Yeahh
#career-advice
turbid prism
marsh wind
what kind of position he goy?
marsh wind
what is SWE? I think I can make that it's Software W Engineer, but what's W?
marsh wind
I think links are allowed btw
turbid prism
marsh wind
aspiring data scientist 😉
turbid prism
Im an aspiring data scientist / engineer tooo
But SWE isnt bad
Only thing about data science is they want masters or higher
marsh wind
usually yeah
marsh wind
that's cool, so you are getting relevan exp
fading gull
What kind of projects would you recommend to add in my cv and make myself more employable ?
turbid prism
uhh
anything
if u wanna get employed get ur algorithms game at 110%
lol
u can have multiple of cool projects but if u cant some a 3sum problem, theyre not gonna hire you
keen lance
@turbid prism I can work with you on leetcode problems
I've already done several and some 100+ on codesignal
keen lance
Ideally, create a group and discuss there
turbid prism
no no
we can set a time
thats good for us
maybe weekend
Then... you can pretend to be an interviewer and u can ask me leetcode problems to solve
and I'll go through my solution
then if im having a hard time u can help me, then ill do the same for you if you want
versed dawn
So I'm interested in going to a bootcamp. Anyone here have any advice? Do they really get you job ready in 3 months?
golden eagle
kinda depends what job you want
and obviously every education provider is different
I'm doing a bootcamp at the moment, although it's probably a bit different since it's in Australia and a 10 month duration, but I feel at the end of my course I'll be job ready for sure
I'm doing a 3 day a week variation, but there is a 5 days a week one that only goes for 6 months, not really sure how to answer your question but feel free to ask more @versed dawn
advice is be familiar with the OS you're going to use I guess, although I swapped from WSL to Linux halfway through and haven't had too much problems.
If you're not already, get familiar with Linux
vast shoal
@versed dawn I'm very skeptical that they'd be able to get you to a decent level in 3 months.
Sounds like a sales tactic.
I'd be wary of hiring anybody with less than 3 years experience (either in education, work experience or active self-learning).
That's not to say that it's not doable, but even in the most extreme cases I think at least a year is to be expected.
torpid bolt
well, people got to start somewhere, and you always need to learn on the job anyway, but yeah, i wouldn't expect too much from somebody who has been learning for just 3 months, unless they have a background that prepared them well for that (math, engineering, for example), they are not going to be very productice at first.
turbid prism
You can always learn those kinda things on your own
U just need to dedicate urself and practice practice practice
No one becomes a good programmer overnight
teal forge
guys how to land my first freelancing job and how good should I be to do so?
broken estuary
can someone please help me with an assignment
im lost using newtons method
raven mica
I'm sure there are plenty who can answer better than I, but my understanding is that freelancing can be tough. Not impossible, but there are so many people who want to do it (likely for cheaper than you want to do it), that it's tough to break into. I know a guy who does freelance webdev IRL - it's definitely possible - but his business is sustained almost solely by repeat/ongoing work and word of mouth referrals. And even then he's often battling the "why should I pay you X when someone else can do this for 0.25X" mentality. If it were me, I'd start by offering free work to local nonprofits. This will allow you to figure out customer needs and interactions. @teal forge
raven mica
@teal forge for sure! Just to be clarify, if freelancing is 100% what you want outta life, and you're willing to spend the time and effort to make that sustainable, by all means go for it. On the other hand, if you're hoping it'll be some relatively easy side money, I'd say your efforts would be better spent elsewhere 👊
raven mica
"just to be clarify" 🤦♂️ least clear or clarified way to say that hahaha
teal forge
hahaha :'D @raven mica
torpid bolt
It's easier to freelance after you have done conventional jobs, where you get to know the industry, potential clients, other devs that can refer you clients for work they know you can do. I don't freelance myself (or just on the side, when opportunities arise), but networking is very important, unless you want to compete on platforms, but you are going to compete for very low prices, it's better to have clients that come to you specificaly.
I'd be careful with free work for nonprofits, these will mostly bring more work with no payment possibilities, and will be a maintenance burden, only do that if you can afford to do that for a long time and see defined networking possibilities from them.
at some point, you might be unable to keep offering free work to these people, and you might feel guilty about it (despite the fact that you offered them a lot of value already), and they might feel betrayed if they don't have a way to go forward without you, despite the fact that you did your best just to help them, so be careful about that, and if you do so, always make sure you can get out of it at any time, and they can go forward.
fathom patrol
how likely would it be for me to get a job at a FAANG with no CS degree, no projects or weak projects, but full time dedication on DS+A. I feel like getting the interview will be hard. I live in California btw so I assume a lot of companies will use LeetCode here. If not FAANG, what about getting interviews from non FAANG companies?
gilded valley
Part of at least Google's interview process is a technical-non-algorithm interview - I think its like system archicteture stuff - so you'd need to be able to do that as well
also, its not necessarily easy to get the interview
fathom patrol
yeah one of my friends has an interview with Google some time during October. If he gets in, I could probably ask him for a recruiter's email and email them that way
and by the "system architecture" you mean system design right?
like design instagram etc
cloud trail
How can I figure out my niche in programming? I like web scraping, for example, but I'm not sure I could really deliver value to people by just web scraping alone.
vast shoal
@cloud trail Work on different types of projects, and see what you enjoy doing.
lavish comet
about how much experience do I need to get a junior position?
umbral portal
cloud trail
^^
Joshua Fluke says you should also apply to mid level roles if you feel you can do the tasks required
dreamy iris
Hey, does anyone know where's a good place to get started with contributing to Open source python projects?
pulsar drum
There are some sites which aggregate issues on repositories
But you can go on GitHub, GitLab, Bitbucket, etc and look for issues yourself
You can look at repos for things you already use or you could search for repos that may interest you using certain tags
You can try to look at the labels on issues to see which ones are more beginner friendly
However, not all projects bother to add such labels
mystic summit
so I've got an unexpected "promotion"/teams change
I was told I was to stay in my previous team until date to be defined but I've got a mail from someone uh, I guess higher up than my prev boss, telling me I was to be changed teams starting today
great! I'll be doing linux! V nice! I'm just v afraid I won't be up to the task and make a fool of myself
what can I do? Besides working hard, which ofc I will do
vapid jay
Hello, im new to py give me so ideas
vast shoal
@dreamy iris Additionally, there is this upcoming event: https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/ which happens to focus on facilitating open source contributions by new contributors of all skill levels. As you can see in the #announcements channel, this server is participating as well, and there will soon be an announcement with more information about how you can participate. But there are many other OSS projects that also take part, so you can look in the link or google for Hacktoberfest 2019.
@mystic summit Try to be proactive in learning. Take notes of the kinds of terms and systems and applications you're exposed to and study them in-depth in your spare time. If people teach you procedures to accomplish routine tasks (logging in, running systems, tests, loading data, whatever) write down how to do it and look at your notes if you forget. Aim for never having to ask twice about the same thing. Try to absorb as much as possible in the beginning and get to the point where you feel like you understand how everything works and what the purpose of the business side and the technical side is. Once you do, start trying to be innovative and look for ways to improve how things are done. Can you automate something? Could the business benefit from using a new technology, to replace an outdated workflow? Etc. That part is not easy, and not something you should worry too much about in the short term, but the point is not to get too comfortable. Try to always feel like you're learning something new on the job, and you'll be on the right track.
