career-advice

[true harness]

my university

[dense mesa]

Quite a few

[dusty python]

hi, i am having a programming test in two days, it covers all things up to reading, writing and creation of files. Any suggestions?

[teal zenith]

I HAVENT talked in this server forever

also this server was made in 2018

[peak halo]

@teal zenith this is a discussion channel. please make sure all your messages are on-topic.

[teal zenith]

ok

why is python called python

[smoky quest]

The topic of this channel is #career-advice . So your question would still not be on topic 😉

[vapid jay]

Py sounds like pie and thon like ton

It means one needs tons of pie 🤪

[vapid jay]

@drifting violet dont think the degree will lock you into having an average salary. think of it as a certification which proves to companies that you know what you're doing, alongside any experience of course. it just adds credibility

and good luck with your career man. we all need it given the current state of things tbh

[spring bison]

hi, if i have a data science Msc. Can i become a python developer with the knowledge within the degree?

[midnight oyster]

How do you guys answer the questions you don’t know in an interview?

[honest pivot]

Say that you don't know. It's a conversation, not a quiz show.

[vapid jay]

I’m currently taking a Python course online and have been studying Mathematics with a tutor for the last 18 months.

I’m hoping to enrol on a computer science course at University next year, but I really don’t know much about the industry. I enjoy the art of coding and love working with numbers..

I wondered if anyone could please give me an idea of different jobs I may want to look into, for when I have finished studying?

Thanks in advance

[short solstice]

Hey, ive been interested in programming for a while and I was just wondering, do I learn a programming language or do I learn how to do the job I'm wanting to do (software development)

[coarse wharf]

wich steps do i need to follow if i want to get into cybersecuirty

[amber plume]

is NLP a part of AI or Data science?

[tawdry sparrow]

NLP is its own field that uses a lot of techniques from AI/data science.

[near ocean]

You learn how to do the job and part of that is learning how to use a programming language
In reality, using a programming language is just a tool you use, like you learn to use a hammer, its not the most important aspect of the job

[digital fjord]

Do you learn how to use a thread and needle, or do you learn how to sew a garment?

[true harness]

almost certainly

[noble kettle]

hii

[lime gale]

Please note, I'm not only coding for a living, but love it so much that I had a day job and an off-time one.

A typical day in the real world would look something like this:
You wake up at 8:30AM, you're wasted. Feels like you need a Red Bull. You gather your gear and jump in the car to drive 3.5 hours to your day job. You rock up at a health insurance company, drop your gear and login to check your reports sent from the trading system you wrote. These reports can only be run between 3am and 4am, not to interfere with the DBA's; who run scripts on your database during that time. These reports tell you whether your accounts balance, any anomalies etc. All good, you smile and get coffee heading straight back to your desk as you have to find a solution to your scheduler, also a system you are writing. You have been sitting with this issue for 2 weeks now. The problem is that your scheduler has some configuration settings that need to be shared between threads, these settings can be updated during execution of a report. You somehow can't seem to get the threads to refresh the cached configuration settings. You put your headphones on when you arrived with your coffee and start researching, history repeats itself. Someone somewhere has had this exact issue or something similar, you need to find it. Test it. You look up from your monitor, and see that the building is empty. It's 19:00, and you need to move, your health system (off-time job) client is awaiting functionality to test from home. You haven't started yet, you gather your gear and move to your car, at least by now traffic looks better, and it takes you 1 hour to get home. You drop your gear and start focusing on the Front End Web application you built for GP's until 3am. Sleep. Rinse and repeat.

[buoyant seal]

Alternative version:
U wake up at some time between 9 to 13 hours in the morning.
Eating food, washing face and enabling your PC.

Checking Slack messages, responding to stuff, responding to things u were unblocked. Continuing current task.

Latest task was a bit long one.
Around a bit more than one week of research, with testing different theories until good solution was found.
Then one day to write code and day to refactor.
Happily submitting results when it passes CI pipeline of tests and going to next task

During evenings and weekends and other free time, u self educate yourself with books, doing pet projects(which are usually open source). And just communicating with other tech people to find out further directions for Continuous Learning.

[alpine dock]

Hello

[buoyant seal]

Some claritifcation. That was kind of day when i am just picking up already defined (at some degree at least) tasks dev. When regular soldier dev kind of.
That when project is new one and I am luckily having first role to design it, there are different additional duties
like writing user usage cases, speaking with client about end desired result, drawing sketches of UI, also drawing how infrastrcture/database tables would be looking
only after that lining it up into tasks to complete for minimal viable product and what would be scheduled for future releases and then commencing their implementations.

Technically for really briefly defined tasks there are still kind of similar duties present. Just at much smaller scale / smaller scope of view.

[granite monolith]

hi

[forest solstice]

Hey, I recently started coding and I love AI so I've been wanting to learn what you guys would recommend as someone that ultimately would like to work in AI.

I'm obvs still a beginner but I've heard that at the very least I should be proficient in Python, C and Java for a back end dev. (I'm assuming I will need to gain some exp before any company wants me or I have any idea on how to code AI. Therefore I figured back-end dev would be closest to what I'd do for an AI project.).
Before I start university I am giving myself a year to learn as much as I can and wether this is what I really want.

[lapis wind]

With AI I imagine 90% of jobs are going to be around Python, so you definitely want to learn the big libraries around it (in order of importance of learning IMO):

• Numpy (Matrices, arrays, etc...)
• Pandas/Dask (Dataframes, very common for raw data loading and manipulation)
• sklearn (Data utilities)
• matplotlib (graph plotting)
• Tensorflow or PyTorch or both.
• OpenCV

There are probably some i've missed but those are the 'big' ones you'll need really.
As a bear minimum you will want to learn about numpy and be very comfortable with using it as it generally holds up most things you do with data science/ai in python in some way.

Also worth noting that probably the hardest thing is going to be the theory side of stuff, learning how to use the libraries won't be anywhere near as hard as understanding the maths involved and why certain things affect things.

[peak halo]

you can just develop your general programming skills before you start university. but once you start university, make sure that you're taking as many AI-oriented courses as you can. And plan to probably do grad school as well.

[peak halo]

PyTorch is winning, so that's the one I would encourage people to learn. I think Tensorflow will eventually go away, and it will be PyTorch vs Jax. And OpenCV is for computer vision. They might not go that direction.

[lapis wind]

Yeah I get that sort of vibe as well. The last time I did much stuff with TF the discussions were largely around people not agreeing with the changes that they did to TF 3 vs 2.
Also it's apparently much easier to wrap PyTorch than TF although that's less of a Python related thing.

[forest solstice]

Oh alrighty, uni has a concentration for AI I'll mostly do that.

[south socket]

Hi guys, I think there are many experts here!

[south socket]

You can add seaborn and scipy

[south socket]

You need to love programming. Actually I believe programmers are more artists than scientists. they create tools with logic and innovation. But not all of them. 😂

[summer roost]

You definitely don't. I think that's a really unhealthy attitude to have, actually. I mean, sure, it's nice to love what you do and want to do it every minute of every day, but that's absolutely not a requirement of the job. Obviously you shouldn't choose a career that you hate if you can avoid it, but it is OK to choose one that you feel pretty neutral about, and that you just don't mind doing every day.

[south socket]

Actually I try to do something like designing، reading books and exercising. You are right. we need to care for our health, like drinking water a lot or walking. definitely a healthy work-life balance can improve your physical, emotional and mental health. It's difficult but not impossible!

[summer roost]

yeah. The people who absolutely love coding and want to do it all day, day in and day out, are often the ones who wind up experiencing burnout, as the tedium of having only one thing that they do all the time eventually wears them down. And they often wind up doing extra work for the company for free, because solving the problem becomes more important to them than maintaining a work/life balance.

[gilded valley]

I'm not sure why people put programming up on a pedestal as though it's some unique thing that you can only do if you love it - it's no different to any other skill/job in that you don't have to love it

No one expects accountants to love accounting

[summer roost]

and saying that you must love programming to do the job is a type of gatekeeping.

[south socket]

I didn't mean you must love programming. I mean "if you love your work, if you enjoy it, you're already a success."

[summer roost]

like I said, I don't think even that is entirely true. There are definitely advantages to loving your job, but there are disadvantages and pitfalls as well.

[alpine dock]

I'm new to this coding and stuff, I don't know if I like it or hate it , I barely know C++ and had bad experience with it , I just want to get into coding and wanna have a good career outta it and I'm thinking about starting with python, Do you guys have any suggestions ?!

[summer roost]

That's not really on topic for this channel, but suffice to say that Python is a much, much, much easier first language to learn than C++. I'm not convinced there's any other programming language in common use that's as complex as C++.

[buoyant seal]

xD i realized i don't like it too later. After switching to C# you gain things similar but magnitude nicer and more comfortable
Gone were problems with *pointers pitifalls
Instead you gain nicely working intellisense in the way that it is intuitively easy to guess how to write code without googling it (in both choices it happened in visual studio)

[leaden knot]

Beginner C++ is beginner. (sum all elements arrays is still easy, for example) It's only when you have to do things like taking library functionality (sockets? visualisation shortcuts?) for granted where C++ is probably not the preferred way.

[summer roost]

even beginners are quickly exposed to complex things - taking your "sum all elements in an array" for instance, you can't pass an array to a function as an argument in C++.

[leaden knot]

sure you can... unless you mean things C-like arrays like int[]?

[summer roost]

yes, I meant "arrays"

[leaden knot]

I'm pretty sure it's standard to use the C++ Array class instead

[summer roost]

would you rather take this to an off-topic channel, or drop it?

[leaden knot]

To get back on topic, I think C++ and Python are fine to start hand-in-hand or Python-exclusive is fine as well. As has been alluded to, I don't recommend C++-only unless you know what you are getting into

Career-wise I'd think C++ is more irreplaceable though

[smoky quest]

careerwise, c++ has become pretty niche and don't really need to know about it unless you are touching said niches

[summer roost]

it's still one of the main 3 languages used by Google. There are plenty of large enterprise codebases built using C++, so it's not a skill that's going to become worthless anytime soon - though, it's not the first choice of language for new projects for most companies anymore, even companies that already have extensive C++ codebases

[smoky quest]

Even for google, there is a huge ego stroking component to it and would not represent the market

[summer roost]

perhaps. But there's also many companies who mimic Google without any regard to whether what Google is doing would make any sense for them 😄

[lapis wind]

I mean.. What other languages are there really that google can use?

C#? - Doesn't have the same performance and control, even if that mattered it's made my Microsoft.
Java - Oracle
Python - Too slow, impossible to maintain at that scale
C? - Could be, but there was a reason why C++ became popular successor to C

[smoky quest]

No one cares about Oracle in java-land, unless you try to appropriate the language

[summer roost]

Google's other 2 primary languages are Java and Python

[lapis wind]

True, loosely it has the same issues as C# but I couldn't resist the dig of the old Oracle jokes.

[lapis wind]

I know, my point was that at the time most of it was written, the bits that are C++ realistically, didn't have any other suitable languages that could have been used let alone ones which provided enough of a pull factor to actually consider switching to.

[smoky quest]

That would be a fallacy though.
Considering many planet scale companies are happy on the jvm/.net and the most popular high performance distributed systems are on the jvm

And that's diving into the backend side. The market includes other segments like frontend, ml and plenty others

[gilded valley]

Is this question really related to careers at this point? It seems to be fairly distant

[lapis wind]

It's definitely drifted

[alpine dock]

Guys I'm still waiting for appropriate response 😅, is there any other channel for this kinda question?, I apologise I'm fairly new here, Idk I just typed in my problem in this channel.

[summer roost]

I did answer you, here 👆

but that's not on topic for this channel. If you're looking for a discussion, try #python-discussion

[oak wasp]

guys i have question, how much is salary in your country for junior software developers? pls tell me in dollar

might it depends on language but approximately

[smoky quest]

That's something easier to find online like on levels.fyi, glassdoors or indeed or linkedin.
It will depend on the role, location and education level

[gilded valley]

Glassdoor or any given country's statistics authority will be a better place to get that information

The bureau of labor statistics in the US publishes data for salaries of "software developers" in the US

[smoky quest]

also if it helps, as a new grad in the USA, you would expect 100k+$

[orchid brook]

how hard is it to get an internship at jpmorgan or bank of america or goldman sachs or capital one or citibank etc

i know it’s very challenging but is it faang ish challenging? Like do you have to master leetcode and be the best to get in? Are there any “known” companies that don’t have such a strict/competitive interview process?

[gilded valley]

In the UK, significantly less challenging than FAANG. I'd guess it's the same in the US

[orchid brook]

hmm so I’d assume known companies that are still forbes 500 but not big N or finance based should be even less challenging?

[gilded valley]

Finance or not doesn't really enter into it too much. What realistically matters is specific companies

[orchid brook]

hmm gotcha

[gilded valley]

E.g Disney is almost certainly better to work at than Experian

[orchid brook]

since i havent taken data structures and algo yet im scared of leetcode tbh so all i have is personality based interview and experience

[smoky quest]

It also depends on the department. I have interviewed (and know) a few folks from banks that sounded more like a retirement home (not all the departments were like that though)

[gilded valley]

... you can also just go learn how to do leetcode

[lapis wind]

Generally speaking interview leetcode question aren't that bad most of the time

[orchid brook]

i know, but right now theres a lot on my plate class/project wise so I’ll try that Junior year hopefully

so ig companies that do not have leetcode style interviews but are still relevant names should be good choices?

