Believe it or not, some people are the same way with smoking.
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
tired haven
rough sapphire
Yeah, I know. Coming from marijuana culture, I know. Its not as widespread, but the people most entrenched in it dont understand that some people get negative reactions from it.
They should be more like, "If you dont want this you dont need it."
tired haven
Yeah, it's really stupid how people treat marijuana like it's harmless, too.
It's not as harmful as some other drugs, but it will damage you if done enough.
rough sapphire
I mean, it can be pretty harmless compared to the reaaction that people have to it.
eternal wing
LOL
rough sapphire
But yeah the problem is the most vocaal people are the most unreasonable
eternal wing
ok now the mods are being pinged behind the scenes LOL
tired haven
Neither have I. I have tried cocaine, though.
I understand why cocaine is illegal. lol
quick ledge
Just to clarify, I have never done drugs or drank alcohol
rough sapphire
To be fair, the illegalization of it just makes the black market aaround it flourish. I dont endorse cocaine obviously.
But I also think prohibition has obviously failed.
Portrugal seems to have figured out a good system
tired haven
I think most drugs should be decriminalized but not necessarily fully legalized.
They are dangerous, many of them, and should be restricted in their access.
rough sapphire
Right.
They shouldnt be sold in stores down the street but when people get found with them, the drugs should be seized, they should be informed that they get treatment at x place, etc
Move along
tired haven
Under a certain quantity, yeah. Over a certain quantity means you're a dealer, which should be illegal just like selling medications without the proper license.
rough sapphire
Yeah if its under a certain quantity, its probably best to let them keep their drugs so that they dont go into withdrawaal to be honest
That can affect crime
But if they have a large quantity it should probably be seized
tired haven
Well, that's why drug use should be treated like a medical issue, not a criminal one.
rough sapphire
Yeah I agree completely.
tired haven
unless someone's taking some drug like PCP to give themselves superhuman strength to commit a crime, of course.
rough sapphire
lol I think its been proven that that interpretation of what PCP does is innaccurate and exacerbated by the media.
Not that im saying its safe
But I think because it mixes badly with people who have mania naturally...
tired haven
Okay, I figured I was probably a little off the mark, but I think you know what I mean.
rough sapphire
Yah
tired haven
If someone is taking a drug to facilitate committing a crime, it should be an aggravating offense.
rough sapphire
TBH, if drugs were treated like medical problems instead of criminal ones, there would be less occasions where drug addicts did desperate things.
Because those drugs are usually the most addictive ones, not the weirdest ones.
The media makes it seem like PCP and LSD is what all these crazed people are on but no
tired haven
True.
rough sapphire
its opiates, benzos, meth
the ones that make them desperate
I'm pretty sure that PCP mostly doesn't exist anymore because of the stigma. But similar drugs like ketamine that we once thought had more brain damage capacity than they do are actually be discovered to have a lot of potetial for helping people who HAVE neurogenerative diseases https://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/guide/nmda-receptor-antagonists#1
tired haven
Interesting.
rough sapphire
Another reason that they need to stop just banning drugs.
They need to allow research to be done
tired haven
True.
rough sapphire
The biggest issue with using the class of drug to treat various things is the side effects.
While they might be enjoyable to some people, a lot of people have terrifying experiences on them that they dont want.
And it makes it kind of unrealistic in many situations
rough sapphire
legalization would also make the uber-violent cartels largely irrelevant
lofty dirge
Fun fact, PCP in United States is Schedule 2 Drug which means it can be utilized in narrow medical situations
unlike Marijuana which is Schedule 1 and thus is 100% illegal
young shoal
quite strange
lofty dirge
it is
floral viper
quite literally
young shoal
sorry, i didn't know what time zone you were in
rough sapphire
@primal spruce my main point was that nothing is really bad unless u make it bad, global vars arent bad but if u use them in a bad way, ofc theyre gonna become bad
sonic river
that kind of relativism is really not productive
young shoal
could you give like a github link or something
rough sapphire
https://github.com/EricPlayZ/ all i really have 
violet roost
OK, so can you give a specific example in there in which global vars are the best possible solution
rough sapphire
i do have a project which uses a wrapper based on python
sonic river
a mutable global state is so often strictly worse compared to a non-mutable one that it's universally bad to introduce anything that messes with it
primal spruce
@rough sapphire and I think the consensus on that is, that no, if it's a bad habit thats convenient, it's still a bad habit. Small code bases don't really highlight the problems you run into
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire and I think the consensus on that is, that no, if it's a bad habit thats convenient, it's still a bad habit. Small code bases don't really highlight the problems you run into
@primal spruce it doesnt mean u cant make it into a good one
also yes, ure right, cuz u dont have many problems
sonic river
can you show one example of a "good one"
primal spruce
Not with global vars. Sorry.
rough sapphire
can you show one example of a "good one"
@sonic river no, im not talking about examples here, im talking in general, anything in life really
primal spruce
Some things you just have to draw the line on.
rough sapphire
if theres smth bad, u can make it good and vice versa
young shoal
ok, but we're not talking about in general, we're talking about global vars
rough sapphire
humans are what makes bad and good
primal spruce
Just like Eval is evil. Global vars are too.
rough sapphire
not objects or everything around us
sonic river
that kind of relativism is really not productive
violet roost
Look
I'm sure you can make a nice program with global vars
but that doesn't mean you can make it as nice as or nicer than passing in variables in a local scope
sonic river
sadly this is getting dull, i'm out to sleep
rough sapphire
Just like Eval is evil. Global vars are too.
