career-advice

[errant thicket]

ok im looking now

[dapper bane]

Ain't nobody competing with them that's tough

They have been doing one thing for a long time

[gritty rivet]

I mean, if you're an experienced engineer willing to work for $5/hour then fine maybe

[dapper bane]

That's a lot in my country

[errant thicket]

what do you think? he is selling web scraping services?

[dapper bane]

5$ to 10$per hour is a lot in my country

[gritty rivet]

5 years of professional experience, loads of jobs completed. How much does he charge?

[errant thicket]

5$-80 $

[gritty rivet]

If you have zero experience, you'll need to charge a lot less and even then, will you find clients?

[dapper bane]

Ain't nobody paying 80$

[errant thicket]

yes i can find clients if he could why cant I mate? so thats what i should do web scraping? on fiverr?

[dapper bane]

Web scrapping seems cool I know some of it

[errant thicket]

oh really ok ima go learn it now cause its just mate being in college learning code and just all the online videos about code i just want some of the pot now thats all

[dapper bane]

Yeah man I need some paper too

[gritty rivet]

If you don't have anything better to try, why not? I'm from the US where getting a normal job is the safer bet, but if there're really no better opportunities where you are maybe it's worth it

[dapper bane]

Yeah

[gritty rivet]

I would expect to do some work for free or near-free in the beginning though... You have no experience, not reviews or customer base... Starting from zero is hard.

[errant thicket]

ok thanks i wish old man would really share his knowledege

or somebody ill just make a post in carrer discussion again

DAY 1 Hey everyone I am looking to make money coding without a job ? if anyone has experience doing this could you please reply to this message.

[harsh river]

this isn't a job board

[twilit coyote]

what is the best way of learning you would recommend for stater

[fringe sphinx]

You have to pick what works for you. The three choices are: ebooks, YouTube, or courses. All are good options.

[fringe sphinx]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

Start there, review and ask questions

[twilit coyote]

thanks is there more of a strategical and technical

[fringe sphinx]

If you’re just starting, no. Don’t overthink it: you know nothing. Pick one tutorial, complete it, and do small projects. When stuck, ask for help in #python-discussion

After you know the basics, then ask: what’s next?

[still snow]

Anyone have any experience with tech startups?

[tame falcon]

How long does it realistically take (can give a range) to become an Ai engineer/developer? Also comparing self taught to going to school?

[still snow]

I'd assume you need some sort of background in mathematics

[tame falcon]

I mean including everything: learning to code, learning the math, fundamentals, etc.

[still snow]

Like linear algebra, calc, discrete math, or statistics maybe, not too sure. I believe PyTorch and tensor flow are involved too

[harsh river]

the path of least resistance is via a college degree.

[tame falcon]

Wdym with ‘least resistance’?

[harsh river]

easiest path.

[still snow]

Some employers don't even consider self taught/ no degree

[pine sleet]

it is harder if you don't have a college degree

[tame falcon]

True

[pine sleet]

also AI/ML field especially values a college degree (often times even a graduate degree), as there's a lot of abstract math and other concepts best taught formally

for stuff like IT/web dev it's much less so

[still snow]

Dam, bro gonna need a masters

[pine sleet]

it would not be uncommon for that to be a requirement

[still snow]

If I go to community college then transfer to a public 4-year, will I still be able to get an internship?

[smoky quest]

sure

[pine sleet]

yes. this is often more affordable and not a terrible option

[still snow]

i just graduated HS

[tame falcon]

But it’s not impossible to achieve this self taught right?

[pine sleet]

it is possible

[still snow]

u could go to community college, apply financial aid, transfer when u get ur associates, which is my current plan, since I have no financial supprt

[smoky quest]

It's all a matter of probabilities.
Every job ad receives thousands of applications, most of which with degrees (which demonstrate they have been studying the field for 3-6 years full time), awesome projects and internships. What will be your strategy to compete and stay relevant?

Note also that a self taught and a degree do not open the same doors. While a self taught might find a job, it won't be the same job and won't have the same opportunities or compensation.

If you are 18-20 years old, just go for a degree. It will be unlikely for you to succeed without a degree.

[gritty rivet]

In AI/ML specially? I don't know if it's 1% self taught or .001% but something like that would be my guess. Why play on hard mode?

[twilit coyote]

Thanks overthinking is my biggest enemy 🙃

[mortal wedge]

I think others have mentioned it, but I do want to reinforce what they're saying. Even if a self-taught education is perfectly equivalent to getting a university degree (they aren't), getting a job is more than what you know it's also proving what you know. So let's go through this a bit, let's say you find a job you like at a company and apply online. Here are the steps it would go through:

1. Applicant Tracking System. This is the first hurdle most applications meet where there's no personal interaction at all, you're being assessed for your likelihood of being a good candidate completely by software. If the ATS is looking for you to have a college education/degree, this is where your application dies. It is never seen by a person. 2) HR. Let's say that either someone at the company vouches for you, the company doesn't have an applicant tracking system for some reason, or they don't have it set up to look at education. Someone without a lot of technical knowledge is going to try to compare you to the probably myriad other applications coming through and are looking for ways to disqualify applicants without digging too much into the details. Not having a degree will easily disqualify you at this stage.

2. Hiring Manager. This is the only person with technical expertise to understand some of the other stuff on your resume that may qualify you even without the standard educational background. The problem is that your resume probably isn't reaching this stage. Your only hope is finding some way to directly reach this stage (through networking connections) somehow, and even then the manager would be taking a risk hiring you and would probably be more thorough/strict/vigilant in testing you if they decide to even consider you.

So that's what people are saying when getting a degree is the path of least resistance. You're very unlikely to get your resume to be seen by a person at most places you'll apply to and if you somehow manage, through networking or other connections, get directly to a hiring manager you will likely be exposed to a higher degree of scrutiny because you'd have to really overperform compared to a credentialed person to be hired.

That's not to say it's impossible, I certainly don't want to discourage people who can't afford college from trying. But it is a lot of hustle and if you're able to somehow afford college financially and time-wise it's the recommended path

[turbid bobcat]

I think it depends on the uni because for example with mine, well I'm basically self taught with a degree on top auditing my claim to knowledge. You're mostly left to your own devices there. I heard many complains during my MSc program from students coming from other unis in the country

[fringe sphinx]

What are you overthinking? Can’t pick a tutorial? Can’t pick a language? Watching too many YTers who say everything is bad?

[versed condor]

I already have 2 years of college already down. The great recession and my inability to get a used car made it extremely hard to go community college and work. It would be much easier since I got used car now, and community college is filled with different age and I won't feel like a loser since I won't be the oldest.

[late flame]

You're never a loser for going to school. All the professors loved the older students since they were the ones most likely to give a shit and take the work seriously. Plus you could have a beer with them

[fringe sphinx]

Nowadays the online options are also quite good, if that’s a better option. Whatever it takes, finish it up.

[versed condor]

Yeah, that makes sense because the older students are more likely to have an actual degree in mind finally. I know as a kid, they pressured us big time to go college, but I never had no idea what to go for and I didn't like the idea of ONLY DOING ONE THING FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE type of mindset.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, if you look up the college attrition rates for US, it’s a travesty.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/ctr

Only 64% finish within 6 years. Wtf.

[blazing harbor]

eh it depends my uni stands on 93%

[versed condor]

I started college in 2009 and I been going in and out for years. I could only take at most 2 classes because I didn't have my own transportation at the time.

[blazing harbor]

with 81% graduating in 4 years so 4 in 5 people ig

[fringe sphinx]

Still? That’s pretty terrible in the grand scheme

Given the amount of money and expectations heaped on students

[blazing harbor]

I think 80% is p solid knowing that most ppl don't even know what they want to do when they go to college

[fringe sphinx]

That’s a ~$50k out the window

[hearty island]

lol billybobby my college graduation rate is a 64% 😭

[blazing harbor]

ah uni tuition is a diff issue; it's way too high for no reason

[hearty island]

cooked, absolutely cooked

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that just frustrates me so much

[blazing harbor]

I honestly think we are less accepting to mistakes nowadays; we want perfect students

but some people, they just need time, and not everyone is ready ig

with the price of college tuition, it kinda forces you into a race that doesn't actually exist

[versed condor]

I had pell grants which means if you get one F, you are completely screwed. Guess who got F in intro to programming online? Yeah, that happened to me and I was not able to do anymore college classes anymore until all that money was paid off. Took me years to pay off $700.

[blazing harbor]

I mean getting an F is pretty difficult to be fair

[hearty island]

lol my dumbass got a C+ in my first intro to programming course. took that as a sign to not do computer science

[blazing harbor]

a C+ is a lot lot better than an F

to get an F, you would have to do significantly worse than the median, and it would really come down to work ethic rather than even understanding tbf

[versed condor]

True. But this was online class for programming... which I had experience with, BUT it was all java code! I knew nothing about that complicated language. I tried getting help and the teacher was very hard to deal with. Ironically, I taught myself python after that.

[high coral]

i am coming into the software engineering job market in a few months once i graduate with my degree. i have an interest in startups. has anyone here had any experiences with joining, or starting a software startup business?

i am looking for the things you learned, regretted, things you wish you knew, etc.

[versed condor]

I think what really did me in was all the "technical" speak. I still struggle when people start speaking "technical" speak like class, method, attribute, cause I be like what? I hate the fact that I'm gonna be almost 40 f-ing years old by the time I were to get computer science degree since everyone on agrees that it is 100% IMPOSSIBLE to get a job if you know python code since it means nothing without a stupid degree attached to it.

[smoky quest]

maybe then the degree ain't so stupid

[versed condor]

Yeah, but I'm so jealous of all the younger people. I had very late start in life because of the great recession that I graduated high school into.

[smoky quest]

startups are great growth opportunity.
That's in part due to the amount of freedom you get and accountability. It will be less likely you get a lot of mentoring and attention and as such, you need to be self starter

[harsh river]

it's never too late to go to college 🙂

[smoky quest]

Everyone is different, with a different path and a different starting point.
No point in comparing yourself to others

[versed condor]

I know. It's hard. Cause you feel so alone and you just wish to find somebody like you.

Like hell, I have to wait all the way until summer before I can start unless there is an online school.

[high coral]

have you worked for a startup?

[blazing harbor]

idk I just go to uni for CS and I'm just enjoying life nad studying

really I don't think it's anything too important fr

[versed condor]

That's another thing. There are like 70,000 different stuff with python and I understand none of it except discord bots. Though not want to over worry about that. What about if you're absurdly good with math? Can they help me with jobs short term, or am I stuck in near minimum wage jobs for now?

I took calculus in college and almost got an A in that class despite not doing the homework.

[blazing harbor]

acturial science is p cool field

[blazing harbor]

def going to be harder than calculus.. a lot harder but you might find it interesting avg salary is 6 figures p sure

"Actuaries made a median salary of $113,990 in 2022. The best-paid 25% made $155,670 that year, while the lowest-paid 25% made $84,800"

[versed condor]

I heard of actuary. Somebody recommended that to me.

[smoky quest]

yes

[high coral]

did the startup succeed, or die out?

and as a developer/software developer, are the main differences between industry jobs and startup jobs just the self-drive that you spoke of earlier?

[smoky quest]

startup jobs are industry jobs

The main difference is large companies have more process and more people. That also means they have more bandwith to spend time with you and to implement the best practices.
On the other hand, it also means they are slower and your impact will be narrower.

[high coral]

haha, by industry i just meant larger corporations.

and thanks for your input. was your startup business in the tech sector, or was your business in another sector, and you just played a role on the startup team as a software engineer?

[blazing harbor]

what's the optimal amount of years you stay at a startup to maximize growth

[devout token]

no optimal. if the startup is promising, you stay. if it's going to die, you can stay or leave

startup roles are more general and faster paced

[fringe sphinx]

Until you stop learning

Same as any company.

