If you like reverse engineering, hardware, low level stuff. I think you would be a great fit in the field
#career-advice
ancient rune
manic dock
Guys, what easily doable job could add value to a full stack dev ?
I'm currently working full time for an ERP company but my wife is unemployed and due to her lack of qualifications (she tried accountability but failed), I don't see her finding anything anytime soon, especially in the current context. So I was wondering, maybe I could employ her. Even it's something little, it's better than nothing.
I was thinking, maybe I could employ her as a support for a site I would create or something. I can teach her stuff but her set of skills doesn't match programming very well (she sucks at math and isn't the most rigorous person, she's better at social skills).
What do you guys think about it ?
zenith inlet
idk if i'd subject a significant other to being support
wind hinge
Math is not slmething that cant be learned
zenith inlet
but you could try it
manic dock
Of course, but maybe something is better.
slow iris
what exactly would she do?
manic dock
Well, it's an ongoing thought, I was thinking that maybe I was missing something or you guys would have some nice ideas.
zenith inlet
i think a mom & pop shop service would be cute
it might make for decent marketing material
especially if your clients are small businesses
manic dock
what exactly would she do?
@slow iris Support would help customers use features they don't understand, identify if it's an edge case scenario, a bug or misdesigned feature.
slow iris
i don't see why she couldn't then
manic dock
Yeah, she could. But would that be the best career choice ? I mean, the question should be, as a full stack developer, how would you employ a "free" unemployed person at your service ?
Two answers we got here are:
- support
- teach programming and then enjoy second dev
zenith inlet
support, or handling some PM / organizational duties
slow iris
I waas just thinking about it as a "pretty easy to do " thing.
zenith inlet
maybe manual testing?
slow iris
so can test the website?
zenith inlet
you lose the mom test factor if she's familiar with the product
like you can't run it by her to see if she gets confused
manic dock
Mmh, these are some nice options, I'm writing down.
Yeah, it wouldn't be effective user testing
slow iris
i doubt it lol
zenith inlet
though if she isnt rigorous, testing isnt exactly something she'd be great at
slow iris
what would you want her to test for?
vapid jay
I am bad at maths and I d like to choose my computer science high school but my friends say no. Should I go for computer science school or not?
As I suck at maths
zenith inlet
computer science high school
do you mean take a class in it?
vapid jay
Yes
vapid jay
It s the general computer science school
zenith inlet
and what do you mean by suck at maths?
vapid jay
My grades in math are low
vapid jay
Computer science high school?
zenith inlet
@vapid jay so are you not yet in highschool?
zenith inlet
in the US there aren't really different specialized highschools
vapid jay
Oh
vapid jay
I know JavaScript, python, c#
zenith inlet
i think you might be using the word highschool to mean something different
vapid jay
What do you think should I go for computer science school or not?
P.S I am bad at maths
vapid jay
3 years of wasted life then
wind hinge
It will be 4*
vapid jay
Why?
wind hinge
Thats how much my gymnasiums takes
Time to be finished
And as well proffesor of math is not capable of teaching in gymnasium, he is more primary school prof
But still i have c in math :v
Amd we dont have things like high school for comp sci
There is hig school specialized for IT
Or math
Other hs are less valuable
marsh wind
3 years of wasted life then
@haughty lake why wasted
vapid jay
Guys, what easily doable job could add value to a full stack dev ?
I'm currently working full time for an ERP company but my wife is unemployed and due to her lack of qualifications (she tried accountability but failed), I don't see her finding anything anytime soon, especially in the current context. So I was wondering, maybe I could employ her. Even it's something little, it's better than nothing.
I was thinking, maybe I could employ her as a support for a site I would create or something. I can teach her stuff but her set of skills doesn't match programming very well (she sucks at math and isn't the most rigorous person, she's better at social skills).
What do you guys think about it ?
@manic dock what did she do before?
manic dock
Accountant assistant and administrative work. Got fired from last position because she wasn't rigorous enough and made mistakes when encoding vendor bills.
slow iris
@vapid jay has no prior programming experience. I don't think his wife could of automated that.
manic dock
That was in December so no. Well it was possible with OCR I guess but she's nowhere near this kind of skills.
slow iris
exactly
@manic dock
it probably would be good for her to learn some form of programming though
vapid jay
@vapid jay has no prior programming experience. I don't think his wife could of automated that.
@slow iris I don't know what you're going on about lol
you couldn't parse the document?
slow iris
@vapid jay did you read what he said?
vapid jay
that's rough
scanning it and feeding it to a program could be slower than doing it by hand
but there are basically no errors if you do the first way
slow iris
True
shadow moss
@zenith inlet even under GPL, the name is consider copywrite but code isn’t. So you couldn’t release same name bot but you could release rename bot using same code base. Under GPL license, your code base must remain public.
This is why GPL license isn’t picked a ton for new projects
red rivet
how can i become a freelance worker for python
hot crane
have any recommendations @slow iris
red rivet
yeah what websites
red rivet
Is it hard to get customers
slow iris
idk lol. Just depends on how good you are i guess.
hot crane
i dont like the passive ones like that
i want to go to the person that needs help or whatever
white karma
Not much you can do unless you put yourself out there
vapid jay
Go see what kind of stuff they do in your local area and specialize in that.
Getting freelance jobs as a total rando is gonna be pretty damn difficult.
And you have to know marketing and networking. It's not just having interest in programming or skills in it.
Like one area easy to become a consultant or freelance in is measurement devices and making drivers for them
or anything to do with measurement devices
abstract spindle
freelancing sites are nothing but a race to the bottom, and with that comes clients who want to pay as little as possible. I highly do not recommend using those sites unless you’re desperate
white karma
Would you say it’s better to freelance or simply contribute to open source projects for experience/clout?
shadow moss
For more traditional job, open source
white karma
Alright, and in regards to contributing to an open source project do you just write up some code then talk to the guy in charge of the project to ask if they’ll add it?
I’ve never contributed to one before so I’m not sure what the process is
pulsar drum
No
You need to communicate before you ever start writing code
Otherwise you could end up wasting your time or their time
You can look through their issues and comment if you're interested in addressing one
Or make a proposal for a new feature
white karma
Ah got it
abstract spindle
Being involved in open source projects would give every potential employer a huge boner for you
Especially for projects that are in the big leagues like Django where it’s known by everyone who’s ever heard of python
mellow agate
lets not go too far with the immaturity
bronze umbra
formal slate
@bronze umbra hi abhi
abstract spindle
greetings
unkempt cloud
Kind of random.. I'm filling out my first resume to submit apply for an online internship. High School and while I earned an A- minimum (so I put A) in most of my relevant courses, I earned a B+ in Algebra (just not exactly dedicated to the class). Should I put B, B+ or lie and put A (obviously not lie)? They will have access to an unofficial transcript highlighting my 87 in the course..
pulsar drum
No don't lie
Do they even care about grades that much for internships?
Is it like really competitive or something for the spot among students?
unkempt cloud
I don't know. The people I saw getting into the internship (previous year) that I could find were salutatorians (rank 2 in my school, a bajillion different AP courses with 4s). I didn't see anyone else.
No idea how competitive they are in terms of grades. They must be, seeing how this is one of the few public places to go for internships.
marsh wind
well, lying on cv is usually a big No-No
pulsar drum
The impression I've gotten is to not bother with putting grades or gpa cause they usually don't care. They are more concerned with your experience and projects.
marsh wind
are you in uni/college?
unkempt cloud
Well, I'm not going to lie of course. Just kind of ashamed that I can't put A right there. It sticks out too much in my mind.
