It is a pretty good system in my opinion but some of the departments are oversaturated so it's hard to get a job. Like for example economics has become overly saturated.
#career-advice
plush widget
I've also seen the exact opposite though, with schools that teach a lot of the academic background and then leave students to fend for themselves in terms of career skills
in the long run yeah. the recruiting season is rough on them kids tho
karmic spear
They will be working at Big N or Unicorn companies
The others are more likely to still be doing basic CRUD work
I guess you are having wrong image on large companies.
a good example would be that microsoft got a dedicated team at skype to manage contacts in it.
vapid jay
yeah.. big companies usually have over qualified people doing menial work..
karmic spear
unless you are on the mid-high level of the company hierarchy you would be doing super boring things, and would never feel any impact of your personal work.
vapid jay
cuz they can afford it
I personally know phds who do menial work.. at big projects
what im getting at is..
highly subjective
relatively they dont
karmic spear
that is actually one of the reasons to pay lots of cash, to compensate boring work. Like banks would pay lots of cash to their developers just because 99% of work there is maintenance, and that makes people demotivated.
vapid jay
what im getting at is.. there are people who didn't graduate college with a proper degree but are leading core engineering in large teams because of their swe skills..
there are those that went to top colleges and do menial work at large companies
well no one told you to argue
no one's arguing.. everyone has different experiences
let me take an example from something we say in the disabled community
"if you've met one person with a disability, you've met one person"
not being able to appreciate the fact that you don't know how different teams at different companies work, because you're used to it being done a certain way, is plausible..
you don't know, unless you know, you know..
karmic spear
I'm more than 10 years in the industry and worked at companies where dev team size very from ~5 to 500.
In the end everyone has to decide what size of the team fits best for him. In my case I'd say companies where dev team <100 is my best.
But that does not mean it applies to everyone, I'm sharing my experience of work at large companies and experience of my ex-colleagues and friends.
vapid jay
anyways.. there are people who get to do cutting edge stuff, because of their programming skills + where they graduated from + advanced stuff they published and contributed to
But there are people who are overqualified and work on mature projects and do menial work (relative to what they're capable of)..
of course
can't get anywhere without personal interest.. so true.. especially those that dont go to top colleges, they strive to get noticed and get picked up for good roles in big projects
highly disadvantageous for students who can't connect to good swe practices without the theory.. yes..
@gloomy lagoon Yeah no that is just not true
Regarding having a rigurous CS education making you a good programmer
Or having schools teaching SWE them being worse
it doesn't.. he's just saying the theory helps..
They really don't
going to good schools wont automatically make you a good programmer either..
I think anyone who has worked knows this
I know this one guy who heads a major team on a popular mobile platform
I literally work with the best engineers in my field in a company that does programming
hes the one without a proper degree
I know they can't program
but is an amazing programmer because he has solid understanding of theory
Because they were not taught proper programming
And they are still smart as fuck people
wait
And have a vast theoretical background in their field
I have a venn diagram for this
main thicket
Programming is a craft and essentially anyone that keeps doing it becomes good at it with some practice
vapid jay
Yes
Exactly
Programming is definitely a craft
When it comes to software architecture and major design theory comes more in to play
But learning some basic software patterns isn't university level stuff at all
It's really intellectually dishonest to think that programming itself is some high IQ uni work lol
No it isn't
Because it involves knowing management, your business, your team
main thicket
Those with theoretical background are able to become good programmers who can keep in mind the implications of their code and how to improve it. A lot of system design is just seeing how other systems are designed
vapid jay
well I couldnt find it.. darn
You don't know what you are talking about if you think being an architect is just designing a simple system
Or just knowledge of said systems is enough
Systems design can be just as much learned with time as simpler patterns
That is what you said
And that is fucking stupid and overly simplified piece of garbage
main thicket
Jesus calm down Susan
vapid jay
who are the theory heavy people.. only ones are in academia and they cant code for production :v
I know a lot of good developers from academia and equal amount from not academia. Of course it is anecdotal but I think a lot of people see that having an education does not mean you write good code at all.
main thicket
People love talking about this stereotype of this "person who's good at theory but can't do anything practical" which is ridiculous crap made up by others not as good at the theory trying to justify to themselves
vapid jay
Having an education of course always helps especially in pursuing higher degree of jobs
That is definitely made up yeah
Since something like dentistry or surgery is very practical and theoretical
Knowing algorithms isn't required in most dev jobs
main thicket
Perhaps you're confused since academic code is generally garbage, not because people can't write better code but because it's not going to be used again and it's easier to not worry?
vapid jay
There are skillsets in programming that are more relevant in other industries than others
A company making web apps doesn't care about your algorithmic skills 99% of the time
A company building huge search systems does care 99% of the time
main thicket
I'd say across the big N companies, they generally cover every single inch of programming environments and they seem to be doing a bunch right all while hiring essentially purely on algorithmic ability
vapid jay
Knowledge is power but there is useless power and useful power
Knowing those algorithms is useless when you are developing software in an agile team for customers that need a webapp
Knowing those algorithms is useful when you are developing something that actually deals with fuckton of data and every bit of gain is important
Just like knowing a lot about software security is important when you work in a bank or software security firm
I mean do you get it? There are different skills for different areas of programming
you're referring to domain expertise..
I mean I deal with architects every day and I don't think I've ever heard a discussion about fucking algos rofl
main thicket
That doesn't stop Facebook or Microsoft from testing you on those algorithms anyway when they're hiring people to build Facebook or Office online. Perhaps that's saying something about the requirements or the transferability of skills in algorithms? Nah Why would that be
vapid jay
I did say that having an education definitely helps in your career when it comes to promotions
@main thicket Microsoft, Google, Facebook etc deals with very large data where that information is useful.
But pretty sure most of their jobs are not about algorithms anyway
Or dealing with them on a daily basis
Yes as if it depends on the area of programming
It doesn't seem to matter to you what I say. You simply believe having this background is needed for every area of programming while it definitely is not.
You give out these own isolated examples how it works and that ist he truth to you
It isn't personal to me either and I don't take it as such. I just think you are overvaluing that skillset.
