#career-advice | Python | Page 320

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:17 PM

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Define really good at computers. Let's say you had an interview now. What would you say to convince them to hire you.
If you wanted to land a job right after high school you should have mastered a programming language already. Else the only path is college or traineeship/apprenticeship.

gilded valley Oct 30, 2019, 5:17 PM

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It is possible to get into software engineering without going to university, but its not necessarily easy

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If you want to get started with programming then Python is a great language to do that

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:18 PM

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I'm really good with computers just like someone who's really good at a sport.

gilded valley Oct 30, 2019, 5:18 PM

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You can start by checking out some of the tutorials linked in the resources. The Corey Schafer videos, and Automate the Boring Stuff are two that are often reccomended

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:18 PM

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kk thx

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And I'm also a very good critical thinker. And I think outside the box

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:19 PM

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How much linux experience do you have? What have you done with Linux before?

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:20 PM

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never done anything with linux. is that bad? lol

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:21 PM

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Knowing how to use microsoft office, typing fast, etc. is a given. I don't want to discourage you from learning Python but so far you have shown that you don't really have a lot of "computer skills".
Knowing how to work with linux is absolut fundamental for a young aspiring software developer.

gilded valley Oct 30, 2019, 5:22 PM

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so far you have shown that you don't really have a lot of "computer skills". he's said literally one thing about his ""computer skills""

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Knowing how to work with linux is absolut fundamental for a young aspiring software developer. this is not true, its key for some jobs, useful for others, but its not necessarily fundamental

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:22 PM

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You should go through some education. Be it education provided by college or by your future employer (apprenticeship, traineeship).

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:23 PM

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hmm

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I like you Charlie

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❤

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:23 PM

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Charlie, he will be sorted out when he sends out his application and if he somehow makes it through they will interview and see he knows nothing. It is fundamental. It may not be required for the current project but it is very basic

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:25 PM

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If it's basic then I could learn it extremely fast

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I'm a very quick learner

gilded valley Oct 30, 2019, 5:25 PM

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I'm not going to argue with Linley. But my advice is just get started with learning, the best way to do that is by doing. Following whatever tutorials you find most useful and asking questions. Once you've picked up the basics, you'll be better able to figure out what you want to do next

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:26 PM

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bet thanks Charlie

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:27 PM

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I agree but he shouldn't put his expectation too high that he is going to get a job when he is starting to learn now. It may be harsh but I've seen enough daydreamers have their dreams get crushed.

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and my advice was for him to still go through some kind of education. This will land him a job much easier than doing it on his own

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:29 PM

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Oh. I never get my hopes up. I understand how life goes.

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And would technical college suffice?

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:29 PM

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The kind of people who get hired out of high school are very few and they put a lot of effort into programming early.

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:29 PM

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i went to a community college and it's working out so

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:29 PM

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soul what job u got

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:29 PM

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onboarding as a software engineer

gilded valley Oct 30, 2019, 5:30 PM

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I agree that education is probably a much more sure path to a job. But a lot of people can't necessarily afford college in the US

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:30 PM

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community college is completely free if you go straight out of high school to your local one

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all you need to pay for is books

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:30 PM

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I got paid to go to college but dropped out. I hate myself lol

gilded valley Oct 30, 2019, 5:30 PM

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Why can't you go back?

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:30 PM

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I stopped going to class

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So i flunked out

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I can just save my money and pay to go to college though. it's no big deal

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3k tuition for 2 years. not bad

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:32 PM

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i do completely agree with linley though. yes, you can learn on your own, but it can be extremely difficult if you haven't at least confirmed you know the fundamentals

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:33 PM

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I understand your caution. But learning on your own is clearly the best way. And I understand how to fully learn something. I'm not your average Joe

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:34 PM

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best way i don't know, and no matter who you are i will always suggest proper education

marsh wind Oct 30, 2019, 5:34 PM

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had any specific reason for this?

I stopped going to class
So i flunked out

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:34 PM

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no matter how much of a hotshot you are, you won't learn everything a business wants on your own and without projects to back you, they'll throw you out the door the second you say "i taught myself"

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:34 PM

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I was making a lot of money reselling shoes

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So I dropped out to focus on that

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That's why I would develop projects and such. I plan on making bots for shoes.

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:35 PM

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that's

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that's not going to work out

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i've made several bots, none of which have been for profit at all, because nobody wants to pay for a bot when plenty of source is out there if they really want to do it on their own

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a business won't hire you because you made a couple scraper bots for shoes

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:36 PM

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lmao people would buy a bot from me

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Maybe not you. But I am reputable in shoe community

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and obviously I would do different projects and such

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And plenty of people pay for bots. trust

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:37 PM

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look, reputation or not unless you're exploiting unknowing people they're not just going to pay for your bots

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:37 PM

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lol you don't know shoes my friend

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There's this bot called CyberAIO

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:38 PM

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but i know my industry, and a business still won't care about a couple bots you've made

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:38 PM

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It resells for 3k

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Like I said, I'd do different projects as well

gilded valley Oct 30, 2019, 5:39 PM

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If you're so confident it works - go do it rather than talking about it on Discord

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:39 PM

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^

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you also referenced CyberAIO, and they are very well established in this "market" of yours

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actually making something to compete with them as a lone developer is slim to none

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:40 PM

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You have no idea how the shoe community works, my friend lol

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And I'm learning python as we speak

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:41 PM

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you're ignoring what we're telling you

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doing this is not going to land you a job

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:41 PM

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ok

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Then tell me what will

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:41 PM

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you don't seem to care to listen

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so why should i

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:41 PM

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I do listen. You are the one who doesn't listen

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lol

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:41 PM

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go get an education

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stop selling shoes, you're not a shoemaker

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:42 PM

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shoes are very good profit lol

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:42 PM

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and you didn't listen.

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:42 PM

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You should try it

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Ok so the only way you guys know is for me to get a degree?

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:43 PM

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I wonder if he knows how much experience and time it took to create CyberAIO. It isn't just Python. And if he build it now not knowing how set up a proper payment system he will be one of those guys who loses their business because some reverse engineer saw a loophole in his code. He needs to know the full package of web development (html, js, css, uptime, load balancing). He needs to split is project into multiple services. He needs to know about databases.
There is so much to it.
If he is so reputable he could just pay someone to do it and he'd just market it. But any programmer would see the flaw and ditch the partner and do it himself.

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:44 PM

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^

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:44 PM

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lol you guys are naggers

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You sound like my mom

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:44 PM

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m8 you came here to talk careers and you're told reality but deny it

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:44 PM

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Tupac I don't mean to be mean. I encourage everyone to learn Python.

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:44 PM

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I don't deny it

hardy ferry Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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I don't like delusional people wasting their time.

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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You aren't as encouraging as you think. I know you mean well. Your approach is not the best

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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his approach is blunt but the truth

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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No

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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just learning python isn't going to make what you want lol

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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It's "his" truth

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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no, it's the truth

mild zenith Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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No it's a pretty well accepted truth around here, especially

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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^

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:45 PM

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What truth Hemlock

mild zenith Oct 30, 2019, 5:46 PM

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Sneaker bots and making programs to assist with shoe trading is not allowed here

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That's the long and the short of it, honestly

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:46 PM

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I wasn't talking about making one here

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lol

mild zenith Oct 30, 2019, 5:46 PM

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Sure, at least wanted to get it out of the way

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:46 PM

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to add past server rules, you're not going to make a website and a program solely in python without knowledge of other systems as well

mild zenith Oct 30, 2019, 5:46 PM

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Wait what?

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:47 PM

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Well then what other systems should I learn?

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:47 PM

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he's said he's just learning python and he wants to compete with the other "traders" he talked about

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:47 PM

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Instead of trying to help. You criticize

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"traders"?

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What

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:47 PM

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i was just adding, he can't make a website in pure python (django sure, but maintenance and debugging)

mild zenith Oct 30, 2019, 5:47 PM

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Stop

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Let me catch up at least

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Well this conversation at least started reasonably. What the others are suggesting, Tupac, is the general advice. If you don't have a degree, build up a portfolio of work (preferably of reputable work), get contacts, certifications, etc. And to everyone involved as a whole, let's keep it civil.

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:51 PM

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lol thanks

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They are such rude people

marsh wind Oct 30, 2019, 5:51 PM

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https://discordapp.com/channels/267624335836053506/470889390588035082/614161247272960011

mild zenith Oct 30, 2019, 5:51 PM

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You're included in that, Tupac

marsh wind Oct 30, 2019, 5:51 PM

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chrck this

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:51 PM

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But they started it 😦

mild zenith Oct 30, 2019, 5:51 PM

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And I'm finishing it

small geode Oct 30, 2019, 5:51 PM

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honestly none of us were trying to be rude to you, it's all good

wispy steeple Oct 30, 2019, 5:53 PM

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Not to be rude or anything but are you an adult Tupac?

marsh wind Oct 30, 2019, 5:53 PM

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21 he said

gilded valley Oct 30, 2019, 5:53 PM

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21

wispy steeple Oct 30, 2019, 5:53 PM

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oh.

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hm. ok

gilded valley Oct 30, 2019, 5:54 PM

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But to be fair. He is very good with computers and a good critical thinker. Also not your average Joe

marsh wind Oct 30, 2019, 5:54 PM

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who' an average Joe anyway

neon needle Oct 30, 2019, 5:55 PM

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me 🙂

vapid jay Oct 30, 2019, 5:56 PM

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Like girls, you gossip.

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Anywho, I got things to do. I'll leave you to your miserable existence. 🙂

marsh wind Oct 30, 2019, 6:11 PM

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https://discordapp.com/channels/267624335836053506/470889390588035082/614161247272960011

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@vapid jay I reccomend you check this

vernal granite Oct 30, 2019, 10:05 PM

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hey there im currently a high school student hoping to go into this field at some point. i have a tiny bit of experience with ML using the keras + numpy libraries but i dont know the math behind someting and if i dont know how something works i feel like im cheating. i have been learning python for about a year now and the c language for 3 months. i have made a few libs in c for python to help with personal projects. does anybody have any advice for someone wanting to go into this field?