@vapid jay Ideas about what?
mystic summit
@vast shoal aye aye! Thanksies 😄
vast shoal
@dreamy iris Our announcement came up, check #announcements
analog turtle
has anyone here ever used one of those freelancing sites like upwork
looking for opinions/experiences
vapid jay
does somebody know a c++ project idea for beggineer?
gilded valley
In the pinned messages of #python-discussion theres a lot of ideas that could feasibly be implemented in c++
rigid spruce
@analog turtle I used it for few weeks, competition is deadly and it's almost impossible to start working. The one or 2 jobs I got were scams.
analog turtle
ah thats too bad
ive heard its also a race to the bottom with cost
id rather leave the industry altogether and work on projects in my spare time, than work for peanuts
rigid spruce
Imo you can find jobs in other sources if you search hard. I mean I had more luck and earned more money by using discord than Upwork, Freelancer and Fiver combined
I'm sure you can get a good income on those sites.. once you establish a reputation. But good luck with that, no other way but to undersell yourself and even then it's a long shoot.
vapid jay
Well you can start doing projects in the languages/tools you're learning to create a portfolio. Then you can apply for a job idk
marsh wind
had more luck and earned more money by using discord
@rigid spruce that's intersting.... could you elaborate?
rigid spruce
there are guilds for freelancing and you can find people to tutor etc
near oriole
New Text Channel Request: How about a text channel for interview questions of the day? One can post a coding problem and one's solution and invite critiques. How do I bring this to the attention of someone with the right permissions?
rigid spruce
try by posting it in #community-meta as that channel is for suggestions @near oriole
after that it's done, just need to wait.
near oriole
I did, but I think it's already buried in the comments.
thin light
Hold up, so i've been reading a bit and most of the messages are about how to join google, face book or other big tech companies. is it not a feasible idea to work for a smaller company?
perhaps one that isnt listed in the DAW or the S&P, for example
vapid jay
It is feasible
It's the Internet those people have most likely no clue what they are even talking about
sacred pike
I want to get a job in Python, but I don't think it will ever pay what I'm used to as a Senior Frontend Dev
Trying to figure out what I could do
mint citrus
yeet to another country that need python devs
vast shoal
@thin light It's absolutely feasible to work for a smaller company. I guess the main reason people want to work for FAANG companies is that they can pay really well, and it looks very good on your resume.
vapid jay
But the stress you have to deal with is bigge probably. Working in small companies allows you to work in different areas of the business, from development to marketing and you can learn a lot from it. When I started working as a technician in a small company, that happened to me.
gilded valley
Small companies, mostly just "*tech startups", generally expect more work for lower pay compared to corporates
mint citrus
that is really true
marsh wind
but those are probably easier to get in than in FAANG companies
and for someone with little to no experiece FAANG are probably next to impossible
thin light
Wait, so big companies = a lot of stress and small companies = more work and lower pay..? I am ot getting it, sounds the same amount of work but you just get paid less
gilded valley
No. Small companies= high stress, low pay
Big companies = low stress, high pay
Obviously a lot of exceptions
vast shoal
It can be like that, but it's not a rule, no.
Also, a small company can mean more freedom, flexibility and variety in the tasks you get.
A big company can have more bureaucracy and processes that have to be followed.
karmic spear
Plus you get more responsibilities and in close communications with different departments if you are in the small company
not to mention that you see your personal impact on business and company
while that is almost impossible to do in large companies
I would stick to a smaller companies as long as I can, but I guess at some point you will prefer to have stability in exchange for all that.
E.g if you have a mortgage to pay or kids
vast shoal
There are medium-sized companies where you can get a bit of the best of both worlds.
I worked for a company in the 200-300 person range for 5 years and that felt both stable and as if I had quite a bit of personal impact.
mint citrus
Or you can go to a third world country where tech is a bit behind. Tho pay isn't that high compared to other countries. But in the country you get paid pretty well
And you get quite a lot of experience because they expect you to do more and know more because you are foreigner
thin light
Hm, not a bad idea but you'd have a lot of challenges when you move to a diff country. Let say you're an average white dude in taxes and wanna move to south Africa for a job. Well thatd be quite tough cause you need to learn the language adapt to the climate, living conditions and other factors.
mint citrus
well in tech its mostly all english. Ive moved twice to different countries and we only ever speak english.
altho where I am now its a bit challenging as my coworkers english isnt that great but we are able to understand each other.
thin light
How about outside of work? You dont have trouble talking to locals?
mint citrus
tbh I dont really talk much to locals. you learn a bit to be able to get around but mostly you would talk to people from work or other expats
thin light
Interesting. What country are you working at again?
mint citrus
currently im doing neither. just me and my GF
currently im in Thailand
last year I was in Germany for 3 years. I did however speak the language.
before that I was in the US (where I grew up)
thin light
So you were able to speak German in the 3 years of stay?
mint citrus
oh and im not digital nomad guy. I legit was employed in a company in the country
I kinda grew up speaking German... so I guess it doesnt really count
but I rarely spoke German as my coworkers were all not German speaking and could barely speak it.
two were from Ukraine and one from France
thin light
Quite the mix
mint citrus
yeah it def was. Its always a mix in other countries for Tech
thin light
Why would people from say, france wanna come work at Germany tho? Is it hard for them to find a job in their home country too?
mint citrus
normaly the story is they are traveling and some how got with some guys and stayed
next thing you know you are employed in the country and live there
#dontgoitsatrap
for me however i just wanted to get out of the my state. jobs for my field were just terrible. So took a flight to Germany, spent 4 months looking for work, and then settled in until it became impossible to find my own apartment so i skipped town to thailand
thin light
You spent 4 monthes looking for a job? Sounds like you had savings to back you up.
mint citrus
of course I did. I was actually still working for the US startup remotely.
so i was still safe
thin light
Yeah cause when you look at the amount of people in debt in the states, its horrifying
mint citrus
it really is. especially after uni.
im so glad I worked during uni instead of taking a loan.
I recommend it to everyone
thin light
Ah so you avoided a hole
mint citrus
yeppers. uni was utter shit because of it tho.
weekdays = attend class and work til midnight.
weekends = study and freelance jobs
repeat
thin light
So u did that instead of getting piss drunk
mint citrus
yeah man. I made up for the getting drunk by living in Berlin
thin light
LOL
mint citrus
thin light
So what kind of work kept you till mid night? Flipping burgers at a night shift?
mint citrus
nah man. they wouldnt hire me
worked at the uni as IT manager for a department. and did freelance stuff on the side.
the uni was replacing all professionals with students cause they can pay student lower salary.
usually the freelance stuff kept me up until midnight.
thin light
All that and you're still flat broke when you got out?
thin light
That's a lil higher then the min wage
mint citrus
when I graduated they offered me a position for 20k
thin light
Wow
mint citrus
that was a def NO
ikr
yeah and the freelance i just did small sites
like $500 a pop
thin light
Not too bad
mint citrus
I didnt go high on it because i knew i would prob be doing shit work and get a bad rep if I charged too much
on top of that I had my 4 courses which I had to study for. so did not expect to do well on the freelance stuff
there was a big one but I dropped it. was gonna get me about 1.5k and was turning a coldfusion site into a full ecommerce.
but after a few weeks I told my client im backing out.
thin light
Now that raises a big question, did you get more practicle and applicable experience from working during uni or going to class during uni?
mint citrus
working obv. uni was really a big waste of time except for like 3 courses
algo, software engineering, and microcontrollers
thin light
Only 3? Well f**k then you'd be better off investing the amount of tuition you paid into stocks or a buissness and just work your ass off huh.
mint citrus
I think it kinda depends on the university tho.
my university was kinda bad. really it was all incest there. you had teachers who graduated from the uni they teach at
so they never really had experience and they just regurgitate from a textbook
really one should always do your own discovery alongside your studies
its not all garbage they give you. I just feel I could have learned just as well as sitting at home with a textbook
thin light
Well, firstof all, incest means something entirely different here in Alabama and fk, if they just teach iff a text book why am I spendin' 10k a fking year there? $10k, that's a lot of pizzas and beer.
mint citrus
ikr
rigid spruce
you overestimate universities lmao
mint citrus
everyone has a different experience tho.
