career-advice

[spark cobalt]

AI/ML research probably pays the most out of those bunch. Though for the higher echelon of salaries, it's typically a PhD required job.

Look into how much you wanna invest into college, and then see what you can get from there. There's things for BS, MS, and PhDs

[true harness]

what country?

[pastel thunder]

i feel so destroyed, i sometimes unintentionally say "yes" when recruiter asks if my experience more than 3 yr of exp in seriousBS.js

[ivory cairn]

@true harness india

[pastel thunder]

this company salary start from 0, even if its for training period, why would 4 year exp candidate be willing

[spark cobalt]

Maybe it comes from some subconscious feeling? Like to overcompensate or something. Perhaps good to talk to developers at meetups/conferences.

[shrewd quiver]

How you guys feeling about AI affecting future of programming?

[spark cobalt]

Who's programming the AI?

[near ocean]

This is just HR/recruiters being sloppy, why read so deep into it

[pastel thunder]

rejecting them

[shrewd quiver]

Idk but whoever is it's group of people. Not all the programmers 😅

[near ocean]

Who else programs but programmers

I think AI/chatGPT should be a banned keyword in this careers channel

[pastel thunder]

Also the interview that went great ghosted me, no response, so many lemons

even after 2 reminders

[shrewd quiver]

Doesn't it affect everybodys career in the future? Sorry I felt like this is the right channel to ask

[spark cobalt]

Atm, I don't see AI's potential to replace programmers. If anything, it'll help programmers spend less time on repetitive/easy work and more time on tasks AI can't complete.

[ivory cairn]

@spark cobalt same feel ai cant replace human thinking

[near ocean]

It might affect some people's career but not software devs
I guess the people affected most are people who churn out trash articles about X irrelevant subject

[spark cobalt]

Sure, but not to the extreme you're taking it. The first job AI is taking is jobs that are completely repetitive and deterministic. For example, data entry, transcribing, etc. Research already shows that there's models able to perform better than humans for these tasks.

[near ocean]

Maybe if you work for buzzfeed you should be afraid, but why would I?

[true harness]

it probably will affect certain software developers. a lot of freelance tasks are on the lower end of the skill spectrum, and these will probably be replaced by AI tools

[spark cobalt]

Freelance takes more skill though

[dreamy shadow]

Most websites, like buzzfeed, already use AI article writing

[true harness]

maybe for people like meatball, but a lot of tasks are like, "make a website that shows off my baked goods", and the end product is just a single page with some pictures on it. or discord bots

[near ocean]

Theres already tools that do that, nothing wrong with using squarespace (yet freelance still exists)

[spark cobalt]

I don't think AI will be able to write good software anytime soon. Building scalable systems, having a product vision in terms of what this product will have in 5 years and building for that, yada yada comes with a lot of experience, understanding of humans, understanding of your market/customers, that isn't necessarily datable or something you can make AI make meaningful predictions on, much less write code for

[spark cobalt]

I mostly point to people who do freelance as a way to make money to pay rent, not high school student side hustles.

[true harness]

sure. i honestly don't know the distribution of how many people do freelance as an actual job vs just for fun/side hustle

[spark cobalt]

Well, I can say for sure if they're doing Discord bots as a freelancer, probably not an actual job

I would be extremely baffled if true. Lots of international students doing these sell the same service for 10$

[summer roost]

right: freelancing is bimodal. There are highly skilled freelancers with high hourly rates competing for positions based on their depth and breadth of knowledge, and there are low skilled freelancers with low hourly rates competing in a race for the bottom to be the cheapest provider of a particular service. Some freelancers are experts, others are cheap minimally skilled labor.

[coarse torrent]

Anyone else super depressed about Chat GPT? I mean, Sam Altman is a fucking scoundrel. The guy willingly chose to release something that will decimate middle class white collar jobs

We have something that will be able to design large enterprise systems at the press of a button, as well as debug and restructure them. There will be no need for software engineers, only the architects

[true harness]

if it can design large enterprise systems at the press of a button, why aren't people doing it? companies would save millions of dollars if they fired all their senior devs, but they haven't. why? because it can't

[coarse torrent]

its going to be able to in the future is what I am saying. As of right now, it can do the work of junior and mid level developers

People are thinking about what it can do now and not worrying about what it will be capable of in the future. just look at the difference between gpt 3.5 and gpt 4

[summer roost]

it absolutely cannot - but even if it could, no one could become a senior developer without first being a junior developer

[summer roost]

and you're making the mistake of assuming linear progress. That has never been the case in the history of AI up until this point, so it seems overly optimistic to assume that it has become the case in the last few years.

[coarse torrent]

I don't know why i'm feeling the way I am. This is supposed to be exciting. I mean AI is supposed to be full of promise. But with gpt, its been all doom and gloom.

Either two scenarios will play out, a UBI is implemented and wealth is equally distributed or there will be all out anarchy due to class warefare

we are about to witness the greatest displacement in history and there's nothing that can be done.

[spark cobalt]

And just like the industrial revolution, the job market will shift into new roles and new responsibilities

Whether you catch on early or not is up to how you educate yourself and prepare for it.

[coarse torrent]

That's just not true, there might be a few new jobs but they will require a higher degree of skill and they will replace hundreds of jobs. People at the bottom wont be able to easily transition into them

[spark cobalt]

You speculate it's not true, but we never know. The same could've been said when machines were made and look at where we are now...

[summer roost]

there might be a few new jobs but they will require a higher degree of skill and they will replace hundreds of jobs
isn't that an exact description of what happened during the industrial revolution? Lots of people began to work higher skilled jobs in factories and on railroads, instead of low skilled agriculture?

[coarse torrent]

I'm just concerned about the future. The government can't be trusted and neither can the corporations. Those who are in control of the AI will reap the rewards, the rest will perish

[summer roost]

sure, it's always been better to be in control of the means of production

[spark cobalt]

Society as a whole will as well. It will be in the corporations best interest to supply their employees with AI-based assistants/etc., and will end up being in the school system, etc.

Humanity can start progressing towards increasing our output with AI across the entire market.

Note it's also the politician and the corporate leaders best interest to not push AI so rapidly as to deoccupy most of the workforce.

[delicate bane]

yknow at this point we should keep a tally lol

[spark cobalt]

We had a thread for ChatGPT thing but it's gone 😦

[delicate bane]

for this topic

[delicate bane]

nah threads expire on discord if they arent used or whatever

[spark cobalt]

It still shows on other servers for me, I think it just doesn't show on the side bar and gets pushed to a Older Thread section

Maybe a mod can check the logs to see what happened to it

[delicate bane]

[fallen zenith]

just like calculators help mathematicians

[delicate bane]

maybe threads work dif on pydis?

[spark cobalt]

I mean when we get down to it AI/ML has been heavily researched for decades, probably centuries. This isn't some new Terminator type shit.

Just if you're working at a repetitive deterministic job, I'd watch out. Thankfully most of STEM isn't this way

[delicate bane]

the lay peeps have just started being exposed is all

even though soooooo much research has led to this point

[spark cobalt]

Yep

[delicate bane]

like imagine if google never discovered the transformers architecture with their infamous 'attention is all you need' 2017 paper

[spark cobalt]

And so much more technical roles are needed to maintain and progress AI. Like how we see with DE huge demand now

[delicate bane]

we wouldnt even really be talking about LLMs

[delicate bane]

insert my usual plug for 'fund. of DE by joe and matt'

[spark cobalt]

People like Musk and whoever else signed that paper to stop AI for 6 months just don't wanna lose to competition. All fake marketed hype to support specific key corporations.

Musk owning Twitter and the government having receipts with Twitter just makes this all even more silly. Musk bought a percentage of how society understands and learns about the world.

[buoyant seal]

definitely looking like necessary book to read, but the queue of other books more needed to read so huge too
i need to build diagram of books queue to read! then i will not get confused with prioritizing what should be read next as most important
(I need somehow eliminating books from queue faster than they are getting added)

[delicate bane]

the question is 'where is the time' ⌛

[true harness]

unlimited PTO 😤

[buoyant seal]

each person has free weekends and free evenings ||(if that person is having completely no other life except his career and self studies! 🤣 )||

[buoyant seal]

I bought recently very nice tablet for reading programming books with their complex layout, reading became way easier ^_^
quite cool battery size Oukitel tablet has

all is left for my reading time competing with time for pet projects, and sometimes mental relaxing times.

[delicate bane]

reading vs. building

||vs. fun ||

[buoyant seal]

Only the first N years of career are difficult, while learning all the different technologies for a stable career next..
... Hopefully at some point in few more years I LL finish learning all the learning queue ||(and then it will grow in size even further with all new books and projects to maintain made in the process and queued for development further, and I will realise there is no end)||

[delicate bane]

||inb4 N is infinity. jk||

[vapid jay]

not for a long time maybe, the AI ecosystem will grow while development system will decrease, in number of jobs, soo devs will learn DE and the market will have a savage competition

mans like Musk, Saltman, Altman, Bezos doens't want pay good salaries and benefits, we devs are a necessary evil to them. and the best way to get rid of us is using AI.

in ten years there might be five people with master's degrees from MIT for a vacancy.
i really considering say goodbye to programming world and start a manual job that is hard to automatize

[coarse torrent]

Yes, this exactly

I should've gone into medicine or dentistry, those are much safer because theres a manual aspect to it

[spark cobalt]

I disagree, but good luck to you guys 🙂

[summer roost]

I don't think there's any manual job that's harder to automate than software engineering is.

[vapid jay]

i think SE is the easier, as AI learns from data, there is nothing more documented and more examples than codes on internet.
CVE detailing the bugs, comments, git messages

[summer roost]

I'll just leave this here again: https://github.com/golergka/advent-of-code-2022-with-chat-gpt

[vapid jay]

2022, we already have GPT4, imagine GPT-6 or GPT-10.
OpenAI have time and money to invest as they can, and slaves to write code

[summer roost]

sure. maybe one day.

[spark cobalt]

If GPT-3.5 and 4 is nowhere near replacing entry level developers, how are you so sure GPT-10 can?

[summer roost]

as things stand, AI can't replace developers. Maybe one day it will be able to, maybe it won't.

you're assuming that the tech will continue to evolve at a faster-than-linear rate, I'm assuming it won't. I think there are very good reasons to believe I'll be right - but we'll see in 20 years.

[coarse torrent]

Yup exactly, we are only on GPT 4, it's only going to improve from here on out.

A few years from now, a upper management will be able to specify the specs and chat gpt will go out and design the systems, fix the bugs, or implement the features they need at the push of a button

[vapid jay]

capitalists guys want replace us, is like a car in the beginning, as they invest they will able. they know that. we are a big payment check to they, a threat to his amount. replace us is a priority.

[coarse torrent]

i want to believe you will be right, for the sake of our jobs, but its not looking good right now

[summer roost]

it's only going to improve from here on out.
citation needed

[spark cobalt]

Capitalists benefit nothing from a society where everyone has no spending power and is unemployed.

[coarse torrent]

Look at how much better GPT 4 is over GPT 3.5.