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oof sorry thats a wall of text

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tl;dr: im 15 i want to code for my job. i know python and kinda c. any advice?

neon needle Oct 30, 2019, 11:58 PM

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stay in school and enjoy whats left of your childhood

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 1:16 AM

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programming is part of childhood

mortal orchid Oct 31, 2019, 1:16 AM

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I c what u did there

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:10 AM

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can someone help me provide me some advice?

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:15 AM

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?

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:21 AM

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I have few months experience working a contract role as an ETL guy but only using R, Bash, docker. I tried going for Data Engineering interviews but got denied due to lack of python knowledge.

Then I went ahead and learnt basics of python for the next couple of months. Wasn't too hard as I knew some R. Got a casual role as tutor teaching data wrangling with SQL/R. On the side I work on reworking all of the teaching material to be rewritten in Pandas.

I am also working on writing a discord bot at the moment which I shall add to my portfolio. I am not good enough yet but will try to contribute by solving github 'Issues'

Now here is the problem, I am unable to get any interviews at all. Main reason being my residency status in the country. I don't have a proper country to fall back on. Tech jobs are pretty far behind in my country and I dont intend to live there(They hate athiests). This means I will be unemployable indefinitely until I am able to find a country that can provide me with a pathway to residency.

I hate having gaps in my resume due to issues outside of my control (I am 28 now).

What do you guys suggest? How would you pros deal with a situation like this?

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:24 AM

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I'm a natural American in America. I have no ability to give you any advice on how to figure out immigration issues.

Do you need the company to sponsor your residency in their country? Are you applying to companies in countries that you aren't living?

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:25 AM

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@hushed kestrel nah man I am not applying outside. Just applying where I live in Australia. I dont see the point why would anyone hire me especially when I am < 1 experience.

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:25 AM

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keep trying

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you might have luck with startups

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:25 AM

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I got 1yr3mos left on visa man 😢

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:26 AM

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Do you need sponsorship for residency ?

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:26 AM

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prob needs sponsorship for visa

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:26 AM

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Not really. Its different here.

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:26 AM

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and work permit

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:26 AM

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I dont need to be sponsored. I just need a company to be willing to give me a chance. I have full work rights till Feb 2021.

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:26 AM

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UHh

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:26 AM

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oh

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:27 AM

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you have 4 months?

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:27 AM

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thats coming up soon man

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:27 AM

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or feb 2021?

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Wonderful

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:27 AM

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fuck i mean 2021 xD

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:27 AM

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2021 sounds better lol

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:27 AM

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So. Your gap can be explained by immigrating ?

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I think the law of big numbers is going to save you

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:28 AM

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law of big numbers?

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:28 AM

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yea but who is gonna sympathise with me lol. They got better applicants

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:28 AM

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As well as playing up your proactive programming spirit

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:28 AM

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@fleet tartan make yourself a better applicant by ramping up your projects

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be proactive about it all. learn what people are looking for

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btw, do you have a degree? they do tend to take people with degrees more likely

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:29 AM

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I think python + excel + numpy + pandas probably covers 90% of use cases

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:29 AM

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I am supposed to be applying for data analyst roles but got very few call backs and 2 interviews so far.

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:29 AM

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But that doesn't mean that they even understand their use cases

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What is your callback %?

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:30 AM

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I have a masters degree in analytics

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:30 AM

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should be good for something

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:30 AM

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@hushed kestrel well I get rejected before the phone call stage itself due to my temporary nature of visa. All they send is an automated response

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:31 AM

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dont mention the visa

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until you have to i guess

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obv dont hide it but like mention it when in the interview

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:31 AM

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yea i got that advice from an HR person before. I have removed my visa section from the resume

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:31 AM

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dont apply saying you have a visa

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:32 AM

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I would go even further and if the online application makes you sign your visa status

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I would lie

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and then tell the person after you get an interview about your visa situation

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:32 AM

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hmm

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:32 AM

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WELL

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:32 AM

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by pass the system

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:32 AM

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I could go both ways

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Well

odd elk Oct 31, 2019, 4:32 AM

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Wee

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:32 AM

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In one way you are getting around the automated stuff

odd elk Oct 31, 2019, 4:32 AM

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Hello

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:33 AM

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better to go far than get rejected

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:33 AM

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Well

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If you talk to someone who doesn't have that as an issue

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they might feel that you have been deceptive right off the bat

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and that speaks to character, ect.

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:33 AM

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i am also trying to come up with a back up in case my visa expires and i still havent had a gig

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:33 AM

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I would be much more comfortable lying to larger companies than smaller tbh

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Haha

odd elk Oct 31, 2019, 4:34 AM

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Why are there multiple Help channels

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:34 AM

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Because more than 1 person needs help at one time

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:34 AM

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@odd elk can you imagine 20 people asking for help in the same channel and the clusterfk of a chat that it would be ? hahahaha

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:34 AM

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I dont suggest lying

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:35 AM

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Lying is a tool like anything else

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:35 AM

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yeah but I dont condone it

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:35 AM

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I had to lie my out of the shit hole

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:35 AM

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Be very judicious. Like fire, it can burn you up real bad

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:35 AM

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thats how i came to Au

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:35 AM

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I know how that goes.

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:35 AM

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I was unemployed inthe country where i was born

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again matters were out of my hands, it was a political issue

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i was unemployed after finishing bachelors for 2 years

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kept applying and interviweing

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only to get told off by HR. Sorry we dont hire people from your nationality

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:37 AM

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wait they say that?

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what nationality are you?

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:37 AM

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🙂

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Bangladesh

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:37 AM

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why would someone not hire someone from there

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:37 AM

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Well I was born in Dubai

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and our people are banned there

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:38 AM

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huh

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:38 AM

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cz our people got a bad rep there. So Dubai immigration decided to ban us from getting employment visa

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Yea like hell it was my fault

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anyways I feel like I was born with a curse

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:39 AM

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just apply in another country

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:39 AM

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some of us are not exactly fortunate

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:39 AM

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I think just applying a lot lot lot is the way to go, don't mention your visa status if it doesn't aply.

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:39 AM

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^

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:39 AM

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Yeah.

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:40 AM

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I understand the visa issues tho

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:40 AM

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I am applying for various roles as of now. Not just data analyst. I apply for grad software engineer, python programmer, data engineer

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:40 AM

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so hard to get my GF visa status

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:40 AM

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i will keep applying but cant figure out what to do after my visa time runs out

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:41 AM

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you got more than a year

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dont just apply for gigs

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get a job where you are employed

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:41 AM

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i am a casual tutor

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:41 AM

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imo you will have the best chance with startups

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and really beef up your projects and learn the tools that people want

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:42 AM

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yea gotta work on that. Just scared what is to happen once my visa runs out. There is so much opportunity here.

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:43 AM

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dont worry about your visa. nothing you can do about it

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just keep applying

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:43 AM

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I cant go back dubai tho

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I was born there but i am no citizen.

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:43 AM

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you know your options

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you hold a citizenship of some kind right?

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they will prob deport you where you are a citizen

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:44 AM

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yes citizen of Bangladesh. I would rather go somewhere else than go there. Its really bad for me.

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:44 AM

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well theres nothing we can do about it

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:45 AM

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😢

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anyways thanks for the advice @mint citrus and @hushed kestrel

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:46 AM

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How can you extend your visa?

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It's np

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:46 AM

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are you implying visa run?

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depends on if he can get back in without a visa

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:46 AM

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@hushed kestrel by doing another course here lol. That would put me on student visa. Which means i am unhireable again due to work restrictions

hushed kestrel Oct 31, 2019, 4:47 AM

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There are no ways to extend your work visa by working?

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:47 AM

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I did visa run twice

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well he would have to be hired

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and it seems he is stuck there

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:47 AM

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yep 😦

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:48 AM

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see if you can teach something as a last resort @fleet tartan

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:48 AM

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nah cant work and extend. I would have to be sponsored. I am not that good.

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 4:48 AM

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you could freelance but its more work with the visa

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and you gotta have money

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 4:48 AM

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😦

torpid bolt Oct 31, 2019, 7:21 AM

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It's OT, but yeah, visa systems are just unfair

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i would say try differernt strategies with different employers, for some be ready to accept a low offer for an entry position, for some ask for the things an Au citizen would ask, as it would look less suspicious. Study the companies before applying, to make cover letters about why you would be a good fit. Also try to have a few projects in your github, not quick filles projects, things you really put some time and thinking into.

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But reading your first messages, it seems you have a good shot at this, you have some work xp here already, so some network (and you can go to events to build more, you'll find people relate more to people they met than who they only got a letter from), and some projects, one year will go fast, sure, but you can build plenty opportunities in that time.

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 8:25 AM

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@fleet tartan did you remove you nationality along with visa status from resume?

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 8:34 AM

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@torpid bolt thanks for your advice. Yea realised during my last few months not all companies have same attitude.

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@marsh wind I am following the Australian format of resume. Never include nationality here. Only visa status

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 8:46 AM

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Ok

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Just checking

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 8:57 AM

#

@marsh wind thanks tho

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:01 AM

#

@fleet tartan yeah, no problem :) but for the rest I don't know what to tell you cause I'm in a similarish situation -abroad looking for jobs

fleet tartan Oct 31, 2019, 9:02 AM

#

@marsh wind how bad is it back in your home country

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:03 AM

#

Not awfully bad, bur still shitty (Ukraine)

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:06 AM

#

didnt know it was bad in Ukraine

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:46 AM

#

@marsh wind what are u talking bout?

#

ukraine is fking great for great devs

#

4k usd 5% tax, will have u living like a boss there, and you would not have more to spend after taxes in other western EU countries anyway, with higher living costs

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:49 AM

#

thats if you get 4k usd

#

usually natives are not paid as much as foreigners

#

for my current position, they would pay a native half the amount for the same work

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:50 AM

#

foerigners?

#

are u a ukranian located in ukraine ?

#

well

#

my buddy was ukranian

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:51 AM

#

no. but I can see it happening there

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:51 AM

#

and his salary was more than 4k

#

so

#

lol, ok, dont imagine stuff

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:51 AM

#

he prob got a very good job

#

i doubt its your average salary in Ukraine

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:51 AM

#

foreigners are usually underpaid due to not being local, why else would u hire a foreigner

#

unless an epert consultant, but thats diff anyway

#

its not

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:52 AM

#

depends where

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:52 AM

#

he is a senior java dev

#

and was not in top range pay considering skills

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:52 AM

#

prob cause he senior. did he start with that salary?

