career-advice

[spark cobalt]

Of what

[neat nova]

The resources page

[blazing harbor]

I do have to say my dad has gotten a lot more tamer, and a lot nicer

[spark cobalt]

@neat nova Like click the Resources Page link

[neat nova]

Ye

[blazing harbor]

He’s taken a little more of a familial role tbf but I can tell he’s not happy

[vapid jay]

hello, is taking certifications good for getting hired?

[white relic]

Where in the world are you? It matters.

[vapid jay]

thanks a lot 😄

[white relic]

There is no generally useful certificate for software dev less than a bachelor's degree

But I've heard that some countries care more about non degree certs 🤷‍♂️

[spark cobalt]

Most certificates that are considered useful would be for certificates of very specific tools and resources, but they do not define your capabilities/hirability as a software engineer. It is more additional rather than foundational (for example, AWS practitioner or whatever it's called)

[vapid jay]

noted. thank you all

[spark cobalt]

This is in context of the US btw. Most societies where bachelors is common will generally align to this.

[brittle thorn]

Try non profit organizations too that make an impact on communities

Find meaningful work outside the parameters of pay

Or yes do a startup

[sonic star]

I´m worred about English comunication, I mean I can write, but talking is such a big challenge for me

[near ocean]

It comes with practice, might wanna make friends or better yet a relationship 😜

[buoyant seal]

Talk more 😉 I liked online platform Italki. Cheap to find English native speaking people that are paid to talk with you (they call themselves teachers there and sometimes having education to teach)

Just one month helped me to break speaking barriers and to gain confidence in speaking

Lovely to speak with some Canadians. They are having very clear to hear accents. One of them living in some abroad country helped me a lot

[near ocean]

Not the channel for that #python-discussion

[ember canopy]

oh sorry!

[buoyant seal]

People don't make work for you. But we can help with steps u struggle.
Make an effort, 💪 try solving the problem first. Ask for help only in difficult spots

Rule 8 #rules message

[ember canopy]

I am solving it from last 7 days

[sonic star]

I paid a technical course basic to advenced Python programing , and I´m currently doing my pos graduation on TI Sistems

[ember canopy]

Anyways thank you!

[buoyant seal]

Then show your current results when asking for help and ask precise question where u struggle. Don't ask to solve entire work for you. Ask to help fixing your current solution. 😉 and say exactly what is the step u struggle with
Otherwise it will be spoon feeding that can harm your learning process

[ember canopy]

Yeah this is a good idea

But this channel is not for this, isn't it?

I am new to discord and so to programming

[buoyant seal]

#1035199133436354600 and #algos-and-data-structs are good enough channels for that

[ember canopy]

okay thanks

[fringe sphinx]

Oh wow, that’s really cool. Didn’t know that was a thing. I worked for a big tech company that had ‘accent’ coaches that would help foreign speakers (engineers primarily) reduce their accents. We had a lot of Chinese and Indian engineers, and the toughest part was when they had to communicate with each other with thick accents.

[nocturne snow]

Generally, is it tough to hit 90k++ EUR in Europe as an IC pre-staff level? I feel like pay is all over the place

[near ocean]

It depends on the country
Places like denmark would make it easier

Europe is an entire continent, it would make little sense to have similar salaries across

[fringe sphinx]

What's the worst place in Europe for SWEs? Always curious.

[near ocean]

Probably russia lol

[crisp stream]

in the EU then

[near ocean]

That would probably be a tie among the balkan countries

[white relic]

IC pre-staff level
these words don't mean anything to me

Oh, independent contractor
(I guess)

[hearty island]

um, my recruiter ghosted me

[near ocean]

Individual contributor? Non manager employee

[hearty island]

he asked for a 9 am interview so i said ok. and now it’s been 12 minutes

i’m pissed

i bet this whole thing is a scam

[white relic]

Missing a meeting happens

[hearty island]

ugh, yeah you’re right. should i call and attempt to reschedule?

[white relic]

It shouldn't when you're supposed to be interviewing but it does occasionally

[hearty island]

it’s 9:15 in my area now

[white relic]

I would ask to reschedule yeah but not until after the scheduled meeting is over

[hearty island]

well it never happened so, unless he calls now

[white relic]

As far as that guy's Outlook calendar is aware, it's still happening

[hearty island]

i’m gonna call around 9:30, it was just supposed to be a phone screen anyways

this happened once with carmax too, the guy called super late

or should i just call him now 🤔

[white relic]

Personally I would wait until at least 10:00

[hearty island]

ty i couldn’t make up my mind

[near ocean]

Why not call now, could still make the call

If you want to put up with them being late ofcourse

[white relic]

If the other person was supposed to be calling you and they didn't, it's like a little aggressive to call them out on it before the scheduled time is even over

[delicate bane]

inb4 recruiter is on pacific time

[hearty island]

no no i clarified 9 am EST

[delicate bane]

thats good.

[white relic]

It's currently 9:20 a.m. EDT not EST

[hearty island]

yes that 😭

eastern daylight time

[fringe sphinx]

It happens. Esp 9am on a monday. I've been that guy (not proud of it, just saying).

[hearty island]

nah i totally get it, i’ll give him a call at 10

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, I'd call him, at 15 minutes, that's reasonable. Sometimes they can't find your phone number/etc.

[hearty island]

hmmmmmm

[kindred juniper]

.

[white relic]

I mention it not just to be pedantic, but because if the guy is using an automated system that reads his emails and add stuff to his calendar, it might have read EST and scheduled a meeting for 40 minutes from now if that was in the actual email.

[hearty island]

i just don’t wanna look desperate or pushy

[fringe sphinx]

It's totally reasonable to call. Or email with your phone number. It would be weird to wait to 10am, imo.

[hearty island]

ok then i’ll give him a ring, see if he picks up

thanks everyone

[delicate bane]

gl

[hearty island]

yeah, straight to voicemail

just my luck haha

anyways, we move on

maybe he just didn’t show up today or something

[white relic]

Idk why it would be weird to wait. I know if I'm late to the office on Monday morning and missed a conference call, I'm not going to offer to reschedule it before tomorrow anyway so it doesn't matter whether they respond at 9:30 or not until noon. Tbh I'd rather have the chance to see my calendar and shoot off a quick apology first 🤷‍♂️

[hearty island]

at least my background check for my new internship is complete! going to get on my apps grind again

[buoyant seal]

Yeah, Balkan countries in which I am in having pretty much Russian level of salaries so far

[buoyant seal]

Pre staff, u mean without management responsibilities?

[white relic]

a company I used to work for had levels like "associate : engineer : principal engineer : senior principal engineer : staff engineer : senior staff engineer"

it always seemed backwards to me that staff engineer was higher than principal engineer

[near ocean]

What does staff engineer even mean, generally

[deft herald]

It's typically just a rank

[crisp stream]

https://staffeng.com/ 👍🏼

[deft herald]

My company is engineer -> sr. engineer -> staff engineer -> sr. staff -> principal

[near ocean]

So its an IC role?

[deft herald]

We don't really have the concept of IC

There are wordy definitions though for each role under each of our "5 core competencies" 🤮

Here's "Analytical Skills" for Staff engineer

Consistently guides individuals to gather, integrate, and interpret multisource information to identify fundamental trends and conduct complex analyses. Regularly guides others to analyze multisource data to determine root causes, develop thorough recommendations, and effectively solve highly complex problems with ambiguous requirements; verifies accuracy of data.

[buoyant seal]

I feel like i will be able to score this salary in Europe... at somewhere like 6th year of my work, eventually 🤔
If i will continue working like i do it now. / and will be able to solve some... legal obstacles in the way i planned.
I grow slowly into seniority of a valuable enough job role to reach it eventually, hopefully.
But not today 😅

And yeah i go with Invidual contributor path
P.S. funny info, working from Balkans but remotely for other europe country

[buoyant seal]

TLDR: with just a matter of necessary digillence, sufficient skills, education and years of work, i don't see a problem to make it possible within reasonable human time lines
Some people probably manage to do it in far earlier years than i plan to reach

[delicate bane]

yeah usually

at least from listening to podcasts, this is how it is.

[marsh wind]

also depends if we talk just fix salary or all total package

based on what I see here (France) if you take fixed salary + variable + bonus it ain't that bad to hit that specific mark of 90k. Then, of couse there will be hefty income tax 😂

[delicate bane]

peeps always forget about taxes

[buoyant seal]

😛 Gross value i said in my estimation. Taxes aren't included. (I mean, they will be paid out of this gross value)

[marsh wind]

I didn't see anyone mention gross, hence a remark just in case

[buoyant seal]

as immigrant working in international company, it is far easier to keep stuff in gross.
Everyone pays taxes for themselves and willing to choose whatever country/taxes he/she wishes to live and pay.
With company everything remains fair and unchanged.

Hehe... Taxes are yearly subscription for specific country services in my eyes at this point

[near ocean]

So really what's the difference between staff and senior

Its it just a feelgood title

[marsh wind]

I think over years senior became much more accessible (ie people start getting those titles after like 3-5 years) so more titles needed

[white relic]

🧓 senior
🪄 staff
🧙‍♂️ senior staff

[deft herald]

Ok that's perfect

[near ocean]

So it's a case of shrinkflation

[light sequoia]

Guys as a react developer what else do I need to learn to complete my front end skill to land a job

[buoyant seal]

https://roadmap.sh/frontend 🙂
It would be great if u also gave reading to Code Complete by McConnel (Great book just to learn first stuff about how to write cleaner code, how to name variables and functions, what to aim for during coding in terms of quality, how to debug in a more scientific way, how to write code from beginners approach to better ones, to become aware about existing tooling, how to even interact with managers and etc)
And read Unit testing best principles and practices by Khorikov and learned how to use stuff like Jest (or Vitest). TDD by Kent Beck can be read too for more practical head on approach
and learned using Typescript and became profficient in its mental gymnastics to type all code without usage of Any
and besides that just learned other ecosystem around

Who knows, may be even learned object oriented programming and code architecture, in terms of learning how to organize your code in order to make it more unit testable.
Clean Architecture by robert martin is great book to give perpsectives about that. The trick is using in just the right measure of all this stuff in the right way to make it more unit testable and better organized.

And of course, if u are struggling with concept of Refactoring (seeking code smells and improving code to cleaner state), there is book from Martin fowler about that. Refactoring shines the best if u learned unit testing and static typing (typescript or whatever)

[buoyant seal]

And of course as any software developer u will benefit from learning how to gather requirements and plan projects. Then u will be able to go into a right direction of development from shorter amount of attempts 😅

• System Design and Analysis by alan dennis for brief introduction into whole view about Software Development Lifecycle
• and Software requirements by Wiegers can help moving into this direction

otherwise, a lot of tech fluff around to go through is mentioned here https://roadmap.sh/frontend as i mentioned before

[slender steeple]

what should i do guys?

[light sequoia]

Tnx

[slender steeple]

after my 12th exam

[white relic]

go to chili's and have some celebratory ribs

[deft herald]

Gotta love microwaved ribs

[fringe sphinx]

My usual suggestion is: pick something you know nothing about and learn a bit about it. Ever done a cloud deployment by yourself? Try that. Ever written a backend service? Try Flask/Python. Have you checked out new web techs or different ones other than React? How about HTMX?

[white relic]

Honestly yeah chili's is mediocre

[fringe sphinx]

Or McRibs? Never tried but I want

Also, my hobby is bbq / smoking (see my username). Anyone want a tutorial in ribs, I gotcha.

[delicate bane]

basically. heres some more nuance if you care for bigger companies https://staffeng.com/guides/staff-archetypes/

[near ocean]

Hm interesting

[brazen island]

I'm in western Europe and € 90k + gross is very hard to reach I think

Maybe in the Norway, Switzerland, and UK (London specifically) but the higher salary is really offset hard by the increased cost of living.

[errant jacinth]

So, I've been thinking - should a job provide a work laptop for you, if they wish to install their own software?

[near ocean]

Yes

[errant jacinth]

Just finished reading about this one Reddit thread about this dude that was paranoid about spyware on his machine and wouldn't even SSH into his remote station, and therefore got fired for it
I'd be mildly paranoid too, but... dunno

[harsh river]

yes

[near ocean]

They better have a sign on bonus if they're not giving you company gear
Especially if they want to force certain policies on you, like remote wipe, etc

[deft herald]

Absolutely. It's not worth the liability if they don't TBH

[errant jacinth]

How do I even begin to negotiate this, if they don't wish to?

Just scheduled another interview with this relatively company who I don't believe will provide me with one

[deft herald]

Do you have an offer yet?

[errant jacinth]

I'm feeling very inclined to take the job as it's a great entry level with great pay, but...
Spyware do be kinda concerning

[deft herald]

Seems like a strange thing to be discussing during the interview stage

[near ocean]

Ask them if they have an equipment budget, also ask them for recommendations/certain requirements they might have
(and also who to invoice)

[errant jacinth]

Relatively small*

[errant jacinth]

We did talk about salary expectations and such, but nothing set on stone

So I'd say that I don't 100%? It's not guaranteed I'll take it

[delicate bane]

i would wait until you have an actual offer before these concerns tbh but thats me

[errant jacinth]

I'm probably jumping way ahead of myself

[near ocean]

Yes

[errant jacinth]

But I'm kinda concerned to let the opportunity to talk about it pass and have to awkwardly ask for it later, so yeah

[delicate bane]

it wont be awkward. you can ask once you get an offer letter.

