career-advice

[spice warren]

true, sorry about that

[unreal linden]

np

[gilded valley]

I have 30 days to accept or reject a summer internship - there are others I'd prefer, but I'm much earlier in the process with them. How sketchy is it to accept the offer, then pull out later? In my mind it seems like an obviously wrong thing to do - I'm guessing its a pretty terrible idea

[indigo sleet]

You have 30 days, why rush to accept?

[gilded valley]

Well - the others are months away before I get or don't get an offer

so i'll definitely wait for the 30 days, but all other interviews/assesment-centres would be after christmas

[shadow moss]

Piers Morgan, not sketchy at all, you got better offer and thus you took it

your parents/others may have instilled some "You should be respectful and such when dealing with employers" which is true

but too many times, respect become gratitude

you are exchanging skill for cash, it's ultimately a business transaction and anyone who gets emotional involved in business transaction loses

and yes, interns provide something for business, it becomes a way to cheaply interview employees, if they are not a great fit, just let them go when terms expires

[gilded valley]

I'm still not a fan of doing it - but the fact its feasible to drop out down the line is good

[shadow moss]

my much older self advice to you is "Get over not a fan" thing

truth is, it likely won't matter period

and if intern is good fit, you got trained employee for what is relatively dirt cheap

because when you hire normal developer, you have to pay for their salary while they get up to speed

[gilded valley]

Yeah, I'm comfortable with the internship just being 10ish weeks of training/a-really-long-interview. I just don't like the idea messing the employer about. Although, you're right and theres no reason I owe some random corporation anything

[shadow moss]

loyalty to companies is how workers get screwed

and I'm speaking with American lenses, if you are elsewhere, that might be different

[gilded valley]

I'm in the UK - but I get the feeling American and UK corporate culture are pretty similar

[shadow moss]

but point about respect is still solid

if you end up taking internship with Company A then Company B comes along with better offer, you are respectful but you are like "Dear $recruiter of Company A, Thank you for offer of internship with Company A but I must decline. Thank you for considering me and I hope we have opportunity to work together in future. Sincerely, Piers Morgan"

actually from my UK counterparts, you have guys have contracts which are wierd

in US, it's mostly at-will which means either party can terminate the employment for any reason at any time, it's supposed to be liberating for employee but it's mostly used by employer to screw over employee

[tired garden]

@unreal linden Ok thanks for the advice really tho i need all the help i can get so thanks!

[unreal linden]

yea no problem

[loud marsh]

I would like to be a developper without CS degree ( I have degree in something else)
And I would like to create github with projects, but tbh I don't know what kind of project is worthy to put on resume. Any ideas?

[rancid pulsar]

what have you made so far that you think would be fitting for an employer to look at?

[loud marsh]

tbh I didn't do much ,I'm just starting out basically

I just did like 1 very quick ''project'' just for fun for personal use few months ago, but thats about it

[shadow moss]

pypypy33, any project is better then none

[loud marsh]

I guess, but it's not many lines of code.. it's like around 80-120 lines of code only

[shadow moss]

would you build on it?

look, all code has mistakes and isn't 100%, best answer to "Who wrote the worst code you have ever seen?" is "Mine"

[rancid pulsar]

no mine

[shadow moss]

other thing is just show commits to your project

[rancid pulsar]

:))

[shadow moss]

I hate my discord bot code, I have no classes, where I put certain functions is in wrong frameworks

my bot handling is becoming this disasterous if/elif/else nightmare

[loud marsh]

well it a small project to show a graph of imdb rating of tv shows. So use an IMDB api and user enters the name of his tv show and it shows a line graph of ratings per episodes of the show. Not sure if I can build on that project much. So I'm thinking about making a whole project that is worth putting on resume

[rancid pulsar]

my first program was a rock/paper/scissors that was terminal and used like 9+ if statements which had a nested function

[loud marsh]

should I try to make a small game or something like that? or that would be too complex?

[shadow moss]

pypypy33, create discord bot that does that

no one gives a crap what it does, just that it does something

[rancid pulsar]

if it works, ship it

[loud marsh]

what u mean discord bot that does that?

oh you mean the imdb thing?

[shadow moss]

like I go !episoderating Friends and IMDB Bot spits out that

or build API that returns average/median/average per season

[loud marsh]

no idea how discord bots works tho, is it complex and would the imdb thing into a bot worth putting on resume?

[shadow moss]

anything that writes code is worth putting on resume

[cyan torrent]

if you have to ask, then it's probably worth it

once you have too much that you can start kicking out the ones you're less happy about then you're at that stage

[shadow moss]

my discord bot I'm not 100% is on my resume

[opal grotto]

people who switch jobs on avg of every 2 years make more money than people who stay at the same company

[shadow moss]

but I use Azure Cosmos/Azure ServiceBus and in interviews I can talk about why I have 7 services that make up single bot

why did I go with Azure CosmosDB and Azure ServiceBus

why my parameters are kept in JSON file and why didn't pick something more crazy?

Why am I process of porting them to database

or stupid mistake I once made

My favorite commit message: bug fix, don't declare variable same as modules

[loud marsh]

also can I only focus on python to get dev jobs? Like there is so much they ask for in job applications. Looks like I need to know everything, so overwhelming

[cyan torrent]

most of the time you get to choose as long as it's part of their tech stack

if you're applying to a company w/o that lang in their stack that's your fault

[loud marsh]

so if I go with python, I could only apply for back-end jobs right ?

[shadow moss]

as SRE, I know two most common P languages commonly used in my tech stack

Python/Powershell

most web front end is JS these days

and if they hate themselves, so is backend (NodeJS)

C#/Java is good if you want to waste your life away as corporate drone writing code (but money isn't bad, job security can be rock solid)

[rancid pulsar]

java 😦

[shadow moss]

still a ton of it out there running

and it's still taught in a ton of universities

[rancid pulsar]

not saying its a bad language

its just more complex than python

in terms of syntax

[shadow moss]

it's not a bad language, everything around it is complete shit

Jenkins, Struts, Tomcat, Gradle

[rancid pulsar]

'hello world' in java isn't very friendly to look at for new programmers

[shadow moss]

💩 , massive 💩 , 🤦 🔫 , 🔥

[loud marsh]

so if I would like to be developper , should I spend my time learning python or java to get my foot in the door as quickly as possible?
I know the basics of python and the basics of java, but not expert in any

[shadow moss]

java will get you corporate jobs

someone somewhere will pay you write code in cubicle

you will be Peter Gibbins

[rancid pulsar]

lol

the money isnt bad but if you want to become a programmer for money and solely for that

that's not a very fun way to live imo

considering you work 9-5 5 days a week

[shadow moss]

very little "work" programming is

I need you to do estimating in hours in JIRA followed by 3 scrum meetings and then write API so this shit B2B application that is timesheet software will work

[cyan torrent]

if you wanna be a developer just pick javascript

only 9,999,999 web dev jobs

[shadow moss]

not to mention, you write some NodeJS

[rancid pulsar]

ye its really easy to find work as JS

[shadow moss]

SRE will plot your death on daily basis but meh

[rancid pulsar]

remote, on site, freelance

[cyan torrent]

js king of unfilled jobs atm

[shadow moss]

just stick into containers with 15 NPM calls

Our front end developer during any deployment: Me: 🤨 Server:

[loud marsh]

well what kind of jobs are more interesting with python ?

why java is boring and python isn't?

