Well we don't report stuff like that in daily scrum charlie
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
floral viper
undone berry
Standup is supposed to be "what you did yesterday what you intend to do today"
floral viper
We usually have ap's for the next day. Check test coverage, talk to X about Y, stuff like that. And we update the team on the progress of those ap's
So we don't keep repeating the same stuff day to day, that would just be stupid
undone berry
AP is action point?
floral viper
agile does not force you to be stupid if you are smart about it
yeah ap = action point
undone berry
Agile doesn't - agile is an adjective which in most cases could be replaced with "good"
I'm talking about Scrum
floral viper
Neither does scrum
undone berry
which is an implementation of the ideas in the agile handbook
And scrum sets out pretty clear sets of processes
floral viper
You don't need to discuss the finer points in the termology with me. I have worked in the industry for several years and I know agile development very well.
undone berry
which if you follow as described/as-taught - can be very frustrating
Agile is very clearly a good thing. Scrum on the other hand has obvious problems
Standups just don't work well for lots and lots of people
they might work well for some teams
floral viper
Sure, but it is better than waterfall, despite the fact that some industries need some amount of waterfall
undone berry
I agree - Scrum is better than what was happening before the idea of agile was around, but eventually someone will publish the equivalent of "Scrum and XP from the Trenches" and slowly people will move towards something better than Scrum
floral viper
In any case how you implement scrum is entirely up to you as a company. There are some recommended practices but it is not a rulebook in the sense that you need to follow it if you don't wanna go to hell
And I don't think I recall any case where fundamentalism has made something better
undone berry
It is of course up to companies. But big companies tend to implement it in very similar ways, and in ways that aren't actually conducive to making devs happy
floral viper
That's big companies for ya
undone berry
Lots and lots of companies do use scrum like a rulebook
I know lots of people at big corps who have had very similar experiences
undone berry
Scrum is just the first big implementation of the agile handbook - another will come along eventually
floral viper
Sure, I get your point charlie. I also don't think scrum and agile is a silver bullet and I also know some managers treat it as such. What I am saying is that does not necessarily mean scrum is bad, but that some practitioners of it do things in stupid and non-productive ways.
Where scrum is implemented in a good way, very few problems exist. The problems that do exist have in my experience more to do with the individuals and the culture of the people doing the scrum
undone berry
I would 100% prefer to work for a company doing scrum vs a company doing "your manager tells you what the fuck to do". But my point is that i don't think choosing to implement scrum things in your open source project is a necessarily good idea. As a group of people, figure out how exactly you want to solve the underlying problems
Github issues, messages on progress updates in a Discord channel, regular meetings, meetings when everyone feels like they might be a good idea - all of those can solve the same problems as standups
and as they go - standups are generally pretty irritating if you're working 100% remotely
Right now companies use scrum because there's no alternative to scrum that has a name
lofty dirge
and it's best of what are all going to be bad systems
undone berry
I don't think it's the best - I think in 20 years time no one will be doing Scrum
well - maybe Oracle will
but no one serious
I think I'm overestimating the speed at which companies move - say 50
lofty dirge
narrow pecan
Since we have a lot of agile knowledgeable people here, what framework do you think would be best for a single person working on a very large project?
undone berry
The waterfall method was never a method that companies explicitly chose. The waterfall method was identified in a paper in the 70s as what companies shouldn't do
(about software)
and the term waterfall wasn't used for safety critical projects or the like til after that paper
even if the process was being applied
floral viper
I would say it is entirely up to you.
narrow pecan
Yep. I think it’ll be only me
undone berry
I also reject the idea that Kanban is a method in and of itself - it's just an alternative way of writing a TODOlist
narrow pecan
Maybe I’ll drag some other people along, but it’ll just be me in the start
lofty dirge
Sure, but it's best way to describe the method
floral viper
doing kanban makes you feel like a wise sensei
undone berry
that's a very good comic
floral viper
working at mitsubishi or wherever the fuck it was invented
undone berry
Toyota I think?
undone berry
I don't know - I just remember some crusty old lecturer banging on about cars for ages
floral viper
yeah bloody hell it was
narrow pecan
Any other reasonable methods than Kanban?
undone berry
Kanban is just a way of organising tasks - but it's a pretty good one
narrow pecan
From what I’ve heard, Kanban seems nice and possible as a solo team as well. Just wanna evaluate the options
lofty dirge
With single person, it's generally, you have shit to do, you need to keep track of what shit you are working on and any dependencies
Kanban is probably most well known method for handling that
floral viper
Most of these methods are for organizing teams in bigger companies though. You don't get that much out of em working solo imo
lofty dirge
Scrum is more about organization and business keeping it's MBA employed
narrow pecan
Yeah, true
undone berry
What I usually end up doing for solo stuff is just doing whatever the fuck I feel like for the first 80%, then writing a TODOlist for what needs to get done for the first release, and just tick things off
lofty dirge
Agile is developers saying "Screw all of that"
floral viper
Kinda the same charlie
I keep track of issues and I make sure to do proper commit messages, but apart from that I just go where the code flow takes me
narrow pecan
Scrum is an agile framework, or what do you mean?
undone berry
Project and software methodologies/frameworks are not clearly defined set in stone things. No business is just doing Kanban - because Kanban is a way of writing a todolist and seeing who's up to what
and Kanban is in no way necessarily agile
you could 100% do Kanban+waterfall
I tend to try and write good commit messages, but it falls apart as I'm getting frustrated
floral viper
That's what the issues are for charlie 😄
having a solid commit template helps a lot imo
undone berry
Commit templates seem like a good idea. Not sure about associating commits directly with issues though - seems like you might end up with some unnecessarily beefy commits
but my git usage on the whole aint great
floral viper
no you take out all your frustrations writing the issue summary, that's what I meant 😄
You can track issues in most modern git hosting sites, such as github or gitlab
narrow pecan
How do you usually structure your commit messages?
