career-advice

[buoyant seal]

some interesting article about self study person from zero, which was able to get a job i was kind of impressed and stored this article saved to some git repository for years 😁 currently cleaning up PC due to time to reinstall to newer OS and discovered article back
https://www.reddit.com/r/learnpython/comments/ctkypf/im_100_self_taught_landed_my_first_job_my/

[quiet pilot]

Hey guys, can anyone tell me how to start a career in data science
I’m doing my computer science engineering rn

What should i do in python for data science

[buoyant seal]

https://github.com/MrMimic/data-scientist-roadmap
https://github.com/Moataz-Elmesmary/Data-Science-Roadmap
github roadmaps, two quite cool ones

[buoyant seal]

• feel free to go through more dedicated python roadmap in addition
  https://github.com/amaargiru/pyroad

[quiet pilot]

Wow
Thanks a lot!

[buoyant seal]

u a welcome, also visit https://kaggle.com as a source of inspiration (and data examples) for different projects
some stuff like handwriting digits recognition challenge can be made for starters from there

theory + practice + amount of dedicated time + a bit of luck = success

[quiet pilot]

Omg
Thanks a lot!

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

You either uploaded a .txt file or entered a message that was too long. Please use our paste bin instead.

[uncut thunder]

has anyone built a career in modeling and simulation??

[leaden jasper]

Yes, do you have a specific question?

[uncut thunder]

yes ,what kind of simulations do you do and do you use only python

[leaden jasper]

I work with different dynamics simulations, like mechanical components doing something. Previously I did continuum level thermofluid process simulations, ranging from 1D to full-up CFD. I don't only use Python, but I write the bulk non-solver parts in Python right now

[uncut thunder]

ok thank you so much

do you recommend something to start with,cuz i'd love to learn that i dont know where to start

[leaden jasper]

Having a good knowledge of core computer science/programmer concepts is a start. Otherwise for the kind of simulations I do, an engineering degree is pretty much required. You need to have a very solid and very good understanding of the physical phenomena behind the thing you're modeling.

[sleek egret]

pretty sure that's called "mechanical engineering"

possibly overlap with "structural engineering" and even "civil engineering"

[leaden jasper]

I've chosen my words for a reason. It's not related to civil or structural engineering at all. It does fall within the typical mechanical engineering discipline but it's not a required degree to do what I do considering I don't have a mechanical engineering degree yet.

[bright pagoda]

hi

[hearty island]

hello

[vapid jay]

im da biggest bird

[smoky quest]

hi and welcome!
Is there a question or topic for this channel?

[dim sapphire]

Awesome post @buoyant seal . Very helpful

[vapid jay]

Hey ! does anyone else own a web design/dev agency here?

[mossy creek]

I learned python basics and some python modules

can someone guide me for professional python programmer

and how can i use python programming skills in hacking

[west badger]

Which books should I get for my TOEFL?

[pastel pike]

Hello, when I create a @bot.command it works perfectly, but as soon as I create a @bot.event underneath it, it removes my commands from the bot command, do you know why? Thanks in advance

[white torrent]

This may be one for #discord-bots

[river badge]

get a degree

[west badger]

I have some questions
1.Which book should I get for my TOEFL?
2.Which book should I get for my SAT?
3.Which book should I get for my ACT?
4.Are these the only exams I need to do for US universities??

[true harness]

1. no idea
2. it doesn't matter that much, as long as it has practice tests
3. see 2
4. the specific requirements change between unis. have you talked to someone about being an international student? I'm not sure if anything's different

[buoyant seal]

1.Which book should I get for my TOEFL?
i liked Cambridge ESOL - IELTS 16 General Training
it has training for almost all sections

[shut turret]

Is there a way to check speaking skills without paying 200$ for IELTS?

Just to be clear. Most likely I would have to pay, but not 200

[river badge]

if youre enrolled in a university they might offer free certificatesfor students

[karmic helm]

Heyy!!! I want someone to guide me what to do next in my software engineering carrier can someone help me out?

[sour tartan]

help us help you: where are you in your path?

[karmic helm]

I'm currently looking for internship in software engineering

[daring pike]

dwa#d#aw#d#a#d

[karmic helm]

I know the basics & intermidate things in python

I've also done internship in html css js& bootstrap

@sour tartan

[sour tartan]

what's the largest project you've written?

[true harness]

if you've already done an internship, you're probably in a pretty good spot, all things considered

[slim gull]

What's everyone's thoughts on AI replacing them?

[river badge]

wont happen

[slim gull]

Out of curiosity why not? Not saying you're wrong, just I hear some people say it will

[river badge]

I dont have time for a long answer rn but I dont think its likely that AI will be able to perform really complicated tasks without supervision any time soon. Obviously chat gpt is impressive but there is a big difference between generating code snippets you could pull from stackoverflow to what most devs do today or at leat what I do. It will become a more and more advanced tool but I dont think it will replace people directly.

[hearty island]

goddamnit how many customer service people does my company have to hire 😭😭😭 and why make me set up the computers

[near ocean]

Refer to past conversations in this very channel, we dont need to have the same discussion every week
There have been more comprehensive answers about how and why this will not take any software developer's job in the near future, anyway

[slim gull]

How can I refer to past discussions?

[near ocean]

Scroll up in this chat, use the search functionality
I dont think we have relevant pins

[hearty island]

we should pin something

[near ocean]

Mayhap, but then this chat would turn into "look at x pin"

[hearty island]

bc i’ve seen this question pop up a ton… oh yeah maybe

[still condor]

IMO this question belongs to off-topic

[hearty island]

i have to learn power bi for my summer internship

[still condor]

What would be appropriate to put in a resume besides just my experience and the technologies I know? Something like an 'about me' section perhaps

[hearty island]

i just have my experience and the internships i did, but my resume probably looks different bc i’m project management oriented

besides excel and smartsheet pms aren’t really required to know much tech, but it depends on the industry

why is staples emailing me for a job 😭

anyone ever heard about untapped.io? looks like a job site

[undone bramble]

Is Python a good language for game development?

Thanks, but what jobs does Python get you?

[buoyant seal]

Web backend development, DevOps engineering, machine learning, data science

[undone bramble]

Thanks

[buoyant seal]

Worst option ever for game development (in terms of desktop and mobile applications sucks) 😅 except for game Backend part can be fine

[hearty island]

game dev is very stressful i heard

and low wages

[dreamy spade]

@near ocean What did you within those 9 months of not getting employed in tech after you graduated?

[near ocean]

Sit at home, learn JS and some react, do a couple of projects, apply to all kinds of postings

And generally have a terrible time in the pandemic

[dreamy spade]

Oh right. This was in the pandemic era.

[hearty island]

ah yes those days

[hearty island]

wow i just saw someone from microsoft get let go after 16 years on linkedin… senior program manager

guess they’re going up the food chain

[karmic helm]

@sour tartan I've built a website

Medicine related

[sleek egret]

layoffs are a great time to clean house

[hearty island]

i spoke to my prof about project management and he said he‘d look at my resume

maybe he knows someone 👀

[dreamy spade]

Is it bad to apply for multiple tech job positions at a company?

[true harness]

no

[dreamy spade]

Because my main objective is to get inside tech. My employment consultant said:

“Applying to one company for roles at various levels (ie. entry and mid level) or too many positions at one company are often seen as a red flag with unclear career goals.”

[true harness]

and their qualifications were?

[dreamy spade]

They are a certified resume strategist

[true harness]

what does that even mean. do you go to school for that?

anyways. i don't personally hire people, but i've never heard of anything like that

[near ocean]

Some companies might not let you open multiple applications or would like you to tell them if you have open applications, i dont think its a big deal

[true harness]

i've never experienced the first, but i have seen the second. i needed to go back and write down all the dates i applied 😔

[dreamy spade]

It’s a credential

[balmy mural]

I would consider it weird if you applied to a company's grad program and also their principle enigineer position. I'd assume it was some form of bot that applied to both since a person should know in what range their abilities are

[true harness]

yeah, but how do you get it. like, for a B.S you need to go to college and complete the requirements

[balmy mural]

If you apply for both a junior and middle position that's fine though

[true harness]

yeah, as with everything, i think as long as it's reasonable it's fine

[dreamy spade]

To obtain your Certified Résumé Strategist (CRS) designation you must have a minimum of 1 year full-time (or equivalent part-time) paid qualifying work experience in résumé development. The process is straightforward: Join CPC Membership. Register and pay the certification application fee.

[true harness]

interesting. i've never heard of this. do you have a link for that?

[dreamy spade]

They are also a Certified Employment Strategist

https://careerprocanada.ca/cpc-certifications/crs-credential/#:~:text=To obtain your Certified Résumé,pay the certification application fee.

[true harness]

but do they actually hire people for developer jobs? or know people that hire devs? i wouldn't trust someone without that firsthand knowledge (including myself)

[dreamy spade]

Who’s they?

[true harness]

the same "they" in your message? the person who gave you this advice

[dreamy spade]

Why would my employment consultant hire any job developers? They just try to help me in getting a job.

They did send my resume to a job developer though

[true harness]

well they're giving you tips to help get you hired. how do they know what's involved with hiring devs? i can't really tell you what to believe, but you should verify the information you get

[dreamy spade]

Well my employment consultant has multiple certifications

[true harness]

sure. i honestly don't know how much weight these certifications have, i'm not familiar with them ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dreamy spade]

I’m not saying they are correct. Just trying to give you their professional background.

[true harness]

to be fair, i have not had a situation where it has worked out yet. though i did get an interview with one, so maybe that counts

[hearty island]

back to cold emailing again

[smoky quest]

apply to at most 2-3 positions which show you have thought about it. More than that just sends a spam vibe.

[shadow wyvern]

What type of stuff should I learn how to do in python so I can make money freelancing?

[near ocean]

What kind of stuff are people hiring freelancers for?

[shadow wyvern]

I don't know that is why I asked here.

[spark cobalt]

Has many variables like location, your current capabilities/portfolio, etc.

[signal ledge]

is there any modules on this server

[true harness]

what's a "module"?

[signal ledge]

💀

seems like you havent gotten far with python

[true harness]

what are you looking for?

[near ocean]

First step is doing market research, find sites where people hire freelancers, see what successful freelancers are doing in your area, etc
Not much we can help you with going just on what you've told us so far

[shadow wyvern]

Thanks

[near ocean]

What does this even mean

[hearty island]

do they mean like numpy or pandas or something

[shadow wyvern]

I think they mean packages like pygame, time, random, etc. like anything that uses the import command. if that makes scene.

[true harness]

but how does that fit into "on this server"

[shadow wyvern]

I do not know.