[rancid pulsar]

its a matter of preference really

[shadow moss]

most developing jobs is just business applications

[rancid pulsar]

for people that didn't learn any programming in college though, python is easier cus the nature of the syntax

and all they need to do is learn the core concepts

[shadow moss]

it's mindless work, just developing stuff in teams so pointless people can press buttons and more pointless things happen

Hell, look at Google GSuite

there is some cool technical stuff going there but you are ultimately building a spreadsheet software, or email software

[cyan torrent]

I don't think java is... boring... it just has a lot of annoyances

[rancid pulsar]

unless you're doing machine learning

[cyan torrent]

like if I had to do java without intellij I'd die because intellij writes like 80% of the silly stuff for me

[rancid pulsar]

lol ^

[cyan torrent]

really really long calls, getters and setters for everything thank god for checkboxes

[rancid pulsar]

learn python, then google every other programming language later while abusing modern day editors

ez full stack

[cyan torrent]

but yeah core concepts are really transferrable

stackoverflow "how do I implement x in y"

[loud marsh]

what kind of jobs are ''more fun'' then?

[cyan torrent]

depends on the person

but as for like low-fun awards, C++ and Java are the kings of spinning in your chair and getting absolutely nothing done in a corporate environment

[rancid pulsar]

well put

[cyan torrent]

C++ wasn't there originally

but then I heard of the oracle fiasco

and now it's there

[rancid pulsar]

we could be bias since you know, this is the python discord. ask around, get some info, do some research

[cyan torrent]

but yeah the above are "low fun" at times because sometimes you get like absolutely nothing done for months on end. Like you can write maybe 4 lines of code in a month.

The giant corporate churn.

[reef marsh]

@cyan torrent let's not use the r word here, can you edit your message?

Thank you

[cyan torrent]

huh?

gotcha

[reef marsh]

It is considered a suggestive and offensive message, not nice toward people with disabilities

[cyan torrent]

edited thanks

just couldn't find it for a sec

[primal sundial]

Hello good morning everybody,
I got a call for interview, she asked I should know about data structures and algorithms?, what she mean by that? Like I should know the theory and definitions?

It's for python internship

[loud marsh]

I mean you could just code in java without getting a corporate job, no?

[reef marsh]

Data structures is often a considered basic knowledge and is something you will use in a daily basic - this include, but not exclusive to, list, dictionary, nested dictionary / list, tuples, set

Algorithm refers to knowing how to deal with data, for example, how you can implement a sorting algorithm to sort your data, if there is no such available tools out of the bat

[primal sundial]

Oh like list, tuple, dict? I thought stack, queue map 😅

[reef marsh]

Stack and queue / hash map are types of data structures as well

[primal sundial]

Okay that means I need to be ready for list comp and dict comp, generators?

[rancid pulsar]

maybe panda

[cyan torrent]

check glassdoor or other job sites for interview questions lol

(or ask your friends)

[reef marsh]

It's more about how you can read / manipulate data in data structures, for example```py
data_input = {
'a': 1,
'b': 2,
'c': 1
}

data_output = {
1: ['a', 'c'],
2: ['b']
}```knowing how to turn data_input to data_output

[primal sundial]

Oh

I need to read python book

BTW shirayuki what will be the output

1,1?

[reef marsh]

The output is data_output, in the example given above, you are only given data_input

Your job is to create data_output that looks like in the example, where you turn values into keys, and group various keys with the same values into a list, into value of the new key

[primal sundial]

Oh like that

[reef marsh]

From data_input you have 'a' and 'c' keys both have 1 as value, then in the data_output you have to create a dictionary that has 1 as the key, with ['a', 'c'] as value

[primal sundial]

Like dry

[reef marsh]

This can be used as a small interview question

[rancid pulsar]

if it runs, ship it

[reef marsh]

Knowing how to write it the pythonic / performant way is a plus, but at the very least, demonstrate the ability to transform and manipulate given data

[primal sundial]

During interview if I don't know something I should clearly say them I don't know? Or should give a answer which isn't correct?

[rancid pulsar]

you arent allowed to google?

[reef marsh]

It is always better to say you are lacking knowledge in said field rather than trying to guess. Lacking knowledge can be reacquired later

[primal sundial]

Moslty time I say never got chance to use this library

not allowed to Google

Problem is i am working on Django and react native, so I am blur with python

[reef marsh]

For example, I've seen my dept lead asked people if they know how to index an SQL table / how to concurrent, some does not know about it and my lead actually happily answered and gave them the knowledge

[rancid pulsar]

be coachable

[primal sundial]

Can I say that if I don't know I always Google and check stackoverflow?

Which I do in current internship

[rancid pulsar]

dont tell them programmers secrets

[primal sundial]

😂

[cyan torrent]

they might want you to justify one type of DS/A over another too

and give reasons why

or they'll suggest a better/worse DS/A and ask you to justify why

[primal sundial]

I will watch Corey schafer video to bursh up my python

Thank you shirayuki and everyone

[rancid pulsar]

gl in your interview

[primal sundial]

Thanks 🙌

[mint dock]

k7

oops..

[vapid grail]

Good luck Akash

[drowsy plank]

Okie

https://github.com/LawrenceB5477

There’s mine

[rare sand]

so, there's a lot of repos, but they have like 1 or 2 files in them and they're not really projects.

[drowsy plank]

Yah that is an issue

[rare sand]

there's no README, there are no issues, it's just one-off scripts.

you've also dabbled in a million different things here

might be better to have a more focused github

[drowsy plank]

Yeah...

Focused?

[rare sand]

here's mine

[drowsy plank]

I guess my issue is I get sidetracked

And switch stuff

[rare sand]

I got 1200+ contributions and they're all Python. They're mostly open source, they're projects with many stars.

it looks good

[drowsy plank]

I haven’t found something really cool yet

[rare sand]

yeah. it's great to find a community and to focus on working with that community

doesn't have to be this one

lots of great little communities out there that would benefit from a bot and a website

and some tools

be that guy

be the guy who walks in and says, you know what, I'm a programmer, and I'm gonna make you guys a bunch of great shit

people will think you're a warlock

[rancid pulsar]

lol

[drowsy plank]

Interesting

[rare sand]

although, that said, we have a lot of open source projects here on PyDis, and many of them need help

[drowsy plank]

I should probably stick with one language...

[rare sand]

https://github.com/python-discord

literally hundreds of open issues here

and we're more than happy to onboard you and hold your hand

[drowsy plank]

I don’t need too much hand holding I think

I’m a decent programmer

Just need more focus IG

[rare sand]

even better.

[drowsy plank]

I’ll take a look at the issues and see if anything catches my eye

Thanks man I really appreciate the help

[rare sand]

always looking for decent programmers to help us out. there' pretty much an unlimited list of things to do here

oh and dude

[drowsy plank]

But if you wanna see an actual project, check out the Cminus-compiler and the red black tree on my GitHub

Those are bigger

[rare sand]

do #517745814039166986 this year

it's starting in an hour and a half

a little puzzle every day up until christmas

make a github repo with your solutions

great way to hone your craft.

[inland kiln]

What kind of job do you get after learning python

Like there are so many things with python web development using django, machine learning ,automation

Games and probably bunch of other things I can’t think of right now

Also So how do you decide which area you wanna go In or do you just learn it all and then try and get a job in whichever field you can

[echo talon]

@inland kiln depends on your knowledge

You will do what you can with your powers

[inland kiln]

That’s what I’m asking generally when one learns python does he learn everything in it or just some of the thumbs

Things * @echo talon

[echo talon]

In what grade are you in?

[vapid jay]

Anyone know any places where I can get a remote python job?

[echo talon]

@inland kiln In what grade are you in?

at achool

[inland kiln]

College

2nd year

[echo talon]

wow

Cool

U are learning python?

[inland kiln]

Not in college

On my own

[echo talon]

What are u studying in college?

Like

[inland kiln]

Bachelors in computer applications

[echo talon]

Wow that’s insane bro

Also I have literally same plans

You have good grades right?

[inland kiln]

If you meant programming wise then I learned c++ in first and second sem and 3rs sem HTML CSS and all

Above average

You in school rn?

[echo talon]

wtf u are smart

[inland kiln]

Not really

[echo talon]

I’m in 9th grade, next year highschool

I am thinking about programming

But it’s hard but I don’t want give up

[inland kiln]

If you really like programming and study other than what you’re taught in school or college it’ll be fun and easy

[vapid jay]

Im in 12th Grade, started out since 10th grade.