It's cool
Me neither
Fucking bored at work
devil's hour:O
nite nite
robust finch
@vapid jay all programming languages are essentially the same thing, I wouldn’t worry about only knowing python, you can learn anything as you go as long as you have the fundamentals of programming down. The main thing I have learned recently is that as a programmer you can’t really pick and choose what you want to learn when it comes to getting a job. You might get a job in python and get told one day that you have a week to learn javascript and mongo
vapid jay
@robust finch ty for advise
hollow mantle
Not necessarily. Languages with a common paradigm will be similar for sure, but knowing Python wouldn't be much help with something like Prolog or Haskell.
shy pollen
I think he means turing complete sense
native hound
guys i need help to translate a job for my cv
actually the literal translation is Operation Analyst
vale heart
not all languages are turing complete either
little pulsar
@analog turtle wjhat do u work as
analog turtle
broadly, data science
stray tundra
Hi, broke college student speaking. Thing is that my wallet isnt as good as my learning. So Ive a pretty fair understanding of python. Does anyone know a job I could apply to which at least helps me eat every day? Preferably an online job related to python.
compact mist
Freelance on fiverr or upwork or both @stray tundra
The outcome will depend on your effort and marketing of yourself
astral palm
هاي صبايا
craggy wave
@astral palm Please keep it in English on this server
astral palm
@craggy wave اي دونت اندر ستاند انقلش
i don't understand English language
Arabic and Arabic only
craggy wave
This is an English-speaking server, though, with people from all over the world. For more information, see rule 8
!rule 8
inner wrenBOT
fiery bough
How to get the helper roles? Just askin
unreal linden
this channel is for discussing python and the world of work. Questions about our community belong in #community-meta
alpine star
hypothetically let’s say i have an interview with google in 8 hours and i’ve chosen python as my language of choice
i’ve done some prep obviously but what are recommended algorithm / data structures practise resources?
alpine star
sorry, i mean, websites with challenges / quizzes specific to data structures and algorithms
main thicket
What level?
Mediums and hards?
Its not about score, it's all about whether you can solve it at all and if you can, how close to optimality
alpine star
yeah sorry thats why i quoted ""Scored"", i mean the mediums i was doing were faster than a lot of submissions
onyx geode
any core arch linux users here?
if so dm me
mild zenith
@onyx geode Is there anything specifically you're needing?
unkempt ferry
What's a good checklist of things to know before I start applying for internships?
vernal lily
Web dev? Or other
stray dock
I've found https://github.com/kamranahmedse/developer-roadmap pretty useful
charred lion
@stray dock I don't have much of knowledge on Devops but currently involved in a project using ansible and terraform.Do you think I should take the apparoach that you have mentioned in github?
yeah! another question. If you know python ,can you learn Javascript quickly?
hollow pagoda
after overcoming the syntactic differences, you're in the wonderful land of having to find packages to do most of the things that python does with its standard library. that was a big hurdle for me
hollow pagoda
okey.. so, while w3schools is good (it can't really be argued that it's bad), MDN is far more informative and better
so.. just a heads up to not click the w3schools link when you search for something on google, but to scroll down to the mozilla developer network (mdn) one instead. also helped me a lot
charred lion
True.
HTML/CSS seems to be like a never ending ocean.
I will ping @hollow pagoda for further learning.
Thanks again
hollow pagoda
heh, I don't know if it's a w3schools thing, or just a javascript one, but here is how they teach you on w3schools to write an "is an object an array-function" yourself:
function isArray(x) {
return x.constructor.toString().indexOf("Array") > -1;
}```probably just a w3schools thing.. they also show some_arr instanceof Array; .. so yeah
charred lion
ok
unkempt ferry
software engineering @vernal lily anything along that route
thank you, @stray dock !!
vernal lily
that webdev roadmap is great
I would say try to get some projects on your personal github
and practice algos for interview
that's enough really
unkempt ferry
so a foundation of algs and data structures + a little experience with implementing them in my own projects? (just want to check my comprehension)
vernal lily
yeah I think so
unkempt ferry
ok cool Thank you!
vernal lily
gets harder when senior apparently
cos less senior jobs
also more pay so its harder for employer to justify the hire
main thicket
On the other hand, there's a huge oversupply of juniors who're great at pumping out code but need direction otherwise they'll screw things up. Not enough seniors to meet that demand
austere igloo
Ever do a series of interviews where the rejection feedback was so blatantly tonedeaf and inaccurate you wonder if they mixed you up with another candidate? Yeah, that's my Monday
vapid jay
no, cuz i dont get interviews
leaden fjord
Hey everyone. I just had a quick question regarding my future career path. Not sure if this is where I should ask it, but I'll give it a shot. I'm currently an undergrad Stats major looking to get into data science. I've been teaching myself Python in my spare time, and plan to learn SQL soon. I am going into my third year of college and will be learning about linear algebra, regressions, and all of the statistical analysis that comes with data science. I've recently applied to a ton of different internships, but not one accepted me. I was just curious what the best course of action would be for me; obviously upload to git, build a good resume, make a good porfolio, etc. But how should I really brand myself? How can I make myself the better candidate over someone else in my position? I am really looking to get a data science internship next summer, so any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated.
leaden fjord
Yes. lmao
main thicket
@leaden fjord emphasise mathematical and statistical maturity (CS majors tend to have very little, most people wanting to do data science don't have a suitable background for it), do data science that has impact (most people have done the same 3 or 4 courses with the same projects)
Cool projects you apply Data science to that makes other go "fuck that's cool" are a major win
And also have a resume that doesn't suck
leaden fjord
Okay. Gotcha. I've put up some basic projects one might do in an introduction to CS course. I havent uploaded anything insanely big. Do you have any recommendations for project ideas? Also, I
main thicket
If you're not getting interviews, your resume sucks, if you're no getting offers, your interviewing sucks
leaden fjord
I've been updating my resume as I learn more
main thicket
What's on your resume right now?
main thicket
I wouldn't bother, that's not really data science
main thicket
I'd rather not open a word document. Got a pdf or image?
main thicket
Also yes, you should anonymise it before you post it
leaden fjord
Fuck
vapid jay
me
vapid jay
lots of jobs and 0 cs projects
leaden fjord
It needs to be updated quite a bit
that was made I think 2 months ago
Since then my major has changed
main thicket
^
leaden fjord
roger that. one sec
main thicket
Yeahhhh that's not really a good way of hiding it
vapid jay
its horrible
leaden fjord
big oof
main thicket
Yeah it's not really a fit in the tech world
leaden fjord
What would you recommend I change? Outside of the obvious things (add projects, update basic info, include git account, etc.)
main thicket
Remove the summary, shorten the skills, remove a job or two, emphasise your education on top along with your GPA and scholarship
leaden fjord
Gotcha.
Brb
Gtg for now. Thank you for your input guys. I'll have to be more careful with my info in the future lmao.
main thicket
Principles of (raggy approved) resume design:
- Show dont tell. You dont neet to tell us you're good at X and Y. You dont need to describe yourself. That's not what a resume is for. We want proof you're good at it without you saying you're good at it, in projects or experience.
- Cut the shit. Cull what's irrelevant unless you truly have nothing to show. Irrelevant jobs are better than no jobs but a lot of irrelevant jobs are hurting you.