[summer roost]

it seems pretty unreasonable to take something that can't write code today, and say that it's proof that one day something will be able to write code.

[vapid jay]

is not everyone, they just need "developers" out of work (maybe 3% of world?)

[summer roost]

a upper management will be able to specify the specs
Specifying the specs is the hard part of the job. It's the biggest part of the job. It's one of the two major things that software developers are paid for. The other is designing solutions that are maintainable and extensible.

giving the specs a the part of the job that needs a developer.

[true harness]

3% is a massive overestimate. and why would they only target developers anyway

[vapid jay]

OpenAI Codex is a product only improving anyway.

[summer roost]

it turns out that rigorously specifying requirements in a way that is unambiguous and actionable is literally what developers do every day, and is something that people who haven't been trained as developers are practically incapable of.

[true harness]

how does that answer the question?

[vapid jay]

they need small teams, not big teams, maybe the future of programming will be write a big text that specifies how the architecture should be and get the "Visual Studio Project" generated code and fix it.
that reduces the work team at least by 50%.

maybe in the future the SDK productors will already deploy the right weights to use along the selected AI.
so not to much errors

[spark cobalt]

Sure, AI helping programmers has been going on for couple of years. But they've yet to get anywhere near to completely eliminating them.

AI/ML development has been going on for probably more than a century. It seems like you think all this progression happened in the past 2 years which is completely wrong.

[vapid jay]

yeah, you are right, but ten years ago the models was explainable in simple terms like RNN, CNN, the newer models doesn't there is convergence proof yet and already is used in production. seens it's is evolving faster than ever

[spark cobalt]

Newer models such as...?

[vapid jay]

the use of RELU took a bit of time to proof, GAN's took a bit of time to proof the convergence too

[summer roost]

what makes you so certain that in a future where developers need to do half as much work, there will be half as many developers, instead of the same number of developers getting twice as much done?

[vapid jay]

debug code takes time, if it's generated bug free there is no problem

[true harness]

(which is what happened when other efficiency improving tools were made in the past)

[summer roost]

bug free code requires bug free specifications, which anyone who works in the industry can tell you do not exist

[vapid jay]

you don't need specify every line that will be generated, just ask it:
"Generate a code to concatenate data from this custom type"
no issues as nullptr exception

[summer roost]

sure. But that's not the sort of specifications that developers deal with.

and also, "don't generate a null pointer error" is an implicit assumption you've made about how the program should behave. If you don't tell the AI that, it won't necessarily implement that.

even if we imagine a future where AI exists that can perfectly understand you and can deliver code that meets all of your requirements, there's still the problem of people being very bad at giving requirements.

[vapid jay]

that assumption can be managed by IDE's, like a append. Serialization was where some devs make more mistakes.

[summer roost]

sure - and I can easily imagine that AI will help developers save time writing correct serialization code in the future.

[vapid jay]

AI understand us better than ourselves, write a texts a lot of error. Three peoples giving requirements can produce like 10 now days devs, that is what a business manager thinks when is contracting.

[summer roost]

but the problem remains: English isn't a good language for expressing exact requirements. When you try, you wind up needing legalese. If you think that senior managers will begin writing legalese to explain to the computer in English exactly what it needs to generate and what outputs wouldn't be valid, a) you have a serious misunderstanding of the job that senior managers do, and b) you wind up writing significantly more text than the amount of code that it would take to just implement the damn thing

[vapid jay]

and requirements can be generated using a intermediary language like diagrams

[summer roost]

that sounds like science fiction to me.

[vapid jay]

translate no-code to code? hmmm, already is done by a compiler

[summer roost]

regardless: even in your hypothetical future where general artificial intelligence exists and can solve the problems it is assigned with 100% accuracy, someone still needs to tell it what to do, and then check the output to see if there were unintended consequences (unspecified or underspecified behavior, logically inconsistent requirements, etc). The people who do that new job will be the people are today called software developers.

[vapid jay]

yes, you are right, but it is very likely to decrease the number of "software developers" needed to generate a project, generating unemployment.

[pine sleet]

AGIs that can easily and with 100% accuracy solve any problem seems like your archetypal AI takes over the world movie plot, TBH. Doesn't seem all that realistic (at least not in any reasonable amount of time)

[vapid jay]

it's a gradual process, will take a bit of time, (10-20 years)

[summer roost]

I asked this above, and you didn't answer: why would it lead to unemployment if it took half as many software developers to do a project, instead of 2x as many projects getting done?

[pine sleet]

I severely doubt in just a few decades.

Maybe a few centuries, if that

[summer roost]

I don't think I've ever worked on a team that didn't have projects that business was asking for and the team was saying "there's no way we can get to that this year"

[spark cobalt]

On the contrary, it makes generating projects easier, generating employment.

[delicate bane]

the business will always have more work for you. promise. lol

[coarse torrent]

The business will be the ones doing the work by feeding the AI the specs, the engineer will be irrelevant at that point

[true harness]

haven't we already talked about the spec not being precise enough?

[ivory cairn]

Anyone tell me which field to go with

Im a undergarduate with a intrest in computers

[spark cobalt]

Are you currently doing a CS degree?

[ivory cairn]

No i just passed high school that's why i want to know which CS degree to choose there are so mwny in colleges

[spark cobalt]

What are the options , typically there's only 1-2

[ivory cairn]

Ai, data science, btech,mechanical

All these are from a top tier college and i hwvent cleared it yet

Also i dont think these are all of them

[spark cobalt]

Is your interest in computers programming?

[ivory cairn]

The top tier college is CHRIST universty and please give guide in college selection

[ivory cairn]

Im not sure as i havent done much coding but as of now i like learning python

[spark cobalt]

What about computers are you interested in

[ivory cairn]

Im not intresterd in anything other as a job

[ivory cairn]

Just the normal boy stufff gaming,video editing

[spark cobalt]

You'd wanna look into doing a CS degree

So gaming, networking, OS (your phones, PCs, smart refrigerators, Tesla screen), websites, applications (web/mobile), etc. is all CS degree based (or SWE degree)

Wait I repeated websites twice. CS degree will open a bunch of doors to dozens upon dozens of different roles and specialties.

[ivory cairn]

But on which field shuld i select a cours for

[brittle tusk]

As many as you can, undergrad is about breadth not depth

[spark cobalt]

Yeah ^, because you atm don't know what CS field can provide for you, is in your best interest to learn and try many things before sticking to a few for your career

[summer roost]

You'll probably get better answers from someone who is familiar with the education system in India

[ivory cairn]

@summer roost is there anyone here though??

if yes please dm

Im thinking of going with Ai

[summer roost]

Few of the regular participants in this channel seem to be well informed on education in India, and I've figured out it's different enough from the western system that I have trouble giving advice.

[ivory cairn]

@summer roost any ideas how to find those

Sorry im a newble here so dont know a thing

[summer roost]

I'd recommend going with the most general one, and "Bachelor of Technology Computer Science and Engineering" sounds the most general to me, but I can't be certain. You might have luck looking for a Discord server for Indian engineers and software developers? I'm sure one exists

[stuck depot]

I don’t want to go in programming field , are there any options for management and partly programming in the area of computer science?

[summer roost]

If you don't want to go into the programming field, why would you want jobs that are "partly programming"?

[honest goblet]

https://www.lafosseacademy.com/student-terms

should i stay away from stuff like this?

[spark cobalt]

It may be a way to break in, but it has too many contingencies and variables out of your control that it will generally not be worth.

[honest goblet]

what do you mean

[spark cobalt]

Personally would only consider it as an option if you have no portfolio whatsoever and have no educational background whatsoever.

[honest goblet]

i dont think i will be able to pass a normal dev job so i thought about doing these just to get some experience

[honest goblet]

i mean i got a degree in physics but thats it 🤷‍♂️

[spark cobalt]

Idk the UK market well to say too much, but there's definitely many developer positions that place importance in physics knowledge. One off the top of my head would be game devs.

[honest goblet]

do you think i could win an interview with basic coding experience/project work cuz a lot of my CV shows i have a lot of "expertise" on data analysis from the degree

[spark cobalt]

Entirely dependent on what kind of projects your competition has.

I'd try to leverage that physics degree more. Developers that do have physics knowledge to the extent you do is rare.

[honest goblet]

ok i just checked indeed.com and they all want some game dev experience with c++ and unity and stuff like that ( i dont have )

[spark cobalt]

What kinds of projects do you have?

[honest goblet]

right now ive just looked at some data analysis on kaggle so nothing special and there isnt much there yet

[spark cobalt]

What kind of roles are you aiming for to begin with? Data Analyst roles?

[honest goblet]

yes some entry level role. I have 2 interests that being data analytics and software development (which i dont have much demonstratable experience)

[spark cobalt]

I'd try talking to people in the UK that are in DA positions (easy search on LinkedIn, or maybe someone here can give their advice) and try to see what projects they had. After you talk to a few people, you should have an idea of what is expected from entry level data analysts from employers in terms of skills and whatnot

Turn those skills into goals and then assess whether those goals are tangible before signing yourself away for 2 years to something shady.

[honest goblet]

the link i sent i think isnt one im applying for

i've applied to a similar scheme that trains to become a java developer for a bank apparently

[honest goblet]

sure i can give it ago, its just irritating me that i dont have work right now and im just sitting at home learning to code but there is little hope

[spark cobalt]

I think once you line up things you need to do in bite-sized goals and have everything lined up to eventually progress you to a role, it'll be much better 🙂

[honest goblet]

ok right now i will continue doing data analytics projects but i must do stuff that can help me become a software "dev" too ... do you have any ideas?

[spark cobalt]

https://roadmap.sh/ has some good roadmaps. Though I will say I think you should just focus on one thing at a time.

DS/DA and SWE are two completely different roles.

[tiny condor]

yo. very cool website. real shit. thanks for sharing queen💅❤️

[spark cobalt]

[supple fulcrum]

pink=???

[near ocean]

No, also not the appropriate channel for this

[zealous path]

@honest goblet trying to get an entry job as a data analyst?

[honest goblet]

yes

[zealous path]

Generally a STEM degree, one (or more) coding languages and a few data programs/analysis on your CV works.

I got my job through indeed (but then still had to fill it out on my company’s website).
DONT search Graduate Data Analyst, very few are actually labelled as such, just look for Data Analyst and see what the reqs are.

Industry salary wise, you’re looking for £30,000-35,000

I can send you my CV but you’ll have to ping me around 19:00.

[honest goblet]

7pm gmt?

[zealous path]

Yeah

[honest goblet]

Wont they ask for experience?

[zealous path]

You’re looking for a entry/graduate job right?

[zealous path]

If it’s an entry level job then I don’t think anyone will expect you to have previous experience.
Especially if you’re a graduate

@honest goblet might throw it in here. Wanted to be a Data Engineer but got rejected enough times due to experience and knowledge that I realised a data analyst job would be better to start with as I build my portfolio and still earn a living

[honest goblet]

So whats the diff between a graduate DA and an entry level DA?