One of my mistakes initially was going for a harder language with no one to teach me except SoloLearn. I think I was limited by my own capacity to learn at that time but then eventually things just started clicking and making sense.

It takes time but eventually you get the grasp of things and you realize how programming in general works.

[finite pendant]

Yeah I started ~1.5 years ago and seriously around half a year ago. It does take some time but when it clicks it's very nice :)

My programs still arent super good but atleast I can make them now

[final thistle]

keep it up

[inland kiln]

Even I started in 12th grade but I didn’t try to learn anything outside from my books

Now since past few months I’ve been learning from wherever possible hopefully in next 1-2 yrs by the time I graduate I’ll be good enough

[idle elbow]

Do you guys think that computer science degrees are really good?

[radiant moon]

me personally? Not really

I don't have one (I don't have any degree at all in fact) and hold my own with guys who have CS degrees

[gilded valley]

Getting a degree is a way for employers to certify that you are somewhat capable. Its often the easiest way into a job. Whether its worth it or not is probably dependant on your country, your financial situation, and your level of motivation.

[radiant moon]

https://www.amazon.com/Case-against-Education-System-Waste/dp/0691196451/

[gilded valley]

Seems entirely like a book used for self justification

Also, from the description, the author seems to have a fundamental misunderstand of why employers require a degree

[rancid pulsar]

For employers, a college degree is the most recognizable signal of potential and discipline to finish a task. Especially at a time when recruiters complain that workers lack critical soft skills — the ability to solve problems, work in teams and communicate — college is seen as the place that develops such competencies, although the degree is certainly no guarantee that a student actually possesses them.

[unkempt relic]

What’s better app development or web development?

Also where is it to easily get a job

[mint citrus]

you dont "easily" get jobs

you work hard to get qualified to get a job

app development/web development is the same thing just different tools and processes

neither is better or worse

[shadow moss]

degree requirement is also due to online job posting allowing people to blanket recruiters with apps

as much as screaming would start, I think a system where you paid buck or two to submit an application to an company would be great

[cyan cipher]

i feel so hyped up on programming and i start looking at the job market around here which is basically zilch.

[bitter slate]

so in future i want to be a dev in some company as python programmer, but im scared that i won't be too good, or that projects will exceed

Can you give me some tips, and tell me how work as real programmer looks? Im focused on python

[bitter slate]

if you have job as python developer and you can dm me then i will be thankful

[wind oriole]

im learning python

how to improve at it

?

[bitter slate]

just train

[mint citrus]

🚆

not really a career question tho

[vapid jay]

Who works as a programmer

[tender thicket]

me

[rancid pulsar]

I thought you replied to yourself for a second there

[solemn lily]

Hi

I'm new

I've been learning python for a week

[spare ore]

oh man I need a job folks

[vapid jay]

@tender thicket I want to know more about your job

If you don’t mind

I’m really interested

how do you keep your focus over a long coding test

like.. several hours long

[tender thicket]

Python-based backend, with a heavy smothering of frontend web work, scripting, automation, and integration

I interface with wordpress, process spreadsheets, manage several different frontends and manage our deployment scripts and systems

We mostly use django with WSGI and nginx, but there's a lot more techs involved

[vapid jay]

Can you show me maybe a video of what you do

If possible

It is an integrated part for my knowledge

Or show me some examples of what you do

Which company do you work for?

[tender thicket]

Can you show me maybe a video of what you do
Not really, no, but if you want an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqg3nMVHQUs is similar ( I have not vetted the content, sorry)

Which company do you work for?
Not permitted to disclose, we're both small and big enough it would be very easy to find me

[mint citrus]

ew nano. vim masterrace

I dont work for a tech company. turns out its a bad decision also they lied about hiring more people

might start a new job search in feb or so

[vapid jay]

Im using this information for research purposes don’t worry

You can disclose this informations through dms

I won’t use it for other purposes just for research

Famous last words 😂

[mint citrus]

NSA wants to know

[tender thicket]

NSA has my taxes ;-;

[mint citrus]

NSA IRS owes me taxes

how do i do strike through

[tender thicket]

Double it

~~

[vapid jay]

What’s nsa

[mint citrus]

there we go

[vapid jay]

Describe your work experience

In this field

[vapid jay]

@tender thicket can’t we just do this in dms

It’s more easier that way

[tender thicket]

I'm not particularly interested in doing so, sorry

[marsh wind]

@vapid jay you cannot just come at people you don't know and ask these kind of questions

[vapid jay]

Ok

Yes

I want to know more of public experiences

So I though this is the place to go

Or ask

[mint citrus]

just go on reddit

they have tons of that stuff

[vapid jay]

you're all cats

[mint citrus]

Nya~

im the only real cat tho

[vapid jay]

Hackerrank for sql doesn't have dark ide.. so annoying

[rancid pulsar]

use a browser extention to force dark mode

[vapid jay]

oh.. didn't know I could do that.. let me see

[mint citrus]

or dont use hackerrank

signs petition to get rid of hackerrank and leetcode from interviews

[rancid pulsar]

signed

[mint citrus]

seriously imo its a waste of time.

I never needed it to get a job

[rancid pulsar]

the beginner levels are good

after that its like just doing tricks

[mint citrus]

sure its not bad for your own thing but like to require it in an interview? it just shows you have academic knowledge

you can still be a shit software engineer

[vapid jay]

I need to practice..

have coding interviews coming up

you can be, but if you get the optimal solution to a medium or hard problem and are able to explain why it's optimal, potential edge cases, etc. then it's useful

yeah.. writing performant code.. code quality.. without plagiarising.. and within a time limit..

the last live coding interview I had over phone asked me to count occurrences in a logfile of a process and skip one whenever it occurred, that was way more fun to write because it was something that required actually using python

those are all the things hackerrank tests do.. a lot of companies use it for initial evaluation

I had one with amazon and they asked some algorithmic question

but i dunno, it's not like they come out and tell you to implement a data structure in your own code or something

I had another place tell me to implement a stack, which in theory should be pretty easy but I just wasnt thinking like that, it wasn't relevant to the position at all, and it made for a shitty experience

[mint citrus]

idk some companies just really underball it

like for this job it was just make an express thing work with endpoints

[vapid jay]

the worst coding interview I had with a company.. was them getting me to a solve a problem.. they stole my code and my time.. :/

[mint citrus]

yet im redoing their whole infrastructure

[vapid jay]

they were mostly trying to get trade secrets from my current employer.. I high tailed it outta there

[mint citrus]

lol

damn

[vapid jay]

that's when I decided never to interview with certain companies.. or startups

[mint citrus]

im always interviewing in another country so I dont get that issue so much

[waxen apex]

Doing MS is rt choice nowdays or bad ?

If u guys help me i shall be highly thankful to u

I'm undergraduate in Electrical and electronics engineering

[vapid jay]

MS is rt?

[waxen apex]

But scope for Indains

[vapid jay]

what is rt?

[waxen apex]

Right

[vapid jay]

Ah ok

[rancid pulsar]

MS = masters?

[vapid jay]

master of science

prob

[waxen apex]

Yeah

[vapid jay]

My opinion is that a master's is going to be subjective to how interested you are in continuing academia and also how good of a student you are. I think degrees don't matter as much anymore, maybe a masters will help though. But if you're just going to do it and coast through classes for the degree then that's not really worth imo.. however if you're gonna go bust your ass and learn a bunch of concepts in a classroom setting then maybe

it all comes down to your priorities

[vast shoal]

I got an M. Sc. in CS because I enjoyed studying, but career-wise I probably would've made more money just getting a B. Sc. I don't think it had any significant effect on my employability.

[bitter slate]

how is coding in big companies looking like?

maybe you have any example of code made by some teams?

