error takes down prod 😁

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

I actually had a company hit me up on linkedin and the very first thing in their company description was "We want a hacker. Done is better than perfect"

#

or sumn like that

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

yikes

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

and I was like "lol this sounds like a mess"

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

even a statically typed language will throw a runtimeexception if bad json data comes in

#

java won't stop that

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

As someone who does infrastructure engineering, I do not want hacked together

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

i mean ya but thats not really relevant lol

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

I want to know this is going to deploy right lmao

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

enterprise level I think web dev and data stuff is where python used the most

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

lol that's exactly relevant when you're dealing with javascript

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

i mean JS suffers from the same issue python does

#

i was referring to enterprise langs like java or c#

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

Ehhh, JS has typescript which is becoming popular

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

yee

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

which still has the same problem

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

TS is a marked improvement

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

runtimeexceptions on bad json data

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

Typescript is strongly typed is it not?

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:12 PM

#

runtimeexceptions on bad json data
i dont see how this is relevant whatsoever

#

we are talking about type errors due to the compiler not checking you

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:13 PM

#

if javascript or typescript requests data from the API and the data is in a different format than expected it throws an error

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:13 PM

#

ok?

#

so will c# or java

#

thats not really relevant

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:13 PM

#

oh, I thought you were generally talking about not using python for enterprise apps

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:13 PM

#

i mean ya but not cuz of bad json

#

cuz of the compiler not validating type safety

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

well that's why you should test your apps thoroughly

#

that's the same for every language

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

That is true, but the argument Jayy is making is "if you can have something that's strongly typed that won't let you make the mistake in the first place"

#

which is totally relevant

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

100% coverage is always feasible

#

and on a monolithic scale the static typing is invaluable

#

esp for things like autocomplete etc

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

totally fair

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

This is why I wanna move over to a app team for a while from infrastructure, never had to deal with those issues

#

I deal with scalability and such right now on infrastructure side

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

python CAN be used for enterprise dev but its not necessarily the best tool for the job

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

don't know much about what makes the applications go brrr though

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

anyway, python is quite dominating on any data/ML stuff and seems to be very present for Web. there is more than one person who uses python as main language on the job

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

places I've worked for optimized for development speed over language features

#

whether it was java or python

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

^

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

yee, but on a large scale you are slowed down by python

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

that was the joke I was gonna make basically

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

cuz you have to check all the methods you are calling

#

for their conventions

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

I work in SF right now and see that all the time, companies care way more about getting something in front of people

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

or rely on hints if you have the set up

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

rather than having something that's scalable

#

and actually, this is a common practice now in the SRE dominated infrastructure world. You should not design for scalability unless you have to

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:17 PM

#

whereas with say java the compiler will expose the correct calling conventions via autofill

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:17 PM

#

why worry about 1,000,000 users when you don't even have 5

#

And as you gain users if you need to refactor do so

#

but anyway, still don't see Python used much. I see Flask and Django occasionally and everyone accepts "python development experience" on the resume. But most companies are using Node it seems right now or Java/C#

#

I see Node being used a lot more but afaik that's mostly so you can have the same language on the front and backend

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:19 PM

#

youd be hardish pressed to find a stack that is primarily python for apps

#

java/c# and node dominate

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 11:19 PM

#

for what it's worth, people here often mention that every region/city tend to favor certain languages for backend web for instance in their communities

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

There's rumblings about Go still, but I have yet to see it on any company I look at

#

and I'm literally next to Google

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

so what you say here I see Flask and Django occasionally and everyone accepts "python development experience" on the resume. But most companies are using Node it seems right now or Java/C# might not necessarily apply to every place

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

Yeah absolutely, I'm Bay Area so what's happening on London is not going to be the same as the Bay

#

and honestly, even the West Coast get's whacky. You go down to San Jose where it's Ebay, PayPal, Atlassian, Nvidia, AMD, Intel, etc and it's a lot different than being in SF or Oakland

#

and if you go to Seattle it's dominated by Amazon, Boeing, and Microsoft

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

everywhere I see is python and if it's not that it's java or c# (speaking from new england)

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

Ooo, how's New England's tech scene?

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

but we're a biomed, AI and edtech scene

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

I was in philly for a year and it was alright, but not quite what I was looking for

#

that makes sense, lots of ivy leagues and such up there

stable cipher May 13, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

I'm in the boston area and places are actively hiring

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

also, afaik Dropbox is Python?