[harsh river]

maybe for the !e bot

[dreamy spade]

Apparently.

https://www.ciodive.com/news/software-developers-hiring-technology/644056/

[true harness]

i think that's been the story for a while now. talented people are in high demand

[hearty island]

new strategy unlocked: go off the fortune 500 and email companies HR and talent acquisition teams

the nice part is handshake lets me pull the emails

[true harness]

that sounds like it has a low probability of success

[hearty island]

yeah it's a shot in the dark

i just do it while i grind applications but i already have stuff so i guess i do it out of boredom

good 'ol centene on the 26th spot

lots of energy companies on the fortune 500

[vestal kettle]

I am not that experienced and I feel I will never get hired

[hearty island]

what do you want to go into in programming

[meager imp]

anyone know much about getting into building ai?

[pliant fiber]

I turned my current job into programming

Pay isnt as good that way but i got a 20% raise this year and it may be easier than just straight going into a dev job

[true harness]

most people have no experience before they get hired

[hearty island]

some have internships

my friend doesn't have any internships and he graduates this sem

[true harness]

how do you get an internship without being hired

[hearty island]

oh i meant that some people do have experience

[dull mantle]

sd

[true harness]

you don't have experience before your first experience, by definition

[hearty island]

i must be braindead from reading liar's poker my bad

idk i've seen companies that don't count internship experience as experience

[harsh river]

depends on the company you did the intership for

[dreamy shadow]

Rip

[hearty island]

not a comp sci major tho, he's business management. still gonna struggle tho

[dreamy shadow]

While some companies don't count internships as experience, I'm willing to bet that they still prefer cadindidates with than without.

[hearty island]

oh defo

i feel so bad for him but he doesn't apply

[vestal kettle]

I have some experience but seems companies do not count. And I am not skilled enough for mid level. This is my problem

[vapid jay]

Can I request a resume review from a dev pls?

[hearty island]

post an anonymized version of your resume here, people will help

[sturdy jacinth]

Hey, does anyone know if it's possible to only look at articles/documents/links that were sent in a discord channel?

[inner wren]

Hey @vapid jay!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[hearty island]

you can't attach PDFs on Discord?

[dreamy shadow]

Pdf can be a security risk.

[vapid jay]

https://docdro.id/Tp0FG0H

[hearty island]

oh right

[vapid jay]

real resume has no uses of the term "devvyboy" or "mr dev face"

[hearty island]

lol

[vapid jay]

I have sent maybe 500 resumes with 50 or so cover ltters havent heard a peep or squeek.

[snow rapids]

This is from LinkedIn messages. Does it look like a scam to you?

[hearty island]

yeah i think so

just sounds too good to be true

[snow rapids]

It does to me too. What could they do when stealing your info? Most details are online anyway (LinkedIn mostly)

I didn't give them anything that i don't share online. Just wanted to investigate them a bit. Had a call with them. They wanted me to fill quite a detailed form which i didn't do. But most details are online anyway. Just thinking what the scam is about.

I also didn't accept the connection invite on LI. Didn't want to give false sense of trust that this person is connected. If this has any 'trust factor' at all ... 🙂 Probably not.

[hearty island]

it’s probably bs

[dreamy spade]

That's me

[hearty island]

what?

[dreamy spade]

Not everybody graduates with internship experience and that's just the reality. There's going to be a lot of students who will get beaten out from that opportunity by candidates. I was one of those students who got beaten out.

[hearty island]

it takes so many applications, i normally hit 500-750 applications before i get a "yes"

that being said i don't track my applications with notion like psvm does, so i don't know the exact number

[dreamy spade]

I hope that's not the case

[snow rapids]

Do you apply all over the world? Yearly number of job adverts is lower than this where i live 🙂

[hearty island]

nope, US only

mostly project management/business analyst roles

[vapid jay]

Any thoughts on the resume?

[dreamy spade]

It would be ridiculous to prefer applicants who have internship experience as an employer because not everybody can get it.

[hearty island]

hmmm idk about that, if you were hiring data sci people wouldn't you want someone who already has data sci experience from an internship?

[dreamy spade]

If you graduate, you can't get it anymore. So then what the hell is the point of graduating then..

[dreamy spade]

Not every person who goes to university has access to internships...

[hearty island]

yes but wouldn't a company want someone who already has some experience in the field?

[dreamy spade]

Yes but there's other ways to compensate if you don't have an internship experience.

[hearty island]

yeah that's true

[dreamy spade]

That's a problem if you purely rely on applicants who did internships

[summer roost]

that's like saying that it's ridiculous for a company to prefer local applicants because not everyone can live in their town.

[dreamy spade]

it is lol

[hearty island]

visible confusion

[dreamy spade]

And that's a false equivalency

[hearty island]

further visible confusion

[summer roost]

no, it's an analogy.

[dreamy spade]

If a company needs applicants to live in their hometown, those applicants have the option to relocate. You can't get an internship anymore if you graduated. That's why it's a false comparsion.

[summer roost]

ah. Well, replace "town" with "country", then.

[hearty island]

lol i'm gonna let godlygeek handle this i have an essay to write (unfortunately)

i still think internships are important tho and they are nice to have

fuck yeah i reached 408 words, 500 or 600 words i'm calling it a night

[summer roost]

it's clearly absurd to say that companies shouldn't prefer more experienced applicants over less experienced applicants for the same position.

[hearty island]

^ that's what i'm saying too

[dreamy spade]

I explained already

[hearty island]

what's the point of an internship if it doesn't give you an advantage then?

[dreamy spade]

They don’t have to care but it’s illogical. But I suppose it’s the employer’s prerogative to make irrational decisions.

[dreamy shadow]

Life's not fair? Not sure what else is needed to be said.

[dreamy spade]

Let me ask you a question. Does internship experience equate to work experience?

[summer roost]

yep.

And candidates who've had prior professional experience are more likely to succeed at the position than candidates who haven't. That's why the company would prefer to hire someone with prior professional experience.

[hearty island]

yes

[dreamy spade]

If that's the case then the "can't get a job without experience and can't get experience without a job" paradox becomes more grounded in reality and makes it less possible to escape.

[summer roost]

yes

[hearty island]

yep, catch 22

[dreamy spade]

I can't get an internship anymore because I graduated. I would have gotten rid of that problem if companies allowed graduates to take on internship roles.

[hearty island]

there are some

[summer roost]

that's not really a catch 22. Like you said above - this is exactly why people get internships. It makes them more desirable as entry level engineers.

[hearty island]

oh, ok then my bad

and you can get graduate internships, they mostly offer them for ai tho from what i've seen

[dreamy shadow]

That's to hire for cheap lmao

[hearty island]

lol yes

[summer roost]

internships for people who've already graduated are pretty rare. I'm sure that more than 90% of internships go to university students. I'd expect that it's over 99%

[dreamy spade]

That's my strategy. I give very low salary numbers when I apply for jobs. My goal is to get inside tech by any means necessary.

[hearty island]

yeah from what i saw these AI roles were for PHD students

[summer roost]

if you're giving numbers that are well below the market, that might make you look less desirable as a candidate. It suggests that either you don't understand the market, or that you think you're much less valuable than other engineers.

[dreamy spade]

From this conversation, I'm taking the impression that internships are valued more than degrees.

[hearty island]

uhhh i don't think that's what we're trying to say

[summer roost]

definitely no - an internship with no degree is definitely less helpful than a degree with no internship

[hearty island]

^

[dreamy spade]

Students who haven't graduated yet get internships.

I graduated and can't get an internship.

[summer roost]

yes, because (most) internships aren't offered to people who've graduated

[dreamy shadow]

You should be applying for full time

[dreamy spade]

I'm more than likely getting beaten by applicants who have internship experience.

[hearty island]

you still should be applying for full time positions

[dreamy shadow]

And beaten by applicants who went to T1 schools like Harvard. Or beaten by applicants who's father is the CEO of the company. It's a numbers game, keep applying.

[hearty island]

the point is something will click eventually

480 more words to go

[smoky quest]

there would be little benefit to an internship for you

[smoky quest]

Not necessarily. That's still just a few months of experience. Doesn't change much in the grand scheme of things

[old nova]

Hey guys anyone from India??
I need advice in choosing my btech college🥲

Sry if it's not the right place

[short linden]

not in india but look at IIT Bombay or BITS Pilani

[old nova]

Is DTU a good one or not
I mean is it recognised internationally??

[short linden]

yea

[old nova]

Thank you so much

[old nova]

And can you name some popular colleges in india recognised internationally
Sorry for ping tho

[short linden]

IIT Delhi and IIT Kharagpur

[pine sleet]

However IIRC IIT is incredibly competitive and difficult to get into

[warped frigate]

mhm right

you can try NIT if you don't get into IIT

[old nova]

Yeah🥲

[barren sun]

guys what to do

bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhh

[open pilot]

Is there a way to find a mentor that might be able to guide me in the right direction and get me to spend my time the best way possible. Atm i'm taking some courses such as ''Python for Everyone''. But when that is all done. I'm not gonna be some miracle worker. So I would like to get some guidance through my software journey

[near ocean]

Do you have a degree?

[open pilot]

No, at the moment I'm self learning, I got into a collage for computer science next year. But until then, I'm kind of on my own

[buoyant seal]

#web-development message
#web-development message
One time guidance directions ^_^

[near ocean]

So you're on the right track already, right now I would focus on keeping grades up if you're still in school, learning python or other languages on your own pace and generally enjoying pre-college life

[open pilot]

Thank you :D

[open pilot]

I'm looking for work, and I'm a bit of a hyper active person, so I'm not that good at sitting still haha
But thank you :D

[near ocean]

You're going to struggle to find software work without a degree or experience
Also enjoying life doesnt mean sitting still, theres hobbies, theres travel, theres socialising, etc (aside from learning)

[open pilot]

Of course. I love spending time working out and gaming, the girlfriend, friends and all that stuff haha
And I know I'm not anywhere close to do any sort of software work. It's just work overall. I need to make some money before school starts next year :p

[near ocean]

Ok, it seems you have things figured out then

[open pilot]

Maybe, I'm just going in one direction and hoping for the best with a bit of research. But thank you for taking the time out of your day to help me :)

[true harness]

have you changed this at all? just want to get the most up to date version

[true harness]

so why are you still so focused on getting an internship? you know it's highly unlikely and that there are other ways to compensate for that missing experience

[spark cobalt]

This applies to other aspects of your resume, not just the internship. For example: Lack of CS degree, portfolio, etc. Why not work on enhancing something you do have control of? Namely, your portfolio?

[spark cobalt]

I think just common thing I've seen from you is you tend to push your troubles to the fault of others. The recruiters, the hiring managers, the businesses, etc. I would really just sit down, evaluate the market for what it is, and just look into how you can navigate in this current market. I would really highly recommend you go to some sort of dev meetups, dev conferences where you can socialize with others, learn of people from different backgrounds, try to get criticism on your portfolio/resume, learn about the industry, etc., before going online saying that the world is against you.

It's definitely a tough time right now, but it seems like you're using unhealthy coping mechanisms that is seriously clouding your judgement and holding you back. Take a step back, take a breather, go back to the drawing boards, and just meticulously plan this out.

One thing that can help a lot is just listing out potential routes, and slowly knocking them out/ordering them in potential effectiveness and dig deep into that. Run through those routes with people in the industry and try to gather as many critiques to just keep improving that list. Maybe you'll get new items on there as well.