Some jobs you plateau, some jobs you can keep growing. I work with some engineers who I’ve worked with for 15+ years who are still growing (as am I), and I know people who plateau within two years, for whatever reason

[smoky quest]

that's a case by case basis.
If you look at companies with a hypergrowth like tesla/uber, some engineers couldn't leave even when they stopped learning. They had so much equity at stake that it was worth not learning

[smoky quest]

I played a lot of roles

[quiet prism]

sometimes you fit and grow, others you plateau. the skills you put into your job aren't just what weighs in your learning and overall performance. the so called (and often neglected) "culture" and the people around you, with whom you share most of your day, do at least as much. If the later doesn't click, the former won't neither.

[jade rampart]

windows or linux, whats better for the industry, and even if its better, is it worth it going from one to the other? for example Ive been a windows user all my life, now I need to reset my PC from 0, so I might just wipe everything from the SSD and HDD and install ubuntu, but idk if its worth it. Will an employer value it more than windows? Idk, so many questions 🙂

[smoky quest]

No one cares what OS is used, unless your role requires a specific tool that only runs on a specific OS

That said, if you aim for cloud or sysadmin, given that GNU/Linux is dominant on the server side, you could benefit from using it on your personal machine to get more familiar

[jade rampart]

not that im interested in working on that side of the indusdtry, but I use linux for my vps's - nothing else

[smoky quest]

then it's up to you. All main 3 OSes are great and won't block you.

[jade rampart]

nice

ty for the answer 🙂

[still snow]

Do I need to be proficient coding to build a startup?

[smoky quest]

does your startup requires coding to make it happen?

[still snow]

I have a decent idea (to me atleast) , but im pretty new to programming. Im afraid someone will take the name of the company before I can get it

[still snow]

Definitely

[smoky quest]

then if you don't know how to code, you will need to hire someone or find a partner who does.

[still snow]

How can I check if a company name is trademarked already?

[summer roost]

in what country?

[deft herald]

Use it anyways and wait for a cease and desist.

(Don't do that)

[still snow]

us of a

[summer roost]

https://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/search

[still snow]

Thanks, looks like there is already a small healthcare business using it, but it doesn't look too big

[summer roost]

the size of the company doesn't matter at all. The company that holds the trademark is required to enforce it or risk losing it, so you should expect them to send you a cease and desist as soon as they notice that you're using their trademark

[still snow]

The domain (.com) is on GoDaddy for $10k, the company has the name trademarked but their website has the name just with "healthcare" attached after it. The name i wish to acquire sounds like it specializes in ai/LLM technology

They haven't been active on any social media, the latest thing I could find is an address change on Meta, and all of their other social media are very inactive and lack traffic/ impressions. Like i mean they have 0-8 likes on most of their very generic posts. It seems as though this company never took off.

[buoyant seal]

Opinion of Linux user:

Linux will serve u great if u are in system administrator, DevOps engineering, Backend development job roles.
Potentially also will be nice in Data engineering and has weaker advantages for full stack, web frontend role.
All of those job roles targeting working with modern web servers, which are Linux, that is why Linux here will be great.

If u aim to be Windows desktop developer or wishing gaming, better do it from Windows

If u are aiming development for MacOS, IOS, better doing from MacOS.

In all other cases Linux is nice default to go with if u are a developer unless there are strong reasons present in ecosystem to do this stuff from another OS.

Exceptions are

• stuff like web development from C#, windows is still dominating there but last.. 7? Or smth years they try going with Linux, but all legacy is still in Windows as well as a big portion of jobs.
• Also a good majority of regular system administrator jobs intend to support techno park of windows machines, but they are usually not developer related, just desk support

[buoyant seal]

@jade rampart P.S. There is an option in between that people commonly go.
Using Windows with WSL2 Linux features. But that is kind of not really Windows and not really Linux at the same time.
It is hybrid with its unique set of errors and pitfalls in between.
Still may serve as a good option if u a for some reason splitted in between those OSes. I prefer just using dual boot though and launching windows for gaming only

[blazing harbor]

Hmm I just ssh into my unis vms

And run code tbh cuz I don’t wanna run anything on my Mac

[buoyant seal]

I did same when I was student. I am windows user my first 25 years of life or smth
When graduated and started working as backend dev with having load of DevOps responsibilities i discovered it is just easier working directly from Linux at some point.
Because I develop stuff for running at them

[gritty rivet]

Sounds like they're just squatting it which is a widespread problem.

Getting the perfect domain name isn't going to make or break a viable business plan though, so maybe just focus on the substance instead

[gritty rivet]

Most startups typically seem to have a pair of founders, CEO with the investor relationships and CTO with the real engineering experience.

[covert prism]

Hey
Any data scientist here?

[blazing harbor]

Yes

[lone trail]

For AI where should I start learning

[fringe sphinx]

Where are you starting from?

[lone trail]

Didnt quite understand can you explain a bit

[fringe sphinx]

You asked about learning AI, but didn’t tell us about your education, programming knowledge or experience. Tell us about you.

[tropic pike]

Hello buddies, i am new here

[merry sail]

What is the highest paying software job that involves programming

[deft herald]

Choose the snarky response:
1 - CTO of a software company
2 - Well it's definitely higher than a software job that doesn't involve programming

[deft herald]

(sorry). It's sort of a broad question that's really hard to answer. What exactly are you looking for?

[merry sail]

AI/ML

[smoky quest]

probably staff or principal levels, depending on the company's ladder

some companies may also have a fellow and various variations with senior in front.

You can check levels.fyi

[leaden dust]

4 months from now, and it'll be 1 year since I've graduated. I've applied to many jobs and learned many languages and frameworks during this time. Even got an interview and passed it from Accenture,

However, they haven't replied back with any joining dates or letters; it's been 3 months now, and I don't think they will. I have been applying to other jobs, but I get no callbacks or replies. I think it might be my resume and recession, maybe.

Any suggestions, improvements feedbacks anything is appreciated, thanks!

[wary drum]

will i need to write those 100k-1m back-end lines of code manually if i got a job or there is an easier method of doing it

[true harness]

it's called having a team. probably multiple teams

[wary drum]

oh thank god

[kindred oyster]

on the accenture thing - if you are from india, its not uncommon for college placements to get joinings as late as after an year
so 3 months is nothing, if you have the offer letter and have accepted it , you dont need to worry much

[wary drum]

i was afraid, i saw the script of a popular in my country (like amazon) and i got flabbergasted

[leaden dust]

Yeah i am, i understand that but they haven't even sent a offer letter to accept until now

[kindred oyster]

then how did you know you were selected in the interview ?

[leaden dust]

Their last email was congratulating me on passing all their test and interviews and instructions to wait further communications

[kindred oyster]

have you tried mailing them back ?

[leaden dust]

Not sure how to, i don't know the addresss

Tried asking in their support chat they said they cant help and just to wait

[kindred oyster]

should be on their careers page

also you can reply back on the company email of the HR that sent you the interview mail

(but yeah , you should look for new opportunities)

[leaden dust]

All their emails were from no reply mail addresses also it was an off campus placement

Their carrer and student portal are horrible websites, infinite login screens lol

[kindred oyster]

https://www.accenture.com/in-en/about/contact-us

have you tried filling out the form on their page under job seekers option ?

[white relic]

It looks good to me. One thing that jumps out is that your internships are deemphasized - Professional Experience is at the bottom of the page and has basically no detail compared to Projects. Did some of those projects actually come from internships or are they all personal projects?

[leaden dust]

No i haven't tried that, thank you i will try that now

[kindred oyster]

you gotta explore all the options

[white relic]

I would probably put education, experience, projects, skills in that order

Others may have different preferences

[leaden dust]

All are personal project just except for the data analytics which i did during the internship

Those internships were rather short and honestly seemed like a waste of time, initially i didn't even want to add them lol

[kindred oyster]

even if you didnt like those internships , they hold good value in the eyes of interviewer

it shows that you have some real work experience and not just another programmer that has tons of project on his resume

[white relic]

Yeah, my advice is to emphasize the internships more. Put that project in the experience section and see if you can flesh out the other internship a bit too

[leaden dust]

What i mean is instead of working on something they were mostly like a course, like watching an online course they just breezed through some stuff and assigned us a project

[white relic]

Did you get paid?

[leaden dust]

Nope

[kindred oyster]

you know that , we know that , company doesnt

empasize on that project when they ask about that

[leaden dust]

Very well then i will move them up and maybe add some additional details

[true harness]

Amazon has thousands and thousands of devs, not just one

[crisp stream]

Also, if you meant the HTML/CSS/JS of the website, a lot of it is generated from other code (like React)

[edgy shoal]

How did y'all learn python?

[harsh river]

this question is better suited for #python-discussion

[jovial stream]

can anyone change the background color of a mod menu for me? cuz im not really good in python

[fringe sphinx]

See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[nova crest]

how does learning curve look like to the first ever job as a python coding boy
so far i completed freecodecamp.com "Scientific Computing with Python "

[unkempt tangle]

Hopefully this is the good place to ask, I've been learning python for about 8 mos no and I feel like i get to the point where I should consider picking up some secondary language. I tried web development and is killing my passion to even open my IDE so i guess that's not really my cup of tea. So now I was considering going for a lower level language. I was interested in learning c or rust and rust on paper makes way more sense than C. However there are absolutely 0 job postings in my area for interns/juniors for Rust. Also I've seen a lot of job postings asking for skills both in python and go, so I'd guess go is also a good candidate. Any opinions ?

[peak halo]

Regardless of what you do, it will be exceptionally challenging to get a job as a dev if you don't have or are currently pursuing a CS-or-similar degree.

If you're interested in lower-level languages, I would start with C, but only to develop an understanding of primitive types and memory management. Which will put you in a better position to appreciate how Rust is designed.

[unkempt tangle]

i'm a first year cs student but i've passed trough the programing introduction with c like a swan in the water so i should probably go and actually learn a low level language at this point

[true harness]

there aren't many rust jobs in general, but C++ is still very commonly used. go is picking up popularity also, but i believe it's more location specific compared to C++

[peak halo]

Hmm? What I'm saying is that if you understand the basics of C, you can just start learning Rust.

[unkempt tangle]

ok thnx for the perspective ^^

[peak halo]

public static is probably right that there will be more job listings that mention C++

[unkempt tangle]

in my area tbh they are basically bundled c/c++, i don't think i've seen a single posting that said one but not the other. But you are probably right and they prefer c++

[gentle sierra]

Hi there,
I'm really bored of doing nothing,all i do is play games all day so i just wanted to make use of my time.
Can someone help me on how to get into a internship
finished my 12th grade and omw to join college for cs(got 4 months)
skills:
python ,html/css, c, data analysis, machine learning(intermediate)

[fringe sphinx]

Projects. Start a project today? And do a project every week

[gentle sierra]

can you suggest some

cause i'm blank

[fringe sphinx]

Start here, review and ask questions about them in #python-discussion

!kin

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[lean basin]

||sus||

[untold herald]

!rule ad paid

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[ivory sluice]

!tempban 921680135151824926 14d as previously warned, we do not permit advertising

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @fast sail until <t:1710614400:f> (14 days).

[turbid bobcat]

I've actually been surprised on that front, just today submitted a resume for an MLE role where rust is a plus

there's products where high performance is needed, and are also meant for the ML ecosystem, then there's IoT + ML too

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't take it super seriously. There is bikeshedding and RDD and HDD in the workplace too.
So I would take it with a grain of salt.

[turbid bobcat]

The one I applied today they use Rust in their core product

I'm not entirely sure how common these jobs are tho, I just found them due to google (or LinkedIn ig) knowing everything about me and tailoring ads

[smoky quest]

yeah, some well known companies do use rust, like datadog. (they also use other languages)

But that doesn't change the fact one should not equate the use of a language/library at a specific place with a well thought out justification

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm, I've used their product in my previous role, it's pretty good.

Another example of rust in the ML space is polars, and I just checked and they are actually hiring

Yeah they don't seem to be very common tho, having trouble finding more examples

I see many in which Rust or any language tangent to embedded is seen as a plus for example, but it's not a job working w/ rust

[smoky quest]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[spring yoke]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[hazy gull]

Just in case things don't work out and I don't go to college for now, what would you suggest

[grim saddle]

hello everyone. is there any working programmers of any kind to have an interview about their career? its for a school activity. just dm me. i would appreciate it alot. thanks

[clever escarp]

Whats the interview spefically about?

