career-advice

[fringe sphinx]

Well, maybe not. He wrote that more as "here's how we built palantir". It's just one take on how to approach entrepreneurship.

[near ocean]

Cause that to me sounds a lot like going from 0.99 to 1

[fringe sphinx]

Nah, it's more about: go build something that you can sell to a small audience, and worry about the big picture later.

the example is palantir, where they landed a contract with city of la (iirc).

[smoky quest]

that's a common way to get (pre-)seed funds

[near ocean]

Yea thats great and all, let me get on that with a small family loan of a million dollars

[smoky quest]

look also at angel investing

[mighty spire]

For start ups it isnt that crazy getting a million

[fringe sphinx]

That's not really his success story, or elons. His success story is they hit the jackpot with paypal.

[near ocean]

The case with these ultra rich dudes is they never really started pre-ultra rich, their advice doesnt match the average software dev experience

[smoky quest]

also the book is not about how peter thiel started. It's advice about how do startups

[fringe sphinx]

I'd say forget about the origin story. They made bank out of pure luck. It's what they've done since that's instructive.

[near ocean]

What does he know about startups if he needs a million dollars to get them started

[smoky quest]

The value is not in his first startup, but in the thousands of startups in which he has invested

[near ocean]

Yea its easy to do that when youre already made, whats the advice here? Be born into money?

[smoky quest]

The point is that he has seen how thousands of other startups have started and succeeded or failed.
That has nothing to do with his personal journey. That is not even related to the book or point

[fringe sphinx]

Well, chill the hostility for a moment. There is a reasonable point made: some people view entrepreneurship as about building the next Insta or Google or OpenAI or WhatsApp. The thesis of zero to one is that there's a different take which is starting with a smaller audience and more focused customer-centric selling.

So, separate that idea from the man.

[mighty spire]

When you have a lot of money you can pay the rigth people to make the desitions for you, that is why having a lot of money and being good for hiring is enougth to get a ton more money, and that doesnt mean that their paths are useless only that they had more sources and care into each step they took. Independently of them their paths matter at least for the advice they got

[smoky quest]

having a lot of money affords you to make a lot of mistakes to learn from

[near ocean]

Is that literally not what he did with paypal

[fringe sphinx]

Well, also, VCs often forget all their failures and remember the successes. Like degenerate gamblers.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, zero to one is definitely not about building the next paypal.

(or maybe, but not in the same go-to-market way)

[smoky quest]

Look at it like 2 separate things:

• How he got started
• What he has learned investing and talking to thousands of startups

The book is about the learning from that second bullet. He could have started uber rich or uber pool, it does not have any relevance with the second part.

[fringe sphinx]

And, incidentally, he famously didn't invest in uber.

[mighty spire]

That is kind of wrong, i didnt invest in bit coin and that doesnt mean i am a bad investor it only means that i didnt see the value in that case

Or it is like saying you are a bad artist because you made a bad piece

[ivory elbow]

that's what a career is tho

[ivory elbow]

Generally they always had immense amounts of social capital and the rest is a myth

Bill Gates is a good example

[near ocean]

Its a career, its not python or even tech related

[ivory elbow]

I think there's something to be said about investing during ZIRP or near ZIRP conditions too

[mortal wedge]

A good analogy I heard is that when it comes to starting your own business, it's a bit like going to one of those games at the carnival, the throwing darts at balloons one. Some people may have a chance for a single throw. It may work out it may not. The people who are wealthy can essentially sit there and keep throwing until they hit.

Everyone else? We're working the carnival.

[ivory elbow]

The only way to get rich past a certain point is to get loans and invest them over and over

[near ocean]

Thiel is rich enough to own the carnival

[ivory elbow]

That's what Thiel did and the requisite step to get those loans is to farm immense amounts of social capital through gatekeeping instititutions (ivy league is more about socioeconomic status than actual value) or be born into it

They'll take a token amount of poors to seem like this is not what the system is i.e. JD Vance

[mortal wedge]

It's one of the reasons I think, when people talk about struggling to find work in this economy, that the advice "just start your own business" is at best tone deaf and at worst completely divorced from reality.

[ivory elbow]

Let them eat cake

[near ocean]

Not good advice if you want to keep your head

[ivory elbow]

I think the other part is the more you trace this back the more obvious inherited social capital making up the difference when economic capital was acquired becomes

That is you can look poor but you had very good conditions otherwise, i.e. the unfairness of America's FAFSA college scholarships/loans programs are

The Ivy League admission system requiring hobbies only rich kids could participate in, only taking sob stories or elite individuals to legitimize itself, so on

[solid parcel]

God, I despise hearing that advice. I see people give it so glibly without the slightest inkling of how difficult what they're proposing is. Adding 'just' to something does not magically make it easy.

[ivory elbow]

State schools are pretty progressive institutions tho tbf

[mortal wedge]

While I think capitalism and society have many issues that bear further discussion, we probably are diverging too far from this channel's topic

[ivory elbow]

I think hanging out with rich guys is good career advice tho

[mortal wedge]

Unironically, having rich/connected friends is a good career move

I did some contract work, but not with any major companies. My friend at a company with web precense threw my a minor contract role so I can have an actual company name connected to my recent contracting period/unemployment gap

[ivory elbow]

Or if you can't find rich people find people with lots of social capital in a field and wait for it to transfer over to economic capital

[mortal wedge]

There is a balance somewhere though. Some people have bankrupted themselves trying to fake it until you make it with the rich crowd

[ivory elbow]

I think as AI begins to make it harder and harder to trust degrees people will revert to nepotism yeah

I was going to refer someone I had met and then realized all his projects were copied or ai generated

Also the people I knew incl. myself from lower socioeconomic backgrounds had a lot of laundered socioeconomic capital in the form of free time to learn tech as kids

[mortal wedge]

It's something people need to be aware of. With the increased volume of applicants and the increased homogeneity of resumes thanks to AI, the ability to discriminate between applicants is plummeting and the time they have to do so is decreasing. Hiring funnels are slow and a lot more vibe based these days. And that's in addition to going more strongly for easy exclusionary criteria such as job gaps or lack of whatever kind of degree they're looking for.

[ivory elbow]

I did homework for kids during covid to make money prior to becoming a dev and I'm skeptical of degrees in general atp

I don't have a bachelors in CS but a few friends of mine cheated through the entire thing with LLMs and I know a prof who talks about it frequently

It basically reverts to the reality which is that the economy is about convincing someone to give you stuff

[mortal wedge]

Academia has been rocked by LLMs. I've followed it a bit. It's an arms race between LLM detectors and AI humanizers and learning is losing. There were always ways to cheat in college (bribes/w.e.) but now we do seem to be closing in on you only learning if you want to learn.

[ivory elbow]

Ya the most I cheated on was notes during exams. The focus on grades is also bad for the system and students because you look subpar if you don't cheat due to the increased workload that it normalizes

The funny part is that this actually leads to more of a demand for deep CS knowledge but simultaneously disincentivizes acquiring it

[ivory elbow]

Then you have the CEO hype class warfare psyop that no knowledge profession will be needed poisoning the minds of children

Some kid turns on the news and sees Alex Karp or Jensen Huang talking he'll avoid higher education entirely because why become a debt slave just to get automated

I think we've recreated endentured servitude but in a more abstract sense where your unpaid higher education & college loans don't even lead to a guaranteed job to pay them off

[near ocean]

Maybe it'll be a good thing if colleges collapse because of llms, the disconnect between what you learn in CS degrees and what you do on the job is too great

Governments and corporations should do more to promote and enable apprenticeships for software dev

[ivory elbow]

I think traditional CS degrees are pretty good but they need to have an Os/Networking and then final project class

[near ocean]

Traditional CS degrees are maths degrees yet theyre essentially required in the industry for any and (basically) all roles

[sand patio]

don't most CS programs have this already?

[sand patio]

idk, at most I take...four math classes for my degree?

[ivory elbow]

I think this is good in a way because then they aren't tied to the profession

[sand patio]

and two of those are university requirements

[near ocean]

But they are

They are tied to the profession because the profession requires them

[sand patio]

or actually, 5 - calc i, ii, iii, discrete, linear

[ivory elbow]

My point is a CS degree is a bit fungible

I would hate to see the industry revert to IT certifications that ossify and force you to remain in your current role as opposed to a general purpose degree where I can leave tech at any time

[sand patio]

and won't most swe jobs be fine with cs-adjacent degrees?

I've got friends going EE, CE, AI, SWE, IT, and an assortment of other degrees all applying for SWE jobs

[ivory elbow]

A lot of white collar jobs are quite happy to get anyone with a quantitative background

[sand patio]

and after next semester I'm done with math courses

[ivory elbow]

I guess what I'm getting at is I've spoken with Germans who did software apprenticeships and they are generally far less skilled than american cs graduates

[near ocean]

I've had the opposite experience

[ivory elbow]

Like I think you do need a year of full time study or so on discrete math/dsa/os/networking/machine arch

[sand patio]

what do you think cs degree programs are missing?

[ivory elbow]

I'm only including ppl from like top 50 cs programs tbf

[near ocean]

The few apprenticeship people i've talked to are far better engineers than other multiple degree holders

[sand patio]

yeah everyone I know actually getting jobs are fairly cracked

[ivory elbow]

I know there are really bad schools and people cheating today but the Cs degree curriculum is generally alright

[ivory elbow]

Btw I don't have a bachelors I only have an AS CS I'm just saying I think the textbooks and subjects were very useful. You can self study all of it, too.

[near ocean]

Its way too expensive and drains a lot of energy and time when you already have to do so much extracurriculars to get a job

[ivory elbow]

I like the CS curriculum I really dislike American higher education

[near ocean]

If it was "do degree, job basically guaranteed" then sure
But you have to do so much more, unlike a lot other career paths and degree choices

[sand patio]

yeah I think the expensive part is just a consequences of the American education system. I'm not sure what else I'd add as far as the curriculum itself is concerned

[ivory elbow]

Yes I agree I'm just saying a legitimate CS curriculum like actually working through textbooks on calc 3, lin alg, dsa, discrete math, networking, os, machine arch is very valuable

[sand patio]

I mean, isn't that kind of true for everything now? I can't think of any career where getting through just a four year degree program guarantees you a job

[near ocean]

My sister is an accountant, she had to do ACA and that was it, no multistage tech interviews, no portfolio or sideprojects required
My lawyer friends have had similar career paths

[ivory elbow]

ya cuz universities destroyed their social capital by having too high of graduation rates

[near ocean]

Yea so it might be good in the long term if higher education, for software at least, kinda declines

[ivory elbow]

I agree I just mean the curriculum is goated

[near ocean]

Eh thats a case by case thing

[peak halo]

Graduation, or admission?
They should only admit people who are capable of completing the program.

[ivory elbow]

Could argue both but ultimately you can't dilute the social capital or they require nepotism/filtering at the hiring level

[peak halo]

Admitting people with the expectation that some percent of them will be incapable of completing it would be predatory

[sand patio]

the curriculums are fairly standardized here, at least until you get to electives

[sand patio]

isn't that kind of what weed out classes are?

[ivory elbow]

This is why people have to cheat in America, too

[peak halo]

Yes and I stand by what I said.

[sand patio]

fair enough

[near ocean]

It happens when you run higher education as a business

[ivory elbow]

Imagine being such an idiot you don't commit academic dishonesty to graduate with a degree you're 40k in debt for

Like the college will leave you a debt slave if you don't manage to graduate

[smoky quest]

there are always people who don't understand what is college/uni, change their mind, make bad life decisions, etc.

[sand patio]

to be fair graduating isn't a super high bar

(replying to baz)

[smoky quest]

if you have to resort to academic dishonesty to graduate, you still have a quite sizeable problem

[ivory elbow]

Then the opportunity cost is like 3-4 years

[sand patio]

it's like what, a 2.0 to graduate I think

[sand patio]

you're also getting unique opportunities in uni

[ivory elbow]

Sure but my point is that academic dishonesty has been so normalized it's in excess of 30% of the class now according to a prof I know

[near ocean]

Youre better off not graduating if youre going to do so with shit grades

[sand patio]

not really

[ivory elbow]

I was a CS tutor for a bit and we caught 30% of the class copying off cheg prior to AI

[sand patio]

a good chunk of the people I know here don't mention their GPA at all on their resumes

(i don't either, fwiw, but that was kind of out of necessity because I didn't have a calculated GPA until I finished my first semester)

[smoky quest]

that's how I know they have bad GPA

[near ocean]

The advice usually is to not mention it if its bad

[ivory elbow]

I still stand by degrees mostly being a way to legitimize regressive rule rather than a legitimate progressive instititution at the ivy league level

[sand patio]

they're still fairly successful

[smoky quest]

It is what you make of it

[ivory elbow]

The state level institutions are somewhat about educating the masses but the ivy league is more of an epstein type thing

[sand patio]

i think it's much worse to just not have a degree in the first place, than to have one with a bad GPA

[ivory elbow]

They basically hoard the intellectual and social capital of society yes, taking people who would have accomplished stuff anyway and attributing it to their institution

Then you can so oh he's a hard worker he went to Stanford or whatever and not look at the fact Bill Gates' parents were insanely rich anyway

[smoky quest]

wat

Being rich is helpful, but you still have to put the time and effort

[peak halo]

I only had one interviewer ask me my GPA, and he never asked for proof of what I said.

[sand patio]

all of that aside, there's plenty of prestigious institutions that aren't private Ivy League universities

[ivory elbow]

My point is this legitimzies the ruling class whereas a certification or exam don't i.e. a system such as China (which has its own issues)

When the working class becomes too good at the meritocratic system the elites create i.e. the SAT they simply stop measuring it or start to weight it based on various criteria to remain performatively plebian

The system is not actually designed for an intelligent or hardworking working class individual to be able to compete with the upper socioeconomic strata, hence legacy student preference at Ivy league

The institution and business of university was initially established to legitimize this

[near ocean]

Kinda of getting away from the channel topic

[ivory elbow]

Ya some of them are more legit in their admittance criteria

[near ocean]

It would be interesting to see how the majority of software jobs would work if theyre treated as trades

[sand patio]

it's not like Ivy League institutions are completely disregarding merit and/or completely relying on legacy applications

[ivory elbow]

Nah but if they did it would reveal the facade

[smoky quest]

kinda already like that with bootcamps/self taught

[ivory elbow]

To bring it back to jobs you need to abuse the fact you're farming social capital or the degree is quite useless

[near ocean]

Theyre not doing well though

[sand patio]

there's also public schools that are as competitive as the ivys ad well

[mighty spire]

Some of the points are actually interesting but it feels more like a phylosofical conversation that a carear advice discusion

[ivory elbow]

kinda is more economic yeah

[near ocean]

I want to see more apprenticeships, theyre very competitive atm

[smoky quest]

yep. I can pay a fraction of the price for someone to do some fullstack since there is no need for the fancy math there

cheap and low skill labor is great for throughput. For expertise, it's more expensive

[ivory elbow]

Kinda goes back to what I said about the CS curriculum being good

Your labor is more fungible and you can enter specialized niches within CS and out of it in a way bootcampers can't, also bootcampers often lack underlying knowledge and hit a wall

[mighty spire]

Yeah that is why i kind of want to go into readearch, ignoring my actual personal interests. I feel like there could be some interesting market shifts. As well most faang work that i heat about is more about reasearch related roles

[near ocean]

Trades arent exactly low skilled labour and theyre also not exactly badly paid
Its the working conditions that drive people away

[smoky quest]

they do not require the same skills in terms of abstract thinking and advanced skills

[ivory elbow]

I think in the USA it's especially expensive to pursue trades because you'll end up sick and society discards you entirely

[mighty spire]

Now a days american people in the trades is a pretty big concern and the US military complex is having some important demands for trades that isnt fullfiled, there is a ton of money there so i wouldnt expect bad conditions nor bad pay

[smoky quest]