floral viper
I only associate a commit with an issue if I resolve the issue with the commit
undone berry
oh sure - that makes sense
lofty dirge
problem with commit templates is you could encourage less commits which can be problematic
floral viper
Yes, I agree rabbit
that's a problem of mine since we tend to do massive commits at work
biggest one I have done was 3k lines
which is NOT how you should work
narrow pecan
What are even commit templates?
lofty dirge
Vestergurkan, generally 1-2 line about what I did in this commit
you know word templates?
narrow pecan
Hmm, not quite
lofty dirge
Templates for Commit messages
undone berry
the best commits are the ones where the subject raises a question which the body then answers
at least I find them very satisfying to read
lofty dirge
!source
royal lakeBOT
lofty dirge
crap, they love squashing
narrow pecan
Fix something broken
- Moves the utils logic to a separate file
- Improves modularity
This is generally how I do my commit messages
lofty dirge
there are companies that expect you to fill out a little form in your commit message
like what did you do, what issue was it for
undone berry
if you want examples of good commit histories - Kotlin or the UK government's stuff
lofty dirge
but some companies will expect a form to be filled out in commit messages
which means devs won't commit and problems will occur
floral viper
@narrow pecan This is an example of a really simple template I made a while ago for a solo project. Whenever you commit you must write a summary of the what you changed, you must specify if the change was functional or not, and if it is functional you must also specify if the compilation and execution went ok. I would want to automate this using tests but I have since then put this project on ice
narrow pecan
Is that a single commit?
lofty dirge
yea down side of that level of BS, programmers might commit less often and you take away git ability to track changes
floral viper
but you sort of get the idea I hope
narrow pecan
Maybe I should start writing a paragraph as a summary instead of just doing a bullet list
Hmmm
floral viper
Pros and cons, it is really up to you how you work. If you work in a team you adhere to the team way of working
lofty dirge
like I may work on new feature and you will see commit history of "Initial template for fixing X"/"First testing attempting"/"Rewriting FooBar"/"Fixing up FooBar"
narrow pecan
Wouldn’t you just squash those?
lofty dirge
at my company? No
floral viper
nah squashing can destroy trackability
lofty dirge
NO SQUASH
Pull requests have better write out but I'm big fan of git track changes, let it track changes instead of ton of commenting out because you don't want to deal with committing
thus my dislike of commit templates
floral viper
I get that for personal project, I really do
lofty dirge
NO SQUASH
floral viper
Some industries does require more info in commit messages though
lofty dirge
I work in Finance
narrow pecan
And you can’t squash in finance?
lofty dirge
industries don't require it, some team lead without a clue does
floral viper
Let me see you explain signal processing code without a hefty commit message 😄
or better yet, let me see you review signal processing code without any info in the commit message
lofty dirge
I would hope the pull request would have all that
floral viper
We don't do pull requests
undone berry
at that point, is it not a problem with the code itself? If it's esoteric enough to need lots of text explaining it, beefy comments/docstrings seem like they might be a good thing
floral viper
I would say it is a problem with the method. It is not easy to explain why you would shift a zadoff-chu sequence x steps instead of y without a lot of background information
lofty dirge
yea, trying to read git blame is more frustrating then long comment
floral viper
it is pretty esoteric and you can't really escape it
undone berry
but that's kinda the point - what's wrong with a comment?
lofty dirge
I mean, who hasn't worked on Enterprise project with paragraph comment explaining terrible decisions that lie within
undone berry
Well - comments lying to you is probably the end result of the problem
yeah, I just realised. Comments with incorrect info are hell
and that's the inevitable result of most long comments
floral viper
nothing is wrong with a comment, but in our company we are also required to do a summary of the change in the commit message, and we often have to explain quite a lot.
lofty dirge
I've written several comments of "I know you wondering why this happening, let's explain the nightmare that brought us to this"
undone berry
now that sounds like more the kind of thing that would belong in a commit message
seems to me that good code has it be apparent what is happening, and the commits explain why
eh - no
I can see why you'd want a comment for that
lofty dirge
benefit of comments is also using git blame, you can see how old comment is
Charlie, comments are in same interface as programmer is working in
floral viper
The real benefit of comments imo is when the code starts doing bit magic
because there the code does not explain itself anymore. It's just a bunch of seemingly random shifts and xors
hoary steppe
git blame monday morning
undone berry
when the code starts doing bit magic - I find a different job
floral viper
a comment explaining how and why is gold
lofty dirge
so when you see python def spameggs(spam:int=None,egg:int=None): #So you are wondering why none is default #Well apparently foobar library requires None to be default #Or it segfaults, this behavior I can't explain but please don't mess with it #Despite sending in None causes TypeError if spam is None or egg is None: raise TypeError("None is not acceptable") return spam + eggs
developer right away can see what's going on
undone berry
yeah, I get that, it makes sense
floral viper
that viking sketch is brilliant btw
lofty dirge
?
lofty dirge
totally forgot about that
undone berry
the python spam/eggs names are inspired by the Monty Python sketch - is that what you're referring to?
or is there another similar sketch?
floral viper
yes
undone berry
what's viking about it?
floral viper
there is a bunch of viking at the resturaunt
undone berry
ohhhh yeah
floral viper
and they all starts singing spam spam spam when they say spam too many times
floral viper
then it changes to a viking ship rowing in the waves xD
the vikings are the best part, you start hearing that low spam spam spam singing in the background
then SPAMELY SPAM!
