career-advice

[scarlet elk]

I would assume it’d have to have a use case in industry. But most of everything in open source is pretty much copyable unless you slap a proprietary license on it then it wouldn’t be open source anymore idk 😂

But idk software is very complex. Then there is also the hardware side of it

[fast fossil]

GitHub would be the big one, but there's also GitLab (and then there are others such as Bitbucket, but I don't think those are really worth a mention (I have a feeling I'm missing like a 3rd big one though, like sth related to GitKraken ))
That'd be for code, that is
There is Huggingface and Kaggle if you're interested in OSS models and datasets for like ML and such (I still feel like I'm forgetting to mention something big 😦)

[fast fossil]

One way to get some money out of OSS would be through some sort of grants for example

[cedar thunder]

umm how did you guys learned python

[harsh river]

the right place to ask is in #python-discussion

[cedar thunder]

thanks

hi

[dense mesa]

Don't ask to ask, just say the question

[wicked sandal]

Can I dm you to ask some information

[toxic ridge]

Do we have anyone here working in a Financial Institution?

[near ocean]

And if we do? Do you have a follow up question?

[toxic ridge]

I do, but no point typing that much, if I cant find any

[near ocean]

People are unlikely to respond to questions like these because it feels like they're committing their time to a question that might be bigger than what theyre willing to answer

You should instead ask your real question and let people decide if they want to commit their time to it

[plush summit]

What is expected normally at an internship?

[toxic ridge]

Makes sense, thanks btw

So my question is, I am come from a CSE background(still in final year of my UG), love to play with machines and code. However I wanna continue with pursuing a masters in finance/financial engineering. Does anyone have any idea how to prepare for this transition, any resources I can follow to learn more and orient myself to a much suitable position in that sector

[toxic ridge]

Can you elaborate? In my experience, internships give u a hands on opportunity to work on a real project, not the ones you have had during ur education. You get to work with a team of interns/employees to utilize your soft-skills and coding skills(assuming you are a coder) with them, get to superficially know the corporate culture, learn practices followed in a company. And unlike ur education, you are mostly working on a module/component of a much bigger project.

This is all in my experience, I believe people much more experienced than me can add extra to it.

[white relic]

is an excellent summary. I would just add that the expectations for internship are usually pretty aligned with those for regular job; that is, be available during your scheduled working hours, attend meetings, report to a senior employee, deliver status updates, and follow regulatory/company policies like recording how you spend your time. There may also be internship-specific expectations, such as prepare and deliver a presentation on what you learned.

[fringe sphinx]

Standard advice for anyone interested in pursuing a degree (undergrad or grad): start by looking up the degree requirements/curriculum for the program(s). That will tell you what courses/topics you will need to take, and often what courses you'd likely take first. That said, strong programming skills (especially with numpy) will be helpful, and brushing up on linear & stats. I know finance types pursuing data science masters and the math hits hard. Not so sure about pure financial engineering degrees, but the financial engineering I do/see involves a lot of linear algebra.

[dense mesa]

Which area of finance are you looking to go into? Answers will vary a lot depending on that.

I'm in the industry myself and can answer questions in that context

[toxic ridge]

Ideally I want to get into M&A, after spending some time as analyst at any IB firm

[toxic ridge]

Yeah I have spent last 1 month brushing up Stats and Linear as most of the univs I applied to, were requiring that irrespective of its just finance or financial engineering or asset management

[dense mesa]

In Europe you'd be looking at doing an MBA at a top business school, then networking your way into an IB role.

2 years of that and do the typical exit to M&A.

There's also routes into M&A from studying law and doing legal work for a few hours, but I'm not familiar with those as much

[toxic ridge]

other than getting admitted in a top school, wt all can i do to make my profile suitable for admission

[dense mesa]

That's pretty much it. Finance is a fiercely competitive field, brand name is typically more important than subject matter. At least for undergrad.

In your case you still have to learn the finance stuff, and MBA is a feasible way to do that

For breaking into finance in general, you need to be comfortable attending many networking events in general, speaking to people and learning about the field, reading articles in your own time.

M&A specifically, you can get a taste by trying to follow along an Excel DCF on YouTube, going through existing deal memos and public info, trying to piece together how they did things.

[half geode]

Today was my first day learning c it was fun

Coding was my fav thing since childhood dealing with it now is cool iam having fun

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[toxic ridge]

Thanks a lot really, its been a while since I have tried getting into the subjects, following news, but never really got the feel that I am the right path of learning and getting myself ready. Will take ur suggestion and talk again if required. What place are you from btw?

[dense mesa]

There is no right path, I was in a similar position and understanding that helped me progress quicker. Learn what you can, dig into what you don't understand. No one has a linear path with this tbh.

I used to live and work in London and I'm in Switzerland now.

[toxic ridge]

Great great, will let uk if i get in some good schl

[open ivy]

Ah, the old "cut welfare so people stop being lazy and get a job" argument.

Like getting a job is easy...

For those making this argument, maybe it is? Because if you easily get good-paying, enjoyable jobs it can be hard to relate to all the down and out people on this world.

So when we hear this platitude, maybe we can learn a thing or two from their search strategy?

[dense mesa]

Wrong channel?

[open ivy]

Not off topic because it's a job search strategy.

If you ask 12 different people about how best to find a job, you will get 12 different opinions. One person will be sure the sky is green, while another knows for a fact that it is actually bright purple. Figuring out who is correct is difficult.

You actually get a similar range of deeply-held superstitious "betting strategies" if you ask players about beating roulette. But unlike gambling which is pure luck, there are actually huge differences in success rates of job searching (luck is still a factor but skill is huge).

So this puts it into unusual territory: A world where the right kind of superstitious, illogical thinking is actually "correct" (as in it works for getting a job) but it's hard to determine which one.

If someone gets a job out of a lucky break but your strategy isn't that good they are likely to cargo-cult whatever they were doing. We must be careful not to read too much into their strategy! But if they indeed had a solid strategy with repeatable success then we should pay attention.

The former group of people will feel more precarious (rightly so, they had a lucky break), and thus be more likely to understand the reality that it is difficult to find jobs. But the latter will feel more secure and be more apt to buy into the lazy welfare argument.

So my idea may be a way to tease out who's strategy has a repeatable success.

[dense mesa]

Yeah people have different experiences and perspectives of those experiences.

They'll also have different circles of people, different anecdotes they heard, etc.

There's no correct answer at all, kinda unusual to imply that. Something works or it doesn't. A "bad" approach may get lucky, a "good" approach may not yield results for a long time.

I specifically mentioned this is advice from my context, which I hope is explicit enough in that it won't apply for different people in different situations at a different point in time.

Not sure what the comment adds to the discussion otherwise.

[open ivy]

There are huge differences in sucess rates, it seems.

[fringe sphinx]

This is the same fallacy that leads to people thinking certain funds are good because they've had repeated success, rather than merely lucky (it's very hard / nigh impossible to distinguish)

What's that book... Taleb's Black Swan talks about this a lot (in between talking about himself)

By this, I refer to conflating repeated success with validity.

[near ocean]

What does cutting welfare have to do with it though

[fringe sphinx]

Incidentally, a day or two after Zucky says he'll replace people with AI: Meta announces layoffs of lowest performing engineers. Just another excuse to mask a pending layoff.

(I believe the layoff was coming round like clockwork, and they're trying to distract)

[open ivy]

People who have an easier time getting a job don't realize how hard it is so they may want to cut welfare. See this correlation here:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2019/12/17/views-of-the-economic-system-and-social-safety-net/

[near ocean]

I dont think this has ever been brought up here in the history of the channel

[fringe sphinx]

Let's come back to career land. I think getting into the politics of welfare is far from topical.

[open ivy]

I don't agree with thier viewpoints, but I am looking to find a better job search strat not to debate politics.

[fringe sphinx]

You had to ask, tho.

[near ocean]

Well yea, it was mentioned as if we talk about screwing over the poor every day lol

[open ivy]

Well we could go back to my "lets improve cold applications" track:

1. Automation "we are in tech after all"
2. Precise description matching "pinpoint"
3. Reaching out to someone first "not so cold"
4. Finding places few other job hunters find "off the beaten track".

But I already brought up all these concerns and no one had much in the way of ideas. So today I brought up a new idea instead.

I am struggling to get my resume up to shape given that I really need to figure out how biology blends with tech and to really emphasize the importance to me of my portfolio. So as-is the cold application strategy, even with all your resume help, will not serve me well. The resume help will eventually help with networking thankfully, once I figure out how to build my unusual resume.

[open ivy]

I think we should make a running list of whenever someone is first to bring up any idea for getting jobs.

Sometimes job hunting is all about throwing the curveball and otherwise differentiating oneself from the crowd.

[acoustic grotto]

[near ocean]

Do you have previous experience? Biology/Biotech isnt really that uncommon for software people to end up in

[open ivy]

It is computational biology, not lab work.

Lab work was too much running code for me. Code written in English instead of Python. I want to write code and have my computer run it.

[toxic ridge]

Was it for me or in general bcz I don't associate myself with being in that scenario but it came right after me msg and talks abt suggestions, so felt it kinda is

[open ivy]

Not for you (I did not @ you). In general. Sorry for the confusion. If you struggle to get a job, you are not alone.

[toxic ridge]

Yeah gotcha, I am still a student rn not in that zone. Read the entire convo, so realised u were having a total different discussion, sry to bother

[near ocean]

Is this your first job?

[open ivy]

Yes, counting PhD as a job which it is since you get paid.

[dense mesa]

Gotta be that guy: there are pretty good metrics nowadays to determine luck vs manager skill. Many people conflate fund with some discretionary equity long/short, which are of course harder to measure performance for.

A market maker you've never heard of doubling funds annually over several years with high Sharpe and low drawdown is doing alright lol

[fringe sphinx]

Yah but that wasn't my statement. I was not saying you can't analyze performance, I'm saying that merely looking at 'repeated success' (edit: alone) is a poor measure.

[fast fossil]

You can ask here
especially since I might not be able to respond to you

[open ivy]

Agreed. That traits that hardly matter in actual performance get judged very strongly. So there are a lot of outcasts who have talent and long-standing interest but who are rejected from almost everywhere.

Are you an outcast? Do you have at least a little interest in history? Don't feel dismayed, remember the Jazz. The founders of jazz made a HUGE contribution to society, despite bieng (very) marginalized.

So if you feel you can't get a traditional job, don't give up on your projects and ideas. Something will come your way eventually. It may take time, but it will come.

[dense mesa]

You edited the message and it looks fairly different now.

I'm not gonna type out loads. Summary is:

Even if someone has been 100% lucky and had no skill/idiosyncratic knowledge to achieve something, repeated success is worth studying.

What was the context they were operating in? Why did they get lucky? What internal/external factors can be attributed to that? How can it be replicated under different circumstances? Etc

[fringe sphinx]

? I didnt edit it.

[dense mesa]

I'm not sure how this relates

[open ivy]

You brought up how hard it is to judge performance, which I agree with.

People have very bad metrics for judging each other (I don't have good metrics either, but I hesitate on the judging individuals part).

So when that happens the best thing to do may be to include some randomization among resonalby good applicants etc. But instead, people strongly judge small things for want of a better metric. It's not fair. Life isn't fair. But in such an unfair world, the land of social outcasts becomes an interesting place for innovation (a place to visit at least, not a place to purposely live in!).

[fast fossil]

wdym past results don't guarantee future outcomes /s

[dense mesa]

To give an example with Taleb: if you identify a market has participants making fortunes from sheer luck alone, maybe you assume there getting lucky from random, unexpected events. "Black swans" or whatever.

Do you just give up then, thinking there's no way of predicting random events, no way to have informational edge?

Or do you learn everything you can and try to also benefit from seemingly random occurrences

[fast fossil]

also on topic of luck I'd like to quote Seneca: "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity"
(interesting... this time, having quoted that many times by now, I can't help but realize that it doesn't really, fully answer the question, because now you have to figure out what opportunity is and your chance of finding/coming across one)

[dense mesa]

Same with job applications: say you and a friend both applied for the same 100 jobs over different times.

You spent hours perfecting your resume, they threw it together in 5 minutes.

If they're getting 90 callbacks and you get none, I imagine a lot of people would compare backgrounds, resume formatting and content, how and when they applied.

To discount their success because it was repeated is throwing away valuable data.

Sure it could be garbage data due to sheer luck, but why take the chance

[open ivy]

If someone gets 6 job offers per 100 applications, even just once, they definitely are better than me in terms of percentage. 6/100 is doing well but not unheard of.

I got zero for 800. Thankfully I semi-automated it, but better automation would have been nice.

Maybe I got unlucky? Maybe they got lucky? Lets do statistics. Lets say we both have a 0.01 chance, could chance alone make these numbers?

`from scipy.stats import binom
import numpy as np

Chance they get at least 6 offers:

np.sum(binom.pmf(k=np.arange(6,100), n=100, p=0.01)) # 0.00053

Chance I get zero for 800 offers:

np.sum(binom.pmf(k=0, n=800, p=0.01)) # 0.00032`

So either I got the worst tenth percent in luck and they got the top tenth of a percent, or they really indeed have a higher chance. The latter is much more likely.

There are massive differences in success rates for different people, and I think both background (expirence, portfoleo etc) and skill (how you sell yourself) plays a big role. Repeated sucess is not just "luck" in most cases.

Setting aside that networking is better in many cases...

[dense mesa]

Going off topic again, but I don't imagine your application "odds" are normally distributed. Maybe get the resume looked at?

A uni grad applying for 1000 senior manager positions is unlikely to get any call backs

[open ivy]

I am struggling with the resume, I need to emphasise my portfoleo because that is important to me and a good demonstration of skills+interest.

[dense mesa]

(for example, although I imagine some will take it literally)

[open ivy]

I did a big mixture, and generally avoided the managemnt positions. But senior developer non-manager was fair game as I have a fair amount of expirence coding.

