career-advice

[peak halo]

Try showing an anonymized image of your resume and tell us more about the positions you've been applying to.

[tough plank]

Here's my resume

I'm applying for entry level python developer role or ai ml role

[storm scroll]

Hello, can someone help me with a very basic assignment for my university in python?

[trim crypt]

Read #❓｜how-to-get-help and ask in #1035199133436354600 . Not here.

[terse atlas]

how did you find me exactly?

[smoky quest]

I believe your main issue is your projects aren't making you as strong as you could be. The competition is strong.
It might be worth moving down the bullet about interactive videos and making sure you have bullets that demonstrate deep expertise

[wraith blade]

what are some promising fields that are worthwhile to invest in and much effort is required to put into it to monetize it

[balmy meteor]

@tough plank Here's my opinion. You want to work remotely(which less and less companies are offering), you are at the beginning of your career it seems like, so your skills have not been extensively proved, so looking from the eyes of potential employers, they see a beginner, who they only know through 1 piece of paper and maybe a short conversation or two. However, you want to work in a way where they cannot contact you as easily, and they cannot keep probably as close tabs on you as they would like to. You present more of a risk outside of the office then in it is what I am trying to say. To remedy the situation while still perhaps getting the chance to work remotely for a company, make sure to send letters of recommendation if you have not, as those really help, and offer to work for them (remotely or in-person) as a consultant for a couple of months, allowing them basically a trail period to see if you are who they need on your team, as then they can see you in action, and get to know you more. If you live in France, you know that in that country it is extremely static labor market, as French regulations make it very hard to fire workers(enhancing the positive effects of the aforementioned 'consultant' period), and make companies less quick to hire. Thats my best advice. If all fails, simply stay in your current job, gain experience, skills, and network. Take everything I said with a very healthy grain of salt, as I am just an American high school student based in French Polynesia. Oh, and one last thing, I don't know what companies you are applying to, but a growing amount of industries starting to hire programmers(or needing more) programmers like you, so think past the technology industries to other markets/fields as well, as it might broaden your horizens.

[sleek bridge]

I found you in steam mutual friend list you were playing dota 2 at that time and then I send friend request to you in discord and when I saw your profile there was this server in mutual so I asked you 😃 I don't have any friends who play dota soo.......

[terse atlas]

i do have some other people who also play dota with me i can invite you to that server if you would like

[sleek bridge]

Sure

I really want some friends whom I can play with

[young tulip]

Chat is cyber security good in Indonesia

I think this country really needs it because the fucking mainframe server of Indonesia password is admin#1234

and we literally got a ransomware on immigration mainframe server 3 days ago for sake

[whole flare]

I saw an article about it, was quite absurd.

[brazen island]

I don't know why the convention is to have a picture on your CV here but I think the rationale is that it makes it more human and not just a wall of text

[chrome musk]

Hello am in class 11 currently and learning python as first language .
I want to be a expert software developer .
Can anyone suggest me road map or give me advice what to do how to do

[balmy meteor]

@chrome musk yes I can. Anywhere but discord. Try google, do research on the different ways to learn python, and chose a learning method you like. Also, what do you mean be "expert"?. I would clearly outline my long, short, and mid term goals on along the path to become an "expert" developer. Idk, maybe read a book or 2 on programming.

[chrome musk]

I am doing python course from udemy

And it's really good and tough also that is required to be a skilled developer
Example :
Instead of using sum() we have to do using for loop and etc
That is also I am in day 4 out of 100 days
In each day there are almost 10 videos with programme to make

[balmy meteor]

@chrome musk That sounds like a lot all at once. In my experiance when I started to learn programming intensivly, I quickly burned out. It might work differently for you, but unless you have an steel level willpower, you likely will not finish the course. My suggestion would probaly plan something a little more 'realistic', over a longer period, and that way, at least in my experiance, I don't burn out.

[chrome musk]

Giving up in coding is common among all
I literally started at 9 or 10 years old then give up again I started at 13 then left again at 15 I quit
Now from past few weeks I have decided to give my full focus and potential to achieve it

[balmy meteor]

@chrome musk That's great. I'll take your word for it. my 2 cents would simply then be if you can avoid burnout, great, you got the rest. Peace, and good luck.

[tight sentinel]

are PCEP or PCAP worth it? because im trying to apply for one company they are asking any of these python certifications are compulsory

[hearty island]

morning everyone, how do we feel on the “I’m pleased to announce” post on LinkedIn for a new position? I was thinking of doing one

[late crystal]

Did you learn programming everyday in the initial stage?

[late crystal]

I feel the same way. I was required to learn programming and some amateur radio stuff when I was 9 then I quit at 11 since I had no passion. Then I was again required to learn C and Matlab at 18 and quickly gave up at 19.

[tough plank]

Could you please recommend me some good projects?

[dense reef]

like ive started learning python before 6 days and the one im taking courses from him says that i must learn command line to understand the full course now i have just one more video to finish the course im asking if its necessary to know all commands and go deep in command line or if u can just know the basics and work with it any help pls?

[tight sentinel]

yeah i feel that too and they are asking any one of theses certifications which includes AWS/AZURE/power Bi/Python

[regal axle]

Generally speaking, you will need to know the basics. And in the long run, you should learn more complex things. But for the most part, you can just look up command line stuff as they come up. I would still spend a little bit of time on the basics. But you don't have to worry about going in deep just yet.
(Also, this channel for career stuff. You can ask programming help in #python-discussion / #1035199133436354600)

Good luck on your journy

[hearty island]

so I took a look at my contract @fringe sphinx, asked HR for a copy

it says I can terminate the agreeement at any time

[fringe sphinx]

Thats how US employment generally works. They can fire you at any time, and you can quit at any time.

[hearty island]

ah, ok. still, 2 week notice for courtesy and etiquette

[dense reef]

ty so much

[wraith blade]

Try building a chessbot

[tough plank]

Okay thank you

[tight garden]

Roadmap to get a backend job with python

I currently know intermediate python, database connection enough, flask(moderate), some more stuff.

I need to know what more i needa learn to land a job

[gritty rivet]

https://roadmap.sh/backend

Personally though, when I got hired a few years ago, I just barely knew enough to build a basic REST API in Flask. If you're at that point, definitely start applying (especially if you have any sort of degree, professional experience, etc.)

[tight garden]

Actually I can too barely build an API but i can build it

But I don't think I'm will be able to crack the interview + i dont have formal education and also not advanced projects

I can tell my projects if you want😀

[gritty rivet]

Do share anonymized resume and/or portfolio here in the channel for feedback

A lot depends on where you are geographically. Find entry-level backend devs in your local area via LinkedIn or whatever and those people may have the best advice for you

[tight garden]

Arigatougozaimasu 🤧

[bleak spoke]

do apprenteship degrees not count as 'proper qualifications'?

what do yall think of this. I'm dedicated to self teaching programming but going to uni not so much. I rly wanna be earning money right off the bat and not get into debt for some stuff im prob not even going to use for my career

[fringe sphinx]

^ That "alternative paths" text downplays the importance of degrees, and overly simplifies a complex discussion.

It's also terribly written. "path into computer science": Computer science is the field of study, not a job title. It's another "false hope" type article that downplays a degree as merely beneficial, and doesn't distinguish between the types of jobs.

[tight garden]

Guys rate my resume and suggest me what more can i learn and what more projects can i do. (I'm not gonna apply for jobs atleast for an year)

[hearty island]

This is not it chief, I would try jake’s resume

it’s in the pinned

[tight garden]

Actually i just wanna know if the skills are enough

[fringe sphinx]

Skills are never enough. You have to demonstrate them with projects and/or experience.

I almost never look at the skills section.

[tight garden]

You're an hr?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm a hiring manager

[tight garden]

😶‍🌫️ the skills are beyond my reach for now

[fringe sphinx]

Start using your skills to build things.

[tight garden]

But what skills are enough to atleast land a entry level job

[fringe sphinx]

Merely saying: "I know python" means nothing to me.

[fringe sphinx]

Depends on the job you're applying for.

[tight garden]

So what can i do to mean something to you

Hey what do they ask in coding interviews?

Can i crack it without DSA. If my plan is to get a backend web developer job? If no then what topics of DSA are required

[fringe sphinx]

Again, depends on the job you're applying to.

[tight garden]

Back-end web developer

Let's say. Not big companies

I can do this

Ok so i tried learning DSA, it was kinda learnable. But when i go to leetcode or hackerrank then I'm blank

Thanks mate it really was a help

[bleak spoke]

Well it is chat gpt generated haha xd

are they closely related fields or like a degree in smthing like psychology would help me get a job in software engineer?

that sounds sick. idk why my parents are so insistent i go to uni if thats the case. like whats the drawback. other than maybe social life

ah ok. my teacher told me 85 percent of the time what you study at uni isn't going to be relevant for ur job which is an idea that i rly am not a fan of. sounds like a total waste of time

[fringe sphinx]

You can get got to tell you anything, given the right prompt. You want to be told to get a degree? Then prompt it that ways you don't want a degree? It'll tell you you don't

[fringe sphinx]

If only we could predict which 15% you'd 'need'

And, consider that a lot of information is about growth. Becoming good at maths, for instance, builds skills that help in programming.

[white relic]

then people would complain that the university system is just about churning out factory workers

[fringe sphinx]

(My comment was about the impossibility of such a task, to be clear:)

[white relic]

yeah, just riffing

[bleak spoke]

why not just delve directly into programming to begin with tho? The book I'm looking at says that you don't need to be good at maths for it

[fringe sphinx]

You're making all sorts of logical mistakes here.

Necessary vs useful, for instance.

[white relic]

any reputable university CS program will start you off with programming in semester 1, alongside math and other subjects.

[fringe sphinx]

Or, having a broad educational background vs a narrow one: which ones gives you a better analytical and career foundation?

We don't hire 'programmers', we hire 'engineers'. I think there's a difference.

[bleak spoke]

man i rly dunno if apprenteships or uni is right then

My friend is doing maths at uni and I think he said he's just doing it for the piece of paper. Like for the course in maths I'm doing rn it's all self teachable but it is pre uni stuff

i rly wanna be earning money asap tho

[fringe sphinx]

Whatever your path: plan for a degree.

[bleak spoke]

maybe apprenteships first and then uni later in life? Idk man

[white relic]

"just doing it for the piece of paper" always struck me as an odd way to say "doing it for increased opportunities for the rest of my life"

[fringe sphinx]

Self teachable isn't really true: sure it's possible but highly unlikely someone is going to truly learn abstract maths and the diversity of topics at the fairly fast university pace, nor learn from their peers.

[deft herald]

It's about the journey, not the piece of paper

[fringe sphinx]

It's like saying: sure? You could become a world class chef just sitting in your kitchen. But is that likely without working for a good chef and staff and restaurant?

[bleak spoke]

yknow i was just looking at an apprenteship for that

[white relic]

my paycheck is also "just a piece of paper"
but it's what it represents that is important to me

[deft herald]

Actually, my degree is an engraved sheet of steel

[white relic]

ah that's sweet

[deft herald]

yeah it's cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6JiseQoURY

[bleak spoke]

I might be a lil biased cause I'm resitting my A levels (pre uni stuff). Picked the wrong ones and my class and I were feeling like we wasted 2 years. I rly wanna avoid that happening agan

music music technology and english literature back then

yeah I'm doing different ones now including mathematics

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I don't disagree that Uni is a worst system, except for every other option (to paraphrase Churchill)

[bleak spoke]

i dunno what churchill said ha

[white relic]

democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried
is the quote, but it's out of context

[bleak spoke]

ooh ok thanks

[white relic]

A productivity bonus represents a defrayal that some working places extents to their workers, in order to gratificate them due to the accomplishment of some productive goals or objectives.
certainly one of the sentences of all time

[true harness]

"yeah uh, productivity bonus is money you get for being good"

[white relic]

going to start using "gratificate" at work and see what looks I get

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not sure how to use that in a sentence.

[white relic]

go around telling people you're going to gratificate them and you're at risk of being punched

[true harness]

chatgpt-ass abstract fr

[white relic]

defrayal at least is a real word and is being used correctly, although not the best choice for the sentence

[fringe sphinx]

Typical academic paper.l: a lot of time spent with the thesaurus.

[white relic]

"represents" instead of "is" is classic

[fringe sphinx]

Only thing worse is a patent.

