career-advice

[regal axle]

Yea; I think you agree with the initial argument. But disagree over things like "the type of person" who doesn't get a degree. If you look at the raw numbers and statistics, I guess you are right. But that isn't a real look into if someone should get a degree. And there are real reasons to suggest someone doesn't get a degree

[acoustic robin]

yeah, my initial message of this discussion indicated that a degree will make it much easier to get into the field compared to not having one.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, it's a difficult line to balance in this channel: some people ask about degrees because they're trying to justify purposefully not pursuing something that they have an option to do, whereas others don't have the privilege and are looking for guidance on how to navigate.

[smoky quest]

life happens and sure, some people won't be able to get a degree. But that does not mean it's consequence free. Life is unfair

btw, same things happen in countries where degrees are free. There will always be an accident, a depression, loss of a parent or something that make someone drop out

that does not make a valid alternate equivalent path

[regal axle]

I don't really think anyone is disagreeing about this part. It is more so that bringing it up as a core part of the discussion is leading this discussion in strange directions

[fringe sphinx]

I guess my point is just: some people suggest that no degree is equivalent to degree, often based on what they've heard from social media/etc. but perhaps there's 4 different versions of this conversation happening right now, and we'll all talking past each other 🙂

[acoustic robin]

I never suggested that it's an equivalent path. I said it's a harder but still viable path.

[balmy spade]

I don't think that's been said here though. The point that the degree path opens more doors has been supported completely. Even I support it and I took the other, alternative, path.

[smoky quest]

It's not part of the core discussion. But that's parts of valid reasons where people cannot get a degree

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I jumped in specific to the salary / 5 yr xp point. My main point is this job market is very diff than 5 yrs ago.

[balmy spade]

Quite different. Can't wait to see how different it is in 2030.

[acoustic robin]

yeah, the job market's always had it's ups and downs.

[smoky quest]

Covid did skew quite a bit the numbers

and social media went ham into the swe lifestyle

[balmy spade]

I fully stand behind pushing for that degree. Have the chance? Go get it. Don't feel like it but still have the choice? Go get it. Really dislike school, struggle in the system, but still have the chance? Go get it.

I get defensive when it's hinted that not having a degree is a failure of the negative implication.

[wheat hatch]

There were indications we were heading into a recession before covid, covid sped it up and made it worse

[smoky quest]

nuance is everything

[balmy spade]

I agree.

[smoky quest]

It's not a failure, but folks can't complain they don't get the same opportunities and compensation. Different paths lead to different outcome.

[balmy spade]

I mean, they can complain and do they! But our current system is setup in a pattern. Play against the pattern, the results are absolutely going to be different.

[regal axle]

Anyways, back to general career advice;

I feel a bit lost in where I actually fit in, in the bigger pond. I have been top of my circle. But my circle is small. So I want to go start working for bigger companies for a little. But I have no idea what level of position I fit in. I have been doing my own thing. So I have experience. But it isn't the prescribed path that is somewhat, sometimes expected. As in, I am neither a junior nor a senior. This doesn't help that I have never had the opportunity to dive deep into one specialty.

I am sure that it will be somewhat vibes based, based on the position itself. But I want to have proper expectations and not end up disappointed becuase my expectations are too high.

So as someone with ~2 years of independent professional experience, where do I even fit in?

[smoky quest]

lol fair

[smoky quest]

what do you mean by "doing my own thing"?

or the ~2 years of independent professional experience ?

[regal axle]

Started a tiny business. Failed. Sold out.
Did some contained projects for other companies. So freelancing type stuff

[smoky quest]

are these things that other companies would need from an employee?

[regal axle]

We have problem X.
I can write program to solve X

[smoky quest]

That highly depend on the domain

[acoustic robin]

If people were paying you to do it as a freelancer, there are companies that will pay you to do it as an employee. But can't offer much more than that based on the details given.

[regal axle]

Right. Hence my feeling of being lost. Every project has been fairly disjoint. There isn't a lot that puts them all together. So I don't have a ton of experience in one path over another.

[smoky quest]

it still goes back to the outcome vs the means to reach it.
People hire engineers to automate testing, to automate the deployment and maintenance of applications, etc.

Just writing tools in isolation is something they will avoid as they would consider the maintenance cost

[regal axle]

This isn't a question of "can I find a job." But rather, will I be able to find one that I feel matches my abilities. I don't want to be looking in the "new grad" / "entry level" becuase I don't belive myself to be. And I feel like I can well prove that. But I also don't think myself that advanced or ahead. But becuase my pond has been so small, I have 0 way to actually gauge where I sit. I don't have people to talk to about this type of thing.

[fringe sphinx]

2 years is such a weird window... at the right place, they'd recognize you and your ability, but most people would see your YOE and place you in a bucket

[balmy spade]

At risk of sounding crass, you fit exactly where you stand. Feeling slightly out of place, out of depth, or lacking knowledge is almost a baseline for me. It tells me I'm doing something right. That I'm still learning, exploring, and curious enough to find myself right back in that slightly comfortable place.

This doesn't help that I have never had the opportunity to dive deep into one specialty.

Find something that interests you or just throw a dart at the technology stacks and go diving. Side-projects. Build things that don't work so you learn how to build things that sort-of work. The job is demanding. We often don't get to deep dive before the next task comes up. Side-projects are where we can play, explore, and learn.

[fringe sphinx]

I think you'll likely have to roll the dice: the right place/manager/team where you can be impactful and you'd thrive.

[regal axle]

yea ~_~

[acoustic robin]

yeah, my ideal job is one where a significant fraction of the projects I work on require skills just past my current ability, because the learning and figuring things out is the part of software development that I enjoy.

[smoky quest]

Pick up books on a variety of topics and roles related to swe. Go to meetups.
And explore on your own with projects. Work on a project you want to deploy, a mobile app, a frontend, a backend, etc.

For instance data engineers could use someone who is versatile, but that's not something I think you would be acquainted with unless you have explored data related problems

[smoky quest]

also to note that a common risk of being the glue/tool person is that one may end up being a garbage disposal who collects all the tasks no one else wants to do. So something to keep an eye on as well

[regal axle]

Yea; the answer is basically to take my time with it. But I would really really like to get out of my current situation and get a new job. For many reasons. Mostly personal.
As in, I don't want to spend the time now trying to find my place. I want to go get a job and then maybe I can spend some time there and find my place while I work on those side projects

[acoustic robin]

being a jack-of-all-trades without specializing in any one area carries similar risk of being the guy who gets all the stuff nobody else wants.

[wheat hatch]

It very much depends on what systems you work in and how complex they are. It usually takes about 2 years for me to start grasping the systems I work in, before that it's just a mess of confusion. So after 2 years I can start to make small but incremental design decisions, but there's still a ton of confusion.

The way I see it you got 2 choices, either you stay in your current job for a while, see if you find some clarity. If you do then it's just the learning process, as preocts describes. If you don't then maybe you should try to dip your toes into something new. Ultimately I think we grow as individuals when we take on bigger challenges and more responsibility.

[smoky quest]

yeah, focus is key

[acoustic robin]

you can make a viable career out of being that guy, but most people would rather not.

[smoky quest]

I mean sure, it's a path. But more difficult to grow and control your destiny

[regal axle]

Like I said a little earlier; I want to do dev tooling. But I have very little expereience in that. And fear that I will have to take a considerable step backwards to go that direction. Vs if I just do something somewhat related to my current knowledge and then during that spend time developing my tooling skills.

[acoustic robin]

you might try looking for openings in a company that makes dev tooling. Like GitHub or JetBrains.

[wheat hatch]

In what way will you step backwards do you mean?

[acoustic robin]

if that's where your interest lies.

[regal axle]

I just wish I knew more people in this field. I have no one to consult. No one who knows me.
Super upset that I was stuck with this current project and couldn't go to pycon. It would have been a great opportunity.

[regal axle]

If I have to take an entry level position just to get into that path. Vs getting a non entry level position and then making a jump to the same level or higher when I have more experience from side projects

Well I happen to be going to be meeting with a professor I had, in a few days. I can probably ask them for some advice.

[fringe sphinx]

People move 'paths' often, and engineering xp is engineering xp. If you can find a role that challenges you and pays well, I don't think it prevents you from shifting focus. A broad foundation is important, especially when starting out: specialization is overrated imo.

[wheat hatch]

I see. User experience can be very important when building tooling though, so your current experience can probably be factored in even though it might not have dealt explicitly with building dev tools. How dev tools are used on the market can be valuable information for dev tool developers, and having an understanding of how they are used is very handy when designing them.

So don't discount your current experience.

[acoustic robin]

A lot of companies will see "2 years experience" and translate that to "junior dev" though.

[regal axle]

It sucks because I feel like i am just getting to the point where I am deeply understanding the tools I pick up. If I had a few more months, I could likely really build out a path for myself. But waiting months to get a job isn't really a good option for me right now. I could do it. But I highly wouldn't like to

[acoustic robin]

I know that where I work someone would have to be pretty exceptional to convince my boss to hire them in a senior role with 2 years experience, and as we don't have a mid-level role, that means junior.

[smoky quest]

2 years as senior isn't likely

junior or mid is more likely

[regal axle]

Yea for sure. Not looking for nor claiming to be senior. But I also don't think I am a junior based on the few conversations I have had with the few people I know who are juniors

[smoky quest]

don't worry about it. Let the interviews decide

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not quite sure I understand. Do you have a job right now now? And why would you need to wait months to look?

[regal axle]

I mean yea. This is more me A) airing out my worries. and B) tyring to temper my expectations

[wheat hatch]

The senior/junior thingie is a) very individual and b) completely dependent on system complexity

[fringe sphinx]

💯, I think the reality is: we apply to jobs broadly, and then make the best decision from the offer(s) we get.

[regal axle]

I have freelancing work. But what we were saying, is that I should work on side projects for the path I want to go into, so I can actually have confidence when applying to those things. However, that would take me a decent amount of time.
I have a few things of work I can do to keep paying the bills in this inbetween time. But again, I want to get experience at a big company.

I actually really desire to get out of the town I live in. And see humans again.

[wheat hatch]

Why do you want to work for a big company?

[regal axle]

Sorry; a company. Doesn't have to be "big"
I was using that way too generally there

[acoustic robin]

also the meaning of junior vs mid-level vs senior can vary a lot among employers as to what level of skill is required or what is expected of people in the role.

so don't read too much into it when looking at job listings.

[wheat hatch]

No need to apologise, I only wondered because not everyone will be happy working at big companies. They usually operate in certain ways that fit some people, and others not.

[fringe sphinx]

FWIW, I've seen efficient big companies and small companies with massive bureaucracies, it's hard to predict from the outside.

[regal axle]

What I do know, is that I don't want to work at any of the companies I have done work for ....

[wheat hatch]

I wasn't talking about efficiency alone, but you're right in that small companies can also be inefficient. I meant more soft values, size and scale of everything, relations to colleagues, formality of the work, etc. I worked for both small and big companies and I have noticed a very clear difference between them. I have also had colleagues leave early because they did not like the large scale of the projects that are more common in big corporations.

[acoustic robin]

working at a company with <10 developers is a fundamentally different experience from working in one that has >100, all other considerations aside.

[wheat hatch]

To give you a concrete example:
At one small company I worked at some of my colleagues were discussing how rabbits ate their own poop during coffee break, whereby the manager yells "why is it that whenever we discuss something we always end up discussing eating poop?". Things were very informal, in the entire company.
At another very large company I once delivered a commit that didn't work and the european manager mailed me directly asking me what the fuck I had done. Things were very formal.

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno? I've worked and consulted in both worlds, I don't see it: just that different companies have different cultures. At the end of the day, work is done in small teams. There's differences, for sure, just not completely diff imo.

My point simply is: don't be afraid based on size of company. Culture/environment is the important thing, and it's hard to predict.

[wheat hatch]

The culture can definitely be the same on the team level and sometimes on the management level, but company level it's definitely not.

[summer roost]

I second that I've seen very formal startups, and pretty informal big companies

[wheat hatch]

Also my point was never to cause someone to become afraid of big companies. I just wanted to bring up that you should think through what kind of environment that you want to work in before zoning in on company of size X. Do I want to work in a very formal context or do I want more informal relations to my colleagues for example?

[acoustic robin]

I've seen a lot more variance in small companies I've worked for/with, whereas big companies and government agencies I've worked for/with have all tended towards being less flexible and more formal.

may not be universal, but definitely a strong trend in my experience.

[wheat hatch]

That's been my experience as well.

And just so we speak roughly the same numbers, with big companies I'm talking 50-100k employees ish. Small companies <100. Mid in between.

[summer roost]

I've seen multiple startups run by ex-military people that were considerably more formal than anything I've experienced in mid-sized corporation jobs

[wheat hatch]

What do you expect? it's the military

[summer roost]

it's not, it's a startup

I'll grant that there's a lot more laid back startups than laid back megacorps, but there's definitely startups that aren't laid back and megacorps that mostly are. There are companies of all sizes at both ends of the spectrum

[acoustic robin]

My current employer would be a mid-size company given that range. But I've worked for or with companies in all 3 categories.

and in my experience, the smaller companies can be pretty much anywhere on the map in terms of formality, but as they get bigger the range narrows down and trends towards the more formal side.