[rare sand]

Microsoft has quite a few python repos open sourced. https://github.com/microsoft?utf8=✓&q=&type=&language=python

if you want code made by big teams.

almost all the code we write for this community is also open source, and our team is quite big, too. see https://github.com/python-discord

but it varies wildly from company to company what it looks like.

[humble elm]

woah that embed is huge

[fast warren]

EEEEE I can't believe a got a coding job

My friend Bacon gave it to me

And I only started learning python yesterday

My first job is to finish my first game, Garden of Secrets

Which is gonna be kinda hard because it has problems that nobody here knows how to fix 😦

[shut geyser]

Noice

[inland kiln]

Does having only repositories on GitHub help in future to get a job?

Repositories containing all apps I’ve made programs and other things

[shut geyser]

i've been contacted randomly because i have a blog and a github

in interview people talked about my repos

so i think yeah it's a good sign for them

[inland kiln]

What do your write on blog?

And show the blog if you don’t mind

[shut geyser]

it's linked to my real identities

but i write about my personal project, small tutorials and shit

it's reallyt basic

[pulsar drum]

I've wanted to start one of those

Even if no one reads it it's nice to have an outlet

[shut geyser]

it's a good exercise

i don't post often

[vapid jay]

just took a 4 hour coding test.. x.x

will never take one of those in the wee hours of the morning again.. could barely think

[vapid jay]

@fast warren it has problems that nobody here knows how to fix?

Which problems?

[fast warren]

Problems that have now been fixed 🙂

[vapid jay]

Good to hear

[velvet topaz]

I have a bit of a general question... I'm not even sure what to ask, but... A couple of months ago I got my first coding job. It's been going great, I love it. However, I feel a bit lost. I feel like if my job were to end today I wouldn't be marketable and would have trouble landing an equal-paying job. I am already making 6 figures so I'm definitively not an "entry level" (my title is software engineer III ). Lucky for me my job seems stable for now, my managers are happy with my performance, and the company is doing well, so I have time. What are some things I can start working on now so that... say in 1 year if my company goes under and fires everyone, I can have a solid portfolio and skillset to transition to a similar level job? My python skills are somewhat strong (same as javascript, and C++) but what else should I have? Docker? AWS? Kubernetties? Splunk? Flask? Other languages? Expertise in some area? And how do I start getting involved more? Like how do I begin contributing more to open-source projects? I actually do not have a Git hub so I have nothing to show for my skills.

I guess, given the above, if you were an interviewer, and someone came in asking for 100k salary, with 1 year as a professional programmer and no CS degree, what else would you need to see in order to hire this person?

[hardy ferry]

Two paths: Bring value to your current employer. Create tools, automate repitive processes, ??
Create an open source portfolio. You can do your own thing or contribute to other projects.

In the end what counts is that you are knowledgable. Knowing how to work in a team, the whole development cycle, what are good practices (tests, code maintainability).

You can set yourself a goal of being able to be a full stack developer. Know a bit of everything. Imo this is important in modern software development since you often jump from projects to projects into new territories.
Know how to write a backend. Be familiar with working with databases and REST. Know a bit of html,js,css. Learn a web framework. Buy a domain and host your website there. Learn how to bootstrap. Do a bit of CI/CD. Write tests for your project and do automated testing after every commit. There is a ton you could learn.
Life of a software engineer is to continue to expand their horizon. You never know enough. Learn whatever that interests you. Deepen your knowledge in whatever field that interests you.

Having an open source portfolio easens landing an interview but you still need to convince them how the salary is justified.

[rancid pulsar]

so.. basically be full stack?

[hardy ferry]

If he wants to. He can set it as his goal.
But he can also learn whatever that interests him and deepen that field that'll also work. There is no right path. You just need to show to your future employer you are knowledgable, capable of learning and can bring value to the company.

[languid mason]

What all should you strengthen if you're getting into a specific language instead of a field

like for python, what all should be in your resume mainly for it to be called a strong one ?

[acoustic trench]

Experience

Haha

[languid mason]

well, currently in uni

so thinking of ways to improve while I have my classes

[reef marsh]

It will be the goodies that python brings to the table - Are you able to use pandas + matplotlib to visualize data, can you tensorflow and work with models, etc

Projects related to them is a plus / must depending on where you are applying to

[languid mason]

that's the main thing I'm stuck on, what to pursue in python

I'm like a jack of all trades when it comes to these things, only going for surface level knowledge of each

[reef marsh]

You often pick the field you want to pursue, then you pick the technologies and finally what you need for it

Picking a language first will limit your choices - for example, data science / analytic

Python can be used as backend, Django is very strong and mature, but finding backend jobs with pure python will be harder than for Java / C#

[languid mason]

How would you know though that the field is for you

That is the thing, trying to find the thing that can click

[reef marsh]

Imagine yourself in 10 - 20 years, will you still be happy doing it? Though, in reality it is very hard and it's rare that you can do what you want, but it does not hurt to try

But in general pick a field that excites you - you will find yourself looking at other fields if you dislike what you are pursuing

[languid mason]

unfortunately that's what's been happening with me, I dont know if its psychological at this point

I'll keep trying though

[vapid jay]

What is the difference between a python programmer and a full stack developer?

[rancid pulsar]

well a full stack developer does front end and back end stuff

python developer is a vague term for a person who makes stuff using python

[shadow moss]

by front end/back end he means browser code and APIs the browser uses to display data

most full stack developers I've seen write in JS since single language

also, it's indication the company is cheap and cool with bad code, CMV

[rancid pulsar]

CMV?

[shadow moss]

Change my view

[elfin portal]

Guys, is it good to study Kivvy fw for Final Year Project, is it possible to make a whole FYP in Python using frameworks?

[gilded valley]

As in a bachelors dissertation? If so, then yes its possible to do all programming in Python, but it depends on the dissertation

[quartz socket]

Hi, Where can i post for Job post ? in Python

[indigo sleet]

I don't think they have a place for it here, but there are a lot of job sites

[vast shoal]

A lot of recruiting happens through LinkedIn.

There's also a job board on the official Python website: https://www.python.org/jobs/

[vapid jay]

Hi all, who is a full stack developer? I need someone in this career to interview. This information will be used for research only.

[hollow mantle]

I do full stack work @Dil_#7719. Waddya want to know?

[mild zenith]

He's been banned

Just forgot to remove the message

[rancid pulsar]

do you need to learn photoshop and other graphic design skills to be full stack?

[vapid jay]

no

slicing psd documents or whatever into front end code is for web designers, imo

people who love that stuff, designing pages and all that

if youre full stack there should be more of an emphasis on the back end and you're capable at doing front end as well, because the full stack has a lot more than just server side code

[gilded valley]

I think some skills like being able to wireframe, and design a website so that you can show it to a business person before completion definitely has a lot of value. Maybe not to the extent that you're mocking everything up in photoshop first though

[vapid jay]

also depends on if the sites youre building are internal or external I guess

[gilded valley]

You're practically never building a site unless it has some business value - and in that case, its probably better to keep them involved

[dull nova]

There's always the possibility of being a discord bot developer as at least a part-time job

[vapid jay]

@gilded valley where cld u get those kinda jobs

Not many will pay for one as far as ik

[gilded valley]

A full stack web developer? Lots and lots of companies hire them

[shut geyser]

i have some online assesment by Uber, anyone knows what they look like ?

Giving me 3h i'm a bit scared

[vapid jay]

what role is it for

[shut geyser]

Junior soft dev

The basic

[slim island]

do you really want to work for uber

a company that's aggressively downsizing its engineering staff

they'll take you through the paces though. Algorithms and data structures focus

[vapid jay]

downsizing also means they hire junior devs more..

that's the flipside.. senior engineers are a lot more pricey to retain..

it's what companies try to do to reduce headcount.. they do it even at big tech companies like google and fb

[slim island]

they're reducing headcount because they're transitioning from growth to BAU

I regularly speak to a few current and ex-uber folk, I would not personally get a job there

[mild zenith]

Big Awesome Unit?