[dense mesa]

Did you ask for feedback after each rejection? Did you act on that feedback? Did you have other people check your resume after so many applications?

[open ivy]

I asked for feedback when I (rarely) got an interview. Maybe it would ahve been worth it to ask feedback every rejection?

I think cold applications is not a good strat in general, even with resume help. I will need to combine resume help with networking or otherwise non-cold stuff. Unless I can really automate and scale out to 2000+ while personalizing each one (manually selecting a few sentences 2000 times out of a writing bank and synonym changing the keywords is not that bad so long as everything else is automated). But I am leaning to non-cold strats.

[fast fossil]

do you have a degree by chance? or previous work exp

[open ivy]

A PhD in biomedical eng.

[dense mesa]

I had to apply for ~80 places to get an internship years ago, I religiously tracked each application and its status, and asked for feedback/followed up after.

Ended up working at one of the companies later as they liked that I was diligent with this, and had offers from others

[open ivy]

But there is a gap from bieng unemplyed. Which looks bad (vicious cycles like this create smart outcasts as per my Jazz comment). And it is a bit off topic to most jobs. They want straight bio or CS.

[open ivy]

Was this before the AI auto-personalization bots really took off?

[dense mesa]

People can disagree, but it's pretty self evident that network is hugely important in this. Having any in for the company, anyone you can ask for help, is too big to ignore

[dense mesa]

I experienced the application cycle again in summer of 2024, when everyone was firing of 1000s of random apps with AI.

Held steady, got help from people I cultivated relationships with, and landed multiple offers despite a bad market

[white relic]

I'm really not sure what your "new idea" actually is. Can you put it in a few words?
From the initial comment, it sounds to me a lot like "people who want to end welfare know how to get jobs, so we should listen to them"
which has a lot of potential objections to it, but maybe you can make it more concrete for me?

[open ivy]

I am placing networking way above cold apps atm. Reasons: 1. Consolation prizes such as new relationships. 2. Not horrible to do. 3. Builds social skills. 4. Cold apps has failed me so far.

[open ivy]

It was "people who want to end welfare know how to get jobs, so we should listen to their job hunting strategies" not their politics!

I can disagree with someone 100% on politics, but if they know how to get good jobs easily than I can still learn that particular skill from them. And still 100% politically disagree.

[white relic]

I still think that's a big leap, personally.

[fast fossil]

Networking can turn out to be insanely helpful. I happen to hold a position right now in which I can potentially get someone into (at least) a junior position in less than a year's time (which I find insane). (Just anecdotal evidence of the importance of networking, I'm not offering it to anyone here...)

[open ivy]

Plenty of people here have sent hundreds of cold applications and I can't understand that strategy. Unless they really have a good automation going.

Use cold applications sparingly in terms of total time spent.

And a portfoleo may also be important.

[open ivy]

It's human nature for people who never struggled with something to not understand that it can be a big issue for other people. Empathy is limited to personal and in-network human expirences.

It takes a bit more oomph for someone to learn about struggles that are alien to them. We should all try, but sadly many people don't.

[fringe sphinx]

I think the message here has been consistently: it takes several things to succeed: a good resume, sending many cold apps (since they're "cheap' to send), and network as best as you can. There aren't many other levers to pull.

[dense mesa]

I find cold emails are more effective when someone can use their existing network as a way in.

Otherwise it's pretty ironic to complain about arbitrary metrics being used to sift through job applications.

What else is a massive corporation meant to judge you on, from a cold application?

[open ivy]

"use thier existing network" is not a cold email. It's a friend referral.

[spare mortar]

One issue is being able to get from a situation of "I can do something or other in python" to a state of "I have done enough that I can list in a portfolio and realistically be useful somewhere and apply for jobs"

[dense mesa]

That's not what I said, at all. I mean something like:

"Hey X at ABC. I'm reaching out as I heard great things from friend Y about your company and the culture there. Could we get an online coffee at some point? If you're busy, maybe an intro to person Z in your team"

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that's a strong strategy too... most people I hire come in that way, tbh.

(or via a third party recruiter)

[dense mesa]

It takes a lot of time and energy to go to networking events, learn from people, understand the job market.

People who neglect doing that, then spend 10-50 hours firing off CVs into the abyss, I don't see high probability of good outcomes

[white relic]

so if I understand the argument correctly,

1. people who don't struggle with things lack empathy for people who do.
2. some people don't struggle with job hunting because the way they naturally do things is effective.
3. so, some people lack empathy for others because they naturally are good at job hunting.
4. and we can learn something about effective job hunting by listening to people who lack empathy.

[open ivy]

I also see arbitrary metrics in personal social interaction. Social rejection is super unfair in most cases.

[dense mesa]

It may be arbitrary to you, it could also be the result of generations of people living and working together.

[fringe sphinx]

I've told this story before but, when I was hiring at a big tech company, I remember needing to hire 2 engineers... my first time working with the corporate HR. They posted the job, and told me they had hundreds of resumes in the first week and they'd need time to sift through them. I ended up interviewing and hiring from resumes dropped on my desk from my peer managers. The recruiter never did get me any resumes (she did handle the interviews from those resumes, and was happy to not have to do much work)

[dense mesa]

I used to think similarly and struggled in networking situations. Taking a different perspective and forcing myself to learn these things helped

[open ivy]

The basic argument is correct.

Minor nitpick: I wouldn't say that these people "lack empathy". I would say that empathy has blind spots.Most people struggle understanding alien struggles. For liberals, black gay women struggles etc are at least somewhat familiar to them since they read about them. But my own (unusual) problems aren't and regardless of party people rarely understood them.

[spare mortar]

I joined a hackerspace here, some user groups in the past, went to a bunch of events, enjoy doing that

[open ivy]

I find it that it takes more activation energy to network but it "gives back" this energy.

It is annoying to get up early take the bus (driving would be worse for me). It can be scary to enter a socially awkward situation.

But after 100s or resumes and nothing to show for it I feel pretty depressed and exhausted. On the other hand, networking usually gives some consolation prize such as an acquaintance or a new idea to think about.

[open ivy]

I am working on a pretty complex, involved project. It's a physics engine with metaprogramming optimization, a user interface, and other smaller tasks. Most of what I am writing myself is different than what is out there in some way, so it is an exploration.

I do wonder the best way to "advertise" this project?

[spare mortar]

go to a python user group, or conference, stuff like that

[open ivy]

I am not focusing on language itself, but indeed I am going to various geeky meetups!

[spare mortar]

reminds of the new marimo notebook editor

https://realpython.com/podcasts/rpp/230/

[fast fossil]

activation energy coming from you specifically is just so funny to me, lol

[open ivy]

Why is it more funny if it comes from me than if it comes from another person?

[pine sleet]

don't you have a background in biology

[fast fossil]

Because I recognise it as a chemistry term and you have a PhD in a field where you definitely would have covered topics related to it to some degree. That combination of occurrences and then some just makes it arbitrarily funnier to me than had it been someone who may have used it inadvertently

[open ivy]

I see.

[hard river]

Hi guys, sorry if this is the wrong chat, but maybe someone can help me understand how i can show chart of lines (on excel) on page 2, but leaving the datas used on page 1. Is it possible?

[safe coral]

So I applied to this IT job on indeed. I give them a call and they say they are actually looking to help people get certificates and I’m like what?

I got a call today and they were like would you like us to help you get the certificate and I’m like what?

[pine sleet]

did you ask them if they have a job position open

[safe coral]

They said they don’t have a job opening

[pine sleet]

weird

ignore and move on i guess

[safe coral]

So it’s a false job posting on Indeed.

[near ocean]

Many such cases

[pine sleet]

probably

[safe coral]

Yeah he was like maybe you should get the certificates so you can get a job. I was like I’m mostly applying for ML and AI jobs. He was like ohhh. I thought you were in IT specifically

[nova sedge]

I've noticed the same few companies spamming job posts: Dice, Randstad, etc

[broken oar]

i've worked as a frontend dev and also a tech support role where we used SQL. I just can't decide which path to take. I have 2 yrs of exp in frontend development but I got one interview out of 100s of applications and it just seems like an impossible job to land. I've already gotten interviews that require SQL knowledge but which path do I choose? I enjoy frontend more but I ultimately want a stable position.

[fringe sphinx]

Isn't dice a job board?

[fringe sphinx]

Can't comment only on that, other than my usual: breadth is how you get stability... be more useful. I'm biased as a DE: I think SQL is a great differentiator skill

And if you want some sql links, I can dig up a post

[broken oar]

Yeah thatd be great. Im finishing up a usemy course on sql but its foundational. Maybe something more adv

[nova sedge]

Yea, but they're spamming other job boards, and it's all from Jobs by Dice

[fringe sphinx]

#databases message

[broken oar]

Thanks appreciate it

[analog glade]

Hello everyone, does anyone know where I can start learning COMPTIA a+ or any books I should get?

[ivory sand]

Professor messer - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG49S3nxzAnnOmvg5UGVenB_qQgsh01uC

I liked to listen to his videos.

[analog glade]

It has all I need for COMPTIA+ ?

[ivory sand]

Idk.

I skipped A+ and Net+ and went straight for Sec+. I would say he covered most of what I needed.

I still recommend to go and research other sources and testing yourself on free tests

[analog glade]

ok ill start this playlist for now tysm

Im still open to see if there are more resources!

[paper ice]

Hie I'm doing python fullstack course it is worth now

[fading plover]

hey yall

im overthinking my decisions in life rn

[junior merlin]

1. Automation: AI systems are increasingly automating tasks like model building, data processing, and debugging, reducing the need for human involvement.


2. Over-Saturation: With more people entering AI, the job market could become crowded, especially for general or entry-level roles.


3. Self-Sustaining AI: AI is evolving to improve and build itself, requiring fewer humans for routine tasks.


4. Market Maturity: As AI becomes widely adopted, demand may shift to maintaining and regulating systems rather than creating them.



To stay relevant, specialization and adapting to interdisciplinary roles (e.g., AI in cybersecurity or ethics) will be key.```
How accurate is this? 
I'm kinda confused between choosing my specialization for my career between AI and cyber security

[white relic]

Hello!
Per the #rules and the channel description, this isn't a place where you can recruit or advertise work.

Please delete this message. Thanks

[gritty rivet]

The official exam objectives is an outline of all the topics, definitely refer to that frequently. There are loads of books on places like Anna's Archive, free flashcards and practice questions on the open web. I also went to bookstores and studied with what they have. Just use everything you can get your hand on and free stuff is enough

[rugged axle]

I am moving towards organizations that are participating in GSOC any advice which one should I pick ?

I was thinking of rocket.chat and one more company potentially zulip. There are few more options too

[whole storm]

Hello everyone
I'm Tunnie by name, I am from south Carolina, I'm a student of Spartanburg
Community college
I'm a girl with a light complexion
I'm in my 20's
I love to dance with friends
My best food is pizza and salad, I'm into an online e-commerce business
I make at least $20 in a month, tho I came from an orphanage home
But still I could make my dream come to pass
Even tho the background was rough
Am I welcome here?

[hard rune]

Can someone tell me what I learned in 2025 that I will get a job

[pine sleet]

Are you asking what you should learn this year in order to get a job?

[hard rune]

Yess

[pine sleet]

Can you tell us more about yourself?

[hard rune]

I am anuj kumar and pursuing BTech in computer science , recently I completed my MERN STACK path , as per industries demand , I am confused with my life , and I don't see any hope of getting a job , and this is my last year of my graduation

[next plover]

start networking, talk to people

its not what you know its who you know
is what ive heard quite a few times from people i know in IT

also if you have time, start a blog, do you make things? write about it, experiment with something? write about it

(the blog advice was stolen directly from Rem)

[hard rune]

I don't get any hope about taking any job

I also apply for jobs but am not shortlisted , I don't know why is this happening with me

[hard rune]

.

[hard rune]

@pine sleet

[near ocean]

Do you have a CV

[alpine sail]

what do you do when your country is just so unimaginative?

[next plover]

what do you mean unimaginative?

[hard rune]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PvNRIJCho9j6Tu70UyzFb-9Pmy9wwnpt/view?usp=drivesdk
Yess this is my resume
@next plover @alpine sail @near ocean @pine sleet

[near ocean]

Post a screenshot please, im not clicking on a google drive link

[next plover]

this may be easier to read

[hard rune]

So what I do

[fading moon]

do you know

[hard rune]

What

[fading moon]

Hi, nice to meet you

I really wanna meet you

[hard rune]

Yess Mam please guide me

[fading moon]

What do you want

[hard rune]

Get a perfect tech stack to get my first job , Cause I don't have hope for MERN stack

[fading moon]

what do you want

[hard rune]

I want to get my first job, guide or referral for that

[fringe sphinx]

Perfect is the enemy of good. Build a wide foundation, don't specialize or micro optimize.... you have zero chance of predicting or optimizing for your first job.

But, that said; do a data project, a web project, a ML project, a game, a terminal UI, maybe an embedded project.

[smoky iris]

Where do the people who try to find employees here, get sent? Like is there a channel or direct job board channel that they get redirected to.

[near ocean]

there's a number of available job boards, not in this server
try linkedin

[smoky iris]

Yeah I know about those. Figured I’d try here cuz I’m tired of sending applications to the void via those sites. Figured if people are advertising their companies here; I’d least have a direct line.

[rapid vault]

Hey mates
I would have a question:
Is it logical to become remote full stack developer?
I am asking because seems like there are too much full stack developers also AI tools are rising... what do you think about this?

[dusty lark]

Anyone in here do nextjs?

[summer plover]

If it's what you wanna do, go for it. Don't let anyone tell you things like "oversaturated field" or "AI's gonna replace you".

Pretty sure that's against the rules, if anyone can confirm that.

[opaque lichen]

np

[rapid vault]

Thank you for response Ok let's not afraid from ai
But in YouTube and udemy also other platforms have tons of resources for building strong portfolio and seems like Upwork and other freelance sites are fully covered with other developers, seems like getting job is impossible. I don't know what to do friend...