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:52 AM

#

id say 3-5k for such

#

are u asking if a senior started as junior with same salary lol?

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:53 AM

#

btw you talking monthly salary right?

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:53 AM

#

yes

#

and that is a boss pay in ukraine

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:53 AM

#

no i mean was his starting salary (after uni or what not) 4k?

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:53 AM

#

ofc not

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:53 AM

#

yeah I think @marsh wind isnt at that level yet

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:53 AM

#

@viral ridge my buddy has 5k so yes I know.

#

But I didn't mean it's shitty on lvl of dev salary

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:54 AM

#

whats the average salary tho?

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:54 AM

#

300-400?

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:54 AM

#

for a dev in Ukraine?

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:54 AM

#

Ah for Dev

#

Idk he started with 800

#

Or so

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:54 AM

#

thats a bit low

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:54 AM

#

Not for Ukraine tho

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:55 AM

#

name of the game

#

juniors get underpaid

#

normal to get a 3x-4x salary later in career

#

whereas in my country

#

u hit the gold if u achieve 2x your starting salary

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:55 AM

#

As non dev, you are lucky to have 400$ after good degree

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:55 AM

#

where is your country?

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:56 AM

#

on earth:)

#

scandin.

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:56 AM

#

what country are you in

#

ah fuck internet 😦

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:56 AM

#

scandi

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:56 AM

#

But I meant that Ukraine is shitty not dev job wise. But the political situation is shitty. So is situation for non dev

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:56 AM

#

i see. no idea about the salaries there

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:56 AM

#

well, the girls aint shitty

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

Or no IT to be precise

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

ah i see that point

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

politics matter not to an anarchist like myself^^

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

My girlfriend is a biologist and there are literally no jobs for hee

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

oh shot

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

Except maybe a lab to so blood and blah blah analysks

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

haha well

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

hehe

#

my GF is food scientist and has the same issue here

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:57 AM

#

With 300-400$ and 9-9 job

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:58 AM

#

my gf is dumped

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:58 AM

#

6/7 dags

#

Days

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:58 AM

#

oof 9-9 job

#

yeah my GF works 6 days a week

#

but only 8 hour job

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:58 AM

#

my issue tho

#

i cant use keyboard and mouse, so im fked as a dev for now

#

well, i can, with insane pain lvls

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:58 AM

#

There is almost no R&D in Ukraine :(

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:58 AM

#

that sucks

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:58 AM

#

2 paths

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 9:59 AM

#

damn work internet is def derping now

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:59 AM

#

learn pythong and voice code the shit out of it. 2. go crazy

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 9:59 AM

#

I was aiming for academic career initially, hence I got out of Ukraine for starters

#

But I am dumping that idea now

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 9:59 AM

#

6days x8hours work a week god damn.

#

where di u move

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:00 AM

#

France

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:00 AM

#

oh

#

and now returning?

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:00 AM

#

No, I search here

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:00 AM

#

u said dumpin the idea

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:00 AM

#

The idea of academic research 😉

#

Not working here /living

#

Sorry if wasn't clear.

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:01 AM

#

yes

#

career != research

#

but gotcha

#

so working as dev?

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:02 AM

#

Looking for job yeah, learning python and machine learning

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:02 AM

#

but u dont have a CS study behind?

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:02 AM

#

No

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:02 AM

#

Oof

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:02 AM

#

Theoretical physics

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:02 AM

#

Oh nice

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:02 AM

#

That was my PhD

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:03 AM

#

i see

#

if u enjoy data science, thats a pursuit to consider

#

but its not for everyone

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:04 AM

#

He probably has the math for it

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:05 AM

#

the "joy" is as important:P

#

like, data scientist streamline and look at data

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:06 AM

#

True

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:06 AM

#

sft eng. build systems

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:06 AM

#

Unfortunately I was dumb enough to not try to use or incorporate python during my PhD (and I really didn't know the market) so had to learn it from scratch. Fortunately it's not hard to learn language

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:06 AM

#

Just do a bunch of projects with it

#

It's never too late

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:06 AM

#

never too late

#

im certain this guy younger than me

#

surely never:P

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:07 AM

#

27

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:07 AM

#

Who me?

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:07 AM

#

oh the youth

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:07 AM

#

Yah I know :)

#

I am optimistic

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:07 AM

#

32 n counting sigh

#

😄

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:07 AM

#

I'm 27 too

#

But I have already 8 years of work experience

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:08 AM

#

But I had phone screens with dumb HR aka: 'oh you used Fortran but no python/C/Java? Goodbye I don't care that you can learn fast'

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:09 AM

#

hahaha

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:09 AM

#

Oh I hate HR

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:09 AM

#

well, to be fair i would have done the same

#

but its not hard to "claim" to know java or python after having done 1 day of tuts

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:10 AM

#

You gotta wing it

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:10 AM

#

fake it till u make it

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:10 AM

#

Pretend you know to get through HR

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:10 AM

#

😁

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:10 AM

#

Yep pretty much

#

That's where you learn most

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:10 AM

#

Foe someone applying for entry /junior lvl?
Yeah I think I have to say smth like I used python for some internal data vis blag blah

#

Or small analysis

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:12 AM

#

im off, need a break with these shitty hands

#

good chat, take care

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:12 AM

#

Well not to explicitly lie but make it look like I had some experience

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:12 AM

#

See ya

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:12 AM

#

Take care

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:12 AM

#

@marsh wind yeah that's how you do it

viral ridge Oct 31, 2019, 10:12 AM

#

"do u have any projects to show us"?

#

"No, I only worked on private/closed projects"

#

gg

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:13 AM

#

I mean when you have xp that's kinda ok

#

You just gotta bring some references

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:15 AM

#

Well yeah, I have started to work on some Kaggle with another PhD wanna be data scientist :) plus, don't laugh, but some closed project with few guys in US. 😂

#

Also oj side I mess with discord.py for bot

#

Along brushing up SQL

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:16 AM

#

Looks like you have been doing stuff

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:17 AM

#

And since discord.py is heavily OOP and uses some rather advanced concepts I think, while it's not Data science related still will be smth to show

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:17 AM

#

Yeah def

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:17 AM

#

Yeah trying too, correct

mint citrus Oct 31, 2019, 10:18 AM

#

Well work ended

#

Imma head home

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 10:18 AM

#

Plus (OK that's more like a dream 😂) who know maybe I can incorporate some NLP in bot. Or something different to put ML thsre

#

Would be cool

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 1:34 PM

#

Guys I was wondering, has anyone used Machine Learning to earn money. I can make models prediction, plots. But I am looking how this skill can help me make money. I have a job but it doesn't use any of this, am young to be hired as a data scientist.

#

Where to start and where can I find people who need this skill and can pay me for applying Machine Learning

hardy ferry Oct 31, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

machine learning is a relatively new field. You will have to look for companies that explicitely look for people with skills in machine learning.
Beware many of those offers are in the research field (e.g. coupled to a university) and they don't pay well. It is hard to apply machine learning in the industry because the standards are really high and what you know now will not be enough.

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 1:38 PM

#

What do you mean by standards are High? Example

#

Machine Learning is 4 yrs old. Google, Amazon have already made tremendously powerful models, platforms. A lot of people are using it. Almost every popular website.

gilded valley Oct 31, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

Machine Learning is 4 yrs old thats just wrong

ember flower Oct 31, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

lol

#

It has been designed decades ago

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

@gilded valley pls elaborate. I meant it's been around for long time. It has become a buzz word recently

gilded valley Oct 31, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

ok

#

thats not what you said though

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

Any suggestions for my question?

ember flower Oct 31, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

Seek for a data-scientist job

#

That would be the main way to use your skills

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

They won't hire me without experience. I tried

#

Is it possible to freelance this skill. Anyone tried it?

gilded valley Oct 31, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

Get a university degree or PHD

#

freelancing for machine learning seems like its probably practically impossible

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

@gilded valley I was think of Masters but then again, they will teach me what I already know. Plus the fees and expenses.

gilded valley Oct 31, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

what is your current university degree in?

#

where do you work at the moment, and what country?

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 1:50 PM

#

India,. I work at TCS. I have an Engineering degree.

gilded valley Oct 31, 2019, 1:51 PM

#

can you not try and move towards a data science role within your current company?

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

It's very hard. Lateral movement is almost impossible. Very rare.

#

The point is, can

#

Can this skill help me earn money via freelance?

#

Or solving simple tasks maybe analysis tasks, data insights task

gilded valley Oct 31, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

It seems incredibly unlikely to me, but maybe someone else on the server has attempted it and knows better

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 1:54 PM

#

Ya guess I have to wait for an answer then

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 2:14 PM

#

if you look through some freelace sites, like upwork there are machine learning opportunities there @vapid jay @gilded valley how well they pay and how hard they are too get it's a totally diferent question

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 2:15 PM

#

I've heard up work is bad

#

You get one job then the rest are bots

#

Same with the others

#

Thanks @marsh wind. Guess I have to make a strong portfolio before I apply for such sites.

marsh wind Oct 31, 2019, 2:19 PM

#

yeah @vapid jay it could be. I don't know if there are any really good ones though... Just gave an example - never used any, but I am registered on upwork

#

hence I saw that the offers exist

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 5:31 PM

#

I have an interview tomorrow for a 'platform engineer'. Very vague jobspec mentioned only python, not really any technologies...
I think platform engineer can either mean 'docker, AWS, automation' or 'sets up CI servers and stuff'.
Can you think of anything else it might mean?

toxic vessel Oct 31, 2019, 5:42 PM

#

I think you are most likely correct, but that mostly it's unhelpfully nondescript, which seems to be inline with the job listing in general. You'll find out soon enough. The vagueness would be a red flag for me as it potentially prevents the company from finding an ideal candidate in a hurry, I'd ask about it or their general process during the interview to see if there's a reason or if that's normal for them

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 5:57 PM

#

thanks @toxic vessel

vapid jay Oct 31, 2019, 11:12 PM

#

The vagueness can also mean that the job description isnt totally decided on

#

If its a larger company then they probably just have an open head count and a relative idea of what you'd be doing

vapid jay Nov 1, 2019, 10:31 AM

#

Imis anyone here an expert in TF programs, like I knows what hidden layers are and has written codes for tensor flow. I have a co-lab notebook fully written with each step explained. I get an error at last part. I have tried everything. I help and means in which I can send him the Notebook. It's a simple program.