[slim island]

business as usual

[mild zenith]

Oh right

[slim island]

uber is growing up from growth startup to taxi company, there's no more tech innovation to be done

it'd be a different story if they kept pursuing the self driving exit, but they capitulated on it

[mild zenith]

I don't blame them, considering they were having to fight legal battles and lobby for them to stay relevant

And still are, I think

[slim island]

they're going to fail, i've got money bet on it

their entire business model was predicated on being a loss leader until autonomy

and then they gave up autonomy

[mild zenith]

That on top of being able to undercut cab companies by not having to pay for the proper licenses and what have you

[slim island]

yeah although I personally applaud their success in breaking the taxi industry rent seeking chokehold in at least some countries

here in aus taxis continue to be complete trash compared to uber even now, i'll keep using some form of ridesharing even if it costs more than taxi

[mild zenith]

The ones in the US are just wanting to make a living

[slim island]

rich dudes collecting and reselling medallions for 500k-1m is not 'making a living'

[mild zenith]

I'm referring to the drivers themselves

[slim island]

anyway we should move to OT

[mild zenith]

True, was going to bring that up but got sidetracked

[slim island]

but tl;dr uber no longer does interesting engineering work, i would not recommend it as a place to grow a career

would still recommend it over any bigco like IBM accenture etc. though

[shut geyser]

I don't really care for uber, i just think it looks good on cv and i will learn stuff

[raw lagoon]

best book for beginners in python
????????????

[vapid jay]

If you google "best beginner books for python" there will be endless resources that can be verified by checking reviews for the book

The question is too subjective to ask

[mild zenith]

Ah, didn't notice he posted in here, too

His question was addressed but he posted it damn near everywhere

That's on me for missing this one

[vapid jay]

Lol

I'm here because I've been thinking about how people ask "tell me about a time when you encountered a bug or a hard problem, what ended up being the solution" or some form of that question

and I think that question sucks

The last time I had an annoying bug was yesterday, and the solution ended up being because I didn't bounce the uwsgi process after updating the config file, but it was definitely a headache figuring that out

[mild zenith]

"Is there a time that sticks out in your mind where you had to tackle a difficult issue? How did you solve it?"

[vapid jay]

but what kind of interviewer wants such a lame answer?

[mild zenith]

Oh I thought you were looking for a better way to form the question

[vapid jay]

for me, "difficult" issues no longer seem difficult once I get the answer to them

so I don't remember them as particularly difficult

ah no.. just panicking ahead of an interview hoping they ask fair questions

[mild zenith]

Perhaps you could think of them as time consuming, ones that required more research or ingenuity to figure out.

[vapid jay]

isn't that everything?

anything new requires research and testing

[mild zenith]

Good ones to reflect on are times when you worked with a co-worker to fix an issue, put in extra research, etc.

Well sure, but you want to find ones that display desirable traits

[vapid jay]

maybe I'm thinking about it wrong

I have this one example where I tried a million different things but we never did find a solution, lol

or we did but it's still up in the air

[mild zenith]

I mean if it sticks out in your mind, there's nothing wrong with that example either

[vapid jay]

true

[mild zenith]

Truth also goes a long way in an interview

[vapid jay]

that's for sure

[mild zenith]

"I've made mistakes in the past or had times where I couldn't figure something out, and I hope to learn from those times and become better"

Something along those lines

[vapid jay]

I somehow have an onsite with Amazon but yet I have no idea what a graph is and I told them in my technical that I don't know much about testing

but talked through my solution anyway and they approved me

[mild zenith]

Honestly so long as you express you're willing to learn and you follow through with that, it makes a huge difference

A lot of places don't want people who come in thinking they know everything, because they very well don't

[vapid jay]

yeah true, my coworkers are already like that

but we know them, so it's fine

can't bring someone new on board who already thinks they run the place

[mild zenith]

Sure, but being able to acknowledge when you don't know something and knowing when you need to ask for help is a HUGE skill

One that a lot of people (including myself) struggle with

I'm terrible about asking for help.

I'll beat my head against a wall until I get it even if it could have been faster to ask

[vapid jay]

it's the when that's most important though

[mild zenith]

Absolutely

[vapid jay]

When you've tried a bunch of solutions and you're not getting anywhere and now you're wasting time because someone on your team could've helped you

vs. when you encounter a new problem and your first thought is to go ask someone

My coworker said something about me (to me, directly) about the second part yesterday, he was kidding, but it sucks to hear lol

[mild zenith]

Absolutely. "I've never encountered this before, have you? What did you do to solve it."

Sure, but you have to hear it to know what to fix

[vapid jay]

I just like bouncing what I'm doing off of other people, and I think that comes off as me asking what to do

[mild zenith]

It can.

[vapid jay]

but other people are busy so that can get tedious

[mild zenith]

But I think a good portion of coders get the need for some rubber ducky debugging

[vapid jay]

for sure

I love talking things out, I don't really want to be working on a project with another person and we're doing the exact same code

but same project, different tasks, same ideas to talk about

[mild zenith]

-nods- And that might be something to express as well during the interview. That shows good communication and teamwork skills

Proper work allocation to make sure there's no redundant work going on

[vapid jay]

well I've got about 2.5 hours to get my head on straight with interview answers

answers for questions I dont know

[mild zenith]

My best suggestion is to just get relaxed.

[vapid jay]

yeah, if I had a shrink they'd probably just tell me to breathe

[mild zenith]

Granted my thoughts should be taken with a grain of salt, as I'm primarily a hobbyist coder. But these kinds of tips apply to any job interview

[vapid jay]

it's ok.. I have a job in the field already, I just want a new one

been around the block but still making the same mistakes

that's life

[mild zenith]

Yep. And all you can do is keep at it

[marsh wind]

would still recommend it over any bigco like IBM accenture etc. though
@slim island what's with IBM or accenture?

[slim island]

they're corporate body shops

chances of encountering projects and people who can help a junior grow their technical careeer are about 0

[shut geyser]

accenture is know to be a meat grinder isn't it

[shadow moss]

brian, because you think interviewers care

I don't care what problem is, I'm looking for how you troubleshoot and other stuff

I once had intern go on about some literature assignment in class and how he couldn't understand the book metaphors and reach out to class mates, read articles on it and ended up reading it again in different language

he got hired

[lavish spindle]

@slim island I just had a phone interview with IBM yesterday.

[misty coyote]

is anyone canadian here and is in university?

[mental thorn]

Just landed a position with an executive search firm. Looks like I will be taking on side projects to help them automate some of their systems, and given the growth of the company there is huge potential for other ventures

[polar sleet]

Hello everyone, I've just started learning programming, so can someone please guide me how and from where should I study.

[uneven pilot]

!resources

Hey @polar sleet! I recommend checking out this server's recommended learning resources - they're super good:

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

https://pythondiscord.com/pages/resources

[daring sundial]

Any advice for a young person looking very ahead..?

[marsh wind]

How young?

[daring sundial]

To young to be thinking about jobs ngl

[vapid jay]

15 or 16

[marsh wind]

Get good grades

[humble elm]

the usual be good in school?

yeah

[marsh wind]

If you want code get good at math

That can help

[humble elm]

do some large-ish projects that can look good on your resume

[daring sundial]

I can code

wdym by largeish

[vapid jay]

try disord.py i learnt a lot witha that

[humble elm]

something that takes longer than a week i guess

[marsh wind]

And will require going beyond what you know now

[humble elm]

a couple thousand loc maybe. (not including stuff generated for you)

[vapid jay]

learn one lining. looks cool on a resume

[humble elm]

wut

no

[marsh wind]

For real? 😂 I would doubt that

[humble elm]

look at me i can write unreadable code!

[vapid jay]

not on resume in code

readiblity is not always the case when no one else you is gonna work on that code

[humble elm]

yes it is

[daring sundial]

I have been working on a bot for a few months very on and off

[humble elm]

never ever write unreadable code

[vapid jay]

then you have very bad variable naming skills

[daring sundial]

It's on 150 servers idk if that's a success or not

[humble elm]

what?

