#career-advice | Python | Page 326

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 7:03 PM

#

Sweet, decided to give it my best and stick it out with the Upwork client despite the unreasonable requests. I delivered everything and then some and gained a glaring 5 star review!

indigo sleet Jan 7, 2020, 7:16 PM

#

And paid, I hope

#

Haha

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 7:18 PM

#

Lol in 5 days. Not sure why upwork has a waiting period after a client approves the work

cunning valve Jan 7, 2020, 7:21 PM

#

Hi

drowsy hearth Jan 7, 2020, 9:43 PM

#

anyone else has hard time coding without caffeine ? IT feels to me I can't function without it

radiant moon Jan 7, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

pretty much

#

I never really drank coffee until my curent (relatively high-pressure) job

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 9:46 PM

#

Nope, I used to drink coffee excessively though

drowsy hearth Jan 7, 2020, 9:47 PM

#

I have a hard time being productive without it. It feels like my brain is still sleep.

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Lol that's why I quit

dry sapphire Jan 7, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

I don't do caffeine at all

drowsy hearth Jan 7, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

Too fair I drink every morning.

#

except today because I ran out lol

dry sapphire Jan 7, 2020, 9:48 PM

#

it doesn't really seem to affect my productivity

#

it destroys my sleep cycle though.

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 9:49 PM

#

Not drinking caffeine destroys your sleep cycle?

dry sapphire Jan 7, 2020, 9:50 PM

#

no, drinking coffee does

mild zenith Jan 7, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

Just have to make sure you don't drink any past like.... 1 pm

radiant moon Jan 7, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

I've been inspired to make some coffee in my french press

#

I have not, however, been inspired to wash out my coffee cup

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 10:01 PM

#

How hard is it to convince a client to switch frameworks. I mostly don’t like using PhP but feel as though so many potential clients only want to use Wordpress. Should I just learn Wordpress? Or try to convince them that there are better options?

shadow moss Jan 7, 2020, 10:06 PM

#

you won't

#

They likely want it because someone else will be maintaining it

#

framework choice is commonly a business decision, not a technical one

torpid bolt Jan 7, 2020, 10:10 PM

#

i do drink coffee, but what i do need to be productive is water

drowsy hearth Jan 7, 2020, 10:17 PM

#

I drink preworkout which just green coffee bean extracts

marsh wind Jan 7, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

caffein is addictive kinda like cigarets or drugs

#

just not so bad. if you realy feed addicted you should 100% stop driking coffee (taking any caffein) for like 3 weeks or so, that normally is enough to restore caffein receptors

#

then you can start drinking it again but in more reasonable quantites (limit yourself to 2-3 cups/day, no caffein after 3PM)

#

I think we are trailing into offtop here

hushed kestrel Jan 7, 2020, 10:59 PM

#

Caffiene has a half life of 8 hours which is why it sucks

#

So if you are taking in 400 grams (3-4 cups) at the end of the day when you are trying to sleep you still have 1 cup of coffee in you.

#

I personally take Caffeine pills.

#

You should never go above 400 mg TBH. Also, you can tell if you are addicted if the days you aren't working /drinking coffee, you get a headache. (Get advil obviously. or whatever thing works for you)

#

I personally use caffeine to get a boost in the morning and don't drink anything else throughout the day.

mint citrus Jan 8, 2020, 1:16 AM

#

who drinks 3-4 cups? I always drink only one and dont drink any on the weekends

hushed kestrel Jan 8, 2020, 1:21 AM

#

A lot of people do.

#

I mean, some people have 4 shots of espresso too

#

It's not usually all at once

#

but over like, 1-4 hours

mint citrus Jan 8, 2020, 1:21 AM

#

thats pretty bad

hushed kestrel Jan 8, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

Hmm Yeah.

mint citrus Jan 8, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

they prob load up their coffee with sugars tho

hushed kestrel Jan 8, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

EH

#

Probably not

mint citrus Jan 8, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

esp the females

hushed kestrel Jan 8, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

....

mint citrus Jan 8, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

idk thats what ive seen

hushed kestrel Jan 8, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

...Leaving that comment behind

mint citrus Jan 8, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

I have yet to see a female drink normal coffee. not trying to be sexist

hushed kestrel Jan 8, 2020, 1:22 AM

#

Right

#

Well

#

ANyway

#

at some point, it costs too much to put creamer in coffee

#

and people get used to drinking it black

#

I drink coffee black because I get good fucking coffee

mint citrus Jan 8, 2020, 1:23 AM

#

^

#

thats how it should be

#

starbucks has taken over tho

vestal shore Jan 8, 2020, 1:24 AM

#

have you had the death wish coffee

#

thats some good beans

hushed kestrel Jan 8, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

Yeah

mint citrus Jan 8, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

never had

hushed kestrel Jan 8, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

It's mostly branding

real python Jan 8, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

Um

vestal shore Jan 8, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

i had a co worker bring some in and it was very good

real python Jan 8, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

Can we shoot the shit in an off topic channel

vestal shore Jan 8, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

sorry 🙂

mint citrus Jan 8, 2020, 1:25 AM

#

hmmmCoffeeSmile

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 2:59 AM

#

what should my next step be to do if I :
•Want 2 continue to learn python since It’s good for beginners
•Want to use arduino since I want to get a job as a computer engineer, but don’t know C yet
•want to Learn how to do algorithms and syntax

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 3:10 AM

#

@vapid jay
->its possible to do all 3 simultaneously

#

but depends on how much time you have

#

continue learning python i'd say. i would say python is much more complicated than C when it comes to syntax and features, but C is pretty bare bones.

#

but in terms of usage, C is more complicated because it is strictly written and you have to familiarize yourself with pointers and malloc()

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 3:16 AM

#

How long would it take to learn python and C simultaneously? @dark salmon

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 3:17 AM

#

it’s not possible to become a pro in either of them in a short duration of time

#

i would say focus on python more, and learn C on the side

#

python will allow you to make complicated applications faster and easier than C

#

i guess a good way to get started with doing C in a meaningful way is maybe pick up a computer graphics related project

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 3:21 AM

#

I guess by learn I mean learn the basics at least @dark salmon

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 3:21 AM

#

you can learn basics of C within 2 days

#

or even a day

open patio Jan 8, 2020, 3:21 AM

#

if you wanna learn some C and Python, i think cs50x is the way to go
link: https://online-learning.harvard.edu/course/cs50-introduction-computer-science
this course covers everything from concepts in C (pointers, algorithms, data structures) to python (web dev, and other things)

#

great course and professor

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 3:23 AM

#

like by basics i mean syntax and semantics

#

i don’t know how to measure progress with C, but in python if you can use static classes and class methods then you are past the beginner stage at the very least

#

for C a major milestone would be to develop an intuitive and deep understanding of pointers

#

and how and when to use them

#

if you want to learn algorithms and data structures learning them with C is a good strategy

#

because C has very few primitive data types and structures so you pretty much have to implement it from scratch

#

learning to implement data structures in C will alone give you a fairly decent grounding of the language

#

and will help you understand the language as well

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 3:28 AM

#

Is basics of C enough to be able to do arduino beginner kits and stuff like that? @dark salmon

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 3:29 AM

#

yeah probably

#

arduino programming isn’t that involved

#

you can arduino with python too

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

How would I be able to do that?

#

I want to do it with C too but how would I be able to do it with python? Just curious

#

@dark salmon

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 3:42 AM

#

https://realpython.com/arduino-python/

toxic lagoon Jan 8, 2020, 3:45 AM

#

What are examples of large projects that can be official apps made up of smaller projects that can be their own apps. Reason is because I want to work on small projects that will literally come together but I need help finding project ideas

heavy plover Jan 8, 2020, 4:35 AM

#

large projects which are official apps which use other apps is what you're asking

#

A lot of apps use docker and shit for instance

#

but that's like, microservices

#

I mean shit, the JVM is technically a major project which many many people over the years have written code for and helped optimize

#

and if you download something that needs the JVM and you don't have it they install it

#

but like, idk if that's what you're talking about really

#

you aren't building the next Docker though probably 😝

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 4:39 AM

#

You could use Django @toxic lagoon . That's literally the exact reason people use it. Because of it's modular design and ability to create one large app out of other smaller apps that can also be used in other projects.

heavy plover Jan 8, 2020, 4:39 AM

#

yeah it sounds like you're just talking about having reusable code

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 4:39 AM

#

An example would be something like Instagram

heavy plover Jan 8, 2020, 4:39 AM

#

like, large chunks of it though

#

Instagram desktop and iOS share code iirc

#

both use django

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 4:39 AM

#

Instagram has live video, messaging, stories, etc

#

They also use Django

heavy plover Jan 8, 2020, 4:40 AM

#

yeah cuz i think a lot of that is just API based

#

which is probably what you'd end up doing to do what you're asking Woz, build components with their own API's

#

and then you can mix and match

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 5:58 AM

#

how often do things related to distributed systems show up in interviews

radiant moon Jan 8, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

depends on the job, obviously

#

where I work: a lot

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

where do you work

#

or i mean

#

what kind of work

radiant moon Jan 8, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

distributed systems 🙂

#

it's a big system that monitors a giant network, and automatically fixes problems

eager sorrel Jan 8, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

hi guys

toxic lagoon Jan 8, 2020, 12:59 PM

#

What are examples of dream projects/ unique projects more forwards torward career that you were able to make from old code?