[zealous path]

So the way I see it you have the umbrella term “Entry Level”
This will cover both Graduate and Junior devs
A graduate is (as the word says) someone who just graduated and this is their first job
Whilst a junior position is for someone with already a few years of industry experience (3-5) but not enough to be a senior dev

[honest goblet]

Ok well ill try applying to some normal DA positions

[zealous path]

Sent you my CV so you can see what I had when I got my current job

[honest goblet]

2 pages is ok?

Btw my dad and his friends work at that company so ill try to get a referral

[true harness]

one is the norm

[zealous path]

XD, what are the odds?

[honest goblet]

Haha yeah

[hearty island]

Essential Duties And Responsibilities

Work closely with the project teams to develop, maintain and manage the project plans
Participate in regular project team meetings across multiple projects and capture meeting minutes
Ensure that all projects are being scheduled and forecast using a consistent methodology
Prepare spend and forecasts during the life cycle of the project, responsible for reporting schedule deliverables to the project lead and the project team
Regularly review critical path, cost loading, schedule content, use of relationships and lag, constraints, and milestones
Provide schedule analysis and metrics to key stakeholders on a regular basis
Assist with Organizational Change Management activities
Travel 25% -50%, domestically and/or internationally as needed
Perform other duties as assigned by the reporting manager

Required Qualifications, Skills/Competencies

Bachelor’s degree or equivalent
1+ years' experience in project scheduling is ideal
Preferred Certification received through PMI or other similar organizations focused on recognition of expertise in Project Management
Experience in project, administration, planning & scheduling
Proficiency with project scheduling software, with a strong preference placed on MS Project
Requires strong computer skills to include Microsoft Office Suite & SharePoint
An understanding of critical path methodology to ensure, and communicate, timely delivery of milestone tasks
Must be naturally curious and result-oriented individuals who not only identify problems but find solutions to them
Able to work with a cross-functional team in handling cross functional initiatives, and bridging the gap between the business/operations and technology
Exceptional verbal and written communications skills to effectively work with teams, vendors, and clients from diverse backgrounds

[hearty island]

this is more what im looking for, but it’s so rare 😭😭😭

all these pm jobs require 5 years of xp

[vapid jay]

Wassup

[true harness]

omg I forgot to add logging

[summer roost]

I know someone whose favorite interview question boils down to "you get a call saying that a system that you own has failed in production. What do you do to track down the cause?"

It's pretty surprising how many people never get to "I'd check the logs to see if they can help explain what's going wrong"

[near ocean]

First step should be "assume someone's not using things properly and double check the service is actually failing"

[summer roost]

Also that, definitely.

[near ocean]

Is this for juniors? I wouldnt expect juniors to be on call

I volunteered to do triage a couple weeks ago, was pretty fun, 90% log grepping

[true harness]

ig I'll have to say "before going to prod, we need to add logging" 😔😔

[brave hornet]

Hey, I'm intermediate in python and I want to create an app (for practice)
Can anyone recommend me a good and easy framework for that? I just want to improve my skills

(I know basic HTML and CSS also)

[true harness]

fastapi

[brave hornet]

Thanks!

I'll try to learn the framework and create an app with it :).

[hearty island]

hell yeah

if only this was a full time position 😭

[brave hornet]

GGs mate!

[hearty island]

i already have an internship tho 🤔🤔🤔 for centene

[sleek egret]

yar

good luck damian_78

[hearty island]

thanks rmah

i was thinking i’d just do the interview for practice

[sleek egret]

sure. there is literally no downside

[hearty island]

besides less pay since i get paid by the hour at my current internship yeah

[blazing crag]

Cool, I work for centene too

[hearty island]

you do? nice

[blazing crag]

Yeah, but as a Java Senior Application Developer

[hearty island]

oh nice position

i got a role as a problem management business analyst intern position

[blazing crag]

I'm from Mexico. I didn't work directly for them, but they were my client coz I used to work in a consultory

[blazing crag]

Fresh

[hearty island]

yep. i wanna work as a project manager eventually so i was hoping they give me a full time offer as a pm 1 after grad

[blazing crag]

You should start learning a lot about health terminology coz it's gonna save you plenty of time

[sleek egret]

so you create problems for managers of business analysts?

[hearty island]

i actually work for a third party administrator in healthcare now, that’s probably why they gave me the position

[sleek egret]

or do you analyze business manager's problems?

[hearty island]

i think i report outages in our data flow? they weren’t very specific

[sleek egret]

or is your company in the business of analyzing problems for managers?

[blazing crag]

Oh, that's so cool, for me it was different, I hadn't work in the healthcare field before

[true harness]

how do you not know what you do

[hearty island]

i don’t know 🤷‍♂️. i made sure to ask and they were like solve problems with data

which is very ambiguous

[spark cobalt]

I'm assuming you haven't started yet?

[sleek egret]

hah, you're a true management already!

[blazing crag]

Now I want to become an Artificial Intelligence Developer, I also want to learn ML and I just watched a video about Promo Engineer and I liked it

[sleek egret]

what's a promo engineer?

[proud steeple]

That is my next step. For now I will do app on python.

[blazing crag]

Sorry, prompt

[spark cobalt]

Is there a reason you're doing something pretty much entirely unrelated to ML?

[sleek egret]

what's a prompt engineer? are those engineers who rapidly meet deadlines?

[blazing crag]

https://youtu.be/ydjRYmM19DY

[proud steeple]

Programmation is awesome. Still struggling a bit with a few Notions. But I will be alright I am stubborn XD

[proud steeple]

ml?

[hearty island]

yep. job starts may 22nd. they did mention i need to know power BI

[blazing crag]

Engineers that do nothing and make a lot 🤑

[spark cobalt]

Basically QA for AI

[sleek egret]

who's gonna pay you a lot to make up queries for chatgpt?

[blazing crag]

Machine Learning

[spark cobalt]

I guess they're aiming to work at OpenAI

[sleek egret]

wait, does anyone actually think they can get a job making up queries for chatgpt that pays good money?

[sleek egret]

I'd bet dollars to donuts that openai hires exactly zero "prompt engineers"

[blazing crag]

Yeah, it also doesn't make sense to me

[blazing crag]

I was being sarcastic

[proud steeple]

Because I need a diploma before I do Machine learning in computer.

And no don't plan on open ai. I want to create my own Jarvis 😂

[sleek egret]

and your sarcasm was highly appreciated

[true harness]

@sleek egret any suggestions?

[sleek egret]

for that you need a good foundation in the fundamentals. linear algebra, graph theory, etc

[sleek egret]

I suggest you ask questions about the questions. eventually you want to lead them to talking about how the test questions relate to what they do/have done.

this gets them talking about themselves and bragging a bit to you. and almost everyone loves to talk about themselves. doing this will, oddly enough, give them a positive impression of you.

[spark cobalt]

Yeah on LinkedIn 0 Prompt Engineer jobs. Not sure how these people got this out of their ass

[sleek egret]

"prompt engineer" is so funny. might as well say "google search query engineer"

[spark cobalt]

[true harness]

would this happen after you actually answer the question?

[sleek egret]

yes

you want to use such discussions to show that you are inquisitive and curious

[coarse torrent]

Prompt Engineers will replace software engineers, but there will be a lot less required

[near ocean]

Theres no such thing as a prompt engineer

[sleek egret]

then who creates the thing that answers the prompts?

[coarse torrent]

OpenAI

[spark cobalt]

Why would people build AI for them to be unusable and requiring this prompt engineering shit

[sleek egret]

companies don't create things, people create things

[proud steeple]

Don't openAi collect data? Isn't it better to have your own ai?

[spark cobalt]

With what data

[true harness]

so, e.g.,
them: why did you decide to do it this way instead of this way?
me: I thought x so I decided against y blah blah
then I ask something like.. "have you used y successfully before?"
?

[coarse torrent]

Right but the people required to create those things will be a lot less, given GPT software

[spark cobalt]

Accessibility has only created jobs throughout human history. Why are you so confident it'll be the opposite now

[near ocean]

Software devs are not going away
This is just fear mongering really

[sleek egret]

yes, something like that. or ask them "what would you have done?" or "how do you think I could have done this better?" as well. that is, you want to push them into the role of "mentor" or "teacher" so that they feel smarter.

[spark cobalt]

Bring a notepad 🙂

[coarse torrent]

It's not just fear mongering. AI is improving at an exponential rate. It's not about what it can do now, it's about what it can do a year from now, 5 years from now, 10 years from now

[sleek egret]

what metric are you using to make the claim of "exponential rate"?

[spark cobalt]

AI isn't just some new shit in the past 3 years. It's ongoing development for over a century.

[true harness]

icic

[dreamy shadow]

Oh yea? Beat this captcha then?

[coarse torrent]

Just comparing GPT 3.5 with GPT 4 based on the paper

[sleek egret]

ok, but what's growing exponentially?

[dreamy shadow]

Also, if you read through the paper. It's basically a sales pitch.

[true harness]

zoom 😩. and I always take notes

[sleek egret]

well, they gotta make sales or else the org will stagnate and die

[spark cobalt]

How's that growing exponentially. The main premise of GPT-4 was training more data, what actual improvements to the algorithm was there that makes this so exponential

[coarse torrent]

we are about the witness the greatest displacement in history and no ones doing anything about it. People's livelihoods are about to be ruined

[sleek egret]

was it exponentially more data, at least?

[near ocean]

not just fear-mongering
Please just drop it

[spark cobalt]

Like 1000x more data or something

[dreamy shadow]

No, I mean white paper generally are based on the tech itself, etc. It's not norm for it just to be 100% sales pitch.

[sleek egret]

wasn't that factory automation during the late 1800's/early 1900's?

or perhaps agricultural industrialization, which destroyed around 95% of existing jobs?

[spark cobalt]

Nah our greatest displacement is with something much broader than just AI lmao

CBDC moment

[coarse torrent]

Yes but there were many jobs that replaced those jobs, this time its different. Think about all the manual labor jobs that will be wiped out that people rely on to put food on the table

[sleek egret]

erc20 eurotokens?

[spark cobalt]

How is that different from replacing a bunch of farmers

[sleek egret]

only about 20% of today's jobs are "manual labor" in advanced economy nations. perhaps not even that much.

[true harness]

how is chatgpt replacing manual labor? are we sure we're using the same definition of manual labor?

[spark cobalt]

This is all weighing supply and demand. People will start gravitating towards roles that allows them to survive, not roles replaced by machines

[near ocean]

Manually editing files instead of using sed or something

[sleek egret]

you ever notice how, when people imagine themselves in ye olden days, they don't picture themselves as a peasant grubbing in the dirt? even though they almost certainly would be.

[spark cobalt]

You don't see the modern man study how to work in a textile factory

[coarse torrent]

That's very easy for you to say, i'm talking about the people with no education who are trapped in poverty

[sleek egret]

textile mills in china now use robotics and automated cnc laser cutters.