[vapid jay]

i too have bad variable naming skills

[humble elm]

why would i or bwac?

[vapid jay]

look at me i can write unreadable code!
variable naming is a important thing

[humble elm]

bad variable naming skills means stuff like a or var1

[daring sundial]

Sydney is really bad for programming jobs as far as I can see

[vapid jay]

both

[humble elm]

no thats what it would look like if you wrote oneliners

on your resume

[vapid jay]

i said not on resume

[humble elm]

anywhere

thats what it says about you

if you write that same piece of code in a readable fashion others can look at it and understand what you are doing and what you were thinking.

[vapid jay]

if the use of the variable is in the same line . variable name doesn't really make sense to me . its hard on long code where you call it a lot

[humble elm]

you should never use a variable you define in the same line

[daring sundial]

This the wrong channel for arguing about code readability

[vapid jay]

ok

[daring sundial]

lol

[vapid jay]

Sydney bad for programmers ? really

[daring sundial]

Just saying...

Idk there are just not that many jobs around me but again I still have to wait for years

The city is good

[marsh wind]

I think bot in 150ish servers ain't bad

Something you can put in resume

Unless it's the bot for porn pics/gifs 😂 (yeah I saw those exist too)

[daring sundial]

It's for getting Reddit data in discord

Like user profiles and stuff

[vapid jay]

nice.

[marsh wind]

Especially if in bot you have adapted good coding practices and used appropriate discord.py functionalities and good libs

[daring sundial]

I had to work with porn and nsfw stuff

Top.gg doesn't like that

Reddit has a lot of that

[marsh wind]

Cause it means, for example you can say you know async coding, perhaps sql /async sql

I think that's something you could definitely leverage on interview

[daring sundial]

Does async coding mean adding await to the beginning every line that errors without it

xd

[marsh wind]

It's little bit more than that lol

[daring sundial]

Probably

[marsh wind]

@daring sundial you have bot on github?

[daring sundial]

Yes, but it's private bc I have like 3 tokens and passwords in the files I gave up and privated it

Im going to public it, but that's for another day

In each cog I need to login to Reddit with praw, I gave up removing them on every push

[marsh wind]

Use .gitignore

[solemn valley]

@daring sundial you should use environment variables instead of hardcoding them into your bot

• if you should make the repo public keep in mind git does not only have the current but also every commit before this one -> if you make it public now everyone can see the commits where you still had your tokens in the code

[red nebula]

guys how much SQL do I need to know for a data analysis job?

[daring sundial]

@solemn valley Ty,

[shy pollen]

"tokens.txt"

[vapid jay]

@red nebula all of it

data analyst positions basically require mastery of sql and spreadsheets.. some visualization skills would also be nice - one of : tableau, power bi, qlikview, d3js, carto... and if it's anything related to web then being able to use google analytics too..

[reef marsh]

Just enough for all CRUD operations so you can store / access data imo

Knowing how to do good indexing for faster querying is a plus

[slim island]

the main skill for a data analyst is understanding the data and underlying relationships. Which assumes a pretty solid mastery of sql or whatever other means to query it

sql monkeys are a dime a dozen, decent analysts are rare and attract a significantly higher pay

[shut geyser]

i just did the online evaluation of Uber and completely failed it

it's much harder than what i got at Google wtf

or i became way worse in the span of 1 month which is possible

[gilded valley]

What was the question/s?

[vapid jay]

probably just stuff straight off leetcode

[shut geyser]

yeah, i did a fair amount of leetcode, and i'd say it was hard

they were 3 questions and tbh i didn't even understood the last one properly

some weird graph stuff

i can do simple ones

[gilded valley]

Yeah, DSA problems have a huge range of difficulties

[shut geyser]

but this was above my level

humiliating tbh

[shadow moss]

Don’t worry about ColdEmber

They purposely fail you

When we (not Uber) interview devs, we try and fail them, generally the failed code is more telling then good code

[gilded valley]

I don't think thats necessarily true for big companies. For the most part the code you write in online assesments is never seen by a human

thats true of at least 2 big corporations

[shadow moss]

Depends

Fail all 3, no, thrown out

Pass well all the ones we expect you to pass then fail the one we expected, look at code

Personally I dislike those assessments

But recruiters are lazy and amount of job applicants insane

[vapid jay]

companies like uber and faang etc want you to get it all perfect

chances are if you think you did bad on an uber assessment then you probably did bad

nothing wrong with that just an unfortunate draw on the questions they provided lol

[shut geyser]

I felt like google was more fair cause question were easier and i could discuss solution with recruiter

And they make you comfortablz

Against online it's less comfortable

Erh i'll recover

[radiant moon]

I'd expect someone to get basic stuff (like fizzbuzz) correct, but I never give particularly tricky coding problems in interviews

my job, at least, really isn't about knowing a zillion fancy algorithms or anything like that; it's basic coding competence plus diligence, concern for customers, readability, &c

being able to write clear English prose is, to me, more important than fancy coding skill

[gilded valley]

Testing on DSA knowledge form the perspective of a lot of companies is less about checking whether they're good at DSA problems, and more about making sure that person is capable of learning something.

[nocturne snow]

Guys, what is your opinion on the EU market vs the US market?

Specifically, Im Dutch, but I feel like python is heavily underpaid there. I am considering moving to Switzerland, but that's better pay but more expensive. An alternative is to stay in the US where I'm living right now just because the pay is much better..

Visa's not a problem, but just curious on your opinion.

[mint citrus]

US will have highest paying jobs for the software dev field

still!

there are a lot of lower paying jobs in the US for software dev

so dont think that by moving to the US you will get a higher salary just because you move there. if you are unexperienced then I suggest work a year or so in your country and then make the move.

[nocturne snow]

I have a degree from a top 10 cs university, so finding the 'higher paying job' wont so much be the issue I think

But just as for working environment etc

I would love to work in the netherlands as it is my home country, but salary for my field is like ~45-65kish, whereas if I land a job in the US, its starting 100-115k, which is absurd.

Just feels weird.

[mint citrus]

do you have any experience?

[nocturne snow]

Yes, technical management consulting

multinational level

[mint citrus]

ah ok

well then move to the US

[nocturne snow]

What do you feel about other Eu countries?

[mint citrus]

btw CS degree wont get you the job. just gets your foot in the door

[nocturne snow]

I heard switerzerland is really really good, but then again..

[mint citrus]

meh I also got about 45k in Germany

tho I also got 45k in the US

[nocturne snow]

I looked at honeypot, they would start me at like ~55k in Netherlands/Ger according to one of their advisers

[mint citrus]

doesnt honey pot require you to give part of your salary?

[nocturne snow]

Not sure, I think employers just pay them a flat sum for getting them hires.

Not an expert.

Tripplebyte or something is quite similar, but I'm not sure what to think of those services..

[mint citrus]

I never used those services as I find them untrustworthy

but thats just my thinking

its always best to apply directly

[shadow moss]

Jakob’s do you need visa for Us work?

[nocturne snow]

with US degree you get 3 years of 'free' working in the US

every year you can then apply for long-term visa if your company supports it

[mint citrus]

huh

you studied in the US?

[nocturne snow]

Yes

"The H-1B is granted for an initial period of 3 years and can be extended for an additional 3 years, but cannot be extended beyond 6 years. "

[mint citrus]

huh

[nocturne snow]

carnegie mellon university

[mint citrus]

are you in the US now?

[shadow moss]

Jakobs, are you currently sitting on H-1B right this second?

[mint citrus]

actually you prob are since the time

[nocturne snow]

ye

But Im thinking of doing a second degree first, or just working

not sure what to do with my life, thats kind of the thing.

Wait, let me double chekc

Actually, I think my degree got me F-1

but I have an offer which would get me H-1b

I got in with F-1

[shadow moss]

you are aware of restrictions of H-1B correct?

