there isn't even a definition
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
sonic river
topaz aurora
But yeah it does abstract a lot
scenic blaze
@plucky ridge I had a prof who actually had to do that 😄
sand goblet
people that call C high level live in a different world from the rest of us, which is why it's not a useful comparison
sonic river
like, you can use malloc from haskell
rough sapphire
So why not go as low as you can go
@scenic blaze thats not how it works
unless you are directly controlling the CPU with a magnetic needle and a steady hand you ain't a real low level programmer
plucky ridge
My condolences
sonic river
does that make it low level
sand goblet
it's all relative
rough sapphire
i dont program in java for the sake of low level
if i did that, i would be using asm
topaz aurora
like, you can use malloc from haskell
@sonic river Please don't do that
plucky ridge
@rough sapphire I could never do that. My hands shake like a nervous chihuahua
sonic river
I'm sorry
graceful basin
I like java because it keeps my code quite clean
sand goblet
it does, but it's a lot more verbose than it could be
plucky ridge
That's honestly my biggest gripe about Java
rough sapphire
The problem with java is the class names lol
graceful basin
eh, I have autocomplete, not really an inconvenience for me
plucky ridge
There's just SO MUCH boilerplate
topaz aurora
accursedUnutterablePerformIO all the way
rough sapphire
they are too long
sand goblet
There is
sonic river
it's ok, within the next or 2 decades, kotlin will have taken over completely
then we can revive Eta
sand goblet
what's annoying is that some java projects rely on things that are very picky about how things are defined
rough sapphire
if a language is strongly typing (idk how you say it, english isnt my first language), it will probably be lower level than python and js
sonic river
@rough sapphire not really, no
topaz aurora
Haskell has static typing and is still high-level
sonic river
the type system does not necessarily map to low/high abstractions
plucky ridge
@rough sapphire Not the case at all. Typing doesn't dictate the abstraction level
tardy wind
strong or weak typing has nothing to do with abstraction level
rough sapphire
have you seen a really high level language with non strong typing
shell raptor
@rough sapphire Haskell is very high-level, and it's the strongest type system among mainstream languages
plucky ridge
You can see how obsessed we are with coding in general, not just Python
sand goblet
PHP @rough sapphire
sonic river
I mean, python
rough sapphire
python?
sand goblet
python has strong typing
sonic river
(if you mean strong as in static)
rough sapphire
are you serious?
tardy wind
python is strongly typed
plucky ridge
Python is strongly typed, just not statically typed
sonic river
He said he wasn't sure abouth the strong terminology
topaz aurora
LISP has no type system right?
sonic river
So I assumed he meant static
graceful basin
LISP has an amazing type system
topaz aurora
Ah
graceful basin
so amazing, you cannot enforce it
sonic river
LISP is dynamic
graceful basin
so a type hint is UB
sonic river
In every possible sense
graceful basin
literally
rough sapphire
i think lisp is an esoteric language (i hope at least)
sand goblet
well, kotlin is statically typed
sonic river
it's really not
plucky ridge
Very not the case
sand goblet
and it's very high level
graceful basin
its very much not
topaz aurora
(((Not really)))
tardy wind
lisp is very much not esoteric at all
graceful basin
it is a general purpose language like python and kotlin and whatever else
tardy wind
well, kotlin is statically typed
as is swift
plucky ridge
You don't see LISP as the core language itself, but there are dozens out there that are part of its family
sonic river
as is <insert 174 languages>
sand goblet
haven't used swift
graceful basin
just well, superior to all of them by the virtue of some random LISPer saying so
topaz aurora
It's just that expressing code as expressions is a bit off-putting
plucky ridge
@topaz aurora I won't be happy until I can express code as analogies
tardy wind
prolog
rough sapphire
its getting hard for me to talk to several people at once
graceful basin
prolog is interesting
tardy wind
thats one word for it
plucky ridge
That one hasn't crossed my path
scenic blaze
I want to express code as finger paintings
rough sapphire
and i think that i can never prove my point given how little i wrote in python but how bad coding in python felt
tardy wind
im not a fan
graceful basin
it is extremely powerful in the narrow subset of problems it deals with well
sonic river
hindley milner in prolog is like 20 lines of code and i love it
graceful basin
I would honestly suggest against it though
tardy wind
perhaps you should actually learn python THEN comment on it @rough sapphire
plucky ridge
@rough sapphire And you're completely right to feel the way you did when coding it. Your experience is no less valid.