- Emphasise what you're good at. Show stuff that's good about you first. Make other people take notice
- Show impact. Anyone can go through a course. What can you do with the skills you gained?
- Buzzwords work (to an extent). People might be annoyed at them like they are at clickbait, but like clickbait, it bloody works on a lot of people.
- Apperance matters. If most recruiters see the barrage of Word-made white resumes with calibri text with barely a semblance of formatting and design, their eyes will glaze over without even reading your content. Make it pretty. Doesnt have to be a design portfolio project on its own, it just has to not look half-assed
@leaden fjord
Resume making can be a fun game and is a pretty good way of increasing your interview/application ratio so you can focus on what's really important
yep. although 2 pages works fine if you have a lot of experience and can fill second page too
leaden fjord
You have no idea how much you've just helped me. I'll make sure to redo it. Thank you so much again for your help man. If you dont mind, I'd love to upload my new resume within the next few days (censored of course). If anyone could throw some advice at me at that time too, I would greatly appreciate it
and understood.
vapid jay
@vernal lily seniors have no problem getting a job at all
indigo sleet
That's not true, a current controversy in tech is that a lot of companies are trying to replace their old staff members with younger people
vapid jay
it's true.. lots of senior staff get put on projects where they have a very limited role
till they have no choice but to leave on their own
one side of their tendency to do this stems from senior staff not wanting to contribute much, or wanting to take things easy because their savings and investments yields a lot more than their salaries
I've seen some people go on sabbaticals just to avoid being laid off for failing to meet performance goals
if you have 4 years+ experience, you have no trouble finding a job.. especially if your previous employer is renowned, or you were able to have/show significant impact.. if your exp is 8+, it depends more on your domain
vapid jay
@indigo sleet senior as in senior developer in this context
indigo sleet
That clarification would have been useful earlier :P
karmic spear
well, I guess for seniors in terms of age, they would have better options joining large companies, rather than a low-mid size ones.
plus don't forget that number of developers significantly grew in the past years. according to uncle bob it's doubling every 5 years.
means that we have about 5% of developers with experience of 15-20 years. So the situation where the older you get, the harder it gets to find a new position, should also change.
indigo sleet
That number will also go up though
karmic spear
I know that can't really judge, but my feel is that avg developer age is also growing.
nevertheless, if we go back to the numbers 5% of highly experienced developers seems like a right correlation between principal developers/architects to regular software developers
so you take classical team size of 5, where one of those 5 is a tech lead/team lead, then for every 4 team leads you would have another "managing" developer, so 1:20 seems legit
vast shoal
I highly doubt average developer age is rising
karmic spear
yeah, that is why I said that it's my feel, I can't really judge.
vast shoal
It would imply that most new developers are not younger, or that there are fewer new developers in general
Neither seems plausible to me
icy berry
as long as more people join then leave, average age will trend downward
leaving means dying out in this context
vast shoal
Unless there's a rush of older people switching careers, but it seems unlikely
icy berry
yeah.. but that would not even matter, since the age of the entire set is increasing day by day,
karmic spear
Again if we come back to what uncle bob shows in his statistics, that it's doubled every 5 years, than avg will stay the same.
icy berry
since age is increasing on average, then the average age of someone new will be lower, and if more join then leave. it will trend down..
hmm.. well.. im talking on the top of my head now @karmic spear, but some real examples should sort this out 😄
karmic spear
well, numberwise you will have increase of "young" developers, but proportions and buckets will stay the same
means avg is not changing, only qty is changing
vast shoal
If the majority of joiners are college grads or in a similar age range, and the rate of joining is increasing, then the average age will go down.
If the rate of joining goes up, then the proportion of young people will also increase.
karmic spear
yes, if rate will change, then proportions will change
or if rate will decrease 😉
it will work otherway
vast shoal
And that's what Uncle Bob said.
That numbers double every 5 years. That's exponential increase.
Not linear.
karmic spear
you have same buckets and same proportions
e.g
0-5 = x
5-10 = x/2
10-15 = x/4
15-20 = x/8
...
see ?
unless we will start having not 1:2 of new devs every 5 years, but 1:3, then the avg will not change
vast shoal
I'm like 99% sure your math is off @karmic spear.
icy berry
there are no old people coming in to the field
the increase are only from young people
so there are no way that proportions will stay the same
karmic spear
you don't need "new" old people
vast shoal
The total number of developers double each year, and all new developers are fresh graduates
Err, every 5 years*
Hm, nevermind, I stand corrected. The average age will actually converge on a fixed number.
karmic spear
okay, first of all this might be already going off-topic and we are not solving statistics problem that is based on what Uncle bob is said but whatever.
let say as of today we have 10000 developers (just a random number). then what we have is let's also consider that all of them are finishing university and say they start to work at 25
and lets consider that after 30 years of exp everyone will just die
vapid jay
well you're not taking into current growth in # of developers.. it was growing in the past years, but is the trend continuing/likely to?
karmic spear
In [5]: ages = {
...: 5: 5000,
...: 10: 2500,
...: 15: 1250,
...: 20: 625,
...: 25: 313,
...: 30: 312
...: }
...: def next_generation(ages):
...: young = ages[5] * 2
...: next_gen = {
...: 5: young
...: }
...: next_gen.update(
...: {k+5: v for k, v in ages.items() if k != 30}
...: )
...: return next_gen
...: def avg_exp(ages):
...: return sum(k*v for k, v in ages.items())/ sum(ages.values())
In [11]: for i in range(5):
...: next_gen = next_generation(ages)
...: print(avg_exp(next_gen))
...:
9.524329540837059
9.524329540837059
9.524329540837059
9.524329540837059
9.524329540837059
so unless the trend is changing, numbers are no changing.
okay, there is a bug, that it always calling nest_generation on the same group of ages but if you modify this line of code, it will still show that numbers are the same
vast shoal
def mean_age(n):
result = []
for i in range(n):
buckets = [1]
for _ in range(i):
buckets.append(sum(buckets))
age_sum_per_bucket = [(i + 1) * a for i, a in enumerate(reversed(buckets))]
result.append(sum(age_sum_per_bucket) / sum(buckets))
return result
print(mean_age(10))
[1.0, 1.5, 1.75, 1.875, 1.9375, 1.96875, 1.984375, 1.9921875, 1.99609375, 1.998046875]
Simplified the constants, so all new developers are one year old, and the average age converges on 2.
karmic spear
but of course I agree that we don't consider way too many parameters like, death rate, rate of ppl changing profession and so on. but that was a fun discussion we had here.
vast shoal
Seems like death rate doesn't really affect the conclusion.
karmic spear
it will probably affect it in other way
because death rate is decreasing every year, with improvements in medicine
but that won't have a drastic change, e.g if today avg age is 30, than in 10 years we will have like 31
karmic sun
hey guys I've got a career/salary question for you guys
If I'm at a company where I'm the only person who knows anything about programming, is it hurting my career staying here? I'm building automated systems using python and interacting with our other systems utilizing their API's.
karmic sun
I'm not really learning anything from a supervisor or senior developer. Will this be bad in the long run?
