#career-advice | Python | Page 325

ancient trench Jan 4, 2020, 6:02 AM

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@dark salmon depends what you are looking to do in the future

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:03 AM

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i actually want to keep myself open to software engineering roles as well as robotics roles

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:03 AM

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I was also thinking of doing Java programming

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:03 AM

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i have a feeling computer graphics will be like pigeon holing myself

ancient trench Jan 4, 2020, 6:03 AM

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Hm, I'm not really sure about that, might wanna wait until someone who knows more can answer

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:03 AM

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as far as jobs are concerned

ancient trench Jan 4, 2020, 6:03 AM

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Just take what you think is best

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:04 AM

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;-;

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:04 AM

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My grandpa does Java programming as a job

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:04 AM

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nice

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i am not sure which is the more appropriate question

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how old is he or how old are you

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:05 AM

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50

ancient trench Jan 4, 2020, 6:05 AM

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#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:05 AM

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I'm 24

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:06 AM

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then ur gpa would help guide you on what language to learn

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:06 AM

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I wanna do Java programming just like him

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College books are expensive

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:12 AM

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I did computer vision in grad school for my thesis

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It was matlab though.

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:12 AM

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@worthy tartan check out lib gen

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free books

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@shut meteor thats great, i'm actually in grad school right now

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but masters

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:12 AM

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Lib gen ?

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:13 AM

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Yeah. That's what I did. MSEE

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:13 AM

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so do you have any suggestions as to what course i should take?

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i feel if i go into geometry based methods in vision maybe computer graphics would be more useful

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:14 AM

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What is your masters in ? CS?

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:14 AM

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but if i go into learning based methods then machine learning would obviously be more useful

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lol its actually in mechanical engineering

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but my focus is in robotics

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:14 AM

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Et tu?

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You are on the ME side of robotics?

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:15 AM

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also from employment point of view i think machine learning would be good

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@hushed kestrel i'm trying to migrate from conventional ME to software side 😄

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:15 AM

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I wish I had done ME. Lol. I want to do aerodynamics. Digital image processing is very handy. The AI/machines learning i guess is too.

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:15 AM

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I went from Phys -> EE circuit design -> software side

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:15 AM

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Also digital controls will be handy

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:15 AM

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i wanted to do aerospace engineering but no job prospects so i dropped it

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:16 AM

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My day job is ASIC design but I thought I would do something diff for thesis.

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:16 AM

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what is ASIC?

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:17 AM

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Application Specific Integrated Circuit. Chip design.

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Not the shoes. Lol

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:17 AM

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oh i see

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what shoes?

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:17 AM

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Holyfuck, how do you get into that?

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ASIC

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:17 AM

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i think one has to be doing VLSI, Embedded systems etc

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or sth

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to find their way into ASIC

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:18 AM

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I guess ASIC only matters if you have 100k + to go to a foundary

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:19 AM

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Ummm. In college I did coop at company. Then in one rotation I migrated to asic team. Then they hired me on. I mainly do the front end stuff. Vhdl , verilog , etc. Simulation etc. The vendors handle most of the backend stuff. Tons of jobs in the verification sector.

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Yeah. NREs are many millions of dollars

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:20 AM

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im in intl grad student in the US and mechE hiring is very dry here

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most people prefer us citizens

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which is why i'm trying to keep myself open to software opportunities since tehre are more jobs there

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:21 AM

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Work with your college. They can help with job placement.

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 6:22 AM

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yeeeah thats there

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but in general its a sucky situation

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besides its not stimulating anymore

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i'd rather go into software and develop software for MechE applications

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:23 AM

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Is e-commerce good job to get in?

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:23 AM

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I am trying to get into lab automation personally

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it depends on what part of e-commerce

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Technically you could work for a company that works on payment processing for e-commerce, that's lucrative. If you are working for e-commerce website, unless the site has scale( amazon is e-commerce) you're a glorified web-dev

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:25 AM

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So it's good to get in college for!

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?

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:26 AM

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Entry level whatever it's 'fine' . If you are deciding to go to college to get a job, it's probably better to just go into programming, talk to your profs and talk to potential employers and ask about jobs that you might actually like doing day to day

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instead of worrying on the job sector you are moving to

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IMHO

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If you are smart and know programming, you will eventually make it to where you want to be.

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If you are willing to put in the work

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:27 AM

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I was thinking of Java programming

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:27 AM

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So choosing what you want is probably the most important part of the process

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:28 AM

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This is e-commerce discription

📎 JPEG_20200103_232741.jpg

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That's I asked if it's good to get into

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After I finish that what job can I get with it

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:30 AM

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OH

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It's a class

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Semester?

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:30 AM

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Yes

vapid jay Jan 4, 2020, 6:30 AM

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e

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:31 AM

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That class represents only 90-100 hours of work

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To be successful at e-commerce it is really about your portfolio and charging clients as a one-stop-shop to setup their business

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:32 AM

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That's I asked if e-commerce is good for a career

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:32 AM

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UHH

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:32 AM

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No huh

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:32 AM

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It's not a 'no-huh'

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It really depends.

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:32 AM

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Freelancing

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:32 AM

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This class will teach you how to setup mom/pop e-commerce stores

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:33 AM

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Ahh for freelancing

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:33 AM

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with maybe some advanced backend (using databases at all instead of excel sheets)

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It depends if the class goes into Devops

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or just wordpress / basic webpage layout

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:33 AM

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This will be my first time

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:33 AM

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Classes aren't generally

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Take this - > Go get a job

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:34 AM

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That's what I'm looking for at the end if I finish will it get a job

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:35 AM

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If you are very concerned with getting a job, the best thing I would advise is:

Look up the job descriptions of the kind of jobs you might want in e-commerce

Look at the course syllabus.

See if the job description matches the syllabus

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If you want to freelance (Never say freelance, always say consult. FYI)

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:36 AM

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Agree with Sintrill. The odds of doing exactly what u want out of school can be low. Get a job at a company they might have an area you like, prove your worth, then move to that area.

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:36 AM

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Ooh okay

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:36 AM

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Then look at other freelancers and see what services they offer and what rate they charge

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:36 AM

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I wanna move after I finish college

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:36 AM

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Great

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:36 AM

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Because where I am isn't gonna pay well enough

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:37 AM

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Where are you?

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:37 AM

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Arizona the is low here in this state

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Pay

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:37 AM

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Arizona has lots of tech companies.

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:38 AM

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Yeah but the cost is low

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I'm thinking of moving to Georgia

shut meteor Jan 4, 2020, 6:39 AM

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Again, you need to first get a job and then work your way up. What do you want for starting salary ? Right out of school it won't be that much diff across the US

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Go to Intel

vapid jay Jan 4, 2020, 6:39 AM

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you guys are so lucky in the US

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Canada = garbage

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 6:40 AM

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I have to options either e-commerce or Java still thinking

hushed kestrel Jan 4, 2020, 6:54 AM

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Java is important for programming jobs I think

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JS more so

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Just from the descriptions i've seen

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I still recommend looking up job board descriptions. it only takes 1-2 hours

worthy tartan Jan 4, 2020, 7:09 AM

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Is Java programming hard ?

dark salmon Jan 4, 2020, 9:14 AM

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all programming is hard, sadlly

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the only way to get through it is to get through it

dry sapphire Jan 4, 2020, 9:23 AM

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Java is mindnumbing

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 4:16 PM

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take Linux Shell scripting

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more useful

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Java programming tends to be more enterprisy so it's generally more mind-numbing but it will more reliably pay the bills

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You could also learn C# if you want a language that's used a ton in the enterprise but is seeing some use in startups

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my company is switching from Java to C# for domestic developers

hollow night Jan 4, 2020, 4:59 PM

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How to be a python developer

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Is learning python + Django enough to be a python developer

little prairie Jan 4, 2020, 5:10 PM

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?

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You can be a Python/Django developer if you learn Python/Django

wanton holly Jan 4, 2020, 5:14 PM

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that would certainly be a good step in the right direction, but it probably also helps to know a few other technologies as well. for example, how to use web servers like nginx, basic docker, git, perhaps other web frameworks like flask, and maybe some basic front-end web languages like HTML/CSS so that you know how your code affects the webpage visually. even if you don't need to use some of these in an actual python developer job, it helps you stand out if you're familiar with how a website actually reaches the user.