I get that it's stressful, but you really can't let this clouded frustration hold you back.

Your biggest enemy is yourself, not the recruiters/hiring managers/system/illuminati/etc.

[shut turret]

Do you have any insights on market? Seems like high Fed rate is killing business activity in general

[lean swan]

Hey folks
I am working in data domain but kinda free these days and want to work on open source projects
Can anyone suggest some of the open source projects or freelancing project
Do dm me
Thanks in advance 🤙🤙

[spark cobalt]

I think the normal we got used to with the past decade won't come back again (with significantly low interest rates), but I don't think tech is gonna shrink. It'll still grow, just slower imo.

At least in all of our lifetimes, there'll always be a constant demand for good engineers 🙂

If you just find ways to keep learning and be proactive about things, you'll be fine.

[agile horizon]

Hi,
What would be the best title for a resume which will represent backend development, data analysis and data science?

[true harness]

why do you need a title? I would probably have different resumes for them, not have them all combined together

[chrome sinew]

guys i started learning python 3 months ago ( 0 computer language history before that) and i do say im pretty decent at this point (finished my first wanna be real life project except a few possible crashes that im gonna finish in a few days) so my question is what should be my next step? start learning a new language or try to find some real life like projects to improve myself and put them in to my portfolio

[vapid jay]

Make separate ones

Unless there is a position that requires you to have all three but then you should ask yourself if that's the right opportunity.

[vapid jay]

Depends on what your goal is

[chrome sinew]

i would like to be a job ready backend developer by the end of this year

even its a minimum income i want that to keep me running while i continue learning

[vapid jay]

Focus on Python

[chrome sinew]

can i message you if you dont mind being a mentor for a bit

[vapid jay]

Always

[shut turret]

Title? Your full name)

[true harness]

you would probably be better off by making bigger, more in depth projects in python. but be aware that most jobs are not using a single language, rather you'll need other skills around Python as well. stuff like terminal skills, maybe docker, SQL

[chrome sinew]

i learned using mongodb with python if thats what you mean
so i can store modify datas

[true harness]

yes stuff like that. I would recommend learning SQL also

[chrome sinew]

then i will do that thanks

[mossy creek]

I started app development in kivy with python and I made ios calculator

I am so much confused how can i create any app from python

[reef quarry]

I think they meant job Title on the resume, maybe they are interested/have experience in everything they have mentioned,

Backend developer | Data Science | Data Analyst

[still condor]

What is the typical 'threshold' for including a technology in the 'technologies I know' list?

My problem is that I have worked with quite a few technologies in practice, but my knowledge is pretty shallow. So I'd be in deep mud if you started quizzing me on it

[true harness]

I seem to recall a very similar question being asked a while ago 👀

[still condor]

I have very bad memory

[hearty island]

i am shockingly getting responses from my cold emails

[still condor]

For example, I have worked with SQL, but mostly with simple queries. If I need to make a recursive query or do some aggregation I'm definitely going to spend a while googling.

[true harness]

well responses aren't that impressive. positive responses are

[hearty island]

well i already got one, let’s see if i can get something else

[somber shadow]

Hi Guys! I'm New To The Server

[true harness]

hm. i'm kinda in the same boat as you i think. i've used a lot of things, but only for like 1 project. i still list them though 🤔. my idea is that i already know a bit about the thing, and i'd be able to learn more if i needed to for an interview if i get one

[somber shadow]

I've Experienced Python For Almost 2 Years

[hearty island]

how’s your internship hunt going?

[still condor]

And resumes are notoriously bad for communicating nuance. So that's what I'm asking

[true harness]

it's going 😬 😭

[hearty island]

aw you’ll get something. you’re much better than me at coding and i always see you helping people on this server

[still condor]

I doubt I'll be able to learn all of SQL semantics in the few days I'll have before an interview 😄

[hearty island]

i feel like project management has a lower bar for entry maybe that’s why i got it… or is it imposter syndrome

[near ocean]

I think the way you phrase it does most of the work
If i say in "familiar" with sql, people shouldnt expect much depth beyond basics
If i use "comfortable with", some more depth, etc up until "expert" i guess

[still condor]

It doesn't help that the SQL standard costs like $600 and I literally cannot buy it here

[true harness]

i'm only applying for internships now, so i think the standards of what i need to know are different. i would probably be ok with only a surface to mid level knowledge. but if you're applying to be a DBA or something that's probably different

[somber shadow]

Hey Guys!, Could Anyone Suggest Me Which Collage Shall I Go For The Next Year? As I'm Passing 10th ig 😅

[hearty island]

but then again the PMP isn’t easy so i don’t think project management has that low of a bar

[somber shadow]

Forgot To Mention In India

[still condor]

So if I have a list of technologies, I should split it somehow?

[somber shadow]

what is the problem @still condor ?

[still condor]

To be fair, the only thing I'm "comfortable with" is Python

[true harness]

i personally don't split mine, i just have more familiar listed first

[still condor]

#career-advice message

[somber shadow]

yes, its the most preferable language and not only its the easiest thing

[near ocean]

You could say something like, "decreasing order of ability" and put sql at the bottom 💀

[somber shadow]

So, You're Asking Us For Help? Is it Am I Right?

[still condor]

Style them with decreasing alpha

[still condor]

Yes, I asked a question in this channel 🙂

[near ocean]

Or you could split it yes, not sure which one is preferable
Maybe instead of Lang/framework/tools split have a "comfortability" gradient

[still condor]

I guess this is the core problem... I don't know shit

[near ocean]

I think i mentioned in my interviews what im most comfortable with and what is lacking (it also was sql)

[still condor]

💀

[somber shadow]

The threshold for including a technology in your "technologies I know" list should be based on your ability to use it to solve practical problems to bro simply having some theoretical knowledge or exposure to a technology may not be sufficient however dude try to learn/adapt some new technologies @still condor

[true harness]

!rule 10

[inner wren]

Rules

10. Do not copy and paste answers from ChatGPT or similar AI tools.

[somber shadow]

bruh

@true harness this is not AI I Googled He's Question And Found Some Interesting Article Based On It I Gave Him My Suggestion It's Not Made By AI

[vapid jay]

anyone know why this error popping up?

[true harness]

either way. just interspersing "bro" and "however dude" into a copy and pasted text does not make a good answer

[still condor]

You should see a different channel. See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[somber shadow]

Sorry Dude, I Think Thats Discord.py I Don't Know It Im Sorry

[vapid jay]

no problem thank you

[somber shadow]

heh? wdym

[still condor]

That doesn't really answer my question 🙂

[somber shadow]

Oh! I Thought It Was Similar to the Article

@still condor could you provide some more information like what are you trying to ask i just can't undersatnd

[still condor]

Of course it should be based on how well I can solve practical problems and how well I understand the tool. I'm asking to what degree employers expect me to be familiar with stuff I put on my resume. There's a wide spectrum between 'have just read an intro to SQLite' and 'core developer of SQLite and coauthor of the SQL standard'

[somber shadow]

Like You're Trying For An Job? @still condor

[still condor]

Yes, I am looking to find a new job, that's why I'm updating my resume

[somber shadow]

hmm

May I Know How Much Is Your Studies You Learnt, Country Expected Salary, What Type Of Job So, I Can Think & Research With Google What Would Be Best For You And I Hope Your 24+ Age (Not Asking Age) @still condor

[still condor]

what

[somber shadow]

?

ok just say what you wanna become dude

[near ocean]

I think you should do 3 things
Keep the current language/framework/tool split from jakes resume
In any interview mention what youre most comfy with and least
Stop overthinking

[somber shadow]

You Shall Rather Select Some Languages You Wanna Improve Your Skills In Them And Find Jobs Related To The Languages You Selected Dude

[still condor]

I guess I just have to get older according to you lmao

[somber shadow]

Oh! idc about age dude

Bro, I wanna say it's hard getting an high-salary too like these types of jobs as you're -24

[still condor]

Sorry but I don't want anyone to search jobs for me, I just asked some guidance on my resume

[somber shadow]

You Could Go For maybe 250 or 300 $ Salary

[still condor]

errr

[somber shadow]

Yeah, No Problem My MisUnderstanding

[somber shadow]

It's Like An Starting Time As You're -24 You Would Like To Go A Bit Low And Learn More Languages Overtime So You Can Go High to 1000$ Maybe One Day Before You Get 30 ig?

😅

[near ocean]

Where do you live that 1000$ is high

[somber shadow]

bro, i'm mentioned Like in 2,3 years

[true harness]

salary ranges are different between countries

[somber shadow]

Yeah, That's A Big Problem void

[true harness]

that's not a big problem, that's just how it is.. well, it's a big problem if you want to compare across countries, but

[somber shadow]

Yes, That's What I'm Saying A Big Problem Your Edited Message

[still condor]

I would invoke rule 10 but I don't think ChatGPT can produce that

Anyway...

[somber shadow]

bro who? im clearly not using ChatGPT! I Can Show My History Too In ChatGPT

[agile horizon]

Thank you.

[somber shadow]

Go To An AI Tester Which Test Is This Made By AI And Paste My Text, Then Atleast You'll Understand 😭

[ivory sluice]

yes there is a wide range. if you've only read about and haven't used it, definitely skip.

if you've only used it in a couple projects, then you can easily say so if/when you're asked about it and qualify how familiar you are with it.

[ivory sluice]

can you link the jake resume again?

[true harness]

a good starting point for a basic resume template, aka jake's resume.
https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs

[ivory sluice]

do swe typically put a proficiency level next to languages?

[true harness]

no, from what i've seen

i don't have enough space for 4 lines of skills so i mashed frameworks and libraries together 😔

[pine sleet]

A&M

[ivory sluice]

i really need to update my resume.. says mina for the nth time

[still condor]

Yeah that's also my question. I don't see a good/standard way to do that

[near ocean]

Mina can you pin that link to jakes

[still condor]

Because me knowing Python and me knowing SQL are so different that it's really strange to put them near each other

[ivory sluice]

a good starting point for a basic resume template, aka jake's resume.

https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs

[true harness]

😭 i don't get a pin

[ivory sluice]

lol rewrite the msg and i'll pin

[still condor]

Damn I'm disturbed by the resume. You could say I'm Jake-wary

[weary gazelle]

being comfortable with using them. i wouldn't be comfortable writing a program in c / c++ but if whoever i was applying to asked me about it then i would verbally say that i'm familar with it.
Also being able to google the right questions you don#t know is normal. I have SQL and PostgreSQL on my CV because i'm comfortable working with them, but I have yet to write a functioning query using window functions or recursive queries

[true harness]

i think you should just apply and not worry that much unless it actually becomes a problem

[near ocean]

I've seen other more stylised CVs include proficiency levels but i wouldnt recommend overly stylized CVs unless you know for a fact theyre going directly to a person

[weary gazelle]

this looks oddly familar. surely i wouldn't have copypasted some random resume template off github to make my own. surely. ...