@primal spruce eval isnt evil, u make it evil if u USE it evilly
primal spruce
Pretty sure nothing good comes out of cigarettes or hard drugs if we're talking that way. Anyways this is really not a conversation I wish to continue
young shoal
no...eval is eivl
sonic river
using eval evilly == using eval
young shoal
there is no reason to use eval, ever
rough sapphire
Look
I'm sure you can make a nice program with global vars
but that doesn't mean you can make it as nice or nicer than passing in variables in a local scope
@violet roost ive already talked about this, theres situations where u cant really pass variables
sonic river
show one case where this statement is true
violet roost
and you haven't given a single good example @rough sapphire
primal spruce
No. Eval is literally bad. You still have no idea how bad these things get. Global vars is literally bad. You still have no idea how bad these things get.
violet roost
you made a statement but did not substantiate it
rough sapphire
there is no reason to use eval, ever
@young shoal there is, maybe like opening a script from ur own pc or smth which only u have access to
thats not a bad act, not unless if u run a script which deletes ur system LOL
primal spruce
You can choose to keep using them because "it's fine whatever", sure. But don't try to defend them.
rough sapphire
and you haven't given a single good example @rough sapphire
@violet roost cuz i dont have any code rn
sonic river
make a toy example
rough sapphire
No. Eval is literally bad. You still have no idea how bad these things get. Global vars is literally bad. You still have no idea how bad these things get.
@primal spruce what makes eval bad?
young shoal
runs arbitrary code
primal spruce
@primal spruce what makes eval bad?
@rough sapphire why can't you ask this question BEFORE arguing about it and trying to defend it?
sonic river
you can just write the code directly if the string is literal, and if it's not, you are introducing a vulnerability in your code
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire why can't you ask this question BEFORE arguing about it and trying to defend it?
@primal spruce cuz i wanna see ur point of view then argue again
thats how fights work lol
primal spruce
Do you?
young shoal
his point of view is the general consensus of the python community
sonic river
not to mention it renders static analysis tools useless
rough sapphire
eval(print('Hello, world!'))
@rough sapphire yes pretty much how the FUCK IS THAT EVIL LOL
sonic river
other than the fact that it doesn't work
rough sapphire
very eivl
young shoal
when you use it for anything other than a toy example
rough sapphire
print() is overrated
How is that not evil, do you know socket programming? If you were using exec and someone found out about it, they could just inject some payload and absolutely destroy your system
you can just do
print('hello world')
@sonic river yeah, but if u wanna run py code from discord...
use eval()
young shoal
use a bare eval and see how quickly someone nukes your server lol
rough sapphire
Unless you're doing it for your own, troll project, it's fine
eval(input())
How is that not evil, do you know socket programming? If you were using
execand someone found out about it, they could just inject some payload and absolutely destroy your system
@rough sapphire mate, again, if someone injects some payload and destroys ur system, thats THEIR FAULT, THEY made eval bad, eval itelf ISNT BAD unless its used by a person EVILLY
Wtf
young shoal
no, eval is always bad
sonic river
users are to be considered both dumb and evil
that's like the rule #1 of programming
young shoal
there is no way to use eval better than writing good code
rough sapphire
Unless you're doing it for your own, troll project, it's fine
@rough sapphire i was talking in general here, including for my own troll project sure yes
primal spruce
@rough sapphire mate, again, if someone injects some payload and destroys ur system, thats THEIR FAULT, THEY made eval bad, eval itelf ISNT BAD unless its used by a person EVILLY
@rough sapphire if you put cake in front of a kid, and they eat the cake.... Well, sure the kid ate the cake, but you put it there.
rough sapphire
there is no way to use eval better than writing good code
@young shoal ok then how tf do u run py code from discord
young shoal
snekbox
sonic river
you use sandboxed environments, you don't use a dumb eval out of nowhere
rough sapphire
eval and exec are functions YOU choose to use, it's YOUR choice if you want to use something like that
yeah what if they accidentally type __import__('os').system('delete system32')
sonic river
pretty much
rough sapphire
Yikes
@rough sapphire if you put cake in front of a kid, and they eat the cake.... Well, sure the kid ate the cake, but you put it there.
@primal spruce wtf is that e.g. tho XD also yes i put it there, the cake isnt bad but the person ate it, its his OWN PERSON who DID IT, u didnt do anything with him, its the kid who got so hungry when he saw it that he wanted to eat it, thats his fault, not mine
primal spruce
Right. So you can live with that, then sure.
rough sapphire
literally the number one rule, your customers are dumb idiots
@young shoal have we even mentioned customers even once in this fucking discussion wtf
so if you do something bad its not your fault?
that means you can do anything you want
young shoal
customers, users, the kid, whatever
mint lichen
πΏ yay drama
sonic river
not drama, we're discussing footguns in programming
rough sapphire
call in keemstar
so if you do something bad its not your fault?
@rough sapphire no, if u do smth bad its UR FAULT, if someone MADE U do smth bad, its still UR FAULT
primal spruce
Let's ask Google to reveal your password in public.
rough sapphire
well technically someone or something is making you do something bad
sonic river
are you the kind of person who crosses the road blindly saying it's the car's fault if you die ?
primal spruce
If someone misuses it, it's their faultm
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire This isn't a discussion, it's literally you avoiding arguments, not trying to understand the other person's narrative, then coming up with arguments that make absolutely no sense
If someone misuses it, it's their faultm
@primal spruce pretty much yeah exactly u got my point wow yeah yay
young shoal
ok, but you understand that in the case of global vars, it's not how you use it that's bad, it's literally global vars themselves that are bad
primal spruce
I don't think you're aligned to anything I'd like to say, so I shall bow out of this convo.