[mint citrus]

is it important for you to stay in the US?

[nocturne snow]

US sponsor

[shadow moss]

here is my advice as American, if you want the cash, stay in US with our awful work culture

[nocturne snow]

Haha, Im going to check out the west coast for the first time in a week, then I think I'll decide

[shadow moss]

if Europe wants higher salaries, it can take higher income inequality to go with it, they have voted that down

[nocturne snow]

Since there would be the place to be anyway

[shadow moss]

also, 110k USD is nothing depending on where you live

[mint citrus]

^

[nocturne snow]

Fair enough.

It just feels that I spend all this time/money into specializing, and EU countries are just saying fuck that.

Feels weird.

[shadow moss]

you are in steel town middle Cost of Living and looking at 110k USD and going "HOLY SHIT, LOOK AT THAT FAT STACK OF CASH"

[nocturne snow]

Ayyy steel town baby

[shadow moss]

West coast, welcome to poor house, population: you

[nocturne snow]

Currently in pittsburgh

[shadow moss]

I know exactly where you are

[nocturne snow]

Im actually paying $400/month in rent right now, 15 minutes from CMU

[mint citrus]

how big? in sqm if you can

[shadow moss]

I'm saying you are "Stranger in strange land"

[nocturne snow]

with a google department 10 minutes away from me as well

15 minutes walking

Thatcat, this is around 12 sqm

[mint citrus]

12 sqm room

[nocturne snow]

Its an old house, I rent a room with shared grad students

[mint citrus]

eek!

[shadow moss]

if you could get 110k and stay in Pittsburgh area, I'd jump at that

[mint citrus]

oh i see

I pay about 200-300 for my current 23sqm apartment

[shadow moss]

if they want to pay you 120k to move to San Fran, you need to strongly consider your life

[nocturne snow]

But seriously, my mates are living in downtown

paying 1200$/month, they get a good view

I get new consumer electronics every month

[shadow moss]

also, H-1B can be rough as companies treat you like indentured servant you are

[mint citrus]

do they really ?

[nocturne snow]

Depends on how my value proposition towards the company are.

Yes, even 120k-180k employees are disposable

[shadow moss]

Thatcat, do you know where H-1B go after company lets you go?

[nocturne snow]

but then again, I don't plan to work for 120k for more than 3 years. Its a step up

[mint citrus]

no idea

[shadow moss]

Airport

[nocturne snow]

https://www.internationalstudent.com/study_usa/graduation/visa-options/

[mint citrus]

they really get deported like that?

[shadow moss]

in theory....... they can get another job

in practice, no

[mint citrus]

how much time do they usually have?

[nocturne snow]

Depends on when their H1-B was given out

[mint citrus]

I mean getting a job in a foreign country is hard by all means

[nocturne snow]

but youre fucked if I understand it correctly

Sponsoring can only be done in speficic months each year, and only get approved specific months ( I think (?))

[shadow moss]

Once you cease to be employed, you have a maximum 60-day grace period in which to get another employer to sponsor you for H-1B employment, arrange for another visa status allowing you to stay in the U.S., or make plans to head home.

[mint citrus]

so 2 months

[nocturne snow]

I just need to tinder myself into a greencard lul

[mint citrus]

lol

[nocturne snow]

Just kidding.

[shadow moss]

and with way system works, it can't be done in 60 days

[mint citrus]

I mean im sure you can get another job within 2 months

just might not get the job you want

[shadow moss]

Thatcat, they have to sponsor you for a visa, it's alot more difficult then it seems

[mint citrus]

yes I know

[shadow moss]

effectively, you are going home

[nocturne snow]

Thatcat, I asked already I think, but what do you think of Die Schweiz as a german?

[mint citrus]

dunno what I should think about it

[nocturne snow]

Im thinking thats the place to be, no american system, good pay, and close to the mountains which I love

[mint citrus]

they speak funny

[nocturne snow]

They speak french/german/italian in some parts?

[mint citrus]

i think so yeah.

ive only ever been in the airport

[nocturne snow]

Anyway, interesting stuff.

[shadow moss]

Anyways, H-1B isn't bad

just keep an eye on cost of living in because massive variance in US on that

[mint citrus]

wonders about his visa status when he stops working in current country

[shadow moss]

and if you want to transition to Green Card, you can

[mint citrus]

how does that work?

other than marriage

[nocturne snow]

I don't really feel home yet in the US after just over a year, wonder if that would ever change

then again I'm in the middle of nowhere.

[mint citrus]

prob takes a few years

[shadow moss]

if you are on H-1B, eventually you can transfer to Green Card

don't know the time

[mint citrus]

at least you speak the language where you are

oh prob 5 years then @shadow moss

[nocturne snow]

takes longer I think

[shadow moss]

advantage to Green Card you are effectively American when it comes to seeking work

[nocturne snow]

I wonder if it helps that I have cousins living in the US

[mint citrus]

it doesnt

[shadow moss]

living or citizens?

[mint citrus]

is currently researching green card for his GF

[nocturne snow]

citizens

[shadow moss]

oh cousins, nope

[mint citrus]

^

[nocturne snow]

and my near family owns some property in new york, but Im not sure if that helps any way shape or form

[shadow moss]

nope

[mint citrus]

it doesnt

[shadow moss]

for family to matter, you need to be direct family tree

[mint citrus]

yep

[shadow moss]

like grandparents, parents, children

[mint citrus]

so like if your mother has green card or something

grandparents too far I think

[nocturne snow]

Weird how hard they make it for educated people to work, as from an economical standpoint, its great for them

[mint citrus]

like has to be wife/husband or children

[shadow moss]

depends on various factors but if your grandparents were US citizens, you parents my technically be US citizens

[mint citrus]

well they cant just give all the jobs to foreigners

@shadow moss only if they were born in the US

[nocturne snow]

I'm just glad that I'm not from Asia tbf, a bunch of my Indian friends and Chinese friends have a way worse situation, since they have a lot more competition

[shadow moss]

Nope

[mint citrus]

is in asia

[shadow moss]

you can be foreign born to US citizen and end up with US citizenship

[mint citrus]

hmmm

[shadow moss]

I have college friend who ended up married to Austrian, they had kids and he got them US passports

[mint citrus]

huh

I think the US tightened that rule tho

[nocturne snow]

It is seriously absurd how getting married is a more 'legally easy' way to get a citizenship.

[mint citrus]

anyways if parents dont have US citizenship then it wont work

its still difficult tho

im currently dealing with getting my GF a green card and we need to thing about how and where we get married for the least issuees

[shadow moss]

note, the mom has never had US LPR status/Green Card as they live Denmark and have zero intention of returning

[mint citrus]

still takes like a whole year and a few thousand dollars for processing

[shadow moss]

Jakobs, reason for that is we have for profit universities

[nocturne snow]

I mean, just having a US Citzenship is worth a shitton.

[mint citrus]

yeah it is

[nocturne snow]

Yeah, seriously.

[mint citrus]

is working on his third citizenship

[shadow moss]

and while we need educated workers, we need cream of crop but we don't need more middle level workers

[nocturne snow]

So applying to a top grad university as a foreign student:

GRE: ~250 bucks, each copy ~30 bucks

TOEFL: similar

Translating your transcripts: 205 bucks + 30 each copy

Visa stuff: ~400 bucks

'administrative fee" uni's ~300 bucks

[shadow moss]

so if we had programs where it was like "Graduate with Masters and stay in US for work" US universities would just prey on foreign born students and flood the market

[mint citrus]

well sometimes the uni covers that for you (uni in home country)

[nocturne snow]

each application: 80-180 USD

I spent like 2.5k on my applications in total

because I also had to travel to amsterdam for my getting a damn stamp

[shadow moss]

now CMU is great school, I'd say we keep everyone that graduates from that school

[mint citrus]

I almost had to get a stamp and original for my BS for my current country

[nocturne snow]

Central Michigan ey? 😉

[mint citrus]

somehow it made it through without it

[nocturne snow]

But tbf, my CMU degree felt more like getting a stamp on my CV

[shadow moss]

but if you graduate from University of Pittsburgh, congrats, but yea

[nocturne snow]

great networking opportunities though

[shadow moss]

that's what ivy leagues are all about

[nocturne snow]

Pitt Uni is also decent, but mostly based around US students I feel

[shadow moss]

esp for more soft degree programs

[nocturne snow]

Theyre great in medicine.