[still condor]

Wdym by comfortable

[weary gazelle]

if somebody asks you to write some command line app, what would you write it in?

[ivory sluice]

it's super standard/vanilla. i had nearly the exact template and i went to business school lol

it's interesting that both americans and europeans align that it's a good template though

[weary gazelle]

whatever your answer is, that will definitely be a language you're comfortable with.
For me personally, I don't have any "tech skills" on my CV, just the task sI did at my previous company. I think it's better because you can talk about actual projects

[still condor]

Well that depends on a lot of context. E.g. if the company already primarily uses Node, I'm going to make a Node application and just google how to do CLI stuff in Node. If it doesn't matter and it just needs to be very fast and standalone, probably Rust
Ultimately it's not just my decision, because the company will have to maintain it over years

[weary gazelle]

pretty much. I think a better question to answer may be "what will I work on in that company and will I be happy with that tech stack"

[still condor]

Ok now I'm in an even deeper analysis paralysis lmao

[weary gazelle]

welcome to the club, been doing that for my resignation for a few weeks now

are you applying to somewhere or just improving your CV?

[still condor]

Latter to do the former

[still condor]

You know, maybe I should just pay someone to help with my resume

[true harness]

interesting layout. is this your skills section?

[still condor]

Just to end the suffering

[weary gazelle]

so what are you analysis paralysising about? put everything you know and enjoy working with on it and apply would be what I would do

[weary gazelle]

this is under experience for my previous company, for the current one I'm not sure what to put yet, probably Kubernetes but I don't want to work with < 5 team members on k8s clusters 🥴

@still condor Do you have Python Discord on your CV already? If not definitely add it

[true harness]

i used to have a volunteer experience section where i had pydis and other volunteering things, but i removed it in favor of more projects

[zealous path]

…
Do you mean as “made a discord bot with Python” or “part of the Python discord server”

[still condor]

Well, I have a couple pain points.
First, I'm not sure what skills to specify or how
Second, I don't know how to describe myself in more general terms and wha I'm interested in, perhaps link to my github and other stuff
Then I'm having trouble combining all that on one page while keeping it readable and not vague or too shallow

[weary gazelle]

For these two examples probably making a bot, in my case it's helping out with python questions, working in the devops team, and working on the site project (code reviews etc)

[weary gazelle]

I just opened your GitHub profile and it's like something i would just take verbatim as my resume (i don't describe myself much on there, so take it with a grain of salt). Add some detail about what challenges you overcame as part of the projects

Also I would definitely put "niche" languages on my CV. In your case I think it's Elm, in my case it's Elixir / Erlang. Not because the company uses it, but because whoever is looking at your profile will see that you have an interest in learning new things

[buoyant seal]

if you are not ready to answer questions for this language and get hired for working in them, preferably better not to add them though

[cerulean cloak]

Yooooooo whats up guyyyyys🏆😎

[shut turret]

did you land a job or what?

[hearty island]

i'm getting responses to my cold emails, just not positive ones (only one so far). not shocking for fortune 500s tho

the good news is that i'll keep the companies on my radar

[cerulean cloak]

hahahhaha nah😭

[shut turret]

What are cold emails? Are you sending emails with CV right to company career emails?

[hearty island]

cold emails are emails that you send to companies asking for internships with a brief blurb about who you are, what you do, what type of job you seek. like a brief intro.

[shut turret]

uh ok

[sleek egret]

yar

[true harness]

I expect most companies are just gonna tell you to apply though their normal process

[sleek egret]

indeed. internships are typically handled through a separate process by most companies

[hearty island]

yep

[shut turret]

oh yeah they will. the problem is I open a vacancy at Linkedin and I see smth like "200 applied", "100 applied"

Pretty discouraging to hit that apply button after these numbers

[hearty island]

that number means nothing, it's fluff

[true harness]

yeah I understand that

[hearty island]

i read something that it's how many people looked at the job, not actually applied

[shut turret]

oh really? So they just count number of clicks on the link? Hmm

[true harness]

LinkedIn also has an incentive to inflate the numbers

[hearty island]

yes

idk why i keep applying to internships even though i already have stuff

i guess i like the hunt

[sleek egret]

perhaps you are seeking external validation and approval as a way of improving your self-esteem?

[hearty island]

idk abt that

[sleek egret]

ok. it was just speculation on my part

[true harness]

looking for something better?

[hearty island]

this ^ maybe

idk if the centene internship is really project management

[sleek egret]

are you though, are you really? and how would you know if it's better?

[hearty island]

yeah that's true i don't

[shut turret]

lol like some people on Tinder

[sleek egret]

one thing I've learned over the years is that job descriptions are next to worthless and often misleading or just blatent lies

[hearty island]

i think the centene internship will be good

[shut turret]

same as CVs of applicants

[sleek egret]

yes, but I can catch the CV lies

[shut turret]

nah you can't. If I tell you I'm an architect you'll be able to prove otherwise on the interview only

same for a candidate - they can learn job is not their dream once they got it

[sleek egret]

pre-filter test, brah

[hearty island]

yah man

[sleek egret]

a surprising # of people fail a simple filtering test. then, as you say, interview.

I had my nephew, in HS, take and pass (he did well, but not perfectly) our pre-filter test. around 1/3 of so-called professionals still failed it horribly

[true harness]

can I see 👀🥺

[shut turret]

pre-filter means an easy task from Leetcode?

[true harness]

something like that, yeah. or maybe even simpler

[sleek egret]

lol, nothing that difficult

[shut turret]

ok makes sense. But you still have to invest some time of a recruiter/developer to verify the solution. Same as you got the job and on probation

[true harness]

it's all automated. automated email sends out a link, it runs your code against auto generated test cases, sends the result

[sleek egret]

questions like, "given a list of n elements, divide it into m chunks where no chunk has a length difference of more than 1 than another chunk"

[true harness]

that's probably about a leetcode easy tbh

[shut turret]

yep

[sleek egret]

our last quiz had 5 questions, starting simple like that and ending harder. almost no one got them all correct. most people got most of them mostly correct.

but the ones that failed, failed horribly. as in, they outright lied on their CV.

[true harness]

I don't get how you fail an OA. just cheat lol. you already lied. (to be clear, I don't condone this)

[sleek egret]

they literally don't even know how to ask the right questions

and during our first phase interview, it's also clear that many of those that "passed" got a LOT of help from friends on online

[shut turret]

Someday we'll be installing chips with ChatGPT in our skulls to cheat 😆

[sleek egret]

during our coding interview, we make it clear that the candidate can use any and all online tools

I explicitly tell them they should feel free to google, use stack overflow, whatever. just get do the task. "we care more about getting it done than how you get the info to get it done".

most still crash and burn

[shut turret]

That gives me hope 😔

[near ocean]

opens up w3schools
Interviewing is an extreme sport

[sleek egret]

I try to be as gentle as nice as possible. i've only rarely had people cry.

[near ocean]

I've witnessed with my own eyes candidates copy entire snippets of code from w3schools and get syntax errors in their script

[sleek egret]

lol

[near ocean]

I dont think we've had someone cry but definitely look wrecked

[sleek egret]

it's just sad when you can't even cheat correctly

[true harness]

need to cheat at cheating

[pine sleet]

That happens?

[true harness]

it's understandable

[pine sleet]

Do you just decide not to hire them on the spot?

[sleek egret]

not if they cry

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 9 , delete ^_^

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[lyric crater]

Oh kk.

[still condor]

You cry because you failed the screening interview

I cry even before sending my CV

we're different

[sleek egret]

I applaud your proactive behavior

[near ocean]

Did you send it here at any point? Im curious personally

[still condor]

Nope

A bit too personal for my taste

[pine sleet]

Built different

[dreamy spade]

https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/when-the-job-hunt-is-too-long-5594748/

[smoky quest]

This is just a list of posts where people are bitching?

[spark cobalt]

Some of the tips aren't bad, but this coping mechanism where you're pretty much attached to the idea that it's not you, it's everyone else is just unhealthy.

[smoky quest]

I love that. The sooner and earlier they demonstrate that skill, the more time I save by ejecting them

[spark cobalt]

[pastel thunder]

did more changes, what are some turn off (for recruiters, lmao) that are still present.

also, i hope i have censored all personal details, right?

[sleek egret]

what skill?

[spark cobalt]

People that can't own their own faults and cope with it by saying it's a fault with everything else

[smoky quest]

Looks good. Some nitpicks:

• Saying it's packed is an understatement
• It would be nice to understand better why I should care about some of your projects/internships

[sleek egret]

You should at least tangentially mention the languages/technologies used for more of your various projects

[true harness]

you can put that after the | after the project name/type

[pastel thunder]

yeah one project is quite irrelevant, do you feel there are some irrelevant internships too?

[sleek egret]

sorry, yeah, I meant your internships, not the projects section

yes. most potential employers will care more about what you did during internships

[smoky quest]

As a reviewer, I will see "I did X".
That's a cool story, but what skills does it demonstrate? What was the impact and outcome? How relevant it is to the job I am hiring for?

[spark cobalt]

Yeah to add on to recursive, you can let your resume "breathe" more by selling what you're aiming for. If you're aiming for AI/ML roles, the Journal project might not be super important.

Another thing you could do is cut off some of those non-ML related 1 month internships, then dig deeper and expand more into your ML related roles.

[pastel thunder]

and how to avoid packing with this?

[sleek egret]

class projects tend to be highly guided so they are often not considered a good indicator for decision making. oh, if any of your projects are independent of classwork, say so.

[sleek egret]

here's a hint: almost no one prints these things out anymore

that emoji is scary

[pastel thunder]

and are there any "goes without saying" words? it might also help prevent packing

[sleek egret]

I think that goes without saying. which is why it was unsaid.

[pastel thunder]

??

[foggy halo]

Is it okay to ask about specific company's work culture here?

[smoky quest]

sure

[foggy halo]

Thank you!

So, has anyone worked in NASA (JPL) or Northrop Grumman before?

I'm trying to weigh my options right now, I'm going to graduate in 2 months and I'm looking for a great friendly place to start building some experience.
Any insight would help!

[true harness]

you have offers from both?

[sleek egret]

I have no direct experience, but I imagine both are highly structured

[smoky quest]

It may also depend on which group/department/team you join

[smoky quest]

have you asked them about it during your interviews?

[foggy halo]

No, not yet, for context, my professor forwarded my resume to Northrop Grumman and I'm scheduled for an interview in 3 weeks.

For NASA, I'm part of a NASA sponsored program for STEM students in my college and we have a meet and greet event coming up soon with them showcasing projects. They are looking for associates.

I'd like some insider knowledge if possible, I'm highly interested in Data Science!

[dreamy spade]

You see this is why I wanted to apply for internships but it's regrettably too late for that.

[sleek egret]

such is life. gotta roll with the punches, my man

[hearty island]

lol i lost my uhg internship last summer and i’m still kicking you gotta keep going

[dreamy spade]

i’m still kicking

What do you mean?