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i mean, if you have a good enough portfolio to demonstrate competence with python and django then that could indeed get you a job, but it'll be easier to show that you know what you're doing when you also know other relevant technologies.

split marsh Jan 4, 2020, 5:40 PM

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hello everyone I was wondering if I could get some help on a career path decision

vapid jay Jan 4, 2020, 6:06 PM

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@split marsh maybe someone would show up if you tell your situation

split marsh Jan 4, 2020, 6:07 PM

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@Moizes#1363 makes sense so here I go

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I am currently a performer in some of the top shows in the US but as with everything there are times where work is low and not many shows have openings, I love computers and tech so I wanted to start programming and try to make a career out of it. But I don't know if there is much of a thriving market for developers that work from home without having to go into an office and on top of that, if I would be able to still travel and develop while on tour

vapid jay Jan 4, 2020, 6:11 PM

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@split marsh Do you like math? And, what about creating websites?

split marsh Jan 4, 2020, 6:26 PM

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I would love creating websites @vapid jay

vapid jay Jan 4, 2020, 6:27 PM

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@split marsh so that's the way to go, it's not that hard to be a freelancer for creating websites, the thing is that you would have to make a good marketing of your websites

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But first you should try to learn the fundamentals of Web Design

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like learn HTML, CSS and Javascript

split marsh Jan 4, 2020, 6:53 PM

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@vapid jay ok awesome! So i need to learn those languages and what else? I'm always down for learning I just didn't know the list of things I needed to learn

vapid jay Jan 4, 2020, 6:55 PM

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@split marsh Take a look on this website: https://www.mockplus.com/blog/post/how-to-become-a-web-designer

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it shows a awesome step-by-step guide

split marsh Jan 4, 2020, 6:58 PM

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thanks so much man that's super helpful!

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@vapid jay

vapid jay Jan 4, 2020, 6:59 PM

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You're welcome

nova verge Jan 4, 2020, 7:17 PM

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Hello everyone I would like to get a career path!

radiant moon Jan 4, 2020, 7:18 PM

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me too

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 9:43 PM

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I just got offered a job as a dev at a small start up

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i'm 14 and really excited about this

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but the pay seems sketch

weary gazelle Jan 4, 2020, 9:44 PM

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what makes you think so?

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 9:44 PM

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Instead of being on payroll, or and hourly/annual salary

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I get a % of each sale as commision

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Other than that, it seems completely fine

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I sort of understand, because its a really small startup

weary gazelle Jan 4, 2020, 9:45 PM

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in your spot i'd try and make sure you're not being exploited to work for more or less free

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 9:45 PM

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Yeah, that sounds smart

weary gazelle Jan 4, 2020, 9:45 PM

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do you have something like minimum wage in your place

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 9:46 PM

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Yeah

weary gazelle Jan 4, 2020, 9:46 PM

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how does that commission apply to that?

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 9:46 PM

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I'm not sure how it works

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i'll probably talk to a counselor at my school

weary gazelle Jan 4, 2020, 9:46 PM

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yeah that's definitely a good idea

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 9:46 PM

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or get directed to a legal consultant

weary gazelle Jan 4, 2020, 9:46 PM

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especially since you're 14 so the law is probably a bit different

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 9:47 PM

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I know you can book a legal consultant for like half an hour on the cheap

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i'll keep that in mind

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thanks!

weary gazelle Jan 4, 2020, 9:47 PM

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👍

opal perch Jan 4, 2020, 10:22 PM

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where you at dude?

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@royal heath

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:23 PM

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US

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i think i'm going to consult a legal professional

opal perch Jan 4, 2020, 10:26 PM

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Yea I'd just make sure you're at least getting minimum, but be warned they can get special pay legally, like a subminimum wage for people of younger age

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yea exactly, best idea

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:26 PM

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ah, thank you

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:28 PM

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at 14, that's fishy

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since 14 year olds are extremely restricted to the point of hiring them isn't worth it

opal perch Jan 4, 2020, 10:30 PM

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nah us law says that a 14 year old can work as long as its not agriculture, that's the minimum age

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:31 PM

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All work must be performed outside school hours and you may not work:

more than 3 hours on a school day, including Friday;
more than 18 hours per week when school is in session;
more than 8 hours per day when school is not in session;
more than 40 hours per week when school is not in session; and
before 7 a.m. or after 7 p.m. on any day, except from June 1st through Labor Day, when nighttime work hours are extended to 9 p.m.

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so you have to make sure they limit themselves to 3 hours per school day, and no more then 18 hours per week

opal perch Jan 4, 2020, 10:32 PM

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Oh yea, otherwise all sorts of legal trouble. @royal heath do they know you're 14? Or did you hide that detail?

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:32 PM

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no I disclosed it

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its still and offer

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:32 PM

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so when do you work?

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:32 PM

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i didn't hide anything

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still talking to them

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:32 PM

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because assuming it's 9-5 shop, you can't start until after school lets you at 1430ish or so

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:33 PM

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hmm

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:33 PM

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or later

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:33 PM

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alright

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thank you

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:33 PM

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BTW, it's whatever local school does, so even if you are in private school or such, it doesn't matter

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:33 PM

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ah, im in a local public school

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:33 PM

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at my work we hire HS interns occasionally and we require 16+ because of 14-15 is PITA

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:34 PM

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that makes sense

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ok thank you guys

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i think i'll consult with some legal professionals and my counselor

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:34 PM

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my point is, if you get out at 1430, you are at work in 1500, that's only two hours to code, review your code (which will be require alot of reviewing

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and keep you up to date

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:35 PM

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2 hours seems minimal

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:35 PM

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it's 3 hours per day

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:35 PM

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at that point, why bother?

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:35 PM

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but I'm assuming people go home at 5

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our interns stay late 😄

royal heath Jan 4, 2020, 10:36 PM

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i'll look into that

shadow moss Jan 4, 2020, 10:37 PM

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so they arrive around 3, code until around 6, commit, and get their pull requests reviewed next day

vapid jay Jan 5, 2020, 5:34 PM

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Do you have debuggers like pycharm in a interview ?

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:41 PM

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AG, we provide VSCode

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If they can't do it in editor, probably an issue

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AG, test for SRE at my group was/is (been a while since we have interviewed for that position)

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Our python test for SRE is write a function that connects to this Calc API we made and return result as int
Bonus read an API token out of a file and pass it along
Second bonus, the operators are at different endpoint

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I think for Java, they provide JetBrains and C# interviews get provided Visual Studio

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:46 PM

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Oh hey, I am an SRE using Python

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that's sorta how my interview went

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I was asked to use Python to parse a json return

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which essentially is the return of an API call

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:47 PM

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we make them connect to API

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:47 PM

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and then I was asked a bunch of Terraform and Chef stuff :D

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Python is not as much of my job as I hoped :/

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:48 PM

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I need to learn both of those

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we don't use either

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:48 PM

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i wanna get way more into programming

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Terraform and Chef or Ansible (both do same thing) are great!

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:48 PM

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We are in Azure so we stick with Powershell/ARM Templates

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:48 PM

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I probably spend the first 6 months of my career learning those alone

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Azure has terraform support though D:

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:49 PM

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Terraform does not seem to provide any benefit

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that's current thinking

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:49 PM

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Honestly though, Terraform, as fantastic as it is, is hard to get people to use if they don't want to be cloud agnostic

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correct, Terraform's benefit is that it is cloud agnostic, so you can build the same infrastructure in different places

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:49 PM

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Yea, we are sooo embedded with Azure specific stuff, it would be very difficult to pull out

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like we LOVE CosmosDB

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:49 PM

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but if you're only using 1 cloud (which isn't best practices) then there's no benefit

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we got our company to use Terraform because we finally convinced the architect guy that we need to have failover to another cloud environment incase of failure

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:50 PM

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$megacorp would love us to do GCP

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:50 PM

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which is technically best practices, but like not a very well followed best practice because how often do Azure/AWS/GCP actually crash

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like, I don't think it's ever happened

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:51 PM

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problem is, when you go cloud neutral, you are then forced to run alot of stuff on your own and that removes some of PaaS benefits

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:51 PM

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That, or you have to learn multiple cloud environment

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like we use Route 53 on AWS and set it up with Terraform

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:51 PM

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Stuff like API Management or Database

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:51 PM

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well, of course GCP and Azure have Route 53 equivalents

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but it's not the same

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:51 PM

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Sure

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:51 PM

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so we had to learn how to use GCP route entries and set it up with terraform

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:51 PM

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but I'm talking stuff like database or storage

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:51 PM

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storage especially is crazy

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S3 vs Googles Rapid Store or whatever its called

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:52 PM

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Rapid failure?

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:52 PM

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and Redshift vs Google's large scale database stuff

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idk, I'm not the Google cloud guy on my team :p

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 6:52 PM

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sorry, I'm not a fan of Google stuff after dealing with it

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 6:52 PM

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but I know he was showing me that Google's storage solutions are way different than AWS

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which is where Terraform definitely gets weird because Terraform is not just "write once run anywhere"

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it's like, "write once and rebuild anytime, unless..."

