career-advice

[pale venture]

!e print("e")

[inner wren]

@pale venture :white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

e

[pale venture]

!e await ctx.send("hello")

[inner wren]

@pale venture :x: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 1.

001 |   File "/home/main.py", line 1
002 |     await ctx.send("hello")
003 |     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
004 | SyntaxError: 'await' outside function

[pale venture]

!e import os

def print_all_files(directory):
for root, dirs, files in os.walk(directory):
for file in files:
print(os.path.join(root, file))

print_all_files('/')

[inner wren]

@pale venture :x: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 143 (SIGTERM).

001 | /home/main.py
002 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/moduleobject.h
003 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/ceval.h
004 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/pydtrace.h
005 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/typeslots.h
006 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/datetime.h
007 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/pymath.h
008 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/frameobject.h
009 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/pystate.h
010 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/pyconfig.h
011 | /lang/python/3.12/include/python3.12/floatobject.h
... (truncated - too many lines)

Full output: too long to upload

[pale venture]

!e
file_path = '/home/main.py'

with open(file_path, 'r') as file:
print(file.read())

[inner wren]

@pale venture :white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | file_path = '/home/main.py'
002 | 
003 | with open(file_path, 'r') as file:
004 |     print(file.read())

[pale venture]

!e file_path = '/home/main.py'

with open(file_path, 'r') as file:
print(file.read())

[inner wren]

@pale venture :white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | file_path = '/home/main.py'
002 | 
003 | with open(file_path, 'r') as file:
004 |     print(file.read())

[pale venture]

!e import os

def go_offline():
os.system("killall python3")

go_offline()

[inner wren]

@pale venture :warning: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

[No output]

[pale venture]

!e print("e")

[inner wren]

@pale venture :white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

e

[brave cove]

What

[umbral frigate]

@pale venture #bot-commands please.

[pale venture]

sorry

[fringe sphinx]

Are you in university? Tell us a bit more?

[acoustic phoenix]

yeah im currently in undergrad, 2nd year. Currently in a cs course

[gritty rivet]

Then no need to specialize if you have no particular reason to. Plenty of time for that later.

[white relic]

I think the sample size is just too small tbh

Unless you sent out a lot more copies of the January version

The time you send them out is a confounding factor

[vapid jay]

I'm curious to know which all domains Python can be used in. Currently Python is the only language I know.

[peak halo]

it's pretty general-purpose. system automation, back-end web development, and AI are probably the main ones. But even if you know Python, you can't simply start doing AI without learning lots of theoretical concepts that have nothing to do with programming.

[vapid jay]

Ik ML is a subset of AI but how different are the both of them compared to something like Data Science. I'm a student and so far idk what interests me

So I'm stuck between learning a new language to go into some other domain OR learning theory concepts of AI and related fields and use Python (and also learn more of it)

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with dowcet: rather than specialize, generalize. Do an ML project (start at kaggle.com/learn, or CS50 for AI), and also a Cybersec project.

[acoustic phoenix]

I see, thanks for the tip. I'll try that.

[vapid jay]

I'm your junior and would it be possible for you to tell me how exactly were you able to figure out about your interests in those fields? I'll be joining uni this year for CS but I still don't know what in CS I wanna pursue later on (as in which sub-field)

[fringe sphinx]

It's totally OK to not specialize. I've worked in many different domains (subjects) in my career, in all sorts of roles. A working knowledge of many topics is more important than specialization in one. Don't believe me? Listen to the (a?) GOAT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QxI-RP6-HM

I believe that most CS majors don't have a specialty when they graduate. They're (usually) generalists.

[vapid jay]

So what would you suggest someone like me who'll be going to uni this year to do?

How do I "explore" different domains

[fringe sphinx]

Small projects.

Doesn't matter what: it's like going to the gym as a teenager - it doesn't matter what you do, you'll get stronger.

[fringe sphinx]

!kin has a non-exhaustive list of ideas

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[lusty birch]

Python on top

[vapid jay]

And all of them with Python?

[fringe sphinx]

Pick something... maybe a web app? Or a game? Or a data project? Whatever you feel like. Maybe learn a bit about github and linux.

[fringe sphinx]

Yup. You'll learn other languages in University, a good foundation in one language is more important than a weak foundation in many.

Have you picked your university?

[vapid jay]

Aren't the three things you mentioned a little too complex for someone like me? I only know of high school level Python (and I'm mid way CS50p too)

[vapid jay]

Yup it's all finalized

[fringe sphinx]

Not at all. You just start very simple.

[fringe sphinx]

Congratulations! Universities publish their curriculum (courses) for each major. I'd suggest reading that, and reading all the course descriptions.

[vapid jay]

I'll give it a start from the list you suggested 😄

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe search for "university name computer science course map" or "curriculum"

[vapid jay]

Yes I have the curriculum. Would it be possible for you to guide me a bit?

[fringe sphinx]

Sure

[vapid jay]

This is how it's looking for the 1st three years:

Introduction to Computer Science
Foundations of Engineering Design I
Foundations of Engineering Design II

Introduction to Computer Systems
Python Programming
Data Structures
Information Security
Discrete Computational Structure

Design and Analysis of Algorithms
Software Engineering
Database Design and Development

[fringe sphinx]

Pretty normal, makes sense.

Just remember that those topics teach you conceptual / thinking / etc. The practical stuff is what you'll learn on your own, through projects.

Since you're just starting learning coding, it doesn't make sense (yet) to even worry about the 2nd and 3rd year topics (like DSA and Databases and SWEing)

[vapid jay]

Yup so as you mentioned before I'll focus on doing projects for now (and continue doing that during uni too) along with theory in classes. But I still don't understand cuz in the 1st 3 years there's not even a mention of something like AI/ML/DL so after graduation how do people get to know what to do in their future if school doesn't cover it?

[fringe sphinx]

There's probably some electives you'll choose to take.

[acoustic phoenix]

I spent the first year of uni just learning about different kinds of careers with cs. And in the end i just narrowed it down to a few. I would say just expose yourself to different ones, and you'll find your interests pretty quickly.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, since AI/ML is so popular, you should plan to do a project to learn a bit about it. It's not hard to do small projects.

[vapid jay]

Yes the website does mention about taking electives but doesn't say what those elctives are lol

[digital fjord]

There's likely a list you can find somewhere, they tend to be quite long though.

[vapid jay]

But AI has a lot of theoretical concepts to also be covered so will it be taking a small course first and then jumping to projects?

[vapid jay]

Ah so it's a trial and test process?

[fringe sphinx]

I meant: doing simple projects to explore AI is straightforward. Doing "AI/ML" science is a graduate school topic, tbh.

[acoustic phoenix]

Kinda
Atleast it was for me

[true harness]

undergrad will give you exposure to a ton of different fields (if you look for it) through electives. you can take them and see if you like them

[vapid jay]

Wait I'm a little confused, wdym by " doing simple projects to explore AI"
Do you have some examples

[vapid jay]

Yup that's the plan but often times what happens is when you learn a new subject, the subject itself may be cool and you may actually like it but the prof could not be that great. This is why I was planning to perhaps start doing some courses just to get my feet a little wet as I have a few free months before uni

[fringe sphinx]

cs50 for AI or kaggle.com/learn would be where you'd start.

[vapid jay]

Cool! And should I upload my "small projects" on GitHub or do these small ones not matter

[fringe sphinx]

It's good practice to use Github for your code, yes. Don't do projects because of your resume, do projects because you want to do a project. The resume stuff will come later (nothing you do now will ever be interesting -on a resume- 🙂 let me correct that: it might be interesting for internships. But the experience at using github will definitely be worth it.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, this is great stuff you could read/learn: https://missing.csail.mit.edu/

[vapid jay]

Yeah I’ll be looking for internships itself so I think uploading projects will be nice but will simple@level projects interest companies? What do these internship companies look for in applicants? I have integrated coop in my school so that makes things better since they provide me with a little of beer networking and referrals, seems like they have a few tie ups

[vapid jay]

Ill@look into it thanks

[fringe sphinx]

The projects themselves won't be interesting, but the knowledge you'll gain from doing them (and using github) will make you a better candidate.

[lucid citrus]

What source do you guys use to learn code?

I'm currently using freecodecamp.org not sure if its still relevant🤔

[lunar juniper]

I have began learning pyrhon in YouTube but i am unable to solve easy problems and i dont understand a single code when I try to understand it can anyone give an advice that where I can learn python better

[gritty rivet]

Mostly documentation... There are endless resources at your fingertips these days though so it all depends on what you're trying to build.

[peak halo]

you won't passively learn from watching videos, so I suspect that your strategy for engaging with the video content is off.

try following a book instead.

[vapid jay]

That’s good to hear

[tidal gazelle]

Can anyone share their thoughts regarding what the Nvidia CEO said about AI replacing coders?

[vapid jay]

You can try out CS50p I’m doing it rn and it’s pretty good

[lunar juniper]

Ok

[lunar juniper]

Ok Thanks

[tidal gazelle]

@white relic Apologies for the ping, but since you may be experienced with this can I have your thoughts?

[peak halo]

The CEO of Nvidia is motivated to make AI sound as impactful as possible, since all the AI that anyone cares about these days depends on hardware produced only by Nvidia.

I think in the next few years, developers will be expected to leverage AI tools in order to be more productive (like automatically refactoring code or producing some boilerplate). And the ability for AI tools to perform simple coding tasks might make junior roles more competitive. But I don't think large numbers of developer positions will be eliminated.

[buoyant seal]

we could add here, that by motivated, just for saying this he likely increased proffits for company by magnitudes and therefore got more million dollars into his pocket as well. Money can force saying anything out of CEO. it is was literally his... best decision towards making company more proffitable and making more people buying Nvidia cards. Very reasonable decision :/

[fringe sphinx]

I'd suggest watching it again and reconsidering what they're actually saying.

Because they're not saying: 'there won't be coders'

[near ocean]

I would not listen to what x ceo has to say about things unless its the CEO of paying your bills

[white relic]

eh, there is some value in paying attention to what people are saying and where the industry hype is.
But predicting the future is hard and CEOs aren't necessarily better at it than the rest of us.
(I haven't actually seen/read the comment in question)

it's always easy to predict that historical trends will continue and they often do, but that kind of prediction mostly pans out for entrenched interests who can bet on existing investments and infrastructure

[near ocean]

I can only find cringe snippets and theyre all of the type "you dont have to learn to program, just to prompt the ai"

[white relic]

In addition to the above, it's also worth noting that people have been predicting the AI revolution will replace human workers since at least the 50s.
The current generation of AI is not capable of doing that, so predicting that it will happen in the next few years is to expect a major technological innovation of the kind which historically are very very hard to anticipate.
Most likely the next major innovation in AI will not emerge from continued work on making bigger, better LLMs but from some other direction entirely.
A few years ago everyone thought truck drivers would be the first people AI would make obsolete, that isn't working out well so far.

[fringe sphinx]

Just to be clear: I think what the CEO said was very different than what Raven (and other people / reddit) has summarized them as saying.

[white relic]

Another way to look at it is that progressively better AIs have been replacing humans since the 50s.
But historically, that tends to free up humans for higher level tasks, not eliminate jobs with no replacement. And it's by no means clear that the end of that trend is right around the corner.

I guess I should read it before commenting smh

[kindred oyster]

I'll just quote this line said by someone in the server -
"I will believe his claims when he lays off 100% (or like 90%) of his coding workforce"

[lucid citrus]

honestly, after a while of coding, I figured out how to use AI to to increase my productivity. Like filling repetitive stuff

[near ocean]

I dont think he ever wrote a single line of code after college

[fringe sphinx]

What was his comments? (I don't think he said what you think he said)

[near ocean]

What do you think he said

[fringe sphinx]

I think that they think that they said that coders won't exist.

(Hows that sentence construction 🙂

My impression is that they're saying: coding will be more accessible

[near ocean]

Prompting an ai which happens to be his product is not wider accessibility

[fringe sphinx]

And that the claim that: 'everybody must learn to code' is pointless: not because coders will be obsolete, but because not everyone needs to be a coder.