[wheat hatch]

Those are just my definitions, but everything is subjective. Colleague of mine once said he was from a small town of 19 million citizens. About double the population of my entire country haha.

[summer roost]

I'd agree with that

[regal axle]

One of the companies I did work for wouldn't approve a SOW becuase the amount we were charging was "too small" and would end up getting stuck. And I just don't know how a company gets to that point.

[wheat hatch]

Basically what I was saying as well.

[regal axle]

It was government adjacent type company

[true harness]

isn't that like twice the size of NYC

[wheat hatch]

Could be, he considered it small though. Chinese guy.

Big city for me is 100k, which is small by most people's standards

[acoustic robin]

yeah, I don't think of anything under a million as a big city.

[wheat hatch]

Our capital is 900k haha, sorry going offtopic

[acoustic robin]

by which definition I've never lived in a big city, but I've definitely spent time in some very big ones (Tokyo, Bangkok, Manila, Los Angeles)

[acoustic robin]

19 million is top 10 most populated metro areas in the world, so not a small town by any reasonable definition.

[smoky quest]

https://progression.fyi/ can also be helpful to gauge where you stand

[wheat hatch]

I know, it's a major city for most, as I said it's double the population of my entire country 😂 But to him it was small.

[true harness]

but that's only small for like 9 other cities 😩

[crisp heart]

hey guys

[acoustic robin]

Biggest metro area in the world (Tokyo) is only about double that, so if he thought it was small, he must have some pretty unreasonable expectations. Only 2 metro areas in China have 19 million or more people.

[regal axle]

Thanks. I will have a look

[crisp heart]

Can anyone help me here related how to make website?

[smoky quest]

How does that relate to this channel?

[crisp heart]

Dk I just asked

[acoustic robin]

probably a question better asked in the web-development channel.

[smoky quest]

Then you may want to check #❓｜how-to-get-help so you can get the best help

[crisp heart]

Career discussion

[acoustic robin]

for a question of what sort of content you should put on a website to use as a portfolio, maybe this would be the right place. But for questions about actually setting up a website, there are better channels on this server.

[sage girder]

What kind of careers would use computer science and physics?

[harsh river]

astrophysicist

robotics, aerospace, acoustic engineers and such

[sage girder]

I hate space stuffs

[whole flare]

game developers (if the game includes any physics)

[smoky quest]

Space is awesome! It's the next frontier where people can be their true self

[sage girder]

I'd probably never work in the space field, because of religion I find I would have to agree with opinions on stuff I won't agree on

[sage girder]

true but I want to do something more advanced yknow?

[smoky quest]

It's the best time to leave outdated beliefs behind and focus on the future. It's such a bright future ahead

the earth is round and nothing can change that

[sage girder]

im taking an AI class this summer using python, but I just want to learn stuff to do with programming

[sage girder]

I don't get offended by anything, but thats not what I meant and saying I should drop religion for a job is WILD, also what I meant was I disagree with alot of scientific stuff to do with space so imo its not a field im interested in

[smoky quest]

you should definitely focus on what interests you!
However science is not a matter of opinion.

[sage girder]

Science actually is a huge matter of opinion, only since even scientists fight over what they believe to be true, plus thats what bias is in science is when a study is effected by who funds it to support their opinion

But yeah what im wondering is, what can I do with python, at home, without school, right now?

[smoky quest]

Science ought to be reproducible and driven through experiments. Biases and opinions are easily disproven, not an issue

[sage girder]

anyway can you ask the question I just asked?

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[sage girder]

I'm planning on getting one, im still in highschool lol

I'm dual enrolled right now and once I go to university I'm gonna double major in physics and computer science

[smoky quest]

nice! Plenty of time to discover the world of science and build an understanding

[sage girder]

I don't like science too much, I only like Physics and CS, nothing else lol

[smoky quest]

physics and CS are rooted on science.
If science isn't your thing, I get a sense you won't like what you find there

[sage girder]

well I will, I mean I don't like science cause I don't like the beliefs of certain sciences, like biology or earth and space science, but I like CS and Physics

[smoky quest]

they are all linked together

You can't pick and choose what part of science you want to follow

[sage girder]

I can, I'm getting a degree in CS and getting a job in CS

[smoky quest]

That's misguided. The math and principles are shared

[sage girder]

I'll learn the math and principles

The thing im asking most atm is what career requires CS + Physics

[smoky quest]

it will be a great opportunity to learn more about what science is and leave outdated beliefs behind you

[restive gust]

True

[sage girder]

I really can't believe your actually saying outdated beliefs like bro😭 aint no way

I'm not dropping my faith for a paycheck man

[restive gust]

then thats on you mate

[smoky quest]

wait until you discover the real world

[sage girder]

its not gonna affect me, its not like coding has anything to do with evolution LOL

[smoky quest]

faith is fine; But do not conflate it with science

[restive gust]

Yeah bro do want you want to and what seems right for you

[smoky quest]

evolution is used in optimization algorithms. It's a very effective meta heuristic

[sage girder]

biological evolution? like physical animal evolution?

[smoky quest]

yep, like in real life

[restive gust]

Mostly ML

[whole flare]

more advanced as in scientific?

[smoky quest]

Indeed, ML and optimization and AI in general

[sage girder]

no I mean as in, not game development but real programming using libraries and doing real life stuff

[restive gust]

Are you sure what you wanna do you seem confused af

[sage girder]

I am confused

[restive gust]

What are you doing right now like college or school or employed

[sage girder]

and these people tryna make me drop all my beliefs and faith bro😭

[sage girder]

High School, Dual Enrolled, on track to get degree in computer science, I also wanna double major to get a degree in physics

The problem with Biology and Earth and Space science, is that, they are trying to make it more secular and rid religious beliefs, which is why I don't believe some of it

[restive gust]

which field of physics

[restive gust]

Not exactly, They have their own research and whichever belief you have also has different research behind it

its just a matter of which is more likely

[sage girder]

Most of them outside of Theoretical, but my main focuses will be Mechanical, Acoustic, and Thermodynamics

[smoky quest]

that's the whole problem you are gonna face for the next few years.
Science is about reproducible experiments. Anyone can reproduce the results, understand them and build upon them. Faith is cool but it's not reproducible and as such not useful for science.
Faith and science don't necessary oppose each other as long as you don't let them. No different than 600 years ago when people discovered the universe did not revolve around the earth

[sage girder]

reproduce the creation of the universe for me😭

[smoky quest]

Science is not a great field for people who want to focus on faith

[sage girder]

Science cannot prove nor deny the existance of god, however the problem is when they try to

[restive gust]

fr tho you gotta make a choice

[sage girder]

bruh😭 computer science isn't really a physical science tho and idk why yall care

[restive gust]

Faith or Science

[smoky quest]

So taking evolution as an example: a friend of mine is a researcher and she uses evolution every single day in order to drive to specific outcome. It works. It's not a matter of believing or not, because it works regardless of what one thinks

[sage girder]

bruh arent yall saying they dont oppose

[smoky quest]

CS is a science. It will have experiments and it will have links to the physical worlds like wave propagation or evolution

[sage girder]

you cant reproduce evolution on a physical species RIGHT NOW

[restive gust]

I didn't say that

[smoky quest]

you can and people do that every day. My friend does that every single day

[sage girder]

they evolve a species in a day? doesn't it take billions of years? weeird, my point is it doesnt matter to any of you LOL and it sure wont matter to my employer

Can you guys just tell me whether its worth it to get a degree in physics or just CS?

[smoky quest]

Take a step back. A billions of years is the time it took from nothing to single cells to humans. That's a long time and a lot of changes. You do not need as much changes to leverage evolution

[whole flare]

Depends on what you want to do, what's your goal?

[sage girder]

Idk what I want to do, Idek what I can do with programming outside of game engines

I just want to make something more, impactful, than video games

[restive gust]

backend

[sage girder]

huuuuuuuh?

also where do I learn about this stuff (CS, Physics) outside of school?

[smoky quest]

there are tons of books.
But again, science is very much forward looking. You will find many references to things you do not believe in and rely on math/physics of things you do not believe in. It's also very accepting and you will have to work closely with LGBTQ people

You are headed for a world of hurts

[sage girder]

LOL I love how you bring up the LGBTQ thing, because, literally, I dont mind bro😭 I could care less

[restive gust]

Computer science and physics often focus on applied aspects. For example, a physicist studying mechanics might not be directly involved in debates about the origin of the universe.

[sage girder]

how??? like literally I'm already having to deal with people telling me im wrong for my religion lol

[smoky quest]

Great! there is generally a correlation with outdated beliefs and hating on LGBTQ. All the power to you

[sage girder]

thats what IM saying, thats partly why im staying away from theoretical physics LOL

[smoky quest]

Christianity very much accepts evolution.
Your sect is outside of Christianity. It's not about your religion but how your beliefs conflict with real world

[sage girder]

first of all, just say religion, man, outdated beliefs sounds cringe, secondly they dont hate the people they hate the sin lol

[sage girder]

No I dont believe in sects, you mean denominations, also, whatever christians you talked to that believe in evolution are a different group

[smoky quest]

Most religions do live in the current world and do not reject science. That's not a religious problem but a belief problem

[sage girder]

were very split on beliefs, and its like 50/50 who believes in evolution and big bang and who doesn't

Could we stop discussing religion lol

[pine sleet]

this is not on topic for this channel. we can have our differences and still talk about careers & python 😄

[sage girder]

THATS WHAT I MEAN, I dont feel comfortable trying to justify my religion in a topic that doesnt have to even be related

[smoky quest]

That does not change the premise you will have a hard time in a scientific field with beliefs that will conflict with it.
But yeah, good luck

[sage girder]

but like CS wont be like that, especially since I wanna get into software engineering or data science

[bleak heron]

my friend, this is where you brought up your religion. right here ^^^

[smoky quest]

I am in the field of CS and have had to use evolution to solve problems. The implication here is you will have to avoid any problem that would be solved by evolution or things you do not want to look at

[sage girder]

no see thats the thing, I never said I didnt bring up my religion, I said I dont want to justify it, I brought it up as a set in stone reason why I wont follow biology or earth and space science

[sage girder]

idk how using evolution to solve problems means believing in physical evolution lol

[smoky quest]

It's using the same mechanisms

[sage girder]

but its not physically believing in evolution, its using the algorithm of it yes?

[smoky quest]

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Feel free to call it not-evolution-algorithm-at-all

[restive gust]

I feel like this is starting to get heated can we stop?

[bleak heron]

💀

[sage girder]

idk whats your problem man but I was just asking what I could do to learn about it

[sage girder]

are textbooks really useful in Computer Science? always thought they weren't needed really

[pine sleet]

textbooks are great

[lethal leaf]

guys my exam are over
i want to learn python
where should i start

[smoky quest]

I don't have any problem. You are just being warned about how is the field.

[restive gust]

I am a youtube university student don't ask me

[whole flare]

Probably from the beginning

[smoky quest]

textbooks are awesome and will go in depth

[smoky quest]

automating the boring stuff is a great

[sage girder]

what does that mean?

[whole flare]

its the name of a book

[smoky quest]

automating the boring stuff is the name of a book

[sage girder]

OHHHHH okay

[restive gust]

I learnt Python from a tutorial

[smoky quest]

and now you could learn it from a book

[sage girder]

I know how to use python with pygame but idk what else I can do with it really

[restive gust]

is it avalable online

[smoky quest]

yes

[whole flare]

Many things.. just take a look at the non-exhaustive list of topical channels.

[restive gust]

Data science and ML/DL

[smoky quest]

oh wait, nevermind. You have pride hate in my notes. I won't help you anymore. Good luck

[sage girder]

how do I get started doing that stuff?

[restive gust]

what when did i say that

[whole flare]

By having a good foundational understanding of some math

[sage girder]

oh

[smoky quest]

discord notes aren't that extensive. Sorry about that

[sage girder]

what math should I learn? and how? (I cant afford textbooks and my school isnt teaching me advanced mathematics yet)

[restive gust]

i just said python lgbtq confirmed

[sage girder]

wait, does ML stand for Machine Learning?

[whole flare]

Yes

[restive gust]

yes

[sage girder]

LOL IK what that is, idk how I would physically code it but im learning it this summer

[restive gust]

can we take this to off topic gen?

[sage girder]

which one?

[restive gust]

the one with the weird ass name the ot0-gifs-are-maltese

[static aspen]

man

i wanna make an executor tbh for roblox

[vocal saddle]

Hi everyone! 👋

I'm excited to announce that I'm starting my journey into Machine Learning and I'm looking for fellow enthusiasts to join me. Over the next three months, I will be fully dedicating my time to learning and mastering ML, and I would love to connect with like-minded individuals who are also passionate about this field.

If you're interested in learning together, guiding each other, and sharing resources, please DM me or react to this message. Let's create a collaborative and supportive environment where we can all grow and succeed in our ML endeavors!

[languid sinew]

Hi everyone. I am looking for a team of young, ambitious programmers, app-developers who are passionate about technology and education. This is more than just a job; it’s a chance to be part of something groundbreaking from the ground up. We need individuals who are ready to work for the idea and are excited about the potential of earning a percentage of the app’s future success.
Our mission is to revolutionize the way people learn languages, making it more engaging, effective, and accessible to everyone.
Please get in touch with us to discuss this opportunity if you are interested.