I think mine was exceptionally bad
Ive had a good few teachers there that actually had experience and knew how to teach.
oh like the database class. he was good. had experience and taught us how databases are actually made instead of just the SQL. like we had to build our own database as a project for the course
thin light
Well if we look at it from a fiancial perspective, if getting that piece of paper doesn't always garentee me practicle skills, I wont invest. At least if I buy like, 600 pizzas and 400 cases of beer, I'd garenttee that I'd be fat as a whale.
mint citrus
well the piece of paper garentees easier road to higher paychecks
but it only works when you actually know your stuff too
rigid spruce
skills, not much.. connections and a paper that opens doors, yes
mint citrus
it really is all about connections.
I got a lot of job offers in my state but they pay and the tasks were all shit
gotta have the right connections as well
thin light
Well if you started small freelancing for like a year and start taking bigger jobs as time moves on, wont you build more crediability and resume then being at uni? You'd no doubt make connections on the way too. Except you can buy 600 pizzas and 400 cases of beer while doing it.
mint citrus
well yeah. many have done that. but they usually start at a younger age and are doing quality work by end of highschool
which was not me lol. I started at like 21
thin light
Well, better late then never
mint citrus
yeah
thin light
You do have catching up to do but at least you get to have the pizzas and the beer. Oh and you'd be making money instead of making money to fill a hole.
mint citrus
true
I still would recommend uni for the majority tho. But you have to do both. uni and an internship
rigid spruce
just be carefull as uni is a lot of stress, sometimes unecesarry
thin light
Yeah coding was originally a side thing i wanted to do but I found out that I feel like pointing a 44 to my own head and pulling the trigger more times then I should while learning to code and looking at the ide.
I dont know how you do it but I prob cant make it through the whole process with out brain damage or short circuit
mint citrus
Im starting to feel that way. kinda want to go into management. thinking product manager or something
thin light
LOL I am not alone!!
mint citrus
or devops has taken my interest as well. more just putting shit together and not so much actual code grinding
this is after like 7-8 years of programming tho
thin light
Yeah.. anything but code grinding. I'd rather stand in the sun for 7 or 8 years then code
mint citrus
Programming can be interesting and it still really is. It really depends on what you work on. For me I like to work on one thing (or related things to a larger whole) and constantly improve on it. Doing client work is really not satisfying as you end up just repeating yourself the whole time and not really improving on your own skills. They all just want that great website for their great ecommerce.
thin light
And lemme guess, most if those websites lose money and close buisness?
mint citrus
not really. sometimes their business is good enough that it doesnt go down. the site just might not really improve things.
maiden hare
Do you guys know where to find python internships?
maiden hare
I'm in high school
mint citrus
huh. I guess you could look online. Im not sure about internships for highschool. I know they do exist tho.
maiden hare
is it possible for me to go to a uni just to ask that type of question
mint citrus
not really. they usually keep log of who asks and you need like a student ID for that. at least thats how it was at my uni
maiden hare
are you working or in a uni right now?
maiden hare
What do you do to get your first career experience
mint citrus
internships
or do some small projects for free for people you know
personal projects on github as well
contributing to open source things etc
maiden hare
And that all can go to the resume?
mint citrus
yeah
if you have no work experience you can put that
of course work experience has much more weight
you will have to start small.
maiden hare
Does internship count as work experience?
mint citrus
yes it does
maiden hare
How do you start on peojects
wanton torrent
LF Job
mint citrus
whats LF job?
vernal echo
what is the most common area of programming for a career with python?
I don't mean the whole career with python but starting out
for example data science, etc.
craggy wraith
ML/AI
Data Analyst
Data Scientist
vast shoal
And backend web development.
karmic spear
not to forget newly formed cloud developer or serverless developer
which is pretty much the same as backend web
marsh wind
@thin light for EU it's basically an open job market for everyone with citizenship. So ppl in tech can move around easily if they don't have strong ties like a house and a family
For seasoned professionals they probably can be headhuntee by recruiters, and those without much exp just look everywhere
mighty matrix
@maiden hare how well do you know python?
vapid jay
@real sierra is it possible for you to work in another country? Working on your own seems a lot better tbh
real sierra
nope it is not, I have uni to finish
i moved to weekend uni study plan to find job
in the end I didn't really find job and I'm in the same hole as before to be honest
maybe after I finish uni I'm gonna apply for job in different coutries but right now it's absolutely shit, I both tried websites with job offers and messaging companies by myself
like seriously its shit
and I am sure i'm not lacking or even if I lack knowledge/skills it's more about polishing what I have than doing something absolutely differently since I always check a few sources before making decisions how to implement something
vapid jay
I hope you get a job that you enjoy. The good part of the EU is that you can work anywhere inside of it
mint citrus
Work in your own country first, then go to another country
Unless you in the EU then it probably doesn't matter
maiden hare
@mighty matrix I spent my time on solving online problems and I started working on familiarizing myself with Python modules
Mostly codingame and codinwar
mystic summit
ugh I'm studying rhel134 and I feel like I'm not learning a thing
I take notes, do the examples and guided exercises, but I feel like I haven't learnt a thing
mystic summit
🤷 can't really
opal perch
I mean the best tip will be go to the local university and ask, how old are you if I'm allowed to ask? and what qualifications do you have
because part of doing research is being able to write the reports etc, there is a reason pretty much only people with PhD's do research.
@vapid jay
Yea then university is definitely the best place to ask
or you could get a job at a research facility where you can do your master thesis
also look out for internships aimed at masters students, they are usually there to let you do your thesis with the company
thin light
shot thru the heart, and you're to blame,
woeful spruce
I'm a cowboy, on a steel horse I ride....
vapid jay
Standing on the ledge, showin the wind how to fly
small folio
how do I should start my career without a degree?
small folio
Im in highschool, cant afford university
shy pollen
Not many people can 😓
Internship or apprentiship is the best way to go
But don't do an internship if you are at adult working age (usually)
gilded valley
Pretty much everyone in Europe can. Most people in the US can afford community college
The only reason tech companies ever do internships is so they can cash in on the governments apprenticeship levy
small folio
Im finishing highschool this year and I am in brazil
indigo sigil
Hey guys, this channel has been really near and dear to me as I really looked to this discord when I took my first Python class. I'm looking for an internship right now and was wondering if anyone could look over my resume?
I would appreciate it so much!
I prefer blunt points, like if something is bad, just point it out
mortal walrus
A well put together resume, quite accomplished for the time you've put in during your academic career. Any sound business would be lucky to have you. If I had to provide any constructive feedback I would say a synopsis of you and your overall mission might be worth integrating.
raven mica
@indigo sigil looks really good! Check that "Mancala" line - seems to be missing a word - "...popular Board Game using, plays against..."