That was the beginning of their comments, talking about the push for everyone to learn to code. In other words; him saying: not everyone needs to code is not the same as 'nobody needs to code'

"However, he did add that, “programming is not going to be essential for you to be a successful person...but if somebody wants to learn to do so (program), please do - because we’re hiring programmers.” - https://www.techradar.com/pro/nvidia-ceo-says-dont-give-up-learning-new-skills-just-maybe-leave-programming-to-ai

[near ocean]

I was just about to post that
What a load of shit

As if nvidia would ever hire "prompt engineers" instead of software engineers

[balmy mural]

Our team is currently looking to get a few licences of copilot to try out. Everyone is happy to try it out, but no one really wants it. We've all tried working with different LLMs and it's just not really made any significant impact on our dev speed or workflows. Hoping that copilot can speed up some of the boilerplate code we do for our front ends when writing new features by exposing it to the codebase

[mystic violet]

i always wondered why people ripped on the 'no work, high pay' jobs. Why not just... work that job?

you're doing no work... for high pay, like, what can i say

[vapid jay]

Programming is taught in university and if it can be replaced or done effectively with the help of AI then what skills should one learn?

As days progress eventually everything will be replaced by AI except all the manual labour work which down the line as well could follow the same path

[fringe sphinx]

"People confuse programming with coding. Coding is to programming what typing is to writing."
Leslie Lamport

[peak halo]

I don't really agree with this

"programming" might sound more "elevated" than "coding", but everyone uses them interchangeably. Whereas "typing" and "writing" are not interchangeable.

[fringe sphinx]

Full quote: https://youtu.be/4RptzbNNoU0?feature=shared

[peak halo]

huh, all this time I thought Leslie Lamport was a woman

[peak halo]

"How will we allocate resources in an economy if labor--the principal way of allocating resources via wages--is largely eliminated by autonomy" is a huge problem that all of society will have to reckon with, regardless of what career path you choose.

[peak halo]

if [programming] can be replaced or done effectively with the help of AI
the end-to-end process of software planning and development cannot currently be solved by AI.

[vapid jay]

currently but by the looks if it it's only about a few years away

[vapid jay]

As much as i like and enjoy CS it's to the point where idek if I should pursue it
harsh market, lots of layoffs etc

[lucid citrus]

Do I need to learn linux? I only have window

[fringe sphinx]

What is?

I'd argue that the next decades will be even -more- interesting for CS.

The last two decades felt kinda boring.

[vapid jay]

in which domains? AI side?

[peak halo]

what does it mean to "learn linux"?
most enterprise software is deployed on linux systems, so I would plan to get comfortable working in linux environments where you have access to only a bash shell.

[fringe sphinx]

Languages, operating systems, ai/ml, mobile, web/display, embedded, etc. We're facing a renaissance

[heady pilot]

my whole carrer

[fringe sphinx]

Leslie Nielsen would like a word https://youtu.be/KM2K7sV-K74?feature=shared

[balmy oak]

typing and writing can defintely be interchangeable lol.

"What ya up to?"

"Oh just writing up a story."
"Oh just typing up a story."

[peak halo]

the "up" changes it. "to type" and "to type up" are different.

[fringe sphinx]

Tbf, this wasn't a casual quip. Lamport explains their meaning.

[balmy oak]

Not in real life in actual conversation.

[peak halo]

No, the are different in real life and in actual conversation (as opposed to what?)
if you're "typing up a story", that means you're also composing the story. Whereas if you're "typing a story", that would indicate that the story is already written (perhaps with pen and paper) and you're just entering it into the computer (or typing it on a typewriter, I guess).

[balmy oak]

Writing can mean the physical act of creating words on some sort of medium. It can also mean the creative act of actually creating story.

Typing usually means the physical act of typing something.

They can be interchangable. They arent always

I agree with your earlier sentiment about what Leslie said

I think coding and programming are interchangeable. Typing and writing can be as well

[peak halo]

I have nothing else to add about the semantic subtleties we've discussed.

[balmy oak]

Ok. We'll just agree that writing and typing can be interchangeable and leave it at that

[peak halo]

I don't agree.

[balmy oak]

"Im sending a text." People say this all the time. Alot of the time they mean "I am composing my thoughts combined with typing the thoughts and will hit the send button". English definitions are very intertwined and casual.

[peak halo]

This isn't relevant to this channel and isn't ultimately important.

[kindred oyster]

tbh does it really matter 🤷‍♂️

[balmy oak]

Does any thing matter? But ill agree this isn't relevant to the channel

[dapper bane]

Been doing an internship anyway to make some extra cash

Pong me

[unique torrent]

print

[gritty sage]

Idk where to really say this but Mint or Ubuntu for beginners?

[smoky quest]

Hi! You should check #❓｜how-to-get-help as this has nothing to do with careers

[gritty sage]

Its for career in computer science but ty for ur help

[smoky quest]

So does having the best breakfast and bowel movements. Still not related to careers

[gritty sage]

What if you are a chef tho

[smoky quest]

then an off topic channel would be more appropriate

[icy zealot]

can someone help me ? im dying on this one

from string import ascii_letters
import random

for i in range(10):
    Name = "".join(random.choices(ascii_letters, k=1) for i in range(8))
    print(Name + "@gmail.com")

[pine sleet]

this is the wrong channel in this. you can ask questions in #python-discussion or #1035199133436354600

[whole flare]

Ubuntu

[gritty sage]

Why

[whole flare]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[brave cove]

hi guys, Are there any test engineer community website?

[smoky quest]

I am sure there are

[brave cove]

What websites do you recommend. some of the most famous

[smoky quest]

I like google.com for searches. Or duckduckgo.
news.ycombinator.com is great for tech news too

https://lobste.rs/ is also nice for tech news

[brave cove]

About test engineer

[vapid jay]

ye i want to be a hacker and um i hav no idea whats a STEM degree

[deft herald]

Science technology engineering math

So anything in those fields

[deft herald]

And what do you mean that you want to be a hacker? We don't condone illegal activities here

[tacit epoch]

i think he means ethical hacking

[vapid jay]

bro like white hatter

cyber security ig idk

[tacit epoch]

yea thats called ethical hacking , ethical hackers hack devices with the owners consent . They mostly do this because companies hire them to do this and ask them to create a report on the security flaws in their systems. for more info , check this website
https://www.synopsys.com/glossary/what-is-ethical-hacking.html

[tacit epoch]

Also idk about other countries but here in india , ethical hackers work with the police to catch cyber criminals , criminal hackers ,etc

[astral whale]

i have a question.....i got a call for a business development intership that i have got short listed for that... but they said they will be providing me linkedin premium so that i could talk to their US- client also they were asking for to give me my linkedin passward so that they would give me the premium.....do you think its fake/scam?

[buoyant seal]

with around 99.9999999999999999999% chance it is a fake/scam

[astral whale]

i didnt gave up my password

why only scam people want me😭

[buoyant seal]

Smart Cookie 🍪 ^_^ https://youtu.be/EHVSE2d8RZg

[astral whale]

i got happy for a moment

and now i feel like to cry

[buoyant seal]

drop here if desired anonymized resume or smth.
We could try to see if there smth that attracts more scammers ^_^
may be u wrote a lot of scam often used tech or smth to it

[astral whale]

k wait

[astral whale]

look@buoyant seal

im gonna have a good cry now

[buoyant seal]

you know after some thinking...
I think there is nothing really about you. It is not personal

I get scam letters from random messangers at least every week or more often
Scammers aren't really you know picky whom to scam ^_^

[fringe sphinx]

Some dad advice: don't take any of this personally. Every day is an opportunity to try something different. The opportunities are out there, trust the process and seek input (like you're doing)

(Hah, what Darkwind said!)

[astral whale]

so my resume is not shit?

[fringe sphinx]

Well, tbh, I don't like it. No details under the experience or projects and too much space on your overview. So, nothing here tells me you really know how to code (for instance). I ignore skills and other blocks, and go straight to experience/projects.

[astral whale]

but im a fresher how can i experience

[fringe sphinx]

Your internships, I mean.

[astral whale]

only scam people wants to hire me how am i supposed to find good stuff

[fringe sphinx]

Here's an example: https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs

[buoyant seal]

Well... i'll try to mention what i like and what i dislike about this resume.
I like

• It has higher education.
• it has internships, two!
• ergh.... obviously plenty of enthusiasm towards data science and probably data engineering
• good languages knowledge claimed at least

what i dislike:

• (Very minor thing) at this point i am triggered at the worg "Passionate". Everyone is passionate. no point to write.
• (Balanced i guess) I dislike heavily web scrapping personally (technology often used for bad purposes), but then i connect it with that you are data scientist/data engineer and it looks okay to me i guess, since they can be often needing it.
• it has projects... but no links to see their code to Github or smth 🤔 (Hard to evaluate your coding skills)
  • No links to github/gitlab/kaggle.com or any other place to see your work examples basically (may be personal site?). This point is probably the most important to me and makes me doubting your coding skills. I wish to see some code, or documenting/research thinking since u are data scientist and etc

Some conclusion here from overview: well higher education + TWO internships really stand out. So probably should be okay going, but still would be really nice eventually building your own portfolio of work examples

[astral whale]

hmmm okay i'll do something about it

i have this scary quick question and i hate when people tell me to do competitive coding becuz i know i suck at it... can someone please tell me that is data structure and algorithms i.e competitive coding important for a data analysis ?

[buoyant seal]

Funny thing about being "passionate"
I try to show it in my portfolio, resume, at work not through saying i am passionate.
I say it through my actions of showing stuff i do and pet projects i do
Showing by actions instead of words.

[astral whale]

ok

[buoyant seal]

hmm how to answer that... question with many answers.

1. Data structures and algorithms is a good discipline nice to know as fundamental stuff for any CS graduated person
2. Solving leetcoding stuff is in general separate skill from having work skills, so i don't view it important at all.
3. during job seeking i encountered very small amount of places that ask leetcoding
4. one of those places was company oriented more for data scientists. May be data scientists are more often asked leetcoding
5. it is known fact that people trying to get hired into FAANG or FAANG imitating companies have a lot of leetcoding as their process (Hello Yandex company)

So my summarized answer will be.
As regular devs i never often encountered need for leetcoding, and i still never bothered to learn. As any person often coding i will be able to solve stuff eventually, but probably often can be stuck for hard questions if never solved it. Or may be even leetcoding of lesser difficulty.
May be data scientists encounter it more.
May be if i will be going to job hunt i could reconsider my standing and doing leetcoding. But i am not sure if i will be willing to get hired to companies that coduct it as there are other ways to check people

So....
In some situations leetcoding is important to find job
in some others it is not. Depends on where u wish to get hired i guess

I value more having shown coding skills for code quality and they are... never seen in leetcoding pretty much

so this makes me questioning if leetcoding is even having a point beyond checking if person is able to solve fizz buzz

So... with some good chance i will remain lazy ever doing leetcoding for my full career.

[astral whale]

i just wanna cry for a while wait

[buoyant seal]

Things i value instead of leetcoding.

Code Complete book https://www.amazon.com/Code-Complete-Practical-Handbook-Construction/dp/0735619670

If i could recommend to read only a single book in entire life, that would be this one. It is very all encompasing book covering a lot of aspects of software development. Some of them in more than enough capacity. Some of them is showing only briefly and redirecting to where to learn them further. With this book u will have much clear picture that there is still a lot to learn ahead. It has plenty of recommendations what to read next.

Despite it being written in 2004 year as second edition, it still remains relevant for 98%+ of its text. With reading its material you will learn reusable skills that will remain persistent through your full career. it will help you to write more cleaner, more readable and maintainable code in any programming language. It will help you to understand possible goals in development to aim for, and what you could be missing to code with more efficiency.
This book goes over all different aspects to do software engineering more efficiently and in more maintainable way, recommending for each thing how to extend in depth skills further

[buoyant seal]

https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Testing-Principles-Practices-Patterns/dp/1617296279

This book teaches theory behind unit testing. For which goals to aim for, how to escape pitifals. It will explain you importance of unit testing and what kind of testing exists. This book is important to weaponize your skills to an average commercial level development.

https://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Kent-Beck/dp/0321146530

This book teaches practice behind unit testing. On a specific example it walks you through how to have unit testing as part of your development cycle at every moment. It teaches you feeling how much gap between tests is allowed in your working code.