#

which is not a small thing 🙂

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

there are def something in python

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:23 PM

#

Again, tbf Google, Amazon, Apple, and Microsoft all support Python as "primary" languages

#

so I mean, it is certainly used a lot of places. But what being a "primary" language is depends

#

Dropbox is heavily infrastructure reliant being that it's a big file system, so I'd assume Python makes sense. If you're hiring a lot of infrastructure engineers Python is going to be commonly known

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 11:24 PM

#

I mean, dropbox even hired Guido

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

Yknow what lang I don't see a lot anymore, C++

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

wonder what that salary was like

#

c++ is still huge

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:25 PM

#

I haven't seen it on any job descriptions in a while

#

I like C++ a lot, used it in college some

#

never got to use it professionally but it is a great language

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

its interesting for sure

#

i dont have a ton of experience

#

some uni stuff and a bit of professional but not a lot at all

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:27 PM

#

I see a bit of it in Go for sure with the way slices work

#

iirc python and cpp were inspirations for Go so it'd make sense

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:28 PM

#

ive never written go so idk

#

i see some kotlin

marsh wind May 13, 2020, 11:28 PM

#

That's because of android I guess?

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:30 PM

#

Oh yeah, Java and Kotlin all over if the company has apps

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:30 PM

#

or just cuz java sucks lol

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:30 PM

#

Java doesn't suuuuck. It's just very verbose :p

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:30 PM

#

why write java code when you can write kotlin code

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

~~cuz you're a masochist~~ haven't gotten to use it yet

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

im a c# dev professionally

#

i CAN write java its just painful

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:31 PM

#

My career is gonna look real weird before I'm 30. After another year of infrastructure engineering I wanna try and go full stack dev or mobile dev for a couple years

#

and then round it out with whichever i haven't done yet before I'm 30

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:32 PM

#

C

#

or be hip and go for rust

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:33 PM

#

I'd be perfectly fine with either if I get the chance (:

#

I know if I go mobile dev it'll probably be Kotlin, Java, or Swift or a combination of them

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:33 PM

#

i swift is nice

#

im writing a hobby app to help with my workouts

#

xcode is just garbage tho

#

its so bad

#

apples dev tooling is dog shit

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

xcode is the woooorst

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

and i come from VS

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

JetBrains has a swift ide though right?

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

which is probably the best ide on the market rn

#

they have appcode

#

but its not fully features and u still need xcode for alot of things

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:34 PM

#

dang

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

ya apples walled garden

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

My coworker lives in Vim and refuses to use VSCode

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

im not an apple hater persay, i have an iphone and im typing on a macbook

#

i used to be like that

#

introduce him to vscode vim

#

best of both worlds tbh

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

he's a good engineer so I'm not dogging him, but wow I can't imagine

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

all your vim binds with the niceness of vsc

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

I downloaded vsc vim

#

big fan

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:35 PM

#

its not quite as good as vsvim but its servicable

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

oh you used like, the actual VisualStudio?

#

the fully featured one built for C, C++ and C# that costs money

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

i use vsc for my hobbyist python dev

#

and i use vs for work oc

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

ohhh very nice

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

ya vs is amazing

#

microsoft has done a spectacular job on dev tooling

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

Yeah I used VS in my undergad and got to use the full suite cuz student licensing

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:37 PM

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its free now

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for everyone

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and c# is cross plat like java and 100% open source

#

the entire .net infrastructure is open source

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:37 PM

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So is VS specific to C#, C++, and C and then VSCode is the opensource anyone can develop

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:37 PM

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https://github.com/dotnet/runtime

GitHub

dotnet/runtime

.NET is a cross-platform runtime for cloud, mobile, desktop, and IoT apps. - dotnet/runtime

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you can do python in vs

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as well as js and ts

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:37 PM

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wut

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:37 PM

#

yee

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:38 PM

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I'm still on Code

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

id prob choose pycharm over it tho

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

should I be trying out VS lmao

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nah nah, pycharm is money

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

its amazing for c# and c++

#

i use vsc for python

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havent had any issues

#

you dont really need heavy ide features for python

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:38 PM

#

yeah that's true

#

my buddy's company is .net and he always talks about ASP frontend

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which I really have no clue about

#

so I just nod my head

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:39 PM

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yee asp is nice

#

c# has made leaps and bounds recently tbh

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:39 PM

#

can you use C# strictly on the backend and use like, react or vue on the frontend?