[summer plover]

You can still apply for remote jobs instead of doing freelance.

[rapid vault]

Oh sounds good, thank you. So if there are good skills, there is still hope...

[summer plover]

Good luck

[arctic iron]

Hi everyone

what about these lines in my resume as an introduction paragraph.

Full stack engineer with 6 years of crafting large scale, realtime, concurrent systems. I have been using Laravel, Symphony, PHP, Postgress, Redis, VUE, Typescript, Tailwind CSS.

[fringe sphinx]

Intro paragraphs are usually a waste of space, since you're just repeating what I'd see in your most recent job.

If you're going to write one, say something that isn't obvious

[arctic iron]

Sure, got it.

You have some more suggestions @fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

Always wear sunscreen

[arctic iron]

Should I add this in the introduction paragraph.?

[arctic iron]

Bro is in joky mood. 🌹

[fringe sphinx]

It is a good video tho, fr.

[open ivy]

There is a vicious cycle where people without a job get desperate and no one wants to hire desperate people.

I found that having personal projects that I really enjoy masks some of this desperation. Sure, I need a job. But I also have these ideas and make a little progress each day on them. Something else to talk about.

[true turtle]

Check out the two links in this channel's description

(i don't know if they're any good though, haven't used them myself)

[near ocean]

people mostly want to hire desperate people, what makes you think the opposite

[safe coral]

Do you think I should take CompTia A+

It looks very easy lol 😂

But I don’t know if it would matter when I apply to DS positions

[peak halo]

it wouldn't--I think hirers would be confused that you got it.

[safe coral]

So you think I shouldn’t?

[peak halo]

I don't think it would improve your DS employment prospects.

[safe coral]

Gotcha. This sucks pretty much 😂

I haven’t seen a lot of ML NLP AI DS positions lately. If there are, they are all high level positions

I really enjoyed NLP last semester. I’d like to work in that area

[safe coral]

You do NLP right?

[peak halo]

Yes

[safe coral]

That’s a very niche area I guess. Not a lot of jobs available

[white relic]

eh. I've interviewed people who were so desperate for a job that they couldn't tell me why they wanted this job. It gets hard to evaluate candidates in those circumstances.

Practice helps (the candidate, I mean, but probably the interviewer too)

[open ivy]

It's human nature to exclude people if one thinks they are social outcasts. Maye this served a purpose a long time ago? But nowadays the world is so unfair that there are so many interesting misfits out there. They are no worse or better in terms of being a good person or a friend. Workplace culture may be tricky, but an open culture would be OK in most cases.

[near ocean]

Its also human nature to exploit people and who is more exploitable than someone desperate, someone unaware of their worth, who wont negotiate salary, PTO, hours, just do as theyre told, etc

[shadow birch]

guys

i am going to year 10 next year, I want to become a software engineer but idk if it will still be a job by like 2031, because thats when I will finish UNI. and the uni soft ware engineer course is 3 years.

[lapis wind]

it will still be a job one way or another by 2031

[near ocean]

i sure hope im not still a software dev by 2031 but im not exactly taking steps to prevent it

[pine sleet]

there will always be a demand for smart technical people

[shadow birch]

ok

[shadow birch]

why dont you want to be a soft ware developer?

[near ocean]

i dont wanna be anything, the dream is to retire as early as possible

[cold coyote]

Hello! I am Cammy and I am new to python. I know this isnt a introduction channel but I wanna say hi to everyone and say I am new! I hope I get new friends here and I wanna become a Software developer in the future.

[shadow birch]

ok

[shadow birch]

Cammy how old are you?

[cold coyote]

14

[shadow birch]

yeah same

[cold coyote]

Nice'

[shadow birch]

Which country are you in, I am in Australia

[cold coyote]

USA

[pine sleet]

hey! welcome

[cold coyote]

hello!

My grammar isnt the best I just started python. any advice you can tell me?

[pine sleet]

you don’t need to take it too seriously. make fun projects and see what’s out there

[cold coyote]

okay.

[velvet sigil]

what are the most viable career paths for someone to self study for? python backend developer, python frontend developer, python fullstack dev, python data analyst, and python ai/ML?

[peak halo]

Definitely not ai/ml. That's the most degree-requiring domain of CS.

[fringe sphinx]

I think it's a fallacy to think that these distinctions are particularly meaningful or helpful. Backend, frontend, fullstack, etc all have a myriad of possibilities. It's simply not helpful to think in terms of specialization. Instead, think about building core skills: be a good developer, and do a variety of projects to build a foundation. Worry about specialization after you get your first job as an entry developer.

[velvet sigil]

i just am wondering what to apply for once i have core skills and projects built

[fringe sphinx]

Ultimately, you'll need to apply to any entry level position that's out there... you won't have much choice.

[velvet sigil]

there are entry levels for a tonnnn of career paths with python though arent there? im just trying to figure out which possibilities i will like

[fringe sphinx]

It's a competitive job market. You should look at LinkedIn to see what jobs are posted in your area, and the requirements for them.

[fringe sphinx]

But, tell us about your background. Do you have a degree? Any experience? etc?

[velvet sigil]

I have a degree in graphic design, which I do not like. i completed a devops bootcamp (scam) that told me I would be job ready, and did not do enough research to realize it is a very high level career path. i have an 'in' in that I have been taken on a team of volunteer devs as a devops trainee, and I have been self studying that as well as self studying python. I achieved an AWS solutions architect certificate, and have basic knowledge of terraform, docker, github actions, python, aws, linux, and maybe more I can't think of

I think it would be easier to go into dev instead of devops despite my 'in'; i enjoy the focus on coding in python more than the wide wide wide range of things I need to know for devops. i may go into devops still though, i have been struggling to decide

[fringe sphinx]

Entry programming jobs are very competitive right now, so: make sure to also look for jobs in DevOps and QA. Pursue multiple options, rather than just one,

Worry about making a decision when you have a decision you -need- to make.

[velvet sigil]

I need to make my decision on what to focus on, since I feel spread too thin and undecided

[fringe sphinx]

I'd argue that's a good thing. DevOps experience is good for all roles. So is some programming. Etc.

[velvet sigil]

you think spending 2 hr/day on python and 2 hr/day on devops stuff is fine? I don't want to wait 2 yr to be very capable

[fringe sphinx]

Why wait? Look for opportunities now, and constantly.

More DevOps and QA experience -with- self study would be better than self study alone.

[velvet sigil]

i feel unable to do a lot of stuff without the help of LLMs. i want to get to the level where I'm capable on my own

[fringe sphinx]

The way to do that is simple: stop using LLMs and learn to code without them.

That requires you to back up and start with simpler projects.

[velvet sigil]

I was just responding to this, it seems like encouraging me to apply to all of these fields; i don't feel capable enough to be doing them

[fringe sphinx]

Then apply to the ones you're capable of

Work experience is the single most important thing on your resume

[velvet sigil]

are there any job titles you recommend I look up that you would say someone with good foundational skills, and projects done, is capable of?

[fringe sphinx]

Not particularly, job titles are terribly non standard

And most larger companies require related degrees, so you'll be looking for mid to small companies where you can get in. Preferably those in your local area

[open ivy]

I am good at setting boundaries, which helps my long term performance.

But do people detect that and avoid me because they want more of an exploitable worker?

Makes me wonder if this will make it harder for me to get a job, but once I find one it will likely offer me more freedoms and choices.

[velvet sigil]

there are some entry level jobs that say no experience needed or only year experience needed for software developer; these don't feel real to me, are they generally? i thought you'd need to be pretty experienced for software dev jobs

[balmy spade]

Software developer has entry level but that often comes with the caveat of having technology experience (or a degree if experience is missing).

Example: I started in tech support because I had no experience in the field and no degree. I would not have found a software engineering job with my resume at the time.

[velvet sigil]

like this ```During your software developer journey, you will be provided the skills needed to succeed. Under the tutelage of experienced software developers, you will work on a team to hone both technical and interpersonal skills critical for real-world success. You’ll also be given the opportunity to build software for one of our many clients. You'll receive mentorship, coaching, and ongoing support throughout your Catalyte career.

Qualifications

Be at least 18 years old
Basic proficiency using a computer and the internet
Be a U.S. citizen or eligible to work in the U.S. for 30 continuous months. Catalyte does not offer visa assistance or sponsorship of any kind.
Curiosity to learn new skills
Motivated
What We Offer

Start your career without prior experience!
Mentorship from experienced Software Engineering professionals
Competitive salary
Paid time off
Career acceleration
Certification assistance
About Catalyte

Catalyte is an AI-enabled workforce company. Its proprietary technology uses 200K data points to discover and develop high-potential talent. As a result, Catalyte offers employers tenacious, high-performing talent that increases productivity, quality and diversity metrics while reducing the total cost of talent. By redefining hiring and elevating ability over resumes, Catalyte transforms individuals, companies and communities. For more information, visit www.catalyte.io

... There is no application deadline for this position because Catalyte accepts applications on an ongoing basis. ...
...```

[uncut bay]

help

[velvet sigil]

(sorry for the long copy paste)

[balmy spade]

Catalyte is an AI-enabled workforce company. Its proprietary technology uses 200K data points to discover and develop high-potential talent. As a result, Catalyte offers employers tenacious, high-performing talent that increases productivity, quality and diversity metrics while reducing the total cost of talent.

That's a whole lot of words that don't really say much.

[fringe sphinx]

That sounds scammy

[velvet sigil]

it does but I'm finding a lot of reviews and none are outright saying it's a scam..

(decent amount of good reviews too)

[balmy spade]

I'm sure they offer tenacious, high-performing reviews. /j

[fringe sphinx]

https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/m7pzly/comment/huhly3c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Regardless, I have no opinion other than: the job market is the job market. At best, they're placing people into other jobs and are classified as a boot camp. Given what we know about the job market, this seems unlikely to be helpful to you.

[velvet sigil]

tyty

[open ivy]

Everyone is doing AI. Flood of wannabe workers here.

But who else is doing algorithm design? I am working on a physics engine as a personal project, and it is built differently than what's out there.

Few coders are doing this. Yet algorythim design is the unsung hero beneth it all. I am hopeful that companies will need workers here and have trouble finding them.

[hard rune]

Yeah I have prior knowledge about next js

[hard rune]

Thank you

[jagged cargo]

Hello is python freelance coding worth now?I am just a beginner learning python basic with no experience and I wanna become a freelance python coder

[peak halo]

being successful as a freelancer would be much more challenging than being successful as an employed developer. it's not as simple as finding jobs on fiverr whenever you need something to do.

[pine sleet]

short answer is no, long answer is #career-advice message

[peak halo]

that's not even that long of an answer. (but it's still a good one.)

[jagged cargo]

So if I have some language skillset , experience under my belt and have a strong portfolio I can thrive in that freelancer world?

[pine sleet]

not necessarily. you need to know your clients or have someone that can refer you clients

[uncut bay]

Hi everyone. I am still a new at python, currently watching the python course videos on youtube from CS50. Im only 13 years old right now, so I'm not seeking for job opportunities yet, but I just want to know when I am like 15 years old or whenever I can get a job, what type of job I could possibly aim for in the future? Like a part time developer and stuff. I live in Australia if that helps with anything.

[pine sleet]

you probably won't be able to get a software engineering job at 15, it's incredibly rare. it's far more common to do so as an internship in university (so when you're 18/19)

[uncut bay]

yes ill probably try do an internship once im in uni

[summer roost]

there are very few programming jobs available for someone who isn't yet 18. You're unlikely to be able to make any significant money programming until you have at least graduated from high school

[pine sleet]

for experience it's better to work on your own projects, or if you want to know how real teams work you can contribute to open source and try to join a team that way

[uncut bay]

well at least for a few years i can master the basics and since I want to make games would there be any job internships in the future for game dev?

[pine sleet]

probably

[summer roost]

you may be able to make some money freelancing, but to set expectations, you're fairly unlikely to make more money than you would by working a minimum wage job.

[summer roost]

there are very few internships available for people who are not yet enrolled in a university

[uncut bay]

is there like any specific areas/paths in python other than game dev that would be more beneficial and likely for me to get a job/internship later on for me? i dont know if game dev is gonna be worth doing even though i like doing it

[pine sleet]

you should focus on what you enjoy doing more than what will be most beneficial, because what will be more beneficial is what you enjoy doing

[summer roost]

yeah, I agree. I wouldn't worry about specializing in any particular area yet

[pine sleet]

its hard to predict to future so it's hard for us to answer "will X field be around when I graduate"

[summer roost]

you'll be better served by learning a lot of different stuff now and figuring out what you like most

[uncut bay]

but is it ok if i want to make games later on? im going to finish the cs50p course then start making simple projects then learn pygame and game dev or something else i like doing

[summer roost]

of course that's ok

[uncut bay]

alright thanks

[raw ibex]

I'm wondering if anyone can get a software job without knowledge of AI. What would you do or will you change your career path in the current tough times for developers?

[lean pollen]

yo guys

i want advice about whether doing coding is worth it. i mean i almost have 0 idea which route to take next

like ive finished basics but now what

[pine sleet]

if you're interested then yeah it's worth it

[pine sleet]

!res check out some of these resources, make some projects

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[lean pollen]

but which line of work do i even go in

[pine sleet]

whichever you're interested in

[lean pollen]

are you currently employed somewhere?

forgive me if im being rude

[pine sleet]

no, i'm a student

[lean pollen]

Can I ask which lines you guys found interesting and found work in?

[lean pollen]

I have a query can I dm?

[pine sleet]

just ask here

[lean pollen]

uhmm oke so which language are you studying rn? what kind of job your going for and which sources you follow.

[pine sleet]

i'm kind of past the point of studying languages so i don't really spend much time on it

i'm just going for a general software engineering job, not anything in particular

as for sources, i'm not really following tutorials or books or anything, mostly just writing my own projects or listening to talks and stuff

[lean pollen]

would you say your better than a lot of entry level software engineers? Or smart?