Unit testing is one of most important cornerstones for me to writing good code easy to maintain and extend at code scale size.
It improves for me code quality by magnitudes just because i do it in any language

with learning later things for code architecture... i gain ability to have code i enjoy writing and maintaining through multiple years

[buoyant sun]

FAKE FAKE FAKE bro don't give them. They can give you premium without your account too

[safe wolf]

Hey , any guidance/tips for a python programming beginner like me ??

Without traditional cs degree.. and uploading my daily work/learning/projects on Twitter/X will be good way ??

I am currently following Angel Yu's 100 days of code bootcamp on Udemy

[spice latch]

i got scammed too. This is not new. Fresher are easy to fool. Well, my suggestion would be work on your skill and whenever u apply to any company know their background.

[gritty rivet]

https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-software-engineers/

[harsh basin]

Guys, I have a question for you: What coding related advice will you give to if you met your youngerself

[fringe sphinx]

#career-advice message

[whole flare]

I think the best solution would be to get a degree in either computer science or more specialized such as cyber security.

[wind python]

billy

check the report I sendt it is an entire fucking reddit story

[vapid jay]

hello everyone new member here well just lem me give u a short intro why i joined this server
So i am indian guy who just gave is boards paper and now its about stream selection time[what study gonna do after 12th] so i am really intrested in computers,coding etc related to machine learing, ai etc and i am thinking to take bca[bachelor's of computer application] where i can learn various languages but as coming from commerce stream ik only basic about coding but really intrested in it so anyone give me some guide how can do coding and make a career in it [ik basic about python and now learning it just struggling in some topics]

[sweet lintel]

hi

[vapid jay]

hello

[sweet lintel]

I am new to Python, and it is my first programming language :D

I wish, my journey goes good

[vapid jay]

oo nice good luck

[kindred oyster]

Is it possible for u to opt for btech ? A btech degree is a bit more respected in our market. (BCA is still not bad at all tho). During your degree , you will most likely learn multiple languages. You can start now with python , it will give you an upper hand. For now , just focus on learning python.

[vapid jay]

nope as from commerce stream i cant

[kindred oyster]

Yeah , it's ok then ig.

!res here is free resources you can get started with learning python

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

ya but i feel demotivated when i dont know anything and anyone ask about it and i cant ans, they start to make judgement that i cant able to do bca

[kindred oyster]

It all comes down to , "how bad you want it ?" .

If you want to do it , people can't stop you. You gotta stop caring what they say. It's just how the world works , some people say shit to u and u can just ignore them

[vapid jay]

i want it more then my life i dont know how i would able to do bca or not but ik i have interest and i can do

[vapid jay]

well i do most of the time when any other say's it but when family members say such things it hurts

[kindred oyster]

You should learn to ignore stuff 😅. You will waste more energy in arguing with them. Just say ok and work in silence. And silence them with the success

[vapid jay]

ok i will try my best to improve and tq man for helping me i such time
i need to go now
11:30 pm here gn

[faint depot]

Hi guys. I know you probably get this question a lot but im bloody struggling in finding a project to code. I dont want to do a shitty simple coding project. I want to do one where its interesting but challenging enough where it helps me to learn more and be a better programmer

[peak halo]

is there something on your computer that you've always wanted to automate?
like extracting data from a bunch of files that you have?

my first project was that I created a simulation for ranked choice voting. so it created a bunch of random ballots and showed how the final winner might not be the person with the most votes in the first iteration. And I did that because I'm interested in political reform ||even though I know it won't happen 😢 ||

[kindred oyster]

I feel like making a python app that whenever my phone gets connected to a PC , it can backup my stuff in the background. Like , a local backup. ( Just realised this is career discussion, sorry 💀)

[faint depot]

Might give that a go

[true harness]

wow i did that too (not as a first project though. i just wanted to manipulate a club election). i wrote a blog article on it 😩

[faint depot]

My situations probably not uncommon but Im so sick of the studying. Spent my whole life doing it for it to not go anywhere so i just want to do something. I dont want to spend hours on python DSA and doing leetcode type exercises and learning shit ton of theory. Just want to learn through actually coding something

[peak halo]

why are you grinding DSA?

[faint depot]

Im not grinding it 😂. But i feel like i probably have to learn more about it before i can even program something good if that makes any sense

Ive only been 50% through the grokking algorithms book and did a few codewar exercises and thats it for DSA

[peak halo]

DSA is about understanding how efficient different data structures are, and writing efficient algorithms to solve optimization problems. but when you write programs "in real life", you usually aren't implementing your own data structures or solving optimization problems.

[buoyant seal]

solving optimization problems.
well... actually there is sometimes a need to optimize performance of some algorithm, finding where memory leaks, too many memory allocations and etc doing profiling 😄
Not exactly stuff usually done in leetcoding though, but we at least learned relevant stuff about it in Data Structures

[faint depot]

Atm i restarted a small project where i extract data from a stock csv file (by date) and then creating a separate excel file storing that data. Once i complete it, ill go onto another project

[gritty rivet]

Focusing on building stuff is the right approach. Just studying for the sake of learning is a lot harder to sustain than learning for the sake of solving actual problems

[faint depot]

Tbh i really want to get into machine learning because it seems interesting af. But i need to learn a lot of prerequisite maths. I like maths but like i said before im sick of the studying

Atm ill do more python projects, while relearning my a level (high school) maths on the side to eventually get onto Ml

[smoky quest]

pretty cool!

[smoky quest]

That signals something could be improved in your approach or that you are placing some unrealistic goals upon yourself.
Because you would not be sick of studying if it gets you closer to your goal.

So make sure you do not just read books end to end without practicing. You should do the exercises and even some projects for each chapter.
Learning from scratch does take time, but building a strong foundation means things will be "easier" as you add complexity and get into more advanced areas

[faint depot]

Thank you to everyone who gave me advice

[true hatch]

how can i get a bachelor's in 2 years (Computer Science)

[smoky quest]

Why would you want that?

[gritty rivet]

There are self-paced programs like WGU and I think some people may pull it off that quickly. I wouldn't generally advise that as a good idea though

[true hatch]

4+ years of education? ill pass

[smoky quest]

why would you want that?

[true hatch]

i hate school

[smoky quest]

middle school is very different from college. It's a lot more fun and you get to explore deeper very interesting topics

[gritty rivet]

If you think school sucks, wait until you're working full time 🤣

[true hatch]

but you have to do CS all day long, don't you think youll get tired of it?

[true harness]

i mean, you'll have other courses than CS. and what do you think a job as a software developer will be like

[true hatch]

I guess so (why is there a 20 minute cooldown?)

[smoky quest]

You know that once you get a job in CS, you will have to do CS all day long for 40 years?

if you will get tired of doing CS all day long for college, you are going to have a bad time at your job

[whole flare]

Seconded

[smoky quest]

It's gonna get worse too since you will have homework and projects.

[true harness]

at least jobs will pay you 😩

[smoky quest]

I was paid to study

[true hatch]

you also get homwerk on the job?

[smoky quest]

Worse, you get deadlines

[true hatch]

I don't think ill study CS

I think ill pass

[smoky quest]

You may also want to explore other careers and what they mean. They won't necessarily be any better

[true harness]

more than you made as a junior?

[true hatch]

but i wanted a CS career because of the 💸

[smoky quest]

can't compare

[smoky quest]

It's not that easy. You would have to be real good for that

[true hatch]

money is 90% of my focus

[whole flare]

🤔

[true hatch]

6 figures is enough

[whole flare]

What is the 10%?

[true hatch]

im talking later in life

[safe zenith]

Not sure if any of you guys have taken TheOdinProject. I've heard it's a good way to learn fullstack but I wanted to hear other people's opinion. Also, just to put it out there, I'm looking into Solutions Architect as a potential career. I know that getting certifications such as the AWS dont really guarantee a job, it's by building a strong portfolio, however, I wanted to get an entry position like a helpdesk assistant. Not to sure where to start to get hired in an entry postion.

[smoky quest]

yeah, they don't hand out money for free.
There is a lot of competition

[gritty rivet]

Finance or accounting may be a better fit then

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[true hatch]

bro I can't my ADHD kills me

[safe zenith]

Getting my associates this summer. Planning going to a 4 year. But do I really have to wait to get a CS degree? Is there really no way to get an entry level position while I'm studying?

[smoky quest]

You do want to wait for a CS degree.

[gritty rivet]

It doesn't sound like you find CS any easier.

[smoky quest]

If it was that easy and an equivalent path, no one would do it

[true harness]

you can look for internships while you're in school

[gritty rivet]

You mentioned help desk. The bar for entry without a four year degree is significantly lower there, especially if you have a cert like the A+.

[true hatch]

my future career is in massive questions

[smoky quest]

I think it's beyond that. You have to review your assumptions of what career and jobs are and what it means employees do

[true hatch]

In a Job the only thing i care about is a healthy paycheck

[gritty rivet]

If you expect to make six figures and have no alternative plan, you should finish your degree and do well at it. Expect it to be hard.

[safe zenith]

Besides the A+, I'm assuming I need to have other certs or a portfolio of some sort? or does it not matter if you're starting out as a helpdesk? Also a lot of these jobs are asking for a billion years of exp... which is why im confused because I thought it was more of a entry level postion.

[smoky quest]

Nothing is free. There will be expectations associated with it

[smoky quest]

You have to consider the before-degree and after-degree.
Before degree, any student job is fine and fair. Once you get your degree, just aim for the job you want, don't aim for helpdesk

[true hatch]

why is there a 20 second cooldown

[smoky quest]

it's so that people think more before they press enter. It also gives the opportunity to make longer sentences

[true hatch]

But, maybe if I work hard in High School get a High GPA, SAT & ACT. Maybe I could go to a very high level college and study CS

[smoky quest]

indeed. That will help a lot

[true hatch]

But first, I need to be above average at math and have good discipline

[true harness]

you really don't need both SAT and ACT. furthermore, it's not the only thing you need (actually you don't need either for many schools). you will need strong extracurriculars, strong essays, and a lot of luck

[true hatch]

So, I have to be decent in atleast 1 or 2 sports?

[true harness]

not necessarily. but it might help

[true hatch]

then what extracurriculars? Do you think speaking 4 languages helps?

[true harness]

i can't tell you exactly what you should do. sure, it could help

[true hatch]

but what are extracurriculars? I thought that they were sports

[pine sleet]

being an officer in a CS club, for instance

[true hatch]

is it that important for college?

[safe zenith]

Right I understand that the CS degree opens doors. However I have this fear of not learning anything in college, coming out with degree, and not getting hired because I don't have any exp or understanding of what i learned. So I figured maybe more hands on experience could mitigate that.

[pine sleet]

it could be quite useful

[smoky quest]

It's tautological, new grads don't have experience

[smoky quest]

if you want better jobs, dive deeper into the school projects and topics, not building yet another ecommerce frontend

[true harness]

you can get some hands on experience through internships. and a lot of CS grads do have the sense that they haven't learned anything in school, the trick is to work on your own projects outside of school. only coding for assignments won't be enough

[safe zenith]

I see. Thanks for the tips. To my first question, have any of you guys taken the TheOdinProject course?

[smoky quest]

no

[opal sable]

why can't I talk in voc

[smoky quest]

No idea and doesn't seem related to this channel. You should check #❓｜how-to-get-help

[burnt zephyr]

hi guys i got a possible job, but they asking me how much i expect to earn... as my first data analyst job what should I say?

questions before an interview... they may not contact in the end tho

[silent osprey]

is there any free website you can learn python interactively like leetcode joust for free?

[peak halo]

https://www.pythondiscord.com/resources/?type=interactive&payment-tiers=free

[fringe sphinx]

Lots of employers ask this question, but you could say: I don't have an exact figure in mind.

It's an unfair question because everyone wants to say: as much as you'll pay me.

[echo anchor]

Biggest factors are probably:

• Location
• Industry
• Your experience level
• The type of company you're interviewing with

[sharp plank]

on a cv is it better to put personal projects in a separate section to projects done as part of a uni course? if i have the space

[whole flare]

I would say so, yes

[true harness]

i don't on mine. why make the distinction?

[sharp plank]

ive heard more weight can be attributed to projects you did outside of uni since you took the initiative to do it

[peak halo]

my boss told me that when they look at applications from university students, they only consider projects that were done in some formal setting.