USA is also more loose on degrees and accepting of self taught

[ivory elbow]

US military has that problem too where they'll destroy your body and discard you, GI

I would've been a paramedic but they will throw you away after the 24 hour shifts destroy your body hence im in tech

[near ocean]

Compared to software dev, any working conditions trades have however good, are most likely worse

[ivory elbow]

So the USA would have to pay disporportionately well to tradesmen to incentivize it, compared to say most of Europe

But it's still not a bargain that would make much sense when the economic situation can change quickly

[fickle bramble]

Not just sick, but degrading your body from the physical abuse involved in it

For the most part, it is only recommended for young men who are physically fit and can afford to take the physical exertion, but it isn't for everyone. There are such thing as disabilities that make it nearly impossible to even attempt the "rugged American individual" ideal to do trades

[ivory elbow]

Ya there are some good videos on lifetime savings/investments that go over how most of your money will be destroyed by being an endentured servant to the educational industrial complex (college loans) and then destroyed via end of life healthcare in the USA

[fickle bramble]

The only older and experienced individuals that can afford to keep doing it are those training said young men and working in the office most often

[ivory elbow]

I knew a guy like that who went to my MMA gym and talked about his workers as "Mexicans" that he would illegally hire

brvtal trvth nvke is that money is made up your health is the only thing that's kinda real

[fickle bramble]

Why yes, there is some fulfillment to see your labor to go into something very tangible, and that is certainly why some physically fit young men and women do that over the corporate office that hardly see the results of their work

But that is also why I am learning Python in my spare time out of work, to save money to keep the debt to a minimum before I go to a European country with highly subsidized education, but I don't want to get into too much details about the politics of it when it runs a lot in the background for said decision

[mortal wedge]

Is it weird that I can't wait for my next big role even if for no other reason then I can finally move confidently to a 2 page resume instead of trying to stretch 1.4 pages into something that looks reasonable on 2 pages

Right now I'm just trimming down to 1 and it's obnoxious

[lilac yoke]

I think resumes are typically 1 page but CVs multiple

[regal axle]

I really need to work on my brag book. Idk why this reminded me of it. But I do such a bad job keeping track of these things.
I should write some nice stuff down

A brag book is a collection of all the good things you have accomplished professionally. It’s a way of keeping track your accolades. Makes it much easier to negotiate raises and also write resumes. Etc etc. and yet ,,, I always forget to do it. Tomorrow! (Too tired to start now. But I’ll start in the morning)

[astral dirge]

I have a problem. I'm stuck. I've watched hundreds of tutorials, all covering the same topics: "Hello World" to "while loops," and so on. But none of them explain modules. I mean, I might sound stupid (and I probably do), but every single project I see uses modules that introduce completely new concepts and functions to Python. I just don't think I can achieve anything without using modules, but what's more, how do I even begin to understand them? Where and how am I supposed to learn these modules that can create such amazing projects?

[spring ivy]

Tbh I realised for internationals it's go big or go home (literally). Small/mid sized companies don't wanna bother with getting international paperwork done even tho it just costs them a lawyer equal to one month salary. Even if u get a job there they won't sponsor u for a while and even if they do, ur chances are worse under the new wage based H1B system.

small/mid sized companies startups literally want offshore Indian workers a lot more than Indians in USA on VISA

The only companies willing to hire u are the tippy top of faang+ (not even IBM, JP Morgan, or C1 hires internationals anymore) or quant

(Maybe some other companies too but yeah)

[spring ivy]

What is a module? 💀

[astral dirge]

Yeah right

[hearty sierra]

A module is simply a file (or multiple files sometimes) that contain code. Many modules come with a standard Python download and can be used by simply importing, and others need to be downloaded through pip. You can also create and import your own modules.

I wouldn't get overwhelmed with the amount of pre-made modules there are out there to use. Instead, work on learning the modules that are applicable to the projects that you want to make. Most modules will have documentation available online along with examples detailing how to properly use them. And as you make more projects, you'll naturally get more familiar with the modules you import, especially if you use the same ones across multiple projects.

[spring ivy]

I genuinely have never heard module I think. Or if I have I forgot

[spring ivy]

Is it just packages? Or different?

[hearty sierra]

Packages can contain multiple modules.

[astral dirge]

Appreciate the advice!

[spring ivy]

I just call those packages/libraries unless I am getting something wrong

[astral dirge]

So youre coding python mostly without modules?

[spring ivy]

Oh ok, like there will be a transformers.py and optimizers.py in pytorch for example, both are separate modules in the same package/library?

[spring ivy]

Nah I am using modules without knowing what they are called I think

[astral dirge]

[spring ivy]

That's kinda the beauty of python, almost everything has a module/package, so u do a quick pip or uv (better), to install stuff so u don't have to code it from scratch. It let's u do stuff super fast. Unlike C where u have to deal with a lot of errors/CMake and flags and whatnot

[hearty sierra]

From what I understand yes. But there is also a way to organize a project directory such that the same module can be spread across multiple files.

[spring ivy]

Hmm ok thanks

I think it helps a lot more to not think of if u are using modules or whatnot, but rather just build and improve a project that u actually care about @astral dirge imo

[hearty sierra]

So okay. Modules are usually single files. Multiple files can be grouped together as a package and treated as a single module. TIL

[spring ivy]

Why is this in career advice tho?

[hearty sierra]

No idea lol

[spring ivy]

fire news, things are looking up for us! 🔥 🔥 (edit: oh nvm this is old news 💀 )

[smoky quest]

nice!
Though not sure it will change anything

[spring ivy]

well its already old news 10/2025 so yeah wont change anything. was already good for us

i thought it was a new confirmation of some sort. mb

[tight apex]

Hey there all, I am currently a data engineer working in field at a relatively boring hold over job, but have an interest in going back to university for a PhD track for some research areas I am interested in regarding CS and the like. Other than emailing faculty and reading current research from the areas of interest, any advice on how to get in touch with people in similar interest areas? I feel kinda old for reapplying to college (bachelors in Software atm), so just not sure how I pivot back to academia

[glacial heart]

This isn't the channel for this ask in #python-discussion or #1035199133436354600

[balmy mural]

I need to do the same. Would also be able to just check it before interviews to get a few talking points in your head in case they ask about you about a feature you worked on that did something. One of my interviews asked me to talk about a feature specifically involving complex business logic and not necessarily complex algorithms or scalability or optimization. So I had to sit and think longer than I would have liked trying to come up with something

[sullen seal]

Hi. I need a teacher please

[peak halo]

Only you can teach yourself, but other people can help you along your way

[leaden jasper]

!clban 1004903939415752834 Advertising/recruiting, not allowed

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @rare beacon permanently.

[sullen seal]

Ok sir.

[fickle bramble]

I personally have taught myself through textbooks, so it is technically having book authors teach me lol

That said, being self taught is unfortunately a skill within itself..

[unique quest]

now i finished the basics

what i do to improve in python

because i want work by python

and i finish python because i want learn javascript

anyone can advice me please ?

[hearty sierra]

Maybe start learning a web development framework like flask while also learning javascript, html and css.

[unique quest]

no, i already learning the python on vs code i just want some advice to become a professional

[hearty sierra]

Depends what kind of professional you're trying to be. Do you want to be a web developer? Full stack, backend, or frontend? Or do you just want to be a software engineering generalist who knows both Python and Javascript?

[calm trout]

There is also Data Science and ML.

[unique quest]

look i just know cyber security and data analyst

[tropic mango]

Hey I have a question is it possible to buy something from Microsoft with python when U have a cc linked to the MC account

[peak halo]

Did Microsoft take over your brain or something?

[fickle bramble]

The best advise is just practice, practice, and more practice, be that with exercises given to you by textbooks, or making your own projects

Remember this principle: "Repetition is the mother of learning"

[unique quest]

i really agree with you

[forest jetty]

hello i just started learning python

[calm trout]

Good Luck!

[late meteor]

You are wlc to the space of programming

[open ivy]

Beginners overestimate themselves. Experts underestimate themselves.

I see that in any skill. Many people think that making enough friends is easy. Nope! Not in the days of billion dollar algorithms stealing all of our attention, that's hard to compete with.

Experts in woodworking think it's easy to build a chair. Not really, not anything more than IKEA at least.

And experts in programming think that it is easy to build abstraction patterns. No it is not, there are so many pitfalls etc!

This makes it harder to assess progress. But if you keep a copy of your older projects than you can see just how far you have gone.

[peak halo]

this seems like another linkedin cross-post, which I don't think contribute to any substantive discussion in this channel.

[open ivy]

Sometimes beginners need a little generic encouragement! That bieng said, for more specific discussions rather than "I am new, hello world" I agree with you.

And this is why for most of us a social media presence isn't that important. It is so enshitiffied! Just get a website instead which for a small fee is ad-free, allows JavaScript, custom formatting, and doesn't put ads and "please log in, please get the app" in your viewers faces.

[peak halo]

if you want to keep posting these, please include a clear hook for how other people can engage with it. As it stands, it seems like you're just posting linkedin-coded shower thoughts.

[open ivy]

Speaking of social media (which LinkedIn is, as it has an Algorithm and likes etc).... have you been using less social media lately because it is 95% "dead internet" these days? No one here seems to be discussing what a good online presence is, it definitely isn't social media (beyond a basic page) but it's not like a website just becomes known all by itself either.

[peak halo]

"social media" now refers to two completely different experiences: one of them are media where you socialize with other people (such as Discord), and the other are delivery mechanisms for attention-farming slop (infinite scroll apps such as instagram).
but that's not the point of this channel.

[open ivy]

Good point. Facebook, X, LinkedIn, Instagram, Reddit. Not Discord. Discord is a chatroom, messages are in chronological order, it isn't visible to the wider world, there is no Algorithm for things going viral.

Generally I use the term "media" to indicate content seen by the outside world and sorted by popularity as that is what newspapers, radio, and TV did back in the day. A chatroom is more like a bar. But the term isn't a precise term.

[real fossil]

k

[surreal lynx]

Up to what point would you consider someone "knowing" a language?
Would it be at the point where they could speak it "fluently"?

[peak halo]

when you don't need to look up a language reference to understand how any given piece of code is being evaluated, even if you don't know what it does.

[vast shoal]

I'd put a language on my CV after I've worked with it on one or more serious projects for maybe a year or two

If it was the main language, or one of the main languages

I think working on something with real world significance puts your knowledge to the test in a way that just studying the language passively doesn't

[fast fossil]

I don't think that's how internet or asking for collabs works

like, for one, your ask is too broad but more importantly I suppose, you have provided absolutely no information about yourself

[still condor]

!ban @marble dew suspicious partnership opportunity as first and only message

[inner wren]

:x: User is already permanently banned (#109385).

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @marble dew permanently.

[opaque geyser]

hey all,

If you are planning your next career move and need support with a resume review mock interview or a structured roadmap for cloud focused roles feel free to reach out I am offering these sessions at no cost

[rain raft]

Hello guys! I'm a medical student but I want to learn python also so i learnt pcep from CISCO free course and now I'm gonna learn pcap,so can anyone tell about money making and doing cool stuff like programming and AIs. And any suggestions you wanna give me?

[peak halo]

If you're a medical student, there might be ways that knowing python could help you with medical stuff (I don't know enough about it to even think of an example), but it's not really feasible to learn enough about programming to make any amount of money while being fully dedicated to medical school and eventually your medical occupation

Programming isn't some fast money side hustle. Nobody wants to pay you to write programs that only took you a few weeks to learn how to write

[rain raft]

I mean i also wanted to learn it for like bioinformatics and stuff, currently I'm studying for becoming a surgeon so it won't help much here. And yea it's only being few months but I should look for more to improve and get better, that's why, I asked. I'm not asking for any shortcut or easy money, I'm just asking if there's any future in it so that I can dedicate completely. 😅

[peak halo]

Forgive me if I misread you. We get a lot of people in this channel looking for easy money.

I can't imagine a way that python would be useful in a clinical setting for the person providing care, but it's probably the most used language in medical research.

[rain raft]

Ok, no problem.

[solid parcel]

Python is certainly widely used in bioinformatics. Though, as you say, I can't see any real benefit to being able to code for a surgeon. Given how intensive med school is, I do wonder if it would be worth you putting your energy wholeheartedly into that, rather than splitting it between that and learning to code!

[rain raft]

I'll be joining for my first year mbbs from July onwards. I just qualified for the university. But I thought i should do some skillfarming too.

[solid parcel]

By all means if you find it fun, go for it 🙂 If you're doing this solely for the sake of developing new skills because you feel you should be doing that, I'd recommend reflecting on if you'll regret not using that time to relax, instead. Free time may be in short supply for you across the next few years 😅

[rain raft]

Ok 😅, btw coding is fun unless there's any bug. It's like playing Minecraft in creative mode. Thanks though.

[open ivy]

Lots of people in biology don't know any computer programming. Which felt strange for anyone in science to lack even basic Python given how important it is.

You don't have to be one of them.

[rain raft]

Yes ofc.

[balmy mural]

R is generally the more commonly used language in academics outside of CS. At least, it was while I was still studying

[open ivy]

Many don't even know R. They heard if it, but never wrote anything meaningful in it.

Biology has a problem of relying too much on rote memorization. Some students didn't even know that open note exams (common in engineering) existed!

The field itself shouldn't be that way in today's world, and there ARE other ways to teach it and approach it professionally. Things hopefully are changing!

[balmy mural]

Hard to believe most don't know it. But I might have that view since I'm pretty sure the undergrads in biology at my university take a class or two in R towards the end of their bachelors

From a bit of googling, it also seems to still be the defacto standard, with a lot of undergad programs including it in their more research heavy tracks

[open ivy]

Didn't seem to be the case at all universities back when I was there. Seems to be changing.

[balmy mural]

I finished university 3 years ago. Seemed to be the case in our local universities then already. But 3 years ago is still a very recent time

[lost fern]

R is a very statistics specific language

I studied Engineering ages ago and MATLAB was quite common for Control, Signal Processing, Optimisation etc.

the Numpu/SciPy/Matplotlib stack mostly copies a lot of that MATLAB functionality so I expect some adoption in Engineering Departments and research groups

[strong lava]

I remember asking this in one of the OT channels but I figured I'll get a more serious answer here. what are some good resources for setting up and using AI agents and AI programming tools? I'm currently thinking of going for the well known options - Claude Code, Codex, Copilot, etc - and just going off their documentation, but I'm worried I'll end up locking myself into a specific tool
(I don't even know if this is the right question to be asking... I really know very little about this)

[tawdry solstice]

Hi guys, I found some job on LinkedIn, 15$ per hour, 1 month contract, no experience needed, thats what I need, but I don't know if its scam or not. What you guys think ?

[peak halo]

Can you tell us more?

[vast shoal]

I don't think this is career-related

[tawdry solstice]

I dont know anything more, because I need to apply haha. But Im working already in company (its nothing related to programing), and that job would be my first job that is about programing and stuff.

[peak halo]

You can apply and see what happens. But don't spend any money that's in any way connected to your application.

[tawdry solstice]

Im scared because on every single add that I see about work, they are looking for Junior Python Developer that know everything about Python, JavaScript, C++, and others, need to have min. 5 years of experience. I dont understand, how me as Junior can find any job without experience. Than I find this one, but there is no informations about what I would do

[vast shoal]

It does seem very unusual and suspicious that it's a programming job on Linkedin that requires no previous experience.

There's no reason to pay someone with no experience to do programming when there's a million applicants with experience.

[tawdry solstice]

Really. Here the requirements that they writted:
Basic knowlegde of Python
Problem - solving skills
Good understand of coding concepts

But maybe its company that finds people for other company, because the add is posted by some "Job Box" company or whatever

[tawdry solstice]

Maybe they want somebody to learn in their company, and than to put him in some position, I dont know. Im welder, and in that bussiness its normal thing to employe the workers with no experience, then they create a welder for special position that they need in that time

[vast shoal]

It's just that there seems to be a huge oversupply of juniors and entry-level developers on the job market right now, so I don't really understand why you'd settle for someone with no credentials at all.

