career-advice

[haughty root]

The only people that take things seriously are the military, from my experience.

[smoky quest]

then they should do it

[smoky quest]

There are plenty of areas with strict requirements

[vital beacon]

Does uni matter

[haughty root]

You'd think that...I've seen hundreds of installations in almost every industry

[vital beacon]

Where are you guys even from? Which country? Did you go to college?

[smoky quest]

Maybe canada is a bit more loose with their security.
But the USA has pretty strict requirement for security and network for their utilities for instance

[haughty root]

I'm in the USA and have seen stuff globally.

[balmy spade]

I did not go to college.

[haughty root]

lol utilities. Almost anything gov run is terrible.

[vital beacon]

And what does your career look like now

[haughty root]

Especially outside of huge cities. They lack funding and personel.

I've worked on prisons and jails. Mind boggling.

I went to college but dropped out @vital beacon

[balmy spade]

I'm currently working as a senior software engineer and incident manager for a fintech company with multiple hobbies outside of work to keep me quite happy.

[smoky quest]

nice!

[vital beacon]

No. What about truckers? Many don’t even know the hazards of prolonged sitting, fixed postures, repetitive motion, and whole body vibration. Then they get spinal disorders at 40 and can never work again. Same with other occupations like welding.

[smoky quest]

bro, non sequitur

[vital beacon]

How old are you? How is your company in hiring non grads? Is there scope in AI for non grads, who want to build something innovative?

[smoky quest]

the main issue for you is there is no shortage of grads who want to build something innovative

[strange nova]

Hurts me to read this chat but I guess it's good for me. Time to get back to it.

[smoky quest]

am pretty sure half of it is shitposting

[balmy spade]

Why would it hurt?

[vital beacon]

No. It’s actually very relevant. I just keep seeing the ignorance of people all the time. Education crisis in US? Oh let’s forgive student loans instead of creating a pathway to just test out. Same goes with occupational hazard situation. This is just 1%, if you notice what I do on daily basis, you wouldn’t want to live anymore.

[smoky quest]

testing out is not the way to solve the cost of education. Making cheap/free education is a better route.
And still completely unrelated to utilities

How we secure the means to produce electricity is unrelated to the trucker's issues with prolonged sitting

Sounds like the chewbacca defense

[vital beacon]

Why should it be there at all? What’s wrong with self teaching? What’s the difference between a live professor and a recorded one?

[vital beacon]

Because both are results of ignorance,

[smoky quest]

it's not as efficient or comprehensive

[smoky quest]

so is drinking too much coca cola. It doesn't mean there is a point in linking coca cola with the time truckers sit in their seat

[vital beacon]

It’s much more efficient and much more comprehensive. If one has any doubts in their reading, there are forums like this one, and the university could develop a subscription model where you could ask a PHD doubts, or private coaching, or anything.

[smoky quest]

to be fair, there is also https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12177943/Marine-vet-breaks-14-year-silence-make-astonishing-claim-six-man-unit-saw-UFO.html And I can definitely link it to the security clearance required for a trucker for them to be successful and sit in their truck

[smoky quest]

Exactly! That's why schools are so much more efficient with their phds, private coachs or anything you want to ask. Plus you do get to build a professional network

[vital beacon]

No. Drinking Coca Cola with comprehensive analysis is not ignorance. It’s just a rational decision where a person gives more weightage to immediate pleasure than some long term health risk. Everyone has different priorities and it can be totally rational for them. But truckers thing (Just one example out of 100 more situations) is totally ignorance and lack of analysis.

[smoky quest]

I hear you. And with comprehensive analysis, we could make the country safe and secure

We need truckers with comprehensive analysis so they can find the optimum seating position and timing

alright, enough jesting. thanks for the fun!

[vital beacon]

We can develop a manual. That includes dietary guidelines and as well as basic principles of physiology, “Avoid prolonged muscle contraction”, “Avoid repetitive motion to prevent arthritis” etc etc. “Wearing synthetic clothing leads to hormonal disorders”. There are just millions of things a person just doesn’t know and it makes no sense to have a comprehensive exhaustive list published.

[halcyon pike]

Two reasons: the current market doesn’t seem to favour anyone without formal education 2) technically self taught will probably enter the market at a lower rate and the amount of gap in knowledge will always put me at a disadvantage(this was an advice from a self taught software dev)

[vital beacon]

You have fun too. Goodbye,

[vital beacon]

2. That’s a symptom of “less taught”, not “self taught “

[strange nova]

I wanna be the best, get rich, etc. also I'm self conscious of not having a degree, and unsure of the future. I never actually thought that my life would change and I could be a semi-normal person again. I still default to thinking that my life won't change. I've seen a lot and figure that life is hard, and prepare for the worst.

I know you said "make your bad thoughts sit in the corner", but if I didn't think in reality, I'd have never done what I did. So reading this(the good parts)is like a dose of hard reality, it hurts but maybe it makes me stronger. For all I know, maybe I'm ignorant, I'm open to that possibility. I figured that there would always be some "gotcha" moment 😄. I have felt quite ignorant most of today.

[halcyon pike]

Makes sense, but even if one was to self teach themselves, the difference compared to a bachelors is just nuts (I would think) or even the time needed to self teach might as well go for the degree

[vital beacon]

Yeah mostly but To perform comprehensive analysis a person I supposed to have basic info first. You cannot analyze a thing you don’t even know exists. Nobody wakes up 3AM and googles “Risks of repetitive motion”. So there must be an initiation point, an exhaustive list,

[halcyon pike]

The years of experience might cut it but while you get there, isn’t it a nightmare?

[smoky quest]

maybe they should self learn 😉

[vital beacon]

That’s what I said. To self learn you need to be aware of its existence first. At least some clue. Knowledge doesn’t come out of vacuum.

[balmy spade]

It's good to keep that door open and read about other points of view. Even the shit posting ones. ;) It's a lot like anything else; there's so many different paths to a single goal. Knowing about more of them just gives you more options to take when you start walking!

[vital beacon]

Yeah, makes sense.

[vital beacon]

Who shitposted?

[vital beacon]

You can probably move out of winnipeg once you are done with red river college and go for a uni somewhere in GTA or BC.

[strange nova]

How I got here is just circumstance. When you start maybe you think "it won't take that long to get a job", also there was "I am practicing all day I don't even have time to look into college".
Then I got injured, and I was laying there writing on a notebook on the floor for 8hrs a day everyday. I never gave up for a single day.

Nowadays I don't even think I could have finished college even if i wanted to 😄

[smoky quest]

There is no one path.
You are taking a path of higher resistance, sure. But it's still a path.

[vital beacon]

Which country you from? Go for WGU.

[strange nova]

Thanks a lot friends! I mean it

[vital beacon]

I’m in the same boat man. How old are you

[halcyon pike]

I was actually thinking of transferring to u of m👀

[vital beacon]

That’s cool. Who cares

[halcyon pike]

Didn’t you just suggest I move to GTA?

Crazy world we live in I guess, cool

[vital beacon]

It’s your call. It’s all the same.

You are born in canada so it’s almost free for u isn’t it

[halcyon pike]

Ehhhh not really, they take our money

[vital beacon]

Not much though is it

[halcyon pike]

Compared to international students, we pay like 40% of what they pay but still

[smoky quest]

international students always pay the max. I would not use that as a baseline. I would use the local students as a baseline.

[halcyon pike]

It’s not bad, also we can take loans that are interest free iirc

[smoky quest]

yeah and with the comp. you can get, it's a non issue

[vital beacon]

It shouldn’t cost that much. What do they even spend all this money on

[halcyon pike]

Are you familiar with u of m comp sci?

[vital beacon]

no

[halcyon pike]

Who? International students or the college ?

[vital beacon]

The college couldn’t cost that much.

[halcyon pike]

I’m not even sure of the rates tbh, a friend told me it’s like 500 per course, but then they eat you with all the tech fee, gym, dental, etc

[vital beacon]

ok

[halcyon pike]

Are you familiar with Dalhousie uni?

[vital beacon]

i’ve heard of it. that’s cheap i think

[halcyon pike]

Yeah but it had a really good coop, apparently better than u of m

And not sure if this helps but they have a separate faculty called faculty of computer science, while u of m has comp sci under faculty of science and its crazily underfunded

[vital beacon]

I checked. it’s not cheap. You’re looking at around 40k-50k

[balmy spade]

Many do.

[halcyon pike]

Yikes

[halcyon pike]

Tbh I’m not even concerned about the finances, it’s how the program is known for its rigorous courses… with lots of mathematical theory and crazy wait lists for higher level classes. There is a local uni that offers applied comp sci which as the name suggests is more practical but doesn’t have a coop

I don’t know if an applied comp sci is better than the traditional comp sci 🫡 when working in the industry, does that theory really make a difference

[smoky quest]

Theory absolutely makes a difference.

But again, there are many many many jobs in the industry and it depends which one(s) you target. Not everyone needs nor wants to work at google X or brain

[halcyon pike]

COMP 3030 – Automata Theory and Formal Languages
Course Description
Calendar entry
An introduction to automata theory, grammars, formal languages and their applications.
Topics: finite automata, regular expressions and their properties; context-free grammars,
pushdown automata and properties of context-free languages; Turing machines and their
properties. Prerequisite: COMP 2080.

Detailed Prerequisites
The primary prerequisite for this course is reasonable mathematical background. Students
should feel comfortable with abstract mathematics and proofs.

[halcyon pike]

I think it’s late over here, I will talk with the advisors and see… thanks for the help tho!

[smoky quest]

Lots of these are useful when you want to make your own language or compiler. There are tons of jobs in these areas.
But it can also be extremely relevant the day you have to make your own DSL, even if your job isn't related to programming languages

And beyond that, it can also impart formal ways to approach problems, even if you won't touch these problems specifically

[wind python]

Help. People keep dying in CS

[fast fossil]

Bee Gees to the rescue?

so you can keep Stayin' Alive and all that

[fleet reef]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H_XUaxrna8

[ember vigil]

my personal favorite - another one bites the dust

[karmic loom]

Mine, too. That said, I find it a little, you know, ironic.

[vapid jay]

Read this : https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808 Getting rich is hard when your brain is incongruent. Making your bad thoughts sit in the corner is actually easier than you think and this book helped me do that.

[vapid jay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaMbeStGwig&ab_channel=KQueen

[quartz crag]

is it okay to learn two languages simultaneously? i am learning java and python at the same time and im scared it may mess up my concepts

[gritty rivet]

No, not okay, your brain will explode.

J/k... Sounds hard but you can try doing whatever you want and see how it goes

[buoyant seal]

🤔 for learning seriously after university, i would never go for learning both things at the same time 🤔
prefering concquering them one by one in ther best practices and ecosystem.
python and java are too much to learn them silmutenously essentially
I could understand if one of them was lightweight concept, but thy are both having a lot of depth

I like to make serious commitments for learning in depth to what i chose to learn.
Exceptions are existing though, some stuff i can learn just "as work" goes.

[buoyant seal]

if during university it is probably okay though.
Then earlier u try everything, then earlier u can pick what u like more

[buoyant seal]

majority of concepts are the same. perhaps learning both languages will help transcend earlier to thinking outside of languages
and instead thinking how to bend the language to do what u wish.
At most risk with learning both at the same time is not giving enough effort to learn in depth any of them i think

a good dev will take stuff that he knows worked best in one language and ecosystem and can apply in other one if necessary (as long as he is not doing completely anti patterns though)
Some stuff just can't work taken in one language to another one, but may work as long as extra tooling is applied.

also a matter of making code... in general readable for other devs of this language
but python and java are close enough, as long as u learn Python with healthy mix of Mypy/pyright in strict mode and read throughly to official docs if typing

[true hatch]

Is university fun?

[hearty island]

ig so, long as you enjoy what you do

[brazen island]

It gets more interesting the further you progress in my experience. The last few years when you're doing cutting edge stuff are particularly fun

[buoyant seal]

@frail cargo I gave a look to your projects and i can say next stuff:

• high amount of code lines, like 3000+ in one file and 9000+ code lines in general across the file indicate for me you got used to programming.
  • but seeing how all 3000+ in one file and make entire project that is a sign that u have some problems with structuring code. https://github.com/KazimFedxD/FedxDLanguage/blob/main/basic.py
• no unit testing
  • that is necessary skill to work with python in commercial environment as it ensures some minimal quality
  • unit tests validate at runtime correction of your code and also serve as self documentation how to work with it
• no static typing.
  • that is for doing work with extra credit.
  • that make your code validated to being correct beyong what unit tests can do.
• encountered some anti patterns in python ecosystem
  • git commited stuff that should not be git commited *.egg-info/ folder, pycache
    • that is indicator that best practices of language/ecosystem can be still learned.
  • using from interpreter import * is anti pattern leading to packaging confusion
  • high amount of except Exception as e: abusal, that leads to very confusing code to debug
  • lack of structured logging, only print for debugging. That complicates code debugging as well
• readme/documentation to projects is present very scarcely, but sometimes present.
• no CI code

I evaluate your level as common among Students, students code in same way somewhere at the end of a first year of university.
I would recommend entering university for CS degree, u are clearly believing in your strengths and capable to advance further in IT.