[hearty island]

anyways im reading a health insurance book to prepare for my internship

[sleek egret]

well, they're trapped in poverty because they have no education. <shrug>

[spark cobalt]

That's a good point wtf , maybe the use of our culture as a metric of history success and approaching history in those lens is the issue

[sleek egret]

that's too bad for them... but I don't really see what that's got to do with AI/ML

[near ocean]

How's gpt gonna replace them, have we taught brooms how to sweep yet? Crates how to stack themselves on ships?

[spark cobalt]

I have no education lol. I work as a SWE as a high school graduate (almost didn't graduate either)

[sleek egret]

my mother got me a roomba. it was stupid and annoying. so I murdered it.

ever see that "I made a roomba that curses when it hits things" video? it's hillarious.

[spark cobalt]

Zen, do realize that we've had machines to replace McDonalds workers for decades. Why do you think every MxDonald hasn't been automated yet?

[coarse torrent]

thats not my point, I'm just saying that not everyone had the same opportunities you did

[sleek egret]

just attending HS is having an education. did you know that in 1940, only about 1/2 of young people in the US graduated from HS?

[spark cobalt]

I applied to 4000 jobs.

[coarse torrent]

we need a UBI as soon as possible

[spark cobalt]

Society evolves. Education becomes more useful with less manual low skilled jobs.

[sleek egret]

UBI will cause social unrest, high levels of crime, an epidemic of clinical depression

[near ocean]

I see this is getting political

[sleek egret]

marxists think everything is political

[coarse torrent]

So will decimating the middle class and widening the income gap

[spark cobalt]

UBI just inflates everyone's spending power lmao, easily abused by capitalists. If everyone has 1000 dollars, no one has 1000 dollars

[leaden jasper]

This conversation is now bordering on unproductive.

@coarse torrent If you'd like to continue, then it is expected you respond to points previously brought up or provide anything substantiating your claims.

[true harness]

yes, but you didn't have to work while you were studying programming. you had your expenses taken care of while you were still living at home

[sleek egret]

that's what parents should do for children when they are young and what children should do for parents when the children become adults

[spark cobalt]

I did work, left home entirely on my own savings and 99.99% of expenses being paid by me. But yeah, while I was a kid, I had my expenses paid

[sleek egret]

I mooched off of my parents until I was in my early 20's 🙂

[spark cobalt]

Left home before I got a job too

[sleek egret]

just call me "rmah the moocher" 🙂

[spark cobalt]

My parents are the "out by 18" type people

I should've mooched more while I had the chance. I had to buy a shit ton of clothes the moment I left

[sleek egret]

I know that seems harsh now, but there's a good chance that as you hit your 30's or 40's, you'll look back and say that it was a good thing overall.

[spark cobalt]

Nah they've told me since I was like elementary. I've been prepared for this moment

[sleek egret]

do you got that going for you 🙂

[dreamy shadow]

Emotional Damage

[sleek egret]

people are more resilient than most people in the west believe.

[spark cobalt]

Parents did a lot for me to mature fast enough to take care of myself. Moving was overall pretty easy just because of life lessons they've taught me since like a baby

[sleek egret]

did you live in a cupboard under the stairs?

[spark cobalt]

Nah I didn't have those kinds of parents thankfully. I really feel that sets kids up for failure

[sleek egret]

I remember a buddy of mine's mom charged him rent during the summer when he came home from university

[deft herald]

I offered to pay my parents when i had to move back in after one of my places fell through, but i got to just contribute to some chores instead 🤷

[spark cobalt]

My sister's going to uni soon, really curious how she'll approach this. I don't think my parents will do much because they need someone to take care of the house. They're never home anymore cuz of RVing

[spark cobalt]

Yeah I think my sister will end up doing this

[sleek egret]

they will pay for her needs. you know, because she's a girl.

[spark cobalt]

They're not paying for her college that's all I know, though she got a full ride at some UCs so she should be fine

[sleek egret]

another buddy of mine has two kids, a boy and a girl. when the boy graduated college, he had to go and pay everything himself. when the girl did, she got a job in the city. then when my buddy's wife saw her slum apt, she was horrified and forced my buddy to pay the rent of an "acceptable" apt for their little girl.

[spark cobalt]

I don't think she's getting an allowance from my parents. My parents also told me to not give her any money as well

[sleek egret]

he continued to subsidize his daughter until she got married, lol.

when my little sister moved out of the city, she needed a car. so my mother was like "your sister needs a car, why don't you give her yours and get a new one?"

so I did. sigh.

[spark cobalt]

I did that. Though my sister was complaining cuz she didn't want a musty Toyota Sienna, said it looks ugly. We all had to convince her to take it

[sleek egret]

which is fine... but then she proceeded to abuse my old car. which was a bit ... annoying

[spark cobalt]

Definitely growing up she got everything she wanted, I only ever got things I needed

[sleek egret]

well yeah, but she's your sister right? so that's how it's supposed to be. <shrug>

[spark cobalt]

[sleek egret]

on the other hand, bet you had more freedom to go out and get in trouble as a teen? I certainly did.

[spark cobalt]

Idt my parents are super caring about those traditional gender roles. My mom's the breadwinner in the house for the past like 10 years, my dad just does art and chill

[sleek egret]

ever read de Toqueville's "Democracy in America"?

[spark cobalt]

Nope

[sleek egret]

you should. he was a french intellectual that visited the USA in the early 1800's. the book is a bunch of his observations about american culture. what's striking is just how much of it still holds true today. the facade (fashions) changes but the fundamentals stay remarkably consistent even over generations.

reading that book changed how I viewed the world

[spark cobalt]

Added to reading list

[dreamy shadow]

Reading list that only grows indefinitely

[dreamy shadow]

Guess we know who the favorite child was

[sleek egret]

lol, it certainly wasn't me.

[honest goblet]

ive been looking at LinkedIn for the bootcamp like company and a lot of people end up in full time dev positions in banks, should i still be wary of it? the company is "albany Beck"

[zealous path]

My friend’s dad has the money to put her through college no problem.
What does he do? “If you get straight As I’ll pay for your tuition otherwise you have to pay for the semester yourself”
Already had an issue with that but sure, wants to push her.
She gets straight As BUT one B.
Worse even 80% is A, she got 78%
What does her dad do? Be understandable?
Nope, forced her to pay for that semester out of her own money…

[zealous path]

Fintech is massive for devs. 90% of the jobs I saw were in that field

[honest goblet]

yeah so many junior java/software dev linkedin members are like Deustche bank... do you think I should go to the interview tomorrow then?

[zealous path]

Might as well, it’s fintech so should pay pretty well

[honest goblet]

i just dont want to fall for a scam company haha

[zealous path]

I’d say £35,000 for Graduate/Junior in London

[honest goblet]

yeah thats how much theyre paying and there is an option to leave the consultancy after 1.5 years

[zealous path]

Ohhhhh, it’s a consultancy

DOUBLE CHECK the pay. It might be £35,000 AFTER you leave.
Some will keep you at 20,000 during your contract

[honest goblet]

the way it was explained to me was, the client (bank) will pay e.g 40k and they take like 5k so im left with 35k

i dont mind having less pay for 2 years if i can get into a bank as a dev cuz they will probably pay a lot right?

[zealous path]

Yeah, that’s fair

Yeah, plus you’re supported by a consultancy. You get paid a shit ton whilst the bank tries to onboard you for 3 months cause they forgot

[honest goblet]

obviously placements arent guranteed but they will try to get a placement within a bank after the 12 week bootcamp

[zealous path]

One I recommend that my friend is at is The Information Lab

[honest goblet]

is it a similar business model?

[zealous path]

Yep

They train you and then lend you out

[honest goblet]

how much can i expect as a dev in a bank after i leave the consultancy do you know?

[zealous path]

No idea but my friend was making 35k after his 6months and 40k after a year

This is DURING his consultancy, so no idea how much he’ll get paid after they stop taking a cut XD

[honest goblet]

i think im gonna do it since placements on these programmes are basically guaranteed right? like i cant fail the interview

[zealous path]

DEPENDS, some are notorious for being really shit

[zealous path]

Uhhhhh….. there are a LOT of people applying. So getting into the consultancy is a nightmare

[honest goblet]

im at the final stage

[zealous path]

Fair enough, hopefully you get through

[honest goblet]

ok i think i will go tomorrow, its an assessment centre type setup but honestly i wouldnt be surprised if i got the job cuz they profit off of as many people in the programme

[raven wing]

Hello guys, does anyone know any current job openings for python developers?

[gaunt wren]

are their any legit jobs i can do from home

[halcyon quail]

Hi. The day after tomorrow I have a meeting regarding my first Python job. Although I've re-read most important stuff, I wonder if there's something summarizing all the essentials that I could read one evening. You know, brief revision notes...

[gaunt wren]

does anyone here have a dev job by being self taught and if so can you explain your journey

[true harness]

yes, many

[true harness]

ask Wilder. he will probably show up soon

[true harness]

you mean an interview?

[true harness]

yes, just search on your preferred job board

[raven wing]

Do you think leetcode is a good resource to get prepared for an interview?

[true harness]

it's one of many you can use

[raven wing]

Okay, thank you

[thorny steppe]

Hey , I am new to python and i am learning python basics through a course from udemy , but it's only the introduction for beginners I want to learn more about python and enhance my knowledge and learn something in python where can I learn from ?

[craggy prairie]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[gaunt wren]

know any?

[true harness]

pretty much anything software related, there are some people doing it remotely

[gaunt wren]

anything thats easy to pickup

[gaunt wren]

im a 19 year old dude with money problems need i continue?

[swift wyvern]

hey I need to start python and i know frontend and cpp which resources should i prefer

is angela yu 100 day code in python is best or anyother tutor at udemy

[vapid jay]

I started programming since i had 14 years, but for a long time i used my skills to develop cheats and do reverse engineering on games. I did this until i enter on university, my previous experience helped me a lot, i barely didn't need study for programming classes. A interesting thing, to work on my actual job, in programming skills, i already was capable before the university, but the study helped-me a lot on math related things (deploy AI).
In my country research based business requires degree sometimes, but a lot of jobs didn't require it, you can find one just learning by yourself and get better courses a long the time, is very important create a demonstration of your skills (a site, example ML Models)

[true harness]

i would recommend the tutorial on python.org. it's a very fast paced tutorial, but manageable if you know other languages, which you say you do

[vapid jay]

Along the time you will find the bests aspect's of yourself as developer. for example i'm really good debugging and fixing code, and i'm better planning than implementing. some people is better implementing, i have a friend that can rewrite a complex code really fast, but sometimes lacks creativity.
that is like "soft skills", in the end try stay aligned with new AI techs, that is the future of programming

[true harness]

i don't think that's what is usually meant by soft skills 🤔. those would be more commonly referred to as "hard skills"

[vapid jay]

and working on business i learned a lot, i mean. working and programming alone you are codding to yourself, that is like communicate with yourself only, work with a team is like communicate with more persons, as it your code should be more readable as you can. as a old C programmer i really love indices, but for newer patterns it is not encouraged and is not friendly, is very important learn the culture of your work, and this include code as they code.