I'm only learning things through figuring it out on my own
vivid dock
Are you able to ask them if you get stuck, and do they make sure you have stuff to work on?
Oh, I didn't read the context above
karmic sun
No, I just have to figure out things on my own. There's only 1 person here I can bounce ideas off of but at the end of the day they can't really help me. They don't make sure I have stuff to work on, I kinda make my own schedule and work by thinking about what more I can add or work on
which is nice because it's relatively easy and not stressful. But bad in the sense I have no direction to grow as a developer or be challenged
vivid dock
Then I guess its dependent on conditions like, do you like doing it that way yourself?
and can you use the "experience" later to get a more challenging job
I quote it as the experience seems to be more like your own thing, but with someone confirming that you did it
karmic sun
I mean it's nice, but this company is way way waaaaay disorganized and toxic and I don't want to stay long term. But like, will it hurt me to do this for a short while longer until I find something I really want to do?
vivid dock
I mean, I'd say it's better than not having a job as long as you're not dreading to go there every morning
Just having a place that is "work" will more often than not make you focus and want to do work
karmic sun
yeah, I enjoy coming up with the automation and solutions to help make work here easier for everyone. I just hate that other people aren't doing their jobs and rely on my work to pick up the slack
vivid dock
Make more work for them to keep the automation going
(don't do that)
Nontheless nothing is stopping you from applying for other positions while you work there 🤷🏽
karmic sun
so my 2nd part follow up question on this is. They were paying me $55k/yr salary as nothing but a html/css email developer. They're offering me $65k/yr. But in all my applications outside the company I have been aiming at $75k. Is it fair for me to counter offer at like $70k
or do i counter at what I want ($75k) and let them talk me down?
I can let you know my full work experience if that weighs in on the salary expectations too
vivid dock
No idea, I have no experience with other economies outside Norway.
vernal lily
wow this is good money
karmic sun
So my undergrad degree is in industrial engineering.
Worked as a data analyst with heavy SQL, excel vba, and powershell to automate those tasks outside of SSIS on the db. That was 2 yrs.
Switched to software development doing web app dev for a yr for a payroll company.
Then worked as warehouse engineer managing and creating custom solutions with php in a drupal site and again utilizing SQL for the oracle db for a year.
Been with my current company for a yr and only took it because I was in a tight spot after leaving the previous company. Was misinformed it would be programming and turned out to be simple html/css pages for emails.
So ~5 yrs experience.
Problem is at all my previous companies, I didn't have someone smarter to learn from. There was no code review, no project collaborations, no continued learning/training plans etc. So while I have 5 yrs experience. It's been basically drop me in the deep end and figure out how to swim on my own at every job. So I don't really know like basic best practices or things maybe a CS undergrad graduate might have or someone who worked in a structured software development role with code review and such
@gloomy lagoon
But I like to think the fact that i've been able to succeed and figure out everything on my own has to count for something
do you think it's fair for me to ask for $75k?
I'm in the DMV area USA
(dc/maryland/va)
problem is most jobs here are government contracts with security clearances required
I've been applying to every software developer/engineer job I can find, but have not had much success in hearing back or getting interviews
cyan torrent
I'm in DMV. Let's say that if you had a clearance and had 5 years as a SWE you're looking at like 130k or... perhaps more lol.
If you worked as a data analyst, perhaps you can work towards a data science career? If you think you're out of touch there's always masters programs.
But otherwise, yeah, if you wanna jump on the SWE train, the best thing to do is to get the title and work with better people and learn.
Junior titles will get you 55-85k already so you shouldn't be that bad off and after 2 years you shed your junior title and move up to around 100k.
Rent isn't as crazy though.
You get a lot more here than in SF for the amount you pay
'least right now
Plus you can always move further
SF land restrictions mean there's nothing further and you're just screwed no matter what if you want a lot
vernal lily
wow how make 350k
cyan torrent
idk, considering I don't think seniors in google get that much
lol
They seem to make like 250-300-ish
from my experience
But anyway, 100k isn't bad in DC, just sayin'.
If you make the swap you're only looking at 2 years of being in the gutters of junior
vernal lily
what is L5?
cyan torrent
senior engineer
cyan torrent
diff for every company
cyan torrent
lol where do you work at now?
Nice
Well, you can have fun bouncing around for more pay
Yeah
DMV's a fake city
It's an up and comer but it doesn't have the shine that NYC/SF/LA have
lmao rip
If you're SWE, I think going to SV is def. the right move though
the bump will follow your career when people offer against it even if you move
karmic sun
@cyan torrent I do want to work towards a data science career. That's my end goal because I loved probability and statistics in my IE undergrad. And I have experience in working with databases/data and software programming especially the automation side of things.
You think 5yrs experience, even in limited scope and lack of progression due to horrible non-tech companies, could still command 80-90k asking salary?
cyan torrent
I think it really just depends on the role they're asking for
and how well you can convince them that you're good lol
They already have a salary in mind so to speak
karmic sun
Masters programs unfortunately cost lots of $$$$
cyan torrent
Just get in a company with an education stipend and burn it for your masters lol
If you have time to waste and you're young you can go for the PhD fellowship too, which has a small grant attached to it
Then you graduate out into L4/L5 afaik.
Yeah
Starting early always makes more money, the PhD is definitely a loss in income relatively.
But more or less guarantees that you'll be bleeding edge research or nothing.
(But I've heard a lot of funny stories from DS online that say that they get paid big bucks to do silly things like data entry at their first jobs)
Bleeding Edge Data Entry Jobs
karmic sun
I pay $900 in rent outside of baltimore area rn, so not bad.
what's a phd fellowship?
cyan torrent
Get accepted in a PhD program
Then ask for financial assistance
You end up working for the college so to speak
karmic sun
i'm 27, is that still considered young? or is it too late lol
cyan torrent
That's up to you to decide.