[smoky quest]

It's just fear of the unknown.
If you want a gentle introduction, do some codingame.com once in a while as they are more centered around games. And then some leetcode, starting with easy ones, to dip your feet

[orchid brook]

i know :( it just scares me tbh i wish id never have to practice leetcode lol

[gilded valley]

For internships, refusing to learn basic leetcode is needlessly hamstringing yourself

[smoky quest]

There is correlation between the quality of the place and the quality of the interview.
If you are looking for easy interviews, that also means the people who got in had it easy and may or may not be able to get in more difficult places

[orchid brook]

is basic leetcode enough for a sophomore?

[smoky quest]

no. You are competing with many other students

[gilded valley]

What does enough mean? If you want to work somewhere terrible where you're the webscraping monkey for 6 weeks, then probably

[orchid brook]

there was a microsoft campus recruiter who reached out for this sophomore/freshman program, and the technical interview is leetcode easy

but im scared because what if i do really bad

[gilded valley]

Go practice leetcode til you're happy doing leetcode easy questions

[orchid brook]

but as a sophomore having an internship at a known/relevant company matters a lot right?

[smoky quest]

Then you don't get it. You also don't get it if you don't apply. But you will have learned more about the type of questions being asked and where you need to improve

[orchid brook]

Can I use C to practice? I’m in computer engineering and im more familiar with C than other languages

[zinc tendon]

You don’t need an internship to land a good job. It helps a lot def tho

[orchid brook]

i can manage the experience part, im just not the best at competitive programming or grinding

like i can fill my resume with shining meaningful projects and grades and experience but i cant survive competitions :(

[smoky quest]

Interviews and leetcode are about demonstrated skills, not competition

[zinc tendon]

Okay and you were awful at programming when you were first learning. It takes time and effort to get good at

[gilded valley]

No one here is your interviewer or professor. Go look at leetcode's UI and it will answer that question.

The simple fact is that if you want a decent internship it is worth your time to go practice, not to dither about whether you're practicing right or whether it's a waste of effort or whether you'll ever be good enough. Just go put in time.

[orchid brook]

right, I should start practicing now tbh

because eventually i will have to practice anyway if i want to get into big tech, theres no escape

but for my sophomore year summer should I even try for big tech? Or should I aim for realistic companies?

Would you guys take a look at my resume to see if im even good enough to apply anywhere?

@gilded valley

[rugged magnet]

Why wouldn’t you send a black screen and that’s it?

[orchid brook]

sorry

[summer roost]

you don't "fail" an interview. It's not a test of your knowledge. The worst case scenario is that the company decides that the skills you have are not a good match for the position they're trying to fill. That may be because you don't have many skills, sure - but it may also just be because the skills that you do have aren't the ones they need. Or that, of the skills you do have, the ones that are best developed aren't the ones that the company most needs.

[smoky quest]

Let's not crosspost ads. Thanks!

[summer roost]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[smoky quest]

They are cross posting at least in #python-discussion and #pedagogy and #networks and etc.

[harsh hinge]

!rule 8 3

[inner wren]

:x: Invalid rule indices: 10

[native oar]

!rule34

[harsh hinge]

!rule 8 3

[inner wren]

Rules

3. Respect staff members and listen to their instructions.

8. Do not help with ongoing exams. When helping with homework, help people learn how to do the assignment without doing it for them.

[long hinge]

Hello , i would like to know what a CS student should know before asking for an internship.

I am following the frensh teaching system so this is my first year student somthing other than python , we did a lot of math in the first two years.

So i am not so confident about the knownledge that i need to have.

[gilded valley]

Yes, you can post your CV here for feedback

[buoyant seal]

And we would ask you, for which job role

To have clear path, u need to have clear goals

[blazing furnace]

Should I do CS study in abroad or in India

[lilac quail]

India computer science schools are not bad 🙂 There are also tons of them

[lilac quail]

Your school will probably get you internships no?

[supple falcon]

I like the new server icon 🤲🌐

[vapid jay]

Anyone who's a beginner in PYTHON just like me?

Also, I want to know about the benefits for having a CS degree.

[peak halo]

A CS degree is the main credential that established organizations look for in new-career programmers. Those same organizations often offer internships that CS students can do over the summer, which are almost always paid.

[vapid jay]

So, does it mean that a CS degree holder have an edge over a person who doesn't have it. If so, how much!

[peak halo]

For established companies and government agencies, applicants for programming positions who don't have a relevant degree might not even be considered. And for most programming positions, a CS degree is the most relevant degree.

[vapid jay]

I see...

BTW, does the institute/university matter?

[peak halo]

The reputation of a CS department is usually based on how influential their research is. (Because a lot of research into, say, artificial intelligence, is coming from computer science professors.) It usually isn't based on the quality of their undergraduate instruction. That said, any accredited university should do.

[vapid jay]

oh...TYSM brother for answering my doubts.

[eternal mist]

Can someone recommend me a career path in AI

I think I now want to focus in computer vision

[remote crater]

Does it look bad if there's a repository for college assignments on your GitHub page?

[molten comet]

Hi everyone. I am learning python but i have a confusion that which code editor should i use pycharm or vs code?

[buoyant seal]

This question potentially can only get answers in holy war fashion. Nevertheless I will recommend vscode first for being more lightweight universal solution, which is not requiring to pay for its functionality
(Vscode offers for free stuff that is blocked as premium in pycharm)
(Vscode electron (or its analog) is ten times faster and lighter than java machine engine of pycharm)

[near ocean]

No, how else would you show your uni work?
Bigger projects like your capstone or thesis definitely should be in there imho

[remote crater]

It's only one intro class

I mean that's the only college repository in there

[fluid elm]

hello

[remote crater]

There's other stuff too

[near ocean]

Its really up to you, i personally wouldnt bother with small uni things

[fluid elm]

To be honest, code on whatever ide you like.

[peak halo]

I wouldn't, because people might think you're trying to help people cheat in the future.

[remote crater]

It's only in there because the teacher required us to post on github

[buoyant seal]

It is still kind of bad idea installing Visual Studio of 30 GB size despite being an option for Python. Or coding in notepad++ despite being an option

[fluid elm]

Makes sense but... up to you. And probably you won't make a dumb choice, right?

[buoyant seal]

It is easier to Google and to ask, and making a choice based on some information than wasting time on trying multiple solutions, using time to getting used to them
Time is money

[fluid elm]

Stack overflow!

[plucky zenith]

someone know how to bypass an admin privilege????

[near ocean]

No and also inappropriate to even ask

[plucky zenith]

bruh

[buoyant seal]

Reddit is kind of nice in comparison questions: "Reddit vscode Vs pycharm", similar for any other technology, databases, monitoring and etc

[fluid elm]

🤣 sarcasm 'Time is money'

[plucky zenith]

i need it to install autodesk inventor

[fluid elm]

Well... Reddit on top, stackoverflow is nice too, idk about quora its decent tho.

[near ocean]

You dont and this isnt the right channel anyway

[plucky zenith]

oh mb

[molten comet]

Thnks

[graceful mason]

If you have a license (work, uni student) then it's worth using pycharm

[buoyant seal]

Not worth, because it creates unnecessary dependency on proprietary software

[vapid jay]

If you want to cook food on your laptop sure use it

Vscode is pain enough at least its decent

[buoyant seal]

Besides vscode I hear people make magic out of neovim. Intellisense at least is present. Not sure how much stuff is there

[graceful mason]

what dependency?

[buoyant seal]

Pycharm

[graceful mason]

You can switch between IDEs whenever you want...?

[buoyant seal]

It takes time to get used and find comfortable workflow in IDE. A long time.

[lapis wind]

This is probably a bit off topic for this channel, but it's personal preference, just use what ever ide you like using

[graceful mason]

Honestly you should be comfortable with any industry standard IDEs for whatever your career is
For python that means VSC + Pycharm
Most concepts/tools are shared between all IDEs - if there is a lot that you can do in Pycharm and not VSC (so are unable to easily move between them) then isn't that a case to use one over the other?

[buoyant seal]

As far as I know last time working with containers was paid feature only in pycharm. It is free in vscode. Should I say more?

Plus vscode is universal tool for any additional sub tools needed in development, terraform highlighting and etc

[vapid jay]

Vscode is on a whole new level

[gilded valley]

Editor talk clearly doesn't belong here.

[steep stratus]

lol

[long hinge]

I want to do AI but i am still farm from learning that.

[long hinge]

It will but if i want better companies i need to find them on my own.

[brave matrix]

@sour tartan these are two largest projects I've made to date:
https://github.com/shner-elmo/TradeZero_API
https://github.com/shner-elmo/pandas-db
with Pandas-db being the most recent

Let me know what you think

[sour tartan]

these are interesting-sized projects.

[brave matrix]

big enough ?

[sour tartan]

hard to say. depends on the employer and the job

[peak halo]

I'm a bit confused by pandas-db. This code looks quite clean, but how is it better than using pandas' native SQL tools?

[sour tartan]

@brave matrix btw, I would not make Time a class. it's just two functions.

[buoyant seal]

comment to TradeZero API, selenun can run in headless mode without need to have opened window
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/53657215/running-selenium-with-headless-chrome-webdriver
Correct version of chrome still needs to be installed though

feel free to use latest my code when i used headless chrome selenium. it has correct settings mentioned https://github.com/darklab8/darklab_darkbot/blob/master/OLD_CODE/src/forum_parser.py

[brave matrix]

I take great care about clean code, thanks!
the nice thing about it is that you dont need to load anything onto memory, so essentially the 'db' object/instance only stores the sqlite connection and the table names (as attributes which allow for auto-complete), you can get min, max, median, etc. directly from SQL with just a method and you can easily convert a table object to DataFrame or a column to Series,
Meanwhile with pandas you need to create an SQL connection and then you can pass the conn + table_name to the function and it returns a dataframe, so its easier to have an instance of the database with all the tables and columns, and if you find smth interesting that you want to analyzed in pandas you just do: db.table.to_df()

[brave matrix]

Right, that was a long time ago, but now I would move them both to seperate functions

[sour tartan]

good to hear 🙂

[brave matrix]

yep, if you look at the __init__ there is a headless option

[buoyant seal]

well, u have outdated readme then

[brave matrix]

the readme is correct, but I try to keep it simple so you have the essentials to get started

[brave matrix]

but what do you think in general ? am I qualified for a entry/junior position, or do you think I need to learn first other libraries first to be productive on the job

[sour tartan]

it really depends on the employer, and how much support they want to give you.

[true harness]

why not look at job postings of jobs you're interested in and check the requirements? they would know much better than any of us

[brave matrix]

Really thanks for all the advice, I'll go back and make the readme clearer and if I dont get back many answers from employers I will learn some more libraries, cheers

[brave matrix]

the issue is that they list massive requirements for junior positions which Ik for a fact there is almost nobody with no experience that has all those, so its hard to know what theyre really looking for, and for what will they settle

[true harness]

sure, but that's definitely a better guideline than we can give. also, i don't know of a good lower bound on what % of requirements you should meet, but it's certainly not 100%. maybe someone with more experience can weigh in on this

[pliant fulcrum]

!voice verify

[inner wren]

Voice verification

Can’t talk in voice chat? Check out #voice-verification to get access. The criteria for verifying are specified there.

[buoyant seal]

that's kind of common everywhere 🙂

[summer roost]

I like this explanation: the "requirements" listed for a job aren't actually requirements, they're attributes that the ideal candidate would have. The further away you are from being that ideal candidate, the less likely you are to be hired for that role. But, at the same time, the company wants to fill the position, so they'll often pick someone who isn't perfect for a role, rather than allowing that role to sit open. You don't have to be a perfect candidate, just closer to it than the other candidates.

[delicate bane]

sometimes the requirements become truly ridiculous — which led to that one post from the creator of fastapi going super viral

[dreamy saddle]

should I learn Data Base Managements System before going to Dimensional Modeling?

[vapid jay]

That and the interviews.

Employers are losing their minds

[gritty crystal]

i been thinking can i take software engineering, computer science if im bad at math?

[smoky quest]

Most people make it worse than it is.
Also note that college/university level math is a lot more interesting as it's more grounded.

So I wouldn't worry about it and don't let it hold you back! You may actually enjoy it!

[smoky quest]

You can find examples of weird job ads, the same way you can find examples of weird applicants. The difference is you can't really speak publicly about the weird applicants and it won't win as many Internet points

[vapid jay]

Are you some sort of a recruiter?

[smoky quest]

no

Would it be a bad thing?

[gritty crystal]

are u taking computer science in college or graduated?

[smoky quest]

lol am too old for that

[limpid marlin]

Can someone guide me regarding career aspects that python provides ?
What are the demanding python careers today ?

[gritty crystal]

uh that means?

[smoky quest]

python is a general programming language and is used for many things. The most two popular roles are related to backend and ML. But it's also used in may other places

[limpid marlin]

Backend Flask/Django or any other ?

[smoky quest]

sure

[smoky quest]

webscraping has nothing to do with ML

[limpid marlin]

ML is very vast field but still where can I start from (for ML) ?

[smoky quest]

#data-science-and-ml has some resources

[smoky quest]

I would recommend https://www.amazon.com/Hands-Machine-Learning-Scikit-Learn-TensorFlow-dp-1492032646/dp/1492032646/

[limpid marlin]

Data Science, Data Mining and ML are they related by any means ?

[gritty crystal]

is it too late for me to learn programming or i shouldve been learning them when i was little or even though i learn it late can i still be the best programmer ?

[smoky quest]

it's never too late

[gritty crystal]

i see thanks

[spiral swift]

I'm about to have a pay negotiation call, what do you guys think would be a good hourly rate for an EU startup with less than 5 employees, no seed or pre-seed funding yet, but in the process of getting one.

PS: I'm not in EU

[smoky quest]

probably your local rate or lower and some options to make it up (if employee and not contractor)

[buoyant seal]

it is kind of depending on your current skill level / specializations / what for you were hired for.

[vapid jay]

Also total compensation doesnt always equal pay, and a high pay doesnt equal a good deal always.