LOVELY SPAM
lofty dirge
IMO, Comments should explain code (if it's not easily understood), commit messages should be quick explanations for any changes and PR should explain why those changes are required, any problems with said changes
undone berry
it's such a fucking dumb sketch - I have no idea why it's so funny
but it really is hiarious
floral viper
IMO comments should explain the why of the code, not the what
agreed charlie 😄
unless there is bit magic, then also explain what
unless there is bit magic, then also explain what
hoary steppe
explaining src with comments 👀
floral viper
unless there is bit magic, then also explain what
lofty dirge
Source code is hopefully self explanatory
but comments are good place to clear up any confusion that can't be easily understood
like my example above
hoary steppe
i will try to add comments and tidy as possible if im willing to publish online
comments will help a lot :-)
floral viper
@undone berry @lofty dirge I had a massive argument with a colleague today that left me in a sour mood, but sitting down discussing the pros and cons of different software development methods with both of you made me feel a lot better. So I just wanted to say thank you 😄
fervent dock
send a direct message to @polar knoll to chat with the mod team
fervent dock
no worry
silver ruin
yea
silver ruin
but i use the inbuild python text editor
not the 'autocorrect' and all the other more features
young shoal
idle?
silver ruin
Umm yes
eternal wing
idle is bad xD
silver ruin
I find it way easyer
young shoal
ehhh it's not that bad
eternal wing
yeah, I used vscode for a bit when I was doing fullstack stuff without pycharm pro.
I recommend either
idle gets the job done haha
young shoal
it's perfectly fine
eternal wing
but I use sublime or vscode if I just need an editor
silver ruin
yea it gets the job done
I don't write that big code
I've only started using tkinter
eternal wing
idle is great start out on. It lets you focus on just learning the code.
silver ruin
defenetly
eternal wing
I like to get people on things like vscode or pycharm asap though since they are very useful to use. Even if they can be overwhelming at first
silver ruin
I guess gradually im probably going to stop using idle
im too lazy and pycharm was good enough
eternal wing
pycharm is the best imo
silver ruin
When i got a windows 10 vm,
It came with vs
it took 9 minutes to load
Last time i tried to load the vm,
My pc froze
after 16 minutes
eternal wing
that is not normal haha
silver ruin
my cursor moved 🤯
then it took like another 10 minutes to press alt+f4
and quit
I was litterally watching youtube most the time XD
What intel cores do you have?
im getting a new pc for myself and not for my mum, dad and sister to continuously do dumb things
I am gonna get vs with my pc
lunar shore
ei ei fisher
eternal wing
I have an amd 3700x, but the intel i5s are pretty good nowadays
lunar shore
Where's ur bot 😠
eternal wing
and i3s
lunar shore
I wanna contrib
eternal wing
on my GH
silver ruin
i have an i3
quaint rivet
fisher come to ot0, @rader dont interrupt 😅
silver ruin
it sucks
its old
my pc has ddr3
4gb ram
a broken headphone port
a broken cd port (sometimes works)
and a broken sd card reader
: )
eternal wing
cd readers are overrated now haha
eternal wing
I def have many pc build recommends
silver ruin
i can only listen to old town road 😅
lol my pc has to be about £200
i have seen a i7 for like £220
its a pc
not a desktop
what pc recommendations?
eternal wing
well, I build pcs.
I can recommend a build list if you have a price range and you are building a pc
silver ruin
I was thinking of building a pc,
but all the measurement stuff and thermal paste
what happens if you dont put thermal paste on your cpu?
eternal wing
it melts
most cpus come with thermal paste. It is super easy to apply though
and you do not worry about measurements mostly
you can use online tools, but most parts are very compatible
you can always @ me if you need pc advice
gentle moss
no thermal paste = poor heat transfer = overheated CPU = thermal throttling and potentially damage
the heatsinks that are provided with CPU's when you buy them stand alone have little pads of thermal paste on the bottom already
silver ruin
uuuh
silver ruin
ooh
Wait a sec, this might take a second to type
So basically, We have a windows xp desktop
and there was a fan like that
in a bit, we realised there was thermal paste
and a cpu under it
so is that what you have to do if you want to build a pc
CPU/Thermalpaste/Fan thing
gentle moss
yeah. you put the CPU in the motherboard socket and lock it in, then lower the heatsink down onto it and clip (or bolt) it into the mounting sockets
gentle moss
if you're applying thermal paste yourself you just smear some thinly and evenly across the CPU socket before lowering the heatsink onto it
always remove old thermal paste before applying new thermal paste
silver ruin
what happens if you put too much
gentle moss
if you remove a heatsink always replace the thermal paste
putting too much on can cause over heating issues
thermal paste is pretty good at transferring heat
but if it's too thick then it's not going to work
silver ruin
so if you put too much it will melt
gentle moss
well not melt melt, but you could potentially damage it
the general rule is you want about a pea sized drop amount
really don't need a lot
gentle moss
because all it should really be doing is filling in the air gaps between the heatsink and the CPU heat spreader
silver ruin
I need to watch more Linus Tech Tips
Ok, you've convinced me
I'll make a computer
(with your help, of cource)
if you can
gentle moss
there are plenty of good guides about building PC's out there
silver ruin
I'll use those too
gentle moss
people in here would be willing to help, for sure
silver ruin
yea
gentle moss
building a PC is a good opportunity to learn stuff. 👌
eternal wing
get a noctua doe xD
gentle moss
chunky bois
i think the fenrir evo i've got is probably still suitable for newer CPUs
undone berry
I feel like building a PC at this point doesn't really teach all that much. If you just keep pcpartpicker happy, it's pretty much impossible to go wrong
floral viper
it does teaches interfaces and basic components
gentle moss
well i think in younger people it's good exposure to the inside of something electronic
even if it is just slotting stuff together
there's the whole process of it as well
floral viper
it is essentially lego, but lego is great for teaching
undone berry
maybe - I could build most PCs, but I couldn't touch a toaster in any way that's useful
I don't know how much of the fundamentals carry across to other fields is the thing. I've never thought about actual electricity when it comes to pcs beyond touching a radiator beforehand
floral viper
Nah pc's are very specialized
but you sorta learn the different interfaces and what goes with what and such
sata goes with sata, not with m2 for example
gentle moss
well i mean you probably have thought about the electricity before
you weren't using a 250watt PSU or w/e
because you had shit to run
floral viper
Nah if you wanna get into electronics from the computer point of view I would suggest picking up embedded development
undone berry