Yeah
But the question is whether or not you're wililing to go back to school for 4-7 years more.
karmic sun
my undergrad GPA was awful....... thanks crippling depression......
karmic sun
I don't really want to be in school for 7 yrs either tbh
cyan torrent
Then you can use your masters to get you a PhD if you still want to.
karmic sun
I do want to get a masters though
cyan torrent
Doing well your first year in masters will allow you to get a school job in some colleges as well
karmic sun
i'm 99% set on data science, although still not completely sure. It seems like the right fit for me, i just don't want to get into it and find out I hate it afterwards
cyan torrent
I mean you can literally do the classes by yourself and see
There's plenty of DS classes online
vapid jay
Getting a masters
karmic sun
you mean like free online courses?
vapid jay
Would i need it for software dev
vapid jay
Im not a masochist
cyan torrent
SWE strat is to be like spiderman, go to SV, and level up there
craggy wave
PhD just means you have forced research I'm not sure what you mean by that, but that's not how it is at our department
vapid jay
U have a phd?
craggy wave
No, not yet.
cyan torrent
@craggy wave - as in research is guaranteed
craggy wave
That's the point of a PhD, yeah
cyan torrent
You know how to write papers. You know how to write a grant. And you've done at least a couple.
I think a better word would be guaranteed rather than forced here I suppose.
vapid jay
Aren't you forced to research
cyan torrent
Only if you want to graduate 
Some programs are a bit more crazy than others, too.
If you don't do your thesis, sometimes they drop you out with a masters, other times nothing.
vapid jay
So forced works
craggy wave
Here, you can mostly only do a phd after getting your masters
It depends on the country, though
cyan torrent
@karmic sun - there are plenty of full length classes by CMU/MIT/other good colleges that you can find online for many of the topics that they'll teach in DS
Sure you won't get graded and you don't have live help, but you can at least check for yourself if you like the material
And the joke that the masters is a waste of money doesn't apply if your field requires it
DS is one of those careers that they really like to see you do at least a masters
(but prefer phds)
But yeah I'd take a few and check considering it's sometimes... not what you'd expect. Especially the ML portions if you have to deal with that.
karmic sun
I have a udemy course, so while it's not accredited or from a university. It's led by a known guy in the industry. I haven't had much time to put into it yet though
vapid jay
Are they selfpaced online courses
karmic sun
So my plan of attack is to counteroffer my current company 75k, still continue applying outside to all software engineering jobs, and look into DS courses and possibly pursue a masters.
the course I have is @vapid jay
karmic sun
you still in school?
cyan torrent
grats
vapid jay
karmic sun
nice
vapid jay
I need help with my resume
listing my professional experience
I've worked at two companies (including the current one), but before university I used to list my two positions(promotion) at the previous company on the resume
should I remove the two positions and just list it as one for brevity?
icy berry
are those jobs releavant to your new employer?
positions i mean
if they are not, i would not add them.
padding your CV is very 2004
vapid jay
they will be relevant yeah.. they're attributing my domain knowledge from that industry..
but position not so
ok.. I'll take it out then.. and just list the accomplishments together
thanks a lot.. this frees me so much more space to add relevant stuff
main thicket
@vapid jay Post your anonymised resume with the job. Can better help
In data sciency stuff, domain knowledge can be a very good reason to hire someone. I know for sure where I work right now would grab up a data scientist with industry domain knowledge so hard
smoky ferry
where can I create a gig post?
prolly 3 hours worth of work from someone with h5py experience
vapid jay
naa it's ok.. it was enough to put things in order.. fingers crossed
vast shoal
@smoky ferry https://www.python.org/jobs/ This page exists, but I think it's mainly used for longer-term contracts. I'm not sure, though.
Note that recruitment is not allowed on this server according to rule 10.
smoky ferry
yup, tried posting on help channel and it got deleted
i'll just try to figure it out once am free this week, and post the question there if I cant. cheers!
main thicket
Look at all the webdev related roles 👀
I can't be the only person with almost no interest in webdev, frontend or backend both
vast shoal
Or there's just huge demand.
vapid jay
would like to understand what makes people interested in webdev.. what's your motivation
also.. ever had not being allowed to outdo your seniors as the primary reason for wanting to switch jobs? v.v
vast shoal
The huge demand doesn't hurt. The UX aspect can be interesting. It can be motivating that it's so useful to so many real-world applications and businesses.
The direct business value is very tangible.
No, but I saw that a lot working with our Japanese client.
Some people would purposefully speak worse English in meetings so as not to embarrass their superiors.
vapid jay
yeah.. im in a similar if not exact rut.. lol
my manager just told me I can't be doing things that makes some seniors look bad.. le sad well.. time to move to a different company, but I will miss the free food
smoky ferry
is the demand for machine learning engineer or data science huge now?
vapid jay
Any Asian country
vast shoal
@smoky ferry I have the impression that it's not insignificant.
vast shoal
@vapid jay Yeah, I know, but I was wondering about @vapid jay specifically.
vapid jay
A workplace that stops you from doing things properly because it makes seniors look bad sounds kinda garbage
vast shoal
I suspect that's probably why they want to leave.
vapid jay
Japan.. nlp.. at a FANG company too..
so when they tell you about company culture.. they're lying.. because for all the values they preach, it doesn't trickle down.. every company has it's hassle with internal politics
vast shoal
Oh. Aren't you gonna run into the same thing if you go elsewhere?
vapid jay
yeah.. but I'll probably last a year before that happens and it'll be better pay.. so.. lol.. gotta roll with the punches
vast shoal
Better pay is always nice.
main thicket
@smoky ferry There is if you're good unlike the majority of applicants
smoky ferry
im thinking about transitioning actually
I have just quit my dayjob and have one month salary, which can last me 3 months of learning maybe
hopefully there are remote options
main thicket
A solid data science skillset in 3 months would be hard
smoky ferry
what differentiates a data science guy from a machine learning engineer?
havent looked into it yet
but from the sound of it, data sci is boring and machine learning guys make the impact
main thicket
On the other hand, data scientists are the ones doing the machine learning and machine learning engineers are the people building the application around the machine learning the data scientists do
decent summary https://medium.com/@tomaszdudek/but-what-is-this-machine-learning-engineer-actually-doing-18464d5c699
(also describes data scientists)
Data scientists exist to do machine learning (among other stuff). Others exist to put their machine learning to use
vapid jay
how did you guys get your jobs, did you just apply online thru the company's website
im seening alot of got a job after 300 applications on reddit
i might be headed down that route
tawdry remnant
found listings on glassdoor
disclaimer: that was for internships, which then turned to a job offer
vapid jay
applied through company site and got in
out of how many
got in to first one rofl
1/1 the dream
vast shoal
A friend introduced me for my old job. My new one I got through a recruiter.
vapid jay
where do you guys live and how strong were your resumes for a grad
tawdry remnant
scotland, interned every summer
vapid jay
explains a lot
vast shoal
I'm in Sweden. I had a masters in CS and I had been working part-time as a dev for like a year while studying.
vapid jay
explains a lot
ashen latch
Do you have any good CV example written in LaTex?
limber rampart
Overleaf have a bunch of examples you can check out https://www.overleaf.com/gallery/tagged/cv
You can look at the source code to get an idea of how to make your own (or just fill one of them with your own content)
ashen latch
@main thicket please send me
main thicket
Sent
solemn valley
@main thicket can I have a copy too?
dusty cobalt
So I’m currently a front end web dev but have noticed a lot of jobs seem to require design skills for their front end roles. I can’t design to save my life so I’ve been learning (and enjoying it) Python. I know this is a broad question but what type of jobs are python developers getting?