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 1:23 PM

#

can anyone here take a look at my resume maybe? understandable if its not allowed

marsh wind Jan 8, 2020, 1:42 PM

#

I believe it is allowed. So you can just post it here and whoever is free and competent enough can take a look

rare sand Jan 8, 2020, 1:49 PM

#

don't dox yourself, though

dark salmon Jan 8, 2020, 2:14 PM

#

ok that works, thank you!

clear cipher Jan 8, 2020, 2:41 PM

#

I have been looking for a new job for well over a year now, I have applied for probably over 500+ places, and I cannot find a job. I have a bachelors in computer science, I honestly don't know what to even do anymore

#

All entry level req 2-5 years of experience

meager oriole Jan 8, 2020, 2:42 PM

#

where are you based?

clear cipher Jan 8, 2020, 2:43 PM

#

Ohio/United States/ Midwest

#

I have been applying across multiple states

meager oriole Jan 8, 2020, 2:44 PM

#

i can't help i'm in UK

clear cipher Jan 8, 2020, 2:45 PM

#

idk what to do now. The only people who contact me really are consultants (basically army recruiters who try to abuse you)

meager oriole Jan 8, 2020, 2:46 PM

#

but is goot to get experience first

#

even if they abuse

#

but if you haven't got experience how you want to get a experienced job?

clear cipher Jan 8, 2020, 2:49 PM

#

These consultants hire you in as a contract, basically you go to a class for a month or two, then they throw you at a business. Thing is, since they sent you to their schooling, you are bound to a contract for 2 years and they take like 50% of your pay after you are done while you are under contract and if you want out you have to pay like $20,000 or something

meager oriole Jan 8, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

is the same everywhere

#

or try to start with a junior front end developer position

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 3:08 PM

#

What do you specialize in?

clear cipher Jan 8, 2020, 3:18 PM

#

Most of my work has been in software dev using OOP languages (c#/c++/java/python)

#

I wouldn't say I specialize in it though

stray tundra Jan 8, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

Hi, Im a teen and I have been into programming since I was 12. I know python 3, javascript, HTML, php, C++ and a bit of C#.

I largely prefer python since it's the one I use almost daily, I prefer backend and it's the one I've come to "master" the most. I also know my fair shair of pentesting (but not website-related). I've also learnt machine learning and Im now starting to learn deep learning.

I want to have a passive income which will help pay my student bills and food. So here's my question: which field of programming would you guys recommend me to get into?

So far I've thought of: Android Game Development, Website Development or just a plain start-up.

I am willing to spend the time and effort to learn anything you guys recommend me as far as it'll help me reach my goal.

Thank you very much for reading.

zenith inlet Jan 8, 2020, 7:28 PM

#

are you at a university rn?

stray tundra Jan 8, 2020, 7:29 PM

#

@zenith inlet Not rn, but in less than half a year I will be

#

I want to help my parents as much as I can with this

#

I know I could get a low-wage job but I'd rather do something from the stuff I've learnt even if I earn less.

zenith inlet Jan 8, 2020, 7:32 PM

#

it might be hard to get a job rn without a decent portfolio

#

once you're in school though, that can change

#

are you in the US?

stray tundra Jan 8, 2020, 7:33 PM

#

No, UK

#

Rather than a job, I was thinking more something like a side-project which would earn me passive income.

zenith inlet Jan 8, 2020, 7:34 PM

#

ok

#

i dont know if i can give good advice on the college part then

stray tundra Jan 8, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

Oh ok, thanks anyways

zenith inlet Jan 8, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

i'd consider looking at hackernews if you're really interested in business

#

https://news.ycombinator.com

#

they're very SF-heavy at times

#

but you might be able to find some stuff about building side projects that are profitable

#

check the threads they have, or look for archives

stray tundra Jan 8, 2020, 7:42 PM

#

Thanks! I didn't know about this site. I'll be sure to give it a thorough search

zenith inlet Jan 8, 2020, 7:44 PM

#

just keep in mind that they're VC oriented

#

imo a lot of VC mindset doesn't lead to sustainable businesses

high coyote Jan 8, 2020, 7:47 PM

#

To me, HN is a classic example of the news site problem, where once you read them discuss something you actually know about you realise they may have strong opinions but don't actually know what they're talking about :<

#

I mean, there's some good content there, but don't take everything at face value

zenith inlet Jan 8, 2020, 7:56 PM

#

yeah

#

thats probably not as strongly worded as it should be tbh

#

but better than i put it

#

@stray tundra

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 8:47 PM

#

has anyone ever gotten a job offer w/o meeting people onsite

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

All of my jobs have been purely online.

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

upwork or full time salary

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 8:48 PM

#

Nothing long term though, just small gigs.

#

I've only had one job on upwork everything else was just finding clients through forums/facebook/discord etc

#

And by small I only mean in terms of project length not pay.

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 8:49 PM

#

gotcha not trying to be rude i mean specifically full time offers from corporations

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 8:50 PM

#

You can get full time salary jobs on upwork though.

gilded valley Jan 8, 2020, 8:50 PM

#

I think corporations practically always have an on site - I know some places will even fly you out for an interview

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 8:51 PM

#

There are some agencies that I've seen on indeed that hire solely remote workers for long term projects/full time

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 8:52 PM

#

ive been flown out before

#

was jw

radiant moon Jan 8, 2020, 8:52 PM

#

@vapid jay sort of. I interviewed, and the interviewers decided that I was a smart guy, and that someone should hire me; just not them. Then later I got a call from the hiring manager of a different team, who'd seen the interview notes; he called me on the phone, we talked for half an hour, and he said "when can you start"

vapid jay Jan 8, 2020, 8:52 PM

#

i just had a video interview and was like hmm maybe i can get an offer without going in but then i realized it wasnt even a video

#

lol @radiant moon sounds like a good deal

#

my last interview went the opposite, kinda

#

another team saw my resume and wanted to interview me at the same time when i went out for the onsite

#

then neither team hired me

pulsar hedge Jan 8, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

alright im back with my questions

#

if its possible can I get someone in a porgramming feild to answer these questions

#

Q#1 What is your job currently? What are the things you have to do in this certain job?
Q#2: Did you have a passion for programming while in high school or was it something you picked up as you got into university?
Q#3: Did You take Computer Science as one of your high school courses?, If yes did it help as you went to university? If no do you wish you did take Computer science
Q#4: How was your transition into university from high school? Was it harder than you expected? Why do you think your transition was like this?
Q#5: How did you come upon your current job? Was the hunt for a job in your field hard? If yes why? If no Why?
Q#6 Do you believe your job field changed over time? If so why do you believe this?
Q#7. Do you enjoy what your doing today, and do you have any advice on how to get into what you’re currently doing?

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:38 PM

#

Site Reliability Engineer, make sure devs don't push something bad in production and when they do, fix it or yell at them

#

High School and continued through University

#

Yes, No

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:39 PM

#

can you fix and yell

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

sometimes yes

#

depending

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

sorry continue

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 10:41 PM

#

Freelance web developer. Trading algorithm developer.
Nope, didn't get into programming until I started my first online business on shopify and wanted to customize it more than it would let me.
No.
....Wasn't studying CS
Yes, study.

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:42 PM

#

2) High School and continued through University
3) Yes, No
4) ROugh, few HS Computer Science course prepare you for college
5) Through Discord but not this Discord, it's been hard and easy, I'm much older then most people in discord so this is my 10+ job
6) Since I started before smart phone were common thing, sure it has, cloud has changed a bunch
7) No, get out while you still can```

#

How did trading algoritm work for you Python?

pulsar hedge Jan 8, 2020, 10:43 PM

#

thank you

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:44 PM

#

ColdEmber, at my current position, I pretty much have to make developers hate me, dark side demands it

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:45 PM

#

i've read half of Google SRE book, i wonder how it works outside Google

#

it's lightyears from practice i see at my job

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 10:45 PM

#

I started creating simple stop loss/ take profits trading bots in 2017 on cryptocurrency exchanges. Then started creating them for people in cryptocurrency communities. After that started to get jobs creating stock trading algorithms.

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:46 PM

#

I don't work at Google either

#

PythonKoder, you couldn't get hired by one of big trading houses?

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

it was kinda my question :p

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

SRE various at very places

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

Never applied

#

I'm not in to working for a company long term

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

ColdEmber, rough most of time, it's sitting around in design reviews going "What about X, Y, Z?"

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

@little prairie i always thought that doing simple trading algo, you get targeted by other people bots aiming to exploit your bot :/

north turtle Jan 8, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

Hello

#

I am new.