young shoal
good idea darr
violet roost
^
rough sapphire
^
@rough sapphire This isn't a discussion, it's literally you avoiding arguments, not trying to understand the other person's narrative, then coming up with arguments that make absolutely no sense
@rough sapphire no, my point was, from the beginning (literally use search to search for the beginning of the discussion) that global vars arent bad unless u use them in a bad manner
sonic river
in the case of global state, you, as a developer is the "dumb user", global variables are fine, until you write something bad, and don't realize until 6 months later you try to extend some functionality and get duplicated data or whatever
violet roost
that might explain this conversation
rough sapphire
"until you write something bad" @sonic river are u even hearing urself its literally the dev's fault, he wrote smth bad which caused the global state to be bad to him
sonic river
you are underestimating how hard writing code gets
and how much harder debugging it is
rough sapphire
harder, sure
not impossible
hey, even darr said it himself, writing toy code is easy but doing good practices is hard but awarding
sonic river
i know senior developers that get anxiety when they add a line of code to their work codebase
rough sapphire
same thing with global vars
sonic river
it can very much be near impossible
mint lichen
that... misses the point entirely. nothing is impossible, that doesn't mean that you should bang your head against it
rough sapphire
wait can i have an example how global vars can be harmful
sonic river
https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/148108/why-is-global-state-so-evil this lists about 10+ points
young shoal
great article
sonic river
basically, it's unflexible, and harder to track what's going on
if you have a problem somewhere in your function, you're creating a new branch for every function call vs just looking up the return values/parameters passed
rough sapphire
that... misses the point entirely. nothing is impossible, that doesn't mean that you should bang your head against it
@mint lichen exactly my point with the "good practices" point
basically, it's unflexible, and harder to track what's going on
@sonic river and ive already told u that too after reading the article
do u even read lol
ive said idgaf about debugging
young shoal
ok dude, you're just being annoying now
someone wants help and you're just interrupting
rough sapphire
i always mentioned readability and duplicates
not debugging/testing
that was never my problem with global vars
sonic river
nobody even mentioned stuff like shared mutable global in the case of threading
which basically cannot work properly
young shoal
oh god that's a nightmare
violet roost
ive said idgaf about debugging
the next person looking at your code most certainly will
rough sapphire
the next person looking at your code most certainly will
@violet roost code which i wont release cuz its a private bot? sure
sonic river
unless we're adding locks everytime we access it ofc
young shoal
GIL noises
rough sapphire
how do u even lock a thread in py lol
sonic river
if you are not planning on writing code in your life after that, then sure
you let the GIL do it for you
mint lichen
^ yeah that
rough sapphire
writing code isnt writing and posting
writing code is writing code
u do whatever the shit u want
sonic river
hf holding a job with that mentality lmao
young shoal
well, if you never work on a team, then yes
honest star
Oooh there should be a GIL emoji...
rough sapphire
im not gonna apply for a programming job what the fuck
sonic river
that doesn't apply to just programming
young shoal
not even for just a programming job lol
rough sapphire
then what
i wont even apply for a job in these fucking lockdowns either way
theyre extending it for a few months in my country again
i cant do shit
young shoal
send an email
rough sapphire
im soon gonna go in the forest and stay isolated like wtf fuck society
sonic river
if you take everything to the letter and do the "obvious bare minimum" (which is not even just writing code with programming but whatever), you're gonna be considered an underperforming employee/contributor/whatever forever
violet roost
but, if you don't care about having code which is at all readable, debuggable, etc
then I don't think how you treat your code is really a shining example of what is OK to use
You weren't mentioning your code specifically earlier
you were mentioning global vars in general
mint lichen
some things are better that others. if i want to walk to my bathroom i can either walk out of my room, through the corridor, open the door and go in, or I can jump out of the window, smash my front door with a hammer and then walk through the corridor and into the bathroom.. although most times the route is not that obvious
rough sapphire
if you take everything to the letter and do the "obvious bare minimum" (which is not even just writing code with programming but whatever), you're gonna be considered an underperforming employee/contributor/whatever forever
@sonic river again, who said im even going to apply for a job
this lockdown shit is going to last for another whole year possibly
sonic river
are you an hermit or something
rough sapphire
theyve already said 2 times theyre going to release us but they didnt
sonic river
you're not retiring in the next year, are you ?
you'll probably have to get a job at some point
rough sapphire
but, if you don't care about having code which is at all readable, debuggable, etc
then I don't think how you treat your code is really a shining example of what is OK to use
You weren't mentioning your code earlier
you were mentioning global vars in general
@violet roost to me, readable means global vars since i only define and assign them once and thats all
young shoal
i mean...
rough sapphire
you're not retiring in the next year, are you ?
@sonic river im not even applied for a job yet LOL
im doing my own hobby
acupuncture
its enough money to stay alive tbh
i'd rather do that and have less money than go with masks in a fucking closed space
mint lichen
if you want to advance that hobby and write more sophisticated and interesting code you will at some point need to adapt standards like not using global variables... if you don't then fine, but in that case I don't see why you're dragging this argument out lol
rough sapphire
my hobby isnt programming wtf lol
programming is just a fun thing i do
and sometimes not so fun and more srs but whatever
mint lichen
whatever it is then
rough sapphire
eh whatever im tired
violet roost
you were already tired before
young shoal
uh, a fun thing you do is a hobby
violet roost
why are you not in bed yet
rough sapphire
you were already tired before
@violet roost yes
uh, a fun thing you do is a hobby
@young shoal acupuncture is more of a job for me, and its not really a hobby if im living of of it
so programming isnt a hobby either
its just a side thing i do in my free time
young shoal
um, why can't you make a living off of your hobby?
sonic river
there's a tool i use often
violet roost
OK, have fun arguing out the definition of hobbies
sonic river
it's called helm for those interested
sonic river
it's written by a mountain guide
rough sapphire
um, why can't you make a living off of your hobby?
@young shoal working to stay alive isnt fun lol
sonic river
he's been working on it almost alone for the past 8 years, as a hobby
rough sapphire
thats hard work
mint lichen
hard work can be fun... as demonstrated by programming
young shoal
if you like what you're doing, it's a hobby regardless of if you make money from it or not Β―_(γ)_/Β―
mint lichen
so long as it's interesting and somewhat enjoyable..
rough sapphire
hard work can be fun... as demonstrated by programming
@mint lichen or frustrating with ppl like u XD
mint lichen
..what?
sonic river
think he meant "us"
young shoal
you're gonna meet lots of people on this server who think global vars are bad
i'm gonna say 80+%
rough sapphire
you're gonna meet lots of people on this server who think global vars are bad
@young shoal well they do they i do me
young shoal
sure Β―_(γ)_/Β―
rough sapphire
im done having these kind of hour long discussions lol
young shoal
did i say you did
sonic river
you said global variables can be good, we asked how, you dodged the question
rough sapphire
did i say you did
@young shoal no but then why r u mentioning it
you said global variables can be good, we asked how, you dodged the question
@sonic river i answered it, i said u can make them be good
idk HOW like SPECIFICALLY
sonic river
that doesn't answer the question "how"
rough sapphire
but they can be
young shoal
it's often said a dollar of prevention is worth 10 dollars of repair
mint lichen
what.