[near ocean]

Dont worry, when you get an offer you'll have plenty of opportunity to talk about it many more things

[errant jacinth]

Oki then, I'll trust you guys
Ty ty

[deft herald]

How did the topic of company issue equipment even come up?

[vapid jay]

I'm in the europen mexico also known as Italy
I am considered lucky to have 1400 gross monthly

Then thanks to someone, the shithole that my city is, has become a tourist and University place and so the cost of living has skyrocket

[brazen island]

Do you have a degree? Do you work fulltime in something CS(-adjacent)? 1400 gross sounds very very rough.

[near ocean]

Mediterranean countries aren't the play when it comes to big paychecks

[brazen island]

Small tangent, I was in Cagliari over the summer and I was shocked how little difference there was in the supermarket compared to Belgium, especially considering there is a noticeable difference in the salaries.

[errant jacinth]

The doubt popped up after I finished reading this Reddit thread

[modern ore]

Go to canada, best tech country with free healthcare benefits! 🔥

[errant jacinth]

And seemed like a good thing to take into consideration

[deft herald]

Yeah, don't worry about it until you get an offer. For now, just assume they will provide you with whatever equipment you need to perform your job

[vapid jay]

Network administrator+ random stuff (websites, programs, graphics and co), I work at a small company. No I don't have a bachelor degree

But consider that even if you have one, you'll be hired under "tirocinio" (dunno the translation) contract, which basically you're paid 500€ monthly, without the employee having to give taxes about pension, or you need to work illegally

A few years ago we had a citizen income of about 500€ usually, but was removed due to business/lobby pressure, because they couldn't get slaves anymore

Then if you work legally the gov will eat 50 and more of your income + random legislations + lots of regulatory capture that will make you unable to work

[vapid jay]

why is python in high demand?

[white relic]

You can look at it like having a car as a commuter. (if you live in the US) the company isn't going to buy you a car but they have to pay you enough to afford payments and maintenance otherwise the job is a net loss to you.
So just take that $1500 or whatever you think it will cost to get the necessary equipment and subtract it from your first year's salary when you're negotiating. If you can't afford it out of pocket, you can ask for a sign on bonus and if they don't give it to you, well, you can't afford to take the job (and you can tell them that). Getting a new rig for telecommuting is not unlike relocation for regular commuting except waaay cheaper.
Your existing PC doesn't enter into it at all

[white relic]

Is it?

[vapid jay]

yea its so popular its also the number one right now

[white relic]

Number one in what exactly and according to whom?

If you want to know why Python is the top of some metric it matters what metric you care about

[deft herald]

That python...he's so hot right now

[near ocean]

Its the second most popular language according to jetbrains dev survey and stackoverflow survey, thats a metric

[deft herald]

so it's #2 then 😄

[white relic]

That doesn't necessarily correlate to high demand tbh

[gritty rivet]

In a word, because it's easy.

A lot of simple tasks can be done very quickly compared to other languages (in terms of development time, not necessarily compute time)

[fringe sphinx]

It's just not clear what you're really asking. Are you wondering whether Python is a better language to learn than other languages? Is it a good education choice to invest your time in? Are you wondering why and how corporations use Python? Whether it's used more than other languages? etc.

[modern ore]

Do companies really hire "python developer" in masses?

[gritty rivet]

Mine does. We're relatively small but pretty much all engineers use Python, the majority of us more or less exclusively

[modern ore]

Like they directly look for specialized python developers to hire?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes. It's probably the only thing I care about: if I'm hiring for a Python project, I want someone who most recently worked in Python. I don't want to have to waste months getting them up to speed on a new language. However: once they're hired, they might work on projects in other languages. I've had multiple people work in Java, C++, C# and Javascript over the course of a few years

[gritty rivet]

As opposed to "just developers, we don't care if you know Python or not"? Then yes. Some roles require JS but we've not really hired for that recently

[vapid jay]

yea im wondering why and how corporationgs use python

[gritty rivet]

I mentioned why... One big part of the how is Django and other backend frameworks. Maybe even more important are the data analysis and machine learning libraries

Which I guess is also why

[vapid jay]

ohhh that makes sense

since AI/machine learning is made with python like chatgpt

[buoyant seal]

When they meet criteria being allowed to work with another language X?

[fast cradle]

I am located in the UK and I have applied to many companies and haven't gotten a single call back. I assume there must be something wrong with my cv. Can I get feedback on my cv. Thanks

[fringe sphinx]

ime, the main point is: when they start working in a different language, they've already got their feet on the ground and they usually can start small. I don't want a new hire to know neither our company or language or processes. But, for a second project? No worries.

[fringe sphinx]

Python is used widely in data analysis and data science in many companies. It's used for automating processes. It's used for application backends: it's quick to build a dashboard or utility or internal service. All sorts of different uses. It's often used with other languages: many of the popular Python libraries are implemented in C/C++. As an example, Netflix makes great use of Python: https://netflixtechblog.com/python-at-netflix-bba45dae649e.

[hardy sky]

[hybrid grail]

guys

[vapid jay]

Can i use python to do shipping?

[blazing harbor]

no gpa for college?

[fringe sphinx]

Taking a quick look: 1. Is it clear where you are physically located right now, and your employment/visa status? In US, first question would be whether you need sponsorship/etc. 2. I do not know if this is an issue, but some people anglicize their names to avoid bias... a good friend of mine goes by "Mo" instead of "Muhammed". This may be a sensitive topic, so just think about it, I don't want to make a big deal of it. 3. Your internship says nothing about a programming language. Try to emphasize the programming language, and maybe drop the part about the old process (just drop Photoshop... people see that and it might minimize your accomplishments). 4. Your Profile reads slightly awkwardly: it's not bad, but you could tighten it up... drop words like "Fresh" and "foundational experience", and "Being extremely passionate" seems out of place... maybe; "I am passionate...".

[fringe sphinx]

Also, are you working on any side projects or hobbies right now? If you're passionate, why isn't there anythign between May 2023 and today? ... oh, I didn't look closely at dates. nm this one

[blazing harbor]

Also, I think the profile description needs a lot of work. It could reflect poorly on their communication skills

[fast cradle]

college as in university?

[blazing harbor]

yeah

[fringe sphinx]

In US, college/university means same thing, so we often get confused about this with UK folks.

[fast cradle]

I wrote my degree classification that I was awarded. I dont know my gpa

[fast cradle]

I wrote about my current project I'm developing, however it's taking long as I also have to learn the technology

[fast cradle]

how should I structure my profile description? My communication skills are a bit weak

also, are the amount of projects sufficient or I've added more than required? What about the points for the projects? should I elaborate more or are the points fine?

[spark cobalt]

A lot of scripting things that aren't performance sensitive (for example: test development, data analysis, many automation tasks), for ML/AI a huge reason is ecosystem and ease of use (ML/AI engineers can solely focus on building models without running into complex coding/architectural/design problems that appear more often in other places, like Java. Economic-wise, this allows employers to hire people to do ML engineer work without requiring deep SWE knowledge which is harder to come by and possibly more expensive to hire.)

[blazing harbor]

I'm a 202_ (insert major) graduate interested in Software Development. I have 3 years in Software development, building [..]. I'm excited by conversations in ____

[fast cradle]

actually sounds clean, thanks for your guidance

[spark cobalt]

You should elaborate on the complexities of your project not the tools used. The tools used is elementary, how you use these tools will separate you from your competition.

[fast cradle]

can you give me a small example

[blazing harbor]

your experience is a little on the lower side, so I suggest you do few of these three things 1) go for career recruiting events 2) create more projects or go to hackathons or become involved with open source (maybe google https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/) 3) do a 1 year masters degree and focus on getting research + industry experience

[spark cobalt]

Right now, one of my side projects is an FPS, where the foundation of the movement is flying.

I'd show off my skills much better by showing off the complexities of building an FPS, rather than listing some technologies used with no further information.

Compare (can be worded much better):

• built a physics engine and game engine from scratch to service a first person 3D multiplayer shooter game where the movement of the players revolve around the flight of birds
• I used C# and Unreal Engine (example, not using these technologies) to build a game

All you did was say "I built a website, and I used this technology".

[blazing harbor]

I still think they need a little more experience b4 getting a solid first job

a little professional development could go a long way tbf

[spark cobalt]

Non college students are generally not applicable for internships/most programs. The next thing is to get a job

[fast cradle]

I do have more projects but they are very simple and I don't think they are worth showing in my cv.

[spark cobalt]

I think you know, but the days of breadth is over (perfectly fine to do as a beginner, but not realistic for when you're seeking professional employment), now it's quality over quantity

[fast cradle]

sounds better than how I did, I'll try to restructure my point

I am also learning to be aws certified, do you think it would benefit me as I barely have any experience?

[blazing harbor]

certifications aren't that useful (I have an aws big data cert). I would say experience is way better

also there is no shame in the game of using connections to land your first job

[spark cobalt]

It'd help for jobs that require some knowledge on AWS, however it is not foundational to your skills as a SWE.

[spark cobalt]

He is graduated. He should not be looking for internships.

[blazing harbor]

oops I meant job

[spark cobalt]

All jobs say they want experience, but to get experience, I need to get a job first!

[fast cradle]

my problem rn

[blazing harbor]

use connections to get your first job

[spark cobalt]

Not everyone is you. Connections is not the standard route especially for entry level

[blazing harbor]

I mean he's not having much luck right now, and reaching out to a few alumni from his university for recs or help couldn't hurt tbf

[spark cobalt]

That is more networking than personal connections

[blazing harbor]

I mean I guess so, but also maybe reaching out to friends or family members

[spark cobalt]

Sure

I'm moreso just saying "use connections to get your first job" is overstating most college students connections

I don't think it needs to be said, but you're very fortunate for the situation you're in. But it is extremely far from average experience. You're extremely extremely privileged

[blazing harbor]

I hate using the word privileged to describe someone. Everyone is privileged in their own respect. Privilege exists in many forms: white privilege, straight privilege, first world country privilege, etc

To say someone is "privileged" is to say basically nothing of importance. You gain no information entropy with that statement: it's useless

[spark cobalt]

You are very fortunate.

[fringe sphinx]

I know this isn't helpful right now but: Invest in your communication skills. They will be most important to landing a job and success. @buoyant seal mentioned a service that helps (I think): #career-advice message

[spark cobalt]

I'd like to think very few CS students can say they come from a top 1% household with their entire family working in tech. But I may be wrong.

Maybe you're not privileged, and other people just have a skill issue.

[blazing harbor]

Yes, that's a good way of wording it

I'm fortunate in some ways and not so fortunate in others ofc

[spark cobalt]

It is a privilege nonetheless. Rich privilege exists.

[blazing harbor]

Ah, that's what the way it turned out 🤷‍♂️

[blazing harbor]

well, considering I'm about to be $160k in debt 😂 I don't think I have rich privilege lol

[spark cobalt]

...

I hope you're joking lmfao...

[blazing harbor]

I hope you are joking

[modern ore]

Damn, netflix really payin new grads 220k base for swe 💀

[spark cobalt]

Maybe growing up in a top 1% household is the same as growing up in bottom 99% household. I could be wrong hahahaha!

[spark cobalt]

When Netflix offer

[blazing harbor]

I mean you could say growing up as non white is not the same as growing up as a white person. I could be wrong tho haha

[spark cobalt]

Are you still targeting quant?

[modern ore]

Never, they only hiring ppl from colorstack for new grad and intern 🤔

[spark cobalt]

I can assure you that you are more advantaged than the average white guy who's Joe schmoe living in farmland.

[modern ore]

Yeah, but I am resume rejected by almost all lol cuz of school gap 🤷‍♀️

[spark cobalt]

Ahh rip

[blazing harbor]

and you can say that with what certainty? One who doesn't recognize the extent of white privilege needs to go back to school...

[spark cobalt]

700k household vs 60k household. 700k household isn't privileged, the 60k white household is.

[blazing harbor]

so we can bottle down privilege into income disparities? are you familiar with micro racism

[spark cobalt]

Income is a form of privilege. I don't know why you seem to always deflect it

[blazing harbor]

so are so many other types of privileges but you don't see me going around telling white people they are priviliged

[spark cobalt]

You are going around telling people to use connections to get their first job, when having such connections is a privilege to begin with for a new grad

[blazing harbor]

it's privileged to submit an job application and have a white sounding name, so a racist HR doesn't automatically reject you.

[spark cobalt]

Me when Asians are massively overrepresented in STEM either way

[blazing harbor]

😭 guy doesn't think asians face discrimination on a daily basis

[spark cobalt]

I never said that. I'm Asian after all

[blazing harbor]

do you think my last name "Mohamed" would throw some recruiters off

[deft herald]

definitly not

[blazing harbor]

and why do you think so?