#

or if you're on the .net stack are you fully on it

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:40 PM

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no you can do c# back whatever front

#

thats pretty standard

#

front end c# is technically possible using blazor

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but its still in beta

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and not prod ready

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:40 PM

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yeah I saw blazor before

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:40 PM

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c# back JS/TS front is the standard

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you can do the whole project iwth vs tho

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that works fine

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:41 PM

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nice

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:41 PM

#

its a very nice ecosystem and its hard to use otehr langs cuz they are lacking

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@ swift -_-

#

also the ability to look at the source for .net is nice

#

https://referencesource.microsoft.com/

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:42 PM

#

MSFT is definitely on my application list

#

not really looking until next year at least, but I think Microsoft and Apple would both be 2 big ones I'd like to go for. I like their products and the software I use from both

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:43 PM

#

there are some ms devs in the c# server and they all enjoy microsoft

#

so make of that what you will

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

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Without doxxing myself, I used to work for a big aerospace company but decided I didn't like the defense world so I got out of it

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

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ive heard similar things

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

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3 months later Microsoft got that JEDI contract and acquired 3 of my former team members

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

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oof

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

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they didn't even do a technical interview cuz they all had security clearances

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

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damn well theres an in tbh

#

see if theyll recommend you

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

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They all said they would of course, we're all friends still

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

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theres a special portal for ms employees to recommend applications

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:44 PM

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I just really like my job right now haha

#

But next year for sure, I don't want to go onto the JEDI program though

#

I left the government stuff for a reason and really don't wanna go back onto gov side stuff

#

and apparently the JEDI portion of microsoft isn't handled the same as the rest because it's a federal program

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:45 PM

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i went back to school to finish my degree after working for a few years and i hope ot apply to other companies after i graduate in a few months

#

ms is on that list for sure

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:46 PM

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nice, hope you enjoyed college. I loved it

#

Massive USA government program

#

a bunch of people are on it but Microsoft is the primary cloud resource provider for it now

#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Enterprise_Defense_Infrastructure

Joint Enterprise Defense Infrastructure

The Joint Enterprise Defense Infrastructure (JEDI) contract is a large United States Department of Defense cloud computing contract which has been reported as being worth $10 billion.Companies interested in the contract included Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Oracle, IBM and REAN ...

#

so once Microsoft got that contract they had to hire resources for it and not everyone needs to have a security clearance, but a lot of people do

#

so if you have a security clearance and you want to work ~~in bureaucratic hell~~ on a federal program

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:48 PM

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ah, defense infrastructure.. guess its not for foreigners 😅
afraid not, im pretty sure there are laws against hiring non americans for this

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:49 PM

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You have to have a US Citizenship yeah, but it's also not a job for everyone. Imagine a job where you have a security team who takes security really seriously and wants spreadsheets and documents about every single tool you use, every single system package, etc etc

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:49 PM

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same reason all military stuff has to be sourced locally or have an ass load of paperwork documenting its creation

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:50 PM

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and that's just the first part of working on a gov program

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:50 PM

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tbh id have to be paid way more then is standard to deal with that

#

the DMV is bad enough

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:50 PM

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Oh and also if that tool is getting a major upgrade, like version 1 to version 2, you gotta fill it all out again

#

and approvals take minimum 8 weeks meaning it can't go to Prod until it's approved for at least 8 weeks

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but it might take longer like...20 weeks

#

and then you can deploy it to prod, 20 weeks later, after it's already been released 5 times again

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:51 PM

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ya NOPE

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ill stick with private ty

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:51 PM

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and now you're 5 minor versions behind and 1 major version behind

#

And I'm not kidding I literally went through that with Rundeck lmao

lavish geyser May 13, 2020, 11:52 PM

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doesnt surprise me at all

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gov stuff is notorious

heavy plover May 13, 2020, 11:52 PM

#

So yeah, I had strong motivation to get out of that industry

#

The engineers are fantastic. Gotta be honest, I loved my team. They were awesome people, and they all were good engineers who REALLY liked America. You could probably write a sitcom about it