I'd also clean up the capitalization in general. Capitalization is for proper nouns, which has specific rules.
candid timber
hmm I do technical interviews and pretty much ignore resumes unless it's borderline and I'm looking for a reason to keep/reject
yours looks good btw
neon cloak
vapid jay
What are the easy ways of workig freelance python developer. It is hard to find jobs in platforms like freelancer if you dont have previous ratings. I have a decent github and some open source contributions but no one cares on that platforms. Any suggestion?
woeful spruce
wish I could hire him in my department haha
holy cow 3.92 GPA at UCLA, that is impressive
vapid jay
@indigo sigil What is custom push notifications?
Mancala My take on the popular Board Game using, - Was that supposed to end?
DiffCreator - Isn't this the same as http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/diff.1.html ?
Also curious about the Experienced with section - as it doesn't indicate how experienced, or years of experience.
But those are my critiques 😄
quick escarp
anyone working in bioinformatics here able to answer some overall questions?
sullen gate
unkempt cloud
Would it be a bad idea to try and apply to a Code Ninjas location? I like programming, I need a job, and it would look very nice on a resume to have a history at some place like this - but I don't think I would do well with kids, education etc... I could probably do very well trying to find suitable problems, coming up with cool stuff, solving problems... but the point of the entire place is to teach kids. I know one can get a job here at my age and experience level, because I found a student in my CS class who work(s/ed) there, and he's not exactly the most advanced CS Student, not 30 projects under his belt or something, maybe not even one, honestly.
unkempt cloud
True. Sucks that I can't email them about it - I have to call 1-7PM Weekdays... Maybe I should just show up in person and ask about it, that might make a better impression that some anonymous creep on the other end of the phone. But at the same time, I have to nail being "confident" and "I don't know if I should accept a job like this" at the same time, lol.
timber wharf
Okay, what do you do? Back-end?
neon moat
yes, python / django
timber wharf
Just Django?
neon moat
i learnt python and django as a framework, i work with django on a day to day basis plus a number of other bits of software
check the pinned messages, check out my link if u want some info 👍🏼
neon moat
late 20s
timber wharf
Congratz, i'm glad for you.
neon moat
@timber wharf thanks, do you have any education?
timber wharf
I took some university courses in Entrepreneurship but i dropped out the college.
neon moat
@timber wharf how old r u?
timber wharf
22
timber wharf
Thanks but i don't thing age does matter. You are lucky too, no matter the age. Important thing is you are doing the thing you love or not.
neon moat
@timber wharf if i could roll back 3-4 years I would 100% go to university for some type STEM degree
makes life so much easier
timber wharf
What's a STEM degree?
neon moat
science, technology, engineering and math
stem just means the area of study
so one of them
i would probs do a computer science degree
knowing what i know now
but being late 20s it wasnt feasable for me, so had to do it self taught
but its tough, at least for me
but each to their own
timber wharf
It's though for everybody. As long as you don't give up and keep working on it, everything becomes possible and easy with time.
I like this article.
neon moat
I agree you dont need a degree, but its a lot harder, i know it
because ive done it
😉
timber wharf
Depends on country and education. In my country college is just waste of time, money and energy.
They teach too much irrelevant topics and lessons.
And it doesn't guarentee a job since it's mostly outdated.
neon moat
@timber wharf same as unis worldwide then lol
@timber wharf dont associate formal education with learning, i know full well a degree doesnt teach you anything, im saying it makes life a lot easier for getting a job
@timber wharf because a lot of jobs require degrees
if you have the willpower and time on your side to go self taught then by all means go for it
timber wharf
I don't think so. USA jobs mostly don't require a degree.
neon moat
i 100% agree with you that you can get a job as self taught, what i am saying is, its a lot harder
timber wharf
Even companies like Google and Apple has dropped the college degree requirement.
I don't believe that it's harder.
neon moat
well ive done it....and i know for a fact it is
but good luck to you if u dont want to listen
timber wharf
If you have passion and you proved yourself with projects as a self taught, it's even easier.
neon moat
you're delusional
timber wharf
Your experince is based on UK, not worldwide.
So doesn't apply to USA and my country.
neon moat
i wish you all the best man, im just saying theres a big difference between listening to a youtuber and reading an article which is mostly for political correctness and diversity, than actually getting a job as self taught
timber wharf
That Youtuber and article writer has more than 17 years of experience in industry.
You are just generalizing your limited experience to worldwide.
It's just a fallacy.
neon moat
Good luck to you 👍🏼 not going to argue with you. I dont know why you're asking for peoples opinions and then when you get it you argue against?
its a bit odd
gilded valley
The good old desire for confirmation bias
neon moat
^
neon moat
Not here to argue with people, good luck to you 👍🏼
timber wharf
You can say it's a survivorship bias but i don't really believe blindly to Mosh's words. I also checked the stats, datas and experiences.
Still doesn't matter, being a self taught doesn't decrease the chance.
gilded valley
data is already plural, so the correct term is data not datas
timber wharf
English is not my native language.
gilded valley
Are you European?
if so, then I know of multiple people who are self taught way past degree level who couldn't find jobs for years
timber wharf
Are they in USA?
gilded valley
are you?
timber wharf
I'll.
neon moat
@gilded valley are you a developer? self taught?
gilded valley
I'm a university student myself
but I know a few people who went the non traditional route and struggled a lot
neon moat
i agree with you, im self taught but i did have a stroke of luck for my current job, without it i feel i would still be job hunting
i think it depends on which company it is and who within that company is reviewing CV's
the hardest part is getting an interview
and to do that you need to get past the person reviewing the C
CVs*
and a lot of the time its HR who are completely non technical lol
vapid jay
they always say you don't need a degree.. you still need some sort of achievement or experience..
neon moat
@vapid jay agreed
vapid jay
I have a friend who works on networks for Android.. he went the non traditional route, but he's an expert on linux and C..
timber wharf
@vapid jay Of course you need achievement and experience. But degree is not a must have thing.
vapid jay
yes.. that's what I meant.. he doesn't have a normal degree
vast shoal
Josh is correct that degrees are a good way to get past HR.
timber wharf
If you have passion and you proved yourself with projects as a self taught
gilded valley
to get experience you need a job, to get a job without experience you need a degree
The HR guy doesn't give a toss about your github
vast shoal
A technical interviewer can tell if a person has what it takes just from talking, but HR usually has no idea what having a Github profile means.
timber wharf
@vast shoal In which country?
vast shoal
Every western country, at least.
vapid jay
I heard a ping sound.. no clue where it came from..
neon moat
I agree, western culture is very similar in terms of bias in favour of a formal education
gilded valley
Even with a degree its not that easy to get a well paying job. A lot of places offer CS grads like 24k pa in the UK
neon moat
@vast shoal i agree
vapid jay
I know this one engineer at Samsung in Korea.. the guy is smart but didn't go to a top university.. he's the only one in his department who didn't and always gets shunned for it when it comes to decision making
neon moat
its always going to be an area for debate, but at the end of the day you need to think about who your CV is being sent to / reviewed by
i think if people have the ability to do a degree they should do it
self taught route is for people who dont have the means to do a degree
anyone who has the ability to do a degree but goes the self taught route is mistaken in their beliefs
why make life hard for yourself?