[pine sleet]

mmm

a lot of today's CS graduates aren't all that good so yeah i suppose

but it's not really important because you're not competing with them

[lean pollen]

oke nc so your good. Then can I ask you for help in guiding me in getting a software engineering job?

[pine sleet]

you can put your questions in this chat and anyone who's in it can help

[jagged cargo]

Thanks for answering my question I really appreciate it

[lean pollen]

Alr alr got it

[jagged cargo]

Rather than syntax it is better you know what you need,google fu it and you need problem solving skill

[pine sleet]

you will still need to know syntax, but that's quite trivial

[jagged cargo]

Yes basic are important the most important thing is you know what you are building

[pine sleet]

[jagged cargo]

I can join open source as volunteer and team here? If so where and what skill I require?

[pine sleet]

!contribute

[inner wren]

Contribute to Python Discord's open source projects

Looking to contribute to Open Source Projects for the first time? Want to add a feature or fix a bug on the bots on this server? We have on-going projects that people can contribute to, even if you've never contributed to open source before!

Projects to Contribute to

• Sir Lancebot - our fun, beginner-friendly bot
• Python - our utility & moderation bot
• Site - resources, guides, and more

Where to start

1. Read our contribution guide
2. Chat with us in #dev-contrib if you're ready to jump in or have any questions
3. Open an issue or ask to be assigned to an issue to work on

[jagged cargo]

Thanks!

[fringe sphinx]

This is both sad and quite true. It's been true for a long time. It's the whole reason fizz buzz is a thing. https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/. And it's uncomfortable to talk about without feeling like you're gatekeeping. That said: I was not a good software engineer when I got my first job... I wouldn't have hired me. I got better.

(Above was response to Robin: #career-advice message)

[rugged axle]

What are the odds of me getting selected in gsoc ?
Can someone help please 🥲 ?

Full Stack Mobile Developer
React Native, Django, Docker, Git, Linux
- Identified and resolved session login vulnerabilities.
- Implemented anti-root detection for a mobile application.
- Developed tools for image metadata and geo-location removal.
- Created a server error notification bot using Python for Slack.
- Integrated payment APIs, including Eazebuzz and Tilled, into the backend system.
- Designed a graph library utilizing react-native-svg.
- Developed a system for compressing images to optimize requests and reduce storage usage.
May 2024 – Present

Mobile Developer Intern
React Native, Git
- Built Bluetooth-based systems for thermal printers.
- Developed inventory management systems for various use cases.
3 Months

Open Source Contributions (Ongoing & Merged)

Bluesky [React Native, TypeScript, Golang]
- Contributed to QR code generation, custom scroll bars, collapsible threads, and other features.

UseMemos [React, TypeScript, Air]
- Addressed theming issues, SSO password restrictions, and layout collapse bugs.

FreeCodeCamp [React, TypeScript, Gatsby]
- Improved state-saving for panes to facilitate debugging and testing.

Mattermost [React, TypeScript]
- Enhanced emoji-picker functionality to persist custom emoji preferences.

Skills
- Web Development: MERN, Django, REST API, Socket.io, ORM (SQL, MongoDB), Python, Rust
- Mobile Development: React Native
- Game Development: Godot, Bevy
- Version Control: Git
- DevOps: Docker, CI/CD
- Design: Figma
- Operating Systems: Windows, Linux (Ubuntu, Parrot, Kali)

I usually dont ping people directly but I really really need your help @fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

I genuinely know nothing about gsoc or what their criteria are

[rugged axle]

Then where should I ask I really need help

[fringe sphinx]

Well, give other ppl a moment, maybe someone else knows something about gsoc

And check Reddit, maybe there's a relevant subreddit for gsoc

[rare beacon]

anyone will contribute to gsoc
is python will participate this year

[remote oar]

can someone help me to fix my python code it's a mastermind game plz

[near ocean]

Not in this channel, try #python-discussion

[night tulip]

I wanted to learn Python. Where do you recommend starting?

[pine sleet]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[open ivy]

I wonder where the "tech outcasts" subcultures are. People who have a long-lived passion for tech but feel displaced by the recent changes to the industry.

Because the "industry" is not a monolith. There are still meaningful problems to solve, even if they don't get the press. I think that may be a good long-term career strategy rather than a hype bubble about to burst.

[lapis wind]

People who have a long-lived passion for tech but feel displaced by the recent changes to the industry.
I think that might just be r/cscareers and r/cscareerquestions

[open ivy]

The trick is to avoid the zeightgiest. So many people want a job in AI it is very hard to get a job there. So I have to get a job in something that is interesting but not in something everyone wants. A more obscure topic that is important in industry but not (yet) in public discourse.

[fringe sphinx]

Neither? Is anything future proof?

More practically: breadth. Breadth is how you make yourself employable.

[worldly stirrup]

In machine learning job interview what questions do they ask

[peak halo]

• what is the difference between precision and recall
  • in what situations should you care about both equally?
  • in what situations might you care more about one?
• give an example of a supervised and an unsupervised model
• what is a chief limitation of neural networks?
  • what's a situation where it would be better to use a non-neural model?
• give an example of when there's missing data and how you could overcome it
• if you're coding in a notebook, what are important things to keep in mind?
  I'll see if I can think of more.

[wary tree]

Hi there!
I hope you’re having an amazing day!
I’m on a journey to enhance my American English skills 🇺🇸 and would love to connect with new friends along the way!
Let’s chat and share our experiences!

[vocal echo]

Yeah!!

[peak halo]

@worldly stirrup did you like my questions or no

[weary knot]

Does anyone know any good free learning programs for python. I want to build my career in cybersecurity/random projects(freelance). But don't know a way to start learning this type of stuff.

[whole flare]

For cybersecurity you may want to have a look at the pins in #cybersecurity

[weary knot]

I looked at the entry/mid/principal course things, would that be something were I start doing the entry and work my way up or do the one I want to do, like start doing mid level

[weary knot]

@whole flare after going to some of the courses they say I have to be 18+ which I am not so I'm guessing I'll just have to wait until then or find one that doesn't need to know/doesn't care about my age. I would just put I'm 18 but I don't think it'd be good to do that with these courses

[safe coral]

I care about F1

The harmonic mean of precision and recall

do they really ask easy questions like that?

[peak halo]

Yes. If someone doesn't know precision and recall, that quickly reveals that they're a fake

[safe coral]

what if I responded to that question with I would prefer F1 Score

[peak halo]

I would ask you again to answer the question that was asked

What is your answer?

[safe coral]

Sorry! I am at work so I couldnt answer

I would say recall is the true positive rate (the proportion of all positives that are actually detected as positive)

[fast fossil]

don't think that answer would pass (the one about being at work, since you would be at an interview)

[peak halo]

@safe coral between tp, fp, tn, and fn, which is punished by precision and by recall?

[safe coral]

so precision I believe is punished by FP

recall is punished by FN?

[peak halo]

yes; and when might you care about one of those two especially?

[safe coral]

If we have too many FP it will reduce the precision

About FP and FN?

[peak halo]

I'm asking you to describe a situation where you care mainly about precision at the expense of recall, or vice versa.

[safe coral]

this is tough because sometimes I go with either

like in spam detection sometimes I think minimizing false positives is better but also minimizing false negatives can be better

I used recall in my spam detection instead of precision for example

thats why I think F1 plays a big role here so that I can handle the trade off betwen FP and FN

[fast fossil]

but in your words, that's a situation where you care about both equally then
what about where you care only about one though was the current question

[safe coral]

thats why I used F1 Score for my class imbalance project because it helps offsetting trade off between FP and FN

for example for disease screening FN can be bad and fatal I think so you may wanna go for recall there

you dont care much about FP

[peak halo]

interesting responses; this can continue in #data-science-and-ml if it needs to.

[cold coyote]

may sound stupid, what website or who can teach me python?

[peak halo]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[cold coyote]

Thank you good sir

[worldly stirrup]

I liked your questions alot thank you so much great questions

[peak halo]

I'm glad 💚

[oak flax]

Anyone care to discuss how to manage a career when you're in technical upper management?

[vapid jay]

Can i throw photo to this channel?

Or in which channels can i do?

[buoyant seal]

depends on content of a photo. If related to channel topic then yes.

[dense mesa]

If you search "CTO", "staff engineer" and "individual contributor" on hackernews, there's some good posts with blogs, articles and books about moving up to management

[winter ledge]

How much knowledge about python do we need for a job?

[mighty token]

I would like to ask all the developers and engineers here a question
As now everyone is looking to learn some skill or other let's target Web development so now frontend tasks is easy to do like within snaps using AI
Is it worth learning the front-end skills or is just understanding its structure and syntax enough?

[uncut bay]

is a software engineer a real job? and if so what do they do

[sour tartan]

they write software. most jobs will be more specific.

[uncut bay]

what do you mean they 'write software'

[sour tartan]

i'm not sure what else to say. someone wants a computer to do something. Someone has to write a program to make the computer do that thing. That's software. It's written by a software engineer.

[uncut bay]

im just wondering what type of career paths i could go for later on when im older just so I have a rough idea. probably within software engineering just not sure if i should do game dev, or mobile app dev since i equally like both sort of

[sour tartan]

it might be too early to think about that

[sour tartan]

make a game, see what you think

[uncut bay]

well right now im learning from: https://www.learnpython.org/, which isnt a waste of time for me to learn programming in general right?

[sour tartan]

it's not a waste, no. you need the basics

[uncut bay]

yeah ok just making sure

would by any chance the topics covered in that website be all the basics i would need to know for programming?

these by the way:
Learn the Basics
Hello, World!
Variables and Types
Lists
Basic Operators
String Formatting
Basic String Operations
Conditions
Loops
Functions
Classes and Objects
Dictionaries
Modules and Packages
Input and Output

i am currently up to 'Conditions'

[sour tartan]

you need all of that.

[uncut bay]

yes but are they the only basics i would learn or would i go to another website for other basics?

[near ocean]

Start learning first, the more you learn the more you'll understand what else needs to be learned

[sour tartan]

you're going to continue learning new things for your entire career.

[uncut bay]

i know but for the basics is that all?

[sour tartan]

"basics" doesn't mean anything. there's no line between basics and not-basics.

start learning, keep learning. write programs.

[uncut bay]

oh okay i just thought there was like a list of basics and stuff

[sour tartan]

i can see from the questions that you are asking that you want definite answers and well-paved pathways. You want to know that you are making the right choices. I understand that. But those things don't exist.

[uncut bay]

but there is like a sort of right and wrong like if you were trying to learn mobile app development and learn something like java or some useless langauge then it would be a waste right?

[sour tartan]

you can learn things that you later don't use. It's not a waste exactly. You are too worried about making the wrong choices. I think you described yourself well: you are overthinking this. Learn stuff and write programs. keep moving.

[uncut bay]

alright

[oak flax]

What about moving down in/from management? 😄 got any articles on that?

[dense mesa]

Would recommend searching HN 🙂 I can't think of any specific ones immediately but there are several posts about going from management to IC

[trim flower]

Hey guys, I'm not new to python and I want to make a career out of it or atleast learn things it can teach which would enhance my work experience (via projects, maybe research, and of course competitions and hackathons) so what possible path or roadmap should be good? I'm familiar with things upto common functions about dictionary..maybe till numpy and pandas, I left before starting oops part, classes I mean
Any suggestions would be appreciated

[buoyant seal]

I shall recommend revisiting basics i think in your case.
Head First Python 3rd edition, or Introducing Python in simple packages can work too
https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/introducing-python-3rd/9781098174392/

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog/choosing_pet_projects.html
After that i can recommend to write pet projects for smth u have interest in and part of community you are. Gaming community or smth else
Here is article i wrote with more thoughts on this topic

[buoyant seal]

When u will feel ready, feel free to visit Code Complete book as next theoretical book. It covers a lot of aspects how to write code a bit better
https://darklab8.github.io/blog/favourite.html#CodeCompleteAPracticalHandbookofSoftwareConstruction

[glossy moat]

Hello everyone

I had a question regarding doing dsa in python, do faang companies prefer cpp users over python ones during interviews? I was told so by a google engineer but i just wanted to get some more opinions on this...

Im not saying im avoiding low level programming totally, its just for that I prefer learning rust. Python is something I've done webdev and some ML already in so I felt more comfortable to learn dsa in it

[pine sleet]

I shouldn’t be that difficult to learn enough of a language to do some DSA, especially if you already know a language

so you may as well

But I think python is common enough and readable even if you don’t know python but know other languages to be a passable medium for DSA concepts

[fringe sphinx]

There are many programming jobs out there, and different teams have different biases. There's a continual debate over which language is more hardcore, which one is "lower level", which one is better, etc.

[pine sleet]

at the end of the day the interviewer wants to know if you can use the tools available to you effectively to convey ideas

[fringe sphinx]

But, that said, if I were trying to maximize my chances at a FAANG job, I'd certainly want to be able to tackle DSA questions in at least two languages. But, I also think FAANG jobs are increasingly inaccessible and not healthy to focus on.

[spare ridge]

Heyy is there anyone who would like to review my resume?

[deft herald]

You can anonymize it and just post it here if you want

typically as a screenshot. No one's gonna download a pdf and open it

[spare ridge]

cool lemme just blur out some info

[spare ridge]

Here

[fringe sphinx]

Immediately: contributing, contributed... etc... use consistent tense.

(I know they're "- present" roles, but, just use past tense)

The chatbot sounds questionable, legally speaking. Providing free access to GPT-4o?

Would like to see more technical information about what engineering you did. What skills? What experience? Sure, you were around projects that did stuff, but what did you do?

[spare ridge]

Ohh yeah I think I forgot that, I'll fix

[spare ridge]

wdym by that, like if I'm still doing them then shouldn't it be written as present?

[unkempt shard]

Any way to make a an 8 month unemployment gap look less terrible on a resume for an early career (2.5 yoe) engineer?