young shoal
or something like that
rough sapphire
as i said, anything in life can be made bad or good
mint lichen
yes but some things more easily than others
young shoal
no, being stabbed is never good
rough sapphire
it's often said a dollar of prevention is worth 10 dollars of repair
@young shoal thats true, but how will preventing me from saying that be good
mint lichen
some things are better that others. if i want to walk to my bathroom i can either walk out of my room, through the corridor, open the door and go in, or I can jump out of the window, smash my front door with a hammer and then walk through the corridor and into the bathroom.. although most times the route is not that obvious
@mint lichen let me quote myself again
rough sapphire
no, being stabbed is never good
@young shoal but u can make it be good
mint lichen
...
rough sapphire
if ure stabbing an innocent person thats bad
young shoal
no, if you were stabbed
sonic river
relativism is boring and almost never productive
rough sapphire
no, if you were stabbed
@young shoal yeah thats what i mean
if ure an innocent person thats bad
but if u were a criminal who were chasing some innocent dude then thats good that he stabbed u
lol
young shoal
ok, whatever, abandon the metaphor if you want to think that hard about it
sonic river
if you want to get philosophical we can get into the "what's good and bad?" question
rough sapphire
ok, whatever, abandon the metaphor if you want to think that hard about it
@young shoal no
if you want to get philosophical we can get into the "what's good and bad?" question
@sonic river no cuz that means ill have to explain the whole fucking universe to u
what im saying isnt philosophical
mint lichen
I...
rough sapphire
its more religious but whatever
young shoal
π€
mint lichen
ok just what is going on anymore
rough sapphire
huh weird how we came from global vars to religion
young shoal
well
young shoal
actually there is another example where global vars are good that i can think of
rough sapphire
cool
mint lichen
share the ancient secrets..
young shoal
for competitive programming, you want to code quickly
global vars are usually much faster to physically type down
since you're usually just running one algorithm, you don't have to worry about the bad parts of globals
rough sapphire
ayyy see, u found a good e.g. XD
young shoal
no one writes one alg for a project tho
sonic river
my take away is that global variables are good in an environment where bad code thrives
π
mint lichen
couldn't have put it better myself
rough sapphire
my take away is that global variables are good in an environment where bad code thrives
@sonic river ok now ure defining bad and good bruh
mint lichen
well, in any case, I think that knowing how to write good structured code is more important than competitive programming style code (which is obviously not obsolete, just less important). like, if you land a job through competitive programming but know nothing about structured code then you won't last long... amiright?
sonic river
so everything is relative, except morals, which you appear to be the one defining
young shoal
well writing code like a competitive programmer would write an algo is terrible coding
sonic river
bwahaha
mint lichen
in a real-world codebase though, that wouldn't be important... even detrimental
rough sapphire
so everything is relative, except morals, which you appear to be the one defining
@sonic river no, this has nothing to do with moral
young shoal
right, in cp, all your vars are 1 letter and you've got globals all over the place
rough sapphire
its more religious but whatever
sonic river
religion also doesn't have a monopoly on morals lmao
silver herald
Ugh I need someone to help me setup a cuda opencv environment so bad. Morale is at an all time low
rough sapphire
wtf are u even adding to religion now
what the fuck
im actually fucking talking about good and bad
sonic river
you're the one that keeps bringing it up
rough sapphire
God says nothing is bad unless u make it bad
sonic river
welp, i'm out
young shoal
christian?
rough sapphire
yes
sonic river
i don't feel like debating religion in a programming discord, i'm sure that's against the rules anyway
i bet god uses lisp or something and not python tho
mint lichen
it's within the rules I believe, I've seen a few discussions about religion on here, though much less heated...
young shoal
it's not explicitly against the rules, as long as it's civil it should be fine Β―_(γ)_/Β―
rough sapphire
ye
sonic river
well, in that case, i'd advise you to read an old book called "Du Contrat Social", which shows how morals can be dictated by a non-religious society and how they are still important
there's a whole chapter on religion as well
young shoal
on the social contract
young shoal
sure Β―_(γ)_/Β―
mint lichen
you can't say that something of which one exists is good or bad... there's nothing to compare it to?
sonic river
but the bearded man in the sky said so
rough sapphire
you can't say that something of which one exists is good or bad... there's nothing to compare it to?
@mint lichen u cant say something is good or bad is what my point was with the religious stuff
mint lichen
I mean, if we knew about lots of alien societies and civilizations and saw what their values consisted of, we could probably get a good bearing of how 'good' our society is
rough sapphire
Adam and Eve for example ate the apple, thats THEIR fault, they made bad actually exist
bad didnt exist until they ate it
evil didnt exist basically
neither did good
mint lichen
weren't they bad/evil in eating the apple tho
like if I make a website with a button which, when pressed, hacks a nuclear launch site and launches all of its missiles at every continent, and someone goes and presses it... that is kinda fucked up on all sides
rough sapphire
Adam and Eve arent evil, they just didnt do the right thing and turned the apple into evil, or made it evil for them
like if I make a website with a button which, when pressed, hacks a nuclear launch site and launches all of its missiles at every continent, and someone goes and presses it... that is kinda fucked up on all sides
@mint lichen not really
mint lichen
what?
rough sapphire
that button cant be harmful unless someone made it be harmful
like the one who presses it
once that is done, the button is harmful, its evil
mint lichen
yes but who the hell would make such a button in the first place? it's absolute madness
mint lichen
it's bad because of its potential. nuclear weapons for example, you can argue they're bad because they can level entire cities, but also they're good because they may be preventing larger wars. we don't know for sure
rough sapphire
I stab you. it's not harmful until you bleed out
@young shoal u stabbing me is harmful (unless im a criminal in which case if i deserve a death sentence then stabbing was a good choice, altho not really cuz no one else is supposed to take someone else's life other than God)
it's bad because of its potential. nuclear weapons for example, you can argue they're bad because they can level entire cities, but also they're good because they may be preventing larger wars. we don't know for sure
@mint lichen not cuz of its potential but cuz of its act
if someone pressed the button, its bad
if no one did anything, its not bad
its like a spider for example, u think they can harm u or shit like that but they dont do anything
unless u harm them, then they harm u back which makes them automatically evil
mint lichen
what do you think the intent of the people who were involved in designing nuclear weapons was? or perhaps more specifically, the people who decided to go ahead with the project
rough sapphire
what do you think the intent of the people who were involved in designing nuclear weapons was? or perhaps more specifically, the people who decided to lead the project
@mint lichen ok then what do u think the intent of God was? to bring evil? sure, but it wouldnt have been brought if Adam and Eve didnt eat the apple
ACTS is what make something bad or good, not its intent
or take this, its the best example u'll probably (hopefully) understand: ure bad at a competitive game, lets say rocket league, right? ok now, whats actually bad, the game or you?