@frail cargo
What can you to fix stuff you have and advance further?

• u need to read some book about best practices in python https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Code-Python-Refactor-legacy/dp/1788835832 i like this one
• learn unit testing https://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Kent-Beck/dp/0321146530
  • https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Testing-Principles-Practices-Patterns/dp/1617296279
  • unit testing is essential in python to produce average quality of code
• ponder about better file/folder structuring your code. Fit this pondering with structuring files with tests (try them fitting along site with files as somecode_test.py. In some cases it is more valid having tests separately in tests/ folder though)
• read https://www.amazon.com/Code-Complete-Practical-Handbook-Construction/dp/0735619670 for a lot of stuff good to know how to code better
• learn using Github Actions for Ci
  • automate making releases into CI
  • or write instructions into taskfile.dev or makefile, and remove stuff that should not have been git commited
  • that will add self documentation as a code how to build/deploy project
• will be nice u learned throughly python typing https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html documentation and tried turning on integration in IDe and used it with strict configuration https://careers.wolt.com/en/blog/tech/professional-grade-mypy-configuration
• practice documenting projects more. with structured markdowns, or with sphinx (with autodoc!) or mkdocs, or diagrams as a code with mermaid.js , or even straight using draw.io
• after that will be nice if u learned more about code architecture and software development design and etc

That is in terms of code quality itself. as extra if u wish working with python, u should be having at least some projects more common in terms of tech stack people use for python jobs preferably. Not every project i mind you, but at least 1-2 should be showing example of your work with them

[true hatch]

how many words did @buoyant seal just write

[tardy sierra]

525

[true hatch]

holy cr#p

[zinc pecan]

@buoyant seal I know that was not meant for me but I will be saving what you wrote including the resources. 👍

[spare mortar]

I think it will go faster if you learn one well first

[frail cargo]

• thats excluding my most biggest projects which are private
• and the latest project i am using strict mode with type annotations and stuff
• Documentation i can easily add
• i dont know how to remove those files from git since i use vscode git version its complicated since its not CLI
• i Use Exception mostly when exception can be of many types or when i am feeling lazy i do sometime use Specific Errors

and yea i am 16 as i mentioned so a student

i will be pursuing CS in College

just gotta finish high school only got 2 exams left then after summer ill be in college

[zinc pecan]

I would say learning Ubuntu on WSL2 would be great, once you get used to it, it speeds up a lot of stuff (apart from making Windows executables from Rust 🙃)

[frail cargo]

i have arch

[buoyant seal]

i dont know how to remove those files from git since i use vscode git version its complicated since its not CLI

• there is awesome git visual tutorial to learn git CLI https://learngitbranching.js.org/ . it teaches to understand it visually, what happens during your commands
• there is official book to learn git https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2 that can be read after that
• removing commited files in git cli: git rm -f files

Git CLI will be always having the most functionality. GUI only implement it partially and adding some features on top to do visual stuff easier.
I will recommend learning CLI first because it will always remain with your through all Git GUI interfaces
Once u learn Git CLI, u will be only asking yourself, how to do this thing in yet another GUI if necessary and that's it

[zinc pecan]

Oh fair enough

[frail cargo]

thanks ill look into it

is there chances of me getting a internship or smth cause in my country there are not a lot of coders and i dont need much i am good with like 300-400 dollar par month of smth

i just need the extra cash since stuff is expensive here and earning early will look good on future universities aswell as it will help my parents

[buoyant seal]

Essentially among my points learning most important probably unit testing. That's the core thing that drastically increases code quality by 3-10 times and further
As it impacts healthily project in many directions at the same time

• You get increased self documentation
• you get protections against a lot of runtime stuff
• you get better code structure as a side effect
• you get better code architecture as u need to make it more testable for tests
• you get much faster feedback during feature development
• you get code that is much easier to improve and restructure (refactor), as u can quickly verify with test runs that it is still working or not after yet another change

Highly recommending investing yourself strongly in this direction.
With learned unit testing, you get way better grasp of code architecture after that and do the most essential stuff for project code quality
It can not be understimated value of unit testing, as it helps way better to scale code

[frail cargo]

i am converting towards that because i am now also using strict mode pylance which forces you into this

[frail cargo]

what about this. is it possible

[buoyant seal]

not from Pakistan, and did not go through internships. just finished uni, had part time system administrator (help desk support) job to help users with computers in university during my education (reinstalling OSes, printers, programs) and then after graduation got fully fledged programming job

[frail cargo]

well i want to start making money now and i dont know much about freelancing

ik its hard to make money as a minor but it is what i want

[buoyant seal]

highly competetive, a lot of people from low economy countries... well like India,Pakistan, Bangladesh pretty mich and etc. So a lot of competion
Besides that Freelancing is known to be... kind of the bottom of programming world in terms of industry experience. U will face commonly very questionable in quality projects.
At the same time if u have knack for it and willing to work with, i know a guy at junior level, that is able to earn with solving tasks having income like 25$ per hour and managing to get 800$ per month

just make sure u will not impact with it your university work and self growth if u will be doing that, try being reasonable. You invest into yourself.
Freelancing is kind of doing dirty job stuff

[frail cargo]

i dont mind like 3-4 hundered dollar per month its good money here but i dont want to do task i actually want to program makes programming maybe as in seperate projects or just with a company but i dont wanna do stupid tasks even tho that is good money but i dont realy care about money at this point, it will get me experience so when i get a real job it will be much better for me

[buoyant seal]

i talked with experienced Freelancer that worked with it 10+ years. Apperently encountering people that share code with Git repositories, or have Dockerization is super rare thing that almost never happen in Freelancing (And of course unit testing and static typing and etc is thing even more rare to be)

[frail cargo]

that i will make sure of since i alr do program so ill just spare the time of me working like 6 hours a day on progrmming myself it will be fine

[buoyant seal]

but i dont wanna do stupid tasks
that is basically freelancing. Teaching non tech people about programming, helping them to debug a problem (installing things) through having screen share and etc as far as i understood as junior level. Probably more is possible but u need qualifications for more, and as mentioned it is highly competetive

[frail cargo]

i get that but i said i will only do programming tasks but its hard to find

i had seen tasks like adding people to whatsapp for like 80$ but thats not really i wanted to do

[buoyant seal]

well. u need a good portfolio relevant to job tasks i guess. If u want doing frontend, you should showcase your skill in frontend stuff as portfolio
if u want people asking you to scavenge backend projects, u should showcase your backend skills
At the same time u will receive non related to it tasks like teaching about frontend/backend and etc, but u get the point. U need to maximize your chances of getting stuff u wish
Control your luck 🙂

[quartz crag]

If it's about learning one, well I have learnt C on a good basic level but yes I know it doesn't have the modern concepts of OOPs, Encapsulation etc. I thought of C++ but python striked my mind being an easier language for general purpose programming. So I skipped C++ for now.

[frail cargo]

well where can i most likely advertise or whatnot to find orders?
(wrong tag)

[quartz crag]

Which one could I go first with, Java or Python? I mean, something with which I can feel a little accomplished unlike with C where you only create basic projects and realise nothing useful.

😂 ah well

[buoyant seal]

hey. What do you have against Java 😛 one of the most used languages today for easy building quality stuff. The system is a bit oudated, but still modern enough and ecosystem is strong.
I am kind of regretting i did not became Java first. Having hard time switching from python after that

[frail cargo]

Java is good for like making minecraft mods and stuff

[buoyant seal]

for backend commonly used too (very big and mature ecosystem for that). and for android apps (native support! dominating langauge). with some stretch desktop apps can be done too

[frail cargo]

class HelloWorld {
    public static void main(String[] args) {
        System.out.println("Hello, World!"); 
    }
}

This for fking hello world

[frail cargo]

Kotlin is future for andriod development google is using it now

[buoyant seal]

firstly u can do it simpler in latest Java now

void main() { 
    System.out.println("Hello, World!");
}

Secondly that is not important feature for quality of life at all

[frail cargo]

still
Sysmtem.out.println("HELLO WORLD")

[buoyant seal]

so far i am seeing Kotlin as beta testing language for JVM world. They go fast and face mistakes first
And Java is now going in their footprint, learning from their mistakes and implement stuff to catch up in a more mature way
Kotlin is very experimental essentially and tied to JetBrains IDE
Sure, nice shoud be to try all the bleading edge features with Kotlin... but for more long term investment, Java looks better choice.

[quartz crag]

One could as well write in C or C++ a complicated code like this.

[quartz crag]

Nothing exists without a purpose, atleast in programming languages.

[buoyant seal]

it is not like u need println a lot anyway, good programs go with structured logging
and println stuff is a thing that is from time to time cleaned away

not really seeing impact from having long println. that are more important features to have
At least java has inbuilt unit testing framework that comes right with project setup

has at least something for dependency management, capable to run across multiple OSes/CPU architectures without rebuilding. Single artefact to run

Easy memory management (garbage collector for the win!). And fully static typed for safer and scalable programming

Sure, ecosystem is somewhat outdated and some stuff should not be used, but same can be said about python. Python is minefield as well in having different stuff that should not be touched.
So... i believe in myself in picking stuff to do a right way in Java

Most importantly also Java has a lot of job openings, and capable to work for backend, android and even desktop as mentioned.
there is demand for this language and u can do modern development with it. Support for it at the level of Linux, AWS, observability systems, infrastructure as a code tools and etc

[edgy lily]

So basically, I've been learning web development for the last 6 months. I've learned HTML, CSS, JavaScript, React, SQL, and Sass. I haven't mastered all of them, but I know a bit of everything and can make something .So, my question is, should I move on to learn TypeScript and Next.js, or should I wait and make my foundation stronger? My main goal is to get a job, either an internship or something, as soon as possible. Please help me enlighten me
or its good to both simultaneously?

[buoyant seal]

in reality if desire is doing backend development in like 5-10 years from now, makes sense to learn probably Golang 😄
This is already strong language with good ecosystem.
And with each year it will be only gathering momentum further. So in 5-10 years amount of job openings shoud be increased for it considerably.
A very good language

Java will not die in nearby 50 years though, it will be at minimum next COBOL.
So... still makes sense neverthelees, just because too big proportion of market and systems were already written in it.

There is very small amount of choices for doing backend quality development (with static typing and garbage collection) in modern Linux friendly way :/ like only Golang and Java.

Fair will be to say that situation with Kotlin may change in next 6+ years when it will come your time to start career. may be it will be able to win its race

<@&831776746206265384> scam industry

[still condor]

!ban 1227245500474851351 scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @ancient blade permanently.

[gritty rivet]

What's your portfolio like? If you have an excellent full stack React project already, then sure, learn those new things. If not, do that first

[dapper bane]

Making an anti cheat system for a company protecting them from softwares like game guardian how valuable is that for a company and how valuable is the person who did it ?

[signal gorge]

wouldn't that entirely depend on what game and company?

[dapper bane]

Assume the app has coins bought with real money ?

[signal gorge]

not the same an indie company for a singleplayer game that a triple AAA game with multiplayer

[dapper bane]

It's an app

[fringe sphinx]

Not sure I understand the question? Because the only possible answer is: 'it depends'

[dapper bane]

I told u the game guardian can change the coins bought with real money killing the concept of revenue

From the app

A person can have unlimited coins

[signal gorge]

if the owners care then it might be valuable

if not it isn't, only way I can think of knowing is asking them directly

[dapper bane]

What if it is valuable work but the owners don't think.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I'm just saying: it depends on a lot of things. Theres no way to answer that without a lot of specifics.

[fringe sphinx]

Value, ultimately, is what people will pay for it.

[dapper bane]

If the coin r used for real products

And someone heks it using a hex editor then changing the coins too 999999

[dapper bane]

Wdy think

[fringe sphinx]

For a game like valorant, anti cheat is incredibly important and a lot of money is spent on it. But, it's an internal engineering team: they don't (afaik) outsource this critical function.