[fringe sphinx]

There are many scams out there, and this may be one. Without more info, it's hard to say more

[solid parcel]

You're overthinking, they're all largely interchangeable. General consensus is that Claude Code is best, Codex is good, and Copilot is a tier below (though still reasonable, it's just a different harness using the same models).

[open ivy]

Welding is skilled how do they trust people with no experience? Training?

[peak halo]

Entry level trades jobs usually have a training phase, with the caveat that you have to pay the company back for the training if you leave within a certain amount of time

[open ivy]

This is very different than "please have 5 years of experience for Python entry level".

[peak halo]

Yeah, there's so many programmers with a few years of experience who are looking for jobs right now (because they lost the one that they had) that companies can have that requirement for the most junior positions that they're hiring for

Those jobs aren't entry level just because they're the lowest level currently offered

[open ivy]

Good thing there are motivations to continue my portfolio projects besides "getting a job". Otherwise it would be too tempting to just give up since most of my experience isn't industry based.

[mortal wedge]

Honestly, I've come across more and more companies just refusing to hire anyone who's unemployed (or rather, that doesn't have a verifiable company they are currently at). The market is so flooded they really are just trying to narrow the candidate field down however they can

[next plover]

im also curious of how many grads are actually good like in the nicest way possible, the gap between an average grad and the guy who reads kernel source for fun is huge

but that gap definitely exists and oddly seems very particular to CS and security, i suppose its the accessibility

[mortal wedge]

There's that, too. The problem is that even if an evaluation would surface strong candidates its weaker credentials, most with weaker credentials won't even get the chance

Just in case it isn't obvious, I'm not defending these companies or practices. Just trying to provide context/information about how the market is/works. Since regardless of our feelings are about it we still have to deal with this paradigm

[next plover]

yeah no the hiring market is definitely horrible right now for sure

[mortal wedge]

Honestly the part that bothers me the most about companies not wanting to hire consultants/unemployed people/whatever isn't their choice, it's that it often doesn't surface until you've finished applying

and then there's one extra little box/question

Just man up and put it on your job description

[open ivy]

If getting a job is impossible, why send out applications? Your average person isn't burning hours of time looking for the fountain of youth.

[next plover]

what sucks is that in my state regardless of the job it has to be posted publicly, so even if we know we are gonna move someone internally it has to go out publicly which is so fucking stupid because it just fucks over outside people and then we look like assholes

[mortal wedge]

Oof. That also sucks

[next plover]

and nobody knows thats a law here so we do look like assholes

[mortal wedge]

And that point jsut put it in the JD or make the JD have some ultra excessive asks, lol

Must have 200 years of python experience

[next plover]

then wed end up on some slop subreddit of people complaining about how hard their lives are

[mortal wedge]

Must have survived as a defender of the alamo

[next plover]

must be fluent in ada

[open ivy]

Even if getting a job is impossible for me.... Portfolio projects give me meaning. Social connections make me, well, connected. Skills learnt have value.

And if getting a job isn't impossible for me, this seems like a solid strategy to do so.

[mortal wedge]

Specific strategies aside, I think one of the most important aspects of dealing with long term unemployment is like.... general demeanor and mental health.

With the advent of AI, differences between applicants are more buried. Overworked recruitment teams are spending less time per applicant. "Vibes"are more important than they have been before. And unfortunately, people can smell desperation.

So having social connections, spending parts of your day focused on other tasks.... these are beneficial if for no other reason than it helps you cosplay as someone who is okay and not struggling, lol. Which matters in this market.

[smoky quest]

is this for someone with a visa?

[next plover]

hm?

[open ivy]

Remember that cold applications are far from the only way to get a job.

Here are the issues of cold applications:

1. Lack of feedback. This is HUGE!
2. Competing against AI. Unless they make the applications nuanced enough that LLMs fail.
3. Hard on mental health, no progress if you fail.
4. Hard on mental health (2), not fun at all. Maybe if they use lateral thinking to thwart the AI this will change?
5. Lack of social interaction. In a world that desperately needs better interactions.
6. Lack of social interaction (2), which in some cases can provide emergency safety nets for poverty.

For those of you doing a lot of them, you MUST address enough of these shortcomings!

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, agreed. Most other methods outside of cold applications will have a better return on investment, but assuming you e exhausted those for the time being you may wind up needing to do them anyway.

It makes me feel like a shill, but towards the end of social events I often ask people to keep me in mind for X types of roles (at the end so after they’ve had a chance to interact with me for a while)

[open ivy]

It's very hard to exhaust meeting people or working on projects. Given how many humans there are on Earth. Like it doesn't always work but I don't know if grinding out tonnes of cold apps is ever the right approach.

[mortal wedge]

Sure and I don’t disagree. You basically want to do the things that have the best estimated value of return. It just sucks that there’s delayed/no feedback and black boxing of processes

For me for instance I’m in a specific enough niche that I should cold apply to jobs in my niche even if only a few are available per day/week. Then time beyond that I divvy up between upskilling, networking, and trying to stay sane lol

[open ivy]

Yes, that isn't a "cold application heavy" approach. Since the time it takes to do so isn't that great. It's more like a hidden gem sniper approach.

[smoky quest]

Was that internal employee on a visa?

[next plover]

no i was speaking generally, we could have someone in one department guarenteed to move into a new position but as long as that position is "open" it has to be public

[smoky quest]

oh interesting

[next plover]

yeah i like, understand it conceptually but i feel like there should be exceptions when its like guarenteed the position will be filled

[open ivy]

Is there a way to sniff out these jobs? Maybe the description has subtle clues.

[smoky quest]

I am not too clear why that would be a law if no visa is involved. Otherwise, there are many cases like creating a new team, doing a reorg that would require some weird job posting

[next plover]

not where i work, our internal jobs are copy pasted for public ones (theres probably some stupid ass law that makes it illegal to change the JD or something)

[open ivy]

As long as international hires are a possibility even a small one then the law will apply.

And it may also be a misguided attempt to make jobs available to the public?

[smoky quest]

that's the opposite

[mortal wedge]

Sometimes laws don't fully foresee how people will avoid complying with the spirit of the law as they conform to the letter of the law

[smoky quest]

for international employees, that's to prove you aren't taking a job an american could have done

[next plover]

well not specifically moving deps but if my company had a job opening and i knew the manager and he guarenteed me the job, if i still have to "apply" then in that case it has to be public

[smoky quest]

So in good spirit, if you find an american that does pass the interview, you should hiring them over that international employee

[mortal wedge]

Obviously there's no societal benefit for a job posting to be put up publicly if they're intending on an internal hire

It's the opposite, it's a waste of time

[next plover]

its not the moving positions, but the way we do it here, you have to apply for a new position unless its specifically a restructure

like i couldnt go from security analyst to security engineer without "applying"

[smoky quest]

yeah, something specific to the way a company does it would make more sense

[open ivy]

Yes they must "prove" that Americans cannot do the job whenever they hire international (or have a chance to) under some of these laws, which requires advertising it to the American public.

[smoky quest]

exactly!

[mortal wedge]

Ah, unethical capitalism, say it's not so

[smoky quest]

that's just importing labor that the country needs

[open ivy]

It's amazing that anyone still keeps grinding out cold apps at a high rate given how broken the strategy is in so many ways.

[smoky quest]

it's not related to unethical capitalism

[open ivy]

Aren't there plenty of Americans who got laid off with years of industry?

[smoky quest]

cold apps work

[smoky quest]

Indeed

[open ivy]

For many people they don't work. This seems to be another place you are underestimating your people skills. There is a loneliness epidemic and social media Algorithms designed for maximum human isolation. Average social skills isn't enough, you need well above average to fight that and not be lonely.

[smoky quest]

and for many people it does work

[open ivy]

Later in the career with a specific skill that matches I could see it working. Since "10 years at Microsoft" is a simple fact that can be verified.

[smoky quest]

Also for context:

Overall employment in computer and information technology occupations is projected to grow much faster than the average for all occupations from 2024 to 2034. About 317,700 openings are projected each year, on average, in these occupations due to employment growth and the need to replace workers who leave the occupations permanently.
From https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/

And H1B visas have a cap of 65k:
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-1b-specialty-occupations/h-1b-cap-season

Let's assume 80-100k with the special quotas (ex: masters)

So each year, there are more openings than we can fill with international labor

[smoky quest]

It does work for the people being hired.
The issue is that for one position, you have thousands of applicants

But that imbalance does not mean cold applications do not work

[open ivy]

If you have a specific thing that sets you above 95+% and can be fit into the application? Then it may work.

[smoky quest]

then the implication is you do not have what it takes to compete fairly on the market

As someone recruiting, it would only comfort me in hiring through job ads since it means I get higher quality candidates

[open ivy]

Are you saying that most applicants don't have years of coding experience? I could see boot camp grads just spray and pray.

[smoky quest]

That strictly depends on the job ad. Some teams will want junior people and others more senior people

[open ivy]

What kind of "junior person" would be better than 95% of other applicants for a junior role? How do you tell them apart?

[smoky quest]

Through:

• Education
• Experience
• Projects

[peak halo]

I haven't seen anyone mention bootcamps in this channel for a while
did they basically close up shop because it would be too evident that their graduates don't get jobs?

[icy pagoda]

that's gonna constrain the pool, allowing exceptions is weirder there

but it's often written in "recommended requirements" iirc

[mortal wedge]

I'm confused by what you mean. They're already constraining the pool, I just tihnk they should be upfront about it instead of only revealing it to people after they've finished the initial submission

(specifically if a company is not interested in hiring anyone currently unemployed)

[open ivy]

Hmmm, projects is key. Since many people don't have them. And I am making sure to finish my projects or at least get to milestones instead of taking on too many.

So that is a way that differentiates me from most juniors that does not involve much industry experience.

If I had 5+ years of industry that would be good but that wouldn't be a "junior role match" anymore.

[icy pagoda]

in the (rare) case you want to hire someone with no experience because they were good, you don't want to be going against the baseline requirements to do that

[smoky quest]

they have no reason to constrain the pool. The incentive is to keep it wide open in case someone interesting comes in

[open ivy]

Good point. This is the dog that isn't barking. I think it's good news that programming is known as being a place that is hard to get jobs. Less competition. And more passion (less greedy people).

[mortal wedge]

Sorry, I'm still not sure what you're saying. If they're requiring you to acknowledge that you're currently employed during application submission, I'm not sure what they have to gain by checking it at the end of the form or being upfront about it.

Similar with salary ranges. They should be provided upfront in the job description as opposed to figuring out there's a mismatch down the road.

[smoky quest]

keep in mind that all juniors will have projects as well. Though there is a difference between making a todo list app and a compiler

[mortal wedge]

To be clear, this isn't "no experience". This is just currently employed vs not currently employed due to layoff or whatever

[mighty spire]

Yeah kind of nice, as well if it keeps going it migth reduce ia slop a bit, i still havent really gotten in the job market but i am a bit scared about it being filled with ""amazing"" proyects that are just ia slop by unmotivated people which makes it really hard to get to the interview

[mortal wedge]

It's not likely your projects will be looked at prior to your first interview. This is because the people in charge of the screening/first step don't have the technical depth to understand your projects. Those are things that will be looked at later in the process, if at all

[icy pagoda]

makes sense, although i don't think that's always true - i know a person who got employed recently at a decently reputed company (after being laid off from another reputed company)

but my point was, sure they need you to check the box. They still want their options open in case someone interesting turns up who doesn't check the box

[smoky quest]

It's very often the manager doing the first pass. Sometimes both with the recruiter.
So I would caution against making such strong statement

[mortal wedge]

It's not all companies, but it's become a growing annoyance.

I think I kind of get what you're going for, but I think we might just be misaligning on the workflow they're using/doing. People can still submit applications even if they're not currently employed. It's just a matter of they let the candidate know that upfront and save them the time if they don't want to apply or if they let the candidate know after they've filled in most of/all of the form. Unless you're suggesting people might be more likely to submit anyway because of inertia at that point?

In both cases the company is clearly communicating you won't be hired if you're not currently employed. But one strategy blocks your submission when you try to send it and the other informs the candidate through the JD. In either case the block is there, but one is more respectful to the applicant's time.

[mighty spire]

Maybe a flat fee for foreing employees to foster a more conpetitive salary scheme for americans or bureocratic hurdles, like there should be better choices than making every hire be taken trougth aplications

[smoky quest]

If there was one, it would already be super popular 😉
The issue is there can always be a perverted incentive

hiring is a pain for everyone and companies have better things to do than this

[open ivy]

That is a good point. My projects are generally quite big and take a lot of effort. Unfortunately even small crappy projects can be advertised as very challenging, so how would they know mine are actually challenging?

[icy pagoda]

they don't, often

[open ivy]

I have some traction at an individual level, like showing people in makerspaces (and also listening to their projects). But for a resume or a job application I am pretty lost how to do this. There simply isn't enough space.

[smoky quest]

Your projects will not be judged on their nature but based on their 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

[open ivy]

So I will be busy figuring out how to showcase said skills, even if the projects themselves aren't that successful in the end goals (as is the case in exploratory research many things fail).

[smoky quest]

left-pad was very successful but demonstrated very little skills

[barren summit]

can we promote our build product here?

[fringe sphinx]

We don't allow advertisements but you can show off at #1468524576479641744

[dapper matrix]

Question: Is frontend the only way beginners have?

[smoky quest]

nope

it's a common entry point for self-taught/bootcamps, but if you have a degree, any job will eventually need a new grad

[rain pulsar]

hey guys! im pretty new to python, but i know the basics of coding. i js wanna know whats the best typa project for a beginner like me to work on to accelerate my skills? I am currently an undergrad in uni on my first year, and while i have basic proficiency in python, i just dont know what i should try building. i dont have any passion in particular either

[smoky quest]

try things to find your passion!

So make games, compilers, databases, backend, robots, frontend, etc.

[rain pulsar]

thank you so much! another question i have is, what type of projects could i start doing now to appeal to bigger companies so i can hopefully land an internship soon

[smoky quest]

Don't worry about your appeal now. You are just a first year and you haven't peaked yet.
Focus on your learning and finding what you vibe with

[vast shoal]

Like recursive says, try different things and find something you are passionate about. If you make something in that area where it shows that you really went deep, and that you really care about it beyond just having something to add to your resume, then that'll probably be about as good as it gets.

[latent shale]

Hello everyone , want some guidance regarding AI internship , is anyone here ?

[smoky quest]

it depends on the question

[latent shale]

I am learning ML

do i get internship in ML , because AI is so vast my friend .
It have many division

This January just due to trend I have learned Langrapgh as Agentic Ai was trending
Left he playlist halfway

but now I have started learnin AI from Scratch
ML -> DL -> CNN -> NLP
and then GEn AI and then Agentic AI

I know it will take time but eventually i need job in this field only

[next berry]

Why only in the field of "AI"? That's extremely broad

[latent shale]

because that's the future

I have learned Web development so far , and I know the fact that I will sit for college placement and will be hired by mass recruiter that too indian service based compnay

But from my side i want to do internship in AI field

[next berry]

Which part of AI specifically

[latent shale]

as far now I am learning Core ML and DL

[tawdry solstice]

Yeah, and when I clicked on the link for the apply, it took me to site where are they looking for people that have 7y of experience, I mean WT* haha

[vast shoal]

That's more in line with what I would've expected

[balmy mural]

It worked for me and I don't have anything exceptional on my CV. Just a normal, good enough one.

[civic geode]

now days companies are hiring 1 or 2 expert developers and buy claude ai and building application initially they hire 5 or 6 as a team after production ready than they only keep 1 or 2 !!!