#

but like, wow. So much waiting

radiant moon May 14, 2020, 12:40 AM

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@heavy plover I work for ... a company who shall remain anonymous, who was competing for that contract. I'm kinda glad we didn't get it, since it'd have made my life a lot harder

heavy plover May 14, 2020, 12:45 AM

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Yeah, but you know who's not happy you didn't get it? Your management :p

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$10 billion-aroos

radiant moon May 14, 2020, 12:46 AM

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well my management's management 🙂

heavy plover May 14, 2020, 12:46 AM

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I can't even imagine $1 billion wew

radiant moon May 14, 2020, 12:46 AM

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me neither

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but then I doubt I'd have gotten a bonus so what do I care 😐

#

ah that's too cynical; maybe the stock price would have gone up

heavy plover May 14, 2020, 12:46 AM

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I was pretty irked about my company because they're forgoing raises now due to covid

radiant moon May 14, 2020, 12:46 AM

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geez, that's better than layoffs, don't you think?

heavy plover May 14, 2020, 12:47 AM

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but, the other day the C levels announced they aren't taking any salary right now

radiant moon May 14, 2020, 12:47 AM

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I used to work for Microsoft, and they treated us like kings

heavy plover May 14, 2020, 12:47 AM

#

So I was like, damn we aren't getting raises and C suite is forgoing pay at the moment, which I get pay isn't most of their wealth but still

#

it's a nice gesture to the rest of us

#

oh man, those layoffs at Airbnb, Uber, and Lyft are rough

#

I think the number was like 40% of their engineers or sumn

#

that's sad because most of those engineers just wanna build cool apps that have lots of users

stable cipher May 14, 2020, 1:01 AM

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are you all working at secure places?

mint citrus May 14, 2020, 1:14 AM

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what do you call secure?

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acording to where where I live its like the pandemic never happened

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we had like 2 weeks of WFH and it was over

stable cipher May 14, 2020, 1:15 AM

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the pandemic is over where you live?

mint citrus May 14, 2020, 1:16 AM

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its not

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but they act like it is

stable cipher May 14, 2020, 1:17 AM

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and how are cases doing?

mint citrus May 14, 2020, 1:17 AM

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its very disorganized in this country

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we get like 6 new ones everyday

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im waiting for the numbers to go up again

radiant moon May 14, 2020, 1:58 AM

#

are you all working at secure places?
@stable cipher my job has some secure stuff, which the one or two "cleared" people can do. It's a huge pain in the butt.

shadow moss May 14, 2020, 2:02 AM

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@heavy plover I feel you, no, JEDI is going into Azure Secret/Top Secret clouds along with Gov cloud

#

rdbaker, nope, I work in public company, no clearance required

stable cipher May 14, 2020, 2:18 AM

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Oops lol I mean secure like job security

radiant moon May 14, 2020, 2:19 AM

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there's no such thing, except possibly in government

heavy plover May 14, 2020, 3:09 AM

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@shadow moss so Azure is making it's own version of Gov Cloud?

#

or is there already a Federal arm of Azure?

#

Jesus, GovCloud is still limited to EC2, S3, EBS, VPC, and IAM because of security compliance

#

and Azure Govt is similar but it has 365 built in

#

lmfao

radiant moon May 14, 2020, 3:13 AM

#

pretty sure AWS has more than those services in GovCloud

heavy plover May 14, 2020, 3:13 AM

#

it does but it's on a case by case basis and it has to be approved by a government admin

#

and it depends on the clearance of your program

#

I remember the program I used to be on had all the services listed but a lot of them were locked out

shadow moss May 14, 2020, 3:21 AM

#

Snazzle, Gov Cloud already exists for US government agencies and those who need FedRAMP High

heavy plover May 14, 2020, 3:21 AM

#

Right but it's AWS right?

shadow moss May 14, 2020, 3:21 AM

#

Azure that is

heavy plover May 14, 2020, 3:21 AM

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ahhh ok

#

i used aws gov cloud but not azure, wasn't sure

plain thicket May 14, 2020, 4:00 AM

#

yo

marsh wind May 14, 2020, 7:01 AM

#

there's no such thing, except possibly in government
@radiant moon in US Perhaps. But EU is bit different in that regard

cold wyvern May 14, 2020, 10:53 AM

#

Hey folks. I'm a 26 year old living in England, looking to change career and get into software development. I've been teaching myself Python through a variety of sources (Python Crash Course book, Harvards CS50 for basic computer science, playing around with PyCharm and reading around stack overflow and a bunch of other sites(subreddits/this discord). I wondered what advice y'all have for someone in my position in terms of:

Best resources for learning
Best way to get my foot in the door
Anything else you wish you had known at the start of your programming journey?

gilded valley May 14, 2020, 11:12 AM

#

!resources

there's a bunch of cool links from the bot. Automate the boring stuff is usually reccomended for just starting out - but you might be slightly past that after doing CS50, so I'm not sure which is best. Just have a look at the options.
In the pins is a post from a guy who was in a very similar position to you who managed to go from 0 to self teaching in ~year. Your actual learning process very likely won't be the same as his, but he talks about actually getting a job at the end - and that seems like its pretty relevant to getting your foot in the door.

inner wrenBOT May 14, 2020, 11:12 AM

#

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

cold wyvern May 14, 2020, 11:15 AM

#

Thanks @gilded valley, very useful stuff right there! And what don't you like about the CS50 course @vapid jay ?

gilded valley May 14, 2020, 11:15 AM

#

CS50 is pretty well regarded as an intro. It doesn't go that far - but it definitely gives you the basics and a solid base where you can carry on learning from

cold wyvern May 14, 2020, 11:21 AM

#

To be fair CS50 is pretty tough if you're 11 years old @vapid jay! But keep at it! Is there any way we can help with GitHub?

#

@gilded valley Yeah I've found that in terms of actual programming, it hasn't taught me much more than I've already picked YET, but it's given me a deeper understanding of the actual CS stuff going on underneath, which is always good!

#

But I guess that's what the course is designed for really

mellow agate May 14, 2020, 11:25 AM

#

!tempban 627787274813440001 2years Having an account while being under 13 years of age is against Discord TOS and our rules. Feel free to come back once you're older.

inner wrenBOT May 14, 2020, 11:25 AM

#

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @sharp chasm until 2022-05-14 11:25 (1 year and 11 months).

vapid jay May 14, 2020, 11:30 AM

#

the kid will be waiting now to get his revenge on you scragly. better go ask for his birthday so you can give him the exact appropriate ban length!

#

might be waiting for that day. who knows

#

no but seriously maybe he reaaally wants to learn and he's sad that he can't be here learning

indigo sleet May 14, 2020, 11:32 AM

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It's 13 because of child safety laws

marsh wind May 14, 2020, 11:32 AM

#

it's still against TOS and as the server is discord partner they have to ban

vapid jay May 14, 2020, 11:32 AM

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well yeah that's fine and all but then he can come back when he's 13 and not 13½

indigo sleet May 14, 2020, 11:33 AM

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It would be collection of personally identifying information, they'd need parental permission to collect it

marsh wind May 14, 2020, 11:33 AM

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normally he received the DM about the ban so I guess he can appeal the length

vapid jay May 14, 2020, 11:33 AM

#

right

#

hope he knows what to do

mellow agate May 14, 2020, 11:34 AM

#

You're assuming the account will last that long

#

Discord actively delete all accounts that are found out to be underage. He's no doubt active in other servers that can easily report him

#

Plus they've got a huge push for age gates atm

#

So it's not a small matter to them

marsh wind May 14, 2020, 11:36 AM

#

Anything else you wish you had known at the start of your programming journey?
@cold wyvern to get back on the topic. If you already have some job you can think of ways to automate some things or incorporate scripting into it if it's possilbe

#

there are also such things as meetups of different local communities

#

that will of course depend a lot on the city. But it can be a place to learn new stuff and to meet people

#

OK now due to Covid19 it is not the best advice

#

but overall

gilded valley May 14, 2020, 11:39 AM

#

What you do now is actually pretty important. Semi-relevant experience will be a big help when looking for a job

cold wyvern May 14, 2020, 11:39 AM

#

lol gotta feel bad for the kid. No one helping him from Harvard and a 2 year ban on the discord D:

marsh wind May 14, 2020, 11:40 AM

#

also while your degree (or absense of it) is not a huge decisive factor (although no degree will make things more diffcult according to many people here), but it can play a role

cold wyvern May 14, 2020, 11:41 AM

#

@gilded valley @marsh wind good advice. Been applying for some apprenticeships already. I have a very unrelated degree (1st Class BA Music) but am squeezing any relevancy out of that and my current/previous job roles that I can