[spiral swift]

Python Engr position and also as a contractor.

[spiral swift]

Okay thanks, I'm thinking of going with the minimum hourly rate of the country the company is situated in

[brave matrix]

EU rates are pretty low compared to america...

in part because they pay some of the taxes directly from your salary, but if your not a citizen I'm not sure how your gonna get the benefits of that, so thats smth to consider as well

[spiral swift]

Yeah this is true, they also mentioned so and but they are going to be dealing with me as an entity ( company) not an individual, hence a contractor.

[spring bison]

Do you guys think I can apply for data science msc with a biomedical science bsc??

[gilded valley]

ask the university in question - clearly they will know their own application process better than random people on a random discord

[spring bison]

i asked and they told me to do a full application to see if it works 🤣

thats why i came here to see if anyone have experience of that

[gilded valley]

In general you're going to get more out of a question if you put more into a question. Including the context that you've asked them, and they didn't give a reply is pretty valuable. Giving some context about the specific MSc in question is also pretty important - as is, no one can offer anything beyond vague opinions that aren't going to be much better than noise

[spring bison]

ok their entry requirement asked for bsc in either math, engineering or science. So i sent an email to ask them if they accept biomedical science applicants since it is a science bsc and they told me to do a full application to find out

I couldnt find anything related on google, so I came here to find some luck

[gilded valley]

from the sounds of it, there was some miscommunication with your email. A biomedical science degree clearly sounds like a valid science degree, I can't see any real reason for there to be any doubt - it might be that they interpreted your email as "will I get in" vs "will my application be considered"

[spring bison]

yea it is definitely a science degree, but i feel like most unis are looking for math based science bsc like physics

so i think applying with biomedical science may not be accepted, even they say science

anyone have experience applying to data science msc with non math/IT based bsc?

[tardy thistle]

why are all of you in this group, my dad wants to know, what do you guys get out of this

[near ocean]

Its a python server for people interested in python the programming language

[tardy thistle]

any value yall get from this? again, im only asking because my dad dosent understand the point of all this

[digital fjord]

explaining things is the best way to really affirm your understanding of a concept, seeing interesting things people have done or run into, helping people is fun, lots of reasons.

[tardy thistle]

and i want to prove to him that all of this infact is valuable, but he only has to question everything, like "why do people join this? why will they interact? why wont they just go to google?" Please answer these for him because i have had a terrible headache arguing with him, ill be really grateful to yall

[slim rain]

basically it is a communication place , we dont always get something from here , some people here to search , entertainment , understand etc.

[gilded valley]

if this isn't about careers specifically, surely it belongs #python-discussion

[digital fjord]

my bad, I thought this was #community-meta

[tardy thistle]

anyone?]

[digital fjord]

@tardy thistleplease move your message to #python-discussion, it isn't on topic for this channel

[tardy thistle]

okay thank you

[shadow moss]

I know people who successfully have. This one is truly apply and find out.

[near ocean]

I got a friend that got into an MSc Data Science with an econ degree from a different country so its certainly possible

[surreal crane]

guys can I ask what is the best course I get in collage? BSCS or BSIT??

which is the best?

[near ocean]

Can you expand on what those are and what country is this for?

[surreal crane]

Philippines

[true harness]

there's not enough information. you haven't described what the courses are, what you want to learn, what your career goals are, etc, etc, etc

[vapid jay]

My cousin does biomed do you guys not have cpp and embedded systems done. They will considrr it

[vapid jay]

Software engineering good, cs bad.

CS is trivial if not fully implemented in software engineering, like maths and physics.

[vapid jay]

You can i think. Tough im not sure. Why do you want data science anyway

[true harness]

a blanket statement like this is not very helpful. we don't even know the differences between the two in this case

[near ocean]

CS is trivial? In what way and what level

laughs in highest dropout rate out of all of uni courses

[true harness]

i think that's inflated based on a lot of people pursuing it for money, tbh. compared to other engineering courses, CS looks pretty easy

[vapid jay]

Esoteric maths is trivial. Its similar to the analogy written in an apology of mathematics. Most of the physicists are mathematicians so they are not really a fan of how it affects real world. They are caught within their heads of numbers and logic. But unless an information is applied for solutions its as good as nonexistant. Software engineering it applicable and practical.

[vapid jay]

I switched from physics to cs because it was easy and more jobs

[true harness]

But unless an information is applied for solutions its as good as nonexistant.
that's so wrong it's laughable. so many theoretical things are developed without a care for practical application. eventually they might find practical use, or they might not, but they serve to improve understanding such that other things might be discovered, practical or not. as a good example, blu-ray disks. the scientists involved weren't doing it because they wanted a better way to store movies lol

[near ocean]

Why would people drop out if its profitable and trivial then?

[true harness]

Esoteric maths is trivial
we might have different definitions of "trivial"

[vapid jay]

You could argue they can help in the discovery of more clever algorithms that might be useful in certain cases. Tough I doubt anything revolutionary is gonna come out of mathematics rather than physics discovery any time soon

[true harness]

often times physics discoveries are found through new development of mathematical techniques

[vapid jay]

Current cs/mathematics is more than enough for the discoveries of the next decade. We just need more physicists and funding.

[true harness]

either way, we're drifted far from the topic of which major to pick

[vapid jay]

Sure

[covert plaza]

Just watched a video of a guy saying that for entry jobs, one should focus on front end, and from there learn the rest. What people with experience on this have to say?

[digital fjord]

I mean, it would probably work, but I know a lot of people who got internships and entry level jobs very easily for topics that aren't frontends (myself included).

[smoky quest]

If you are in HS or college age, going for a cs degree is the most common and rewarding path

[covert plaza]

I'm afraid I'm way past that. lol.

[gilded valley]

in general, videos where someone is saying some path is an easy way to beat the crowd aren't great sources of advice

[covert plaza]

Currently at 34. Although I'm thinking about a CS Degree just for the possilibity of masters and more important to me, phd after.

[gilded valley]

What's your current form of work? What are you actually looking for wrt CS/Software engineering?

[covert plaza]

I just dont want to wait to get the bachelor's degree to start working with it. Working imo, is the best source to get knowledge quick.

[covert plaza]

I dont have a job.

But the main reason to go for CS is some pet projects that I would have involving quite alot of programming. And, to be fair, I'm thinking about making my own company.

[gilded valley]

Bootcamps seem like an option that might be worth investigating. A huge advantage is the networking you get from them in a comparatively short amount of time

Here's a reasonable blogpst+discussionhttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31229504

leesec

My experience getting a tech job with no degree or relevant work experience

Hacker News · May 1, 2022, 10:50 PM

[covert plaza]

I want to go for like a 3-5 years of a job, while doing some of the side projects. And when I feel that my knowledge is good enough to run alone, I'd do it. I have knowledge on PHP, PostgreSQL and intermediate on Frontend. But its been a long time since I learned it, and I thought that if I was going to relearn PHP, it would be better to just start a new one.

[covert plaza]

Thank you, will look into it.

[near ocean]

you might wanna be a bit more specific as to what kind of tips youre looking for, what industry are you applying to, etc

[coral dawn]

Guys, for jobs which will you recommend?
Laravel, django, dotnet?

I am planning on learning one of these.

[ivory sluice]

depends on the company, are you a student?

laravel is a dying horse, i don't think anyone would recommend it

[vapid jay]

I took up ML and I don’t even want to work in this anymore

[final jolt]

Well, at least now you know you don't like ML

[spring bison]

yea i will try! I started having fun doing cs50 on edx, then i found out data science is a combination of maths/statistic and programming, and i enjoy learn both of them. Im also doing the IBM data science professional certificate to learn some basic and prepare for the msc

Also i like the idea of working with maths/programming and wanna work from home

[brazen epoch]

Hey guys, is physics important in programming world?

[final jolt]

It's kinda important in gamedev, but in the big scope of all programming? No

assuming you mean "Important to getting/keeping a job"?

[vapid jay]

I would think it important if you're doing programming in the physics world.

[brazen epoch]

Yes, something like that, and what about math? I heard someone said it's not needed too

[final jolt]

It depends what section of the industry you work in

if you're just getting your foot in the door for a Web fullstack position, the most math you'll probably use is add,subtract,multiply,divide

data science / data analytics is gonna be a different story

[vapid jay]

Math is definitely a fundamental thing to understand however you do not need a phd in calculus to be a successful programmer.

Programming is a lot of boolean work for sure.

[brazen epoch]

Ok thx a lot guys, those subjects take a lot of time to learn

[vapid jay]

I'd say pick a language, then find something useful in real life to do with the language, then code it. Because it is real life you will have a fundamental understanding of the totality of what you're trying to accomplish rather than some abstract tutorial you found online.

[final jolt]

Big agree with above. You'll figure out what you need to know as you start working on a real problem

try working on making a piece of software that solves a problem in your everyday life, and then as you build it you'll discover what you don't know. Learn that

[vapid jay]

I tried for many years and failed to learn Python. Couldn't see a need beyond my bash at the time. Then a friend offered to translate my bash to Python. Game on 🙂

and now "they" pay me to write code all day.

[brazen epoch]

All my project rn is about math, i can't think of any other

[final jolt]

Math is a great starting point for writing software

[vapid jay]

Python is great for math. Numpy for the hard and complicated stuff.

[final jolt]

the first project I was proud of was a graphing calculator I wrote which helped me automate my Algebra homework

[brazen epoch]

I actually wanna do something with linear algebra, still learning rn from gilbert strang lectures

[vapid jay]

Reminds me of that time I failed AlgebraII, twice. Back then I had a TI-85. While everyone else was playing the drug dealer game, snake, etc... I was coding the program that would solve the math homework we were being assigned.

My issue was that the input was too slow and I wasn't knowledgeable of anything beyond what I could find in those days online. Ended up failing because my development pace was too slow to keep up with the teaching pace.

Flunked out. Tried a 2nd time but was more interested in programming than I was in caring about learning new math.

Kind of sparked me a bit I'd suppose.

2n+2 stuff and series math. I think that was the last bit of Algebra I ever learned

[brazen epoch]

Hey you give me ideas, i suddenly want to make sequences program

[vapid jay]

For non precise math where lives are not on the line or money is not a thing, use normal operators in Python. Beyond that make sure you understand what "math" does in the code you use.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14120340/python-error-in-basic-subtraction

See https://floating-point-gui.de/basic/ and specifically:

That depends on what kind of calculations you’re doing.

If you really need your results to add up exactly, especially when you work with money: use a special decimal datatype.
If you just don’t want to see all those extra decimal places: simply format your result rounded to a fixed number of decimal places when displaying it.
If you have no decimal datatype available, an alternative is to work with integers, e.g. do money calculations entirely in cents. But this is more work and has some drawbacks.

Also know that in Powershell you ought use $null to the left of the operator...

Aside from that, as far as career progression goes I would highly recommend to make a public repo of your work. Show things that you've done, stuff that has actual impact, not just a lesson followed blindly online.

[coral dawn]

Guys,
between dotnet and django(or smth similar), which would you suggest?
I want to learn only one and get job on a company. I already have little experience in cpp and python ML. I think dotnet is good because it is multiplatform. But i am not exactly sure about the job market and salary range of both.

[vapid jay]

Both are very good, learn which ever you want. Dotnet is very widespread as well, and django is used along with other webframeworks too.

C# is on the rise currently too

[near ocean]

Depends entirely on your location
If you were in london i would suggest dotnet 100% but this may not be the case everywhere

[lapis wind]

Tbf basically if you're in the UK, dotnet. Although I would recommend learning NET framework and IIS Express as part of what you decide, because in the UK generally speaking, most c# things you'll run into will be legacy Framework code.

[graceful mason]

If you do embedded/robotics/mechatronics etc it's important too

[vapid jay]

In uk rn and django is popular as well as fastapi. Dotnet as you said maybe legacy

[lapis wind]

On average i'd say C# is still leaps and bounds more popular than Python in the UK, especially for any sort of large projects

[iron rock]

Hello guys what should I learn in programming other than python to land a job easily in the UK, am one month into learning python now, thank you.

[near ocean]

You should read a couple of messages above yours

[iron rock]

Ok thank you very much @near ocean

Am not in the UK yet, but am visiting at the end of the month. I would like to work in the UK and so am asking to know my chances in securing a job before my visitor visa expires.

[near ocean]

Visitor and work visa are different afaik
You cant get a job with a visitor visa so it doesnt really matter if youre here

[iron rock]

Yes true, If could be really good at programming I hope to get sponsored by a company for the work visa

[near ocean]

I think your expectations are unrealistic if you think you can land a job with one month's worth of python and a new tech you pick up starting now

What other experience do you have?

[iron rock]

Thank you very much for this insight

[near ocean]

And also why the UK specifically?

[iron rock]

I am have a bachelors degree in aerospace engineering

[iron rock]

Because, I have been sponsored to visit a monastery in the UK for a two-month internship and my family expects me to not return back home😂😂so get a job in the uk or anywhere else except Kenya

[near ocean]

One month to find a job sounds way too short if you dont already have years of experience or a visa

First thing people ask nowadays is whether you have right to work

[iron rock]

I just graduated(July 2022), no experience at all

[iron rock]

Yes I see that in many jobs’ listings

I guess there's no hope for me

[lapis wind]

in 1 month? It's unlikely. You can still apply to companies though, and if they're willing to sponsor your visa, then you're good.

But getting a job + visa sorted in 1 month is probably not physically possible

[near ocean]

Why does your family have such expectations for you? Sounds like a family issue more than a career issue really

[iron rock]

😂😂😂not an issue, Kenya's different. They think am their ticket to better living, you know.

[iron rock]

Thanks for the input👌👊

[iron rock]

I also feel obligated since am the only one to finish a college degree in my family(6kids).