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and the unless is like "did you properly modularize your Terraform to run in any region or did you hard code your region?" "did you modularize your apps so they can use any DNS entry or do your DNS entries have to be 1 name only so you can't have easy failover"

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shit like that

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which is probably why half the company still uses CloudFormation :p

fast warren Jan 5, 2020, 8:02 PM

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Guys I might get a job programming python that's not based on how many games we sell

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It's gonna be fantastic

little prairie Jan 5, 2020, 8:10 PM

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Unless it's a zero-to-one type of service/product I would never take a commission based job. Congrats!

fast warren Jan 5, 2020, 8:13 PM

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Thanks! 😄

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 8:31 PM

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i think my next job i wanna do fullstack dev

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SRE/DevOps is neat but I'd like to get dev work on my career before I'm 30

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thinking of trying the udacity micro-degree program just to get some projects

fast warren Jan 5, 2020, 8:47 PM

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Update: I'm probably not getting a job

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 8:52 PM

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that was a quick turnaround

little prairie Jan 5, 2020, 8:57 PM

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I take my congratulations back then.

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Lol j/k. That's quite a roller coaster though. Probably not the best people to work for anyway

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 9:07 PM

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FULLSTACK DEV

little prairie Jan 5, 2020, 9:14 PM

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?

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 9:17 PM

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Nothing

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I hate the term since it's one of those overused job descriptions like "DEVOPS!"

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and I personally think it's terrible idea in long run

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it's only attractive to companies because 1 programmer is cheaper then 2

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:18 PM

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well

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in general specialization is good, so I'd agree with you

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but I've heard horror stories about e.g., developers handing stuff over to Q/A, who don't quite understand it; then they hand it to the guys who deploy it, and they don't quite understand it, &c &c

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 9:19 PM

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We have very structured Dev/QA/SRE system

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:19 PM

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I never hear the term 'devops' where I work, but that's exactly what I do

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 9:19 PM

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and I don't get everything the programmer is up to but I'm involved enough in her craziness that I have a clue

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:19 PM

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we "own" the stuff from product design, coding, testing, deploying, scaling, support, and eventually decommissioning

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 9:49 PM

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fulstack dev just means a developer who can handle front end and back end which is just new web dev

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everyone I know who does app development is either on a front end or backend team

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not that some dev's can't go between both, but it seems fullstack just means web app dev

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:51 PM

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sounds reasonable

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I personally am backend only; frontend baffles me

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and based on my experience, all my coworkers -- even the ones who write the UIs -- are the same way 😐

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 9:52 PM

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Snazzle, I know what it means

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what I'm saying, it's not good for anyone except the company

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:53 PM

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this is the most complex frontend I've ever done, by far: https://teensy.info

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 9:53 PM

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eh, I think with the way web development has gone it's fair to want your web devs to basically be full stack

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But again, I've only ever seen "full stack" basically mean a web dev who can handle UI, logic, and their database (somewhat)

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:54 PM

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not deployment? Not scaling? Not security? Not monitoring and metrics?

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 9:54 PM

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I've never seen a fullstack dev who does that stuff

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:54 PM

#

hm

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 9:54 PM

#

At my company that's SRE's

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:54 PM

#

I never even heard the term SRE until a couple of days ago, here on discord 🙂

#

hadda look it up

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

SRE's handle everything at the cloud level and most of the OS level

#

and the devs handle the application itself

#

that's just the company I'm at though, can't speak for other companies

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:55 PM

#

I do alla that

#

except our "app" is a web service, so no UI, hooray

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 9:57 PM

#

sounds like you're just getting used up and burned out then, my buddy was at a job where they had him doing the devops and app work

#

he didn't know that's not how most companies are lmao

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 9:58 PM

#

Snazzle, I know what full stack does, I'm making argument it's terrible idea

#

they know all these things which are specialities in themselves so generally they do one or two of them wrong

#

fullstack dev is like saying I want whole body surgeon, there is a reason for specialization

#

generally fullstack dev means we got our front end JS guy to write some node, what could go wrong?

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

heh

#

I smell burnout

little prairie Jan 5, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

Ehh...idk about that

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 9:59 PM

#

as SRE, my answer is "a metric ton"

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:00 PM

#

fair

#

One of my senior engineers was saying out most apps suck dick nowadays because of just what you're talking about

#

I've never been on the app side though so I don't know a whole lot about it yet

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 10:00 PM

#

I work with my devs

#

I constantly want to choke our front end guy

#

but he will end up as my boss one day I'm sure of it

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:01 PM

#

But yeah exactly what you're saying actually, about how Node has enabled a lot of front end people to "sorta" do back end stuff

#

but not very well

#

that's almost verbatim what he was talking about and also partly why he dislikes JS lmao

#

most of our services are python but a few are JS

#

and he was just pooing all over the JS services

#

saying how they don't know how to write good code and stuff

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 10:04 PM

#

there isn't a programmer alive who won't complain about other people's code.

shadow moss Jan 5, 2020, 10:06 PM

#

you know who writes worse code?

#

Me

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:06 PM

#

nah

#

Me

#

my coworker gave me homework over the weekend. He said since I wanna do more development for internal tooling on the SRE team I need to go home and do "Learn Python the Hard Way"

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 10:07 PM

#

I have a pretty low opinion of my own code -- but everyone else's is even worse 🙂

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:08 PM

#

I've written a couple Python scripts at work already but this book is actually interesting as heck

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 10:08 PM

#

I think that's the .... controversial book

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:08 PM

#

the exercises are showing me different stuff about Python I definitely didn't know

#

lol why is it controversial

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 10:08 PM

#

can't remember, tbh

#

maybe the author thinks Python3 is bogus and you should stick to python2

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:09 PM

#

nah this is all in Python 3

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 10:09 PM

#

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/frequently-asked-questions/#whats-wrong-with-learn-python-the-hard-way

Python Discord | Frequently Asked Questions

We're a large, friendly community focused around the Python programming language. Our community is open to those who wish to learn the language, as well as those looking to help others.

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:10 PM

#

ohhhh that's referring literally to "Learn Python the Hard Way"

#

which is the original book yes

#

The one I'm doing is the updated "Learn Python 3 The Hard Way"

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

didn't know that existed

#

gotta say I love the title(s)

indigo sleet Jan 5, 2020, 10:11 PM

#

the updated version is no better

#

you can take them both under the same umbrella

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

ah, ok

indigo sleet Jan 5, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

because they are almost exactly the same, just with some syntax changes and a couple additions

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

idk, it's helpful so far

#

what would you recommend instead?

indigo sleet Jan 5, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

there is a minority that does pretty well with it, honestly

torpid bolt Jan 5, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

currently reading https://danluu.com/algorithms-interviews/ it could be interesting for people here, it's a bit about interview questions, but the point is more general.

indigo sleet Jan 5, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

but there are a bunch of objective problems

#

!resources has a bunch of good stuff if you need it

inner wrenBOT Jan 5, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:12 PM

#

oh, automate the boring stuff

#

I'm doing that some too :D

#

neither of them are my "main" learning tool though. I use python at work right now to write scripts

#

so these are just supplemental to me using python at work, just sorta a way to get used to the syntax more

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:29 PM

#

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21961560

futur321

Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

I joined Google straight from college 6 years ago as a SWE, and by now I'm used to the style of work of "do the minimal work possible to do the job", I never challenge myself to deeply learn about what I'm doing, it's almost like I've been using only 10% of my mental capacity...

#

jaykekler

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 10:29 PM

#

humblebrag

#

"I'm so smart, even being a developer at the most advanced software shop on Earth fails to challenge me!"

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

lol, I've talked to quite a few people over at Google (they're right up the block from me) and they have told me that working at Google doesn't mean you're doing anything difficult or challenging

#

it's more that being there means you might have the opportunity to be on one of those teams

#

not that all of their dev's don't know what they're doing, they do. But not all of them are doing stuff super new and challenging

hushed kestrel Jan 5, 2020, 10:35 PM

#

I actually like python the hard way

#

No one else does

#

I want to get a job at google, but it seems like they hate me or something

#

It's pretty frustrating

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:36 PM

#

pepehands

#

My next goal company is Box

#

but I'm in SF so I'm gonna apply to everyone lmao

hushed kestrel Jan 5, 2020, 10:37 PM

#

I'm in Berkeley

#

Nice

#

I don't know react, js, front end, back end, node, aws, django, flask

#

So it seems like no one wants a python programmer >:T

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:38 PM

#

So learn one or some of them???