[pine sleet]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[pine sleet]

LinkedIn would be a better spot for this

[harsh remnant]

Nice scam bud

[chilly dragon]

Is machine learning good

[final ravine]

Seems off topic

[chilly dragon]

Is machine learning good

[true harness]

do you mean "standup"?

[digital fjord]

At my company we do weekly stand-ups, but from what I've seen daily stand-ups are the overwhelming majority.

[harsh remnant]

Do you guys actually stand or can you sit too

[digital fjord]

It's probably for the managers benefit, so that they know what's actually happening.

[true harness]

at both companies i've been at, we had daily standups. the key is to be as streamlined as possible. at one company we had ~10 people in the standup, at my current we have like ~20-30. somehow they took the same amount of time 💀

[harsh remnant]

I wanna start my own company at 18 years old

[glacial vapor]

imma direct join the python company when i be 20

[true harness]

the Python company?

[glacial vapor]

yeah for sure

[true harness]

psf I guess? they have a few full time positions

[harsh remnant]

I guess I can create a dating website for computer science majors 😂

[delicate yarrow]

Hi im new here

[balmy mural]

I find our standup to be quite useful every day. 10-15 minutes right at the start of the day to get an update of what everyone's doing, raising any issues that's blocking me from work, getting updates on what's currently priority. I also need to know if someone picked up work adjacent to what I'm actively working on since we might have to chat and just align on what we're doing.
I'm fully remote, so it's even more important to do these sessions since there's no quick communication while sitting in the same office that can happen during the day

Tasks rarely take less than 7 hours unless it's a small bug picked up during testing. No one in our team has ownership over entire sections of a project. We have 4-5 teams and each team is responsible for a section of the project

It's way faster to get the 10min update in the mornings than to open each ticket that's assigned and read through the requirements to see if it's adjacent to whatever I'm currently workin on

Our team is 12 people and it's rarely over 10 minutes

When it goes over 10 minutes it's normally because there were some big decisions made in a meeting with business, which I don't have to attend because I get updated on the state of that during standups

That sounds like your team does standup incorrectly. When done correctly, it's extremely useful

We don't give small updates on our projects. We basically just let peoiple know when we pick something up and what we're currently working on. Fastest way to identify who's working on anything lower priority if something high priority comes up.
idk what wrike or equivalent is.
A task is free if the ticket isn't assigned.

All three of these things would take more time out of my day than 10 minutes if I have to constantly monitor these channels for updates instead of getting a quick update in the morning

I don't see it as a waste since it's a productive 10 minute session each time 🤷‍♂️

I feel like you overestimate how easily people would jump into discussions if they werent happening in standup.
Me: I'm a bit stuck on X today, need some help
Person 1: I did something similar recently, let's hop into a call after standup and I'll give you some hints
Person 2+3: I'm interested in those hints too, pull me into the meeting.

vs

Me: Post message I'm stuck
Person 1: Immediately available and hops into call with me to help out
Person 2 misses out on the knowledge transfer

[buoyant seal]

We did voice stand-ups often too.
But recently we adopted more efficient and better communicating strategy with just posting the same report to Slack

As fully remote person it is still nice to have video standups two times a week, just for the sake of seeing people

[balmy mural]

I honestly can't see our standups and the info communicated in them being reduced down to some quick slack messages. There's always some back and forth on some core issues where it's useful to have the input of the whole team. We still manage everything in our designated time slot and I don't want to break concentration in the middle of my day to go to a meeting that would normally happen right at the start of the day

Standup might not be needed everywhere, but when done well, I think majority of teams reap benefits from it

[buoyant seal]

That allows us also adding visibility to what we are doing to our boss above that is not present usually at meetings ^_^ but he is capable to check slack
As well as easier comprehending what other colleague say. One of my French coworkers speaks rather terrible in English and never gets good microphone

[balmy mural]

The core issues isn't a ticket someone's struggling on. It's normally design decisions and the whole team gets pulled into those because it's useful for everyone to know why certain decisions are made and to contribute if they see something useful someone else might have missed. It's a great learning and growing opportunity since my day2day does not involve doing technical designs

[buoyant seal]

We discuss designs as Slack Threads 😉
Any relevant person can be pinged into it, beyond our team

I work through outsourcing agency with French company as end client via outstaffing. Yeah fully remote and async friendly, I work with them last 2 years from Serbia.
I can name only the name of the international agency

[errant thicket]

that’s what i do i read everything in the python discussion is that a good thing to do ?

[buoyant seal]

I fulfill DevOps engineering role / Backend dev job duties. Infra dev with strong dev side.

They have nice container scheduling immutable infra in AWS ECS for 100k$ per month.
Everything is Terraform, infrastructure as a code.

Automatically build to docker image and unit tested as CI pipeline and auto deployed to staging. And with button click in web gui, deployed to production.

Database migrations as a Django ORM code get deployed on another button click

I like how modern stuff I get to work with. Integrated everything with Datadog.

And recent times develop for our Kubernetes infra things. With covering things in self hosted monitoring choices.

From time to time dealing with pure Backend dev duties.

People are in general nice to communicate

Everything they chose, is highly efficient to maintain and develop with minimal amount of infra people. As things are automated and uniform across everything and just reuses our terraform modules or other infra components

Well... Only their backend and regular code somewhat sucks. No static typing is sad because of harder readability and lack of automated validations. Add here problems of having dozen microservices communicating blindly with each other.
They fight issues through relying onto uniformness and boilerplate of DRF, and having good staging production with Sentry catching stuff. So some choices are made and they serve them faithfully for millions code lines.

[fringe sphinx]

That seems insane. I've been in plenty of places that don't emphasize unit tests, but I've never seen it actively discouraged

[prime depot]

can anyone help me? I wanna convert acsm file to pdf

[vapid jay]

@low tundra Hi

[olive sphinx]

anyone here applying for pair/espr ?

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help

[hot adder]

why the fuck is every server gay now

[peak halo]

It's pride month. But this server has always been gay.
Let us know in #community-meta if you have any questions about this. Be sure to read our #code-of-conduct

[runic prism]

😂

[hot adder]

how can a server be gay

[runic prism]

2024

[kindred oyster]

our server likes other servers too

[hot adder]

are there male and female servers?

[peak halo]

This is the career discussion channel. If you have any questions about this, please go to #community-meta

[dense fiber]

guys, when someone asked for 'what technical stack' I'm most comfortable with, what is expected? like a list of languages or stacks like MERN?

[deft herald]

I mean you can put anything in a contract

Not for exempt employees I believe

[deft herald]

Actually I'm just talking out my ass. Minimum wage still applies to salaried employees

[true harness]

equity can count as income depending on how it's laid out. at least it can be taxed like it (in the US), I assume that counts for minimum wage laws

[silver jacinth]

Equity is not income until you sell it

If you're not paid a salary and just 100% equity, you're not paid

[deft herald]

Yup

So I guess there's your answer

[silver jacinth]

I can buy 100 shares of Nvidia and if I don't sell anything, I don't need to report it on taxes as capital gains only counts it as income when you sell your shares

[true harness]

it can be taxable though

[silver jacinth]

Not if you don't sell it

[true harness]

it depends

[silver jacinth]

If you're given a stock package, that's considered a bonus usually. It's not income, you don't report it on your taxes unless you sell them. Then it becomes capital gains, not income from a salary

[deft herald]

No that's not what I interpret it as at all

[silver jacinth]

It's still income when you sell it ofc, but you'll be paying 50% tax in Canada + tax brackets

[deft herald]

As part of the overall compensation package

[silver jacinth]

You can dodge it by journaling shares over to a country with lower taxes and opening an account there. Then it's cheaper

You won't need to report that to your origin country afterwards

[errant thicket]

hello billy is that good things to do ? read python discussion ?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes absolutely. And watch PyCon/Europython conference videos. You'll be amazed at all the interesting things people are working on.

[balmy spade]

Slightly different for the US tax laws. When you are given restricted stock units you are not taxed on the grant. However, the moment the units vest and become yours, you are taxed. There's options of handling that tax with Section 83 but yeah... you still end up paying some of the units out in a tax one way or another.

[fringe sphinx]

Plus there are different types of stock grants, ISOs vs RSU and NQ's all have different tax implications.

[balmy spade]

A valid reason to consider stock options as initial compensation as a red flag to be cautious of. You don't get the stocks right away. No company in a sane mind will just grant you stocks. They will be restricted units that need to vest over N months(years). You have to stay with the company until they vest for it to be your money. Hence the name; Golden Handcuffs.

[balmy spade]

Yeah. I'm not all that well educated on all the various options. I get RSUs at work. I put them on the metaphorical shelve and just leave them there. "That's neat, maybe I'll use that someday." Sometimes I'll look at the stock number and go "Oh, that went up! yay." even though I have no plans. haha

[vital bane]

SOFT WARE DEVLOPERs

[summer roost]

if they're any significant portion of your portfolio, it would probably be a good idea to sell them off as they vest and invest the proceeds in index funds instead. If the company you work for is a big part of your portfolio, then the company going through a rough patch can hit you twice as hard, with both a pay cut or layoff from your employer, plus a big hit to the value of your portfolio as the stock price falls.

[deft herald]

I sell my rsu's immediately when they vest

Same with espp

I don't believe in my company that much lol. Too volatile

[balmy spade]

Good shout. I've got a financial advisor lined up for the first time in a long while (since my last one retired). The current state of my portfolio across the company stock options to the 401k is first up on the list of matters to review and shore up.

Granted, the company went public; within months lost 75% of the opening value; and we've little places to go now but up. I've picked up what I see as some really cheap stock for a company that I am willing to bet will do better in the next five to ten years. We shall see though!

[fringe sphinx]

I wish my company (years ago) only lost 75% 🙂 ... literally a million dollars of shares went to literal penny's before my lockup expired.

(I was young and it meant nothing at the time, but some of the execs had 100's and 10's on paper before it tanked)

[balmy spade]

I'd be far more concerned if I saw myself moving anytime soon. I like working where I am right now though. It's a very rare thing from my experience. So if it takes the new leadership another 10 years to dig out of the hole, that's fine. Wasn't my money to start with

[marble tulip]

@severe brook jasperG?

[true hatch]

Is a UberEats driver a good job?

[true harness]

my brother did doordash, so i assume it's similar. it was decent, but obviously you need a car, so there is a slight upfront cost that is out of reach for most people

[true hatch]

when i'll be in college, il probably be uber eats driver

how much did you make per hour

ouch!

Is it hard to get a car during college?

[pine sleet]

it can be. depends on you & your parents financial situation

[fringe sphinx]

A lot of campuses in US have things like zipcar

[true hatch]

what is zipcar?

My father told me that driving is therapeutic

[fringe sphinx]

It is for me. I love going for a drive to clear my head.

[swift sigil]

Hello, it's always possible to use Chat-GPT with a free API_Key in python ?

[peak halo]

you have to pay to use the API. that's what's subsidizing all the people who are using it for free.

[fringe sphinx]

I do have an electric car, if that makes you feel better 🙂

[swift sigil]

Ok thanks, I remembered that a few months ago, it was still possible to use the API key for free with davinci-code-3

oh yeah sure, i had already use some of ones

[tropic totem]

Does anyone know how I can disable key with python?

[smoky quest]

Hi! It's the wrong channel.
See #❓｜how-to-get-help so you can get answers

[analog river]

What would be some beginner projects I can take up to better understand the basics of python

Literally beginning from scratch and I started reading "automate the boring stuff"

[summer roost]

this is the #career-advice channel

[buoyant seal]

https://darklab8.github.io/blog ^_^
I added sections, About, Articles, Pet Projects and Favorite books (and other people's articles)

This is pretty much serving as Portfolio site, to make people seeing Projects worthy to mention
As well as it is showing what i did read and find worthy to share (in a roundabout way it is in my opinion a very worthy stuff for portfolio to mention, as it shows what are the things i use for my self education)
And going with writing articles too. That is another thing worthy to be part of Portfolio and effort, as it kind of shows my "thinking" and going beyond just using technology, but also "rethinking" it how to use it beyond its documentational means

It is very, long term aimed effort to do... as writing Blog is actually... really... time/effort consuming thing. (At the same time it is fun having my own corner in a web, where i can write my thoughts out of a head to text in a relinkable way across different platforms)
Well, pet projects are all long term time consuming effort to pursue too.
And book readings too.
So... this site is pretty much kind of show casing all my extracurricular activities that i do beyond just job
Therefore I aim this site to grow with me as continuous effort during years.

As side hack, i added html anchors for books, pet projects and their sections and etc. And just linking this web site now in communities i participate
in order to have centralized place for mentioning all stuff i provide, or already commented and etc
So kind of hub to "link" stuff for other people
So i make the site usable beyond being "just portfolio"

P.S. for easy continued development and maintenance in very long term(we are thinking of 10 years+), it is just a static site generator utilizing only static typed "templating" language as almost single dependency. Which offers me ability to write stuff just in "markdown" for articles in addition, for simplication of effort.

P.P.S. for comfort i added also abilities for code block syntax highlighting and plan to use mermaid.js for diagrams as a code ^_^ As well as having dark/white mode switches (it is 2024 year after all). And kind of using it also as archive, by providing for some external content archived offline copies as backup (As anything can dissapear from internet during 10 years)

The choice of not having modern js frameworks, and overly flashy (and heavy) Three.js stuff with a ton of animations as most other people do for portfolios was a conscious choice on my part, as i wish my portfolio remaining simple, performant, easy readable and easy to maintain. The current design of a site, reflects things i value.