For a low end game, there might be no anti cheat, but there isn't much money in them. So, perhaps in mid market, there are games that make enough money where anti cheat would be helpful to sales, but not big enough to put together a full anti cheat engineering effort.

[dapper bane]

Hey I wanna become a big dog in my company

[pastel thunder]

was thinking about this again,
would HR indicate in some way if what i ask was beyond their range?

it seemed like I lowballed myself, and HR was choosing a higher portion of my range.
And didnt show any disappointment or anything like that

or could it be that it is non of their business and recruitment team deals with this

[dapper bane]

How do I become a big dog in my company?

[smoky quest]

it doesn't mean anything. No need to overthink it

[balmy spade]

There are many ways and many different meanings of being "a big dog". One way is to build up the skill and value of those around you.

[fringe sphinx]

You're asking meaningless questions, tbh. To which, I'll answer the same way: It Depends.

[gritty rivet]

By buying it

[fleet reef]

Woof WOOF WOOF BARK WOOF

[kindred oyster]

do you want to go outside ?

[fleet reef]

No I’m teaching this guy how to become a big dog

[hasty juniper]

Hello, are there any jobs on this server?

[strange nova]

Not paid ones anyway, those are against the rules. Though you might help people with fun problems, if you like

[fleet reef]

!rule paid
There are not

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[fleet reef]

!ot

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[cedar moon]

all very true. im seeing the trends as well. java will still be very popular but go-lang will definitely replace C++ backends.

[vapid jay]

W pfp, goated

[still parrot]

isnt it from mortal combat

[vapid jay]

mapping is so goated with lambda functions, icl

[cedar moon]

The Famous Scorpion, yes.

Get over here! ~~~~~~~~~~> zing

[vapid jay]

boutta combo u with an a,b and c

[buoyant seal]

Nah. Golang is garbage collected language. It will replace only niche of Java, Kotlin, C# for backend at minimum.
If people need better memory management, they will use Rust i think. That's what they will replace C++ with

but C++ is rich ecosystem, it is more than just memory management. So in a nutshell nothing will replace it until better ecosystem will grow. Which will happen highly likely very much not soon at all

often people don't need memory management though of precise nature. in this case Golang more than enough as a "default language". As it actually does have memory managing features despite GC. at least it has memory allocations in bulk and controlled usage of pointers/vs non pointers stuff

[cedar moon]

I have no horse in the race. Whoever ends up being the best. Im all for it. C++ is horribly overpowered for such tasks.

[buoyant seal]

Kind of a question how soon stuff will mature in Golang/Rust to replace C#/C++ essentially

[cedar moon]

Rust? It'll be at least 7 years till we see real change imo. Google has started to use it for some android stuff but I havent seen it widely-used yet

[vapid jay]

c++ == goated?

[cedar moon]

It'll be awhile before site-reliability engineers adopt it fully

it kinda is but it's also stagnating bad. you need big brain people for it

[vapid jay]

I got a big brain, I can implement it

[cedar moon]

Sure. But you know how companies are. they want it done fast. and want to put people with you.

[vapid jay]

namespace Testing{
blah blah {
Console.WriteLine("Bozo")
  }
}

this is cs, idk c++

[vapid jay]

python is goated tho

[cedar moon]

It is. and extensible/modifiable python is coming. CODON python is an example.

I still think go-lang will find wide success. it is used at google in a strategic way, and many other companies.

[vapid jay]

what is, in your opinion, the most flexible and in-demand language?

[cedar moon]

lol. python obviously.

[vapid jay]

top 3?

[cedar moon]

that's kind of a hard question tbh. so many industries.

[vapid jay]

What kind of job do you work at?

[cedar moon]

I work in telecommunications

[vapid jay]

what role?

[cedar moon]

I'm just a network monkey rn

[vapid jay]

lmaoo, seems interesting, icl, goodluck bro

[cedar moon]

the job itself is eh. the company and people I love. I am improving my programming language knowledge to formally get a career in software development.

good luck to you too my dude.

[dire hinge]

Hi

Is there a network penetration group

[vapid jay]

Hello I am new to programming and I did try to learn Js at first and I had the mental block and couldn't go further. Any suggestions please on how were you able to overcome that!

[smoky quest]

Not enough data to compute.

[runic aspen]

Microsoft has started using it for lot of Azure backend.

[vapid jay]

hmm are you being sarcastic. I think I can learn coding and just didn't had right guidance.

[smoky quest]

I am not sarcastic.
A mental block is not descriptive enough. It could go from you being distracted, not enjoying it or all the way to being traumatized due to parents being killed in an alley after watching a movie and showing you javascripts books over and over

[gritty rivet]

That's why I I gave up on JS and learned Python instead 🤣

[smoky quest]

In short, it's like saying "it doesn't work on my machine"

[vapid jay]

hmm. your instances were very crude. don't know about that.

[smoky quest]

Is it a problem?

[summer roost]

what do you mean by "mental block"? and what do you think caused it?

[vapid jay]

the course told me to write a code for calculator. and i couldn't know where to start. and i mistakenly went from tutorial to tutorial it was frustrating and I stopped it altogether after going back on forth with course.

[summer roost]

going from tutorial to tutorial is a common problem that people have. I'd recommend picking up a book for beginners and following it from start to finish. There's a few good ones for Python:

• Automate the Boring Stuff with Python
• A Byte of Python
• Python Crash Course
  The first two are available free online

[vapid jay]

Thank you!

[buoyant seal]

definitely js/ts 😄 highest usage and flexibility. u can build with it web front, backend, desktop and mobile. Everything except probably embedded (at least i did not hear about it existing in this language)
Still not planning to learn it though beyond a poor level backend guy needs to know

[buoyant seal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=Uo3cL4nrGOk

[strange nova]

We will have embedded JS one day I think you can do shebang lines in JS

[smoky quest]

I believe it's more likely to be the other way around. Meaning transpiling to WASM or js to go around JS

python in the browser would be nice 🙂

[strange nova]

WASM- Rust 😻

[summer roost]

that's https://pyscript.net/

[smoky quest]

if they have solved the deployment problem, I may spend more time in this

[brisk cargo]

what’s the deployment problem

bundle size?

[summer roost]

it has a fairly high up front cost to downloading the interpreter - a few MB

but it's not as terrible as you might expect it to be, heh

[smoky quest]

The main issue is that every browser on the planet can handle javascript. Not so much for other languages/platforms

[summer roost]

it supports both CPython and MicroPython, and more people use it with MicroPython because the interpreter is smaller

[peak halo]

can that be cached if you visit several websites that use it?

[summer roost]

yep

[brisk cargo]

small price to pay for using python in the browser. at work we ship a 5mb wasm bundle and no one seems to mind that much

[buoyant sun]

Is there any #job channel

[summer roost]

we don't do any hiring here, no

I saw one of the... I think 3? pycon talks that were about pyscript. They were suggesting using it for interactive documentation with runnable and modifiable examples

quite a cool demo, though it's tough to see how I could apply it to most of what I do, since I deal so heavily in the extension module world

if you maintain a pure Python library, though, it seems pretty awesome today

[brisk cargo]

hmm why can't you use native extensions in wasm? how do they work on arm? do native extensions have to provide prebuilt binaries

[smoky quest]

not an expert but I assume it would kinda break the sandbox part

[summer roost]

someone needs to have done the work of pre-compiling the native extension for WASM - assuming that all of the features the native extension needs are even doable in WASM

[brisk cargo]

well you'd just compile the c to wasm, so no breaking the wasm sandbox. for pypy you can't use native extensions because the jit has its own abi (presumably?) but i'm not very familiar with how native extensions in python are built

[summer roost]

it's pretty much the other way around

[smoky quest]

ah yeah, in that sense, yes. Assuming it stays within

[summer roost]

you can use native extensions in pypy just fine, mostly - pypy emulates the CPython ABI

but WASM is a different compilation target, so whoever is distributing wheels would need to distribute wheels that have been compiled to target WASM

and that's assuming that every feature they need is available in WASM

[brisk cargo]

ah ok so the main issue is the prebuilt binaries. that makes sense

[summer roost]

I maintain a memory profiler that works by interposing calls to malloc. I'm not an expert on WASM, but I'd really hope that's not doable in WASM 😄

[brisk cargo]

i've actually implemented that at work! we maintain a fork of emscripten's dlmalloc and we profile memory by sending every malloc/free to js and then flush it to a file

[summer roost]

whoa, I'm quite surprised that's doable

I guess as long as you're only interposing mallocs from within the same sandbox it's okay, but still... hm.

[brisk cargo]

it's like ~sort of. once you're in js you can call Error.stack to get the stack trace. which isn't the best way to get the callstack, because it's pretty slow

to get sane performance in cases where we're near oom, we have to limit the stack depth, though usually you don't need the full stack to diagnose issues

[smoky quest]

I would be more worried about security implications. If you can mess with the memory of other tabs/sandboxes, that can have interesting implications

[brisk cargo]

security implications of sending data from wasm to js?

[smoky quest]

more like, if you can read the memory from any tab, that also includes getting access to that other tab from your bank account

that's why the sandbox is quite important.

Feels like we are back to the applets 🙂

[brisk cargo]

you can't read the memory from other tabs in wasm, and there is no escape from the sandbox except for the jit, which javascript already has

[smoky quest]

right, that's the point

[brisk cargo]

i'm not sure i understand the point. you just mean there's a larger attack surface for exploits?

[smoky quest]

That's alright. I meant to rebound on the point of the scope of the memory access.

I think we are both saying the same thing

[pastel thunder]

also, just found out few people who joined the same company directly in SDE2 role.
and few few more with similar exp as mine.
I think my profile is atleast just as good, can I mention this during negotiation?

Actually I was given JD of a SDE2 only but when I asked a week ago, they verbally said SDE1

[dapper bane]

the thing is I dont know if my boss is gonna keep me after the internship and I am a little worried man

and scared man

I am working as a fullstack mobile react native django developer intern + cybersecurity role

[white relic]

You should not rely on getting a return offer from your internship; even if it were guaranteed, you ought to use your internship experience to apply to other full time jobs and take the best offer that you can find.

[dapper bane]

Getting this internship was real tough idk If I can do this again I feel alone

[white relic]

Yeah job hunting sucks

But unemployment sucks more

[dapper bane]

I ll have 6-7 months of experience at the end of this internship

[white relic]

That's great! That's the point of an internship, to get experience you can leverage to get that first full time job.

[dapper bane]

I have never seen a reply on international remote jobs

I have only cleared Indian internships and jobs

All internships were remote

[white relic]

And?

international remote only entry level jobs are unicorns, I'm not surprised

[copper otter]

can someone help me please

[dapper bane]

what experience level should I start applying at them seriously ?

i ll just post my skills here

here brother these are my skills

ok but I have still mentioned them just to clarify that I know these skills

also bro wouldnt making a comma seprated list clutter stuff out ?

wdy think I am lacking if we talk about my skills

somethings got to be lacking right

i havent touched AWS

will I need to buy a server to practice it on amazon ? I did a course on kubernetes too but i dont use it in my daily life

okay i ll scope it out

ok i ll see so I ll know cloud too

but the problem is I am getting 0 response nada nil

there is only the projects and resume part except from the skills part give me a moment

it does not lead anywhere but my project

[uneven shadow]

at least where live people just want a straight, black and white resume and cv

one i like: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y7i_3NI2kddZMCkRHQ1Pl551aktKQ6Ye/view

[dapper bane]

I wanted to add my cybersec projects but they are all related to malware RATs, botnets

I dont wanna add some website or app projects they are common something uncommon or rare I have always though of doing this make it sound like ethical hacking but many people advised me not to do it cuz it looks controversial and illegal

i got a bunch of gamedev live projects tell me which one should suit our needs give me a moment

https://needjob-coder.itch.io/infiniterunnerrpgstyle how bout this one ?

i though recruiters did not like long resumes

is one more project really going to make a big difference ?

this is the project on the live link https://needjob-coder.itch.io/mazegameconcept

how is it

a little project i thought it would be a great idea

its a forgotten project but coding the logic behind moving the platforms took weeks

I know but this is all i could cook man . I ll make something better later on

I think we ll fill the empty space when this internship gets over

[fringe sphinx]

The project isn't the goal, gaining knowledge and xp is. Having a project for your resume is a bonus. Focus on learning and good things will happen.

[dapper bane]

I have implemented anti cheat and anti root, metadata removal from images, discovered vuln like ssh bruteforce attack, sesssion not working etc etc in this internship so far

how will this look in my resume

[fringe sphinx]

:shrug: write your resume and find out.