I know the data science world is huge but it seems like that is hard to break into without a college degree.
main thicket
seems to be a lot of backend if discounting all the stuff that's sort of limited to people with degrees (data science/machine learning, scientific computing, etc). then again, a lot of all languages is nowadays backend stuff in general
if you're not really into backend stuff either, another language might be better suited for the different platforms like desktop (C, C++, C#, etc), mobile (Java, Kotlin, Swift), etc
vapid jay
I like doing that backend
dusty cobalt
Don’t have any issues with backend, just haven’t done much with it yet
What type of backend work is done in python?
That sounds like such a stupid question haha
main thicket
backend is just a general term for logic that talks to a website frontend
it could be essentially anything
dusty cobalt
Do people make apis in python or not usually
solemn valley
building APIs in python is a very common (and using flask django or any other popular webframework) quite an easy task to accomplish
dusty cobalt
I’ve been looking into Django
shy pollen
Use flask for apis
Django is suited for medium sized websites
Flask is for small or large (can be modified to a better degree)
vapid jay
how would you guys send an email to the owner of a 30+ person software company asking for an internship
i sent one to one of the project managers, he said they might be looking for interns and he passed to info the the owner
"I'll forward your information to the owner. I believe we are looking for some interns too, so you'll likely hear back from us soon."
8 days have passed
hmm, theres a lot of states that are hiring everyone
but i dont wanna move
vast shoal
Just explain who you are and that the manager was supposed to forward your info, and ask politely if the owner has an update on that yet.
No need to make it complicated, being polite and to the point should be fine.
(If for whatever reason it isn't, it's probably a toxic work environment anyway)
vast shoal
If for whatever reason being polite and to the point isn't acceptable.
But it's pretty much guaranteed to be.
Just saying, you have nothing to lose.
So no need to be anxious about how to phrase your email.
vapid jay
hmm they have like 4 interns but they're marketing
theres one tech dude thats my age doing web dev
karmic sun
wish me luck, counter-offering/negotiating my promotion salary with my company in a few min
wanton holly
good luck!
cinder belfry
i've heard that most people who accept a counteroffer end up leaving or being pushed out within a couple years
maybe if you were up for a promotion anyway it's different but idk
karmic sun
they're underpaying me a lot already, and offered me a promotion at a salary well under market value, and i've already brought tons of value in proven time savings to the work already
so i'm meeting and presenting my value with a time study and avg market value for the city. I'm ok with leaving within a few yrs too, this place is horribly toxic and my "promotion" is them creating a brand new position just for me as the sole developer of our company. So 0 career growth and i plan on leaving anyways. But if they give me a decent competitive salary compared to the market i might actually consider staying
oh well. If it screws me over I'm already job searching and applying anyways. Have already interviewed 3 places. Got 1 other offer but the job was not entirely what I was looking for
will let you know the result of it
frigid whale
Hey guys what do you generally write on python job application letters? About skills (like modules etc)?
tidal fiber
What opportunities will i have access to with a high understanding of Python?
main thicket
Relevant. Python is only a tool. It is what you make of it
Python in of itself isn't what you should focus on, what you can do with it is
vernal lily
turing complete languages can in theory all do the same taks
*tasks
the differences lie in speed, ecosystem, syntax, existing libs etc
but on the face of it, a C# dev, python dev and node dev can all do the same things
hollow mantle
The only "mission critical" applications that Python interpreters aren't great at atm is game dev
vernal lily
"mission critical" and "fast" are different things that aren't always related
hollow mantle
That's incorrect. CPython is resource hungry and slow
That's not correct either, it's highly dependant on the application
I like this example
Shows the JIT library Numba out-performing C++ and Rust which is pretty impressive
Not entirely, but my point was that Python is very flexible because it's interpreted.
So it depends on how you implement it
I'm not familiar with node enough to make any arguements for it :p
vernal lily
node can use Web Assembly modules that are very close to native speed
there's also ASM.js which is a lot faster than regular JS
plus just like python node can drop down into C/C++/Rust when needed
pretty much any big ecosystem will have ways to speed things up 🤷
there isn't a Pypy for node though
JS is already JIT compiled by V8 anyway 😄
next big thing in JS is this: https://github.com/denoland/deno
Deno is a full replacement for Node, made by the creator of Node
its faster, Rust implementation 😄 and uses Typescript by default
C# doesn't need any special implementation for speed, since idiomatic C# these days can be extremely close to C++ speed. C# can even do manual memory management if needed.
Pypy is great because its zero effort
they stuck Pygame into pypy and got a 3000% speed increase
full Django runs fine on pypy too apparently
some python devs on reddit say they don't even use Cpython anymore, they pypy everything
ah Haskell I'm trying to learn that 😄
hollow mantle
For larger projects I can understand, but I dunno about ALWAYS using pypy. It's slower than cpython for small tasks
vernal lily
ah I didn't realise I thought it was always faster
hollow mantle
Yeah, it takes a bit to ramp up that JIT
vernal lily
oh yeah like the JVM warmup time 😂 😂
what Pypy needs
is what the JVM does
at first it interprets, and then gradually JIT compiles more and more code
its like a hybrid of interpreter and JIT compiler
TBH we just need Jython back
Jython was great
vapid jay
How did u guys become an expert in python
vernal lily
I'm better at talking about languages than I am at writing them
in general with programming, the more I use a language the better I get
it pretty much scales linearly with time
vapid jay
i forget
vernal lily
trying out lots of libs/modules helps
if you play around in numpy/scipy/matplotlib you can get good pretty fast
so long as you know some stats already
similar for basic Flask app
main thicket
@hollow mantle Shouldnt conflate real time and fast. JIT itself has a burdern that makes it not real time
In general, stuff that is running on a full OS is not real time unless it's an OS designed to be real time
vernal lily
what does real time mean?
vernal lily
thanks
main thicket
tl;dr it generally requires low latency, immediate computation that isnt paused midway through due to some random ass OS task schedular
vapid jay
Someone told me to never include references in a resume unless asked, is that accurate?
vapid jay
@vapid jay I would not include them just out of respect for my references information since you will most likely be sending them out to/though multiple channels. You also do not need to include "References Upon Request" on your resume.