[errant thicket]

ok also do you thinking learning pyhon language will be fine for me? i learned some js as well too

[fringe sphinx]

Yes. Python is the first language for many people.

[zealous lichen]

Python zamel

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[tranquil nest]

Does anyone know how to code a discord bot?

[pine sleet]

the folks in #discord-bots do

[supple junco]

happy pride month

[wispy lichen]

Hi, about how many projects in my portfolio should I have for a strong portfolio? I was thinking of 4 - 6 good projects. A pygame w mini games (human vs computer… computer side will be controlled by algorithms such as DFS, A*, etc). An interactive database w Django, a generative ai app (like take a pic and transfer a style onto it, something like that not sure yet). Maybe a website w a LLM help chatbot, etc. Not sure what else. Besides that I have a blog where I talk about ML concepts. Is this good enough for employers?

[peak halo]

Ignoring all porfolio projects, what are your other "resume items"? What are your academic and professional credentials?

[wispy lichen]

I will graduate soon from uni. ML + neurosci, I’ve done research at my university for two years, I’ve helped w a lot of the data like interviewing ppl, cleaning it, and analyzing it, writing papers/reports, etc about the info.

[peak halo]

This is ultimately way more important than your portfolio projects. If at least two of those portfolio projects have presentable readmes, I would not invest any additional time in them.

On your resume, only allocate space to your portfolio projects that is left over after you give all the relevant attention to your academic and professional work.

[wispy lichen]

Ok, ty for the input!!

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> scam

[summer roost]

!cban 1219391572559401021 scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @bold lance permanently.

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> sounds like community rules breaking

[summer roost]

!tempban 949330294455021618 14d Homophobia is not welcome here.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @umbral osprey until <t:1718587430:f> (14 days).

[buoyant seal]

Hi, about how many projects in my portfolio should I have for a strong portfolio? I was thinking of 4 - 6 good projects.
If you are trully invested into pet projects, they should evolve as you evolve 🙂 Developer skill usually grows with time, if making effort.
What u build today, will be seen by you as... shit in your own eyes within 1-2 years with some good chance 😁
I remade some of my pet projects from zero three times as this point, and continue their evolution as new ideas spark
if you are trully invested into them, making pet projects will consume free time for as long as your career goes and further

What u mentioned sounds like fine for your job role aim and your level, but consider making projects as much as possible aimed for real users
For communities that really have demand in them.
Choose at least making project with features that u need every day (or every week) in your life. That ensures its continous development far easier.

For presenting the projects themselves they should have good Readme.md, documentation, articles accordingly describing them.
Good visuals easy to see should be good.
With good enough presentation, complete crap can be "sold" as really great stuff.

With catching "demand" for what people need right now, you can get onto hype of meeting people expectations and making project rather active as well.

As your last resort, you can always make project just for yourself for every day usage. You know that u can be comitting to its imrpovements in long term and using it as u need it (if u figured out what u need)

====
P.S. it is common evaluating people by one best project. So quantity of projects is not really important usually.
Important... the quality of a single project pretty much. How much it is developed, feature complete for user needs, having smth trully unique and etc
Due to your job role specifics though article approach with researchs and demos should be rather valid approach too though.

[wispy lichen]

Tyyy, appreciate your input!!

I just hear that submitting your resume and having zero projects looks bad lol
So Imma just make 4 - 5 really good/detailed projects and start applying asap, can’t go hungry lmao

[buoyant seal]

i would mention that really good detailed projects take from me weeks, and even beyond a month of free time effort 😄
Multiply that time by... order of magnitude by many times, since u are doing stuff as novice, while i do stuff at this point when i am ready after learning in advance some specific stuff for.... weeks or months prior to that before i became ready
TSo, doing 4-5 good detailed projects is rather optimistic.
Doing just few indeed detailed projects will consume a lot of time. Heck, a big enough commitment can be consumed by a single project for long time (at a span of year and etc)

[buoyant seal]

At some point making pet projects is kind of similar to full time job 😅

it is always fun though, because working on the most desired tech, trying new stuff and etc

[wispy lichen]

Yeah projects take such a long time 😭😭
Imma wait til August or September to apply though 😭😅
If I get to 3 or 4 I’ll be happy, I’ll have my blog too + my research experience, hopefully that’s good enough 😭🙏📿

Ask me again and I’ll prolly list 2 - 3 projects, I keep lowering the number every time 🤡😂😭

[slow elbow]

I am looking for a male business partner who is based on US, Canada, Mexico, South America and 30~35 years old.
Your role is really simple and this is paid work
If you are interested, DM me.

Skills/attributes required:

• Timely and effective communication with me in telegram, discord or skype

• General knowledge of how to operate Windows and browser-based web sites and platforms

• Keeping the laptop secure, plugged in at all times, and on a strong internet connection

• Providing your upwork and freelancer account and laptop

[peak halo]

!warn 1156042416919429210 Recruiting for paid work is not allowed on this server.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @slow elbow.

[devout zenith]

Assembler and Fortran was mine, Python didn't exist

[molten token]

I'm learning python and I'm wondering if I should get JS as a second language or learn machine learning concepts etc and hopefully land an internship in a while, but I can't decide
Machine learning seems safer since AI wont be able to take my job for a long time I assume, but it'll also be quite hard to land a job as 0 experience, even an internship will be hard to find

[buoyant seal]

if you learn python and aim to be Backend dev, you should learn JS in at least strong Vanilla JS capacity + adding htmx to the mix eventually.
if you learn python and aim to be full stack (frontend) developer. Then u should learn beyond Vaniila JS, and commiting to Node.js ecosystem with learning Typecript.

Machine learning to learn or not to learn is your own preferences.

hubt — 09/22/2022
i warn everyone that wants to be in AI/ML: you spend a huge amount of time on data validation, cleanup, and analysis. and generally a lot less time than you'd think on the actual AI/ML part. unless your company has very mature data management and data pipelines(very few companies do), expect to spend a lot more time on data engineering than AI/ML
but essentially it wil be data engineering actually needed more.
I personally consider Machine Learning as just a hype that will pass away as crypto, nft and web3 🙂 Not really smth safe to learn for long term career... at least in my opinion.
Plus i just don't like data scientist path for machine learning. It is too much "alien"(mathematics/science and etc) to my taste from the point of more pure software engineering career direction.
if u are strongly mathematically/science aligned, may be it your cup of tea though

[buoyant seal]

@molten token the essential problem with machine learning... that is very expensive to do.
With kind of you know, not very stable results to rely upon? Experimenting with tries and errors on different data sets to make it eventually working on better target data set? woah? And super expensive data set gathering.
As well as needing videocards to speed up its functioning
That alone kind of makes it way less convenient right away for safe career.

I can understand if your Data Science/Data engineerings would be main direction of going and u would learn through stuff around Machine learning
You would have then some strong fundament around.
And only after that diving to ML itself, but learning ML itself only looks not very worthy/stable to me

Exactly. If desire is long term stability for 10-20+ years of learned skill relevance. ML is not smth stable looking like to choose here.
Learning stuff around, Data Science/Data engineering first to break into ML (with keeping ML as smaller path of your skill set), sounds like better path.. but like are you willing to commit to this path, it is not short, and will probably consume your entire career capacity to follow it

[honest perch]

HI, any of u got IEEE membership?

[white relic]

I used to. I think the student membership can be worth it if you go to a lot of conferences and network hard. Professional membership only makes sense if your company pays for it

Most people will not get their money's worth from it.

[coarse fractal]

Brooo

[pastel thunder]

I was asked a question in interview about how you will multiply two matrix when you can only fit few rows and columns on cpu at a time

How will we achieve minimum number of input and output calls

[silk rose]

Re sparse: Sounds a bit like this?

Would numpy help and maybe there numpy einsum https://numpy.org/doc/stable/reference/generated/numpy.einsum.html

[pastel thunder]

No

I think they wanted to do chunks at a time

But not sure why the discussion was continuing when i said something like that at the beginning but only

[flint leaf]

guys i need help in excel sheet automation bit urgent

[silk rose]

Can one work in data science these days without advanced knowledge in machine learning? I have a background in physics and materials science.

[flint leaf]

see i need to write down code in python to get final output like this iam written almost all code for calculation and providers tab in a single sheet but need output in this frame

please help me guys

[silk rose]

There is python for Excel these days. but I think you would be good with Pandas

Maybe you should cover names out of data protection problems

[flint leaf]

could you help me to write down the code

iam have done all calculations but failing to do soo

[wheat hatch]

Sure, we have a few physcisists at my work that's heavily into analysis work. What they bring to the table is understanding of the physical phenomena that we analyse, usually channel models and wave propagation.
I'd say this is the case for data science work related to your background. What kind of material science do you do?

[gritty rivet]

Show your work in a help channel #❓｜how-to-get-help

[silk rose]

@puuch I check the structure of materials. Currently working on some strain stress analysis. I wish to escape academia, it is too unstable.

@rex Sorry, I have today not soo much time.

[wheat hatch]

Maybe automotive or heavy industry might suit you? Lots of materials analysis work there for new cars, trucks, construction vehicles etc. Usually a lot of data crunching to find out lifetimes for components, stress tolerances, such things that a lowly computer engineer like myself don't understand haha

Where are you based if you don't mind me asking

[silk rose]

@wheat hatch When I would apply at your company, how long should be the CV, pelase?
Yes, I found a contact in automative, I hope he accepts my Linkedin invite.

@puuch my wish would be to combine data science and physics, do something meaning full in R&D

@puuch Europe in the wider sense

[wheat hatch]

I don't work with material stuff, I work in telecoms. We deal with very immaterial stuff like EM waves sadly.
In Europe you got lots of automotive, some aerospace, shipbuilding, etc. You should be able to find something that fits your background I think.

[wheat hatch]

Here's a few companies that I know on the top of my head deals with materials stuff. Postings was a bit slim atm but you should be able to check their postings on a regular basis to see if anything comes up
https://jobs.man.eu/search/?createNewAlert=false&q=&locationsearch=&optionsFacetsDD_customfield1=Engineering&optionsFacetsDD_customfield2=&optionsFacetsDD_customfield4=&optionsFacetsDD_customfield5=
https://jobs.scania.com/search/?createNewAlert=false&q=&locationsearch=&optionsFacetsDD_country=&optionsFacetsDD_department=Data+Science&optionsFacetsDD_shifttype=&optionsFacetsDD_facility=&optionsFacetsDD_customfield3=
https://ag.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/Airbus
https://jobs.volvogroup.com/?locale=en_US
https://jobs.thyssenkrupp.com/en?filter=jobField%3AEngineering+%26+Science

[pastel thunder]

Why would he say, hr round is on wednesday when i know i did shit is one of the on site round?

[dire hinge]

I want to ask if there is any way for some viewers to grab these gifts in the live broadcast.

[silk rose]

Thank you.I will continue in my search. Send you a pm

[wheat hatch]

I don't do pm's, we can talk career related in this channel 😄

[gritty rivet]

That doesn't seem like a career question, or even a Python question. Maybe try an OT channel.

[silk rose]

Applied to airbus recently, but the stoppedthe hiring process.

[dire hinge]

What

[silk rose]

@puuch Thank you also for the career suggestions. ESA would be also cool. Trying to get into the network.
I just wrote, I am flexible regaring location, it also depends if the company is willing to give me a chance

[dire hinge]

Can mobile live streamers send gifts or make a countdown rush purchase by writing a program in Python

[silk rose]

I applied also for a job as calibration scientist but did not survive the second interview. I would be somebody with a longer stay in academia. Maybe this is not so well recognised

[wheat hatch]

Space stuff is cool! Lots of ESA work is done by subcontractors like Airbus though so you might get more interesting technical jobs looking among those subcontractors.

[silk rose]

But those jobs were all without ML background. Currently I see a lot of data scientist jobs demanding 2-3 years ML etc

[gritty rivet]

Not a career question, this is the career channel. Try #python-discussion

[silk rose]

In summary, I need a company that gives me a chance 🙂 (Or I need to be better in explaining what I am doing in academia, it is not the standard things.)

[wheat hatch]

I can tell you for a fact that most of our analysis team would fall apart without the expert domain knowledge of our physics folks. They might be looking for ML jobs right now, but in an analysis team there should always be someone with domain knowledge.

[silk rose]

@puuch That gives me some hope and encouragement.

It would be also said for me not to use my physics knowledge afterall .

[molten token]

wow, that is very insightful, thanks alot! a mentor actually told me to go for JS after python and i didnt really ask why for some reason, why would i need it for backend?

he is actually a fullstack so thats probably why :D

[buoyant seal]

because backend devs need to build Admin interfaces or simple solutions returning html pages directly rendered from backend.
Javscript in this case is still needed as "helping scripting augmentator" to do things. Because there is "de facto" (almost) no other things are usable at client side of browser.
So you will need still javascript to make things working according to yoru design.