I was using a 750watt PSU with what could easily have been run on a 450 watt PSU - but because I understood nothing I went with a cheap 750 one which exploded
didn't teach me anything except don't buy cheap shit
I say exploded - not even that exciting, just sort of died
the ultimate guide to building PCs:
- Don't buy unknown brands
- Keep pcpartpicker happy
- Buy AMD
- Buy an SSD
floral viper
I always had issues with amd
driver issues
So i went with nvidia last time i built
never regretted it
undone berry
1/2 are the only actual hard/fast rules - 3/4 are just things that are correct but that you have to persuade people so
floral viper
I was running amd stuff for 10 years, was not very happy with em
I'm ok with spending some more money to get a nvidia card
for cpu stuff I can't really complain though
undone berry
that's (AMD stuff) a separate discussion that I can't face right now. But my point is that I don't feel building PCs has too many transferable skills - especially as practically no one can afford to do it regularly
floral viper
was running a phenom 2 x6 for like 8 years, the darn thing was solid af
undone berry
yeah - the GPUs aren't great if you want highend
eternal wing
we teach pc building to students
it might not surprise you how quickly cpu pins are at 90 degree angles
undone berry
Changing a tire teaches more transferable skills/useful knowledge than building PC
floral viper
I sorta agree with you charlie. Fiddling around with a raspberry pi teaches a lot more about actual computers than building a pc does
undone berry
for example, it teaches you that wheel locking nuts are absolute fucking bastards
gentle moss
i'd kind of like it if that one guy i work with could use a screwdriver faster than a slug
he could've done with some PC building
undone berry
haha - what he needs is to put some Ikea furniture together
gentle moss
i think laptop work is a step up from just bolting a PC together
undone berry
100%
gentle moss
just slightly more complex levels of taking stuff apart and putting it back together the smaller devices get
undone berry
yeah, and you generally need to at least think about the specifics of the laptop in hand - if not looking up actual specs/details
like, laptops come in all sorts of different configurations that you kinda need to know before taking them apart
gentle moss
my least favourite bit is still the snappy plastic clips
taking apart a brand new £2k laptop to put a massive SSD in it and the only way in is through the roof
undone berry
I just remembered that my PC is using a mcdonalds coffee loyalty card to keep a fan from making an awful sound by pushing it away from some wires
that's very janky
gentle moss
sounds reasonable
silver ruin
lol big brain
undone berry
I don't think I'd want to touch most laptops myself
silver ruin
agreed
gentle moss
don't mind working on mine, little stressful working on the expensive ones of customers
eternal wing
all I'll do with laptops is swap ram and hdd
rough sapphire
I don't enjoy tinkering with hardware generally. I can do it. I built this PC. But I nearly had anxiety attack putting the cooler on the cpu head.
Its not something I do for a good time, thats for sure.
I'm very disappointed today.
I had plans that hinged on a few other parties. At the last minute, one party almost backed out.
This made everyone else go, "Oh I guess it's not going to happen."
And then the original party changed their mind again and was on.
And now I cant gather everyone back because one person had a brief ambivalence.
People are not worth it.
ancient stream
I kinda enjoy hardware side of things. Like I really wanna sleeve my own cables but man thats a nightmare I heard
cosmic lotus
You getting eaten POV
rough sapphire
hi
im facing installation issues for pyobjc
i checked yt , chrome but not finding any solutions
inland wolf
cosmic lotus
😋
quick ledge
distrubingly, "help i accidently ate poop" is the only query that makes sense
I don't know how I feel about that
gentle moss
"help i accidentally ate gluten" would also make sense if a person couldn't eat gluten
eternal wing
this is underrated
tranquil orchid
Accidentally ate a helicopter
median domeBOT
otn hewp-i-accidentawwy-swawwowed-a-pet-named-steve
mild abyss
.randomcase 764405160566456394
median domeBOT
OTn HEwp-i-acCIdEnTawWy-sWAwwowED-A-pet-named-StEve
inland wolf
k
rough sapphire
Does anyone have problems accessing sendgrid website
undone berry
seems a bit slow to me - but I can access app.sendgrid.com
rough sapphire
lol
mild abyss
it worked on mine
signing up doesn't work
@rough sapphire aaah nvm
what does signing up loook like?
like when it loads
mild abyss
i see
rough sapphire
the Create Account btn stays grey
rough sapphire
I did now after a lot of hours
undone berry
Sendgrid is very nice to use - as long as you're not doing >100 emails/day, it's free and fantastic
mild abyss
I did now after a lot of hours
@rough sapphire well at least youre there now...
rough sapphire
hihi
sour forge
Sendgrid is very nice to use - as long as you're not doing >100 emails/day, it's free and fantastic
@undone berry ime they ask for a lot of details. They also automatically assume that you are working for an organization and ask for website and stuff and if you can't provide those then account activation is a hassle
high solstice
Has anyone regulated a rpi themselves through the gpio power and ground pins?
undone berry
@sour forge I have only ever used it from the POV of an organisation in fairness. The actual API/Python SDK is super smooth though, and once you're signed up you get a pretty nice to use set of tools
quaint rivet
sendgrid is included in Github education pack :)
sour forge
yeah I had use it back when I didn't have education pack.
thing is, once I activated sendgrid, I still couldn't get it to work and then I just used vanilla gmail lol
quaint rivet
also for some reason sendgrid has a weird sign up ux 
sour forge
they kept asking for more info
quaint rivet
Yeah
undone berry
sendgrid is included in Github education pack :)
Is it? All I see is $50 in twilio credit
There's Mailgun
quaint rivet
hm lemme check if it's still there
the github website doesn't list it anymore
but
they still have this page on their website, you can give it a try ig
undone berry
huh - that looks like it might actually work. Although I doin't actually have the education pack setup apparently
rough sapphire
why do I get this error in unity when I try to add a script component to an object
young shoal
looks like it's because the class can't be found
rough sapphire
no the calss name matches the file name
young shoal
can you find it
undone berry
Have you checked the different options from this SO post? seems like you've covered no.1 at least, and I think no.2 as well https://stackoverflow.com/questions/51713497/cant-add-script-component-because-the-script-class-cannot-be-found
the second answer seems like it might be useful
rough sapphire
no i just added a simple public variable
that is all
ill try three
ok i think this is the problem
but what is a dll
rough sapphire
yeah im reading about them in the microsoft docs
oh wait
what
this has to do with the text editor
quaint rivet
r u using qt
rough sapphire
the file is open on another text editor?