I am still a student but i've done a couple internships plus university jobs related to the field

[stark olive]

I don't like it that much, I'm sorry

[clever escarp]

I'd strongly suggest to look into the early career internships. We have Google, Microsoft, Meta, they do a lot of early internships for freshmen and its a great upportunity to secure a career in FAANG (I wish I woud've done this). Do a lot of projects, even the smallest ones count. Also I'd apply to Google's Tech Exchange, its a great opportunity to dive deeper into their culture, and also learn a lot from talented engineers

For the tech exchange they offer classes that you can take that will count towards your degree plan, you just take them with google instead of your instiution. I also wished I would've done this

There is a lot for freshmen and early career students, a lot of panels, conferences, internships. You just really gotta look deep into those, I spent most of my freshmen and sophomore year doing nothing so I truly regret not even applying

[grim saddle]

slr. may we talk at dm?

[gentle sierra]

thanks alot

[crisp stream]

!rule 7

[inner wren]

Rules

7. Keep discussions relevant to the channel topic. Each channel's description tells you the topic.

[vapid jay]

Yo

[dense elm]

I need an anti-insomnia function all.

Wait wrong channel. XD

[barren crater]

hey guys i am currently 14 years old and looking for potential programming jobs for my future , i have lots of experiences in python , nodejs, and c#. any ideas?

[pine sleet]

keep your grades in school well and work on projects to improve your skill

[barren crater]

if i succesfully do that what job should i do when im older

[pine sleet]

there are many jobs related to programming, it depends on what specifically interests you

[barren crater]

i dont really know yet sorry, but my interests are gaming, watching youtube, and hearing music

[pine sleet]

that's fine. most people at your age do not know what specifically they want to do. just work on projects that sound cool to you for now and you will figure it out

[barren crater]

ok thx, i just felt like i should prepare early for my future but i am just looking for anything that i can use my skills for

[kindred oyster]

yeah ,id say keep your grades up in school and aim for a good uni for CS course
a good UNI will make a huge difference.
even if you dont like the steps that will get you to UNI (like studying subjects yyou dont like , or giving exams) , you should do it.

and keep making fun projects 👍

[barren crater]

i got an F for math tho...

[kindred oyster]

you should focus on improving the grade then
some fields in programming require good math knowledge too

[barren crater]

does programming cources require math or is it something u need to unlock the uni cource?

[kindred oyster]

some math is required for sure

[barren crater]

ill try but i overthink too much

[barren crater]

i never really use it when i program tho

[kindred oyster]

implement discipline , regardless of what happens , you must put in x amount of work everyday

[barren crater]

is that what you did?

[kindred oyster]

but thats the way engineering is , you need math even tho you might not actually use it in everyday life
also , some fields in programming rely heavily on math , so you cant ignore that

[barren crater]

bruh

[kindred oyster]

i didnt hate math , i knew i needed to be good in it , so i did it

[barren crater]

can't i just use chatgpt or caluclator?

[kindred oyster]

AI/ML , data science and stuff is just math

making games also requires some amount of physics/math knowledge

math is like that 1 thing that comes up everywhere to some extent and i recommand everyone to do math

[barren crater]

i got 11% on my math test and everyone clowned me in my class but i was actaully trying my best

[kindred oyster]

then maybe change the way you are learning it
spot if you have any gaps in the basics of math

because if you have weak foundation , you will have lots of difficulties later on

[barren crater]

should i change tutors

[kindred oyster]

i highly recommand khanacademy.org to you

[barren crater]

whats that?

[kindred oyster]

a fantastic website where you can learn from good content for free

they have math starting from class 1 to pre uni stuff . i suggest you start from a class which you dont feel really comfortable with
so for ex - if you feel good about the math from class 1 - class 5 but are not really confidnet in class 6 , then start with class 6 math

[barren crater]

i just looked at the website i will try to use it, but it doesnt really teach my next exam topcis

i tried to ask my teacher a few days ago on how i can improve on the test but he just started talking down on me like a loser so i will probably use this instead

[fringe sphinx]

The thing about topics like math and programming is that you have to put the time in. More time than you’d expect. If something doesn’t make sense, you can’t keep going; you have to stop and make sense of it.

[fringe sphinx]

Sometimes a tutor makes a big difference, i have a niece who was struggling in high school math and a tutor identified a few basic concepts she just didn’t really understand (iirc, fractions and basic arithmetic properties). The tutor spend an entire summer just reinforcing these ideas, and filling in gaps.

[white relic]

I'm sorry your classmates and teacher are so nasty to you. One of the things that can be hard about math at your age is that your brain is still maturing and everyone is a bit different. In the US this is about the age where students are usually introduced to more symbolic math instead of mainly number crunching and it requires more abstract thought that sometimes takes a little more time and practice. I have known people your age who thought algebra was complete gibberish, failed the class and took it again half a year later and breezed through. Sometimes it really is about giving yourself time. I've also known people for whom the right tutor made all the difference. Don't give up on math yet.

Even if you are not a mathematical genius, you can still learn enough math to ace a college CS program and be an excellent software engineer. Practice helps and looking for other ways to learn (like khanacademy) is a skill that will serve you well in any field

[fringe sphinx]

So true. Hits home for me: I hit a wall in college math, work ethic and ‘mastery’ of fundamentals wasn’t there. Got my shit together after, but freshman year was not pretty.

[hasty copper]

hey is anyone upto web3

[final ravine]

You mean the Semantic Web? And SPARQL and such?

[hasty copper]

web 3,0

blockchain? cryptocurrency?

[grim gate]

Hi guys I want to learn coding
And I wanted to make a app
Is anyone can help me 🙏🙏

I learned beginning of the coding

[fringe sphinx]

Welcome! Please look at the resources below, and ask us questions in #python-discussion

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[hasty copper]

what about me?😭

[fringe sphinx]

What about?

[hasty copper]

Does anyone know about web 3.0?

[fringe sphinx]

This is #career-advice

You can ask in off topic

[hasty copper]

Oh thanks mate

[fringe sphinx]

Or #web-development

[plucky wharf]

react vs python

[fringe sphinx]

Potatoes vs Lizards

[mint oracle]

I will choose potatoes

[shy meteor]

Hi guys, please I need help. I am new to tech and programming, I am learning Python programming and it’s been okay till I got to OOP, now I’m stuck and it feels like I know nothing at all

[fringe sphinx]

That is totally normal. Everybody hits that wall.

[fringe sphinx]

I post this a lot: https://www.google.com/search?q=imposter+syndrome+site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Flearnprogramming

[fringe sphinx]

Anyway; 1. Write code. Often. Small projects. OOP won’t make sense until you have some mastery of fundamentals. 2. Ask questions in #python-discussion

[shy meteor]

It’s really scary ngl

[shy meteor]

I will check this out, thanks

[fringe sphinx]

Just be comforted knowing that we all got through it.

Learning programming is like learning a sport; just reading and watching isn’t enough.

[shy meteor]

I’m just mad this one isn’t sticking.I guess I need to take it easy and try till I get it. Can you recommend materials suitable for a beginner?

[fringe sphinx]

Start with this list, filter to beginners

[vapid jay]

hello guys, I'm a senior mechanical engineering student, and thinking about learning a programming language, can anyone give his/her precious time to guide me I'll ask some questions ...

[fringe sphinx]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

Take a look and ask questions or advice (use #python-discussion , you’ll get more feedback)

[fringe sphinx]

Just ask your questions, here or in #python-discussion

[shy meteor]

Thank you so much

[vapid jay]

why not here, it's about careers and having jobs, and not technical things ?

[fringe sphinx]

I said here or there, depending on the q

Sorry, two different threads here. For Torna, I said pydis for questions about tutorials.

For you, either, depending on the q

[vapid jay]

okay

first I want to know, what is pythons practical use, in my country(Iraq) they develop websites, apps etc with js

I've learned the basics in AI course in the university

then, I like to know, if I learnt python, and a target specification of it, are there remote jobs online, (because I can't relocate for now)

☺️ that was all

[mint oracle]

Many companies used python mostly for ai and ml stuff and some use python as a backend for web development suff glory to fastapi,flask and django

[fringe sphinx]

For background: https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023 and https://cacm.acm.org/blogcacm/python-is-now-the-most-popular-introductory-teaching-language-at-top-u-s-universities/

[fringe sphinx]

Hard to answer specific to your country though. Remote jobs are generally -through- an in-country company.

Ie: a US MNC would hire remote workers in another country indirectly, through a local subsidiary or company.

[mint oracle]

Nowdays remotejob is new hot keyword for tech influencer

[strange socket]

Trying to figure out if I should just grad with an AS or transfer to a Tech Inst with my credits for a full Bach

[fringe sphinx]

@strange socket An associates might be fine to land an adjacent job, but may be insufficient to land a SWE job especially in this market

My vote would always be: finish the bs. If not, land your best available job and work towards it part time

[strange socket]

Gotcha. There are a few programs in nearby unis, polytechnic unis, and TIs that I could transfer my credits to for a Bachelor's

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, no matter what you do, goal should be to finish that degree. If you stop, it’s hard to restart.

[strange fox]

hey guys i need some help with carrer dession here
like i recently finished cs50 python and now idk what to do
like i got pro at python but not a specific skill
now i am just trying my hands on diffrent library but no real world project here
its so frustating
anyone can suggest me some good idea that i can put in my resume please

[smoky quest]

What's your goal?

!kin for projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[strange fox]

amm like have a grip on anything liek data science , cv or ai

or maybe webdev
like i want to know all of them at some point but i want to start from some where and idk how and where thats the confusion about

[pine sleet]

Can you give us some more context, like what stage of your career are you in (i.e HS student, college student, already in the workforce)? And educational background?

[smoky quest]

for fun or a job?

[strange fox]

amm i am currently a btech student 1st year
want some good project for resumen and like wana build some startup with it maybe

the main issue is am not abel to get stabel to one thing

[smoky quest]

It's best to go into the topical channels. They do have resources pinned to learn about them

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[balmy spade]

Aside from the other suggestions; stop thinking a project you build needs to be "real world". Build things that interest you. Build things that challenge your knowledge, simplify a problem in your life, deepen your knowledge, or just make you happy to build. This is where you will get your deep knowledge of programming.

Too often it's easy to be lost in paralysis as one searches for the "best" project to build. It doesn't exist. A project that you are passionate about and can speak about with that passion is gold.

[smoky quest]

Also to note that your first projects will be terrible. By the time you graduate, you will have far more interesting projects. So don't overthink as mentioned above.

[strange fox]

amm well i got a lab where i can work on ev3 stuff and resberipy

so planning to work on a cv and ai related rc car project over there
or a game based on one piece( little bit like mario in qualit terms)

[strange fox]

ahh seems relatabel with what i have been throught recently

@smoky quest @balmy spade any suggestion on skill for freelensing?

[balmy spade]

Communication, marketing, and sales.

[strange fox]

i mean in python what skill can get me a gig

[balmy spade]

Python is a tool. Pick a field, pick a skill. It can be applied to a gig. It won't get you clients. That's communication, marketing, and sales.

[smoky quest]

The best course of action is to see what's in demand and what pays well

[strange fox]

Ohhh gotcha

[strange fox]

Alr sir

[balmy spade]

fwiw, communication is probably at the top of my "good to have" skills list. It's universally applicable to, well, just about everything.

[plucky wharf]

potatoes fosho

[plucky wharf]

what do you think of rust?

[fringe sphinx]

Good luck finding a job in it? https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023

[smoky quest]

In terms of career? It's a bit on the early side. But the nice jobs can be interesting.

But again, languages are just tools. Pretty much for every job, I had to use a different language for something, except for java which is so useful in many contexts.
So focus on the skills first, languages will come and go.

[turbid bobcat]

I'm using rust rn because torch isn't committed to keeping the c++ interface stable

[buoyant seal]

You can make backend development with Java, desktop and mobile development and all in reasonable quality of easier code than rust because memory is garbage collected. Isn't it wonderful 😊
And also Java works fine to develop from any OS, which is Important for me too.

[smoky quest]

most people who interact with torch probably use the python one

[turbid bobcat]

Rusts borrow checker has been keeping my tendency for abstraction in check

[buoyant seal]

For productive programming not over abstracted I have Go ^_^. Way simpler garbage collected code too.