This is a fairly standard global practice
Got it, thanks. That frees up 4 lines for me to try to sell myself
dont over do it mate
clear and concise wins over fluff
even though you ARE a bunny
That I am 😉
got a github/lab @vapid jay
Yes, although I'm now waiting to put all of my projects on there until I sort out how I'm going to handle the fact that commits publicize my email
well dont use your personal email for your repos 🤷
That's what I'll probably have to do, it's just unfortunate because I wanted my github email to match my business email
do you run a business
Nope
I was asking if @vapid jay had a github bc I wanted to look at it
If I listed off my project topics in my "skills" section would that work or should I actually try to make room for a "projects" section? I'm not a full CS major for whatever that's worth. Also Jordan there's literally nothing on it right now because of the whole email thing
Yes, for sure
@gloomy lagoon what's your bg in
in programming
bg = background
Ask this man what time it is and he'll tell you how to build a clock
mostly languages and projects
Impressive. Any interest in a a hobby project to take your mind off of all that BiG DaTA
I want to build a location application with ID cards, QR Scanner
targeting schools, jails, hospitals
patient, student, inmate location
sketch that out real quick today
nah
I'm on like 5 teams
building shit all the time
everything we do is open source
execution is everthing
vernal lily
how monetize open source though
vapid jay
People get too worked up over contracts, patents, lawyers, etc. Before you start putting your name on shit legally you better make sure its good to go
what did you guys do after graduation, to prepare for the job market
I'm self taught
np @gloomy lagoon
everyone is self taught
I def wouldn't be a smart ass to potential employers. NEXT!
jk
i wish i was a smart ass
best thing to do is build a portfolio of projects and work on teams
once you have a few half assed projects to demo you'll get a job
i have two good ones
a database with a webpage that lets you pull with sql quries
and a delivery android app
I mean if you're just looking for a jr. role shouldnt be too hard
im looking for an internship
how old r u?
22
i just graduated
man fuck that
apply
r u a girl
nope
pulsar drum
You should have looked for internships while you were still in school...
vapid jay
Im an e-thot
i know
i also should have done a lot of other stuff
and not so much of other stuff
i could have been posting on github for the past 4 years
and doing side projects
get a Wordpress job
srsly
wordpress
hahaha
graduates should have a chance to get some professional experience
before ajob
I bet this kid is a piece of work IRL
what
lol
no but you did
earnest knot
@vapid jay Avoid using that word in this server.
vapid jay
haha
that was quick
o.o
Anyone have any first-hand experience with cover letters? Are these indeed specific to each job I apply for?
YES
they need to be specific.. You need to explain your motivation to apply for the position and why you're best suited
I'm assuming 1 page exactly for these as well?
yes
1 page
go through page 13 here..
it lists what you need to cover in the cover letter..
Anyway.. there are no examples here for engineering degrees, but you'll get the general idea
and come back if you need someone to review your cover letter
Thanks ^_^
dull snow
howdy yall
vapid jay
this might sound dumb but if you are applying for a parttime non serious side job, wouldnt it be clever to send ur mails from a university mail address? 🤔
or am i thinking too deep here 🤔
tawdry remnant
what is your logic with that?
vapid jay
Calculus by Spivak, some Statistics textbook (need advice), some discrete maths book (need advice), Code by Petzold, SICP, K&R, Algos book (need advice), Data structures book (need advice), best practices book (modular/readable code, please recommend a book)
self-teaching CS and wanted to just get a decent maths background
delicate dawn
Any advice on the following:
Is it better or worse or makes no difference, if u just left uni and r looking for ur first job (in like software dev for example )
Most notably in the UK if not London
@ me please ty
tawdry remnant
@delicate dawn by left do you mean like actually left with no degree, or graduated?
vapid jay
updated list, talked to some guys in another discord
maths
- Calc by Spivak
- mitopencourseware discrete class
3.Linear Algebra Done Wrong - CLRS
CS
- Code by Petzold
- SICP
- C Programming Language, Elements of Style
- Art Of Computer Programming
yeah fair enough
I'm mostly looking to self-teach while in Navy
so like 4-6 years to complete this shit
obtuse flower
vapid jay
enlisted
so no rate will cover this stuff at all really
Which is kind of a good thing because then it'll be enjoyable to study this instead of feeling like work
delicate dawn
@tawdry remnant I mean graduated
My bad soz
tawdry remnant
so what is your actual question? like what are you wondering about?
delicate dawn
Is it better or worse to join a large company like google etc
Or a smaller lesser known company?
taking into account like salary, facilities and like recognition
delicate dawn
lmao
tawdry remnant
its hard to say which is better/worse
delicate dawn
just get some years of experience then u will get there
tawdry remnant
it really is up to you and what youre looking for
tawdry remnant
like my friends who went to smaller companies get paid less, but on the other hand they are more involved in the companies direction which they love
tawdry remnant
ive interned at both ends (although not quite as large as google etc)
delicate dawn
Niceee
tawdry remnant
and idk the perks and benefits and name recognition that comes with a larger company are nice
vapid jay
did u intern as a student
tawdry remnant
but i also know people who went into really corporate jobs at large companies and hate it
delicate dawn
Understandable
tawdry remnant
so it really depends on you and the position :p
vapid jay
i didnt get to do any internships as a student
tawdry remnant
st andrews
delicate dawn
Middle of nowhere 😂
tawdry remnant
indeed 😛 but super great uni
tawdry remnant
no problem, i think the main takeaway should be that its entirely up to you and what you value, interning definitely helps figure out what you like doing and what you expect
vapid jay
big money
vapid jay
pay is the best
tawdry remnant
and name recogniition when you move on i imagine is good
mind if i ask which FAANG?
havent heard great things about Amazon either
although sometimes its a case of taking what you can get :p
tawdry remnant
Firebase (a database) bit condescending? idk
tawdry remnant
nice! was considering applying till i got my job offer
M
if you know what that could be
vapid jay
microsoft
vapid jay
im drawing blanks
tawdry remnant
mozilla
tawdry remnant
Mozilla is heaven for me
@vapid jay so this is just personal opinion from perspective of non recruiters, but most tech recruiters are tech literate, at least the ones ive met
tawdry remnant
I personally don't see any glaring issues
pay is very good for new grads
its the TC thats probably lower in the long run i imagine
like my FB friend is getting 115k worth of stocks over 4 years as a grad
tawdry remnant
@gloomy lagoon what dep do you work in?
vapid jay
i just graduated but im sure i wont pass most interviews in the bay
i am not good at ctci and leet problems yet
tawdry remnant
what sort of companies are you applying to? a whole range?