[vapid jay]

yeah, i mean, creativity, and take the initiative to implement with care and love. i really lack motivations sometimes

[vapid jay]

and if you think it's getting hard to learn code, you can try starting on no-code or low-code platforms, they will rule in the future and you got a bonus of find something before the great wave. as you got logic experience code with lines will get easy

[sleek egret]

everyone is better at planning than implementing because planning is easy and implementing is hard

[gaunt wren]

can you gve me some links?

[sleek egret]

almost everyone thinks they're creative. almost everyone thinks they are better than average at most things that are difficult to quantify along a handful of metrics.

[sleek egret]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[sleek egret]

also, this channel is not about learning to program of python, per se. it's about careers and preparing for a career 🙂

[gaunt wren]

(not being toxic)but isnt me asking about python and what to learn so that i can eventually get a career in it coun(:

[smoky quest]

So is having healthy breakfast for the start of a great day of learning to eventually get a career 😉. But we still don't talk about breakfast

[gaunt wren]

if you want to bee super technical then yes but in this context no

[vapid jay]

not at all, i can deal with several problems, game engine development, physics simulation, a bit of shader modification, AI implementation, i can implement, but i'm slothful, and i know that

[sleek egret]

then you need to go to university and get a degree. that is the baseline for a career in software development.

after that, during the course of your career, you will learn and use a dozen or more programming languages and multiple times more platforms/libraries. such things are not truly important.

[sleek egret]

all those items require university level maths.

[gaunt wren]

i plan on going to uni for a cs degree but until then i need a job so i can pay for it🙃

[vapid jay]

i have a degree in math, is not to much as i'm nothing in math

[sleek egret]

just before and during university, I worked delivering pizzas, fixing copying machines, setting up equipment at a music venue, etc

I had friends at uni that worked in various stores, as waitresses/bartenders, as taxi drivers, and more

[smoky quest]

Depending on the country, you may want to look for regular student jobs, starting out in community colleges or local colleges, and looking into grants and student loans

[sleek egret]

these days, most CS majors can get an internship doing programming

I would have murdered a non-friend for that sort of opportunity when I was in university

[gaunt wren]

i intend on getting a job however i would like to get a job from home if possible , if not ill work at a rest or something along the lines

[gaunt wren]

hence.....

[sleek egret]

well, as the stones once sang, "you can't always get what ya waa-ant"

"but if you try sometimes, you'll find, you get what you need"

[vapid jay]

find a home office job is a bit competitive, i recommend you find a niche that has demand on it. as you are starting maybe is easier in the early find something locally

[sleek egret]

it's far far easier to get a job doing IT support as a pre-university (or even university) student than as a programmer

[vapid jay]

also you start build your networking

[sleek egret]

indeed. and that's always important.

[delicate bane]

bruh

[sleek egret]

I need more coffee

[gaunt wren]

and how do i find these type of jobs

[sleek egret]

almost every single business has someone who helps them keep their computers running

[gaunt wren]

im pretty tech savy(build computer ,circuit boards ,fixing phones and such)

[gaunt wren]

so do i check a job site or just look around and contact them if they need IT support?

[sleek egret]

it's only a "job" at larger firms (say 20+ staff). usually it's just some guy they ask to come in and help once in a while. millions of IT support consultants work around the world doing this.

[gaunt wren]

so its in person?

[sleek egret]

lots of people also do IT support for rich people who would rather pay someone a few hundred $'s than spend time reading docuementation

[gaunt wren]

its fine just asking( I dont mind it)

[sleek egret]

that would depend on the problem at hand

[true harness]

a lot of IT is physically dealing with hardware. a lot isn't

[sleek egret]

IT support is mostly about fixing problems. your clients don't care how you do it.

[gaunt wren]

as in working on the affected hardware or repairing said hardware

[sleek egret]

as in fixing the problem

[gaunt wren]

oh okay thx

[zealous topaz]

fml, i practiced sql questions thinking interview question is going to be really hard, and then got asked easy question which I tried to make it hard myself and completely screwed up. That was my second round of interview.... and the only question asked.... guess i missed that opportunity, right?

[true harness]

maybe. it depends how you tried to recover, and if you did or not

[buoyant seal]

nothing is better than pet projects to practice ^_^ then u would be more used to usage and may be more relaxed to answer stuff

well, there are things better projects where your code is reviewed by other people

[sleek egret]

take it as a lesson learned

it's very rare that people ask interview questions with subtle hidden meanings. and if you think they are, just ask. 99 out of 100 times, they'll say "huh? what are you talking about?" and you know the question is as simple as it sounds.

thing is, 2 out of 3 people won't be able to answer the simple question either

[true harness]

actually I recently was asked an SQL question I was confused about, and it was a lot simpler than I thought. maybe a similar situation lol

[buoyant seal]

my questions regarding SQL was simple and i kind of started answering in a bad way but then fixed myself and answered correctly ^_^
question was simple as this:
only 10 tickets are available, write SQL to ensure that all users trying together to buy ticket, will be able to take hold only one of them (not selling more than 10 available tickets in result)

answer was you know, just writing Database unique index to purchase table into ticket ID field ^_^ as very simple solution

Although many answers could be made for such simple question.

[zealous topaz]

my sql question was get top 10 channels with most view and I was struggling trying to get it out with row_number() over(), but interviewer wasn't satisfied and and in the end, couldn't fix the answer. He wanted without the use of windows aggregated function and didn't like the use of limit as well.

When I finally searched for it after interview I was dumbfounded. I did not need windows aggregate function at all. it's extremely simple, could've prob solved it if I was not focused too much into row_number().

[sleek egret]

just order by and then limit, brah

what's not to like about limit? you have to order by anyway so limit has near zero cost

[zealous topaz]

yeah he didn't want limit

[sleek egret]

I'd tell him he was wrong

more politely, I'd say we should look at the query plans and benchmark the approaches

[true harness]

yeah, any way you can make the db do it over your code is just gonna be faster

[cyan musk]

How many people here consume THC at their jobs?

[smoky quest]

It's a bit more complicated than that.
It's cheaper to add more application instances than a beefier DB. So sometimes, you do want to have the code do more work as to lighten up the DB so it can handle more requests

[true harness]

hmmm. I suppose. but in this instance, just comparing limit in SQL vs the equivalent in your code?

[smoky quest]

whichever frees up the DB for the next request sooner (you already guessed the answer)

[hearty island]

uhhhhhhh

goldman sachs just sent me a technical assessment 😭

hello darkness my old friend

[smoky quest]

congratulations! You cleared the first step of getting their attention!

[hearty island]

i haven’t practiced hackerrank or leetcode in months tho 😭

[smoky quest]

best time to get started

[hearty island]

and i was mainly looking for project management roles

ugh

i’m gonna bomb

fuck me

[spark cobalt]

The real 10x stack

[hearty island]

welp, bombed that oa. likely i won't hear back

i refused to cheat tho. a lesser candidate would've

[true harness]

a number of my coworkers regularly smoke. though i work in fast food, so, whatever

[hearty island]

they were definitely solveable problems, i just haven't leetcoded or hackerranked in a very long time. haven't applied for coding jobs in forever.

i only spur of the moment applied bc i thought ehhh why not

though if i do get the job (which i won't) i'd like to say that i want to lean towards project management more

[pastel thunder]

how to save time while applying and connecting to many people? i dont get much time to study specially in weekdays, when i have univ.

[deft herald]

Are you applying for internships or what?

[pastel thunder]

job

[spark cobalt]

Use autofill bots/tools for applications that make you refill everything.

Building connections are not something you wanna take shortcuts on.

Maybe you're prioritizing something that can be knocked out of your schedule. Like eating out, parties, etc. Or maybe you can improve how you study to be more efficient

[sleek egret]

if you actually track your hours, you will find that you waste 1/3 to 1/2 of your waking hours on random bullshit

high performing people use those hours productively instead

sadly, I'm not one of them.

[vapid jay]

Hey there #career-advice I need some advice on where to start and how do u proceed
During my sophomore year i got the opportunity to apply for an internship and i got accepted as well ,because of my vast knowledge in basic programming languages , we exchange words and i agree to start working after exams but here is the catch , they need a dev who has some knowledge in ML and AI (its related to the project that they are working on) so my mentor in the company wants me to learn open cv , build a tensor flow app that can integrate 3d models and also come up with a video recording app that can track basic body movements in tensor flow lite and that needs to integrated with android studio, being a web dev i am totally a 3 year old when it comes to app dev and machine learning , i am confused to what should i do first and how can i continue the same , i have around a month's time , i am open to suggestions

[sleek egret]

you should be reading a lot, experimenting a lot and learning as fast as you can. welcome to a taste of the real world where info is not spoon fed to you in dribs and drabs like in school 🙂

[vapid jay]

i am ready to read , but i dont know where to start

[sleek egret]

don't worry, your mentor is not expecting you to become an expert overnight. he's expecting you to learn the basics, fuck up and then ask questions until you get something that sorta maybe works

[sleek egret]

you start by starting. don't worry about not understanding everything right away.

[vapid jay]

i did read the open cv docs , android api's and many more , i cannot understand jack shit XD

[sleek egret]

you can't use opencv until you understand the basics of image analysis

[vapid jay]

ok go on

[sleek egret]

so learn that. the worst thing you can do is sit there hoping someone else tells you what to learn

in business lingo it's called being a "self starter"

[vapid jay]

i will do the reading part and figure out myself

but i need the right direction

[sleek egret]

good. and no matter how hard it seems, you will. you might have to learn linear algebra or signals analysis or whatever as well

learn convolutions, vector math, tensors, noise/random number theory, etc, etc

[vapid jay]

its like a 2 year old is asking someone's help so that he can learn how to walk on his own

[sleek egret]

no, you're a university student. it's like a uni student working his first "real" job 🙂

let me use an example from my own life... I was a manager of small team at a company a while back. we got a client that asked us to revise an app they had written in C#. I assigned one of my guys to do it.

he complained that he knew nothing about C# or Windows GUI programming. my response was simply, "so learn it. you have a week or two."

he thought he couldn't. but he did. he was no uber-genius either. just a reasonably solid and competent developer.

it's things like that is the reason most companies do "leet code" and other relatively challenging shit during the hiring process. they don't hire you based on the work you do 99% of the time. they hire you to be able to execute on the hard shit that happens 1% of the time.

this is what your internship mentor is doing. he's throwing you into the deep end to see whether you'll sink or swim. many people just give up and sink. he doesn't expect you to become an olympic class swimmer. he just wants you to prove that you'll try and not die.