High School.
marsh wind
hm, idk of course, maybe @pulsar drum is right about projects and experinece, but I don't think they really expect that from High SChool
pulsar drum
Oh sorry I thought they meant they graduated high school
unkempt cloud
Yeah, I'm only a junior (this program is only for juniors [wtf])
marsh wind
that's why I wanted to clarify
unkempt cloud
The two projects I'm linking are https://git.io/phototag and https://git.io/resprocess. I think they're acceptable. They're the only projects that don't hinge on personal (they're pretty wide use) and are 'complete' (always room for improvement, but in a usable state).
wind hinge
On what site u find interships for HS? 🤔
unkempt cloud
You probably won't find them on a website, and they're going to have to be local. If you can find them, there's no doubt that hundreds will be wanting in too.
marsh wind
that's some impressive things you've done for high school 🙂
unkempt cloud
Email your College and Careers center (or whatever equivalent. that's where mine was).
wind hinge
Hmm there is no such a thing in here
unkempt cloud
Your school has no intermediary for your school and colleges?
unkempt cloud
Then try some staff. Teachers, assistant principals, or hell, the principal himself (depending on the size of your school). Maybe you're just not aware of it (mine is rather hidden) and they exist.
marsh wind
you guys might be in different states/countries :)
I bleive it is not the same across the world
gilded valley
Putting grades on a CV for internships is pretty important. Google and Amazon both ask for transcripts and also expect your grades to be present on your CV
wind hinge
To learn python more i needed to contact random persons with some degree, some of them helped me some of them blocked me
gilded valley
Advice from uni careers people is also to include grades on CV
wind hinge
From one i got suggestion to start doing algorithm exercises because people are searching for problem solver
But still somehow if i dont start earning something sooner or later i will start feeling stuck or like this is not something made for me to do
Thats why i am searching interships
Or even mentor will work
unkempt cloud
Would a 1 week tech camp I attended be appropriate to put under the 'Education' tab on my resume?
gilded valley
I'd put it under experience
wind hinge
Should in HS cv be something like courses i have finished?
unkempt cloud
If they're expansive courses that lasted any significant period, I would. If they're paid, yes, if they're free - maybe Projects would be better (assuming you had a finished project in the end).
unkempt cloud
@wind hinge Keep working on stuff. I may end up with a internship (even if online) this summer. That doesn't mean I won't spend my entire summer completing projects, learning new languages, studying algorithms when it ends or in my free time...
wind hinge
Lol i am searching for remote intershio that will contain all yhose stuffs
But remote intership is even harder to find
unkempt cloud
Perhaps before. Right now, remote internships are the only choice. Although, internships in general may be difficult to find (some have switched to being remote, some just straightup cancel).
keen flicker
I’m trying to pursue a career in cyber security is there something I should master while still early? currently in HS
marsh wind
channel wise both this and #cybersecurity should be fine
wind hinge
Yeah, but i ll keep trying
To find one
While doing that i eill try to search for bad looking sites near me
And to make a CV
shadow moss
@keen flicker good writing skills
Most security jobs are not like Swordfish. It’s writing policy and reports.
gilded valley
Are you a high school student @wind hinge ?
wind hinge
Yes
gilded valley
If so, your best bet for experience is going to be looking at programs aimed at HS students abroad
I'm sure they exist
but a remote internship is pretty much not gonna happen - you can look, but I'd be amazed if they exist for HS students
unkempt cloud
I listened to a talk from the Cybersecurity/IT team at A&M. Sounded like half their job was installing antivirus, finding what users are letting through viruses, investigating potential breaches... Almost like half of it is just straightup IT work, with a little bit of security mixed in.
wind hinge
Ehh I live at small place where prof of IT in HS is smartest at IT
There is no such interships
Not even competitions of solving problems
untold tulip
Being involved in open source projects would give every potential employer a huge boner for you
@abstract spindle Do you have any suggestions on how to find open source projects?
wind hinge
marsh wind
you can look through github
there tags
like easy or good first issue etc
to start with
abstract spindle
Get familiar with Python enough to be able to contribute to projects. As you get more into Python you’ll learn more about projects
untold tulip
Get familiar with Python enough to be able to contribute to projects. As you get more into Python you’ll learn more about projects
@abstract spindle gotcha, thanks!
unkempt cloud
Being able to contribute to open source is a pretty tall order most of the time. Feels like even being able to do that would put you on a potential employer's list.
At least, for me it feels a couple orders of difficulty past me.
abstract spindle
For established projects like Django it’ll be hard to contribute because the Python being used is very advanced
That is not recommended for rookies
But you can contribute to smaller projects
shadow moss
Or come up with your own project even if it doesn’t see use
abstract spindle
Making your own projects is great
Shows you not only have initiative but you can learn new things effectively
upbeat elm
jeah everyone says contributing to open source projects of your skill level is great
it teaches you how to understand codebase, how to debug unknown code and collaboration
keen flicker
@keen flicker good writing skills
@shadow moss writing code?
shadow moss
where do you want to get a job?
keen flicker
Singapore or somewhere in the West
shadow moss
Well, I can speak for US, our security people spend alot of time verifying some random certification is met
or comign up with policies
or doing a bunch of things that look like security but are not
keen flicker
oof
shadow moss
but in US, most of cybersecurity is with the government and most of time, you will need to have US Citizenship
keen flicker
that would probably be hard to get in the future
my grandparents and uncles already have citizenship but that wouldn't change anything lolz
shadow moss
they might be able to sponsor you but as native born American, I'm not very knowledge on our immigration laws around citizenship via relatives
There is work visas obviously but they are not easy to get compared to number of applicants
keen flicker
I see
the reason why I wanted to go to an English speaking country is so that - I could write in English
it's way easier compared to writing in my language lmao
limber rampart
I live in a non-english speaking country currently and all internal comms at my firm are in english
that includes all documentation, reports, etc
I'd imagine that will be fairly common nowadays
shadow moss
Sure English is kind of universal language
vapid jay
Can someone review my software developer portfolio
vapid jay
who pinged
arctic grove
@vapid jay Great portfolio ..i love the UI. can you suggest me how can i making one for myself.
earnest knot
Your ping was someone asking you if the stack overflow link was supposed to go to your profile there
They deleted the message though
autumn mirage
Question, so, I sold some code a while ago, and am making a portfolio for college, what would be the best way to prove that I made the code for a portfolio? Do I just ask the new owner of the code if they can give verbal confirmation that I made said project?
static saffron
or u could have recorded your self doing it
marsh wind
I'd imagine that will be fairly common nowadays
If you are not in France....
vapid jay
The other problem with cyber security is that you won’t be able to get a security clearance with the US
shadow moss
Yep, that’s why I said US government jobs require US Citizenship
abstract spindle
even then if you become a US citizen but you’re not originally from the US it makes it harder to get clearance
shadow moss
Sure but its doable
signal berry
I don't know if this is the appropriate channel for this question, but it's the closest match I could find: is there a good book out there that teaches just basic programming concepts and practices? Not Python specific?