[true harness]

he's missing some punctuation. it means, "i'm still going"

[hearty island]

^

[snow rapids]

What's the job boards or other places to find part time jobs in software dev? LinkedIn i guess. Others?

[true harness]

indeed, glassdoor, handshake are some more. i've never really seen part time, though

[snow rapids]

I have like 4 hrs a day maybe max. Full time job will be too much.

[true harness]

school i guess?

[snow rapids]

Other job i have but looking for another part time . Yeah i noticed not many employers looking to hire part time

[true harness]

according to my mom, a cousin is currently working 2 full time virtual jobs. maybe an option?

[snow rapids]

Possibly.

[next jackal]

how do left handed people open the fridge

[snow rapids]

Wort case they want to have zoom call with you at the same time...

I would rather have a side job that I'm not expected to be available for them like 9-5

But i also heard about ppl doing two full time jobs

[smoky quest]

that's unethical, could be found out, and is a lot of risk.

[lament walrus]

Anybody got the font file ARIALUNI.TTF on their computer? I need this file, apparently, and it's tough to find. It's the font used in resumes

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
This has nothing to do with this channel. You may want to check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[near ocean]

What makes it unethical? I can understand illegal

[snow rapids]

I don't like the 'stress' it can have on you. Pretending you only work one job.

[smoky quest]

the legality is a blurry line. It's unethical because by definition, you cannot have more than a full time job

[snow rapids]

Probably legal especially if you freelance but companies mostly expect you are available for them full time. Would be hard sell to get them to agree you do your job but they shouldn't bother you with calls or expect your full time attention all the time

[smoky quest]

freelance is the same thing in the sense they do expect you to spend the amount of time you are being paid for and have promised.

[true harness]

i think that depends what definition you use (of course it does). if you define full time to be "takes up all your time", then sure

[smoky quest]

I am using the colloquial and legal definition

[snow rapids]

There are 24 hours in a day. 2x8 is 16. So math works. But biology not so much:)

[smoky quest]

yeah, or not for long 😉

[lament walrus]

a font used by linked-in resumes has nothing to do with #career-advice ?
guess I can try reddit

[true harness]

why do you need that font

[true harness]

that's what i said!

[true harness]

isn't the colloquial just 40 hours a week? i think the legal one is >30, right? it makes sense by the legal definition because there's no upper bound (😬), but if you use the 40/wk definition it's perfectly reasonable

[spark cobalt]

Like 12 hours a day

If I combine work and then efforts I do for side project, that pretty much makes up the same hours

[smoky quest]

It's actually specified in your employment contract, which also says you are exempt from the 40 hours 😉

[true harness]

i don't know what that means

[smoky quest]

Even if you go back to the 40h definition, you go back to the problem mentioned by #career-advice message

[smoky quest]

it means you are exempt from the 40h limit. And that's where the line gets a bit blurry

moonlighting, part time, or your own side business is fine in general. Where it becomes problematic is when someone claim to get into a second full time job, because it just cannot happen

[true harness]

sure. their justification was that they can finish the allotted work in less than 8hrs per day. though i can see how that would be considered unethical

[smoky quest]

So that means they could take on more work and aren't doing enough

[true harness]

there's a 40 hour limit?

[smoky quest]

there isn't since most tech workers are exempt from that limit

[ivory sluice]

limit meaning, anything above 40h is considered overtime
and if you're an exempt salaried worker, you're exempt from that limit

[near ocean]

I think whats unethical is an employer who tries to block you for 40h a week when the work could be done in 12 because they want a monopoly on your abilities

[smoky quest]

The answer here is to then reduce your work hours to 12h and pay you as such. Not pay you for 40h and only get 12h

[near ocean]

If only that was possible

[smoky quest]

So then, no one feel taken advantage of

[near ocean]

Is there anyone in this chat that actually works the full 8h straight? We all understand that the job does not require the full contracted hours, why is pretending it does not unethical?

[snow rapids]

Sometimes it's say like a person that sells food on the street (bad example i know 😅). You pay for them being available in case someone wants to buy something. Not necessarily expect them to be busy all 8 hrs shift.

[smoky quest]

I probably work more, just not in long uninterrupted sessions.
What a lot of these discussions miss is that people are more productive when they aren't too stressed out by working multiple jobs, when they have slack built in so that they can learn the greatest and newest technology or improve their skills, or so that they can build [professional] relationships with their fellow employees.
There is also the part where a lot of people are trusted by their management to do the right thing, but are just slacking off and not saying they could do more

[true harness]

oh, that's what i thought

maybe companies should bill like AWS does for compute 🤔. time used is time you get paid. but that would probably incentivize being worse at your job, lol

[near ocean]

If someone wants to work more than one full time job it doesnt mean they'll be stressed, besides, why would it be unethical if it depends on the individual's perception of what is stressful?
Why is not doing more a bad thing?

People can juggle many things at the same time, we do it every day

[snow rapids]

I think it could be stressful because you would need to hide the other job from them.

[smoky quest]

Because we are discussing about doing what was promised in the first place and how bad would it be if one party was under-delivering?

[smoky quest]

in general, if there is nothing wrong with it, then there is no reason to hide it

[near ocean]

There's people working 12-14-16h work days and performing great
How stressful something is is up to the individual
Also, not nice to assume people cant deliver on two or more jobs

[ivory sluice]

idk if by definition you cannot have 2 full-time jobs. some people work full-time and go to school full-time. they're double full-time

[snow rapids]

I mean if you have two full time jobs

[ivory sluice]

if you have an hourly job like in retail, i think there is zero ethical qualms about having 2 of them.

[white relic]

that's why "exempt"ness exists in the US

[ivory sluice]

as for swe-type or other similarly high-paying jobs, idk. your employment contract probably sets some expectation and you should meet it.

[snow rapids]

It starts to be blurry when you work remote

[white relic]

if you're working a job where you're paid for your time, that's different than being paid for your brains

[ivory sluice]

there is something i've heard of recently though called "fractional employment"

Fractional employment is a model whereby employees work part-time for several different employers during the week. The difference between fractional employment and part-time or contract labor is that fractional employment typically does not represent project-based or interim work.

[white relic]

exempt employees aren't paid by the hour, because you're (also) being paid for when you have a brilliant idea in the shower after you've come home, not just the time you spend at a keyboard in an office

[snow rapids]

In most cases it's the same i think. You need time for your brain to produce stuff

[smoky quest]

We aren't talking about 8+8h, right?

[white relic]

missing the point

[near ocean]

I dont think anyone in this industry is paid to be available 100% of the time the way something like retail or hospitality is
As long as i deliver, what is the ethical problem with working more jobs

[snow rapids]

Maybe my brain works different 😉

[near ocean]

Not arguing legality btw

[white relic]

it's not unethical if both your employers are in on it and they are ok with it

[ivory sluice]

it's just a counter to your statement of "you cannot have more than a full time job [by definition]"

[smoky quest]

the problem is you would be delivering less than the potential full time version of yourself

[near ocean]

How do you know that, why would you assume that

Performance isnt some linear graph with time spent in front of screen

[smoky quest]

I said something slightly different. I said you cannot have two full time jobs.
See also <#career-advice message>

[ivory sluice]

you can have 2 full time hourly jobs

[smoky quest]

I don't believe that would be sustainable

[white relic]

hourly jobs pay for your time by definition

if you have the time, you can sell it (but yes it would be unsustainable in the long run)

[ivory sluice]

that's fine, but my point stands that a full-time job by definition does not mean you can only have 1

[smoky quest]

For an exempt employee, it can be interpreted that way by a lawyer

[snow rapids]

Most cases they will not be ok?

[ivory sluice]

yeah so you're qualifying it to salaried exempt jobs

[white relic]

for jobs I would normally expect people in this chat room to be interested in, correct, that's at least not really in the spirit of things, even when not technically illegal

[near ocean]

Unless theres some conflict of interest, i dont see why they would not be ok

[snow rapids]

But you will be tired and lower productivity than just one job. No?

[near ocean]

Its not for everyone

[ivory sluice]

i'm by no means recommending it lol. just countering the idea that full-time job by definition means only 1.

[smoky quest]

most work contracts would be written in such a way that you would open your liability

(at least in the USA)

oh, and tech workers' contracts*

[near ocean]

Sure but that speaks to the legality of the issue, things could be illegal but not necessarily unethical

[smoky quest]

A lot of things can be unethical and perfectly legal

[ivory sluice]

yes, i think mariosis is just asking about the ethics of it

i really think the ethics of it lies purely in what you agreed to in your contract

[smoky quest]

Yeah sure. That wouldn't change the answer.
These contracts are written with a full time implication in mind. If the employee wants to do more things outside, they can be accommodated with a different type of ocntract

[snow rapids]

Because they pay you for full time job. After job you relax and come back refreshed next day to do more amazing things.

[white relic]

entering into contract without disclosing a conflict of interest is unethical.

[ivory sluice]

• plus don't work for competing companies lol

[near ocean]

It depends on the job, i dont think my job for example is as demanding and given my workload i think i could probably handle a second similar workload
Also amazing things in webdev is kind of

Another example is a friend of mine that basically does data entry and answers emails for 2h per day, full time job
Watches tv the rest of the time, why would it be unethical to properly utilise whats essentially free time

[snow rapids]

Yes i know what you are talking about.

[leaden jasper]

My employment agreement is specifically written so that any other job/income (excluding hobby income) must be pre-approved by the company. If there's a conflict of interest, it can be very bad so the company writes it into the agreement for all employees, even some non-exempt ones.

In general, I think of it as I'm being paid for about 40 hours of work a week for the company and for my expertise to solve problems/provide input. The work can range from training for relevant things, work for clients, to admin bullshit. But ultimately it is work for the company and I am available for whatever pops up during core hours. Sometimes the solving problems requires me to work a bit more, but that's also why I'm compensated pretty nicely. I'm not going to pretend I work fully focused straight 8s, but I provide about 40 hours worth of work per week and my expertise is used.

[near ocean]

I think the problem is that people here are big brains that work super cool jobs, but thats not the average software dev or remote worker

[leaden jasper]

But also I think most companies should go to 4-day work weeks and that 40 hour weeks are bullshit.

[snow rapids]

There are days I'm more busy but there are days I'm less busy.

[true harness]

4x10 you say?

[leaden jasper]

4x8, work and bullshit expands to the space you give it

[near ocean]

3x12 i hear with 10 extra holidays?

[true harness]

I'd do 2x20

[near ocean]

I used to do 5x12, or was supposed to lmao
The joys of remote work and pretending to be stuck on the tube

[leaden jasper]

I dunno, obviously there will be some situations in which people really do get away with not doing anything, but even at my first job I still found stuff to do. Or was able to justify my not being tasked a lot with improving my overall skillset that could eventually benefit the company. And that job was hideously boring and just admin work bullshit.