#

Lot of typo*

vapid jay Nov 1, 2019, 2:23 PM

#

@vapid jay what did you do with ML? if you can proove that you are good at ML and TF i will hire you.

indigo sleet Nov 1, 2019, 2:24 PM

#

I don't think they allow recruiting here

red nebula Nov 1, 2019, 2:25 PM

#

guys I need help in this how to prepare for this hacker rank challenge

#

ive never done these type of tests before

red nebula Nov 1, 2019, 2:48 PM

#

its a 120 minute test

gilded valley Nov 1, 2019, 2:58 PM

#

when do you need to do the test by?

red nebula Nov 1, 2019, 2:58 PM

#

Im not sure it doesnt say

gilded valley Nov 1, 2019, 2:58 PM

#

Its almost certainly worth gettting in some practice on sites like Codesignal, or Leetcode first

#

I think even Hackerrank itself has a lot of practice problems

red nebula Nov 1, 2019, 2:59 PM

#

yeah hackerrank has a few practice problems Ive noticed

vapid jay Nov 1, 2019, 3:11 PM

#

But I think codechef and codeforce would be great for a program to practice....

#

@vapid jay. So far my projects have been with inbuilt datasets.

One involving extraction of live Cryptocurrency values worth and prediction of future trend.(the website does it anyways, I do the same with my code)

I have worked with classification of penguin dataset. Its more complex than it sounds.

These were TF programs.

Simple machine learning I have Benn doint it for past year. Am well versed with all famous algorithms.

But ultimately application of machine learning depends on the problem and project output itself. So if you need a guy feel free to connect.

keen bloom Nov 1, 2019, 9:11 PM

#

What sort of python related jobs can you imagine a seventeen/eighteen year old student have ?

#

like, are there any areas which don't require you to have a full fleshed university degree?

stark heron Nov 1, 2019, 9:32 PM

#

Freelancing

#

Sign up on a freelancing website, put in your skills and data, search for available jobs and get paid

humble elm Nov 1, 2019, 9:54 PM

#

Does anyone have info on how its like to work for defence contractors like lmco?

gilded valley Nov 1, 2019, 9:55 PM

#

In the UK at least I know the vetting process is very thorough

humble elm Nov 1, 2019, 9:55 PM

#

What kind of though?

#

Like I cant have a criminal record or something more serious

gilded valley Nov 1, 2019, 10:10 PM

#

They look at your friends and family and their details. Depending on the level of clearance they can ask about all sorts of things ranging from porn habits, online games you play, and times you've broken the law

humble elm Nov 1, 2019, 10:10 PM

#

Hmmm

📎 Screenshot_20191101-231023.png

#

Clearance level: secret

gilded valley Nov 1, 2019, 10:11 PM

#

Is that us?

humble elm Nov 1, 2019, 10:11 PM

#

Yeah

gilded valley Nov 1, 2019, 10:11 PM

#

Is there a reason you don't want to be vetted?

humble elm Nov 1, 2019, 10:11 PM

#

No hahaha

#

Thing is that ive lived in germany all my life. But I have us citizenship

#

So the question is really if I have to get residence first

gilded valley Nov 1, 2019, 10:12 PM

#

Ah. I think that might be an issue, I'm pretty sure it would be for the uk

#

Why not just apply and find out?

humble elm Nov 1, 2019, 10:13 PM

#

Fair enough

#

I dont even know if I would want to work there.

#

I could imagine in r&d but id image working for someone like lmco is quite the experience haha

short locust Nov 2, 2019, 6:34 AM

#

I am creating the front end and ~50% back end of an application for work.
This application is going to be presented at tradeshows.
If I put the most work, do you think it is appropriate to indicate somewhere not that noticeable on the frontend that "supported/created by: Christopher M." ?
but also make it very clear and noticed "POWERED BY: Company name" with their logo.

hushed kestrel Nov 2, 2019, 6:38 AM

#

I don't have a lot of experience at this

#

But it depends on what sort of presentation it is

#

And what you are hoping to achieve from adding a nod to yourself

#

If you are looking to get hired someplace, it probably matters more that you get the app into your prospect's hands and declare that you wrote 50% of it or something.

#

If you are just trying to build an industry rep by having a watermark someplace that said that you developed it..I doubt it'll get you that far unless maybe a competitor finds the app super compelling and wants to poach you

short locust Nov 2, 2019, 6:50 AM

#

Interesting, the reason I ask is because I know for a fact the president of the company will be at the tradeshow and will view this application

#

@hushed kestrel Thank you for your input

hushed kestrel Nov 2, 2019, 6:55 AM

#

@short locust Asking for forgiveness is better than permission. You may get flack for it. I would suggest asking the sales department if it would be okay

short locust Nov 2, 2019, 6:58 AM

#

@hushed kestrel I respect that

hushed kestrel Nov 2, 2019, 6:58 AM

#

If you ask sales, they give you the okay, you put it in

#

This could be seen as either taking initiative or going over someone's head

#

It's dicey and dependent on your relationships with the company

#

ect ect

vapid jay Nov 2, 2019, 12:23 PM

#

So if i have no fucking friends, i have a low chance getting a job?

#

@humble elm Ah i see you got a Huawei device aswell, Honor?

humble elm Nov 2, 2019, 12:25 PM

#

yeah

#

how did you know?

vapid jay Nov 2, 2019, 12:26 PM

#

Is it 7s? Becouse my phone is literally Huawei Honor 7s, and it has a customized UI aswell whit the seconds shown and whit all the icons disallowed.

#

Looks like i'm not alone using the hours, minutes and seconds time.

humble elm Nov 2, 2019, 12:32 PM

#

not actually sure

#

honor8

#

pretty happy with it. had it for a few years now

vapid jay Nov 2, 2019, 12:38 PM

#

Cool, my mom doesn't buy me expensive or decent tech so i have to live whit budget until i get a job.

#

I can't bare whit mine. The OS eats all the ram and PUBG runs slow as fuck. I can't play decent games and basically the device itself is bad.

real python Nov 2, 2019, 12:40 PM

#

Seems like a conversation for somewhere other than the careers channel

vapid jay Nov 2, 2019, 12:40 PM

#

Sorry!

loud marsh Nov 3, 2019, 2:14 AM

#

Hey guys! I have a question about education, I'm about to graduate with a business degree (mostly IT focused) so it's mostly focused to make us business analysts. But I hate that. I want to be more technical and use my brain more since I'm more of a nerd than a ''people person''. Should I do a more STEM masters? Like try to get a masters in CS or Software engineering? Would that be a good idea or just a waste of time

vapid jay Nov 3, 2019, 2:16 AM

#

@loud marsh the amount a masters degree is valued depends on the company

#

how badly do you want to stay in higher education?

loud marsh Nov 3, 2019, 2:17 AM

#

but since my undergrad isn't STEM and I want to work in a technical job and don't want to do like ''business stuff'', wouldn't that be a good idea?

#

@vapid jay

vapid jay Nov 3, 2019, 2:32 AM

#

@loud marsh depends if you want to spend another 2 years in school, personally without knowing what your real goals are in the long term, I think looking for a job at a company that would put you in a technical role but not software engineering (maybe data science?) and also has those roles available at the company could be a viable option

#

In the end of the day it's gonna come down to what you wanna do

#

But

#

Most decent sized companies, I think, will do tuition reimbursement

#

So if you go take courses in a software eng related field, theyll pay you for it with whatever their terms are

#

And you can make relationships along the way with people internally that could help you make a job change

#

The only thing that would deter me from the staying in college route is that you put yourself out of the workforce for another 1-2 years depending on the length of the program

#

potentially taking on more debt

loud marsh Nov 3, 2019, 2:38 AM

#

@vapid jay I can get into data science with only a undergrad in business IT? Data science requires like a masters and a PHD in a STEM field, no? But yeah I understand your point. I just want to work in a more math field or like developer etc... Being a business analyst is a huge turn off for me, since Business analysts are required to be good communicator and talk to a lot of people (I'm not a good communicator since I'm shy and nervous, and I don't really like to talk to people all day as a job. I prefer to solve problems and stuff like that). Idk if you understand what I mean

vapid jay Nov 3, 2019, 2:42 AM

#

You will need to communicate to work for more jobs

#

If youre shy and nervous its something you should work on overcoming, at least to be able to talk to people to collaborate

#

if you wanna go back to school for 2 years then go ahead. I personally would hate that

loud marsh Nov 3, 2019, 2:46 AM

#

I love working in groups and talk to people in a group. Just hate like public speaking and stuff like that

#

what job are you doing at the moment @vapid jay ? If you don't mind me asking

vapid jay Nov 3, 2019, 2:47 AM

#

sre type role

loud marsh Nov 3, 2019, 2:48 AM

#

oh kk

#

well I tot about doing a masters in computer science, mostly focused on AI. Idk if that is a good idea. also considering if they would accept me at all (since I don't have a STEM undergrad)

vapid jay Nov 3, 2019, 2:50 AM

#

well for that youll never know until you apply

#

you could just apply for jobs and gra dschool at te same time and then consider which you'd rather do

loud marsh Nov 3, 2019, 2:56 AM

#

I guess that is a good idea and even if I'm accepted at grad school, I still have time to look for a job in the meanwhile and make a decision

#

I was thinking about applying for :

CS 2) SE 3) data science
But I heard bad things about data science, saying it's a bit useless to get a masters in data science

#

Also do you think I still can apply for developer jobs even tho I have a business IT degree?

neon moat Nov 3, 2019, 8:01 AM

#

if you are an employee you do not own any part of the app. You have been paid for your time building it. This is the most ego tripping thing I have seen so far. You get paid for your time. The company owns the app not you.
If you want to go build your own company then you can tell everyone how amazing you are

#

@short locust

#

@loud marsh yes, you can apply with any degree. just have the skills the job requires

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:23 AM

#

👋

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:23 AM

#

👋

#

okay, but yeah

#

i was just worried since

#

my gpa isn't all that great

#

so i was trying to make up for it

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:24 AM

#

do you prefer using C or Java?