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah that is the reason they give and to be fair, it's quite reasonable

I just wanted to brush up on my low level programming because I'll be getting into CUDA programming soon

[smoky quest]

gpgpu is fun

[turbid bobcat]

Go is nice yeah. Rust isn't that bad in terms of productivity. I find that as long as I don't try to be fancy things carry on smoothly

[vagrant nebula]

I'm working on a TUI with Textual and Rich. If you want we could start it together and learn from each other.

[muted bridge]

is there any weight to a referral given by an intern?

[hearty island]

lol my friend has been asking me the same question

[muted bridge]

i wanna know so i can start rizzing up some of my upperclassmen

[fringe sphinx]

Referrals don’t have much ‘weight’ anyway, unless you are personally vouching/pitching the person to the hiring manager.

[smoky quest]

depends on who is referring

[muted bridge]

so it should be someone who has strong ties with the hiring manager?

[smoky quest]

Think about it this way:

• Would you trust a rando from the Internet to tell you that I am awesome?
• Would you trust someone at your school who refers everyone in sight because they get 3k$ if the referral get hired?
• Would you trust a close friend, with whom you have worked on project, when they tell you they know someone who could help you?

and even here, trust would typically extend to "alright, let me take a close look at them", not a "alright, let's hire them TODAY"

And remember that hiring someone is like putting your own money down. You want to make sure you get your money worth

[muted bridge]

alr thanks

[smoky quest]

and hiring the wrong person is more expensive than not hiring someone

[muted bridge]

I have another question. This summer, I plan to take summer courses, which will put me a good 8 classes ahead of my suggested academic plan. I don't intend to graduate early, but since it's very possible to do that, would it be advantageous to say that I'm graduating 1 year early in my resume?

[smoky quest]

no one will care if you graduate early or late.
My recommendation would be to enjoy your journey so that you have the time to absorb, digest and fully develop the materials (ex: making projects)

[muted bridge]

alr ty

[smoky quest]

Trying to speedrun college could actually hurt you

If you have time, that means you could take extra classes to dive deeper in some topics too 😉
Or expand the breadth of your knowledge to new areas

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with re: you don’t get bonus points for graduating early, except personal satisfaction and able to start work a year earlier

[muted bridge]

personally every time i let a recruiter know about my grad year it all goes downhill

[summer roost]

when do you graduate? And what sorts of jobs are you applying to?

[vagrant nebula]

but but but you are all way smarter (my brain is telling me this :D)

[fringe sphinx]

Classic imposter syndrome, I feel you.

[deft herald]

I remember graduating and thinking "wait, that was it?"

[blazing harbor]

time for grad school

[rustic schooner]

For what its worth; I do think you are awesome :)

[gentle sierra]

@clever escarp

will the kaggle dataset projects be enough for me rn

yk those data clean up visualization and training projects

[vapid jay]

Guys

[zealous path]

Yes?

[strange stirrup]

are the career pospects good for artificial intelligence bachelors of science holders?

[gritty rivet]

If such degree programs even exist they must be very new.

You'll have to look at the specific program and the institutions behind them

You can look for graduates on LinkedIn to see how they're doing but maybe it's too soon for that

Without knowing any of those important details, I can only speculate that a traditional CS degree with a concentration in something like AI/ML may be a safer bet than something more narrow focus.

[strange stirrup]

it's such a new program at this University that I think i will be in the first class I was thinking perhaps there are similar degrees with a different name that i may be able to draw from in terms of ideas with the careers prospects i will do more googling thank you

[edgy shoal]

What courses can you guys recommend to learn a programming language? As there are so many online and I have real difficulties deciding which one to do?

[hearty island]

!resources, a ton of these are good.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[surreal sigil]

Hello Everyone , I am a student in my 2nd year of engineering . I have ok-ish - good knowledge in c,c++ , python and a little bit of ML . This is my first trying GSOC . Can anyone help me on how do i apply and how do i contribute?? and how does the process go in general?

[buoyant seal]

https://www.amazon.fr/Head-First-Python-Brain-friendly/dp/1492051292/
Try Head First. It is very Brain Friendly. 🧠

[turbid bobcat]

He's actually not alone, LinkedIn says 1 person but there's a whole serious operation setup already, with various specialists from the field.

I would be offered an advisory board position and/or equity + visa support, which he believes won't be hard due to having ownership over a part of a company and a critical enough skill set.

The details will come in today and I'll also have the chance to go over their stuff after signing an NDA. Everything actually looked kinda solid, they seem to total the necessary amount of knowledge to do what they are trying to do, the only thing missing is someone who can bridge the gap between their use case (which is part of my educational background) and the ML stuff (what I do now for living).

Stuff looks to be moving super fast, so I'll definitely be especially careful before making any decision.

[fringe sphinx]

Any idea on how they’re funded?

There’s little ‘risk’ as long as you’re getting paid.

[turbid bobcat]

AWS is funding and building their infrastructure, I don't remember all the details regarding funding tbh there was a lot of stuff, but I think he will send me the presentation he showed me today and I can always ask if not

[fringe sphinx]

Funding is pretty simple. Do they have VC or other external money?

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah that's true, everything did look legit from a technical standpoint

[fringe sphinx]

Or is it self funded or angel money.

VC is a positive sign, but the way you’re describing makes me think not.

[turbid bobcat]

It's not self funded for sure

There's big wigs involved from big institutions

[fringe sphinx]

I’ve heard stuff like that tho, but usually people say; funding by xyz capital and abc VC. If they talk about individuals, then it’s probably angel/individual investors. Early stage, which is fine, just more ‘risk’ than a well funded firm

[turbid bobcat]

I should've read more about it before going in, didn't know it was gonna go so fast

[fringe sphinx]

The idea of offering an advisory board is odd, I wouldn’t do that for some young candidate.

[turbid bobcat]

I do have specialized knowledge on their stuff, but I also did find it weird and not sure how an advisory board role would benefit me

[fringe sphinx]

I went in pretty blind early in my career. Like I said: there’s little risk as long as you’re paid a competitive salary. I was, had some stock that ended up being worth something but that was just a bonus. And, it was good for my resume.

[turbid bobcat]

Not too sure how competitive their offer would be, but I'm hoping for something that lets me live in DC

[fringe sphinx]

Advisory board is one vehicle to getting some stock in the company. Just weird to offer that to an employee.

[turbid bobcat]

Interesting.

[fringe sphinx]

The visa part, I just don’t know about. I dont know if thats a thing.

Sponsoring an h1b is a straightforward process, but it’s a lottery system.

Costs them a few $k

[turbid bobcat]

I don't think he knows too. He said he was gonna talk to the lawyer today and get back to me

I think it was just his impression, he also went through the process a decade ago or something, so many things might've changed

[fringe sphinx]

The one thing that changes is the ratio of applicants to positions. You can look that up, which tells you about the lottery chances.

[turbid bobcat]

I don't think we'd be going for H1B, the only way would be O1 (which I guess I'd also be skeptical about)

[fringe sphinx]

I have no knowledge of those, I know they’re exceptional. You can also look up how many O1s are granted each year

[turbid bobcat]

Why does the US have to make it so hard, I'd be +1 tax payer 😭

[fringe sphinx]

There’s plenty of people I’d gladly trade for you.

[turbid bobcat]

That's very kind of you to say, thank you

[fringe sphinx]

That’s BillyBobby’s solution to immigration crisis. We’ll trade up.

!cban 1007429836085678180 Homophobia is not welcome here.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @plucky sentinel permanently.

[white relic]

that's... doesn't the "applied ban to X" message usually show the display name?

[smoky quest]

From your context, this is a really weird situation and offer.
In addition, the presence of big wigs doesn't necessary lay credence as they may just lend their name or just not be that involved.
All in all, while I lack context to give an informed opinion, it does have a bunch of flags about someone playing startup and hustling, rather than giving the vibes of a real startup.

So do your homework.

I have seen some O visas, and they were all for people with phd

[fringe sphinx]

(Agree with everything above)

[turbid bobcat]

Yes I'm going to be careful, the swiftness of it is leaving me uneasy.

He's not alone though, has 2 other co-founders who actually came up with the hardware. I'll be able to assess how legit it is if I'm given access to the actual hardware. It's my previous field and it won't be easy to fool me.

It does raise the question of why they're not listed on LinkedIn. I'll just have to wait again.

[smoky quest]

it's normal for startups to not have a presence on linkedin.
It's neither a positive nor a negative.

[turbid bobcat]

I mean the co-founders, he's listed and is posting, but says there 1 employee

[fringe sphinx]

That’s not weird at all.

[smoky quest]

Things I would suggest to investigate:

• Cap table and investors, as mentioned earlier by @ billybobby. Make sure you get the name of the VCs so you can investigate them
• Try to understand at which phase they are at: do they have customers? Do they have development partners?
• Is this their first startup? If not, what was the story of their previous startups?
• How many employees, what's the overall funding, what's the runway, etc.

It's very likely your visa end up being one that is tied to the company (you could marry one of the cofounder, but let'signore that). As such, that means any risk to the company is a risk to your visa.

[turbid bobcat]

Wait why specifically one of the co-founders ?

[fringe sphinx]

Oh that’s a great point. Many (all?) work visas are tied to the job, if you get laid off or fired, you have an almost impossible task of landing somewhere else

[turbid bobcat]

I'll do my homework, I already can answer some of it

[turbid bobcat]

Yes it happened during the twitter thing. My plan would be to keep interviewing. But I also have fallbacks in case I have to come back. I'm in the middle of nowhere rn for good reason.

[fringe sphinx]

Alternative is to work remote/international. Get more xp on that resume/etc.

[turbid bobcat]

Been preparing this for a while, but yeah if it doesn't workout I'll just do more remote and circle back to try again. But I'm quite confident I'll be able to at least move to a good tech hub here in Europe.

[fringe sphinx]

I honestly mean this: given your posts in #data-science-and-ml , I have no doubt either.

[turbid bobcat]

Eh, I'm glad they're good ahah, still got tons to learn tho

[fringe sphinx]

That’s kinda my point, it’s not what you know, it’s that you’re purposefully learning

[turbid bobcat]

I usually choose to learn stuff that I really like, so it doesn't feel like a chore even when it gets hard

[dusky dune]

guys is mechatronics degree worth it?

[narrow oyster]

NVIA CEO saying devs will not exist anymore lol

[fringe sphinx]

I say that he won’t exist anymore. Who are you going to believe?

[narrow oyster]

Wish he didn't. I'm tired of CEOs thinking they are all-mighty and know-it-alls that can predict the future properly. They're mostly business men, not scientists

[fringe sphinx]

Never heard of it. Link?

[narrow oyster]

I reflected and realized that many of the code ChatGPT outpus nowadays is trash. Even me, who is not a dev still but a college student, can manage to produce better code and understand the solution better than AI

[pine sleet]

AI cannot "understand" anything so yes, the bar is very low there

[blazing harbor]

nvidia stock tho

2 trillion dollar market cap 😦

[turbid bobcat]

Assuming the number of parameters determines anything at all, I estimate that you'd need a model with more or less 10 quadrillion parameters to achieve AGI.

I arrived at that number via two independent paths, one of which was based on a study that determined how big a CNN you need to replicate the behaviour of a single neuron.

[smoky quest]

why not?

[pine sleet]

because it is not alive

[smoky quest]

being alive or not does not preclude abilities related to understanding and reasoning over information

[pine sleet]

neither does not being alive. it doesn't intuitively "understand" anything (the way humans typically use the word "understand")

but i suppose you could say, for LLMs, it "understands" the input to be able to act on it 🤷‍♂️

[fringe sphinx]

Something something Chinese room!

[tawdry sable]

ok

its like a inisght/internship for 3/4 weeks
tradeweb or td securities or marketaxess or marqeta or instinet

I cant pick i might go marketaxess or tradeweb they are big, tradeweb is more trading and tech which is cool but then marequeta nd instient are smaller and more related to api/finanical transactions with consumers and credit cards which is cooler and prob higher expectation

I just cant pick please help me pick which one pay is the same and no benefits or anything

[fringe sphinx]

Onsite or remote? Titles? All interns?