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

or duct taping some ancient application back together because no one will work on it because it's supposed to be decommed except for this one thing and no one has developed a replacement

#

because revenue!

north turtle Jan 8, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

Is there a place where I can discuss about python?

gilded valley Jan 8, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

#python-discussion

north turtle Jan 8, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

To get better at it?

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

#python-discussion

north turtle Jan 8, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

Thank you so much.

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

ColdEmber, rough most of time, it's sitting around in design reviews going "What about X, Y, Z?"

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

I've never run into anything like that. Would take some serious repetitive movement to even detect someone elses bots.

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

How do people react to you in the long term

#

don't they become adversarial of you ?

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

they do

#

but hiding from me means deploys go no where

#

I'm gatekeeper for deploys

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:50 PM

#

I have no power at my current job, i just say "this is a terrible idea" most of the time and explain why and they do it anyway, then they act surprised or worse, they act like it's the natural order of things that things breaks all the time and it can't be help

#

i'm eating my desk most of the time

north turtle Jan 8, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

No one in Python discussion.

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

yes this is

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

but i'm now known as "the complainer"

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

ColdEmber, revenue, revenue revenue!

#

it's why I say "Get out while you still can"

#

only way to fix "Things breaks all the time" is everyone to be like "40 hours this week, I'm done. Oh, that dumpster fire, stopped caring"

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

erh they just hire the me from 1 year ago to care in their place :p

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

my point

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

but yeah i see it

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

like I use iOS Outlook application for work email because it has quiet hours

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

but still, i'm just wondering how to manage the human part of being the one that block/warns

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

they are set from 1800->0900

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

that's 9h active

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:54 PM

#

sure

#

I see stuff before I leave

#

and slight after

#

I want to be aware of what I'm walking into

#

and any last minute departure emails

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:55 PM

#

just wondering how much email do you get on average per day

#

and how much are actually useful

north turtle Jan 8, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

Hey everyone

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:56 PM

#

not a ton

#

100

#

BTW, I just lost Outlook so I don't have ANY mail on my phone

#

because we converted to GSuite from Exchange and GMail for iOS doesn't have quiet hours and I refused to be abused by my phone

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

yeah i understand

#

i get around 100 emails a day too it's exhausting

#

i don't read them all tbh

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

I work at $megacorp so I can get away with "Don't like it, fire me"

#

GSuite was decent job of filtering important from unimportant

#

I get probably 250 a day, most of those get labels (ugh.....(

#

I'm very critical of GSuite, that's whole another not python topic

pulsar hedge Jan 8, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

@shadow moss is it cool if i ask you why was college hard? Was it that you didn't understand or another reason?

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:00 PM

#

bad habits I picked up from High School

#

among other stuff I don't feel like discussing

pulsar hedge Jan 8, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

and my assignment says I should ask you any advice you would have for a person like me to get into your field of work

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

If you are American, my recommendation would be Community College, don't get buried under debt, part of my problem

pulsar hedge Jan 8, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

What would you say I should do to help me prepare for College or University ?

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

Besides not joking "Don't", graduate High School, graduate with college with any degree and apply to a bunch of jobs until you get one, stay there for year and half then move on

#

There isn't much to prepare you, College/University is like High School with more freedom and parties, if you are not doing great now, it's unlikely it will improve in college, if you are doing great now, then keep doing it, University is really about "Can you buckle down and do grunt work we tell you to?"

#

my best advice is truly community college esp if you have take out a ton of loans

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

First time i see someone advising community college (i'm non US), are they okay to get a job and skills?

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:06 PM

#

1) Graduate with bachelor maximum
2) As little debt as possible
3) In as generic of a major you can
4) With as much real world experience as you can get```

#

ColdEmber, because most people have to take out crazy loans in US for college, Community Colleges are generally much cheaper and closer to home for many, thus your expenses are low if you can continue to live at home thus keeping debt low

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

In my country, our University are free, but they don't all have same funds/reputation, often during my cursus, the professor had to pay themselves resources to teach and other stuff. In the end, i can't say i learnt much. How does it compare?

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

and Community colleges are done in 2 years, if you did well in Community College, you can transfer to University to get Bachelors

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

ah okay, college doesn't give you a bachelor

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

college gives you bachelor

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 11:08 PM

#

sweatcat confusing

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

I never understood why most people don't do their first two years in CC if it is cheaper than University.

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

In US, University is collection of Colleges, I just use University to seperate it from Community Colleges

#

PythonKoder, because "That's not that way we did it" /boomer

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 11:09 PM

#

I know In state public Uni's can be very cheap in some cases so I guess then it makes sense

#

But otherwise it doesn't

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

Reputation/Fear of Missing Out i guess? Maybe ratio of "outsiders"?

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

In United States, after High School, There is Associates (2 years, optional) -> Bachelor (4 Years) -> Masters (~6) -> Doctor (~8)

#

Associates come from Community College/University, they are rarely provided by Universities people think of

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 11:10 PM

#

I mean if you are like Ivy League material or something, sure go there for the connections.

#

Or even MIT material then go there for the labs.

#

But I know people paying 30k a year for a Business Admin degree

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:11 PM

#

Sure, if you are Ivy league or Elite Engineering school material, go there

#

for you youngins getting screwed by Boomers, Do 2 years in Community College, live at home and maybe work

#

after 2 years, you graduate with associates

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

is working a viable option? what is the volume of the courses there?

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:14 PM

#

PythonKoder, so I looked it up, for local community college in my well known massive city, yearly tuition for normal full time class load is 5610/USD/Yr

#

for local University in my city, it's 11,300/USD/Yr

#

and in United States, many universities are not located in major cities so you need to include room and board

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 11:15 PM

#

Yea, so in cases like those, Grants could cover most all of the tuition.

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

That sounds commie

#

📎 tumblr_p7uf9wn7T11uyg4r8o2_540.png

#

ColdEmber, Maybe, my point is you are likely living at home so maybe that high school job you had you keep into college

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 11:17 PM

#

Grants are good IMO. Beats student loans anyday

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:18 PM

#

PYthon, are you American?

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 11:18 PM

#

Yes

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:18 PM

#

What Grants are you talking about?

#

They are pretty rare

#

most people end up taking out loans

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 11:18 PM

#

Pell Grant for example

#

Doesn't cover everything but added with scholarships etc it could work

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:19 PM

#

Pell Grant doesn't cover everything

#

scholarship and grants probably cover maybe 20-30% of college students

#

most either their parents will need to pay for them or they will need loans

#

thus if loans are required, get as little as you can

#

Thus my recommendation of "Community College, get associates, transfer to university"

pulsar hedge Jan 8, 2020, 11:20 PM

#

@shadow moss last question: What did you specifically study in college? How long were you in college? and Did you enjoy what you were learning?

little prairie Jan 8, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

Idk, scholarships are pretty easy to get there's scholarships for literally doing nothing in some cases. Like there's Gay scholarships, women scholarships, minority scholarships, etc

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

At the time it was called Information Science (weaker computer science), 3 years, Yes

pulsar hedge Jan 8, 2020, 11:21 PM

#

Alright thank you so much for helping really appreciate it

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:22 PM

#

Python, I tried, it was harder esp for amount of work, like write an essay, maybe you get selected, get 1k per year

#

I think I applied for 7 scholarships, got 2, my parents kicked in a ton, luckily I walked away with very little debt

#

but I didn't realize the privledge, but I'm extremely damn lucky

shut geyser Jan 8, 2020, 11:24 PM

#

noice!

shadow moss Jan 8, 2020, 11:26 PM

#

they were tiny scholarships

#

like I think they covered 1.5k yearly

#

750 a piece each

dry sapphire Jan 9, 2020, 12:26 AM

#

how much does a bachelor's degree cost in the US?

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 12:31 AM

#

Depends

feral oar Jan 9, 2020, 12:59 AM

#

Can't see me paying that much for a paper

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 1:05 AM

#

but it's a useful piece of paper: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0691196451

#

it signals to potential employers that you're intelligent, conscientious, and diligent.

#

It does not, however, mean that you actually learned anything useful

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 1:24 AM

#

Depending on a lot of factors but likely 70-80k depending

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 1:31 AM

#

Can always find a school that closed down around the year you would have graduated due to lack of funding and say you went there. 70k save. 😂

mint citrus Jan 9, 2020, 1:32 AM

#

a BS doesnt cost 70k

#

a masters maybe

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 1:33 AM

#

Depends on where. One of my Family members went to Georgetown and paid over 100k

#

For a BS

#

When factoring in supplies and housing

mint citrus Jan 9, 2020, 1:33 AM

#

he went out of state?

#

oh housing is something else

#

has nothing to do with the degree

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 1:34 AM

#

The tuition alone was around 120k I believe he said but he had a few scholarships.

mint citrus Jan 9, 2020, 1:34 AM

#

It does depend on where you get it and if in the US you are out of state or not

#

mine was like 20k

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 1:35 AM

#

Crazy part is overall I make more than he does every year

mint citrus Jan 9, 2020, 1:35 AM

#

well the degree doesnt get you the jobs

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 1:38 AM

#

Definitely doesn’t, although he does have a better network than I do from his connections made in College.