[delicate bane]

rmah has one approach. i think you should look for similar projects. remix them, break them, etc. figure out how they work and where the gaps in your knowledge are. then fill them. you dont have much time so you wont be able to learn much of the foundational subjects that would be helpful if you were to need to train your own model, etc.. but you dont need to do that in this case. until you do.

but cross that bridge when you get there would be one online strangers advice

[vapid jay]

i guess i am just going to read read and figure out eventually , so is this road map
i am gonna learn what ml and ai is
what is open cv
what is image processing
how to build a camera recoring app
learn about ai in camera
try something related to body recognition projects
do some stuff on my own and i am gonna explore more

[sleek egret]

if you're lucky, you'll learn all that and more during your internship!

isn't that exciting? 🙂

[vapid jay]

my mentor did say he doesnt expect to do much , just build a basic camera recording app , and if u want to tweak it just integrate an ai to track the body movements

[delicate bane]

cool. i will just leave this here since your internship project reminded me of this #career-advice message

[sleek egret]

if you were working for me, I'd say "have the camera recording app done by next week. I want to see a prototype in a few days"

[vapid jay]

aight on it 🙂

[delicate bane]

[vapid jay]

i am gonna add you @sleek egret if u dont mind

[sleek egret]

here's the thing, that may seem challenging now. but I guarantee you that by the end of your internship you'll be able to hammer out that basic camera recording app in a day or two (at the most).

and if you're really sharp, in a few hours

[vapid jay]

XD , but i have my end sem exams from 17th of this month , god this month is going to be tough LOL , thanks for the advice @sleek egret really gratefull ❤️

[sleek egret]

ok fine, you have 2 weeks to do the app

[spice delta]

!pastebin

[peak summit]

anyone who's really good at python?

I need it for a university assignment.

[quartz sage]

is it possible to become a software engineer with just python ( i dont have any knowledge of html css js or the MERN stack)

[smoky quest]

Hi! If you are in high school or college age, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.
In itself, python is just a programming language, a tool. Similarly to other tools like a screw driver, what matters is not how you handle it, but what you can do with it

[smoky quest]

Hi!
There are people with varying levels of skills.
You may want to check out #❓｜how-to-get-help for getting help with your question

[quartz sage]

my degree is data science and biz analytics , im just seeing if software engineering could be a path for me since I've already doing data science stuff with python hence im used to it

[smoky quest]

It could be a path

[near remnant]

a company wants me to work with RDP (windows remote desktop) what the fk is this, they don't want to give me any equipment

[queen star]

Any freelancing advice

[spark cobalt]

Sounds like a scam...?

[near remnant]

I'm not sure but the offer is extremely low as well, the technologies would be nice and modern but working in a laggy RDP and for very low salary makes me puke.

[spark cobalt]

Sounds like someone working at a company outsourcing to a place where SWE gets paid less (or probably something similar)

There's been a few publically known instances in Silicon Valley where this was the case. And it matches the exact profile

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21043693

[near remnant]

I'm not sure if its the same thing but doesn't matter honestly. Would it be still better to work in an environment such as this than no job and looking for something? I feel like I've got baited into this during the interviews...

[spark cobalt]

I thought you had other offers what happened to them

This as a whole is shady. I'd avoid it, it may have some legal consequences like NDA if it is someone outsourcing like the way described

[lament pawn]

Is it realistic to find a job and do it fully remote from another country ?
Like does the company need to have a work permit for a person who is overseas

[spark cobalt]

Pointing to these 2 offers ^

[near remnant]

One of them was this and the other one I declined because of this. Now I feel like an idiot honestly...

[spark cobalt]

[near remnant]

I started looking for a new job lmao...luckily I'm on 3 months probation

[spark cobalt]

[near remnant]

But I've changed my mindset honestly

I won't stick to a miserable job just to have something

[spark cobalt]

Well you're much better prepared now in terms of sniffing out red flags and interviewing experience now. Nothing was a waste unless you let it be a waste

You'll be fine at this rate

[near remnant]

Yeah, you are right

[true harness]

wait, so what was this? I thought you had accepted an offer already. did you renege on that offer and go with the new offer? or is this the original offer

[inner wren]

Hey @urban grotto!

It looks like you tried to attach a Python file - please use a code-pasting service such as https://paste.pythondiscord.com

[zealous path]

Every time dos speaks, it’s something wild

[near remnant]

unfortunately, this is the original offer... i feel like i got baited but whatever i guess

[true harness]

oof

[cobalt eagle]

Hey guys! I'm still a student and I am interested in the AI field, any recommendations?

[peak halo]

A student at what level?

[heady wyvern]

i forgot how to check if a variable is str or int help

[peak halo]

try asking in #1035199133436354600, as this is the career discussion channel.

[lilac remnant]

How do you interview developers 👀

[slender jetty]

Hey all. Question. I've been working in customer service for years, and I'm done with that. I want to get into development. I recently (last week) got my PCEP certification hoping to get a job I'd like. But browsing jobs right now, I feel Python is never enough to start a career. So many jobs require lots of additional skills Any advice/words of wisdom on that?

[true harness]

carefully 👍

[dreamy spade]

This is how software teams really look?

[true harness]

find the skills required for the jobs you want, then learn those. btw, the PCEP is essentially worthless; not trying to demotivate you, but that's just how it is

[slender jetty]

I don't have a degree in computers so I thought going through certifications would be a good alternative. Would PCAP be worth something?

[true harness]

in general, there is no python certificate that means anything

[slender jetty]

that's a bit demotivating. But how to prove one's skills if I haven't worked as a dev before?

[true harness]

you already mentioned one way, a cs degree. the other way is making personal projects

[lilac remnant]

Have you interviewed before? Any tips?

[slender jetty]

And do a portfolio of stuff I made for employers to look at?

[true harness]

i haven't interviewed anyone, no

[true harness]

yes. you also have some previous experience you can tangentially mention, that hopefully means you have soft skills

[near ocean]

No

[dreamy spade]

Oh wow. How is this not accurate?

[near ocean]

First off, its from reddit

I dont have much experience but none of the teams i've been part of looked anything like that

[craggy wave]

There are some environments for which your diagram is partially accurate. In my current environment, we have an organizational structure that kinda looks like this, except that "DevOps" isn't some weird separate category. The entire team is a DevOps team.

Marketing is not relevant to the projects we work on, so that part does not exist

But, yeah, there's a project manager and a PO, and there are iterations of design, front-end and back-end development.

It's just not in such a "stage"-like way; they inform each other all the time

There are a lot of other ways in which you can represent the general organization, though

And too many ways to represent the process and the team as well

There's also no mention of "architects" in this diagram, and you probably can't avoid architects in large organizations

[near ocean]

If it looks pretty its probably not accurate
If i compare our actual organisational charts at work to this...
Well first of all they dont exist but if they did it'd be a jumbled mess of arrows and boxes

[hearty island]

i was so excited, i got a call about a business analyst position

aaaand then they mentioned a training program i'd have to pay for 😔 so i told them i wasn't interested and hung up

[sleek egret]

pay for, lol. yeah, obvious scam there.

[hearty island]

i was like what kinda fraud bullshit is this and then hung up

[rare edge]

what do you think of my code? 🥺

[near ocean]

What about the experience you'd be getting working at your slave master's workplace

[hearty island]

my who

[sleek egret]

your code exhibits beautiful symmetry

[rare edge]

ikr its so clean

[hearty island]

@near ocean you mean my current internship?

[elfin wigeon]

science or commerce ?

I like both

[near ocean]

I was talking about this scam position you were called about

[hearty island]

oh hell no

damnit, rejected from deloitte

[peak halo]

you don't wanna be a deloitte bro anyway

[near ocean]

Back home the big 4 are seen more as a cushy non-job you get in via nepotism instead of actual work

Also theyre wrapped up in cheating allegations so thats no good either

[hearty island]

but i need a job after i graduate 😦

it’s becoming depressing. i’m scheduling appointments with career counselors tho. we’ll see what happens. i have one today

[sleek egret]

ask them if they've ever worked outside of academia

iow, find out if they're marxists or not

[peak halo]

what if they were?

[sleek egret]

then their advice may be suspect because they might lack personal experience

[hearty island]

well i’m asking for resume advice and job hunting. if they just say “apply on handshake” i’m gonna be pissed

[true harness]

we're not good enough 😭😭😭

[elfin wigeon]

bro, even if you don't graduate, still you need a job

[fervent grove]

guys anyone know what to look after in an recommendation, any wording or so one should include?

[hearty island]

true

[sleek egret]

jobs are for chumps. don't be one of the exploited, be one of the exploiters!

[peak halo]

what kind of recommendation? like a letter of recommendation that someone else writes to recommend you?

[fervent grove]

indeed

[sleek egret]

generally speaking you want recommendations that are positive

[fervent grove]

🗿

[peak halo]

what matters more than the content of the letter is who wrote it. the main point is to show that someone (who the recipient of the letter probably doesn't know) thinks highly enough of you to write one at all.

[fervent grove]

good point, i just come to ask cause in germany there is wording for a "normal" job reference

[sleek egret]

germany is only 1% of the world's population, so ...

[deft herald]

Somewhat accurate for my job - but we don't have a ui/front end, so it's all "backend". And then that block is actually about 50 sub-teams of 5-10 people. Then the QA block is "testing", of which there are another 3 pretty large teams handling testing of different areas

[fervent grove]

can u stop troll? 🙂

[sleek egret]

huh? how is that a troll?

[fervent grove]

referring to ur prior responses, if thats not ur intention its fine

[sleek egret]

?

[fervent grove]

that an recommendation should be positive is only natural and if im a german who gets and recommendation i mainly will work in germany therefore i am specifically interested in that

[sleek egret]

jeez, do I really need to spell it out? your question was incredibly vague. how can you expect reasonable advice when you provide zero context?

as you probably now realize, how such things are done vary by culture. you did not specify either what culture you're from nor what culture the recommender or recipient would be.

[fervent grove]

it was a general question so i was not looking for tailored answer

[sleek egret]

yes, and the general answer is literally "something positive"

[fervent grove]

its ok u got a point, thanks for ur suggestion!

@zealous path

[zealous path]

Counterpoint: commit commercial fraud, steal money from the exploiters
(For legal reasons this is a joke and I would never consider syphoning £342,421 from my employer over the course of 2 years, 7 months and 12 days)

[sleek egret]

isn't that itself essentially a form of exploitation? and that amount is oddly specific...

[hearty island]

goddamnit, they recommended handshake

[zealous path]

👀

[true harness]

did you ask about your resume?

[hearty island]

i did, they recommended i change some things around and integrate more of my projects into my resume. the appointment was only half an hour.

[true harness]

I've never had a good experience with college career people

[hearty island]

i came out of that feeling annoyed and frustrated

i'll come back on thursday for another half hour appointment

[true harness]

why will it be different?

[hearty island]

different counselor

i must be missing something, seems like there's no times next tuesday or next thurday for resume review

maybe they just didn't set up the times yet

[dreamy shadow]

You can always post it here

[zealous path]

[inner wren]

Hey @hearty island!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[zealous path]

@hearty island take a screenshot and show as pic

[hearty island]

it needs a lot of work lol

[zealous path]

I was gonna say “why didn’t you blackout” but Damian is smarter than me

[hearty island]

yeah i made a copy and just removed details. looking for project management roles. haven't found much success 😔 .

[true harness]

I have a latex thing I toggle to anonymize

[zealous path]

Project Management Intern…
USA will really exploit anyone these days

[hearty island]

jackshit intern

[zealous path]

Please tell me you get paid?