How to plan and design?
radiant moon
I haven't read it, but I've heard good things about https://papl.cs.brown.edu/2020/
@signal berry 
signal berry
That's a good starting point, thank you! I'm an infrastructure guy trying to learn to program
So I need filling in on a bunch of basic concepts about how programmers do work
radiant moon
well that book is very academic; I don't think any of the authors live in the real world 🙂
so "how programmers do work" ... maybe not so much; but I predict if you understand most of what's in that book, you'd be a great intern or even starter-level programmer
signal berry
My primary job is never going to be producing code in all likelihood, I'm mostly learning for things like software defined networking, etc
vapid jay
im beginning to relearn py and going to learn a buncha new languages since i got presented with a really good job opportunity
radiant moon
It's good to know a bunch of languages; some similar, some different
signal berry
Python and Powershell are my two largest concerns right now. I already know a decent amount of Powershell because I've generally worked in Windows-heavy environments
But I need something that is more OS-agnostic and Python seems to be the choice there
vapid jay
sigh
radiant moon
I imagine it's like working at any other company of the same size in the same area really
I'd expect to spend a lot of time thinking about scale, reliability, and ad stuff
shadow moss
Yea, my guess is mostly just coming up with new features and such
my only issue with working at one of those companies is "Top dating app" seems to change a ton so I'd feel not career secure terribly
radiant moon
I bet about 1% of coding goes into new features
well, ok, maybe 10%
rest is maintenance, regulatory compliance, reporting, ads, &c &c
the tedium of real life
unreal linden
hey, i like doing maintenance
radiant moon
then you shall never want for honest employment
unreal linden
not sure what you mean
radiant moon
you'll always have a job!
unreal linden
ah haha
shadow moss
offby1, it's really the job possible unstability that would worry me
radiant moon
it should. Most people I know are worried about jobs
shadow moss
like in particular, that industry
near tinsel
Would you guys say taking comp sci in 8th grade is worth it?
near tinsel
A class for one of my high school credits
vapid jay
what's the class about
is it hands on programming, or more about algorithms and data structures
near tinsel
I believe it’s hands on programming
vapid jay
Well, why would it not be worth it?
near tinsel
Idk
vapid jay
If you're wanting to enter the field, it's a great opportunity.
near tinsel
Alright thank you
vapid jay
But don't just rely on schoolwork, do most of your work outside of school 🙂
wild wigeon
If you're in high school (especially in the earlier grades), the general rule is just to pick whatever you're interested in. If you like programming/CS or would like to learn about it, then take the course. If not, choose something else that you're interested in. Enjoy the opportunity to learn something that keeps you engaged
vapid jay
Yeah, you should be driven by your interest
compact mist
I have about 1 YOE in React/Typescript and I've started taking a huge interest in Django/Flask. Currently unemployed due to covid, but if I were to look for a python backend position, will having the 1 YOE in frontend give me a better chance than no experience or will it just be I'm brand new and the 1 YOE in front doesnt even matter?
ancient rune
opinions on an about me section on a resume
@compact mist I think it would give you a better chance than no experience. You know how to work in an engineering team, supposedly know good engineering practices, documentation, software development methodologies
I am of the opinion that language skills are less important than the logic and fundamental understanding of how to build and deliver software systems. I think you will do just fine
compact mist
Thanks! Gave me more confidence and motivation to move forward 🙂
ancient rune
best of luck dude.
vapid jay
Does putting your small projects on GitHub and showcasing them Recruitment sites help you lend a better job?
compact mist
Yes @vapid jay
vapid jay
I have a job but it's not relevant to coding, it's an IT services company but my project is of support
So very less room for python programming, but I do small scale personal projects
compact mist
@ancient rune My friend whos a career counselor at an ivy league has helped me on my resume. From what I've learned from him, it depends.
If you're more senior, then dont, so your previous experience + details can have more room.
If youre more junior and looking for any job, then that would be up to you. Look for a lot of key words (ofc) and make sure its checked by peers. Even have your peers write them for you
@vapid jay From my stance, I think its best you do put it up, even if they are small. Github is like an engineering resume and if they can see your work (even if you think its small and shitty) it'll be better than nothing
vapid jay
Does relevant company project experience matter or Personal projects are of no use?
ancient rune
@compact mist that makes perfect sense. Thanks very much. I have enough experience to fill the page, so I guess that section is not needed.
personal projects are of use. showcase your passion, skills, effort.
compact mist
@ancient rune No problem. + if they have an option for a cover letter, then that would be the equivalent. Although from what I hear, submitting a cover letter is really uncommon (for software engineering positions atleast)
vapid jay
You know what, it does get me some emails about 1 or 2 recruters intrested in my profile but when I reply them back with my resume then they never reply back.
I don't know what's wrong
compact mist
Too many factors on why you wouldn't hear back. They found more experienced, hiring freeze, etc etc
But if you are getting emails then thats a sign to continue putting up the projects. Even build upon them
ruby atlas
Can anybody help me? I want to get a job as a software developer. I took an intro course on python to learn the basics of programming and python. I'm not sure what path I should be going on, what I should be learning and aiming to do. Are there entry level python jobs? I like robotics, iOS, AI, etc. Where can I get help? Thank you
vivid dock
My best guess is to just work on your own projects within those fields, and apply for jobs related to that. I wouldn't say there are any "entry jobs" for python, but more areas of expertise. Like Ai/Ml/Robotics/Web etc. but ofc, I'd imagine most Junior positions just want you to be proficient with python itself to know they can teach you what you need to work there. so just working on your own projects and making them public is another win there
Unless you can get / have an education within those fields, that probably helps as well
ruby atlas
Aren't AI and Robotics for more experienced developers and not entry level?
vivid dock
In terms of python I wouldn't say so
Sure you do need additional knowledge outside of python which you apply
but as long as you know the language itself pretty well you should do fine in most fields of it. It's going to take a little bit of time to get familiar in the environment, but most of the work is probably going to be the additional knowledge you need
ruby atlas
So would you say advice me to go with AI or Robotics?
vivid dock
If that's what you enjoy doing, yes
Let the drive of enjoying it be what pushes you forward with it
I enjoy web, hence why I got a job working on a web application
ruby atlas
but aren't there tons of jobs for web and data in python, I dont see much for robotics for eg. Btw I'm in Toronto Canada. Like are there just web backend jobs or would I have to learn javascript, css, and html
vivid dock
There's probably robotics somewhere, Ai is a constantly growing market, and can most likely be applied to most businesses
You could naturally apply for web based jobs as well to get experience
but if I were you I'd look for what I wanted to work with. Keep an up to date portfolio, write about it on social profiles like Linkedin. Let people also have the chance to find you while you work on improving yourself
ruby atlas
Thank you for the advice. Btw I heard JavaScript is very hard, is this true? I did a little swift before, how does it compare
vapid jay
Can someone review my portfolio?
pulsar drum
That's subjective. I don't think it's particularly difficult though.
vapid jay
@ruby atlas If you know Python, which you probably do judging by your presence in this sever, JavaScript in my opinion is very similar
I picked it up super quick, probably in about 30 minutes to an hour
vivid dock
Javascript feels somewhat similar, compared to typed languages at least
but the mindset when writing it is somewhat different
vapid jay
can someone give me some feedback on my software port
anybody learning here how to create gui apps using tkinter?
ruby atlas
omg my head hurts lol. So many paths to take - Robotics, AI, Web, Mobile, AR.
vivid dock
You could probably just post your portfolio, after removing sensitive/personal information if there is any
vapid jay
phone number is on there but i dont really mind
vivid dock
@ruby atlas that's why i recommend just going for that one you enjoy doing the most
I'd remove that
Even emails etc, else you might just be put on every call centers call list, or scam emailing list etc
Really annoying to deal with.
vapid jay
anything helps
@vapid jay i am beginner have just started to learn just tkinter.i have a doubt in it
Check this out
What is your doubt?
ruby atlas
would you guys recommend learning tkinter after learning the basics of python or something else like django, flask, etc.
vapid jay
It depends on what you want to build
no i have taken other course in udemy thanx for that.how can i create self adjusting button widget using frames not windows?