[true harness]

huh, that's the opposite of what i'd expect. i would think you don't care about uni projects (unless it was some capstone project) since everyone that passed did the same project

[red basin]

dang

[peak halo]

by "formal setting", I don't mean homework assignments.

[sharp plank]

I heard from a head of technology its the other way round 😅

guess it just depends

[true harness]

then? capstone projects? research projects?

[fringe sphinx]

Me; I don't care about setting. The question is whether they can engage in a conversation around the project.

[smoky quest]

Same here. I only care about 👏 the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏 .
The only distinction I would care is if it's done in a professional setting (internship or job) vs non-professional (school or personal)

[vapid jay]

With professional demonstrated skills being better than in non-professional?

[smoky quest]

it's about the ones relevant to the role being hired for.
They aren't mutually exclusive

[vapid jay]

That makes more sense. Thanks!

[smoky quest]

like your personal project may demonstrate you know python, while your internship may demonstrate you have experience with observability at scale

different skills, both relevant

[signal oar]

hoping to apply for remote jobs and internships for web dev... ik django crud,css,flexbox,js dom.. idk any frontend frameworks. now am building my ecommerce like app

[smoky quest]

when are you graduating?

[signal oar]

i will be in second year in 2months

so after 2 years

[smoky quest]

for internship, you are already ready
For jobs, whenever you graduate

[signal oar]

but my college dont have that much opportunity am hoping to get from online

[smoky quest]

how is it related?

[signal oar]

i thought college provide internships?

[smoky quest]

lol no

[signal oar]

oh then how do i get ?

[smoky quest]

students have to find them on their own.
tbh, you missed the boat for this summer

[signal oar]

from where? to find?

[smoky quest]

you find internships through:

• Looking for internship ads on linkedin/indeed
• Spam your local companies
• Nepotism

[signal oar]

i often see many adds on internships but i nver apply will i stand a chance against those 4th year college students who apply

[smoky quest]

depends how good you are

[signal oar]

i should try ig

[smoky quest]

there is only one way to find out 😉

[signal oar]

when i search internships on google i get a lot of sketchy websites also how do ik its legit or not

[smoky quest]

linkedin and indeed are pretty solid

[signal oar]

okh ill try

so u would suggest going for a internship rather than building projects and maybe try free lancing already tried no clients notice me

[smoky quest]

freelancing is low value cheap jobs. Not what you want to make a career of.
Internships are more interesting

[signal oar]

okk ill try to find some

[signal oar]

what roles i could apply if i want to be django web dev.. will companies accept juniors to backend roles with thier data?

[smoky quest]

you would want to apply to django web dev internships.
Companies would probably mean it to accept juniors to backend roles with their data when they put ads for internships about django web dev

[signal oar]

yea lol..ok

[signal oar]

hey i found one internship matching my profile.. i am very tempted to apply

i cant find anything related to salary or stipend.. if thats not listed does it mean free of cost?

[smoky quest]

doesn't mean anything

[signal oar]

ok

[fluid owl]

i wanna be a plumber

[umbral frigate]

Interesting choice. Not for this channel though.

[red cape]

I want to be cybersecurity specialist

[weak hedge]

what you peeo sayy of ai hype

[plush summit]

Ur below a 1000 elo? :/

[north rune]

give him a few months, he'll climb

[fluid owl]

yes i’m ass 😭

[lilac bloom]

yo

[slow rock]

https://github.com/NationalSecurityAgency/ghidra/assets/118324883/b8209e95-1bb7-4c1c-875b-8cceed44c3a1

[brazen anvil]

hi does anyone have any idea on computer error?

is there any suitable channel to ask abt the error i am facing for my ssd

anyone ? i Got a S.M.A.R.T test warning

[brazen anvil]

anyone

while running
wmic diskdrive get status
this command i got

Status
Pred Fail

[umbral frigate]

People work whenever they can sometimes.

[kindred oyster]

!topic ask in any of the three

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[simple bloom]

anyone who can help me out with finding a student job in coding, I'm a first year student Applied Computer Sciences in Belgium.

[vapid jay]

I need help figuring out how to protect an endpoint to a specific user in a database to access the admin dashboard only in flask

[fleet salmon]

Hi

[severe umbra]

Yoooo does anyone know websites where i can get free programming (computer science ) certificates ?

[fleet salmon]

Everythings that's free is uselesz

We live in a capitalist society

👀

[severe umbra]

Not neccessarly

I mean discord is free

[true harness]

certificates are not really that useful in software engineering compared to a CS degree, and the ones that are useful (AWS certs for example) are not free. but many learning resources are, and I would actually encourage going for free resources rather than paying

[severe umbra]

Well certificates can be helpful when applying to a cs uni

You show that you have experience and interrest

[severe umbra]

But ill look into that ty

[narrow oyster]

Oh lord the amount of shit you have to do in order to install a fucking library in C++

[opal sable]

AHAHAAHA

[narrow oyster]

Can anybody help me?

[deft pelican]

Install a library, what does it mean?

[narrow oyster]

Like I want to use raylib in my project

[deft herald]

This channel is for career discussions

[narrow oyster]

Sorry, I'm kinda desperate rn so I was looking if anybody coulp help me on that

[fringe sphinx]

If you want help, be sure to ask in the right channel or open a help thread: #❓｜how-to-get-help

[vapid jay]

Hello guys

Is there careers for people who have online certificates and can work remotely?

[snow patrol]

many companies also employee self taught software developers

probably depends on the country tho

[vapid jay]

@vapid jay look bro please help me

what is oython shell ?

I'd just like to know how to put my python file in my commands

ok thank you

ok ty

[vale anchor]

Hello everyone, I'm an old python programmer, i also know lua (cuz i program in roblox currently for others). SIMPLE QUESTION - how does one become a freelance web designer/developer? I want to make a living asap or I'm ending up on the streets (maybe not, but still) does anyone know 😭

[pine sleet]

you will most likely not be able to make a living off freelancing. focus on finding any job first, if you're in dire need of money - now is not the time to be picky about what kind of jobs you take. make sure there's food on the table first, then see if you can get into a SWE job or something like that

[vale anchor]

rn im 17, so i do have food, but soon in like 2 years I wont, thats why im asking

i can learn web design, web dev fast, have tried it out before, just problem what i should do

[balmy mural]

Then the path of least resistance to getting a job is getting a CS degree

[vale anchor]

i dont want to wait 6 years for that sir 🙂 it isnt worth the time

[balmy mural]

Where do you live that a degree takes 6 years? It's generally 3-4 years. And for entry level jobs, you will be competing against people who have dedicated 3-4 years to study the field

[vale anchor]

im a 10th grader, and i want to make money without the degree first

[balmy mural]

So without a degree, you'd need a way to make yourself stand out compared to the 99% of other aplicants who did do their degrees, who possible have some internships under their belt, and who also made projects in their free time

[molten gust]

he

[vale anchor]

i am making projects in my free time.. i just want to find a thing that gives the most output for my own input

[pine sleet]

your best option at the moment is to do well in school, and if you need money, work retail/customer service/food service/etc

[white relic]

everybody wants to find a cheat code for real life. make the big bucks without putting in the time and effort

[pine sleet]

it's 4 years, and 200% worth the time

[white relic]

unfortunately real life cheat codes tend to be stuff like "be born into money"

[vale anchor]

its just the thing that cs isnt rlly worth getting if u work in my country

[white relic]

"start a YouTube channel in early 2009"

[molten gust]

can anyone help me , run my python code on cpanel host?

[pine sleet]

i can't give you accurate advice about your country, but what i can give you is this - you will be competing with people from foreign countries that already have degrees, have many years of work experience in the industry, work for incredibly cheap prices (due to their COL), and have many personal connections that are doing freelancing. you will have to compete with these people. do with that what you will

[white relic]

This channel is for career discussion; try #❓｜how-to-get-help

[pine sleet]

you will have to convince your clients they should hire you for more money compared to the other person they've always hired and has always delivered

[vale anchor]

same thing with jobs tho?? whats the point ur trying to make?

[pine sleet]

for jobs you will only be competing with people in your local area (unless it's remote, but it's generally not recommended for juniors to start remote anyway)

but yes, it is still essentially the same thing for jobs. a CS degree will put you on even ground with your other candidates though, at which point it really just comes down to your skill

but again, not sure how it works in your country

[vale anchor]

lithuania

[white relic]

"blunder into good money in under 4 years without a degree" is not a career plan

[pine sleet]

Can't give you accurate advice about how it works in Lithuania, but what I said still stands. If you can manage to convince clients to hire you instead, then you will make it big

[vale anchor]

im planning on going to uni, but I'm also trying to make money without uni so I can stop working for others for once in my stupid life (freelance makes more money than real jobs in this country btw :P)

[pine sleet]

sadly most people start off by working for other people. you can start your own business later in your career once you've got more experience, though

[vale anchor]

well im not disaggreeing though, u dont understand, is there a place where i could get experience in web design/development doing it for others (idc about the money for first 5 projects anyway)

[pine sleet]

you can try on fiverr & upwork

but also you're going to have to not care about money for a lot more than just 5 projects

[vale anchor]

fiverr requires advertisement, upwork 18+

[pine sleet]

these are the two most popular freelance sites. i'm not sure there are any that fit your requirements

[vale anchor]

not really, if i get clients, the problem IS clients, not the experience

[pine sleet]

experience is needed for clients (that pay a livable wage)

you can probably make a couple dollars off some random guy every now and then though

[pine sleet]

but also, what do you mean by "fiverr requires advertisement"? you're going to have to advertise regardless, either by word of mouth that "hey, this guy is really good at doing whatever you need done" or by paying for adspace

[vale anchor]

by payment i meant.. fiverr u either buy your own stuff to advertise, or u get no reach for 5 months

[pine sleet]

you will have to buy your own stuff to advertise anyway, regardless of where you do freelancing

there are thousands of other people also trying to get clients

[vale anchor]

i guess..

[pine sleet]

trust me. there are a lot of people that come through here asking for advice on freelancing. many people seem to think it's an easy money hack without a lot of work. it's not. if it were, literally everyone would be doing it

[balmy spade]

If freelancing was the easier way to make good money, everyone would be a freelancer.

[pine sleet]

see the most recently pinned message, it summarizes what we've essentially just discussed

[willow basin]

chat has anyone used the itchio library?

[pine sleet]

this is the career discussions channel, you would be better suited asking in #python-discussion

[willow basin]

wait I think wrong channel

[pine sleet]

indeed

[willow basin]

My bad

[pine sleet]

no worries

[gritty rivet]

If you're not even 18, it probably will be a lot more practical to get a normal student job until you're ready for an internship.

[drowsy ridge]

Hello, i want to know about researches

[pine sleet]

what sort of researches

[drowsy ridge]

I want to go in research field. I have a strong academic background and did some in my graduation. I want to pursue it further but don't know where to apply and find experienced professors to work under

Have read about Harvard, but don't have much knowledge about institutes also

[white relic]

You can be a researcher in virtually anything

[drowsy ridge]

Can u explain

[white relic]

What do you want to know or learn about more specifically?

[tulip glade]

Hii guys! lately I’ve been thinking about what I should major in. Two things, cs and med. I don’t know how I should choose. (Btw I’m a freshman in hs) idk how to explore these majors during my free time or how to pick one. What should I do?

[fringe sphinx]

Wow, that's a very personal decision. Have you ever coded?

[tulip glade]

I started to learn a while ago, I know the basics and stuff.

[fringe sphinx]

Did you enjoy it?

And med is a broad field. Perhaps find a way to do both?

[true harness]

learn programming. join stem clubs. take bio and chem (AP if possible)

[tulip glade]

since i was learning off of yt videos, books and websites, it was fun at first learning but then i got bored and procrastinated to continue. however i did apply for a summer program, we'll be learning more coding and doing projects. so if i enjoy this program then ill keep looking into this major.

[tulip glade]

i'm taking bio next year! hopefully that class should help me decide if i can/want to do med or not. I have to officially choose a major by the end of next year so hopefully everything goes well

[fringe sphinx]

It's very normal to not know/to change majors. Embrace it, don't be afraid of it

[true harness]

didn't you say you were a freshman in high school? why do you need to pick a major?