quaint rivet
or any framework
rough sapphire
no its open on another text ediotr
this doesnt make sense
im getting an error saying that i cant delete this file bc it is open in another text editor
graceful basin
best way to deal with those kinds of errors is to restart the PC
graceful basin
you may have ctrl+Z'd vim somewhere
rough sapphire
maybe
ill just leave the file there
i think ill just reset the project
i only made like 4 cubes in the map
sand inlet
@twin hearth __add__ existed in python 1.5.2
that's the oldest version of python i can find documentation for
twin hearth
dang
cerulean venture
twin hearth
@sand inlet can you answer a quick question of mine if you are familiar with sqlite3 ?
sand inlet
i'm not familiar with sqlite3
twin hearth
thats fine mate
topaz aurora
rough sapphire
have anyone here watched Begin Again ?
quick ledge
quantum bogosort?
is that just bogosort?
random.shuffle(list) and check whether it is sorted
I think
ah, quantum bogosort is the best case scenario
ok so you gotta use threading, and spawn a universe in each thread
now yo gotta check whether the list in each thread is sorted. if a list in any particular thread is not sorted, you can delete the thread.
otherwise, you are good.
better download more ram and a couple of ryzen threadrippers for ease of calculation
wooden silo
You don't need threading. Quantum randomization will automatically create n! universes.
So each universe will contain its own Python process.
@solemn reef The issue isn't the Python implementation, it's getting the hardware necessary to randomize a list quantumly.
Once you have it, you just need a Python library to interface with it.
quick ledge
You don't need threading. Quantum randomization will automatically create n! universes.
@wooden silo but there arent any good way to keep track of the universes in python
quick ledge
lol
soft violet
I expect it would be difficult to use a quantum computer, sometimes. Half the time you go to use it, the bloody thing never existed in the first place and some other you from a parallel universe is using your computer, the bastard.
young shoal
eh?
wooden silo
@quick ledge You can't solve that in software in any language, you need dedicated hardware, which you would call through a library interface.
quick ledge
I expect it would be difficult to use a quantum computer, sometimes. Half the time you go to use it, the bloody thing never existed in the first place and some other you from a parallel universe is using your computer, the bastard.
@soft violet relatable.
@quick ledge You can't solve that in software in any language, you need dedicated hardware, which you would call through a library interface.
I mean, you are the expert
eternal wing
yeah, dont you hate when you sit down at your computer and the computer just is not there. And you are not at your desk.
And there are cats everywhere for some reason
ancient stream
XD
eternal wing
i dont think this is the same universe though
well, are youEvil Rarisma?
quick ledge
i dont think this is the same universe though
@solemn reefdel universe
ancient stream
A woman is at her deceased husband's funeral and a man leans in and asks her "Do you mind if I say a word?"
"Go right ahead" she replies.
The man stands up, clears his throat "Plethora." and sits back down quietly.
The women with tears in her eyes says "Thanks, that means a lot."
eternal wing
no im just doing my quantum cs degree
then no, this is not your universe
solemn reef
no its
os.remove("universe.ttf")
eternal wing
LOL @ Natani
ancient stream
😛
I was trying to type it up being the conversation moved on so I wasn't interrupting, I type slow sorry
eternal wing
charlie has no power here, his tea abilities should have faded by this time of the day.
quick ledge
lol
undone berry
it's 19:23pm - that's prime time for a cup of tea
eternal wing
dang it, I should have known this would summon him
quick ledge
impressive, fisher
eternal wing
also: with caffeine??
also also do you only drink black tea? I forget what your tea preferences were
low chasm
Hi
median domeBOT
hewwo
low chasm
o wait what
ancient stream
spooky
eternal wing
such a spooky mystery we will never solve
ancient stream
2 spooky 4 me
quick ledge
username checks out
eternal wing
whoa, thats deep
low chasm
lol
ancient stream
doot doot, the skeleton army will rise
undone berry
Tea preferences are black (breakfast) tea w/ milk and sugar
and there is caffeine, but like 5% as much as in coffee
also - it's pretty common to have coffee after dinner, and that has far more caffeine
ancient stream
wait you do put milk in tea
undone berry
of course
quick ledge
@eternal wing was it your fiance who was working on a book? 🤔
how is that going?
eternal wing
she is. But she is now my ex.
The book is going well, the fiance part not so much 🙃
quick ledge
Oh sorry, my bad
eternal wing
no worries, cool you remembered, haha
also - it's pretty common to have coffee after dinner, and that has far more caffeine
if I drink coffee late I just don't sleep haha
undone berry
I usually avoid it if I want to go to bed in the next 3 or 4 hrs
ancient stream
So does anyone know miracast at all? My tablet can't seem to connect to my webos tv
eternal wing
I do not 🙃
This has been me "helping" xD
ancient stream
Idk why webos and wi does 10 has to be such pains
Like all I wanna do is watch crunchy roll on my tv in bed is that so hard
eternal wing
apparently
crunchy role would play adds for a ton even when on paid subscription, it made me so mad I never went back LOL
ancient stream
I haven't ran into an ad yet and I've been watching MHA season 4
Finally got miracast working but sometimes the audio jitters
eternal wing
my hero? I could not really get into it xD I watched a good chunk of season 1
ancient stream
Ya, idk I just really like it lol
But I also like DBZ too. Which is odd. My wife hates DBZ but likes MHA
rough sapphire
MHA is ok, FMA is good
ancient stream
Fma?
rough sapphire
full metal alchemist
stark prawn
fma:b is the better version
eternal wing
I think I watched brotherhood second.