#

There's a lot of highly recommended Django and Flask programs/projects on udemy and udacity

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:39 PM

#

I really get the feeling there isn't a huge market for any programmer who only really knows one programming language, or even multiple. It seems like the blend of modern or semi-modern technologies is the most effective way to be employable

hushed kestrel Jan 5, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

I mean

#

I come from a hardware / EE background

#

So it's a bit weird

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

depends what level you're going for Morgan

#

If you're going for entry level roles knowing a programming language and having some project experience or a internship (preferably both) and doing well in whiteboarding interviews is how you get in

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:40 PM

#

Eh - tonnes of the developers I worked with were from a EE/Physics/other-STEM background

#

so i don't think its uncommon

heavy plover Jan 5, 2020, 10:41 PM

#

but if you're going for like a level 3 at google or facebook then yeah, you better have a stacked resume

#

I know someone who was a senior engineer at my company who went to Facebook and they would only hire him as an e3 (which is just one step above new grad)

#

he took it cuz I mean it's facebook and they still make more than us so..

hushed kestrel Jan 5, 2020, 10:44 PM

#

I have a physics background + ee + consult + now 2-3 year programming

#

But I send random resumes in

#

But I don't get calls

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:44 PM

#

For specifically Google/Facebook/Netflix...?

#

or for more general companies?

hushed kestrel Jan 5, 2020, 10:45 PM

#

FAANG

#

More google/facebook because they have hardware stuff

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:45 PM

#

hmmm. Theres so much noise out there about allegedly good ways to get into those companies, for example I've heard of people just studying algorithms for 6mos so they could pass the interview and that working

#

But I've also heard of people just getting ghosted at the Resume stage

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:46 PM

#

in general, my problem for all my applications has been actually getting an interview

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:46 PM

#

I'd love to know genuine concrete advice for how feasible it is to get hired

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:46 PM

#

if that happens everything is fine

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:46 PM

#

me google contacted me randomly when i dropped out of a bio PhD

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:46 PM

#

Yeah, i've heard the exact same thing - and it matches my experience as well. 100% interview --> offer rate, very few interviews

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:46 PM

#

their recruiting algo is weird

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

Where are you based?

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:47 PM

#

Belgium at that time

#

they're searching to expand Munich i think

#

(i didn't get an offer though)

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

Did you get the interview though? If so, what was the actual position?

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

SRE and i went to onsite

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

How did that go?

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

i did much better than i thought i would

#

but still got crushed

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

I'm looking for ML work

#

which probably kind of contributes to the problem

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

coming from someone who was feeding cells 6 month before, it was really validating to go that far tbh

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

where did they contact you?

#

LinkedIn?

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

hmm my email adress linked to my github

#

according to recruiter they looked at it and my blog

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

Oh, do you have much on your github?

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:49 PM

#

but there is nothing special there

#

nah not really

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:50 PM

#

What about your blog? Anything cool on there?

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:50 PM

#

just some articles about my failed projects on my github :p

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:50 PM

#

Hmmm - it sounds like making a blog is probably worth it

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

yeah it shows you're motivated i think

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

it depends on what kind of person you are...?

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

and if you write good enough it also show that you can communicate your ideas

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

like if you're comfortable writing technically/non-technically then, yes

#

but if you don't have experience in that it can take a while to ramp up

#

and if you're pressed for time...

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

I enjoy writing, but haven't done much of it because I can never find things to write about

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

really

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

and I don't like the feeling of writing into the void

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:51 PM

#

i got contacted in June and went to Onsite on November so time is out of question anyway

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

the simplest thing to do is to find a programming concept and explain it

#

something a bit more advanced

#

e.g. descriptors in Python

#

simplest, but also not particularly useful

#

something more relevant would be a technical blog on a project you did

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

my only writing i'm okay with is a quick tutorial about Minesweeper with a bfs + arcade library

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

especially if you can talk about your design tradeoffs

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

Yeah, thats the main thing

#

but I am also in the habit of not finishing my projects

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:52 PM

#

rest is just failed stuff

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

that is definitely me

#

so I decided

#

do smaller projects

#

roothink

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

I can never find smaller projects

#

although recently, a lot of GUI stuff has started appealing to me

#

so hopefully i'll learn a random GUI lib and do fun stuff with that

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 10:53 PM

#

i done one at work to automatise a part of my work but i don't want my boss to find out

#

so i don't write about it >.>

#

it's good to show quickly something i think (GUI and blog writing)

dry sapphire Jan 5, 2020, 10:58 PM

#

I got into the habit

#

of doing 2-3 hour projects

#

before making applications

hushed kestrel Jan 5, 2020, 11:01 PM

#

I did a 4 day project where I created a gui that signaled a raspi across the network to take a photo, pickle it, upload it to a database, and then the gui would update a list of available camera shots from the data base that you could press a button, download the image and display it within the gui + relevant meta data or whatever

shut geyser Jan 5, 2020, 11:02 PM

#

ah nice

#

i made a 2 day project to

#

configure vim on my rasberry

#

hmm hmm what do you think of that huh

#

seriously i lost 2 day of my life

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 11:04 PM

#

why pickle a photo?

gilded valley Jan 5, 2020, 11:32 PM

#

If I decide to go with Python for GUI stuff, then that would be my choice

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 11:36 PM

#

some day I'll figure out how to get a kivy app onto my phone

torpid bolt Jan 5, 2020, 11:41 PM

#

need help with that?

#

i mean, here is not the right place but if you report your issues in the #support channel of the kivy server, you should get help

#

if not, ping me some time, and i'll try to be available

radiant moon Jan 5, 2020, 11:45 PM

#

it's just the requirements -- it says "use buildozer" and then it says "oh sorry, only works on Linux (and oh btw it's alpha)". I don't have Linux at home, so ...

compact perch Jan 5, 2020, 11:51 PM

#

you run predominantly on mac?

torpid bolt Jan 5, 2020, 11:52 PM

#

if you have windows 10, you can use WSL

#

if neither linux, osx, or windows 10, then use a VM, that's the easiest

#

(but again, that's OT for here)

radiant moon Jan 6, 2020, 12:01 AM

#

all I have at home is a mac, yes

#

I imagine I'd need an invite to that kivy server 🙂

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 12:44 PM

#

@radiant moon takes a numpy array and turns it into a byte string that you can upload. (There is some table format that allows you to upload upwards of 1gb of byte data (it was necessary because I didn't compress the 4k image)

#

(of course 4k is only like, 8mb?)

radiant moon Jan 6, 2020, 3:04 PM

#

@hushed kestrel I didn't understand that

grave gate Jan 6, 2020, 5:39 PM

#

How would I get a job? I know all this programming/RTL/PCB stuff yet I dropped out of high school because I was abused so much the entire time I was there, almost died too.

I've been thinking about getting a GED but my parents took me out of a place that I could metro travel to and they can't guarantee for an apartment back, and they disagree with my plan to temporarily be in a homeless shelter until I can get a job.

#

I'm sorry to burden.

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 5:39 PM

#

@radiant moon Did I answer your question or like ?

grave gate Jan 6, 2020, 5:45 PM

#

I keep trying to apply to places too but two said they do not have a position available, though I've sent out resumes with my Github.

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 5:45 PM

#

It depends on where you are, how old you are, how soon you need a job, what you are comfortable doing

grave gate Jan 6, 2020, 5:50 PM

#

I've been programming for 10 years yet I am 21. I've started off with MIT's Scratch 1.4 way back then I grasped Python a few years later.

Now I've gone into a circular dependency. I'm comfy with...hm. I actually need to work on what I'm comfy with. I also need to work on who and when I need to work.

I'm sorta...most comfy with Unix (macOS was my first bit I worked with) systems, which were my childhood. (think: 90's programmer who did 6502 systems, but sorta the modern-day equivalent of that)

I don't know how to verbalize it all.

#

Got played a wrong hand, basically, but I'm trying to reach out for help. 😛

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 5:53 PM

#

I mean

#

Get a resume

#

Use networking to get to a company

#

apply

#

Is the generic advice you are going to get

#

Apply to 5-10 jobs a day

#

if you have a 1% chance of being hired, you'll get a job in 3-4 weeks

grave gate Jan 6, 2020, 6:02 PM

#

Thanks, probably going to seek some other job boards besides Python/Github, I have a grasp of Erlang too which is rather high-demand (that Discord uses too)

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 6:20 PM

#

Without HS Diploma or GED, it’s going to be ultra difficult

#

So I’d see about fixing that

vapid jay Jan 6, 2020, 6:31 PM

#

How much would I need to know to be able to get a job as a Python Jr Dev

radiant moon Jan 6, 2020, 6:33 PM

#

this much ---->| |<---------

vapid jay Jan 6, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

Got it

radiant moon Jan 6, 2020, 6:34 PM

#

seriously:

#

find some job openings, see what they require.

#

if you're not sure you have what it takes, apply to one of them and see!

#

it'll be time-consuming, and possibly scary, but at least you'll know what they're looking for

#

other than that, it's hard to answer.

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 6:43 PM

#

@grave gate resume is going to be a bit short considering the lack of diploma or work experience, but put personal projects, it's something, and do cover letters, have one section talking about you, your experience in programming, what interrests you in it, etc. And have a section about the company you apply to, why you are interrested in it, and what you think you can bring to it.