[dapper bane]

i thought u were going to help me

[fringe sphinx]

What help do you need?

[dapper bane]

I need a way to get international remote offer like i said

[fringe sphinx]

What do you mean by international remote offer?

You mean working directly for a foreign company as a remote worker?

[dapper bane]

yeah man i aint even getting shortlisted for interviews

[fringe sphinx]

Companies don't hire remote workers (out of country) directly, they hire through subsidiaries (local companies) in country.

If you have a resume prepared, you can share it here for critique. Remove your personal info.

[dapper bane]

I am already getting local offers

[dapper bane]

I already did

[fringe sphinx]

Link?

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, and what international jobs are you applying to?

[dapper bane]

here #career-advice message

[fringe sphinx]

I don't see this anywhere on that resume snippet.

[dapper bane]

I am saying if i add when my current internship complete

[gritty rivet]

You should accept one of those in the meantime. Trying to get an international remote job is almost like trying to win the lottery. The less experience and professional connections you have the harder it will be

[dapper bane]

I already have

but the pay is a little below average

[fringe sphinx]

It'll make your resume better for sure, like dowcet said: more xp is better, of course. Specialized / relevant experience is even better. If you're interested in cybersec, then maybe reinforce that with more cybersec studies (read, study, learn) or projects in the side.

[dapper bane]

all my cybersec projects are malware

[fringe sphinx]

Pivot. Use that knowledge for something good. A resume that shows focused interest / specialization can -sometimes- make a difference: make you stand out.

[dapper bane]

should I really put my malware projects onto my resume ?

[fringe sphinx]

I didn't say that. I said pivot to something good.

[gritty rivet]

You're fresh out of school? Then that's normal. Take time to prove yourself and develop a professional network. Experience is one of the most valuable assets you can get and nobody is going to hire you internationally without it.

[dapper bane]

its been 4 -5 months since I have been fresh out of school doing my second internship

[fringe sphinx]

If you can make malware, you could build an anti-malware project on GitHub. Or, write a blog post(s) about malware. Etc

[fringe sphinx]

Sounds like you're doing the right thing and you're on the right track. Take the best available offers and be hungry for more. Beyond that, be excellent.

[dapper bane]

there is competition between me and the other intern

[fringe sphinx]

It sounds like you're more worried and anxious than anything else. All I can say is: work hard, do good work, be a team player, and ignore the idea of competition. You're going to make it/do fine, since you're smart and competent.

Whether it's this job or the next one or the job after that, you'll have many chances.

[dense tinsel]

Hey guys , I have been working in a firm for almost 2 years where I started using python -pyspark to write code. My daily role includes adding code to the codebase according to the requirements...and those requirements mostly consist of joining data..or populate values in some columns and so on....even if i code in python on a daily basis i don't feel that I have proper grasp on the subject...I want to upskill to move to a senior software engineer role
... and I'm not sure where and how to start..can someone help me with this.

[fringe sphinx]

It's a common problem: often junior positions don't provide enough experience/growth opportunity. Just as college courses aren't enough, you need to challenge yourself with independent learning.

There's a few ways to grow outside of work, I suggest doing a little of all... not one: 1. Watch conference videos from PyCon and Europython for past two years. 2. Build projects that interest you, and try to adopt the latest practices, including publishing to pypi and using CI/CD. 3. Study the language itself: read the https://docs.python.org/3/reference/index.html. 4. Participate in #python-discussion and try to help people in the help threads: I learn something new every day.

[dense tinsel]

Thanks for the insight...will definately follow this ...one more question.what roles/pathways I should look up to.
.. for now I'm SDE ...i don't have any inclination as such...but with respect to current skill I have( SQL, a bit of Jenkins ..) I found data engineer role will be fine ...what else can I look into ?

[fringe sphinx]

Kaggle.com/learn is a good starting place for Python data skills

[dense tinsel]

Okay

[near remnant]

Is anyone here working or worked at a small startup before?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, why?

[near remnant]

Can I pm you? I want to ask for opinion and I dont think I can put too long text here

[gritty rivet]

Depends how much time you have to spend on that versus other things, how much time you've spent already, how much you care about one specific job versus others... didn't you already have multiple interviews going on at different companies? I would be focusing on those at that point.

If you're getting a good callback rate, your resume is good, don't waste much more time on it

Makes sense... I think I'd be be sending out resumes and not spending much time on them unless you really feel you could improve your callback rate substantially with more work

[fringe sphinx]

Just ask here, I don't like to dm 🙂

[gritty rivet]

There are probably many of us here and long questions are fine, just ask

[near remnant]

I have been working at a small startup for about 7-8 months, and so far everything has been going very well. Flexible working hours, fully remote, my salary is 50% higher than at my previous job, there's a proper code review process, I get feedback on my PRs, and I'm learning a lot. So, I can't complain, especially in this market. Although, sometimes it can be hard, because everyone is really busy, I have to find out stuff and solve things on my own most of the times, but it's ok for me. However, there's one thing that increasingly bothers me:

The company recently reached the end of the MVP phase, and we are currently waiting for our first user (a company) to start using our product. They will use it for free, and we will gather feedback. The company expects a lot of bug fixes, feature requests, and tickets from this. Additionally, there is talk of more significant developments, such as a complete backend rewrite, etc. They also want to hire a new developer in the fall to expand the team. Company has great funding and more than a year of leeway in case something bad happens.

However, when I look at JIRA, I see that everyone currently has tasks, but beyond that, there is nothing in the backlog or anywhere else. It's true that we've been working a lot recently, but how normal is this? Management said that a lot could be developed, but for now, we need to focus only on the priority tasks so that the user can start using the product as soon as possible. I'm a bit worried that there won't be enough work to do...

So, we had so many tickets to do during the MVP phase and work to do, I loved it but as we finally reach the end of MVP phase it seems there are almost zero tickets at the moment. I'm scared they will just fire me because of this.

[gritty rivet]

Sounds like a very early stage company. The risk and uncertainty in that is inherently high but part of the game. I wouldn't panic but if you're looking for something more certain and stable then you should be looking to apply elsewhere.

[near remnant]

No, Im fine with it and I wanted to work at a startup and everything seems fine Im just not sure about things in a place like this

So, I guess Im just overthinking it because I have this anxiety

[gritty rivet]

I would say, yes, it's normal for the work load to be very uneven in an early stage startup. You're building a plane while flying it. It's impossible to for everything to be smooth and efficient. Don't be afraid to ask questions and confirm that their cash runway is as good as they say it is.

And the more you have doubts, the more you need to have your resume ready to go in case the likely thing happens (most startups do fail)

[near remnant]

We develop based on milestones. The MVP phase had many milestones and we almost finished the last milestone.

What do you mean? Sorry i dont get your point

Oh yeah. The company is doing very well and been up and running for years now and the company is about to reach the point where the first customer will start using our product so we can gather feedback for 6 months

[gritty rivet]

And if for some reason they do need to that, with the kind of cash on hand you mentioned, they should offer a decent severance

[near remnant]

They said they dont want to fire no one because they dont want another developer to take 3-6 months to just be comfortable with the codebase

[buoyant seal]

We can say that regardless if startup will succeed or not, u will acquire useful experience anyway. You are winning in any outcome 😁

[near remnant]

Yeah, they also said they want to put even more money into development since we are going to pass MVP phase. CEO said the priority now is to develop and get bare minimum so first user can start using it so we can get feedback. And this Fall we can refactor, rewrite and improve / optimize the MVP product. I trust them because they probably know what they are talking about

[near remnant]

Do you think? Haha I hope so!

Yeah. We provide a product which is basically a platform which other companies can use

[gritty rivet]

I do agree with Darkwind's point there

[near remnant]

The company where I work at already got two companies who wants to use our product. One will use it for free and provide feedback for is. The other one will start use it later this year after the 6 months period of the first company. I hope it is understandable, English is not my first language.

Yeah, pretty much

So, I think the company is going to be in a stage where development is much more important than during MVP phase, no?

[copper tiger]

[2024-05-26 18:13:51] [WARNING ] discord.ext.commands.bot: Privileged message content intent is missing, commands may not work as expected.
[2024-05-26 18:13:51] [INFO ] discord.client: logging in using static token
[2024-05-26 18:13:52] [INFO ] discord.gateway: Shard ID None has connected to Gateway (Session ID: 38840c15ad5b67724d601c35c96e2fbf).
Бот подключился к Discord серверу: DumkaBot

Pls help

[buoyant seal]

😎 You earn your salary, you gain money. In case of startup failure you don't lose stuff as u did not invest things.

So regardless of startup outcome, u will come out of it richer and more skilled. Only wins 😉

[near remnant]

Yeah you are right.

[buoyant seal]

Just don't accept payments with future offering (beyond a single month time frame I mean). Have payments done right away.

And don't harm your health with overworking. Don't sacrifice your weekends for work.
Then u will be fine

Better invest in your skills in free time. Self study and do your own pet projects without any obligations. Then your qualifications will grow steadily further and u will come out of startup prepared.

[near remnant]

It just hard to accept that sometimes I dont have to work so hard. I usually work overtime on my own because of anxiety and when there is not much to do because of something I end up overthinking like now. So perhaps, there is nothing wrong with my current situation and my thinking is the cause of problems

[buoyant seal]

I work over regular time usually only because we have flexible schedule and I did not feel like I made 7-8 hours of effort.
Guilty I am of bad time management and trying to put all my energy into a good 8 hours.
Tbh if I feel like crap I could even just go for power nap for 1-2 hours in order to feel good and being productive

Like.. I am not paid to imitate work. I am paid to do work 😁
If after sleep in the middle of a day I can be more productive, then why not.
I will feel good with good health and will be able showing better result

[fringe sphinx]

There is a perfectly reasonable question of: is this company going to make it? Especially if they're just aiming for a single customer's feedback on an MVP. This is a tough topic because it depends on many things. How are they funded? How large is the company? What is their target market and goal? Is the tech any good or differentiated? Does the leadership have relevant industry experience?

[whole flare]

!rule ad

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[opaque cedar]

oh sorry, i'll delete it

[true hatch]

good

[true turtle]

Thanks

[near remnant]

The startup was created under a big company. Funding comes from that. The startup is small, less than 10 people. I dont want to get into details tho.

So we have funding even when the startup hasn't even started yet as profit goes

[fringe sphinx]

That's why I asked, I once worked for a startup that grew from <60 (when I started) to over 600 within 2 years, with big VC money. That was very different than another startup where we kept below 20 people for almost 10 years

[near remnant]

But yeah, the startup has fix monthly funding which goes to salaries. They have so much funding that the startup has developed 1+ years of leeway

[fringe sphinx]

At that point, it was more like a small company than a startup, I guess

[fringe sphinx]

Having the money is different than spending the money: in a startup, sometimes it's wiser to just stop than to keep burning cash.

My question about funding was more about what type, not how much. Angel, seed, VC, etc

[near remnant]

Honestly, I just hope I will be able to work here for at least 6 more months so I will have a year of startup exp. It should be easy tho..hopefully.

[near remnant]

Oh i dont know that. Im from UK though

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, I would t stress it. Even big companies have unexpected layoffs: I think startup experience is great.

[near remnant]

But basically the startup's funding is coming from the owner company which has an already working product which brings money in every month which goes to the startup. So basically no worries about funding

[near remnant]

Yeah, i talked with the management about this. They told me that we are reaching the end of MVP phase and "real development" comes now after the first user starts using it and we can improve everything overtime. What do you think? My only issue is that right now it seems that the number of tickets had gone down really so that is why I got scared

[fringe sphinx]

I wouldn't read much into it. It could be good discipline.

[gritty rivet]

Sounds normal

[near remnant]

Yeah I will just say fk it. Its not worth it stressing and overthinking about it

Yeah I have savings and all but I always fear stuff like this. I probably shouldnt

Im glad im here bcus I think it will look good on my resume

[balmy spade]

Not sure. I find it far more common for developers to be salary with limited to no additional paid beyond the contract. I'm sure mileage varies there.

[fringe sphinx]

In US, I've always been considered an 'exempt' employee: not eligible for overtime/etc. I've always put in extra hours, I don't work my 40 and go home. Even when consulting, I've tried to structure contracts so neither I nor customer are watching the clock.

[brazen island]

In my current role I do between 32 and 45 hours per week depending on my interest in what I'm doing at that point in time and the pressure

[near remnant]

Sometimes I cant stop working because I want to solve the problems 🤣

[haughty root]

I find this is normal for work from home and goal oriented roles. Work as you can/need to get the goal done by the deadline.