#

And I think that’s where prestigious Uni’s really make the difference.

mint citrus Jan 9, 2020, 1:39 AM

#

yeah thats true

#

the education all the same mostly

dry sapphire Jan 9, 2020, 1:46 AM

#

wow

#

that's a lot of $$

#

for education

mint citrus Jan 9, 2020, 1:48 AM

#

education is expensive

#

cause no one wants to pay for it

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 2:07 AM

#

Woah!! So Upwork is actually automatically archiving proposals from non monthly subscribing Freelancers. These guys are something else

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Clients/My-proposals-are-archived/m-p/547356#M39060

dark salmon Jan 9, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

in a python interview

#

or an interview in general

#

which is in python

#

if you're asked to reverse a list in place

#

if i use .reverse()

#

would it be illegal

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 2:10 AM

#

In most cases they would want you to do it manually

dry sapphire Jan 9, 2020, 2:10 AM

#

not illegal, but probably not the point

#

of the interview

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 2:24 AM

#

I mean, reversing isn't hard

dry sapphire Jan 9, 2020, 2:27 AM

#

nobody said it was, I think

magic belfry Jan 9, 2020, 2:57 AM

#

Just to add to that cost of a degree thing above, if someone is evaluating the worth, just be sure to know that if you start taking on debt to go for the degree, finish.

#

Otherwise it costs a lot more to drop out, work for a few years, and go back

mint citrus Jan 9, 2020, 2:57 AM

#

didnt go into debt thankfully

#

work and go to uni. it sucks but its worth it to graduate without debt

magic belfry Jan 9, 2020, 2:58 AM

#

is in a lot of debt due to doing exactly that

#

not what you said, what i said

mint citrus Jan 9, 2020, 2:58 AM

#

yeah i figured

dry sapphire Jan 9, 2020, 4:37 AM

#

I guess the situation in my country is quite different

heavy plover Jan 9, 2020, 4:59 AM

#

at work today

#

get yelled at for using sick time instead of pto

#

also

#

several coworkers wanna go get manni/pedi so they were gonna work from home friday

#

manager yelled at them saying no we aren't doing that anymore

#

mfw they all say "we'll start looking for new jobs then"

#

sadKEK

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 5:49 AM

#

What's with clients on Upwork posting jobs saying things like. Looking for a Full Stack Wix/Shopify/Squarespace developer?

#

Or more, what developers are telling them they are doing full stack development by editing widgets on Wix

primal tendon Jan 9, 2020, 5:51 AM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

Hey I have a question to ask, if your really good at data science can you be worth a remote position if it is entry level?

#

It is because data science isnt as popular as software engineer so there might not be a lot of data science jobs in your area

#

Because if there is no data science jobs around your area and let's just say you apply to a job but you say that you do not have the money to travel to that job.

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

Would depend on if the company is comfortable with it. I'm sure there are remote jobs in data science.

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 6:41 AM

#

So like I figured out data science pays more than software engineering as of Jan 2020 it pays 6k more.

#

But there are more software engineering jobs than data science.

shut geyser Jan 9, 2020, 7:20 AM

#

Where did you get that information?

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 9:04 AM

#

Google basically

shut geyser Jan 9, 2020, 9:38 AM

#

Data science is very broad term from people doing business analysis on excell and tableau from people creating new algorithms with everything in between, i would take thoses information with a lot of salt

mint citrus Jan 9, 2020, 9:40 AM

#

🧂

shut geyser Jan 9, 2020, 9:58 AM

#

Interview woo! But they propose one date in 4 working day

dark salmon Jan 9, 2020, 12:38 PM

#

u should always focus on being a good software engineer before anything, i feel

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 12:59 PM

#

Hello I have a question to ask professionals, what websites have the toughest coding problems to where if you can solve them you will stand out in a application?

craggy wave Jan 9, 2020, 1:04 PM

#

To be honest, if you want to stand out in applications because of your projects, build up a good portfolio in the domain you will be applying in. Let's say that you're going to apply for full-stack developer jobs, having a portfolio with actual projects that include all moving parts in the area of full-stack development is going to tell them much more about you than your solution to a programming puzzle.

vast shoal Jan 9, 2020, 1:07 PM

#

Yeah, a portfolio will be much more representative of your actual abilities and the work you will be doing once you're hired.

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 1:45 PM

#

But isnt hard leetcode problems harder than actual projects?

craggy wave Jan 9, 2020, 1:51 PM

#

Let's say I want to potentially hire you, then I want to know if you have the skills to manage a project that's larger than a few files in a structured way with code that's readable and well-formatted. Solving a few puzzles isn't really indicative of the skills you actually need.

left escarp Jan 9, 2020, 1:52 PM

#

is it worth to create and send a portfolio while applying to universities (like the projects I had have and also contributing to open source) for CS/engeneering branch(s)

#

Do universities actully consider those?

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 1:53 PM

#

Ok what websites have the toughest projects I can work on?

left escarp Jan 9, 2020, 1:53 PM

#

advent of code i guess

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 1:54 PM

#

Ok so if I can solve hard projects in advent of code and show my work on my github do I have a good chance for a entry level position?

#

With SQL and another programming language

hushed kestrel Jan 9, 2020, 2:01 PM

#

It's all about you compared to your competition

#

What Ves Zappa said would make you a pretty strong candidate

#

Showing fundamental project management skills is probably more important than being able to solve a technical problem

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 2:02 PM

#

Does advent of code have very tough projects?

#

What website has the toughest projects?

hushed kestrel Jan 9, 2020, 2:03 PM

#

You can find some problems no one has solved in knuth art of computer programming

#

'toughest projects' is a pretty horrible metric to get into a junior position

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

I’m thinking of creating a pypi package to gain recognition. Would you say this is a good idea?

open patio Jan 9, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

i'm thinking about that too

hushed kestrel Jan 9, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

Good idea with respect to what ?

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 2:05 PM

#

Does advent of code have hard projects?

hushed kestrel Jan 9, 2020, 2:06 PM

#

If you are looking to be a consultant, maybe, for a junior dev role? There are probably better uses of time

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 2:08 PM

#

I just want to be able to have ‘Creator of X python package’ and have something researchable. I’m thinking of doing boilerplates to start. Like Django and React, and Flask and react.

hushed kestrel Jan 9, 2020, 2:09 PM

#

For the purposes of what?

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 2:09 PM

#

It’s a good 45 minute setup otherwise

#

For the purpose of faster set up

hushed kestrel Jan 9, 2020, 2:09 PM

#

'faster set up?'

#

If you want to do it just to do it, that's w/e

#

Maybe this isn't the channel to discuss this

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 2:09 PM

#

A package to have Django and react out of the gate

hushed kestrel Jan 9, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

I understand what you say you want to do

#

I am asking 'why'

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 2:10 PM

#

Because it’s a very tedious process otherwise that takes away from development time

#

It’s actually for personal use but I feel like other people would want to use it also

gilded valley Jan 9, 2020, 2:11 PM

#

Yeah, a Flask/Django + React set up is pretty standard, but at the moment you have to set them both up manually - I'd probably use something like that if there was a reputable one floating about

hushed kestrel Jan 9, 2020, 2:11 PM

#

Then this isn't the right channel for it

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 4:15 PM

#

Hey! I have a silly doubt 😶

#

Do android developers, ios developer, web developer all come under the category of software developer

mild zenith Jan 9, 2020, 4:18 PM

#

I would assume so.

marsh wind Jan 9, 2020, 4:21 PM

#

as far as I know software dev is very generic term, so I think yes.

open patio Jan 9, 2020, 4:23 PM

#

they all develop software, so i would think so

ashen crystal Jan 9, 2020, 4:23 PM

#

anyone carry out regular interviews? I'm wondering about your process, wrt scoring candidates and such. Anything around team-fit questions could be interesting too

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 4:28 PM

#

I sit in on interviews commonly

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 4:32 PM

#

So what do we call people who develop applications that run on a computer

#

Say "MS excel"

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 4:35 PM

#

People who made poor life decisions?

#

Programmers is accepted term

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

also "coders", "Software Design Engineers", "App Developers"

#

lotsa terms

compact perch Jan 9, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

I recall making Access macros fo no good reason...

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 4:37 PM

#

ok, then: also "nerds"

#

the reason was: it was fun

ashen crystal Jan 9, 2020, 4:38 PM

#

@shadow moss do you score them? or write any of the questions etc

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 4:40 PM

#

😂 lol why are those people so looked down upon

#

Isn't desktop app developing good?

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 4:41 PM

#

I've never seriously tried it, but I expect I'd hate it

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 4:42 PM

#

Btw is it in demand?

#

I am a fresherman & I can't decide what field should I choose 😓

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 4:53 PM

#

Desktop development is good in niche situations that base performance on computing power. For example Digital Audio Workstations, Photoshop, Adobe Premier. But for other things a Web Application makes far more sense.