Vanilla JS also understanding is required to utilize powerful backendish tech named as htmx https://htmx.org/docs/#introduction
Making client side interactivity rather simple for backenders.
The trick is... JS is the only thing... capable to interact with DOM of browser, events, its api and etc directly. you will learn it if go through Head First Javascript. So u just need it to make things right even as just backender

[gritty rivet]

Loads of backend is also done with JavaScript from what I understand.

[buoyant seal]

Full stack person it is Frontend dev 😛 that knows some scraps of backend.
Not exactly sure if he is one, but in this case knowing JS is obligatory as it is the primary language for frontenders
If full stack dev is profficient in backend, then he is backend dev 😁 but even backend devs still need JS (Because we are all cursed with no ability to use anything else at client side)
P.S. some day we will be able using other languages besides JS at browser client side.

[fringe sphinx]

If you ask 5 developers this question (what to learn next), you'll get 10 different answers. There's no specific consensus here, ime.

[buoyant seal]

we can add though, that every backend dev is supposed to know vanilla JS at basic level to safe his life. Eventually.

[molten token]

well thanks a lot everyone! i have a better idea of what i want to focus on now :D

[hearty island]

damnit handshake, let me update my status to alumni

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, that's certainly inevitable!

[shrewd dagger]

guys , im a bit new to coding

been learnign for a year in school and i love it , but i also love histroy , and my history teacher says i should go do histroy for college (im doing my final year after this summer) and idk what to do ? I like programming but i also like history , is there a way to mix both ?

[vital grotto]

Hey guys! I'm really into coding and AI, and I'm looking to join a group or find a mentor to work on some projects together. It could relate to anything, I'm 13 and eager to learn and contribute. If anyone's interested or knows a good club to join, hit me up!

[white torrent]

I had a similar thing between two subjects in school and I was able to apply for courses that let me do a split degree of both subjects at university, however I’m not sure how many places will offer a split of history and coding

[shrewd dagger]

that would be cool , im hoping some where in gdansk ill go to because im from poland .

[white torrent]

If you can only pick one, honestly go with the one you find more interesting, and that you could see yourself doing a job in

In NI I had to go from 4 A-Level subjects to one degree and I ended up picking computer science because it was the one I loved doing so much that I even did it in my spare time

[shrewd dagger]

yeah im more likely to have a better of future in smth to do with computer science . I love history but the jobs available are limited . Unless in 10 years time theyll need sm1 with both hiswtroy skills and computer science skills to analyse the vast amounts of internet histroy lmfao

[white torrent]

It would be very niche - but I believe there are jobs where you can use programming to help with the archiving of old historical documents or even in the restoring of older artifacts/documents that are super old and possibly missing bits and pieces

But I don’t feel like that sort of job will be available everywhere you go

[shrewd dagger]

yeah , it is very niche . But tbh , maybe i can becoem a history teacher and a computer science teacher , Lotso f teachers in my school do that where they teach multiple subjects

[white torrent]

Usually people with teaching qualifications specialise in a subject

Any teachers in NI that teach more than one subject only ever teach one of them to the younger students who don’t have official exams for that subject, they leave the teaching of examined subjects to teachers qualified in that specific subject

Not sure what the subject requirements are like in other countries though

[shrewd dagger]

mmmmmh yeah thats true , well i'll see , ill probs do computer science relate stuff due to the better job opurtunitires

[white torrent]

With computer science you can always try and find jobs in a company that works on historical projects

Since most jobs are related to helping code/maintain a product for something specific, some of which are non-tech related

[shrewd dagger]

that would be cool ! SO far im still stuck on what college subject i wanna do if ya get me

[white torrent]

There’s a startup in Belfast that uses AI to monitor the behaviour of cows, they sell their product to farmers

[fringe sphinx]

You could also look at volunteering with https://archive.org/about/volunteerpositions.php

[shrewd dagger]

that would be cool

[white torrent]

There’s even a software company in the same city for building software for morgues and funeral homes, you could definitely find a tech job history related if you look in the right places

[shrewd dagger]

hmmm i never thoguht of it like that

history really is anywhere , same with computers

[lilac wren]

hey is anyone here ?

i need some urget help

i am filling an application of a hackathon which is asking for slack username does it mean a nickname or slack app username ?

[smoky quest]

I would assume it means your username on slack. If you don't have an account on slack, ignore it

[lilac wren]

but its required

[smoky quest]

then create one

[lilac wren]

and i dont have never used slack btw why do we slack ?

[white relic]

you'd have to ask the organizers of the hackathon

[lilac wren]

thank you very much

[smoky quest]

one scenario I could think of is if they organize it through slack

[vapid jay]

poop

[peak halo]

!warn 833289298395922432 It seems like you only ever use this server to spam. If you send more nonsense messages like "poop", "skibidi dop dop dop yes yes", or "je je skibidi", you will be banned.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @vapid jay.

[vapid jay]

why is brain rot so strict 😭

[peak halo]

Message @severe widget if you have any comments or questions.

[vapid jay]

but ur literally here 👋🏻

[vapid jay]

why are yall not answering

[peak halo]

I'm going to mute you if you keep talking about moderation in this channel.

please give us time.

[foggy cosmos]

Hello, I'm a 16 y/o and a beginner in learning python. I've had the idea of becoming a backend software developer in python, what do I need to learn and what should I mainly focus on right now? I plan to also go to college for CS as well

[peak halo]

The most important thing is that you do well in school. Especially in math. Will you have taken any calculus by the time you graduate?

[smoky quest]

• Keep up the good grades so you can get into the college of your choice
• Build things and have fun. Discover what is possible out there. So make games, websites, mobile apps, compression tools, robots or even your own programming language

[pine sleet]

that's great! a cs degere is the path of least resistance and most oppurtunities for software development. your primary goal should be to do well in class so you can go into a good university, but you should also work on projects and build up your skills. brushing up on math may also serve you well, a lot of folks have trouble with their first semester math and cs classes

[peak halo]

and, ya know, you might not even get into the program if your math grades aren't good.

[pine sleet]

relatable

[peak halo]

(and if you get rejected from a CS program over your math grades, they're kind of doing you a favor. because you don't want to take on debt for courses that you wouldn't pass.)

[fringe sphinx]

Besides education stuff: have fun with programming: there's so many topics that there's no 'one way' to learn. Some people like game development, others like web, or discord bots, or robotics, etc. but, just keeping programming small projects and it will come together. Hang out in #python-discussion , and you'll find other people learning like you.

[silver jacinth]

you don't really need math in cs

[peak halo]

do you have a CS degree?

[silver jacinth]

I have to take linear and english then I graduate

[peak halo]

so you're a current CS student? what are all the math courses you have taken?

[silver jacinth]

yes since I have 2 courses left, which I am gonna take this summer

[peak halo]

I'm asking what math courses are required for your CS degree. Surely linear algebra isn't the only one.

[candid stump]

hi

[silver jacinth]

Applied Mathematics for Computer Science, Linear Algebra.
However I took an SN stream in highschool with physics and chemistry. That probably doesn't matter

[peak halo]

I've never heard of anyone getting a CS degree without at least two semesters of calculus. And then all the "pure CS" courses (ie, not programming) are theoretical math.

[silver jacinth]

calculus is optional but I did precal in highschool and that is stupid

[white relic]

what specific degree are you getting? is it a BS?

I've also never seen a CS program without calculus (I feel I'd find linear algebra hard to approach without it)

[silver jacinth]

its a 3 yr degree, basically what you do in uni but more focused on technical skills and a co op internship.

[silver jacinth]

I mean you touch on calculus subjects

[white relic]

is that a normal thing to do where you live?

[silver jacinth]

well yeah, this is our colleges sponsored by the government (quebec)

there are only cegeps and universities.

[white relic]

wikipedia suggests that the 3 year degree from "college" in Quebec is more analogous to an associate's than a bachelor's, which makes sense

[white torrent]

The most I ever had to do was a semester of “fundamentals of mathematics” that covered logic and sets, yes there was math involved in other subjects but that was the only wholly maths one I ever had to do

I will say though having maths skills definitely makes other subjects easier to digest even if their main focus isn’t on maths

[silver jacinth]

well, regardless of that companies consider both a bachelor's and a dec as the same thing

a bachelor's is basically the same duration 3-4 yrs, except you touch moreso on theory than practical skills

we had a girl transfer into our class in our 4th semester I think. She didn't know any of the stuff we were using and tried skipping classes, then stopped showing up. I am pretty sure cegeps are better than universities with 200 students in a classroom vs 20 students.

[white relic]

My comment and the quoting of "college" was not meant to disparage the system, although it may have come out that way.
"College" is a broad term and in the US it often includes university studies. Sounds like in Quebec it has a more narrow sense.

Regardless, saying you don't need math in CS seems at best grossly oversimplified given you will have been exposed to calculus and linear algebra plus presumably some algorithmic analysis and whatnot

[silver jacinth]

well what are you planning on using advanced math for? I don't need limits or matrices even when developing stuff and working with infrastructure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOCHTHkBoAs
like all this stuff is highschool math

you don't need anything beyond that, linear is the only thing new from math that I learnt but I only see the use if you're doing data science stuff

[white relic]

I didn't do CS, but I use plenty of advanced math in my day to day research.

[silver jacinth]

like what

[white relic]

is this an argument where I tell you an example of something and you argue that it's not relevant for most people and/or not real math?

because I'm not really interested in doing that dance today

[silver jacinth]

I am saying the majority 99% of people won't use it for their stuff

[white relic]

The best way to get into software for most people is a bachelor's degree in CS.

For most people, a bachelor's degree in CS will involve substantial math.

[silver jacinth]

they offer the same stuff

[white relic]

Maybe if you are in Quebec the equation is different, I can't speak to that.

[silver jacinth]

I am looking at concordia and it says the electives apply for their cs course math from our math courses

and software engineering doesn't even touch math in uni

I am pretty sure if I learnt all this theory as described on their program brochure, I would forget nearly all of it. Just like the theory from my program and from highschool

Just feels bloated

[white relic]

Good for you.

[silver jacinth]

cegep is not as well, but I am just saying that I feel like theory is pointless. I forget that kind of stuff since it is not useful

[fiery meadow]

make projects with the knowledge you're being offered with

[silver jacinth]

yeah and pointless studying doesn't aid anyone

[fiery meadow]

it's pointless because you think about it that way

[turbid merlin]

As long as you know about stuff like calculus and understand the basic principles you can always find a module that solves your problem tbh

[smoky quest]

That's more of a reflections of the role/projects being worked on than whether or not math are required

[silver jacinth]

Would you rather a game tutorial, or documentation for how to play the game?

[fiery meadow]

i prefer documentations

[white relic]

Both?

[astral geyser]

is there a best game engine for python?

[silver jacinth]

referencing the documentation?

[leaden folio]

where should i learn python from as i am new

[astral geyser]

im using this onehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfscVS0vtbw

[leaden folio]

nah

[silver jacinth]

when you play a game on steam for a new game, let's say bg3 and you never played a crpg before. Would you prefer having to go through each of the rulebooks to understand how to play?

[leaden folio]

im doing freecodecamp but its not even fun

[astral geyser]

it isnt rlly supposed to be-
like sure it can be, but its purpose is education, not entertainment

[fiery meadow]

i don't get your point

[silver jacinth]

I'll just say the majority of people would prefer an in game tutorial and that knowledge will stick in their minds. Larger audience, more retention

[white relic]

Both a tutorial and documentation, yes please, they serve different purposes and because you don't understand the purpose of documentation doesn't make it pointless

[leaden folio]

im finna kms cos i wanna do sumn new by learning python but its not even engaging to learn abt

[turbid merlin]

It's actually easier if you have a specific problem at hand that you would like to solve with programming

[fiery meadow]

you keep saying that you're not gonna use the math, but may as well grab the knowledge while you're at it

[astral geyser]

so find smt else idk, im js learning myself, take an online live course idk

[leaden folio]

may i get a suggestion?

[silver jacinth]

what's the point in memorizing formulas when you can just look it up

[fiery meadow]

since the "job" doesn't require it, doesn't mean that you should drop important knowledge

[astral geyser]

make a video game 🤷‍♂️
do like wordle but with a twist

[true harness]

the formula isn't the part that matters 😉

[leaden folio]

but idk where to start and how im gonna learn frm it

[silver jacinth]

but what I am saying is the pointless memorization in edu is the problem

[astral geyser]

-u learn how to make wordle,
-go to yt and search "how to make x game"

[silver jacinth]

our brains aren't made to remember everything, yet that's how schools operate

[leaden folio]

bro aaaaaaaaargh

[true harness]

in my 2 years at school, I have seen very few "rote memorization" needs. maybe this is indicative of something in Canada. my school is definitely not unique

[fiery meadow]

complaining about the education system does completely nothing for you, we all know that the education system is flawed

[turbid merlin]

I'm a structural engineer and I have made python scripts for all sorts of things related to my job. Today I made a script to calculate the tempereature of some steel members based on how they are insulated. Earlier I have made scripts to calculate the capacity of concrete structures. I have also made scripts that compare two drawings and highlight differences

[astral geyser]

i go to a private school cuz im special, so i dont have rote memorization

[silver jacinth]

hopefully because this is entirely stupid and I had to deal with it forever.

[leaden folio]

yo nice work man

[silver jacinth]

so you guys weren't given paper exams for coding though?