[tulip glade]

we have core classes we can't choose, but every year we have around 4-5 classes we need to choose, it's to help us choose a major by the end of high school. the electives can be for fun but mostly people choose something related to a career they're interested in. like art, cs, engineering, med, math, etc. by the time its senior year and you need to choose a major to apply for colleges most people would know what they want to do. that's why its getting harder.

mostly people try different fields throughout these 4 years, some find out what they like and use these years to study their major more for better opportunities.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, don't stresss it. Many many many University freshman change majors. I did.

[tulip glade]

yeah, i'll just do what i can and see what happens as time goes on.

[wind cedar]

In general with these tech companies, if you apply were in the process with them but got rejected. They’ll reconsider my application when I apply again as long as I have new experiences professionally and in the classroom right? In other words apply with a different resume than before right?

[smoky quest]

Sure, as long as the rejection was in a good standing (ex: didn't cheat, didn't lie, etc)

[fading jewel]

does any1 here major in any enginner major or like electrical / computer enginer

[pine sleet]

there are many such people here. Ask your question

[fading jewel]

i wanted to ask how i can stay ahead and get into top enginnering universitieis like waterloo

[pine sleet]

get good grades at school, stay involved. have leadership positions, stuff like that. prove to the university that you'd be a good fit for them

[pine sleet]

also are you in the US? if so, standardized exams like SAT/ACT are one such facet. another one is the difficulty and grades of your courses. it makes you look good if you take difficult classes (e.g APs, dual enrollment classes) and have A's in all of them

[fading jewel]

in canada. things that matter for us include acitvites and grades

[pine sleet]

well there you go. you know what to work on

[strange pumice]

alright guys recent graduate here, needs tips to penetrate the job market

looking to enter as a software engineer

[fringe sphinx]

Sure, what's the question?

[harsh remnant]

How did y’all get ur first position as a software engineer? Did you just keep applying and hoping someone will respond?

[balmy spade]

I got a job as a support specialist. Took a side-step to an application engineer. Took another side-step into software development.

[fading jewel]

can sum1 help me with my sitatuion. im a 15 yr old and like i belive i am more mature and advanced than kids my age. i have alot of free time and i want to spent it on productive stuff becuz thats how i have fun. im part of two skl clubs, i volunnner at hostpial, i leanred js, python, reactnative and alot of coding stuff. i also do 100 pushups a day. but i still wanna do more. any suggestions>>? dont giive me advice like have fun, i alrdy have fun and want to acctually do useful things

[peak halo]

are you asking here because you want to be a professional programmer, or what?

[fading jewel]

no clue

[peak halo]

this is the career discussion channel on the python server. if you're looking for more general life advice (ie, not career advice), you might want to look elsewhere, or in one of the off-topic channels.

though if you do want advice for what to do as a high schooler who's interested in a career in programming, this would be the place to ask.

[gleaming dock]

learn guitar

[true hatch]

Do software engineers work on weekends?

[balmy spade]

That's entirely going to depend on the situation. I would like to think most commonly the weekends are days off. Workload, job requirements, and many other things will play into that though. There have certainly been weeks I've put in tons of extra time on the weekend.

[true harness]

additionally, being on call may require you to work on weekends to respond to something

[vapid jay]

Depends where you work, in 2 years it's never happened to me

We have some programmers on call in case there are issues with prod deployments but I don't work in that division

[true hatch]

working on weekends is so wack

[balmy spade]

My last vacation was blissful. First one in a few years that I had a team capable of handling on-call for the deployments. Took a while to get there, but worth every step to come back and see how they handled a fire with ease.

[vapid jay]

Where I work the worst you get it is either your job expects weekend work up front or you do at most an overnight shift less than every 6 months

So like just having some weekends required isn't the worst

[true hatch]

do you get money during these hours? Do you get compensated?

[jovial ridge]

Does dicrete math and any other math Often used in your career later on?

[vapid jay]

yeah you get additional compensation

[true hatch]

Like what, money? food?

[vapid jay]

This isn't true at every company

[true harness]

yes

[jovial ridge]

What do you work as?

[vapid jay]

Money, but I think in the US if you're salaried they can choose to not pay you overtime since software developers are considered exempt workers

[true harness]

software engineer intern

[true hatch]

thats a fucking robbery

[jovial ridge]

When would the math be used?

[vapid jay]

I don't agree with it personally, I think it's silly some professions are not paid overtime while salaried and others are

[balmy spade]

It's not robbery if you sign the contract saying you agree to it.

[true hatch]

do i get free food at the office?

[true harness]

for example, an question i had to answer recently: "what kind of index would be best suited for this query and table, btree or BRIN (or a different one altogether?)?"

[true hatch]

idk the food concept at work honestly

[jovial ridge]

Would you reccomend Cs as a major to Someone who's bad at math and is trying to learn? What do you reccomend for highschool students to do if they wanna be in CS?

[true harness]

learn to like math; you will be doing a lot of it as a CS major. not just the traditional track like algebra, geometry, precalc, calc, but have a strong foundation

[true hatch]

Well with hard work, everything is possible

bro its true why

[jovial ridge]

Is there anything you reccomend for students to take? Courses, books, etc.

Is there anything you would've done Or wouldn't if you can go back in time related to your cs Career?

[vapid jay]

Hi everyone, gearing up for a job search after working for my current employer in an industry with a lot of legacy tech for 3 years. I have a list of things I'm learning/brushing up on and I was wondering if anyone had some additional suggestions of things to learn. Looking for full stack gigs. I'm in the US with 3 YoE unfortunately a lot of it with older finance tech.

CSS
React/Redux
Typescript
Express
MongoDB
Node
PostgreSQL
Docker
OOP design patterns (i.e. gang of four)
Grinding leetcode/dsa
Bash and various utilities i.e. sed and awk
Might learn Spring as well, not sure if useful since I'm doing node atm anyway

[balmy spade]

I see nothing but applicable skills here. I don't think you have much to worry about. Just keep interested. Keep building side projects. Poking at new ideas and new ways to accomplish them.

[true harness]

in high school it genuinely doesn't matter that much; the things you do in college will be much more valuable and deeper. the priority would be keeping your grades up and getting into a good school. on the side though, learning programming would be the best way to prepare. CS isn't about learning programming languages, but pretty much everything in CS is expressed with programming, so it is important to have a strong programming ability

[vapid jay]

Regarding applying to jobs, I'm planning on just getting really good at those + postgreSQL. Should I pick up other back end langs? I'd rather just focus on one tbh and hope that employers let me learn alternatives on the job.

It seems near where I live most jobs have similar frameworks to those or a little different (i.e. angular, maybe java spring instead of node, etc. but I've done java in college)

[true hatch]

do i need to learn coding before uni? or can i just learn it at cs uni

[true harness]

"need" is a strong word. around a third of freshmen have not taken a programming course before. but that's not to say that it won't help you. i would recommend it if possible, it's fun 😌

[balmy spade]

You have 3 years experience working. That's value. Go deep in your domain. If there's a adjacent domain of interest (maybe cli/tooling from your list?) then start exploring it. You already know how tranferable our skills are between languages/projects.

[true hatch]

it is not fun bro

[true harness]

if programming is not fun for you, maybe reevaluate if you want to do CS?

[vapid jay]

It helps but not necessary at all. If anything you're going to want to be familiar with math so you can skip precalculus courses and not take remedial math classes.

[true hatch]

i wanna be a software engineer bc of the bands(cash)

[jovial ridge]

There's a computer class in our school.

But for jobs, is it more important to learn theoretical knowledge or practical knowledge? In our country we can choose Either D4(Mostly Practical Appliable Knowledge) or S1(A Slightly Higher in terms class, and Also more theoretical)

[vapid jay]

I'd do accounting or something else instead

[true hatch]

why?

[vapid jay]

You're going to be competing with people interested in CS as a subject and if you have no interest beyond money, you probably will get out competed

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with the above. Freshman year can be tough: calculus and intro to programming can be overwhelming.

So, anything you can do to make it easier is a good thing. Not necessary but helpful.

[true harness]

both are important. in my opinion, it's easier to learn practical skills on your own, so i would do the more theoretical course and learn the practical stuff on my own. additionally, school courses are always behind on the latest tech, while the theoretical stuff is mostly set in stone, so you won't really be learning outdated info if you take the theoretical course

[true hatch]

look, im interested in it bc my pops want me do CS

[vapid jay]

This is not a good reason to pick a college major

[true hatch]

yes it is

[vapid jay]

whatever

[fringe sphinx]

It's a good choice if you have no other preference. Many college students change majors, or pick complementary minors (ie: finance)

[hearty mango]

[fringe sphinx]

And, programming in general is used in many non-CS majors, so learning it has benefits

[true hatch]

the thing is i don't have any interests, so i can't be sure of a major

[true harness]

yeah. programming is possibly the most marketable skill these days

[jovial ridge]

I don't think they're that behind in technology. But the teacher here sucks (i would probably say im more knowledgeable Than them)
But do you recommend me taking a Course outside school?

Btw, D4 and S1 is college

[fringe sphinx]

I'd say: learn a little about a lot of topics. but don't grind.

[true hatch]

ive always loved commentary

[fringe sphinx]

Wdym?

[true harness]

if you're not getting what you need to learn from school, then you should supplement it with something else. whether that's an online course or reading through textbooks yourself, it doesn't matter that much

[true hatch]

like the guy on tv who explains what tf is going on in an nba game (like: SLAM DUNK BY LEBRON JAMES)

[true harness]

aren't those usually retired players?

[true hatch]

i like sport commentators

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, yah. Maybe pick up some history of science books: school had a way of making science and math and computing boring, but the history (commentary) is fascinating

[true hatch]

how can i be a sports commentator?

[jovial ridge]

Im currently watching Full course Python on youtube By Brocode (hard to learn often because Of school)

I feel like it's a good one Other than some confusions i usually get and Just often asked ChatGpt for an explanation.

But for now i don't know what career to take, my school psychology test said anything in IT and Astronomy, but I don't know what IT jobs to take. How do i know which one fits me?

[fringe sphinx]

lol, who knows. Why would you ask us that?

[true hatch]

idk, I'd maybe also like to be a lawyer or programmer

[fringe sphinx]

Why not all three?

[true hatch]

school

[fringe sphinx]

CS undergrad with a minor in broadcast journalism, followed by law school.

[high coral]

sounds painful

[true harness]

school will be necessary for pretty much every "desirable" job. even if it's trade school, you need to learn how to do the job

[true hatch]

fax

[jovial ridge]

You should probably try to find out what you wanna do first to be honest. I'm one of the lucky one who knows what i wanna do after highschool and college, but many people isn't like that and Ended up Not having any jobs or Having the major they hate for college @true hatch

[fringe sphinx]

Meh, in high school, I thought I wanted a non science major until senior year, then went EE, hated it and switched to CS

[true harness]

i'm not really sure how to answer that, since i kinda don't know myself. but i would say to research the specific jobs and look for what they do

[fringe sphinx]

Some people just don't know.

[high coral]

i was in a similar boat

[fringe sphinx]

Have a family member who went ME, also hated it, and ended up in law school

(And loves it)

[jovial ridge]

How do you get into software engineering?

[jovial ridge]

I'm already focused on learning IT since i was in middle school. I was practically born Into a Computer Environment and has always liked whatever was related to it, I don't see myself changing soon

[fringe sphinx]

🔥 that's great!

[true hatch]

my dad is an electrical engineer

[fringe sphinx]

IMO; CS is good because there are many career paths... it's not like there's only one type of job.

And, you can specialize in grad school if you want.

[jovial ridge]

Does america have a different type of IT major to take? There's so many IT based major in my country, Some Business based, Science based, etc

[true hatch]

@fringe sphinx just if you wanted to know. My favorite uncle went to majored in CS, but he dropped out bc it was too hard for him, he now folds clothes at H&M.

[true harness]

some schools have something similar, they have "hybrid" majors that combine two different majors, like CS and physics, or whatever

[fringe sphinx]

I did terrible at college when I first went, so terrible so I ended up in the military.

It all worked out. But, college is hard. Freshman attrition rates are surprisingly high

[jovial ridge]

Lol, American culture is so different than my country. You guys ended up in military For what considered to be A failure, and People here would pay money to bribe and get in the military

[fringe sphinx]

https://research.com/universities-colleges/college-dropout-rates

[true hatch]

you do have a CS degree, right?