It's pretty conventional that most people learn game development in Pygame after learning the basics, but not everyone cares for it
i meant to say i am able to create button widget using frames but it is not shifting to left and not able to self adjust too in x or y axis
Why are you asking in this channel?? @vapid jay
ooh soory
ruby atlas
not really interested in video games at the moment, what do most people learn after other than pygame. Btw I tried to demo your Coronavirus Tracker app but it didn't work, also weird that the countries in the list are not in alphabetical order
vapid jay
something happened to the api im using
vivid dock
I'd remove the stackoverflow link
Not sure if you wrote, or can edit the background. but it's possible to freeze the page by clicking a lot. Picky people might look at things like that
vivid dock
Your users are idiots, and experienced testers know how to be one
So it's worth trying to prevent it, for the attention to detail
in my opinion at least
vivid dock
You could always try to write it yourself :)
Do you have any references / further reading on your tutoring?
vapid jay
ill definitely give it a look later on, but it's not priority
vivid dock
If so i'd somehow add that
vivid dock
Else it's just "Yeah, i totally did this"
vapid jay
yeah i get that
vivid dock
but, don't make a big deal out of the source, just have it somewhere
vivid dock
not sure how you tutor, or if you advertise it online
but a small link in the section is probably good enough
vivid dock
Is the SO link supposed to link to your profie?
vapid jay
yeah but i second guessed myself putting it there because im not that active on SO posting code or answering questions and stuff
vivid dock
Then remove the link until you can justify having it there
Maybe replace it with the reference to your tutoring if it's worth showing off
vapid jay
ok
i was thinkin of makin a youtube channel where i could start doing some basic tutorials
and link that
vivid dock
Sure
vapid jay
wb the other stuff
projects, about section
whats ur advice there
maybe im missing something on the website?
vivid dock
Projects and site looks good imo
It's not hard to find them, or get an overview
There's a Demo and source code for all projects which is great
Good READMEs on the projects as well
vapid jay
👍
vivid dock
CV looked alright as well, not that I'm a great judge of those
vapid jay
aight
vapid jay
oh nice thanks
vivid dock
Else it looks good imo.
vapid jay
ty
vivid dock
They DMed me the link
vapid jay
@vapid jay I got that channel ignore
wanton mica
if i don't interupt you i would like to ask for some advice
vivid dock
Go for it red
wanton mica
i'm actually talking on python-discusion chanel
so better not spam
@vivid dock are you here
is c# woth to learn
vivid dock
Every language has their use, and place
wanton mica
i'm planning to learn a new language, i know python and c++
what do you suggest me
to learn
vivid dock
Completely depends on what you enjoy writing, where you're located (in terms of that is mainstream in the area), what kind of software you wanna work on etc
wanton mica
i'm not sure
vivid dock
Is it just to learn something new?
unkempt cloud
If you don't know, it probably matters less than you think.
wanton mica
@unkempt cloud i'm currentlt at school and i'm looking to expand my knoledge
unkempt cloud
Pick what you're most likely to be working on long term, but if you don't know, pick literally any mainstream language. There's no downside and you waste less time worrying about it.
vivid dock
pretty much that
unkempt cloud
For example, I'm learning Java since it is what my school will be using for Robotics. That's the only reason.
vivid dock
Try all kinds of languages, find you favourite which you really specialize in. Then later use that specialization to expand onto other languages
unkempt cloud
Arduino would be C++, then. I bet there's ports, but it's primarily C++ afaik.
vivid dock
I spent most of my time in Python, but I'm pretty much able to move that knowledge over to my current job doing C#
unkempt cloud
Curious, is it circuits, or is it full fledged competition robots?
vivid dock
Programming is the skill, language is the tool
unkempt cloud
I mean, is your school doing this?
wanton mica
@unkempt cloud we organise a small competition
on our school
beteween robots
they are primarly robots which paly games like football basketball
every year it's a new game
the idea it's not to win but to know how to adjust your robot to better suit the game
unkempt cloud
That's what winning is though.
wanton mica
well the most important is to learn
but i had never heared that java was used in robotics
vapid jay
@vivid dock do u code in python or C#?
unkempt cloud
He said both (Python primarily, C# for work).
unkempt cloud
I've never done any Robotics since the class is open only to seniors (juniors like me must attend in a club format), but I've been doing research, and Java and C++ are the primary languages with actual libraries used to manage competition robots.
wanton mica
same for me
i think we have the same program
how old are you?
if i may ask
or we may talk on private
unkempt cloud
I recently turned 17.
wanton mica
lol smae
wind hinge
On python projects 🤔
unkempt cloud
The other language used in robotics, finally found it, was LabVIEW. But apparently people who use it hate it since it's pretty dumbed down.
Like an advanced version of Scratch.
vapid jay
Yeah I too want to work on python projects in field of web development
wanton mica
hm i see
wind hinge
I need to learn security in flask to start doing abck end tho
vapid jay
I am 22 about 23.will graduate in few months.i dont have any offer in hand.learning python and want to explore and go deeper into web application or web crawling
vivid dock
@vapid jay Most hobby projects are Python, I do mostly C# at work atm. However, I've had a few script kind of tasks that python worked well with. Else I'm sort of hired as a Frontend dev supposed to do JS/angular 😂
unkempt cloud
Frontend dev
So you have chosen death.
wind hinge
:v
vivid dock
(I have written 1 line of angular the past 2 months since i was hired)
wind hinge
moment when i realize that no one will hire someone who knows vanilla js~
unkempt cloud
"I helped!"
vivid dock
I stared out interning with just vanilla js knowledge at my old job
unkempt cloud
Job Title: Junior Frontend Dev
Actual Job: Senior Backend Dev and Procrastination Guru
vivid dock
I started interning, unpaid for about 6 months while I was studying. At some point I realized I was actually doing work for them that had value, so i asked for a salary
wind hinge
And did they kicked u?
vivid dock
Technically my Job title, like everyone else here is just "Developer"
unkempt cloud
Did you get it? Or is it called an 'old job' for a reason?
vivid dock
no i got a salary
wind hinge
Good for you, sadly there is no internships near my place so o ly way is remote what will be harf
Hard*
vapid jay
@vivid dock u do leetcode problems?
vivid dock
Had that salary of $500/m for 3-4 months until i started interviewing at some other firm. They got cold feet and actually gave me a proper salary which i had for another 3-4 months until i got a new offer with a 20% raise
Nope
My past experience before interning was my github projects, that are not very amazing, helping / moderating here, and being a teachers assistant at my university.
wind hinge
Luxky you, i thought to build small site and host it on github, like to show my skills or something
Kinda hard to find any job atm :(((
vivid dock
I mean, the intern position was some random shady looking post on the Unis discord channel 😂
not to mention unpaid for 6+ months
unkempt cloud
Your university had a discord?
vivid dock
It's the deadest place on the internet
If you're stuck with nothing, or still in school it might be worth looking for free intern positions while looking for something paid 🤷♂️
Gives you something to do, and someone to say you did it
wind hinge
if you find some shady interns remotely pm me some of them
Front-end or something with python
I guess back end flask
vapid jay
who pinged me
dreamy summit
I am college drop out,
I have mostly learnt stuff from YouTube videos, Discord discussions, and by writing stuff,
been working professionally for past 8 months as backend developer at a startup,
would the Stanford's CS50 degree helpful for future jobs?
and what other things I should do in order to compensate for lack of a degree?
vast shoal
Professional experience is, I would say, the best credential you can have, so you're already doing great if you're employed at a startup. I'm not sure how valuable individual degrees and certificates are, they probably don't hurt, but I can't say how much they help. Aside from that, you can build a portfolio of personal projects on, for example, Github that you can link to and show off. Or if you're able to contribute to an open source project, that might look good.
rare sand
I did a bunch of those MOOCs when I was in your situation, @dreamy summit, but I don't know if they ever helped me. Most prospective employers were completely uninterested in them.
they were, however, highly interested in my work with Python Discord, my GitHub activity as an open source contributor, and most of all my employment history once I started to build up some of that.