[fiery meadow]

study for the sake of math, you can find the use if you try

[true harness]

sure. that's not rote memorization at all though

[white relic]

If you think that theory is all memorizing formulas, I'm not surprised you find it pointless

[silver jacinth]

writing out code on paper, remembering syntax and functions exactly as defined

[white relic]

what does that have to do with theory at all

[silver jacinth]

same point, remembering stuff that is unnecessary

[true harness]

typically paper exams are a lot more lenient with syntax errors. that isn't what is being tested on paper

[turbid merlin]

Basically anything you can do with Excel can be done better with python in my opinion. And any problem that can be solved by following a step by step workflow can be solved with programming.

[silver jacinth]

but if you forget what a sorting function is called, then you're out of luck and have to overcomplicate it by writing your own from scratch in an exam.

[true harness]

never been an issue for me. I just write "sort()" and get partial or full credit

[silver jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/library-pile-books-dance-happy-gif-4486837

anyways that's part of the problem with edu imo. The other part is the whole aspect of grades, seems pointless. I can put in enough work to pass the course and know more than another person who crams their studying before an exam. I've never studied for a test in college, or hs for instance

[turbid merlin]

Memorizing stuff is not helpful, but understanding stuff so you can recognize things to look up is useful. Learning things like math is useful because it helps you understand how problems can be solved

[silver jacinth]

grading seems arbitrary. Not really a measure of one's understanding

[smoky quest]

How would you measure one's understanding?

[silver jacinth]

but that's how schools operate here, memorization is graded

[true harness]

take harder courses 👍. definitely makes you reconsider the not studying. it did for me

[silver jacinth]

how well they can explain their reasoning. In highschool I was in IB and we had to write long reports each project/test

[turbid merlin]

Where is "here"?

[silver jacinth]

quebec

memorize formulas for 20 different equations and all the steps you gotta do is stupid

in the real world you can just search it on the internet

Our population is apparently the most educated in the world, but our school systems strain our brains with so much stress

[astral geyser]

guys whats a good game engine if im using python?

[radiant vortex]

Formula sheets exist exactly for that reason. Also, they literally are testing your understanding by asking questions that get you to apply the knowledge you've learnt. You also can't avoid memorising stuff.

[smoky quest]

so still graded work, just a different kind

[true harness]

what's the relation to careers anyway

[silver jacinth]

python's not made for stuff like that

[astral geyser]

ok

[silver jacinth]

you should look at ue5, it is pretty easy if you stick with blueprints and C++ docs on epic's website

[turbid merlin]

I agree, but how are you going to know about the key principles if you haven't learned about them somewhere? I know there is some degree of memorizing involved in most classes, but I think that's because your average student is too dumb to understand the underdanig theory, and hence needs a reicpe to follow blindly.

[silver jacinth]

I had to memorize chemistry equations and a ton of theory in it, I completely forgot all the stuff I learnt. If you don't use the knowledge, you lose it.

We studied this guy who made something for crops and then changed to made the mustard gas, as well as the "seeds" for the nazis. I forget all about that stuff, yet I got a 90% in the course

grading is a pointless metric, same with memorization

[turbid merlin]

I used the thermo physics I learned 6 years ago today, when I made a python script to calculate the temperature of an insulated steel structure during a fire

[silver jacinth]

and today I can ask an ai to do all that for me

the practical skills come into play when you're adopting the code from that system, making it work

[radiant vortex]

you mean spurt out complete nonsense?

[turbid merlin]

I tried it, and I got nonsense

[silver jacinth]

import math

# Constants
thermal_conductivity = 25 # W/(m*K) - example value for steel
density = 7850 # kg/m^3 - example value for steel
specific_heat = 500 # J/(kg*K) - example value for steel
fire_temp = 1200 # Temperature of the fire in Celsius
insulation_thickness = 0.1 # Thickness of the insulation in meters
insulation_conductivity = 0.04 # W/(m*K) - example value for insulation

# Initial temperature of the steel structure
initial_temp = 20 # in Celsius

# Time for which the structure is exposed to fire in seconds
exposure_time = 3600 # 1 hour

# Function to calculate the temperature of the steel structure
def calculate_temperature(time, initial_temp, fire_temp, insulation_thickness, insulation_conductivity):
    # Calculate the heat transfer coefficient
    h = insulation_conductivity / insulation_thickness
    
    # Calculate the Bi number (Biot number)
    bi = h * insulation_thickness / thermal_conductivity
    
    # Calculate the Fo number (Fourier number)
    fo = thermal_conductivity * time / (density * specific_heat * insulation_thickness**2)
    
    # Calculate the temperature of the steel structure
    # This is a simplified formula and assumes a lumped capacitance method
    temp = initial_temp + (fire_temp - initial_temp) * (1 - math.exp(-bi * fo))
    
    return temp

# Calculate the temperature after the specified exposure time
final_temp = calculate_temperature(exposure_time, initial_temp, fire_temp, insulation_thickness, insulation_conductivity)
print(f"The estimated temperature of the steel structure after {exposure_time} seconds is: {final_temp:.2f}°C")

[white relic]

the really frightening thing is that people are probably using this approach to design steel structures right now

[silver jacinth]

which is why I said practical skills are better

[turbid merlin]

Yeah that won't work sorry 🙂

[white relic]

what's the over-under on how many years before the first major engineering disaster gets traced back to someone using chatgpt

[turbid merlin]

You have to take into account how the material properties (like heat capacity and thermal conductivity) change with rising temperatures, and you need surface to volume ratios etc etc

[silver jacinth]

then you use the existing code to build off of it whilst asking it for anything missing

[turbid merlin]

Basically you need differential equations to solve these problems numerically, so you need to take a more complicated approach than that

[white relic]

what you need to know in order to know the code is wrong is called "theory"

[turbid merlin]

Lots of trial and error, lots of GPT prompts, but you also have to understand what you are trying to do with your code

[white relic]

if you don't know theory, you just won't know it's wrong

[silver jacinth]

nvidia made NIMs, which allow you to train your own model based on documentation you provide

so you pass in all that knowledge and it'll retain that set of rules. So whenever you ask it for this information it can check prior examples for what's needed in the new project. All from a catalogue of prior projects

[turbid merlin]

Sounds pretty cool

[silver jacinth]

its mostly useful for medical stuff, based on what they showed in their demos for it though. Like MRIs and scans

[turbid merlin]

Please just let the AIs look at my X-ray photos already lol

It actually terrifies me to have a human look for tumors when AIs can probably find them more reliably

[silver jacinth]

idk but there's probably tools doctors are given for this stuff

[turbid merlin]

I hope so

[silver jacinth]

the new stuff nvidia is releasing just pushes what's already available afaik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHTSdd8-bnc

stuff like that

tbh I just want ai doctors, we got a huge shortage here and unless you're being followed its impossible to see a doctor

[white relic]

Personally I think I would prefer my doctor deduce a diagnosis, not generate one

[silver jacinth]

if you have a doctor seeing 10000+ patients a month, there's bound to be some slipups due to overworking. However, with an ai you can expect it to handle all the heavy lifting and leave it with the doctors to review. Meaning they can see a report and look over everything, not making them overwork themselves

[turbid merlin]

I don't have a lot of experience with AIs outside of Chat GPT, but what I notice with it is when I ask ot about something I actually know a lot about, it becomes apparent how often it just makes up BS on the fly

[silver jacinth]

its all basically statistics, just numbers at the end of the day

[white relic]

my bank account is just numbers, but I actually care a lot about it being the specific numbers that I expect it to be and not a best guess

[silver jacinth]

because inflation is transitory...

[static bone]

do u guys think it would be better for me to pursue a bachelors degree in cs (while i already have a bachelors degree in politics) or would it be more advisable to go straight for a masters degree? have to mention that im 28 yo and havent worked in any of the IT fields yet, but ive been programming for more than 2 years already and im planning to start applying to jobs this month probably

[silver jacinth]

its competitive rn

[true harness]

both are valid options, I think, but there are "transition MS" that are designed for non-cs undergrads that might be a good idea

could also see how you do with a few applications then decide then

[white relic]

If you have projects to demonstrate skills, no reason you can't start applying now and see how you get on.

[static bone]

ye ill do that, but was askin just in case

[white relic]

Ideally you would hope to leverage your prior experience in some way. What kind of work have you been doing since getting the first degree?

[static bone]

totally unrelated was a delivery driver (more like a mail collector actually) most of the time

[white relic]

Bummer

[true harness]

average politics degree

[static bone]

haha true

[static bone]

or more likely average eastern european, pursuing a degree and then going to work in germany (or anywhere in the west), lmao

[white relic]

Still, you could look for jobs at the intersection of your politics degree and computing. Don't know what that would be, munging economic data or polling statistics maybe

[upbeat halo]

yo is there any way to make python bot that will call for me play sound in the phone call and record what he says?

[white relic]

"Thiscallisbeingrecordedforqualityandtrainingpurposes"

[upbeat halo]

i want to make a fake bank bot for otp

[white relic]

(Regardless, not the kind of thing you can get help for here)

[vapid jay]

anyone know of good ways to make money if i have good knowledge of coding and coding languages?

[zealous grail]

maybe find a job as a programmer? sorry, I don't want to be rude

what's portfolio you have @vapid jay ? some github?

[tawdry sleet]

are you still hiring developer?

[peak halo]

you can't ask for jobs here. and that person was told not to offer.

[tawdry sleet]

i see 🙏

[true hatch]

<@&831776746206265384>

[marsh thistle]

That message is over 2 months old...

[true hatch]

Not my fault, you didn't do your job

[marsh thistle]

What job?

[true hatch]

being a mod

[true harness]

well, only a month and a few days

[marsh thistle]

I don't get paid. We're all volunteers. Anyway, this user has been addressed already.

If you have a constructive complaint about the way we conduct moderation, take it to #community-meta or @severe widget if it's specific to an incident/user.

[normal anvil]

Hi, im new to kaggle and ML, and ive just started learning these. I found a few udemy courses on these and i thought of buying them for the certificates
i just wante to know as to how valuable it is for me to buy the course just for those certificates, like does having these certificates really help me in my shortlisting process in interviews? im currently in 2nd year of my engineering in computer science so im asking this with respect to my college placements

[silver fog]

hi is there a universally recommended textbook for ML with python, I'm a physics + CS double major so im pretty confident with the math part.

[smoky quest]

certificates have no value for development jobs

[smoky quest]

It's better to ask in #data-science-and-ml and to look at the pinned resources

[normal anvil]

If u dont mind, could you elaborate on what u mean by development jobs?

[hearty totem]

I think recursive_error meant that many coding jobs care about your output not your papers. Some great coding jobs go as far as saying "Can you deliver the expectations in 6h a day? Great you got 2 extra hours of free time a day". Output and good attitude trumps everything else, even degrees and PhDs

(just note that I did slip the "attitude" word in there as well)

[eager sorrel]

Whats an ML job?

[white torrent]

A “Machine Learning” Job

[gritty rivet]

I would think the AI hype cycle should be good for the people who are actually qualified

[eager sorrel]

I am not that intrested in machine learning unless its associated with any form of transport

Although I own a 3d printer

true

[gritty rivet]

On the other hand it does seem almost like the only area VCs are funding right from what I hear. But you may be right that supply is greater than demand

[normal anvil]

Ahh mann, literally everyone in the place i stay dies for SWE roles so im like i dont wanna go in the same path and thats why im learning stuff apart from DSA(not interesting at all for me)

but they need to do a lot more right, i mean just coz they swe they cant land an ML job that easily or can they??

I see

What do u guys think as a fresher out of college, having which paticular skills would make me stand out? Any particular tech in mind?

v fair point

[normal anvil]

@turbid bobcat what do u think on this

Got it, THanks a lot

If im not asking too much, could you give an example as to how i could show that? You mean have a lot of projects on my portfolio?

[brazen island]

I'm being stalled for the senior ML engineer role I applied for lol. I think it's pretty clear - they have a better candidate they're advancing first to see if they'll take it. I can tell because they're off the schedule they'd reach out to me again for next steps.

It was a long shot anyway so time to just reach out too people in my network

No hard feelings though, it's exactly what I'd do if I were hiring

At the very least, it means you made the cut lol.

In my case, it's $datacompany that already has a lot of data initiatives that aren't ML/AI and they want someone with more seniority as their 2nd or 3rd hire there. It makes sense, although I'm skeptical that person exists lol

haha yeah, that's what it's approaching in my case (it's only been a week but they said they'll reach back within 2 days). Scheduling lunch with $partner at $bettercompany took 10 mins of LinkedIn...