[ember ingot]

This is a pretty general question but, self taught, what do you think you need to have done to show on a resume before you start applying for jobs?

[vapid jay]

Its competitive for normal immigrants who study there as well. Getting sponsored also means lesser pay since youre paying out of pocket for the troubles.

[delicate bane]

see this is why i recommend folks to do internships during college if they can. you def look better as an applicant with internships on your resume

also sometimes if you do a really good job + you like the company, you can get converted to FTE after graduation

caveat: this applies if you are planning to go into industry and NOT academia

[exotic quarry]

Is it weird that I've been at a 6 figure job for 10 months now and I'm miserable asf and when I was working as a bust boy in a restaurant with almost double the hours and no pay I was so much happier. Really weird how life is.

[iron rock]

I don't know, that's why am asking for directions. am ready to put in the work, whatever it takes.

[delicate bane]

there are 6 figure jobs out there that arent miserable...

have you identified the root factors causing said misery?

[exotic quarry]

I've been thinking it might be the people I work with. Have nothing in common, age gap is massive as well. No connection.

Or maybe it's just me not adjusting to corporate life

[exotic quarry]

Yeah, I've been searching for other opportunities as well. We'll see if that helps once I move on from this place.

[peak halo]

My company also skews old. Are there young people in other parts of your company that you can network with?

[exotic quarry]

I'm the youngest one in the company, after me is someone in HR and she is 36.

I do talk most with interns when we have them. Unfortunately I started my career early lol at 19 and this has been the issue with all 5 companies I've worked for. I'm 23 now and still can't figure out why it makes me feel like this tbh

[delicate bane]

oof. yeah that is a decent culture gap due to age. i know it would be tough for me if i was the youngest in a company - for multiple reasons

[lapis wind]

I can see that being an issue, I've basically done the same. Although I think i've had much better luck with companies. I think it also depends on what kind of person you are as well tbh

[exotic quarry]

Yeah I've been 5 times now and I'm like blahhh. Probably need to increase my skills and try going for those big companies instead of small companies.

[exotic quarry]

Yeah definitely that has to be a big factor. I've basically come from section 8 and been homeless a couple of times and every time people here talk to me about their summer/vacation homes or their trips, their childhoods I don't even know what to say or to add on because I don't want to be that person that brings the vibes down with those stories lol so I just smile and wooow hahah

[neat perch]

So, guys I found VS code IRL

[exotic quarry]

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[gusty niche]

hi, i am passionate about programming,
i have 2+ years experience with python and want to continue furthur as i completed my 12th

what should i learn, full stack web development or android development
and what courses should i opt to master them.

[buoyant seal]

there is no other answer except: Try everything and seek what you like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6rP-YP4c5I

[buoyant seal]

I would clarify though that there is things to learn like
desktop dev
android dev
frontend web dev
backend web dev

full stack is kind of master of none. (surely it is possible being one, but in general cases i see just.... idiots who know frontend at some level, and barey scratched just beginning of backend/devops and thinking they are already experts)

[clever shell]

Swx

[gusty niche]

by full stack I mean, frontend+ backend, its okay if i learn both of em separate, but from where should I actually learn?

[gilded valley]

Where are you seeing these idiots?

[buoyant seal]

try everything, see what you like, and learn it further

[delicate bane]

yeah thats a tough situation to be in. i think peeps in our age range are more likely to understand those hardships/more likely to have such experiences themselves since there were more harsh economic factors during our time

[cunning condor]

Is tensorflow developer certification worth it?

[gusty niche]

thinking of a paid course

[near ocean]

Python certifications are usually worthless

[buoyant seal]

Well, the worst example of it is person named Néstor Llamas from another Discord server made for DevOps.
he already twice claimed things like, learning all AWS things is possible by just googling within 1 minute (so kind of DevOps engineers are getting paid for nothing)
and to question what needed being written from documentation for project/proof a project and etc, he was recommend system design and analysis book. He answered again that he does not need to learn a thing that can be learned in 30 seconds, he will not be learning anything from that. He just needs an answer

[buoyant seal]

also i had already frontend colleague in the past with whom i worked closely. Not really far away from it person. In half of a year i did not manage to persuage him 5 rules about using git / using git. Kind of feeling failed in attemps to teach anything. But i think in those cases there are just not teachable people. He was online courses graduated. He claimed that he would learn backend in like his one online courses lesson too in order to become full stack dev.

And another fullstack dev came to DevOps server recently: https://brianyoung-portfolio.vercel.app/
Awesome frontend web page, isn't it? I can applaud for that, really lovely frontend. But NFT DEV!?!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3uq7Oos-zc&feature=youtu.be I have only this opinion about it.

[gilded valley]

This sounds more like a common cause - arrogance - rather than full stack being an inherently poor choice.

Both examples sound like overconfident morons with god-complexes, but if you're setting out with the goal of a broad understanding, that doesn't guarantee a poor understanding of any specific thing

[buoyant seal]

Well, yeah. Any dev speciality is not safe from it. Ergh, i am just not lucky to encounter each time fullstack-frontend devs with it. And kind of already traumatized by such cases. xD https://c.tenor.com/GjqLIt28NkQAAAAd/vietnam-flashback.gif

[mystic shadow]

Yo

Does someone of you have a whitelist script I need that for my bot

[acoustic wolf]

I taught myself to program a few years back to help a college professor automatically collect organism information from a database using DNA accession codes. Since then I've worked on some other projects and have been made the lead author of a paper for what I helped with but.... I currently work on a farm lol

How do I get a programming job? If I complete projects on Project Euler and other sites like that, is that enough?

[near ocean]

No, euler/leetcode puzzles and the like are not enough to land you a job
You should be building real software that tackle real problems instead
Build a blog, a social media clone, some algo visualization, etc

[acoustic wolf]

Thank you for answering. Would something like small Django projects help if they were put on GitHub? For instance I wanted to make a little art database website where you could browse pictures

[near ocean]

Yes those would be more appropriate projects to showcase your ability in a language and also related tech

[acoustic wolf]

kk thanks

[vapid jay]

software dev jobs can and will cause burnout, there is a strong agenda around this for people to really love/be obsessed with this field so employers can abuse them, be careful, work life balance is very important

[vapid jay]

sounds cool, django, or fast api are good choices for delivering objects as an api as well as rendering frontend with djangos templating and what not. its very straightforward as well, i would say half the employees ask for algo puzzles half the time, altough having a project will set you in a better light and they will probably ask api/backend related questions rather than abstract puzzles, especially if they are a result oriented company, feel free to ask everyone for their sources/favourite tutorials so you can get started with web developement

[vapid jay]

full stack is an ok choice, especially for companies regardless if you land a backend job will want you to write apis and have an understanding of how frontend works, mastering both is hard let alone a single one but certainly possible to get to a decent level, just be honest about your experience and your expectations

for example i focus on backend but learning react and redux as a plus, i wouldnt go into full fledged frontend for example but it will help you tick a box on the job openings that also prefer you have frontend javascript experience as well

[smoky quest]

It's difficult to say without more details.
You mentioned no connection on topics, but does that mean you don't collaborate or meet as a team?

[acoustic wolf]

thank you for your answer too

[peak halo]

My friend just got a job offer, and he responded saying that he wanted 5k more than they had offered. But he told me that he will accept the initial offer even if they don't negotiate. He's now concerned that they're just going to retract the offer. I've never heard of a company retracting an offer because the offeree wanted to negotiate. Are my friend's fears unfounded?

[honest pivot]

Who could possibly guess? 5k doesn't sound like that much, but I guess it depends what the initial offer was

[smoky quest]

it's not much but maybe he was already at the top of the range. Or maybe they had another candidate that was excited and now they are thinking about them. It can be a host of things.
But if for 5k they are rethinking it, it does point as them not being 200% on your friend

[peak halo]

To be clear, they have not rejected him.

He's just worried that they will.

[smoky quest]

I was pointing at the fact they didn't just accept the 5k

if they were that much into him or there was no barrier, that wouldn't be a blocker

[peak halo]

They haven't responded yet one way or another.

[vapid jay]

They will move onto the next applicant if they are comparable

[peak halo]

Though it's all now a moot point, as they texted me back saying that they offered an extra 2.5k, and that he's going to settle for that.

[vapid jay]

Passing the interviews doesnt make you a good engineer as long as you have working experience and they will likely skip to the next applicant

5k is too much and there is recession going on you should understand it from the perspective of the employers

[smoky quest]

congrats to your friend!
Interesting outcome though. Did they give any reasoning? How did your friend justify it?

[peak halo]

@vapid jay my question was simply if an employer would completely retract a job offer for no reason other than that the offeree wanted to negotiate more, without giving the offeree another chance to accept the original offer.

[vapid jay]

Oh they will probably tell him once at least they cannot offer higher. Altough ive heard where they ghosted the candidate

Often times for competitive roles people are superqualified, for big tech especially so the next guy is literally the same. Just doesnt do optimal in some weird puzzle which is not a real metric

It may have been safer to not negotiate we are already being paid very well

[peak halo]

That was my question. Not if trying to negotiate is reasonable or not.

[peak halo]

Not sure.

[vapid jay]

He may be ghosted, but hopefully not

As ive said ive heard it happen but it is likely they are decent people and will ask again for the same rate

[coarse crag]

@ Stelercus already said that the company offered 2.5k and that the friend will settle for that. maybe you missed the message.

[vapid jay]

Oh thats cool. He keeps changing his profile pic so i didnt notice.

[coarse crag]

oh i see

[peak halo]

I haven't changed it during this conversation.

[coarse crag]

hahaha yeah, i was confused about that cause you didn't change anything it seems.

[vapid jay]

It keeps being green and glasses guy for me idk

[coarse crag]

i like the fact that you even congratulate someone that you don't even know 🤣
that's wholesome. (i'm sorry for the off-topic comments tho 💀 )

[honest pivot]

So, I'm in some kind of awkward limbo where I've given notice to the bosses, but they have not yet announced anything to the team, so it is difficult to do knowledge transfer effectively. Plus my motivation is extremely low since I am leaving. I've got 5 more weeks. Any thoughts what to do? I don't want to engage in any further battles with the bosses over how they should run their company.

[vapid jay]

#python-discussion

[summer roost]

So don't. It's their job to tell you what to work on. If they don't want you working on knowledge transfer, that's their prerogative.

If you have free time, you can always spend it polishing documentation, or things like that. That would just look like paying down tech debt to an outsider, rather than like knowledge transfer.

[honest pivot]

Yeah, this is kinda the same thought I had. I do like explaining stuff, and I wrote about half of it. 🙂

[summer roost]

Obviously it would be unprofessional to check out completely, but the time for trying to exert influence over priorities is over. Do your best to leave them in the best possible state, within the constraints they set for you.

[acoustic wolf]

Yeah I agree. I'm sort of in a similar position myself just checked out lol. It's their business, you're just the worker.

[vapid jay]

I would argue there is no point in doing this. There is no tech debt. You are a human being before a developer. Just do what you are told

[honest pivot]

Nah, there is plenty of tech debt. I just spent the last month onboarding a new guy and this only highlighted how much knowledge about our codebase is sequestered in my head. I think my other option is to continue to try to design things, but I have very little motivation for that.

[smoky quest]

There isn't much you can do on your side other than reminding your boss you are leaving in 5 weeks and to let you know how they want to do the knowledge transfer.
Potentially doing so over email to CYA

You can also happen to write more docs more than usual 😉 😉 😉

[smoky quest]

The point to doing this is to maintain a good relationship with your future ex-coworkers and potentially not having references badmouth you. The last impression is one of the strongest

[vapid jay]

That sounds super performative and work obsessed. You are not required to do anything at all. Your coworkers wouldnt do anything to help you, why should you

[smoky quest]

That's just being professional and being remembered and recognized as such.
I have had coworkers who behaved professionally and others who checked out like you recommend. They were all remembered and recognized according to their performance and behavior

[vapid jay]

How their coworkers remember you doesnt account for anything.

[coarse crag]

it affects how you're gonna be perceived when applying for another job in another company i think?

[smoky quest]

My experiences show me that it does. I did get references and business opportunities thanks to that

[vapid jay]

Are they gonna ring up your old company and ask if youve done tech transferrence when you were not told to do?

[smoky quest]

the folks there may know some people you have worked with, who would tell them how you left everything in a crappy state and how you behaved

[vapid jay]

Thats such a rare thing to happen and they could have asked for help. As youve said there were people who left looking out for themselves. Its good because no one will lookout for you in this life.

[smoky quest]

It's actually fairly frequent once you have been in the industry for a few years. They just won't tell you about it

[vapid jay]

Never in a million years i would spend a second of my day to badmouth someone who just left to their new company. My time is valuable

[near ocean]

You might not, others might
Why cant you protect yourself from what others might do?

[smoky quest]

you would be surprised 😉
Either way, just own your behavior. If you behave unprofessionally, don't expect people to cover for you. That would put their own value at stake

[honest pivot]

Also former coworkers are part of your network, they could be a way into a future job.

[vapid jay]

If they wont cover for me there is no way im gonna do anything to help them.

[coarse crag]

it's not really a badmouth. i mean it's rather psychologically. just like what recursive said, the last impression is one of the most impactful. that's why if you did bad, and then your new boss happens to know someone from that company, and your boss asks them how you did in the previous company, your acquaintance saying that you didn't do very well doesn't mean that they are badmouthing you. they were simply being honest about how they perceive you. i guess?

[smoky quest]

That's why it's so much simpler to behave professionally from start to finish.