[snow rapids]

If we didn't have remote jobs we wouldn't have that discussion. We would sit 8 hrs in the office. Commute 2hrs. And the day would be pretty much over. With remote so different perspective

[smoky quest]

and one of the reasons of why some companies push back on remote and try to enforce some days in the office

[near ocean]

At my first job my biggest struggle was appearing to be busy, work was so little I'd go out of my way to invent more, but ofc this could just be an issue with management

[dreamy depot]

...

[white relic]

If you have a brilliant idea while you're sitting on the john Saturday morning, and you go in to work Monday and implement it and it saves the company $10k, great, that's what they pay you for
if you have a brilliant idea while you're working on some project for company B, and you turn around and implement it for company A, but B doesn't benefit from it, now you have created a problem.

[true harness]

why not both?

[white relic]

of course you also have to be concerned with legal ownership of patents, publications, etc. but even without that complication it's not like there are no conflicts of interest

[smoky quest]

because now the idea has become toxic and creates a huge legal liability

[near ocean]

That's very clearly unethical to everyone I think

Generally if you ask yourself "will company X's lawyers slam me for this" and no is not immediate, dont do it lol
Or do, im not anyone's dad

[snow rapids]

It could be seen as with property prices. A house is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. If your employer sees the value in whatever you do, even if its as little as 1hr workload for you they will pay.

[white relic]

I'm not sure if you mean why not implement the thing for both A and B
to which the answer is, maybe the solution just doesn't apply in the same way, or maybe they both get it but only company A profits from it financially

in which case, if the profit is great enough, some lawyer will be happy to argue that company B is entitled to a share of it because they paid you to figure it out

[true harness]

tbh this sounds like too much of a hassle 😔 even if it were physically possible. luckily swe pays enough to only need one :D

[smoky quest]

plus the problems linked to the logistics (meetings, time conflicts, network in common, on-call conflicts, etc.) and there are solutions in the work or already working to check on that.
Honesty is the best policy and employers can create specific environments for specific needs

[true harness]

i did have that conversation with a company about a spring internship. they said they'd work around my school schedule as long as i said when i needed to have some time for exams or whatnot. though they said "start immediately" in like, late feb, so it would have been during school. but their hiring process is so long it's just looking more like a summer internship 😬

[snow rapids]

Is there ever enough money? 🤑

I'm now on this 'freelance' employment thing. Works better financially because of taxes. But you are only paid for days you work. If you take a week off. You don't get paid for that week. Kind of nice as you can decide if you want money or vacation. But also it sucks to think about 'lost' money when on vacation :/

[near ocean]

You lose a lot of benefits with freelance
No PTO, no pension, no life insurance/assurance, etc

[hearty island]

damn the guy who runs the server on this PM server i'm in just got laid off, i feel bad for him

[quartz moss]

the linkedin searchbar sucks

[hearty island]

what about it specifically?

[quartz moss]

just shows you a lot of things that have nothing to do with what you searched for

[hearty island]

oh yeah i totally agree

[ivory sluice]

last week i learned of something called the WARN act. companies performing layoffs meeting certain criteria are required to report it ahead of time. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/layoffs/workers

i'm not sure how applicable it will be to the people here since the threshold might be quite high

[smoky quest]

it's useful for hiring people too 😉

[ivory sluice]

here is NY state's notices for example https://dol.ny.gov/warn-notices

[dreamy shadow]

I recall learning this a long while back. All I recall is that it was basically useless lol.

[ivory sluice]

but if you're """lucky""" and this law applies to your situation it could give you a heads up and some time to prepare

[dreamy shadow]

And you managed to check at the right time I think.

[ivory sluice]

i suspect that there are other signs that you could pick up on if you're exposed to the right people and conversations. so yeah not sure how helpful this is in practice

[hearty island]

he used to work for Lucid Group, but then their EV production started flagging

[dreamy shadow]

Tbf, Lucid production has been terrible.

[hearty island]

in short he got fucked and now he's out of a job too. just got his PMP.

[naive marlin]

i wanna be a youtuber. in fact, i've already started my journey

[true harness]

good luck, you'll need it

[ivory sluice]

we don't allow advertisement here @naive marlin. please check the #rules

[naive marlin]

sorry about that

[hearty island]

lmao tell me why Elevance health responded to my email at 9:30 PM… maybe a diff time zone?

nope indianapolis is also eastern time

lord i’m terrified of their work life balance 💀

[smoky quest]

That's why scheduled delivery is an awesome feature

[true harness]

why schedule send at 9:30pm though

[smoky quest]

the opposite: Send them at 9:30pm, but schedule them for business hours

[true harness]

well that I understand, but he received the email now

[smoky quest]

I didn't say they were using that feature. Just that this feature is awesome as it helps avoid scaring people

[true harness]

i c

[dreamy spade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsquOOlvOxg

[spark cobalt]

The answer to this problem: Apply more.

You can selectively choose what companies are hiring by going on LinkedIn and filtering for posts of people getting hired.

I see new posts on new grad getting roles, like dozens of them, everyday, it's not some lost cause

And it's not like they're all big tech or something extremely competitive either

[peak halo]

Is there context for this?

[true harness]

why is this guy following up on just an application lol. but yeah, wilder is kinda right. just apply more, there's nothing you can do about it

[dreamy spade]

What do you mean? This is a video.

[smoky quest]

any tl;dr?

[dreamy spade]

I'm too lazy for that man.

[ivory sluice]

the tl;dw is:

[true harness]

tl;dr, companies are posting ads for jobs they don't plan to hire anyone for, because they want to push wages down by artificial demand, gain insight on market for candidates, just in case someone cool applies, and to say to workers they're going to hire someone to help so they stop complaining

[ivory sluice]

kept the listings up to placate overworked employees
that's so fucked lol

if you tell me a listing has been up and not filled for months isn't that.. really obvious that it's intentionally not being filled?

[smoky quest]

yeah, I don't buy it.
Never seen it either
Note; thanks for the tl;dw!

[smoky quest]

It's not unexpected to take a few months to find a good candidate. That's the norm

[ivory sluice]

not for entry or mid level positions

[true harness]

apparently it's only 27% of the time, but I'm not sure if that's swe only

[smoky quest]

that's almost a third. That's huge!

[ivory sluice]

the survey was 1,000 hiring managers of unspecified industries and unspecified types of listings so

[true harness]

it also doesn't have any distributions 😔, that one number doesn't tell us much. time to find the survey 😩

[true harness]

honestly not sure if swe only would be higher or lower

[ivory sluice]

https://clarifycapital.com/job-seekers-beware-of-ghost-jobs-survey

[spark cobalt]

Apply to 36% more

[smoky quest]

yeah, the 2-3 months make sense as it's what typically takes to find someone

[ivory sluice]

lol

[true harness]

those buckets are so shit bruh. who designed this survey. just let them put a number 😭😭

[spark cobalt]

@dreamy spade One way you can approach this is looking at 30+ Days Old jobs. At least ime, the interviews I've gotten were from unclosed job postings from a while ago. Higher chance they might be closed, but it's significantly less competitive.

[ivory sluice]

so to clarify, yeah a couple months is no problemo. but i can't see it being a successful method for "placating overworked employees" if the employees know how many applicants there are and roughly how many are being interviewed. if you have a string of interviews, say 2-4 a month for a position for more than 3 months and 0 offers are made i would definitely question it.

[dreamy spade]

I see

[spark cobalt]

But this also asks for applying to more, getting ghosted more, etc.

[spark cobalt]

I'd really like to see you ask questions with your plans for the future instead of your constant doomposting 🙂

[ivory sluice]

especially if it's not a managerial, director or executive position

[dreamy spade]

I thought the video was informative so I wanted to share it.

[spark cobalt]

Yeah nw. I'm mostly referencing just your chat history as a whole

[true harness]

i think they would not even interview people, so you're not involving technical people yet

[ivory sluice]

right and if you tell me you're doing your best to hire so i'm not overworked but you're not extending interviews then i will call BS ^_^

[true harness]

sorry mina, the job market is just bad right now. no qualified candidates

[ivory sluice]

what do you guys think of the statement of "everyone is replaceable"?
my CEO told me this maybe in year 5 or so of my tenure when i thought i was extremely hot shit and i totally didn't believe it. i do now though*

*but i do wonder if really 10000000% of everyone is really replaceable in every circumstance.

[summer roost]

seems like trying to placate employees by advertising job postings that you don't intend to fill would just backfire. Employees would refer people they know for those jobs, those people either wouldn't get interviewed or would get interviewed and summarily rejected, and the employees would be more disgruntled than if you had done nothing

[spark cobalt]

Technically true, practically false.

[summer roost]

Everyone should be replaceable. If a single employee getting hit by a bus would cause your business to collapse, something is terribly wrong. But, the costs of replacing even a below average employee are quite high.

[buoyant seal]

If u do your work in the way you are irreplaceable, then u do 💩 poor job. ^_^

Cost of your replacement usually equals = price to find developer with similar skills (can be from 10000 euros and higher price) + Your already accumulated experience and knowledge about company specific technologies and processes (they can take year/years of accumulation) + (when you are with choosing more than 6-12 months, you are already tuned... Usually having established cooperation/bondings with others to have you working more efficiently)

TLDR: final cost of replacement can cost from month to several months of salary of particular employee u try to replace. If we consider all variables for new employee to be acclimatized and becoming equally productive (So.... The amount of money becomes nasty)

[ivory sluice]

(can be from 10000 euros are higher price)
what does this mean?

[buoyant seal]

Fixed. and word instead of are
That is price of recruiter time to seek you. We can just name it: salary of recruiter to find you 🙂

• Yeah cost of participation of tech people in interviews too, and possible other related costs involved in the process before u have person hired yet

[summer roost]

I think that's a reference to the costs of actually advertising a job, interviewing, hiring, etc

people drastically underestimate the costs of onboarding someone new. And the costs of lost institutional knowledge / brain drain from someone who already knows how lots of things work leaving

hiring is surprisingly expensive, and hiring is cheap compared to onboarding.

[buoyant seal]

And all of it makes conclusion... How great to have good employee retention rate

[buoyant seal]

how much was damaged Twitter in 75% of its people fired in very short terms ^_^ amount of lost knowledge is at the level of apocalypse under question if possible to survive.
There was no room to regenerate this knowledge

[fading blade]

Hey there! I'm a 17-year-old who's really into Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning. I know some Python basics and I'm looking to pursue a career in this field. I've got about 3 months before college starts and I want to make the most of it. Any ideas on how I can spend my time in a cool and meaningful way?

[spark cobalt]

Study MLT.

I personally like the book called Probablistic Machine Learning by Kevin Murphy. It starts at high school level math and goes really deep into the concepts. It's also free on the author's Github.

[thorn oar]

that's why you have to learn COBOL

[dreamy shadow]

[fading blade]

Any more responses to my question above would be greatly appreciated!

[smoky quest]

Placating overworked employees is just click bait.
Given how they frame the number of months as a "OMG employers are evil", I have some doubts about the methods used to collect and analyze their data.