I think once you have a couple of years experience, the lack of a degree really doesn't matter anymore. Some companies will never hire you because you don't have a real degree, others will. neither are likely to care how many PDFs you bring to the interview from sites like edx and coursera.
that said, there's some good learning in some of those MOOCs so you should probably still consider doing some
dreamy summit
thanks a lot, folks
I have done some open source work, some Hacktoberfest, and I also have some small gigs from upWork,
I got my current job through my network recommendation and my UpWork profile
they kept me as an intern for 3 weeks and then offered me a job
rare sand
sounds good, yep, I agree with dementati
you're probably headed towards a nice, employable future
dreamy summit
I'd still be doing the CS50, for this very reason
that said, there's some good learning in some of those MOOCs so you should probably still consider doing some
thanks again 🙂
rare sand
no problem
rare sand
yep
self taught highschool dropout, @lone shell
not that I recommend that path, it definitely has a lot more resistance than just getting a degree.
lone shell
either way, thats awesome. very encouraging for us self-taught programmers
or... in the process of becoming lol
rare sand
took me nearly 10 years but now I've got a very nice software engineer job
probably could've done it faster, it didn't occur to me until way later that it was even possible to get a job writing code without a degree
lone shell
i feel you. im currently a teacher but have always wanted to learn programming... only thing that held me back was the idea that it is necessary to pursue a CS degree to get all the relevant knowledge etc...
since starting tho... i realise i wasted all that time i could have been programming lol
it is challenging no doubt... but a fun type of challenging
vast shoal
@lone shell Software engineering is probably one of the few professions where it actually is possible to get a job without a degree.
Though you do need to make up for that skill gap one way or another.
So not necessarily less work to go the self-teaching route.
rare sand
yeah I was about to say the same thing.
I think it's quite unique that you're actually able to break into such a traditionally academic field with nothing but hobbyist experience
takes a bit of passion, though, I think.
vast shoal
It's gonna be rough if you don't enjoy it. Though that's probably true even if you study at uni.
shadow moss
Lack of degree can be limiting
lone shell
I read a LinkedIn post how one recruiter hired a developer proficient in C++... fully self-taught... and he said, the reason he hired him was that, in comparison to the uni graduate applicants who over 4 years of stress and an over-kill corse-load, developed bad coding practices, the self-taught guy was producing very clean and efficient code, which left the recruiter amazed.
shadow moss
There are ceilings you can hit
lone shell
but ofc having a degree has tremendous benefits... especially these top unis that offer co-op and networking platforms
marsh wind
such a traditionally academic field
is it really that much academic filed? @rare sand
there are many things like UI/UX, automation, scripting, Front/back web dev that doesn't seem very academic to me
rare sand
maybe not today
but that's really just thanks to the internet
it's still acedemia, but it's the kind of academia that's been democratized
go back to the 80s and 90s and you'd have to have a pretty extensive academic background to be a software engineer
marsh wind
I agree, if we speak about things like ML/data, game engine dev (or in general any kind of physics/other engines) they might be more academic since they usually would require knowledge of calculus, linear algebra stats etc, that are traiditionally taugh in academic instituitons
lone shell
academia nowadays is anything in the theoretical realm of knowledge
anything else you can self-teach lol
rare sand
yeah but if I wanna be a doctor, I still need a degree
marsh wind
yeah, I don't deny about 80-90s
shadow moss
Didn’t BDFL make Python in academia?
vast shoal
I'm not sure what kind of ceilings you would hit lacking a degree. Maybe you won't be hired as a lead data scientist without a Ph.D., but if you have 5 years of working experience as a software engineer, I can't imagine any employer would be very concerned with whether you went to uni before that or not.
marsh wind
at that time people also did not have plethora of free online resoursec
vast shoal
I honestly doubt it. If you work your way up through the ranks, your employer will be more interested in your accomplishments at the company and whether you're doing a good job rather than if you took project management courses at uni 10 years ago.
lone shell
surely, having existing material and experience that can prove your competency would suffice even for management level and beyond
vast shoal
And if you've had previous senior/architect/manager positions, getting more is easier.
marsh wind
I guess it's just that certain companies might have some policies about degree
vast shoal
I guess it's possible, it's just never been the case in my experience.
And it seems kind of arbitrary to me.
marsh wind
I know one man who got a phony diploma years ago to get into one company
vast shoal
@marsh wind That's fraud, though.
shadow moss
My American company unofficially has that policy.
rare sand
in my experience, the kinds of companies that would absolutely require degrees for senior roles or architect roles are the same ones that wouldn't have hired you without a degree in the first place.
marsh wind
and they had to fire him in many years cause one of their clients requested to check validity diploma
vast shoal
That's actually illegal.
lone shell
i think newer companies are adopting a more lenient approach, especially with developers tho
marsh wind
and the company said they are sorry and that he's welcome back any time for other role
@vast shoal it is. But these kind of things used to be omnipresent
(in the country in question I mean)
shadow moss
Lemon, it’s one of those, people can be promoted into those roles but fresh hired without a degree regardless of experience is very rare
vast shoal
Yeah, I'm only speaking from my own experience working as a professional in this industry for the past decade.
shadow moss
East Coast US at S&P 500
vast shoal
I think you probably wouldn't usually be hired as a manager fresh out of college even with a degree.
Or as an architect or a senior.
shadow moss
Which can be more stodgy watching my more west coast friends
Fresh, no
But after a few years, easily
vast shoal
Of course, a degree adds to a resume, so if you don't have one, you have to make up for it with something else if you want the same chance to be hired for a given position.
shadow moss
Since management is where you promote unproductive people to free up a slot
rare sand
what an edgy opinion
shadow moss
Not really
rare sand
okay. well, I'm glad I don't work somewhere where that's true
shadow moss
But I’ve seen far more, developer 2-3 years then hit management track
Depends on size of company as well.
shut geyser
also it's often considered as "evolution"
shadow moss
I kind of get it, developer is life time of continuing to learn where management is not as bad
shut geyser
in France I believe it's more prestigious/better paid to have underlings
sometime they promote good dev who become bad manager because it's "how to go up"
shadow moss
My company tried to prevent that by having manager pay scales cross with senior developer pay scales
shut geyser
In the company i worked for in Belgium, it's how you get higher salary as well, so you have people that are here since long, with no management skills, but having to manage
We had 2 managers for 4 people in my team for exemple and they "didn't have time to manage and we should be proactive"
shadow moss
But it’s far easier to get management then hit one of those developer pay scales
rare sand
the way you guys describe those fortune 500 companies with a thousand developers always sounds like a dystopian nightmare to me
vast shoal
In my experience, the people who were promoted to managers were mainly because they wanted to and because they enjoyed it, and were also reasonably good at it.
shadow moss
Lemon, it can be
The upside is steady paycheck, technologies don’t change that much so you are not spending a bunch of time learning that new react or like and as long as you are outputting work, you can skate
marsh wind
were promoted to managers were mainly because they wanted to and because they enjoyed it
I know a guy who was promoted to project manager where he did not really wanted it. In like 4 or 6 months he changed company to go back to dev cause that it was he actually enjoy (even if it was a bit less pay and not would strip him of some quite unique benefits)
shadow moss
And it’s generally about 40 hours of work a week, so no weekend, late night crunch
rare sand
I get all of those advantages where I am now.
vast shoal
My managers have all been kind of the "last to abandon the ship" types, so whenever we crunched, they'd always be around.