pretty simple question
mint lichen
do you think they created nuclear weapons because they wanted to create a utopia? of course not. does that not make them evil? intent is important
obviously you, but that's not because the game designers wanted to make you bad at it. it's not by design or shaped by intent.
sonic river
so if i make like a landmine or something, and hide it somewhere, then someone walks on it blowing up people, the one who walked on it is evil ?
even if they didn't know it was there
rough sapphire
obviously you, but that's not because the game designers wanted to make you bad at it. it's not by design or shaped by intent.
@mint lichen well the game isnt good or bad
ure the one making it good or bad
mint lichen
good example - the person wanted to harm someone by placing the landmine
rough sapphire
are you guys arguing about the intents of god?
sonic river
what makes good or bad
mint lichen
intent of people in general + god because why not
rough sapphire
so if i make like a landmine or something, and hide it somewhere, then someone walks on it blowing up people, the one who walked on it is evil ?
@sonic river wtf how would the one walking on it be evil XD if he dies cuz of u, its ur fault basically
sonic river
so the nuke guy is fine, but the mine guy not ?
rough sapphire
unless ure talking about a landmine in a fucking city or some shit and multiple ppl die, then yes its his fault
sonic river
how much explosive do i need to put in the mine to still go to heaven
sonic river
oh cool, just wanted to know
rough sapphire
intent of people in general + god because why not
@mint lichen man, r u even Christian
mint lichen
no, I'm an atheist
rough sapphire
God specifically said in the Bible that good or bad didnt exist in the beginnings, but Adam and Eve ate the apple which created evil
sonic river
i think you're the only believer in that discussion
rough sapphire
the intent of the apple wasnt the thing that made it evil, but the humans who ate it made it evil
sonic river
at least that's what i took away from the previous comments
rough sapphire
God said dont eat it
and they did
it couldnt have been evil if evil wasnt even created LOL
sonic river
and god didn't say "don't make a button that nukes a country"
mint lichen
^
sonic river
but he did say "don't press that button"
rough sapphire
and god didn't say "don't make a button that nukes a country"
@sonic river thats MAKING it not PRESSING it
God MADE the apple and said "dont eat it" and humans ate it
if god made the apple then he is evil
equivelant to humans AMDE the button and God said dont press it and humans did
if god made the apple then he is evil
@rough sapphire no, the apple couldnt have been evil if EVIL ITSELF DIDNT EXIST
He knew that the apple had power to create evil and created it anyways
are u legit drunk?
mint lichen
ok, let's try another perspective. say that an automatic missile detection system detects incoming missiles from say, russia, and in response fires a nuclear missile at russia. who's fault is that?
sonic river
you're the one that takes a book as absolute truth, it's kinda hard to follow
rough sapphire
evil didnt exist
sonic river
why didn't it
rough sapphire
Isn't it a problem?
evil wasnt an intent, it wasnt bad, bad and good didnt exist like dude wtf
if evil didn't exist, why eating the apple created it?
how can something be EVIL if the word, meaning, intent, everything else DIDNT exist
sonic river
there's no point in saying "dude wtf" as if it was obvious
rough sapphire
i don't know about religion, sorry
mint lichen
so they just did it because they happened to want to. then they automatically became evil because of that
rough sapphire
and it was also said by GOD that EVIL didnt exist until Adam and Eve ate the apple
If eva and adam didn't knew the consequences of eating the apple, then they weren't evil, right?
ok, let's try another perspective. say that an automatic missile detection system detects incoming missiles from say, russia, and in response fires a nuclear missile at russia. who's fault is that?
@mint lichen both, russia shouldnt have shot the missile and the other ones shouldnt have responded back with a missile
i don't know about religion, sorry
@rough sapphire then dont come here
Because you're just evil if you do something with intent to hurt
@rough sapphire that means that i can do anything but then it would be satans fault bc he tempted me to do it
it's an off-topic, i come here if i want
dude, dont talk to me about evil if u arent religious wtf @rough sapphire
ok, then answer me
sonic river
you're the only religious person here
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire that means that i can do anything but then it would be satans fault bc he tempted me to do it
@rough sapphire no, tempting isnt acting
sonic river
you've been talking to non-religious people for like 30 min
rough sapphire
ok lemme give u an example
mint lichen
good... but now, say russia DIDN'T shoot a missile, but it was a problem in the detection system. and it automatically fired a missile back, asking no humans in the process. who is at fault?
sonic river
outrageous, i know
rough sapphire
you're in a fucking programmer server bro, there are lots of atheists here
didnt you say earlier if someone tells you to do something and you do it
its their fault
not the guy that did it
you've been talking to non-religious people for like 30 min
@sonic river then why are y'all even fucking arguing with me if ure not religious and i am so i have a different story and will stick to it cuz religion doesnt change
im just done, cya lol
sonic river
i'm interested in your point of view
rough sapphire
you didnt
mint lichen
^^
rough sapphire
anser my question
sonic river
which i heavily disagree with, that's all
rough sapphire
i'm interested in your point of view
@sonic river if ure interested then dont argue with me
just listen and shut up
mint lichen
mine too please
sonic river
i'm challenging your pov, it's a discussion, isn't it
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire didnt you say earlier if someone tells you to do something and you do it
sonic river
i don't need a theology class
i have enough dogmatic opinions with programming itself
shouldn't it be the guy that loaded it with a missile that is at cause
or maybe it should have been a plane passing by that should have moved into the missile to avoid 10s of thousands ppl dying
mint lichen
and now say it wasn't a bug in the system but a ray of sunlight was refracted at just the right angle in just the right way that it couldn't be distinguished from a missile whatsoever. who's at fault now?