[spark cobalt]

Tech is like by far one of the most inclusive industries in America lmfao. I assure you most people do not care

[blazing harbor]

https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/racial-bias-hiring#:~:text=In addition%2C race greatly affects,whites with lower-quality resumes.

[blazing harbor]

it's statements like these that don't help us progress. "oh well tech is inclusive enough"

[spark cobalt]

I never said that. Nothing progresses when you put words in other people's mouth.

[deft herald]

These are mohammeds at my work

[spark cobalt]

My workplace has a very small minority being white. Like 10% or so.

Out of engineers, make that like 3%

[blazing harbor]

Racial Bias is proven to have an impact on your ability to be hired and that's a fact

[fringe sphinx]

A lot of folks will shorten their first name. I can't scientifically say this, but having a short-nickname may avoid some bias. Mo, or Ash (instead of Ashutosh) are common nicknames I see.

[spark cobalt]

So is having an entire family working in tech and growing up in a top 1% household and that's a fact

[blazing harbor]

Yeah that's fair. I never denied that, but it's funny you only mention that

[spark cobalt]

It's funny how you only mention race!

[blazing harbor]

You don't mention how I had to find my place as bisexual asian man in the tech atmosphere

[true harness]

<@&831776746206265384>

[fringe sphinx]

I feel like this conversation is getting a little heated. Maybe I"m reading this wrong, but could we take a break?

[leaden jasper]

We're definitely going to chill out a bit. There's a way to have this discussion respectfully and so far it's not really been that.

[blazing harbor]

That sounds fair

[leaden jasper]

There's different types of privileges and also challenges in life. I don't think we need to try to rack and stack them to see which is worse.

[blazing harbor]

I guess this isn't be a conversation to be had online. But to summarize, I just think privilege exists in many forms (white privilege, straight privilege, etc), and we don't seem to recognize the privileges we have. We try to put one privilege over the other, but that's counter productive. I don't think you should ever label someone as privileged

[modern ore]

What has been hard about being a bisexual asian man, I am curious.

[spark cobalt]

As a femboy and bisexual myself, tech is very very extremely inclusive

Dressing in feminine clothing is so cute :3

[leaden jasper]

Let's not make broad statements like that. If that's your experience that's great, but it may not be everyone's experience.

[blazing harbor]

There is still a lot of work to be done in tech to make it more inclusive 🙏

[spark cobalt]

@blazing harbor Do you mind sharing your experience in how you being bisexual hurt your career?

[blazing harbor]

This is a loaded question

[modern ore]

I can see why being asian male in this space its harder as a junior/intern/newgrad, I dont know how bisexual plays into this

[blazing harbor]

that's like asking someone: Do you mind sharing your experience in how being a racial minority hurt your career?

[modern ore]

You can absolutely answer this, it comes with discrimination/racism, etc

[blazing harbor]

There is straight privilege and that's undeniable

[modern ore]

Whats straight privilage look like vs being bisexual privilage

[blazing harbor]

there's a class on this you can take

[modern ore]

Gender Studies?

[blazing harbor]

You can start with this: https://queer.ucmerced.edu/sites/queer.ucmerced.edu/files/page/documents/queer_ally_homework.pdf

[modern ore]

Can you summarize this? How being bisexual hurts you in tech vs being straight

[leaden jasper]

@modern ore we're backing from this conversation and that extremely personal question.

[gritty rivet]

I'd say that unless someone is asking for input on dealing with a specific issue at work this needs to move to an off-topic channel

[modern ore]

He linked a pdf, I want him to summarize it since I didnt read it 🤔

[leaden jasper]

If I haven't made myself clear, we're moving on to a different subject because y'all are struggling to discuss this appropriately and maturely.

[modern ore]

Which part was immature? lol

[true harness]

to be fair, connections aren't the most common way for a junior to find a job. networking events are a decent recommendation, though

[blazing harbor]

I probably should have mentioned it more as a combination of both

[spark cobalt]

Yes

[true harness]

both what?

[blazing harbor]

both connections and networking

[spark cobalt]

Connections are not a standard recommendation because most new grads don't have them

[true harness]

networking builds connections . what do you consider the distinction between them?

[blazing harbor]

I do think that a blanketed statement of me being privileged was unwarranted

[spark cobalt]

I think for a new grad the major distinction is personal connections and network connections

[blazing harbor]

I will move from this topic though

[peak halo]

@blazing harbor @spark cobalt We are moving on from this--anyone who continues that thread will be muted.

[spark cobalt]

Yes I haven't engaged

[true harness]

err. does that include the talking about networking

[peak halo]

you can talk about networking

[spark cobalt]

Anyone looking for a job should be actively networking as well

[true harness]

they do have their internship. they should have some connections there that might be able to help

[modern ore]

Its hard to network when your community, and other connection dont have coorpo jobs, aswell as your school, and etc. But you can argue with online with random people

[gritty rivet]

Regulars here will all have seen this, but it's got a lot of good tips on networking for people new to the industry: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-software-engineers/

[spark cobalt]

@fast cradle

[spark cobalt]

Yeah, it takes a lot of initiative which not a lot of people have.

[fast cradle]

Thanks guys! I'll look into all the resources.

[fringe sphinx]

There's a few ways. Look for conferences and meetups. Join clubs at school. Get involved in an open source project. etc. It takes concerted effort and is usually hard to do at first, but if you prioritize it, you'll go far!

sorry paywalled... https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-pay-guidelines-salary-hiring-bonus-stock-levels-2023-10

[tribal river]

Hello, How can I improve my professional career? Please give me some advices.

[white relic]

What kind of career do you have?

[gritty rivet]

Feel free to share redacted images of your resume/CV if you'd like feedback.

[tribal river]

Thanks for response. I am a software engineer.

[tribal river]

Sure.

[white relic]

Where in the world are you? You don't have to be specific but like general region

[tribal river]

I am in United States.

[white relic]

The first thing that I notice is there's a lot of whitespace tbh

This is a 1 page resume needlessly stretched over 2

There are a lot of bullet points talking about the technologies you used. But not much about the roles you assumed or the impact you had

• Implemented Spring MVC Dependency Injection and Aspect Oriented Programming

This kind of thing isn't really the level of detail you want in a résumé. It's too vague to be interesting to a technical reader and too technical to be meaningful to a recruiter

[true harness]

something you may want to focus on is adding the impact your actions. "i did this thing which caused our company to gain 100 million dollars in revenue" "Implemented fast aeronautical blah that could do blah causing blah"

[white relic]

I would suggest trying to pare down experience to 3-5 bullet points per role and focus on impact and demonstrated skills: not just what you used but what did you create with it.

• Used JDBC for database connectivity and also to invoke stored procedures written in Oracle
  It doesn't tell me what you really did. Like did your work reduce user entry errors with better validation or was it a faster alternative API to what already existed or what

[ionic arrow]

Hi
'Re some hiring channels here on server?
Thanks

[white relic]

• Resolved 300+ critical bugs in the product

That one's nice

[true harness]

quite incredible, really. how were there so many critical errors 😬

[white relic]

All the technologies you used like Spring and JDBC etc. can be itemized in the skills section so they are still there

[modern ore]

@true harness did you get a offer for summer or offseason yet?

[true harness]

let me cook

[white relic]

#career-advice message feedback starts here, forgot to reply so you didn't get a ping

[true harness]

something that i noticed when trying to improve my own resume was that there are a lot of bullets along the lines of "Used x for [normal use cases of x]". like, "used docker to containerize applications". in your case it's "Used JDBC to do database things" (among others). you could consider extracting the techs mentioned in these sorts of bullets into a short comma separated list near the header. imo, adding the extra fluff in a bullet doesn't do anything and just takes up space @tribal river

[white relic]

@Herb are you hoping to find another job similar to what you had? (Looks like you've been out of work for a few months.) Or do you want to make a more significant change?

[tribal river]

Thanks for your kind advices.

I was just away from the computer for a few minutes, handling some small things. Sorry.

[tribal river]

Yes, I do.

[tribal river]

Yeah, that is meaningful.

[fringe sphinx]

Just some first impressions (and I'm being intentionally critical / devils advocate, so dont take it the wrong way): The positive here is that you have a solid SWE background. What's missing is anything outside of work that signals: "I love technology" or "I'm interested in learning new stuff" or "I can work on anything, even if it's not exactly what I'm doing". This is reminiscent of the many banking SWE resumes I see: people who've worked for a long time in a single role / single product with little perspective on the industry. Strong technical skills, but I worry about motivation.

[fringe sphinx]

I'm not sure what you can do to complement this, but adding some side projects or anything that shows your passion or interest for what you do would go a long way.

[tribal river]

Thanks for your kind and prefessional advice.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, with your LOE, perhaps add something about mentoring or leading: it's a key part of why people look for senior engineers/etc.

[tribal river]

Oh, make sense.

[fringe sphinx]

(imo) You want to make three points: You're a really good programmer. You're a really good problem solver (had to deal with complex system-level issues). And, you can mentor/lead the juniors.

[opaque pulsar]

hi im looking for a doable project idea for a beginner. my school has an internship partnership with google for first year students and i want to have a project on my resume. my knowledge is only the intro class to CS which my school does in python so right now i'm on while loops and defining functions. i can't do anything too advanced. i wana get it done by december.

[gritty rivet]

!kindling

You're at the point already that you could try building a text-based game. That alone might not get you hired but it's a useful start

Another logical step after that might be a REST API that does CRUD with a database like Postgres.

The above is all I had on my resume when I got hired but Google may expect a lot more, I don't know.

Check this kindling list for lots more ideas. Consider leverage your personal interests, whatever they may be (as long as they're not wildly NSFW!). Being inherently interested in what you're building leads to better results

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[gritty rivet]

Also try to contribute to existing opensource projects. It might be easier then you think. https://github.com/MunGell/awesome-for-beginners#python

[opaque pulsar]

ty ill look into those

[vapid jay]

to be a freelance python programmer what would be the most profitable, area? of programming

for example AI, discord bots, websites, etc. which is the most profitable / most in demand

[gritty rivet]

You can look around in platforms like Upwork and Fiverr and see for yourself.

Unless you're in a low wage country looking to make $3/hour and/or have lots of professional experience, your chance of success is near zero

All kinds of work is put out to freelancers just like with real jobs, except that shady webscraping jobs are disproportionately freelance

[vapid jay]

can I ask what your profile picture is? I even reverse imaged searched it and found nothing on it

[buoyant seal]

https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro

[vapid jay]

yeah I've seen many say fiverr is just a race to the bottom unless you're in an poorer country but I have seen people charge up to 800usd for discord bots, although for their skills and experience they could probably get much more with an actual job in a first world country

tldr I'm facing the reality that I need to get a job

[gritty rivet]

WTF, that's my face, don't dox me

[vapid jay]

is it actually

am I being dumb asf rn😭

[gritty rivet]

To bring things back on topic, yes... If you have no job and no degree right now, it's generally most realistic to get any job you can and from there work on a degree. It's not impossible but definitely very tough to work as an SWE with no degree

[fast cradle]

is it nice to add hobbies in my cv? I have some free space in the end

[gritty rivet]

Generally I think it's better not to, but sometimes maybe it doesn't hurt

[fast cradle]

I just have 2 points.
I recently started playing chess and I enjoy it.
The other one is that I like to read articles about the latest technologies and their achievements.
Is it better to just not include them?

[vapid jay]

I genuinely just hate college and prefer self learning tbh, I wonder if it's possible to get qualifications by paying to do the test / course work without actually going to classes

[true harness]

the one example of a high level chess player I know of in software is Andrew Tang. if you want it to be a positive factor you'll need to be really good I think. but if it's just to fill space and you have nothing better, ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[true harness]

that will need to be something you discuss with your profs. after you're enrolled, I mean

[vapid jay]

tbf chances are the person reading the CV doesn't play chess, I'm just above average and still like to include it

[fast cradle]

time to grind and become better 🙈

[summer roost]

I think it's fine to include hobbies if you're light on relevant skills - anything that can help make a personal connection or convince someone that you might be interesting to talk to can help when your resume is basic. But, I wouldn't list reading articles about tech as a hobby... I think that would come off as pandering

[gritty rivet]

You might consider a shortcut degree like WGU if you're in the US. But part of the reason degrees are valued is precisely because it requires you to be patient and follow through

[true harness]

"avid consumer of technical blogs, specifically your company's!"

[vapid jay]

i don't have the patience tbh

[vapid jay]

Andrew is amazing

[gritty rivet]

Like every other trait it's a skill one can develop through effort

[summer roost]

software development is not a job for the impatient...

[vapid jay]

I usually start a hobby and quit after 2-3 weeks then repeat with something else

it's been about 2 weeks and I'm still loving it and have always found automating stuff facinating. but sitting in class for hours everyday teaching more often than not irrelevant things is tedious

[fast cradle]

Can I get feedback on the points I've written. I've changed them to talk more about the accomplishments this time

[gritty rivet]

I can relate... But if you find a way to persist I'm confident you won't regret it.

Don't assume you know what's relevant and irrelevant at this stage. Assume your profs know more then you do about what's relevant... because they do.