#

But depending of where you are, i'd say there is a good chance you have a shot at this, even if you are junior, you learned about a lot of things already, and you don't have diploma, so can't ask for a fantastic salary (yet), but you can certainly still produce value if managed correcly (mentoring, time/task management, etc), i'm sure there are interrested companies in your area.

#

Failing that, maybe a bootcamp would allow youtto get a more conventionnal credence, and give a better sense of what to expect to companies you apply to.

#

@hushed kestrel that assumes independant probabilities, no?

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 6:55 PM

#

Lack of HS diploma in US would be of grave concern

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 6:57 PM

#

You are suggesting that companies communicate to one another like" This joker applied to us! Avoid them!" ?

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 7:07 PM

#

This can happen, but it was more like failing one interview is a bit predictive of failing another, unless of course you learn from mistakes and chances actually improve over time

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:12 PM

#

That is just updating what your nominal probability of success is

#

If you have a 0 % chance of success, you shouldn't apply.

#

But of course failing an interview is very noisy data that is hard to update your predictors

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

Ok, so on Upwork. How do you deal with a client who changes their mind and wants more additions every time you submit something to a new milestone?

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:17 PM

#

You charge more

#

You give an estimate and say "Hey, it's totally fine that you want this. I am guessing it will take x number of hours of work (with proof/ time breakdown) I can get it done for this amount of money$$.

#

or you say "I understand you want these things, I can't provide them because of x,y z"

indigo sleet Jan 6, 2020, 7:19 PM

#

Unfortunately Upwork as a platform is likely to screw you over if you do that

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

Are they?

indigo sleet Jan 6, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

Let's just say they have a reputation

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

I don't know what gdude is talking about <_ <

#

I used upwork and it seemed fine

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

You should stick to original contract

indigo sleet Jan 6, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

It's fine but there are more than a few potential clients there that have figured out how to game it

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:20 PM

#

And setup new contracts for addtional features

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 7:21 PM

#

some people are going to drag you and find a reason not to pay in the end, if they start doing this and they don't accept that it's a negociation, they are going to be bad and you should stop working for them asap

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 7:21 PM

#

Yea, I don't think I will be taking anymore fixed price jobs.

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 7:21 PM

#

Though i don't know of the particulars of upwork, i think that holds in general

indigo sleet Jan 6, 2020, 7:21 PM

#

I agree

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:22 PM

#

Fixed price is fine. Mostly your job as a freelancer is to have as clear expectations as possible for how it goes.

#

A fixed price job is a double edged sword

#

If you work faster, you make more money per hour

indigo sleet Jan 6, 2020, 7:23 PM

#

I just think that you should be as careful as possible on sites like that

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:23 PM

#

Upwork has an escrow service

#

Figure out how to modify a contract vs setting up new contracts

#

Always use escrow

#

Est

indigo sleet Jan 6, 2020, 7:24 PM

#

Unfortunately there are many, many instances of people being banned from the platform and Upwork keeping the money

#

Due to untrustworthy clients reporting work which is actually entirely fine and done correctly

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:24 PM

#

It's a US based corp, you can take them to small claims in your state if you need to and they need to represent themselves

indigo sleet Jan 6, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

And if you're not in the US?

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

you need documentation to prove you did the work

#

If you aren't in the us, get fucked.

indigo sleet Jan 6, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

Pretty much

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

Yeah.

indigo sleet Jan 6, 2020, 7:25 PM

#

I dunno, you'd have thought someone would have tried that by now

#

Anyway, I'm not saying don't use upwork, just be careful

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 7:29 PM

#

My guess is they very developer unfriendly

#

Since there is another developer to be had

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 7:31 PM

#

The funds are in escrow, but it's that the first milestone was basically an entire new thing than the original agreement after all the requested changes, completed those and moved on to the next milestone. Now it's basically the same with new request, more features etc. Normally I would say no way. But since this is my first upwork job and I'm trying to gain a reputation of good reviews im stuck in between

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 7:35 PM

#

They know that, they are taking advantage

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 7:36 PM

#

You shouldn't waste your time with it

#

Say that you want to finish your project and engage with a new one

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 7:39 PM

#

They are looking for you to have a backbone

#

If you try and appease them, you will become their bitch

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 10:01 PM

#

How bad does it hurt your upwork status to end a contract? This guy is just being beyond unreasonable in his request for changes at this point. Even after I've stated why it can't be redone for free he ask for even more changes not mentioned orginally.

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 10:03 PM

#

there is probably some way to resolve conflict on the website, but i don't know how likely they are to fairly judge in such situation, if it's clear that the requested changes are outside of the initial, mutually accepted scope, i would try it though.

#

but better ask with people more used to this platform

#

ugh https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Upwork-to-intervene-dispute/td-p/476933

#

so they basically tell you to work the find a solution to the client, or to each pay $291 to pay a 3rd party to decide who is right or wrong

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 10:09 PM

#

Idk, I think I'll just cancel it and take the loss. This platform is clearly being abused by a lot of people.

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 10:13 PM

#

popular, most likely is

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 10:14 PM

#

i can't say i'm surprised, it's not uncommon for small freelances to get abused until they get enough network and leverage to work on their own terms, even when people work together irl, on a platform like this were people from around the world try to match their needs, the power inbalance can be much greater, the potential for abuse is much greater

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 10:18 PM

#

I've heard nothing but bad things about Upwork

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 10:21 PM

#

I wouldn't even have been upset if he had asked for the changes before hand. But he waits until I submit completed work to ask for some things HE requested to have taken out, other things added, etc.

#

Maybe I'll stick with Upwork, but only hourly from now on.

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:30 PM

#

I don't think this sort of buffoonittery is like, relegated solely to upwork

#

Consultants charge a lot kinda in part to makeup for clients who try to fuck with them like this.

#

The only difference with upwork is that they aren't local and different jurisdictions is annoying to work with

#

Freelance isn't like having a job, there isn'a labor board that you can go to if you aren't getting paid.

#

You have to take time out of your day to pursue them legally if they want to make it a mess

#

This is also why there are penalty clauses

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 10:32 PM

#

it happens in the real world as well, sometime with contractors, small companies can go under because their big clients just decide to take months to pay, or to refuse paying, because once they go under, they don't need to pay anymore

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:32 PM

#

My dad ran a roof contracting business for 40 years, I know so many stories

#

Currently we( I am helping him) need to talk to 2-3 lawyers concerning different cases

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

As did mine, except he was Drywall/painting

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

Currently he is in litigation over like, 32k

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

i don't know if there is any foolproof way around that, but one thing is not to be too cheap, being cheap attracts the wrong kind of clients

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

But it is fine because the person who is supposed to pay him is out 150k + and can't stand that debt

#

Until my dad gets paid

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 10:33 PM

#

Yea, I just figured I'd start with a cheap job to get a quick review

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:34 PM

#

Koder, you shouldn't be that upset that you are getting scammed/fucked

#

Everyone who enters the industry gets fucked

#

It's a right of passage

#

TBH

#

Just minimize your mistake, reduce harm, learn, move on.

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 10:35 PM

#

it's easier to do freelancing after some time working a normal job, experience and network helps getting a better start

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:35 PM

#

Network..Eh

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 10:35 PM

#

I think people assume you are somehow desperate when you take cheap jobs. But in reality I am only looking for glaring reviews.

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:35 PM

#

I would take jobs that you can do

#

And not cheap ones

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 10:35 PM

#

for good reviews, under promise, over deliver

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:35 PM

#

Uh

#

I think people who pay more give better reviews TBH

#

Don't work with the bottom of the barrel

torpid bolt Jan 6, 2020, 10:36 PM

#

and yeah, that's probably true as well

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:36 PM

#

This is why you never sell shit for free on craigslist

little prairie Jan 6, 2020, 10:36 PM

#

If you see what this guy expected vs what I delivered you'd be shocked at the quality and that he is requesting anything further

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:36 PM

#

It attracts flippers and people who are upset that you didn't hold an item for them

#

I am not shocked

#

While(True):
  print("Give me more.")

#

Can you believe I keep getting asked from that func to give them more? Yes. Yes I can.

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 10:37 PM

#

except you are not freelancer with Upwork

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 10:37 PM

#

Some people are like that.

#

I was

shadow moss Jan 6, 2020, 10:38 PM

#

it looks to be "freelancing" but it's not

#

you are contractor to contractor

#

thus one of major issues with Upwork, they act like just job board but it's really not when you read the fine print

pulsar hedge Jan 6, 2020, 10:48 PM

#

Would it be cool if I could ask someone a few questions on their career in computer programming

hushed kestrel Jan 6, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

!ask

inner wrenBOT Jan 6, 2020, 11:03 PM

#

ask

Asking good questions will yield a much higher chance of a quick response:

• Don't ask to ask your question, just go ahead and tell us your problem.
• Don't ask if anyone is knowledgeable in some area, filtering serves no purpose.
• Try to solve the problem on your own first, we're not going to write code for you.
• Show us the code you've tried and any errors or unexpected results it's giving.
• Be patient while we're helping you.