[jovial ridge]

But I would probably prefer working for an american company If possible. IT Workers pay Sucks here...

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, and graduate degree

[jovial ridge]

What do you work as now?

[true hatch]

do you get scholarship if you go to military?

[pine sleet]

i believe under some conditions, once you get out of service, you do get your education paid for, at least in part (among other perks)

not sure if there's a certain amount of time you have to serve for or what the conditions are

[true hatch]

jackpot

[pine sleet]

but those that have served get a bunch of perks that's highly useful to kickstart a career

[pine sleet]

also IT workers generally don't get paid as much as, say, software engineers

though they still make way more than the average

[jovial ridge]

I thought they were in the same category?

[pine sleet]

what category?

[jovial ridge]

Software engineer, as the IT workers?

[pine sleet]

i'm not sure what you mean by that, but at least in the US IT and SWE are not the same thing

[fringe sphinx]

SWE

[true hatch]

when there are seeds in this Shiii

[pine sleet]

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, in us there's something called GI Bill, plus many state universities have free tuition for vets, etc

[true hatch]

even stanford?

[jovial ridge]

Didn't know, but most IT workers make more than Software engineers in my country

[fringe sphinx]

Stanford is a private institution. Gi bill might help offset some of the credits, though

[true hatch]

stanford my dream school

[true hatch]

is double majoring worth it?

[deft herald]

It depends. Sometimes all it takes is adding a couple of classes and being strategic about you electives

Definitely something to talk to your advisor about.

[true hatch]

i wanna do finance & Cs at the same time

[deft herald]

Cool. Those would definitely mesh well together. Are you still in high school?

[true hatch]

nahh middle

[deft herald]

Oh yeah I remember you from before

Too early to worry about what you're going to major in, haha. You might completely change your mind in 4 years

[true hatch]

i should disble my discord account and do something useful

[deft herald]

Was just scrolling up and saw your dad is an EE. That was actually my degree too but I ended up as more of a software guy

[true hatch]

ohhh nice man

[deft herald]

EE was really fun actually. I loved all the engineering classes (except for thermodynamics)

[true hatch]

the thing im scared about CS is that my favorite uncle went to majored in CS, but he dropped out bc it was too hard for him, he now folds clothes at H&M.

[deft herald]

I mean many people give up because something is hard. That's not going to be you though

[true hatch]

Why do you say that?

[deft herald]

Just trying to say you don't have to have the same story

[round ledge]

Guys I have a problem pls help!!

[true hatch]

ohhh, smart guy

[deft herald]

K

[round ledge]

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1231802801873752085

[gaunt burrow]

is anyone current or previous military (i am looking into going into the military preferably for cyber security after i finish school but i don’t know if that’s a option available)

[summer roost]

you'll probably need to specify what country's military you're thinking of joining, and what level of schooling you're talking about

[kindred oyster]

ummm, <@&831776746206265384> promoting a pirated app ?

[still condor]

!cban @alpine merlin Spread your shady software somewhere else

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @alpine merlin permanently.

[tardy birch]

anyone working in industry or anyone could tell me what is day to day task of python automation engineer role

[shy sigil]

@smoky quest Please elaborate #python-discussion message

[smoky quest]

Education >>>> experience.
Better education yield more opportunities, which yield even better experience, which opens even more interesting doors.

Plus there is the whole thing about things you don't know you don't know

[shy sigil]

Alright, I've taken your point about opportunities and paper qualification
But if you've actually worked the role you're applying for in another company, versus something who's sat in CS theory for 2 years, why would a reasonable person hire the latter

[smoky quest]

you would not have gotten that opportunity in the first place. That's just a false comparison

it's like saying: what if you had the very same position without a degree? Truth is you would not have had that opportunity

[shy sigil]

What opportunity? We're talking about the applying-for-job stage
Everybody can apply

[smoky quest]

And what skills would you have acquired during that equivalent year that would be equivalent to someone with a masters?

[shy sigil]

The same skills I'd be using but under a different company's name, and maybe I'd learn some more in the new company
Whereas that master's person wouldn't have had those skills to begin with

Isn't it possible someone has gone through undergrad and university without any version control tooling knowledge at all?

[smoky quest]

lol no.
If you are hired to write some frontend code, you would not be developing any compiler or ML related skills. You would be developing frontend related skills.

[shy sigil]

Right, do they teach the hot new frontend frameworks in masters?

[smoky quest]

version control is something that can be learned in one afternoon. That would be a waste of university time.
Furthermore, many university incorporate these in the projects

[shy sigil]

Version control was one example, anyways I must leave now
But I'll be glad to read any points that haven't been shared - for now I still don't see what a person with masters has thats so useful skill-wise

[smoky quest]

that's something universities also do as part of some projects. But again that's the easy thing anyone can learn in a day

[shy sigil]

Nuh-uh. Learning a frontend framework is NOT a one-day task

[smoky quest]

skills issue

any professional engineer can learn a new language or framework in a day or so. That's the easy part. No one cares about it

[near ocean]

People wouldnt be asking for years of exp in x tech if it was easy to pick up in a day

[smoky quest]

yet people with python skills get hired in scala jobs. Or any language

It's a proxy based on the current stack they use.

[near ocean]

If a company is willing to set out a period for people to train to catch up in ability to their other employees thats their own prerogative

[vapid jay]

One day to be committing a meaningful amount in a completely new lang/framework is a bit delusional

[near ocean]

It doesnt happen in a day or even a week

[smoky quest]

I guess our experiences differ in different markets

People who would be afraid of changing languages in a short time wouldn't fare well

[vapid jay]

where I work it would be difficult to even understand the what the bug or feature are asking you to do within a day

[smoky quest]

congrats!

[vapid jay]

That's not a flex I just think at most jobs that interact with another field i.e. finance/banking/healthcare this is not my exp or people I've talked to

It also sets a very unrealistic standard. If you learn javascript within a day as someone whose been doing python for 3 years, your javascript is dogshit

I'm not trying to be rude that's just insane to say it's a single day

[smoky quest]

no one said you would write perfectly idiomatic code leveraging all the nuances and subtleties of the language.
But you should be able to write code in it and get the gist of it.

There is also a reason companies are hiring "software engineers" and not "python engineer" or "java engineer". The very limited cases where it's valid is when they look for someone who have very specific experience and skills they mush acquire (ex: tuning the JVM)

[vapid jay]

1 day is still an absurd timeline

[smoky quest]

skills issue

[vapid jay]

I'm not even arguing that you hire for general SDE skill rather than stack, I'm saying that the timeline you gave is very unrealistic for anything beyond toy programs

[near ocean]

Maybe you should lead with this instead of "skill issue" then

[smoky quest]

languages are just tools, not end in themselves. What matters are the skills used to build stuff, be it DBs, backends or anything else

[vapid jay]

Alright bro go work in haskell after only being a python programmer in a day

[shy sigil]

I can see the point about being able to do something with the language in 1 day,
but your point was also high paying jobs available for people with masters, I'm not sure high pay is what you get from one day of javascript regardless of your educational background

[smoky quest]

Again, what matters is what you do with it, not the language

By the time you graduate, you will have seen a few languages already

[vapid jay]

Of course if you're Geohotz they'll hire you beacuse you're geohotz

[shy sigil]

Sure, but not javascript
Why wouldn't I prefer the person who's been using it in an actual job for a year for something similar to our needs

[near ocean]

I cant tell if this is serious talk or shittalking

[vapid jay]

but geohotz is not writing useful idiomatic code within a specialized domain in a different programming paradigm within a day or probably even a week

Of course you hire for overall skill at the end of the day your timeline is ridiculous and saying skill issue just makes you sound like a nonce

[smoky quest]

Exactly! Ask yourself why?
Because it's not about the language but what they did with it. Obviously someone who did exactly what we do in the language that we do and has better skill overall would have higher chances.

[smoky quest]

not sure which market you are in. But in both EU and USA and Asia, it has been a normal thing in my networks. We take that for granted.
So arguing against that does not paint you in the best of light

[shy sigil]

Yes, that is what my initial point was 🤔
With no animosity in the question: what is being imparted from the masters that's almost as valuable skill-wise (not opportunity wise)?

[smoky quest]

The math, abstract thinking and the competition.
For ML job, I only get people with MS. All of them with awesome internships and projects. Your chances to stand out would be slim.

[vapid jay]

Right and that involves domain specific knowledge of ML

[smoky quest]

Indeed. And for ML, I won't care if they used python or R or matlab. Or torch or tensorflow or jax

[shy sigil]

Ah, for a field like ML/DL/AI/DS I wasn't considering and I kinda agree about the power of masters
You brought up frontend/software-engineering though, and thats also what I was initially thinking of

[vapid jay]

So they already have the exact domain specific experience that you're asking for and you're only swapping between mostly similar languages that are within the same paradigm roughly

[shy sigil]

A no-maths field basically

[smoky quest]

I did specify for more advanced field like ML and compilers.
In terms of backend, there is a benefit when you combine it with other things like large scale.

In general, don't go for a masters to compete with bootcamp/bsc. That would be a waste

[shy sigil]

So basically masters is extremely valuable skill-wise for ML/DL/AI/DS
Not so much for frontend/backend, and someone with work experience will have a better chance

[smoky quest]

less so for frontend, but backend could benefit for masters, assuming you don't just do a crud app.
There are also far more fields out there beyond frontend/backend/ML. There are programming languages, optimizations, cryptography and all sorts of areas

[rough kindle]

#SaveHumanityFromExtinction #SaveEarth

[smoky quest]

any question or topic related to careers?

[smoky quest]

oh and to be clear, it's not that someone with experience will have more chances (I would disagree), but more so that if you go for jobs that bsc/bootcamp apply, then your compensation would be adjusted accordingly. The goal is to aim for what you would be uniquely positioned to do.

[vapid jay]

Good morning everyone! ✨
I wanted to ask if someone could kindly advise me on what I should start learning if I want to become a good data scientist. I only know a bit about programming, mainly R and C++ (and very little Python). Any advice on what I should do first? Many people told me that I should learn SQL... Is that right? (btw I don't know if this is the right chat to discuss this topic 🥲 )

[smoky quest]

SQL is great to learn for data science!
I would also encourage you to check #data-science-and-ml and its pinned resources.

[vapid jay]

Thank you!

[sweet lintel]

HI

I am new to python, I am currently learning it from Bro Code, I don't know anything else lol

[umbral frigate]

!res Check out Corey Schafer's Python Programming Beginner Tutorials.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vernal terrace]

Is there any field related of machine learning in biomedical engineering?

What about neuroscience?

Hmm

I am learning machine learning by myself so needed an advice on which fields i can pursue for master that are related to ML

Ok no problem

[fringe sphinx]

What are your choices for Masters programs?

There's not going to be too many choices, I'd think.

[vernal terrace]

I honestly have no idea but i think if the field is programming related then good

Cause the entire field is based on electronics and the only thing i have found is neuroscience

[fringe sphinx]

Have you finished your bachelors?

[kindred oyster]

i would say that going with electronics (i think there is the biomedical option for it) is a totally valid option tbh. Its not that strange for people having a related field degree like electronics to jump into IT. (given that you learn the skills necessary on your own time)

[vernal terrace]

Nope

[vapid jay]

Hey all, I am soon starting a bootcamp which includes programming in python. Can you guys please tell me some useful online links as a starter where I can learn the basics until my course starts?
Thanks in advance 🙂

[kindred oyster]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[buoyant seal]

https://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Python-Brain-Friendly-Guide/dp/1492051292
Very brain frendly and should be easy to remember as any other Head First book, as long as u don't skip exercises too much.

[kindred oyster]

filter for beginner on here

people usually recommand the automate the boring stuff with python free ebook
if you like videos, i recommand corey schafer on youtube

[vapid jay]

Thanks a lot 🙂

[kindred oyster]

can we get a thread or smth for this guy ?
every time i open this channel seeing what people are asking and i see this propagation with his personal updates 😂

[whole flare]

let the dude cook

[kindred oyster]

i agree that the stats are indeed useful for people
i dont mean that you should stop , i just mean that its a bit too frequent/much
it would be great if there was a thread or smth for this stats updates so that people who want to follow it can follow it without occupying the whole channel

the last message of the stats , sure
but would you agree that you have been giving constant updates about where you have been personally applying , where you have been rejected and what not even before you made this excel sheet ?
i also dont see how these updates are on topic , but since mods dont say anything i assume they are on topic 🤷‍♂️

[viral dragon]

are there any courses that help with getting a job?