[hearty island]

$20 an hour

[zealous path]

Ok, at least it ain’t free.
Don’t know what average in NY is but I hope it’s good

[hearty island]

average is $15

[true harness]

what does that even mean

[hearty island]

this is an example of one of the projects i did at the internship

[true harness]

isn't the minimum 15

[hearty island]

sorry yes minimum. been a long day.

[zealous path]

When I hear Project Management anything I think team lead or even higher doing what you’d expect: leading a project from inception to completion.
If Damian is actually being given those responsibilities then he better get paid well.
But he did say he does “jackshit” so take it as you will.

[hearty island]

i didn't really get to do this from start to finish. my work was primarily haggling people to do theirs. actually that's like all of my work. just bothering execs to make sure to do their own work and constantly reminding them. technically more of a secretary than anything.

hopefully centene doesn't do me dirty like this

[sleek egret]

no no, you "coordinated people's activities to streamline operations and minimize disruptions"

"thereby increasing productivity and improving quality of work product"

if it wasn't for you, everything would have degenerated into a quivering mass of rotting garbage!

[hearty island]

my career counselor said to try to integrate this into my resume, but idk how

i wish they were less useless. all they said was oh you're doing great idk why you're so worried

[true harness]

that's how they are

[hearty island]

so any ideas on what to fix? they said to keep my education up top, remove my gpa, ... then add the programming/analysis skills second, and third the work experience and then replace the projects with the projects i worked on during my internship.

[true harness]

your gpa is fine

[hearty island]

yeah i didn't see why they said to remove it. they said i could be screened out of apps

[true harness]

that's ridiculous. any number above like 3 is fine

[hearty island]

just further goes to show that she didn't really know what she was talking about

and what meaningful work can even be accomplished in half an hour only?

[fervent grove]

HR jobs are unnecessary change my mind

[dreamy shadow]

3.5-4, though tbh Idk if I would include if not like 3.8+

[true harness]

do you want to filter a thousand applicants to 1?

[fervent grove]

by my experience they do not "filter" really good, but generally speaking big NO

[true harness]

because you always get filtered out? regardless, they serve an essential function

[hearty island]

i'm debating hiring someone to help me with my resume 😦

[fervent grove]

no 🗿 , no, no 😦 but srsly i never hear good about em

[hearty island]

but that shit's so expensive

[balmy mural]

I've generally only had good interactions with our company's HR

[fervent grove]

i did it once was not a good idea for my personal case

[balmy mural]

And I definetly don't want to be doing their job

[fervent grove]

maybe im just super negative biased

[fervent grove]

some companies offer free help with the intention to get u as a client afterwards (so they do bare minimum id say)

[hearty island]

anyways, if anyone has any suggestions for my resume please let me know. i personally think the bullets under my current internship are a bit weak and maybe that's what's putting recruiters off.

the career counselor was like it makes sense you're not getting hired for full time roles yet because your graduation date is 2024

[true harness]

if you're going for project management roles, what's the point of the projects you have listed

[hearty island]

so i should add something like this?

[true harness]

isn't that work experience? yes that should be added

[hearty island]

in the projects section?

[true harness]

it's work experience isn't it?

[hearty island]

yes. i think it makes more sense than having a heart attack model, landmark model, or migration model there

[hearty island]

added the interactive voice response model project. thoughts?

[smoky quest]

Show, don't tell.
There isn't much in their descriptions of what was interesting or cool about it

[rapid flicker]

[hearty island]

well an ivr or interactive voice response model is cool because it's convenient, users can use their voice instead of clicking buttons on a menu. it routes people to the right department quickly and effectively, it saves the company the need for more live service agents, and it can handle lots of calls. idk what to put in the resume tho.

[smoky quest]

I was referring more to the "how" you made it happen.
It's like if you made something better than chatgpt and wrote "made an AI model for text input". Not very sexy nor enticing, isn't it?

[hearty island]

but i didn't really make it happen, all i did was force teams to coordinate their meetings 😦

and i took notes

[smoky quest]

so what's your value added there? What has happened because of you? What would have happened without you?

[hearty island]

i didn't add any value. that's the problem.

[smoky quest]

If you are unable to justify your value there, you would have a hard time in an interview

[hearty island]

it's not like i had executive control of the project, they just conducted the meetings with me sitting there on zoom

so i guess i shouldn't use it for my resume?

i can't just say i "took notes"

[sleek egret]

I think you need an agent

[hearty island]

an agent?

[sleek egret]

yes, someone to play up your strengths and market you and sell you

[smoky quest]

And?
From a purely management pov, if you had no value, then that was a waste of resources.

As a rule of thumb, project managers have zero power.
But there are tons of ways to add value without having power

[sleek egret]

if you want power, you have to take it. it's very rare that people will just give you power.

[pastel thunder]

just slap some dudes, here and there

[sleek egret]

channel your inner conan

[hearty island]

i literally don't know what to write.

yes the internship was a waste of company resources. they gave me nothing to do 90% of the time

[smoky quest]

was it some employment or internship?
If the latter, you can play up the learning rather than your value added

[sleek egret]

that's not a very good strategy. it shows a lack of control. better is to do something like, ask people to leave, then close the door. then scream and rant very angrily, so others can year you. then calmly ask people to re-enter.

[hearty island]

internship

[sleek egret]

this shows that 1) you can become very angry yet 2) you usually can maintain control

[smoky quest]

and always walk fast with a stack of papers, looking busy

[sleek egret]

lol. it's best when you pair that with taking a bit of time to listen to someone's trivial personal problems. it makes them think you're willing to sacrifice your own time for them.

[hearty island]

idk what to write/add 😔

[sleek egret]

it's just manipulation 101. watch for the signs in effective managers.

[pastel thunder]

learn stuff that you would have done if it was a good internship, add it to resume, no one would know, and if you actually have learned it/done it, ITS NOT WRONG

[sleek egret]

@pastel thunder is spot on

[pastel thunder]

I do it all the time

[hearty island]

so lie

i don't know how to write about it

[sleek egret]

don't lie. for example, you could say "I learned a variety of techniques to get people to do things without having any formal authority over them. for example, ..."

[hearty island]

something like the first bullet under "GROWTHSI"?

"Led evaluation and creation of a new IVR system; spearheaded a cross-functional team (Technology, Business, Development, Management) to implement the system; successful adoption led to reduction in call center growth by 25%?"

what do we think?

[smoky quest]

be ready to be asked how you did it, what were the problems, what was the outcome, any conflicts, any friction to make it happen, etc.

[hearty island]

but is that better?

rejected from jp morgan chase for project execution 😦

[spark cobalt]

Spearheaded a cross-functional team to implement a new IVR system which upon successful adoption, led to reduction in call center growth by 25%.

The semicolon thing is funky for one bullet points imo. Probably even more ways to make this more concise.

If you're aiming for a more technical role, I'd put the new IVR system first before the spearheaded a cross functional team

It's good content wise, probably just a better way to make it read more flowy and concisely

[hearty island]

there was also a project for cobra registration but idk how to write about it

[brittle seal]

Hy guys, can u give me best YouTube channels about python

[smoky quest]

making progress

[smoky quest]

Hi! This is the wrong channel for this type of question.
You may want to ask #python-discussion or check #❓｜how-to-get-help

[delicate bane]

smartsheets is def one of the tools i see the project managers at our company using a ton. any way to elaborate on that bullet point?

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

[hearty island]

i’ll see what i can do

[sonic mica]

I heard going to car meets is a pretty good way to find and connect with tech employers, potentially landing you an offer, is that true?

[true harness]

what's a car meet

[zealous path]

Parking lot/large area where people meet up to show off their cars

[zealous path]

If you really want to connect with people in tech, go to a furry convention

[true harness]

uhhh. i've never heard of that being a way to find tech employers. i think they would mostly go to tech meetups

[delicate bane]

[near ocean]

Fast and Furious at product managers

[sonic mica]

Hm, maybe that's a better way, a large percentage of car enthusiasts work in tech, a higher percentage for furries ig

[delicate bane]

what the heck. why not just go to tech meetups

[true harness]

yes, but all the people going to tech meetups are either working in tech, or wanting to work in tech

[delicate bane]

i dont understand

[zealous path]

Too simple

[sonic mica]

Lots of competition, a car meetup would probably be a lot more chill

[delicate bane]

no thats not how that works

[zealous path]

Do you drive a conventionally nice car?

[true harness]

or...no one wants to talk to you about tech because they just want to drive their car or whatever you do at a car meet

[near ocean]

Do you go to tech meetups and talk cars?

[sonic mica]

No, gonna buy a used bmw 335i coupé and tune it soon

[delicate bane]

this is like our common analogy about the hard mode path

[zealous path]

Would people want to talk to YOU at a car meet then?

[true harness]

i really don't see the point. at a tech meetup, employers are literally there to talk to you. 100% of the people there are going to want to talk to you about tech. a lot of them will be employers

[sonic mica]

I dont know, but my objective is to walk up to people, not be walked up to, why would a rich employer care enough to walk up to me (even if I drive a pretty nice car)

[near ocean]

Walk up to booths in tech meetups?

[sonic mica]

Ye, you've got a point

[true harness]

why not do that at a tech meetup. there is a 100% chance the person you're going to talk to is an employer. because they're advertising themself as an employer. you don't get that at any other kind of meeting

[buoyant seal]

🤣

[lean breach]

Does anyone have first hand experience around how salaries compare between Edinburgh and London?

[hearty island]

i'm trying to write about this in my resume but i'm unsure how

[hearty island]

"Consolidated Omnibus Reconciliation Act Administration System: Created a system that improved accuracy by 30% by reducing risk of errors in eligibility determination, enrollment, and reporting."

[spark cobalt]

Context (time and place) is super important. These people are not there with the mindset to think of work lol... Also, I'm assuming you're thinking business owners are the ones going to these shows (idk the statistics), but in reality, these people aren't responsible for hiring for the position you're seeking for.

[hearty island]

anyone have any ideas?

[spark cobalt]

Wrong place for this dude.

[spark cobalt]

Is this Consolidated Combobulator stuff a commonly known thing in your field?

[hearty island]

apparently, it is. it's abbreviated as COBRA

[elfin wigeon]

:chad:

[smoky quest]

As a reviewer, I care about what you did in all of that

[spark cobalt]

Use the abbreviation if it's commonly known. Otherwise you're just shitting out big words.

Seems like you use COBRA everywhere else too

[hearty island]

but that's the problem i didn't contribute much to the project. just sat there taking notes like i did for the IVR

this is really bad

[hearty island]

yeah i wasn't sure bc my counselor said it might be a good idea to unabbreviate it

[smoky quest]

so, as a reviewer, why are you showing it to me?

[hearty island]

because then i have nothing to show for a 7 month internship

[smoky quest]

It may be better to not show anything than show something that will get you destroyed

[hearty island]

so just show nothing from the entire internship?

[smoky quest]

as if it never happened. I know it sucks, but if you can't talk about what you did or learnt there, it just make you look bad

[hearty island]

well then that's 7 months of nothing

[smoky quest]

How would you expect an interviewer to react to that? What would they be impressed with?