[near ocean]

Wouldnt need all these formulas and calculations if they just gave me all the bonuses

[coral stump]

Guys, I got my PCEP cert, but is it worth it to get the PCAP? I've been studying for it but recently have wondered if I should just jump straight into building a portfolio with projects. Would the PCAP still be ideal for getting jobs, or is a portfolio enough?

[pine sleet]

neither the pcep or pcap are worth getting for swe jobs

[signal oar]

hey having a degree or diploma in datascience .. make me less favourable for the job in sde i like to do sde

with that said i would continue to expand my portfolio for sde

[pastel thunder]

I am struggling to maintain even 1 hobby/aim side-by-side of my SDE job.
I keep juggling between pleasing the manager by showing efforts and to actually have some progress to tell in the morning progress meeting.
Is this the same with all SDE?

One thing that can potentially be the reason for that is I have been asked to work for variety of thing in the past 6 months:

like learning 2 IOT architecture (almost outdated and have minimal resource) that project is built upon
mockito/spy for test cases
kubernetes
docker
mongodb
java
node

as someone who only did ML before and is a fresher, is this expected?

its a service based company

[balmy spade]

You'll need to leverage both. Do you have a degree? That would be the best leverage if you have no work experience in the field you are after already. The portfolio site needs to prove your value to someone who wants to hire you.

[balmy spade]

I keep juggling between pleasing the manager by showing efforts and to actually have some progress to tell in the morning progress meeting.

I'm a little confused by this statement as they seem like the same coin, just different sides. If you are making progress, you are applying effort. If you are applying effort, you have progress. Even if that progress is "I found three more ways that don't work which means the solution is leaning toward...."

[pastel thunder]

recently my dotted line manager changed, one has formed a poor image me, one has decent image.
They both have different way of judging performance. One wants results which is fine, but other focus on quality, attendance, over time, and show off. I am struggle to do everything along side by personal goals (which recently I havent been able to pursue).

I dont know if its expected to not be able to get any time at all while doing a job

[balmy spade]

Any time while on the clock?

[pastel thunder]

any time in the whole day

and recently I just dont feel like doing it. I think their expectation keeps growing with the effort i put in

[smoky quest]

have you had a performance conversation recently with your manager?

[balmy spade]

Time not on the clock for you is your time. Period. Time on the clock is dedicated to anything the job demands of you. Side projects are after-hours, always. Never mix the two.

Expectations do tend to grow with the effort you put in. You start to become the person who gets things done and that has positive and negative implications. You can safeguard your time by being cautious to not over commit. Keep the estimates higher than your first impulse. Communicate clearly but only on the tasks you are working on currently. Stay in scope, almost to a fault.

Yes, it can be very common in my experience to start to feel like you are sliding down a hill of overwhelming expectation. It's a skill, learning how to manage your own time while still providing that value your leaders want to see.

[pastel thunder]

yes, and it has peen pretty bad in comparison to the efforts

[smoky quest]

Can you expand on that?
Was there a plan to chart progress for you as a result?

[pastel thunder]

I think there was a time many months back that I might be taking too easy, wasnt told any specific directions
They only mentioned they want more results

[smoky quest]

have you asked for concrete examples?

[pastel thunder]

only one. but the image they have made has persisted till now

[smoky quest]

That's why you need to ask for concrete examples. So it's not about images. Playing devil advocate, you may interpret it as show off and missing concrete examples

[hearty island]

background check should be completed on the 15th

[pastel thunder]

it was a bug on which I was stuck for a while(came out to be cert issue, I had no means of knowing, devops guy caused it) ultimately i only fixed it, but delay was because manager was sure issue is from my side

[hearty island]

aaaaah. you got this homes ❤️

[smoky quest]

I can bet there is a whole set of examples they have in mind

[pastel thunder]

they likely do, but I think the effort i put in is far more than the peer who actually got good reviews

[balmy spade]

I'll second what recursive_error is saying here; if leadership is saying they want something, it is on them to tightly define what that something is. It can be a rough conversation to have, but without concrete targets you're just flying blind which helps nobody.

[pastel thunder]

do you guys get enough time to do something else, while doing job?

[smoky quest]

From what you describe, they would not agree with that statement

[balmy spade]

Time on the job is dedicated to the job. "something else" needs to be defined here to answer you more accurately.

[pastel thunder]

my whole day is basically spent in fornt of pc, working
sometimes on sunday and saturday also

[smoky quest]

People are compensated for results, not butt in seat. So that could mean you are working on the wrong thing, skill issue, you are working on too many things at the same time and never closing loops, etc.

[balmy spade]

This is where knowing what management is looking for is important.

[pastel thunder]

even though i am going to switch, I still worry if its gonna be same on the other place too.
But I cant think of one specific cause. If it was the efforts, I think in last 3-4 months I couldnt have worked harder/

but review has been consistent and only been good from other manager

[balmy spade]

But I cant think of one specific cause.

Ask for the specifics.

[pastel thunder]

this is what i am shy to ask.

[smoky quest]

If you have multiple coaches, it's not unexpected for them to share the load and split the areas of oversight

[pastel thunder]

he never interviewed me and my role also changed from DS to SWE

[smoky quest]

It's also not unexpected that some manager just avoid giving bad feedback, especially if another one is the bad guy

[smoky quest]

That's normal. It happens all the time. You won't go through interviews for all the team changes.
Typically it goes this way:

• If you apply to another team -> very likely to have interviews
• If you are changed to another team -> unlikely to have interviews

[pastel thunder]

its like everyone in team falls in 4, 5, 6 on 10 region but this manager praises 6 a loot, and 4 is thrashed

[balmy spade]

Like I said, it's a tough conversation to have. It's invaluable though.

The verbiage changes depending on what is important to your manager but it can be as easy as:
"I want to align on the values of the (team, org, company). Could we review one or two of my performance aspects that I can focus on and set an attainable goal in the next 30 days?"

[smoky quest]

not all teams are equal

[pastel thunder]

like opposite of praised

[balmy spade]

I have a leader who struggles to provide critical feedback. Everything is priase. So once a month we have to have that tough conversation of "What can I do to improve? Let's break down an area you want to see more of." They are usually more uncomfortable than I am!

[pastel thunder]

He did say somethings without me asking. but that only revolveds around:
why did you apply for leave only one day before,
you shouldnt leave before x o clock,
you should describe your progress on website where tickets is tracked

[torpid birch]

● Led a team of developers in designing and implementing applications and tools to streamline repetitive and bulk tasks, significantly reducing operational time and enhancing efficiency.
Adding this to my CV, should i also add some kind of metric?

[smoky quest]

Given how some can be quite sensitive to feedback, it can also help to flip the "glass half empty" to a "glass half full" mindset.
Instead of asking where you fail, you can always ask where you can do better, and how to reach the next stages. It can help remove some of the sting

[pastel thunder]

its never about "why werent able you able to do this"
its always on the auxiliary stuff

[smoky quest]

if you aren't performing, they are definitely going to look at the time spent on your task

[smoky quest]

I would suggest to rephrase it completely. That doesn't tell me what was done

[balmy spade]

I completely agree! That's why my opening question (for the current leader) is always, "Alright, let's talk about what you want to see more of out of me." The positive approach helps draw out areas that I might be lagging without realizing others would like to see more of me in them.

[torpid birch]

Mind giving me some pointers? I actually do not know what to make out of this point

[balmy spade]

and, to be fair to an excellent leader, they are dealing with four seniors who are at their limits of bandwidth and have been for two years now. Very aware our team is balancing on the threshold of burnout or exit.

[smoky quest]

For instance I don't know what are the types of repetitive and bulk tasks, their scope, their complexity, their impact.

[smoky quest]

The test is if you show your resume to a random engineer, they should be able to understand what you did

[torpid birch]

Oh i see, i was trying to keep this short and on the projects share what was really done. Ok i will add more juice to it

[pastel thunder]

It also sometimes looks like it is just hate. because he doesnt really do what he preaches

[fringe sphinx]

Lots of 'ands' make this just a run on sentence that says less. 'Designing and implementing', 'applications and tools', 'repetitive and bulk', 'time and efficiency'.

You would never talk like this to a human

[smoky quest]

I would suggest to not think about these. There might be other factors you aren't aware of. It's also not a constructive mindset.

[pastel thunder]

i try not to, I just want to have some free time which I dont get

[coral stump]

Thank you. Not quite SWE, but ultimately I want to get more into database work with SQL. I just was told that Python is the best first step into getting into that field. So I want to show that I know Python without it being the main focus since I’ll be going to SQL then probably HTML as well on top of it.

So if it’s not the biggest focus on my resume, I won’t have to worry about the certs? Just kinda key in that I know it and maybe provide a small portfolio that encapsulates an understanding of the key concepts

I know this is the Python discord, but if anyone feels there’s an issue with the other two languages I am working on please point it out lol. I was given this checklist of things to get by someone that doesn’t even really work in tech, just closely to it

[coral stump]

No degree, just alphabet soup

[pastel thunder]

the day i get comfortable with what I use, coincidentally they have me a new thing

[balmy spade]

That will be more difficult to leverage then. Certificates hold almost no weight comparatively.

[pastel thunder]

service based go burrrrr

[coral stump]

Ah, see I’ve always heard the opposite since I started. That certs are everything and degrees are becoming useless since everyone is getting them

I’ll have to look into that more then 😮‍💨

[fringe sphinx]

For sql, there's some great practice sites. Ask over in #databases

[pastel thunder]

not quite when social life basically 0.
You guys might remember I was pretty active here few days ago, see now

[torpid birch]

● Led a team to develop applications that reduced the time needed for networking tasks, including scanning, backups, and configuration management using python and third-party libraries.

Less "ands" and more human like?

[shrewd parrot]

guys how can i share this with a friend any discord links?

[coral stump]

https://discord.gg/python

[fringe sphinx]

Invite them to discord?

[balmy spade]

Ultimately, you have to have something that proves a demonstrable skill and value add to the potential employer. In place of work experience, the degree is the golden standard. Most certificates lack an authority giving them any demonstrable value. Even though some do have more standard behind obtaining them, the fact that most do not works against their value.

[pastel thunder]

cant ask for them to make it easy when they saying they want more productivity on my face

resigning anyways

[coral stump]

Ahh that makes a lot of sense. I did notice while looking at certs that they are offered by a lot of different organizations. Harder to uphold a standard that way

[fringe sphinx]

Logically that makes little sense. How could certs, which have far lower effort and accreditation requirements, possibly be more valuable than the more effort intensive and selective degree?

[shrewd parrot]

what if they dont like ur jokes 😄

[coral stump]

Idk, that’s just what I was told by the two people leading me into this

[fringe sphinx]

We send them to the #esoteric-python

[fringe sphinx]

Those two people are not professional engineers.

[balmy spade]

Yeah. If I spent a weekend collecting them I could go get a dozen or more certificates. Certs that actually demonstrate a degree of skill get lost in the ocean.

[coral stump]

True. One isn’t in tech and the other does cybersec cloud stuff?

[fringe sphinx]

Cybersec is a different animal. I believe some certs count there.

[balmy spade]

Like the general tech field, SecOps has a handful of certs that aren't freebies.

[true harness]

cybersec is pretty much only certs

[balmy spade]

SecOps is a specialist field of technology already though. So seeing the cert somewhat helps there.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, to be clear, my comment on certs was about SWE roles.

[smoky quest]

depends on which areas

[coral stump]

Ahhh well I’ll have to reevaluate my plan a bit. Going to school just for this doesn’t seem ideal, so I’ll look into leveraging what I have. Worst case, there’s free programs in my city that take 6-9 months to teach you whatever course you choose, then just place you into a partnered company.

Options are data analysis, web dev, SQL databases, and a few others I forgot. Those were the ones that caught my eye though

[smoky quest]

it's more for the executant roles.
No different than how cisco certs are super valuable for people whose job is only to muck with switch/routers

[balmy spade]

Because it's a specialist field that doesn't have a strong standard education route (yet).

[pastel thunder]

what vu deja?

[torpid birch]

Is there a guideline to follow when writing the experience topics?
For example X, Y, Z in order or something similar?

[coral stump]

Alternatively, just quick pivot myself to study cyber security 🤔

[smoky quest]

I see a lot of resumes from bs/ms in cybersec coming out of Stanford and I guarantee you they are taken very seriously. But they also don't apply to the same roles

[smoky quest]

I like to follow something not too far from the STAR method

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe start with some fundamental skills. Linux and basic Python are good places to start, to build a technical foundation.