[kindred oyster]

depends on what field interests you
but in 99% of the cases, getting a Bachelor's or similar degree will be the most straightforward way

[viral dragon]

can i return to you in like a few hours?

[viral dragon]

the job isn't for me its for my uncle

[kindred oyster]

sure
this channel is open for all , just post the question here and anyone who is online and has time will answer

[viral dragon]

thanks

[open ivy]

The skills that make someone good at getting a job are very different than the skills that are useful on the job.

This means that there are quite a few unemployed programmers who are actually very good and passionate about the art of coding. Being unemployed, many have more free time than those on the clock. But how can I find them and reach out to them for a virtual chat?

[red cape]

By the way, how long will it take to grasp all of the basics? For example, if I learn 1 hour per day

[red cape]

What about masters any benefits?

[kindred oyster]

not required to get entry into IT, no

lots of things about doing master's is weighing its pros and cons and choosing the option that makes more sense

(having a masters is obviously better than a bachlores and can beneifit you in many ways , but it might not always make sense )

[vapid jay]

Anyone here take the ap csp exam in hs?

[buoyant seal]

It is very hard for me to make quantified answer to such question for a reason that there are a lot of human/motivational factors
and also lack of definition what are basics does not help. Basics for what?

I can answer that if we erase all python knowledge out of my head, i will be able to reread within one weekends this book.
I can answer that my mother that learns programming too will not be able to read this book even in entire year because she lacks a motivation to complete any programming related stuff. She would forget material sooner than she reads.
Anyway this is a beginner book so i expect... a person with previous programming experience to consume it within a week of time
A person without programming experience could be consuming it for month/months of time

[buoyant seal]

I can add here... that Book alone does not teach all basics... the road is longer, and getting used to practicing programming is even longer. Using Python at practice has a lot of traps ahead.
So.... it can take a indeed months of time for complete beginner to go through it.

[red cape]

I was thinking if getting used to practicing programming is worth it because even if I complete 3 projects, it does not guarantee an entry job in it

[buoyant seal]

Consider getting higher education regarding programming (Bachelor's degree at least). it is path of least resistance and in average even half of graduates work by their specialty (if they actually completed on their own programming related stuff and got used to it as well as did not forget too much fundamentals)

[red cape]

[vapid jay]

Coding is making me feel so dumb I hate it. But I like data structures and algos

[white relic]

Getting a job is like dating.
Nothing you do will guarantee a job, but there are things you can do that make you more attractive to potential employers and more likely to be hired. One of the most impactful things you can do is get a bachelor's degree in CS or a related discipline, as Darkwind says, it is the path of least resistance.
Even then, also like dating, it's a numbers game, to put yourself out there and get your resume in front of enough people that you maximize the chances it hits the right person's desk at the right time. It's not about doing enough projects that you can get any job you want

[buoyant seal]

We can mention what are other attractive things people can do to maximize their chances. That will be helpful to do even if they are getting degree

• Self studying during university and learning some language and ecosystem around of it, using in projects
  • Besides just learning lang itself, can be helpful to learn fluff of technologies to specific job role, if u managed to discovery what u like
• Making portfolio of projects and/or contributing to open source
• Learining core software subjects that potentially were no covered during regular studies but can be nevertheless cricial for job roles aimed ( Code Complete besides telling some aspects in detail, makes short overview for majority of them as well as recommending what to read next)
• getting internships
• participating in hackatons and other competions

[viral dragon]

how can i get applied to work at intel?

anyone?

please?

[fringe sphinx]

https://jobs.intel.com

[kindred oyster]

try to get into college where intel comes to hire students
or
do some hardwork, build an exceptional resume , and apply for internship whilest you are pursuing your degree from any college
or
work in some other companies first , get some experience , and then apply at intel for a job

[viral dragon]

thank you so much'

[analog river]

Hey guys. I'm currently learning python, I just began btw. My background is in automotive, and i'd like to know what kind of opportunities combine automotive experience along with python programming. Thanks

I'm getting older and ready to do something different but want to stay in my field. Tired of the heavy lifting

[white relic]

I bet not many people here are in the automotive industry. If you've been in the industry a while, I bet your contacts would be able to give you a better sense of the landscape.
That said, just to speculate, Python is used a lot for data analysis/visualization, so it could pop up in physical/material simulations or industrial automation, for example.
I did an internship at a factory where I wrote visualization tools for tracking when and how often various tools went offline. (Wasn't in Python at the time but it would be now)

Many people whose job title ends in "engineer" probably use programming frequently and some may use Python.

[analog river]

Thanks for the tip. I appreciate it

[vapid jay]

Anyone done the CompTIA thing? Is it worth it or is it comparable to a bartenders license?

[white relic]

CompTIA offers quite a few certifications, some of which are relevant to IT work, none (afaik) are particularly relevant to Python. Which were you thinking about and for what kind of work?

[pine sleet]

it's kind of like a bartender's license, if you do bartending. except instead of bartending it's for IT/helpdesk type stuff

but like trent mentioned it's not too important for SWE

[vapid jay]

My former school was testing on CompTIA so it's essentially the A+ and network security portion. The networking stuff was over extrapolated which began my questioning of the CompTIA testing efficiency. So as far as my question goes, we can leave it at the A+ exam

[vapid jay]

Yeah that's what I thought. I'm not interested in IT fields which is what the A+ exam seems to focus on.

[analog river]

Are there certifications for Python? If so, which are the essentials?

[peak halo]

For python development in general, there aren't any that would impact your hiring potential.

[deft herald]

Other than some sort of degree

[vapid jay]

I don't believe there are any for Python in particular. It was the first language I was exposed to on a Uni level.

I say that because they just sort of pitch it without needing aforementioned credits or the like. It's a simple high-level language for a reason.

It is however a great bridge into OOP in general and I'm certain there are plenty of certs for C# or C++ or whatever

[pine sleet]

there aren't, afaik

[vapid jay]

Really? That's very surprising, I will search engine that right away

[pine sleet]

in general it's hard to accurate judge the competency level of a developer just from a single exam

[smoky quest]

What you do with the language matters more than the language itself

[vapid jay]

Is that because of the applicative nature of programming? What exactly forbids from testing on particular languages then? I'm very curious

Because if they don't test on C++ or C# in general, and they I mean local colleges or what have you, then why not? *

[smoky quest]

what do you mean?

[vapid jay]

Just why not test someone on C++ or C# in particular? Is it just because programming as a field can be applied to so many areas that it's just not wise to test on those languages?

[smoky quest]

because anyone can pick up a new language in a matter of a day. That's not the hard part.
The hard part is what you do with them, like building youtube at scale with caches and CDNs and all sorts of distributed problems.
As such restricting yourself to a very specific stack means loosing potentially great candidates

[vapid jay]

That's a really good point. I'm brand new to all this btw. I do see what you mean

How do you measure a programmer then? What do you think is the best qualities to have?

[smoky quest]

Unless the company seeks very specific skills (ex: JVM tuning), they will look broadly. That's why most folks are "software engineer" and not "react/js engineer"

[pine sleet]

you can test someone on how they use a hammer, but that doesn't mean they're a good carpenter

tbh i would probably score a perfect score on using a hammer

[digital fjord]

How do you measure a programmer is largely an open problem in hiring.

[vapid jay]

Literally law of the instrument manifested, I do agree

[smoky quest]

You would try to assess the required skills for the job through various tests and questions (leetcode, system design, behavioral, etc.)

[vapid jay]

Alright, then from the programmers point of view, how do you gauge your own ability to respond to potential jobs? They certainly vary in their degree of responsibility, so what advice would you give here in the career channel to an apsiring programmer like myself to not waste anyones time?

Honeslty with the little I know I think I'm barking up the wrong tree but I would love to know

Maybe I'm hinting toward a bigger confidence problem than an intellectual one

[digital fjord]

the usual advice to just apply, the company knows what they want better than you do and are equiped to handle your application.

[pine sleet]

you won't be wasting their time unless a job is completely unsuited to you. you should be fine if you just go by gut, "this job looks like i could do it, or learn how to do it", if you feel that way just apply

[vapid jay]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it

[pine sleet]

essentially don't gatekeep yourself from applying

[vapid jay]

Fug yeah, much appreciated, back to work !

[hard needle]

hi everyone
i have a simple question about fiverr
i have 2 fiverr account
1st one rating is 4.5 and the other one is fresh without any rating
and both accounts are dead.
what do you suggest me on which account i start works?

[lost cypress]

what exactly am I supposed to put at "Year Acquired" and "Date Acquired"

especially considering I am still in my bachelor's degree that I am pursuing

[smoky quest]

I would put the expected year/date

[lost cypress]

for both sections? @smoky quest

idk why they asked both but who knows lol

[smoky quest]

probably, yeah

[lost cypress]

thank you

[true harness]

is this oracle. or an oracle application thing

[lost cypress]

yea

[pliant sail]

I need to sent messages to be able to talk in vc

[smoky quest]

Let's not try to spam to go around it

[pliant sail]

can't I just prove that I am a nerd?

[smoky quest]

have normal interactions and you will do fine

[pliant sail]

where can I talk to nerds about a project that I am willing to start
I need to vertify if python is the correct langu for my project

[minor sage]

#python-discussion

[true harness]

their auto parsing thing sucks so much. and removing the skills takes so long 😒

[drowsy glade]

what is python generally used for?\

[deft herald]

Generally? Programming

[snow patrol]

development

[silver jacinth]

is my resume better now

posted my old one awhile ago

[true harness]

it is improved, but still does not describe your work experience or projects in a way that makes people want to hire you. your bullets should be detailed enough that the reader actually knows specifically what you contributed and what you achieved. none of your bullet points do that.

as an example, consider "Improve Backend Functionality". this says essentially nothing. you could have refactored the entire codebase and sped everything up by 2x, but without actually saying that, the reader has no way to know.

what i'm saying is that you should brag about yourself in your resume, that's what it's for. if you've done something cool, it should be featured in a bullet point

[silver jacinth]

I see

thanks

[true harness]

this is essentially the same advice you got for the last version, btw

[silver jacinth]

but there's limited space

If I were to do a long list I will run out of space

[true harness]

correct, there's always a tradeoff. but in your case, you can definitely add more. you can also do things like decrease font size, reduce the padding between the bullet dot and the start of the text, decrease margins, and so on

[silver jacinth]

font is 12

margin is 8" 11.5" which everyone says is the recommended margins for a cv in canada

[true harness]

i mean just look at all this space you're not using

[silver jacinth]

I'll try and revise it

[fringe sphinx]

It's definitely a step in the right direction though / but I do agree with PSV. Take a look at some other resumes for ideas of what normal looks like.

[orchid vessel]

is anyone good at python and can help me with something thats not working ?

[fringe sphinx]

Ask in #python-discussion plz

[umbral osprey]

Stop leaking government military documents!

[near ocean]

did you list scalping on ebay as work experience

[silver jacinth]

I only farmed giveaway sites basically

then sold everything on a ton of different accounts, the one I listed is a smaller one so no taxes

mostly from this https://www.pluginboutique.com/

[hearty island]

i'm actually planning to do a masters in finance

[buoyant seal]

Backend development, data science, machine learning, DevOps engineering, system administration, data engineering and even QA at least.
May be for smth more.

Tldr: for server side web apps, science, modern AI hype, scripting, tossing data around and testing things do work.

[hearty island]

i don't see a future for me as an MSBA

[silver jacinth]

become a professional wsb regard with it

[hearty island]

what? oh wall street bets

[silver jacinth]

post your dds on wsb, then inverse it

[hearty island]

post your due diligence on wall street bets?

[silver jacinth]

indeed

[hearty island]

lol

[true harness]

you have added more words, which is a start, but you should focus on adding details. changing "codebase" to "stack application" has made it more wordy, but hasn't conveyed more information. a standard framework is the "STAR method"

[silver jacinth]

In french there won't be enough space

[fringe sphinx]

Welcome to the frustrating world of resume writing. It's either too short or too long, too vague or too specific 🙂

You're on the right path. A few more iterations and you'll be good.