[vapid jay]

Its not unprofessional to quiet quit

[near ocean]

This isnt quiet quitting, its doing your job

[vapid jay]

You are a person before a worker. You have priorities. Not a money making machine. Act accordingly

[near ocean]

Youre still under contractual obligations after you've given your notice

[vapid jay]

I am saying you dont have to tech transfer unless you are instructed to do so

If they ask you to do it sure. You dont go above and beyond because employers wont do it for you

[near ocean]

You dont have to go above and beyond to do tech transfer, no one wants to go through a work day and then also have to knowledge transfer on top of that
You treat it as part of your work day, whats above and beyond about that?

Its just another part of your duties, like interviewing and onboarding is

[vapid jay]

I specifically said in the case of not being instructed. Otherwise what are you gonna do, just sit?

[near ocean]

Wdym sit, text your teammate who's most likely to pick up your workload and ask them if they need a rundown or documentation

Is it above and beyond to take initiative on makin sure your team can pick up where youre leaving off?

[smoky quest]

One thing I did was to spend less time on new features or bug fixes and instead spending it on updating and writing the doc and making sure everything was in order.

It's simple, easy, makes everyone happy and avoids some unnecessary stress on all sides

[near ocean]

During my notice was the first time I was actually managed, they rode me for the whole month, writing docs, catching people up for projects I was managing, developing new features before I left, coordinating with testers
I guess they realised someone had to do it because they sure werent going to

[summer roost]

not that rare. I've had former bosses from companies that I left on good terms call me up and offer me new jobs.

[summer roost]

your time is valuable, which is exactly why the company is paying you for your time. I'm certainly not saying you should be putting in more hours than you're contracted for, or anything like that - just that you should be spending the hours the company is already paying you for doing the things that leave the company in the best possible place, within the constraints that management has placed on you

and even setting what's best for the company aside, at every job there have been coworkers I liked and who I wanted to leave in the best position possible for continuing on without me.

[junior shell]

Not sure the best place to ask, but does anyone have tips for making a resume with no experience? I have a few projects, but not sure how to lay it out. Some help and/or an example would be appreciated!

(This resume is geared towards getting internships btw)

[smoky quest]

it's probably simpler if you start by sharing what you have so far

[royal stratus]

i ahvent looked into the cs career much, how is the pay compared to other 4 year degree jobs and is the job market stable.good

[near ocean]

Its pretty high up there with engineering disciplines, not sure how one could tell if a job market is stable or not

[karmic token]

just look on glassdoor for salary information

right now it's not so stable since nothing really is

[tough light]

goes pretty high and you can make alot of money strait out of college

[karmic token]

most companies have laid off 2-10% of their workforce in the past year

[dark moon]

You all have worked as software developers professionally, I assume

Many of you at least. Do your workplaces have wellness programs in place?

[summer roost]

"most companies"? What?

[junior shell]

I really have nothing right now. I set up the basics (my education, name, linkedin, etc.)

I have a few coding projects I have done on my own time but not sure the best way to show them off. Sorry if I'm being very vague, this is my first resume lol.

[summer roost]

mine does, yes.

[smoky quest]

blank out the personal identifying parts and post it here for review whatever you have.
There is no secret to it to the art of the resume and there is no one standard template.

[smoky quest]

Can you define what it means here? That could be a lot of things

[delicate bane]

as the new person to a company, i really appreciated some of the documentation we had as it helped me get up to speed on a couple things. obviously theres still a lot to play catch up on but every little bit goes a long way

[eternal yew]

Where can I ask help for python related doubts ?

[smoky quest]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[chrome cedar]

I wanted to give an update on this
I met with a few hiring managers to discuss their projects and pick one that I was most interested in working with
I then spoke to a compensation negotiator within AWS who basically tries to get me the most compelling offer, and he's not given any sort of commission based on how much he negotiates for me
I was told I'd get $165k-$170k base and $210k-$220k total first year comp, which was already an insane number for me
I ask him to try to push it to $230k if possible, with me not expecting anything because that's already so damn much
He asked me if I would accept the offer immediately if he could get me $250k and I said I'd got for it, no hesitation
He calls me 15mins later after negotiating, and my first year comp is a whopping $300k
$185k base and $105k first year bonus, with the rest in stocks
I am just absolutely floored

If you work hard to improve your skills and are able to get a decent amount of work experience under your belt, anything is possible
Just last month I didn't think these numbers could be real, and my expectations were one-upped entirely

[ebon falcon]

Hey guys, does anyone here have any advice on actually finding a job? I finished a bootcamp not too long ago and have learned the skill necessary to get an entry level programming job but I cant seem to find a job let alone an interview. I feel like im really doing something wrong

[junior shell]

Sorry for the delay, tried getting it as good as possible before sending it for critique. Thanks for the help!

[blazing furnace]

Ohh thank you

[smoky quest]

congrats!

[summer roost]

that's excellent. congrats.

[karmic token]

Most tech companies in USA*

[summer roost]

name 10.

[karmic token]

This site shows 421 companies laying off at least 5% of their employees in 2022 http://layoffs.fyi/

And that's just the ones where the numbers were public

The company I work for laid off ~4% engineering and ~12% operations and is listed on that chart without a percentage

[summer roost]

but that only shows startups

95% of startups fail within 5 years

it's totally unremarkable for there to be a big list of startups that are currently failing

[karmic token]

I see Netflix, Peloton, Klarna, Stripe, Twitter, and plenty of other big names on there

And yes, lots of startups. I was including startups when I said "most companies" since there are a lot of startups it would be kinda silly to ignore them in that statement

[summer roost]

I suppose, but by definition they're a small part of the total labor force

and you presented it as a unique thing about the current year, when in any given year, an average startup is likely to fail within 5 years.

the page you linked is interesting data, but it's not terribly useful without being able to see a timeseries

[karmic token]

that site isn't a comprehensive list

[summer roost]

sure, I get that

[karmic token]

I stand by the fact that 'most companies' are laying off an abnormally high number of employees this year after coming down from the covid high

[summer roost]

if what you're saying is that the number of companies laying tech workers off is well above normal, we'd need to see the number of tech workers laid off charted over time in order to have any sense of whether that's true or not

anecdotally, my company of a few thousand engineers is not laying engineers off, and I don't personally know anyone whose company is, other than the people that I know at Meta

[gilded valley]

Anecdotally, I think it is true. Coinbase, Revolut, lots of start/scale-ups have made headlines about this sort of thing

[summer roost]

You think it's true that more than 50% of US tech companies are laying off engineers?

[gilded valley]

No no, the number I meant to say, is nonsense
Just more companies are doing layoffs, not close to 50%

[rugged tundra]

howdy, I have a really general question that might not have an answer..

I have been learning to code for half a year, I began with html, css and JS and completed quite a few projects with these, I am now focused on learning Python as a language. I'd like to stick with Python but not sure what to put on a resume, I'm open and willing to apply for any jr positioon.. With that in mind, would python developer or web developer be more suitable on my resume? OR something else that's more general? Thank you

[summer roost]

More than 2021, I buy. More than 2020, I'm a bit skeptical, but I guess it's possible. More than 2008, I don't think there's any chance.

[summer roost]

What do you mean by "be more suitable on my resume"? What's going into your resume, exactly?

Your resume is a list of experiences you've had and skills you have. If you've never had either of those jobs, I don't see how either one would go on your resume

[honest pivot]

I think they mean what to call themselves in the heading of their resume, and the answer is you don't have to give yourself any sort of title at all, since I don't think anyone would actually read it anyway.

You can write an Objective blurb that describes what you are looking for. You can have multiple different versions of your resume where that description is different. So, when you are applying for web dev jobs, emphasize that you are interested in web dev. When you apply for Python jobs, say you are interested in a Python-oriented role, etc. Whenever you talk to someone in interviews or whatever, the job you are most interested in is the one they are offering.

[summer roost]

You can put an objective blurb on your resume, but you don't have to, and I'd argue it's better to not. I suppose it could be useful if you were just posting your resume online somewhere, but if you're using that resume to apply for positions, they already know what your objective is: to get hired for a position like the one you applied to

[honest pivot]

I suppose it's like a cover letter, but much shorter. If you don't have in mind something specific you want to say, then it is better not to bother with it.

[summer roost]

And if you do have something specific you want to say, that's what cover letters are for, since they give you a lot more freedom - and space - to explain whatever you think needs explaining

[gilded valley]

It's likely there is reasonable data for this. Comparing to 2019 and before, I'm fairly sure there are a lot more companies laying people off. I'm curious enough that I'm going to have a look around for something more concrete

[errant moat]

Hello My name is Amey. I am a Digital Marketing Manager. I am looking for a career switch. My background, i have completed my B.tech in CS. I am planning to learn python. So i need help in starting to learn python and how can i start it from zero

[summer roost]

This is #career-advice

[latent moth]

srry where can i ask for it

[summer roost]

#❓｜how-to-get-help or #python-discussion

[alpine vale]

икщ

[vapid jay]

They do not properly assess effort and intelligence when hiring

Its mostly puzzle/trick questions and if you have a shiny project youre in

Also they look at those elite group schools as if what they teach in cs is relevant to real world software programming. They are busy teaching assrmbly and discrete mathematics

where to ask uni advice?

[vapid jay]

Maybe here. If it is career related

[vapid jay]

not really
just choosing uni

so how much proximity matters
when choosing a uni

[vapid jay]

Ok so unis all teach the same thing. As long as it is a medium one. The vetting process for the ivy league russel group is just that. Academics are the same

The difference is how hard it is to get into them. So cheap, close and an easy one should do fine. Also in software programming it isnt really relevant what you learn at uni.

what about ml?

You wont learn how to write web apps apis, databases maybe, mine was decent for teaching that.

For ml positions are very few. I wouldnt recommend it but a guy here called stelecrus knows more abiut it

oh ok
so one uni got computer science under science facility
and other one got an information technology facility(instead of science)

does this matter

also not sure whether to take industry or academia

in cs world
from what i've seen
research is more done in industry

Yes they are different.

[gilded valley]

Do you need to speak to a therapist about your obsession with leetcode being bad?

[vapid jay]

You need to speak to one about your obsession with useless algos

[gilded valley]

Tbf, ole Djikstra does keep me up at night

[vapid jay]

I would enjoy joining apple but its not worth the interview process

[gilded valley]

Every day I'm plagued by the idea of backtracking

I can't eat without thinking about bin-packing

[vapid jay]

Since you use it in everyday programming sure.

I bet you do abstract math daily as well. My gf enjoys that but she is an astrophysicist

[honest pivot]

Diogenes is giving you very opinionated and perhaps misleading advice about choosing a uni, I think you should also wait to hear some other people's advice. (I can't give you much, as I didn't do the CS route)

[gilded valley]

No no, I'm too busy planning how I'll divide and conquer

[vapid jay]

I am doing the cs route. Ivy league is not worth it if you do not plan big.

[near ocean]

Now that I think about it, the only people i've seen complain about leetcode are those that failed tech interviews because of it

Everyone else moved on with their life

[vapid jay]

Check out ben awad. He is a big youtuber who explains

[gilded valley]

Pro-tip: when Diogenes says something isn't worth it, it's a good indication that you should put time and effort into that thing

[honest pivot]

If you're still in uni, then you should probably not be giving advice about it. And some people do think big.

[near ocean]

I dont listen to youtubers for career advice or any kind of advice really

[vapid jay]

I say non stem fields arent worth it. Then you should go and do gender studies

[vapid jay]

He is a programmer who has his own startup

[near ocean]

Diogenes since youre giving career advice, care to share your own work experience and education?
(and leetcode points)

[gilded valley]

Non stem fields can be fine, yeah. Economics and finance especially

[vapid jay]

I have an internship. But heard a lot from seniors. Unlike you im not full of myself

[vapid jay]

I would do physics if i didnt worry about work tbh. Much more enjoyable

[near ocean]

Oh, youre the guy that wouldnt listen to godlygeek's advice the other day even tho he's a senior in every conceivable way

[vapid jay]

He is a senior who would rather hangout in a python discord and obsess over his job and being a programmer. Many other seniors say otherwise

I wont stay for long when i start working. Javascript community is less toxic than this

[near ocean]

Lmao and this is why your advice should be instantly rejected

[vapid jay]

So you should obsess over being a programmer and not have a work life balance

No one has the time to spend weeks going thru grokking. We have families, girlfriends, buddies.

[coarse crag]

i don't think that was the point of the conversation....

[near ocean]

You should have done this when you were in school just like the rest of us
I didnt wait until after i graduated to do leetcode lol

[vapid jay]

Why would i spend time doing leetcode in uni. Im busy going to classes

[gilded valley]

So you can become a traveling salesman obvs

[honest pivot]

"Why should I ever spend the effort to hone my craft?"

[near ocean]

Uni isnt 8hours straight of classes, and if you suggest that you "studied" so hard youre lying

We've all been to uni here, we know the experience lol

[vapid jay]

Hone my craft doing binary tree traversal? Which i never have to do in a job?

There are seniors who cannot do leetcode at all since they are busy developing software

[vapid jay]

whats the experience
i starting uni next year

from what i heard uni is bit relaxing compare to high school

[near ocean]

Keep up with your homework, show up to class, thats pretty much it
Showing up to class is probably the most important thing, do that and youre 70% of the way there

[vapid jay]

oh ok
then proximity matters

[vapid jay]

Appereantly a lot of leetcode as well. Since thats very important

[vapid jay]

since if your closer to the uni
you will more likely to go

[near ocean]

If you dont want an average paying job, yes
I hear some people dont mind that tho

[vapid jay]

Proximity does matter. Ivy league or russel group is a joke

[coarse crag]

people have different lives than you. it's fine if you have opinions, but i don't think you should advise others when you know that your advice is rather personal preference. i mean, why would anyone aim for mediocre university if they can try to aim higher? it doesn't make much sense.

[near ocean]

Proximity here means physical distance from your dorm/house to uni

[honest pivot]

Ive League and Russel Group open up all kinds of doors that are not open to someone like Diogenes.