In general, interviewing 2-4 people a month is below normal recruiting pipelines. I would consider a problem on the sourcing side. The rejection rate is much higher than 4-12 people prior to making an offer. And that's already at the end of the pipeline, after rejecting the resumes, after the OA/filter, after etc.

Also note that from a purely logistic perspective, as a candidate, you will send your application, hear back from a recruiter a few days later, schedule a talk (so another few days because of schedule), then schedule a filter/OA (another few days or week), then schedule a talk with the manager (another few days or a week), then with the interview panel (another few days later, spread over a few more days if remote and TZs at play), then a few days later hear back with an offer, for which you want to think about for another few days (or week), after which you may accept it (or not), and only then the job ad being removed. All these steps add up, and a single candidate could very well take a month or two depending on the respective schedules

[pearl mango]

Maybe asking that on a forum or a subreddit would fit more on this style of question. This is kind of an information dump, and the flow of the chat is currently focused on something else.

[fading blade]

Okay! Thanks for the suggestion.

[smoky quest]

have fun and build things!
That will help you see different things and how they fit together

[fading blade]

Umm where do i start? For a newbie like me there are plenty of resources available.

[smoky quest]

https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ is a good start

[fading blade]

Thanks a lot! Will look into it.

[summer roost]

build simple programs, and then try building bigger programs. Try building lots of different kinds of programs. Try building programs that use a lot of libraries. Try building programs that don't use any libraries. Try building programs in different languages. Try a lot of stuff, and figure out what you like and what you don't.

[spice delta]

!pastebin

[inner wren]

Pasting large amounts of code

If your code is too long to fit in a codeblock in Discord, you can paste your code here:
https://paste.pythondiscord.com/

After pasting your code, save it by clicking the floppy disk icon in the top right, or by typing ctrl + S. After doing that, the URL should change. Copy the URL and post it here so others can see it.

[hardy stratus]

I am following w3schools for Python. The objective is to crack the interviews of product companies for Data Structures and Algo. Can someone please help me make a list of important topics.

[harsh river]

w3schools isn't a good resource to learn python

roadmap.sh is a good resource if you want a list of important topics / and if you want a better website than w3cschools then use realpython

[buoyant seal]

if that is your objective, you may find better luck with going through

[somber shadow]

hey guys could anyone suggest me what path shall i take?

[near ocean]

Do you have a degree?

[spark cobalt]

Your goals?

[hardy stratus]

I suppose I have got the fitting answer. Shall now be on how I follow

[pastel thunder]

update
~95 application
4-5 replies
1 interview done (first round)

[true harness]

that's a fantastic ratio lol

[pastel thunder]

really? technically thats 1/95, because many replies ghost me after I reply back.

[true harness]

well it depends on the nature of the reply. i assume it's just taking a while, and they're not actually ghosting you after scheduling more things.

[pastel thunder]

yeah, my last interview was fantastic, they mentioned they get back within one day but havent, lets hope they reply, i am optimistic cuz when i told them i was free at x date, they skipped that date but did get back after sometime.

🤞

[true harness]

🎉. we're in different countries, but i'm at 344 applications to 7 replies

[pastel thunder]

i see, definitely gives me more hope. What area are you targeting, if i may ask?

[true harness]

any tech related internship 😭. just trying to get something for the summer

[pastel thunder]

internship? what(field) are you best at?

[true harness]

probably dev, though i'm applying to QA stuff as well

[pastel thunder]

try startups as well, they are willing to take freshers if you show interest. i get more responses from them.

[low verge]

Hey, is anyone else on the job hunt looking to land their first position?

[hearty island]

me but in project management

[hearty island]

lol just applied to 3 more oracle positions

oracle’s mad slow in processing applications

[near ocean]

Why the oracle obsession?

[hearty island]

a weird way of proving to myself that i can do it

even tho i’ve landed internships from large companies before

[deep shuttle]

ouch I was 1 application 1 reply 1 internship secured

[true harness]

wtf? well i guess it depends on the situation

[spark cobalt]

Possible for other situations too. Like if it was some smaller startup of college kids, nepotism/connections, etc.

Have seen a lot of people in this scenario fit the first case. But I guess you could be really lucky too

[true harness]

yeah. though if it was just a normal application, that would be very impressive (or lucky)

[deep shuttle]

god I wish

nah just normal internship, no accomodation, no connections, just a good CV and work history I guess

[true harness]

why'd you only apply to one, though?

[deep shuttle]

because it was right at the start of the year
most places hadn't released them until I got this one

[spark cobalt]

Do you mind sharing more of your background

[deep shuttle]

uhh,

freelance software development since 15,
started a game server hosting company at 17, sold that at 18 where I was brought into the company that bought us out as technical lead for the last 2ish years.

[spark cobalt]

Ah what grade are you in for college I presume?

[deep shuttle]

2nd Year University

[spark cobalt]

Oh wow, extensive experience already. Very nice, congrats!

[deep shuttle]

then internship last summer working on the software side of a biopharma company

[true harness]

very impressive 👏🎉

[deep shuttle]

ty haha, I'm sure there are people here that leave me in the dust though

[true harness]

I don't have any relevant experience, which is probably why I'm getting such a shit ratio

[deep shuttle]

most people don't to be fair, I'm definitely in an abnormal position

[deep shuttle]

what stage of (presumably) education are you at then? considering you're applying for internships you're putting yourself ahead of a lot of people (obviously only if you don't mind my asking)

[true harness]

freshman in college in the US

[deep shuttle]

ahhh, US?

[hearty island]

if you agree to an internship for another company, are you basically signing a noncompete?

[deep shuttle]

wdym? with my current work? it's not the same industry, noncompetes aren't as broadly enforcable as people believe

[true harness]

it depends what you mean by "agree"

[hearty island]

no, not you specifically i was just asking generally

i’m pretty sure there’s some kind of moral obligation to stop applying for internships when you already have one since you’re basically taking the chance away from other people 😭 but there’s also a good shot you don’t get picked either

[deep shuttle]

I know someone who managed to do a couple last year
but this one is 12 weeks so spans a large amount of summer

[hearty island]

i would’ve done two last year if i had my uhg internship (big oof)

[near ocean]

Not sure if youre actually taking away people's chances
Wouldnt they contact their second choice and offer them the job if you say no?

[hearty island]

yeah that’s true

[deep shuttle]

yeah if you turn down an internship they just offer it to someone else

one of the interns at the company I was at last year dropped out about a week in and they just went through the applications and found someone else

[hearty island]

that’s probably what my current internship will do after i leave for centene

[true harness]

it might bump the guy last in the list to interview

[near ocean]

The guy last on the list never had a chance anyway

[quartz moss]

do you guys just use linkedin to find internships?

[near ocean]

Or as the kids say, skill issue

[true harness]

if you get a good interview I think you still have a good chance, even if your resume was ranked near the bottom of the candidates being interviewed

[hearty island]

i use linkedin the most, i haven’t checked glassdoor in a hot minute (but i probably should)

[quartz moss]

do you have no trouble finding remote stuff?

[hearty island]

there aren’t as many remote internships as there were during covid. my centene internship is remote tho

[delicate bane]

lol i have a link for you in OT

[vapid jay]

What are you

[hearty island]

what does that mean

[vapid jay]

Devops or what

[hearty island]

project management/business analyst

[vapid jay]

ah

[hearty island]

sometimes program management (depends if i find the internship interesting)

[vapid jay]

I brought up what i did this morning where I was at and what I was doing on one of my issues. Felt like a big mistake, just left me open to getting micromanaged. Most of the other people dont actually give any useful update and just say something to the effect of ‘Ya working on it’. It’s a big company, should I just consider the daily meetings a pointless formality, it feels like negative feedback trying to keep people in the loop

[smoky quest]

Can you expand a bit? That's way too generic to say anything

[smoky quest]

They could try, but they could also just drop the internship that year. Anything can happen

[near ocean]

No, if you're stuck say you're stuck and bother the right people that can do something about it

Otherwise at the end of the sprint or quarter or whatever, they're going to ask you about your progress and you won't have anything to point to

[vapid jay]

I wasnt stuck right I just said what I had done and what I plan to do. Maybe I shouldnt bring it up because people misconstrue that to mean I have no idea what to do next. I’m not really worried about my output compared to others, I guess it’s just not a collaborative work environment

I know at least one of my colleagues are struggling with their issues because I help them with them outside of these touch points but they dont bring up these kinds of things to save face I’m guessing

[zealous path]

The point of the meeting is not only just to update everyone but also give you an insight into other people’s projects. It happens where someone will say they’re working on a certain project or stuck somewhere and maybe you know from experience what the issue is or maybe it’s an interesting project you might want to be part of.

[zealous path]

Then they have a bad work habit

[smoky quest]

Are you talking about your team's standup?

[zealous path]

That’s what it sounds like

[vapid jay]

Ya it was a standup but the touch points are similar

[near ocean]

If i spent a decent chunk of my day helping some guy on my team i'll mention it during standup
Also, why wouldnt you mention what youre working on, regardless of being stuck, thats the entire point of standup

[zealous path]

90% of the time it might just be boring BAU stuff but if you don’t talk at all then you miss the important 10%

[smoky quest]

The point of a stand up is not to report, be micromanaged or evade the answers.
The point is for your team to sync on what is going on by going through three short questions:

• What did you do yesterday?
• What are you doing today?
• Anything blocking you?

The benefits are to keep it short and stay informed on what are your team mates doing so that you can chime in and help each others.
The way it's described, it doesn't sound like people are taking it seriously

[next bone]

guys, would you say the tld matters for your portfolio website?

[pine sleet]

Shouldn't too much as long as it's not obscene

It won't be the difference between you getting the job vs not

[spark cobalt]

Don't make it unprofessional and you're fine.

[hearty island]

what's tld

[spark cobalt]

Oh TLD is not the whole domain name

It's the .com in Google.com

[next bone]

for example i'd use my surname + the tld domain of indonesia so: name.id

[spark cobalt]

If you're worried about price, GitHub pages is pretty normal to see in the industry

[next bone]

not worried about the price, it's like 18€ a year

[pine sleet]

Considering that .io on its own is like $70

[spark cobalt]

From where lol

[next bone]

alright $70 is too much anything under 20€ is fine. I thought .id is cool because it could stand for identification

[spark cobalt]

I haven't seen .io over like 50$

[next bone]

I also have a pretty common surname so a lot of tld domains are already used

yeah .io is like $38 for registration and renewal but my name is already taken

[pine sleet]

AWS

Though that doesn't really say much lol

[spark cobalt]

Oh... That's probably the most marked up place

[fringe sierra]

For a software/data engineer personal website, would it be a good idea to write about nonwork topics such as color theory or personal thoughts? Edit: context is for placing links in job applications

[spark cobalt]

Why not? Your personal website should be a way for someone to "meet" you without having met you. Though if you intend your audience to be mostly for recruiters/managers/people interested in your technical background, you'd probably not make it the main character of your personal website

[fringe sierra]

I've never made a personal website for career purposes and have scraped by without putting a link in job applications, but the most recent wave of layoffs has made me question my approach. That is, I'm getting no responses and wonder if this would help

[spark cobalt]

If you're not getting responses, it's likely on the resume phase.