Which is nice, because it also minimizes unnecessary crunch.
@marsh wind Yeah, I'd probably do the same.
shadow moss
Lemon, you guys don’t upgrade python versions at all or libraries?
marsh wind
you guys don’t upgrade python versions
last week I asked our lead to run some of my code server side as I could not do all localy and it crashed cause I did f-strings and on server there is py3.5 😅
shadow moss
Containers!
marsh wind
I think when(if) it goes production it'll be 3.5 too
cause it's not from scratch new things, it's adding features to existing
rare sand
Lemon, you guys don’t upgrade python versions at all or libraries?
@shadow moss
I don't really understand this question. Sure we do.
shadow moss
at a ton of megacorps, it's rare to upgrade anything for years
I got requested to help another group, still rocking python 2.7 because "It's what we know"
none of the libraries are python 2.7 only, just "What we know"
so if you don't want to learn anything new, you are set
vapid jay
What's the first python project that gave you money?
not that python projects give money but what is the first project you created that earned you money?
abstract spindle
another reason i hate working at mega corps because everything moves ridiculously slow and everything is out dated and by the time they upgrade the new version is coming out
vast shoal
The one I'm currently working on (an online payment service) is the first one consisting mainly of Python code. I've written Python scripts in a professional capacity before.
shadow moss
sure Bick but that can be positive as well, after a while, sometimes whole constantly learning sucks, I got scuba diving and non computer things I want to do instead of learning another thing
abstract spindle
Yeah, I can see why it's a pro for some people
I mean shit I'll take a job running the alpha version of Python if it means being employed 
neon moat
I think any company that runs software that is behind major versions and no longer receives security updates and the rest could be a major flag which is indicative of their attitude, why would you work for a company like that?
I mean I completely understand people that just want to be employed, but I don't think many engineers that aspire to self improvement would want to stay in that place for any length of time
Anyway..
abstract spindle
Depends on your career goals and mindset I guess, if you just want a job that pays well that you can be comfortable at for years it probably doesn't really matter
marsh wind
hat pays well that you can be comfortable at for years
I believe this changes with year
you can be happy for 1-2 years
but eventually you might strive for more for one reason or another
abstract spindle
yeah i can see that
So my state just launched a program that makes it so even if u didnt meet the requirements beforehand u can now get unemployment, but whenever I go online to file it says im not eligible which is wrong because the new program makes me eligible, and when you call you just get a message that says that no agents are available call again later
so in other words, no one can apply under this new program
marsh wind
probably agents are overloaded
just keep trying, if you're eligible you should get it
shadow moss
What Bick said Josh, it pays, somewhat comfortable, and for many, other desires besides programming and like take over
so go to work, get paid for 40 hours and go home and raise your kids, meet with friends at brewery
whatever non computer thing you want
neon moat
each to their own
shadow moss
what age range are you?
just saying, life changes
it's not me, because eventually lack of learning catches up to you either via outsourcing or some young kid
neon moat
what do you mean by lack of learning?
if someone is dedicating more of their time to improving their skills while you go out drinking then ofcourse they are going to overtake you at some point 😂
I think people dont understand the competitive world we are in. If you want to just do your 9-5 thats fine, but dont complain when you stagnate and someone hungrier than you overtakes you
shadow moss
like the lack of keeping your skills fresh
Sure but for many older people, that wasn't the bill of goods they were sold
neon moat
but isnt that down to each individual person? I think im misunderstanding what you are asking/saying
shadow moss
Get your degree, go into this "newfangled" computer thing and you will have nice white collar job/paycheck to raise your kids and comfortable life
I'm talking with very American centric point of view
neon moat
what are you getting at though?
shadow moss
this is why megacorps can be so attractive
because they move so slow, you don't need to be constantly keeping your skills fresh but company doesn't demand it
neon moat
ahh yeah fair enough
shadow moss
it will catch up with you possibly but that's another problem for another year
shadow moss
another problem for another year
neon moat
i'm not here to judge people haha, like i said, each to their own
shadow moss
I know, but for those wondering "Why megacorp (that isn't FAANG or microsoft)?"
neon moat
the ironic thing is, is that companies in america are complaining they cant recruit COBOL developers coz they are all retiring
those are the old megacorps for you
but its good because it forces innovation in the industry
imo anywy
marsh wind
I think there are pro/cons in this for different people at different life stage
. If you want to just do your 9-5 thats fine, but dont complain when you stagnate and someone hungrier than you overtakes you
for this, I am not a big fan of constantly going beyond 9-5 or 9-6
and going on weekends
one of reaons I wanted to ditch academia so badly 😅
I don't like to constantly overwork for nothing.
neon moat
thats fair enough, no problem with doing that
marsh wind
I mean, I understand that if need arises you gota do that
marsh wind
oh ok
neon moat
on your own time
marsh wind
I think my deformed mind perceives phrases like this as unpaid overtimes 🙂
marsh wind
I do think that with years and especialy family/kinds/etc priorities will change and people will prefer to keep anything to the 9-6 routine and not to think of it after 🙂 Some might even strive it early on, to each its own 🤷♂️
neon moat
yep i agree
marsh wind
yeah fair
that is what almost 4 year of academia do to people 😂
neon moat
haha i wouldnt know
neon moat
try 15 years of being broke and shitty jobs over going to school for 4 years, i know what i would prefer
marsh wind
to discuss possible project we could do
marsh wind
and one of them said (Sunday night) that she cannot participate in our call:
"person 1: 04/26/2020
Today I am working :/
this is what you do when you want a contract to be prolonged )))
person 2 04/26/2020
@ person 1 an academic slavery or how to give a motivation without paying a person"
neon moat
sorry im confused haha
marsh wind
just perspective isnt it i guess
it is indeed.
going to school
going to school for 4 years usually also means hanging with friends, going overnight to the club etc etc afte you are done with classes and homework and maybe some self study 🙂
sorry im confused haha
@neon moat hm?
marsh wind
so yeah, that is not the kind of school I meant
but I agree, 4 years and 13 is very different
but I know person who lived like that for about 15 years before ditching it
I just realized the situation and ditched it early on
neon moat
u left education?
marsh wind
no, I left academia
neon moat
ahh i see
marsh wind
I never said those were 4 years of going to school, it was PhD and some postdoc.
the girl I cited above is a post doc now who has to work over weekends/nights if she wants a chance to get funding for another year
neon moat
right i see
marsh wind
and the other guy I mentioned did 12 years of post docs (which involves moving every year or two to different city/country) before going to industry at age of 39 😑
School, as in get your BSc, MSc is fine
neon moat
blimy
marsh wind
Even PhD if you are audacious enough. But beyond that in current reality is next to suicide 😂
blimy
@neon moat pardon me ? I don't know the word and Google not helping much
neon moat
sort of means 'shocked'
marsh wind
Oh 👌🏻
vapid jay
how much coding do u need to know to get a job
marsh wind
@vapid jay there is no unique answer.
one might say: "enough to get the job done and convince the employer to hire you"
sleek fulcrum
Starting my software engineering course this year!