Or Vuja De: the feeling that the current situation has never occurred before.

[faint depot]

Nah man. Degree apprenticeships are just as valid as a normal degree and may I say, even more valuable as you get proper work experience as youre working in a company whilst getting your degree. Tbf with you, im stuck in deciding either to do an it apprenticeship or engineering. Fucking suck but it is what it is

[smoky quest]

They are both equally valid path, but I wouldn't say the apprenticeship has more value

[fringe sphinx]

https://youtu.be/gWBUO3jS-Ys?si=tYe0JUR4m1ZSMOJ_ vuja de reference

[balmy spade]

If software development/engineering ever became a trade-skill the apprenticeship might overtake a degree. But I haven't seen things moving that way in the last few decades.

[twilit portal]

Are there other tech fields where certificates matter and a degree isn't necessary?
Preferably a field that would allow me to get some work experience, leverage my coding skills and then use that to get more into development (or into data analysis)

[smoky quest]

any trade job like electrician

[fringe sphinx]

This is great thinking, and yes there are many entry points into tech. QA, help desk, operations, etc all may have lower entry requirements than SWE.

[twilit portal]

QA does seem up my alley, I guess I would have to get good at unit testing and various testing automation tools?

[balmy spade]

And paperwork. :) Lots of communication and reporting in QA. Good skills to have.

[mossy stag]

can I directly start C++ after python? someone said that would be okay and someone said I cant learn C++ without experience

[fringe sphinx]

QA is a very wide field, ranging from very manual stuff to full engineering roles.

[smoky quest]

QA is an interesting field too, albeit having had quite a bit of transformation over the past few years

[balmy spade]

Hopefully that transformation has seen QA moved closer to the dev teams and treated as part of the process instead of the after-thought.

[twilit portal]

That also seems very much up my alley
I wouldn't want to do very manual stuff, especially since I already know some programming, I feel like I could leverage that for an automated QA position

[twilit portal]

Oh? What kind of transformation? I would love to know more

[balmy spade]

I do not know many people who enjoy the tedium of manual processes. We do what gets the immediate job done and improve it when and where we can.

[smoky quest]

More like eliminated low level QA, focused on more skilled QA people who could automate the testing infrastructure.
As a rule of thumb, if a company needs dedicated people to write tests, that's a sign there is something dysfunctional or that it is quite cumbersome/complex to write and tests

[frosty cape]

I understand Python is one of the main languages used for ai development, but is it just python and a DB language?
getting back into programming, the lack of colons, explicit data types etc. feels really weird since the last language I tried to sink my teeth into properly was JS.

[balmy spade]

I'll choose to take the grain of positive in there that the position is being treated as a skilled job.

[smoky quest]

Indeed!
But it also means the bar to entry has also been raised

[twilit portal]

Thank you everyone for your answers!

[fringe sphinx]

I'm seeing more hybrid support/qa roles at smaller companies, which works pretty well (cross education)

[smoky quest]

Can you tell me more about it?
I have seen companies trying to avoid that due to the conflict in responsibilities

[fringe sphinx]

Seems to be more that support is expected to rotate in or help with manual testing during release sprints. I like the idea of support participating in hands on testing, both to educate them, and to get a different perspective in

[smoky quest]

ah rotations. Thanks!
I did see the opposite where devs would rotate to support to build empathy

[balmy meteor]

@frosty cape python is the most popular for machine learning, but languages like R, Java, and a couple others are popular with machine learning enthusiasts:https://www.springboard.com/blog/data-science/best-language-for-machine-learning/

[torpid birch]

Roast this one please?

[chrome musk]

Is that class 11 question?

[peak halo]

this is the career discussion channel for Python Discord. This looks like a pure math question.

[balmy meteor]

@lilac badge I don not understand the problem or how it relates to programming, but openai has made a camara version of their gpt that you can show this problem and hopefully get some answers quick.

[lilac badge]

@chrome musk no

[peak halo]

And I see that you're already in the math discord, so please go there @lilac badge

[chrome musk]

Then which subject 💀

[peak halo]

People who continue talking about math after this message will be muted.

[balmy meteor]

bruh

[chrome musk]

The question is pure math concept one chapter is there

[peak halo]

!mute 1153239046605242450 "3 hours" Continuing to stay off-topic in #career-advice after being asked not to.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @chrome musk until <t:1720559466:f> (3 hours).

[peak halo]

The last on-topic messsage was this person's request for a resume review. Please help this person.

[lilac badge]

My bad but you didnt need to ban him . Deleted the post anyway

[white relic]

It's wordy, but thin, IMO.
Can you make bullets out of some of those specific projects rather than out of the technologies/skills you supposedly exercised? For example, instead of "created and managed sql databases using MySQL and SQLite" something about the specific purpose / impact of those databases you created?

[frosty cape]

play thank you

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I definitely believe in that... and that devs need to rotate in for manual testing too. I took over a team once where non of the devs had ever installed the product

[regal axle]

Yea, overall not bad. Could be a little more impactful. But also I don't think it requires that much more "impact". How much more will be an "argument" that many people here don't all exactly agree on.
Also, little side tip, make your bullet points actual characters. it makes it so much easier to control the spacing and padding and much easier to copy stuff around. ●

[white relic]

there's a pattern many people fall into where they write bullet points like "used databases to do database things" but don't describe the unique/interesting/difficult parts of the tasks; it is giving me a bit of that vibe.

[regal axle]

Yea, I see that too. But the SQL point is the biggest offender of that. The other points are not as guilty

[torpid birch]

I see your point, i will try to add more "juice" to it

[torpid birch]

Thanks for the input, and sorry for the question but by characters you mean like:
a.
b.
?

[white relic]

The first and fourth bullet points are the strongest, IMO.

[regal axle]

●
Or other versions like it

[torpid birch]

Oh so just the character and not the auto ones ok

[torpid birch]

The Linuex one isn't that good? like maintained, reduced downtime etc

[regal axle]

Yea. It is a very minor thing. But I have found it easy to wrangle formatting with the actual charater. And also I have definitely filled out a few forms in a very lazy way; and just being able to copy the actual bullet points themself, has been very useful.

[torpid birch]

I see, good point

[white relic]

It's just rather generic: "Maintained servers [by doing things that people who maintain servers do, using tools that people use for that purpose]".

Reducing downtime is good, perhaps you could explain what policy or changes you made that resulted in lower downtime.

[torpid birch]

Ok so, i need to add more content in the sense of what was done to actually get that result

[white relic]

Yes, I think that would improve it.

[torpid birch]

Ok thank you, i did not add much because i was afraid of the phrases getting too big

[regal axle]

It is all about how it all fits in. But yea, I try to prevent my points being 2 lines long, unless I really really need it longer. But if I do need more space, I just mess with my margins. I say that, becuase you have a ton of margin space to play with. The space between the bullet point and the words, is large

I mean, at this point, my margins are locked in. But at the start, it was a bit of fiddling

[white relic]

You can break up bullet points too. "Secured Linux servers following company guidelines" and "Reduced downtime [by doing XYZ]" can be two bullet points in the same space you have one multiline one.

Just for example.

[torpid birch]

Also should i space more the lines? to be easier to read?

[regal axle]

Without seeing the whole resume, it is a little hard to give an answer to. But the spacing seems fine. Probably

[torpid birch]

Here

[rich viper]

i am a python freelancer who just got my first gig, friends brothers (startup) and he actually told me that once the project is done he told the payment is entirely up to me which has now actually left me in an awkward position tbh

i was told i could choose between hourly payment or project completion one time payment and was asked to choose the amount as well which is the more awkward part

could any experienced freelancer guide me through this problem in a way where i dont look bad in his eyes

mainly needed a solution on what payment option to choose and how much should i charge him lemme explain the gig in short as well i was asked to connect make.com https get method to call an api and make it automated so it runs every sunday

[torpid birch]

I always think the resume is too tight, but maybe it's my pea brain

Fixed some errors, Zabbix and Grafana

[rich viper]

i can see you have a lot of experience but i hope you dont mind me suggesting some changes

i feel you could majorly cut down on the job description and elaborate on the skills by dividing it into parts such as programming languages, frameworks, and tools

[pastel thunder]

i know but what kind ogf deja vu you had

[regal axle]

Oh yea, you can make your margins smaller for sure and move the paragraphs closer to the bullet points. As for line spacing, it seems fine. You can make it slightly larger becuase you have more vertical space. But if you are ever running low on vertical space, you can return it to what it is at now (I have mine at 1.15).
Not sure if you removed it because of staying anon, but you should have the name of the company in the job experience line

Also, just got done with another interview. It was a little awkward. But I blame the interviewer. I mean, it is "my fault" too. Well, no one is "at fault". Regardless, it was definitely a little stiff.
I have such mixed signals about the position. It kinda sounds like I am the only candidate. Maybe not, but that is what it sounds like. Or maybe I am just the most favored? That could be the case.
And then the fun "go to this office" but that location doesn't have an office yet. Well, luckily I don't have to go to that location. I can go somewhere else. And so I will. It is strange to hire for an office location that doesn't exist yet and then to have every employee I talk to, tell me not to go to that location :D

[vapid jay]

in your resume for relevant coursework, can I put the subjects that I haven't taken but I will take when I reach my final year of university? Or do I put the subjects that I have taken/currently taking?

[regal axle]

Taken / currently taking. And also, ideally, you are able to fill it up with enough stuff to not need a "courses" section imo

[vapid jay]

oh I see, I don't have a seperate section for relevant coursework, i just have my relevant coursework in education just under my degree and uni

[regal axle]

It depends on what you are applying for. An internship? Then it is fine. An entry position / new grad? Should be ok. A position? Ehhhhhhh prob not

[torpid birch]

Yeah i blanked it, honestly would not hide it since it's one of the main ISPs of my country 😄

[torpid birch]

I will try to come up with something, i tried to generalize a bit and then Bold the key points

[gritty rivet]

Start by estimating how long you think it will take you, then add 50%.

For a fair hourly rate, consider what you could earn doing something else, and also what he would pay on Fiverr or Upwork

Once you've decided on a fair cost for the project, I would charge hourly if you're afraid your estimate could be wrong or if the requirements are unclear. If you're confident that you can do it in a certain number of hours, maybe charge him flat rate for the task

[white relic]

My thoughts: 1) use more bullets, fewer words per bullet. 2) when you break them down, some of the bullets are redundant or weak; trim it down to the actions you are most proud of or able to sell yourself on. 3) be more specific about the project goals/accomplishments, like mentioned earlier. 4) reduce redundancy: when you have Git in your skills section, you don't need to have a bullet point for "used Git for version control" in the experience section; that's what Git is used for, it's not a strong selling point.

What I mean by 2) is: if you take the first bullet point and break it into

• Led a team
• Developed applications that reduce time needed for networking tasks
• Used Python and third-party libraries

The first point is fine to mention, but you could strengthen it by adding the size of the team and maybe what leadership tasks were a part of your role. The second point is literally just the definition of "network automation"; it would really benefit by being expanded into one or a couple of concrete examples. The third point is already covered in your skills section; IMO it's not necessary to mention the language of implementation in every project, that would be something you talk about in an interview when it comes up.

[torpid birch]

Ok thanks for the explanation, i will try to redo some of the stuff and post again to see if i am going in the right direction

[torpid birch]

Something in this lines?

[lost fern]

Looks good! Did you use any particular framework for incident management like ITIL, and any software like Jira or Service Now? It might be worth mentioning these things explicitly.

[woeful spruce]

Have an interview next week for a job I feel somewhat under qualified for. Major imposter syndrome occurring.

[fringe sphinx]

Look on the bright side, if they hire you, they're the imposters. 🙂

[woeful spruce]

We are all imposters

[radiant vortex]

Sounds sus

[regal axle]

So. I had an interview today with a company and role, that was ,,, not the most sexy. It is very modern corpo. So it comes with nice benefits like good pto and the likes. But the company isn't engineering focused, in structure. I just wonder if I should even care. I don't need my job to be sexy or anything like that. I am a little more away from the actual product itself than I would like. But otherwise, I think I would be fine. Not like something I would be fan-girling over. But also not something I think I would be miserable with.