Can be considered that the resume is your advertisement, the website is the landing page. People wouldn't go to the landing page unless the advertisement itself was compelling enough to do so to begin with.

You can also just add tracking to your website and monitor the retention

[fringe sierra]

Fair points

[smoky quest]

it's your personal website. You can do anything you want!
In terms of hiring, it's unlikely anyone will check it out prior to late stages (and that's still not very likely)

[fringe sierra]

Haha, true. But if that's the case why make it a field in the first place

[dreamy spade]

My diploma came in the mail today but it's not enough because i didn't get a job yet.

[true harness]

I don't think I have my hs diploma

[spark cobalt]

Yeah same

[true harness]

though I think they mean a diploma from University... which we also don't have, lol

[fringe sierra]

I think job searching is going to be a non-starter as long as weekly stream of layoff announcements is going strong

[true harness]

i don't think so. certain massive companies doing layoffs doesn't affect the hiring of other companies. though it might give you more competition

[fringe sierra]

Right, it's the competition that I had in mind when writing that. Layoffs.fyi has recorded some 5digit number for march alone

[smoky quest]

hiring is still going, whether you apply or not.
The question is whether you are actively being in the applicants pool or you aren't

[spark cobalt]

At least within my circle, it seems like hiring has been starting to pick back up , not sure if this is what others are seeing as well

[pliant fiber]

I work in finance and we're hiring alot

totally not dev but hehe XD im helping

[lyric rover]

How do I know if I’m a developer? 😄

[vapid jay]

yo

[true harness]

do you develop?

[spark cobalt]

Based pfp btw

Oh jk it's not from what I thought it was from

[lyric rover]

Yes i think so

Does creating a game by having the code to generate a number until you guess that generated number right.

[hearty island]

ooh i got an email from gap for a supply chain internship

supply chain management sounds cool to me

[slate cave]

is it too late to apply for summer cs internships

[spark cobalt]

Most are closed by this time, but there's still some openings

[true harness]

in the us? no. probably almost too late, though

[pastel thunder]

is it a good idea to directly mention i need referral in connection request? it certainly impossible to develop relations then ask for referral, considering you apply at 20 positions daily

[true harness]

that sounds like a great way to not connect with people

[brittle thorn]

How much longer to wait then...maybe do volunteer work and such or go back to school for those still searching...

[deep shuttle]

a lot of smaller companies are still hiring because they didn't massively ramp up hiring during "tech booms"

big companies doing layoffs doesn't mean there are no jobs

[pastel thunder]

and how about 2 types of messages one to show I am interested in their field. then immediately ask for referral.

[true harness]

connecting with people with the sole goal of getting a referral is probably just not going to work out in general. especially if you make it immediately obvious that's why you want to connect

[deep shuttle]

yeah people don't usually appreciate being used as a means to an end haha

[spark cobalt]

Networking should generally be focused on creating long term, professional and reliable relationships. You shouldn't sacrifice this for short term benefits (and it's likely not gonna be that successful either way)

[summer roost]

referrals only work if the person doing the referring knows something about you and has some reason to put faith in you. A referral from a stranger is basically worthless.

[summer roost]

referrals work because someone who works at the company is putting their reputation on the line, telling others at the company that you'd be a good fit for the job. If I refer someone for a job and they embarrass themselves at the interview (or, worse, after accepting the job), it reflects poorly on me, so I'm not going to refer someone without already having a pretty good understanding of whether they're a good fit for the company and the role.

As a corollary, even if you do find a stranger who is willing to refer you, it probably isn't worth much. An employee who is willing to stake their reputation on someone they've never met most likely doesn't have that great a reputation in the first place.

[queen star]

Freelancer advice?

[summer roost]

at what skill/experience level?

[summer roost]

I'm not a freelancer, but I know enough to know that the advice for someone who is building websites for clients on fiverr is gonna be different from the advice for someone doing freelance database optimization consulting, or something like that.

[pastel thunder]

i now realise how much being introvert costs, i basically have no connections

[spark cobalt]

A lot of peoples connections come naturally through the workplace and being hired. Even for extroverts, it can be hard to get meaningful connections.

Though it helps if you go to tech conferences of things you're interested about. Talking with some like minded people really helps to ease out social anxiety, etc.

[tribal silo]

hi how many data science projects do i need to do to add up for my 0 experience , to get a job

[pure tundra]

hello i'm new in programming and i want to learn the basics and dont know where to start and how to start learn python basics

[vapid jay]

Work together with a recruiter. They have plenty of connections, if you get hired on a permanent contract, the company pays the fee, if you go into freelancing, they get a margin on top of the hourly rate you are looking for.

[tribal silo]

geeks4geeks or w33 schools is nice

[pure tundra]

do i have to pay? is there like free

[tribal silo]

ya its free

[pure tundra]

thank uu

[spark cobalt]

!resources there's a free book this community highly recommends. Called automate the boring stuff

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[spark cobalt]

W3 and G4G has a pretty bad reputation once you go beyond the basics. If you like the blog format, Real Python is pretty good.

[spark cobalt]

You'll have much more success having one compelling project with a good amount of depth, than some arbitrary amount of generic shallow ones. I'd recommend just stick to getting one project you're proud of first before moving to the next. Generally 2-3 is more than enough.

[pure tundra]

yh i know but is confusing for me i dont understand it

[spark cobalt]

You can use things like ChatGPT to help you learn the basics or ask questions in #1035199133436354600.

[pure tundra]

i need to start from the basics before i go for the porchect

[spark cobalt]

Automate The Boring Stuff starts at the very basics.

[tribal silo]

ya i use chatgpt to learn as well

u should try it

[spark cobalt]

ChatGPT should be supplementary. It's wrong many times, just less wrong on more basic stuff.

[hoary summit]

How should I go about finding a mentor. I am doing an internship, contributing to open source, relearning C, and applying for jobs while drilling DSA. It feels like to much in too many directions with no real progression towards employment. It feels like a brute force approach with a negative feedback loop and a more experienced person can potentially help get me out of the weeds.

[buoyant seal]

https://www.mentoring-club.com/ there are online platforms to seek them ^_^ you can try them

[frosty cape]

How likely is it for a prospective employer to ask for a portfolio of some sort?

[vapid jay]

Very likely

If not, there is most likely an assessment

[near ocean]

I've never been asked for a portfolio and I've only seen a couple job ads that mention it or request it

[true harness]

every job ad just makes it optional. I put my gh but they probably don't even look at it

[frosty cape]

Okay thanks

[merry pond]

I'm still a student, would you add a project you didnt finish on the CV? (good reason I didnt finish)

[dreamy spade]

Email from my employment consultant.

“You’re welcome to stay connected with me and I’ll check in with you periodically over the next little while, but I think having additional support with the job placement side may be beneficial as you’re working very hard but not getting the opportunity you deserve. Keep me posted and good luck!

Sincerely,”

They did everything they could to help me. This shit is sad as fuck.

[shut turret]

It's all about reaching the screening step. If there is 100 candidates applied and my CV sieved through them all because of the referral, I wouldn't care if they have bad reputation or not, I would go for it.

And getting back to the reputation. If someone you don't know asks you to pay for a referral - solid no. Otherwise - why not.

[true harness]

sure

[velvet raptor]

？

[hearty island]

sounds like what my oracle recruiter said to me

[true harness]

it sounds like they're breaking up with you. except the last part, lol. actually i'm kinda confused by this email. it sounds like they're stopping giving you help but also saying it would be beneficial if you had help

[near ocean]

Projects never "finish" otherwise we'd all be out of a job

[shut turret]

Some people are making them never finished by "refactoring" code so they can stay with the job as long as possible. I've seen such.

[buoyant seal]

what is your job title and experience for such statement?

[grand nebula]

As non native english speaker, is it common to wrote 'I hope this letter finds you well' in something like a personal letter when applying to a job.
To me it sounds very outdated, but maybe it's the norm.

[sleek egret]

it may be in the UK but not in the US

I don't know about anzac

[near ocean]

If i had to write a letter like that I'd go straight to the point tbh

[true harness]

yeah. it doesn't really matter what fluff you add

[sleek egret]

and I quote, "it's so fluffy, I'm gonna die!" => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt6FPKyQamk

[grand nebula]

Im using chatgtp to generate letters, but it always start the letters with that.

[sleek egret]

maybe... that's the problem right there

[gray lava]

Any thoughts if being in cyber security is a burnout and shit job? (P.S. I WANT TO BECOME CYBER SECURITY PROF)

[grand nebula]

Well its not for myself 🙂

[delicate bane]

"i hope this letter finds you..." is the beginning of a hamilton song lol

aka outdated

[sleek egret]

I haven't seen Hamilton

[hearty island]

my name is alexander hamiltonnnn and there's a million things i haven't done.. but just you wait

[delicate bane]

you havent? do you watch musicals?

[sleek egret]

no, I don't watch musicals

[grand nebula]

Does anyone here have any experience in reciveing applications, i.e worked with recruiting?

[true harness]

many do. why?

[grand nebula]

Im looking for someone to Judge the quality of a letter. As I've not seen many myself, its hard to know wether what is generated is good enaugh.
Im planning to have ~10 people who are looking for work and recently have created a letter try to function, to see if it similar, worse or better.

[dreamy spade]

They recommended me to another employment consultant

[true harness]

huh. why'd they do that

[true harness]

you can probably send it here and ask for a review. you can also look up templates online

[dreamy spade]

Because they did everything they could and the employment consultant they recommended me was closer to me and in my region.

[sleek egret]

perhaps you should have people who are looking to hire look at the letter instead since they are the audience you actually care about

[true harness]

oof. i hope these services don't cost too much money

[dreamy spade]

I didn’t pay anything.

[true harness]

huh. so what's their incentive to help you

[dreamy spade]

They are paid by the ministry of labour.

[true harness]

interesting. that sounds really nice actually. is there an application process to get helped? or can anyone just ask for help. do you think they're helping?

[dreamy spade]

interesting. that sounds really nice actually. is there an application process to get helped?

How I got an employment consultant in the first place was that I booked an interview preparation session with one of the career services counsellors at my college and they referred me to the employment consultant at my college.

or can anyone just ask for help. do you think they're helping?

I seriously think she did the best she could. She provided me a plethora of resources to read. Emails me almost daily about different strategies to land a job, writing cover letters, resumes and etc.

Nobody can force companies to hire them. That’s the reality.

And competition doesn’t care if you worked hard or not.

[true harness]

they referred me to the employment consultant at my college.
so does this system exist at all colleges? you mentioned they're paid by the ministry of labor, so i would think it's fairly standard across the country?

[dreamy spade]

I have no idea.

[hearty island]

i'm talking to a careers counselor at my college about my situation

[true harness]

Emails me almost daily about different strategies to land a job, writing cover letters, resumes and etc.
if you'd like, you can ask for a review again here