It can get you noticed by higher ups

[buoyant seal]

that's okay in my book too. it takes me long time to catch a wave sometimes.
If i caught a wave i could be actually overworking because i am 10 times more productive during this period, so it would be a shame to waste such time, but i will be slacking off more tomorrow or at the end of week and etc

[haughty root]

Get rich or die trying

Yes to get rich. Why go for anything less?

[fringe sphinx]

This idea is foreign to me. My success has been because of my hard work and risk taking. Doing the minimum or working to the clock is a good way to not break through.

[haughty root]

It depends on if youre counting on your career or have something else instead

[snow patrol]

lol?

[snow patrol]

die trying to feed a crocodile or just loose an arm

[near remnant]

I was like that for long and I had to realize I should stop when its the end of the workday

[haughty root]

Sacrifices must be made

[snow patrol]

i am full-time at 35h per week in germany 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

For sure. I just don't understand people who say they want to break through and want the big bucks, but also don't want to work any more than minimum.

[haughty root]

Because working hard is good

[brazen island]

The thing is, many people see working harder as an excuse to not work smarter. If you do both at the same time then it's great.

[fringe sphinx]

My quality of life is, well, excellent

[haughty root]

Is that normal full time?

[haughty root]

Lazy/entitled and/or delusional (e.g. every socialist ever)

[snow patrol]

no, i only have 35h because i work for a big company

[haughty root]

That's all they require or?

[fringe sphinx]

Oh I don't judge it, I'm just saying I don't relate.

[haughty root]

Pretend to be those things and you'll relate 😂

[snow patrol]

35h is default for software engineers at my company, its for having a good work-life-balance

some big companies do that (but not all lol)

[haughty root]

Cool, do you wfh?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, Europe (especially France and Germany) have very different ideas about work life balance.

[snow patrol]

what is wfh?

[snow patrol]

some people in germany want a 4-days-week... that probably would destroy germany

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno? There's some in US and some companies that advocate for that, 10 hours days/etc

[near ocean]

Why would it destroy a country to give people better life satisfaction

[true harness]

historically, 40 hours was an improvement over existing factory hours. it was a decrease

[strange nova]

40 hours is child's play

[fringe sphinx]

All my point in this was - I work my ass off, but not too much. And if I'm unhappy, I find somewhere that compensates me appropriately and doesn't abuse my work ethic.

[true harness]

yep. in my area there are a few, especially big companies, that do this

[brazen island]

I think there's a difference between the types that make work their personality and what BillyBobby is talking about though

[strange nova]

Yeah I said that about 40 hours in jest, depends if they work you to the extreme. I had a job once where I'd work so hard in three hours that I'd say "fuck this I'm done for the day" and burn stuff with a heat gun to look busy. I think we were working 60 hours there.

[smoky quest]

fyi, in France you are also exempt if you are in "management" layer or someone who comes in at masters level

[sullen yacht]

Someone can help me?

[smoky quest]

is it career related?

[smoky quest]

That wouldn't help because they are seen as SDE2 and you SDE1, which will have different bands.
So asking about their salary would not make sense.

However it would make more sense to confirm your level if it is SDE1 or SDE2.

it's completely different vibes.
Another point of comparison is that in EU, people rarely get equity as incentive, even for early stage startups. It's changing but haven't seen it mainstream.
The implication of that it changes the attitude about your employer. In the USA, knowing that your employer's value growing means you can get 6-7 digits $$$ coming your way is very helpful to align people with the goals of the company. But in EU, none of my friends have equity and so they don't care about the health of the company, just that they get paid and go home

Another point is also related to the freedom. In all the companies I have worked at, you are trusted to do the right thing. A bit like netflix's culture.
That means people gauge you based on your output and they understand that sometimes life happen and you may not show up in the afternoon, but would also stay longer if there is a problem. So it sorts of balance out

yeah, as I said, it's coming up. Not mainstream.
Did they talk about the type of equity, vesting period and % of ownership? I would be curious to see how it compares to US numbers

It's a different way to value you. When you change job, it will be more difficult to give you a chance on the N+1 title without having done it. You also have to rebuild your karma.
So different trade offs in terms of outcome

that's so frustrating

equity is great to align incentives. There will be more value generated by giving it to employees than trying to hoard it.
100% of 0$ is always less than 50% of 999999999999999$

<@&831776746206265384> looking at their history, they are only here to advertise

That's also a difference in culture between the US and EU.
The US is more accepting that there is no reward without risk

If I ask my friends in EU, they will be "call me once it's created and profitable". Whereas in the US, people ask me "Hey, if you ever start a company, call me"

sounds like you would have quite a bit of fun

wow, that's much further than most people. What is the outcome? Or is it still in progress?

[fringe sphinx]

Working hard doesn't often translate to increased $$ in the short term, but I earnestly believe it does in the long term

[near ocean]

It always translates to more work dumped on you

[fringe sphinx]

How else do you succeed if not by excelling?

[near ocean]

I wouldnt call it succeeding if your comp doesnt match your workload

[fringe sphinx]

For me, working hard translated to more career opportunity at a younger age

[fringe sphinx]

Not arguing, I just disagree.

[near ocean]

Working hard doesnt have to mean you get taken advantage of

[brazen island]

It's honestly just context dependent

[near ocean]

People might misunderstand if you say that
You shouldn't have to work overtime, you shouldn't have to stress about work after work hours, etc

[brazen island]

In my group of friends there's 2 stereotypical "hard workers" and one of them is clearly being taken advantage of while the other one will definitely get ahead because of it

[near ocean]

My group has both sides too, one that is allowing themselves to be a "slave" and earn nothing and another one that does the same thing and makes 6fig

You dont really have to do all that to have a successful career

[smoky quest]

It's far more nuanced than that. In general people get promoted because they operate beyond their level, not the opposite

[near ocean]

Yea that never made sense to me

If I worked for the promise of being promoted why wouldnt I work for free in the first place

It just sounds like an employer trying to squeeze more work out of me before I notice and complain or leave

[smoky quest]

Nothing is due. That sounds like entitlement.
While the employee does not work on the promise of being promoted, they do work under the mentorship and growth opportunities. That means they benefit from training, mentorship, and opportunities to stretch themselves until they are ready for the next stage.

Totally different mindset

[near ocean]

That sounds like youre ok with unpaid opportunities too, are you?

[smoky quest]

sounds like a non sequitur

[near ocean]

.

[smoky quest]

that's still missing the point

[near ocean]

People dont work for the promise of being rewarded

[smoky quest]

A contract is an enforceable promise in some ways

[near ocean]

Working over your contracted responsibilities for up to a year over the hopes of being promoted is not enforceable

And when people say "work hard to get ahead" this is what people understand, you should clarify

Just include the fine print, thats all

[smoky quest]

"what people understand" seems to be very different since we are having this discussion down to the weeds

What I am arguing against here is the default assumption that one should not do anything until they are compensated/promoted

I have seen that attitude and everyone who has had it was left behind

[near ocean]

Its just two messages
#career-advice message
And #career-advice message
People understand "working hard" as working overtime, straining and stressing, for the hopes of getting rewarded

You dont have to do all that to work hard, why cant you work hard within your contracted hours and responsibilities?

[smoky quest]

faster and greater impact

[near ocean]

idk what that means

[smoky quest]

more frequent impact, bigger impact

[near ocean]

Still not sure

[smoky quest]

Are you familiar with the concept of impact in business?

While it correlates, not a requirement

[near ocean]

You cant have impact unless you work unpaid overtime? That sounds like a skill issue to me

[smoky quest]

that's not the argument

[smoky quest]

if I write more python code, it doesn't mean you are writing 0 python code

[near ocean]

Thats literally the argument
You can work hard while sticking to your contracted hours/responsibilities and simply moving jobs periodically

[smoky quest]

and you can do even more things when spending more time at it (or spending it smarter)

[near ocean]

You could have more impact by forfeiting your salary too

[smoky quest]

not really

[near ocean]

Imagine all the business expenses you'd save

[smoky quest]

The point of me being hired is that I generate far more value than I cost

[near ocean]

You could do that + your salary & payroll
If youre going to say "work hard" you should mention that you mean you should sacrifice other aspects of life and also that you could have a successful career without these sacrifices

[smoky quest]

alright, it has reached the far end of the usefulness of this discussion.
We are all gonna be replaced by AI and UFOs anyway

I would not equate with difference of culture. Because that mindset is what leaves people behind and then they wonder why others get promoted. Seen it happened a couple of times

That said, if we were talking amazon warehouse type of jobs that are blue collar, absolutely

[near ocean]

We mention caveats on other advice, why be so absolute here?
Whats the problem with saying you can work your hours and go home and enjoy your life?

[smoky quest]

yeah, it absolutely is a different world

[smoky quest]

yep, and it's perfectly fine to work your hours and go home and enjoy your life. But then do not expect to have the same career path than people who invest themselves more and want to grow and learn at a faster pace.
There is no free lunch

not much different than people who want to skip college

[near ocean]

But you could have a successful career nonetheless with higher salaries than other professions and more flexibility than you'll ever need

[smoky quest]

there are always people in worse situation than you. Not a reason to lower the bar

[near ocean]

Not everyone needs or wants to be at the top

[smoky quest]

And that's a far more interesting discussion. There are strategies and tactics there.

[smoky quest]

@turbid bobcat feel free to press enter 😉

Might be an issue with framing.
I haven't encountered any company that does care about what you do in your spare time with your own equipment and that isn't directly linked to the company business. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but they ought to be the exception

You also have to define career advantage. That will mean very different things for an entry level engineer and a senior engineer

Right, but that would also not be very useful if your goal was to try to lead a team of scientists as it would involve different skills.

But to compete in terms of research, having something new and impactful can certainly have an appeal

[dense berry]

Can somebody help

[smoky quest]

Is it career related?

[dense berry]

Idk

[smoky quest]

I don't think you even have to interrupt it or lie about it

[dreamy monolith]

where can i ask for help?

[dense berry]

So im deleting exe file and its comes back after few days

[smoky quest]

It has nothing to do with career.
You should try one of the off topic channel

[smoky quest]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

yeah, you should look at career ladders and orient from there. Also working with your manager on the gaps they perceive

Famous last words until someone sees one of your tweet or at a conference or on a paper on arxiv.
There is far more to loose than to gain

[dense berry]

Is this official python server btw

[smoky quest]

this is nothing special. Plenty of people have side projects, side businesses, OSS projects or even frisbee clubs.
The main issue is how it impacts your job. And in 99% it does not and there is nothing to worry about

I don't deny your experience.
I just think there is more to it

There are also different levels of worries. Someone having a profit/non-profit will require a more delicate framing than someone working on an oss project.
and multiply that by 10 if you are remote

[true hatch]

Is Government a good degree?

[true hatch]

español?

Wey, no te dejan hablar espanol es este server

Estoy seguro

checa DMS

[dreamy spade]

Do people actually get a Microsoft subscription so they can update their resume?

[balmy spade]

Could you explain why a Microsoft subscription would be needed to update a resume?

[dreamy spade]

Well Microsoft Word is included in the Microsoft subscription and that’s how you create a word document with it

[peak halo]

you can just use Google Docs

if you want to be pro, you can do your resume in latex (which is free)

[balmy spade]

Ah. There are so many other editors available.

[dreamy spade]

Ahh. My resume was created in Microsoft Word before my subscription expired. Am I able to copy that over to Google Docs?

[peak halo]

Yes

[dreamy spade]

How many years of work experience in tech would you recommend one to have until they can remove academic experience off of their resume?

[haughty root]

5 years

[balmy spade]

If I had academic experience, I'd keep it on my resume. Not sure if there's a meta to that.

[dreamy spade]

I did that but the resume format is now out of place on Google Doc. I don’t know why that happened

[smoky quest]

I use libreoffice for my resume and as such do not require any subscription

[smoky quest]

You never remove your academic results. But your projects will certainly be superseded by the more interesting things you are now doing.

[fringe sphinx]

Never. Academic always stays on resume.

[peak halo]

for those with only a bachelors, and with industry experience, is there a duration of industry experience after which you would list their employment history before their degree?