It's a bit humbling but I think I'd have been in a tricky spot rn if I didn't have people I could call on

I have some theories but I can never know for sure

My theory is that

1. the market is definitely a bit worse than before. Even in Europe.
2. I'm a bit too late.
3. Most importantly, the majority of the ML roles are fishing for Gen AI experts and they're in very short supply since it's relatively new. I don't think they believe that the general ML / deep learning stuff I did is transferable. Especially the smaller companies that aren't as far into it. They give strong "Have you ever called OpenAI's api" vibes whereas the more established ones ask better questions / look for better cues

I'm certain #3 is a thing because recruiters are more interested in the gen AI photobooth I made for a big music festival (~ 1-2 weeks work) last year than the clinical trial, data platform and deep learning I did for the past 2 years lmao

[brazen island]

It's crazy - if you can do the latter you can definitely do the former but not vice versa

[white relic]

There haven't really been "normal conditions" since early 2020

[brazen island]

If I had known this were a thing I'd have knocked out more 1-2 week gen AI toy projects and rebranded myself as an "expert" 😂

[brazen island]

I'm joking because I don't have any interest in doing that full time but I still find it interesting to say the least

It's a hot take but "ML engineer that only calls openAI and cohere APIs" is the new "data scientist that only makes power bi dashboards". I'm not trying to gatekeep but both of them aren't interesting content wise to me so I'd never try and actively appeal to those roles.

well, depending on how desperate I start becoming

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, but I do find there's a few levels below that of understanding various (hf) models and how to optimize their execution and when to use them/etc. more than just OpenAI api but nowhere near 'research'

[brazen island]

It's a spectrum and that's on the interesting side of it, especially if it includes the things you mention.

Thing is, if I look at some of my cohort doing this right now in big brand consulting companies (mostly just making POCs) it's all just OpenAI (or bedrock) centric. I don't blame companies though, far less risk and a higher time to market doing this.

[obsidian rock]

This might be dumb to ask but if i wanted to start to learn how to code or learn python or to become a future software developer. Should i watch videos like full cs50 course or a random 12 hour video on learning python or should i use a website to learn it.

[peak halo]

@obsidian rock I changed your name to PythonDev. Feel free to change it to anything else that complies with our nickname policy in #rules (vertically large names are not)

[obsidian rock]

oh sorry

[peak halo]

anyway, don't just passively watch a 12 hour video. you will not passively absorb knowledge that way. whatever you use to learn python, make sure you're also writing code and practicing each concept.

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[obsidian rock]

would it still be a good idea to watch videos like Harvard CS50 – Full Computer Science University Course or should i just scrap it into things like u said

[peak halo]

you can watch those videos. but make sure that every so often, you stop watching and write some code that uses the concepts that you're learning.

if you get to part about lists, write code that makes lists, and combines lists together, and slices lists. get used to using all the features of the language.

[obsidian rock]

ohh ok thank you. ill keep this in mind from now on

[terse marsh]

Is there someone who is a bmajor and also a cse major and i wannted to ask what jobs do they get

oops sry for the ping

[vapid jay]

damn :/

[dreamy shadow]

What's a slightly more professional way to say:
"I wanted to check if you guys had a chance to check/work on XYZ"

They're unofficially reporting to me.

[regal axle]

Do you need to be professional?

I prefer informal communication. But if you need to be professional;

You can ask for a more general progress report on XYZ. Let them fill in what they have or have not done. Something more along the lines of "what is the current status of XYZ". Without knowing what XYZ is ,,, it makes it a little hard to provide exact verbiage. But also, don't stress about it too much.

[dreamy shadow]

I ended up using "everyone" instead. I needed something slightly less casual but not strictly professional. (I feel like if I used "you guys" in this context, I'll start sprouting rap songs next.)

[fringe sphinx]

Youse guys, if you're in NYC 🙂

[regal axle]

Depending on the company culture, you might want to avoid the term "you guys". But I personally am not a fan of companies that are that scrupulous with email wording.
The best type of email is very to the point. And yet some people hate those types of emails . Just gotta figure out what the company you are dealing with likes.

I wish I was allowed to just https://matt.might.net/articles/how-to-email/ all the time. But sadly not.

(strictly speaking, you didn't say you were sending an email. But the principles still stand)

[white relic]

I'm from the South so I can say "y'all"

[dreamy shadow]

Ah, I should have prefaced by saying it was a team's message and not email.

[terse marsh]

guys whats cookin'

[dreamy shadow]

I wish I could too, it's so useful. But team's offshore so they might not understand.

[terse marsh]

if it was unofficial

[true harness]

"what's poppin"

[fringe sphinx]

I believe for the current generation, the correct salutation is: 'sup, or the formal 'sup my guys

[gritty rivet]

"you", "you all", "you folks", "your team", etc.

[white relic]

In context "any of you" seems like it would work

[balmy mural]

I use a very similar in meaning, but more localized slang when greeting someone when hopping onto a call. All the communication within our team is very informal, but when communicating with any other team under the same company it's a lot more formal, regardless of the communication medium

[flint kindle]

Hi is there anyone from India ??

[peak halo]

Ask the question you would ask if someone here is from India.

[flint kindle]

I am in class 12th and I have taken stream as commerce ip

[tropic oasis]

i have a simple code that i dont get yall

[flint kindle]

I have good knowledge of python, nexths and web dev

[quiet cobalt]

how are you finding it? i've also been doing it but struggling with just copying the code from the video, going to try some hands on stuff myself to focus on each lesson

[flint kindle]

So I just want to ask what degree I should pursue from college

[tropic oasis]

"6. Write a program to print each item of a list called "friends" on a new line. "

the answer is
for friend in friends:
print(friend)

i still dont get it tho
what does this code do?

[gritty rivet]

This is the career channel. Try #python-discussion or grab a help channel #❓｜how-to-get-help

The code does exactly what you said it does... You might want to read about how lists and for loops work

[gritty rivet]

If you want to be a software engineer, then computer science would be the typical choice.

[flint kindle]

Ya but I don't want to study science and physics for that

[tropic oasis]

mb, i js typed down the code on python and found out i js couldnt understand what it meant by print each item on a new line

[white relic]

everybody wants a cushy desk job without having to put in any effort

[flint kindle]

It shows the output as :
f
r
i
e
n
d
s

[tropic oasis]

friends is a list

[peak halo]

@flint kindle @tropic oasis please don't do debugging in this channel. especially if it requires vertically-long messages.

[flint kindle]

Okh sorry

[tropic oasis]

yh im sorry

@flint kindle #python-discussion

[flint kindle]

Ya but I am now in 12th. Can it be possible to go with BCA and MCA

[gritty rivet]

You really do want to find someone in India because most of us have no idea what any of that is... I recommend looking on LinkedIn to find people working in the industry in your local area

[tiny crown]

hi i need help for discord dev portal

[peak halo]

see #discord-bots

[static bone]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[gritty rivet]

!rules 6 too @vapid jay

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> scam

[still condor]

!ban @undone turret go away

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied ban to @undone turret permanently.

[tranquil birch]

succinct

[pastel thunder]

had a call today with recruiter (not HR)
He said, since they have acquired a company recently, they have been asked by senior members of council to be careful about the budget and other people are also waiting.
He said, It could also take another 3-4 weeks as worse.

If this was the reason, I think they were lying when they said, approval is needed from 4-5 levels.

i f ed up by backup opportunitie's interview, and it feels like s***

Now, going by how things usually work, isnt the budget planned for quaters? If so, probably nothing can be done till july, right?

To put a little pressure, I told him that I am delaying my response to offer from other companies,
he said, I should join them and that way my notice period would decrease and at the end of notice period I can join their company.
(I asked this, to know if they will say:
I should take other offer / I should to wait for them a little more
But he gave an answer in between)

[balmy mural]

To clarify, are they saying you should accept a different offer, and then resign from that job when(if) they give an offer?

[pastel thunder]

he said, take the offer, while I am in my notice period( and while it is decreasing), They can offer thiers

can hiring freeze be lifted before quater ends?

off course

[lilac ivy]

I didnt know python is gay 😦

[pastel thunder]

I dont have other offer yet, I was just trying to know, what he says

[lilac ivy]

What pays more front or back end dev

[balmy mural]

I'd thank them for their time and move on

[pastel thunder]

If only I had that kind of leverage

[balmy mural]

It depends on the exact role and responsibilities, but on average, back end probably pays more

[pastel thunder]

can hiring freeze be lifted before quater ends?

[balmy mural]

Sounds like they don't plan on giving you an offer within a reasonable time anyway, so if I were in your shoes I'd cut my losses and find a different company

[lilac ivy]

You can do back end with python right?

[balmy mural]

You'd need more than just python, but yes. There are backend roles where the major language you would be using is python

[pastel thunder]

I can get interviews, but finding a better company is challenging

[lilac ivy]

Am i a fullstack dev if i know html css js and python?

[pastel thunder]

brand value matters for me, I am going to apply for masters,

[balmy mural]

I'd rather work with a no-name company with great culture than a well known company with terrible culture. I also don't know how your job would factor into your Masters

[pastel thunder]

its just the HR and recruiters 😢

[lilac ivy]

I was messin about with C++ and fucked my wifi up on accident

[balmy mural]

You'd be a fullstack dev if your job responsibilities covered working from frontend to backend
What languages you do or dont know doesn't define what role you're doing

[lilac ivy]

Had to get a new router and everything :/

[pastel thunder]

can hiring freeze be lifted before quater ends?

[lilac ivy]

I got my cert from sololearn

I do freelancing instead of working for companies

[pastel thunder]

stopped few days ago, will start again, but almost all well-known company have only approached me themselves
nothing happens If I apply

but then It would defeat the point of switching?
for me atleast

[lilac ivy]

Working for companies pay to little and you can make more from freelancing imo ngl i have a few people working for me to promote and stuff

[pastel thunder]

yeah

no, I have a job

[balmy mural]

If you currently have a job it also sounds like you do have the leverage to just thank them for their time and move on

[pastel thunder]

hmm, I dont know, what cooking,
for me, I will work with the team, which I thought was very nice people

[pastel thunder]

ok but what about this?

[balmy mural]

A hiring freeze can be lifted whenever the company wants to lift it

[pastel thunder]

lol, their delay aligns with their stock value
fiirst red mark tells then they delayed for 1 month
next one is when HR round was conducted and no offer yet

😅 i know, but could be, the council who put freeze, might be expecting the fall in coming days

[empty dawn]

Can some1 help me set up my telegram bot?

[fringe sphinx]

A hiring freeze generally is not a reaction to stock price but underlying economics

Like slowing customer demand, etc.

[gritty rivet]

Not here, this is the career channel. #❓｜how-to-get-help

[warm crow]

i am planning on applying for a year in industry doing computational chemistry as part of my chemistry course, but i think i need some better proficiency in python before i can get somewhere decent
not sure what kind of thing i should be doing like online courses or something different. does anyone have any suggestions of what i could do over around 3/4 months time?

[fringe sphinx]

How's your Python skills right now?

If your fundamentals are good, then I'd suggest small projects to reinforce your programming skills, and learning some data science tools. Kaggle.com/learn is a good starter

[warm crow]

im okay on fundamentals, ive done a section of my course already on python but nothing very complex

[fringe sphinx]

It's the same way you get good at anything: with practice. Actually writing code. Courses give you the tools, but now you need to use it.

!kin is one place for project ideas

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

You can also use sites like exercism and codewars for practice

[warm crow]

nice thank you ! ill check them out

[true hatch]

How do i enjoy school?

[smoky quest]

try to understand what are the parts you don't like and why you don't like them. There is a reason these topics are generally taught

[hollow kestrel]

How hard do you guys think it will be to get a computer science job in 5 years

[regal axle]

Either similar to today or a little easier. But impossible to say for sure.
Regardless, they will still 100% exist

[peak halo]

It's always going to be hard to get a first "computer science job", but I think CS will continue to be one of the most opportunity-ful degrees for the rest of our career lifetimes.

[summer roost]

!otn a cs-is-opportunityful

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: Added cs-is-opportunityful to the names list.

[regal axle]

My biggest fear is a supply one. The demand will always be high. But that is driving a massive amount of people to get CS degrees (well the money to be specific). And the rate of growth can be concerning at times.
Not that I think this is actually an "issue". And over time, the industry will corect itself. But I see a time in the near future where it is hard to get a job becuase of too high supply. But only for a short while. (How short is short, I have no clue)

[eternal summit]

I want to be internship ready for summer 2025, do you think it's best to focus on becoming a backend dev before trying to pickup and learn a niche?

[peak halo]

Please give your current "resume highlights".

In particular, one needs to know if you're currently a university student, and in what, and for how long

[tiny crown]

hi does someone has a server to invite me (don't care if you're owner or not)

[faint spruce]

What would be best degree be to become a software engineer?

[west jetty]

Bachelor's Degree in Software Engineering: This is considered the ideal degree for those aiming to become software engineers.

[vivid bramble]

Why Python supports

[pine sleet]

CS

[floral basin]

What laptop should I get for a prospective cs student?

[pine sleet]

anything will work, really

as long as it's after like, i dunno, 2010

[buoyant seal]

Preferably smth with at least 16 RAM as minimum today. 😄
And having SSD of size at minimum 512.
Videocard inbuilt into CPU should be fine.
Amd64 cpu architecture is recommended. (Arm64 processors are still very badly supported)

Windows 10 + WSL2 will be probably the most all around bet working for everything university will throw at you.

[brazen island]

I agree with the above, I'll add that if you can get 32GB ram at a reasonable price point that could be a deciding factor. WSL receives half your RAM by default so if you go down this route it's more like you have 2x 8 and not 16

[teal haven]

i need library management system in python

[tight garden]

Hey, will BCA be relevant in upcoming future?

[fickle sail]

how much python knowledge do I need to work as a freelance

[plush summit]

Would say 32gb ram for Windows 16gb ram for linux

[buoyant seal]

https://www.maketecheasier.com/configure-zram-ubuntu/
And that's not mentioning that we can double amount of Linux RAM in addition 🙂
By just "downloading" compressing it through CPU

[sly salmon]

I need some help regarding going forward.. and whether or not a degree would be worth it..