It is tough. I really like both of them. I think brotherhood obviously got the story better, but the character development in not brotherhood was better imo
ancient stream
Ya I forgot that for some reason. I dunno, I think each have their merits.
rough sapphire
Hello, I have a problem - I know that I can send 4 messages every 10 seconds, although, not each per 2.5, they can only be sent all together, every 10 seconds at most. Now, I know that in an hour I can send 1440 messages, but how do I know how often 4 messages should be sent to reach x amount of messages in y time?
young shoal
you know you can send 4 messages every 10 seconds
you only have to deal with when the time is less than 10 seconds
rough sapphire
10 seconds is delay
Time is another thing
Hour is time
I can send 1440 messages in an hour with 10 secs of delay from each send
young shoal
you can send 4 messages per 10 seconds right?
rough sapphire
Yes
This is what we have:
Set of messages = 4 messages
Delay = 10 seconds
Formula to calculate messages per hours - Time(seconds) / Delay * Set of messages
Example with Time being an hour - 3600 / 10 * 4 = 1440 messages/hour
young shoal
it seems you can calculate it yourself?
rough sapphire
Well thats how many messages I can send with delay always being 10 seconds
But I want to know with given Time and Amount of messages to be sent, what will the delay be
Sorry in my initial message I explained it wrong
eternal wing
@terse sluice any chance you are free to help explain some ci/cd stuff a bit?
or maybe point me somewhere I can learn.
the examples you sent were good, but I do not understand them very well.
terse sluice
i'll try my best, what's up?
eternal wing
well: I am just trying to deploy react, but I cannot even get the checks to run. I was following some simple tutorials. The checks were failing with syntax errors, I fixed the syntax, so now it just shows that zero checks run.
I am mostly just unsure where I can look to learn this stuff
when I google, it is just 100 copies of the same article haha
any way, to be more concise:
is the idea that these checks run, then send data to a webhook on my server to let it know to pull and build?
terse sluice
the checks run, and if they're successful, it'll trigger a webhook and tell your server to deploy
the building should run on github actions
eternal wing
ok, and I assume I just create the webhook in settings? and then use a tool like what you sent to listen for webhooks?
And is the file built to the repo itself then? so my server is only being told to pull?
terse sluice
the thing i sent was a webhook server
it listens for a get request at a specific endpoint
i recommend setting up at least basic auth on your web server for that
eternal wing
ty, ok. that is helpful.
I am mostly having trouble finding resources on how to write this. I guess I just struggle with yml? lol
terse sluice
so when the checks finish and are successful, it'll send a get request to that endpoint with the correct credentials
the webhook server will then run a script
eternal wing
ok, hmmm. That will be another thing to figure out
terse sluice
which pulls and redeploys
eternal wing
the guides I saw used yarn, but that did not work, so I am trying npm now? but i do not understand how either would be valid.
narrow pecan
Any CI/CD library/framework/tool that you’d recommend for a Django REST API + React + Postgres web app?
eternal wing
im practicing this now because I really need to setup ci/cd for my bot and django
terse sluice
ik, but what does that have to do with this lmao
eternal wing
needs to be built, a tutorial recommended yarn to install dependencies and build. And I cant find any other info... So I am limping here haha
terse sluice
oh okay
eternal wing
I would really like if I could find a comprehensive guide/docs, but I am not seeing anything online
terse sluice
i thought you were saying that was for sending a webhook or something lmao
eternal wing
no. I am confused though, my checks only show up if there are syntax errors, otherwise it just shows zero checks
terse sluice
can you show me what you have?
eternal wing
yeah, one sec
quaint rivet
hmm, are you trying to automate building using Docker?
eternal wing
I am not using docker
quaint rivet
what r using then 👀
eternal wing
oh nice, the check at least ran this time
quaint rivet
yeah
eternal wing
yeah, I am unsure how to use it in this scenario, learning step by step
since I just need a build folder for the site in my virtual host
idk how that would work with docker. Or the benefit of using docker there
name: Continuous Integration
on: [pull_request]
jobs:
buildAndTest:
name: Build and Test
runs-on: ubuntu-latest
steps:
- uses: actions/checkout@v1
- name: Install Dependencies
run: npm install
- name: Build
run: npm run build
cool, this ran, but did fail
quaint rivet
eternal wing
because it is running in root dir, need to find someway to tell it to look for packages in a diff dir
terse sluice
why not yarn though, again?
narrow pecan
Docker just seems huge to me. Shouldn’t there be any lightweight way to do it?
terse sluice
why do you think it's huge?
quaint rivet
Github action will be running docker not ur computer, why worry if huge
terse sluice
docker would make this easier
quaint rivet
terse sluice
lmao
eternal wing
so it looks like npm is looking for the dependencies wherever this check is running, but I need it to look for them where they are?
and I assume that means it will also build to a directory I do not want
how would I incorporate docker into this?
narrow pecan
From the only time I’ve tried docker (CE or something), it made my computer use its cute fans and was just a huge package to download
I’ve been afraid of docker ever since
eternal wing
docker is nice, but I do not understand where it would come into play here
since deploying is only two commands git pull and npm run build
hmm, well I am a bit lost and cant find any resources on this
I would appreciate any references to how to learn how to do this haha
terse sluice
tbh i just ran in blindly, hit 4234 walls, and eventually figured out CI/CD lol
eternal wing
so that is foreal how everyone does it?
that is how it feels, but that seems odd
ok, I will work that way then haha
terse sluice
lol there's probably a better way
but anyway
docker would solve your directory issues or whatever
eternal wing
this seems like a bit of an uncommon way to do things. Most of the references I find are on enterprise tools for this haha
wouldnt docker be running on my server though?
narrow pecan
saltstack
terse sluice
you can try out ansible or salt stack if you'd like
i was confused out of my mind when i first looked at the docs for them lmao
eternal wing
meh, I hear k8 is used for this, so I think that would be the route to go, if I was trying to learn how to do this correctly
narrow pecan
Isn’t saltstack the terrible thing you’ve all been warning about?