[vapid jay]

whats Ivy league and russel group

[near ocean]

Yes but dont go spending bags of money to stay right next to uni, be sensible

[coarse crag]

its like top universities in certain countries. (top 5 or smth) or just top universities in general

[vapid jay]

oh like shanghai ranking

[vapid jay]

Why would they. Also average jobs are cool nothing wrong with it

[vapid jay]

so from my house one uni is 20 min
and one is 1 hr

still deciding on which uni to do the cs course

[near ocean]

1hour commute doesnt sound that bad
Thats what my work commute used to be like

[coarse crag]

not quite sure i get you. but for example like harvard, stanford, etc... they are the ivy leagues of usa

[vapid jay]

im in australia

[coarse crag]

ah i see. australia probably has their own list. i don't know much. but i'm sure you know what i mean.

[vapid jay]

oh ok
i thought it was like a uni ranking system

[near ocean]

Google says the australian equivalent is called Group of Eight

[coarse crag]

oooo

[vapid jay]

Its all networking possibly from rich people. Rest isnt relevant.

[vapid jay]

both universities are in there

[near ocean]

Thats good

[vapid jay]

Listen to jbp on how unis operate. Every uni has more knowledge than a single person can accumulate

[gilded valley]

Don't listen to jbp about anything

[near ocean]

Did you actually just recommend peterson? When did we turn server into fucking reddit

[vapid jay]

He is a very smart man. I disagree with him on a number of things but he is very smart

[gilded valley]

Go clean your room

[vapid jay]

thats makes it harder to choose between them
does the order matter
like which is in top of the list

[near ocean]

Not really, look at their syllabus for CS and consider whether its worth the money moving out of the house for the one thats further away

[vapid jay]

They teach assembly, even stanford does it. Wake up about curriculum, no practical skills or good practices will be taught at school

Its abstract logic mathematics which will force you to learn react on your own time

[vapid jay]

i dont really need to move out the house for both of them

[near ocean]

Youre really dropping the ball on your act here

[balmy mural]

Then consider if it's worth the extra time and cost to commute to the one that's further away daily

[vapid jay]

Act of what. Even ivy leagues teaching nothing practical.

[near ocean]

Bad opinion

[vapid jay]

so for one of them i have to do a science elective
so that mean i have to do a science subject

Yours is horrible opinion. Stanford student made a video about their curriculum. Go watch that

one got industry based learning(IBL) and the other one dont

[coarse crag]

i'm pretty sure that a lot of people here have disagreed with you. and i know that the seniors in this server will disagree with you too. i'm not sure why you're being stubborn about it. i mean, its fine if it's just for you. but for real, your advices are very misleading for kids who genuinely seeks advice related to universtities.

[near ocean]

Maybe you should stop watching so much youtube

[vapid jay]

Academics are out of touch when it comes to industry, go for industry basrd one. Thats the only one worth taking

[vapid jay]

Your advices are much more misleading. You cannot acuse me of that. This server is mostly obsessed programmers and not all have a clear view of how the world works

A great uni wont guarantee you a great job, perhaps in defence its a good route.

[vapid jay]

could you explain it more
what is out of touch?

All of high level unis often ask for donations or are very selective and thats why their graduates are attractive. Not because of the curriculum

[coarse crag]

what are my advices? the only thing i mentioned was to aim higher. think about it, is that misleading?

[balmy mural]

Look at your career goals and work back from there. My uni had a choice of different science streams science or business streams and I went with science since it aligned better with my career goals

[coral dawn]

I have friends who will be graduating with me soon. Some of them don't even know how to install vscode.

[vapid jay]

In industry they will ask you to build practical solutions, university is theoretical and abstract. Good for academicians, not for engineers. Seek an industry integrated uni or a software engineering degree instead of cs and minor in maths for example

[vapid jay]

im interesting in ml stuff
i did a first year uni course as a subject in high school

which is called algorithmics

[vapid jay]

ML is masters gatekept. You need to do masters for a very niche field

[balmy mural]

If you're interested in ml you should 100% go with a mathematics/statistics route

[vapid jay]

I would advise taking ML electives as well. I took two and its all statistics

[balmy mural]

I wouldn't say you need a masters, but it definitely makes getting your first job a lot easier

[vapid jay]

oh ok
what about other cs fields
i dont like networking stuff
not a big fan of software dev either

[vapid jay]

Oh that settles it. See a cs degree with route for ml or ai. Bunch of schools has it

but i liked learning about
algorithm analysis
graph theory

There are also andrej karpathy videos free online for these kind of stuff. He is one of the brightest

heurisitcs

[vapid jay]

All CS degrees have a route for ML/AI.

[vapid jay]

If they do yes go for it

yes which one
at which uni

[vapid jay]

Do you think you can get industry support for ml at the uni you mentioned. That would be very helpful

[vapid jay]

yes?

other one doesnt have an IBL program

[vapid jay]

I would say IBL is perfect. You can ask sophisticated academics such as @coarse crag as well since they knoe it really well too

[balmy mural]

Wait, just to make sure I understand this correctly. Does the IBL place you within a company for a certain amount of time where you work for or learn from the company similar to an internship?

[vapid jay]

does this anwer your q

[vapid jay]

Id prefer it over my current degree. Practicality is always better.

[vapid jay]

cool

[coarse crag]

in fact i don't go and am not going to college anytime soon. i am not an expert. i am not sure of what is your purpose of mentioning me, but i genuinely think getting a college degree is the safest route and if possible, aim higher. (and i know most people will agree with me on that)

[balmy mural]

While I don't consider it worth more than a degree on its own, it's good to have in combination with your degree. Unless you plan on seeking out internships yourself if you're going with the other option, I would consider the one with IBL the better option

[vapid jay]

k

[vapid jay]

Exactly

[true harness]

at least for the ivy league, it's just a sports league. for some reason, they have more "prestige" than other schools, but the quality of education for CS is not necessarily better than a non-ivy

[coarse crag]

but would you aim for just any university tho? i agree with that, but in general, ivy leagues provide better prospects since they have the fame and connections. i can't see why anybody should not try to aim for ivy leagues. like, it's fine not getting in, but why avoid it?

[honest pivot]

Yeah, all those connections are hella valuable. Also, I think even someone saying that the quality of education is similar to less prestigious schools is heavily misguided. You have a lot of institutional knowledge in those places.

[true harness]

but would you aim for just any university tho?
cost is one thing, although larger universities do tend to have very generous financial aid. also distance, having to fly there or something is maybe a deal-breaker for someone

[coarse crag]

yeah... things like researches etc. they have the money to do it, they have the experience of doing it. i genuinely think ivy leagues are better even if it's just a little.

[true harness]

are you in the US?

[coarse crag]

ah i see. i thought you were disagreeing with me

[coarse crag]

no, but from textbooks, i can see that researches like that are done by some prestigious unis in us, i mean not all, but like, they have the money and tools

[vapid jay]

Exactly. This is what im saying

[true harness]

no, it's not what you're saying. you said "any university will do" or something like that. i'm saying, ivy league universities are good, but they aren't special compared to other good schools.

[vapid jay]

I dont mean go to underfunded overnight unis. I mean go for mediocre ones as the curriculum is the same. I agree with you

[near ocean]

Syllabus might not be special but literally every other aspect of an ivy league education is

[vapid jay]

Well what exactly

[near ocean]

Work opportunities, networking, compensation, etc

[coarse crag]

connections, tools, environment, facility, etc. i mean, a lot of things.

i mean, they are expensive for a reason

[true harness]

that's not true for CS, though. there are so many universities that offer stuff like that, e.g. stanford, berkeley, MIT, georgia tech, UIUC, etc

[near ocean]

Just the fact that recruiters hunt you down the moment you graduate is enough for most

Are all those not ivy league

[honest pivot]

<@&831776746206265384>

[near ocean]

Oh for some reason I thought ivy league was more general in nature, unlike that pesky russel group list

[vapid jay]

I still hold the belief that more industry integrated a university is, the better. We had software engineering practices lessons where we learned git, unit testing, regression testing, OOP. which are very much more useful than learning how the intricacies of a package built on top of another one works on machine level

[near ocean]

Well whatever, top schools offer more to a student than mid tier schools is the point

[true harness]

yeah, ivy league is literally just a sports league

[coarse crag]

same

[vapid jay]

Oxbridge is good for academicians. If you want to be a very good academicians by all means go there and learn djikstras and assembly bit manipulation or smth. But if you want a normal job then learn how to do the job

[coarse crag]

so what we were discussing was actually just "top universities" in usa?

[near ocean]

The word is academic fyi

[vapid jay]

USA, UK and every other country as well.

As long as the university isnt called applied sciences, technical school of etc. Its not great. MIT and CALTECH are exceptions

[near ocean]

That sounds like another blanket bad opinion

[vapid jay]

Stanford, harvard, princeton, yale are just elite for that reason

[coarse crag]

i'm leaving this discussion.

[ivory sluice]

idk this kind of rings true to me

reading up earlier in chat almost everyone needs to take a break and step away

[vapid jay]

Well im not competely oblivious, and especially when I am giving advice I make sure it is rooted in the general views/consensus of experienced people.

[ivory sluice]

follow our #code-of-conduct or you'll be removed

i'll be upping slowmode temporarily perhaps for a week

[ivory sluice]

idk if it's accurate to say that those schools are necessarily "not as great" as that is a blanket opinion that no one can verify. however, there is an initial impression and a bias that i've somehow developed over time that leads me to say "yeah that sounds about right"

[true harness]

i think you're missing the point of university. many universities aren't focused on preparing you for a specific job (although they may offer it through electives). many universities try to teach theory since you can take that from job to job. as new tech come and go, you'll still have a theoretical base to learn things from. what web framework you learned in school may not be relevant 10 or 20 years into your career.

[ivory sluice]

and for the vast majority of people, state funded public universities is a much, much, better value than attending an ivy league school. i think probably even more so if you're on a CS track. bear in mind there are general school rankings and also school rankings by field of study.

[vapid jay]

Ive already mentioned where my particular views come from, such as you state uni comment, yes ivy is not worth it, and @true harness yes, i do understand why those unis curriculum are structured but majority of them will want to be able to hold a job as fast as possible. It is not fair for them to dilude their brain in theory that is almost irrelevant than learning some transferrable skills with at least some modern tools

[ivory sluice]

and to be frank if you're not a top top top peak spec student you're not getting into (most) ivy league schools, nor into MIT, stanford. (those two schools are examples of non-ivys that are extremely competitive for STEM fields)

[vapid jay]

Any major state school + grokking for faangs will prepare you for a decent job if youre shooting up to be competitive.

[near ocean]

The fastest way to get a job is to go to a good university, the better the uni the faster youre scooped up, this comment makes no sense

[ivory sluice]

what's grokking?

[digital fjord]

a massive value add of universities is networking, which is where the "elite" schools are significantly better. But you can definitely do well if you are on a vaguely reputable uni still.

[vapid jay]

Grokking the coding interview, for faang jobs that ask abstract puzzles, as there will be plenty of super qualified candidates.

[true harness]

whether or not the theory is relevant has already been discussed many times, so i won't go into that. you imply that someone learning theory can't learn a web framework or whatever on their own time, which is just untrue. i would probably argue that learning it by yourself will be better than in a class, since the class will probably be a half year or maybe more behind current trends

[vapid jay]

Well i would propose a better education system for technology, hell, engineers too. Tech advances fast and old and prude colleges with fancy prices wont prepare you properly anymore.

[true harness]

ok, but that's not the point of the discussion. we're giving advice for people in the present, not for a hypothetical education system

[ivory sluice]

curriculums take time to build. i wouldn't trust one that claims to be on pace with the latest trends

[near ocean]

As stated earlier universities arent there to teach you how to do a job

[digital fjord]

At least at my school, and I know at princeton as well, if you want to keep up with modern trends in computing, that's where the extracurricular options come in. Sure, our compilers course uses designs which are slightly behind the dragon book, but you can join a research group and work on cutting edge research, or get an internship working on, well, real compilers which are used in practice.

[vapid jay]

Why go there then at all. All you need to do is finish a few books covering the core concepts + framework and tech stuff.

Is it wise now for employers to hire people who did bootcamps then.

[true harness]

because university isn't just learning from "a few books"

[vapid jay]

I know stanford is missing vital electives to catch you up to speed. Im sure tech oriented unis are better at it but you cannot trust everywhere to make up for it, let alone pay more than 20k a year

[elfin abyss]

To me at least, University is only half about the degree. The opportunities it can provide is what's actually valuable, opportunities that would otherwise be very hard to come by outside of being a student at the uni

[vapid jay]

what oppertunities

[elfin abyss]

Well I can say for certain I wouldn't be building rockets if I wasn't attending the uni I'm currently at

[jagged forge]

Man even here it seems popular to downtalk universities.

[digital fjord]

The thing with uni, you have to work to extract knowledge from it, it's not just a matter of passing until you get a piece of paper, that's the bare minimum.

[elfin abyss]

Nor would I have been able to chat to some of the crazy smart people I've met

[peak halo]

huh? one of the recurring themes of this channel is telling young people that they need to go to uni.

[elfin abyss]

This. If you just show up to uni for the piece of paper at the end then yeah, it probably is fairly useless

[vapid jay]

I am not downtalking unis. I am saying they are often subpar, and the fancy ones arent much better.

[near ocean]

Is that not what downtalking means

[vapid jay]

by fancy do you mean uni rank higher?

[digital fjord]

If your sole goal is to get a job ASAP, a bootcamp may be faster, but making up your foundations once you do want to start working on the roads less well laid with libraries and frameworks is going to be way harder if you also have a full time job.