[solid parcel]

Same at my org, yup

[tawdry solstice]

Soo what are you suggest me. Because I have health issues, and I can not do my job. I started to learn Python, but with no work experience, its hard :/

[barren summit]

well they asking for the source to share , i can't as it's underdev projects. The project represents a production-oriented system I’ve invested significant time and resources into, so the full codebase isn’t publicly shared. I’m happy to explain the architecture, workflows, and specific modules if that helps in evaluation.

Also i want to understand the purpose of sharing at project-showcase ? how it will benefit to my project?

[vernal widget]

"hey guys , i made a cool thing , look" is what i assume the point of it is . just to feel satisfied and have someone to show your accomplishment to .
the second biggest point would be to get reviews about the code structure or the project as awhole imo

[tawny sapphire]

Do you speak Englis well?

[tawdry solstice]

Yeah, I speak. I mean on my current job, I 90% speak english

[tawny sapphire]

I have already sent you DM

[valid spruce]

im a college student with specialization in AI and ML and i want to search remote jobs outside india but im not able to find something, do you guys know any website or where can i apply for remote ML jobs

[still condor]

!warn @tawny sapphire Please read our rules. We do not allow offering paid work on this server.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @tawny sapphire.

[tawny sapphire]

If you are interested in me, send me DM

[lunar quest]

Fuck

[peak halo]

is something wrong?

[lunar quest]

Yes

[lunar quest]

I wanet to ping my friend called here and i got a warning cuz acidently pinging like here

[peak halo]

this is not related to career discussion. and your friend should change their name.

[lunar quest]

Im sorry 😥 😥

Im gonna go beat up my cat rq

[peak halo]

!mute 1188591039133515777 "1 day" Stop trolling

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @lunar quest until <t:1776094081:f> (1 day).

[regal linden]

so I'm gonna get into cllg and I wanna take computer science but my parents insist that I take smthg like chemical engineering cause apparently the jobs in computer sector are getting replaced by ai 🥀

and so I need some advice whether to choose cs or not

[peak halo]

jobs in computing aren't getting replaced by AI in the sense that your parents probably think they are.
but there is a scarcity of entry-level programming jobs because of broader economic issues. and there's no way to know if the situation will have improved by the time you finish a degree.

[regal linden]

so should I take it or should I just listen to my parents

[peak halo]

I can't decide that for you.
how interested are you in chemical engineering?

[regal linden]

absolutely nothing

I mean I'm not really into that course and not interested

[peak halo]

what other interests do you have? and what country are you in?

[regal linden]

well I am interested in robotics, and from india

[peak halo]

I don't know what the job market is like for robotics in India. developing autonomous robots involves knowledge in mechanical engineering and physics, in addition to computation. so that might give you something to look into

and to the extent that any variety of programming is going to be replaced by AI, I think robotics is one of the safest ones.

[regal linden]

right I'll look into it thankyou soo muchh!!

[peak halo]

I would see if you can find a robotics professional in India to give you some advice. I don't think we have any in this server.

[regal linden]

okayy ty

[open ivy]

Agreed that AI is not replacing human talent since it is knowledge over wisdom.

We still have Big Problems like cancer and aging to work in so there isn't a lack of need. Instead of replacing talent AI makes getting a job harder by clogging the two main hiring pathways:

1. Cold applications are flooded with AI, this really took off in 2024.

2. AI is such a good chatbot at making us feel accepted with its "feel good" praising that it competes with human interaction. Making networking harder.

3. Does anyone have a 2024+ recent cold application success story? How did you pass the Turing test?

4. Makerspaces and other groups where people want to share their projects seem good. People listen to each-others bespoke ideas instead of talking to a more "generic" AI.

[dull belfry]

i have a question

[barren summit]

In my case, the project is closer to a production system, so I’m careful about what I share publicly. I can still walk through architecture or specific components if useful.

[dull belfry]

i had this long conversation with my friend who works in a reputed tech company. and he told me that better look for other jobs because Software jobs especially SDE is going from worse to even more worse
he said his company have stopped hiring and is actively firing people and its same with all the other companies where his friends work.
even he is unsure of his position and is warning me against choosing this field as a source of income as its highly instable and getting a job is becoming impossible for freshers

[regal linden]

yea even oracle had fired around 200k(idk, I forgot around smthg like that) ppl itseems

[dull belfry]

my quesiton is. what should i do now ? (final year student)

[open ivy]

Have we cured Alzheimer's yet? Can we regrow limbs? Who will do the computational modelling of biological systems to do that?

[fringe sphinx]

Broadly, first ask: what experience does your friend have and what crystal ball are they using to predict the future?

[solid parcel]

Oracle has less employees than that worldwide, lol. So no, they have not

[regal linden]

ohh I didn't know that I just heard it somewhere thx for letting me know

[fringe sphinx]

Secondly, ask what professional fields aren't filled with doomsayers. Look at the subreddits for lawyers, doctors, and other professions. They're all fearing the collapse of humanity.

[solid parcel]

It is true they've let a fair few people go, but that seems to largely be because they're needing to free up capital to invest in data centres, because they've overstretched their finances.

[open ivy]

There is a grain of truth to tech companies losing steam as they go into maintenance mode. Social media isn't adding new features that help it's users.

But tech jobs in non tech companies I believe are doing OK.

[fringe sphinx]

Oracle did layoff a ton of people. Oracle is making a very risky move to change from a software company to a data center company. This is partly because they've been late to the game, and partly an opportunistic attempt to jump on a AI wave late.

[solid parcel]

I would push back strongly on the idea of tech companies losing steam. They're continuing to add functionality at a huge pace, and revenue continues to grow at a much higher rate than in most (all?) other industries.

[fringe sphinx]

My general career advice is - "Chance favors the prepared mind" (Louis Pasteur)

[dull belfry]

i think a senior manager now. like 10-15 years of experience. they also glorify AI so much and ask me to use it as much as possible to atleast get ahead of the race if am trying to compete (which they say is pointless)

[fringe sphinx]

That seems like terrible advice.

I don't mean "stay away from AI", but I mean - learn things deeply.

[dull belfry]

i am just planning to try for jobs for 1-2 years after graduating. after that if i don't get one. ill do this as a side quest

[solid parcel]

This is pretty horrendous advice. AI is a great tool, but if you don't build up strong fundamentals and instead just default to trusting what an AI tells you, you're kneecapping your own learning.

It's somewhat analogous to learning to play piano via one of those phone apps, following along by rote rather than learning to read music.

[open ivy]

Hmmm, what are some recently developed tech features I am missing out on? Because the world is a big place and I am likely missing something. I feel stuck in 2008 in terms of connecting with people socially.

[dull belfry]

they do recommend that i should know the fundamentals and the concepts. but advise to use AI to make resume worthy projects rather than simple ones

not saying to blindly follow aI

[fringe sphinx]

In general, social media isn't a place to connect with people socially. It's an skinner's box designed to maximize engagement for the sake of engagement.

[dull belfry]

told me to try windsurf or get pro subscription in some models like claude code

[fringe sphinx]

Where are you in yoru education? Uni?

[dull belfry]

final year btech india

[fringe sphinx]

I would prioritize real projects that involve learning and the hard work.

[solid parcel]

That's a slightly more nuanced take and I'm glad they're recommending you do properly learn concepts. I do think learning how to build with AI is a skill worth developing. That said, I'd caution restraint in using it to build portfolio projects. It's often blatantly obvious when someone has used AI to build a project. I would personally much prefer to see a junior build a much smaller project that they understand deeply, rather than leaning heavily on AI to try and build something impressive.

[fringe sphinx]

Just "doing it with AI" means you'll be very undistinguished.

[open ivy]

Tech isn't just social media. And I agree. This is why I say a website (which users can view on desktop or mobile and does not put ads in their face or ask them to join or whatever) is much more important than a LinkedIn. Of course IRL matters too!

[fringe sphinx]

The frustrating thing is - spaces that have been good for social connections have generally been enshittified to the engagement engines.

[dull belfry]

this is my plan

[regal linden]

so a person from india who'll start their btech aren't suggested to take cs??

[open ivy]

Agreed. Because humans are vulnerable to being brainwashed by natural language as a general rule. AI can sound so authoritative while also being wrong.

[dull belfry]

in india college matters. good college you are covered with the alumini support. medium or below idk what to do

i have my friends getting placed, but they are in good college and am in tier 999

i was talking about offcampus opportunities earlier

[open ivy]

At what level? I use AI for "what is the library function call that does this". That seems pretty safe. But AI for "Make a project that does this" and it spits out a ton of code is riskier.

[vernal widget]

then i dont think there is a channel for something like that , if you dont want to share source code but want to advertise to people , that starts to sound a little like marketing 🤷

[open ivy]

Is it a project for which someone else owns the IP? Otherwise people overestimate the risk of ideas bieng stolen.

[solid parcel]

It depends. I love using it to trace through how some functionality in a large project works. I also sometimes use it for boilerplate and to rubber duck about my plans for a project.

I think there's a time and a place to use it much more than that. For example, if I have an idea for a script that would be useful for my team but that a) I can't justify investing much time in and b) Is simple and non-critical enough that it doesn't require brilliant code quality, I'd consider throwing AI at it. A lot of the time it can produce 'good enough' output.

[open ivy]

Is using AI to make a crappy script then cleaning up the script a bad idea?

[solid parcel]

It depends on the complexity and critically of what you're doing. Increasingly, I think that's an entirely reasonable approach. The tricky part is that it means you're not engaging as deeply with the design as if you'd written it yourself, so it can slow (and perhaps even lead to a decline in?) engineering prowess and taste.

[open ivy]

AI itself is the ulitmate sphagetti code. In an image generator you don't even know where the "make a cat weights" are which is very, very antithetical to clean code.

So there will be room in AI interpretability and "refactoring" giant AI blobs into smaller more modular pieces (which are likely to mix AI and non-AI pieces). Doing so makes it much easier to understand, extend, and will boost performance a lot.

[glacial lake]

A recruiter told me I should make videos explaining my code, I've recorded a bunch of stuff that's like 50 minutes in length total, what should I do to get feedback on the videos and whether or not their good?

[peak halo]

Did they tell you how long the videos should be? I think it would be prohibitively expensive to review one hour of narration per candidate.

[glacial lake]

Yeah it was just a passing suggestion they made, for me to put it on my github, they didn't give me any extra explanation

[peak halo]

You could upload them to YouTube as unlisted videos (meaning only those with the link that you provide would be able to find it), but I don't think you'll find anyone willing to watch that much for you.

I would think that 15 minutes is the absolute max anyone would be willing to watch

[glacial lake]

That's what I thought too, should I split it into bits explaining each step in its specific folder or something? Are videos even good or was the guy off his rocker?

[peak halo]

I've never heard of anyone making videos like this, but what I'm saying is, I think 15 minutes is the absolute maximum that a hiring manager would be willing to watch. So if this is a serious suggestion, I think you need to start over and be more concise.

Splitting it up won't help if the total amount of content is more than anyone is willing to consume

[glacial lake]

Alright thanks, I'll start editing it or record a new one, I hope this isn't a waste of time

[solid parcel]

Honestly, I highly suspect it will be. The vast majority of recruiters won't even look at a GitHub project, let alone watch a related video.

I could see value from improving your presentation skills, but I wouldn't hold your breath when it comes to the video improving your employment chances.

[next plover]

In my case it wasn't HR that looked but once I got an interview the actual cybersecurity manager did so yeah id not rely on a random HR person caring at all until you get an interview

[solid parcel]

This was them looking at a GitHub project rather than a related video, I take it?

[next plover]

Yeah my website

I'm not even sure if they'd bother with a video at all tbh

Looking at someone's code can prove a lot in 5 minutes but a 15 minute youtube video might not be worth it to them

[barren lotus]

i genuinely dont know why i should even try anymore

if a glowing interview, like i had previously, ghosted me and didnt even get me a proper rejection what's the point

even if i can get an interview it'll just be another rejection

or ghosting

[rigid garnet]

i think there is a lot of that out there unfortunately but keep your head up!

[solid parcel]

Some may be, not all will be. A frustratingly high part of landing a job is playing the numbers game

[barren lotus]

i am currently running my scraping script right now lol

playing the numbers game

with programming

i dont know why i even try

[solid parcel]

The latest data is showing open software engineering positions up double digits YoY, so there are some signs for optimism

[barren lotus]

yea

i dont even have a CS degree

or a comp eng degree

[rigid garnet]

I don't have any degree whatsoever school wasn't my jam, so to speak. I'm sure you'll find something if you keep looking!

[barren lotus]

optimism requires belief, and belief only stretches so thin over time

[rigid garnet]

how long have you been looking?

[barren lotus]

2 years now

[rigid garnet]

What platforms do you normally use to look for opportunities

[barren lotus]

local online job boards, and indeed

say, we should move this over to an ot channel

maybe #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

im kinda just ranting

[open ivy]

All this talk about cold apps but how do we adjust for AI!? 2024 was when LLM powered applications really ramped up. Those successful before 2024 may just be drowned out today. Applying for jobs is a formulaic task well suited to AI.

Unless they are good at thwarting the AI. Do you know of any platforms which are doing that?

[rigid garnet]

I mean when we look through our applications its pretty easy to weed out bad apples XD granted we don't get the volume of applications i'm sure larger companies do

[open ivy]

Would you accept an application written by AI so long as the resume was honest and the qualifications are decent?

[rigid garnet]

as long as effort was put into it. but thats the problem. lots of resumes either generated by ai or submitted by ai tend to want to please to the listing. i.e., if we are looking for a flutter dev magically the person has 2 years professional experience with flutter even though its mentioned literally no where else in their application

i've seen people throw our listing into chatgpt and forget to take out the precursor to the actual response its hilarious

[open ivy]

I think you are getting at how we should be using AI. We should restrict it to our qualifications even if it misses a requirement or two. AI can instead be used to emphasize what is most relevant rather than invent new stuff.

Also, much of filling out applications can be automated without AI, such as GPA/address/etc and workaday accounts.

Maybe... A prompt like this: "here is a list of qualifications I have: ... Here is the job description .... Select a subset and rephrase my requirements to emphasize what matches the best with this job."

And not just one prompt. One could use AI to extract the requirements list. Then have another AI trim down an oversized resume by choosing what's most relevant, and finally an AI that ensures the resume still flows since pieces were cut out of it.

So it's constrained AI.

[rigid garnet]

I like that!

[spiral fractal]

Hello everyone. Im a student getting my bachelors in CS in a couple weeks. No job lined up. I have been using Python for years now and it is my go to language whenever I build anything. I would really love a job where I can be a Python developer. The job market has proved difficult to navigate. Does anyone have any ideas for jobs to look for that maybe arent as “glamorous” and over saturated that I could realistically find openings for? I have been applying mostly to data analytics/ science jobs, some software engineering

[rigid garnet]

honestly? i've had my best success in the startup world. especially if your uni has a tech incubator or accelerator. job security at startups of course is pretty shaky, but i also suppose its better than nothing.

i worked at the university of missouri for nearly 7 years then hopped back into the startup game

[barren summit]

That’s fair. My intention here is more aligned with building a product rather than open-source sharing, so I understand this might not be the right place for it.

[open ivy]

In some cases the safest bet for a source of income is to start a startup. The VC funding will pay you even if it never makes any profit. Of course, you lose some ownership and it is better if it does succeed.

[next berry]

Have you successfully raised before? As a VC, this seems nonsensical: the income largely goes towards paying for other staff, marketing, whatever. If you don't make any "profit", there's clawback provisions amongst other terms to prevent you walking away with the money.

Losing ownership is part of having investors take a bet on you: it's incredibly difficult to convince others as to why you'll win in some narrow part of your industry.

[open ivy]

Aren't you allowed to pay yourself 60-100k or so? Not a huge salary, but at least a little.

[smoky quest]

it's more about the phrasing: focus being on getting paid to work on your thing VS funding the growth of the product.

In terms of VC and growth, remember the equity will be worth many digits. The salary is dwarfed by that

[next berry]

Standard terms across the US, UK and EU are for core founders (tech specific but whatever) to take minimum salaries

[open ivy]

What is "minimum"?