if self taught is your only option then ofcourse you have to get on with it
and if you're not getting paid to write python how can you argue with people that are when you're still an absolute beginner?
im not an elitist by any means, but ask anyone who has actually managed to change from one career to another self taught and you will find out reality
its an absolute grind
timber wharf
I'm not talking based on my thoughts/experiences. I am talking based on facts, data and experiences.
neon moat
and i take my hat off to anyone that can do it
well based on my experince i work in a company with almost 100 developers spread over a number of teams, i am the only one without a degree
vapid jay
In my country you don't need a degree in several jobs, mainly front-end ones
timber wharf
@neon moat I don't care about your experience in UK.
gilded valley
Anyone who wants to believe the absolute nonsense clickbait isn't really putting that much thought or real consideration in to learning is my guess
where are you from @timber wharf?
vapid jay
You just need HTML, CSS, JS, MySQL and PHP. Git is a plus
timber wharf
@gilded valley My my, the guy with the highest biases who didn't even check the video and can't even understand it's a clickbait or not, talks just too loud.
timber wharf
I like that cognitive bias.
gilded valley
where are you from @timber wharf
neon moat
@timber wharf dont understand why you ask for people opinions on mosh, then argue against us?
timber wharf
You are just full with fallacies. Won't waste my time with you.
gilded valley
what a meme
timber wharf
I AM NOT TAKING MOSH'S OPINIONS AS FACTS
neon moat
@timber wharf you arent here for help or advice or people opinions, you are just here for people to confirm your own beliefs
timber wharf
Are you for real? Job listings in TX DOESN'T REQUIRE college degree.
It's not a "must have" thing.
neon moat
Ok thats cool, but you completely ignored what we just said about HR and people looking at CVs
but if you want to ignore thats cool
timber wharf
I'm not ignoring that, i have said that a self taught has to prove himself with projects and achievements.
timber wharf
You can't just get a job with fancy words and zero projects.
gilded valley
was that the HR guy doesn't care about your projects
neon moat
@timber wharf you can, its called a degree
gilded valley
unless your project is some android app that's been downloaded 5 million times
neon moat
a degree gets you in the door, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional
timber wharf
I'm talking about self taughts.
neon moat
you have to go above and beyond as self taught
but anyway, thats enough from me, not going to argue
it doesnt mean anything
gilded valley
the absolute lunacy of this. I shouldn't care that some random person on the internet is obviously wrong, but it really frustrates me
vapid jay
someone is always wrong on the internet
timber wharf
Why are you even spreading bullshit here while you are just a STUDENT?
vapid jay
guys.. you're gonna get in trouble
timber wharf
Charlie, you are just waste of time full with fallacies. As i said before, i'm not wasting my time with you.
neon moat
@gilded valley u doing a comp sci degree?
gilded valley
Yeah
neon moat
u learning python ?
gilded valley
Technically I'm learning it as part of my degree
but I'm ~2 years ahead of the average pleb on my course
so I'm mostly self learning
neon moat
cool, should check out my post if u want book reccomendations etc
gilded valley
the goal with my degree is just to tick the box
neon moat
exactly
gilded valley
I saw it a while ago and it was interesting yeah
neon moat
if i could turn back the clock i would do the same
a degree plus learning python yourself puts you so far ahead once you go job hunting
having both makes life so much easier
no need to make life hard
gilded valley
Just the fact I'm engaged with my subject area and actually enjoy it is a huge advantage over the people doing it just because they want a reasonable paying job. In the UK with 50% of people now going to university, a degree is becoming pretty standard
at least thats what I've seen from my limited experience
and I am at a very not-good university
neon moat
how long u got left?
gilded valley
2 years. I just finished my first year
neon moat
nice, good luck 👍🏼
gilded valley
Thanks
viral ridge
@neon moat just cs study + learning python and good to go?
analog schooner
My observation is that if you wish for a job in IT sector, then study JavaScript and SQL or other database usage. Python wont hurt, though.
neon moat
@analog schooner well that is completely dependant on jobs in your area, so thats a bit of a blanket statement
analog schooner
@neon moat I agree. Almost every job posting where I am has had JavaScript and SQL either as requirement or seen as a bonus.
I got lucky in that I landed on a job that only required Python expertice
viral ridge
nvm that
vapid jay
@analog schooner expertise? Do you mean knowing the language pretty well?
cloud trail
What should I do to get my first Python job on Fiverr? Doesn't have to pay much, just want to build my rep :)
neon phoenix
cough cough JS cough cough
analog turtle
its gonna be mostly web dev stuff
zenith socket
a question for office workers, how much space in your HDD do you use for work?
mint citrus
depends on the work you do
For everyone: if you want to get into a job learn multiple languages and don't be afraid to learn a new thing on the job. If you only do python you will hit a wall at some point im sure.
cloud trail
Good point, I just used Python as an example because I know it
viral ridge
So, I am finishing CS study this year
I suffer from chronic pain and hence I cannot code by hands anymore. I use voice recognition. It utterly sucks, but I need to work.
Due to this, I just want to specialize in some specific field (because broad research is very not fun with voice rec), preferably earning fat stacks from it.
what paths should i consider:)
vapid jay
My first instinct was some legacy language/framework that companies still use. assumptions: not a lot of competition; doubts: lack of expierience might make it hard to get a "foot in the door".
viral ridge
I looked up cobol job offers already 😛
scarce
Did you mean lack of experience in the specific language or just in general? Gotta start somewhere, my graduation diploma looks fine, and tahts pretty much all i got to show as fresher
viral ridge
I have that
well, no large projects I have done by myself
internship part of my study
which im finishing this xmas
i already finished the internship
but its not like there was never a fresher without much work exp:P
and tbh, the reason I did not work was because I never enjoyed voice recognition, so i basically just stopped coding but kept acing my coruses lol
vapid jay
I ment lack of experience in general and that specific language, but I guess once you get a "foot in" you should be golden, I assume working with legacy stuff would mostly be getting to know code bases, making adjustments and maintenance rather than developing stuff from the ground up
Also scrum master type of stuff might be an option depending wether you like to work with people or not.
viral ridge
doesnt a scrum master earn less than swe?
i dont mind working with people, doing code reviews (good joke lel, that shit will fail anyway), and being the connector in the team.
vast shoal
What about something like project manager?
viral ridge
I thought it would be difficult to get into a proejct manager position just with a CS study behind me. I took few business courses, but not really enough to support a role as manager. I tend to think that managerial positions for a software eng comes after some years practical exp working
vast shoal
Yeah, fair.
Maybe something like requirements analysis?