[elfin abyss]

I agree with that to a certain degree, I can't really comment on other countries since I don't really know how their uni systems work, but here in Australia that certainly holds true in some ways. But the more 'prestigious' universities in Australia are actually the ones that are better for many things, people here don't tend to choose uni's because of the name

Though I know in places like America the name of the uni can carry a lot of prestige that may or may not be important, again I don't really know what the deal is there

[vapid jay]

im in Australia and which uni is best for cs
im starting uni next year

[elfin abyss]

I have no idea, I don't do CS 👀

[peak halo]

there also isn't a lot of need for undergraduate CS programs to be "up to date". The fundamentals of pure CS haven't changed in any of our lifetimes.

[true harness]

I know stanford is missing vital electives to catch you up to speed.
is it though? if you just scroll through this, you'll find plenty of non-theory courses https://bulletin.stanford.edu/courses?subjectCode=CS&page=1&cq=

[vapid jay]

oh ok
just curious what uni are you currently at

[elfin abyss]

Monash

[vapid jay]

Ok if you want a fancy great job, go to a high ranking uni and do a lot of leetcode/grokking. But otherwise you do not need to

[vapid jay]

ooh im deciding between monash and unimelb
unimelb rank higher than monash

[elfin abyss]

At certain things yeah

But I'd look into the actual differences in the course you actually care about

[vapid jay]

https://youtu.be/4SiFgB1lGxw

[elfin abyss]

All I know is melbourne uni's system is sorta weird. Like if I wanted to do engineering there I have to actually do a bachelor's of science and then a masters of engineering or something weird like that

[vapid jay]

btw do you know about the IBL program in monash
yes

[elfin abyss]

The industry based learning?

From the people I've heard from, it's quite good

[honest pivot]

You need to work backwards from goals. It's not just "this or that place is good or bad", it's "What is going to put me in the best position to get where I want to go?" Do you know what you actually want out of your career? (It's ok if you don't, most people don't really, even after uni).

[elfin abyss]

^

[true harness]

idk, i'm not going to stanford, but it seems he just didn't look at the electives he could take, https://bulletin.stanford.edu/courses/2085161. i'd be wary of trusting youtube videos instead of doing research

[vapid jay]

true
for cs
you have to do science and major in cs and compare to Monash which you can straight go for bachelor of Computer Science

[timber lagoon]

what wrong with the russel group list lol, i mean... apart from the fact that it doesnt actually mean anything apart from maybe better funding

[vapid jay]

I am a realist and cynical. Everything to me indicates that the video is a fair evaluation. He is a stanford graduate and a teacher also commented on the video as well. There are BS CS and there is useful CS classes.

[vapid jay]

no idea
i just like cs in general
but cs is huge field

[elfin abyss]

I would not survive CS

Too much theory for me

I'd do software engineering if I wanted to only do software stuff

But I'll probably do electrical and computer systems or mechatronics

[mystic cairn]

What college Australia?

[elfin abyss]

Monash

[vapid jay]

i kinda enjoy learning about theory in school
like graph theory, algorithm analysis, design patterns

not sure if they are useful in industry

[elfin abyss]

Yeah that's the opposite of me, I'm more of a robot building type of guy

[true harness]

sure, but i found a course in web development in like 30s of searching. at least 2 courses on UX in another 30. he's saying the classes don't exist, but they do

[vapid jay]

My man

[vapid jay]

oh i see
so more like computer engineering

[elfin abyss]

I like working with all aspects of a system, electrical, software, mechanical, etc

[mystic cairn]

everyone I want to stay live in home or anywhere and can do a work. Can you recommend about career I can do it?

[elfin abyss]

I mean... most carrer's would hopefully provide you with the means of having somewhere to live 👀

[peak halo]

A lot of programming careers can be done fully remotely. Whether or not your employer allows you to is a different story. So when it comes time to apply for jobs, that's something you'd want to look for in the listing, or iron out during the interview.

[vapid jay]

I like chatting with seniors, and not bringing work to home. Office hours it is. Also free coffee.

[peak halo]

the coffee at my office isn't as good as what I can make at home

[exotic quarry]

I'm not a software developer, yet, I'm a system administrator but same thing applies, I believe. I don't usually take vacations but you are correct. I need to start. I actually submitted mines last week so first vacation in 2 weeks!

[summer roost]

The difference between traveling a minimum of 2 hours per day vs 40 minutes per day is pretty huge. If you have classes 5 days a week and 42 weeks a year, that's 280 hours of extra commuting per year. That's a pretty huge quality of life difference.

[exotic quarry]

Oh yes, a lot of meetings unfortunately lol. I meant outside of work related things. We usually have meetings and then after meetings working sessions and also projects we have to collaborate on etc

[elfin abyss]

Speaking from experience, that hour can be more than you think, especially if this is public transport

That builds up

First week or so of uni I took public transport, like three hours of my day would just vanish

Now I drive and it's more like 20-30 minutes either way

And I just have far more time

[leaden jasper]

For those working remote full time and have computer assets provided by their company. How did the computer assets getting shipped to you work? Like... what was the lead time on that? What did the communication timeline look like?

(I'm trying to figure out now that I'm within 30 days of starting if I should reach out early to start that process)

[summer roost]

They're likely to do an overnight delivery and require a signature. If they're a reasonably large company that does a decent amount of hiring of remote workers, they've probably got a process for this down pat by now, but if remote workers are rare for them it wouldn't hurt to reach out in advance and ask about the logistics of receiving the hardware, and whether they expect you to have it on day 1.

[lapis wind]

For us they just do next day delivery or 1-2 day delivery of stuff.

[leaden jasper]

oooh thank you! I will likely reach out then since I'm the odd ball of my specific group that's fully remote.

Knowing it's a short term delivery and likely signed is good to know

[summer roost]

Hiring people is expensive, and shipping the hardware would be a dumb place to skimp

[leaden jasper]

time to bribe my husband to stay home that day to sign for me since I'll be on a train all day

[summer roost]

The extra cost of overnight delivery is totally worth it for them, from a logistics PoV.

[junior shell]

Still looking for help with my résumé, if anyone has suggestions feel free to ping me!

[leaden jasper]

What kind of advice are you looking for with it? Content, wording, structure, aesthetics? Also, what is the resume for? Internships? Job? Something else?

[true harness]

that "bypass anti-botting measures" seems a bit 😬 to put on a resume. also putting your SAT score is a bit strange, that's to get into a school, it's not for a job
also, minor formatting nitpick: you have "RELEVANT PROJECTS", but your other headers are all "Education", "Experience"

[near ocean]

I just got a CV for a guy applying to our team, he's a russel group phd student but he listed his a-levels for some reason

He also specifically talks about his personal projects but github only shows me template projects for gatsby and react apps
Do i mention this to anyone?

[junior shell]

The resume is for Internships. Just looking for overall advice since this is my first one. Not sure if it is worded nicely, or if anything should be removed (like @true harness mentioned, which I will probably remove now that it was mentioned)

I am comfortable with the layout and aesthetics, I think it looks pretty professional and east to read. But feel free to tear it apart.

[ivory sluice]

layout-wise i think it looks pretty good. i have to admit my first reaction to seeing "CEO" is an eyeroll, though that might just be me. do you employ anyone or are you solo?

[near ocean]

First thing that stood out to me was the capitalized projects heading
Also your projects dont need start and end dates
I think you should also give a brief description of what each project does rather than what you worked with to make it run

[true harness]

unless it's relevant to a tech the job has in the requirements ?

[near ocean]

No i meant in addition to the tech used

Like, what even is an breach NFT finder, a small single/couple sentence para to help the reader understand what it is you built
Also if any of these projects are deployed, i would also add a link to them

[junior shell]

Just solo, so maybe remove it right?

[ivory sluice]

i would eyeroll a little less at "Founder" rather than "CEO" but i'm curious as to others' opinions

[junior shell]

That makes sense. It was also something I considered a little cheesy considering my age. I thought it sounded a bit morte professional but I can totally see how that would backfire

[junior shell]

That’s a great point. The resume doesn’t really describe the function of each project. So I’ll definitely add a paragraph below each one describing its functionality.

I also wasn’t sure about dates on projects. I saw it on an example I decided to put them down.

[leaden jasper]

So if this is for internships:

• Remove the SAT score, they don't care
• I would probably remove the GPA for high school unless you're a freshman
• I would left align your headings to help the eye flow better
• I would move your activities for university down to your interests section
• I would remove the years on your projects unless they're tied to specific assignments/activities (i.e. a project from some hackathon)
• I would remove the soft skills portion at the bottom, seems too cheesy
• Your personal website project is a bit confusing to me. What does it actually do?
• I would remove the Nike SNKRS account generator project and use that space to expand on your other projects

I would try to get more concrete with improvements and numbers for your projects. Like "utilized various third party APIs to procure blockchain information". How many APIs, what blockchain info specifically? You want your most impressive stats/facts about the project at the top and then scale down from there. To me, deploying and AI to predict future trends is more impressive that communicating via API. Also, how did your predictions do? Share the results, the numbers, anchor it in something concrete

[junior shell]

Thank you so much for the help! I am a freshman and am trying to get my foot in the door asap, so haven’t been able to contact my universities career services.

[ivory sluice]

regarding the first section, what types of projects are these? your first bullet point says you discussed project ideas and outlined plans to complete them but there's no mention of you actually completing them or what they achieved

"retention rates of up to 30%" - does this mean you had repeat business from 30% of customers?

are these 4 projects listed client projects?

[vapid jay]

Profesion or passion?

[summer roost]

What?

[vapid jay]

Lol like what's good for anyone to follow? Passion or profession

[low field]

So when going into job interviews and showing them my portfolio, should I bring a laptop with me to show my programs in action? Is there any situation in the job finding process where a laptop would be useful?

I just feel like an outlier not owning a laptop as I like to code on a desktop.

[vapid jay]

I think bring both!

[near ocean]

Live demos are never a good idea, what you could do however, depending on the project, is deploy it and include a link in your resume
If the interviewer wants to look it they can

[low field]

Would this even apply if I go to a networking convention?

[peak halo]

I've heard it suggested that people who seek employment in something that they're "passionate" about are more prone to burnout. But "passion" isn't a formally defined thing. Two people can like the same thing to the same degree (whatever that means), but they might not both frame how they feel about it as "passion".

A lot of millennials (and I don't have a citation for this, just anecdata) in the US took the advice to get a degree in whatever they were most passionate about, even if having that degree didn't translate to a job where they could exercise that passion. But as it stands, getting a degree in the US that doesn't improve your earning potential is a financially bad move.

[cunning condor]

Thats a good one

[peak halo]

More anecdata: I had been a linguistics major (one could say that linguistics is my passion), and two of my relatives with linguistics degrees told me to stop. I now have a CS degree and work as a computational linguist, and I consider myself obscenely fortunate that I was able to find high-paying work that's tangentially related to "my passion".

Of the two relatives with linguistics degrees, one doesn't work in anything related to linguistics at all, and the other is a speech therapist for individuals with traumatic brain injury, but this required lots of additional training.

[mortal wedge]

Are you ever asked to include algorithms/software modules/suites because the company has an IP for it, even though it's dumb?

I don't have any idea how to respond to the question, I've developed better algorithms than the old ones the company used, I don't know the degree to which we HAVE to use older algorithms to maintain an IP or something like that

[smoky quest]

dumb is a matter of perspective.
There are a lot of dumb things from a technical perspective, but that are quite interesting from a business, marketing or product perspective.

But yes, I have been asked such things in the past and have always benefited from being curious and asking about the trade offs and how that would benefit the company and how the benefits outweigh the technical downsides

Also famous example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23229275

dang

That is probably the most cited HN comment of all time (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...). Entire rants have been written about it, and not nice ones. Fortunately the commenter has been a good sport about this over the years, given that it's hindsight fallacy.Edit: I think I want to add a bit more. Could you please...

Hacker News · May 18, 2020, 10:47 PM

[ivory sluice]

please move this to #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval since this channel (#career-advice) is a topical channel reserved for career discussion

[pastel thunder]

Placement season is in full swing.
I am unable to qualify for sde till now, 100% of them want DSA, even when i am able to do most of the question i am unable to get interview cuz its based on speed cuz too many of my peers are good at it and are able to do most of the question, what to do?
Is there any shortcut for dsa?

I have slim chance for off-campus placement as i am not CS major

[smoky quest]

Are you referring to interviews? If so, speed doesn't really matter as long as you finish it with the interview, and sometimes even after. The selected candidates aren't necessarily the fastest.

In terms of DSA, there are no shortcuts.
You could:

• Review the fundamentals with a book like https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Algorithms-fourth-Thomas-Cormen/dp/026204630X/
• Review interview oriented books like cracking the code interview
• Practice leetcode

[pastel thunder]

I dont get to interviews as online test is first round, my peer and me are student who got 99.5 percentile out of 1.4 million to get in my college. I am unsure if theres anything else holding me back other than the time at which i finish my test

my whole university codes irrespective of major, i guess i am screwed

[vapid jay]

@pastel thunder are you in a big state. Maybe shoot for smaller areas or companies

[smoky quest]

Hold on.
What part are you having troubles with?

• Are you having trouble getting calls back?
• Are you failing at the first round, the online test? If so, what do you think is the problem there? Are you taking too long for the DSA?

[delicate bane]

can i ask what country is this? this seems very situation-specific

[vapid jay]

I could guess india perhaps.

[pastel thunder]

india

[pastel thunder]

everyone gets shortlisted to atleast give test, but there are too many people coding here

[pastel thunder]

my problem is i cant settle for anything other then SDE, otherwise i will be limiting my scope in specialisation in which i would have good shot at like mscs/ds/ml
sde would be broad i can do minor c tohanges suite it to all of them

[smoky quest]

Sorry but I don't understand what that means. Can you expand a bit?