[fringe sphinx]

I usually see employment experience first, and degree last, on most resumes. Especially those with experience

For new grads, it's probably 50/50 (first or last)

[true harness]

probably just an issue with converting the different features the two software have

[pale blade]

just be a new grad with no work experience, easy decision on which comes first that way 😎

[vapid jay]

Hello

[harsh remnant]

Bachelor of Arts in Computer Science or Bachelor of Science? My tutor told me in arts you take more arts courses rather than science ones like math, chemistry, etc… But you still take the same core computer science courses. I am just not sure if it might affect my career? Would jobs prefer more BS than BA? Or they don’t care?

[haughty root]

Employers prefer BS

[harsh remnant]

Damn it

It’s just the BS in CS at my desired university is very very competitive. I don’t think I can get in so I might have to go to a university that’s not of status like the one I desire.

[pine sleet]

they prefer BS as mentioned by having a CS/CS related degree from any accredited institution is far better than no degree at all

[smoky quest]

How much time are you actually gonna spend on your job. How much of a distraction is your non profit

[haughty root]

American uni or?

[brazen island]

Is there any worth in keeping your bachelor's on your resume if you have a master's or more? I like having as little on my resume as possible and that's an easy candidate to remove

[smoky quest]

It helps telling your story and showing the progression

[brazen island]

In Europe you get both of them right after each other though

[smoky quest]

same everywhere

[brazen island]

I kind of understand this in an American context, people take breaks between them

[smoky quest]

And dare I say, it's actually worse in europe given all the ways to arrive to it

[smoky quest]

this is not the norm, fyi

[brazen island]

Hmm, doubt it'll be a deal-breaker either way but good to know you're in favour of adding it

I also left out some things I did (that I have on LinkedIn) to keep it under 1 page

[smoky quest]

At your stage, I am sure you have far more interesting projects. So I would remove the school projects and details of the classes.
But I would definitely keep a line about the degree you got

[brazen island]

Oh yeah, I don't add anything about school projects and classes to begin with

[smoky quest]

after 3 years, 2 pages is fine

welcome to the adult club

[brazen island]

I'm in this weird place where I have 2 years of full-time employment but I worked part time during my entire master's, so if I add those I'm at 4+ YOE

[smoky quest]

In general, the YOE only start counting after your diploma

[brazen island]

Yeah, exactly

Fwiw they were after the bachelor's I didn't add on my resume 😂

[smoky quest]

In the end, it's about what you want the reader to learn

[brazen island]

I think this will be the last role I'll take in-person / remote in Europe, I'll start prepping from day 1 for a remote position in NA

[smoky quest]

I have never spent that much time on it

[smoky quest]

why not moving to the USA directly?

I know

but worth it

[brazen island]

Strongly believe the QoL, safety, general tidyness and so on in the EU is better. On top of that, my SO is tied to a PhD for 4 years

[smoky quest]

I would challenge these assumptions, but the SO being tied is a fair one

Or maybe it's time for the SO to complete their thesis in a university in the USA 😉

[mint oracle]

how do u work partime?means which job?

[brazen island]

She rejected an offer to do her PhD in McGill, Canada

[smoky quest]

I feel far safer in the USA.

Remember you are comparing whole continents. So I could also cherry pick any city in the EU

Unless you are in Marseille

[brazen island]

PhD life in the US is 0/10 compared to here, because of the pay. PhD students get a pretty high salary (she'll earn as much as I am rn) so you're not constrained to eating noodles for years

[smoky quest]

And they are great cities to live in!
They do also happen to have many neighborhoods

[brazen island]

Do you not have citizenship then?

[mint oracle]

I worked part time during my entire master's,
Can u tell me how to do u get I am also going for master this yr

[smoky quest]

probably depends on the topic. CS ones aren't that bad from what I heard

[brazen island]

LinkedIn and University job boards

[mint oracle]

i am also planing to start partime internship from 1st year of master

[smoky quest]

lisbon is awesome

[brazen island]

I think I stalked University job boards to find all the part time work I did as a student, all of them were degree related

[smoky quest]

Can't they both be awesome?

[brazen island]

I did a summer internship on top of that and for that I just cold emailed a prestigious company's partner and asked if I could do it, he said yes

[harsh remnant]

Canada

[mint oracle]

Okay can u tell me more specific like timing ,cllg time genrally 9to 3/4 is companies hires for part time internhip?

[brazen island]

Depends on your area and the job tbh. I think both of the ones I did expected me to work 2-3 days per week, I could choose when. I never went to class as a student.

[smoky quest]

good to remember for next time 🙂

[mint oracle]

I think it's difficult to find parttime internship becoz i am not able to bring some value if i am giving less time
But i will try!

[brazen island]

I did have one job as a student that was pretty much full-time for the first half of the semester if I recall correctly, but that's an outlier

[smoky quest]

it's also a lot more work on the employer side. So either they have an interest or personal interest, or you are a friendly (ie. son/daughter of)

I had a much better time.
The tram driver didn't like tourists, but we yolo it and had tons of fun. So I might be biased

[mint oracle]

Damn so i have no chance!

[brazen island]

I think you can still "deliver value" if you aren't there every day. It just requires more planning. For instance, I had to co-ordinate with the teams in Denver and Mumbai which is a bit tricky given timezones, you just need to think.

[smoky quest]

Try to think from the other way around: how do you make it easier for them?

[brazen island]

You need to bring something to the table yes

I don't know about you but I'm in data and there's a lot of low hanging fruit for part time work there where you come in as "the expert"

[mint oracle]

example?

[smoky quest]

yeah very different

[brazen island]

I was in a multinational that was starting many data initiatives. They had no real in-house people and it was the kind of thing that didn't need to be done Monday to Friday

Examples of other things I did was data engineering / data analysis for labs in idk sociology that happen to have huge datasets and no experience handling them. You're a student but you're also coming on as "the expert"

[smoky quest]

it's a great angle

[mint oracle]

I will try going to work on my skills next 2 months

[brazen island]

All of them were from my uni's job board

[mint oracle]

I will try python related job

[brazen island]

I think the biggest thing is that you can't ask anyone questions and there's big expectations that you need to manage which is uncommon for student jobs (or even junior positions)

[brazen island]

It's good prep for the real world though imo

[mint oracle]

i am thinking to apply for django and data analysis work

i created project in both only i need to revise all thing again

[frail cargo]

where is the best place to find these tasks?

[buoyant seal]

Common tech stack can be evaluated by checking indeed.com or linkedin and etc for job descriptions to job role u wish.
It has also often mentioned expected job duties.
optionally checking https://roadmap.sh/ is good too to get better view onto common tech fluff specific to job role
common job role tasks and on what to concentrate can be also discovered by asking people like here in this channel, what are common job role duties to their job role

if your portfolio will use way more heavily tech stack for its solution the same as job roles u wish, that will be more relevant projects for portfolio
that will be better proving your qualifications to prove that you are ready for them or not.

[frail cargo]

whats the best pattern/format for a resume and what should i put in it

[buoyant seal]

people (including me) are strongly inspired to look for Jake's resume as example to go for
https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs

[frail cargo]

Thanks, What else can i do which can help me get clients

[buoyant seal]

• get CS degree.
• get full time job experience for multiple years
• if your job role is related to backend, full stack, data engineering or machine learning, u could get official aws certification https://aws.amazon.com/certification/ . people even write it into job requirements from time to time as nice to see. (ultimately only certification that has at least some demand in job opening is worth its effort. Often only for cloud infra related stuff it is though)
• build portfolio
  • write good documentation presenting them
  • optionally have a site presenting the projects in a better way beyond what README.md can offer
• skills can be also indirectly shown through writing blog with articles
  • this path is optionally expandable to modern video based alternatives

[frail cargo]

thanks

[buoyant seal]

on the topic of portfolio in addition:
build stuff that some community really needs, that people wish to have but it is not present.
plan for projects that can show case your skill more, because they tackle a lot of minimal code and reearch effort to make it happen

optionally participate also in projects other people build, like open source.
thus u show ability to do team work and do stuff beyond your own projects

[buoyant seal]

ultimately, non tech clients will see for easy presentable things
how your works look externaly for the users.

tech wise clients will be attracted by portfolio/presentation in readme to see
if it is worthy to check further in terms of internal code qualities the product (how easy to continue development, auto testable and etc)

So depending in type of people, non tech or tech people, a ways to attract them slightly vary

[frail cargo]

ok thanks

[dense fiber]

I'd like some advice, so basically I've been trying for a couple of months finding work/freelance. I find a lot of listings and jobdesc to be intimidating to the point i just don't apply. How'd you guys get around this?

It is a mindset problem more than a skill problem probably but even on the latter i am not sure if I'm competent enough.

[brazen island]

Nice, have my first callback at 10 am Monday for something I applied for yesterday 👀

[smoky quest]

What's your gap comparing to your target roles?

[brazen island]

Yup but exclusively to established companies in the area

Maybe a different option would be to actually go to a company I said no to recently. They aren't doing a lot of ML engineering stuff which means I'd partly be responsible for building out that side of the business

The fear is that if they don't get those projects I'd be stuck doing boring analytics

But if they do and I do well I can grow way faster 🤔

[dense fiber]

im looking at these web dev roles (which are the most abundant developer roles) here, and I am just looking at what they're asking. Usually, if a work is described to me I would have an idea of the flow of how the work is going to be done in my head. But, looking at these descriptions I am often drawing blank.

what kind of resume do you send for roles you do not fit into? just the resume you've already tailored for the positions you want or do you just make another version

[smoky quest]

I mean, pick a specific example and try to work your way through it. You can also paste it somewhere and get feedback or ask question about what it means

[dense fiber]

will do, i'll come back later with ones I find a little hard to understand

so it's more a matter of breadth

how about education? I don't have a degree in SWE, which sucks, but I have been learning for a year and I have a couple of certificates + I'm currently in a govt course

what's an anon resume?

i see

oh you mean I post it here?
sorry i didn't catch it lmao

Speaking of framing things the right way. I also need opinions about what kind of portfolio is worth showing to employers. What exactly do they care about? In my biased eyes, there's only two or three projects under my belt that is worth showing

does YOE only include professional setting? e.g. you are paid by an entity to do the work?

[frail cargo]

can you check my resume and see if there is something i can improve in it?

[buoyant seal]

drop here in anonymized form for all people if u wish it being checked for input.
i have no desire or time to do such thing. Not a subject i am most interested in. I did not update my resume many years.

[frail cargo]

ok then ill ask someone esle

[buoyant seal]

when u ask people in general at channel. U ask input from any freely available person that has time and willingness to help you.
asking specific person to give help exactly you is kind of rude in ethics of such programming communities, because u ask for their time beyond when they wish helping you, and also u often ask for stuff they can be not even having information they wish to share in the first place. Some topics just float in people's mind and they wish to talk about them because they rethought their own position on this topic, or for some other reason.
So my advice, don't ping specific people for new topics, ask everyone. That's more.. efficient in terms of psychology and other stuff.

[frail cargo]

ok sorry i will not do that again

[brazen island]

Jesus, Microsoft got back to me the day after I applied with

"Please clarify how many years of experience you have in AI" 😂

I'm unsure if I should start counting all the internships and part time jobs I did

[true harness]

can't tell if that's good or bad. they liked you, but also can't read your resume 🤔

[brazen island]

If I count those I'm like at 4-5+

[buoyant seal]

😄 understandable since they acquired OpenAPI.
Although for me all this AI business is somewhat smelling with red flags

All the red flags in a single package.

ergh... looks like not bought directly but more like invested 10 billion dollars
and rehired OpenAI cofounders (and potentially other developers) into their company directly.
Partial assimilation/integration we can say

Considering that their Windows 11 and other stuff is full of this AI now
https://cyberplace.social/@GossiTheDog/112484435146025526
It is almost like if they acquired it to me

[brazen island]

Honestly, the role at msft was also quite boring. I don't think I'd take it, I just wanted to see how their hiring process looks like

Classified and classified 😂

All of these are plan Bs for the people in my network just hiring me

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, every now and then I'm tempted by a big tech role, but many of them hire very abstractly: they hire 'talent' and view the talent as fungible resources... whereas I'm interested in specific projects or opportunities

(Google is particularly known for this)

[brazen island]

I've rejected a few good places and I've done internships/projects in places that I left a good impression but didn't end up staying at due to my own choice so I always keep these in my back pocket if I want to leave (and stay in touch semi-regularly)

Pretty much. I signed one and reneged on it (with no hard feelings) in favour of my current job. I also do hackathons and the last one I won also gave an offer etc etc

[pearl veldt]

what would a resume for an entry level swe look like? are there any templates that are focused on skills and achievements?