The comp is not bad either. But that is dependent on the office. If the pay I was shown is only for the expensive office,,, ehhh. But if it is for any of the offices, it becomes better. And I think I might be able to negotiate to be any office. Due to a few things. Point being, is that I do have reserves about the position. But also, I might just be overthinking things. Most likely I am.

The big thing, is that everything is moving very fast. A good thing. But maybe too fast for me to move along with other companies to get multiple options. This isn't the end of the world or anything. Just makes it harder to weigh my options

[fringe sphinx]

It's very hard to predict which job you'll like. For me, it comes down to customers and coworkers: a good team (ppl I like to work with) and good customers (who appreciate what I/we do) is my happy place.

[smoky quest]

One way to look at it is to project yourself 1-2 years out and if you would be proud of yourself and what you have done?

Note also that it can happen that someone finds a super cushy job but then struggle to find their next one because they have nothing to show for. So there is a trade off

[regal axle]

Yea. The team is scattered around the wind. All in different locations. So there is that... and the customers is ill defined. Sometimes internal sometimes not. But I do get what you mean. I just also have a lot of strong pulls in my life, for me to just get out of where I currently am. And so Idk if I will end up making a rushed decision. And yea, idk that it will be anything fancy to show off about. Doesn't seem like it. But then again,,, I can also just use it as a time to wait out the market and get more experience with a big (medium) company (400-500 employees).

[smoky quest]

Ask them questions like:

• What problems is the company trying to solve in the next 3-6 months? How is your team contributing to them?
• What is the main feedback they get from their customers?
• What problems is your team trying to solve in the next 3-6 months?
• What is the criteria for success for you? What would make them say you were a great hire in 6 months?

That should help you get a sense of what you are getting into

[smoky quest]

The main issue I see reading that is you don't sound excited by it. If you ain't excited by it today, chances you won't be excited once you land the job.
Personally, I look for jobs I am excited about and can see myself enjoying. Life is too short.

[regal axle]

Thanks, these are good questions. I will save these

[regal axle]

Yea. I get that too. I think my lack of excitement comes from a few places. But it is strange. Becuase I think the position is good for me if it was like 1-2 years later from now (I mean the company more than the position or whatever). In the sense that my needs / wants for my life don't align with it today. But I think they would in the near-ish future.

But thanks

[torpid birch]

Ended up with this, think i am done for today at least. most likely rereading it tomorrow.

Also i am currently being paid 1100 Euros after taxes + lunch money (200 euros, Europe things), how shafted am i being?
Role is the first on the list

[gritty rivet]

It depends on where you are located exactly. What are other jobs you qualify for paying locally? Check job listings, Glassdoor, etc.

[torpid birch]

I've been getting offers of 1800-1900 Euros for python developer jobs and sysadmin since i started searching again, I will start applying for DevOps too since i have TCP/IP knowledge, just missing certs.

[thick widget]

What do you guys believe is good things to put in CV when you dont have professional experiences on programming and when you dont have a degree . _. should i put that i finished high school on education section or remove the education section?

[sour iron]

If you have another degree shouldn't you still add that degree

[smoky quest]

projects can help

[trail cargo]

why should i study python? I don't know how to get interest in python

[smoky quest]

no one can tell you what should your career be

[trail cargo]

it's like, I'm about to join some MNC as full time. Did an intern there. It's some big data role. For apache spark they are telling me to learn pyton before full time. Idk why but I think I won't like python

[brazen island]

This depends so much on where you're working in the EU.

In Belgium yes you'd be lowballed because that wage is under minimum wage.

[fringe sphinx]

Do you know any languages?

[trail cargo]

yes c, c+++. know JavaScript too but didn't enjoy it

[fringe sphinx]

Python is the dominant language right now in the data world. If you want to do data work (including ml/ai), learn Python.

[trail cargo]

I'm sure I would never go into ml/ai. except this any other thing? and also like what about scala?

[fringe sphinx]

You have a job in 'big data'. What do you think this entails? (A lot of Python and likely Sql)

Your job said: learn Python. I don't get what your question is: who cares if you like it?

And if you're doing Spark, you'll probably need some Java too.

[shrewd gull]

Which country are u in?

Im guessing eastern europe

[trail cargo]

ummm, yes i got it. i just wanted to know that what makes python different except being easy. like the pros of learning it. scala can also be used with apace spark and it's relatively fast. what's the benefit of using python.

just anything that makes me feel excited to learn the language, like any famous tools or utility that is built in python

[fringe sphinx]

Python is one of, if not, the most popular languages right now. Thats like asking what makes English popular. https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023. Don't even know where to start.

[lapis wind]

The entire AI ecosystem

[torpid birch]

Portugal

[trail cargo]

okay

[brazen island]

Don't know anything about PT's salary situation but it seems low to me. @turbid bobcat is the expert for this one

[livid stirrup]

i’m a junior qa engineer and i make about 1100 a month, i think he’s selling himself short

[twilit portal]

Oh I'd love to ask you some questions, as I'm thinking of working in QA. What do you primarily do as a junior QA engineer? What were the requirements to get hired for this role?

[near ocean]

Why are you thinking of QA?

[twilit portal]

I was told it's a field that's easier to break into. I don't have an option to get a degree
Also just seems like something I would enjoy, if it involves automation

[chrome musk]

Which field in computer science world pays the most ? (India)

What is the advice about full stack or backend or frontend etc ?
I am in class 11 so I am just focusing on my basics of python learning
I don't know about this front end or etc
Can you tell what is the difference in them and which is hard or pays more ?

[graceful owl]

Being a sweng at a quant universally pays pretty fucking insane though

[fringe sphinx]

Focus on breadth, not depth, at this stage. Learn about all the topics now: a new engineer should learn a little of everything.

[near ocean]

If you gotta ask about high paying jobs, youre already behind and not making it as a quant

[young tulip]

I know the best way to get into high paying jobs,

Just be blood related by the boss or CEO

[graceful owl]

They're in high school, I think it's fair to not know about quant yet

All my quant friends didn't know about quant before university

[fringe sphinx]

(Not all quants make crazy $$, by the way)

[near ocean]

Most quants make crazy $$ relatively

[fringe sphinx]

https://www.efinancialcareers.com/news/2021/08/pay-quants-globally

Those are good numbers, but not the mythical numbers often cited

[hearty island]

there are a lot of quants on the r/FC server i'm on. those guys are wicked smart

[fringe sphinx]

Or they just know things that you don't know.

[hearty island]

haha, true

but the mathematical aptitude they demonstrate is amazing (imo)

[graceful owl]

In EU at least quant numbers seem p huge compared to regular sweng, maybe in the US it's different because general sweng salaries are much higher

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps: but they feel the same way about our coding.

[graceful owl]

My quant friends are making around 5x my salary, and I'm a somewhat senior dev

[near ocean]

Do they? The quant people i know do a heavy amount of coding

[fringe sphinx]

My point isn't that the crazy numbers aren't feasible, my point is more that -some- people unlock the numbers by being excellent quants. Not merely by being quants.

[fringe sphinx]

It's hard to generalize about quants... There's many types

[near ocean]

They all seem to be making significantly more money than the average software dev 🤷‍♀️

[hearty island]

let's see, i make like 80K foc. don't they make triple that?

[fringe sphinx]

They can, but https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/quantitative-analyst-salary-SRCH_KO0,20.htm is my counter https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/senior-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_KO0,24.htm

I'm primarily basing my point off knowing some non big bucks quants

[hearty island]

ah, ok. well thanks for the knowledge!! my friend actually wants to break into quant as well

he's aiming for de shaw and whatnot. ren tech.

[near ocean]

Why is the swe a senior title? The quants i know only have 3-4 years exp and make £100k+

[hearty island]

i'm genuinely happy with what i'm being paid tho, i thought my eventutal offer would be like 60K.

[near ocean]

This is what i see

I make 50k as a swe and my quant friends also make triple

[hearty island]

i make more than my friends but like i'm kinda locked at that for now?

ofc i'll get raises and stuff

[near ocean]

London yes

[hearty island]

i'm in the NY area, LI specifically

[near ocean]

Why would you do that to yourself lol

[hearty island]

Me?

Oh you’re talking to melio my bad

[graceful owl]

I have a couple friends at Jane street, the salaries are honestly sickening lol

[hearty island]

I got an initial round from Optiver actually. Tore me a new one haha

you really have to know your shit and you can’t cheat because they will actually make you take it again during your onsite

[torpid birch]

Sorry was busy, couldn't answear.
Checking older messages now, but for what i've seen yeah i am getting fked really good. I've been doing fullstack because i had to create the frontend + backend of the apps, i still do because the "team" is not 100% dedicated to the project, they have other tasks. I am the only one 100% dedicated to it thus having to do everything.

And i would love to work outside of PT since today jobs are only outsourcing and they are becoming really greedy with the budgets. I would love some tips on out to reach to jobs outside my country since what i usually see is hybrid or on-site and well, they clrearly don't want to pay my trips 😄

[pastel thunder]

I have heard people getting 300k as fresher in quant

[chrome musk]

Wt* is quant, everyone is taking about it

[gritty rivet]

I googled it for you: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/financialcareers/08/quants-quantitative-analyst.asp

[livid stirrup]

BUT

Strong python skills obv, my peers don't have degrees but do have alevels in computer science
Ability to use playwright has helped me as it's mainly automated web testing
problem solving mentality
being a strong communicator.
be confident
be very good with documenting all iterations of tests you've written, as sometimes an entire days work can come down to four lines of code, when it was really a lot more than that

i also did my maths wrong, i make 1600 a month and the company is based in london but i work from home in rural england with my dad in the office next door to my bedroom

[chrome musk]

Is quant related to maths ?

[livid stirrup]

yeah, don't worry about that yet, get some basic programming done first.

[chrome musk]

You are in which country

[twilit portal]

Thank you!
I'm a bit confused, what are "alevels"? Like a certification?

[livid stirrup]

i mentioned abov

[livid stirrup]

yeah, you get them for finishing school in england at 16-18, but honestly your best bet is to just apply and apply and apply. learn something like playwright and apply for every remote testing job you see!

[chrome musk]

In India I don't know why in most jobs pays very less

In Google showing only around 2000 dollar per annum

[livid stirrup]

the honest answer is that india is a poorer, less developed country, so they don't have to offer so much because living costs are lower. I'm sorry if it sounds like a shitty thing to say

[chrome musk]

*Average salary

[twilit portal]

I see, thank you again!

[livid stirrup]

if i can do it, anyone can, i am really really shit at actually coding, but if you're a good problem solver with a good work ethic you'll do fine

[chrome musk]

Only focusing on politics and all . Nothing on development of country nor even pushing younger generation just doing their politics

[livid stirrup]

i told you why the salaries are lower, i'm very sorry mate. I didn't mean to upset you or anything like that

[marsh zenith]

are you from india?

[livid stirrup]

I'm english and I'm doing a degree in finance and investment so i do know what i'm talking about

[torpid birch]

Ok thanks, i will try that. I think my CV is better than before so i will keep this one.

[twilit portal]

Well the cost of living is also lower. If people can survive on less money, they will take the job for less money.
Like, someone in California (very expensive to live in) couldn't even survive on many times your salary probably

[livid stirrup]

yeah exactly, my salary is also affected by the fact that my employers know my living situation, so they don't have to pay me as much as they would a fully qualified qa engineer

remote roles will be your best bet anyway

thats actually illegal in some places

the uk is a mare right now

new gov is probably gonna help a bit but its gonna be a hard time for uk households everywhere

[torpid birch]

Every offer i am getting currently is for sysadmin, guess i am changing from developer to sysadmin 🤷

Started applying yesterday for some devops jobs but all in the country, need to broad myself a bit more. Tho some of them ask for certifications like CCNA, and i do not have it

[vapid jay]

Hi

[hearty island]

anyone have any tips for a person breaking into cybersec? i told my friend to rack up on certs and general IT knowledge

but like idk cybersec that well

[livid stirrup]

degree unfortunately

[hearty island]

yea she is doing her degree in CS

[vapid jay]

Should I choose discrete structures course or fundamentals of computer science in college

[whole flare]

CompSci or CyberSec?

[tall mason]

Help me writing this

[hearty island]

comp sci

[whole flare]

I see.

[vapid jay]

Anyone?

[hearty island]

i told her to talk to a contact of mine

let's see how that goes

[fringe sphinx]

This is the careers channel. For help, see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[fringe sphinx]

Don't you need both?