[pastel thunder]

basically student at my college irrespective of major are just aspiring to enter tech(me too)
and basically being tier 1 mmost of us our already 99percentile students, all of has good resumes, so 100%company straight up ask us to give online test(similar to leetcode contest, from home), and many of us even sole 100% of the questions(sometimes me too), so it boils down to who is able to solve faster(and i am unable to do that fast)

[near ocean]

This just sounds like you need to practice more
Theres no shortcut to being faster, the more problems you solve the quicker you'll get at solving them

[vapid jay]

Is it not possible to start somewhere with a lower bar and then you can worry about practicing? You may benefit from a job right now instead of a dream job

[neon crag]

made my first game so far its not a big game just a pong game using turtle and what do i do now?

[delicate bane]

yes see this is very specific to india since idk of another country that would use test scores at the uni-level to decide company placements like this

[brave matrix]

Should I add my age in the my resume ?

[near ocean]

No, why would you?

[balmy mural]

If applying locally, no. If applying in a different country, maybe. (Important for some work visa sponsorships)

[near ocean]

I would try to minimise any identifying information on your cv, its not uncommon to be discriminated against based on your race, your age, your gender
There's just no reason to risk it imho

Then again it also depends on where you're applying

[brave matrix]

I dont see why they would discriminate against me if im young

I think it could be a good idea to mention that I'm only 20 years old, since I'm young and I can learn alot,
but also they might prefer someone a bit older so they know hes done with hes studies and has more time for work

[near ocean]

What do you have to gain from mentioning your age? You possibly lose out on offers by people who think age somehow relates to experience or ability
If they ask you directly answer, but i wouldnt offer the information

[true harness]

but why take that risk? it's not hard to imagine someone going "ah, this person isn't like us old people, deny"

[near ocean]

You also lose out on negotiation strength, why would they pay some kid the same as their older coworkers

[brave matrix]

you make a good point

[summer roost]

People who are older than 20 can learn, too.

[ivory sluice]

i often hear things like "he's how old? 50? it's too late, he's not coachable or teachable" referring to how someone with a few decades of working experience is set in their ways

thoughts on this? have you encountered such a person, and do you attribute their "unteachable-ness" to their age, personality, or something else? has anyone that you wrote off as a curmudgeon ever surprised you in a positive way?

[buoyant seal]

I encountered young (in range of 20 to 30 years) personalities completely unteachable

I encountered that my grand father is able to communicate so well, that it is possible to explain him easily computer related actions despite him being 70+ old

[buoyant seal]

In general I see that... Easily teachable personalities...
Have drive for knowledge
And have like flexible curious mind / a spark
They have some at least healthy measure of confidence to go forward (although that is really varying I guess)

[peak halo]

sounds like a topic for #pedagogy 😄 but I suspect that this is mostly ageism.

[ivory sluice]

hm i meant more teaching/coaching from a.. not programming perspective, actually. more like in how one communicates, deals with conflict, manages their team, etc.

[delicate bane]

soft skills are some of the hardest to teach

[summer roost]

Sounds like ageism to me. If I heard a comment like that at work, I'd be making a report to HR.

Some people may be stuck in their ways, but I don't think age is much of a factor in that.

[buoyant seal]

!rule 9 <@&831776746206265384>

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[peak halo]

Hello @pure thicket. When you joined the server, you agreed not to ask for paid work of any kind. Please keep this in mind, or we might have to remove you from our community.

[ivory sluice]

hm maybe i'm still on a sinking ship even after our acquisition. my HR is new and hired by the person that made this comment to me about someone that isn't complying to various company policies and also is blasting angry emails calling people out (including their own direct reports)

[summer roost]

That sounds pretty not great.

[quick finch]

Hey i need help for coding round in company exam

Can anyone help me. I need help

[summer roost]

What kind of help?

[quick finch]

Can u help me in programming problem in coding round

[smoky quest]

that sounds like cheating

[delicate bane]

def sounds kinda yikes imo

but also theres the issue of the individual not complying with company policies, which is also not good

[summer roost]

yeah, that's yikes from every direction.

[harsh jolt]

I'm 53. I'm learning new stuff every day either from people who know more than I do or from teaching those who know less.

You can be a miserable git, or not, at any age!

[vapid jay]

ive heard of 60 year olds working in big tech and new joiners in their 50s, also one study i remember from years ago said best years your brain is good at learning, especially mathematical at 50 years old, so i can vouch for it being possible, may be perhaps depending on the attitude rather than age, if you are keen on learning no one can stop you

[atomic pasture]

hello i am in highschool any advice?( i like software( for more nformation))

[sudden yacht]

What specific advice were you looking for? Your question is vague.

[dark marsh]

ive seen these cool websites people use to display their github repos
where it's just rectangles for each repo you can click
is that something built into github or is there some sort of template im missing out on
would like to have that for my resume

[near ocean]

Sounds like pinned repos to me, its a github feature

[harsh jolt]

I've just rebuilt my website using Hugo. Is this the sort of thing you mean: https://owencampbell.me.uk/#projects

If so, here's hugo: https://gohugo.io

[simple parrot]

Hello

[gilded valley]

this isn't the right channel. Try #python-discussion

[buoyant seal]

i can recommend only a book: Grocking Algorithms

[balmy mural]

Hey everyone, I'm doing my first ever interview soon for a junior data engineering position. It's in a different country than where I currently live, so just a call. The call is about discussing the position and my background in a bit more detail, so I'm just looking for some general advice on how/what I should prepare.

[buoyant seal]

in general: relax xD time for preparations was in pevious months and years.
have a good sleeping. That's the best you can do to prepare xD

[somber swift]

hey guys im thinking about switching field, rn im working in veterinary field but I always wants to go in Tech but from pressure from parents i couldnt, so im 23 now and just wondering if its a good idea to be self taught coder.

[buoyant seal]

Also, during interview people usually gather things to prepare themselves in a future. Finding out missing spots xD I visit interviews sometimes just for the sake of building plan to learn next

[gritty rivet]

You can research the company and study the job listing etc to try to better understand what they might ask you. I sort of agree with Darkwind that there's no point in last minute cramming, but if there's any useful prep you can do it's going to be based on info you have and we don't

[balmy mural]

I'm actually not really familiar with their tech stack outside of Python, so I don't plan on cramming (surprised I passed the screening actually), so I don't plan on cramming some new technologies. Just wondering what to expect and if there's anything to prep that doesn't seem like common sense

[gritty rivet]

I don't think anyone can tell you if it's a good idea for you or not. Look at the job market and set your overall goal in terms of what type of positions you might want to prep yourself for, then plan out what you need to do to get there.

[somber swift]

hey can i pm you? i would like few more things before that

[gritty rivet]

Please stick to this channel so others can chime in

[wispy mirage]

anyone got an open position for me to work on

[gritty rivet]

!rules 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[wispy mirage]

Oh, not paid ofc

just want experience and stuff, and yes I have all the time in the world.

[gritty rivet]

https://github.com/MunGell/awesome-for-beginners

[near ocean]

This isnt a job board, if you need help with bettering your cv you can ask about that instead

[wispy mirage]

Oh shit, this is awesome, thanks.

Oh wait, not so awesome, I already did some of these a long time ago

[dense swan]

i never used python before in my life.

[ivory sluice]

you could get started, but in #python-discussion or a help channel #❓｜how-to-get-help

[nimble jackal]

Is there any point in joining an international coding competition CCA in school? It'll be in Python but it just sounds pretty nerdy; is it something you can put on a CV?

[near ocean]

Yes, this is literally a uni counsellor's dream, do as much relevant extracurricular things as you possibly can

[gilded wedge]

🎨

[vapid jay]

Is there a way to make $ 100 in a day as a python programmer

[jovial ibex]

Most engineering work?

[true harness]

100 a day is pretty low for the average software engineer in the US

[peak halo]

If you work 5 days a week, that's 260 working days per year. Which, at 100 dollars a day, is only 26k per year. That's pretty much unlivable.

[delicate bane]

how do you guys not get frustrated at seeing all this tech debt when you begin a new job. now i understand why nobody wants to build on pre-existing stuff and just build their own thing whenever possible. thus, continuing the never-ending cycle

argh. this irks me, yet i might also end up being part of the problem...which irks me more

[honest pivot]

I think if it's somebody else's code, you're not gonna like it, whether it's actually bad or not

[vapid jay]

Can you be more specific?

[delicate bane]

what do you tell yourself then

[honest pivot]

I dunno. I'm about to leave a position where I designed most things from scratch. I tried my best, but it's imperfect, and the imperfections were definitely noticed by the new people I've helped onboard. And I'm going to a new place that will have a bunch of code already and I'm guessing I'm not gonna like it, because it isn't mine. 😉

[delicate bane]

i think...i guess i will try to do the same

[past root]

Was wondering is course by University of Michigan in Coursera good for beginners??

[smoky quest]

That's part of the responsibilities of an engineer: managing the tech debt.
Software is not made in a vacuum. Trade offs are made and requirements will change, sometimes unexpectedly.

So you can look at it as a breathing living system. Some parts will require some attention, others will be fine for a while. But all of them were made with what was thought as the best way to proceed at the time.

Part of the growth of an engineer is to stop seeing these as an absolute

[buoyant seal]

I am just happy when new solution can be implemented in the way that it is not increasing tech debt further xD

[delicate bane]

maintain equilibrium ⚖️

[buoyant seal]

Also pet projects help. There u can scratch your scratches.

[vapid jay]

@atomic pasture

[atomic pasture]

@vapid jay

[peak halo]

@vapid jay @atomic pasture this is the career discussion channel, so please make sure that all your messages are about that.

[atomic pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-mod-life-of-a-discord-mod-discord-moderator-family-guy-gif-22385062

[peak halo]

!warn 1011392152447754270 This is your only warning to stay on-topic. If you disagree with how we moderate, please DM the @severe widget bot.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @atomic pasture.

[atomic pasture]

i disagree

[peak halo]

So DM the @severe widget bot. If you continue to misbehave, I'm just going to remove you from the community.

[atomic pasture]

jk but ill behave ill try behave myself

[misty lake]

If you only know python what type of things would you be able to do for a job?

[mental dew]

probably data analyst?

if you learn things like django or flask you can also do back end developing

[proper temple]

thanks for the notice

[smoky quest]

Hi!
It's not a channel for shitposting

[summer roost]

Not much. Most real world jobs require you to know a few different languages and tools.

[stoic timber]

yeah for data analyst for example, you could need Microsoft Excel, Power BI (or Tableau) and some basic SQL

[dry pasture]

I never went to college or Have any CS Degree Due some obv Reasons !!But I like Coding to do full time ! Is it still possible to get a good earning !!! And if Yes can pls suggest some ways.

[stoic timber]

it is, but it depends on many factors, like where you live, which work experience do you have, what are your other skills etc.

[stiff yacht]

I wrote a program that prints the numbers from 1 to 100. Will this make me a Silicon Valley millionaire

[worldly ridge]

only if you printed every number individually, otherwise no

[leaden knot]

To put things differently than what has been said. If your only programming skillset is Python, it would have to be exceedingly good for you to be hired just based on your programming (i.e. only Python) skills

[vapid jay]

Learn to work with databases, frontend, pythons modules or frameworks, two or three more languages with basics and some differences. But i agree python is best for whiteboarding since it is very close to straight english

[stiff yacht]

it was a joke guys

[near ocean]

This isnt a place to joke in, people come here for advice on their career, youre crowdin up the channel making it harder for people to use it or follow other conversations

[stiff yacht]

my bad

but i did get a good answer from diogenes

[vapid jay]

I replied for the other guy but sure. That is for general jobs. Search for job posts to get an idea of their tech stack as well.

[digital fjord]

@quasi radishHello, we do not allow recruitment

[sleek geode]

Hello. After 2 month of learning Python and completing project TicTacToe game, I still doubt at what point I should apply to some job after I will complete full Python course. Is any big project which I should do before or big problem I should solve to fill myself ready to apply for some coding job. Maybe I should attend some event to show my skills or do some free job for big company for reference to get green light for applying. (Dont want to fill stupid on my first interview and waste HR time.)

[peak halo]

HR won't invite you for an interview unless they've read your resume and think you could be a good fit. So as long as everything on your resume is true, it's on them if the interview turns out to be a "waste of their time".

That said, are you trying to start your career, or make a mid-career change to programming?

[manic jetty]

hello i need BETA testers for my software can anyone help me out with this

[peak halo]

try one of the three off-topic channels.

[manic jetty]

sure thing thanks

[sleek geode]

I want to start my career in programming after I quit waitress job in 5 star hotel. Hospitality isn't for me. Dont have enough time and money to finish computer science university to make employer fill that I can do a job. But have no idea how many project I have to show in my GitHub to make them fill I am good enough.

[peak halo]

In those circumstances, I'm concerned that you won't have very much success unless you get the degree. What sort of companies were you aiming for?

[sleek geode]

Any start ups will be fine for me. Dont think big or medium companies will spend time for my CV without coding experience. And I afraid agency will offer me only tech support jobs or call centre jobs.

[peak halo]

I worked as a barista for five years and put myself through school. So if you want advice for how to accomplish that, I could comment. I have never applied to a start-up.

[vapid jay]

I have heard startups who employ juniors dont know what they are doing

[peak halo]

well, juniors often don't know what they're doing. source: am a junior.

[vapid jay]

They are not a good place for graduates or juniors to be in since they do not have the enviornment that could support the growth of one and theyll treat you like a senior and you obviously wont be able to do it since they are juniors. And they will give you warnings for not doing good.

[peak halo]

I don't know that that's universally true, but it makes sense that in a smaller company, you'd have fewer people to lean on when you're unsure about something.

[true harness]

it would also force you to learn things, which can be good