vapid jay
internship/junior
im super late tho
i dont mind going to boston, va, dc, md
i dont wanna go to socal
tawdry remnant
ye people here at least apply in jan
vapid jay
yes
but i didnt know shit
then i learned everything i could these past couple months
after i bombed my first interview
been going on cs careers everyday
thread'
F/G?
tawdry remnant
facebook google
vapid jay
TC?
vapid jay
i know what they are just not the acro
tawdry remnant
and ye the people i was working with were just insanely talented, felt really out of my depth there talking to some people :p
vapid jay
my audio 3.5mm is bent so it keeps popping out
striking
i need some of those autism smarts
vapid jay
so u work at facebook?
vapid jay
better than mine
tawdry remnant
ye i understand
vapid jay
no one wants to dox me
tawdry remnant
dyou also avoid linking yourself to your GH?
vapid jay
or hire me
tawdry remnant
youll find something eventually :p just gotta practice the interviews
tawdry remnant
i can imagine
vapid jay
so r u a mid level se
at a FAANG
just working at a FAANG already gives u a good image
tropic basalt
lol the only impressive thing on my github profile is security bug bounty hunter
vernal lily
security bug bounty hunter sounds awesome
vernal lily
keep going 😃
main thicket
@delicate dawn I'll mirror what @gloomy lagoon said. In my experience, a FAANG is in general better than a random startup but might be worse than special specific startups. I know a startup that pays data science people significantly more than FAANGs, all in cash, and the stress is less and whatnot.
On the other hand, your FAANG might have more interesting and diverse problems to solve and a treehouse on campus :P
tawdry remnant
Ye I think a big appeal with a larger company is lateral movement, if for some reason you don't like what you do, there may be a chance to move to another department/field
delicate dawn
ahhh thank you all for your advise, my appreciated
vapid jay
Can you be a python web developer without JavaScript
limber rampart
Yes, broadly, JS is a popular choice for front-end (code executed on the user's computer), and Python is a popular choice for back-end (code executed on the server)
I think all web devs know at least some JS though
vapid jay
What is Django than
vernal lily
well there are two reasons
firstly people learn JS because they want to build the front end of the website's functionality
secondly some people prefer node (server-side js)
main thicket
Python runs on the server, JS runs on the browser
If you want the page to be very dynamic or work independent of the server, you need to use JS
In general, your JS will worry about animations and how the UI works and how the page is built
And if it needs more information, it will make a request to the server which is using Django
vapid jay
But if node js can run on server. What’s point of learning python to web develop
vernal lily
because some people prefer python
main thicket
not everyone likes js
vernal lily
there is choice
vapid jay
But don’t u gotta learn js to even do web development
main thicket
also python packages for the application might be better
vernal lily
IMO PostgreSQL is good choice
main thicket
but mongodb is webscale
vernal lily
stoic nebula
back-end is where it's at 😛
main thicket
Why do webdev when you can do robotics and AI stuff
vernal lily
webdev fun
abstract iron
It really can be
fair moon
okay
vapid jay
Hit the front end and backend
vernal lily
ayy full stack
vapid jay
Should i put that my family escape from a genocide in my cover letter for sympathy points or something?
Or is it completely irrelevant
brazen bone
Unless you can make a compelling case for why it's relevent, then don't put it in
Otherwise employers will think you are just trying to win sympathy points
main thicket
Bring it up when they ask one of those dumb generic interview questions instead
Probably beats the other answers for "When was a time you faced hardship and what did you do" or whatever other BS they might ask
main thicket
Tats what makes it good
vernal lily
intel are you in school or college?
I started out bad at math when I was in school
but I got good in time for college
its definitely possible
main thicket
People aren't inherently bad at maths lol
vernal lily
when I was 15 I was getting fractions and percentages wrong
now I'm doing europe equivalent of like calc 2/3
you can definitely change
green sinew
To be fair fractions and percentages is harder than advanced calculus
@vernal lily
xd
main thicket
I refuse to believe that, having tutored a lot of people that were "bad" at maths
vapid jay
Did any of them take a looong time to get good
main thicket
Yea. But it wasn't because they were inherently bad, it was because they were behind.
They learnt at approximately the same speed most people do
vernal lily
with good teaching
most people progress through math at a similar rate TBH
but teaching quality varies hugely
unkempt ferry
^^^
it's all about having a good teacher. math can certainly be complex, but as long as you have someone that is able and willing to explain the parts you need explained the way your brain needs them to be, you'll learn
jaunty steppe
A teacher that both likes the subject, is passionate about it, and is at least okay at teaching is what works for me.
vapid jay
@vernal lily last class was geometry I took
upper ember
Math is great because its not all memory
You can learn the foundation
And work up from there
Of you do advanced maths is a lot easier since its just a continuation of the foundation and you know not just that it work but WHY it worksp
whole bobcat
I wanna modify a Nerf gun with the raspberry pi or arduino using python, and i wanna change some things
i also want to make a cheap rc car more better
and with sensors
using python
main thicket
And that's completely unrelated to careers
whole bobcat
well it is
main thicket
Would probably be better suited for electrical engineering if you're more interested in modifying
whole bobcat
what's the difference sorry for my english
main thicket
Mechanical engineering focus on mechanical things. Electrical engineers focus on electrical things. It's easier to modify mechanical things than electrical things, hence my recommendation
vivid dock
@hot timber We do currently not have any system for hiring, and do not allow it because of that.
vapid jay
Besides python itself and its libraries, what should I learn to get started in the IT field?
version control and testing
software design patterns
craggy wave
Professional interpersonal skills won't hurt either, including being able to communicate clearly to relative laypeople.
vapid jay
I'm more or less good at commumicating. I just like coding and feel like switching my work to it
Version control is something I haven't touched yet, and I'll look into software design patterns too
vernal lily
Networking stuff like TCP HTTP websockets
vapid jay
Alright, got myself some topics to research about, thanks
uncut tulip
Hhh im going into networking soon );
tawdry remnant
enjoy, networking is super interesting! but lots of content
vernal lily
here is best free book ever https://beej.us/guide/bgnet/html/single/bgnet.html#twotypes
uncut tulip
Thanks, is that a book for networking?
Holy
It is
O.o
im def saving that
Umm one question, if i were to get into it would i need some background knowledge on any other language
I know one thing is that im going to probably read over html and c++
Sooner
Idk if that would help
vernal lily
depends what you want to do
vapid jay
i live CA, i m going to apply for jobs in RI, should i mention i have family in RI
solemn valley
at least in germany it is common to mention wether you have a family or not idk for you though
vapid jay
ok