[turbid bobcat]

The problem with the chinese room is that my brain is a chinese room too

[tawdry sable]

on site all interns

[fringe sphinx]

NYC?

[tawdry sable]

london

[fringe sphinx]

Oh. Hmm. I’d pick based on commute, all things being equal

[tawdry sable]

exact same

[fringe sphinx]

And maybe proximity to other companies

[tawdry sable]

i want the one that would get me into google next year

or support my startup in future so i was thinking STARTUP VS big companies idk

and investment bank vs techncompany? its just sooo hard

[fringe sphinx]

Main thing is you want Engineering experience as an intern. Exposure to how a serious organization works

[tawdry sable]

this is so weird never heard of these yet they have the most interest in linkedin

[fringe sphinx]

Of those i really only know instinet

[tawdry sable]

ok so which firm is best to pick

[fringe sphinx]

Which location is best for you?

Rank them.

[tawdry sable]

i have never heard of them, why do u trust them

[tawdry sable]

i cant ngl i had a list of 20 removed loads of investment banks and private equity

[fringe sphinx]

Then ask; which of these seemed like serious engineering orgs, vs sloppy

[tawdry sable]

im learning toward tradeweb and marketaxess but marqeta and instient sound interesting and td would be good for cv.
Why did you mention instinet, how did u hear about them

[fringe sphinx]

And, which of the interviewers you actually want to work with

[tawdry sable]

i didnt interview at these i got intereviewed by a recuriting firm

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, they’re a significant player in nyc financials, I guess behind the scenes (institutional, not retail) but still well established at what they do

On the smaller side, so not too siloed

[tawdry sable]

u think they are best okay and then second and third who do i pick, i have to pick top 3

[fringe sphinx]

I didn’t say that, I really don’t know the others

[tawdry sable]

well im aiming for good companies people heard of cause my cv is unknown firms

[fringe sphinx]

My experience is unique: I know them because a friend worked there.

So don’t read into it

[tawdry sable]

does he like it, just checked their office is literally on londons most expensive streets

[fringe sphinx]

He did, left a while ago for another firm but not out of dissatisfaction

[tawdry sable]

more pay right? or he moved

[fringe sphinx]

I think it was for a promotion

[tawdry sable]

oh fair, so how do i pick second and third? TD sounds cool plus its an investment bank but tradeweb is cool but its stocks and marketaxess rejected me soo many times and its stock broker ish which is cooool

[fringe sphinx]

No idea. Just don’t overthink it: it sounds like you’ve got several good options and you don’t have sufficient data to make an informed decision

[tawdry sable]

bro i dont

if it wasnt this type of internship i would pick highest salary/free lunch/coolest office

[fringe sphinx]

Which one has more pubs near it?

[tawdry sable]

hahahaha lmao they all have the same amount just checked

[fringe sphinx]

Tube station?

[tawdry sable]

u know this one has a cool place its like a cool house near buckingham palace

[fringe sphinx]

Anyone in financial centre?

[tawdry sable]

all of them

altho TD is literally right next to bank of england (thats basicallt the federal reserve)

[blazing harbor]

Call me tacky but I just want good feedback from my manager and things I can write on my resume

[vapid jay]

Youtube, Reddit and literally everyone on every platform ever: "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA."

The only answer I have really gotten is : "Just make a full stack app for your first job, bro. Oh and know Kubernetes, Git, Docker, Github, etc."

I swear to god, if they do what happened ot my father and make me show up to these interviews to tell me :"Oh, you're Overqualified" I'm gonna-

inhales . . .How was YOUR day?

[fringe sphinx]

Who has given you that answer?

[vapid jay]

Youtube commenters and redditors.

Everyone else gives me a super vague answer after looking at my resume. "Make a project and demonstrate that you know what you're doing."

[fringe sphinx]

And you’re upset that you got bad advice from YouTubers! How dare they.

[vapid jay]

I know right?! I wish I could legally ki- Hang on. . . .checks list of politically correct grievance expressions. . . . "Un alive them."

[fringe sphinx]

My general advice, if you care, is: get good at something. Doesn’t matter what, but get as good as you can. Preferably something that interests you.

I’d think I’d rather see someone who geeked out on a RPi across multiple projects, than someone with a handful of light projects

[vapid jay]

Buddy, I know you mean well? But this is horrible advice.

It's literally the same vague non-answer that us people who haven't gotten our first jobs get from hired people.

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t think my advice is vague at all. Pick something and stick with it. I can’t tell you what to pick.

[vapid jay]

That's literally vague. . . .

[fringe sphinx]

:shrug: I dunno man

[vapid jay]

Look, I didn't come here to argue so I'm just gonna move along like Drake should have like 12 years ago.

[true harness]

what are you interested in?

[vapid jay]

Starting a business, but since I don't have startup capital or connections or other programmers, I was interested in A.I.

Then I found out I need a graduate degree to do that, so I basically settled on Python becasue I do NOT Want to do Web dev.

[fringe sphinx]

Incidentally, starting a business is about knowing customers.

[vapid jay]

Well, I have started two businesses already, one failed one I just sort of stopped.

Not saying I'm an expert or anything, its just I want to go bigger and reach more people.

I was interested in game development awhile back, but that industry has become so disgusting. . . Everything about it just urks me and I don't even play games anymore. X.x;

[hearty island]

the game dev industry is indeed awful now

[white relic]

Wasn't it always?

[vapid jay]

It used to be if you had vision or talent, you could be somebody.

[hearty island]

true

[fringe sphinx]

When was this?

[hearty island]

meant to respond to trentj

[vapid jay]

Todd Howard didn't become Todd Howard by not being talented.

[digital fjord]

There are more obscure fields around, CS research, networking, embedded dev, etc.
Maybe one of those you'll find interesting.

[vapid jay]

Think before all this money got involved and Call of Duty Sequels weren't flooding the market. I think Ps3/ Xbox 360 era was the golden age for devs, whereas PS4/ Xbox One was golden for players.

[white relic]

Certainly some people have made it as game devs, but that doesn't mean there weren't hundreds of people just as talented as Todd Howard who didn't make it

[vapid jay]

Fuck . . . Survivorship bias got me again.

Well, there WAS that one guy who wrote New Vegas. . . .

[white relic]

As I understand, big game studios have always been sweatshops

[fringe sphinx]

Who is Todd Howard? Genuinely no idea.

[vapid jay]

You know how they re-released Skyrim like 20 times and that skinny dude always goes up on stage to tell you about it? That guy.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh. What had he done since then? Was he responsible for starfield sucking?

[vapid jay]

If Starfield was good he would have gotten credit for it being good, so yes he is responsible.

[fringe sphinx]

No Mans Sky was better, and first.

[white relic]

can't argue with that logic

[worldly gyro]

Do You guys think its even possible to enter python industry now? Like ive been learning python a lot recently, but looking at 30 job offers in my country and over 200 applicants for each of them makes me wonder if i should switch to becoming a plumber or something, 23 Yo finishing IT degree by the way

[fringe sphinx]

What country’s

[worldly gyro]

Poland it is

[vapid jay]

I can say this: I'm not opposed to the idea of making tools for full stack applications, which is what Python is used for , no?

[true harness]

what is "making tools for full stack applications" if not web dev 🤔

[vapid jay]

I will brain you. . . 😂

Hello

[minor sage]

The issue with game dev is that everybody on earth who has ever played a video game and also learned basic programming has thought about doing it

[vapid jay]

Ugh have the same problem when someone try to started Python

[fringe sphinx]

There’s different things you could focus on. You could focus on applied ML and MLOps: definitely an area with a lot of interest that also has good crossover to non ML skills.

[minor sage]

No kid has ever had a dream that one day they'll be writing an inventory and fulfilment mainframe for a shoe distributor

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, the advanced positions are graduated degree heavy, but MLOps is about SWEing

[vapid jay]

Yeah, but dude. . .Don't I need a graduates degree for that? I'll look at the ping later, brb.

[fringe sphinx]

I qualified it with ‘applied’ and mlops.

[vapid jay]

You are know the problem when everyone wanna start goes to Python right? By install pip

[fringe sphinx]

I’ve enjoyed some really mundane sounding work: because it genuinely improved the worklofe of other ppl

[digital fjord]

Hmmm, one country over (Czechia) things are fine-ish, me and my classmates are getting hired for python stuff.

[vapid jay]

Why is taking so long?

[fringe sphinx]

Why is what?

[vapid jay]

I wait any message to reply my message-.-

[fringe sphinx]

Your question has nothing to do with this channel. This is #career-advice

Maybe ask in #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

Okay sorry

[worldly gyro]

Well i hope its popular for python junior’s to work remotely, or even to move to another country, and im definetly fine with that, god i am so happy i know english

[minor sage]

Sure, I'm not saying that work would be boring at all. Fulfillment systems are actually probably quite interesting to work on. But the industry for them doesn't have an artificially inflated supply due to people being passionate about or interested in shoe fulfillment at a large scale

[digital fjord]

You may also want to look across multiple sources for jobs, a lot of peeps get hired from meeting companies in-person at career fairs and such, your uni should be running a couple.

[worldly gyro]

Yee well im finishing my thesis now so too late for that, but im starting another degree in computer science right after that so yeah i hope they have such things there

[fringe sphinx]

Also, network. Stay in touch h with students who have graduated. Ask for referrals, etc

[worldly gyro]

And by the way, tomorrow i have my first one and only chance for a whole year probably, trainee software engineer position in one of the very few companies here so yeah wish me luck haha

[low epoch]

Hey guys, new member here 🙂

[regal axle]

It is now March! Time to hear back from schools. I hope ...
After all of that, I better get into at least one place. I will be pretty upset if I don't. 🤞

[hearty island]

it’s now march and i graduate in may. hopefully i land a job 😭

[low epoch]

Wishing you guys the best of luck!

[hearty island]

thanks!!!

[vapid jay]

Maybe I should be more rational. . . I am not going to say no to web dev as my first job, but "applied" ML and MLOP. . . .So if I'm reading between the lines that means I don't necessarily need an adv degree for that

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, there’s still a lot of SWE work in mlops and data engineering that’s not graduate degree stuff. And I’d argue there’s a greater opportunity there: let everyone else chase the fewer data science jobs

[vapid jay]

Alright.

so my plan to get hired in May is to have this email application more or less done by then and have at LEAST Sockets and Kubernetes under my belt.

Programming Python has you making a full stack email application, server, front end, everything.

[fringe sphinx]

Sure, that’s a great lesson.

Lots of concepts to learn

[vapid jay]

I'll worry about what im interested in after my first job, right now I just need my start man.

So for now, Web dev it is! Buwahahahahaha

God I hope I don't end up at Amazon. . . .Anything but that. . . .

[fringe sphinx]

So, after all, you’re following the original plan? ^

[vapid jay]

A less exhaustive version of the OG plan.

Rather than everything, I'll just sit on 2-3 of them. Most applicants probably don't have any of them.

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, well vague dad advice time: as long as you’re learning something new everyday

[vapid jay]

YOU AREN'T THE BOSS OF ME!.. Wait, that's not right. . . .

Uhhh, hang on. . .examines son dialogue. . .Gimmie a minute, I haven't done this in awhile. . . .

Uhhh. . .It says here I should say: "Thank you, I will do that and I'll make you proud. ^^"

. . .I'm gonna call my dad. Thx Bill

[proven pulsar]

Hi guys I'm highschool student and I want to take CS in college, may i ask what are the subjects in CS and any advice?

[peak halo]

If you don't already like math, start cultivating a positive attitude about learning math.

[fading willow]

Sup,I'm doing artificial intelligence data science,I'm looking to be an Ai engineer,so which programming should I focus on?

[proven pulsar]

Python

[fading willow]

Aight

Somehow I should know the basics of c++ nd Java to survive

[proven pulsar]

take it easy one language at a time

[fading willow]

Aight man

What do you prefer, should I study on my own or to join some institution for it.

I'm confused abt it.

[kindred oyster]

are you in high school ?