[next berry]

It's just frustrating to see people throw around these terms when they have no understanding of the industry, standard term clauses, or how anything works

[next berry]

Is this pedantic on purpose or by accident? Minimum wage.

[open ivy]

Like the actual legal minimum? Instead of minimum you can resonably live on?

[smoky quest]

if you ask that question, you would not be the right target

[open ivy]

Good point. From a personal point of view, you can think of it as a job (work hard, get paid a modest amount + a small chance of hitting it big). But when you pitch of course you make it about them and you should keep true to that at least to an extent.

[next berry]

What don't you understand about minimum wage sorry?

[smoky quest]

There is no specific number.
You have to put it into context with you runway and how you would use that money. If you blow it all on your salary, you will obviously cut your runway very short and not demonstrate a wise use of it, which in turns make it difficult to demonstrate you are worth investing in

[smoky quest]

You don't get investments for just a job

[open ivy]

I doubt 60k would in most cases would be considered "blow it all on your salary". However, @next berry disagrees they are saying it is the actual legal minimum wage which (for 2000 hours a year) works out to 33k in California and lower in most other parts of America.

It is a lot harder to live on 33k than on 60k.

[smoky quest]

this is missing the whole point

[open ivy]

My point:
Venture capital allows you to take enough money to live modestly on. Which is much better than making zero, as is the case for many people struggling to get a job.

Agreed that you cannot "blow money on yourself".

[next berry]

Again, have you successfully raised before? Have you invested in founders before? Where are you drawing from to say "in most cases" here?

Which geography, which sector, which types of founders?

[smoky quest]

Your point is misunderstanding the point of VC money and the people who would seek it

This is not how it works

[open ivy]

Lets say someone cannot get a job but has an idea that could eventually become a product. Shouldn't they go for VC?

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

[next berry]

No

[icy pagoda]

that plan does work decently for few (especially if you're in a university)

[smoky quest]

VC money is not for everyone. And while they may try to go for VC funding, they may not get it as they aren't equipped to raise properly and use it properly

[next berry]

This is a terrible analogy to draw in this context tbh

[open ivy]

So they are better off living without money? It is more and more popular to do so here I see a LOT of very low income living in the SF Bay area.

[icy pagoda]

eh, there's nothing stopping them from trying and they should try unless it inconviniences them more than not having a job (in case it doesn't work out)

[smoky quest]

It will be crude, but a broken analogy is like all the creeps that ask for sex to random people on the Internet. It's true that 100% of the shots you don't take will be missed, but it's also true that it isn't how you build a relationship

[next berry]

We have rejected countless founders who refused to go back to job searching and instead burned time and money building nothing

[smoky quest]

You wanting money and asking VC for money because they do have some, isn't how you build your "income"

[open ivy]

I feel this way about cold applications. It turns me into a creepy spambot stranger danger. With networking, a mutually beneficial relationship built over time is front and center.

[icy pagoda]

sure, it's still worth a shot for most. some of them do get through

[smoky quest]

It can be creepy when the applicant does not understand their audience

[next berry]

The people who get through will generally not be those who are out of work and looking for something to get money from

[open ivy]

Not everyone has your privilage. If you easily find people to talk to about topics you are interested in, in the year 2026, your don't just have average people skills. You are well above average. We have a loneliness epidemic because it the social media attention war and now AI chatbots are stealing people's time from eachtoher.

You naturally know how to cold-apply without needing feedback and not come across as a stranger or a random desperate person etc much like Einstein naturally picking up math. Not everyone has this privilege and for those who don't sometime another stragegy is better.

[smoky quest]

I appreciate and thank you for the praise.
However I do not feel my skills are above average.

[open ivy]

How do you know you are just average? You have done a lot better than most people. Have you needed 500 job applications to get hired? Lots of people do, some give up after 1000.

[next berry]

These are absolutely wild statements to make here lol

[icy pagoda]

generally sure, if the filters are decent. I do not think that is necessarily true though, getting VC funding is not common here but the only people I knew from [university](#career-advice message) definitely had money as a primary/secondary motivation. might be a biased sample but i do think this is increasing post AI

[smoky quest]

maybe let's focus back on what are VCs, when to leverage them and how to understand better the ecosystem so folks can be more successful

Given that @ turn28 appears to be one, it's a great opportunity for you to ask them how they evaluate people, what they are looking for or even why do they even invest in the first place instead of doing something else

[next berry]

My point was about not having a job and requiring the money, not leaving an existing job. And I can't think of many people who get funding straight after university, unless it's commercializing something deeptech-y out of PhD

[open ivy]

Seems like it's a balance. The less people "fit" into traditional roles the more likely they will find a place in the VC world. But neither world is easy and "to each thier own" applies strongly there.

[icy pagoda]

(this was after a bachelor's, i'm not sure if I can call it deeptech-y research either)

[next berry]

Funding an undergrad is wild. Literally no relevant commercial work experience, likely they want someone in their family for network access, product distribution for other portcos, or something else

[smoky quest]

I do remember quite a few parties and pipelines sponsored by VCs for students from stanford.
Though that is more of an exception than a rule

[next berry]

We sit on some cap tables (never as leads) for portcos that literally just wanted a brand name investor to reciprocate a favor

[open ivy]

@next berry I have very little industry experience but have a lot of personal projects. Lately I have been "tightening them down" (finishing the smaller ones, not taking on too many, etc).

Jobs in industry tend to care most about years of industry, but aren't there companies that are also open to "portfoleo expirence" instead?

[next berry]

Why would the companies hire people with "portfolio" experience rather than actual experience

[open ivy]

So what is my best strategy then?

[next berry]

I don't know, you've asked a question out of nowhere with not much context.

You haven't said what you're looking to achieve, in what timeframe, how you'll measure success, nothing that can guide me to giving advice

[open ivy]

Ok so I am in a situation where I have much more experience (as in a decade or so, although some of that was part time while I was getting BS then MS then PhD and so I am counting these years as 1/2 each) with portfolio projects but less than year in industry. I have one big project and rotate out smaller projects. Some of these projects may be monetizable but it's hard for me to read markets and it would be a long road.

My goal over, say the next year, is to find a stable source of income in exchange for working, either for myself or for others. But getting traditional jobs is difficult for me because of my lack of formal industry experience.

[smoky quest]

fyi, sending an anonymized version of your resume would make it more clear for everyone

[open ivy]

It's late here I will send an anon version tomorrow. I have my fully updated resume just need to anon it.

[next berry]

Apply for entry level jobs, volunteer for positions relevant to your field of interest, work in whatever role you can until then

[open ivy]

Aren't people really struggling even to get entry level jobs? But your idea of volunteering is good, I could be a programmer to someone's gamejam if nothing else.

[next berry]

Doesn't make a difference to the strategy, apply to more stuff and be more proactive about getting feedback

There are people who comfortably go from PhD/postdoc to industry, what were you doing in that decade?

[open ivy]

A lot of the"decade" was during my PhD counting those years half time. What I did post PhD was apply to a few jobs a day for a year. Then a friend hired me for a year, company (tiny startup) went into survival mode layed me off, then I focused more on networking and building social skills since then. I feel real progress compared to six months ago.

I feel I get more traction and feedback talking to real humans rather than cold applications. Maybe I am missing a better way to laser-target them?

At what point do I give up on cold apps, or at least set limits to how much time to spend on them?

[balmy forge]

Hi! My Bachelor's degree continues and I'm looking to get involved in more programs and competitions and get real world practical knowledge for future. I’m focused on building a strong portfolio so that I’m ready to jump straight into the workforce as soon as I graduate!

[jagged locust]

I mean you can do both really

[south grail]

I am currently in highschool and have an opportunity to join f1 in schools (basically we design car and team portfolio and race tht car in a drag race) which is pretegious but not related to cs. Since i am planning to go for cs path is it worth it (it takes A LOT of effort) or do i focus on learning cs related things.

[novel mural]

hey u all there is a game jam coming up so pls i need a team to join me to create the game

[fringe sphinx]

Learn what you want. People often have hobby's or interests outside their major. It's good and healthy to know things.

[open ivy]

Game Jams are microscopic networking job searches, you have to find the right people and get them to work with you.

This sub forum isn't the right place to recruit. Find people you click with on #game-development and/or dedicated gamedev spaces online and in person.

Keep in mind that asking people to work on your game means it's also their game and they have a say in the design decisions as well. And you will have pull your load work wise, with art or UI or whatever you want to do.

This is one strategy to build skills for a real job, namely working on a team with a deadline. Make it clear that whatever game you make will be a portfolio project and you will put it on your website as such.

[abstract kite]

What carrer should I pursue rn I am looking forward to AI engineer but idk the requirements. My aim is to get a job at companies like nvidia

[glass silo]

Hi all, I just want to know what a research role would look like. I just have some insight into it; but want to know how it is in terms of being able to deliver or how research is planned and what is expected from you.

I have a lot of side questions on the lines I might be completely wrong, but I want to know the following aspects:
0. How do you get the problems you have to work on? Who decides them and how?

1. Novelty/patents: ... is it a thing you look forward to? Do you know if your work will turn into a patent or a journal paper? Any targets like X patents or Y journal papers per year or role?

[open ivy]

Do you want to use AI to make an app? Do you want to dig into the weights and see how it actually works?

These tasks are miles different, app dev is mainly about the business (user base) while the scientific side of computing is it's own world centered around deep technical thinking. And GPU coding.

[peak halo]

To answer point one: I work for a non-profit that was chartered by the US Congress to do various kinds of research, and the company is required under that charter to spend a certain amount of revenue on research projects that we come up with (as opposed to work that's sent to us by the government). For those projects, there are futurists who set the company's research agenda for each calendar year, and employees can submit proposals for research projects that fit some aspect of the agenda, and the futurists allocate money towards the ones they think are most promising.

I don't know how widely used this model is, and I don't have any comment on needing to write papers or patents (point two) as I've left true academia and will probably never go back.

[abstract kite]

Well letting AI do some work is boring (as long as its not mine)

So actually building one is preferred by me

[next berry]

This seems like a pretty personal-to-you question?

How many of your cold applications get rejected at different stages? Can you get feedback for why that is?

Are you getting interviews? Do you get rejected there?

[next berry]

If you've been focusing on networking and the other thing, why aren't you leveraging that network

[open ivy]

I am starting to, getting interviews once in a while. Still not a magic bullet and much improvement needed. Thankfully, I feel myself making slow but steady progress in social skills, finding the right people, working on my pitches, etc. As well as being careful what projects to take on and not to over-scope them because I was spreading myself too thin.

Back when I was doing cold applications I was just stuck completely. Very little interviews, almost all ghosting or rejections. Very little human interaction. Very little learning what was wrong, as the few interviews I had seemed to go well.

[glass silo]

Thanks for sharing your views

[open ivy]

That is quite nice to have! Most of us have to do research on our own dime (our own time?). That doesn't mean that we cannot still make great things, after all the pioneers of Jazz sparked a revolution in a similar way from a very difficult launchpad. But still, nice that you are paid to do basic research.

Also sounds quite AI-resistant. When you are exploring, you are going beyond the training data by definition.

[next berry]

It really sounds like you're overthinking this. Apply for stuff, get feedback when it doesn't work out, repeat.

[glass silo]

I've heard instances of this model, and sometimes you collaborate with universities in your country, the funding is also really good for you people, the numbers I hear are 3M euros or something like that.

On point two, yes academia requires X paper target. I'm probably wrong for confusing RE for academia

[open ivy]

What feedback? Only one failed interview gave me any response as to why I failed, and they said "very specific fit" so it wasn't clear what it meant. The rest ignored me.

Networking is giving me social skills feedback which, while isn't perfect, is far better than cold apps.

[next berry]

Feedback for why they've rejected you? Why are you not getting active feedback on your resume, doing mock interviews with people, anything to understand where the gaps in your skills/knowledge/whatever are.

Also you keep talking about "networking" and "social skills": if you went through academia and up to a PhD, surely you're able to talk to people? That's a pretty massive requisite for the work environment

[open ivy]

Hmmm, I remember people complaining about my social skills saying I talk "the way a PhD grad talks".

I do once in a while do mock interviews, when others give me a chance (it's a strange ask), and they explain that I wasn't clear what I was offering, so I tightened my pitch since. The last (real) interview I had was a few weeks ago and I kept it exactly within the 15 min time window to the minute so I am more disciplined.

There is a lot of work to be done on my own website, this is (admittedly) my fault with writers block. I will make it a point to do a little each day starting with today. Websites are great places to demo programming projects in this WASM world.

[next berry]

As a PhD grad you should hopefully be aware of the process of iteration with slight changes in process.

If the job application process isn't going well, what are you changing? Your resume, the stuff you're applying for, or something else?

Why aren't you doing mock interviews as often as possible? It's not a "strange ask" whatsoever, considering the amount of discord servers and other online communities which are dedicated to helping people for free.

How does writers block factor into this at all? Apply for stuff, do mock interviews, tune your resume and responses with help from others.

Websites are pretty basic to build nowadays, not sure what you're on about with the "WASM world" comment but sure.

This level of overthinking is bordering on the chronic in all honesty. Not being able to proactively find solutions to problems is gonna make job hunting difficult.

[open ivy]

As a PhD grad you should hopefully be aware of the process of iteration with slight changes in process.
Yes, that is a valuable skill I learned for refactoring code.
If the job application process isn't going well, what are you changing? Your resume, the stuff you're applying for, or something else?
I tried changing several parameters and it failed.
Why aren't you doing mock interviews as often as possible? It's not a "strange ask" whatsoever, considering the amount of discord servers and other online communities which are dedicated to helping people for free.
Good point, I could ask gently about it.
How does writers block factor into this at all? Apply for stuff, do mock interviews, tune your resume and responses with help from others.
Writers block has made it hard for me to get my portfoleo website up and running. This is on me to clear the block, as an online presence is an important piece of the puzzle.
Websites are pretty basic to build nowadays, not sure what you're on about with the "WASM world" comment but sure.
WASM is a powerful tool to run computationally-heavy code in the browser with reasonable efficiency. Which is good for showcasing my work which is CPU heavy.
This level of overthinking is bordering on the chronic in all honesty. Not being able to proactively find solutions to problems is gonna make job hunting difficult.
It's a big decision, so it's worth it to think? But going by emotions, my gut feeling is that cold applications, for me, are a pure waste of time. This is a strong visceral feeling. My heart tells me to focus on networking and portfolio projects, with an online presence because communication matters tool.

[next berry]

Ok so apply your skills from refactoring code to this.

You changed several parameters and it still failed, change more parameters or shift your focus. Do you just give up on code if it keeps failing?

I've been DM'd by a couple people already warning me from engaging further on this. Had no idea that you've spent years basically rehashing this conversation with whoever would listen.

Sorry but if you're confident enough to recommend people dedicate themselves to raising VC because of how straightforward it is, but you find cold applications a big decision with a strong visceral feeling, I can't continue this conversation.

[terse fox]

guys i have a really important question

[open ivy]

VC isn't straightforward. There are a subset of people who struggle with cold applications but (crucially) also have cool ideas. I meet them once in a while.

For this subset VC may be the better choice. It's still a very difficult path!

[terse fox]

should i go for python or web dev (html,css and js) and why?

[peak halo]

you listed the three languages for front-end web development. do you understand the difference between front-end and back-end? I ask because back-end web development is still part of web development.

[next berry]

Are you really explaining my job to me lol

When we had a fairly protracted conversation where I asked for your credentials and reasoning for giving advice in such a blasé manner to people

[terse fox]

yes i know diff but i have a good knowlge abt UX UI i stayed in it for 3 months

i learnt python from 3 months

and i forgot it

[open ivy]

You are right I should have explained it more carefully. I was trying to say something along the lines of "AI has made cold applications very difficult (since 2024 or so), especially if your trajectory doesn't fit well into the standard path. IF you have a good idea, maybe VC is an option instead."