Did anyone took the same study?
Or computer science?
marsh wind
probably lots of people considering server size 🙂 but I would imagine experience would differ a lot across schools/countries
wind hinge
May you send me link to that site?
abstract spindle
When’s this Coronavirus thing getting cancelled on Twitter because I need a job lol
wind hinge
Thanks :D
dark plank
Is U of Waterloo good for computer sci
opal perch
isnt it the best in canada?
ruby atlas
Why is web dev so important when there are websites you can go to, to create your own website, like square space for eg.
vapid jay
you're restricted to using their servers and databases @ruby atlas
if you're a well established company, you're not going to be using products like shopify or squarespace
instead you're going to hvae a team of engineers who each have a designated role in maintaining the website in their space, front end, back end, design, analytics, etc
shopify/square space are for non technical individuals who want to make a start-up or a small local business and they don't know how to code a website on their own
same reason things like wix are pushed through ads all the time
radiant moon
also squarespace et al are basically about creating a pretty standard e-commerce site, but there are lots of other things a web site can do
ruby atlas
ok thank you. Do you know what type of jobs I can get with python for a beginner, I'm considering switch to swift or web dev because I can't really find any python jobs that arent very high level. All the "python jobs" seem to be part of web dev
mint pumice
@ruby atlas imo for jobs you should learn JavaScript. You can do backend, frontend, and mobile with JavaScript these days and once you find the job and niche you work well in then you can expand within that (e.g. learning Go for backend, or flutter/dart/kotlin for mobile)
abstract spindle
I just applied for about 10,000 different data center technician jobs all over the country
entry level but i might be a little over wualified
shell dagger
data center technicians use python?
abstract spindle
they do when they’re absolutely desperate for a job
ruby atlas
@mint pumice would you say its better to go with front end or back end
mint pumice
@ruby atlas
Depends on your skill level. If you have more design skills, know html/css, or have made a website previously I'd say frontend would be good for you. I personally like backend more, there it'll be more about SQL, optimizing your code to be faster or quicker, some devops, and more computational often.
They're both good, depends on you
left storm
marsh wind
depends
opal perch
my understanding and I could be wrong, there are some reputable and respected ones. Not all will be
abstract spindle
@left storm Most are not reputable and may help your skill set but they’re no resume pieces. Free code camp is a known one
vapid jay
The boot camps aren’t good for job searching, but if you don’t have a job currently the intensive focus on the coding skills can be a good way to ramp up quickly
But portfolio + networking matter more. Your best job skill is to read the two hour job search. I’m not a “tech” guy so YMMV but I’ve literally never gotten a job without networking help.
shy anchor
If I'm looking to do full stack web-dev, am I an idiot to not include JS?
mint pumice
@shy anchor I personally think if you don't know JS or aren't comfortable with JS or don't list it on your resume or have any projects using it you'll have a tough time advertising as full stack web dev.
white karma
Adding onto that, I read that C would be a good front end language compliment to Python’s backend.
mint pumice
@white karma eh I don't agree with this. C will be difficult to program in because it requires so much low level computer knowledge about bytes, buffers, pointers, you need to think about memory allocation all the time.
shy anchor
@vapid jay @mint pumice Yeah, that's what I thought.
white karma
What would you recommend for a frontend language?
vapid jay
C doesn't have anything to do with the frontend.
shy anchor
@vapid jay Do you think JS is enough, or also learning more frameworks like react is mandatory?
shy anchor
Right now I'm learning python, django, and bootstrap. expanding slowing into JS and CSS/HTML. getting kinda overwhlmed.
mint pumice
@white karma depends on what the app is. JS and frameworks let you use the browser as a frontend. You can use Python qt libraries to write your frontend in python
vapid jay
@shy anchor well you can keep them separate.
white karma
@mint pumice that’s good to know, I’m learning django right now for web dev
mint pumice
@shy anchor @white karma Django is great, should let you focus on the app and worry less about stuff that's hard to understand
vapid jay
@shy anchor it might be fun to work on the HTML and JS side for a moment. it's separate and some might say easier than python and django
shy anchor
Yeah, I'm just getting....lost. Kind of when you have a pile of food, so you don'
don't know what to make....but you still have all of the things to do it.
white karma
I feel that man
mint pumice
@shy anchor what app are you building rn?
white karma
You just gotta keep doing new stuff while practicing the basics
shy anchor
@mint pumice home dashboard, using django as the backend. python to pull the data/requests. Bootstrap to format the page.
but now I want to learn how to make it interactive, so I need to know more html/css/JS
mint pumice
I guess a home dashboard for what?
Like a dashboard that says stuff about your home?
shy anchor
Oh, like weather, news, power usage, etc.
top reddit posts, etc.
like world at a glance type of thing.
shadow moss
@shy anchor yea, you will need JS, all hotness is electron apps or SPA apps
In fact, thanks to horror that is node, JS could be your only language
shy anchor
@shadow moss yeah, I pretty much figured that JS would be required.
shadow moss
Just like someone using python for web wouldn’t write their own, they would use flask, django
Code deployed CEO doesn’t care
shy anchor
Yeah.
I'm just annoyed that if you don't know at least 4 languages you're dead in the water.
shadow moss
Python and JS library will get you far
white karma
Would you say those are essential for web dev work?
shadow moss
for any front end work, JS is crazy essential
backend is little more flexible
you can use Java/Python/.Net/Rust/Go
white karma
I do not like java, but will learn it if I have to
shadow moss
you don't have to learn it
but backends can generally be coded in various random languages
indigo sleet
The point is to be flexible
south leaf
learning java is THE easiest way into a backend developer position, but it might become one of more boring ways
white karma
I can handle boring
What I struggle with is the drive to do things on my own, which I’m working on
shadow moss
java as language is reliable
there is plenty of applications out there, esp in Enterprise that use Java
south leaf
@white karma this is what im struggling with right now even after 2 years of corporate work. Listen, if you have no motivation right now then you will not have motivation even if they pay you $100k a year. I only now started doing something which i really enjoy (side projects)
sorry if you didnt need to know that
south leaf
well backend java is highest paid programming job i think (at least at starting positions)
neon moat
depends on location
neon moat
First language is always the hardest, once you have programming concepts down and move onto a second language its a lot easier to piece things together
theres a lot of terminology thats exists in one language that doesnt correlate to another
imo anyway
i.e. public, private and protected terminology in java doesnt exist in python
white karma
So from what I understand, a healthy full stack repertoire would be knowing java, JS, and python
white karma
Piecing together what I’ve seen so far from this channel
shadow moss
JS and Backend language of your choice
neon moat
full stack could mean one backend language + html/ css
you have enough to learn without trying to learn js/ java and python
pick one, learn it well first
shadow moss
so JS/Python is fine
neon moat
then move on to the next one
shadow moss
or JS/Java
neon moat
exactly
shadow moss
JS/C#
white karma
I’m not saying I’ll learn them all at once, that’s crazy
shadow moss
or just JS/JS Node
shadow moss
Few places will let you pick your backend language
they will mostly want to you use what they use
at my company, it's JS/C#
white karma
In that case I’ll stick to python/django
And learn bits of other languages here and there
white karma
I appreciate the input
marsh wind
also do look at job listing requirements in your area
or area where you intend to look for job
from what I've heard depending on state/city/country there might be some more favored back-end languages
white karma
A lot of the jobs I’ve looked at give the whole “must have 5+ years experience” spiel
marsh wind
well those are not entry level positions tho....