I took a voluntary layoff in June 2024 to focus on undiagnosed medical issues, eventually found out I had Celiac disease and it's been difficult to find a job, not helped by the fact I didn't start coding again until recently so didn't do well in the 2 interviews I did get.

[peak halo]

are you willing to say on your resume that it was "voluntary layoff for medical leave" and that the medical issue is not likely to impact your future ability to work? I can understand not wanting to share that, and the concern that they'll think the problem will relapse, but it might be better than letting them think "this person was fired for being bad"

[unkempt shard]

Yeah but that's the main thing, not sure if it'll cause more harm than good to the cold calculating eyes of HR. Atm, I have "contract" next to the job on my resume since it was a contract-to-hire role and I turned down the full-time employment offer when they asked me to join as their employee.

[peak halo]

I see what you mean. I don't think there's an obvious great answer to this question. you'll probably get a few more opinions in this channel, and then you can decide which suggestion sounds best/least bad.

[unkempt shard]

Yeah true thanks though

[scarlet elk]

Is there a career where we can just talk Python all day

[fringe sphinx]

There is, but it only pays in lemons (its' a joke about being a mod here)

[peak halo]

Maybe if you're paid to work on cpython or provide tooling for python developers. But most people who use python talk about the thing they're trying to use python to do. And that thing isn't meta.

[fast fossil]

How are they becoming increasingly inaccessible? Their codebases mature and require mainly maintenance which can be done by fewer people?

[fringe sphinx]

Hiring is down, layoffs are up, and approximately everybody applies to every FAANG job

[fast fossil]

What about everybody's mothers? But layoffs are a cyclic thing though, right? Similarly to hiring, so it might be getting increasingly harder now, but is it going to start going the other way too at some point?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm strictly speaking about FAANG. Their rapid over hiring created some really weird dynamics. While hiring is cyclical, I don't know if 'FAANG' hiring is.

[tall elbow]

Hey I have a question if anyone can touch up on it. I've been applying to colleges for the spring semester and was faced with the option to choose a major. Don't get me wrong, I love tech, I have a passion for it and truly love programming as well as the ins and outs of computers. As of late 2024 though it's been gaining attention in social media apps that the job market for cs and related careers such as cyber security are oversaturated. What are some majors and careers that align with the tech field that are in demand? What majors would for sure be future proof from AI as well? Any help or feedback is greatly appreciated 👍

[pine sleet]

it's not as bad as people onlike make it out to be. if you're interested in tech and programming then you should do a CS major

it's fine if you end up doing it and decide you do like it, lot of people switch majors

it is also impossible to tell for sure what AI will look like in the future or what jobs will be safe from it, so it's not really something worth worrying about too much

[tall elbow]

Hmm okay just making sure because man people are really bashing the whole job market for comp sci like I was really worried 😂 tech and programming is litteraly like the one and only thing that I find interesting and truly want to dive deeper into lol. I was considering majoring in cyber security. If I just majored in CS or software engineering, couldn't those degrees be used for various other careers including but not limited to cyber security, or would a cyber security major give me the same qualifications for software engineering etc

[pine sleet]

CS is more broad and allows you to work in a lot of different fields. Many people working in cybersecurity also have a CS degree

it's also fairly common for universities to have "tracks" wherein you chose specific classes to fill in your electives that are all targetted towards a specific field (like a cybersecurity track, or a hardware track, etc)

[tall elbow]

Okay thank you, I think for now I might go into their site and switch it to cs just in case before the semester starts and then talk to the counselors when I get there, thank you Robin!

[short iron]

any matlab expert DM

[muted sun]

hey everyone 🙂 I am mobile app developer for past 7 years and started recently Meta course on Coursera on backend, it is of course Python oriented. anyone here in similar situation looking to incorporate backend with mobile development (I am currently working with Flutter but also was an iOS dev)? tbh what I would like the most is to do mobile full stack. any tips advices or anyone with similar career path wants to exchange ideas and progress? thanks and cheers

[unkempt shard]

think a lot of it has to do with tech / software engineering being seen as a gold mine, specifically in the US where salaries have been far higher than other countries for swe, in terms of salary relative to other careers for the past 20 years or so. And now that it's settling into more typical salary ranges on avg. and number of job opportunities, it seems like a seismic shift / "catastrophic" event given if you're on the outside or inside. I mean the past 15 -20 years were aptly dubbed " the Golden Age" of software engineering. Sure, in terms of salaries, but I think the actual golden age (or one of them) was back in the 60/70's back when people at Bell Labs were going nuts with progressing the industry.

[spice wyvern]

Hi everyone, I'm currently working as a GenAI Developer and wanted to switch companies. Could you please advice on how can I get interview-ready? FYI I'm like a noob in DSA and have completely lost touch of it. I'd rate my Python skills in-between beginner and intermediate. I'm strong in topics like data types, string manipulation, file handling, exception handling, debugging. I was initially working in support that's why I'm not THAT strong in Python. Any free resources and recommendations would be really helpful 🙂

[proud glacier]

I assume you've already done some programming in your free time?

[tepid ridge]

Hello i wanna learn programing but i don't know where to learn .

[proud glacier]

check out our resources for beginners

[trim flower]

This would help me expand my knowledge on this language and its usage
I am thinking to make a certain software that marks attendance based on face recognition which is commonly available by many developers already, but I am thinking of tweaking the idea so that the users or employees can register themselves using their own phones like we register our faces on lockscreen, I think that would improve the efficiency from the default hardware based registration on premises of the office(for example). I will be making both hardware and software which will clearly require ML integration along with either a web, or mobile application or both to execute this project. What are your thoughts on this
Any suggestion from anyone is most welcomed

[fringe sphinx]

The funny thing about this topic is: what field do you think is 'safe'/'not over saturated'? What you'll find is: whatever field you focus on, you'll see people complaining about over saturation.

Think law is safe? https://www.reddit.com/r/Ask_Lawyers/comments/if1wyo/im_starting_law_school_this_week_why_is_it_that/. What about medicine? https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/3j48pm/which_branches_of_medicine_are_oversaturated_i/

Anyway, my point isn't doom and gloom, it's that: 'saturation' is often exaggerated because negative posts get clicks in social media. The reality is usually more complex: high paying jobs aren't unlocked just by showing up. You have to be good, you have to be prepared, and perhaps you need a bit of luck.

[indigo ivy]

Excuse me does any of you guys know a good formal template for creating a CV?

[indigo ivy]

Excuse me can you show me where i can get this format for me to complete for my own CV ?

[pine sleet]

it’s called “Jake’s Resume” and it’s very good

[spare ridge]

It's a modified version of jakes resume

[indigo ivy]

thank you guys 🙂

[dapper hazel]

DM ME

[pine sleet]

Hello, I’ve deleted your message as we don’t allow recruiting in this server

[dapper hazel]

ok

[tall elbow]

Thank you for the comparison of other careers as well, this is some solid advice, thanks 🙏 guess no matter what people will think and swear that a field is oversaturated lol definently going to try my best to build relations with professors and do good in any internships

[chilly kernel]

Hi, I need someone to finish my Python automated poker bot. Please DM me if interested, I pay

[whole flare]

!rule paid

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[whole flare]

Also this isn't on topic for this channel, maybe try to ask for help in #python-discussion

[gusty rivet]

does anyone know any details of how python is used at hft/quant firms?

everyone talks about C++ and its use in latency critical environments but not as much about how python is used

[fringe sphinx]

Any hft firm doesn't just do 'hft'. They have a whole set of other data requirements and uses, from traditional data engineering through ML, plus a range of other analysis and feature engineering and data exploration work.

Sure, the fast path is likely c++ and very specialized/optimized code... but it took a lot of work of research, exploration, modeling , backtesting, etc to get there

[gusty rivet]

i see, that makes sense

so proficiency in numpy/pandas would be an almost necessity to be a valuable python engineer for quant firms

[fringe sphinx]

Quants are more likely, in my experience, to be coding in Python (or R) than anything else

[fringe sphinx]

If youre aiming for that kind of role, I'd say a strong data skillset plus c++, and strong DSA would be the foundation to aim for. I'm speaking from an adjacent role (I'm not a quant)

That said, quant shops are notoriously focused on strong math, algorithm, and core technical ability... as they know they can train from there.

Read about how Jane or citadel screen and interview Quants. Just depends what job you're looking for.

[gusty rivet]

that makes sense

im going to be interning as a swe in quant this summer but was just wondering how to strengthen my skills for python roles in the field specifically

[fringe sphinx]

My vote would be: start with Numpy, pandas and sklearn. That's the basics.

But, if you have an internship lined up: ask them.

[gusty rivet]

what’s the best way to gain competency in these libraries in your opinion? if there is one

[fringe sphinx]

Numpy has a great tutorial, start there https://numpy.org/doc/stable/user/index.html

[fast fossil]

practice

[indigo ivy]

Excuse me does any of you guys have a resume format of harvards ( i wanna make one with my infos ) itll help me alot thanks 🙏🙏

[pine sleet]

what is "resume format of harvards"?

[fleet reef]

My resume

[true harness]

why do you want that specific format if you haven't even seen it

[fringe sphinx]

fwiw, there is a MIT page with recommended formats: https://capd.mit.edu/channels/make-a-resume-cover-letter-cv/

[vapid jay]

hello skibidi

[umbral frigate]

If you're looking for an off-topic channel, try #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare. This channel is reserved for career discussion.

[wet magnet]

i am learning python for reading book the chapter in the book also have 2d Game and djanjo but my goal to become machine learning engineer could i need to learn 2d game and djanjo framework or skip it ??

[vapid jay]

lower ur tone

[remote moat]

?

[vapid jay]

joking

[remote moat]

you don't need to pay close attention to django. neither 2d games probably
only if you find it fun

[umbral frigate]

If you don't think you need to learn about game development or django, you don't have to. And please go to #python-discussion for other Python questions in the future 🙂

[vapid jay]

is looking at github projects already made on github and learning off that code is that a good start to learn exactly what you want to learn

[umbral frigate]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vale bluff]

whats yall opinion on cyber secuirity

like in my opinion i think its good

but it does have its cons

[harsh river]

It’s one of many fields, has its pros and cons

[quartz radish]

sometimes the system can generate false postives where users get "flagged" and thats when actual threats go overlooked. kinda like a crying wolf scenario

[dapper bane]

What happens if u fucked up once in you previous company and then they tell your new company that u did in background check ?

@fringe sphinx I am sorry for the ping but I am a little worried

[fringe sphinx]

That's two hypotheticals. Did that happen?

[dapper bane]

I made a bunh of mistakes when I was new and the boss did not like them at all

[fringe sphinx]

That sucks, but what does that have to do with your new company?

[dapper bane]

I ask my new company how is the process going they say they are doing background checks. What if my boss tells bad shit bout me ?

[fringe sphinx]

In Us, background checks are generally legal and employment certification, not reference checks: reference checks are talking to people about what kind of worker you were

Your new employer wouldn't normally talk directly to your boss, just an HR rep

[dapper bane]

In india there are no laws against even if it is no ones going to follow

[fringe sphinx]

How would your new employer even know how to contact your boss?

[dapper bane]

there is no HR in the company just the boss he does the hr work. The number in the experience letter is my boss's

[fringe sphinx]

Well, then, whatever happens happens.

Don't stress it, either the company offers you a job or not.

[dapper bane]

but in the future same thing will happen again ?

[fringe sphinx]

Has it even happened?

[dapper bane]

ok lets see what the company says

[dapper hazel]

any trusted bot dev here?

[dapper bane]

who could be more trusted than me ? I worked on bots yes

[near ocean]

🤨

[dense mesa]

Polars is becoming increasingly popular nowadays. If you're not looking to execute trades sub 1 second, it's feasible to use polars instead of a whole C++ execution system

Figure out what drives PnL on the desk and how you can contribute to it

[bleak jay]

nice👍

[fringe sphinx]

While Polars is great, I'm a believer in learning Pandas first. Altho I hate the state of dataframe libs

[dense mesa]

As it's more used in legacy codebases?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, like, someone who only knows polars will keep seeing pandas examples everywhere. Altho, I worry my belief is dated, like "learn c first"

[lapis wind]

I kind of agree, I think Pandas is still very popular and is everywhere in older code bases, and at some point, you are going to need to make changes to it

And Pandas is (unfortunately) not exactly a library without weird or unusual behaviour, and does take quite a bit of time to actual learn to use well

Example: Pandas v1 vs v2 behaviour differences, the fact that pd.na behave totally differently between different types and backends, several ways to rename columns but none of them work exactly as you expect etc...

[gusty rivet]

I didn't know about this, thanks

Good thing to know about but I think for now its probably best to solidify pandas first

[snow thorn]

Hi there
Any Data Analysts and Scientists
in the USA and Canada
What skill sets are the top of the pile when you applying to these countries

[dapper bane]

Hi how am I supposed to compete on the likes of algora I have worked in open source but even I can't understand a codebase that quick.

I scared

[near ocean]

What is algora and why would you use it
Is this how you want to make money?

[dapper hazel]

come dms

[versed hollow]

Hi guys, I am learning python and i wondered if in like 10 years, Something like chat gpt will make us(Developers) useless, can i get some opinion on that? Tnx

[eager tinsel]

probably yes

[versed hollow]

Any solution then?😂

[eager tinsel]

😭 no actual idea

[versed hollow]

Ok tnx

[harsh river]

LLMs will raise the entry barrier for jobs, but it wont make developers useless.

[vapid jay]

My worries exactly 🤧

[gusty rivet]

@fringe sphinx are memory/runtime optimisations in python useful for hedge funds/trading firms? stuff like __slots__ etc. If we're just doing a bunch of data analysis using numpy/pandas im not sure if we really care about stuff like that

[fast fossil]

I somehow highly doubt Python is gonna be involved in the performance-critical parts anyway, so the performance of it is probably not a huge concern.

[fringe sphinx]

Generally, I'd expect you'd be doing more optimization of the data work (in numpy, pandas, polars, databases, etc)... and not using Python objects and worried about things like slots, but that's just my experience. That said, you'd still want to understand how to achieve concurrency and parallelism, and the tradeoffs involved.