[true harness]

are you sure this is 12 point font? somehow it looks a lot bigger. and you can adjust the space between the actual bullet point and the rest of the bullet

this is a decent example of how much information you'd expect to see. it describes why and how the tasks were accomplished

[hearty island]

any advice for a risk analyst second round interview in finance? (major shot in the dark)

[silver jacinth]

majority of it is font 12

[true harness]

i would play around with that to fit more detail

[hearty island]

what's different from a first round compared to a second round?
they'll probably go more in-depth on the resume
kick the tires
see if anything falls out

[fringe sphinx]

My usual advice. Be comfortable not knowing the answers. Show curiosity and engage the interviewer, rather than trying to fake it.

[hearty island]

i'm going to try and prepare myself by reading up a few chapters on risk mgt. Risk Management and Financial Institutions by John C Hull could do the trick.

i have till next tuesday, which is the date of the interview, to prepare.

[fringe sphinx]

Might be more worth focusing on the broader finance landscape rather than risk mgmt. There's no reason to expect you to know anything about risk management, that's all learnable/trainable. But, they'd probably hope you understand basics about the markets.

Maybe read about some of the catastrophic market failures.

They're fun examples of when risk management doesn't manage risk.

[hearty island]

right, i've started watching videos on that 2007-2009 credit crisis, lehman brothers, northern rock, and continental illinois

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, that's great stuff. The GME and Madoff netflix (I think?) specials are also really good.

[hearty island]

i was honestly thinking of saying something like the reason why i like finance so much is bc of my finance 110 class where my prof explained securitization. opened my eyes into a whole new world

[fringe sphinx]

Despite working largely in finance now, I find little joy in the subject (I enjoy solving problems, but I have zero interest in doing what my customers do)

[hearty island]

his passion for finance kinda augmented my own and that's why i want to do a masters in finance

i actually liked learning about finance a lot and the class was decently challenging

[fringe sphinx]

I get along well with my customers. They don't want to do what I do, and I don't want to do what they do 🙂

[signal meteor]

Who can do C++

[astral whale]

I'm thinking about earning money via a job in my own country, and then saving it so that I could leave my country and do MS in data analysis, and I'm fine with any college abroad. I just want to study abroad that what matters to me... Can anyone tell me. What I need to do in advance for this plan to come true?

[smoky quest]

look up the acceptance criteria for international students in the countries of your choice

[astral whale]

How to check that?

[smoky quest]

you google the countries and international students

[astral whale]

Oh

[smoky quest]

each country is different. So there is no unique answer

[astral whale]

What country do you live in?

[astral whale]

Can you give me an example for that, like what does that actually means

[smoky quest]

I don't have the time, energy nor interest.
Try to think about what international students have to do? They have to google schools in the country, look for their international students pages, etc.
In addition, each country may have international students visas requirements

[astral whale]

Ok but why you're getting annoyed

[smoky quest]

am not annoyed. I just don't have time, energy or interest in doing all the leg work for people

[gritty rivet]

Start researching where you might apply.

If you have the money to pay and you have a pulse, then you will find schools willing to take your money without much trouble. Of course it's better to find a more selective program if you are a stronger applicant.

[astral whale]

Okay

[hearty island]

is it a bad idea to ask a recruiter what kinds of qs i would be expecting for the second round?

[deft herald]

No it's not a bad idea. I started doing that for every interview last time i was looking

Worst that can happen is they just say "read the job description"

[cinder fossil]

eheheh I wish non-tech folks understood this. my family was massively disappointed that I refused a job that pays 50% more, because I'm much happier with my current autonomy and work/life balance. but because I work in finance, they all have this assumption that I massively care about money, and constantly ask me stuff I wouldn't/shouldn't know

[white relic]

No, it is a good idea. Like Meltz said worst that can happen is they say no

[vapid jay]

these things take time. it is rare for someone to get to a professional level in 6 months. expect your journey to take a lot longer too (around a year or two of intense study if you're looking to be a professional frontend dev), as you are a beginner.
as for homelessness, can you pick up a few shitty jobs like mcdonalds, retail, nursing home care, mall security, etc to stay afloat? it's unrealistic to expect such fast progress, but then again, there might be jobs in your area or remote jobs that just need some simple things like wordpress, a cms, html/css updates.

for your study, focus on the fundamentals.
i've heard good things about these courses:
https://www.theodinproject.com/paths/foundations/courses/foundations
https://www.theodinproject.com/paths/full-stack-ruby-on-rails/courses/intermediate-html-and-css
for advanced study: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML

[tender perch]

Hello all, here is a question:
Almost everytime I see python developer job offer it tends to have some sort of data / ai requirements , so is it really safe to specialize in web python, are there enough jobs, is the momentum actually good for job creation (do people adopt flask, fastapi & django well enough to get a job in like 2 weeks).
I mean is it secure for finding jobs like .net or java ? I would like to avoid those.
Please, I'd like answer from different parts of the world, remote workers among experienced professionals of course.
Do you think it is saturated ?

[peak halo]

The reason that so many jobs involving Python also involve AI is that virtually every job involving AI requires Python. But not the other way around. There are also Python jobs that don't involve AI, but they're essentially an entirely separate job family whose growth and shrinkage are determined by different factors than AI jobs.
That's the only part of your question I can effectively comment on. I'm an AI scientist in the US.

[tender perch]

Thanks for that info , it is another building block in the idea I'm making myself.

[buoyant seal]

Python is super popular. there is shit ton of jobs for shoveling backend in python. u can be sure being secure that u will not run out of python things to do as non AI dev
u can be also secure that Java jobs will be also available within 50 next year. Some would say Java is a future COBOL 😄

i learned Python and Golang, and curiously learning Java personally. Interested in more quality long term maintained development enough so that i am willing to pay all prices for Java 🤔

you can make big projects in Python, Javascript/Typescript too, writing codebases for million of code lines
But it can be more enjoyable to maintain static typed code base for such large amount instead, in which case it can be easier going with Java/Golang
It depends on your taste. Some do like dynamic typed languages more. Some do like more static typed strict stuff

I personally very productive in writing code in strictly typed languages. if code i write is going to be program more than 100 code lines... i prefer not using interpreted language if i have a choice (this choice is not often present, in which case i have to use interpreted languages too)

[tender perch]

I like java and go,but I want to brand myself as a python dev first, I know static typing is enjoyable but I have invested a lot of time in python already, I want to push it to a career I know java but I will have to go back to be less skilled

[buoyant seal]

I am afraid to touch .Net because it has too much Windows legacy. it shifted to open source and linux support last 5+ years, but i still dont trust them enough.
All modern backend runs in linux and it is very important for writing good software. I don't trust C# ecosystem to do it. Also C# devs are more often using Visual Studio that is avilable only at Windows and often using Azure (not wishing to use azure too as devops engineer)
I can trust Python, Golang and Java ecosystems to be Linux friendly and even linux first. (when used for backend stuff)

[buoyant seal]

Python is very specific thing as well. Easy to get started, hard to master.
Question yourself if your python skill is indeed that much ahead of Java ^_^

[vapid jay]

I'm starting to learn python and looking for people who are on the same journey to learn together

[tender perch]

: ) thanks darkwind duck

[vapid jay]

this might interest u

[vale anchor]

tf

[vapid jay]

Theme development involves web design. Wordpress is very popular

[vale anchor]

where did u find this post

[vapid jay]

from coding phase youtube

[vale anchor]

twitter?

[vapid jay]

ya

[iron flint]

yo just needed someones opinion on this

which is better jupyter notebook or google collab for starting out in ML

[deft herald]

doesn't matter. They basically do the same thing

that's like the whole "pycharm or VSCode" discussion. In the end, it's up to you to produce results. Use what you like better

I for instance would use Jupyter but that's because i'm in a corporate environment with a high level of IP lockdown, so it was easy for me to set up a self-hosted solution of Jupyter

For someone just getting into ML and not worrying about leaking private company data, Google Collab might be the least headache solution to use

[hearty totem]

Or you can write notebooks in VScode/DataSpell (the notebook spinoff of pycharm) and python files in jupyter/collab - just to do things differently (and yes it is quite viable).

Joking aside there is one advantage to collab: Google will give you some GPU credits to use - good option for personal dev if you do not want to spend monies just to learn things. It is often enough to even slightly tune LLMs

[tender perch]

I got my internship in a .net company, they pay money to Microsoft for the IDE and azure , .NET is a Microsoft money trap, it works very well but it is really extremely huge so nobody tames it, you will need a full time bug fixing team.
But it is a strong tech it also works, I really do not like it.

[tender perch]

When you say golang, which framework do you aim for, people in the go community don't seem to have a fixed standard to find jobs

[fleet marten]

y'all see non-competes are going the way of the dodo in the states?

[buoyant seal]

i am fine with not using any
But if u wish using smth u could try using Gin with Swagger auto generation. It is always nice u know having autogenerated documentation for your frontend devs ^_^
https://blog.devgenius.io/simple-rest-service-in-golang-with-openapi-spec-and-orm-a447b1086e21
They can generate their structs for typescript out of it automatically https://github.com/drwpow/openapi-typescript

Also i liked Bun ORM as having good support for Postgres
https://github.com/uptrace/bun

[strange pumice]

how to land a job ive been watching lots of youtube tutorials, and have made a decent resume. But been trying to land a callback

But my main questin is what should i expect more or less, or what should i work on

[elder geode]

Does anyone know if it is possbile to make a bot that exits ads after the timer runs out ? Android

[fringe sphinx]

Tell us more about yourself perhaps? experience? Education? Country?

[strange pumice]

1. Recently graduated(Apr 2024) from computer science. Bachelor's
2. Atm i'm living in the middle east but going back to the US
3. I worked on fullstack projects utilizing technologies like django, fast api and react/vue

[fringe sphinx]

Location does matter, do you need a visa?

[strange pumice]

i presume you mean in the us, no i'm a citizen

[tender perch]

I will try it 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, maybe share resume? If your resume shows you are in the middle east, some US employers might skip over it assuming that you need a visa or something.

You can share a redacted (remove private info) resume here.

[strange pumice]

sure, ill put redacted on sec

can i do it in dm @fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

Sure, I'll take a look, but I might say to post it here for feedback if it needs a lot of work.

[strange pumice]

sure one sec

[lost cypress]

hey ---, hope you're doing well. sorry i've been busy with sorting our jury duty and work. thanks for reaching out and keeping me updated. i glad to see you're picking up Docker. It's a great way to keep your application "contained" :). Best regards!

So basically that is the response message I received from a recruiter that I followed up with after my internship interview last week. ( During the interview I was not too familiar with Docker so after it I immediately started researching and practicing with it. )

My question is about where he said It's a great way to keep your application "contained" :).

Am I being delusional and too optimistic for thinking that was a hint that my application/interview status is looking good?

I know this all sounds dumb lol but I couldn't help but feel that his sentence had a double meaning played into docker

because why else would he add the quotations and the smiley face on top of that

[fringe sphinx]

Because he's making a bad "container" pun.

[strange pumice]

@fringe sphinx python discord doesnt accept pdf, lol

[fringe sphinx]

just an image

[fringe sphinx]

You should feel good that they're responding and being friend. I wouldn't read into the container part.

[strange pumice]

one sec i have an idea

[true harness]

at least full screen it 🙄

[strange pumice]

ah good idea, cause my mouse keeps hitting the bottom opening the docker

one sec ill use ilovepdf.com to convert to jpeg

[true harness]

i would caution sending your personal information to a random website

[strange pumice]

i uploaded the censored, redacted form to it. its a trusted site,

I can't sho my uni name cause it will essentially give out my location

[strange pumice]

@fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

Is your university in Middle East?

[strange pumice]

more or less

[fringe sphinx]

So, you probably want to make your citizenship status very clear then. It's very easy for your resume to be skipped because your status isn't clear.

Heck, I don't even like to interview people who live out of state.

[strange pumice]

i mean its an american university that has a campus here,

[strange pumice]

right, thats why im moving back to us asap, im not longer based here legally speaking