[hearty island]

university career relations wants to invite me to alumni events now 💀

[whole flare]

Makes sense

[slender copper]

Hi guys, this isnt python related. But id appreciate some feedback or input. I am currently studying for the comptia a+, as well as a few other courses heading towards CyberSec. My learning resources are, videos that include a powerpoint presentation and a speaker analysing each slide/discussing it. What is the best way for me to retain this information. I have tried pausing and taking notes on key points, or watching the full video, noting down what i remembered then re-watching and taking notes that i havent already. Sorry for the essay but thought a more detailed question would get a more detailed answer 🙂

[near ocean]

Its weird theyre spamming me too, but when i needed them in the pandemic they were useless

[hearty island]

hey i mean it doesn't hurt to talk to people and i understand being a desperate college student

[regal axle]

Best part of having positive conversations with 1 company; you can use that as leverage to help you make moves on other companies (this is related to interviews and stuff)

[hearty island]

exactly. you never know where ppl end up

[regal axle]

That and the effect that when people know others like something, they have more positive feelings about that thing. Humans are just sheep.

[vapid jay]

This is the recommended first year courses for the major, there no math course listed am confused af

[hearty island]

visible confusion my first sem in cs was calc 1 i think

[fringe sphinx]

Are you looking at all four years? That's the recommended courses not the degree requirements

[signal oar]

does degree really matter? i see people who say skills matter most. but i already applied for some web dev job and didnt even get noticed.. all i can do is continue working on my projects and hope i get selected? i am also looking to go for a online degree for the namesake..

[fringe sphinx]

Yes a degree matters. Zero question.

People who say otherwise are influencers selling clicks

[signal oar]

hmm then am going for the online one atleast

[vapid jay]

that was the first year’s and this is the second year

[peak halo]

skills matter most in the long run, but if you're a young person without any professional experience, prospective employers aren't going to be very confident that you have the skills you purport to have if you don't have a degree.

[vapid jay]

They have only given rec courses for first 2 years

[fringe sphinx]

But you also said you aren't in a position to do an in person: no degree doesn't mean failure. It just means a harder path, not a dead end

[peak halo]

And more desireable companies are more likely to have a degree as a hard requirement.

[fringe sphinx]

You're not looking in the right place then.

[signal oar]

yh ok

[signal oar]

yh i have some issues going for the online one for now

[vapid jay]

I searched degree requirements for the major and it showed a long ass list of courses

[deft herald]

What university?

[fringe sphinx]

What university and major?

[signal oar]

i do have one of my cousin in IT field.. maybe i should ask him to give me chance?

[vapid jay]

Northeastern uni- comp sci and business administration combined major

[fringe sphinx]

My guy, northeastern certainly has degree requirements online

[hearty island]

https://catalog.northeastern.edu/undergraduate/computer-information-science/computer-science/bscs/#planofstudytext

does this help?

[fringe sphinx]

That's a plan of study, not the degree requirements

Two different things

[hearty island]

oh. facepalm

[deft herald]

https://catalog.northeastern.edu/undergraduate/computer-information-science/computer-science/bscs/#programrequirementstext

[hearty island]

there we go, it was the other link lol. thanks meltz.

[deft herald]

There's also uni wide requirements

[hearty island]

northeastern uni is a good school, i had a friend from high school who went there actually

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, -this- is what every student needs to know. Forget what the advisors say

[deft herald]

Supporting courses - 2 math listed

[hearty island]

dude i didn't meet my advisor once, i just went w the degree audit

[fringe sphinx]

It's a slightly odd school lately: many freshman go to 'alternate campuses'

[hearty island]

sounds like penn state? i got into the main campus for it i believe

[fringe sphinx]

They accept more than they can handle, I guess assuming attrition is high?

[hearty island]

attrition? like people leaving?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes

[hearty island]

honestly i did so mid in hs that penn state was a reach for me 💀. a fucking party school.

so i was surprised i got in

[vapid jay]

https://catalog.northeastern.edu/undergraduate/computer-information-science/computer-information-science-combined-majors/computer-science-business-administration-bs/#programrequirementstext

[vapid jay]

I’m confused af cause they clarified required business courses but not the required comp sci courses

[vapid jay]

Yeah but only for like 6 months or 1 year then they come to main campus

[vapid jay]

@fringe sphinx u see the link? What do u think

[deft herald]

This lists a lot of CS requirements

[fringe sphinx]

The thing you have to figure out is: the total set of requirements you must fulfill before graduation. That's the only thing that matters.

Everything else is merely a suggestion

[vapid jay]

I know that’s what I’m trying to look for

[deft herald]

That's exactly what this link lists out
#career-advice message

[vapid jay]

Yes but I need to pick only 4 courses should I send the list ?

[deft herald]

That's when you can follow the plan of study

[vapid jay]

Huh

[regal axle]

a quick logistics chat
What do we think this interview is actually going to be about. I have no way of telling if this will be techinical in any way or what

[deft herald]

Doesn't sound like it. Have you already had a technical interview?

[regal axle]

Not yet. And yea, I don't think it will techincal either

[deft herald]

maybe it's about scheduling an onsite

[regal axle]

Normally, but becuase of no technical ,,, i have no idea

Yea I guess this might make sense. I think they might want to cut down the amount of people they spend time on.

We also have a bit of a timing crunch (and a recruiting capacity crunch) on our end
So that would check out.

[livid stirrup]

nah it'll be talking about your past, your motivations, location, visa statements etc

[regal axle]

Lol, that was so short. It was 5 minutes. "We are have offers being rushed. This will only work if you are good to talk with a bunch of people in quick succession." Basically, checking to see if I am open right now to "blitz" interviews. And of course I say yes. So we see how that goes. Weeeeeeeee

[austere swan]

reverse engineering is next future job, what you think ?

[near ocean]

I think not

[austere swan]

why ?

[near ocean]

Reverse engineering is a very niche topic and game hacking is downright illegal

[regal axle]

It is also nothing new and has no real reason to see an explosion. What do you see that we don't

[austere swan]

reverse engineering of our universe is a good job

[regal axle]

I feel like we are talking about 2 very different things right now

[near ocean]

Thats not a sentence that makes sense

[austere swan]

as scientific reseraches are increasing , scientists try to reverse engineer to see how it can be made or it becomes

[near ocean]

No they dont

[austere swan]

i am changing my statement

reverse engineering is future

[smoky quest]

it's not a channel for shitposting

[near ocean]

It is not

[austere swan]

yes

[austere swan]

why / why you keep saying no

machine learning is future , good ?

[near ocean]

@austere swan

Machine learning is definitely more popular than reverse engineering

[white relic]

I like it, it's punchier than the original and you have room to make it more compact still if you need to (for instance, rephrasing the one bullet where "issues" is on a line by its own)
I would want to workshop it a bit more, personally, the experience section reads a bit like a list of technologies which is already what your skills section is, but it's nitpicky and some people would probably disagree.
Best of luck.

[austere swan]

so why most of people are learning reverse engineering for game reverse engineering?

[near ocean]

Bro, hacking games is not a career path

The channel name is career-discussion

[austere swan]

i mean lot of people learning reverse engineering

[true harness]

"most" is probably a product of the people in your immediate circle, not actually most people

[regal axle]

Also another funny thing about the "chat" I just had. He was basically dellaying the technical interview and kinda hinted at just not doing it lol. And I mean fair. If the person you are interviewing sounds competent, you can figure that stuff out without the need for a programming challenge (and you can ask technical questions without a coding challenge). We shall see how that goes.

[near ocean]

I've mostly seen reverse engineering done in the context of cybersec tbh, where is this game hacking obsession coming from

[regal axle]

(very young individual)

[austere swan]

no no

[smoky quest]

nah, always ask to see someone write code

Someone who sounds competent is not necessarily competent

[austere swan]

anyways im seeing embedded development is not growing rapidly , is it not future?

[regal axle]

I don't disagree. It is just interesting to see how this actually goes about. They want to do one. But seem to be also trying to speed along things because most of their top choices have other offers. And so they want to properly give them all a chance. As a consequence, they seem to want to defer the technical test.

[smoky quest]

what's their reason for being in such a rush? Misread your message

[whole flare]

Hacking malware could be though :p

[austere swan]

hacking is another thing

[regal axle]

Another reason is becuase the person spearheading this, is the CEO and not an HR person. So I feel like he slightly inexperienced in the whole process. But like, it has not actually detracted anything from our conversations nor does it suggest any work related issues, to me.

[austere swan]

i know hacking games is childish thing

[regal axle]

It is the way you are writing more than "hacking games"

[fringe sphinx]

I'm missing the thread here, what was the question?

[austere swan]

but hacking and cybersecurity , penetration testing is real things

[twilit portal]

I think robotics could pop off in the future. Embedded is related to that.
Although take everything I say with a grain of salt

[shrewd gull]

Where are u based?

[smoky quest]

There are two sides of that coin. The other side is that, in terms of hiring, the EM should do the hiring solely based on A candidate, regardless of the rest of the pipeline. But as you mentioned, the CEO might be inexperienced

[austere swan]

india

[regal axle]

TLDR no one knows. We have no way of predicting the future. We can guess. But no one knows. Any industry could explode in growth for some unknown reason. And we just don't know

[austere swan]

ok

[shrewd gull]

Embedded is usually in demand only where there is hardware development.

Probably will increase there once the manufacturing shifts to india.

[regal axle]

I think he is mostly doing screening. And then moving them along to the actual team, for the team to give their input / say. It doesn't seem bad.

[austere swan]

hmm

[smoky quest]

It becomes an issue when the hiring decision gets into horse trading and which candidate is better

[regal axle]

Well it sounds like he is willing to hire more people than he originally wanted to for the position. So hopefully that doesn't become an issue. But

[smoky quest]

that would be a great sign! It means he has the budget and willingness to invest!

[regal axle]

2 really should be enough. And that includes the technical. 3 at absolute max.

You prepare? I just show up lol. I never prepare. Maybe that will bite me one day. And I am sure I could be spending my time griding that LC. But ,,, ehhh

Fair. I do at least skim over the company / role. And I did read the whole role posting when I apply (I don't blanket apply)

[smoky quest]

I would say ~4-5 is a good number to get a good view

lol no, that would be unprofessional

it comes down the information you want to extract and skills you want to assess.
You will be working with that person 8h/day every business day. So it's worth spending 4-5h to make sure there is a good fit

based on which experiments?

like you will literally take a chance after talking to someone for 2h?

[true harness]

what's the breakdown? how technical/behavioral? and with whom? always same person or is it varied?

[smoky quest]

depends on the role, level, etc.

[true harness]

what would be an example pipeline for a junior backend dev, and a more senior one

[regal axle]

There are 2 issues with this. A) that assumes that the interviews are 1 hour long. They could be 30 min or more or less.
I would say that this is more true for more junior positions. But the other issue, is that it ignores the fact that people have busy lives. And sometimes are interviewing while working at a different job. Do you want to take up so many hours of their time and then only to reject them at interview 5/7?

[smoky quest]

I don't think you realize yet how professionalized has recruitment become.
You have people thinking through the rubrics, reviewing them, keeping data around which interview questions fail/succeed (thanks ATS!), the diversity of the candidates (thanks ATS!), do retrospectives, adjust the interviews, etc.

[regal axle]

https://www.haskellforall.com/2024/06/my-spiciest-take-on-tech-hiring.html

[harsh river]

why?

[smoky quest]

For A/, have you tried to reflect on the format of interviews? If you spend 5min on intros, 10-15mins talking abour resumes and background and ~5min on interviewee questions, what room does it leave for the actual assessment of skills?
B/ It's a life changing event for the candidate. And it's an opportunity for a huge impact on the team/company. It's your choice if you don't value it though

[smoky quest]

yeah that's just written by a bozo

[regal axle]

For counter A) yes, I agree that doing interviews for shorter time is bad. I am just pointing out that there are lots of people who do non ideal interview processes.
For counter B) some companies reach out to devs and start the whole processes. And so yea, the company is a little more responsible to not then waste that person's time.

[smoky quest]

Definitely!
That's also why I encourage folks to cut off the interview process when the candidate is clearly unfit

[regal axle]

I think the whole take away from all of this, is that there are a lot of people who provide non ideal interviews. And should be more transparent about their own process and what they want. There are many ways to solve some of the problems that exist. Some more right than others. But regardless, there is room for improvement.