People don't get rewarded for showing up

Like, try to put yourself in someone else shoes. If you were shown this from another candidate not-named-damian_78, what would you learn about them, their skills or their knowledge? How would that demonstrate they would be able to contribute value to your project?

And if you were to ask them questions about it and they tell you they did nothing of value. What does that tell you about everything else in their resume? What impression would that leave on you?

[smoky quest]

If I recall correctly, you are graduating in 2024. That's still plenty of time to get another internship. Although it's quite late for this summer

[true harness]

i'm not seeing many ads anymore. there's only like a month left before summer. most of the hiring things i'm in are finishing in the next like 2 weeks

[smoky quest]

yeah, they may need to aim for a winter internship or something

[true harness]

i'm actually somewhat confused about your situation. you're working part time while in school full time? is this a remote job? and if you're not doing anything, why do they keep paying you?

[hearty island]

i'd learn nothing from them about their skills or knowledge. they'd demonstrate nothing of value. if i asked about their projects and they demonstrated nothing, i'd reject them on the spot. it tells me that everything else in their resume is basically bullshit and leaves a terrible impression.

[hearty island]

well idk if the centene internship will even do anything for me

[hearty island]

i work part time during school. and i don't know why they pay me. they make fun of me during work that i do nothing yet they give me nothing to do.

[smoky quest]

you may want to ask for tasks or to be involved in some ways to help.
They may pay you to help you with your career and just be nice people

[hearty island]

i have asked for tasks and more responsibilities, but this is all they do

it's such a frustrating situation.

i have no experience then in project management, at least nothing i can talk about.

[smoky quest]

you may want to have a conversation with them about it. How you were trying to recap your project management skills and use concrete examples but haven't been able to come up with any. And how you would appreciate their help in getting more experience in that area

[hearty island]

but i already did that, that's how they gave me that list of projects... but i can't use any

[smoky quest]

you are gonna have to go deeper

[hearty island]

wdym?

[smoky quest]

you will need to ask for demonstrating skills

[hearty island]

i’m going to ask the president tomorrow and be like hey, i have a resume review for extra credit. id like an accurate description of my role in the IVR project as well as the cobra registration project so i can populate my resume with it

[vapid jay]

@vapid jay dm, your dm are closed

[hot nebula]

@vapid jay Please don't fall for any scams. This is highly sus

[vapid jay]

oh didnt realize that. Got it

[pastel thunder]

They need 5+ year exp. as ML and Full stack dev as well. wonder if they will find anyone, lol

[smoky quest]

why not?

[pastel thunder]

the combo, is rare isnt it?considering the 5

[smoky quest]

I would venture a guess they would be more interested by the applied side of AI/ML rather than the theoretical one

[pastel thunder]

main role says FullStack, they need more stack but also ML with 5 year

[summer roost]

Sounds like they want someone who knows PyTorch and JavaScript.

Doesn't seem hard to find someone who has worked more than 5 years and done frontend, backend, and AI/ML over the years.

[pastel thunder]

also the salary in entry level. so...

[smoky quest]

as in?

[lost flint]

Were they just generic algorithm questions or skewed towards finance?

[pastel thunder]

lets forget about it

[near ocean]

When you post things to complain and then refuse to elaborate on details it sounds like youre manufacturing drama and lying to us

[pallid wigeon]

dramaaaa

[spark cobalt]

Been getting a lot of those lately

Sure the market is bad, but too many people trying to distort reality to validate themselves

Works been intense lately wew. Something I found was that headphones really increased my productivity. Completely eliminated all my distractions and keep me focused.

[near ocean]

At my last exit interview I was told that they were disappointed in my attempts to socialise with work colleagues because I would put my headphones on and get things done instead of chat shit in the office

But it was an exit interview they might have just been salty, idk

[spark cobalt]

My workplace is super social, too distracting. But I've been very open with talking to people when they need to talk to me. My socialising didn't change too much which is nice.

But maybe it's because my output is so much higher with headphones there's more reasons to talk idk... Headphones are fucking amazing

Noise cancel and the entire workplace is silent. Feels like a horse with the blinds super nice

Person to the left of me is a manager too, and she always has someone at her desk doing some talking cuz she's new it's super super super distracting

As a side effect, my discord usage has drastically decreased by more than 60%

[near ocean]

I used to love open plan offices in uni, but the people I hung out with were interesting (to me anyway)
Random office people are not

The first time i had lunch with my colleagues was on my last day

[spark cobalt]

Went to walk to a cafe with one of my colleagues yesterday for the first time. Maybe it's the person I went with but he was very closed off which kind of ruined the fun for me at least

I just wanna learn about others 😦

I really hate small chat, there's a lot of that here....

[white relic]

I organized casual dinner + a movie after work with a group of coworkers yesterday. Worked really well

But I had to pressure people a little to commit to coming lol

[vapid jay]

do it a regular thing

[white relic]

that's the idea

[spark cobalt]

There's like 10 Chinese people in my company, so one of them set up a lunch to celebrate Lunar New Year, but even then they all came from China/Taiwan and I was born in America and it's hard to relate to any of my coworkers

[white relic]

finding cheap stuff to do helps incentivize people

lot of movie theaters have something like $5 tickets on a given weekday

[spark cobalt]

Almost all of them were born in all sorts of countries and self segregate them off

[white relic]

relatable

[vapid jay]

i dunno if its so much the cheapness of it, but the regularity, specially if you can build a sort of stable group

[spark cobalt]

My coworkers definition of fun isn't my definition of fun. It's hard to ask parents to do college fuck around and find out stuff

And the few other juniors in the company are too serious

[white relic]

Its hard to get people to break their routine even a little. Gets harder with couples and older people.

[spark cobalt]

Yep 100%

I know 1 person in the entire company that fits that category, but he's pure workaholic 0 fun type of guy

He didn't come to our LNY party

[white relic]

I'm fortunate to be in the opposite scenario, older than most of the office and lots of free time

[spark cobalt]

It's peaceful, so I can't complain. No strings, no people responsibilities

Maybe I'm just on copium

[white relic]

Sometimes it is like that.

[spark cobalt]

Oh I have data on second youngest person at my company, 8 years older.

[spark cobalt]

I still get to have fun, but a lot of it is myself. Though I'm doing a road trip around America with some of my HS friends in August which is gonna be fun

I love college kids, they're so fun

[white relic]

That's great! Love that kind of thing. Did a road trip between my last job and this one with some friends I hadn't seen in years, it was super fun

[spark cobalt]

We're going East back to West coast in a huge circle gonna be sick

[harsh river]

||what are yall arguing about now||

[spark cobalt]

Why KRRT is a poopoohead

[white relic]

how ChatGPT is taking over all jobs

[harsh river]

||oh, pygen has leaked into career-discussion then||

[spark cobalt]

Btw trent do you know what happened to that ChatGPT thread

[white relic]

I didn't notice either

it's not hidden anywhere I can see

[vapid jay]

what is pygen?

[harsh river]

||#python-discussion||

[vapid jay]

oh

[chilly night]

hello everybody, I am new to the discord channel and also to python. I have a question but a little background, I am new to python, been doing some basic things with it trying to understand it. I don't really have a decent background with programming in general. The question is, since these AI's are popping up everywhere and me being a noob to coding and programming in general, is it worth it to even learn how to write code or is it better to understand the meaning of the code since AI does it instantly nowadays. I also don't have a guideline, well, that can be done through Chat-GPT as well bu, let's say I have some complications with it. What would you guys suggest me doing with Python atm? I at least want to know one thing about programming.

[near ocean]

Hm, could have sworn we had a chatGPT pin

[spark cobalt]

Had a thread but it poofed

[vapid jay]

id say learning to code and understanding the meaning of code are kind of the same thing

[chilly night]

yeah they are of course but all of the new things that are coming up constantly, I can't seem to keep up with them

[near ocean]

You're a beginner, it's natural to feel that way

[sudden rover]

Hi guys!! I have a technical interview (my absolute first one) tomorrow for a junior test automation engineer. I always worked as tech support but I started studying 2 years ago. Does any of you have some advices? What should expect?

[marsh wind]

I strongly dislike open spaces... I much prefer to be able to work in a quiet calm environment. If you gotta talk about something for more then 5-10 min - for gods sake, go to meeting room, don't just all stand around your desk

[buoyant seal]

sleep well ^_^ you were preparing 2 years, one day will do nothing.

[true harness]

ngl I don't remember a thread

[hearty island]

no

i think it was just hackerrank questions

[pulsar smelt]

Hello Guys

I need someone can help me to develop interface for a python project

[near ocean]

Not the channel for that, have you tried #user-interfaces or #python-discussion ?

[hearty island]

“TPA Licensing Project: Managed renewals for all 50 states, ensured compliance with standards, tracked renewals with Smartsheet, communicated daily with attorneys to ensure compliance documentation, and renewed all 50 states on time.”

i can’t talk to the president today bc he’s going on a flight

[true harness]

you report directly to the president ? don't you have other managers above you?

[hearty island]

it’s a very small company

the president’s office is like 5 steps away from where i sit

[forest jungle]

I have a new pet peeve when it comes to applications, and that's companies who try too hard to make their rejection letter different and to "let me down slowly/softly". I got one today and I literally had to read for almost a full minute to figure out what the email was about.

Like, cmon, just say 'We have decided to move on with other candidates" so my filter can catch it rather than wasting my time.

[true harness]

Thanks for reaching out. The team currently has an offer out to a candidate. If there is a change in the situation and the candidate does not accept I will let you know. Have a good day!
😔

[hearty island]

sorry to hear that

keep applying, you’ll get something

[true harness]

well, hopefully this year 😔. the annoying part was i didn't even get to the technical interview yet!

[hearty island]

it’s a numbers game, eventually someone will let you reach that technical interview part

[spice falcon]

I work as a programmer, I solved all problems with the help of
now i need to learn python to edit autotests any people with experience ?: help me where to start

[hearty island]

i at least get rejection letters from the jobs i apply to

[near ocean]

With the help of?

[zealous path]

Please do not say the cursed word

[near ocean]

😈

[true harness]

try the tutorial on the docs page

[pastel thunder]

It wasnt worth the time, and what will I get from lying lmao.

[near ocean]

Sympathy?

[pastel thunder]

Not gonna help!!

[near ocean]

All I'm saying is it doesnt look good on your part to hide information, its been done in this channel before

[pastel thunder]

I understand, many candidates just get frustrated and annoyed by the repeated rejection.

[true harness]

well maybe they should just get better

[near ocean]

Sure, many candidates also randomly apply to job ads they would never get in a million years and then complain on social media however

[true harness]

that recently happened here

[near ocean]

There was an example of that this week iirc

[pastel thunder]

I feel a bit attacked here, I have an offer, just trying to get better, lmao

[zealous path]

whistles non suspiciously

[hearty island]

we’re not talking about me right 😭

[zealous path]

The more jobs you apply to the more chances you have.
Yeah some are way above my head but shrugs screw it might as well.