rough sapphire
if the intent wasn't evil, then the person that caused the problem is evil anyways? is that what you're saying?
sonic river
if you walk into a landmine in a city, killing many people, even if you didn't even know it was there, you are evil @rough sapphire
rough sapphire
bro isnt that liek the opposite of that religion (im not christian so idk)
of what bruce said
why?
mint lichen
that basically means that you have no choice between good and evil and how 'good' you are is left entirely to chance..
mortal ferry
!warn 602824974792917002 don't use the r-word on this server
royal lakeBOT
:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @rough sapphire.
young shoal
the one's who programmed that retarded automatic shit, they shouldve properly debugged before releasing the automatic system
@rough sapphire and they can debug easier if it doesn't have global variables
rough sapphire
no im saying your point is correct bruce
mortal ferry
!shhhhh
royal lakeBOT
β silenced current channel for 10 minute(s).
mortal ferry
This conversation has become pretty explosive
I suggest we direct it someplace else
!unshhh
royal lakeBOT
β unsilenced current channel.
rough sapphire
i need to study anyways
sonic river
someplace as in not this discord server i presume ?
rough sapphire
bye
mint lichen
π¦
mortal ferry
I meant the topic of the conversation
sonic river
ah right, that's fair anyway
rough sapphire
uh, is it against the rules or what
mint lichen
well, it is 00:30 so I should probably go to sleep anyways
rough sapphire
lol its 2:27 here
sonic river
controversial topics like religion always bring chaos
mortal ferry
Yes, it's in our code of conduct @rough sapphire
rough sapphire
huh
young shoal
remember when i said religion wasn't a banned topic, as long as it was civil
sonic river
i'd say it never stays civil for too long anyway, but i'm actually impressed it didn't blew up as much as i thought it would
rough sapphire
i cant see anything directed to religion itself 
@mortal ferry
i can't see why the discussion coudn't be considered civil, but whatever
young shoal
remember when i said religion wasn't a banned topic, as long as it was civil
rough sapphire
well eroc you knid of made it religious
i'd say it never stays civil for too long anyway, but i'm actually impressed it didn't blew up as much as i thought it would
@sonic river tbh if people would actually just stfu for once and listen to each other, society wouldnt blow up at all
young shoal
guys, drop it, we're moving on to something else
sonic river
a discussion is not about one side "stfu-ing" and the other lecturing them
rough sapphire
well eroc you knid of made it religious
@rough sapphire but it doesnt say anything in the code of conduct saying religion isnt tolerated
mortal ferry
"Discussing topics that are overly polarizing, sensitive, or incite arguments". Not religion specifically, but I include this here
sonic river
it's about back-and-forth arguments, reasoning etc
rough sapphire
a discussion is not about one side "stfu-ing" and the other lecturing them
@sonic river it is, one person listens and the other talks, then when he finishes, its vice versa
its a nice, civil conversation
we dont all just speak on top of each other like monkeys
@rough sapphire hu?
not really civil
young shoal
.topic
median domeBOT
rough sapphire
rice
mint lichen
pineapple on pizza
rough sapphire
tomato pasta
mint lichen
now we can break the code of conduct again with heated debate π
rough sapphire
ok but im still confused @mortal ferry i dont see anything being directly directed to religion in the code of conduct correct me if im blind
dude
mint lichen
π€¦ββοΈ
sonic river
"Discussing topics that are overly polarizing, sensitive, or incite arguments". Not religion specifically, but I include this here
mortal ferry
I just said what I'm referring to. Drop the subject.
rough sapphire
.topic
median domeBOT
rough sapphire
black
young shoal
fuchsia
manic bloom
#333
mint lichen
256-0-0
young shoal
i think
sonic river
depends
young shoal
wait 256 is too big
sonic river
also should be 255 but i'm memeing
young shoal
yeah
mint lichen
lol
rough sapphire
anyone up for some among us
young shoal
aren't you supposed to be sleeping lol
rough sapphire
my friend jsut asked the something lol
young shoal
thought it was 1 am like an hour ago for you?
rough sapphire
school is overrated
thought it was 1 am like an hour ago for you?
@young shoal yeah, who said i have to sleep lol
young shoal
you
rough sapphire
sleep is underated
no, i said im tired and i dont wanna continue the discussion cuz it was tiring
rough sapphire
no lol
im bored ngl
you need to sign contract
sleeping is boring unless im sleepy af
bruh
how is sleep boring
rough sapphire
trying to sleep is boring
im guessing what you are trying to say
how is sleep boring
@rough sapphire u know when u like just have thoughts in yo brain and cant sleep for 30 min straight
thats what i mean lol
mint lichen
30 min? try 2 hours
rough sapphire
yeah thats what i was trying to say
30 min? try 2 hours
@mint lichen bruh wtf
u hav a fucked up brain then lol
how about try 5 hours
mint lichen
pretty much, i keep thinking about how to make singularity AI while going to sleep
mint lichen
so far haven't gotten anywhere... i'll notify you in time for takeover π
calm dawn
.topic
median domeBOT
calm dawn
.topic
median domeBOT
calm dawn
.topic
median domeBOT
manic bloom
DARK
sand goblet
I like all of them
Although ruby chocolate exists and is super weird
It's kind of fruity
young shoal
intresting
sand goblet
To be clear ruby chocolate is made by doing all the things you don't do when you usually make chocolate
It's basically unripe chocolate
quick bay
fruity chocolates are good
plucky ridge
I return with a chocolate malt
rough sapphire
Milk is better idk why everytime I eat dark choclate my stomachs starts hurting
sand goblet
It's not a chocolate with fruit in it
young shoal
bruh hemlock
sand goblet
It's a deep pink chocolate that is itself fruity with nothing added
rough sapphire
Interesting
sand goblet
It's worth trying at least once
rough sapphire
I finally solved this son of a bitch it took way to much of my valuable time lol
rough sapphire
Ooo
quick bay
how much logic must go into telling a computer to solve one
sour forge
forbidden Toblerone
honest star
ooooh I want to try that
young shoal
not a lot tbh
rough sapphire
^^^
sand goblet
Technically speaking this is basically white chocolate that is far less processed and has a little citric acid added
Basically cocoa pods are a reddish purple, that colour is lost during fermentation and so that's how the usual chocolate colour comes about
The ruby stuff isn't fermented
quick bay
you know a lot about this chocolate which you dont like
sand goblet
I do like it
quaint rivet
I'm not a fan of ruby, I kinda prefer Python tbh
honest star
Question for y'all, what hosting provider do y'all recommend? Is linode worth checking out or should I be looking elsewhere?