[fringe sphinx]

It's uncomfortable when you figure this out in first minute.

[smoky quest]

I take it as a gift

[torpid birch]

oof.
Once a guy that was interviewing me, he was already the team leader, was just mad ranting about how he made everyone go to the office in the pandemic time (Btw it was illegal to go to the office, full lockdown) and was really proud of that. Also he made a lot of comments on how i was dressed for the interview (I was in a Shirt btw, a normal one not suit and tie stuff) and about my beard which he said he did not allow people to have it on the office.

Great interview overall, i rejected.

[smoky quest]

It's the same everywhere and for everything!
Anyone can start their own company. And anyone can apply to any job.

But in terms of hiring professionalization, people take the candidate experience. Good process also makes sure to set expectations with the candidate

[fringe sphinx]

I had one interview where I think/thought the candidate was -very- high.... very intense and wide eyed. And he was closest to door. I was a bit nervous to get through that interview.

[torpid birch]

Was my worst, but i've had some funny ones. A lot of them did bait and switch on the job titles. Usually for network stuff like IT Engineer and in the end it ends up being something related to a commercial department job or something related to costumer talks

[fringe sphinx]

Pro tip: don't go to interview high

[smoky quest]

yeah it can be rough, especially if the interview is on site

[regal axle]

I could tell that when I joined a recent zoom call, the guy was judging my outfit. He was wearing a dress shirt. In his house. ... And I was just wearing a nice t. But he quickly moved past that, becuase he did say positive things about me. So it all worked out in the end.

[torpid birch]

Dude on site interviews were the worst... i always ended up waiting for team leaders or engineers and they would take their time strolling around.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, no matter how outdoorsy you are, don't wear a knife on your belt.

I did end up hiring knife guy tho.

[twilit portal]

But what if I need to slice a list

[true harness]

so 100% of knife carriers were hired...

[faint depot]

Was it a good decision?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes

[torpid birch]

Thanks for the input! I left the skills section in case recruiters are looking for specific stuff and they didn't found them on the text above.

[short ginkgo]

https://github.com/rigvedmaanas/Realtime-System-Monitoring-Solution

Some please tell me how to implement this?

[regal axle]

I actually would love to be tasked with this. (within reason)

[regal axle]

So what I am learning, is that I should show up with a knife in my belt.

[vapid jay]

Does anyone know where i can find people who need help or is willing to let me assist them on a project as i want to learn while helping?

[gritty rivet]

GitHub is full of projects in need of volunteers to close issues: https://github.com/MunGell/awesome-for-beginners

[vapid jay]

Thank you 😭❤️

I’m mostly looking for a group of people to develop a project not to just contribute yk?

[static bone]

speaking about contributions, how significant should an open source contribution be to include it on the resume? Also how many stars does the project need to have? and contributions to documentation are worth mentioning?

[gritty rivet]

Start building what you want to build. Start as small as you need to. Having something interesting to show off will make it a lot easier to find interested people

[gritty rivet]

It really depends on the overall package of your resume, where you are on in your career, how impressive your contributions are, how relevant they are to the jobs you're applying for, and how you spin them....

You can share an anonymized resume screenshot here in the channel for more concrete feedback

[fringe sphinx]

I'll say this in senior engineer: ||it depends||

[static bone]

I dont have a resume yet, im planning to build it this month tho, ill post it when i'll have it 👍

[fringe sphinx]

Meaningful contributions over a long time? That's highly useful. Even bug reports are meaningful. Lots of scattered projects with no consistency or follow up? Less useful

[smoky quest]

It's about the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏
So contributions need to be relevant to the roles you apply to and a contribution doesn't mean anything in itself. So are you trying to demonstrate leadership and communication via sustained participation and leadership? Or demonstrating depth with a significant contribution? Or fixing a bug that was getting in your way?

[radiant vortex]

thx for the tip 🙏

[midnight trench]

Hi

I want to ask about something

[radiant vortex]

ask away

That's called a forum, I'm not sure what servers have access to it

Ah, you have to be a community server if I recall correctly, either way - can you take this to an off-topic chanel please?

[static bone]

Ya well, since i havent worked in the IT field yet, ill probably mention them in my resume somehow, but i guess we will talk about everything when ill come up with my resume, i hope ill do it this week

[smoky quest]

good luck!

[regal axle]

I was right about that one company; they do, do defense contracting. Except no they don't. They want to do defense contracting.

[kindred geyser]

are there any good books on developing and designing Operating Systems ? Im taking an OS class in my third and fourth year of college but my eagerness outpaces my degree program schedule. Is there a one all be all recommendation for learning to build one from the ground up ?

[buoyant seal]

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Linux_From_Scratch
Comments on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxfromscratch/comments/ut28cq/linux_from_scratch_book/
I think u should definitely check this book then.

literally tutorial of building OS from scratches 😎
it was on my radar on some time, but my interests aren't into this stuff this deep

[kindred geyser]

thank you good person

[fallen storm]

making an os using python is insane work

[kindred geyser]

i would probably do it in C or C++ if i was guessing

[fallen storm]

ye

you like python or c++?

[kindred geyser]

i like c++

[fallen storm]

you made any projects with python

[kindred geyser]

i havent everything ive done has been in c++ so at best i could re-iterate with "its inconclusive for me to say which one i like the best"

[fervent folio]

yo

[hearty island]

how can i help my friend with this resume

[true harness]

give a template

[hearty island]

i gave them jake's resume and mine as a reference, hopefully that's good enough

[livid stirrup]

needs a short personal description

his cv is also completely irrelevant in places, i’m not sure if it’s a riff on the forklift certfied joke but when an employer sees that at the top of his resume they’re going to assume it’s a joke application.

[sleek charm]

Agreed, that resume needs serious upgrading

[hearty island]

I agree

[sleek charm]

One thing is the formatting, looks like zero effort went into it, like @livid stirrup mentioned there is a bunch of irrelevant info, like idk man it looks more like an insult to the company he's applying to

Feeding and maintaining horses, what is he applying for??

[livid stirrup]

formatting is fine. employers don’t care about fancy formatting. they care about the information though.
Forklift certified is wasted space, as is half of the volunteer work section. Incorporate the misc section into a small personal synopsis and put it at the top of his CV after his personal info, then past experience, with the volunteer section within that, and then his qualifications.

[sleek charm]

No that formatting is just seriously poor, it reflects on your effort

It doesn't need to be fancy

[livid stirrup]

i got my job with black and white text documents very similar to that. there’s nothing wrong with the lack of colour or fancy fonts.

“shipped orders in the clothing industry” -> “Co-ordinated logistics for fulfilling orders while inspecting quality.”

get rid of the security work experience. pointless and sells him as a common thug in the first 2 lines of his cv which is all employers read.

[sleek charm]

Recruiters listening to why he put feeding and taking care of horses on his application to a programming role

[livid stirrup]

volunteer work is endearing but if it’s more than 5 years since you last did it then it shouldn’t be there

[sleek charm]

" A common thug" 😭🫲

[livid stirrup]

🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

i don’t advocate for that joke

[hearty island]

<@&831776746206265384>, bullying

[sleek charm]

"Bullying is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate"

[hearty island]

I think he just needs jake’s resume and should focus on logistical stuff

[sleek charm]

Self-removed btw

[austere swan]

Because it has no scope

It is only for fun

[brittle pendant]

bro why is it so sparse...it reads like someone who begrudgingly wrote a resume

he needs to sell himself a lot better for instance
Wounded Warrior Project T shirt Drive

• he did this for two years there must have been something more meaningful to say than "helped sell t shirts". "assisted veterans" yes but in what capacity

[hearty island]

yea I tried to help but he won’t really listen, so

[brittle pendant]

“shipped orders in the clothing industry” -> “Co-ordinated logistics for fulfilling orders while inspecting quality.”
good example

[brittle pendant]

thats a shame youre a good friend at least

[hearty island]

thank you, I always try to help out

[brittle pendant]

Hey I work in cyber so,
Comptia provide an objectives list so make sure you download that and highlight terms as you come across them. One colour for exposure another for good understanding. Basically if you want to commit something to long term memory you’re better off employing methods of active recall rather than passive. Active consists of things like flashcards, mock exams/quizzes, taking notes which ask questions so that you will be forced to recall the information. There are plenty of prac exams for comptia I would just hammer those out find your strengths weaknesses revise and repeat

[brittle pendant]

I would advise her to get a comptia a+ cert and land a level 1 help desk role as soon as possible. Breaking into infosec is hard even for college grads. what most do is work help desk for 6 months/a year then hopefully transition. however this is becoming increasingly difficult bc of how flooded the job market is. She needs to take full advantage of her colleges internship and work placement opportunities to distinguish herself upon graduation. Tell her to make a linkedin and start networking with classmates faculty too/attend events etc. Having a face to a name does a lot when you are in an industry that is inherently distrusting. put her in the mindset that there will be hundreds sometimes thousands of applicants for entry level roles and she needs to make sure that she will be an asset to that company and not rely on the recruiter ‘giving her a chance’

[hearty island]

Yep I had the same problem breaking into finance. And I didn’t even have a finance degree so

but she’s got a good shot I believe. Goes to a nice school, she has to play her cards right

[torpid birch]

Would RHCSA be a good option if i want to go the Sysadmin/DevOps route? Or would there be a better cert for that?

Looks like an option too 😄

Got to do some more personal stuff instead of focusing only on work stuff

I see, thx for the tips

[smoky quest]

The order will depend on the role and experience. But for their case, that's probably the right one

[torpid birch]

I will take note and research.
One of the things i see being asked a lot is cloud knowledge, more AWS but some azure too.
I've been declined because i never interacted with one of those

damn i see 😄
have to give that a try, they are pretty tight on my company, expecially with budgets, can't really use cloud services that much unless they are owned by them

[smoky quest]

all the cloud providers have a free tier and free credits
And you can learn a lot by spending 100$ on them anyway. So worth the investment.

[torpid birch]

Even for work stuff? Forgot the name in english

[smoky quest]

not for work stuff. I mean you could, but they are tailored for personal usage

[torpid birch]

Oh ok i see, but if they have free trials i may give them a go

On first buy maybe?

[smoky quest]

AWS it's for the first year and GCP it's forever

[torpid birch]

ok i see, was just searching for that

Alright, thanks for the tips and helps.
I will need to check that AWS stuff better because i think it's something that is missing on my CV and knowledge base and is holding me back from a lot of potential jobs.

I will still check the other stuff like better and proper CI/CD, orchestration, etc

Need to get some work done for now, my time has come

[pseudo canyon]

Could you get accepted into internships during your final year at uni is the chances of getting accepted lower? Any point? Etc

[livid stirrup]

someone i work with is in his final year at uni next year. just have a go and apply

[hearty island]

Yep jake’s resume should help with this if he decides to use is it

[hearty island]

hello there, i got into internships my freshman year. textron i believe, lol.

i'd have 8 internships if i did mine at UHG and Textron as well 💀

[pseudo canyon]

Talking about final year broo

[hearty island]

ah. sorry it's like 5 AM here, i misread. it's not lower, necessarily.

[pseudo canyon]

Nw

[hearty island]

the thing is if you're in senior year, you should be going for fte roles really

[pseudo canyon]

Yeah of course but I heard some people do both as in they do the internships then start the grad role

I believe I even heard they do both... Not sure how that works

[hearty island]

well in my case, i did 6 internships, with my final 6th one being a senior year internship, and then i got an FTE offer during the internship bc i was interviewing all over the place.

[pseudo canyon]

Senior year being your final year?

[hearty island]

correct

ty man 🙂

it took 4000 applications, 30 interviews, and in the end i got like 2 offers. potentially 3 if Nomura works out too

i agree. that being said i tried to break into the finance industry without a finance degree so i'm sure you can imagine

i started applying ever since july of 2023, in all reality.

[hearty island]

this was the game-winning resume, the one that got me the first FTE offer.

i heavily tune my resume to the job description, so if this sounds like a job description that's why

yea man i would say i brute-forced it.

that's correct! graduated from hofstra as of may 19th 🙂

lisan, we can connect on linkedin if you'd like

dude they were fr, they were like how are you getting these callbacks while you're in college. i had some huge companies call me, from pfizer to the public sector.

sent it over.

you have to understand i was doing my best in a rough market. preparation is for the best.

in terms of a job search, the scope for a job search with respect to time only grows wider for new grads every year

it gets harder and harder really

that is why i help people on here. or do my best. i am also active on r/FC. and i help my fellow peers too.

r/financial careers has to be one of the biggest reasons i got the job

my office is 5 minutes away, so yea. i can always come in and say hi

[fringe sphinx]

You're remote to a job that's 5 min away? Wow.