(entry meaning 0 career experience)

[kindred oyster]

my very fist one was just copy paste the google docs that had the most clean layout without any graphics

i removed the work experience section and replaced it with education and projects

[pearl veldt]

i see, did that get you hired or interviewed?

[kindred oyster]

yes , hired

just make sure to not make it noisy , keep it clean and to the point

let me see if i find it

yes , something like this
a clean resume is good , no need to make it fancy with colors or too many fonts or stylish fonts or anything
the goal is to keep it concise and easily readable while highlighting the important stuff

[true harness]

internships, education, projects. in place of job experience you could have volunteer xp, open source, clubs, etc. any template is fine

[brazen island]

Pictures on resumes are standard hire 🤡 many places even have it as a mandatory field in their application form

[pearl veldt]

why

[fringe sphinx]

Jakes Resume https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs is often recommended, but doesn't show a zero experience resume. You might be better off looking at the examples on MIT: https://capd.mit.edu/resources/sample-resumes/

[balmy mural]

It's a very regional dependent thing though. If you're in a cpuntry where it's the standard, avoiding companies that require it might block off majority of jobs for you

[fringe sphinx]

I agree with you, but also Guitar is right. When in Rome...

[balmy mural]

I agree that it's pointless to require it, but not everyone can avoid it unfortunately

[brazen island]

I don't get it either, it's stupid but I do it anyway 🤷

[proud glacier]

How should I list my open source experience on a resume? I've been an active developer at one open source organization for nearly 4 years now. Right now I'm putting it under "Experience", but that doesn't feel right as it wasn't a paid position, it was just voluntary doing whatever interested me, and it doesn't really have a defined end date. It doesn't feel like it fits under "Projects" either, because it's not my project.

[true turtle]

you could have a separate section for Open Source
or a section named Volunteering
I'd probably put it in Volunteering
(disclaimer: I'm not career/resume expert, and I'm still a student)

[true harness]

i put open source projects into the project section, but i haven't yet contributed meaningfully to a large project that i wasn't a "founding member" of. so not sure how to do that

[proud glacier]

Thanks! I'll leave it in Experience then.

[brazen island]

Nice another interview scheduled and it's at my #1 place 😌 it's going really fast. Not bad for the first day.

Started my first real job in sept 22 but as mentioned I'd done a ton of paper time jobs and internships so if I add those it's like 5-6?

I don't know how the US market works, what the customs are when applying and so on so I'm skeptical. It's something I'd do for my next job

Like, leetcode isn't as much of a thing here so I have zero experience with it. I'd have to start grinding that and hacker rank

Anyhow, I'm curious how Microsoft will react especially after I choked my response so badly

Nah, I filled in their long form and answered all the questions and then I got an email that was like this

"Dear Zestar,

How much years of experience do you have in: AI
How much years of experience do you have in: Data

Kind regards,
Megan
"
😂

I misread the email and had to send two and I kind of turned the second one into a story which was stupid so I think this is gone

With story I mean, I should have just answered with literally 2 sentences. I think I had 5-6

I think they did

Very very irrelevant question to begin with but OK

[true harness]

so weird that they would just send an email, though it could be automated

[brazen island]

Aight let me just be more specific. The role was technical trainer or something funky.

In my current role I actually taught a course at a local uni about ML/AI because they wanted it to be hands-on.

If they actually go through my resume they'd see it's an optimal fit (one of the questions in their cursed form was experience in training etc.)

It's more a question of "do I want to be a technical trainer?" And the answer is a resounding "meh, not really"

I'm really just doing it for vibes, to see what the hiring process is at big tech and to see if my resume is strong enough

It's kind of a consulting role. It's helping customers transition to Azure, I think

Azure has a gigantic market share here (>70%) so it actually has a solid exit strategy, I could move to any msft shop afterwards but meh

That's why I'm applying locally (compared to remote in NA) hahaha, the grind is easier

Especially in Europe languages also matter. being trilingual is an insane perk

Many strange intangibles

Don't you need a PhD or at least a MSc for it

[hybrid shard]

is the chat real or botted

[analog sun]

If it was botted they would be obliterated

[hybrid shard]

is there any channel where can i get help instead of #1035199133436354600 , they dont even look

[analog sun]

We are generally wary of helping with selenium as it very easily goes against Terms of Service

[hybrid shard]

i am not violating there tos just need to see the reply , got stuck here for almost 2 weeks

[cinder fossil]

yeah, in the end its pretty much a matter of how many research papers you're on / prior experience (were you integral to some big startup's success)

i have a friend who is currently in a senior AI role despite 1YoE because that year was extremely productive at another company and they became a core part of the business with cutting edge models they designed and built

from a company's POV it's quite hard to take you on unless you do exceptionally well in the technical interviews. but screening tends to be an issue

[vague forge]

My python dreams are to become a software engineer at a FAANG company, e.x google, but i don't know their requirements. Does anyone here know their requirements along with tips?

[cinder fossil]

i'd definitely push for a publication prior to applications, it helps a lot with screening

bonus points if the paper source code is public alongside any relevant results/visualisation

good luck dude, it's pretty competitive out there. bunch of new grads this coming summer too

[cinder fossil]

depends on your career level. most common way is securing an internship by showing fairly good skills/impact on existing OSS projects/etc. my friends working in FAANG all had decent contributions to major projects like Firefox, or had prior work experience before applying and ended up passing all the screening steps. you will also need to be pretty good at competitive programming/systems design/etc, depending on what you're going into

getting in early isn't really necessary either, I know a bunch of people who broke in after working elsewhere for a long while

[tardy birch]

is it good idea to contact HR to reconsider me for Job profile (i got rejected today after technical interview)

[cinder fossil]

also the oligatory reminder that there are many other companies out there beyond FAANG that are extraordinarily good in various ways

[cinder fossil]

kind of an interpersonal question here, but id say there's no harm in trying. just asking if there's other available positions you might be considered for, and remember to be polite

[balmy mural]

What would the end goal be? If you were unable to pass their technical screening, I'd expect you to struggle with the actual job responsibilities and be a bad fit for the role? Are there alternative roles at the company you might be interested in instead?

[true harness]

why wouldn't you just apply to them

[tardy birch]

the interview was for MERN backend development, i did great backend concepts only thing is i've worked mostly with python stack, i did pretty good in conceptual part but later they asking tricky JS questions which i failed to answer

[true harness]

i thought NVLink died

[cinder fossil]

nah, still in use. we're getting a decent shipment of H100s with them

only annoyance is that NVL connected GPUs use a different driver to typical systems

are you more focused on research software engineering, like actual low level implementation of algorithms? or the actual high level training/model creation loop

since they're two entirely different career pathways and I can't tell what you personally are going into :P

ay nice, I'm also working in HPC

there's two main pathways but the way I see most is PhDs ngl

or joining a guest student programme at a supercomputing facility, like BSC (barcelona supercomputing centre) or JSC (julich supercomputing centre)

correct, but the equivalent experience required is usually pretty hard to get in this field without the second pathway (falling into a job that does this)

e.g. I met a few people at conferences who did that - went to apply for software engineer roles at companies like the met office, ended up falling into research software engineering and started writing distributed algorithms w/ MPI (fortran or C++)
or the better paid/more competitive pathway of finance

tldr building up the relevant experience through some company like that and only then moving on up is a completely valid approach. it's what my HPC professors did at university :P

also the referral game can be pretty strong too, especially from alumni from your university if possible

yeah, its a pretty underpopulated field so a lot of companies have taken to training up people not previously experienced in it if they're strong in other ways! that's kinda how I got my job, I had experience from university clubs managing HPC clusters which caught the eye of this company that I now work for

like I said, the way I see most is PhDs - as in, it's never an explicit requirement but most people in the field tend to be interested in research, get a PhD, and subsequently get a job in the field. survivor bias

[static pier]

anyone can help me with error in npm?

[fleet reef]

https://discord.gg/HxwhPemq

[cinder fossil]

I am also a biased sample, since most of my friends are in the HPC field and they're also the only ones who pursued PhDs :P

[static pier]

thx

[cinder fossil]

most of the opportunities they got weren't even advertised, but rather simply offered through conferences and other networking done throughout their PhD

eheh happens. it took me years to realise what type of job I wanted, and subsequently what exactly to search for on linkedin lol

good luck!

of course

I got my first tech job that way. just applied anyways without really being certain id get in and somehow did

[night zephyr]

good 4 u

[true harness]

it's a holiday in the US today

[brazen island]

Honestly, I think if you applied locally you'd have a same (or even higher!) callback/interview rate as me but for the reasons we already discussed it makes perfect sense you're going for things in the US

[strange nova]

Go Lisan!

[fringe sphinx]

Also, being a short week, many people take holidays this week. It's one of the busiest travel weeks in US

[vapid jay]

is machine learning all hype or will it actually be revolutionary?

[white torrent]

it's definitely an amazing technology - but it feels to me that there are a lot of posts on the likes of LinkedIn that seriously overhype aspects of it

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, it's already revolutionary in some ways, but massively overhyped. As with most tech, I'm expecting to be underwhelmed in a few years

Typical hype cycle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gartner_hype_cycle

[white torrent]

kinda annoying too that any programming related events i've seen over here recently are beating it to death even further

there's a bunch of hackathons i've seen where some genuinely innovative entries get overshadowed by a project that is just a giant wrapper over the top of an openai API

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, reminds me of the blockchain hype

[white torrent]

there's a lecturer at my university who actually does legit research on blockchain

it sounds cool, but as usual there's tech bros who aren't really sure what they're talking about that start preaching it once it begins trending

[strange nova]

Their research only goes so far as to figure out what shitcoin to buy 😹

[white torrent]

there are two types of people trading crypto religiously: idiots and the guys who are there to scam those idiots

it's bananas how much money i've heard of people making through those crypto "pump and dump" schemes

[strange nova]

Mh, maybe those who think they're there to scam will fall victim to a scam eventually. The exchanges make money all day either way at the end of the day

[white torrent]

wonder where all the guys who bought NFTs in 2021 are now

[fringe sphinx]

That's kinda my point: that there's legitimate value in these technologies, once you get past the hype of 'this tech will solve everything'

[white torrent]

aw for sure

[vapid jay]

Lol remember grayvee? I always knee it was a scam

[true hatch]

Is Governemnt/Political Science a good degree?

[fringe sphinx]

This is certainly the wrong discord to ask.

[gritty rivet]

Good for what goal?

[true hatch]

I don't know, politics are fun.

[true hatch]

Possibly being a political scientist

Or being like Jayoma

Jayoma is an extremely viral lawyer for setting a lot of "criminals" free.

[strange nova]

!ot anyways, I think should continue the conversation in offtopic

[inner wren]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[narrow void]

Ask for recommendation
Background : I am going to study financial-related degree in the university
I want to work in an investment bank in the future
So i want to study some programming related to finance such as data visuallization( i think ?)
Can anyone give me some advice such as what should i learn and what resources should i use
I am afraid that choosing the wrong teacher will lead to bad habbits and waste time
Thank you for all the comments in advance 🙏

[fringe sphinx]

I work with many finance professionals: they are expected to be able to complete basic programming tasks to manipulate data. Historically, this has been in Excel but nowadays, it's increasingly (slowly) in Python.

[fringe sphinx]

One finance person I work with is working on a data science masters degree, and the first course was basically all Python.

[balmy spade]

I imagine that datastrucs and algo would be quite valuable in practise for that field.

[fringe sphinx]

I'd suggest starting with a basic introduction to programming course (or self study) in Python. You need to get the basics first, then you can learn some aspects of working with data.

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe, but most of them really just focus on basic data skills: applying formulas and transforming dataframes

Im not sure how many of them will make it to DSA 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

More practically: consider a computer science minor at Uni.

[narrow void]

i think i will learn the basic Python first

[balmy spade]

I'm of the mind that learning one's way of visualizing how data works in programming is a vital hill. All the discomfort or uncertainty I work with my juniors through stem from a lack of that mental map for data. Variables are magic, data should "just be there" for them at the start.

I should buckle down and take a few early classes for dsa to see if it helps define that picture.

[fringe sphinx]

I think dsa classes are really more about thinking about algorithms than data structures themselves.

I wish there was more data topics in cs education

[narrow void]

do you recommend freecodecamp ? because i see it has a Data analysis course

[merry scaffold]

Anyone know the cloud learning platform that had docker, kubernetes, powershell, etc. in a flowchart format?
where you could learn them all

NVM found it - https://kodekloud.com

[pure berry]

I'm looking of going into quant development. Ive been looking at job posts. a few of them require master degrees (dosent specify anything specific)

Does the quant space require you to have master degrees or is it just a nice to have to stand out as a candidate. because there are programmers who got into the space without a degree at all. just through a project portfolio.