[fading willow]

Cuz I'll be certified if i do on academics yk

[proven pulsar]

You can do both

[fading willow]

Nah I'm doing AI

[kindred oyster]

i mean , how old are you ?

[fading willow]

Yeah

[fading willow]

19

[kindred oyster]

then go for a CS degree, it helps A LOT to get a job

sure, you can self learn whatever is taught , but you will have a very hard time when it comes to finding jobs

[proven pulsar]

Do you know subjects taught in CS?

[fading willow]

Fr

[kindred oyster]

depends from course to course
but you can expect basic os, dbms, maths, 2-3 langs, dsa , etc

[proven pulsar]

ok thanks

[fading willow]

Actually I'm not expecting much,I just have to learn skills of getting $40,000 per annum

[smoky quest]

at 19 years old, a CS degree would still make sense. It's the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[nova crest]

I learned advanced topics on python, how to find any rpoject on github to which i can contribute, to continue learning?

[gentle sierra]

guyswill the kaggle dataset projects be enough for me rn i just finished 12th
yk those data clean up visualization and training projects

[buoyant seal]

enough for what?

[gentle sierra]

yk before college

[fading willow]

Aight

[dusky dune]

what are some good robotics degrees?

[gentle sierra]

@buoyant seal

[buoyant seal]

at your level i recommend just doing more practice in projects u have fun
https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html

it will be especially great if u will be able to build some products for your own every day usage or for other users.
no a "real world app" but something that u or your friends/acquintances in your communities can use.

Enthusiasm matters. Choose something u are trully passionate about
That is a fuel helping you iteratively improving product to infinity.
Build gaming mod, or everyday your own organizer and etc. Something that u trully need or desire
Then u will be a true expert exploring in depth how the relevant stuff is built and capable to speek about your project in details

I do recommend also reading Code Complete
https://www.amazon.com/Code-Complete-Practical-Handbook-Construction/dp/0735619670
This is a very encompassing book covering a lot of aspects of Software engineering
in terms of writing cleaner code, or how to write code in general

[buoyant seal]

if by any chance kaggle stuff/data science/machine learning is your true passion, sure, go for that
but otherwise recommendation at your level to try everything. trying kaggle, trying building web sites, desktop apps, mobile apps.

you are at stage where u need to find what u like to work with since you are just finishing 12th grade

Find a job you enjoy doing, and you will never have to work a day in your life
and that is a goal to find

[buoyant seal]

Esentially at your level will be great having more practice in any coding project
and the best will be if it will be in some you are passionate about.
if it is data science okay, but i hope u chose it because u like it and not because of big bucks ^_^

[proven pulsar]

Hi everyone, I'd like to seek your advice. Initially, I started learning programming because I was fascinated by how games are made. However, as I delved deeper into programming, I realized that software engineering offers higher salaries compared to game development. Given my family's financial situation, I aim to pursue a career with a high-paying salary to support my family. Should I pursue my passions or prioritize my family first?

[buoyant seal]

game development is software engineering

very competitive and stressful though in some parts, yet same software engineering as others and u can work in it full time if desired to pursue.
may be u was talking about making your own games and being enterpreneur?

[dusky igloo]

hi everuyone i'm new her i can't type this script who can help me??

[proven pulsar]

I want to enter a company first to gain experience.

[dusky igloo]

who can help me please

[proven pulsar]

Go to web development discussion

[dusky igloo]

where

[proven pulsar]

#web-development

[dusky igloo]

but this is for discord bot

[proven pulsar]

#discord-bots

[dusky igloo]

not web

[kindred oyster]

then ask in #discord-bots
this channel is not for asking help with code , read the channel descirption to see what the channel is about

[dusky igloo]

but where i can ask to help me in a code can you help me in dm

[proven pulsar]

You can ask in #discord-bots they can help you

[kindred oyster]

#python-discussion is for general python talk
#1035199133436354600 is the dedicated help system

apart from these two , there are topic specific channels to ask help
so for example , for discord bots, you can use #discord-bots channel

and we do not do help over DM , if you have a question , ask in this public server , no DMs

[dusky igloo]

ok thanks my niga

[kindred oyster]

sorry ?

[dusky igloo]

i say thank you

[kindred oyster]

yeah , but no need to use racial slurrs

[dusky igloo]

no i sont racial whe say that me and my freinds where are you from i'm morroco

[proven pulsar]

in case be mindful of words some people will find it offensive

[dusky igloo]

ah ok i'm so sorry bro @kindred oyster

[gritty rivet]

What exactly is the choice you are facing? Do you have competing job offers in hand? Are you trying to pick between degree programs? Or are you in high school dreaming about your future?

[proven pulsar]

I'm still in highschool

[fringe sphinx]

Some advice from one of the greats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QxI-RP6-HM

Everything in this is 100% spot on.

[hearty island]

"Unfortunately, we have decided not to proceed with your candidacy for the current opening at Accenture Federal Services.

We received many qualified applicants and have decided to move ahead with another candidate who we feel is a better match for this particular position.

Thanks again for your interest in Accenture Federal Services and we wish you luck in your search.

Thank you,

Name" not helpful accenture, what role???

[gritty rivet]

Cool, then you have no need to choose anytime soon. Pursuing a CS degree will be the best preparation for both paths

[proven pulsar]

thanks for your advice

[rich lotus]

should i study choose ai specialization for my engineering course ?

[fringe sphinx]

Watch that video above 🙂

[gentle sierra]

ty very much duck

[spice frigate]

Anyone having luck finding 100% remote positions in the US with 2 YoE at the moment? Full stack dev

[white relic]

Are you based in the US or hoping to find a US based position with an international remote option?

One is rare but the other is made of unicorn blood

[fringe sphinx]

Won't someone think of the poor unicorns?

[near ocean]

Feels pretty weird to have gotten one at 10 months exp lmao

[fringe sphinx]

A unicorn or a US remote job?

[near ocean]

A remote job, not in the us though

Unicorns still elusive 🦄

[hearty island]

me when i add jobs that are like 3+ years of experience to my application list and look at them the day later

https://tenor.com/view/why-just-why-but-why-monkey-gif-18202838286539704455

don't apply for jobs that require 3+ years of experience if you're just coming out of college peeps

[tame falcon]

Anyone know any good sites to find in person hackathons? (Sorry if this is wrong, didn’t know what channel to put this in)

[vital wyvern]

@fringe sphinx Opinion question gamer (and for anyone else really.)
I run Vipyr. It's a very high impact project. I don't monetize, but it's... basically a full time job, with an extremely observable effect on the Python ecosystem, including individuals who can vet the actual results of our efforts.

Do you think that would constitute employment experience or is it still better to put it under personal projects?

[harsh river]

make a non profit org

[vital wyvern]

I don't want to bother with the... implications of all that. 😔

[near ocean]

Is it much effort? If not then just do it

[vital wyvern]

Yes it's a ton of effort.

[near ocean]

It legitimizes everything, i'd put the vipyr thingy into work exp

[vital wyvern]

I have to file articles of incorporation, then get approval from the state that it's registered in, then do a lot of tax paperwork, etc.

[near ocean]

Get @true harness to do it

[vital wyvern]

There is nothing more terrifying than the thought of having psvm control the fate of our org.

[near ocean]

Do you get no money through it? Donations, etc?

[vital wyvern]

Nada. I reached out for sponsorships/funding this weekend through some various services we use, but just waiting on a reply for that.

I just don't know how... I mean it's objectively work experience, and it involves a lot more than just me so it feels like casting it as a personal project is a little reductionist.

[near ocean]

If you think it quacks like a duck...
Throw it in work exp

[leaden jasper]

Creating a nonprofit in the US isn't that much work honestly, but it does some money just for various filing fees (~$1000 total).

If you make no money from it and it's not a registered organization of any kind, then I would still count it as a personal project tbh. From the outside, with none of the other markers, it just sounds like a group of people with a passion project.

[vital wyvern]

Yeah, I think that's a fair take. I don't mind shedding the money out for it, but that's nearly our yearly infra budget. We have some avenues with the PSF to start poking at for becoming a bit more legitimized, especially since the sphere is mostly occupied by corporations that are almost entirely closed source at the moment. We comprise >50% of malicious package detections and removals in the PyPI ecosystem. So we hold a lion's share in 'clout' when it comes to... impact on the ecosystem. But selling that as... "This is a very high impact personal project," has been difficult.

[leaden jasper]

What about it has been difficult?

[vital wyvern]

Well when I look at the project on my resume, I think it's easy to kind of gloss over the implications of the bullets. PyPI removed their malware detection infrastructure after we stepped in specifically to enable orgs like ours to prop up their detection measures. As such, the impact of us not being here would be... an overwhelming increase in proliferation of malware on the Python Package Index.

But since we're not really formalized in that position, everyone kind of says "Okay we'll make money off of this by selling our services and purely by coincidence we'll also report things we find." Conversely, we make zero money, have nothing to sell, and as such-- while it's not as legitimized, the impact is higher and at zero cost to end users.

But saying "Well when we started up PyPI decided that their malware detections were inadequate, and deprecated them in favor of services like ours," is hard to prove, despite it being an objective truth.

[leaden jasper]

fwiw I think it grabs enough attention and the bullet points bring enough impact. It does sound impressive and it being listed under "Projects" doesn't really take away from it.

[vital wyvern]

That's reassuring. I'm very discouraged lately. This is something I care a lot about, and specifically, I care a lot about keeping it free and beneficial to end users. But it does feel often that electing do to that means we'll forever occupy this weird "You're not real," kind of niche.

[leaden jasper]

I think it's fine especially in the computer science (and adjacent world). People are much more willing to understand the importance of a project like that, especially when you consider all the OSS work that is valued.

[vital wyvern]

Fair point. I guess the big ticket item on the resume is to find some tangible hands on Infosec experience with a legitimized employer then to try and gain some career momentum and get my foot in the door.

[fringe sphinx]

I’m dealing with some stuff right now, I’ll give it a closer read later

[silk yoke]

So my current job title is software developer and most of my time is spent building custom automation tools along with overseeing a team of 5 devs oversees including myself in the development of our own CRM. Im 26 yrs old and I hold a bachelors in business management. During my senior year i got an internship as a project manager for a small startup before moving to a UX Manager position which now i did this for about 6 months then we shut down to funding. During this time i learned ux design principles and started teaching myself to code. Between then and now (2 years) i have gotten interviews at Acorns and BofA for swe/swd roles and really because i went in person to many companies dropping off my resume searching for a job which led to me handing my resume to the right person that gave me a shot. I ended really putting my skills to use about 2 months after losing my first job when my cousin a QA engineer started paying me to write test automations for her. I ended up getting a job as a frontend developer for another start up which was my last job (i also had a sales job while working here) before moving to my current job which i have been at for 5 months now. I work for a debt company at the moment and besides out oversees developers i am the only developer. We have IT professionals which i work very closely with and even though they have some knowledge in the field their skill set and expertise is quite different. I know i am extremely lucky to be in my position with my limited experience but i don’t see this company needing me much more especially after completing the development of their crm. Now im saying all of this because my question is will i have a hard time getting a swe/swd job at another company and not necessarily a fang but a company that is in the tech industry given my experience and lack of a cs degree? And if so what somewhat technical roles can I look into given my background

[deft herald]

TL;DR:

Now im saying all of this because my question is will i have a hard time getting a swe/swd job at another company and not necessarily a fang but a company that is in the tech industry given my experience and lack of a cs degree?

I dunno - what does your gut tell you?

Seems to me like you have more than enough good experience to get yourself another job in tech. Do you have any degree or did you drop out?

[white relic]

I hold a bachelors in business management

[deft herald]

oh thanks, that got lost in the wall

[silk yoke]

I graduated with a business degree

[deft herald]

Yeah i think you'll be okay

[fringe sphinx]

It’s an interesting question. First, you have ‘work experience’, and better to just say ‘experience’. You could list it as experience, but I think you’d want to mark it as volunteer: it would feel deceitful to list it as experience -without- noting the volunteer nature of it

[feral monolith]

man does any one knows how to use wordpress

i need some immediate help

[crisp stream]

this is #career-advice
perhaps try one of the off-topic channels or a Wordpress-related Discord server (I do not know of one)

[vital wyvern]

That's fair.