manic bloom
what do you want to host??
honest star
Looking to host a simple website with some options for hosting things like tf2 servers
manic bloom
hmmm idk, but i've heard heroku is good
quaint rivet
heroku dynos sleep after 30 minutes inactivity
manic bloom
uptimerobot
manic bloom
hmm
young shoal
π host a tf2 server?
quaint rivet
team fortress 2?
rough sapphire
tf2 as in team fotress 2?
honest star
mhm~
young shoal
π
young shoal
saxton hale is a hottie
honest star
also prophunt and dodgeball is best
young shoal
ooh dodgeball, haven't played in a while
sand goblet
I've got a 64 gig dedi that I pay around 45 euro/mo for
honest star
I don't think I'll need anything that big
but it's on my list to check out!
I also need to find my own personal and better hosting provider that isn't bluehost
timid blaze
why did everyone leave #ot0-psvmβs-eternal-disapproval
eternal wing
because blurple is not a color
rough sapphire
take that back rn
edgy crest
when i say blurple i get the feeling of burp
ivory parcel
Any Van Halen fans here?
eternal wing
I cant say I was a big fan, but as a musician I appreciate the band
so RIP
also do not spam every channel plz lol
@ivory parcel
terse sluice
yeah, you can just stick to one channel
simple sand
I have noticed that the server is not active att this time
cosmic lotus
Most members are probably from areas where its night time right now
eternal wing
Im very active I'll have you know
eternal wing
no, thats xithrius. He is the bot the server is hosted on
simple sand
lol
edgy crest
xithrius was the first staff member i got help from lul
fathom cobalt
what is the 'standard' around pdf source/author verification? like giving a GPG signature to a PDF? I'd like to have my server-side generated pdf files to be able to be verified by users uploading the file to a page.
rough sapphire
I was curious so I looked. Found this https://superuser.com/questions/653231/embed-a-gpg-signature-in-a-pdf-file The link in the thread to an Adobe doc is dead.
It looks like I might have been extremely late to replying to that last message lol
inland wolf
hm
lunar shore
TS for automation instead of Python ???
inland wolf
perhaps
rough sapphire
http://beefykenny.pythonanywhere.com/ watcha guys think about my website
quaint rivet
try posting in #web-development
last mantle
quaint rivet
what do you think, would this change help you avoid chrome during development and doing everything inside vscode itself?
inland wolf
lol
lofty dirge
Iβm sure some JS/TS devs might be happier
deep fjord
hello i see someone summoned a JS/TS dev
vapid kernel
what's the difference between neovim and regular vim
solid pollen
neovim is a fork of vim, I think that's about it haha
vapid kernel
ok thanks
solid pollen
neovim has an async support for plugins apparently
graceful basin
vim does too afaik in some recent version
sonic river
Neovim is initially an attempt at cleaning up the vim codebase, which was/is a mess and it's author is a dictator
vapid kernel
so would you prefer vim over neovim?
sonic river
They created a bunch of stuff to make it much more modular, made their own server mode, made their own terminal emulator and a bunch of stuff
I wouldn't but I don't use vim
graceful basin
neovim is afaik still better
sonic river
Vterm is fabulous tho
vapid kernel
isn't that an emacs thing tho?
vapid kernel
o ok
sonic river
It's a library, so it can be used by anything that binds with c
sonic river
And one of the main selling point of nvim is that you don't have to use shitty VimL or shitty bindings to do configuration
There's a first class lua api
vapid kernel
what's so bad about vim script
graceful basin
its not elisp
vapid kernel
for what
sonic river
VimL is just all over the place, it's super bare but at the same time it has a bunch of magic, strings get evaluated, code gets duplicated everywhere,...
vapid kernel
it's not bad tbh
sonic river
It's like having Perl with the built-in of C
It's realistically enough for simple declarative configs, but package maintainers are having a hell of a life, idk how tpope does it
Oh and the VimL community is non existent proportionally to vim's user base
vapid kernel
so vterm has a lua api?
sonic river
I don't think so, but it's a static library written in C, it shouldn't be hard to make a small wrapper
vapid kernel
you use vterm right?
sonic river
In emacs yes
vapid kernel
ok
simple sand
What do yall think about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y8Ppin12r4&ab_channel=KalleHallden
lone verge
vapid kernel
the video seems useful
sonic river
I have an aversion for yt videos, these days I kept getting asked whether <some random 24 hours long video about becoming a python expert> is good
Everyone is jumping on the occasion, and it's ruining beginners' experiences
Both in terms of learning and motivation
vapid kernel
i prefer videos than books actually
im more of a visual person
and learning by example
simple sand
really, I find vids boring, cause all it is one person blabbering about something
vapid kernel
that's why im pretty bad at sightreading
some videos are good tho
there is this 9 hour c++ tutorial
i liked it
simple sand
and I can't type fast rn cause my mom is sleeping and my keyboard is so loud, but ye that kalle hadden vid might be useful
u have a command which does everything for you
vapid kernel
yea I thought you had to write those in bash
i didn't know you could write universal commands in python
simple sand
what is a universal command?
vapid kernel
something that can be ran anywhere
simple sand
@vapid kernel are u a brother of @narrow pecan
narrow pecan
No
vapid kernel
lol no, I just changed my name
narrow pecan
Ahha ok
vapid kernel
ok
quick ledge
I am, however, vestergurkans dad
vapid kernel
then change your name to north cucumber in swedish
quick ledge
Are ya winning son?