[shadow moss]

Like Business stuff

I don't need another paper pusher at work

[nocturne snow]

CMU isnt really ivy league though

[shadow moss]

It's Ivy League of Engineering

[nocturne snow]

Fair enough.

I got my undergrad at TU Delft, ever heard of that?

[shadow moss]

Nope, is it American?

[nocturne snow]

Dutch, Delft University of Technology

Just curious if you would know it.

[shadow moss]

Dutch, that's where all socialists are 😉

[nocturne snow]

Haha, we're all Bernies

[shadow moss]

dude, we can barely keep track of our country

[nocturne snow]

I've got people telling me in Bars how much of a 'communist' bernie is

they follow up by listing things which I find normal human rights. Anyway, I guess this isnt a ppolitics chat.

[shadow moss]

yep, it's not

[mint citrus]

^

[nocturne snow]

Good talk anyway. Have a great one 🙂

Hope you both find fulfilment in your careers.

[mint citrus]

meh I kinda got mine for the time being

hope you get to stay in the US man. GL

[nocturne snow]

We'll see where I end up, being happy > money in the end 😛

[mint citrus]

yes it def is

[vapid jay]

So... Question. Do you share your porn blog scraper proof on concepts on github to show off that you can do it, or do you not do that because what if this thing downloads something terrible and someone sees that you made it, because the particular sites in question were chosen to be scraped on the basis of their being shady websites, and maybe mot associating my name with that is ideal.
But at the same time...
github.com/virufac/pr0n-blog-proof
could upload it
but the proof of concept is
bypassing shady websites to load all their content
without their bullshit
is that resume material lol

[mint citrus]

I personally would not put that on a resume

[vapid jay]

lol, def not

what about a github

[mint citrus]

i mean... i dont see why not

[vapid jay]

mainly because the blogs are associated with things i do not endorse

shady web tactics

but that was why i chose them

[mint citrus]

some people make multiple github accounts for these things

[vapid jay]

good idea

[bleak sapphire]

if I want to learn how to code bounties could I just use the debugger on visual studio and clone the bounty repositories and use the debugger to help fix the issue. I’m new to coding and python but excel at basic debugging and problem solving.

[mint citrus]

wrong channel this is for career stuff

[opaque finch]

Hey guys! I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice here? I have gotten a new job and have just received the contract, however the Intellectual Property section is basically stating that they own all development work that I create while at the company, however, I am currently developing a website for my Dad's shop as a side project and for free, my new job is not in web design or jewellery (like my father's business), do you think this would cause an issue?

I heard that if the project I am developing does not relate to my employer then I'm all god

good*

[mint citrus]

yeah you are prob good

its if you are doing it during work hours

using their resources and such

at least thats how I see it someone else might have more insight on this

[opaque finch]

Yeah, that's what I thought, but seeing as I am using my own resources it shouldn't clash

[mint citrus]

well yeah.

[vast shoal]

@opaque finch You could ask your employer (in general terms without mentioning your side gig) what their opinion is on the matter.

But yeah, it'd surprise me if your employer would try to lay claim to your dad's shop website.

[indigo sleet]

the Intellectual Property section is basically stating that they own all development work that I create while at the company

this is a super duper common clause in a lot of countries, and I hate it

if they are laying claim to any development work you do while employed - as opposed to just what you write at work - it does pay to be wary

because companies can and do use these clauses to take over businesses and projects that otherwise have nothing to do with them

as dementati says though, it can't hurt to ask

[vast shoal]

Yeah, it's not unheard of. I just find it improbable that they'd care about a website for a jewellery shop.

[opaque finch]

Yeah, I had the clause in a previous RETAIL job, but for an IT consultancy company, I doubt a jewellery shop would be on their list of targets

I'll shoot them an e-mail and see, thanks guys!

[indigo sleet]

If it makes money, they'd have at least some thoughts about it

the #1 priority for a business is profit, after all

it's always best to be safe, if they do OK you for it, make sure they amend your contract as well

[vast shoal]

@indigo sleet They wouldn't be able to lay claim to the store itself though, just the website.

Don't see how they could profit from that.

[indigo sleet]

Licensing, maybe

[opaque finch]

The website itself doesn't sell any products directly as well due to the price of the products etc. So the website is just a platform to display the products and if they wanna buy, they gotta go to the shop

[vast shoal]

Sounds like something you could throw together in an hour on a platform like Squarespace (no offense to you @opaque finch). Really doesn't sound worth going after for a business.

[opaque finch]

No offence taken, it really is something simple

[indigo sleet]

I definitely wouldn't recommend it unless you can guarantee they'll leave you alone either way

code ownership is always a mess when it comes to things like this

[opaque finch]

Yeah, I've e-mailed them to double check, better safe than sorry

[charred wind]

Hi im searching for someone who is interested in developing a game with a blockchain back end. Not sure if im correct here, if not, my apology. Please point me to the right channel

Of course paid opportunity

[mild zenith]

@charred wind Unfortunately we don't allow the advertising or recruiting for projects. Including requests for paid work or the like.

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. No spamming or unapproved advertising, including requests for paid work. Open-source projects can be showcased in #show-your-projects.

[charred wind]

Ah sry guys

[mild zenith]

No worries, now you know

[thin flare]

hyperventilating i'm going to fail this class

the specifics of python are so hard to get a grasp on for me, and the actual course material is so mathy it takes so long for me to even begin to wrap my head around it lmaooo

[mild zenith]

Well just let us know what stuff you're stuck on. The help channels are there to do their namesake

[thin flare]

yeah c':

[gilded valley]

If it makes you feel better - its repeatedly been shown that you can learn pretty much anything - including things like maths - with time and effort

Nothing is impossible to learn

[pulsar drum]

wrong channel, ask in #discord-bots

[vapid jay]

@charred wind
https://gyazo.com/4ba20bd56906d23d77b71536f635b675?token=d8f53ed14c277f0e8732e2f3e89ff105

[sonic bluff]

I suffer heavily from imposter syndrome, I feel like I am not ready to pursue a full career in python, yet I use it in my day to day in my current position (Manager/Data Analyst). I think my insecurity mainly comes from the simple scripts and queries I am running now, nothing involves a lot of heavy lifting. Any suggestions on how to take my career further in python? Will practice really help me fight that feeling of being out of place among my peers and under-skilled?

[rare sand]

@sonic bluff you'll never completely shake the imposter syndrome if you have even a shred of humility and you work with talented people, but it'll stop being debilitating after a while.

If you want to help that process along, I strongly recommend getting involved in open source.

that's probably going to be very healthy for your career, too, if you're serious about gravitating towards a full time dev position.

find an open source Python project you believe in which seems to have a decent onboarding procedure for new contributors and just let it eat into your free time.

the way many such projects will treat you will often be somewhat similar to what you could expect from a real dev job.

at least the good ones.

[shut geyser]

Onboarding procedure ?

I didn't imagine it to be that intense

[rare sand]

yep, what I mean by that is, when you're new to a project you're gonna need someone to hold your hand for a bit. onboarding might as simple as reading a file called CONTRIBUTING.md, but some places it'll be more involved.

maybe one of the maintainers will do a voice chat with you and walk you through the file structure, maybe you get some pair programming with a more familiar contributor

maybe there's a channel to join where you can chat with other contributors

so they can help unblock you or walk you through how to set up your development environment

some projects will have video guides

but if the project has no form of onboarding at all, it's probably not what you're looking for