Bridge the gap between the technical and business side.
viral ridge
yea, thats kind of manager like
if all I was doing was requirement analysis I think my life would be easier
I would say this though. voice recognition is possible to use, for voice coding. BUt mainly with voice grammars and a prog language you excel at
cedar cedar
hey i want to learn more about the phases of software development and general project management stuff
Im a cs major
can someone give me some direction?
i feel a hole in my knowledge about how big software project are actually approached and organised
torpid bolt
software design/architecture could be interesting, though i think it's preferable to consider that only a part of design, and the other part is usually done in code.
vivid dock
How hard is it to startup my own thing, does anyone have any experience with a self founded startup here?
torpid bolt
by all accounts the hardest thing possible, but the most exilerating one too.
indigo sleet
It depends on your country honestly
torpid bolt
i read "the hard thing about hard things" recently, and it was enlightening in that regard
indigo sleet
I'm working on a startup but I'm focusing on the code right now, although I have registered it
vivid dock
Well I mean, I have plenty of ideas for a startup we went through a pitching process through a course at uni, which only got good feedback so i know the process of pitching an idea
torpid bolt
one issue is the large amount of things you have to think about, working on the product, the marketing research, the accounting, the recruiting when that becomes necessary, the PR, the tech, and the money raising, you need to be focused and able to delegate or delay things that you can't handle yourself.
viral ridge
@vivid dock so, worth a shot aye. There's only one way to find out if its for u
@cedar cedar I suppose getting into a company doing big projects is a good start
potent cargo
How proficient should I get with python/r before apply for entry level data science positions?
I took a lot of econometrics classes during undergrad and it's a really interesting field to me, but we used stata almost exclusively and I never got a chance to learn r or python
vapid jay
depends..
if it's a data analyst position, it's more sql than python that you need to be familiar with.. finance professionals prefer R
but basic idea is it's more stats heavy than anything else
onyx arch
Hmmm
potent solar
academic positions also prefer stata/R/SAS for data science, ime
vast shoal
Especially since recruitment is against the server rules.
vapid jay
^
neon needle
lul
craggy wave
Let's not turn this channel into an off-topic spamfest
fathom patrol
is anyone willing to review/give feedback/improve my pre screening interview answers? they're more technical questions rather than code related
gilded valley
My suggestion would be post them here. I couldn't offer much feedback, but I'd be interested to see what the questions are like
fathom patrol
sure. it's for waymo
im not that good at math but first question is kinda math related
-
Technical question: We use virtual simulations for estimating the quality of the self-driving car’s software. If you needed to compare two simulated scenarios, and in one of them a self-driving car is braking up to -3 meters per second squared, in another up to -8 meters per second squared (unit of acceleration), which one do you think is more risky?
-
Tell me about a time you've had to communicate a difficult concept or set of information to a friend or colleague.
-
Critical reasoning: We also use simulation to understand how the software would behave in the event of potential collisions. Given the following scenario, what variables would you manipulate to try and make a collision occur? Say for example, the self-driving car is approaching an intersection with a yellow light for their direction of travel, there is also a car on the road following closely behind it in the same direction, in the same lane. The two cars come to a stop without incident in this example. What variables would you manipulate in simulation to cause a collision?
havent done math in like voer 4 years and i'm prob wrong on it, but i want to assume it's the one with 8 m/s as it can potentially cause more injuries and fatalities?
- ill prob make something up
- (only scenario i can think of) the self driving car is speeding up, but decides to come to a sudden stop
gilded valley
My suggestion for number 2 is try and think of a real example. Its generally not too difficult to tell when someone is making it up
vapid jay
Why would you ask about changing a variable to cause a collision lol?
Sounds like you want the car to crash
gilded valley
The first one I think its clearly the second one, because 8 m/s/s seems like quite a fast decelleration to the degree that it might cause injuries in the car, or for you to get rear ended
vapid jay
It depends what you are trying to avoid
If you need to stop because you are driving off a cliff and you are surely going to die then 8m/s any day
If you need to stop because you'd drive in to a huge pile of rubber ducks I'd probably go 3m/s
gilded valley
It doesn't even say its aiming for a stop. So I guess part of the point is to discuss the different reasons for both, and the potential risks associated with both
vapid jay
Well it's saying it's braking 8m/ss so it's surely going to come to a stop at some point
gilded valley
It might be going from a 70mph to a 30mph zone or something like that
vapid jay
It might be doing anything we have no idea
gilded valley
yeah thats my point. You need to discuss the associated possiblities
fathom patrol
yeah 3rd one also depends on the car behind you
so speed of the car is surely one variable
vapid jay
I don't know just to throw it out there maybe give an example that a crash happened and the self-driving car is to presume guilty. What could be the possible reasons that the cars self-driving computer failed to avoid this?
Only thing I know about self-driving cars though is Elon Musk and George Holtz memes 
fathom patrol
yup dont know much about self driving cars as well
indigo elm
How do you brake at -8m/s^2. Isn't that a double negative
Shouldn't it be "break/decelerate at 8m/s2"
fathom patrol
he probably meant to write ~8/s
indigo elm
Oh right
fathom patrol
8 m/s
gilded valley
"break/decelerate at 8m/s2" decelerate isn't techincally correct, you just refer to negative acceleration
so break at -8m/s^2 is correct
vapid jay
"George Holtz"
mint citrus
just ask. not ask to ask
stiff rover
Cool....so i am learning development with flask and want to join an IT company .....how are the career opportunities for me in future?
mint citrus
how many projects have you done?
stiff rover
Working on one currently
mint citrus
its not really about what you use (ok it is a just a little bit) but more about what you have done to prove yourself
stiff rover
My first with Python
mint citrus
really if you can program and have something to show for it, your career opportunities are great
stiff rover
A mun
Amin
I want to switch to data scientist later
How to switch the domain later on?
mint citrus
honestly i don know. Prob they look more for people with academics there. Like a masters or phd degree
stiff rover
Ohhh
mint citrus
but take that with a grain of salt
stiff rover
Didn't get that phrase
mint citrus
cause i never went into data science so im not sure how that world workds
im just saying I dont really know. but thats my guess
mint citrus
i dont see why not
stiff rover
And what about europe ?
mint citrus
masters in IT anywhere is pretty good really.
stiff rover
Actually i completed my bachelor's two years ago in India ....and now i am applying as a fresher in an IT company
mint citrus
I mean in IT its mostly about proving yourself during the interview
stiff rover
I worked in a bank midwhile......so is it really hard to justify the gap?
mint citrus
if you can prove you do it then thats all you need
mint citrus
for getting you resume looked at, you want a few projects you do
stiff rover
It's been more than two years
mint citrus
ah then thats fine
if you kept up with working in it through personal projects you are fine
stiff rover
Well i started kinda late but i am working on one right now
Idk how good/bad it sounds
mint citrus
I mean it never hurts to apply. but yeah, get working on those projects. will help you stand out from the others cause if they are fresh grads and you had a 2 year break, they will probably be looking at the grads as the knowledge is a bit fresher
stiff rover
I am really nervous
mint citrus
i didnt do a masters
stiff rover
Ohh
mint citrus
I moved to Europe cause the state i lived in had shit jobs
stiff rover
You are working there
mint citrus
and moving to europe was easier for ... reasons
stiff rover
For a foreigner
mint citrus
depends on how you live tho
mint citrus
well heres my secret: I have dual citizenship
stiff rover
Cool
mint citrus
so it was easy for me.
stiff rover
Indian constitution doesn't approves of dual..so it sucks for me
mint citrus
aw
mint citrus
i already had it
stiff rover
One thing....the gap between masters and bachelors ...matters ?
mint citrus
Finding a job in a foreign country is difficult. even if you do have citizenship
I mean
to some it does
to others it doesnt
I was able to bridge the gap with my previous work exprience
stiff rover
Ohh so if you work somewhere it's cool?
mint citrus
most normal dev jobs just require a bachelors or equivalent
well work in the field that is
mint citrus
i would think it does. doesnt mean you can get there without one
have you had any jobs in your field before?
mint citrus
ah. try to get a job in your country first for like a year and then move
and please apply from wherever you are first to the other country before you go there.