[terse fox]

i mean which way give more money

[next berry]

To reduce it down to "a good idea" is just wild. Best of luck in future, I'm gonna follow the advice of these people in DMs and move on from this.

[near ocean]

Whichever youre better at will give you more money

[open ivy]

Please recognize your skills and privilege here! I don't have such privilege and I have to include "annoying" people in my social circle in order to avoid being very isolated. Which, honestly with the "gentle" social boundaries I learned to set to keep them from taking too much of my time it isn't all that bad.

Conversely, I have been learning to recognize my white privilege because racism is a problem (USA). I learned to be willing to have people of color explain to me how privileged it is to be white because well it is even today.

[next berry]

Calling me privileged and annoying is a great way to go from being ignored to being fully blocked. What the hell is your issue?

[open ivy]

I am calling myself annoying lol. You are rejecting me because I was being annoying. You have the privilege of having enough people in your life you can afford to reject people. I have my own set of privilege.

[next berry]

<@&831776746206265384> are you seeing the second half of this message? This individual is deranged

[peak halo]

If you feel like the two of you are at an impasse, you can mutually disengage.

[next berry]

Bringing up racial politics in a python career discussion channel is insane

[open ivy]

I really feel that I just don't belong in mainstream industry. Some of the harshest criticisms aimed at me (not just from turn28) have been in work-related industry-centric forums like this one.

In other social circles this doesn't happen to me nearly as much! People actually include me even if nothing is perfect. But these social circles tend to be "kind misfits" who, when they work in industry, feel culturally disengaged. The criticisms tend to be constructive criticisms such as "I like X, although Y is a concern, maybe Z could help" rather than "I can't continue this conversation."

Of course I am generalizing here? Industry is big enough that there are exceptions, and I will try to find them. But for those of who who feel like they don't fit in, you all Are. Not. Alone.

[peak halo]

I need to talk to the other mods about this, so I'd appreciate if we can put this conversation to rest for the time being.

[terse fox]

i mean python and the trio (html,css and js)

python is good for ai automation cybersecurity and alot of else/while the trio is only for making web pages and apps

[barren summit]

I’m currently running a bootstrapped startup that is already generating revenue from local market, though still small and somewhat seasonal income. It will shown good potential in the global market, but scaling it further requires capital. I’m open to opportunities roles, collaborations, or funding and would be glad to share more with anyone genuinely interested.

[open ivy]

Talk to people. You are miles ahead of others for actually getting income! Talk especially those who are raising VC or are investing in companies. And those who understand the business side (not me, sadly)

Don't worry about it being stolen.

[barren summit]

The idea comes from observation; many sellers struggle to stay profitable because platform costs eat into their margins. And those who own platform cost a lot, but our python application focuses on helping sellers operate more sustainably, while giving business opportunities for logistics providers at minimal setup and management with full data control, pricing and many other which those platform restrict them.

[next berry]

Welcome to DM a deck if you wish

[open ivy]

What I like about startups is that the customer is always right. Meaning you are generally doing things to help the customer out instead of just cementing vendor lock in.

You can talk to other people, those with a better business sense than me, to learn more.

[fringe sphinx]

Try one of the off topic channels

[mental basalt]

okay thanks will do sorrry about that being in the wrong place

[fringe sphinx]

I can't read a thing.

[mental basalt]

so im not breaking any channel rules ill be deleting the message from here i moved it to #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[peak halo]

!clban 1400250393212092578 Advertising account

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @tight furnace permanently.

[true star]

Hey where can i go to ask questions related to learning python

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion

[noble rapids]

if i have basic python skills what feild should i go on?

[trim crypt]

anything you want or like to do

[dull belfry]

Which are some viable and in demand jobs that align with software development or software engineering

[jagged locust]

Software Engineer

[dull belfry]

🥹

[noble rapids]

thats what i am asking what i can do?

[trim crypt]

Thats what I'm asking. What do you want to do? What do you like to do?

[noble rapids]

my brain isnt braining

[noble rapids]

oh yeah so i like to do automation and stuff like an algorithm that do the work automaticly

idk give me suggetions

[green python]

Hiii, I'm a high school student who's thinking of which major/what job I would like to have in the future and am currently interested in AI engineer jobs. I was wondering if there are any AI engineers who could share their experience on getting a job, how it's like being one, and the difficulties of it?

[trim crypt]

Have you done any projects that involves automation? Anything you've made recently?

[jagged locust]

It’s a job idk?

That’s aligned with software engineering and that’s in demand (at least in Europe, I know the US and India have problems in the field)

[heady brook]

What a good carrer path for me. I know a little bit about python and want to go in the coding path

[peak halo]

there are a lot of paths within programming. if you're a young person without professional experience, it's pretty much impossible to get your foot in the door without a relevant degree.

[jaunty lynx]

Hi, I am a new dev and I have made a website and im not here to promote it, I just don't know how it will get traffic. So i need some advice on it. I can share the link here if you want to check it.

[trim crypt]

Is it made with Python?

[jaunty lynx]

No, it's made with lovable.dev if you know about it...

[trim crypt]

then no, you cant share it here. Also this channel is about getting advice for careers

[jaunty lynx]

Where should I go and promote it or show it I need some advice

[next plover]

r/vibecoding

[somber delta]

When networking with recruiters on LinkedIn how do you guys introuce yourself. I'm currently testing a few openers and want to gauge how forward I'm being. For example

Hi {Recruiter Name},

Thanks for connecting.

I'm a 2nd-year Computer Science student at {University} focusing on backend and distributed systems currently building core systems for a healthcare startup.

Saw you're on the talent side at {Company Name} and wanted to connect as I'm exploring opportunities in fintech for next year.

Would be great to stay in touch.

Best regards,
{Name}

[open ivy]

It's common for people to post an anonymous version of their resume here for advice.

IF your website showcases your portfolio and said portfolio has python programming in it then it is relevant for this channel. A good portfolio with meaningful projects is helpful for getting hired and complements a good resume since it can go into much more detail, include demos, videos, etc.

If so, feel free to make a screenshot of a couple of key pages of the site, make them anonymous, and post them here for advice. Don't post a link since it would not be anonymous.

I am too technical myself to give feedback as to advertising quality. But there are others who are happy to help.

[real trench]

Tltr

[open ivy]

This isn't really "networking" as it is "cold calling", as networking is about going to events (online and in person) where people will naturally meet each other.

The difference between a random person DMing you on Discord vs going to a Python group chat and getting to know them and their interests first.

Cold calling occasionally does work just don't call it networking. Linkedin limits message counts which will reduce bot spam. I will defer judgement of your Linkedin prompt to others on this forum.

[somber delta]

Understood. Have you done cold outreach yourself?

[radiant vortex]

What does this message actually do for the recruiter though? There isn't really a need for a response, unless you have actual questions. I respect the effort but if I were a recruiter I'd imagine I'd get hundreds of these same messages about "connecting". You should ask them something worthwhile, if you're going to do it

[somber delta]

Understood

[open ivy]

I tried cold calling and cold applications. It rarely worked and I felt like a spam bot. BUT a few veterans on this forum had success with it.

The one place I had a decent RSVP rate was giving positive comments on obscure but well done Itch.io games, making sure they were adults first. The trouble is it was hard to convert that into an actual social connection.

[gray radish]

Hello, I want to start learning Python because I am interested in coding and creating my own programs. I am 14 years old and excited to begin learning how programming works. I would like to understand the basics and practice writing code. My goal is to improve my skills and eventually build my own projects. I am motivated to learn and keep getting better at coding.

[limber granite]

Hi, I'd like to get an advice on how to proceed or project suggestions tbh, I also want to hear your opinion about my humble portfolio (technical wise, the aesthetics still need a lot)

https://eyad-jawad.github.io/

Thanks for the help in advance!

[ivory compass]

wdym by cold applications u mean straight up applying on the website?

[near ocean]

Yes, or other job boards
Basically, applying to a position without having a connection to the hiring person or HR or recruiter or anyone on the team, etc

[ivory compass]

so how would you reach a recruiter? since I get called by recruiters thats nice but what if u want a proactive not a reactive approach

[mortal wedge]

While being an ai engineer pays well, it’s also extremely competitive. I’m finding it to be very degree gated, masters at a minimum and phd preferred.

[open ivy]

"Cold" means reaching out to strangers out of the blue (instead of getting to know people first at a social event of some sort, or reaching out to those you already know). So both LinkedIn and Website job applications are "cold" as is calling recruiters on LinkedIn. However if you knew someone related to the company and they said "try appliying, I will vouch for you" then that wouldn't be "cold".

I don't like cold apps because if a random user on Discord who I didn't know at all DMs me I will ignore it. BUT some forum veterans do like the strategy and it works for them. Maybe it's situational? For those who cold applications work well they tend to work very well but for many it is a struggle.

[ivory compass]

ohhh ok and do you mean like cold apps that don't work for like junior roles?

because I have experience and it works very well so I am not sure cold apps are necessarily bad could just be surivorship bias or whatever

although I do agree with you on one thing recruiters within the company vouching for you definately helps and finding a way to do that for bigger companies may be the best strat if I were to be honest

I think even with experience it's hard enough to get through to big companies. I got through to one through a recruiter and he reached out to me. I haven't tested my resume yet on big companies but I did test them with small-medium seems to going well . big ones I am not so sure yet

it's a hard one to crack and probably similar to juniors where millions apply to that same company so standing out is pretty difficult

[fringe sphinx]

Cold apps are a necessary part of the job search.

[ivory compass]

A strat for linkedin would be to create a lot of posts and before that try to connect to recruiters. Also try to connect to people that are active in linkedin in within ur industry. From there combined with your posts at least many eyes would be on your posts even if it's a glance which is good enough as long as it's a reminder of who you are. Posts should not be like "hi" but more showing your passion etc. I reckon that could help. In the end of the day you need to put yourself and that is one way to do it

[open ivy]

My best guess is that cold apps can work very well when you have a lot of career experience in industry already, which is why the well established people tend to like them. The reason they work is that in one small document (the resume) they tell the company you are proven talent with years of exp.

Earlier in the career, they may not work that well. The reason being that there isn't a one-page proof that you have done well in industry. Try a few cold apps and see how it goes. But also meet people, get along well with them, and show your passion and enthusiasm for your own portfolio projects. That goes a long way to opening doors.

[ivory compass]

I agree so I wouldn't rule it out tbh if you any of you guys are junior. Definately apply even if you don't fit the requirements as long as it's roughly half tbh

[ivory compass]

I recommend the STAR method and jake's template for resume definately helped me towards the end of my job hunt during my junior years

[open ivy]

I should go to more IRL places close to BART stations to meet people! Because every place I don't go to is a shot I didn't take.

[fringe sphinx]

There are a lot of bars near those BART stations. Think of all the shots!

[open ivy]

Hmmm, it's better to have people be drunk in a train than behind the wheel.

Makerspaces are good places for talking shop but I guess bars are more for those who favor a small-talk-first approach to socializing?

[open ivy]

STAR is also useful when taking to people about my own projects and it helps me better understand other people when they talk about thiers if they use such a method. Still ironing out the details for actually executing it properly in real-time.

[open ivy]

Do you know anyone who had success with cold apps in year 2024 or later? Without requiring a ridiculous number. Because that is when AI really started to flood online job apps.

Whatever "secret sauce" those people had could help any of us who are using the strat or even make it worth it for me to start doing them again despite my horrible failure with them in the past.

[fringe sphinx]

There's plenty of people here who've gotten interviews from sending apps to companies they don't know.

Most people get some interviews, as far as I've seen. I don't think I've heard anyone not get a single interview.

[open ivy]

If they did so recently then whatever they are doing is able to rise above the AI flood.

So hopefully we can hear about their latest and greatest tactics.

[somber delta]

I've started doing that funnily enough. Posting content and slowly building my connects just like you said with people within my niche

[somber delta]

Interesting

[open ivy]

Don't forget about a website! LinkedIn doesn't allow you to post any demos of programming at work. But a little Javascript and you can make a fun interactive demo of (a simplified version of) whatever you are doing. Websites also give a lot more control over layout for both desktop and mobile.

[somber delta]

Yep. I'm currently finishing up a few things. Once I've finished I'm building my website. Demos, project breakdowns, write-ups you name it. All up there

[open ivy]

People don't make friends by calling strangers randomly. Why should anyone care about my application? I don't have 10 years of Google.

Whoever has early-career post-AI-flood success with cold applications must be doing a very good job with something! They are giving companies a reason to care about them despite very little industry. What are they doing that is so effective?

[ivory compass]

yeahhh it's a long-term strat

[solid parcel]

There are only so many times people can tell you it's a numbers game with cold applications. You constantly act like people need some kind of a magic trick to rise above AI spam. That is not the case.

The market is rough at the moment, but the fundamentals of what makes for a good application have not changed...

[ivory compass]

I mean creating a resume is what you make of it really people only know what u tell them

I jumped to straight mid instead of junior just need to have skills for it tbh like showcasing ur project

[open ivy]

If it is a numbers game, wouldn't there be more discussions on this server about AI workflow automation?

Because AI is good at the basics if you prompt it and constrain it correctly.

[ivory compass]

like a recruiter only knows what u tell them on the resume it's up to you what to tell them

having good tech stories + knowledge to back it up I reckon is all that is required like having a vision to market urself as

ofc adapting it to the role you're applying for

[open ivy]

I think with the correct prompting AI will be able to adapt by selecting a subset. "Here is what I did ...., here is what the job requries ..., and the job description ... what are the most and least relavant things in my list for said job?"

Numbers game = Lets automate!

[ivory compass]

I think when they say a numbers game is referring to like u fail 30 times at stage 1 then 30 times at stage 2 then start getting the flow rolling

[ivory compass]

yeah that's a sniper approach to like job hunting that sounds exhausting as a hell I usually just have 1 resume and that works enough

[open ivy]

I do remember @smoky quest claiming that it isn't that much of a numbers game, at least not so much that automation becomes worth it (or was it someone else who is active on these forums instead?)

And that yes you do need to taylor resumes! Not just shotgun them.

[ivory compass]

meh I guess we agree to disagree. I just found it more effective doing a shotgun approach and probably im more privileged to do it since i live in a big city

I can imagine in a small town it probably makes a lot of sense for tayloring resumes

[solid parcel]

Agreed having one is generally the optimal approach when it comes to time investment vs output.

If you want to have some light tailoring, one thing you can do is have a summary section at the top including the most pertinent accomplishments from your work. It's easy to swap bullets in and out of there as required, depending on the core competencies different roles are looking for

[open ivy]

You mean for in-office work where there is less places to commute to?

Also, was this since year 2024?

[ivory compass]

yeah exactly I found it worth more value of my time to shotgun

[ivory compass]

for when I was junior it was around late 2022 and mid 2023

but also that's another idea as well like there is less competition with less places to commute or outskirts i guess it's called

[smoky quest]

that's fine when you are a junior in a single specialty (ex: frontend).
Maintaining a master resume with the relevant personas is pretty chill and easy. It's not like you do one for each job ad

[ivory compass]

like maybe take a job that's a pain for a while then with experience change

[ivory compass]

yeah I meant if you're tayloring it for each job ad that sounds exhausting

[open ivy]

This was before the AI-flood. So @solid parcel's strategy of "lightly tayloring" was probably best back then.

As times change tools change, and very few people seem to be talking about how properly to use AI for this task (or at least to help out, even if certain steps remain human). Let the AI do the exhausting menial work while we strategize.

[ivory compass]

I mean people were saying the same thing when I was applying "it's over no jobs for juniors"

[solid parcel]

Again, AI has not changed things that much... There are more CVs to compete with and they're a bit more polished than before, but the same strategies people have been leveraging for years still work.