[vapid jay]

it depends

I joined the course 2 months late and have managed to do perfectly fine, doing well on the tests. they're 2 months into a level 3 course and they're still talking about what a VPN is lmao?

[gritty rivet]

If the problem is that the course is just too easy for you, showing up to class is not a huge drain on your time

[vapid jay]

I would've thought the opposite would be true, but I suppose if it's easy I have no excuse

i think self learning or at home learning should be more standardised, or atleast the option to choose

[gritty rivet]

You can make the case for that but employers overwhelmingly disagree

[steel kindle]

I mean there’s still a lot of value in college. I think you need to supplement the at home learning with life experience if you’re not going to go to college.

[gritty rivet]

Good point, just a degree isn't enough either, it's both

[steel kindle]

Yup. For example you definitely need experience working with other people on software problems.

[buoyant seal]

there should be more remote options available. Explore availability of those options even before enrolling

Remote options assume u learn on your own and facing a doom in every half of a year trying to pass same exams. At least that how it was in my origin country

[lofty owl]

I was wondering if websites like upwork are actually good medium to beginner places to try and get real experince in the form of excersizes? Or are they just for people with tons of experince

[gritty rivet]

If you're ok with $3/hour you can give it a try but even then it's still pretty tough to break in and get experience

[lofty owl]

Do you know any other ways other than boot amps and what not? Right now I’m just using a random website to get the basics and get a certificate which is better than nothing Ig

[pine sleet]

The best option is to study CS at a university, if that's at all an option

[white relic]

In addition, do projects. Make your own website/mobile app/chat server/etc. Having a couple substantially complete projects in your résumé is better than any certificate. (But still a hard sell without a BS)

[steel kindle]

don't think this is allowed here

[dark thunder]

someone teach me how to be better at doing leet codes etc...

[smoky quest]

Reading a book about algorithms go a long way.
I would suggest to pick up "introductions to algorithms"

[blazing harbor]

I'd suggest the art of computer programming

[smoky quest]

that escalated quickly

[steel kindle]

Cracking the coding interview is also pretty good imo

[fringe sphinx]

Also depends what you’re struggling with. Certain fundamental concepts you just need to study. Others practice.

[vale hull]

hello

[lofty owl]

Is web scraping worth learning?

[bitter trail]

DSA is democratic socialists of america?

I been on that leetcode joint, wow I hate their editor. I feel like somebody has bodily constrained me.

[hidden bloom]

on my personal website i have reflections / values - shld it start off with values?????????? because in the reflections bit i just go into more detail regarding things that are already on my cv.
like which toggle shld i start with by default?

but with values i show i have fluency and talk about these technologies and this isn't shown on my cv at all

but the reflections bit has more content

cus i go into detail regarding everything in my cv...

[errant jacinth]

This is... new.
I landed yet another interview, and wasn't immediately disregarded before much more qualified candidates.

Well, no wonder since I applied to them, but being actually contemplated by multiple applications just feels really new.
Was not even expecting an answer.

[fringe sphinx]

Lol, my point tho was: OP’s question lacked any information or context. Are they struggling with the basic coding? Simple data structures? Trees? Or, struggling with dynamic programming? There’s no way to answer that question.

[white relic]

This is the second time you've posted this phone number with no context. This is not a channel for whatever you're doing. Please stop.

[analog sun]

Hi, your message has been deleted due to breaking rule 5. This server is not meant to be a place where we "trace numbers". If you do not follow the #rules and #code-of-conduct in the future you may be removed from the server.

[gritty rivet]

Data Structures & Algorithms

Yes LeetCode sucks like that but better get used to it

[errant jacinth]

I have... exactly four hours until a scheduled technical interview for a Jr. Python Developer position for said application
I still match their requirements and I'm confident that I can fulfill their expectations, but there's still that natural fear of just... blanking out, when the dude asks the first question.

It's a timed sprint for implementation questions, and they wish for me to deliver the solutions as quickly as possible

I'll be with the documentations ready on alt-tab

[mint oracle]

Plz share ur interview experience also! Best of luck for ur interview!

[white relic]

Try not to put more pressure on yourself than actually is. Your entire future does not depend on acing this interview. There will be more interviews. Even if you get this job, it's good practice for when you need to get a new job. Think of the interview as practice and an opportunity to learn, about the company as well as about yourself, not just a test of your abilities.

[tribal river]

Sorry.

[harsh river]

Hello, this isn't an ad board.

[fringe sphinx]

You got this... you don't need to be the smartest person they ever met!

[fringe sphinx]

My tips are: try to be verbal. If you're working through something, explain your thought process. Often interviewers will give you hints, or guide you. That's a good thing. It's frustrating when a candidate is completely silent when they're working through a problem: I want to see some interaction, personally.

[weak kindle]

Cp?

[mint oracle]

Competitive Programming!

[last moat]

guys i got admission in distance education university. they are using recorded lectures from 2002. teaching web design and web development in java. they are claiming students will learn enterprise apps development. i think the code in books are outdated as well. what should i do??
look at their video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc2nTMzfCfE&t=8s

i dont think anyone use Java servlets and JSP to build webapp these days. isnt it waste of time to learn all of this?

[white relic]

Is it outdated? Yes. Will you be using this specific technology in your career? Unlikely. Is learning it a waste of time though? Well, that depends on what else you could be doing with your time

I made a m68k based single board computer in university. I haven't coded m68k assembly since. Modern CPUs aren't really anything like the m68k and memory isn't flat. But I still learned a lot doing that project

[mint oracle]

Distance education is shitty

Only One benifiet u have enough time!

[white relic]

You can learn all the modern stuff you need to know from free resources on the internet. You can do that as well as pursuing an outdated course of study at whatever university. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

idk anything about the "Virtual University of Pakistan" specifically

[errant jacinth]

I'll try
Saying this out loud is a very nice for me to rationalize what I'm looking at

[white relic]

someone could get a BSCS using only 1990s technology and have a great foundation for a career today. Or they could know a ton of stuff about all the latest tech but have no fundamentals or transferrable skills. To some extent it's what you do with it

[errant jacinth]

I very often talk to myself to grasp the concept of whatever I'm thinking
It's just... easier, like writing it down

I'm currently doing some warmup exercises

I'll see about noting down some cheat sheets

Would be nice to not waste time figuring out and researching common pattern solutions, as it's a timed thing
They didn't inform their time limit, but I'm placing a twenty min limit so I can situate myself

[velvet fox]

Hey guys

Hey guys
got a fte at a reputed organisation, but i've declined since I no longer wanted to work here. I want to switch to another company. Not getting interview calls, I want to pursue MS in upcoming August. If I do not work this 1 year will that gap affect me?

[peak halo]

@left canopy As stated in our rules, seeking paid opportunities is not allowed on this server. Your message has been removed.

[errant jacinth]

It's time, everything's good to go
Wish me luck

[deft herald]

If that gap is filled by pursuing a MS, then no it shouldn't have a negative impact IMO

[harsh river]

Good luck!

[bitter trail]

more like replace it, it's an insane opportunity.

I can't imagine market leading like freaking facebook or uber and just leaving some aspect of UX fluidity underdeveloped. People b lazy and like a smooth experience.

like how hard would it really be to write some pytests and have a server run those on a submission

[bitter trail]

I'm gapping it, it certainly depends what your gap looks like.

i'll lyk though, I'm starting applications end of month

in my case (startup with a couple friends), I have people who can write me recommendations as putative overseers and wrote as much code as I would've at any job.

I have been advised to not put founder or anything like it on my resume. So maybe be aware of that if you do gap it effectively but stakeholdingly.

the generic idea - e.g. if you are getting an MS to say, accessibilize opportunities beyond the average job you will apply to, you may be considered overqualified.

i.e. pretend you want the job you are applying for to be your holy grail

[white relic]

Being a full time student is not a gap

(it isn't clear to me if that's what we're talking about)

[bitter trail]

I think they just mean gap in employment. Clearly there's some language stuff.

like what, they declined a job from an organization they already worked at? were they the secretary and they got offered FTE?

being a full time student is actually not a job, and I don't think most people would read "employed" as student.

[smoky quest]

Putting founder isn't a problem per say. The problem is putting stuff like founder to hide gaps or things.
It might also depends on your market

[bitter trail]

what experience do you have hiring engineers?

just wondering. I received different advice from some people who are in similar positions as my would-be bosses.

[smoky quest]

Got rated 5/5, "Would be hired again by @smoky quest "

What about you?

[bitter trail]

I've hired two people and with both of them, commitment was a serious concern.

the other two I started the thing with, there was no doubt, cause they were on board at the beginning.

the people who gave me this advice hired 10 or so people each

[smoky quest]

Have you asked them why they were making such recommendation?

[bitter trail]

competing commitments

[smoky quest]

How would a past startup be a competing commitment?

[bitter trail]

are you serious?

[smoky quest]

I am never serious

[bitter trail]

the gravity of this waking life is going to tremor your brain when you conceive the wisdom to behold it

[hidden bloom]

I Have this prompt for an extra curricular outside university:
Activity Planning: plan a half an hour activity for a Year 10 pupil, to help them develop a skill they will need to be successful at university.

the 'skill' i want to teach them is the ability to not boil things down/ understand nuance/ stuff isn't black/white thinking. think outside of binary things. understand that shit is both logical / illogical at the same time, majority of life is inherently contradictory / hypccritical - want to teach them this? like show how everything is interlated / like yes this is academic (maths problem), but also philosophical, etc. how everything intertwines in on itself etc.

what is the name for this 'skill''?? is it called: (thinking critically???)

i feel like that's too vague / to much of an umbrella term tho i'd like a better name for it and i swear there is one i just can'tt think of it.

[ionic bluff]

Hello everyone, I trust this message finds you in good health. I am seeking advice on whether pursuing an online Master's degree in Data Science from Coursera is a prudent choice. Furthermore, do you have any recommendations concerning funding options for pursuing a Master's degree?

[ivory sluice]

you might want to post this in #pedagogy

[smoky quest]

Coursera may have a bad brand since it's associated with moocs.
But as long as the degree is an actual masters which is accredited, that ought to be fine. I would still explore getting the degree directly from these schools though.

In terms of funding, there are side jobs, grants or student loans

[visual walrus]

Hello. A client of mine is a very well established entreupreneur on social media and has a massive audience, but doesn't monitize it. I told him it would be better if he made an online course/academy on the skills he has. This is a Figma design I had in mind. How much would something like this cost, time frame, and what languages are best to use?

Budget is 5-10k

[ionic bluff]

Thank you!

[craggy prairie]

Price would truly depend on what experience you have— do you have more work experience, etc? Timeframe is also really relient on your work ethic, could be a couple weeks, to a couple months. For coding languages, my first thought is always going to be Javascript, HTML, and CSS, but you could also always use something else.

[tender inlet]

guys i have upcoming tests to do for my job application where they are testing my Python and SQL skills. However in the jobn listing they say "Python coding experience, knowledge of SQL and the ability to use statistical modelling techniques are all beneficial but not essential." What are they testing me for?

[visual walrus]

Got it, thanks. Where can I find the best talent to outsource to? Our maximum budget is 10k

[craggy prairie]

Not sure where to find good outsourcing— you could probably look on Linkedin, not sure if they have that type of stuff, for sure; but its worth a shot.

[visual walrus]

I'm thinking of just using Thinkific or Teachable in that case. Thanks for your help.

[gritty rivet]

All we know is what you told us, so I'm not sure what kind of answer you're hoping to find here?

If you're asking how to prepare, I would probably just do some LeetCode practice or whatever, unless you have any better insights into this unnamed company might be asking

[orchid needle]

Hello there, I've got beginner's knowledge about Python and done most of my learning online. I'm sure I know enough to apply for jobs but I'd just like to know a basic hierarchy of concepts I must know in order to pursue a career as a beginner?

[gritty rivet]

There are relevant roadmaps in places like roadmap.sh which are worth a look but overall I'd let the job market be your guide... Look for roles, apply, learn from the process where your critical gaps may be, work on those, rinse and repeat

Network... Find people in your area doing the kind of work you want to do and find out how they got there

[tender inlet]

does leetcode have solutions to their problems?

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, and you can find lots of discussions elsewhere online for the common problems too

[orchid needle]

Thanks @gritty rivet 👌

[hidden bloom]

i have a job that is flexible around my studies.
like its not contractual
its like u work whenever u want to basically.
how do i specifiy this flexible / contractual / part timey but no shifts nature in my cv
like is there a keyword i can use that sums this all up??
i want to be speicific like for my other volunteering role i'll put saturday 11am-1pm cus that's when i do it but for this i can't be specific as it varies?

[true harness]

just say part time, if you're going to say anything at all. you don't need to give specific times for anything

[gritty rivet]

These norms can vary by country but here in the US at least, putting your work schedule on a resume would be weird and unnecessary

[zinc parrot]

leetcode it's good for someone who's trying to be the best he can be at python?