#

they are typically not associated with the same job

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:24 AM

#

well, from experiences, definitely java

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:24 AM

#

they CAN be but it's rare

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:24 AM

#

i'd only say from experience, because

#

C is my most recent language

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:24 AM

#

you may want to focus on one

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:24 AM

#

so i'm starting to finally get used to it over java

#

ah okay,

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:25 AM

#

be a T shaped person

#

be familiar with a lot of skills and proficient with a few

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:25 AM

#

i guess i'll start with java

#

and eventually i definitely want to learn c++

#

so, if i'm very proficient in java, and also have projects with java

#

i can definitely land a lot of internships right

#

especially towards the field i want

#

well, by a lot i mean

#

the companies who do work with java**

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:26 AM

#

c++ is a great language, though I might caution you to consider learning rust instead if this is going to be a future thing

#

c++ is only great because it was the best at doing what it was written to do

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:26 AM

#

mm i was thinknig

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:26 AM

#

in my opinion this is no longer the case

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:26 AM

#

maybe it will help me with landing my first job

#

aka in a year and a half

#

or a year

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:27 AM

#

if you can produce just one portfolio item with either java c, or even python if you can learn it, you're fine

#

job experience will always be more valuable, so just start somewhere small and go from there

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:28 AM

#

yeah, that makes sense

#

i do have

#

somewhat big dreams for the future

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:28 AM

#

finding the first job is the hard part

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:28 AM

#

but i guess i could just

#

climb from my first job

#

i mean that sounds like a stupid and obvious statement but

#

whawt i mean is,

#

even if im starting a little late right now

#

it's nowhere near too late

#

if i want to end up with a great career later

#

hey thanks a lot btw though

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:29 AM

#

no problem

#

I'm a student myself so I'm still learning about the big world of software myself lol

#

I am repeating words cus I'm tired ahdjfkkfsj

#

a dream job for me would be working for Mozilla

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:30 AM

#

ah mozilla

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:30 AM

#

they're changing a lot of things in really great ways

#

they aren't just creating products

#

rust, the adoption of webassembly, parallelism in browsers, standardization of web

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:32 AM

#

haha, i wish i knew what some of those meant

#

but i see that ur really emphasizing that rust is rising up

#

maybe i should really look into it

#

for future

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:33 AM

#

I'm fairly preachy about it but you can look for yourself

#

it's consistently the most loved language and it's getting more attention year after year

#

I barely understand rust but I can really appreciate its goals

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:35 AM

#

rust is nice because of static typing, borrow checker and good dependency manager

#

basically it makes it very difficult to have code blow up in production

#

but it also has a decently high barrier to entry

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:35 AM

#

cargo is what every language should have but doesn't

#

literally the best dev tool

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:36 AM

#

weve got maven for java and nuget for C#

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:36 AM

#

yeah learning rust is hard

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:36 AM

#

theyre also totally fine

#

if you had to pick a single language today, it should very probably be C#

#

but you dont!

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:37 AM

#

why c#

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:37 AM

#

its mature, has good support, excellent IDE, large user base, large library base etc etc

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:39 AM

#

@timber basin i actually

#

worked with c# using unity

#

but it's

#

so so so similar to java

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:39 AM

#

yes

red wagon Nov 3, 2019, 10:39 AM

#

in fact, i only spotted like a few differences only

#

what's the difference in terms of syntax?

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:40 AM

#

well, give it a few years lol

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:40 AM

#

c# improves upon the annoying syntax in java

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:40 AM

#

the basic stuff is pretty alike, since that was the purpose of the language

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:40 AM

#

so it's hard to just list it all

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:40 AM

#

its microsoft saying what if java, but better

#

anyway. knowing both java and C# is important

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:43 AM

#

I guess I'm just not a fan of languages that compile to an intermediary language

#

it's certainly useful but not my thing

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:43 AM

#

weird stance to take

#

if this was a c discord id get it 😛

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:46 AM

#

if you want to consider optimization, you have to sort of sidestep the shared language by being really specific about things

#

lol true

#

I mean python is the first language I ever learned

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:46 AM

#

if you need to squeeze the max performance out of a system, then yeah dont use C# or java

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:46 AM

#

I still love it a lot but I'm working to get away from it

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 10:46 AM

#

if the 5-10% hit is fine, as it usually is, then..

#

in real projects maintainability is usually way more important than performance especially now that spinning up a new node is so easy

#

not always of course, but usually

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 10:47 AM

#

remember this is the perspective of a student

#

all of my hopes and dreams and personal opinions will be crushed brutally by the opinions of any company I work for

#

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it

#

I'm also part of the "kill javascript" bandwagon

marsh wind Nov 3, 2019, 10:54 AM

#

if you need to squeeze the max performance out of a system, then yeah dont use C# or java
Yeah that's job of C... Or Fortran :)

#

But a max performance is typically needed for heavy computations, games... In most businesses cases people usually care about how fast they can write and debug the app and then to deploy and maintain

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 11:03 AM

#

I'm gonna fall back on talking about rust again but, using maintainability as an excuse nowadays isn't really reasonable considering rust being as popular as it is

#

it's kinda just negligence at this point

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 11:03 AM

#

thats all well and good but how much penetration do you think rust has into business systems

#

dont get me wrong, i really like rust

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 11:03 AM

#

none but that will change

#

just wait

#

I have faith

#

fingers crossed still but I have faith

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 11:04 AM

#

yeah. im advocating to do a rewrite of some of our systems in rust

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 11:04 AM

#

it's like USB type x

#

c

#

everyone was like

#

nah

#

then a few switched

#

and people were like wtf but

#

look at us now

#

eventually we all switched

#

obviously this is much more trivial but

#

you get the idea

#

if something is better people will use it

#

it might take time but that's okay

marsh wind Nov 3, 2019, 11:06 AM

#

I think it's about being proactive for software engineers to try like Ogg mentioned above to push rust in slowly

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 11:06 AM

#

we're increasingly capable of that now that business models are shifting

marsh wind Nov 3, 2019, 11:06 AM

#

And their managers being flexible :)

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 11:06 AM

#

yeah. rewriting a million line c++ codebase in rust is not realistic

#

but rewriting a relatively small service might be

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 11:07 AM

#

more and more companies are trusting their devs to make big changes

#

waterfall is less common

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 11:07 AM

#

oh sweet summer child

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 11:07 AM

#

sure waterfall is still pretty damn big but again it's all gradual

marsh wind Nov 3, 2019, 11:07 AM

#

Or some new feature and modules that aren't necessarily same cods

timber basin Nov 3, 2019, 11:08 AM

#

agile doesnt mean rewriting critical systems

#

im with you in spirit, but thats just not the case

marsh wind Nov 3, 2019, 11:08 AM

#

What's waterfall? :)

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 11:08 AM

#

agile means you CAN rewrite the critical systems

#

that's all I'm suggesting

#

it may be something that a developer starts in their own time

#

waterfall is the business ideal that you can just plan everything ahead of time for a project, do all of the work required without changing the plan and then ship

#

agile is about being open to changing the plan and scrutinizing your work process frequently

marsh wind Nov 3, 2019, 11:11 AM

#

yeah I knew what's agile apporach

#

but not the waterfall

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 11:11 AM

#

gotcha

marsh wind Nov 3, 2019, 11:11 AM

#

I saw agile in many job descriptons, but never waterffall

distant umbra Nov 3, 2019, 11:12 AM

#

they never want to admit it haha

#

it's like putting a GMO label of your food

#

like why

#

I am way too tired

#

I can't type anymore

vapid jay Nov 3, 2019, 2:00 PM

#

Agile is about selling you stuff by consultants who know teh real agile

torpid bolt Nov 3, 2019, 4:09 PM

#

waterfall is a strawman, it's been originaly described in a paper saying that it's what people should not do.

#

it's meant to be burned at the stake

#

some people obviously ran with it, of course.

indigo sleet Nov 3, 2019, 4:11 PM

#

It feels like that Monty Python and the Holy Grail sketch, with the two guards that just can't listen

#

Waterfall is the one where the people higher up the chain pick the tasks they want and leave the rest for the others, right?

torpid bolt Nov 3, 2019, 4:15 PM

#

hm, i wouldn't say that, it's more about the hubris of assuming you know all there is to know about your system before building

#

though there are places where you have the resources and constraints that justify it

#

i assume NASA, for example, knows to a high precision what they are going to build before starting the actual development

indigo sleet Nov 3, 2019, 4:17 PM

#

Yeah, maybe

frigid whale Nov 3, 2019, 9:23 PM

#

Guys, I got an interview tomorrow (for remote) and since its the first time I'm doing one I have no idea how to prepar

#

its for a remote position

torpid bolt Nov 3, 2019, 9:42 PM

#

it's too late to brush up on technical things i guess, so mostly try to relax, you'll make mistakes, maybe you won't have questions when they ask if you have some (try to think of good general questions now though), and think about challenges you've had in the past and how you overcame them, stuff like this tend to be discussed, but the point is, they are not out to get you, if there is anything unclear or if you have doubts, ask for clarifications, it's better to say that you don't know than trying to make things up, and they'll help you recover when you make a mistake, so listen for hints and feedback.

#

they want to know how it'll be to work with you, not if you know everything

#

i don't think i came out as a great engineer in my last interview, and i still got a generous offer for a position.

reef marsh Nov 4, 2019, 3:20 AM

#

@last walrus This channel is not for recruitment, so can you remove the link? You can certainly ask about that in one of the off topic channel / in the #python-discussion

last walrus Nov 4, 2019, 3:21 AM

#

Sure, thanks!