vapid kernel
Norrgurkan
quick ledge
hmm
narrow pecan
We do have @valk.#5741 and @FarmArt#1531 with Vest as their names as well ahaha
(FarmArt has a very obscure reference, though)
vapid kernel
mr. gurkan lol
narrow pecan
I can confirm that @quick ledge is indeed my father
vapid kernel
ok then
quick ledge
Yes, I can confirm his confirmation
vapid kernel
#gurkangang
simple sand
Lmao
narrow pecan
Yes. I can confirm his confirmation of my confirmation
quick ledge
lmao
vapid kernel
yoda gurkan hmmm
vapid kernel
lol
narrow pecan
So mr gurkan ΓΆst, how was it to be in a team with fisher?
vapid kernel
nice
narrow pecan
Though we sadly didnβt quite finish
vapid kernel
oof
narrow pecan
Really enjoyable experience, though
simple sand
u didn't finish the project at all?
vapid kernel
they probably completed some
ill miss this color role
but im fine with the new pink one
atomic gazelle
yeth, speed by.
narrow pecan
but im fine with the new pink one
@vapid kernel pfffftttt
vapid kernel
what
narrow pecan
And yeah, we completed a loooot of it, but didnβt quite tie it all together
vapid kernel
lol
quaint rivet
π
vapid kernel
lol
eternal wing
he deployed with docker and redis
And then fire tore me a new one for my docs and deploy LOL
eternal wing
I still need to host the site, maybe I'll do that today
quick ledge
good luck
vapid kernel
gurkangang
quaint rivet
which party
golden girder
black metal ist krieg
honest star
gah, which distro should I choose for a VPS?
spark idol
i personally for a VPS would go for fedora server as i can't afford RHEL
but instead of VPS
I'd rather have my own server
because screw the cloud, i'm stacking 8TB hard drives
terse sluice
i have ubuntu
but yeah, either ubuntu or debian
but i also donβt typically use a vps
i use my own server
honest star
A physical one in like your closet or just a hosted dedicated one?
young shoal
how much did that cost
honest star
does your ISP like that?
terse sluice
i donβt think my ISP cares at all
verizon
and i got a steal deal off of ebay
8 cores, 3.6 ghz cpu
16gb ram and the rest of the PC except for storage
it was about $50 usd
terse sluice
lmao shipping was like $30 but whatever
tranquil orchid
Thats so worth
terse sluice
yeah
tranquil orchid
How did they even profit off of that
terse sluice
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
it works great and the case looks almost new
literally the deal of my lifetime so far
lol
terse sluice
nginx with a bunch of sites like my portfolio, plex, bitwarden, etc.
also a discord bot and sometimes minecraft servers
manic bloom
the best way to test is to test in production
honest star
how hard was it to set up nginx?
honest star
My home auto stuff I'm paranoid enough about to run a local pi with limited to no internet connection
terse sluice
so basically a homelab
@quaint rivet r/homelab
terse sluice
iβm lucky to have an amazing internet connection
quaint rivet
i kinda lurk π
terse sluice
no, not really, but i visit it sometimes with envy lol
quaint rivet
yes envy, felt that
manic bloom
I can imagine someone going to your house:
Is this door for the restroom?
No, it's where I keep my server, the restroom is next to that
terse sluice
lol
honest star
my friend used to host a MC server for a gaming group he founded. Hated it so much because of the resources it took up and sometimes just kicked it to spite it.
terse sluice
it takes a tonnn of resources
the server keeps up quite well though
iβve had about 15 players max and itβs alright
something that REALLY takes resources though is plex
vapid kernel
what is r/homelab?
quaint rivet
it is heaven
vapid kernel
i see
terse sluice
streaming really high res movies/tv shows is killer
quaint rivet
frozen thorn
on reddit I think subreddit
terse sluice
let me get some stats
terse sluice
quaint rivet
damn
timid blaze
how do I look at mine ;-;
timid blaze
π€¦ββοΈ I watched that movie like 10 times and I hate it now
terse sluice
killer on network and cpu
timid blaze
@timid blaze lol it's not user stats
@quaint rivet I know ;-;
Realised that when I saw cpu uusage
quaint rivet
okay
π
fire what else do u host
also, never run Plex server on computer, noted
terse sluice
most of it is here https://status.f1recloud.com/
tranquil orchid
graphs π
terse sluice
yee, statping is cool
quaint rivet
nice, I thought graphing and monitoring tools were supposed to be heavy
this is neat :D
terse sluice
this is lightweight because it just pings the given addresses lol
terse sluice
example failure
quaint rivet
I mean yea the name tells that "ping"
terse sluice
lul
bleak lintel
we should do this with pydis
quaint rivet
lol
quaint rivet
yeah notifiers would be cool, but I believe you might already have those for Pydis?
terse sluice
we don't
unless for example, the site goes down, and bot starts spitting out errors, we get notifications for that lol
since @royal lake relies on our site API
quaint rivet
lol yeah I can imagine, tons of notifications on different services
terse sluice
quite resource heavy, but nice
quaint rivet
email, SMS, Discord, slack brr
terse sluice
lol
cgroup caps similar to snekbox?
the amount of requests i get from my status page is kinda funny
most of those requests are from statping
quaint rivet
wow u have got a lot of visitors
terse sluice
yeah totally, check out the requests vs visitors
quaint rivet
that's statping too?
terse sluice
nah, cloudflare
quaint rivet
maybe they are sus of u
quaint rivet
why do u have a public page for this tho
terse sluice
there's no public page for that info lol
quaint rivet
no i mean the statping
terse sluice
oh, i mean, why not?
i don't see a reason to make it private
it's just more work
i do have a few private services on statping though
terse sluice
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
quaint rivet
terse sluice
π
terse sluice
of course, there's a whole dashboard
i can change settings, add/remove services, create announcements, check logs, etc.
quaint rivet
ah right
terse sluice
and also see the private services, of course
there's even an API https://status.f1recloud.com/api
that's what the mobile app uses
quaint rivet
it won't open in my app tho
terse sluice
it doesn't?