[dense mesa]

Yes

@umbral frigate anything to expand on?

[dense mesa]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[rugged axle]

is there any particular platform that that is specifcally for promoting yourself as an open source contributor ?

[kind salmon]

hi guys I need help

[fresh radish]

in what

[kind salmon]

Im new pls dot judge, how do I add css in HTML in VSCode?

[fresh radish]

sadly me to dont know

[kind salmon]

dang

[fresh radish]

maybe try youtube?

[plush summit]

Developers do more then writing code anyway

[fleet iris]

just make html css file and link it via link tag ?

[fresh radish]

?

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[kind salmon]

how

@fleet iris how

[dense mesa]

<@&831776746206265384> continuous off topic discussion above

[meager nest]

??

[fringe sphinx]

This is careers channel. Use #python-discussion plz

[meager nest]

oh so sry i thought I was in #python-discussion lmao

[hybrid sage]

Virtual reality?

[clever lagoon]

I'm in the middle of an existancial crisis right now, and I'd like external opinions :

I'm working on an awfull project since september. It has all the cons you can imagine : boring, bad organisation, overwheilming business side, complicated code for no reason, no one to talk to when facing a big challenge, etc. It was one huge perk tho : the place is a 10 minute walk from my house, which is a huge living confort. And I can't decide if I want to leave or not. Everyday; am frustrated when coming home and I dread the next day, but this is the first time in my life I have so much free time.

So my question is : where do you put the "cursor" for yourself ? Could you continue such project ?

[fringe sphinx]

You hate going to your job, but can't decide if you want to leave?

I can't imagine staying at a job I hate that much, without at least exploring my options.

Looking for a job is not a decision to leave, it's just a decision to look.

[clever lagoon]

I'll lose some confort if I get another job. Options aren't a problem in my case. For example I could get in another projet very easily but I'll spend 2h30 a day comuting.

[near ocean]

Can you do anything internally?

[clever lagoon]

I'm a consultant, It's a bit different of what you might expect. I can get on another project (on another client) or actually go for another job

I have enough experience to make both those things easy enough

[near ocean]

Do you work at each client's offices? If your commute would stay at 10min and you can work on a different project you should do that

2h30 commute is crazy talk

[spice willow]

2h30 per day is like, 1h15 per trip right

[clever lagoon]

correct

the accurate value would probably be around 1h a trip, with a little extra for the uncertainty (traffik, etc)

[spice willow]

that was my school life from 4th to 10th grade, hated every second of it

[clever lagoon]

can relate, my previous client was 1h commute

when WFH came in 2 days a week, it was a godsent

[glad meadow]

You can use python in Automation

[buoyant seal]

i tend to satisfy all my clean coding urges in my pet projects.
work projects are unevitably going to be all dirty. My organization is having super development pipeline and amount of good practices at the level of infrastructure.
And even adhere to quite good unit testing practices, and proper Continious integration and good error catching with sentry and distributed monitoring systems

The code is still dirty Django python code 😄
i am realistic in thinking work projects will be probably always dirty and not expecting much from them.
I draw a line only at having Unit tests higher than 80% coverage
If the project has unit testing and covers database related code, then it is good enough one to work with. Passing minimal quality for me.
If not, then it is a hell code i will wish to escape for sure (and not getting hired into a company that works without unit testing in the first place)

[clever lagoon]

yeah, I like your innocence... Sadly it's a lot worse than that

[clever lagoon]

I work more in the industrual fields, for corporations where IT isn't the core business, and often far away from places where IT thrives (and therefore bad or difficult hiring)

Unit test ? Continuous integration ? Monitoring system ? I wish I could have any of that

[near ocean]

What stops you from having them

Not that it would help with a boring domain/industry but its something

[clever lagoon]

Last week, the validator I created a test plan with for some app (because obviously there's no ressource for automation) came to me and ask "if he needed to do the whole test plan for the next release because it was a bit lenghty"

[clever lagoon]

I can only suggest and/or warns my clients, and I can't force them to do anything

[near ocean]

Yea that would do it

[clever lagoon]

more often than not:

• "oh be carrefulf there ! That's shit"
• "but we like shit."
• "oh alr then"

[obsidian dagger]

can anyone here help me making a portifolio, i don't know where to start. I don't plan using fiverr cus it keeps rejecting my credit card, which makes hard for me

[dense mesa]

Why use fiverr if it's your own portfolio

[obsidian dagger]

well, i'm not planning to use fiverr

cus fiverr keep rejecting my card

[dense mesa]

But why even consider it if it's a personal portfolio

[obsidian dagger]

because someone suggested me fiverr

[dense mesa]

A personal portfolio usually means it was created by the person whose portfolio it is 🙂 not someone else

[obsidian dagger]

oh i see

can you teach me how to make a portifolio?

[true harness]

suggested fiverr for doing what?

[obsidian dagger]

well, fiverr kinda don't allow me to register my credit card

[dense mesa]

What have you tried so far

[obsidian dagger]

fiverr and a website portifolio making

but it requested me to pay for a domain

[true harness]

that is not the question i'm asking. va_rx and i are confused because fiverr seems unrelated to what you want to do. that's why we are asking about what you originally wanted to do with fiverr

[obsidian dagger]

oh i see, pay someone else to make a portifolio then

time to do that

[true harness]

why would that help you

[obsidian dagger]

i don't know, it was just trying to understand what you meant

[true harness]

i asked what you wanted to do, and you said, "pay someone else to make a portfolio then"

[obsidian dagger]

it's because i want to offer services for my discord bot creation, i tried with fiverr once but it rejected me. Then i'm planning to make a portifolio, but where do i start, that's what i meant

[dense mesa]

If you can make discord bots, maybe put those onto a portfolio?

If you don't know how to do this, offering bot creation services seems fairly fraudulent

[obsidian dagger]

i know how to do that, the thing in question i'm saying is that i don't know how to make a portifolio, i know how to make a discord bot, but not a portifolio

[dense mesa]

This doesn't seem particularly ethical and it isn't careers related

[obsidian dagger]

why it's not ethical? Because it's just about the portifolio thing

[true harness]

a portfolio is just a collection of projects that you have made

[obsidian dagger]

you mean this?
https://github.com/HirukaRogue

those are the projects i made

[true harness]

sure

[dense mesa]

Is this for your career or to sell bots

[obsidian dagger]

both

how do i announce my service for discord bot commisions? I wanna offer discord bot services for peoples who can ask me for a custom discord bot

[hearty island]

um why has my manager not completed her performance eval of me when it was due on the 16th???

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-why-pepe-the-frog-sad-crying-gif-16026853

[near ocean]

People dont like doing paperwork/they often forget
Remind her

[lean wharf]

Hello 👋🏻

[fleet iris]

How to get better at communication and speaking confidence issueess

[true harness]

communicate and speak

[lethal shale]

hey, is there a channel where i can search for a python developer to write me a simple script?

like a search chat

[peak halo]

There is not; you'll have to go to a hiring website like fiverr.

[lethal shale]

alright, thank you

[wind cedar]

Is it more professional to use “at” or “@“ on my headline for my LinkedIn profile?

[true harness]

i don't think anyone cares

[obsidian dagger]

okay so, after having a portifolio, how do i start making comissions for people who wants a Discord bot?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not sure there's much money out there for that, but you could look on Fiverr or various discord forums

[obsidian dagger]

discord forums?

[fringe sphinx]

Not my space but generally, there's not a lot of money in doing low value things ,

[fringe sphinx]

Server I mean

[obsidian dagger]

oh discord servers

[modest panther]

Hi! any tips on working for a startup for equity? How can i differentiate a scam vs a legit startup?

[weary arrow]

any startup asking you for crazy requirements and asking you wild question as if they were a top 500 company is usually just bullshit

[modest panther]

I guess I can ask about their org and requirements, I can also ask to interview the team that currently exists

if they ghost me due to those questions it's likely not a successful team right?

[fringe sphinx]

There's many scenarios. You have 'we have no money and want you to work for just sweat equity' to 'we're an established company and equity or stock grants are part of our comp package'

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, are you asking whether they exist? Tell us more, I'll tell you if my BS radar pings

[modest panther]

I asked to meet the team, so hopefully I can gather more info, I don't want to dox them because I want them to succeed, in the case I say something wrong I don't want to make them look bad

[ashen rampart]

@hot nebula how long have i been here?

[fleet reef]

No need to ping random mods, follow the instructions the bot gave you and run !user in #bot-commands
You can also just click on your profile, Discord added the dates a few months ago

[ashen rampart]

thx.

[eternal sandal]

what is the most known/accepted Phyton certificate that can be acquired from home?

[harsh river]

basically None, python certificates don't hold any weight.

[eternal sandal]

none of them?, then in work interviews is it just code puzzles and past projects that evaluates the coders level?

[floral topaz]

Is python a useful skill for online advertising, or does that work using something else?

[eternal sandal]

phyton is backend development and what you are looking for is frontend

[floral topaz]

Which coding language is recommended for that?

[peak halo]

javascript is the only game in town for frontend.

[eternal sandal]

html css javascript

[wind cedar]

It doesn’t matter?

[near ocean]

no

[pine sleet]

yes, interview questions, questions about previous projects and previous work experiences

[near ocean]

you'll see a lot of people use @, it doesnt matter

[wind cedar]

Bet I’ll use @ then, it looks better than saying at

[rotund wing]

how do you feel about the ML industry in those days?

[dense mesa]

Still going strong in Europe. Linear regression is here for a while, regardless of these fancy LLMs

[vale depot]

I think I’m already fairly decent when it comes to Python, what languages are most valuable to know if I want to become a software engineer? I am going to uni in 2 years

[buoyant seal]

Java, Golang, Typescript are all mainstream languages that can do everything

Java and typescript both can do server side backend apps, desktop, mobile apps
Golang is in general perfect for backend, cli, server infrastructure apps, but can do desktop too and some other areas
Some Java devs transition to Kotlin though, for more features or for building front ends in it. JVM is its own world of ecosystem

Check your local hiring web sites to get more precision what is in demand. Some countries have more C# demand instead of Java

[rotund wing]

its looks like DS and ML turns into academic "exclusive" and keep interested developers away from it, it's good to know that still "old school" models like linear regression are still here

[dense mesa]

Not sure what you mean by academic exclusive? Devs can do ML at work without being concerned with academia

Academics may occasionally publish something with a new technique, the reality/practicality is typically different

[gloomy sedge]

Hello My company (ImagineArt) searching for Go developer with up to 1 - 3 years of Golang and PostgreSQL Experience.
if you interested you're welcome to contact me [e-mail]

[near ocean]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[fresh radish]

do someone here know how to get powerpoint for free?

[ember basin]

Hey guys, I am going to interview a candidate for the very first time tomorrow! I have been working at my current company for around 2.5 years now, I am a Django web developer.

The interview is for a python web developer role, for some reason I am as nervous as I am excited...

In the past I have attended a lot of interviews, got rejected in a few and been selected in a couple as well, but this is the first time I am going to be interviewing someone... I have been asked by PM to vet the candidate for python, html, css, js and Django skills...

I want to be fair, how should I vet a python developer?

Has anyone had a similar experience? Can you guys please share some advice for interviewing my first candidate, thanks!

[dense mesa]

<@&831776746206265384>

[fresh radish]

mods know how?

[fringe pine]

It's against our rules to provide help pirating software, if that's what you were asking. But I think if you're at school/university, you might be able to get access to Microsoft 365 for free through your institution.

[fringe sphinx]

What are the job responsibilities? You say "python web dev", how much is "web" a part of the job?

[fringe sphinx]

And, what level are they coming in at? Is this an entry candidate or expected to hit the ground running?

[fresh radish]

it prob going to ask for credit card and give me free trial for like 2month

[fringe pine]

I'd ask your school about it. Microsoft are keen to get people hooked on their products at a young age, so they have educational licenses. Btw, this is a bit off-topic for this channel; #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval would be a better place to ask.

[ember basin]

It's a mid-senior level post.

Job responsibility: maintain Django codebase, be comfortable with working in both backend(must be good) and frontend(should know basics atleast)

[fresh radish]

ok but what should i ask?

[ember basin]

We can't create theads in here ?

The interview is setup for a hour... I hate long interviews myself... I was thinking of asking them to code a basic web app along with me, but that seems like a overkill

And the interview is going to be via zoom btw

[fringe pine]

"Can I have access to Office 365 please", I would assume. See here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/education/products/office#FAQs

[fresh radish]

nvm will just try to find it

[dense mesa]

I like asking questions about their workflow:

Favourite IDE, debug this toy example program, least favourite feature of language X

[ember basin]

That seems like a nice way to start, since it's all going to be virtual, how do you go about the debug part? Use replit or something similar?

[fringe pine]

I guess make sure to have a clear idea of the qualities you want in the candidate, and make sure that your interview gets sufficient insight into those qualities. At the very least, you should have them complete some kind of task that tests basic programming competency (I mean like, fizzbuzz level competency), and then you might want to have them talk about projects they've previously worked on or have them show you some of their work. Coding a web app might be too much to fit into a one hour interview; have you got any work you've done recently for the company (bug fixes etc.) that you could have the interviewee work through with you? (Obviously make sure it doesn't reveal anything that's private to the company.)

[ember basin]

I am currently working on a ETL with Airflow, yeaa that might not fit into this

Giving some small coding task or asking to debug something seems good I think but I kinda don't want them to use ai or auto completes

To test basic programming competency, should I just be ok with them using any IDE?

[elfin scarab]

!pypi hikari-lightbulb

[inner wren]

hikari-lightbulb v2.3.5.post1

A simple to use command handler for Hikari

Released on <t:1727371806:D>.

[digital fjord]

I've usually been asked to use some online collaborative IDE (or a google doc)

[ember basin]

I once had an interview few year back where I was asked to in a notepad++ to avoid auto completes, I panicked and kinda flopped that

For collaborative ides, you were invited on the spot ?