[ivory compass]

I've heard the same old doom and gloom so u can see why im a bit skeptical when i sense it with the "AI-flood" type theme since they were saying something similar back then

[mortal wedge]

I think dramatically shifting the market to an employers market while making it difficult to surface good resumes due to most being AI bolstered has changed a lot

[ivory compass]

although I will be open to using AI if I sense my response is not adequate rn I guess we'll see with those big companies hahaha that I really want

[mortal wedge]

In normal times I wouldn’t be unemployed for more than a month. Now I’m closing on two years

[ivory compass]

is that with experience fr?

[mortal wedge]

A ton of experience and professional accolades

[ivory compass]

I guess I can't argue against that if it's your experience after all

[solid parcel]

Valid, a more accurate restating of my message would be that it hasn't changed much in terms of optimal strategy for applications. Difficulty of landing a role has increased, the way to go about it remains largely the same

[mortal wedge]

That’s fair

[ivory compass]

I guess I mean if you're junior for some odd reason indeed and linkedin never rly worked for me much

I had to find alternative ones that helped me find a job I cant rememebr the name exactly

[mortal wedge]

I feel really bad for entry level and juniors rn

[open ivy]

How do we prompt an AI or a script to fill out my college and GPA and workaday accounts? And not get flagged as a spam bot?

How do we get it to taylor a resume, or at least catch errors when we leave out a bullet point that was relevant or make a formatting error?

How do we get AI to search for jobs that better match me rather than just "any old job"? This may be the most important part.

How can it help with tayloring cover letters? Probably not just "one shot prompt and done", there are better ways.

These topics are widely under-discussed in this forum! AI is a tool, lets learn how to best use it.

[ivory compass]

sameeee the amount of doom and gloom flooding my feed whenever I search a little bit is so much

it's always ai is gonna take over it's so sad I can't imagine someone lookin now

[open ivy]

AI is only helpful when cold applications is a numbers game. I would avoid using it for the closest couple dozen in-office jobs to wherever you live as those deserve more thought.

[mortal wedge]

I just eradicated my LinkedIn feed

[smoky quest]

The more people talk about it, the more people like me will add automated checks and flags to insta-reject these candidates

[open ivy]

Is there a way to RSS LinkedIn posts? Where you choose the feed.

[mortal wedge]

Found an extension that disables feeds on various sites in case you just want to use Facebook for messenger or LinkedIn for job postings

AFAIK LinkedIn has disabled large portions of their apis due to bots so I’d be surprised if they had something like that

[solid parcel]

Yup, they expose a couple of extremely limited APIs that throttle at laughably low rates.

[open ivy]

How can they tell that AI is lightly tailoring the resume I added by selecting a subset of a larger resume I hand-wrote for me? Or that the GPA wasn't manually filled out by a human? Or that there is a slight adjustment to a cover letter I wrote to emphasize a particular requirement.

[smoky quest]

The converse is also true: the more the checks and flags are described, the more people will try to code work arounds

[ivory compass]

heh I guess one way is if you're in the uk applying for jobs and your resume is in american english
maybe that's one way lol

argh discord is addictive I need to slepe to go to the office what am I doin

[solid parcel]

Ahhh, are you in the UK too? 😁

[ivory compass]

yeahhhh

[open ivy]

Yes. This is why we should be discussing the proper way to use AI to not be flagged as spam.

AI only is useful if it is a numbers game. Otherwise no real benefit from saving a few clicks.

[solid parcel]

What do you do/where do you work? 👀

[ivory compass]

london based was fe engineer but tryna transition to be

[solid parcel]

Ah, awesome. I'm doing DevOps/Infrastructure shenanigans at Lloyds Bank, and moving internally to an SRE role next month. Also London based!

[ivory compass]

yeah london is doin alright rn so I could be delusion if others are struggling that much

[solid parcel]

I speak to a few engineers that are further North, and I'm certainly glad to be London based right now

It's rough out there! There are roles, but much more competition than a couple of years back

[ivory compass]

yeahhh if thats the case then it makes a lot of sense of what people are saying rn cuz london is a tech hub

anyway im gonna sleep guys nice chatting with you all

[open ivy]

This is why I want to use AI to boost my numbers game.

[mortal wedge]

The competition is next level. 3k responses per role? Crazy

[open ivy]

Is the amount of time in terms of man hours spent getting a job any higher? Most of that 3000 is AI spam and not even attempting "proper" AI use the way I would do it.

If it's 10 times easier and there are 10 times more apps total time spent is the same.

[mortal wedge]

The problem is that hiring pipelines are not equipped to handle it. It's a similar problem with universities, except worse. They're not equipped to deal with either the flood of applicants or how superficially similar the resumes seem to one another

So they gate on easy stuff. No PhD, toss. Not currently employed, toss. etc

I guess it's still better than some of the personality assessment tests I've seen going around with job postings. Like 100-300 personality questions

[open ivy]

Ok so are you saying that if your application isn't perfect, it is basically hopeless?

Thankfully cold applications isn't the only way to get a job.

But are all cold apps spammed up? I have seen job applications advertised on Discord servers but not online on the website. Is that a way to avoid most spam?

[mortal wedge]

I mean, yeah, if you have the connections, use them. A human connection instantly highlights you as not just a potentially completely fake set of credentials

It's just that even connections don't go as far as they used to, but they still go further than cold applying

They'll at least get you a conversation, often enough

[open ivy]

We also can make new connections as well by going to places, etc.

[dull belfry]

do you think the emergence of AI tools have made programming cheap and accessible to everyone.
and making a software is just like making an instagram post?

[pine sleet]

depends on the complexity of the software

but making simple stuff is a lot more accessible and approachable for people with no experience

[smoky quest]

calculators did make computations cheap and accessible to everyone too. Yet we still see accountants and scientists

[noble rapids]

i build small project like it takes number and prints even or odd and i make some games roll dice and some number guessing and if else statements game idk build large stuff now

[trim crypt]

But none of those involved automation, does it?

[noble rapids]

nowdays you can do freelancing and have online clients

[noble rapids]

yeah like i watch a tutorial and practice that

idk what does it look like

[trim crypt]

What tutorial did you watch that does automation in it?

[noble rapids]

9hr python projects which have everything in 9hour

[trim crypt]

Are you saying that you've not finished learning the basics yet?

[trim crypt]

idk what those are but considering you havn't mentioned a single project you can do that involves automation, its likely that the youtube you've watched is not helpful in your pursuit for automation.

[noble rapids]

somewhat but i know basic loops funtions,data types,variable, logical operators, condition. and all but when i build somthing from it i stuck

[trim crypt]

Try build a file organizer. When you run this script, it takes a file path (e.g. to your Downloads folder) and organizes different file types into different folders (e.g. mp3 files go into the download_music folder, png/jpg/gif go into the download_image folder, etc)

[noble rapids]

https://youtu.be/NpmFbWO6HPU?si=PiJ2l_8qrn9Y-nv-

this one i just do that to get skilled in one language for now

[noble rapids]

oh ohk thanks i got the idea i will try doing that

[trim crypt]

Try to do it without getting any help/AI

[noble rapids]

oka

[jagged locust]

Seems less stable tbf and less lucrative

But that’s only my opinion

[noble rapids]

and you can get any work you want to do no employees lecturing you more creative

[jagged locust]

Whatever works for you! I just don't really personally like that aha

[green python]

I see, but would the job market improve in the future?

[solid parcel]

There's already high demand for the skillset but, off the back of LLMs coming onto the scene, there's a huge amount more interest in going into AI engineering. I'd be surprised if the role were to stop being in high demand at least for the next few years, but that doesn't necessarily mean it'll be easier to land a role if the number of engineers with that skillset increases equivalently.

[obtuse pine]

helllo

anyone wanna join my coding group

[unique quest]

Anyone can help me

Because this is always is appear

[balmy mural]

As I mentioned before. I didn't have the latest or greatest tactics. Just a normal email, 3 years of experience in a consulting company, and applying to jobs that actually fit my skills instead of every single job that I see.
I did not have to automate finding jobs. I did not have to automate tailoring my resume. I did not have to automate anything.
I was at an even bigger disadvantage due to speaking only English in a new country. Less jobs available, not a local.

It's not direct connections, but two of my previous colleagues put in a good word for me and put me into direct contact with good connections they already had in the country. Those didn't even lead to an interview 🤷

[unique quest]

I wanna anyone help me 🙏

[vivid turtle]

this is #career-advice. If you want help with Python, I suggest reading #❓｜how-to-get-help

[green python]

oh i see

[hearty island]

i am getting really tired of carrying my coworker. i’ve let my boss know at this point and he’s been aware of it too.

[royal meadow]

why isnt there a career path called pytology

[next berry]

What?

[royal meadow]

my sister makes her master currenty in psychology and i just came up with that name lol - during phone call

[trim crypt]

what is a pytologoy?

[royal meadow]

an expert in python

[stray arrow]

snek

[next berry]

<@&831776746206265384> off topic

[peak halo]

let's talk about careers.

[solid parcel]

Speaking of, I met my new team today! I like them! And happily, the skip level already likes me. Sounds like they're pretty early on in what they're doing. I'll be able to play a big part in shaping an SRE framework that tons of teams across the bank will be using, as well as helping them improve observability, adopt error budgets, add automated remediations. All that good stuff.

[balmy mural]

Nice! I'm in my first week with my new team. Working on a SaaS low-code platform. They're currently the only company using their own low-code platform, but looking to onboard their first partner onto it in the coming year, and then slowly shift from having clients on the platform to having partners using it instead of clients themselves. Lots of opportunity to grow into

[solid parcel]

Is this you building out the platform rather than using it, then?

[open ivy]

**Whatever you did worked ** without an excessive number of applications and despite immigration challenges, so it is notable. And 3 years of industry isn't that much.

I sent out 800 applications back in 2023, before the 2024 AI flood, and got zero offers. I am not alone in this boat! Your combination of tactics works FAR better than what a lot of us did.

A few questions:

1. What year was this in, what country, and how many applications did it take?
2. What specific skills (keywords, etc) did you look for instead of just "programming jobs in your language"?
3. Did you seek out in-office jobs. Those are supposed to be easier to get than remote jobs? For those of us on a visa, did you have a way to find "immigrant friendly" companies?
4. Did you go for the company websites instead of LinkedIn? I've heard this is better.
5. Did you apply to anything that wasn't publicly advertised online? Like on a Discord server, at a fair, etc.
6. Did you skip applications with excessive lengthy questions? Or did you go for them because you were hoping they would weed out most other applicants.
7. How did you follow up after the initial application and after the interviews? Can you give a sample anonymized follow-up email? Immediate or delayed?
8. Were your offer(s) at companies for which you didn't know any contacts whatsoever before the applications? As in a completely cold application.
9. (This one is a big ask!) If you could show us two job different anonymized job descriptions with corresponding anonymized tailored resumes and cover letters. It would show us what "tailoring" is actually like.

The biggest problem for cold apps for a lot of us is a lack of feedback so we don't fix what is broken. I got so few interviews no patterns emerged (except for startups being better for me, maybe?). I have my anon resume ready if anyone is willing to review, but I know you are all busy. But there are many knobs to turn in the application process besides the resume!

[open ivy]

Oh nice! Do they expect you to architect the software, given it is early and less has crystalized?

[balmy mural]

Bit of both while shifting more towards building it out. Most of their sprint hours currently seem to go towards building out the platform though

[woven shard]

Hell yeah

[fringe sphinx]

We understand you are 'anti cold apps'. You're bordering on preaching at this point. Cold apps work for many people and are a necessary part of job hunting. The standard and objectively optimal advice is: try multiple strategies simultaneously.

[mortal wedge]

Feel to post/share your anon resume.

[mighty spire]

Well some of the questions are interesting for me too to be fair.

so it doesnt really feel like an anti cold apps thing it seems more like usefull questions to me

[solid parcel]

The framework will primarily be about process rather than software. As for the other parts, too early for me to have much visibility!

Plenty of work to be getting on with, though. For one, we've got about 80,000 repos across the org that we need teams to migrate 😆

[fringe sphinx]

There's a longer history here. My general advice is: it's impossible to optimize for an opaque process (hiring): you try your best, continue to improve the resume, and keep trying. People get and don't get jobs for many reasons, including many unrelated to the applicant.

[open ivy]

I don't think this is giving @balmy mural due credit. Their strategy worked. On a visa holder. Post 2024 AI flood even (I think).

Poker has a lot of luck but quite a bit of skill.

[fringe sphinx]

But you still have to play the game.

[open ivy]

There are enough people currently playing the cold app game that they could benefit from @balmy mural's successful strategy so long as they adapt it to their situations.

And with enough of a game plan I will jump in too!

[open ivy]

My current resume

[whole flare]

1015? congratulations on turning 1011+!

also, is there a reason for your education section not to be in reverse chrono order?

[open ivy]

Oops! One of many reasons you need a human to check it.

Mistakes can also be introduced in tailoring a resume. That is one possible AI prompt:

"Dear Claude, Here is my original resume and tailored resume. Do not change teh content of the tailored resume, but please look for and fix any errors".

[open ivy]

It's not reverse chronological order, it goes Ugrad, then masters, than PhD (the letters PhD was removed when I anonomized it but "write huge papers" is more accurate of what you actually do lol).

Ugrad started in 2008, masters started in 2012, PhD started in 2014. Ugrad is listed first, masters second, and PhD third. So that is correct order.

[whole flare]

my bad, I meant why is it not in reverse chrono

[open ivy]

Direct chrono feels better for me? No real other reason.

This is one of many many little decisions in the resume and job application process that different people will fight over and some have very strong superstitions. Like betters in casinos. But unlike roulette, there are indeed people who have much better cold app strategies than most of us.

[open ivy]

Oh man that will be difficult. Set up a batch automation process and it runs for a while ... until it doesn't because of some weird configuration or network issue.

I have been there with smaller stuff, not easy. Harder to debug because more black box failures. Which is why they are paying you.

[smoky quest]

that's not controversial.
Resumes are read top to bottom and the reader can drop out at any time. So you always put the information in decreasing importance

[solid parcel]

i.e lead with the PhD in terms of education, not the undergrad.

[open ivy]

Huh, when I read CVs, I prefer direct order as if it is a tiny biography. I easily skip to the end if need be.

BUT more people say reverse is better, and neither format looks bad, so I will reverse it.

Projects are more important (current) at this point so they will be listed first.

[smoky quest]

how often do you read CVs as a member of the hiring team?

[near ocean]

Your current or old projects are not more important than multiple degrees including a PhD

[open ivy]

Thats a good point. If I had to scan 10000 resumes in a month then I may start preferring reverse chronological.

At a slower pace the "tell it as a story" feels more natural. But when you have 10 seconds that changes.

[mortal wedge]

You don’t have to give details like dormancy of projects on your resume. That sort of info is what you’d share when they ask more about the project in an interview. The description is a bit of a teaser for them to ask more then you can speak to the project then

[open ivy]

This is one of many, many, MANY mistakes I made in my cold app strategy (search, resume, cover letter, questions, follow up) that felt right at the time but was wrong. And if I lost a job opportunity for it then I would be none the wiser, no feedback!

Which is why I asked Guitar for a detailed breakdown, as they had way more success! If there are hundred knobs to tune and each one they gained a 5% relative success rate boost that adds up to a lot!

[open ivy]

So I should just lump it together in projects and put dates? With "2024-current" vs "2023-2024" which gives information as to dormant vs active? That generally makes sense. I don't see it as better or worse than what I have but if you think it is better I can go for it.

As my networking strat starts to (slowly!) work people have been asking me for the resume from time to time.

[mortal wedge]

You’re at a stage in your career where it’s rough re:resume. Where you both want to fill the page but don’t have enough industry experience to do so.

Add a skills section. It helps reduce friction for recruiters who may otherwise toss a resume if they have to spend too much time figuring out if you have the needed skills.

Skills section will allow you to write everything you’ve touched and then you. An leave high impact projects/bullets for the stuff that best show your skill and that you’re comfortable speaking in depth towards.