[buoyant seal]

leetcode is only good for interviews at faang 😅

[smoky quest]

It's good to practice DSAs

[buoyant seal]

https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro/
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html
It is far more comprehensive experience to build apps 😊 💪

[gritty rivet]

Any sites like that (also Hacker Rank, Code Wars, etc.) are good for technical interview prep. You're likely to be asked the exact same or similar questions by potential employers in my experience

[zinc parrot]

what is the average income for jobs that requires that kind of interview

[true harness]

it depends on location

[gritty rivet]

You can look up the data for your city/region/country for different job titles.

[zinc parrot]

I know the people in city/regions and they usually have a background and a degree

and a lot of ex-faangs

[gritty rivet]

Yes, of course

If you can manage to get a job without degree or experience you can obviously expect to be on the low end of the range

[zinc parrot]

well, I will have to learn that then

[smoky quest]

a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[zinc parrot]

computer science not software engineering, right?

there is technology information too

[pine sleet]

Not really. Though many CS grade end up in SWE jobs
Doesn't mean CS limits you to SWE jobs, though

[zinc parrot]

from what I know SoftEnf. from a friend, they did teach you things that you can't learn on internet

[true harness]

that's not really the case

[smoky quest]

there might be equipment and stuff you would not have access readily

opportunities as well given only because that teacher is involved in some research project, etc.

[zinc parrot]

I actually away from college because of health issues, but it's a engineering course and we have access to supercomputers, python projects, R (I don't know if CS it's the same)

[summer roost]

A software engineering degree is about as useful for landing software engineer jobs as a computer science degree is, though many more universities offer computer science degrees than software engineering degrees

[white relic]

An increasing number of cs degrees are actually offered by the school of engineering rather than arts & sciences

Or in addition to

[peak acorn]

Hello everyone
I am looking for python expert to work us together.
I am going to deploy python script on ftp server and use as third party api
if you can help me, let me know

[gritty rivet]

It's not clear what you're asking for. If you're trying to hire someone, that's not allowed here. If you need help with something specific you can see #❓｜how-to-get-help .

[vapid jay]

whats the diffrence between software engineering and computer science

[peak halo]

there's the definitions of SWE and CS, and then there's what you would actually do in a SWE or CS program.

By definitions, CS is a branch of mathematics that deals with algorithms and what problems they can solve. And SWE is about software development and best practices for designing and implementing software.

As far as what you'd actually do in a SWE or CS degree program, there will probably be a lot of overlap.

[gritty rivet]

It's better to actually look at the specifics of individual programs. The name alone doesn't always tell you very much.

[peak halo]

My guess is that most employers would treat them equally, unless it's for a position that involves a lot of applied theory (like "data scientist")

[errant jacinth]

Just finished my interview from earlier, nearly nine hours later.

There were three parts to it; soft-skills, language proficiency and the technical interview

I nailed the first two - they really liked me, and the lead developer (a guy from Portugal!) talked to me and I think (hope) he was really satisfied by my answers
He also said that, albeit my pronunciation was a bit sketchy (as I haven't spoken English in a tad bit), it could be easily fixed by spending more time with English speakers

It really went well - until the technical interview.

The challenge wasn't hard by itself; it was fairly standard for what they were asking (data scraping for ML, judging by their website and mission) and something that I could've whipped up even without reference under forty minutes

But you see, their dataset was massive.
And by massive, I really mean it.

[sonic ermine]

Hey I have a pretty generic question about python not in any catagories I can think of where should I ask it?

[errant jacinth]

So much that the laptop that I borrowed from university(since my personal one broke) could BARELY handle the workload and took a solid ten to fifteen minutes to complete a execution cycle.

The specs were pretty shitty, but the amount of RAM was the one that bugged me the most; I ran into OOM errors so damn often that, at a point, I could barely crunch their dataset into something readable (as they wished for me to parse it and represent it with a @dataclass that they provided) without it straight up freezing on me.

Four gigabytes is just ridiculous.

A task that was 40min-worthy turned into nine hours of trying to optimize the code enough for my code to not blow up on me, and I decided to recently call it quits; it's just... not worth it, to turn over a timed assigment 9h later.

[gritty rivet]

#python-discussion if it's simple, or see #❓｜how-to-get-help if it's more involved

[peak halo]

#python-discussion

[errant jacinth]

I explained the situation and apologized for the failure, but they're yet to respond.

Quite a bummer, really.
It had some pretty sweet benefits to it.
I'm feeling pretty darn frustrated at this whole situation (obviously), but... dunno, it's just unlucky by my part.

I'll do my interviews on the laboratory next; they have some pretty good machines and won't freeze because of HTML.
Aaand, that's it.
That's how the whole shitshow went.

[fringe sphinx]

Sorry to hear it. That is so entirely weird. Who gives a multi-gb file in a coding interview? Makes no sense.

[errant jacinth]

I don't really quite get their thought process; perhaps they were trying to simulate the high influx of parsed data into pipelines?

Nonetheless, I've cracked open a beer.
Feeling like I deserve it, after enduring nine hours of errors and freezes.

[flint pelican]

do startup companies pay their employees? Never been in one and really want to join since I have a lot of knowledfge in python and other languages but also want to be paid but kot work on corporate lol

[pine sleet]

of course. They're companies just like any other

[summer roost]

corporations like any other, even 🙂

[pine sleet]

do not work without pay. It's most likely a scam or you're being taken advantage of

[flint pelican]

That's the reason why I want to get a programming job and get paid since I know my stuff

[flint pelican]

Wjere would I find them?

[pine sleet]

LinkedIn, indeed, contacts, etc

[steel kindle]

I mean they’re like any other company legally, just in a different position product wise

[fringe sphinx]

I think you may be asking about pre/funding startups/ventures: before there’s any money or real structure. This is more the territory of incubators, ycombinator, accelerators, etc. Once there’s investment $$, it’s just another company, albeit smaller.

[flint pelican]

Yeah kind of lime that but I now realized those people can't pay their employees because of mo funding

[fringe sphinx]

Fwiw, Silicon Valley (tv show) is/was quite accurate.

[white relic]

Many startups actually begin as skunkworks or R&D projects under another company's umbrella and get spun off rather than starting from "zero"

[flint pelican]

Ahhh ok makes sense love silicon valley

[fringe sphinx]

Innovators Dilemma (Clay Christianson) is a wonderful read, it touches on some of the reasons for this effect.

[delicate bane]

i have this in my audible library. @pine sleet you should too.

[pine sleet]

[vapid jay]

Hello. As python programmer, where should I start

[summer roost]

this channel is about jobs and careers, so it doesn't sound like you should start here. I'd suggest #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

oh ty

[smoky quest]

too accurate sometimes

[keen shell]

Hi guys

What are your thoughts on lying about experience on your resume?

[smoky quest]

terrible idea

[keen shell]

Please elaborate

[smoky quest]

it's a very bad idea with more troubles than it's worth

[keen shell]

How though? If everything is done with proper planning I don't think anyone's gonna find out you are lying

[smoky quest]

Pardon the crude analogy but it's like trying to describe sex when you never had sex.
It's easy to catch liars

[keen shell]

Wait let me explain. I am not talking about saying you are a Python developer with 2 years of experience when all you know is running hello world program.
I am talking about when you are capable of doing the job but the only thing holding you back is the lack of experience.

[smoky quest]

same thing
if you don't have the experience, then you don't

[keen shell]

If I have 1 year experience and then there's a gap of 6 months.
I can put on my resume I did freelancing or consulting for those 6 months to not show the job gap

[smoky quest]

You are proving my point.
Of all the thousands of people the interviewer has talked to, do you think you are the very first person in the entire world to try to pull some shit like "freelancing" to make up for gaps or experience?
Plus as soon as they start asking you questions about it, you will not be able to back it up since you have never done it

They will not only see you a mile away but they will also blacklist you for life

[keen shell]

Don't try it with well established companies. Apply for small sized companies

[smoky quest]

that's not a matter of size

[keen shell]

I think it's about how well you sell the lie and how good are you backing it up

Also, I can start my own 'company' and put that experience on the resume

[smoky quest]

To the interviewer, you are like a 3 years old, with their mouth full of chocolate, trying to deny they haven't eaten any chocolate cake. It is that easy.

If you think that lying will get you ahead, you are learning the wrong lessons

[keen shell]

Or maybe you are too honest for this corporate world

[smoky quest]

yet I am way ahead of you

[keen shell]

Not everyone has an easy life

[smoky quest]

you would only be making it more miserable

[keen shell]

I don't think so. These so called companies lie all the time to their employees

[smoky quest]

Like what?
And then you are saying it's right for them lie? Maybe they should lie more then

[keen shell]

It must be amazing to have an easy life.
When you have bills all piled up and family to feed with no income because your last company laid you off you won't care about honesty.
It's a dog eat dog world

[smoky quest]

You are still proving my point.
Lying will make you look worse and rejected. Which in terms increases the gap in your resume. Which in turns makes you more desperate and egregious in your behavior.

[harsh river]

you think getting to that point was easy?

[keen shell]

You are straight up assuming I am bad at lying.

[smoky quest]

yes. Everyone is when it comes to talking about things they have not experienced or do not know about

[keen shell]

Okay. Mr. Know it all

[smoky quest]

you are welcome.
It's just not worth it to lie

[spark cobalt]

What have you been doing in the past 6 months if you don't mind me asking?

[keen shell]

Doing projects, learning extra skills and applying to jobs

[smoky quest]

everyone has recommended you to not lie in this server.
Yet you seem to not accept that answer.
So what is the expected outcome here?

[spark cobalt]

Have you considered there may be something wrong with your applying to jobs fundamentally? After all, you didn't have that much of a gap before compared to now, and layoffs were pretty common that people empathizes/d with people in your situation

I ask this because if there's something wrong with your projects, your application, the jobs you're applying to, etc., lying doesn't seem like it'll help

Especially because you're lying about something you've never done (freelance/consulting) and have nothing to show for it

[keen shell]

How do companies do checks for this?

[spark cobalt]

They ask questions about it. Not sure if background checks can confirm this too

[harsh river]

they call your references and companies you've listed to verify the information you've provided.

[smoky quest]

There are a few ways, but we won't get into too much details because of rule 5

[keen shell]

I have a friend in a very good company and he literally provided me with an actual project they do that the job. So, it's a production level project and I know everything about it and can answer every question related to it.
That's what I am going to mention in the freelance/consult work

[spark cobalt]

Most people that are getting jobs right now are not liars. It means you're doing something wrong if you feel so fixated on doing this lying bullshit

[smoky quest]

people try that, and yet there are a few questions that would trip you up anyway

[keen shell]

I am sorry but why do you think I am not capable of anything?

[smoky quest]

Also consider they do not have to prove that you lie. They only have to feel that something is fishy.
For the interviewer, it's safer to pass on someone potentially good than take a chance on someone who turns out bad

[smoky quest]

How do you conflate lying with being capable of nothing?

[keen shell]

Everything I say, you say you won't be able to answer that, you will get caught and shit

[smoky quest]

yeah. You haven't done the project and there are easy ways to catch you, even if you think you are great at lying.
That has no bearing on whether or not you would be able to do that project. But you didn't do it. So who knows

[keen shell]

Brother I literally said I know everything about the project. I literally prepared to answer every question related to it. Can you read?

[smoky quest]

I did read.
And yet you would still fail

[keen shell]

What a guy😂

[smoky quest]

what makes you think I am a guy?

[wind trench]

I am fresher in IT field so how should I start learn coding???

[keen shell]

What a human 😂

[smoky quest]

https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ is a great beginner resource!

[spark cobalt]

I think it should be pointed out that with this project or not, the fact that you feel like lying is the only way to get a job shows that you are likely behind your competitors and you will likely be cut for other reasons EVEN if you can answer every question about this one project.

[keen shell]

Accept my friend request. I will keep giving you updates about my career and how it turned out.

[spark cobalt]

There is something fundamentally wrong with your job applying that you are not addressing. Before fixing that, you might not even get the chance to interview and lie to begin with!

[smoky quest]

I don't do DMs. feel free to update here.

But understand that I have seen it all:

• I have had people storming rooms and being angry
• I have had people who had friends on the call
• I have had people using existing youtube projects
• I have had people putting their feet on the table, checking their phone and doing weird shit
• I have had people asking inappropriate questions
• I have had people trying to pass their friends projects as theirs
• etc.

My experience isn't abnormal. It's the normal thing interviewers see after a few years.
So again, you coming up about stuff about what your friend told you is like your friend explaining to you sex and then being asked about it during an interview. The interviewer will see you coming a mile away

And in the event you succeed in fooling someone, then great for you! But I would caution against working with people so easy to fool... Which may also turn against yourself as it might burn a whole bridge if they discover it

[spark cobalt]

Could also indicate weak interviewing/hiring practices which will say a lot about your colleagues that you work with.

[keen shell]

I seriously don't care about that. I just want to put food on my table.

Once I gain actual experience I can remove the fake experience

[smoky quest]

but then again, what's the expected outcome of this discussion?
Everyone has told you to not lie

[summer roost]

getting caught in a lie is an instant reject (and likely blackball). If your goal is to maximize expected value, starting off with fraud isn't a great idea

hell, it's not unheard of for people to be criminally prosecuted after being caught in a lie about their prior experience

[keen shell]

That depends on the field you are working in and how important and critical the work you do is

[spark cobalt]

Caught in a lie will also likely forbade any future interviews with said company.