[hearty island]

yea dude the offer's insanely good to pass up. the hard work eventually paid off. all of it 🙂

wouldn't have happened without this server's help too.

[hearty island]

rockefeller just was so close, but they picked the right candidate imo. finance and IT, risk analytics internship. i sent him a linkedin request and was like hey, i was the other guy for this role. you did a fantastic job, you deserve it.

[fringe sphinx]

It's customary to pay us in lemons.

[hearty island]

you guys introduced me to resume writing and all that in the first place

dude you're literally paul atreides. you got this. actually not a good example bc he had a ||huge downfall||

hahahahaha, could've done some more research on that fs

this was the first resume that got me an internship at UHG, which i just didn't do due to some issues. very scrappy one tbh.

you can see it's rather poorly structured. no metrics.

not interesting projects

yea you can sense the potential ig?

i actually removed my projects section in a future iteration, so i could fully add my roles

plus i stopped going for dev roles.

decided to pivot

meh that internship was like spreadsheets, no ML. ML made their knees shake.

they were like we have to have this kid

and i don't do ML anymore really. i'm not into the math side of it and the math side is... pardon my pun integral

yea man. my dad was like fuck it damian, you have to try something else. a phD is not the right move for you man, but analytics is ok

yeppers. nowadays you need at least a masters or PhD for ML stuff (imo). it defo makes it easier.

unless you're an exceptional candidate, like you.

ah, ok.

i am here to support you. keep up the good work 👑

don't do that. stop doing that to yourself. you live in the past, you'll never make decisions in the present.

don't fall in love w them either tho. i've made that mistake at points too.

that's my boyyyy, there ya go then!!

never get attached to a process. it's a process for a reason

what's that saying? don't put all your eggs in one basket?

right. fine line tho.

i wanted to point a resource your way too. you ever heard of hiration?

automatically generates like 6 interview questions given a job desc

ah same, but this one generates like concise questions. my normal gpt is a bit too... verbose?

info hallucination right

something like that

[cunning grotto]

hello

[hearty island]

that is why when people use it for their resumes it's no bueno. i mean you can, but you have to carefully read it and be like uhhh can i back this up? can i somehow use some transferable skill?

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/amy-gif-6958642489115739715

[cunning grotto]

I have a simple question about english

[hearty island]

shoot, what's up?

[cunning grotto]

um my english teacher said

you have to use "an" with special words like school or hospital

[hearty island]

you're in the #career-advice too btw, idk how relevant this is tho. oh. yea uh i suck at grammar 💀

[cunning grotto]

💀

[hearty island]

https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/grammar/using_articles.html

[cunning grotto]

🌹

[hearty island]

yw 🙂

[cunning grotto]

I read it but i still think my teacher is wrong

Why should i use "an" with school word?

[hearty island]

please ask in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval, #ot1-perplexing-regexing , or #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare . all good channels for that discussion

[cunning grotto]

ok

[hearty island]

would you advise her to go for IT-related stuff?

[gaunt rain]

guys
idk if its right to ask this in this server, but
which language has more demand for s/w development rn? java or python?

[gritty rivet]

As opposed to what, SWE? The bar for entry into general IT support is a lot lower, and it's at least as relevant to many cybersec roles of not more so. But if she's getting a CS degree, then I would skip the A+.

In any case, she should be talking directly with people who are doing the work she wants to be doing.

[hearty island]

right. i asked her to talk to a friend of mine who did his bachelors/masters in Cybersec

[gritty rivet]

Having a look at your local job listings is a good way to gauge that.

But the best answer is both. People rarely get hired just because they know one language versus another

[brittle pendant]

you mean the internships? yea related to whatever job she hopes to land after graduating

[hearty island]

no a fte role

[brittle pendant]

well yea anything so long as its related to where she wants to end up

[brittle pendant]

yea this is good or browsing someones linkedin who has a role she would like and seeing their qualifications

Having a look at your local job listings is a good way to gauge that.
whoops i thought that was for damian but this applies for her as well

[hearty island]

She’s also limited to Boston. I told her that she’s young and she could relocate but she was like nah fam

[slender copper]

looking for a good book to study the comptia a+ exam

ive seen the "Mike Meyers' CompTIA A+ Guide to Managing and Troubleshooting PCs Lab Manual, Seventh Edition (Exams 220-1101 & 220-1102) (The Mike Meyers' Certification Passports)". But im not sure if this is what im looking for since ive seen once called "The all in one" and this is a specific one

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, his All-In-One book is a good one. ISBN 9781264610150

[mighty stratus]

What are the best country choices I can make to study abroad as an Indian studying Commere + IP?
I am genuinely concerned with my research skills, (I suck)

[vapid jay]

guys pls how to get custometkinter

[whole flare]

It is probably worth while for her to get the Sec+ cert

[hearty island]

she should join a cybersec server. would anyone be able to recommend one?

[whole flare]

err..

[hearty island]

i mean a discord server

[whole flare]

I'm not sure if it'll be considered advertising, so I'll DM you it

[hearty island]

word, ty man

[fringe sphinx]

** In a question like this, I don't think it's considered advertising... although if it's not whitelisted, it'll just get blocked. but, if it's legit, it's worth us seeing if it should be unblocked.

[whole flare]

Sure, do you want me to DM ModMail?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, plz, that'll create a thread around it.

[whole flare]

👍

[gritty rivet]

I would say she should be looking more advanced. That cert is good foundational knowledge for anyone touching technology, but for someone looking to focus on security primarily, that's just a warm-up and best and probably worth skipping unless it's a hard requirement (as it is for many US government jobs)

[whole flare]

By more advanced I assume you mean stuff like GIAC/SANS certs?

[gritty rivet]

Sure, but I think at least some of those require X years of formal experience. ConpTIA has CySA+ and PenTest+ but for pentesting CEH seems more popular

[whole flare]

CEH

I'm not sure that is uhh.. well regarded in the industry anymore.

CySA+ is a good suggestion. Although if they have no prior exp with CyberSec, the Sec+ may help.

[timber nebula]

guys do you know where to find internships in europe? is there a site or should i just check company sites

[hearty island]

LinkedIn would be a good idea, hop to company sites from there

I got my most recent job from LinkedIn

[gritty rivet]

I'm not in Europe but Handshake may be worth a look

[brazen island]

Define internship. Is it a paid summer job or something you want to do for free to get experience?

I'm asking because many things that are called "internships" in the US wouldn't be called internships here + the strategy to land them is different.

[hearty island]

good question ^

[peak halo]

programming-related internships in the US are paid. (and if they aren't paid, they're probably a waste of time for all involved.)

[brazen island]

Yup, most here are unpaid, if it's paid they'd call it a "summer job" or "part time job". I did like 3 unpaid ones myself and they aren't bad at all imo, but that's a different discussion altogether

[peak halo]

what? europe has legitimized unpaid labor?? right in front of my salad???

[brazen island]

I think the EU wants to outlaw it though

[peak halo]

oh good
I'm willing to offer up the US for EU annexation

[brazen island]

Realistically the first one I did was in data engineering. I knew absolutely 0 SQL or Python. The focus isn't labour, but actually teaching you stuff. By the end of it (~12 weeks) I was pretty great at both. I got the ability to work on interesting problems, poke at the brains of Sr. Engineers and they still contact me from time to time for solid job opportunities

[peak halo]

Wrong channel; see #❓｜how-to-get-help

@dusty wedge please stop posing code in this channel. please read #❓｜how-to-get-help

[radiant vortex]

CEH is a meme and only really well regarded in India, would definitely not recommend in general

[kindred oyster]

this is not a hiring board <@&831776746206265384>

[hollow coral]

I am not hiring, I want some one who want just contribute, it is not open position vacancy. Anyway thanks for your info

[fringe sphinx]

We appreciate the sentiment. We just don't allow recruiting/etc. See the channel description.

[true harness]

why well regarded in India only?

[kindred oyster]

people are very less likely to do it for free unless you are making something that affects their day to day life and they want it really badly or they are genuinly passionate about it

call it contributing or hiring , its basically doing full time work for no pay

[radiant vortex]

Specifically for India I'm not sure, they just seem to like it a lot and have it advertising in their job postings - as for why it's seen as a meme and not well regarded anywhere else, here are some links https://attrition.org/errata/charlatan/ec-council/
tl;dr plagiarism of content, sexism, been hacked multiple times. The course content is also fairly old and is purely multiple choice - feel free to ask in any of the cyber communities like THM, HTB, TCM if you want more details...as an example of it being bad, my old pentesting firm literally laughs at it (we're UK based)

[brittle pendant]

bro could u cc me as well ive been trying to find a good one

[radiant vortex]

is it completely useless? no, of course not. would anybody recommend it? in most situations, absolutely not

[brittle pendant]

i am in australia so cant speak on that tbh !

[hybrid sage]

You did an internship for data engineering? How was it? Did it help?

[brittle pendant]

this is going to be worded horribly but is there a consensus on the 'best' SANS certs? i know this is highly dependant on the role so probs a dumb question but just curious

[peak halo]

This server isn't a place to troll.

[vapid jay]

alr bro I'm sorry

i deleted it

[whole flare]

I think it generally depends on the role you're targeting i.e. Malware Analysts would tend to opt for GREM. So no, there is no 'best' SANS cert. But I haven't completed any of them so it's best to ask SANS shill @vital wyvern

[brittle pendant]

thanks ill try and catch him and ask at some point

[whole flare]

👍

[brittle pendant]

and um could you invite me to that cybersec server

SEC***

why tf are those letters so close sorry

[whole flare]

sure

[vital wyvern]

GCIH, GCFA, GCIA; but like Fish said, it's domain specific. Not getting DFIR certs from SANS... probably a waste of money.

[brittle pendant]

nice thanks noted and did you study online? im in aus and that may be my only choice

[neon rapids]

hello!

[brittle pendant]

hi and also this is career discussion

[vital wyvern]

Yes.

[brittle pendant]

any issues? i had a bad time with my previous online cert but i imagine SANS has their shit together

[vital wyvern]

None so far.

[paper creek]

Hello guys I hope you are doing well, I'm in the Army and recently, I have sparked an interest in coding. I was wondering if you guys could help me guide me in the right ddirection to start learning how to code. I have seen several videos but they are not much of help.

[gritty rivet]

!resources

Most people who code professionally have four year degrees in CS, so naturally watching a few videos won't get you from zero to hero.

The Harvard CS50 courses are a good general overview and free.

For Python specifically here's a huge list of other resources you might check out. Find what ever grabs you and keep at it day after day

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[misty zenith]

both Python for beginners from Microsoft and PCAP: Programming Essentials in Python from Cisco academy offer free Python Courses to get started, very easy and well done. Then you can decide which area to progress further in Python : Office automation, Data Center automation, Network automation, Sales reports automation, AI, ML, Games, Encryption, Data processing, Python and Raspberry pi electronics. I also have done some training via discord with Python. You can also do * Automation of Administrative Tasks

• Data Analysis and Visualization
  Simulation and Modeling
  Cybersecurity and Network Defense
  Logistics and Supply Chain Management
  Command and Control Systems
  Training and Education The great thing about python is there are may libraries which make what would be complex coding, very much simpler.

[brazen island]

It did massively, it made me be ahead of my peers + also helped me land paid part time jobs as a student

[twilit portal]

So were you already in the process of getting a degree while applying for the internship? Do they only take in college students for those kinds of internships?

[brittle pendant]

thanks i appreciate your advice

[brittle pendant]

i found this interactive python course from the university of helsinki really intuitive since it provides a lot of feedback if you mess up, and also there is a discord with faculty and other learners who can help !!
https://programming-24.mooc.fi/

[brittle pendant]

i was surpised to not find it here tbh

[frozen jetty]

you can open an issue to add it as a resource: https://github.com/python-discord/meta/issues/new?assignees=&labels=area%3A+resources&projects=&template=resource-request.yaml

[brittle pendant]

nice thanks ill do that

[near remnant]

I'm learning to drive and the car that I've been learning on broke down and my driving test is tomorrow. My instructor told me that I can take the exam in another car, same brand same type (Toyota Yaris) but a new generation, with many changes. Or I can reschedule the test for 2-3 weeks from now. What do you guys think?