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

Yes and yes

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 4:56 PM

#

yeah, what PythonKoder said

#

also, obviously, action games

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 4:59 PM

#

Desktop development is becoming niche

#

More and more is moving to browser

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:00 PM

#

Ohh

#

What is DevOps

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:01 PM

#

Not everything will go into a browser

#

But a lot will

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:02 PM

#

Considering that my career will start after 4 years of course, desktop app development doesn't seem a good choice

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:02 PM

#

Like my group rewrites some desktop apps we sell into browser apps

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

You mean making browser version of desktop apps?

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

Making browser replacements

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:03 PM

#

Okayy

#

So what do we mean by Software Engineer

#

Is he someone who develops application?

#

And if yes, then for which platform? (Desktop, Andoid, ios?)

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

They are generic terms

shut geyser Jan 9, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

Stuff in your browser too

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

Where is this line of questions going?

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 5:05 PM

#

@halcyon plank I wouldn't worry too much about those terms. If you're looking at job postings, pay attention to the skills that they list

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:06 PM

#

@radiant moon Can you explain me for whom is this job posting

📎 image0.png

#

📎 image0.png

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

probably someone who just graduated from college with a CS degree

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

You will write code

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

A Software Engineer/Developer/Architect is basically a fancy umbrella term for a programmer.

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

oh, it's for someone who has those qualifications, and thinks the job sounds interesting 🙂

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

Get coffee

#

That type of thing

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 5:07 PM

#

@halcyon plank quit asking us; just apply for it.

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

So it can be an android developer, web developer, desktop app developer anything?

radiant moon Jan 9, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

if you're lucky, when they reject you, they'll explain what qualities you lack that they're looking for.

shut geyser Jan 9, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

Nothing is impossible!

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

Any good programmer is a Software Developer/Engineer

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

I don't have a transcript yet @radiant moon 😶

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:08 PM

#

Are you a freshman?

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:09 PM

#

Yes

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:09 PM

#

You should have first semester transcript

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 5:09 PM

#

There are Android Software Developers, iOS, Pi, Arduino, etc

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:09 PM

#

I assume you got your grades

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:09 PM

#

Yah I will get it by February

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

Then apply then

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

No @shadow moss they will be given in Feb

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

It closes in June

gilded valley Jan 9, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

You can start applying for things without a transcript

#

for the most part

shadow moss Jan 9, 2020, 5:10 PM

#

Likely you won’t get it but let google tell you no

#

Worry about passing English Lit

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:14 PM

#

Uhuh! I tried applying to it but it says a transcript is mandatory

#

@shadow moss when you looked at the posting you said "you will write code". So what do you mean by it?

shut geyser Jan 9, 2020, 5:22 PM

#

What do you mean by what do you mean ?

#

You already know what code is right

#

You ask for example of what can be done ?

vapid jay Jan 9, 2020, 5:25 PM

#

Guys, if i choose Maths & English, is there any job goes with them ?

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 5:28 PM

#

Math or English teacher

#

You could get a phd in Math and have more options

shut geyser Jan 9, 2020, 5:32 PM

#

Trading/stats too ?

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:35 PM

#

Yah I ask for example

#

Like what will I write code for?

little prairie Jan 9, 2020, 5:39 PM

#

How would we know

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 5:39 PM

#

😂 oh OK sorry

#

I got pretty excited it seems 😅

shut geyser Jan 9, 2020, 5:58 PM

#

check their products, try to find out what teams are on the site you apply

#

this will give you an idea

halcyon plank Jan 9, 2020, 6:08 PM

#

Ok @shut geyser

marsh wind Jan 9, 2020, 9:58 PM

#

job ads are forbidden here @smoky ferry

smoky ferry Jan 9, 2020, 9:58 PM

#

oh my bad

#

removed ty

thick pivot Jan 9, 2020, 10:15 PM

#

d

shut geyser Jan 9, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

ask the hr person "Should i prepare anything?"

#

"oh no just a casual chat"

#

"google invite contains: "Test Skill" "

#

NICE TRY HR

little prairie Jan 10, 2020, 1:31 AM

#

What happens if I travel overseas and log on to my US Upwork account. Is this fine or can they close my account?

undone spruce Jan 10, 2020, 1:57 AM

#

@little prairie unfortunately you will be arrested immediately by local authorities and thrown in the hole without trial, trust me I had to learn this the hard way...

little prairie Jan 10, 2020, 1:58 AM

#

Lol

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 2:54 AM

#

wut

inner mesa Jan 10, 2020, 4:17 AM

#

holup

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:20 AM

#

is it worth to create and send a portfolio while applying to universities (like the projects I had have and also contributing to open source) for CS/engeneering branch(s) (undergrad)
Do universities actully consider those?

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:47 AM

#

you currently have code you have contributed to open source projects and you are applying to universities for CS/Engineering

#

yes

#

absolutely

#

that would be huge leg up for a good CS program

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:48 AM

#

okay

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:48 AM

#

something like that could possibly be the difference between a top 10 program and a state college

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:48 AM

#

should i send it in like a resume?

#

I am applying to universities abroad for undergrad so I want to maximise my chances

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:49 AM

#

wym in a resume? You should have your most important projects or all of your contributions on your resume and a link to your github that shows your activity

#

don't go beyond a 1 page resume

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:49 AM

#

I am in 12th grade now

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:49 AM

#

right, so you're a senior in high school

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:49 AM

#

yes

#

whats the difference between a resume and portfolio?

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:49 AM

#

I thought people apply in fall?

#

uh, resume is more for jobs, you're applying to colleges so I guess portfolio would be fine

#

it'll let you include more info and stuff

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

colleges ask for resumes too these days

#

so you can include a link to your portfolio in your resume

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

damn, mine did not

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

I couldnt write all my midterm exams due to health issues so I had to wait until my pre board marks so I can apply, registrations are still open

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

ahhh ok ok

#

fair

#

yeah, I would strongly recommend applying to at least 3 or 4 top CS programs if you have good grades and are already contributing to open source projects

#

I really don't know what else they would look for in a student, that's fantastic that you're doing that in high school already

#

or even that you have your own projects

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:51 AM

#

the uni's have many programs, its kinda confusing also to choose

#

yea i have done my own projects

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

Uhm, major wise I would say just go with CS unless they don't have CS and they have like CE or SE

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

https://rohanjnr.pythonanywhere.com
I made this website for practising django

#

they have comp sci, comp engeneering, software engeneering

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

uhmmmmm, so I mean in the grand scheme of things it literally will not matter job wise which you choose

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

ohk

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

it might matter if you want to get a masters or PhD

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

okay

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

Like, to be clear I have friends with IT and IS degrees at Google and Twitter rn

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

nice

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

so its way more important that you code and have great projects/open source work and internships

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

okay so, I have to make a portfolio or resume?

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

if the applications ask for both then both

#

if they only ask for a portfolio then do that

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

I dont think they ask for any

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

oh, then yeah just make a portfolio showing off your projects and stuff

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

okay

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

anything you're proud of really and have a skill it's showing

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

portfolio is just a website right?

#

where I show all my projects? or can it be a prettified word doc

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

i dont know if it even has to be that official for college applications

#

I think a pretty word doc or pdf would be fine for applying to college programs

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:55 AM

#

uni

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:55 AM

#

honestly google that part, how should the portfolio for college applications be

#

same thing in the USA

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:55 AM

#

okay

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

http://www.meganlandau.com/

MeganLandau

#

that's a fucking portfolio

#

lmao

#

do you have universities in mind in the states? If you need any recommendations let me know, I have coworkers who have gone to a lot of top programs

#

not letters of recommendations but recommendations on what schools from people who have attended

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:57 AM

#

Im applying for Canadian unis

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:58 AM

#

ahh ok, very nice

#

I have a friend who went to Waterloo

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

nice

#

most of my cousins studied in Canada and the states

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

also had a friend go to UofT but not for CS, for music :p

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 6:00 AM

#

few even in Germany too, so thats an option for me too

#

UofT is costly

#

and quite hard to get into

#

I will be meeting an agent from IDP to help me select universities.

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 6:03 AM

#

are you a EU 12th grader?

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 6:03 AM

#

nope

#

I am from India

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

ohhh, I was kinda guessing that but didn't wanna ask this without checking first

#

Why is it so common for Indian's to go to Canadian uni?

#

India has a good uni iirc

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

They are good?

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

Oh, idk there's that really really big one that I thought was good

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

well India has good unis but super hard to get into

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

I work with a few guys who went there and they seem pretty good :p

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

you have to write the worlds toughest exam

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

Isn't there one that has like 50,000 students?