eternal wing
I feel like it makes more sense to just write a python script that listens to a webhook. I just need it to git pull and npm run build whenever a change is merged to master
terse sluice
it shouldn't
eternal wing
auto building into dev and master would be nice, but not super necessary
quaint rivet
yeah, pydis devops team hates salt stack
@terse sluice I see it in #dev-log all the time wdym
eternal wing
the changes will be on the live site xD but meh
narrow pecan
Kubernetes?
terse sluice
yeah
terse sluice
for docker, i also ran around blindly until i figured it out
quaint rivet
lmaoo
narrow pecan
Is that used for CI/CD?
quaint rivet
is that what u do with everything lmao
terse sluice
it can be used for CI/CD yeah
terse sluice
managing deployment of containers, allocation of resources between containers, exposure of specific services to the outside world, health monitoring, load balancing, config of the apps running in them, etc.
basically what you think it is
narrow pecan
Ah okayyy
eternal wing
interestingly enough, the node.js premade yml fails as well for the same reason
which I guess is good for me
quaint rivet
here
eternal wing
Ill just keep pinging up the ranks LOL
quaint rivet
terse sluice
hahahahah
quaint rivet
covers compose too 👍
eternal wing
ty, I am still confused where docker would help here. Unless you guys just mean the cloud components, not docker-compose
@ joe
jkjkjk, I will push my brain, I am good at this I swear
narrow pecan
Stahp the fake pings
eternal wing
Stahp the fake pings
is there a real reason not to fake ping? haha
terse sluice
so you build the container, push to dockerhub or github registry, and pull from your server
eternal wing
ohhh I see, ty
quaint rivet
when
eternal wing
I will opt not to use in this case
terse sluice
lmao fair enough
eternal wing
I learned docker for the code jam, ive been using it excessively ever since
terse sluice
ever since i learned docker, i use it for like every project
narrow pecan
is there a real reason not to fake ping? haha
@eternal wing is there a real reason to fake ping?
quaint rivet
lol why do u think u shouldn't use Docker in this case as well
eternal wing
literally same
haha, I suppose not. I just think it is funny, or I am trying to direct a message to someone who is in the chat, but it is not necessary to actually ping
terse sluice
rust dockerfiles are fun
##### Build Image #####
FROM rust:1.46 as builder
# Don't download Rust docs
RUN rustup set profile minimal
# Install DB packages
RUN apt-get update && apt-get install -y \
--no-install-recommends \
libpq-dev \
&& rm -rf /var/lib/apt/lists/*
# Create dummy project to build and install dependencies
RUN USER=root cargo new --bin /app
WORKDIR /app
# Copy over manifests and build files
COPY ./Cargo.* ./
COPY ./rust-toolchain ./rust-toolchain
# Build dependencies and removes the dummy project
# except for the target folder
RUN cargo build --release
RUN find . -not -path "./target*" -delete
# Copy the entire project
COPY . .
# Build full project
RUN cargo build --release
##### Runtime Image #####
FROM debian:buster-slim
# Install packages
RUN apt-get update && apt-get install -y \
--no-install-recommends \
openssl \
ca-certificates \
libpq5 \
&& rm -rf /var/lib/apt/lists/*
# Copy files from context and the built binary
COPY Rocket.toml .
COPY --from=builder /app/target/release/tinyy_backend .
CMD ["./tinyy_backend"]
lol
sorry for code dump
eternal wing
thats juicy
narrow pecan
“Thicc. That’s juicy”
Hmmm
terse sluice
i finally figured out how to cache dependency builds so i don't have to wait 7 hours for the container to rebuild after i change something
terse sluice
right above
quaint rivet
lol lemme see
terse sluice
quaint rivet
which part
terse sluice
so basically, you only copy over the cargo files, build, and then copy over everything else, and build again
so docker caches that first build layer, so you don't have to do it again unless dependencies change
it's commented on there
terse sluice
if you don't want to rebuild dependencies every single time
quaint rivet
it caches itself?
terse sluice
hm?
quaint rivet
I mean the dependencies, Docker decides itself to cache them?
terse sluice
docker caches every layer
and it uses the cached layers until it reaches a layer that has been changed
from there, it'll rebuild those layers after
a layer is each command run
terse sluice
so, if you built the dependencies and local project at the same time and edit your local project, you'll have to rebuild it all
quaint rivet
by running blindly lol?
terse sluice
but if you build your dependencies first, and then build the local project separately, it'll only rebuild the local project
saving you a lot of time
yeah basically lol
and also observing the docker build outputs
quaint rivet
hmm, it says using cache iirc
terse sluice
it uses cache up until a modified layer
terse sluice
basically yeah
median domeBOT
quaint rivet
.bookmark 764661891800498246
eternal wing
hmmm, I have it almost working it seems, but yarn now is not finding package.json. I do not know where it would be in this file system or how to tell yarn to look there
error Couldn't find a package.json file in "/home/runner/work/Reagurk/Reagurk"
lofty dirge
in docker?
eternal wing
in github ci
lofty dirge
looks like you are passing bad paths
eternal wing
yeah, I am not passing any paths, but whatever path it is defaulting to is not the correct one
lofty dirge
is your package.json inside root or subdirectory?
eternal wing
I think the examples I saw were using s3 to store their package.json files(?)