[digital fjord]

Yes, just got sent a link

[ember basin]

I just realized replit has an option to create public links, that should do it I think

[digital fjord]

make sure you test it ahead of time, and ideally prepare a plan B, these services can be a bit temperamental

[mint oracle]

As a Summer Intern, you will be part of the PR&I
team, providing support to address missioncritical management challenges faced by senior
functional executives at leading global
organizations. In this role, you will work in a fastpaced agile environment to perform
primary/secondary/ quantitative research, along
with project and data management. ```
How can i create my resume according to it?

It's an mnc (research and consulting firm).

[fringe sphinx]

I get them to talk about a project in their resume: explain it to me, what issues they had, how it works, etc. if a GitHub link provided, walk me through the code, etc

There's also the general thought process questions like how would you move Mount Fuji or how many telephone poles are there in the US. This is more testing is the person is mature in their engineering thought process.

Then there's basic level questions that test if they even understand basic coding. The fizz buzz level of difficulty. You'd be surprised how many people bomb these.

[rain lintel]

Hy am new here

[peak halo]

hello and welcome to our wonderful python server; this is the career discussion channel. there's also #python-discussion

[deft plaza]

Hey everyone any recommendations for a formal CS research topic within the department at my college (first year student)?

[stoic shoal]

Hello @opaque jacinth , could we go in dms for a second?

If you agree, I can also say it here but I don't think it's channel related

[dense mesa]

If this is for your career, what kind of job are you interested in

[opaque jacinth]

I am packed with work at the moment. Try again in a couple of days please.
(not against dm conversations in general, it's just a bad time)

[stoic shoal]

Alright, thanks

[deft plaza]

I’m interested in backend development, but I also want to check out AI and ML as I’m not too familiar with it and it sounds cool. what research topic would be most beneficial?

[peak halo]

when you say "research topic", do you mean that you're currently at a university and have the opportunity to do formal research? or are you asking about things to look into informally?

[deft plaza]

Im currently in college and have an opportunity to do formal research but the prof is trying to figure out between the students and the CS department what we want to research

[peak halo]

@meager depot your message was removed; please read the #rules

[grizzled laurel]

i want to learn python for free . where can i find such websites ??

i am college going student (just ended my 1st year first sem )

help would mean a lot

[peak halo]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[spice peak]

just use libre office

[fresh radish]

k

[near ocean]

no and this isnt related to careers

[pure basin]

couldn't find a channel for jobs

[peak halo]

that's because what you're trying to do is against the #rules of this server. be sure to give them another read.

[pure basin]

my bad 👌

[safe coral]

Hello guys any feedback on my resume is welcomed!

[vapid violet]

A few places state
"increase ... revenue from X to Y"
I dont think this is super clear. Are you estimating the increase to be between X and Y?
Or was it X before your changes then Y after?

[safe coral]

It was X before and Y after @vapid violet

I feel like thats clear... From X to Y

[vapid violet]

Why not implement it as a percentage then? IE "increased ... revenue by 16%"

[safe coral]

so career services at school told me it would be much better to have concreate numbers rather than percentages @vapid violet

They were percentages before but they told me to back it up with actual numbers not with percentages

[vapid violet]

Ok, go with what they said, I dont have work experience to judge. It was just something I saw that I thought was slightly ambiguous.

[true harness]

how do you know that it was your work that increased the revenue?

[safe coral]

I sit down and talked with my boss xD

Im the only one in the hotel doing this kind of stuff and letting them know my findings

There's no one else working on it

[fast fossil]

when you say you increased revenue, are you accounting for inflation? especially over 5 years and COVID-19 in the middle
and what about profits?
how did the database contribute to an increase in guest satisfaction and how did you measure that?

[safe coral]

I did sentiment analysis and gathered most common phrases from guest surveys @fast fossil I used those and reported it to the management to see what to improve

so we did improvements based on the sentiment analysis I have like positive, negative, neutral

and found out the areas where we could improve in the hotel

Of course you need to track the trend over time to see the results.

[fast fossil]

so is 2nd and 3rd point about the same exact thing?
and what about revenue, profits, and inflation?

[safe coral]

no second is just guest survey satisfaction (sentiment analysis) last one actually uses guest preferences to tailor recommender system @fast fossil an yeah our profits reflect inflation. Though our hotel prices didn't change much at all within the last 3 years

[shadow birch]

I want to be a software engineer, but i am only 15. whats the best way to get started

[fringe sphinx]

You know University degree is important, right? So besides that?

[shadow birch]

yeah ik

but i live in australia, and the max i can get payed here is 175k, but i wanna make like 400k

[safe coral]

omg 400K?

[shadow birch]

yeah. my uncle makes that much

this is what he is:

Lead Software Engineer, Full-Stack Developer, and Subject Matter Expert with a decade of experience developing and sustaining information services and J2EE application. Strong experience in all aspects of project and development lifecycle, including requirements gathering and definition, software development, data modeling and integration, testing, and deployment.

[fringe sphinx]

To be a great software engineer, start with being a beginner. There's a lot of beginner tutorials you could start with. Learn the basics, do small projects, and keep going

[fringe sphinx]

At 15, don't worry about the career part, start with: learn about technology, learn to program, know the basics. If your school has a computing club or robotics competition team, do that

[shadow birch]

ok

[amber gale]

Hii guys

[fast fossil]

my intent regarding inflation was to find out whether the real value of revenue has increased as well, as opposed to just the nominal value

[indigo dove]

what does it even mean elaborate?

[peak halo]

this doesn't seem relevant to careers, but it means "to talk about in more detail"

[indigo dove]

oh okay got it

[dense mesa]

You're doxing him pretty hard here lol

[shadow birch]

its calm bro

[rain lintel]

Suggest me any beginner friendly project which reinforce my basics

[deft herald]

!kindling have you seen this great list? Curated by one of our members here, it has a lot of really good project ideas 👇

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[long solar]

Guys can I get a job with sub-3.0 gpa? my freshman year was brutal

If I get straight A’s from here I’d go from 2.75 to 2.9

[pine sleet]

Yeah

[long solar]

Should have transferred after my first year because gpa doesnt carry over

[deft herald]

You don't have to put your gpa on your resume

I sure as hell didn't. I think I got like a 2.8 overall

[near ocean]

recruiters would tell you not to include it unless its good

[long solar]

Yeah so by omitting youre telling them its sub-3 lol

[pine sleet]

not necessarily

but someone with a good GPA would most likely include it so

regardless it’s not terribly important

[long solar]

Who needs gpa on resume when you can put that you were a part of the cybersecurity club 😎

[pine sleet]

i wouldn't include membership in a club unless you were the club leader or something similar

[near ocean]

They might ask but they would probably just not even notice

You dont want to advertise that you got 2.8 or whatever grade

[dense mesa]

If you have little transferrable skills, GPA is important to differentiate you amongst the other mass of people applying for the role.

With a good and/or interesting background that shows you can be useful, GPA is not important

[deft herald]

The only time I was asked was literally on my first day of the job when my boss took me out to lunch - he said "why didn't you put your GPA on your resume?"

He also told me a couple years later my resume actually sucked and i got in on the interview alone 🤷‍♂️

[long solar]

Technically I am like vp of some club with only a couple members

[long solar]

Lol those soft skills saving you

[deft herald]

For real. Got lucky

Sometimes you just sort of click personality-wise with your interviewer and it can really go a long way

"Well he may not be the best candidate, but he would be really easy to work with". Sometimes that's the real need for any given team

[long solar]

Well my only work experience is a sales position (trying to intern this summer) so I like to think I have those soft skills

[fringe sphinx]

Hah, I was asked exactly once too. By a startup CEO. He didn't like my answer, but asked the engineering VP who decided to hire me anyway. Was a great experience.

[copper ledge]

Hi everyone,

I accepted a QA internship with a very large pharma company ($30/hr + housing stipend) but I just received an offer to work on the database infrastructure for JB Hunt ($21/hr + free housing). I am a second-year cs student, would I be hurting my future internship/job hunt by taking the QA internship?

[buoyant seal]

perhaps u can extend details what is included into working on database infrastructure? 🤔

[deft herald]

Sounds like you already made your decision by accepting the first offer. Since you're only second-year, you can always get another type of internship next year

even apply for JB Hunt again next year. You will probably have a leg up by being able to say "i got an offer last year but wasn't able to accept"

[fringe sphinx]

QA is great experience, and it doesn't "hurt" your internship. You might even learn more in QA than in a DB role

[deft herald]

Get those mediafire links outta here

[cunning leaf]

what did you say? It's my project

[vapid violet]

Put them on github, no one is going to download your project to look at it.

Additionally they are the exact same link

[cunning leaf]

I don't need to anyone download my project, it's my job ptofile if anyone need then see it

[deft herald]

What are you trying to get out of dumping your resume here?

[tender thicket]

!warn 1329970959620243617 if you want assistance with your resume, you can ask it. But this is not a place to drop it and expect job offers. If you do so, it will be considered spam.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @cunning leaf.

[weak dune]

Hey im trying to lern file i/o section but damn that things is hard as hell to understand man it's kinda confusing for me man is there any body that can help me to understand the file i/o like kid understand eating candy just looking at it

[final ravine]

This is the wrong channel, you might want #❓｜how-to-get-help or #python-discussion

[safe coral]

Yes

We had many more guests last five years

We improved our guest satisfaction

[mild island]

how do i type in python again in discord?

[deft herald]

!code read this 👇

[inner wren]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[topaz tusk]

hey y'all, im a mechanical engineering student and was wondering what projects I could use python for, how I could keep on working on my python skills and what a reccomended pathway is into studying and working on AI?

[peak halo]

if you're currently a mechanical engineering student, and you want to work in AI, the best thing you can possibly do--by a whole lot--is to do a masters (probably in CS) where you focus on AI.

The second best thing you could possibly do is still several times worse than that.

[ashen rampart]

@crisp wraith

[hazy sun]

idk where to ask this type of question (if im in the right channel) but, is freecodecamp a good resource to practice my current knowledge on coding? and expand it? hopefully?

[quartz grotto]

Hi, I'm considering a Machine Learning Engineer role at Cardinal Health. Is there someone who works in the Healthcare - pharma sector who could give me advice?

I currently work in a product based startup and started interviewing last month.

[peak halo]

how far along are you in the interview process for this position?

Is there someone who
be sure to never start sentences like this--always ask the question that you want that person to answer. don't wait for a commitment.

[open ivy]

I am much better at my personal project of making a physics engine (still a big task!) than I am at building an internet or cloud application.

So I am not sure what positions are more likely to heavily leverage the kinds of skills I am honing and seem to be natrually good at.

[quartz grotto]

Hi, I have the offer, but the team isn't transparent about the products they are building. Which scares me because in the current organization, when I first started out, I got a full presentation of products that were being built. I'm a Senior Data Scientist as of now.

[quartz grotto]

Thank you for this tip, I'll keep this in mind.

[sinful crypt]

Does a two page CV really reduce your chances of getting yourself out there?

I’ve heard of a lot of people who do get good results with a two page resume. Ofc this is showing relevant projects and skills.

But is there really a standard of one page?

[peak halo]

your resume should convey the most relevant information for the position that you're applying to that you can fit in one page. unless you're applying to a late-career position, my guess is that they won't even look at the second page.

[sinful crypt]

Hmm okay.

[peak halo]

when I was job hunting, I had my resume in latex, so that I could quickly comment lines in and out or adjust the wording for the job post in question. then I'd compile it to pdf and to txt, the latter being in case they ask you to restate the whole resume as text.

[sinful crypt]

No issues with ATS for Latex?

[peak halo]

you compile it to a PDF. I'm not sure how that's ultimately different from a PDF that was a Word doc.

[sinful crypt]

Ah right. That’s true. Content is still the same.

[near rapids]

Is web development still worth it even with ai

[fleet iris]

same question

and competition

its like half of my class are looking for front end web development and web design

[woven rapids]

How to ask for help here?

I posted on #1035199133436354600 and got it locked

[turbid panther]

yooo hello

[gray zodiac]

Chatgpt,collapse again?

[near ocean]

Sir this is the career discussion channel

[hearty totem]

Ask them, honestly. Tell them that you'd like more information about the product and about the mission they work for. Another way to phrase it is to ask about why they are passionate to build the things they are building. Since I started working in ML for biotechs I never looked back. I always found very honest and passionate people in it. This may be my reasonably small sample but people in biotech tend to be passionate about what they do - and be keen on talking about it

[vapid jay]

29 year old from texas, looking to learn python and other programming languages to hopefully better my life. I came from a graphic design field, when i learned that after losing freelance clients due to channel failures on their parts, its too volatile.

I have attempted to work at fast food, gas stations, most jobs wont even hire me, walmart wont call back LOL

I have no degrees or certs, willing to get certs, but cannot afford schooling.

I am learning python, a week in, and wanting to know if spending the next 6-12 months learning this language will set me up better in hopes to find ANY employment at all, i'm not picky.

I feel completely defeated with no way forward, and everything tells me to stay away from learning python, because without a degree, you wont get anywhere.

[pine sleet]

hey! also from texas. it is very difficult to break in directly into SWE or similar without a degree. I'd recommend looking into grants, loans, scholarships and other financial aid for college (it can even be free).
Another pathway you can take is try to get into tech-adjacent roles like QA testing, IT support, stuff like that and pivot into SWE later. it's not much but if you have previous work (even in unrelated field) you can use that on your resume. Projects also help, if you have a lot of time you can make some impactful projects

[vapid jay]

yeah unfortunately all of these ways need INCOME which, unfortunately, I DO NOT HAVE.
I will NOT go into debt for a degree that has a VERY low chance of actually landing me a job that pays off the debt.

as much as id love to get into coding, anything computer related which ive known my entire life, apparently is useless and my knowledge is not needed.

Looks like i'll be working a dead end job for the rest of my life barely making it by.