#

Though I don't entirely feel like I'm quite in a position yet to work full time in the industry haha

gilded valley May 14, 2020, 11:41 AM

#

Music grads are actually somewhat liked by big corps. IBM for example actively look for music graduates to hire into tech roles

cold wyvern May 14, 2020, 11:42 AM

#

Interesting

#

I guess there's a fellow sense of nerdiness across the two fields haha

gilded valley May 14, 2020, 11:42 AM

#

The reasoning for it I've heard is that music students are more creative than CS students

#

(Although I definitely don't buy that)

cold wyvern May 14, 2020, 11:43 AM

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Yeah, that's actually a huge part of why I enjoy programming so much alreaedy

#

So I can see the logic

marsh wind May 14, 2020, 11:44 AM

#

also I heard from Spotify employee that while it is totally not required but they are interested in people with music background with strong tech skillset and creative mindset

#

same probably goes for Deezer

#

and similar things

shadow moss May 14, 2020, 11:44 AM

#

I’ve also heard music grads are better team players

shut geyser May 14, 2020, 11:49 AM

#

maybe its just to avoid Stemlords

fringe plume May 14, 2020, 11:52 AM

#

job postings be like

hiring a junior python developer
required experience: track record of mentoring junior developers

#

I'm so confused who this person is who has a track record of mentoring junior developers or have been working for 5+ years with the language and is now looking for a new job as a junior developer

shut geyser May 14, 2020, 11:55 AM

#

seen that a lot when searching for a job

cold wyvern May 14, 2020, 11:55 AM

#

@fringe plume pretty sure this is just every field these days

shut geyser May 14, 2020, 11:56 AM

#

Fullstack Junior dev with docker/AWS and ;achine learning

#

:25/30k

#

Goodluck lol

fringe plume May 14, 2020, 11:56 AM

#

like who is this person with absolute zero self confience happy to go 1 step forward 2 steps back

#

who didn't manage to grow out of the junior position over 5 years

#

and why is like every company looking for this profile -_-

#

also xD https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Притча_о_слепых.jpeg

#

this is what I imagine a junior developer mentoring junior developers

vapid jay May 14, 2020, 1:38 PM

#

I can't believe you banned a kid without telling him he doesn't have to pay for certificates

unkempt cloud May 14, 2020, 3:29 PM

#

Maybe he wanted the certificate. Seems pretty clear that the course is free but it has a professional certificate available for those who want it on a resume.

unkempt cloud May 14, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

I'm starting an internship and have a zoom call (never done a conference call before) - do people usually have webcams?

wind hinge May 14, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

congratulations on getting internship, tho sorry idk answer on that, I would like to know that as well

limber rampart May 14, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

maybe you can ask your colleagues what the culture is

#

i usually don't use a webcam for company calls

unkempt cloud May 14, 2020, 5:12 PM

#

Meh. The call is a Q&A session, so what better a place to ask.

stable cipher May 14, 2020, 5:15 PM

#

my rule of thumb is to keep it on if I'm hosting, otherwise I only have mine on when it benefits from being more personal (sales calls, demo calls, close teammates etc.)

rare sand May 14, 2020, 7:19 PM

#

where I work, 80% of us always have the cam on in every call

#

and 20% never use a cam no matter what

vapid jay May 14, 2020, 7:23 PM

#

If you were a hiring manager looking at junior developers, or knowing what you know about people, do you think this is bad -- particularly the line about the avatar. I'm thinking that because I don't want anyone to judge me for snagging images off the Internet to use on website (even if its not for profit), I should probably not do this right?

📎 unknown.png

marsh wind May 14, 2020, 7:23 PM

#

in our daily skype calls no one uses cam

gilded valley May 14, 2020, 7:30 PM

#

If it's a professional site, I'd just ditch the logo altogether. Unless you can find the license for it, the default license is rights reserved I believe @vapid jay

vapid jay May 14, 2020, 7:41 PM

#

Right.

#

So you think if I plan to put it on a resume, no logo at all?

gilded valley May 14, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

As in a paper/pdf resume that you'd submit to job applications?

#

or like a resume/portfolio site?

vapid jay May 14, 2020, 7:42 PM

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portfolio site