[buoyant seal]

Trying to figure out:
BM degree
6 months interned as PM (bonus: UX + coding)
2 months swe
Unknown time QA
Unknown time Frontend dev
Unknown in total for 1.5 year?
5 months swe CRM builder.

Desiring working as SWE further.
May be u could drop anomymized resume that will be a bit more clear to read?
I am trying to figure out your job role inclinations

[fringe sphinx]

My usual advice is: the first words of the first bullet is precious real estate: it might be the only thing a screener reads. Use it wisely.

For Vipyr, I think the first bullet isn’t about you… it’s about the org. Interesting but not what I’d lead with.

[vital wyvern]

Hm. That's a good point, perhaps I'll retool that to indicate the role I play in it all.

[fringe sphinx]

If you were applying to SWE positions, I’d lead with ‘Developed Python application…’ or ‘Using React with Xyz….’. Not sure equivalent for the positions you’re looking for, but try to make that connection between the target role

[vital wyvern]

Ack

[analog sun]

!rule 5 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[analog sun]

This is not the server you are looking for

[main bronze]

Sure

[main bronze]

Then where to look man. I am confused bout it

Anyways, I follow your rules. I follow the policies sure I am leaving if it's the Problem

[tender sun]

Hi, how should a resume be prepared for someone that has failed to get an internship during their cs degree but did a lot of projects and let's say they have recently graduated?

[near remnant]

hi

[smoky quest]

don't put a section about internships

[tender sun]

So just a section , that contains projects is okay?

Assuming we design our resume in this order skills > education > projects , is this appropriate?

[lament plover]

Hello. Anyone know what an entry level python programming job looks like or where one would get one?

[smoky quest]

Sure. It's not like you have a choice anyway

[smoky quest]

Linkedin or indeed are great places to start

[lament plover]

Any decent tips on avoiding scams etc? That's my biggest concern cause I've never worked a remote programming job before

[smoky quest]

• Why did you remove your bsc/sans?
• For your skills, are you saying you are most familiar with bash over other languages? Skills you know the most would typically put first
• Nitpick, but you don't really need a dot at the end of each bullet considering your resume is using a lot of bullets
• I think an internship in cybersercurity would completement it well

[near remnant]

guys, i got an offer, from a very small tech startup, insane salary, full remote and the newest technologies, so really good. but there is one thing which is weird to me:
they use ticket system and everything, sprints, etc., but don't use time tracking, they said they only care about what we do and not about hours, so just work on the milestones and its fine. at my previous jobs we used time tracking so that is why i find it kind of weird that they don't use it. on the other hand tho, im glad.

this sounds too good to be true

[lament plover]

If they pay you a sign-on bonus I'd be happy using a stone tablet to code on

[smoky quest]

if it sounds too good to be true, it generally is

[tender sun]

How would you suggest we generally describe a project we did on the resume , like what all points about it must be there ?

[smoky quest]

You can describe what it is about, its impact and some cool stuff about it

[near remnant]

im actually working there for a couple of weeks now, but wanted to know your guys reaction to this. this is honestly my best job so far, have flexibility, learn a lot because of the startup nature and the fact that they care about the work done and not time tracking every seconds of the day makes it really nice. of course there are cons as well but it doesn't matter

[tender sun]

Is this a good way to put all the points together?

[pine sleet]

it might be better to move the "technologies" section into where the source code currently is

Something like

Video Streaming Server | Express.JS, Mongoose, JWT, ...

but also you focus more on how it works than impact

[smoky quest]

yeah, it's pretty good

[smoky quest]

what you described is the standard for tech startups

[pine sleet]

the third bullet point is especially pretty good

[tender sun]

What would be a good way to present impact on a hobby/personal project where it was developed for resumes as in it wasn't built for users , maybe let's say for deployment cost reasons

[near remnant]

oh really? i didn't know mate but i like it. hope i can stay here as long as possible and maybe find a new startup job in the future after this. thank you bro

[vital wyvern]

There's a second page, I just trimmed it off for posting here because my original point wasn't a full resume review.

The skills section is alphabetized tbh. I wasn't sure... how to orient skills properly, so I just alphabetized it.

[smoky quest]

• If you are starting out in the field, trim it to one page. No one is going to look for your bsc on the second page
• Order them assuming that after each keyword it will be less likely to be read

[vital wyvern]

I'm not sure... how to trim this down effectively. I've been struggling with that a lot. I have ~9 years of experience but it's not suuuuper relevant. But some of it... is. I tried to keep the relevant things on there, and move them down the list as I think they pertain less. E.g., DoE inspections on USAF work experience are at the bottom, but its records compliance, which is still a reasonable skill to have for Cybersecurity professionals.

For instance my primary duty wasn't in any sort of IT stuff in the Air Force, but I have plenty of peripheral IT bullets. My background/duty title isn't in IT, but we had additional duties, where I was embedded as an IT manager within my unit itself.

If someone asks me what I did in the Air Force, I would objectivley be lying if I just had IT bullets on there, because I did an unbelievable amount of stuff that had absolutely nothing to do with my actual... job.

Which is how I end up with an "Analytics Manager" title but almost entirely embedded systems and configuration management bullets.

[smoky quest]

You can skip on the irrelevant stuff without misrepresenting yourself.
You can try to shorten or combine some of the bullets, reducing some of the spacing and even the font if necessary

Something hurting you with that resume is that all the dates for your certs are like 4 years in the future.

[vital wyvern]

That's the expiration date, is that not... clear?

[tawdry sable]

Guys

[smoky quest]

so you sound like a 18 years old who will start their college this year?
when we both know you have been speedrunning school

[tawdry sable]

i cant find the uk office of the place im going to? its a famous company called **marqeta ** but i cant find their uk office wth i only find their us office HQ location

[true harness]

I thought that it was odd as well, but I don't see certs often, so I don't know. it could help to put a range, or explicitly said "Expires..."

[vital wyvern]

I mean I'm not sure how to solve that lmfao.

[smoky quest]

add a start year and your bsc at the top

[vital wyvern]

I've been told by numerous infosec professionals now every time I move my education to the top of my resume that it must be at the bottom.

[smoky quest]

that's bs

[vital wyvern]

It's happened 6 times now that the only relevant thing that I bring to the table is certifications and project experience.

[smoky quest]

They are just eliminating the competition

[vital wyvern]

They're hiring manager or execs 😔

[smoky quest]

yet, all the security related resumes I see have the degree at the top 🤔

[vital wyvern]

Back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and...

[smoky quest]

don't trust strangers on the internet

[true harness]

do AB testing

[fringe sphinx]

For military, sometimes just the title and years is sufficient if you have other meat to fill out the resume.

[vital wyvern]

This resume struggle is causing me to lose meat in my brain.

How's this?

@true harness wtf is going on with the certification section spacing.

\section{Certifications}
\resumeSubheadingListStart
  \resumeSubheading{Certified Incident Handler (GCIH)}{Mar. 2024 - Mar. 2028}{Global Information Assurance Certification (GIAC)}{}
  \resumeSubheading{Security Essentials (GSEC)}{Feb. 2024 - Feb. 2028}{GIAC}{}
\resumeSubheadingListEnd``` ??? There's nothing goofy in here that should be causing it to space unevenly.

[fringe sphinx]

The padding between section and first section seems unnecessarily wide, minor but my graphic design ocd is triggered

[smoky quest]

• make sure the certs dates are explicit it's about their validity, not when you are planning to get them. It may not necessarily be obvious to people who skim resumes
• the dots still triggers me

Otherwise, much better!

[fringe sphinx]

For sans/education, I might put BS as the headline (top) rather than institution.

[true harness]

uh. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[fringe sphinx]

On certs, yah, maybe just list the year granted. The expiration isn’t very interesting

[vital wyvern]

🥴

[smoky quest]

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/21422-i-didn-t-have-time-to-write-a-short-letter-so

[vital wyvern]

What dots did you want gone, the ones on the bullets themselves?

[vital wyvern]

They're good dots 😔

[true harness]

sentences have dots

[vital wyvern]

They are objectively sentences.

Take three.

[smoky quest]

Interviewers/managers are lean mean pattern matching machines. Any pattern will distract them

I have 30-45s to give your resume to make a decision. You don't want me to waste even 2s being distracted by anything other than your awesomeness.

[fringe sphinx]

This isn’t my space, but: I think you’d want Ghidra, Wireshark and gdb to be very noticeable

[true harness]

wouldn't it also present the other way though. if you don't include it, someone will be accustomed to seeing it

[vital wyvern]

Wireshark yes, Ghidra and gdb probably less so. That is very niche technology that, while I'm good at, isn't as relevant for entry level roles.

[smoky quest]

No one will care if they focus on their awesomeness. It's not like they had a bunch of typos.

[fringe sphinx]

And something about writing code… not clear if you ever know Python (from resume bullets)

[vital wyvern]

I don't have roooooom

[fringe sphinx]

My whole screen focus is: is this person a geek/techie/coder/engineer (any one or multiple)

[white relic]

I suspect it's because the body is empty and that's where the inter-section spacing would normally be defined

You don't see it under the BS Cybersecurity heading because of the bullet point

[fringe sphinx]

“Led design and development of distributed Python application for detection of malicious software packages on PyPI” could collapse two bullets into one.

[vital wyvern]

It's not just Python, it's Rust too 😔

That's what I was talking about when I was referring to the scope of this project earlier...
We touch so much shit, we have so many projects under Vipyr that trying to bundle them up into a single discrete project point is next to impossible.
I hand wrote several deobfuscators in Python. I have no idea how to even include those, despite them having extremely tangible real world impact to anyone that's performing malware analysis.

[fringe sphinx]

Led development of Rust and Python tools for Malware detection and analysis, including deobfuscators, abc and def

[hearty island]

guys i got referred to the hiring manager for a role for NIST 🙂. no security clearance required

[vital wyvern]

At this rate it's starting to feel like I'm going to spit out an SWE resume.

[hearty island]

which means no poly

[spice frigate]

Based in the US, US remote job

[white relic]

Oh, OK. Still, though...

[spice frigate]

I currently have what used to be a 100% remote dev, 60% now, but I would not consider a non-remote position long term, maybe just to use them for exp or to stack pay

Not going to justify it just curious if I should settle for something 60-80% temporarily

[white relic]

100% remote junior positions exist but they aren't common. Depends on where you're looking (both regionally and in what field). I wouldn't hire you if you told me that.

[spice frigate]

Yeah obviously that's not great to say publicly

[near remnant]

Im a junior with around 2 years of exp and work 100% remotely

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t think fully remote is healthy for junior engineers, but I also don’t think fully in office is healthy or realistic anymore. So, 🤷🏻 let them eat cake, I guess

[near remnant]

Or u talking about juniors with 0 experience? @white relic

[white relic]

I am not financially independent so I have to pretend.
seems like a really negative way to look at employment, tbh. I mean, I don't like filing tickets or attending team meetings, but I don't feel like I'm pretending to like them because I'm not rich

[fringe sphinx]

2 days in office is too much? Good luck to this generation.

I’m going to let the snark fly: some people think they deserve big bucks for minimal effort and contribution.

You started with 2 days a week being too much. Good luck expecting a six figure salary

[white relic]

personally I spend some of that time in a million dollar lab that I can't just pack in a backpack and take home.
I get that some jobs are more able to be remote, but it rubs me the wrong way when people act like they're being exploited because the big bad manager asked them to leave the basement once in a while.

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, and the relationships and skills you’re missing will severely limit your potential. If not important, great.

[white relic]

ok maybe too much snark (from me)

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I got triggered too

[white relic]

You're entitled to make that decision for yourself.

[fringe sphinx]

Great. I believe you’re expressing an extreme point of view vs the average.

(With regard to the 2 days a week being too much)

(Re: 5 days, I’m with you)

[white relic]

I would be careful about the assumption that 100% remote = good wlb

[smoky quest]

that sounds like an unhealthy pov.
Wanting to do something that is outside of the average range means there will be a trade off to be made. That can mean friction to get a job.

In general, juniors require more mentorship and attention. As such, they are frequently asked to be in the office. That's also how I operate.