[pine sleet]

yeah, prioritize income over what you want to do for the time being if you really need it. It doesn't need to be a programming job. If it's just entry level retail or food service then it's just a numbers game

as for a degree, you can think of it more as an investment in your future rather than debt. the opportunities that are opened up to you make it far easier to pay it off later. but that's something you really just need to decide for yourself

[carmine isle]

Bro have some hope

[pine sleet]

and no, you don't need to work a dead end job for the rest of your life

only if you want to, though

[vapid jay]

just simply cannot afford a degree, any income i make from my dead end $9.50 an hour gas station jobs, will barely keep me fed and the bills paid.

like, im GENIUENLY giving up, im so over it all, there is NO hope, i'vre had hope for 9 years since i turned 20, doing everything I can, and it all leads to the same place.

i appreciate everyone in this discord for being helpful and kind, but its not me, it's not for me, programming isn't what its made out to be, its all pay money to make money, and if you dont have money to pay, stay poor.

[pine sleet]

i mean, we can't help you if you don't help yourself

[vapid jay]

i have helped myself, i freelanced for 2 years with only 1 client barely living off of $800 a month

i did EVERYTHING I could , to sutdying, improving my skills, marketing, learning new skills, it's all just dead ends. if you're not top 1% , you're not anything anymore.

[pine sleet]

more on the point though if you've already decided programming is not for you i'm not sure what else we can do for you here - this channel is for giving advice for people looking to break into programming

[white relic]

"if you're not top 1% , you're not anything anymore" is simply not true. There are not 99 underemployed programmers out there for every one in a decent job.

[vapid jay]

and yet while there are 99 underemployed programmers out there, there are 9999 that are waiting for someone to fuck up and take their place

[slender sandal]

Hey! @vapid jay and @pine sleet , I am a career switcher myself. I just had some great success and am still in the process of switching from tech project management to software engineering. @vapid jay I would highly suggest the following path:

1. Find a temp job now (fast food, retail, etc)
2. Use your free time looking for a remote/hybrid position doing marketing, HR, community engagement, or other basic, entry level corporate positions etc
3. Use your increased free time from the corporate job to sniff out opportunities in the company
4. Also use this time to simultaneously build relevant projects using python and AI libraries like Tensor and Scikit (start with tutorials on youtube and then build your own)
5. Final note: make sure you can eat and pay the bills first. You can't study and slowly improve (that's the life of a dev) without getting out of survival mode first.

[pine sleet]

good advice yeah, food on the table first

[vapid jay]

the issue is, even the fast food/retail jobs wont hire me, the turnover rate is so high, and they have 500+ applicants coming in

i applied and called into walmart 3-4 times, "we're not hirirng, we'll call back when we are"

[slender sandal]

They key is to not only hit apply!

[pine sleet]

keep applying. it's exceedingly rare to apply to many fast food or retail and still not get hired (unless you're a felon or something)

[vapid jay]

went in person to gas station multiple times , left name number to manager

[slender sandal]

Many will do that, my friend. You need to rely on some good old fashioned interpersonal interaction and, unfortunately, nepotism lol

[vapid jay]

i live in a town of 2000 people, we have very limited job offerings here, and with limited transportation, 30 miles to the nearest job just isnt plausible

[white relic]

I have plenty of objections to how the economy works, but I don't think "giving up" solves any of those problems.

[slender sandal]

Oh, I see.

[vapid jay]

the people in the town would rather hire the highschool students than people who actually need the job.

[slender sandal]

That is quite challenging. Do you have retail chains near you? Places where you can go in person and talk about open jobs?

[vapid jay]

i had a job lined up with my dad with the city doing some excel work, turning daily data sheets into monthly reports, but apparently i havent heard anything from that

i asked a family friend who works at the local gas station if they needed any help, they said "ill let you know"

i worked in fast food at the local dairy queen for a month, but that was just the worse experience ive ever had.

[pine sleet]

unfortunately there are only so many stores in such a small town

[slender sandal]

Maybe an opportunity to go into your dad's job and network a little bit?

[pine sleet]

(and oppurtunities in general)

[vapid jay]

hes foreman over the sewage department for the city, HIS boss may be looking for someone to help convert daily data sheets into monthly reports, and maybe yearly.

[pine sleet]

but yeah they are between a rock and a hard place

[vapid jay]

yeah, and im at the point where i just want the boulder to smash me

[slender sandal]

What happened with the DQ job?

[vapid jay]

apparently im not mentally stable enough to handle people calling me an idiotic kid, threatening me, and saying i clearly go their order wrong, when it was correct

they were pissed becauwse they didnt want to pay the full amount

im not going to be insulted and belitted for $9.50 an hour, id rather die.

i was 27 at the time, just because the dude was mid 40's why tf woudl they call me an idiot kid

[pine sleet]

sounds about on par for customer service tbh

[slender sandal]

I hear that. I really do. I'm 28 and I had to eat some serious dirt myself.

[vapid jay]

yeah, can't handle customer service through a franchise, when i was running my own freelance gig with design, it was easier to work with customers.

[slender sandal]

But having a goal of learning python and building cutting edge projects after work can really change your outlook.

[vapid jay]

but when you're uphold to a standard and forced to speak a certain way to customers for the companies "values"... it's just.. not me i guess.

i just took off my work short, told them i quit and walked out, i wont be disrespected by customers let alone management, unfortunately.

my meds keep me level, but they don't keep me from accepting a certain amount of disrespect.

[slender sandal]

Yea it really is not easy, but unfortunately, it may be a necessary stepping stone to getting the money you need to give yourself the free time to study and build. Maybe a different chain (they're not all the same managers_

[vapid jay]

i mean, i live with and take care of my grandmother, i have freetime to learn

i live off walmart dollar store frozen burritos and water

[slender sandal]

Oh that's good. So food/house is taken care of for the most part already?

[vapid jay]

yes, id just like to bring in some income, $600-1000 a month wihtout wanting to kill myself, to help with the bills.

im easily content, i went from making $1k a month, paying bills and living for the rest of the month with $100 usd

[slender sandal]

I would lean on my list above. Look for remote work. I have a good friend who specializes in making resumes to help with that.

[vapid jay]

id love to lean into it, but ive generally spent MONTHS having people review resumes, applying, finding linkeding/indeed listings, going to THEIR SITE to apply.

i never get email backs, never get call backs, never really get anything... even applied as an intern for free work to a animal sanctuary for web development

[true harness]

this would point to needing to improve the content on your resume

[vapid jay]

i guess so, but after 5-6 people looking at it and saying its fine, idk what else to do

[true harness]

build bigger and more complex projects

[vapid jay]

i even tailored the resumes DIRECTLY to the job listings i was posting for.

[white relic]

you said you were a week in to programming, so presumably those were all graphic design / other non-coding positions?

[slender sandal]

I also would advocate for applying to even more entry level jobs. Customer service, client engagement, marketing. Aim for tech companies but don't stop there.

[vapid jay]

yes, the majority of my applications were entry level / intern level design jobs or customer service jobs

i had enough experience in html/css at the time to do editing to websites without destroying anything.

now my idea was to learn into python and sql, maybe javascript , lean back into html/css and then use my graphic design knowledge to do something

but it's becoming so unmotivating.

in my mind, if a gas station wont even hire me, if walmart wont hire me, if literally nothing will hire me, then im just unhireable.

[slender sandal]

Well man, I know its hard, but I can tell you that you are not unhireable. It is just a bad market to be looking right now and it sounds like your location isn't helping. We are here to support you.

You can do this. Don't give up. Not to be trite, but it really is a marathon, not a sprint. You have to love the process of grinding towards the goal, otherwise, it will drive you mad.

[vapid jay]

PLEASE HELP ME

[slender sandal]

Happy to talk more, but for now gtg!

[fleet reef]

This is #career-advice
Ask for help in #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

Okays

[true harness]

you can send your resume here for review if you'd like

[vapid jay]

ill just have to create a brand new one at this rate, idek where my file went. got tired of being rejected.

[open ivy]

There is a FLOOD of young programmers who want to do online web apps and AI.

That is one reason why I am avoiding these fields as a primary skill. Too much competition.

But what are some skills in industry where few people want to go into?

[buoyant seal]

so far it looks to me like flood of people in web is only related to web frontend development.
Other web development fields look like all going nice and having not enough devs for the amount of job roles
amount of people eager to learn html/css/react-vue-angular is indeed high (because of online courses and etc)

[open ivy]

A lot of people seem to want to go into AI. But are you saying those mostly want to use the AI and actually build a frontend app with it, rather than the algorythim design behind the AI?

[buoyant seal]

not really care about situation regarding AI. 😛 so far it looks to me like money hype and pretty boring and expensive field. (Nvidia shovels money a lot with selling their videocards for that)
as a person that is fan of true AI/transhumanism and etc, i find current AI stuff insulting in how crude it is.
whoever wishes to take care of it, i will not be one of them. I wish to deal with smth less fishy than that and prefering to invest into more established software development skills

[buoyant seal]

All this stuff with AI is like a gambling with startups. only 2% of startups succeed.
So... all the stuff related to me looks like you know.. risky to invest and touch. At most i am only interested to be at some point user benefiting from it.
Sands of Time will filter away all the garbage hopefully (with people trying to put neural network usage to everywhere) and show a real world applications of those neural networks where they are able to bring real proffit and value (instead of just generating lies and making Dead Internet Theory as not theory)

[open ivy]

My side project is physics simulation, not AI.

It really is a challenge to make a novel 3D physics engine. Besides physics engine companies themselves, who is doing simulation and algorithm design? It doesn't have to be physics per se.

[buoyant seal]

Nice. Challenging. Some person in my gaming community tries reimplement space simulator game on his own as his project. Quite big and similar somewhat project in nature https://github.com/Librelancer/Librelancer
As person doing pet projects too, i would recommend to limit heavily scope of what you are doing, and making it somehow within human reasonable time frame reaches to have Minimal Viable Product

if person has too large pet project to complete, it is somewhat sad all the effort put to it and never reaching minimal viable product, never reaching the stage when it would be used by others

[fringe sphinx]

That's when a pet project becomes a baby project which grows into a adolescent project and an unruly teen project

[open ivy]

Limiting scope is a good idea.

I have several targets at various scopes, and the lower targets are well within reach. So at least I will have them to show for.

[dense mesa]

Pod based funds are growing like crazy now that the bottleneck of bad central infra is starting to burst.

People getting hired like crazy compared to big tech, at least in London and Switzerland from what I've seen

[open ivy]

What projects have you finished for which you limited the scope of?

How did you prevent the scope from going out of control?

[dense mesa]

It amazes me when people say this on discord/hacker news/wherever. It may not be perfect but it's pretty damn good at replacing a number of jobs.

You can 3x the output of junior engineers, as long as someone with experience is checking the work.

For fields like copywriting, travel planning, and whatever, it's materially shaking the industry already

[buoyant seal]

You can 3x the output of junior engineers, as long as someone with experience is checking the work.
So... u need to be smart than the system to check it.
And therefore u will get downgrade in output if using it 😏

Anyway, i don't like it because it promotes suffering in fact checking hallucinating system.
I made all my software development path a search for productivity and comfort from developer point of view. Mimizing my cognitive effort to write and maintain software.
Viewing this AI looks to me like introducing yourself to hell.
Some people are even not lucky in working in companies that generate this AI stuff and they are forced to fact check those hallucinations. I don't envy them at all. Sounds to me like living in hell 😅

[fringe sphinx]

Interesting question. I'm trying to think of a more concrete answer other than 'all of them involve some sort of scope control'. A lot of them nowadays end up me opting for extensibility (ie: making it easy to add that 'next feature') rather than baking it in. So, I have a lot of work projects where i push the 'scope creep' features into a separate repo and extend or patch it in for my special cases, rather than complicating the primary project. I dunno, just thinking out loud

[buoyant seal]

For fields like copywriting, travel planning, and whatever, it's materially shaking the industry already
Sure. There are i believe potentially quite good usage cases for its application. Search for cancer, or search for oil, and etc.
Heck, i like to use Grammarly to check my grammar and style of writing too. i think it is powered by neural networks too at this point. Probably google translator too

People are just trying to fit everywhere, where it should not be put too.
Like generating lies on internet. Those bad usage cases... make heavily negative view upon it that can over shadow its positive usage cases.

[dense mesa]

Dude if you give someone a task, and they use gpt to generate suitable tests, working code that meets those tests, and whatever else, that's pretty good on boosting productivity.

This is ongoing right now. I really don't get how people are denying it when there's waves of layoffs.

Sure the models hallucinate sometimes, but spending 2 mins cranking out a 95% working solution, instead of 2 hours on a 99% working solution...

Also hard to have a conversation if you're editing your messages every few seconds lol

[open ivy]

It is very valuable in some ways. What is so awesome about it? the training data. Think of how much work went into curating such a huge and high-quality dataset! That is the magic, and I think a database would be almost as good (maybe even better for people who got good at it's query language).

It's no surprise that thousands of training examples with how to use Flask or Node.JS or whatever in an easily searchable format is useful. This is an amazing feat to gather all this data. I calculated that the cost to pay artists to make all the DALLE data is on the order of $100 billion, so indeed it was largly stolen.

This is one reason why I am choosing algoryhtim design in my side projects instead of the cloud. For my project the tool use itself is fairly easy, but what is hard is understanding what needs to be made. THe cloud is often the opposite: Even a fairly standard use of, say, AWS Lambda and APIgateway can very quickly fail in very hard-to-understand black-box ways. Your best bet is to compare your failure to a working example; AI is good at this with all it's training data.

[dense mesa]

I've had use cases such as:

• pull this large, potentially messy data set from source A

• query another similar data set from internal API B

• do a few transforms and calculate greeks on the transformed data

• make this available live via some interface

Step by step, sure it's doable in a few hours or whatever. Claude (in this case) had most of it down in 20 mins.

[dense mesa]

Yeah think everyone has just moved on from the data being stolen lol.

Lambda is just the framework? It runs functions, doesn't do interpretation itself