or if they are they are messed up lol
white karma
A few of them didn’t say specifically, just “python dev”
thick fable
In the case of entry level jobs asking for that it's usually just HR drones being clueless about what is actually needed. Don't let that scare you off, submit a resume.
white karma
I’m not scared, but I know for a fact I have no professional experience
thick fable
You wouldn't be applying for entry level jobs if you did.
white karma
Very true, yes
marsh wind
for HR screening you need good-quality Resume (content+visual look) and confidence during interview, aka don't like but make an impression that you are a professional even if you don't have exact experience,, you have done X,Y,Z as side projects (or whatever) so you learned relevan techniques. It seems to me that what HRs/Recruiters care about a lot while they interviewing you is that you are ready-to-work, in the sense that you don't have to learn the whole stack on the job.
But I guess you already know/heard that so I am probably just wasting time at this point 😂
shadow moss
entry level is hard to find right now
but keep at it
non remote jobs don't want bring on new jr dev remote
white karma
My only real advantage is being between Irvine and LA
So distance traveled isn’t a huge issue
radiant island
How many python certifications do you guys think are a standard requirement for an entry level job?
lapis wind
certifications?
radiant island
Like PCEP, PCAP, etc
white karma
I don’t think certifications matter all that much, correct me if I’m wrong
lapis wind
i agree with you
alot of its experience and portfolio
you dont need a certification to say you know the basics
reading it seems a lil bit of a waste of 59$ when it basically goes uto defining a function
vapid jay
How to start freelance?
white karma
Put yourself out there
indigo sleet
That should probably be removed. <@&267629731250176001>
Shoebot with captcha bypass tool ( 👍 it's gone )
rare sand
!warn @mint pumice do not post urls to commercial sneakerbots here.
inner wrenBOT
:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @mint pumice.
rare sand
@icy flume don't ask about sneakerbotting in this community please. it's unethical and almost always violates terms.
mint pumice
Woops sorry, didn't even know sneakerbots were a thing until today!
zenith inlet
@regal wedge should move this here
regal wedge
okay
zenith inlet
if you get into machining metal as a trade, you can then use that to pay for college later on
it'll also be great if you want to do robotics
because you'll eventually be able to build parts for 3d printers, other tools, or robots
burnt tiger
@radiant island
How many python certifications do you guys think are a standard requirement for an entry level job?
From conversing with various professionals in the software development industry and in my own dealings with recruiters, certificates are very far from necessary. They can certainly help, but I would recommend focusing more on building up experience and a portfolio of presentable projects that you've either significantly contributed to or authored. That's going to serve as directly presentable code and give you far more real-world experience compared to spending a bunch of money on misc certificates.
That being said, in certain specializations (especially security), the certificates can become significantly more valuable. I wouldn't go too out of your way for them though for a standard entry-level position in software development.
static trout
koi English k alawa oe koi language jaanta hai?
marsh wind
@static trout Enlgish th is the language of this server, please do use it. as far as I know there are no language specific channels here
!rule 4
inner wrenBOT
unkempt cloud
Ironic.
marsh wind
omg I can't spell today 😂
peak yoke
vapid jay
hey guys
can anyone give me tips for a google online challenge
its 30 minutes mcq , on C,C++,OOPs,data structure and algorithm
vast shoal
That's a very broad set of subjects. I don't think there's much specific advice that can be given. You probably need to be generally familiar with all of those subjects to do well.
There's a lot of tutorials and courses for each of those areas available online, though.
Just a quick google away.
mint fractal
are you guys all programmers?
vast shoal
@mint fractal Well, if you're here, you've probably doing some programming, so that makes you a programmer. Some people here are professionals, others are hobbyists.
@vapid jay Multiple choice questionnaire?
Again, I don't think there's much prep you can do other than to study and learn those subjects.
vast shoal
Probably not.
I think they are fairly selective.
And it's hard to do anything useful in a professional set only knowing Python and nothing else. There are a lot of other technologies, languages and protocols that you tend to use in concert with Python.
Like, web technologies and frameworks, networking and protocols, databases, etc.
shadow moss
Google demands you know the fundamental of programming
since they use a ton of languages
just about any major language, they use it somewhere
main hound
hey peeps! honestly, i'm not sure where to proceed at this point. i'm thinking of going into webdev field in the future, but not sure what to proceed with. i have 1+ year of Python experience, some basic CSS/HTML/JS experience, but then i discovered that in my country, there are not many django junior positions. mostly, it's php, but i'm not sure, whether to practice it or go with JS and Python, because it seems to go down in popularity. anyone experienced in the field has any advices?
there seems to be much more PHP junior positions, but you never can be sure if it just gets thrown away or not
shadow moss
JS is always good
mint pumice
@main hound JS is always a good bet, esp react/react native/angular/Vue/nodejs.
Rather than worry about language, build up skills in different paradigms of programming. If you are skilled with Python classes and you can build a good OO system with expressive classes, then you'll be able to do work even in Java or C++ with minimal effort to get up to speed with the language
main hound
@mint pumice yeah, i know that "language doesn't matter", but every lang has it's own quirks, own libs, etc. i'm kinda fine with python OOP and generally able to write somewhat working things in it. the problem is, that many companies go after "trending" stuff, not working stuff. so this confuses me a lot on where to move. thanks for advices though! will consider diving deeper into JS.
mint pumice
@main hound yeah but if you stay abreast of trends, you'll last longer than trends. True that certain libs, quirks exist in all langs. But once you build your expertise in a specific niche of programming, then all that matters. For now, you should lay good foundations. Just my advice. Take it or leave it
main hound
yeah, that sure was useful! thank you very much.
mint pumice
@main hound welcome of course :+1:
hardy briar
guys, any tips on starting freelance? i have zero work experience, what do i need?
white karma
A portfolio
hardy briar
like, on github?
what kind of things do i need to have?
i want to start low, i'm learning python for 7 or 8 months and i'm going well
but i want to take simpler services to start
to feel how it's like to freelance
hardy briar
i'm from Brazil, here it's pretty flexible
i have a tax number for my business, it's alright
i just need to know how it works to get starting level jobs
but having an porfolio makes sense
unkempt cloud
@hardy briar If you're gonna go to the trouble to show PyCharm on your Discord profile status, you should know that just about every major IDE (JetBrains, Eclipse, VS Code, Visual Studio) on the market has support for Discord RPC.
indigo sleet
Well none of them have support for it, they just all have third party plugins for it
zenith inlet
@unkempt cloud can you elaborate on that?
wind hinge
Ohhow to show first thingie i was always wondering? But with VS
slim solar
Hello
everyone
I am looking for a software job
Anyone can let know me how can I get it in this server?
vast shoal
@slim solar Do you have any experience with software development whatsoever?
slim solar
Yeah I have rich experience in web and mobile app dev
And I have experienced bot development
Such as trading bot or discord bot
sick mist
vast shoal
Yeah, we don't really allow for recruiting or job searching on the server, although general career advice is fine. As @sick mist said, check out the links in the pinned messages.
vapid jay
Is TU Delft a good University to go to?
lofty timber
Any one working as django developer