#

And also where is Rule10 located?

reef marsh Nov 4, 2019, 3:21 AM

#

We do have a policy to only allow invitation to whitelisted servers as well, if you want yours to be whitelisted, you can ask one of the admins and ask about the process

last walrus Nov 4, 2019, 3:21 AM

#

Thanks!

velvet kite Nov 4, 2019, 3:21 AM

#

@last walrus that will have to change, we recently revamped our rules. it's currently Rule 6

last walrus Nov 4, 2019, 3:21 AM

#

Oh, Okay

#

Oh yes I see it

#

So where can I post that?

velvet kite Nov 4, 2019, 3:22 AM

#

also, it seems to be an open source project, so rather than advertising the server, you can just showcase the project in #303934982764625920. Be sure to check the channel description first

last walrus Nov 4, 2019, 3:22 AM

#

Sure.. I wasn't actually advertising it, but rather asking people to help. Would that also be appropriate?

velvet kite Nov 4, 2019, 3:23 AM

#

yes, you're free to showcase and ask for collaboration/contribution to the project there

last walrus Nov 4, 2019, 3:24 AM

#

Alright

foggy birch Nov 4, 2019, 4:26 PM

#

what are some projects that look impressive on github

real python Nov 4, 2019, 4:29 PM

#

Python https://github.com/python/cpython

open stag Nov 4, 2019, 4:29 PM

#

oh heck

ember flower Nov 4, 2019, 4:36 PM

#

100k commits, more than 900PRs waiting, that's huge!

torpid bolt Nov 4, 2019, 4:46 PM

#

and what, 2 paid full time people equivalents to manage that?

#

all the rest full time volunteers

mild zenith Nov 4, 2019, 4:49 PM

#

I know that feel

open stag Nov 4, 2019, 4:53 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

ember flower Nov 4, 2019, 5:24 PM

#

@open stag Which language?

open stag Nov 4, 2019, 5:25 PM

#

Not a language

#

It's the Linux repo

gilded valley Nov 4, 2019, 5:52 PM

#

Have you had someone check over your cv/cover letters?

short locust Nov 4, 2019, 6:12 PM

#

@neon moat I wouldn't say it is really an ego thing, and yes I am being paid fairly well to do this, but it was just something I was curious about. recognition should be given were deserved. Don't bust a nut over it, sir

#

and to be clear, I was curious.

dim sand Nov 4, 2019, 8:57 PM

#

Hey guys I was wondering if I could get an honest opinion on how online certificates offered by companies (IBM) via edX look on portfolios? https://www.edx.org/professional-certificate/python-data-science . I am currently switching careers and self-teaching. Because of that every investment of money+time matters. I have heard alot of different oppinions on self taught vs bootcamp vs formal education. I was wondering how would professional certificates like the one listed fit into that

edX

Python Data Science

Launch your career in data science with hands-on Python skills.

quasi surge Nov 4, 2019, 9:00 PM

#

online certificates are not usually taken very seriously

#

appart from a few exceptions

indigo sleet Nov 4, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

Can be very useful for experience regardless

#

It really depends on the field though

dim sand Nov 4, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

From what I understand if you lack a formal degree, it is critical to develop a strong portfolio with certifications to help bevy your experience

marsh wind Nov 4, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

What about deeplearning.ai? Heard lots of good things

dim sand Nov 4, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

do you feel like thats true?

quasi surge Nov 4, 2019, 9:02 PM

#

no it's not

#

the critical thing is having stuff that can showcase your skills

#

having a project in production is worth a thousand cert

marsh wind Nov 4, 2019, 9:04 PM

#

Certificates alone are little more then nothing....

indigo sleet Nov 4, 2019, 9:04 PM

#

The jury is out, really

quasi surge Nov 4, 2019, 9:04 PM

#

and the other very critical thing is knowing people in the industry

indigo sleet Nov 4, 2019, 9:04 PM

#

Some employers like them, some don't

rare sand Nov 4, 2019, 9:04 PM

#

in my experience as someone who has a dozen certs, most see it as a good thing but not a major thing. some disregard them completely.

compared to a degree, they won't be anywhere near as useful, but they do demonstrate passion, and a certain amount of go-getterism that some value.

#

a nice portfolio is 10x as valuable as all the certs you can shake a stick at.

#

so is open source experience.

#

so imo, do a course if it'll teach you something, but don't collect them to compensate for a lack of formal education

#

your time is better spent working on projects.

indigo sleet Nov 4, 2019, 9:08 PM

#

Also don't put an oracle java cert on your CV for a java job unless they're big oracle nuts

#

:|

dim sand Nov 4, 2019, 9:11 PM

#

I really appreciate the candid oppinion

#

do you feel like the same can be said for Bootcamps ? A strong portfolio and project list far outweigh the benefit and time of a bootcamp?

marsh wind Nov 4, 2019, 9:17 PM

#

I heard that key bootcamp issue is quality. There are so many of them, and so few are good

dim sand Nov 4, 2019, 9:19 PM

#

I have definitely heard the same thing

#

And have heard a real mix on outro interviews of people who have been in them

#

some saying it was integral to their career, others saying they just ripped everything from youtube etc etc

marsh wind Nov 4, 2019, 9:26 PM

#

And potentially they cost a lot

nova mango Nov 4, 2019, 9:32 PM

#

How do you keep motivated to code your own projects after a whole day of programming at work?

quasi surge Nov 4, 2019, 9:40 PM

#

I don't

#

I code on my own projects during lunch breaks or weekends

#

it's more a matter of energy than motivation tho

torpid bolt Nov 4, 2019, 11:02 PM

#

motivation gets you started, discipline gets you going

#

but i do spend less time these days programing at home than i did a few years ago

hushed kestrel Nov 4, 2019, 11:58 PM

#

@nova mango I actually think the answer to your question is nuanced on the reason why you are developing projects in your free time.

If it is for fun, you should find another person to work on projects with and meet them at a location and work with eachother to push forward

If you are trying to learn, you need to conserve some energy throughout the day and create a routine where you take 1.5-2 h a night taking a class / working on a project. (Develop a ritual)

If you are doing things that are professional, I suggest working on the weekends and doing 8 hour pushes)

#

Obviously slotting only a single approach to a broad issue, but understanding the framing and the methods to achieve your goals is still important

#

(Btw, you'll have more energy to work on good projects if you develop good habits . (Habits that don't require you to think about what you are doing frees your brain up to focus on more complex tasks))

vapid jay Nov 5, 2019, 3:45 AM

#

So how do you “add/contribute code” to an open source project?

unborn crystal Nov 5, 2019, 3:51 AM

#

at a high level: get the code, make changes or add new things, and request that they add your work to their files

#

for a project on github it'd be: clone, make changes, submit pull request

#

there are other ways to contribute to FOSS besides code, too

kindred rock Nov 5, 2019, 5:12 AM

#

If I were to go for a career in Python would the best approach be to study as much as possible, and pick a framework/area and focus on that?

#

Without a cs degree, I didn't finish it fully

vast shoal Nov 5, 2019, 5:47 AM

#

How far did you get?

kindred rock Nov 5, 2019, 5:49 AM

#

2nd year

#

Of 3

vast shoal Nov 5, 2019, 5:54 AM

#

In general, I would say that it's better to have a broad knowledge base as an entry-level developer, rather than trying to specialize. That said, if you already have a decent grasp of the basics, acquiring solid understanding of a popular framework that's used in the industry doesn't hurt.

#

So like, go ahead and study a framework, but don't limit yourself to just that. Make sure that you're covering all the skills expected of a modern professional developer.

kindred rock Nov 5, 2019, 6:05 AM

#

Alright, thanks for the response. The plan is to expand my knowledge as much as possible in a broad range of topics. Are there any books you'd recommend? And do the Python docs cover everything you need to know?

vast shoal Nov 5, 2019, 6:06 AM

#

The Python docs cover Python, but a developer needs to know much more than just the language they're using.

#

They aren't necessarily ideal for learning concepts in the first place. I personally only use language docs as reference material.

#

If I want to learn something new, I read articles or books.

#

!resources

inner wrenBOT Nov 5, 2019, 6:09 AM

#

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

vast shoal Nov 5, 2019, 6:09 AM

#

^ There's a lot of material on here that's appropriate for both beginner and intermediate-level learners.

#

For learning general developer skills, I can recommend contributing to open source projects. You will get exposure to concepts like version control, CI/CD and code review, if you didn't already.

#

And the collaborative aspects of development, which is a necessity in pretty much any job.

#

It can also be a good credential, if you do it enough.

haughty lily Nov 5, 2019, 2:55 PM

#

Hello guys..
I wanted to change my feild , for sake of my parents i have chosen civil engineering but i have passion for computer science since my childhood now i have completed my bachelor's in civil engineering and had 2 years of experience in civil engineering but now i want to be data analyst and for that i have to start from scratch . so my query is that from where to start and how to become data analyst ? And also i want specific guidance about "python programming language python ." And also looking for someone who can guide me in data analytics . Thanking you :)

vast shoal Nov 5, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

You can start learning programming right here.

#

!resources

inner wrenBOT Nov 5, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

vast shoal Nov 5, 2019, 2:58 PM

#

We usually recommend the free online book https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ for complete beginners.

#

I can't personally advice you on data analytics in particular, as I'm a software engineer, but there should be enough overlap that you will benefit from knowing most software engineering principles.

#

There is a #data-science-and-ml channel here you could maybe ask around in.

haughty lily Nov 5, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

Yep sure :)

#

And thanks alot :)

vast shoal Nov 5, 2019, 3:03 PM

#

I'm under the impression https://www.kaggle.com/ is a good resource for data sciency type knowledge.

Kaggle: Your Home for Data Science

Download Open Datasets on 1000s of Projects + Share Projects on One Platform. Explore Popular Topics Like Government, Sports, Medicine, Fintech, Food, More. Flexible Data Ingestion.

#

No problem.

vapid spade Nov 5, 2019, 7:55 PM

#

anyone know about a career in computer science in the US military?

solar coral Nov 5, 2019, 8:04 PM

#

Cyber Operator heheBOI

#

https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/computers-and-technology/information-technology-specialist.html

goarmy.com

Information Technology Specialist Jobs (25B)

The Information Technology Specialist develops computer programs and maintains/troubleshoots military computer systems. Explore IT careers like this at goarmy.com.

#

https://www.goarmy.com/careers-and-jobs/browse-career-and-job-categories/computers-and-technology/multichannel-transmission-systems-operator-maintainer.html

goarmy.com

Multichannel Transmission Systems Operator-Maintainer (25Q)

The Multichannel Transmission Systems Operator-Maintainer is responsible for ensuring that multichannel equipment is functioning properly. Learn more at goarmy.com.