[fringe sphinx]

My trigger are the people seeking the big bucks but expecting to be treated like royalty.

If that’s coupled with: ‘they only pay me for 40 hours and I never go above and beyond’, I can’t even with that.

Yah, there’s some folks who just don’t believe in that, those truly trigger me

Like wlb is important, but don’t complain if you have to fix a bug after hours a few times

[spice frigate]

Like it's considered really odd here for me to ask how reasonable it is to get a 100% remote position, but it's not odd at all for a company to do much worse things to their employees

[smoky quest]

so do employers 😉

[gritty rivet]

I'm not sure I follow what you mean about setting your "bar".

You apply for jobs and you accept the most desirable offer. If 100% remote is desirable to you then it sounds likely that you'll want to leave

[fringe sphinx]

I think this is just the weirdness post Covid

[smoky quest]

you could look at the secretary problem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem

[fringe sphinx]

Hah, I remember from last time you mentioned

[smoky quest]

Though, in practice, if you get 2 offers, that's already a very good sign.

[white relic]

a company to do much worse things to their employees
I think most of us frown on exploiting workers, but expecting employees to come in to the office a few days a week for mentoring and in-person collaboration (when you pay wages that are competitive locally) is on a rather different level than withholding pay or skimming from the pension fund

I'm not sure what really "much worse things" refers to here, is what I'm saying

another way to look at it: it's unreasonable to expect a 100% remote junior position (even if some people do get them, dos) because there's no shortage of junior engineers who are willing to take that same position at 60% remote, if the company wants them

[zealous path]

@spice frigate
As @white relic said, it’s not unheard of and you just need to get lucky if you wanna be 100% remote.
My company is being very stern on 2 days a week in the office whilst my wife’s only in her office once a year. However, I work in my city whilst her office is a 3hour train ride away.

[fringe sphinx]

In nyc, companies are moving to 4 days rto for engineers. I think that’s a hard sell nowadays, curious what’ll happen to the SWE market

[white relic]

NYC at least has functional transit 🤷‍♂️ most US cities don't

But I don't know what companies are doing in other cities.
Mine is a special case in a couple of ways.

[zealous path]

Laughs in European

realises I only have good transit cause I’m in the capital and even then it’s fairly bad

[white relic]

I do agree 4 days rto is a hard sell in the current environment

[true harness]

my upcoming internship is 4 in office. my previous one was only 2 😔 📉

[fringe sphinx]

I think that’s healthy for intern

You want experience, not just a check

And relationships

[true harness]

i think so too. we'll see how it turns out. the problem was that everyone was mostly remote, except "together tuesdays", so going to the office more didn't really affect anything

[fringe sphinx]

Oh that’s annoying

[true harness]

easy parking though

[digital fjord]

Yeah, going into the office is nice if people are... in the office, and we have exactly one such person. When there were more distractions at home, I went fairly regularly, but these days, there is just no point.

[zealous path]

@true harness how long have you been interning for?

[gritty rivet]

Personally I work at an office-less company and it would be super hard to go back for any amount of money. There is literally nothing I miss about 4 days in-office

[zealous path]

Going into the office for me is:

• 3 hour travel (both ways)
• 30% less time to do work

[digital fjord]

yeah, in that case it is truly a waste of time.

I have it what... 20 minutes each time

[fringe sphinx]

I won’t take a job more than 30min away

[zealous path]

Do you live in the city centre?

[fringe sphinx]

Nope, suburbs

But a tech heavy area

I’ve worked a full circle around my location over past decades

[true harness]

almost a year now

[zealous path]

Fair

[fringe sphinx]

Also city is exactly 30 min away, so it’s kinda cheating

[white relic]

I live in one of the worst areas for commuting in the US. 30 minutes wouldn't get me to work half the time and I live and work on the same side of the city

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I couldn’t get to city in 30 minutes for a commute, Tbf

(Train I guess)

Curious what the worst commute city is. Gotta be California for the absolute worst

But tied between La and Bay Area

[true harness]

i live right outside a city (1 hour run) and it's still a 30-45 min commute 🙄

[white relic]

I understand Cali is worse but I live in central Florida 🐊

[fringe sphinx]

Really? Commute that bad? Never knew

[white relic]

It's been getting worse forever and Covid accelerated it. Lots of people moving here and not enough infrastructure spending to keep things moving.
But this is getting pretty OT

[zealous path]

Don’t remember which state but I heard there’s a lot of new houses being built that the general population simply can’t afford. Apparently the occupancy rate is only like 30%

[white relic]

Circling back around, part of my point that got lost was that I get a salary that is competitive locally, and it's understood that I use some of that to maintain my living situation and commute, even though I'm not on the clock.

If you work in an area where you have to live a 3 hour commute away just to afford an apartment, well, they're not paying you well enough to be in the office 4 days a week.

(OTOH, if they pay you well enough to get an apartment in the city center and you choose to live three hours away... there's some nuance there.)

[fringe sphinx]

Ugh, reminds me of one of my bad hires who said they’d move and didn’t.

(Who, after said long commute, fell asleep at his desk every day)

[worldly gyro]

Yo guys, after the interview.
If anybody is interested, some info about it
Dont stress so much (like me) about intern or trainee software engineer position, most of the questions were behavioral and one pretty simple(which of course i had some problems to solve because of the stress) technical exercise to do.
It was really stressful but eventually i somehow managed to finish the interview, now im gonna wait for their decision

[mortal gorge]

can anyone suggest me from where i can learn python from ( and dont tell me ki internet se)

[crisp stream]

This is #career-advice
Try asking in #python-discussion

[smoky quest]

Hi!
We don't do ads

<@&831776746206265384> ad from a username, profile description and message all about paid services

[karmic merlin]

!cban 1177486895966605383 We are not an ad board. Don't use us as one.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @clever idol permanently.

[zealous sage]

when i do print(title) before for i see the title but when i do print(title) in for i dont see anything
titles = driver.find_elements(By.CLASS_NAME, "PLP_product-title")
prices = driver.find_elements(By.CLASS_NAME, "ProductPrice_actual-price.actual-price")
availability = driver.find_elements(By.CLASS_NAME, "Product_stock-value")
reference = driver.find_elements(By.CSS_SELECTOR, ".PLP_product-id-name + span")
description = driver.find_elements(By.CLASS_NAME, 'PLP_product-attributes')
tax_id = "57"

            for title_ls, reference_ls, price_ls, availability_ls, description_ls, img_ls in zip(titles, reference, prices,availability,description,img_list):

[smoky quest]

This is #career-advice
Try asking in #python-discussion

See ^

[vapid jay]

Hello

[verbal wolf]

Sup peeps

Is doing data analyst still good as an entryway for a Machine Learning career or not?

[fringe sequoia]

Any tips to learn python for carrier change? I'm a PHP dev now and I think I want to move away from web, but still want to keep that option for later (Flask, Django) and if so what do you think is the most fun area of python that worths a shot?

[ivory sluice]

hey @near ocean or other UK folk: what are the go-to resources for pay bands in the UK based on levels of experience, industry, uni degree/apprenticeship, location, etc.
i searched "mid level software developer" on uk.indeed.com for a specific area and it shows an average base salary of 53k pounds. but looks like it's a sample size of 3 and it doesn't get any more specific with years of experience or anything

[near ocean]

If youre talking about a levels.fyi equivalent i dont think there is one
I just use glassdoor tbh

Theres also payscale but havent used that one

Glassdoor says average is just under £53k for all levels of experience, 5.6k salaries polled

If you filter for 4-6 years exp it goes up to 57k

[hearty island]

YES

got to the next round for my internal interview 🙂. not only that, but the interviewer also said he wants me to apply to another internal role too!

i'm just not a big fan of it being only $65K

[gritty rivet]

For your first full-time job? It is a tad low but once you have even 6mo experience you'll be in a better position to demand a raise or move on

[hearty island]

i mean i have a conditional offer that's 79K

[gritty rivet]

That's more like it

[hearty island]

on very stringent requirements tho and i don't know if i'll get it

this is definitely the more safe route

[gritty rivet]

Good to have a backup

[hearty island]

possibly two

[hearty island]

i have another conditional offer that's 61K

[hearty island]

i mean i think it was a business analyst 1 role with like no technical skills

[dusty moon]

Yesterday, I attended a Tech meetup. Would it be considered abrasive to directly ask for a referral to a frontend position at a company, or should I attend the meetup a few more times before making such a request?

[hearty island]

people i would consider for a referral are people that i'd talk to frequently

[dusty moon]

I thought as much.

[fringe sphinx]

Hey, always be closing. Ask for the referral. It might just be throwing your name on managers desk, but go for it.

[dusty moon]

Are Tech meetups worth attending then? Should I go again?

[fringe sphinx]

Referrals come in all sorts of different levels.. like: personal references vs "throwing your resume on a pile".

[hearty island]

i think they're good to go to

[fringe sphinx]

^ Networking is the single most important thing you can do to level up, besides just being good at your job.

[brazen island]

Honestly, the first contract I signed (for a job I never did) was gotten by just doing a tech track that an ML consultancy did. The guy that gave the session dm'd me after a couple of sessions on LinkedIn and that cut the hiring process by several rounds

These things are the easiest places to find a job. Job fairs, events, the bar after talks, ...

[dusty moon]

@brazen island What happened, why didnt you accept?

[brazen island]

I signed a contract in January for a job I'd only start in September. I just signed it to have a valid plan C and I looked for other things in the meantime and cancelled it when I landed something more interesting

I think it was April or May latest when I notified them I wasn't coming so they had ample time to find someone else

[indigo axle]

Hello how can i teach python

I mean how should i approach it? I have experience tutoring maths and science but that is in person. I can teach python in person too, but curious to know if there's any way it could work online on like a global scale where i can also interact with students from different backgrounds

[deft herald]

There are some tutoring programs that are online. I've done a couple before but man i can't remember what they're called

[indigo axle]

Ah i see. Think i can just google tutoring programs

[deft herald]

TutorDoctor was one i did years back. That was in person though

[indigo axle]

Okay appreciate your response

[hearty island]

sigh what do i do about this? i want to be able to knock out the prereqs, so should i do it at a community college? OMSA doesn't fuck around

[vapid jay]

can anyone tell me about how to use codeforces as a beginner? and how the ranking and system works?

[mystic violet]

Anyone here work in AI/Data science?

[hearty island]

there are quite a few, what's the question?

[mystic violet]

nvm

[deft herald]

😒

[hearty island]

[serene meteor]

I'm a mechanical engineer who is now trying to change the field towards IT

Self learning python and trying to get into AI or data science and ML

I could use some help of good network of like minded people as well

[dusty moon]

I had a similar experience.

[gritty rivet]

#pedagogy

[worldly gyro]

Yo guys
Anyone has like really reliable python roadmap? Any certifications that can help on the market?
Ive seen a lot of roadmaps, not sure which one is reliable, and its hard to find what exact skill confirmations like certificates are worth it

ps. later wanna focus on ML/AI, but its too early to ask for that

[pine sleet]

it is generally not that straight forward

if it were you wouldn't be asking us for one and would instead be following it already

but what you can do is look through some job listings which you want to apply to, and see what kinds of skills they want

[worldly gyro]

Well makes sense, i just thought some of You know some cert. that has a lot market value or street credit

something like CCNA in networking

[pine sleet]

yeah python/SWE in generally doesn't really have certificates that are valuable in the same way networking and cybersec do

[dusty moon]

I heard the Google Data Analytics certification and azure certification is really good!

[worldly gyro]

Thanks!
by the way, for me its insanely hard to pick one road or one field especially at the beggining, even when i narrowed the whole IT into Python, its still has gigantic amount of topics and stuff lol
the plus is its really flexible, i guess i will keep mastering python for now

[pine sleet]

yeah that's a common sentiment i hear a lot. it helps if you just focus on something you find interesting. it will help keep you focused and motivated

[fringe sphinx]

Great! That’s what this server is for. For general learning Python stuff, start in #python-discussion . For ml/ai, #data-science-and-ml

[regal axle]

3rd school just responded. ...

Well ,,, I have 6 more chances. Hopefully one of them comes with good news