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

The IITs here are really good but as i said, super hard to get into

#

out of 1million writing the exam, only few thousands get into it

#

and thing about here, there is more theory than practicals

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 6:06 AM

#

oh holy shit

#

yeah I did not know there's over a million applicants haha

#

no wonder the 3 guys I work with who went there are so good 😛

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

I have taken comp sci in 10th grade but i wanted to try out electronics in 11th and 12th, our labs start in 2 months after the school start

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

nice

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

we get only 1 lab per week

#

so 2 hours of lab compared to 6 hours of theory

#

per week

#

also in India, you have to sacrifice a lot

#

You subject in Uni/college is decided by ur rank in the Exam

#

a good rank will give you a good subject

#

so to hard to get the desired subject as you cannot choose it

little prairie Jan 10, 2020, 6:16 AM

#

That's commie

heavy plover Jan 10, 2020, 7:02 AM

#

holy shit

#

that's not cool at all lmao

#

i was a absolute shit student

#

but i went into CS, loved it, and did well and graduated

left escarp Jan 10, 2020, 7:19 AM

#

nice

bitter flare Jan 10, 2020, 10:10 AM

#

I wonder if it's worth going to top unis for cs or sof-eng.

#

Since they teach approximately the same at other Unis

alpine idol Jan 10, 2020, 10:19 AM

#

@bitter flare I would love for it not to be worth anything, but going to a top uni still stands out for many recruiters unfortunately. In the tech space I feel it does count for less than in other industries.

gilded valley Jan 10, 2020, 10:25 AM

#

What country you're in matters a lot, but yeah I think in general it does matter

mint gate Jan 10, 2020, 10:26 AM

#

on the flip side of that you can still be successful being completely self taught will just be a bit more of a struggle in the end you can achieve the same results though

gilded valley Jan 10, 2020, 10:29 AM

#

There are definitely some companies who will just not even consider you if you don't have a degree

craggy wave Jan 10, 2020, 10:30 AM

#

Having a degree here (The Netherlands) certainly matters, but it's not the only factor. Another important factor right now is that developers are still in demand.

#

This doesn't mean that a degree is useless, because it's pretty common to get a degree here, but it means that there are a lot of entry level jobs that are open to people with a degree from another field.

bitter flare Jan 10, 2020, 10:38 AM

#

@gilded valley norway

#

But im not sure I'll study here

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:16 AM

#

Hi guys. Well i asked many people and my parents too and they told me that computer science (programming, developping) is hard, and the person who chosen it he can leave it

#

?

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:17 AM

#

and the person who chosen it he can leave it

#

What do you mean by that

#

And what exactly is your question?

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:17 AM

#

I mean if you choose the path of Computer Science (Python, Programming.....) he will find it hard and will leave it

#

and one year lost

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:18 AM

#

I mean, yeah, it's hard

#

but there's no reason to think everyone will leave it because it's hard

#

everything is hard at that level

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:18 AM

#

so how to do it

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:18 AM

#

Work hard?

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:18 AM

#

i mean does it depends on your capacities or motivation .... ?

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:18 AM

#

If you're interested in computer science, you should research it and decide if it's what you want to do

#

Don't let other people influence your decision

#

If you want to do it, do it

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:19 AM

#

ok

#

my dad told me i don't recommand you computer science.

#

he told me that one of our family did that and found it hard and left it

#

and he was gifted

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:20 AM

#

That have absolutely no bearing on your own abilities erh

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:20 AM

#

Live by your own standards

#

Nothing worth doing was ever easy

#

If you enjoy it, you should do it

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:20 AM

#

My whole family have highschool degrees at the very best and i went to PhD

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:20 AM

#

hmm

#

is it like Maths or you will have to learn ?

#

logics ?

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:21 AM

#

there is some math involved, yes

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:22 AM

#

Maybe you'll work more, maybe it will be your passion, maybe you're smart. You are a different person.

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:22 AM

#

It's one of the most varied subjects you can do I'd say

#

At least from the year I spent studying it

mint owl Jan 10, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

definitely recommend looking into the courses and what they list

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

you have to be gifted in Maths to do computer-science ?

#

or just medium

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

No

mint owl Jan 10, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

do some research and see what you were getting into

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

I'll put it this way

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

like 10 - 11 /20 in Maths is it good ?

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

I suck at math, I failed math at school

#

I still got into the course

#

so if I can do it, you can

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

what if you forget the functions adn things ?

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

Then you look them up

mint owl Jan 10, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

plus judging by some of the software out there that's bad at maths that was probably written by comp sci grads

#

<_<

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

You also don't forget if you practice

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:24 AM

#

Yeah, it's not really a concern

#

Many, many, many people are successful on these courses

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:25 AM

#

does computer-science depends on which country you are or it doens't matter ?

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:25 AM

#

It doesn't matter

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:26 AM

#

i mean i don't wanna be trapped in the trap and leave my school studies

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:26 AM

#

Sorta' you're french right?

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:26 AM

#

yup

#

well am two

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:26 AM

#

Most programming is done in English, and most research papers are published in English

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:26 AM

#

Moroccan / French

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:26 AM

#

you'll probably be using English a lot regardless of what country you're in

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:26 AM

#

Hmm...

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:26 AM

#

In France you mostly have to go to engineer school and they're behind a competitive exam

#

@gdude in france they ask you to trabslate most technical terms

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:27 AM

#

you too in France ?

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:28 AM

#

Enginering schools depend in quality , but mostly teach you software engineering/project management rather than straight computer science. The engineer diploma is very appreciated to start there. Outside of France not so much

#

I am French but not in France atm

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:28 AM

#

can you go to dms ?

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:28 AM

#

Why?

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:28 AM

#

I'd rather not

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:28 AM

#

This is useful info for the rest of us, haha

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:28 AM

#

i wanna talk to you about somethings related to paths (In france)

#

i mean i can' ttalk french here. maybe is against rules ?

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:29 AM

#

Oh, that's true

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:29 AM

#

I'm a bit too old to know what's being done nowadays

#

At highschool levels :p

#

You have to google / ask people around you

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:30 AM

#

yes

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:30 AM

#

What you probably have to look for is "prepa"

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:30 AM

#

am at first year of highschool

#

class prepa ?

#

no i don't want that

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:30 AM

#

It's sorta 2 year of very intense competitive school to prepare you for competitive exams of engineers schools

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:31 AM

#

and why would i do that prepa ? it is was of 2 years. i mean you can study before going in enginners schools

#

?

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:31 AM

#

Alternatively you can go to uni, to study computer science, but i dont know anyone that did it, so i can't talk about that

#

It's two years of study to prepare you

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:32 AM

#

uni what is that ?

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:32 AM

#

University ?

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:32 AM

#

oh yeah

#

i though something else...

#

t*

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:32 AM

#

U need prepa to get into engineering school

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:33 AM

#

is it important prepa ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:33 AM

#

It basically is hard alternative to uni years 1-2

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:33 AM

#

If you want to do enginering school ya

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:33 AM

#

how do we call 'bac' in english @shut geyser ?

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:33 AM

#

There is bridge if you do BTS or do other stuff i know but you'd have to look for yourself

#

Highschool degree

#

Bachelor in French means " Licence"

#

It's very confusing

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:34 AM

#

la bac is basically A-levels in the UK, or leaving certificate in Ireland

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:34 AM

#

I will put it this way - I am searching for jobs in Paris region now. Mostly data science things but also I am looking on dev jobs - most job posting when it comes to degree list Engineering school degree

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:35 AM

#

so if i want to do prepa, i have to finish Highschool years ?

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:35 AM

#

yup

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:35 AM

#

it does not mean you cannot get it without

indigo sleet Jan 10, 2020, 11:35 AM

#

It's probably a good idea though

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:35 AM

#

After 2 years of prepa, i go on a competitive Engineers's Exam ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:35 AM

#

especially if after your bachelor (Licence) you go for good Masters

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:35 AM

#

they pick up highest marks ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:36 AM

#

something like that

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:36 AM

#

aww

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:36 AM

#

but if you don't pass the exams to enter the school you can go to regular uni

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:36 AM

#

low chances ...

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:36 AM

#

directly for 3rd year

#

AFAIK

#

so those 2 years of prepa are not lost

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:37 AM

#

ok so after 2 yrs of prepa, you go and do competitive exams to enter engineers school ? if you fail you go to university ?

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:37 AM

#

@marsh wind it's a bit annoying the engineer diploma in France

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:37 AM

#

why it is ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:37 AM

#

considering that regular public Unis in France basically admit everyone chances are that after those 2 years of prepa you will be at least at same level as people who did 2 years of Uni.

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:38 AM

#

In other countries they ask master level or a relevant field like math/physic

#

They don't really care

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:38 AM

#

well Ecoles are hard AF to get in and to stuy in.

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:38 AM

#

From most of my friends once you get in you're good

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:39 AM

#

coldember, what happens if you fail Engineers's competitive exams ?

#

you can retry or you go to university ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:39 AM

#

I think if it is Polytechnique other countries would know what is that hehe

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:39 AM

#

Do not do shit for 3 years because you "earnt it" :p

#

Ah yeah top schools

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:39 AM

#

once you get in you're good
school dependend I guess

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:40 AM

#

I seen an ad on paris the other day

#

"Only X or Polytechnique "

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:40 AM

#

I mean I did not do one lol, but I saw people who did

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:40 AM

#

Alright then

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:40 AM

#

X = Polytechnique

#

but yeah there are sone like that

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:40 AM

#

Ah i doubled it

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:40 AM

#

if u fail engineers school competitive exams you can't redo them ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:41 AM

#

that I don't know. I only know you can be then admitted to regular Uni on year 3

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:41 AM

#

how many years oyu study in engineers schools ?