#

There are a wide variety of jobs in the US military for those who want to go into CS

#

however i doubt they will utilize python

mild zenith Nov 5, 2019, 8:07 PM

#

Depends on what aspect of it

#

IT might, as might some other aspects. But it'd really depend on the position rather than the military as a whole

tardy zephyr Nov 6, 2019, 1:32 AM

#

IS it possible to get a python related job without a degree? Every listing is REDICULOUS in requires "entry junior level" programmer jobs with "4 year bachelors, 4+ years work experience, etc etc etc" Should I ignore those requirements and apply anyways?

burnt tiger Nov 6, 2019, 1:55 AM

#

@tardy zephyr It highly depends on whether or not you have built up an extensive resume with some form of relevant prior experience. Most potential employers will end up ignoring the application otherwise. Have you had a number of meaningful projects that you've worked on that are presentable in some way (such as open source contributions) or an internship? Also, do you have any certifications or other formal training? Realistically speaking, you need some form of relevant experience.

hushed kestrel Nov 6, 2019, 2:02 AM

#

If you don't have a degree which is proof that you can stick to something and better yourself for a long time, you have the burden to prove why you are more worthy than someone with a degree (who you are competing with for the job). In the bay area what you do is work for startups where most people just can't handle due to the lack of structure. Other places you can get in through personal connections. Eitherway you'll need to practice and the biggest hurdle is getting your first job. After you get your first job getting every other job is going to be much much easier.

#

Some things people do is do freelance programming work to build up their resume (That's what I did ) Eitherway you'll need to prove yourself since the burden is on you

#

Also almost all job descriptions are made up and don't usually reflect the main responsibilities of a job. Don't take them that serious

#

I worked for AirBnb as an electrical engineer to build and prototype electronics. The actual job was being a CNC operator

burnt tiger Nov 6, 2019, 2:23 AM

#

@hushed kestrel

Some things people do is do freelance programming work to build up their resume (That's what I did )
Purely out of curiosity, was there a specific medium or platform from which you did your freelancing through? I've not personally had experience with doing that myself, but I've heard from others that the environment can be quite harsh (severely underpaid and sometimes unpaid) for those without significant prior experience and/or qualifications. It would be helpful to know of decent platforms for recommending to others that are interesting in freelance development.

hushed kestrel Nov 6, 2019, 2:39 AM

#

@burnt tiger That was completely my experience sorta. When I started using the platform I was able to make 300-400 a week which i imagine would go up to maybe 600-700 hundred after a few months of figuring out how to use the platform.

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There are a lot of hurdles doing freelance stuff TBH and it requires you to be very dedicated and work hard to make up for your short comings. Some people are built for it, some aren't.

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People on upwork can't really afford to do big projects or something, so that is just not a way to make money (if you are living in the united states) as much as it allows you to lose money less fast

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If I were to do it again i would go to companies locally, promote my services and get sales that way to work on multi thousand dollar projects instead of doing dozens of 100-400 $ projects

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Learning Client management + project management on top of learning programming might be too rough

mint citrus Nov 6, 2019, 3:14 AM

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I did freelance as well. but it was all local.

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never used upwork or the like

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pay was meh. but it was some extra change. I worked another parttime job for the steady income

gritty ivy Nov 6, 2019, 4:05 AM

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So I'm not necessarily only doing the internship for a better chance at a job in the future, even though it is a decent part of it, but:

How much would an internship at a technology repair workplace (I mainly have repaired phones up to this point but I have also built a custom built that a customer asked the shop to make) affect the decision of a company to hire me for a Software Development related position? Obviously it would depend on the person looking at the resume and their thoughts, but in general how much do you guys think it would affect your decision?

vapid jay Nov 6, 2019, 4:24 AM

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hi

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I think my sentence is too long.. could someone review this

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I'm listing it under a previous job role

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Managed data collection projects for GA, built ETL workflow to provide queryable interface and dashboards for business users and testing teams.

vapid jay Nov 6, 2019, 5:10 AM

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Needs Oxford comma

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where

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I'm not a native English speaker, could you suggest where to make the change

burnt tiger Nov 6, 2019, 6:16 AM

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@vapid jay Here's how I would change it: ```
Managed data collection projects for GA, constructed an ETL workflow to provide queryable interfaces and dashboards for business users.

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@vapid jay

Needs Oxford comma
I don't think an Oxford comma would be correct in this particular instance, since the "and" is not separating an actual listing of distinct items.

vapid jay Nov 6, 2019, 6:19 AM

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thank you:)

vast shoal Nov 6, 2019, 6:28 AM

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@gritty ivy Very little. It doesn't sound like relevant experience at all to me.

vapid jay Nov 6, 2019, 12:18 PM

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@burnt tiger dashboards reads separately to me whenever I look at it

burnt tiger Nov 6, 2019, 12:23 PM

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@vapid jay It flows a bit oddly, but I think the intention is for the "constructed an ETL workflow to provide queryable interfaces and dashboards for business users" to be a single section, as in an ETL process was used to provide the interfaces and dashboards for business users rather than "dashboards for business users" being it's own separate item.

vapid jay Nov 6, 2019, 12:24 PM

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Yeah I see what you mean

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Probably just the way the text is breaking on my screen

ruby zenith Nov 6, 2019, 1:24 PM

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I had a vague question on an first round interview I didn't really understand, and I am hoping someone could explain what they might be looking for.

"Where do you store your data?"

I am a junior data scientist applying for a junior data engineering job. I've studied Python and SQL and my answer is something along the lines,

"for my personal projects, I've kept my data and code on GitHub, and an external ssd. Although I have been migrating a majority of my work to an online IDEs so it's accessable wherever I need it."

I feel like I should be explaining why I'd use pandas or postgress over others. Is there any suggestions on what I could add if it comes up in a second round?

vapid jay Nov 6, 2019, 1:27 PM

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No

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it depends what data

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and what your field is

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as a DS your job doesn't involve DE aspects, but it's nice to know where to store your data depending on how frequently you access it and what method you use

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also depends on what format, and what you intend to do with it..

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https://towardsdatascience.com/guide-to-file-formats-for-machine-learning-columnar-training-inferencing-and-the-feature-store-2e0c3d18d4f9?gi=9d956b7c243c

Medium

Guide to File Formats for Machine Learning: Columnar, Training, In...

TLDR; Most machine learning models are trained using data from files. This post is a guide to the popular file formats used in open source…

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this covers the formats

ruby zenith Nov 6, 2019, 2:06 PM

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Thanks a bunch. Glad I thought to ask you guys.

light summit Nov 6, 2019, 7:15 PM

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Hey fellow nerds! Is the Datacamp "Data Scientist for Python" a decent course? (for those who have taken it, or looked at it)

sinful solstice Nov 6, 2019, 7:48 PM

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Datacamp courses are usually good

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I suggest making a jupyter notebook and writing everything you do down

jovial hull Nov 6, 2019, 9:05 PM

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I need some help with my resume. I have no idea what title I should be putting on things because I have not ever really had well defined roles.
First job in question I designed the product, designed and headed the technical integrations and technology used to make the thing run. Made decisions about things ranging from artwork and web design all the way to the pricing. Then I did 100% of the coding for the first 6 months until the project was stood up and running and then about 80% of the coding after that when I started the initial customer contacts/sales process.

static quartz Nov 6, 2019, 10:27 PM

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Sooo I have a question about how much I should charge for a freelance project I'm working on for a small business. Is this a good place to ask or am I in the wrong chat?

analog oxide Nov 6, 2019, 10:36 PM

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If anyone knows a resource for the kinds of python tests you might encounter in an interview, I would be greatly appreciative. I remember one that I took that was beyond my current skills involving matrixes of arrays, so something fairly complicated would be appreciated. I'd be willing to pay a subscription cost if it's behind a paywall like that.

gilded valley Nov 6, 2019, 10:37 PM

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Leetcode, HackerRank, Kattis, Codewars, CodeSignal, and others all have problems of the style you might find in interviews

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they all have advantages and disadvantages

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If you just want to jump in, my suggestion would be CodeSignal

analog oxide Nov 6, 2019, 10:39 PM

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Thank you so much!

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(I am checking out Codewars right now it's very cool)

gilded valley Nov 6, 2019, 10:40 PM

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Codewars has a lot of problems, and a lot that are beginner friendly, but it doesn't necessarily have the best user experience.

analog oxide Nov 6, 2019, 10:40 PM

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Aw that's too bad

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But I will check out all of them

gilded valley Nov 6, 2019, 10:41 PM

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Just give it a shot though, if you think its fine just stick with it. The most important thing is actually practicing, less so where youre practicing

broken oar Nov 7, 2019, 2:03 AM

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Does anyone have advice for getting a job as a site reliability engineer?

vapid jay Nov 7, 2019, 2:08 AM

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apply to them

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whats your background?

hollow osprey Nov 7, 2019, 2:08 AM

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Hello, I am completely new to learning python. I was curious if there is a career in python within the BCI research field without having a degree in neurology

vapid jay Nov 7, 2019, 2:08 AM

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I think entry level SRE the best thing to know is some system administration, some scripting

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probably a reasonably strong understanding of servers

hollow osprey Nov 7, 2019, 2:09 AM

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for BCI research?

vapid jay Nov 7, 2019, 2:09 AM

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no

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for kuulie

hollow osprey Nov 7, 2019, 2:10 AM

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oh my bad 😄

vapid jay Nov 7, 2019, 2:10 AM

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you might have better luck asking that in a data science or machine learning chat

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or AI

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thats what it is right?

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its a little different I guess

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thats a very specific question though

hollow osprey Nov 7, 2019, 2:11 AM

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Ok, I will try this! I'm just struggling with what I'd like to do as a career change with Python

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Could someone give me a broad overview of careers in python? I know there is front end, back end, and software developer. Are there any other broad routes?

frank valley Nov 7, 2019, 2:15 AM

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does answering questions/being active on stack overflow help in any way with getting a job? I find many senior developers include their stack overflow profile in their resume

vapid jay Nov 7, 2019, 2:40 AM

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@hollow osprey if you don't have a degree in neurology or don't have advanced programming skills.. you're limited to UX and HMI roles..

hollow osprey Nov 7, 2019, 2:41 AM

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what is an HMI role? I know UX is user experience

light summit Nov 7, 2019, 3:01 AM

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What's the best way to have an online portfolio for Python projects? I'm new to Python, but am exploring using it for datascience - I've been recommended Jupyter, but I'm unsure exactly what it does? - I guess it can publicly display code while also being sort of like a blog post?