You can find a much more detailed explanation on our website.

dark salmon Jan 6, 2020, 11:46 PM

#

how should i go about leetcode?

#

is it a good strat to tackle easy problems first topic by topic

gilded valley Jan 6, 2020, 11:59 PM

#

However you feel most comfortable doing it. If you prefer to walk through problems in ascending order of difficulty, then I'd reccomend the CodeSignal Arcade

#

which does a nice job of gamifying the progression whilst still having the same kind of problems

#

and is a much nicer experience than LeetCode IMO

dark salmon Jan 7, 2020, 12:15 AM

#

true, but i aim to get most out of it rather than doing what is most comfortable

#

i think leetcode is quite gamified as it is

#

its just...daunting

gilded valley Jan 7, 2020, 12:27 AM

#

Doing what you find comfortable is probably the best way to get the most out of it

#

of course doing easy problems for ever isn't going to be that useful

#

But as long as you're actively solving problems, you're probably making progress

#

and as soon as you stop solving them for a long time, it takes a while to get back into the flow of being able to do it

dark salmon Jan 7, 2020, 12:45 AM

#

hmm!

#

makes sense

#

good words

#

i think i should continue doing as many easy problems until i've covered data structures and algorithms

#

and then maybe move on to harder problemsz

pulsar hedge Jan 7, 2020, 1:03 AM

#

!ask Would it be cool if I could ask someone a few questions on their career in computer programming

inner wrenBOT Jan 7, 2020, 1:03 AM

#

ask

Asking good questions will yield a much higher chance of a quick response:

• Don't ask to ask your question, just go ahead and tell us your problem.
• Don't ask if anyone is knowledgeable in some area, filtering serves no purpose.
• Try to solve the problem on your own first, we're not going to write code for you.
• Show us the code you've tried and any errors or unexpected results it's giving.
• Be patient while we're helping you.

You can find a much more detailed explanation on our website.

dry sapphire Jan 7, 2020, 1:05 AM

#

so what questions are those

inner wrenBOT Jan 7, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

ask

Asking good questions will yield a much higher chance of a quick response:

• Don't ask to ask your question, just go ahead and tell us your problem.
• Don't ask if anyone is knowledgeable in some area, filtering serves no purpose.
• Try to solve the problem on your own first, we're not going to write code for you.
• Show us the code you've tried and any errors or unexpected results it's giving.
• Be patient while we're helping you.

You can find a much more detailed explanation on our website.

pulsar hedge Jan 7, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

!askQ#1: Did you have a passion for programming while in highschool or was choosing
Q#2: What were your course options while you were in highschool: why did you choose course 1 over course 2
Q#3: Would you go back in time and choose your other option
Q#4: How was your transition into university from highschool
Q#5. Do you enjoy what your doing, and do you have any advice on how to get into what your currently doing.

dry sapphire Jan 7, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

why do you keep doing that?

#

that's not what !ask is for

#

anyway, in order

pulsar hedge Jan 7, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

oh

dry sapphire Jan 7, 2020, 2:09 AM

#

no, not applicable to my country, no, ez, yes

#

just

#

start doing things

#

TBH people are different

#

I learn by doing

#

so I followed the find project - complete project - repeat cycle

pulsar hedge Jan 7, 2020, 2:17 AM

#

Don't want to be nit picky but would you mind answering with more detail cause, its for my computer science culminating and I have to show proof of our convo, so my teacher may get mad at me yoj

magic belfry Jan 7, 2020, 2:30 AM

#

Tbh your questions might be the thing needing more detail

#

Especially Q#2

#

Are you asking if the person had specifically computer science focused courses in high school? When you say course1 or course2 I can't tell if you're being intentionally generic because the first part is unclear

pulsar hedge Jan 7, 2020, 2:46 AM

#

I mean as in why did you choose computer science over persay physics, were you sure at the time you wanted to go into the field of computer science

dry sapphire Jan 7, 2020, 2:46 AM

#

uh

#

I didn't study CS...

pulsar hedge Jan 7, 2020, 2:47 AM

#

oh

#

could i ask another question instead

#

im going to come back with more detail

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:06 AM

#

I plan to go to community college for my associates then a suny school for my bachelors is that a good plan? And will I 100% meet people who will get me a job as a computer engineer at the suny school or is it only likely or something? I’m still working on this

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 5:07 AM

#

Hey! Is there a software developer here? I needed a guidance ✨

radiant moon Jan 7, 2020, 5:15 AM

#

@vapid jay I got a job while I was finishing my associate's. I never got a four-year degree.

#

I personally think four-year college is a waste of time for many people; it was for me

dry sapphire Jan 7, 2020, 5:16 AM

#

@radiant moon I respect that

#

in my country more or less everyone "has" (social pressure) to have a degree

radiant moon Jan 7, 2020, 5:16 AM

#

mine too

dry sapphire Jan 7, 2020, 5:16 AM

#

even if it's from a degree mill

#

which results in many people with qualifications but no ability

#

it's depressing.

radiant moon Jan 7, 2020, 5:17 AM

#

one of these days I plan on reading https://www.amazon.com/dp/0691196451

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:17 AM

#

sometimes it's a piece of paper to get you through the door.. other times, it's invaluable in building a network that gets you ahead

#

I actually want to get back to university to get another piece of paper :v

#

I might want a bachelors or higher in cs if I plan to ever hop companies to get better salary or something

#

Think about it this way.. regardless of actual skills, the college you go to decides how much you make on your first job

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:35 AM

#

My options for right now is community college for my associates unfortunately but I do plan on going to suny for bachelors and above

#

that's not a bad plan.. a lot of bright people got their start at suny

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:49 AM

#

Community College is a fantastic idea and I 100% wish I did it

#

I'd have $8000 less debt (:

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

how long have you had it for..

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

1.5 years

#

I graduated 2018

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

hopefully I pay off mine soon.. haha.. it's been almost 2 years..

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

yeah I'm working in the Bay

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

what's the interest rate on it

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

I can probably pay it off by end of 2022

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:50 AM

#

I hate that place.. lol..

#

so unsustainable..

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:51 AM

#

the Bay is ball sack unless you're in SF or Oakland

#

agreed

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:51 AM

#

an IBM engineer got shot in Oakland a few days ago

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:51 AM

#

I mean, being an IBM engineer is risky

#

I wouldn't openly talk about that

#

jaykekler

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:51 AM

#

ooh I wanna hear more

#

I really want to get a good career in CE with a good salary so I don’t know if community college or SUNY would be enough for that, and is it hard to get as a CE assuming nobody at suny or cc has any connections or could help me?

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

idk what SUNY is

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

it's a university..

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

oh New York?

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

with plenty of immigrant competition..

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

isn't SUNY a top 10 program?

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:52 AM

#

anyways.. there's the general routes: 1. Connections 2. Skills... or 3. a combination of both

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

unless SUNY is a top 10 program I wouldn't stress and just go to CC first

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

If you don't go to a top university, 2. is your best bet, while you try to build 1.

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:53 AM

#

I was gonna say earlier, the only time I think going straight to a University is worth it value wise is if you have a direct shot at STEM in a top 10 school for your respective major

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

then when your 1. is built, after 2 years, you can make the pivot to a better company on 2. again but this time, using 1. to get your foot through a lot of doors (landing, failing, passing interviews)

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

but if you're just going to a state college or something, why the fuck waste the money on 4 years lmao

#

it's so expensive

#

I went to state college for 4 years and it is hands down the worst financial decision I ever made

#

I mean, sorta. I did get a degree and have a great job

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

he's going to community college, I'm guessing the idea is to use the credits and get admitted to a state college at another year

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:54 AM

#

yeah that's normal

#

Go to CC for $1000 total and then go to Uni

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:55 AM

#

I think he's offline

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:55 AM

#

and CC is probably gonna be easier than Uni so you might even be able to get over 30 credits in a year

#

he was having a crisis about college and got offline when someone who just did this was gonna give him advice

#

WaitWhat

#

anyway

#

bay area

#

yeah, fun place for rn but I would not wanna be here past 30

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

yeah.. I hear that

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

I was looking at property and the cheapest thing I saw was 850sq/ft for $800,000 in SF

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

@vapid jay read up

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

and it is previously condemned

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

man.. hell with SF

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:56 AM

#

it's fun to live while I'm renting not gonna lie

#

but in like 2-3 years when I wanna buy a house or just have some space to myself there's no way I could live here

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:57 AM

#

bridge with most suicides in the US.. guess

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:57 AM

#

however, there's a lot of options within a 40 minute commute of downtown outside of SF

#

Oakland is pretty reasonable still, low 300s for homes and then there's East Bay

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:57 AM

#

my commute to work is 15 minutes

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:58 AM

#

I like my commute (:

#

I can read

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:58 AM

#

reasonable, but lack of security.. politics at work.. lot of things to juggle

#

I dropped my phone my bad xD

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:58 AM

#

gucci blobthumbsup

#

15 minutes was my commute back in Pennsylvania

#

at my first job

#

it was nice, but that place suuuuucked

#

boring code

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

what context

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

Defense Industry

#

:p

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

ooooh

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

Java 8

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 5:59 AM

#

boooo

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:00 AM

#

then I updated my linked in and this place in SF hmu and swept me off my feet

#

now I'm looking for the real move since I'm in the Bay lmao

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:00 AM

#

I remember this defense contract we used to have..