[near ocean]

I think thats not careers related

[near remnant]

oh yeah, wrong channel, where should i post it

[brittle pendant]

#driving-test-troubleshooting

but na probs ot

[cerulean basin]

i added this in my resume, can anyone suggest me improvements in it.
thanks in advance

[low mirage]

does anybody wanna work on a job for free, i can pay tbh if it works but its just a fun idea that might be a security flaw

[peak halo]

You can't offer jobs in this server.

[low mirage]

its more or less ment as a fun thing u can do, and its #career-advice so if it would be a security flaw it would be good to have on a resume if u consider doing it as a job

[peak halo]

You can't recruit for it here. Please don't ask again.

[fringe sphinx]

What's your mos?

[low mirage]

then where do i ask for anybody that can help? there isnt a channel
And again im not meaing to recruit, its a fun project u can work on

[peak halo]

Not on this server.

[low mirage]

Understandable, wont ask again :)

[vague forge]

lhmmm

[regal axle]

Ok, well the blitz interview thing is now me just have 2 interview tomorrow. One 30 minutes and one for an hour. We shall see how that all goes.
It ends up meaning I have 3 interview tomorrow. I swear, if someone else decides to hop on and give me a fourth one ... well I wouldn't be upset, becuase that means I am moving forward with things. And that is cool. But ...

[gritty rivet]

Interview logistics are such a pain, especially if you're working full time

[regal axle]

Luckily I am self employed. I get to move things around as I need! If not for that, yea, this would be tuff

[subtle matrix]

hi, how can i start learning python?

[pine sleet]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[formal bison]

what are some good computer programming EC's for applying to university in America

[hexed umbra]

Does anyone have any tips/suggestions for going into Python backend? I'm going to be a junior in college and right now I only know Flask, Html/CSS, Sqlite, SQLAlchemy, and basic API calls. I'm not sure if this the best channel/place to ask for advice though, so sorry for the intrusion if that's the case.

[pine sleet]

work on some projects

[gritty rivet]

I agree that projects are key

SQLite is great but you'll want to get your hands on a grown-up DB like Postgres or MySQL

Maybe this is useful: roadmap.sh/backend and some of the others on there like the Python one

[gritty rivet]

EC?

[hexed umbra]

hey, yeah I have about 3 projects with databases and flask as well as webscraping and pygame, but im not sure what other topics to approach for backend? any other languages that work well with python? i have some mini programs i did for fun with the NASA api and also TextBlob

[hexed umbra]

thanks, i checked out the site and it had some cool ideas

[smoky quest]

If you are going into college then focus on the fundamentals.
That means DSAs and algo focused topics:

• Data structures like red black tree or AVLs, how to implement hash maps, etc.
• Graph datastructures and algorithms
• Compression related algorithms
• Cryptographic algorithms
• Making your own programming language

[hexed umbra]

oh alright thanks ill brush up on them

[iron oasis]

At what point should I start grinding leetcode?

[fringe sphinx]

Grinding is a terrible strategy for learning anything. But doing some problems spread out over multiple years of college studies? Good.

[iron oasis]

Is there a roadmap to follow for? I know leetcode kinda just throws you in it

[fringe sphinx]

The real roadmap is: it depends. There's no one size fits all answer: depends on you, your education, your experience, your interests, what you've already done, etc

Tell us about yourself and what you want to do, and maybe we can provide more useful answer tho

[smoky quest]

It's called a book on DSA.
For instance https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262046305/introduction-to-algorithms/ is an awesome book

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, was the question about learning DSA or just a general roadmap?

[smoky quest]

sounded to me like a question about how to get good at leetcode

whether getting good at leetcode is the right objective for them, that's a different question I can't answer

[fathom flare]

Data science, computer science and IT security : Which degree would be the most effective/ flexible?

[smoky quest]

define effective and flexible?

[fathom flare]

Well as much as I’ve tried I still can’t really decide which field I should go in between the 3 that I mentioned above. I want a degree that would be useful if I’m trying to get a job in any of the 3

[smoky quest]

you would get jobs in any of these three degrees.
Then it depends on your personal preferences.

data science and computer science are closer to each other than IT though

Also IT is more about maintaining the network of a specific company while data/computer science are more about building new software

[fathom flare]

I see, thanks! That helps narrow it down a bit. I don’t think I was suited for cybersecurity anyways. Keeping up with the new laws and regulations while constantly being on high pressure sounds too difficult for me

I guess I’ll have to decide between data science or computer science

[smoky quest]

cybersecurity is like saying "healthcare".
It regroups many different skills and roles

you can be a sales person working in cybersecurity or even a marketing person. Or even someone writing code or an analyst analyzing networks, or a pentester, or etc.

You also have plenty of data science people working in cyber security or computer science people

[fathom flare]

So the 3 degrees are almost identical in a way? I heard computer science focuses more on software development though

[smoky quest]

they aren't identical. What would make them identical?

[fathom flare]

My bad, I’ll go do more research

I thought that if you were able to understand how to program or understand code in general most of the jobs in IT would be open to you 😭

[smoky quest]

CS degrees are indeed the most generics

Note that at the college level and beyond, things aren't as black and white as when in high school.

[fathom flare]

What do you mean by that ?

[fringe sphinx]

'Jobs in IT' is also a different than 'jobs in software engineering': depends on your definitions, but I consider software engineer separate from 'IT'

[smoky quest]

Things are far less defined and far more open ended. The metric to success isn't about passing a specific exam with well defined topics anymore

[fathom flare]

Well now I feel even more confused on what to pick 😭

[hearty island]

aaaaaaand this is why i pivoted to finance, which is my passion ig

[smoky quest]

that's great!
It means it's a good time to do more research and ask more questions and talk to people in the field

[hearty island]

i'm looking for a man in finance. 6'5, trust fund, blue eyes.

[smoky quest]

it's better to be confused now and do the research than to yolo it in one path that you end up hating and wished you knew about

[fathom flare]

I gotta do a project on what career to pick though so I can’t really take too long. I have like 2 weeks

I’ve been practicing C++ and python on my free time because I heard this field is so competitive

I wish there was more I could do though

[hearty island]

why do you have "2 weeks"? what timeline is that?

[smoky quest]

typically, IT people won't do a lot of python/c++ in their jobs

[fathom flare]

That’s the due date for the project

[fathom flare]

What do they do than 😭

[hearty island]

oh i didn't read the entire chat history, sorry

[smoky quest]

think about like setting up the wifi and laptops for your home and stuff like that. Now they do that for a whole company

[hearty island]

why are you pika reacting @true harness

[fathom flare]

Oh I heard about that, sounds kinda miserable. They help people on the most menial tasks that takes like 1 minute. I honestly enjoy code . I wanna do something meaningful. Atleast let my work have an impact and be useful

[smoky quest]

some people enjoy it

There are all sorts of people enjoying all sorts of things

[fringe sphinx]

Tbf, many IT systems are much more complex than that. Crm, supply chain systems, finance systems, hr, etc. there's a lot of systems and business functions run by IT

[iron oasis]

The IT department at my college seems very boring. A lot of time they reimaging computers or adding software

[hearty island]

for example, my work is currently wrestling with service now and workday and wrangling data. shit i pinged the wrong person.

i'm using PQ for this bc my team isn't very technical

[fringe sphinx]

That's desktop support; Which is an IT function, but not the only one. Someone has run manage the bursars systems, the scheduling systems, etc

[iron oasis]

Yeah, we have another team that deals with the actual software and data. But they don't seem to be really good at it as there is always something broken.

[fringe sphinx]

Job security 😆

[iron oasis]

My goal is to code good enough to not be fired but bad enough so no one can replace me

[hearty island]

dude how do i tell my friend that she needs metrics on her resume? she won't listen

she wants to break into IB, but won't put any numbers on her resume

recruiters love metrics

[fathom flare]

I mean sure but my uncle works at IT and he looks depressed asf 😭 uhmmm I think at this rate I might pick a data science degree . It seems fun ? But software development also looks interesting. Kfkdjebshrksbahekahsdodhdjshh hhhh s

[hearty island]

do you like math? it is a lot of stats and calc. math applications.

[smoky quest]

try things out. All the software is free

[hearty island]

what recursive said ^

[undone glacier]

Say I really like python but I'm not sure yet in what area I wanna specialize (quant, CV, AIML, BI analytics) what is a generalist position that will allow me to cover everything?

[fathom flare]

Of course I like math. I took math club, advanced math, and the normal math class

[hearty island]

okie 👍, just making sure lol

[smoky quest]

look at the intersection of skills.
And a CS degree would enable you to cover them all

[hearty island]

the minute you read AIML as anti money laundering (AML) you know you've gone full business major

[fathom flare]

Should I continue studying c++ or python ?

Like which of them should I study FIRST

[smoky quest]

At your stage:

• Keep up the good grades so you can get into the college of your choice
• Have fun and build things. Discover what's out there

[fathom flare]

Okay thanks!

[hearty island]

recursive, how do i have a convo about leaving with my boss?

he's gonna be so sad

[undone glacier]

I'm a 'career switcher' 😔 a 4 year degree is not really an option for me at the juncture

What other internships can I consider

[hearty island]

i got a feeling he'll understand though, there wasn't really a budget to convert

[smoky quest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChbaCxpB5ck

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-huh-cat-huh-etr-gif-15332443943609734737

[smoky quest]

First prepare for it:

• That means back up the stuff you care about or would need like paystubs and other info. Assume your all your access could get cut off any time
• Remove any personal files from your work devices
• Make sure your stuff is documented so there are no holes.
• Make sure you don't have super important deliveries scheduled
• Similarly, have a plan in mind about how to transition everything off of you
• Prepare your mind as it can be a loaded conversation and everything will zoom by with HR reaching out and the word traveling around
• Make sure you already have prepared your buffer for the notice. For instance, whether or not you are scheduling a week off in between the jobs or how much time you want in between for the notice or if they ask you to help a bit longer
• Make sure any paperwork like visas are sorted out

D-Day:

• Do it in a 101
• Be super generous and nice. But stay firm if they try to negotiate or appeal to emotions
• Afterwards go for a walk and take a deep breadth

[hearty island]

ty dude i really appreciate it. will play this by ear.

[smoky quest]

Internships are for students to help them discover the world of the enterprise. So you would have a harder time.

You could look for bootcamps or jobs targeting self taught people

[smoky quest]

is it going to be your first?

[hearty island]

first fte job? or first time leaving an employer? i've done it before but it never ends as smoothly as i'd like.

[smoky quest]

first time leaving an employer

[hearty island]

no, i've done it multiple times. they still write me solid references though.

[smoky quest]

ah nice!

[hearty island]

so i should be good then. at least i believe so.

[smoky quest]

preparation is key. But yeah

[hearty island]

my primary issue has been the budget, tbh. my performance has been excellent. i've gone past roadblocks and stuff like that

[smoky quest]

oh yeah, make sure you come up with a story that does not leave them open to counter or negotiate. It makes things easier if they can't raise objections

[hearty island]

i've never left without a counter offer 😦. even if they did give me a counter offer, that ain't it chief.

[smoky quest]

I don't waste people time coming up with a counter if my mind is set.

Plus the sooner they accept it, the sooner we can focus on the transition

[inner hemlock]

I passed my first phase of interviews this week!

[hearty island]

Exactly

[bleak oxide]

can you remove your conversation in a caht group as a whole?

like is there a command for it?

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

[vale pine]

Sorry. Thank you for letting me know

[hearty island]

np!

[wraith blade]

theres alot of resources online can anyone kindly give me roadmap to becoming a ml dev thanks in advance

[fringe sphinx]

Roadmaps start with where you're at. Where are you?

[wraith blade]

I have understanding of fundemental python and mastery over a few data visualization and organization libraries such as Pandas and numpy

[fringe sphinx]

Degree? In Uni?

[wraith blade]

no highschooler

[hearty island]

wdym by "mastery"

[wraith blade]

i know ever nook and cranny

i can touch it places where sun dont shine

touch it real good @hearty island

[inner hemlock]

I've got my final interviews with OpenAI on Monday, I'm real nervous

[wraith blade]

congrats gang

[brittle pendant]

Damn that’s exciting hoping for the best for you