I usually apply like 3 months ahead of when I actually move to another country
stiff rover
Yes yes
mint citrus
then it takes about 3 months to get a job in that country
stiff rover
I am applying in my country only
mint citrus
ah ok ok
mint citrus
it doesnt matter since you are applying to your own country
stiff rover
I mean what if i wanna apply for foreign in future
mint citrus
ah well apply for jobs while you are still in your home country.
mint citrus
yeah
stiff rover
Cool...thanks
mint citrus
no problem
stiff rover
I am still looking for answers on how to switch to data scientist domain ......if one knows please tell me 🙂
old obsidian
@stiff rover could probably get an internship as a junior data scientist.
Exposure and real-world-work >
stiff rover
I am a fresher as i told....and also i want to secure a job first
marsh wind
close enough, I guess? For Data Science you need (on a personal level) to be able to code well and learn relevant libraries and to undestand math concepts
so you should be somewhat comfortable with linear algrebra, multivariable calculus and statistics
@stiff rover I assume it's fine for you when it comes to coding
so question is how's your math understanding. And then there are some online courses that can give you an intro on Machine learning and Data science
stiff rover
My mathematics is good 😋
So knowledge alone is enough without any certification or university label?
marsh wind
probably for a job you will need once again to do some projects as in the end smart recruiter and future employer should understand that with projects you can be good even without a degree
well it can certainly be more difficult
but if you are able to convey your skills and show your experience....
stiff rover
First i will get a developer job and then switch into data scientist
marsh wind
I can see the issue in getting past HR so you might have to do more networking to try and go around non-technical HR/recruiters
cause they might care less about your porject and skills and more about degree as they'll use it as a filter basically
stiff rover
I gotta lunch...i will bbl
marsh wind
🙂
stiff rover
Sorry
marsh wind
discalimer - I myself is trying to switch into DS in Europe :
stiff rover
Nice
So if i go in as a developer ...first i need to learn from courses and do projects in relevant field and then apply for a data scientist job ?
neon moat
@stiff rover apply and do some interviews for data science jobs, see if you are up to scratch, only then you will know if you are able to secure a data science job,
no harm in applying and see what happens
unique wave
Hey, I am not sure what # this should go into, but I am looking for someone who can answer a few questions in a short interview tomorrow in a private chat? I am currently a game development student (I'm in the basics rn) and for an assignment I have to find someone who is currently in the game dev field to answer a few questions. I was hoping someone in here can help me out;;
gilded valley
LinkedIn Might be a better shout than this server. If you message enough random game devs you'll probably get a response
Or probably Twitter
unique wave
I'll go check twitter again^^ I'm just trying all ways of finding someone since I haven't had any luck so far
gilded valley
for an assignment I have to find someone who is currently in the game dev field to answer a few questions. is maybe not the right way to go about asking. I'm sure you are actually interested, but this sounds a lot like you're only doing this because you have to
unique wave
I am interested of course! And in other posts I worded it better. However they are just basic questions required for a course so I also have to do it. Sorry if I came off wrong
gilded valley
I'm not even sure it did, and I'm also only a student so it doesn't really matter what I think; it was just a suggestion though
vapid jay
I saw job listings for python a couple weeks ago
They averaged 100k and the lowest was 50k / year
Is that actually true or
I get it's high demand but it just seems like
You know
ornate stag
wait but how proficient do you need to be in python for that kind of job?
mint citrus
@vapid jay depends on location really
@ornate stag its not really about python proficiency but more what you can do. How you think, how you solve problems, proficiency of algorithms, knowldege of design patters, all depended on the specific job description
if you just starting out, expect about 50-70k I would say
ornate stag
mhmm that sounds AWESOME!
mint citrus
seniors end up in the higher 100k area
ornate stag
but dayum 50-70 that sounds kinda low
I am majoring in CS its like the 3rd week of uni
3rd week of python
mint citrus
if you just starting out, thats what most people end up getting
@ornate stag again it really depends on location
if you work in cali in silicon valley you prob gonna see more like 80k-100k starting
ornate stag
bruh silicon valley 100k is shitt
mint citrus
but other cheaper places or "normal" places, you will get more like 50-70k
well yeah
ornate stag
like thats the same salary as like a cashier dude
mint citrus
people want to hire other people cheap
ornate stag
bruh a small house in silicon valley is like 1.8k$ per month lmao
mint citrus
just because you study CS doesnt mean you gonna be set for life straight up
ornate stag
bruh dont get my hopes down :((
mint citrus
if you studying CS just for that, well, you out for a ride son
vapid jay
then again you don't need to work in silicon valley
pulsar drum
Those sound like decent starting salaries
To me anyway. It's enough for me to live comfotably
But definitely wouldn't live up to any visions of making fortunes
What do you expect though if you're a junior dev...
vapid jay
or you could join as a junior dev somewhere else where you're more needed.. they pay well and you get a lot more responsibilities..
that is, if you can grind in an environment that's mostly quiet outside of work..
mint citrus
Kinda what im doing now
not gettting a western salary but its pretty darn high in this country
and im getting a lot of experience
hoping it will boost my salary when I go back to the US
digital birch
Yo, I'm a sophomore in high school and I recently picked up the Crash Course to Python book and I've been really interested in learning Python. I've been interested in learning programming since I was really young and want to specifically do Game Development. Anyway areas of computer science benefit from people experienced with Python. Just trying to do some research on what jobs I could apply for once learned.
obsidian acorn
there are a lot
learning a particular language opens a lot of doors to learning new languages as well as junior programming opportunities
it is not easy none the less to find those opportunities, but the are there
In terms of gaming, you need to have a lot of math background. Though python is used in creating some games, it is not one of the main languages used for gaming. But knowing python, and using some of the gaming libraries are certainly a great starting point
digital birch
Alright thanks man
neon moat
@digital birch if you want to be doing game developlement then focus on game development languages, not python
worthy rapids
Okay so, this is most likely not the place to be saying this or to ask it. But I have nothing to lose so here it goes.
I've been copying other peoples python scripts and changing it to my liking. I have no real knowledge about programming or the language python, just that what I've seen on stack overflow.
Now I don't have education behind me and infact I haven't even finished my high school.
I have no sense of direction in my career as I am a cashier.
I have this pull to programming and I want to study python as my first language.
But someone has told me that I shouldn't do it because I would have to learn more than 1 language and that I wouldn't be able to keep up with many languages for integrating as well as the language keeps changing.
I just don't know where to start or if it is even worth my effort to try just to fail.
neon moat
So someone told you its not possible to learn something?