[keen shell]

There's thousands more

[smoky quest]

it's also a small world.
There are many instances where you know someone in common

[spark cobalt]

Especially if you go into specific industry, everyone knows each other. (I work in networking industry, everyone here knows each other its almost creepy lmfao)

[keen shell]

I think it's what we have experienced till date and from my experience I can say honesty ain't as glorified as they say. Just do what you can do to put food on the table.
I ain't hurting no one. Just lying to get a chance to prove I can do the job.

[spark cobalt]

You're free to do what you want, but fundamentally the fact that you choose to ignore that something could be wrong with your current applying is concerning. Makes me wonder how you'd tackle problems on a job, will you do it the same way with your job hunt :)

The brain works in a silly way, if it works once, why not do it again if it works?

Let's say you do get this opportunity, be careful of this.

[summer roost]

Seems like you had already made up your mind to commit some fraud, and came here looking for support. Best of luck rationalizing your choices, I guess

[keen shell]

I know why I am not getting interview calls and it's because of lack of experience.
I was a data analyst before and now switching to data engineering. I have 1 year experience working as a data analyst and planning to add 6 months as a data engineer (freelance)

[spark cobalt]

This switch is more common than you think... How are other data analysts switching to data engineering and why can't you?

[smoky quest]

Humans don't want to hang around losers. They want to hang around cool people.
I am not saying you are a loser, but to other interviewers, you won't appear in a good shape. You will be lying, desperate. Not the traits of people that others want to hang around.
That will make your search more difficult and your desperation greater

[spark cobalt]

^ Desperate people are huge turnoffs. Definitely something to watch out for in the actual interview.

[smoky quest]

There is a proper english word for it but it escapes me at the moment

[keen shell]

I won't say fraud. I am doing this just to get the interview calls. If I am not capable I won't be able to clear the interviews. How is this fraud?

[smoky quest]

lying on the merchandise is fraud
If someone claims to have X years of experience on something they don't, then that's fraud

[summer roost]

Your explicit goal is to trick the company into doing something they wouldn't do if you were honest

That's practically the definition of fraud

[keen shell]

You don't know how brutal the job market is for entry level positions right now

[keen shell]

Like the companies are saints

[spark cobalt]

I know very well :)

[summer roost]

Again, this is a rationalization. "It's ok to steal from them, they don't need that money like I do"

[eager jungle]

Two wrongs don't do a right, and stealing from a thief is not a right thing to morally because that's a thief

[smoky quest]

I am still waiting on how companies lie to everyone

[eager jungle]

Well they use birds(government drones)

[orchid needle]

A lot of professional, experienced minds are giving you the advice you’re seeking in terms of what you should do. You can choose to take the advice or not, it’s actually quite simple.

[eager jungle]

This is not a clean world, but there do exist some degree of corruption, but that doesn't mean everyone is trying to steal, just maybe 1-2%

[summer roost]

People are very good at convincing themselves that it's ok to do something that they know is bad, for this reason or that reason

[smoky quest]

That does not make it a rule.
The fact you find all sorts of crime, do not make them a rule

[keen shell]

All I am saying is you are just someone you makes money for the company nothing more. The minute they find a robot that can do your job, they are kicking you out that very moment

They don't care about you, why do you care about them so much

[smoky quest]

yeah, as they should.
If someone can do your job for cheaper, then they should switch.

The trick is to make sure you generate enough value that neither a robot nor a new grad can replace you 🙂

[keen shell]

Do you own a company or are you an HR? Genuinely asking

[spark cobalt]

The minute they find a huge liar amongst the employees, they will kick them out 😊

[smoky quest]

and the opposite is true!
If you find a company willing to pay you more, wouldn't you switch?
If you find a store that sells you the same stuff than your regular store for cheaper, wouldn't you switch?

[eager jungle]

The job is a "contract" between you and the organisation, you both should hold up the contract by you providing the work, and they pay you. Both of you can cancel this contract anytime. There is no right or wrong here

[summer roost]

Companies are made up of people, and as a person working for a company, I don't want a coworker who used deceit to get hired. And I just generally think that the world would be a better place if fewer people talked themselves into doing things that they know are wrong.

[smoky quest]

neither

[keen shell]

But how? So, you are telling me they do background checks on you every single day even if you are good at your job?

[smoky quest]

I can think of at least 10 different ways to figure that out easily.
You aren't the first one and there are many smart people out there testing the system

[eager jungle]

That's the job of HR, ofc they will be checking thier employees, as it's thier job

[smoky quest]

I am far more concerned that you don't see anything wrong with doing terrible things

[spark cobalt]

You may have convinced yourself that you won't lie on the job and you'll be a goodie two shoes when you get the job, but if you do get a job this way, your brain has been slightly rewired to be more likely to lie to compensate for problems you feel unable to solve.

[keen shell]

I do agree big companies can find your lies. But not the small ones

[spark cobalt]

Especially for something as monumental as this, it could significaintly rewire your brain in a negative way.

[smoky quest]

they all use the same tools

[spark cobalt]

Also you seem to be neglecting the serious questions. DA moving to DE is extremely common. Your case isn't new and isn't an edge case. You're fundamentally doing something wrong.

[keen shell]

TERRIBLE? As if I am killing someone.

[spark cobalt]

An honest person could have gotten that job that is in your current situation.

[smoky quest]

one can do terrible things without involving loss of life

[eager jungle]

You may take someone's job post by false claims about yourself

[smoky quest]

Anyway, at this point, it's either a troll or they won't get the point across
So I am taping out

[spark cobalt]

Seems like lost cause so yeah, I'm out too. Gn peeps (or gm)

[keen shell]

So? It's a dog eat dog world.

[eager jungle]

So now are you gonna eat dog now? I don't think so.

Grow your skills, or if you can't, maybe do something you actually like doing

Sometimes, everything can be hard, but you will always have choices

[keen shell]

I have the skills but no one is giving me a chance to prove myself because of the unrealistic experience they need for entry level positions

[eager jungle]

I think you already know answer, but it's hard to accept it

Have some more courage, you will definitely find your job thats waiting for you. You will have to search for it.

[keen shell]

It's easy for people with comfortable life to say be honest and shit, but when things are pretty bad you don't have much of a choice

[smoky quest]

That's a lame excuse.
There are people in far worse situations that have come out far better than you

[keen shell]

Thanks. I hope so

[spark cobalt]

Thanks for assuming what I went through :)

[keen shell]

I didn't mention you, did I?

[eager jungle]

I feel like, you are trying to give up, it's just a matter of motivation.

Your real question should what are different ways to search for a job

[keen shell]

And what's my situation?

[eager jungle]

I'm sure you haven't exhausted all the sources you can find

[smoky quest]

nothing that would justify to lie on a resume or in an interview 😉

[keen shell]

You know what I will give two more months with honest search

[spark cobalt]

You should look into what is wrong with your job search, connect/reach out to the tens of thousands of DAs that moved to DEs to see what they did.

[eager jungle]

Try changing the methods you are currently searching, life may get hard, but there is always a better way out than do illegal stuff

[keen shell]

Cool. Will try

[smoky quest]

feel free to also post an anonymized version of your resume for review

[keen shell]

Wait

Skills
• Data Engineering: ETL Pipelines, Data Warehousing, Data Modelling
• Programming: Python, SQL, PySpark
• Cloud: Azure Data Factory, Databricks, Azure Data Lake
• Databases: PostgreSQL, MySQL
• Big Data: Apache Spark, Hadoop

Experience
Data Analyst — XYZ Company — April 2022 - May 2023
• Cleaned and analysed data of over 2,00,000 customers using Pandas to create cohort charts,
providing insights into customer behaviour patterns.
• Developed Python script with OpenCV and Skimage for image-based data scraping, achieving
40% increase in data extraction.
• Created a web application using Python, pandas, and Streamlit, eliminating the team’s
dependency on me for a specific task and improving overall efficiency.
• Scraped data from 50+ dynamic and static websites using Selenium, requests, and BeautifulSoup, enabling access to valuable information about the target audience.

Projects
Fashion Sale Explorer App - github.com/
• Developed a Python-based web application using Streamlit to enable users to track ongoing
sales from top fashion brands like Zara, H&M, and Uniqlo.
• Implemented brand-specific web scrapers using requests, Selenium and BeautifulSoup4 to
extract on sale products details.
• Transformed raw JSON data into structured CSV format, selecting only the required data
fields, reducing the data size by 80%.
• Implemented a robust logging and error-handling mechanism, reducing debugging time by 30%
and ensuring seamless data collection.

Azure Data Migration Pipeline
• Created Azure end-to-end data project, migrating on-premises SQL Server data to Azure Cloud.
• Orchestrated ETL with Azure Data Factory, Databricks, transforming data into bronze,
silver, gold layers.
• Utilized Azure Synapse for high-performance warehousing and Power BI for insightful dashboards.
• Ensured security via Azure Key Vault, enhancing data privacy.

[eager jungle]

And you better learn a way to handle burning out yourself, I'm sure it will help you a lot. Because of burnout from repeated failures of job search, you have been rude to people here.

[keen shell]

@smoky quest

[south hazel]

For web dev one need to learn both php and python ?

[eager jungle]

This may affect your mental health too, so take care of it @keen shell

[keen shell]

I apologize

[smoky quest]

do you have a pdf version like you would send to an application?

[eager jungle]

As much as physical health, mental health is also important, so take care of it.

[keen shell]

I would need to edit it though. You can read it above

[smoky quest]

yeah no worries. Asking in case

[keen shell]

Cool

[smoky quest]

any education section?

[keen shell]

Bachelor's in IT

[keen shell]

It is above skills on the pdf

[south hazel]

For web dev one need to learn both php and python ?

[keen shell]

Python and Django

[south hazel]

I know py how long it will take me to learn Django?

I saw on chatgtp it says 6month lol

[keen shell]

Depends on how much time you put in daily

[eager jungle]

https://roadmap.sh/full-stack

This can help you to see the road to become a full stack developer

[smoky quest]

Overall, looks good from what I can tell.

Some misc. notes:

• Looks like there is a typo in 2,00,000 customers in the DA experience
• In your first DA experience, it would be nice to give more context into what you were extracting how was that complex
• More details into what your streamlit app enabled
• Might be beneficial to talk about how you handled projects in your DA job
• if you are looking for a DE job, I would replace your fashion project with something different and probably related to snowflake and dbt
• Your projects are a bit too abstract in terms of scale and impact

[south hazel]

Thanks

[smoky quest]

Again, overall, your resume isn't too bad. You are most likely between a rock and a hard place in a tougher environment.
The main issue is it doesn't standout comparing to other DE resumes I see

[eager jungle]

No problem 👍

[south hazel]

That's Fluctuating haha maybe 2/3 hours per day

[keen shell]

Got it. Thanks for the great pointers.
And I would like to apologize for my rude behaviour.

[smoky quest]

I would also suggest some projects related to CDC (ex: debezium) and kafka.

And no worries for the rude behavior.
You will get plenty of help as long as you are willing to do things the right way 🙂 Long term it will lead to a better outcome and career for you

[smoky quest]

I would also recommend the awesome book Fundamentals of Data Engineering

[keen shell]

Noted. 😊

[keen shell]

I have read it. It's an amazing book.

[smoky quest]

awesome!

[keen shell]

Great. It was nice talking to you. Let's get back to work.

[keen shell]

@spark cobalt I would like to apologize to you too for my behaviour

[spark cobalt]

It's okay. I know where you're coming from, I wondered the same thing.

[keen shell]

It was the frustration piled up. But it's no excuse to be rude to people

[hidden bloom]

got it

[proven crest]

Hey all!

Just curious, for those of you who have worked /work as in office developers, do you spent significant portions of your days in meetings?

[compact dagger]

hello

[south hazel]

@clyde

[spark cobalt]

Depends. But typically no.

[blazing mountain]

How to get a job as an 18 yr old? As in what are the requirements, what position to apply.

[azure bridge]

Hi i perfectly agree with you m8. Im struggling with the same issue. I have 3 years of experience working with python, and im struggling to find a job .....

[azure bridge]

I have noticed a sever drop in HR recruiter skills, alot of ghosting and lack of feedback after investing 4 hours into code chanllenges in technical interviews...

[white relic]

Try retail: requirements are minimal and there's a lot of turnover.

If you want to get a job as a software engineer or similar, a degree in computer science offers the greatest opportunity, but presumably you want a job now

[keen shell]

It's tough out there

[azure bridge]

more like disappointing

[pliant bobcat]

Will google data analytics certificate + experience gained from it help me land an entry position on data analysis?

[true harness]

i can wholeheartedly endorse fast food restaurants

[vapid jay]

Hiya

[brave dune]

Hiya

[gritty rivet]

Will it help? Maybe a little. Will it be sufficient? Unlikely if you have no other qualifications.