I'm stuck in a bit of a hole currently. because originally I was accepted to an university for a degree. this degree was also out of my home country.. eventually I had to come home after a year of studying so now I'm applying to an degree for computer engineering after I applied apparently my 1 year worth of varsity and what I was accepted on doesn't equate to a matric exemption in m country so now for me to get a matric exemption I need to go back to school do another random subject pass it and then apply 2 agsin from now that will be 2 years.. I'm not sure if I should waste all of that 2 years and money to do 1 subject and get my matric exemption just to get a degree or try to learn more and apply to a job ??

I do have quite a lot of experience in python.. and some experience in c++ and c#.. I'm learning ai for python right now but otherwise I'm able to create cross platform software etc and I've done some embedded projects too

[void hawk]

Hi, looking for someone experienced in pyhton (flask) and js, plain css and html helps as well. Please dm me for more details

[urban pulsar]

how to grabb token with python?

[gritty rivet]

I have no idea what varsity or a matrix exemption is, nor what alternatives exist in whatever country you are in. You may need local advice. LinkedIn is one good place to find local people in the industry.

If you want a career in software engineering, you should almost certainly get a degree. The idea that you were already in a degree program but would need two years of prep to get back on track makes no sense so hopefully someone can point you to an alternative

[gritty rivet]

Sorry but this is the career channel. #❓｜how-to-get-help

[sly salmon]

sorry a matric exemption is basically the uh "certificate" to say you passed high school varsity is university the reason why it will take so long is because somehow I haven't passed high school in my country... which makes no sense for me either..

[gritty rivet]

You were able to get into a university abroad without that, but cannot go abroad again? And every local university requires the same thing?

If there is literally zero alternative it may still be worth it. It really all depends on the options available to you, which we here know nothing about except what you tell us

[balmy mural]

Hey, sounds like you're from South Africa?

[sly salmon]

Yeah

[balmy mural]

What did you do as an alternative to the NSC/IEB that was accepted abroad, but not locally?

[sly salmon]

I did Cambridge

[white relic]

You know, there are a lot of issues with the US education system, but even we don't send full grown adults back to high school before they can apply to university because they didn't suffer through enough the first time. That is just so bizarre to me

[sly salmon]

Yeah I'm confused too... .

[balmy mural]

Did you finish IGCSE or AS Levels for Cambridge?

Or rather, how many subjects did you pass at A-level and how many at IGCSE level?

[sly salmon]

My schooling is a bit of mess because... the center I wrote at messed up one of my subjects so I was suppose to get 2 a levels but instead I got 1 a level and 1 as level I did 6 igcse subjects.. and at my previous university I did a foundation course to back it up.. but they wont count it...

[balmy mural]

This is more a situation of likely not meeting the requirements to go to university in country X after completing high school in country Y. Cambridge isn't the normal education route people take here and is a company offering a school education based on a different country's education system

[sly salmon]

Yeah.. what's weird is the university rank of my previous university was higher then the one I'm applying too
..

[white relic]

Sure, but that's not really any different. In the US you can apply to a different university if you don't meet the acceptance criteria for one. And even if you have no high school at all, it's easy to get a GED and take geneds at a community college. The phrase "meeting the requirements to go to university in country X" doesn't really compute because there are no US- wide requirements on university acceptance

I'm certainly biased

But it just feels like a weird trap for unconventional students specifically

[balmy mural]

Yea, unfortunately from my understanding, that would be the equivalent of just finishing one subject at matric level. The agreement our universities have with whoever handles Cambridge here is that you need at least 2 subjects at matric level. You should definetly see if you can directly speak to the faculty manager to try and explain your situation though, and if that doesn't work, you can try your luck at some of the other universities

[white relic]

South Africa is by no means the only country with a system like this, I was talking about it the other day with coworkers who came up in a European country

[balmy mural]

Alternatively, I know for NSC you can just go write the exams to get the subject without having to go to school for a whole year, although there's just 2 oppertunities per year to do that. I don't know if Cambridge offers an equivalent option

[balmy mural]

Universities can 100% make exceptions based on your educational background, we just have the general requirements normally for an NSC education or equivalent. Cambridge is an equivalent, but under certain conditions. IEB is also a different path to get to uni

[sly salmon]

Still don't get why they won't count my marks from my first university + my foundation I did .. but yeah that's why I'm thinking of maybe not doing a degree and just trying to get hired through my experience.. or I guess I could apply to another international university.. and see if I get in but that's also a cost thing

[balmy mural]

Unfortunatly it'll be very faculty based and unfortunately they can make whatever call they want. We have a lot of universities around that offer good CS degrees. You can approach them as well. You can also specifically have a look at BelgiumCampus since they're another international institution with their campus here

I would definetly suggest trying to get a degree if that's still an option. Going without one would put you on hard mode. A lot of doors for jobs would close.

[brittle prawn]

Hi guys ! Where can i get helped for my python program (csv file)

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion

[sly salmon]

Hmm alright I'll have a look tysm

[hearty island]

well
the guy rockefeller hired is way more qualified than me
finance and IT major
relevant risk analytics internship
i wish they didn't string me along

how am i supposed to compete against a finance and IT major is my question

why the , it's a good question

?

[digital frigate]

I think informing yourself and bettering your skills will help. But just do your best and it will be alright.

[eternal summit]

uni student studying information science and technology, my expected grade date is 2026 so im entering my 3rd year

[thin temple]

What subtopic of Python has the most freelancer opportunities

[little heron]

Hi there! Hope I can explain briefly the problem that I have, and I also hope that someone can give me a few tips and hints as to how to approach this:

I am 18 at the moment, graduated from HS half a year ago with a decent GPA of 3.7, I am doubting if I should go to university, since it seems like an exhausting path, especially for something engineering related.

I've used Python for a year and a half ish now, as well as C#. The general question here is; how should I develop my programming skills to a level where it can be applicable for a job? I am south american, so I am heavily considering getting one that is online, in a year or two more.

[peak halo]

you should consider this before you try to look for freelancing gigs: #career-advice message

[peak halo]

I don't know if things are different in South America (I'm in the US), but if they aren't, getting a CS degree is the best thing you can do to position yourself for a career as a developer. It's exceptionally challenging to break into the industry without one. (And I say this as one who wants to see an overhaul of the university system and general highschool-to-career pipeline.)

[thin temple]

I see, Am just not looking for a job, just trying to get find a reason for python, only readon came up with is to get funds for my projects

But thank you, I will just go down the path of ML

[peak halo]

I work in ML professionally. What is your goal for learning ML?

[thin temple]

Making an Ai, or understanding them, I really love the whole idea of Ai they fascinate me so much

My end goal as of now is to make my own Ai and teaching it to make a sub copy of myself, very funny but ye

I also want to use it to answer some questions that I am curious about, like do people personalities affect how they play games like rock paper scissore just multiple things

[little heron]

True, thing is that I really don't know how I could survive the 5 years required for computer science, sometimes it is even 6 years

[peak halo]

The years I spent working on my degree were very challenging. But unfortunately, unless you have the resources and fortitude to endure those years, your prospects for starting a "CS" career aren't very good.

[little heron]

Mhm

At the moment I am preparing 4 uni entry exams, so depending on the scores I will either go to a relatively decent university for CS or find an alternative path

[fringe sphinx]

Separate from education: developing your programming skills comes down to working on projects. Start very small, and keep coding. When you need ideas, ask for help in #python-discussion . The important part is to keep learning, a little bit at a time... don't grind. Just keep coding.

Asking for help is an important part of the process, because this is how you learn from other people with more experience.

[light flint]

Can anyone here to help me with python i am new to python

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion plz

[light flint]

wtf

[proper juniper]

Banned. lol.

[peak halo]

No one's getting banned right now. BillyBobby is just asking people to stick to the channel topics.

[haughty root]

Do you program for fun?

[haughty root]

Making friends and meeting people that work for a company you want to work for is probably worthwhile.

[brazen island]

@turbid bobcat the company that was stalling me decided not to move forward 👀 . They haven't even found the next person, some projects got scrapped and they're only looking for 10 YOE right now

All the other ones are progressing nicely though

That's why I don't want to take SWE roles

Can you land a data engineer position with some sort of databricks stack

At least there's a lot of transferable experience there if you decide to go for ML later

[vapid jay]

Data engineering is not a entry level position

Most data engineering jobs require you to be a T shaped developer

[brazen island]

False. I know dozens of people that started as a data engineer out of uni. On top of that, Mr. Kwisatz Haderach isn't a junior either.

[fringe sphinx]

This is all definitional, but: I certainly hire junior data engineers.

[vapid jay]

Was it during the covid boom or prior to that?

[brazen island]

Before, after and during

[fringe sphinx]

I hired one last year, straight out of school.

[vapid jay]

Strange. I have never seen any entry level openings on LinkedIn

I follow almost all fortune 500 companies for job postings

[fringe sphinx]

We'd probably just list it as a SWE position... to me, a DE is just a SWE specialty/role, I don't see it as significantly distinct.

ie: I'm a SWE who specializes in DE.

[vapid jay]

In my company data engineers are quite distinct from SWE. Our team is directly adjacent to business users. They give us use cases for data analytics and we fulfill them. Due to working with business team, we are given a much wider latitude in way of working

[balmy spade]

Unfortunate that your SWE teams are not also adjacent to the business users.

[brazen island]

Yeah here it's really a different world from SWEs

[solid salmon]

Hi guys I'm quite confused with my learning path and need advice from senior developers

I've recently learned Pytorch and not quite sure which direction should I move ahead. Should I first go for Deep learning with Fast AI and then to LangChain, LLMS, Crew Ai etc or if I escape Deep Learning with Fast Ai will it later cause me problems?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, the "E" to me convey's "SWE" first... otherwise, I'd call them a data analyst or a data scientist.

[vapid jay]

Generally in my org the SWE have a established hirearchy for getting anything done. You approach the product owner who will bring in the analysts who will explain it to SWE

The DE team work different. The business users can approach anyone directly and state their request. Then that person is alone responsible for entire end to end execution of that project

The nature of DE projects make it really difficult to collaborate.

There is not much you can do together when you are just getting stuff from point A to point B and changing stuff in between

A lot of our pipelines are not even code. They are just 200+ line of sql which do a ton of transformations

[balmy spade]

I think that's an unfortunate expense of at least three people's time. Product owners are great, when they are the tank for the team. But so many layers between the devs and the business just lead to "not quite what we wanted, make changes". 🤷🏽‍♀️ It wasn't a harsh criticism, doesn't apply globally, and is just my view.

[balmy spade]

200+ lines of sql sounds like a lot of code to me.

[vapid jay]

Not for data engineers. DE speak SQL like they speak their native language

If you want to scare a DE then ask them to write code with good SWE practices and test cases

[balmy spade]

Code is code. SQL is a language in that same regard as Python or any other. It needs to be maintained. It requires understanding it. It can have bugs. It can break. It is code.

Sounds like an interesting setup, regardless. :)

[balmy spade]

You can scare an SWE with the same ask.

[green night]

Man, I just got laid off from my minimum wage job because I wouldn't overwork myself to death on the very first week, so I guess now I want to put the Python I've been learning to some kind of productive use.

Been learning SQL too, thinking I could angle for a data entry job... But man, hard to shake the ever-alluring dream of the job you automate away without ever telling your bosses.

[balmy spade]

I'm not sure that's an accurate representation of what it is to work in technology. There is always work to be done. You build automation to find more automation needed. Things need maintenance. Your boss should always know.

[green night]

I mean yes I know. It's an alluring prospect, but frankly I just like tinkering with code so I'd be happy doing that TBQH

[silver jacinth]

wait for rates to go down

companies can't expand because jpowell is limiting growth to tame inflation still

[spring lodge]

Who's from India here?

[vapid jay]

I don't think we are ever going back to covid boom era

Most companies have stagnated

[silver jacinth]

more like market saturation

new companies can't get good rates for their loans too. Chances are the giants are gonna slowly crumble and new ones will rise up

[spring lodge]

bruh nobody here is from India ;-;

[vapid jay]

If their growth was dependent on cheap free money printed by us government then they deserve to die

[silver jacinth]

in CA, our rates dropped today, so the usa should follow soon

[fringe sphinx]

The market moves in economic cycles.

[vapid jay]

I hope you are correct

[silver jacinth]

USD controls the world basically

[vapid jay]

I missed the gravy train when everyone was switching.

[silver jacinth]

all sectors overseas use it for commodities, so its kinda a big deal

[fringe sphinx]

I remember sveral of these:

[vapid jay]

🤑

[fringe sphinx]

Just ask your question, people don't usually just answer where they're from without some question first.

[vapid jay]

God please all I want is a $200,000 FAANG job

[silver jacinth]

chances are that's never gonna happen again

[fringe sphinx]

If it has to be FAANG? Get in line. But, the jobs are out there for top engineers.

[spring lodge]

Alr i need help regarding the programming to start with in India

[silver jacinth]

companies are most likely gonna only hire 10x devs for 50k each like canada does. More companies are going to other countries for cheap work like google did laying off their python team

[true harness]

it's happening now and will still happen. people on my team make that