it is in a subdirectory
it is
Reagurk
---reagurk
-------package.json
so you probably need to do yarn /subdirectory/package.json
eternal wing
yeah, ty. I am trying to understand this better haha
eternal wing
ok, that makes sense. Ty
lofty dirge
eternal wing
is it correct to do yarn install file/location? I cannot find a flag or anything for it in yarn's docs
lofty dirge
trigger:
- master
pool:
vmImage: 'ubuntu-latest'
steps:
- task: NodeTool@0
inputs:
versionSpec: '10.x'
displayName: 'Install Node.js'
- script: |
npm install
npm run build
displayName: 'npm install and build'
- task: CopyFiles@2
inputs:
Contents: 'build/**' # Pull the build directory (React)
TargetFolder: '$(Build.ArtifactStagingDirectory)'
- task: PublishBuildArtifacts@1
inputs:
pathtoPublish: $(Build.ArtifactStagingDirectory) # dist or build files
ArtifactName: 'www' # output artifact named www```from the page I linked to
most docker images don't come with supporting node stuff like yarn and like
like at work when building angular inside a container, it won't have ng so I had to get npm instructions out of Web person
terse sluice
this otn reminds me of https://soundcloud.com/lemonsaurusrex/lint-before-you-push
terse sluice
lol no, just luck
eternal wing
yeah, funny we got 3 lemon channels xD
that song is a hit doe
lol, I get an email every time my CI fails
eternal wing
might as well be.
it is like INSTANT too, I pretty much got the email the same time it failed. My phone lit up LOL
terse sluice
lol this morning i woke up to like 7 notifications saying my web services went down
eternal wing
you can skip the caffeine then, I bet that was pleasant
terse sluice
lol they died for less than a second
eternal wing
LOLOL, god forbid you needed any passwords in those 656 microseconds, let alone the 2 other miliseconds.
terse sluice
lol
eternal wing
oh neat graphs
terse sluice
i have no clue what that failure means
cloudflare dns died for half a second? idk
is that statping integration?
@quaint rivet yeah
eternal wing
clouflare has been great btw
eternal wing
in fact you have taught me way too much this year lol
quaint rivet
yeah
eternal wing
so thank you
eternal wing
it just is really feature rich and super easy to set up.
eternal wing
my ssl is all certbot
eternal wing
haha, why?
eternal wing
also: update: my CI is working, but it also does not build anywhere
terse sluice
as long as you use strict, it’s fine
eternal wing
good to know
cool, my ci is not giving errors, but now I do not know what to do with the build folder. It is not saved anywhere or anything
but it is being successfully built in the container or whatever
eternal wing
I am still not totally sure xD
lel
I guess I would somehow upload that to some cloud service?
terse sluice
yeah
eternal wing
so I could in theory just upload it directly to my server in the dir it needs to go to?
without docker
eternal wing
I assume there is an issue here, because that would make too much sense. But I do not see anyone actually doing that.
it would remove multiple middlemen
terse sluice
i haven't seen anyone do that either
eternal wing
yeah, which is why I am assuming it is kinda wrong haha
I do not understand why docker would be used here. Since github is already a cloud service that can save the build file.
terse sluice
yes, so you can use the github container registry and save it there
eternal wing
ohhh fancy, ty. I have never heard of that
terse sluice
it's just an alternate dockerhub
eternal wing
oh 😛
terse sluice
but built into github
terse sluice
yes
quaint rivet
okay let's go
eternal wing
so what youre saying is..... I should use docker
terse sluice
yeaaaah
quaint rivet
does gitlab have something similar?
quaint rivet
gitlab has branch protection rules and better role management for free 👀
eternal wing
ok, so now I just need to figure out how to save the build to docker from the action, then update the local container on my pc with the current build.
i think
but I think that would mean that I would need apache to direct traffic to my docker container which would need its own webserver 🤔
eternal wing
that is the part I already get confused on haha.
as in: I just need static files accessible to apache so idk what the dockerfile would really be doing
terse sluice
you just need to make the static folder a volume to access it from the outside
anyway, i'm gonna buy tinyy.io now lol
it's been months
eternal wing
haha, ok, ty. I will need to take a break for the day.
this is a lot of work for gurkan website
eternal wing
ive been too intimidated to learn ci/cd for months now
just a good throwaway site to learn some new skills
terse sluice
hahahahah
eternal wing
hmmm, it seems bad to build from source in the server, but I cannot think of any simple way around it 🤔
meh, imma give up for the day LOL
ill have to figure out docker stuff tomorrow
perfect
eternal wing
ngl, rm -r is fun to use, rather than just meme-ing about it
welp, 9 dollars well spent for a sweet <h1> I made in nano
eternal wing
I should have the react site deployed tomorrow hopefully haha. It is still just that placeholder though, until we make it epic
quaint rivet
idk react 😔
eternal wing
its insanely easy to learn.
It will require learning/using js though
kinda
I mean, you can make functional components with like all HTML basically
quaint rivet
I mean ik js
eternal wing
and css of course
quaint rivet
have worked with nuxt a bit
eternal wing
yeah, if you know JS, react is not even a challenge to pick up
quaint rivet
yeah ik functional components only xD
eternal wing
imo it sacrifices readability and some logic for pure ease of use
eternal wing
general consensus is that class based == bad
I prefer class based, makes more sense to me, but the reactiflux server no like
quaint rivet
wait
terse sluice
i'm glad i didn't get the domain from google
eternal wing
jeeeze
eternal wing
namecheap only for me
terse sluice
it's a great registrar
eternal wing
mmmm pork bun
eternal wing
siopao
terse sluice
those are great
eternal wing
I have not eaten dinner lol. Today was a weird day for me xD
eternal wing
haha, I will eat dinner before sleeping. but yep. My schedule is whack
plucky grotto
I wish I could eat something now
rough sapphire
Yo emoteemotes
simple sand
!remind 9h 15min Watch Code Jam judgin live
royal lakeBOT
simple sand
lol
rough sapphire
!test
mild abyss
okay i will rust since you plan to right?
eternal wing
well, this will be a bit of a shrodinger situation
i'd be down to rust
that is actually the purpose of the other server LOL
royal lakeBOT
@solid pollen @eternal wing
It has arrived!
solid pollen
You're welcome
bleak lintel
rust
tranquil orchid
Go looks interesting but i think all the cool kids use rust
vapid kernel
go
halcyon mantle
sand goblet
I'm in the high 90s I think
honest star
19 and I was just thinking about leaving a couple I never visit