I’d also combine a couple billets that feel awkward on their own like enhanced message…. Modified the awl database to allow for this.

And just as a sanity reminder, these may seem like minor nitpicks and you’d be right to think so. But the market is busted rn so anything that improves odds is valuable

[ivory compass]

the thing about this resume is it don't show impact. If I were to look at the first bullet point for example. You built a app for end-users but many people do that so what difference is there. If you say like I built a app for used by millions of people for example , now we see there's a difference cuz it hints scale it hints success it hints a lot of things

think about it you created a endpoint but what separates you from other people who also did the exact same thing

that's the way I think about resumes you gotta show and hint roughly who you are or what u want to be

tbf that was like my first resume just stating my responsibilities lol

as others said metrics and all that crap goes at the top of the bullet points in ur experience section

recruiters don't have much time to read so make it easy for them

[open ivy]

The trouble is it didn't make much impact, as many startups fail.

So I don't have much in the way of tangible metrics and impact, my projects are exploratory. I hope they will make an impact one day but that isn't the case yet.

They are long and challenging and interesting, but not yet impactful.

[ivory compass]

well I guess it's up to you what u want to write just know that those are your competitors

[open ivy]

My projects can be complex and skill-building without making an impact. I am working on better demos to showcase what I actually did, even if the demos are more along the lines of "cool, but not useful".

What's relevant is my skills applied to their projects, not the impact of my projects.

It's hard for me to communicate that into a resume, I am at a loss. What would you do in such a situation?

[ivory compass]

is this for junior/intern roles

[next berry]

It should be in reverse chronological order. The first few lines are the most anyone would read, why would we care about undergrad

[mortal wedge]

Reverse chrono is sort of an expected standard due to it essentially listing things in relevance/impact order.

[open ivy]

Yes I changed it. People who have 10 seconds to look at a resume are in a different situation than me who when I am browsing someone's site for over a minute per page (an actual website, not the instant dopamine social media feed pace).

[mortal wedge]

Since in the hiring pipeline there's a recency bias

I love how I worded that like an engineer/scientist

People pay more attention to the most recent stuff

and assume other stuff you've forgotten or is not what you're currently prepared to do

[open ivy]

I am not sure? If I have a lot of experience outside of industry but little in industry, is that junior? It's not unfair to pay me a bit less while I learn the ropes of a real company that is not just a super tiny startup.

[mortal wedge]

That's unfortunately junior

Is it fair? Fairness sadly doesn't come into this. Many hiring pipelines/managers essentially assume non-industry experience just didn't happen.

It goes industry experience > Academia > everything else

[open ivy]

Generally junior roles still pay me enough to live on modestly so it's not the end of the world.

[mortal wedge]

It's a hirer's market rn

unfortunately

[open ivy]

I guess I have to find the exception to this rule?

[next berry]

The average hiring manager/HR drone isn't gonna care about spending time on anything of yours. Maybe a potential manager once you've passed entry interviews.

[mortal wedge]

I will say that the only time projects matter is at th ehiring manager/interview stage. Maybe sometimes in recruiting if it's especially impressive or if they have deep technical background. But honestly at the recruiting stage the only check they might do on projects is just as a way to make sure you exist

Most recruiting staff generally don't have the technical expertise to understand nor the time to care about personal projects

[mortal wedge]

Everyone draws the line in different places for this kind of thing and I don't want to necessarily condone lying, but.... I will make the observation that if many are lying/misrepresenting things on a resume, shuffling some learned skills/experiences into work experience or academia when you have already mastered the skill is not the worst kind of lie you can make on a resume.

[solid parcel]

Honestly I'm yet to come across a recruiter who's deeply technical. To the extent that it's noteworthy and impressive to me if they even have a basic grasp on hot topics and technical debates in my domain, because even that passing awareness appears to be a rarity

[open ivy]

Interesting, because I will have an interview soon with someone who's startup they just launched is to build a better system for finding talent that addresses this very issue.

[mortal wedge]

Haha nice

[mortal wedge]

In all my years, I think I may have across maybe one? Two tops. And even then, mostly enough for familiarity/understanding, not a deep dive

Which is fair, honestly

[smoky quest]

That's quite sad to hear that type of experience.
Targeting startups has enabled me to get the complete reverse experience though

[open ivy]

The solution then is to go though a different path than "HR drone" (your point stands but the word drone is a bit harsh, some people can be the most boring person at work but at 5:01 pm they engage their brain on cool fun things).

Maybe CTO's at small companies?

[mortal wedge]

The problem is that the general hiring pipeline for most applicants/situations is ATS->HR/recruiter screen -> Hiring manager/???

Any step in that process you can skip is great.

[open ivy]

If the startup is small enough the CEO is the HR is the CTO.

[solid parcel]

Interesting, yeah I've never been in the startup world, I could see why that would be different

[next berry]

What

[mortal wedge]

I've worked mostly in the startup space. Kinda want to leave it, though. It has early career advantages

[solid parcel]

He's just saying in tiny orgs, people tend to wear multiple hats, so it makes sense for lines between hiring and technical responsibilities to blur in a way they don't in larger orgs.

[open ivy]

At my last startup there was one "people person" (CEO) and one CTO but everyone else worked on non-people-pushing tasks. CEO and CTO was still separate, maybe that is a common pattern.

[mortal wedge]

It's a double edged sword.

[smoky quest]

if you want impact and high growth, that could be a fun space to try out!

[mortal wedge]

Upsides: you get to do a lot of things that isn't necessarily within your job description. Downsides: you have to do a lot of things that aren't necessarily within your job description

[open ivy]

A common trajectory: startups than big companies.

Of cource there is a HUGE gap between "startup" and "trillion dollar market cap". A 500million market cap is a big enough company that they aren't burning VC (usually!) and are stable but small enough you can get to know the CEO in person.

[next berry]

I'm acutely aware of the concept having exited startups and gone into VC

[next berry]

At least historically this was a pretty big red flag tbh. Should be able to assemble a half decent team (if not outsourced) within weeks. Otherwise you're not selling vision effectively.

[solid parcel]

My impression from the outside (and the data I've seen) is that it's generally more pressure for less compensation (averaging out across failures and moonshot successes).

I think being in that space is largely a matter of people being drawn to an environment where they can have an outsized impact, work with less restrictions, and have the potential for high returns alongside that, which are all very valid.

[mortal wedge]

Yeah, pretty much. Additional caveats that in R&D the work is more exciting. Whereas larger companies will often do more maintenance of existing projects. In startups you can also own projects where at a larger companies they'd want you to have a decade of experience first.

But there will be higher pressure, lag in compensation for your career tract, and other downsides

[open ivy]

Personally I would prefer a company slightly more well established than a startup. But still would prefer a smaller company than huge behemoths that feel like you are feeding a giant monopoly.

If given my choice in a perfect world...

[solid parcel]

It's an intriguing idea, though honestly I'm not sure at what stage in my life I'd jump into it. I suspect I'll always value the stability of more established orgs. Currently looking to build wealth, and in a few years from now, I could see my focus shifting to a family

[solid parcel]

May be worth considering scaleups, then

[smoky quest]

Sure, that's entirely up to you.

[open ivy]

"Scaleups", neat little keyword to search by.

[smoky quest]

I am more of a work hard, play hard type, so startups are awesome for that

[white ravine]

Can i use python to make mods?

[peak halo]

mods for what? if something is written in language x, it's generally true that you can modify it using language x.

[white ravine]

For games and stuff i keep seeing that its only available through c++

[peak halo]

if something is written in C++, the process for modifying its user-facing behavior in Python would vary wildly and probably be quite difficult.
This is the career discussion channel. Did you have a question about careers?

[white ravine]

Yeah is it true that after i pass my python classes i will get the certificate that will help in college and possibly finding a job in banks

[peak halo]

I'm not aware of any Python-specific certificates that increase your perceived value as an employee.

[white ravine]

Dang well thanks for answering

[dull belfry]

do you think that LLM would continue to improve and keep impacting the software industry
or did it reach its maximum capability

[mighty spire]

It will keep impacting the industry, but there are huge economic concerns about the long term pricing and quality of models. As well there is a very posible barrier in current models as they may not be able to bypass average programing skills due to the model.

A more significant change could happen thougth, and there are good strategies, but for the current models that are mostly LLM's i see them close to the capability gap.

That isnt a ceiling on AI potential thougth, but in LLM, specially in lenguage aplications.

[alpine coral]

I'm emerging my career to big data, so ive been learning to be a data analytics, what i want to mean is what roadmap i should be following, because ive already studied what it is data structures, the class node, and right now i'm focus with SQL Server because university project so i want to hear an opinion and sorry if my english could be misunderstood

[alpine coral]

when i get to vacations i though about learn visualizations tools as Power BI

[balmy mural]

I'll assume you're asking in good faith and not just to preach about how it's not a viable option.

1. This year. Signed contract 2 weeks ago. Netherlands. 24 applications total. Additionally, not on a work visa, but a partner visa.
2. No specific keywords. Searched for "python developer" and "C# developer".
3. Filtered on hybrid/office roles. I didn't want to do full remote. No specific advice for your second point, but I mostly saw that jobs that support a HSM visa mention they do sponsorships in the job description.
4. Found on LinkedIn/Indeed, applied via their website if possible.
5. No
6. None of them asked lengthy questions. But a cover letter was a mandatory field for almost all of them.
7. No follow up after application. Most of them auto reply with their expected timeline. Most of them stuck to their timeline +- 2 days. Two or three companies ghosted.
   Interviews I followed up 1-2 days after their indicated response time if they had not responded yet.
8. Yes. I didn't know a single person at any of the companies I applied/interviewed with.
9. I didn't tailor my application. I applied to jobs that my experience/CV matched already. Cover letter I'm not going to anonymize/upload. But I can share my latest CV and 2 job posts after work today. And share the framework I use for whipping up cover letters

[mortal wedge]

It is genuinely difficult to get a read on the current job market for many reasons. This is even before accounting for region and industry specific issues

[red path]

hey

[mortal wedge]

I’ll be honest, I think my biggest roadblock isn’t my knowledge, skill, or accomplishments anymore. It’s the exhaustion and desperation. I also really hate any level of dishonesty even if it seems somewhat required and even expected in the job hunting process.

[hearty sierra]

Can relate. I have a sizeable gap in employment and I've been encouraged by both family and friends to lie about it to get another job. But I don't like being a liar or employing deception tactics. I haven't taken their advice but I'm also becoming increasingly desperate for work as the months go by and the gap gets even longer. Now it seems my only options are either to lie about it or remain unemployed.

[mortal wedge]

I'm "lying" now. In the sense that I said I'm contracting during this period of unemployment. It's not a strict lie, as a friend of mine who is high up in a company threw me a contract role, but it's definitely deceptive to make it seem like I've had steaddy contracts this whole period.

But yeah, I.... really got upset when I found a role that I seemed really well suited for that basically told people after you click the submission button and fill out the forms that if you're unemployed don't apply

(And a lot of people just assuming consulting = unemployment now anyway)

And it makes me uncomfortable to even do this

[hearty sierra]

One of my contractor friends did this, he basically said he was employed with steady contract work for two months when in fact he was taking a vacation halfway around the world. Maybe I've just been stupid this whole time for trying to stick to my principles rather than lying, maybe lying is just a necessary evil now.

[mortal wedge]

I'm at a point where it's hard to justify following my morals when the alternative is homelessness

And the idea of just not hiring unemployed people in this era of layoffs is insane and aggravating.

Either way, I objectively know I can't bring this sort of energy into an interview, even having thoughts like this will hurt.

[hearty sierra]

Completely understandable tbh

[hearty sierra]

All of the companies I've put in applications for seem to do this sort of thing all the time, repeatedly reposting the same job listings over and over hoping that the ideal candidate will show up (they never do). Meanwhile unemployed people have to keep applying hoping that they'll hear something back eventually and not be completely ghosted. It is very tiring and infuriating.

[smoky quest]

have you posted your resume for feedback and review here?

[hearty sierra]

Is that a thing you can do here? Like in this channel?

[winter trench]

https://tenor.com/view/black-guy-black-guy-eating-black-guy-eating-leaf-cone-head-black-cone-head-gif-11358516211180760660

[smoky quest]

yep

Feel free to post an anonymized version

[smoky quest]

Not the place to shitpost

[winter trench]

Nah this is me listening

[boreal osprey]

@hearty sierra enlighten me on the competition. Aside from the competition, my problem is this. How can't you get a job? Besides, what kind of programmer are you? if you're more of the low-level or network programmers then you shouldn't have any problems. I just dont see why you can't get a job. Is it because companies just type in chatgpt to do all the work for them to "cut costs"?

[boreal osprey]

i saw a dude literally explaining to someone how to structure their presentations over here the other day (a few months back i dont even remember) but you're definitely getting good help here

[hearty sierra]

I was just saying that there's tons of competition in the freelancer industry for software. Because everyone wants to do it, and people can easily find someone who can work for less money than you.

I can't get a job currently because I have an employment gap that no employer can seem to look past. I'm a graduate with 5+ years of embedded/desktop programming experience.

[boreal osprey]

FIVE YEARS? holy. Problem is, don't they care about quality? yes they can do it cheaper but can they do it just as good? And is the reason why you can't get a job, well, because of ai slop?

[boreal osprey]

Genuinely i dont know how to help you gng. Im barely graduating from hs and seeing a dude with 5 years of programming experience tell me that he hasnt found a job yet makes me lose hope

[hearty sierra]

I don't think it's because of AI slop, that's more been affecting junior devs and people newer to the industry than me.

[hearty sierra]

Just don't be like me and maintain consistent employment, that was my only mistake.

[smoky quest]

Now that I have a bit more time:

• It's too casual. Remove things like (in construction) or My Big Projects and the arm thing
• For your portfolio, focus on presenting them well, even if it's just a small subset, rather than trying to do it all.
• Think about it like a sales job. It's not about what you want to tell people, it's what you want them to learn about you
• As discussed earlier, use the reverse chronological order
• Your industry experience is not clear on your tasks and role. You may want to look at the STAR model
• You haven't described the impact or results of the work done in your PHD
• No one cares about old vs current projects. It's all about the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏
• Similarly, remove stuff like when you say your project is dormant. The reader is not your friend, they are your customer
• For your texture generation, remove the non AI based and replace it with the method you used

But props for sharing your resume!

[boreal osprey]

Eh... I wanna learn python and some lower level languages first and then get a job. gotta have the knowledge first... Also, have you tried learning C or ASM, maybe? lower level languages are difficult but very well paying since they're the backbone of every backend

[tidal wraith]

I am new to python and i want to get good at machine learning and

[hearty sierra]

I've learned MIPS before in my college days, that's about the only assembly programming I've done. C is popular but most employers I've looked at seem to want C++ instead so I've stuck with that.

[boreal osprey]

this isn't the appropriate channel! #python-discussion is a better general channel, but #agents-and-llms would be a better channel.

[vast shoal]

#data-science-and-ml is probably better for machine learning

[boreal osprey]

MIPS? whats that? But yeah ill pick up C++ after python aswell. in 2 months ill graduate from hs, any tips? trying to get into the uni of piraeus

[boreal osprey]

you've been with that pfp for god knows for how long

[hearty sierra]

Maintain consistency in your learning objectives, focus on your studies. Get at least one internship while you're in college and maintain good grades. Then when you get out you'll already have your foot in the door a bit to enter the industry proper.

[boreal osprey]

also @hearty sierra the only actual recommendation i can suggest is to try out cyber security. given how much people focus on ai and practically dont care about security, it'll be a very well paying and sought out job, because, well, hallucinations... And yeah, don't worry. In Greece we don't have college, after highschool its university.

Not sure about global reception on greek universities, but I can tell you that they're pretty good (coming from a greek)

[hearty sierra]

Ah okay, then good luck in university. Have you decided what degree you're going for yet?