#

then people in the company got mad at it was dropped

#

I don’t know if I’m able to get connections, maybe it’s just bc I don’t know what it’s like or if there will b anyone there who could help and get a connection, I think I assume that there won’t b any since I don’t know what it’s like, and that I would need skills though I’m still really super new to python and coding so I don’t know what a good route or advice to get a higher chance of getting a job that pays well

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:00 AM

#

do you need connections at SUNY because of immigration?

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:00 AM

#

the code and infrastructure still resides in the code base.. and whenever you run it, you'll alert the Feds.. so there's warnings all over in comments because of it

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:01 AM

#

also, all the jobs related to CS/SE/EE pay well

#

even the defense industry is starting pay around $70k in low cost of living areas

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:01 AM

#

EE is harder to land.. standards are higher

#

Ee?

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:01 AM

#

you're not even in college, you literally have no reason to worry about getting a job yet

#

electrical engineering

#

spooky magic shit

#

they're wizards with too much alcohol

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:02 AM

#

Your right, but I really want to move out of my house for personal reasons so I guess I’m pressured about moving out I guess haha

#

my background is EE

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:02 AM

#

yeah I feel that, I grew up in South Carolina

#

but like I said, I went to a university you have never heard of

#

and I had no issues getting a job before graduating

#

and I was subpar as a student

#

3.25 GPA

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:03 AM

#

that's why I said.. it's easier to break into CS

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:03 AM

#

yeah, CS is the degree I'd recommend for most people

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:03 AM

#

EE jobs demand par excellence.. lest you electrocute someone

#

How did you get the job was it connections and how exactly was the connection was it someone who come to present or was it a student who knew some1?

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:03 AM

#

nope no connections

#

I just applied to 120 different companies

#

and over 300 job positions in total

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

I landed a job in CS after my masters.. so I can't recommend to you the path I took.. but it was projects that got me noticed and interviewed

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

Yeah, projects did get me noticed. We talked about them fairly extensively in all my onsite interviews

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

Can anyone tell me what does a software developer need to do?

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:04 AM

#

I write code all day

#

and get told what we need by a manager

#

and then figure out what we actually need

#

rinse and repeat

#

and that's just as a Level 2 jaykekler

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

as a Data Scientist/Engineering manager I write code when I feel like it:p

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

^they tell me what they need

#

and then I decipher what they really need

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

level 2 huh.. interesting.. google's SWE starts at level 3

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

Do we need to to learn AI or ML to be a software engineer

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

@halcyon plank no

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

yeah my company level 1 is google level 3

#

we dont level our interns

#

they're just interns

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

forget the AI and ML till you're a good SWE

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

we dont have levels here

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:05 AM

#

do you have litter boxes.. cat

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:06 AM

#

ehhh, idk about that @vapid jay

#

it seems like AI/ML engineering is going the way of SRE/DevOps

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:06 AM

#

Are the projects you do available for anyone to do or is it different sorry if I ask so many questions ♪( ´▽｀)

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:06 AM

#

sorta becoming its own practice in the field all together

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:06 AM

#

And how to be a software engineer

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:06 AM

#

it does.. but the data science aspect is not possible to get right without a background in maths /stats..

#

but deploying ML yes, it's a big industry

#

DevOps taking the lead

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

@halcyon plank go to school and enjoy programming

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

write and practice a lot

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

also, being flexible helps a lot

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

Actually am learning python now..completed the basics..data structures and algorithms..& now what to do next?

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:07 AM

#

what Tron and I are talking about right now is a pretty damn good example

#

theres some people who will only do one type of work as developers

#

and they legit refuse to go into DevOps or ML stuff

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

leetcode.. practice for coding interviews @halcyon plank

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

What actually a a software engineer does? How is he different from software developer?

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

and theres people in DevOps and ML who are the same

#

its not

#

same thing

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

im actually trying to get into devops myself

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

software engineers and developers do the same job, just different title at different companies

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:08 AM

#

I find I enjoy doing those things more than actually coding

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

Do they make desktop applications @heavy plover?

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

yeah, you should look for DevOps Engineer, SRE, and ITOps roles

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

I'm trying to learn more devops.. man data engineering sure is getting harder with more expectations..

#

it's like full stack..

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

sure, that's one job a Software Dev/Eng might have

#

that's called Application developer usually

#

so you'd be a Software Developer in App Development if the company is very formal

#

most companies are not that formal though

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:09 AM

#

thats my current job title "application developer" yet im making a ecommerce site 😦

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

most companies expect you to cover a lot of bases.. so whack

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

yeah, the best thing you can do as a developer is just be flexible

#

it'll give you a better resume in the long run :p

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

that's why you should stick with large tech companies.. good pay.. very concise responsibilities

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

should have joined a tech company but non tech was offering more $$$

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:10 AM

#

yeah, at my first company out of college I interviewed for Software Engineer on a Java team, and they offered me Ops Developer on a infrastructure team

#

and it turned out to be a SRE team

#

which was really neat

#

however, didn't do much coding in the traditional sense

#

did a ton of terraform, ansible, scripting, etc

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:11 AM

#

So what should I learn to be an application developer?

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:11 AM

#

huh. My first job after uni was with startups

#

im actually now at my first non startup company

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:11 AM

#

what's ansible for

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:12 AM

#

And are there different titles for mobile application & desktop application

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:12 AM

#

for setting up servers iirc

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:12 AM

#

in terms of Python, learn Django and Flask. Learn why one is better than the other, don't be afraid to be opinionated about them

#

@halcyon plank yes. Android/IOS Dev generally, or Software Dev in Mobile App Development or something similar

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

What do we call a person who develops apps for desktop say “Skype” ?

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

Web developer

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

lol

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

Potato

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

Skype is a web application.

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:13 AM

#

Ansible is for everything after an OS is installed

#

so you would use Terraform, CloudFormation, etc to talk to your cloud environment

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:14 AM

#

I don't have any experience with it

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:14 AM

#

and build your infrastructure

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:14 AM

#

Isn’t a web developer one which makes websites

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:14 AM

#

then you would use Ansible or Chef to configure all the instances and make them pretty

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:14 AM

#

@halcyon plank electron exists

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:14 AM

#

Web Devs do make websites sure

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 6:14 AM

#

No, it's someone who develops for the web.

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:15 AM

#

but they generally will have similar if not the same skills as a App Developer or Mobile developer

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 6:15 AM

#

But for most purposes the term Web developer is pertaining to websites

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:15 AM

#

all developers essentially do similar things

#

but they use different frameworks

#

and different environments

#

so if I'm developing for android I am not going to use the same framework as someone developing for a desktop website

#

but that doesn't mean they can't both use Python or JavaScript, etc

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 6:15 AM

#

Sometimes you might

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:15 AM

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sometimes yeah

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but also

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if you don't even know how to code

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this makes no sense

mint citrus Jan 7, 2020, 6:16 AM

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ill be using dart/fluter for the app at work

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:16 AM

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and you have no clue what a framework is yet

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so i don't think worrying about any of this is going to help you right now @halcyon plank

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stick with learning Python, and if you wanna build a desktop app with Python that's great

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do that for now

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and overtime you'll learn what a framework and stuff is

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:22 AM

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Is it normal to feel like you won’t be able to understand coding when you first start python and coding?

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sure.. it takes time

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and practice

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I try 2 practice every day like I try 2 complete a chapter of Think Python a day

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:24 AM

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oh that's me all the time

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I still don't think I'll be good enough (:

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Anxiety's a bitch aint it

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:24 AM

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I had that all the time..