[smoky quest]

Getting in the space could be very vague. That could includes the janitor taking the trash all the way to the CEO.
If the ad states it does require it, it would be a stronger statement than recommended

But yes, it's a high pay and very popular area. Some companies do not hesitate to spend big to get the best of the best. So the competition will be fierce

[pure berry]

well im in the middle of my bachelors so i dont know how else to refer to getting specialised in a field through jobs 😅

[smoky quest]

Sure that's fair. I would suggest to max out all your opportunities. And masters do increase opportunities

[pure berry]

are you or anyone you know who specialises in that area that i could ask questions about this. the career service of my university is lacking severely

[smoky quest]

just ask here

[pure berry]

thanks will do

[pure berry]

my goal is to get to Switzerland through an internship. I've spoken to some of my lecturers of who went there and gotten their company recommendations but there arent many opportunities for cs. maybe it was for them back then. Any companies that you can recommend which offer internships. best if in quant development

[smoky quest]

We don't do hiring or recruitment

(I also do not know any company in Switzerland anyway)

[pure berry]

oh 😅
im torn if i should do a masters which a math focus with computer science or go in to data analysis. i guess with quant you can technically do either.

[smoky quest]

they can both be useful 🙂

[pure berry]

oki thank you

[pure berry]

this also seems to be a niche issue. Im in the UK at the moment. I guess not many dont go to switzerland or there is a general lack of interest.

[smoky quest]

switzerland is well known for its high pay. There is A LOT of competition to move there

[pure berry]

very true. wont lie i am going there for the pay but also i like the climate and nature of the place. I have a EU citizenship so it will be slightly easier

[smoky quest]

yep, it has made itself an attractive place in EU

[smoky quest]

Also, since you are still in school, I would suggest to not focus on settling down yet. It's the best time to travel the world.
So I would recommend to expand your search to other finance centers

Once you have a spouse/kid(s)/house, it becomes exponentially more difficult

[pure berry]

yea i am keeping that option open since i am not counting on getting that switzerland internship. Oh yes i will definetly be travel. there is too much to see :)

the thing with switzerland is that gaining citizenship takes a long time. so if it works out sooner rather than later.

[smoky quest]

With a british/EU passport, you already pretty good

I would focus on Shanghai/NY

[whole flare]

COL is also quite high in Switzerland is it not?

[smoky quest]

pay goes with it

[whole flare]

I suppose

You also get a complementary bunker for moving to the country /j

[smoky quest]

or live at the border in a lower country like France and then get lower COL and higher pay

[whole flare]

France is uh France

[smoky quest]

Freedom France

[whole flare]

interesting place indeed

[smoky quest]

It could be worse, it could be Germany

[whole flare]

🗿

[smoky quest]

indeed

[thorn mirage]

Hello, where I could learn Python?

[smoky quest]

Automate the boring stuff is a popular book

[civic acorn]

There lot of free recourses in internet, my personal opinion is that taking those is better to do first than reading books

[civic acorn]

I personally recommend you codeacademy.com

[thorn mirage]

I'll try that thanks!

[thorn mirage]

Btw, is there any Python documents for begginers to script something really simple?

[smoky quest]

That will be part of whatever curriculum you are following

[thorn mirage]

Is there one named requests library?

[smoky quest]

Wrong channel. See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[thorn mirage]

Okey

[smoky quest]

startups have lower base salary because:

• Potential for equity growth
• Equity is cheaper than $$$

it could go from nothing to tens of millions of $

Indeed. Valuing equity is a tough art

It's not worth a full dollar but it's not worth nothing either.

[sharp lark]

hellow

[smoky quest]

This makes things a tad more complex since it's not just about finding A job, but also A job at a company you believe in

And related to that, that's also why you do not value the same way a series A company from a series D company about to go IPO

[main pond]

Hello, Sridhar from States . Focused on Py (ML), CDK (Typescript & npm).

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 <@&831776746206265384> this is advertisement, as it has payment to receive link if u click it to see content inside

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[onyx swallow]

ohh sorry i have deleted the link. so can i just upload video?

[buoyant seal]

Not into #career-advice preferably. did u say it had pytorch?

#1035199133436354600 or #python-discussion should be good enough place for such stuff, optionally #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval, #ot1-perplexing-regexing , #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[brazen island]

Oof. One hour long phone interview with the recruiter done and it's the first of 3-4 rounds

[true harness]

how was it 👀

[brazen island]

It went really well - in principe. I think they're truly looking for a senior with at least double my YOE for this specific role but I get the sense that they:

1. Might end up hiring 2 people (incl. me because the interview went really well).
2. Might take me for the senior position if they don't find anyone better. This is actually a likely option.

We'll see how it goes.

The reason for #2 is that I think the skill set they're looking for is rare and if it exists they might go for some place else.

[crimson dust]

What kind of problem does the interviewer ask in coding interview? I've heard they ask Data Structure and Algorithm.

Yeah I hope so

I am trying to get interview cake full course

Have you ever heard of it? interviewcake.com

Oh really, I've paid for the interviewcake full course lask monday, but they did not reponse until yet

Yeah I really hope so

But anyway they didn't response and it seems I can't retrieve my money

Can I ask a question? Is Leetcode 75 free and how can I get the answer of each problem?

Ooops. Queue and Stack are really different, aren't they?

Yeah I think so. I think Array is the basic for DS

Where can I find the community? Do you mean this?

[fiery meadow]

there's solutions tab next to editorial

[crimson dust]

Yeah thanks

[crimson dust]

Yeah got it. Thanks

Ok. Got it. Then how are they different Leetcode 75 and 150? Just different the number of problems?

Yeah. Very interesting. I got it. Thanks for your very kindly help. See you again

HaHa. That's the most important point. Once we prepared, landing an offer will be no longer a matter

I wish your good luck

[brazen island]

👋 at least they were fast

press ❌ to doubt

I choked my response to a basic question and they probably use some basic thresholding to screen (based on YOE)

[vapid jay]

Got asked in my interview today whether I believe the global warming is real, that was something...

None. 0 context. Just hit me w/ that after asking basic HR questions lmao

[brazen island]

that's a red flag lol, at least for me

[white relic]

out of context, that sounds like someone just has a personal issue with climate change deniers and decided to bake it into the interview process

[vapid jay]

The entire start-up is a red flag though, couldn't really get any information on what they do since they're in some "stealth" mode

[white relic]

lol.

[vapid jay]

Also, what's up with interviews being so long? Cumulatively a 5.5 hour interview for a 6 month internship,,, for a startup they won't tell me anything about. Gee.

[white relic]

they're trying to filter down to candidates who are desperate enough or naive enough to jump through all the hoops without asking too many questions until the scam is revealed

[vapid jay]

They've been in buisness for 7 years, it's so weird

[gritty rivet]

Secrecy is shady, full stop

The startup I work at is great but for a long time the interview process was just way too long and slow. The whole C-suite wanted individual interviews with every entry-level candidate for absolutely no reason. I'm glad I made it through the gauntlet, and I'm glad they finally learned to let go a bit. It helps that we have a full time HR person and a full-time engineering manager, neither or which we're here when I started

If they were secretive about what they do and who they are, it would be another story, I would have moved on and not put up with so many interviews

[fringe sphinx]

I worked for a startup like that, ceo wanted to interview everybody. I was the type of candidate the ceo didn't want to hire but did reluctantly: and, I don't know how to say it without sounding arrogant, I ended up being a very good hire (taking on a leadership role, etc)

[fringe sphinx]

That I find ridiculous; more hours interviewing an entry candidate do not yield a more successful candidate.

My opinion: hire fast fire fast.

(I know it sounds shitty)

Some companies hide everything, first mover advantage and all that

[warm aurora]

how does one send a discord dm in a bot

[peak halo]

This is the career discussion channel; see #discord-bots

[gritty rivet]

Obviously they aren't going to show you their code base before you've signed an NDA. But there should be a whole lot to say about what they do, how they operate, who their customers are, etc. without revealing trade secrets

[pale mango]

just dm them?

[worn token]

hi is this the place to ask for guildline ?

I have a Computer Science background but lack programming experience. I'm interested in data science so could you recommend what course should be done. Suggestions for hands-on projects to gain practical experience and any additional tips for transitioning smoothly into data science would be very helpful. Thank you for your assistance.

[snow patrol]

he literally said that

[south forum]

hey mods, there are a few pdf roadmaps that my university keeps sharing which i feel will be very helpful for a lot of people here

is there any channel where i can send em?

[snow patrol]

are you sure that that wont be a copyright issue?

[gritty rivet]

There's not a public link?

[gritty rivet]

If you can find any data scientists who graduated from your CS program on LinkedIn, they would be the best people to talk to

Kaggle is one key place people go to find/share DS projects

[south forum]

nah it wont

[south forum]

there is but where can i send it?

[plain vector]

After I started learning programming I am losing interest from my academics and that is very bad cuz this is the last year of my high school and I also have an entrance exam which is hard as hell.

What should I do?

[gritty rivet]

Here

[gritty rivet]

If you want to program professionally, then you want to get a CS degree from the best university you can. So keep those grades up and do well on your exam!

[hybrid sage]

Ngl this bad market is making me lose all hope and just switch to another domain.

[balmy spade]

What bad market?

[hybrid sage]

people arent hearing back from the interviews. People do 4, 5 technical interviews only to be declined

and entry level is oversaturated

[pastel thunder]

does it happen like,
there are 4-5 people in final round, one candidate is the best but asks more than the second best candidate,
will second best candidate get hired?
Considering Fortune top 100 companies (I know small are very likely to do that)

[balmy spade]

You mentioned a domain. Which domain are you pulling these views for?

[hybrid sage]

oh yeah, I mean change from IT to another industry

and views is people saying their experience

[balmy spade]

So we are talking generally, without a specific domain in question. Yes, things are not 2020 right now. The hiring market is far from the worst it's ever been though.

[hybrid sage]

Don't need things to be 2020. It just needs to be stable and for everybody to have a chance to start their career. People got homeless over this

What other industries has a bad market tho??

Is that why people get hired as a retail worker or go into computer engineering? 😂

[balmy spade]

These aren't directly connected threads. People go homeless each day, regardless of the market. The housing market is shit right now. Absolute trash. Nothing to do with the technology employment market.

It's important to gauged how things are framed. Is it harder to get a job in IT today than it was four years ago: yes. Is it impossible? No. Is it worth is? That depends on you.

[balmy spade]

I worked in retail for 25 years. Now I work in technology. 🤷🏽‍♀️ Weird world.

[hybrid sage]

Eyy, good job. I'm gonna be a student this september. But all this talk is making me demotivated. Really considering learning something else besides software engineering

[balmy spade]

You aren't just learning software engineering. So you have that in the bag already.

[fringe sphinx]

Lots of people change majors or change interest. Always been true. What you think you want at 18 is often different than after Uni.

[hybrid sage]

Mhm. But this generated after the 2023-2024 job IT market.

[balmy spade]

I'm a ways past 18. Still don't know what I want to be when I grow up. Gonna try something new in the next year. Keep it fresh.

[fringe sphinx]

No, it didn't. It's always been true.

[balmy spade]

Pick one thing. Go do it. Then pick another. There's no rule against it!

[fringe sphinx]

What's the word for it? Recency bias?

Does the set of everything include the set of nothing?

[balmy spade]

Yeah. Recency bias with splash damage of confirmation bias.

[hybrid sage]

Me too lol. Everything seems nice. Only rule is that it needs to be well paid and sustainable

[balmy spade]

Thanks to modern day internet, anything you look up can be confirmed!

[balmy spade]

Yes. Proof: If you want to do everything and focus on how to do everything for long enough you eventually do nothing. Hence nothing was a part of the set of everything all along.

[fringe sphinx]

Chance favors the prepared mind. - Pasteur

[hybrid sage]

Do you guys say this because you already have a job and you have alot of YoE? I feel like everybody heard about the layoffs. Even my friend who doesnt care about IT says about it.

[fringe sphinx]

Why do you think the layoffs occurred? Genuine question? I have my opinions but want to hear yours

[balmy spade]

The layoffs were big news. It's hard not to hear about them. Didn't impact 100% of technology. Doesn't change the fact that jobs are still out there needing to be filled. ((heck, we were hiring while laying off at one point))

[hybrid sage]

Overhiring and high interest rates

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, and isn't it reasonable to expect that to level out/return to some normal?