[blazing mountain]

so getting an internship in a tech company is sort of impossible now?

[true harness]

internships are typically reserved for college students

[blazing mountain]

dang, thats tough

[pine sleet]

retail/fast food might not be fun but you'd still get to make money. You could also put it on your resume until you get some more work experience that's more related

[blazing mountain]

I wish I could get smth remote, idc if smth is hard I could learn stuff fast

[white relic]

Hiring anyone is a risk. Hiring remote only is a bigger risk. Hiring someone with no experience is riskier still. What do you bring to the table that would justify a company taking a risk on you?

[charred spade]

how to get a job/internship as a data scientist with no experience? 😐 If anyone's experienced in such things and would be willing to review my resume, would appreciate it it you dm'd me. I even got a portfolio website, but.. no luck so far

[blazing mountain]

Thats fair, I dont have any rep, but isn't it possible for me work for free for 1-2 weeks and let the hiring company see if Im qualified enough?

[white relic]

That doesn't really make sense from the company's perspective. It's costly to onboard new employees and if you need to hire five new people it doesn't make sense to evaluate candidates two weeks at a time. Moreover, there's not really any shortage of college graduates who are looking to fill the same roles.

[white relic]

You may feel free to post your résumé here for feedback (with personal info redacted).

Data science is a hard field to break into without a solid education though.

[mint oracle]

Less job this time and high competition!

I am thinking to skip placement and go for masters . I think it's the best option for me

[blazing mountain]

right, then what do I do? Get into web, learn html, css, js, then go learn python frameworks, build some projects and look for a startup?

[white relic]

You graduate next year right? There's no harm in keeping your options open for now. Keep looking for jobs while you prep for the master's. It's early to give up (I've seen the sentiment that the market may get easier soon but who knows). Both options are solid tbh.

[spark cobalt]

It's still a huge cost. People need to onboard you, some legal things need to be addressed, etc. What happens if you end up not being good at all? Then the company loses. Realistically you won't be doing anything in 1-2 weeks to justify the cost to have you there.

You'll find that it's more common to do C2H (contract to hire) basis. 2 weeks is just not enough for someone to fully onboard, assimilate to company culture, and to really show their own capabilities in difficult problems

[charred spade]

huh.. pdfs aren't allowed, it seems

[white relic]

All of that sounds like stuff you would do if you want to get a more or less full stack web job, with the exception of the startup part (more on that in a minute). But bear in mind, there are also college graduates who have done all of this and are also applying to jobs. It's not hopeless, but it will take some time to find someone who's willing to take a chance on you.

[white relic]

Try a screenshot

[spark cobalt]

You need to give a damn compelling good reason for someone to take a chance on you when practically every junior position under the sun gets at least dozens to hundreds of applicants.

[spark cobalt]

You haven't gave that compelling reason yet. How can a company ensure you can "learn fast"?

[white relic]

A startup is probably the hardest possible environment for a new person with no experience. You have to be really good and you have to be good at a lot of stuff. People who work at startups probably won't really consider you because they know this.

[blazing mountain]

I guess you are right, saying I follow andrew tate doesn't ensure I can do hard shit

[spark cobalt]

Eh I was hired by a startup. They're generally less competitive and they have reason to hire someone for cheaper. But yeah what you say is also true, need to give a damned compelling reason for startup to take that risk to hire.

Larger companies is just way too competitive. They won't even read your resume since you'll be knocked out of early ATS stages

[delicate bane]

hundreds to thousands*

[white relic]

I defer to Wilder since I haven't been in that situation as a jobseeker

[charred spade]

is making a cover letter to go along with you resume when applying enough, or do you need to go banging hiring manager dm's to even get noticed? Personally, I think having a portfolio website+a hosted project should be enough for an entry level internship position, but.. how do I even get noticed in the first place???

[white relic]

I suppose it depends on the startup

[spark cobalt]

The job hunt isn't one dimensional. You need to figure out how you separate from your competition. Just because you can do "web" stuff doesn't mean the rest of your competition can't.

[delicate bane]

table stakes

[spark cobalt]

At least in my startup, almost everyone at the company are seniors and expensive af and when I was hired they were starting to get into the phase of hiring juniors to do some of the smaller work that seniors have been doing. Lucky timing I guess.

The other offer I got was very very early stage startup where the company only had 4 engineers. Though this is really not something I'd suggest to work in. Also some of the higher ups seemed hella predatory

[odd mortar]

Does anyone have advice for finding an internship

[spark cobalt]

Besides any typical and standard advice, no, unless you give more information. (People are happy to give you a resume review, can send an anonymized version of it)

[white relic]

Yeah, I can see that. My employer is kiiinda in a similar stage and we have hired people with less than the expected experience for various reasons (not SWEs though).

That 4 person early stage startup is more the super intense environment I was thinking of with my comment. I can imagine it might be predatory, but even if not, I bet it still would be a hard work environment for an inexperienced person

[blazing mountain]

wouldn't it just toughen me up and then I could put a lot more on a resume like communication skills, working with a team, working under a lot of pressure , etc?

[spark cobalt]

You'd be 1/4th of the engineering power for an entire company. Do you think you have what it takes?

[blazing mountain]

I am confident enough to try

[spark cobalt]

That's cute and all, but realistically considering you haven't built a full scale production ready project/product, you don't really know what you're signing up for.

[blazing mountain]

you gotta start somewhere

[spark cobalt]

It's great to be confident, but it seems almost baseless.

[blazing mountain]

wouldn't say baseless, just not as based as some of yall

[spark cobalt]

Yeah, definitely.

And I see where you're coming from, cuz I've been in your situation. But this kind of mindset is exactly a mindset that allows a manager to abuse you. You're a hungry drooling dog that doesn't know better waiting for that treat. At least, this was pretty much how I'd describe what the management for the other offer I got is like.

[white relic]

This is a respectable resume tbh. Bachelor of Economics is something I don't really see on the kinds of resumes I review, so I probably wouldn't hire you but if I were doing something where that was relevant, your projects and freelance experience would qualify you for a technical interview.

Are you looking for jobs relevant to your degree? Or just anything data science related?

[spark cobalt]

But we're not in this phase yet. Getting some specialization in a skill, building a product/project that gives you some competitive factor (remember, you're going against people that has done 4 years of college, with internships, etc.), is a good start

[gritty rivet]

Regarding "how do I get noticed", this is relevant if you haven't seen it... basically network and find the jobs fewer people are applying to. https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-software-engineers/

[charred spade]

I was looking for anything data science/data analyst related

[white relic]

What kinds of jobs do people normally get with an economics degree? That seems like a field where you have to have a PhD before anyone pays attention.

[spark cobalt]

Do note, this path is extremely rare, anyone who pursues this path does so by exception. There is no standard (relative to 4 year college path) and you'd be heavily on your own.

Your path is even harder than almost all self taught gurus online. Almost all of them online have a degree (albeit likely unrelated) or did a career switch. You have neither an existing career nor a degree.

If you plan to do this path, you seriously need some plan of action that can give you reasonable chances to being employed.

[blazing mountain]

but then how do people (ik 1) are able to score jobs make decent money and do jack shit, they in uni idk how it works there but 1st grade??? and everything that they did I could have done easily

[blazing mountain]

I will go to uni, but from what I've seen on the courses they teach, learnt that myself 2 yrs ago

[pine sleet]

you would be surprised

[spark cobalt]

Sounds like an internship. Internships assume you don't know jack, only so much you can realistically do in 3 months

[spark cobalt]

With hundreds of applicants for each job, do you think a manager will care to test you on these things when the rest of the applicants have been tested on these things by a high standing institution?

How can you prove this knowledge?

[blazing mountain]

true, I need to do some projects, but idk what is a project worht doing, Im not in a specific niche

[spark cobalt]

Do something you're passionate about. Any other project will just be something that is done by every other applicant which will be impossible to stand out.

[charred spade]

pretty much anything that has to do with finance, it's actually very broad, from literally any position in a bank, to accounting. And yeah, as someone with no experience, all I could manage to get was the lowest position at a bank working with retail clients.. That's when I decided to reeducate myself and learn Data Science. It's been over a year since then, now looking for a job once again

[spark cobalt]

When someone reads your resume and reads your project section, you need to compel them to want to know more and to interview you.

Cuz really that's all you'll have.

[blazing mountain]

building a rat, will that be a "good" project?

[spark cobalt]

Like: "this kid made this??? I wonder what more he can do"

[spark cobalt]

Idk what that means so idk

[charred spade]

i made https://innov8finance.pythonanywhere.com/, nobody is wondering what more I can do 😢

[blazing mountain]

remote access tool

[true harness]

no

[pine sleet]

pretty sure RAT has a negative connotation having to do with malware and all

[white relic]

Aside, I always like hearing Wilder's take on stuff in this channel. It's great to have that realistic perspective on self taught from someone who didn't do the university path.

[spark cobalt]

You can only fit so much in a resume (that is, people won't be looking at your personal website unless your resume gives good reason to), but yeah giving an outlet to know more is pretty smart.

[blazing mountain]

idk then, a sudoku builder?

[spark cobalt]

That's a very elementary project, you won't be taken seriously.

[blazing mountain]

Im not really creative tbh

[spark cobalt]

I have a thing against the self taught gurus online. Felt like I was brutally lied to

[spark cobalt]

Maybe consider what made you want to code to begin with? And try extending from there...?

[blazing mountain]

uhm, being better than everyone in my class and building game scripts... Yeah, not much working room here :/

[white relic]

I wish you the best. It's probably going to be easiest for you though if you can find a way to spin your degree rather than starting over from scratch in a new field. Every field needs data analysts. I know of a couple people who have transitioned into tech from nursing via nursing informatics. I don't know what the equivalent would be for banking.

[spark cobalt]

Hmm take some time to think I guess. But I can assure you anything in the top 1000 websites when you search good coding projects will be generic shit seen in every other resume.

Also, people copying projects online is a thing that I think most companies are aware of.

[true harness]

at this point you don't really know what you don't know. school teaches you those things

[spark cobalt]

Yeah that's the biggest thing tbh

You a.) Don't know wtf is going on and b.) Don't know enough to assess any advice or plan of action and c.) Don't know where to start learning these things cuz of a and b

[eager jungle]

A project is used to solve an issue, in normal scenarios, why don't you try solving some issues you experience while programming?

[spark cobalt]

Imma go take a nap, long day of work ahead. Woke up early on accident. Cya guys

[blazing mountain]

cya and thanks

[patent yoke]

Hey, can you guys help me with a error for some reason I can't able to install pyaudio in python 3.12.0

[eager jungle]

Pyaudio won't work above python 3.6 version, and this channel isn't for asking help.. checking out #❓｜how-to-get-help will help you

[white relic]

many people have the idea "my resume of real world projects is better than a resume of someone who just went to school for 4 years"
which might be true as far as it goes, but ignores that people who went to school for 4 years also had the ability to do projects, take internships, and have been looking for ways to distinguish themselves from their colleagues.
It's not "projects vs. education" it's "projects vs. projects and education" (greatly oversimplified)

[patent yoke]

Okay thank you

[blazing mountain]

uhm, cant really think of anything rn tbh

[lime compass]

Hello!

[eager jungle]

Art can't be drawn whenever the artist needs an idea,

It will come when you are actively searching for it, don't worry about it, you will get a good one soon 👍

[blazing mountain]

dang thats inspiring, thanks :DD

[eager jungle]

Sure np 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

Rumsfeld strikes again https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are_unknown_unknowns

[delicate bane]

this is a good quote

[fringe sphinx]

Rumsfeld had some epic quotes, my other favorite was: you go to war with the army you’ve got, not the army you want.

What’s your career goal?

I know a lot of folks who went management track, MBAs are very helpful for working professionals who have little practical business knowledge; the programs tend to be very case study oriented and actually quite insightful. I didn’t do an MBA, but read much of my friends case studies… very fun reads

[white relic]

Is your employer paying for it?

Paying for an MBA out of pocket without a concrete plan probably isn't financially sound

[delicate bane]

thats a good people management quote.

[delicate bane]

do you typically see individuals who get an MBA go the management route? you dont really see them go the IC route, right?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I use that in sales a lot; you sell the product you’ve got. Not the product you want, etc.

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t recall any ICs with an MBA, tbh.

[delicate bane]

thats what i figured. good to know.

[gritty rivet]

Maybe some programs are fine depending on your goals. I work with some great people who have MBAs. But I found this an interesting take...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/apr/27/bulldoze-the-business-school

[fringe sphinx]

I went MS CS, but ended up in mgmt myself… but I studied / read the business side.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, there’s also probably industry differences. The people I’m thinking about were primarily in enterprise software development. In fintech, the mix is probably different

[delicate bane]

this is the realest take ive seen. interesting article.

teaching students that heroic transformational leaders are the answer to every problem, or that the purpose of learning about taxation laws is to evade taxation, or that creating new desires is the purpose of marketing. In every case, the business school acts as an apologist, selling ideology as if it were science

[delicate bane]

like self-studied?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes

[delicate bane]

gotcha. im not sure if i want my career to go that route but theres def pressure to lol.

i am, however, glad i took recursives advice and read The Manager's Path (Camille Fournier)

[fringe sphinx]

There’s some good books that are interesting reads that bridge tech and business. Innovators Dilemma (mentioned earlier) is one of those

[delicate bane]

yeah my mentor rec'd that one to me after i mentioned Build by Tony Fadell

[fringe sphinx]

Some of the pop stuff like Malcolm Gladwells books are in the same vein.