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Yeah

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people around me were geniuses.. it took a while to get over it

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because it meant getting over myself

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:25 AM

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but real talk, as someone who did not have a computer until I was 13 and literally never built a computer or anything before deciding to be CS in college

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you'll be fine

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CS made me realize I can learn anything if I just keep doing it enough

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CS and Differential Equations

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:26 AM

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DS made me realize.. I just need to solve problems and not know everything

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:26 AM

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stupid 89 in that class shoulda been a 90 thepump

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:26 AM

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Thank you, all this advice is rlly helpful (^ω^)

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it was anxiety that actually made me quit CS back in college..

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:26 AM

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same, switched to accounting for 1 semester

halcyon plank Jan 7, 2020, 6:26 AM

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Ok @heavy plover! Thanks ✨😬

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:26 AM

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but I realized I liked coding lmao

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so i switched back

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:27 AM

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so I did a stint in energy, still did programming as part of it, for a couple of years before doing masters and doing DS

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:27 AM

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@halcyon plank yeah np, legit if you are already coding and stuff now and you're not even in school you're gonna do great probably. that's more than a lot of people do haha

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:27 AM

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if you start now.. you'll be way ahead

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:27 AM

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my university had concentrations for our undergrad so I actually did 3 400 level (senior) classes in DS

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I did computer vision, machine learning theory, and data analysis

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all 3 used MatLab, wish it was Python, but still pretty cool imo

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ML theory though was blobsweat

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did like PCA vs LDA analysis and stuff in that course. As in reading the 80 page papers and giving our own reports on them

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:29 AM

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yeah.. those are pretty basic stuff ^^"

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:30 AM

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🔫

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:30 AM

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and matlab is not really used in production for ml cases.. I've yet to see one anywhere..

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:30 AM

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nah, just purely academic

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but still, cool courses to do

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but if I understand correctly in the real world a lot of ML engineers are using DeepRacer or SageMaker from AWS to do their work now

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:30 AM

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it's used widely in core engineering labs though..

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sagemaker yes.. some people who are tied to aws

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:31 AM

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yeah

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not saying literally doing their work, but it's a tool now

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or whatever the GCP/Azure equivalents are

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:31 AM

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that's another story..

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AWS came first.. and locked people in

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:32 AM

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i went to the AWS Loft in downtown SF and got to do their ML Days

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it's a 2 day ML course for AWS partners

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work let me go, was neat

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got to build some apps with SageMaker and DeepRacer

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but it is definitely sort of them trying to keep you locked into AWS

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:32 AM

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a lot of my friends work at AWS.. i'm not really a fan.. they're very predatory in terms of how they try to monopolize the market

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exactly

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:33 AM

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lmao predatory isn't even the right word I think

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:33 AM

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those are typical tactics from IBM.. locking users in

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well english isn't my first language:p I try

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:33 AM

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they're literally so fucking big now they just copy shit

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haha no no you used the word correctly

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but predatory is too nice of a word for what they're doing

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:33 AM

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that's kinda how Amazon started building their own inventory

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:33 AM

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they are so big they literally will copy other people now and you can't do anything about it

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:33 AM

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in ecommerce I mean

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:33 AM

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they have way too many lawyers

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CloudFormation is a great example

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:33 AM

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like, they would copy successful products and kick their vendors off.. now they can sell successful shit for cheap

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:34 AM

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it is basically trying to do what HashiCorp has already done very well

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and whats even crazier is HashiCorp Terraform configs work in CloudFormation

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but if you were just a AWS devops person you would probably not even know about Terraform

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or know that other cloud vendors have the ability to automate infrastructure

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you'd think cloudformation is some super unique feature of AWS

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and it literally isn't even the best way to automate infrastructure for AWS, terraform does it much nicer and has more feature

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but like you said, it's AWS so they can do whatever and lock you in

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sorry, end rant

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 6:38 AM

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it's okay.. I was just reading some gcp stuff on the side

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anyways.. that's why I'm opposed to AWS.. GCP first preference.. second is azure..

heavy plover Jan 7, 2020, 6:41 AM

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Azure has grown on me. Microsoft is trying hard again and it's showing. Their products have all around gotten better

shut geyser Jan 7, 2020, 7:03 AM

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Is Google Cloud products up to par with Azure and AWS ?

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When i read articles about them, it always looks like the subtext is they're trying to get up to speed with aws and azure

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But as i don't work with any i can't have an idea

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 7:12 AM

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they're easier to use and cheaper

little prairie Jan 7, 2020, 7:12 AM

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I prefer Google Cloud for PostgreSQL database hosting

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And as he stated, it's much easier. It seems AWS is intentionally difficult for security reasons

shut geyser Jan 7, 2020, 7:33 AM

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Ok thanks!

balmy mural Jan 7, 2020, 1:26 PM

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Hey guys, currently my finances are fine for this semester in tuition, but due to some unexpected financial expenses the past month I'm going to struggle with my finances next semester. Which direction and which language would be the fastest way to start earning some money on the side with freelance jobs while I'm studying?

vast shoal Jan 7, 2020, 1:32 PM

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Do you have any programming experience at all?

balmy mural Jan 7, 2020, 1:41 PM

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I am studying computer science and do have about 6 months of on/off programming experience in python

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 1:48 PM

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@vast shoal is computer science good for the future ?

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a friend told me is worthless and shit illuminati

vast shoal Jan 7, 2020, 1:50 PM

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I would say that generally speaking, it's a very future-proof education. IT infrastructure is growing all the time and there's huge demand for people to build software to support it. It's going to take a long time for software developers to become redundant. It tends to pay very well, the working environment is comfortable and the hours are good.

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So I think your friend probably has no idea what they are talking about.

torpid bolt Jan 7, 2020, 1:58 PM

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my advice is not to consider the opinion of people who talk about the illuminaties

amber shell Jan 7, 2020, 2:15 PM

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Aws has bunch of tools/apis you won’t use or bother, And aws is more expensive
Cloud is not about you pay what you use
it is rather you pay what you forget to use

vast shoal Jan 7, 2020, 2:16 PM

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@balmy mural I'm not sure whether it's feasible for you or not, but full stack webdev is usually in high demand. So JS/TS frontend frameworks, Node.js, HTML/CSS, backend frameworks like Django, Flask, Ruby on Rails, etc., and SQL/databases might be a viable route.

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It's a lot to learn in short order, though.

gilded valley Jan 7, 2020, 2:21 PM

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My reccomendation would also be too look for summer internships between academic years, for some of the bigger companies the salaries are very good

shadow moss Jan 7, 2020, 2:31 PM

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Jr Full Stack Devs are generally not a thing

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not that full stack devs should be a thing either

balmy mural Jan 7, 2020, 2:40 PM

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I have some experience in HTML and CSS and I have completed a course on Flask middle last year, I have about 7 months before the second semester starts and fees don't have to be immediately payed. I believe I should be able to get to a point to do some freelance work by that time. Thanks @vast shoal

vast shoal Jan 7, 2020, 2:41 PM

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@candid venture No, I'm afraid we don't allow recruitment on this server.

vapid jay Jan 7, 2020, 3:42 PM

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isn't scary to forget these python's commands ?

torpid bolt Jan 7, 2020, 3:54 PM

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you forget what you don't use, that's how the brain works

hushed kestrel Jan 7, 2020, 4:45 PM

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I've recently seen people asking for 'Full stack recent graduates '

meager oriole Jan 7, 2020, 4:46 PM

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where?

gilded valley Jan 7, 2020, 4:46 PM

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It seems to me that that means someone who can write Node and React

hushed kestrel Jan 7, 2020, 4:46 PM

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job boards

shut geyser Jan 7, 2020, 4:47 PM

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I'm looking at job ads in Netherlands and i see this kind of stuff

meager oriole Jan 7, 2020, 4:48 PM

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I'm looking for in UK (hampshire) and there is nothing

shut geyser Jan 7, 2020, 4:48 PM

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Junior with 3 years of experience in [ EVERYTHING ]

meager oriole Jan 7, 2020, 4:48 PM

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oh yes there are but seniors

shut geyser Jan 7, 2020, 4:49 PM

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I see junior with basically devops + front + sometimes all the hadoop spark thing

gilded valley Jan 7, 2020, 5:09 PM

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London and the South East are the main places where there seem to be tech jobs going in England

meager oriole Jan 7, 2020, 5:10 PM

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i'm on that are

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area*

gilded valley Jan 7, 2020, 5:11 PM

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Brighton has lots of startups/hipster tech, Guildford has lots of games stuff. Then London is one of the tech capitals of the world. I've only really looked at grad jobs and internships, but there seem to be plenty of options for applying

shadow moss Jan 7, 2020, 5:52 PM

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Sinthrill, as SRE, that's scary

radiant moon Jan 7, 2020, 6:01 PM

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all I know about Brighton is what I learned from "Quadrophenia" 🙂

gilded valley Jan 7, 2020, 6:22 PM

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Brighton is quite a nice place - but definitely the most hipster place in the UK. I think its not for everyone, but can definitely be a very nice place to work