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@hollow osprey I'm looking at Business Analyst roles at technology companies - that's why Python and SQL are of interest to me - I would just do a search on Indeed.com with the keyword "python" and see what comes up

hollow osprey Nov 7, 2019, 3:03 AM

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@light summit thanks!

broken oar Nov 7, 2019, 3:04 AM

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my background is helpdesk lvl 1

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learning python rn

hollow osprey Nov 7, 2019, 3:05 AM

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how'd you get the job? That's awesome man.

vapid jay Nov 7, 2019, 3:20 AM

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human machine interaction..

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basically a lot goes into designing apps and adding new features.. this kind of role is relatively new and focuses on user experience.. so you get to work closely with engineering teams who build the app

hollow osprey Nov 7, 2019, 3:22 AM

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That's interesting!

granite merlin Nov 7, 2019, 8:45 AM

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I dropped out uni it was useless I want to learn coding from scratch. I seek advice from professionals. That is why I am here

mint citrus Nov 7, 2019, 8:47 AM

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go back to uni

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if you drop out of uni, how can you be motivated enough to self teach yourself?

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many people get things wrong with uni. its not there to land you a job or get you a high paying job.

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its there to guide you in academics. it is upon you to take the knowledge and expand on it on your own time. so basically self teach with a guide that you can ask for help

stable salmon Nov 7, 2019, 10:04 AM

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I am an engineering student in India pursuing Computer Science. I am in 3rd sem right now. I started learning python 2 months back and almost completed the course on Coursera. Next i wanted to do DS and algorithms but then i came to know that most companies do not accept DS algo in python. Now i will have to learn Java. This is disheartening. I feel all the python i learned is just wasted. What can i do next with python to get a good job? Ty

vast shoal Nov 7, 2019, 10:07 AM

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Data structures and algorithms aren't language-specific. You can reuse that knowledge in any language.

gilded valley Nov 7, 2019, 10:08 AM

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I'm not sure what you mean there. Everywhere I've seen is fine with your doing their dsa tests on python

burnt tiger Nov 7, 2019, 10:18 AM

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@stable salmon

i came to know that most companies do not accept DS algo in python
Pretty much every single programming interview scenario involves psuedocode, so the actual language used is irrelevant. It's entirely about the concepts.

Now i will have to learn Java. This is disheartening. I feel all the python i learned is just wasted.
Not to sound harsh, but if during your time learning Python you only learned concepts that were specific to Python, you must not have learned much.

sinful solstice Nov 7, 2019, 10:20 AM

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I have been studying data science for about a year. I didn't have any prior coding experience. Now I am very comfortable and advanced with data wrangling and visualization. I am also very comfortable with ML algorithms and manipulation. The areas I am weak at are SQL, NLP, Deep Learning and Apache systems. Which one would you guys suggest I tackle first. Which one carries the most importance in interviews?

burnt tiger Nov 7, 2019, 10:21 AM

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I'd say SQL is probably the most widely applicable of the areas that you mentioned. You don't have to be absurdly proficient, but having a strong grasp of the fundamentals is important

sinful solstice Nov 7, 2019, 10:22 AM

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So just getting a basic understanding and being able to pull, wrangle data in a SQL setting is enough? I am not looking for a data engineer role I might add.

burnt tiger Nov 7, 2019, 10:25 AM

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Personally, I'm not aware of the SQL expectations for a data science position, but if you can write intermediate-level aggregate queries and can use subqueries to a basic degree you're probably good enough. It's mostly about being able to find what you're looking for rather than being able to write the queries as efficiently as possible.

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(at least if you aren't a back-end dev, DBA, or data engineer)

reef marsh Nov 7, 2019, 10:26 AM

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Be able to do CRUD operation on a sql database is important at any stage of programming, so picking up SQL is not a bad idea

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More often than not you have software that does more complex stuff for you, still, knowing the basics should suffice

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For example changing index of a table can increase query time and execution speed by 200 times - so yes, pick it up

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NLP, Deep learning and Apache systerms are more specialized for more specific needs

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You can pick them up in any given order, depending on what fields you want to

sinful solstice Nov 7, 2019, 10:28 AM

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I understand, thanks for the input. So basically I have to be able to replicate what I can do in Pandas in SQL. Maybe not as advanced but enough to get me going.

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The jobs these days have so much requirements. They want all these skills in a data scientist. It's overwhelming.

reef marsh Nov 7, 2019, 10:28 AM

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Most of the time being able to interact with a SQL database will get you going really well

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Considering about 30-40% of a data scientist's time is probably coding / preparing data and such, I can see the requirements getting higher

burnt tiger Nov 7, 2019, 10:30 AM

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I'd say focus more on practical projects that might be similar to what you'd do in a work environment rather than checking off requirements, that can easily become a neverending and unfulfilling chase.

sinful solstice Nov 7, 2019, 10:31 AM

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Thanks for clearing some questions I had in my mind.

vast shoal Nov 7, 2019, 11:22 AM

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@sinful solstice I'm not an expert by any means, but I get the impression that it's going to be pretty difficult to get a "data science only" job with no data engineering if you don't have a higher level academic degree in the subject.

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So if you want to get into the field and work your way up, it's probably not a bad idea to learn technical skills.

brisk wedge Nov 7, 2019, 12:16 PM

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how saturated are computer science/engineering majors in the job market rn

hardy ferry Nov 7, 2019, 12:30 PM

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Depends where you are from and what your specialization is.
In Germany some of the bigger tech companies stopped hiring and only accept external people (consulting firms). In some branches there are some restructuring going on (e.g. automotive) and people are fearing a crisis is coming which has effects on other branches.

mild zenith Nov 7, 2019, 4:25 PM

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@vapid jay We don't allow advertisement for paid gigs here. We're all more than willing to help when people have problems they're stuck on, but we're not a jobs board

vapid jay Nov 7, 2019, 4:32 PM

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boooo

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-.-

ionic totem Nov 7, 2019, 4:57 PM

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im still a highschooler, i dont learn python at school ,we just mingle with c++.but ive been working on small personal projects in python for a bout a year

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im thinking to do some python and c++ courses later, but im curious, how much would one need to know for a job

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by how much i mean what structures and patterns would one need to know, would be very helpfull if somebody who works in it would asnwer this , talkign from his experience

sinful solstice Nov 7, 2019, 5:58 PM

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Anybody got any tips to get profile approved on upwork?

vapid jay Nov 7, 2019, 5:59 PM

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I have got to ask but has anyone actually got any meaningful cash from working there?

sinful solstice Nov 7, 2019, 6:00 PM

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@vapid jay No clue, doesn't hurt to try. I checked available jobs and there are some good paying gigs.

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I can

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I can't get approved though.

grim spade Nov 7, 2019, 9:23 PM

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as a highschooler, i suggest to other highschoolers to not look for a job in python but rather apply python at work when possible

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seems like common sense but many people forget

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i got a job over the summer at an architectural firm, surprising amount of software being used there

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they used python for programming ras-pi's that would act as data collectors in a building

vapid jay Nov 8, 2019, 12:16 AM

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that's how I landed my first job.. worked on a high profile lawsuit at a shipping company.. implemented some stuff to run fairly efficiently and helped them get rid of spreadsheets.. vp was so impressed they offered a job

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just goes to show, you don't have to know everything.. just solve problems

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@indigo sleet posted this.. then it all made sense

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https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/

grim spade Nov 8, 2019, 12:27 AM

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finger_gun agree wholeheartedly with that article

burnt tiger Nov 8, 2019, 8:25 AM

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@ionic totem

im thinking to do some python and c++ courses later, but im curious, how much would one need to know for a job
I recommend focusing less on how much you need to know, and more on building practical experience. This can be done through personal projects, contributing to open source, internships, etc. The internships will likely not be an option in high school, but the other two certainly are.

by how much i mean what structures and patterns would one need to know,
There's not a specific set of data structures and algorithms to know, it's more about knowing which ones to use for different situations, which comes from experience. I would recommend being intimately familiar with the topics covered in https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html, and building practical experience using Python.

neon needle Nov 8, 2019, 12:51 PM

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if you take the initiative and reach out to places around where you are (this helps if u live near a populated city) that do internships i bet you could get one unpaid obviously pretty easily

also go to your guidance counselor and ask them about it if you have a non braindead one they probably can help

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dont wait for it to fall in your lap go be active and grab it if you really want to do it

clear sleet Nov 8, 2019, 4:32 PM

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can you get a full time job working with just networking in python?

vapid jay Nov 8, 2019, 5:44 PM

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Kind of same question, but is it possible to get employment by python? And what branches (if u understand) are the best, most reliable or most paid?'

clear sleet Nov 8, 2019, 6:07 PM

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Also, is it possible to get a job using only python?

sinful solstice Nov 8, 2019, 7:37 PM

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Is being able to do basic queries in SQL enough for a data scientist? I have studied up until joins. Do you think it would be enough or I should I learn more methods.

rare sand Nov 8, 2019, 8:12 PM

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@vapid jay @clear sleet I have held multiple jobs that were 90% Python. these were web-related with Python as the backend. Some knowledge of JS, HTML and CSS is useful if you go down this road, as well as databases, servers, and other web-related tech knowledge.

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but every developer needs to be open to learning new stuff. Python can often be a major part of the stack, but it's practically never the entire stack.

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and, frankly, people don't tend to look for good Python developers, they look for good developers. languages can always be learned.

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what languages you prefer is secondary

sly violet Nov 8, 2019, 9:43 PM

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Hey can someone guide me as to where I might be able to find a freelance python programmer to make a bunch of tools for me? Thanks

tawny pewter Nov 8, 2019, 10:45 PM

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what kind of tools?

vapid jay Nov 9, 2019, 1:39 AM

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@clear sleet @vapid jay My job is 100% python

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Literally no other programming language

vapid jay Nov 9, 2019, 2:08 AM

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What job?

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I work in test automation as a software engineer building python libraries for our R&D

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Our whole R&D is python so that is what I get to program in

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Or like 90% python but my job is pure python

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👌

vapid jay Nov 9, 2019, 5:50 AM

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do you need tertiary education to be a good virtual internship candidate?