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:41 AM

#

I think you can? But you have to wait another year and study hard. Can be quite crushing. Don't even start if you plan to fail imo

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:42 AM

#

3 years AFAIK

#

so bsaically you have 5 years - 2 of prepa + 3 in school

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:42 AM

#

Sometimes 4 depending on internship

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:42 AM

#

yeah up to 4

#

I think in X they do 3, but idk for 100% with all those internships and military service

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:43 AM

#

Btw, i do think if you have this level of english at highschool in France, you're head ahead on your comrads

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:43 AM

#

I was there but never actually spoke to X engineer students lol

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:45 AM

#

From what i seen engineering schools are very good for networking also

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:45 AM

#

yup cause usually there are alumni networks

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:46 AM

#

French companies recruting in a privileged manner in those pools reinforce it

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:47 AM

#

do i have a good level in english

#

ember ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:48 AM

#

well obv we don't know how are your speaking 🙂

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:48 AM

#

Yeah

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:48 AM

#

but your writing seems fne

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 11:48 AM

#

no ember said something didn't undertsna

#

if you have this english level at highschool...

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:48 AM

#

Most French i know can't blurt two things

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:49 AM

#

which probably means reading docs/papers in english will be easy-ish for you

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:49 AM

#

Yeah you have a very good level for a highschooler in France

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 11:49 AM

#

French people don't do English for most part 😂

#

no offens

shut geyser Jan 10, 2020, 11:49 AM

#

I got my Master solely because i could read english fast :p

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 1:01 PM

#

am not french

clear trout Jan 10, 2020, 1:01 PM

#

I finished my django course. Right now I know C, python and Django. I have time to learn more. Can anyone suggested what would be the ideal topic to learn next?

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 1:01 PM

#

i mean am moroccan living in france

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 1:01 PM

#

I got it, I meant that as a general rule

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 1:03 PM

#

lel congrats for new role @marsh wind

#

what is that for ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 1:04 PM

#

😂 No need to. It only means I signed up for winter code jam

#

Basically nothing yet

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 1:04 PM

#

oh ok

#

what is winter code jam

#

you show your best ?

#

projects of winter ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 1:04 PM

#

I'd imagine that if you are already doing school im France getting citizenship won't be hard

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 1:05 PM

#

huh?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 1:05 PM

#

You can check last posts in #announcements

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 1:05 PM

#

france ? citizenship ?

#

what are u talking about ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 1:06 PM

#

For you I mean. You said you are marocan living and studying in France

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 1:06 PM

#

yes

#

and u ?

#

You're origins France ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 1:07 PM

#

No, Ukraine

#

But I am sure that getting job would be easier if you are also French

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 1:08 PM

#

am not French yet ;p

#

you living in France ?

marsh wind Jan 10, 2020, 1:08 PM

#

Yes

#

yet, but you can be

vapid jay Jan 10, 2020, 1:09 PM

#

long

#

to get them

#

idk

torpid bolt Jan 10, 2020, 10:07 PM

#

it's a bit offtopic, but i wouldn't say getting french citizenship is easy, even if you work here for a few years, you have to live there like 10 years to get it as an adult, unless you marry a french person or something, it's not easy at all

#

(source, i'm french)

little prairie Jan 10, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

I think if you get accepted and join the french military and serve a few years you can gain citizenship faster.

#

I remember reading something about it when I was younger and planned on getting dual citizenship in a foreign country.

vapid jay Jan 11, 2020, 1:35 AM

#

I was thinking of maybe switching my interest to software engineering, is that harder to do compared to computer engineering? And what should I do then if I want to be a software engineer

#

And is software engineering hard if I was planning to be a computer engineer?

little prairie Jan 11, 2020, 1:45 AM

#

I think someone with a knowledge of Computer Engineering would find software engineering alone easier, as well as make better software engineer overall. Especially when it comes to lower level languages and embedded systems

vapid jay Jan 11, 2020, 1:48 AM

#

I’m only a senior in high school so I’m not that far into computer since In general I’ve only recently got into python so I don’t know that much but I’m learning it

little prairie Jan 11, 2020, 1:50 AM

#

Well yea, in that case I'd suggest software engineering as a focus.

vapid jay Jan 11, 2020, 1:52 AM

#

I forgot to correct to computer to computer science* my bad

vapid jay Jan 11, 2020, 2:13 AM

#

Now that I’m interested in software engineering, I’m worried that since my community college only has computer science, there will be software engineering at the SUNY I plan to transfer to and I won’t be able to take that since there wasn’t one in community college

shadow moss Jan 11, 2020, 2:20 AM

#

Don't worry about it

#

most of your course will be core

vapid jay Jan 11, 2020, 2:24 AM

#

Core?

little prairie Jan 11, 2020, 2:35 AM

#

General Studies and intro courses in CC may lose a few credits but most will transfer to the new program

#

More than likely won't lose any though

halcyon plank Jan 11, 2020, 3:30 AM

#

Hello there! Could someone recommend me some competitive exams for MS

#

Like in USA, it's GRE! But what about other countries?

agile parrot Jan 11, 2020, 4:12 AM

#

I believe there's an international exam for that

dark salmon Jan 12, 2020, 2:53 AM

#

do these sound like useful learning outcomes? or is it too low-level in the software engineering hierarchy (low-level in the software understanding sense)

📎 unknown.png

radiant moon Jan 12, 2020, 3:03 AM

#

number 3 sounds harsh -- I couldn't do that with a gun to my head, and have made a nice living in software for longer than you've been alive

dark salmon Jan 12, 2020, 3:06 AM

#

haha, that says a lot.

#

big yikes to this course then

burnt tiger Jan 12, 2020, 3:07 AM

#

Yeah understanding a program through its binary representation is absurdly esoteric and impractical for most careers in the software development industry

dark salmon Jan 12, 2020, 3:08 AM

#

i dont disagree, but it comes with the course so not much i can do

burnt tiger Jan 12, 2020, 3:09 AM

#

Where is the course from and what is the title?

dark salmon Jan 12, 2020, 3:09 AM

#

the course is called introduction to computer systems

#

it's in my college

burnt tiger Jan 12, 2020, 3:10 AM

#

Ah, that's unfortunate

dark salmon Jan 12, 2020, 3:10 AM

#

its not compulsory for me to take - but i thought it covered some useful things.

#

but wasn't sure how useful or necessary

#

since i'm into robotics and such, i thought maybe machine level understanding and experience in C would be helpful, given that most of it is run on hardware

burnt tiger Jan 12, 2020, 3:11 AM

#

I remember taking an Intro to Computer Architecture course where we had to use a decent amount of RISC-5 assembly, but that actually wasn't as bad as I was expecting it to be

dark salmon Jan 12, 2020, 3:11 AM

#

where memory is a luxury

#

same for computer vision applications which are currently not the most efficient in terms of memory management and computation

burnt tiger Jan 12, 2020, 3:11 AM

#

Yeah C and assembly are useful to grasp the fundamentals of, especially since most modern languages (such as Python, Java, C#, C++, JS, etc) are based on C.

dark salmon Jan 12, 2020, 3:12 AM

#

i think i'll go ahead and endure this then.

#

might be useful for interviews as well

burnt tiger Jan 12, 2020, 3:12 AM

#

Most of the topics sounded fairly useful, but the binary part might be a drudge depending on how in-depth it is

dark salmon Jan 12, 2020, 3:16 AM

#

hmmm

#

hopefully there's not an assignment on that pepe

#

what do you guys think of the use case of low-level systems knowledge for machine learning and AI in general? Do you think it will be relevant if we are to do this on embedded systems? Would it even be possible?

#

i heard that moore's law is expected to stop being true around 2025

burnt tiger Jan 12, 2020, 3:30 AM

#

I suspect that moore's law is still going to apply to other areas, even if stops specifically applying to transistor density

#

Low-level systems knowledge is useful to some extent for any CS-related field, but it's not any more useful for ML/AI than other areas. In fact, I'd say for most data scientists the low-level systems information is likely less relevant in their day-to-day work.

dark salmon Jan 12, 2020, 3:36 AM

#

But I would argue that data scientists is largely different from ML / AI. It's true that these days a lot of data-scientists use ML but data science isn't the same as ML.