👍🏼
stop procrastinating and get on with it
limpid torrent
Yes, do it. I learnt python on my spare time and became a python developer. My education is mechanical engineering 😛
neon moat
@limpid torrent he said hes a cashier, so how does your education in mechanical engineering anywhere near translate into his situation?
limpid torrent
sorry for not elaborating. I meant to that I had no background in programming
indigo sleet
Pretty much anyone can learn Python, I'm sure you'll be just fine
You're taking the initiative, and that's a great sign
neon moat
Plenty of guides on what to learn and the process, annoys me every single new person says "how do i learn python"
when 5minutes of searching will show you for yourself
inner wrenBOT
neon moat
@worthy rapids you're still in high school? which means you are more than able to learn what is needed in the coming years
and someone telling you that there is too much to learn is talking s***
worthy rapids
No I'm not
indigo sleet
If there was too much to learn then none of us would be here
worthy rapids
I had to leave school
indigo sleet
Probably the person you were talking to gave up at the first sign of difficulty
neon moat
^
indigo sleet
I'm not gonna say it's easy
neon moat
people that are losers dont like other people wanting to succeed
worthy rapids
He was a c++ masters dev
neon moat
yawn, ignore him
indigo sleet
Because it isn't like C++
neon moat
hes just butthurt he has to learn to keep up with new technologies most likely
still relying on his masters from years ago for a free ride
worthy rapids
Idk but I want to do this.
worthy rapids
What?
neon moat
@worthy rapids then do it
indigo sleet
!resources
inner wrenBOT
indigo sleet
Have fun o/
neon moat
👍🏼
worthy rapids
If I had to take 1 hour a day and did tutorials online, as an estimated guess.
How long will it take me to understand syntax and be able to write Basic scripts without looking at other peoples work?
vapid jay
3 bathtubs is my guess
as a more serious attempt: what is your definition of basic? other than that, everybody learns at a different pace, for some people things just "click" with programming, others have to put serious effort in even for the most basic concepts
worthy rapids
That's also true, ty
You see for now I don't really know where I want to go with python, atm I'm just trying to be able to write something.
And understand what I'm doing
vapid jay
Just give it a try, see how it goes. Using google is not frowned upon, its a valuable skill even. Nobody expects you to remember things by hearth, knowing where to find the information you need is usually enough.
vast shoal
@worthy rapids You could take a look at https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/267624335836053506/512380391060144148/1533339804771.png, pick anything from that list that seems cool, so you have something to aim for. Then you can just gradually learn what you need in order to build it. If you're not sure what that is, you can ask here and people can point you in the right direction.
In the process of doing that, you will learn a lot of useful things and probably get inspiration for what else you can do with Python, or programming in general.
Try not to think in terms of whether you can code, or whether you can code on your own or not, but instead in terms of what you want to build, and how to do it. If you're able to make something, it doesn't matter exactly how you got there, you will implicitly learn everything you need to know eventually. Just keep making new and different things.
worthy rapids
Thank you for the reference aswell as the support
I will have a look at that list soon.
Omw 119 sudoku, yesterday I was so bored at work I made a sudoku from scratch and had the idea of making a script that solves it
I will Google one by one and see what all of it is about.
still condor
I don't really understand why points 86 and 88 are considered hard, though.
indigo sleet
I mean, I would consider them hard
still condor
Well, 82 and 84 are considered medium difficulty!
rare sand
I definitely think writing an esolang would be easier than an UART in assembly
I mean, we did an esolang challenge at #esoteric-python some time back
and lots of members came up with something
worthy rapids
Oki so now I'm reading and reading and on multiple occasions the word Respectively comes up.?
solemn valley
I mean depending on what exact chip youre programming sending a Hello World over UART can just be, set uartenable bit to 1, write data into buffer, done
so for example for atmel AVR MCUs thatd just be a digs out old proejct
//init
UBRRH = UBRR_VAL >> 8;
UBRRL = UBRR_VAL & 0xFF;
UCSRB |= (1<<TXEN);
UCSRC = (1<<URSEL)|(1<<UCSZ1)|(1<<UCSZ0);
// send
while (!(UCSRA & (1<<UDRE)))
{
}
UDR = 'H'; // and so on and so forth
I have no idea what anything you just said meant.
solemn valley
it is incredibly easy to do UART on some microcontrollers, those lines of C code above just translate into a few logic operations, one assignment and one conditional jump, Im quite sure that anyone could put that off
rare sand
I'm sure you believe that, yes.
vapid jay
dumb question time: if i want a programming job focused on just python, i'm assuming i'd still need other skills like css or php right?
or a programming job in general
what else would i need to leanr other than python?
gilded valley
My suggestion would be to have a look at job listings and what they want. Html/css/js are pretty required if your want to do web dev
gilded valley
At least being able to understand what's happening is probably worth it
vapid jay
ok, thanks
shy pollen
Unless you are looking for a php job specifically, not much point in learning it
gilded valley
Tonnes of places have legacy PHP systems that need to interface with modern systems
marsh wind
Yeah, but it looks like know people try to move away from php backednd?
gilded valley
Its moving in that direction, but the vast majority of businesses see enterprise tech as a sunk cost, not something to be investing in meaning it will take a very long time until its dead
pulsar drum
I have a friend who got hired for a php position without any php knowledge really
but they trained him
went to php conferences etc
so I think there's still a market for it
And they're building new apps with php, not just maintaining existing ones
gilded valley
What level of education are you at?
gilded valley
In which case I think your cv is to basic
naive zephyr
Sorry what do you mean?👀
indigo sleet
Yeah, this isn't really enough for a CV
naive zephyr
oh
indigo sleet
You need your education, work experience and references, for a start
gilded valley
https://imgur.com/a/d8ughm0 theres an example from this channel of a great format
naive zephyr
@indigo sleet but I don’t have experience
indigo sleet
You still in school?
naive zephyr
also I don’t want to write my major
indigo sleet
Why not
naive zephyr
No i am sociology graduated
indigo sleet
I mean, that's good in any CV, showing that you got an actual qualification
Regardless of what it is
gilded valley
IBM, and JPMorgan, and I assume others, have programs to hire non tech grads into tech
naive zephyr
But it doesn’t related to CS
gilded valley
So you still want to show you've graduated
naive zephyr
So i must write my education,what else?
gilded valley
Pretty much all the section headers in the example I sent except leadership. Then also references
naive zephyr
Ok,the tables idea is good or I should remove them?
naive zephyr
I don’t have much things to make two pages i am beginner):
vast shoal
One page is fine if it contains all relevant information presented in a readable way
oblique vapor
@naive zephyr no offense . Your cv tho 👌
ashen summit
Hello all
I am starting my job with Microsoft tomorrow (well a company that was just recently acquired by them), they told me there is no dress code. This is my first job, what should I be wearing?
@naive zephyr if you are still around, I was also a humanities major turned dev, if you wanna talk lemme know
neon needle
someone smart once said dress for the job you want not the one you have
or something like that
vast shoal
@ashen summit Wear jeans and a shirt maybe? To be on the safe side. Check how others dress.
ashen summit
@neon needle I have been doing that my whole life in the university for 8 years, I just wanna relax a bit now lmao
shy pollen
Depends what the company is like I think
ashen summit
@vast shoal that is what I was thinking.
ashen summit
they were dressed pretty nicely the day I came to interview, but I think they were meeting with another company, so I feel maybe that was not the norm
it is a startup though
shy pollen
Interviewers are usually external
ashen summit
but pretty established at this point
shy pollen
Sometimes on a contract with microsoft
Sounds like casual with a bit of formal should suffice
Best to see what others are wearing if possible
ashen summit
okay sounds good, I will go with nice shoes, jeans, and a button shit
shirt*
haha
shy pollen
👍
shy pollen
Yeah
ashen summit
i studied my ass off for the past nine months, and applied to over 300 places, then got lucky hahs
u can view my portfolio here domdit.com
neon needle
what websites did u use to apply to 300 places?
if u dont mind me asking
@ashen summit
ashen summit
indeed linkedin and angelist
neon needle
ty
ashen summit
i live close to NYC so your mileage may vary
ashen summit
haha yes it should