[delicate bane]

ah i read several of those in my past life

[fringe sphinx]

Harvard Business Review is also good

https://hbr.org

[hybrid echo]

what is the best way to get experience in python that can be placed on a resume after I finish learning python? I currently am doing low code development for the last two years.

[deft herald]

Do something useful with it. Contribute to OSS, make some larger scale projects, etc

[deft herald]

!projects There's a good list here

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[hybrid echo]

Thank you that is awesome! so I should post all these projects on my github?

[deft herald]

I wouldn't recommend doing all of them 😄

[hybrid echo]

yeah that is a lot. I think that doing some of them would be best. This is what I thought about doing I just didn't know if employers would recognize that as experience.

[gritty arrow]

Is there a way to use a raspberry pie to make my laptop run with higher graphics or frame rate

[plush summit]

What has that to do with careers dis 😅

[fringe sphinx]

Don’t get things backwards tho: you first need to be prepared for the job. That’s the first purpose of projects: to be a competent engineer. Then, as part of this prep, you try to do things that help you stand out or demonstrate this competency. As you get ‘good’, consider open source contributions too.

[white relic]

Anything you have done is fair game to put on your résumé: work experience, school projects, personal projects, open source contributions. It's your résumé.

It's best to have a combination of projects, education and work experience. If you don't have one of those things you're relying more heavily on the others to demonstrate you have the skills to tackle the job you're applying for.

[atomic yacht]

why i cant speak in vc?

[white relic]

See #voice-verification. This channel is for discussing careers

[hybrid echo]

I would really like to get to the point that I can help with Open Source Projects. I try and use only FOSS and cant contribute financially to projects so I would like to help projects that way. I have a ways to go but that is the dream.

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t mean financially. I mean: filing bugs, reviewing or reproducing open issues, and eventually tackling easy issues

[hybrid echo]

Right that is what I want to do because I cant financially.

[gritty rivet]

Poke around this list, it might be easier then you think: https://github.com/MunGell/awesome-for-beginners

[lilac remnant]

So apparently I'm supposed to become a SME in something for another promotion. Anyone know what that actually concretely looks like? I'm not even sure what are valid subjects to become a SME in

[white relic]

What's a SME?

[lilac remnant]

Subject Matter Expert

[white relic]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-happy-peter-pan-dance-smee-gif-23631729

[lilac remnant]

For some reason that's what comes after Senior here

I'm kind of hoping Rust is a valid subject matter but that's probably too optimistic...

Maybe it is possible though. I was pretty thrilled last week when a Sr. Director emailed me directly about this new project that was in the pipeline. He didn't mention Rust in that email, but my manager told me they wanted "an emphasis in Rust" for it and that's why he went right to me

[buoyant seal]

What is your job role, job duties/tasks?

[lilac remnant]

I didn't realize my reputation went that far

[lilac remnant]

Senior SWE with a little research thrown in. I'm not really specialized in any one thing because I've been in numerous, wildly different projects

[buoyant seal]

Too much not specific. Surely there should be at least some narrowing down?

Like not doing embedded?
Doing stuff for OSes X, Y, Z
Taking care of backend, web front, desktop, mobile
Dealing with web infra, AWS, monitoring systems and etc?
At least some narrowing down should be present. U cant be specialist in everything, right?

(Even if u tried everything, try account only experience of only last 5 years.(or even only last 2-3 years) Stuff before that is probably faded from memory anyway, or got outdated, if it was not practiced.)

[spare edge]

is 1 level of Frogger (1981 game by Konami) a good project for resume applying for junior software engineer jobs an internships?

[lilac remnant]

In the last 5 years I've done a little web, AI/ML, NLP, programming language AST stuff, low level networking programming, and this new one is malware analysis

[fringe sphinx]

What ‘subject’ tho? I generally agree with the idea that as engineers progress, it’s expected that they learn more of the problem domain (domain expert = sme, to me, ok fine, is a type of sme)

[buoyant seal]

what would be your most used 3 languages? i estimate that a person is not likely to know at any deep level more than 5 fully fledged languages probably 🤔
There is only so little work and free time of self studies, to learn and maintain, keep up with all the stuff

[lilac remnant]

Rust 🦀 , Java ☕ , Python 🐍

[lilac remnant]

I don't really know what qualifies as a subject one can be a SME in

[buoyant seal]

what had biggest portion of your invested your time in?
which one is the one you would prefer to deal with in a long run more than others?

[white relic]

I would tend to assume "subject matter" relates to domain knowledge and not tools

[buoyant seal]

under question. domain knowledge or technologies/tools. @lilac remnant needs to specify what is qualified 😅

[white relic]

if my boss said "we need to hire a subject matter expert" I would figure we were talking an expert in superconducting physics

[lilac remnant]

Well the networking programming was the most fun but we have a bunch of old school Bell Labs folks here so I don't think I can try to call myself a networking SME

[buoyant seal]

what is true for one company, does not mean true for every company. Companies can't even agree what DevOps engineer job role is 😅
we need to know requirements better

[lilac remnant]

Yeah I guess this might be too specific to my company. I've never heard of SME being a job level

[buoyant seal]

@lilac remnant can you provide examples of valid SMEs?

[lilac remnant]

Unfortunately not. I know a few at that level but I have no clue what they'd be SMEs in

It goes Senior, SME, then "Recognized Master"

Nothing normal like Staff or Principal

[white relic]

My old employer had a rule something like that to get promoted beyond level 4 or 5 I think. But it was a qualification not a job title

[buoyant seal]

my company has for every coding related role, a board of skills and their levels. fun diagram to move points, how much you like and familiar to work with tool/technology/discipline X. Not very restricted which stuff you put in, as long as it is validly related to your role.
One dimension of the digaram => how much you hate or like it (neutral is possible)
another dimension => skill level you think u have with this thing

Kind of useful as shows comparison between different stuff
mostly for self diagnostics stuff, although i think it is used by our managers to asign us projects to our likeness and our strengths.

[lilac remnant]

Yeah qualification seems more like what it should be

[lilac remnant]

That sounds like a neat tool for the organization. I'm not sure how we track things like that internally here. Like I'm pretty surprised this Sr. Director I've never worked with knew or had a way to find out that I'm into Rust and to find me for a project with it

[buoyant seal]

@lilac remnant Anyway, i would expect i personally would feel SME level in stuff...
... I just reached deep level of knowledge in some subject.
Or if i just know middle average subject in some... narrow specific subject, rarely anyone learns. So even middle level is SME pretty much, as i can be often enough a single person that knows anything about it.

I would qualify my current knowledge about Datadog as SME i think 🤔 I Configured with almost all systems integration of our infra into it, and in current company out of all devs the only one posessing this level of knowledge. Some chance having good level in comparison to people through all sub branches of company

[lilac remnant]

I guess I actually do use Docker like way too much but I don't think I want to advertise myself as a go-to guy for that. Maybe as a backup I suppose

[buoyant seal]

i think i could be brave enough to qualify my knowledge in code architecturing python code... potentially of significant high level. Just because i cared to learn to quite deep level static typing (of a real static typing level), read and practiced unit testing and code architecture to sufficient capacity. I have suspicion, not a lot of people will be able write accurate... pydantic pedantic code as i am (within current company/sub branch at least)
Github searched through all our organization, pretty much the only person using static typing of Python to its full capacity.

I think i still have a big room to expand my knowledge in terms of code architecture (significantly big room. I see examples of peoples and subjects ahead i did not learn yet in this direction). But the thing is... in comparison to other present colleagues i think it is high enough to qualify for SME potentially.

everything is relative after all 😅

[lilac remnant]

I definitely can't say the same about Python heh. Maybe I'd dislike using it less if I architected better, but I'd rather just use Rust 😬

[buoyant seal]

it is replace Rust with Go for me. but i still can try my best with Python to do better.

[lilac remnant]

I ended up owning this Python codebase that was really more just a prototype at first but has grown to be past the point of it being a reasonable option to rewrite it

[buoyant seal]

Good thinking. Unless you are DevOps engineer, not likely that you practiced it to SME level.
For every DevOps engineer, big chances they become experts by default in this technology (in comparison to all other dev roles)

[inner wren]

Rules

The rules and guidelines that apply to this community can be found on our rules page. We expect all members of the community to have read and understood these.

[lilac remnant]

Well I have a lot to discuss with my manager in our call Friday

[buoyant seal]

what is programming language AST stuff? programming syntax of a language?

[final moon]

Sup. Guys?

[lilac remnant]

Yeah parsing and manipulating source code

[buoyant seal]

okay, then you have potential 3 kind of programming domains

programming language AST stuff, low level networking programming, and this new one is malware analysis

Otherwise perhaps u have rich enough skill levels in Rust/Java to be expert in them too? have you written libraries in them for different subjects from zero?
Have you made throughly thought custom code architectures in them that made sense and was testable, maintainable, readable, had good formed domain language around the tool, had good meaningful logging and etc helping to have those tools to high capacity?

Otherwise, may be you contributed to some known open source tools, just because u reached high enough in them level to encounter intricate bugs and sufficient knowledge to report and may be offer a fix? Consider those tools/tech as your potential SME stuff too

Otherwise just think of the stuff that you know more than your other colleagues. Not really needing to be expert in order to be SME in company in this subject. You need to know just more than others. Although just having deep enough level without having knowledge higher than others is qualifiying enough level i think too

how high was your diving into little web, AI/ML, NLP is up to you. hard to judge here. except seeing described level as little

[lilac remnant]

Yeah I started to get a little bored of the ML stuff tbh and then we started hiring people with degrees in it anyway so I got displaced

Rust I would feel comfortable saying I'm a SME in. Especially considering I don't know a single other person at the company using it

[buoyant seal]

stuff we are SME in, can be often considered just normal level of knowledge to us , from our point of view (while everyone else knows even less) 😉 So may be Rust it is for you then.
Everything is relative.

[white relic]

that is the way I became an "expert"... nobody else around who knows stuff better than me

(in certain specific areas, of course)

[lilac remnant]

It'd be cool to become a SME in malware analysis but I've got a long ways to go for that though. And at this point I don't know the level of expertise in that of others here.
It's funny though, like two months ago I bought the book "Practical Malware Analysis", long before anyone told me about this project coming through

[buoyant seal]

😊 i think i could write to myself cloud autoscaling subject.

• i was the only one who was able to conquer properly autoscaling our front and worker containers, wrote appropriate infrastructure code to make that possible for AWS ECS
  • which became possible because i am good enough in terraform and AWS lambda subject
  • and it synergies with my SME in monitoring system, since part of correctly tuning autoscaling requires just quering necessary metrics to do that.

Kind of interesting conversation to me to think about that, because it makes me realized how to write better my next resume version
All this stuff is i think definitely to go into resume

[buoyant seal]

So, as a thought to ponder, you could think, what are code parts you are owner of and first person to be asked about. May be there are some interesting subjects, good enough to buzzword into SME (or resume lines) too.

[lilac remnant]

Yeah I should really do my resume too... I haven't touched it since I graduated college

[pliant bobcat]

I might be an a-hole but is Google data analytics certificate focusing on diversity of lecturers more than the quality of each of them?

[prisma valley]

greetings, can anyone help me find keys/line that will find chromedriver in my file, I'm pretty new sorry, thank you for answering in advance.

[white relic]

That doesn't sound like a Python problem, but even if it is, this channel is for career related discussion. Try #❓｜how-to-get-help

[mortal mirage]

I am in the cybersecurity academy at my school. I am currently in a python programming class. Is it essential to have intermediate python knowledge if I want to have a cybersecurity career?

[crude hinge]

Hello there. I am newbie to python server.

[gritty rivet]

Useful for sure, essential maybe. It depends on everything else in your toolbox, what roles exactly you are looking for, etc.

[crude hinge]

In which text channel can I ask questions about python and my code?

[gritty rivet]

Check #❓｜how-to-get-help and #python-discussion

[prisma valley]

it's a python problem sir(not trying to discuss or disrespect you sir) it's like python can't find the chromedriver

[mortal mirage]

I am interested in going into the cyberforensics part of cybersecurity.

[gritty rivet]

This is the career channel. #❓｜how-to-get-help

[prisma valley]

this is so complex, I'll just find another way sir, no need for response, thank you.

[prisma valley]

sorry about that sir, apologies.

[near ocean]

If you're going to be using python then yes, you cant have a career with only a basic understanding of the tools youre meant to be using

[lime bramble]

Happy dasara and diwali friends

[lime bramble]

Bye,Guys I am quiting server

[cobalt moat]

How do I ask someone to be a reference?

[peak halo]

like a current or former instructor?

[white relic]

Wdym "how"
You can just... ask

[true harness]

politely