#

But other than that, I agree with the fact that it may not be 'especially' useful for ML / AI but not to say that its not going to be useful at all.

vapid jay Jan 12, 2020, 3:51 AM

#

I'm pretty sure Moores law stopped being true like 5 years ago

#

Or maybe it started again

radiant moon Jan 12, 2020, 3:57 AM

#

I used to do C; it certainly can't hurt to know it, but I'm not sure it's really useful, even just as fundamentals

#

I can't imagine what it'd be like to not know it, so ... I dunno

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 3:57 AM

#

Yea, manufactures just started adding more cores

#

There's something I was reading about graphene kicking it off again, but who knows

agile parrot Jan 12, 2020, 7:40 AM

#

the problem with moore's law is we're reaching a limit in the x-y direction so we had to go with 3D transistors. Hopefully with quantum processing it can hold true but I do believe we are reaching the limit

cosmic crow Jan 12, 2020, 7:51 AM

#

I’m 15 and learning python rn. Anyone have any advice or really anything to tell me for becoming a software engineer in the future? My dream would be to work at google or Tesla and be some sort of AI dev but that’s a dream job. Pls @ me :) thank you!

vapid jay Jan 12, 2020, 8:10 AM

#

Always have programming projects to work on and keep you learning.

torpid bolt Jan 12, 2020, 11:23 AM

#

yeah, build stuff, and read books, the fundamentals don't change fast, if you learn the right ideas, you'll see them pop times and times again in various forms, don't try to learn everythng as there is so much of it, but try to learn from others, and apply ideas in projects and also try your own ideas of course and see how they fare, then compare the alternatives if you can.

obsidian acorn Jan 12, 2020, 2:50 PM

#

I would also add, learn the programming fundamentals. They come pretty handy

#

not just python fundamentals

humble elm Jan 12, 2020, 5:20 PM

#

Maybe dont spamm that in a bunch of channels

#

Oh ooops its just the two I was looking in :) sorry!

vapid jay Jan 12, 2020, 5:26 PM

#

Ok

weary gazelle Jan 12, 2020, 5:30 PM

#

@sonic panther see my message in #game-development

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:06 PM

#

Hi! Is the role of a full stack developer only to develop websites?

#

Or can he make apps also?

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:06 PM

#

Full stack means backend and front end

#

Meaning it could be almost anything

ripe bolt Jan 12, 2020, 6:06 PM

#

Full stack is backend plus front end

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:06 PM

#

Yah but back end and front end of what?

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:07 PM

#

Everything

#

But mostly it refers to Web and App development

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:07 PM

#

Desktop application, websites, web app, mobile app all?

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:07 PM

#

Yes

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:08 PM

#

Oh! So say an android developer is also a full stack developer?

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:08 PM

#

An android developer would be a full stack developer. Unless he specifically focused on backend only or front end UI only

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:09 PM

#

Oh okay

#

And a full stack developer can be considered as software developer right?

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:10 PM

#

Correct

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:11 PM

#

Ok! So is python a good language to learn full stack development?

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:11 PM

#

For web yes, for Apps no.

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:11 PM

#

Java for apps?

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:12 PM

#

Although you can create a rest API in python that could connect to a front end App but you would still need to know Java/Kotlin or Swift.

#

Best best is to learn Kotlin, Swift, and React Native for app development

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:13 PM

#

Oh ok

#

I will need HTML and all also with them right?

#

Like other front end languages : CSS,JavaScript

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:14 PM

#

You will need HTML, CSS, and Javascript knowledge to be a Full stack developer no matter what

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:15 PM

#

Oh

#

If Python isnt used for app development, then what do “Python Developers” do?

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:17 PM

#

They can build a REST backend for app development. But Python developers can make almost any thing, trading algorithms, automated processes, data science, web development, etc. There's an unlimited amount of possibilities. And you CAN use Python for app development, but overall it would be a waste of time and better to just learn appropriate app development languages.

jade crater Jan 12, 2020, 6:17 PM

#

what are the highest paying jobs for python users

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

That completely depends

jade crater Jan 12, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

on

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

On the job

jade crater Jan 12, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

so what are they

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

I'd say just guessing Machine Learning would be one of the higher paying fields

jade crater Jan 12, 2020, 6:18 PM

#

200k

open patio Jan 12, 2020, 6:19 PM

#

ML/data analysist/dev ops right?

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:19 PM

#

Depends, if you are working at google it could be 400-500k a year with everything included

#

If you are working for a startup maybe 100k if that

#

Kind of like asking how much does a doctor make. It just completely depends

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:21 PM

#

@little prairie I can also learn Java for full stack right?

#

Because in internship or job posting by Google & other big companies, I never saw Kotlin or React in preferred languages

gilded valley Jan 12, 2020, 6:22 PM

#

Google are only looking for PHDs in the ML field - and even then, they're not on as much of a recruitment push as they were a few years ago. Painting ML as some magic money ticket is just false at this point

#

Google use Kotlin as their primary language for android app development

#

IIRC there languages are: C++, Python, Java, and Kotlin

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:23 PM

#

See!

📎 image0.png

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

Most companies are adopting ML in some way or another.

gilded valley Jan 12, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

a) thats a single job posting, b) including but not limited to

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

Okk

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

There's 360 jobs in my city alone for ML/Data scientist

gilded valley Jan 12, 2020, 6:24 PM

#

ok

#

thats nice

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

And I'm not in a tech hub city

gilded valley Jan 12, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

still a fairly meaningless datapoint on its own

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

I would have gone for ML but am not that good with mathematics 😟

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:25 PM

#

He asked what generally pays the highest

#

There are more ML jobs than developers to fill them, that typically means higher wages

gilded valley Jan 12, 2020, 6:27 PM

#

I don't agree that thats the case. I think ML is now at the point where ML developers are treated roughly on par with just standard software engineers, and the companies that can effectively implement and use the highest tech stuff are looking for small teams of extreme experts, not lots of quite-good people

#

Looking at small people-wise, but big money-wise ,companies like Oxford Asset Management, or Jane Street, they have the money but are only looking for smaller teams of PHDs rather than just ML engineers

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:28 PM

#

Ok I have a silly question..how are programming languages made?

#

Like how was Python made? Of course not by using C++ n stuff right?

gilded valley Jan 12, 2020, 6:29 PM

#

Python is implemented in C yes

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

I'm going straight from indeed job search results of companies hiring for single Machine Learning developers/Data Scientist. The pay is high and the positions are entry level.

gilded valley Jan 12, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

or, the standard interpreter

radiant moon Jan 12, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

otoh, where I work (a large Internet retailer and cloud-services provider in Seattle), we indeed have teams of merely-very-good SDEs who picked up ML on the job

halcyon plank Jan 12, 2020, 6:30 PM

#

Ok @gilded valley

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:32 PM

#

Yea, I think a lot of people expected ML to be just a fad buzz word for a while but it developed into a promising industry with high demand for the foreseeable future.

gilded valley Jan 12, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

My point isn't that ML is a buzzword. Its that its just another tool that can be used to create business value, not some magic money tree. ML engineers are roughly on par with standard software engineers. True data science positions - regardless of job title - are much harder to come by

ripe bolt Jan 12, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

ML is hype

ember flower Jan 12, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

ML is a buzzword

ripe bolt Jan 12, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

ML and AI was around for past 50 years nearly

gilded valley Jan 12, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

Sure. But CNNs and the hardware to run them properly haven't been

little prairie Jan 12, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

We can agree to disagree. ML is a money tree, because it offers insight in to the things 'we don't know that we don't know', and that has always been profitable throughout history.

ripe bolt Jan 12, 2020, 6:35 PM

#

But bigdata is pushing improvement in Data science

#

And it's mostly statistics

opal perch Jan 12, 2020, 6:50 PM

#

@gilded valley But mate, why would a company want a small team of experts, when its clearly shown that an ensemble of good people is better 😛 Since we're on the topic of ML

modest quail Jan 12, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

i was trying to make my own study plan based in their major map courses but i got the intrigue how well structure the major map is, so basically just trying to get some information about it

solid berry Jan 12, 2020, 10:07 PM

#

so ML depends on what? quick brain processing? einstein maths?

timid mirage Jan 12, 2020, 11:16 PM

#

@little prairie for sure

torpid bolt Jan 12, 2020, 11:32 PM

#

My understanding is that ML is some neat ideas usually expressed through some "more advanced than high school" maths, but not terribly complex either, and that can usually be expressed in more natural language, and a lot of experimentation with these ideas.

heavy plover Jan 13, 2020, 2:01 AM

#

a lot of my current coworkers who are ML engineers are more like software devs who know how to use AWS Machine Learning services

#

so they write a web app component with ML built in

#

but they're using some sorta AWS service to handle the machine learning

#

they're not literally building ML algorithms or something from scratch

#

it's a lot like how front end devs know some UI/UX but are mostly writing code using libraries that help write front end stuff

little prairie Jan 13, 2020, 3:28 AM

#

Yea...not really what this discussion was covering.

heavy plover Jan 13, 2020, 3:29 AM

#

wym? Kambo and tshirt both brought up "what exactly is ML work"

#

as far as what you were saying, yeah it's definitely a money tree. It's cheaper now than ever to use ML since a lot of the power required can be offloaded

little prairie Jan 13, 2020, 3:31 AM

#

Not arguing that Amazon doesn't have sophisticated ML algorithms; especially given the fact that they collect all data from your PC/phone when you visit their site.

#

But this was about jobs that exist to write neural networks and ml algorithms

#

And their respective salaries