My main point was just that it deserves a second chance
undone berry
one day you'll be able to design a website interface by vaguely waffling on about the design you have in your head but can't get on paper
plucky ridge
Just like any other language
scenic blaze
@rough sapphire Out of curiosity, ever coded in C or ASM?
graceful basin
it is extremely fascinating and pretty unique, but unless you doing type stuff, there is probably no point
rough sapphire
no, why
undone berry
"it's like blue, but there's a rectangle and a pint glass"
sonic river
https://github.com/bertas/hm_prolog/blob/master/src/type.pl this guy did it in ~45
tardy wind
scenic blaze
Just curious. Python is relatively painless compared to other programming languages.
tardy wind
once again this is relevant
topaz aurora
@rough sapphire I've coded only a little bit of C++ and I hate it with a burning passion, but I've learnt to accept it the way it is and I'm giving it a second shot.
sonic river
depends on the size of the codebase you're working on @scenic blaze
scenic blaze
Coding in C and ASM is a much harder transition
rough sapphire
perhaps you should actually learn python THEN comment on it @rough sapphire
@tardy wind well do i have to go into the most subtle details about everything in the language?
plucky ridge
@rough sapphire And there's nothing to say that you HAVE to fall in love with it. You work with the languages that you want to for the tasks you want to.
And that's 10000% fine
scenic blaze
@sonic river Sure, but trying to build off of an old obfuscated C database makes me want to slit my wrists
tardy wind
no but a good understanding of it is a pre req to actually fairly judging it
plucky ridge
We're different people with different needs and different jobs
sonic river
understandable
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire I've coded only a little bit of C++ and I hate it with a burning passion, but I've learnt to accept it the way it is and I'm giving it a second shot.
@topaz aurora i also tried c++ and i didnt really like it
scenic blaze
and I consider C one of my strongest languages
sonic river
french
rough sapphire
yes
tardy wind
oof java
rough sapphire
they are mentioned
graceful basin
C is one of the few languages I do not quite like, and even that only applies in larger projects.
tardy wind
java was not fun for me to write
topaz aurora
UTF-8 in C is something I'll never want to touch
tardy wind
checked exceptions bothered tf out of me, but its not THAT bad theres just better
rough sapphire
c++ is the best when you hit them with the good ol' reinterpret_cast<void**>()
without c you wouldnt have python
scenic blaze
I'm sure people will disagree, but I consider Java to be like.. a bridge between C and Python
rough sapphire
nor would you have js
tardy wind
I'm sure people will disagree, but I consider Java to be like.. a bridge between C and Python
not really
java is on the same level as python
rough sapphire
isn't java running in a VM?
tardy wind
so is python
rough sapphire
no python is more low level
tardy wind
no its not
topaz aurora
...
scenic blaze
Lol
rough sapphire
i mean
sonic river
how is python higher or lower level than java
plucky ridge
@rough sapphire True, but without bees I wouldn't have honey, but I'm friggin' terrified of bees. I can appreciate what they create without liking the thing itself
scenic blaze
Python is more high level than java
rough sapphire
python is more high level
rough sapphire
so
scenic blaze
Well, Java runs faster
tardy wind
thats different
sonic river
why does speed matter
tardy wind
they are BOTH compiled to bytecode
scenic blaze
Because I love my premature optimization, okay?!
rough sapphire
well would you rather use a slow or a fast language?
sonic river
low/high level is supposed to be at the level of abstraction you have available when you develop programs
scenic blaze
I'd rather use a clearly readable language, tbh
sand goblet
the JVM and Python VM are pretty similar tbh
rough sapphire
but isnt python interpretated
tardy wind
its messy
topaz aurora
well would you rather use a slow or a fast language?
@rough sapphire Depending whether one helps me write code faster
tardy wind
but kinda
plucky ridge
Because I love my premature optimization, okay?!
@scenic blaze My condolences to your significant other
sand goblet
Both languages compile to a bytecode which is later interpreted
tardy wind
java and python are WAY more similar then alot of people realize
scenic blaze
😄
tardy wind
id say pythons byte code is interpreted while javas is jitted
rough sapphire
java compiles to jar and python just compiles to byte code and immediately runs
tardy wind
thats probbaly the key distinction
scenic blaze
Java and python have a lot of similarities, they're strongest points are readability, imo
sand goblet
java does use a JIT, yeah
scenic blaze
Their*
topaz aurora
The JAR is bytecode isn't it?
sonic river
not every jvm bytecode is jitted
tardy wind
java compiles to jar and python just compiles to byte code and immediately runs
you can run .java files in the same way you run .py
rough sapphire
yes jar is bytecode
tardy wind
it will output the .jar on the fly
scenic blaze
If someone has programming experience, they can generally read java/python code and understand what is happening
tardy wind
so thats really no difference
scenic blaze
I challenge you to do the same with bitwise shifts and bitmasks in C
sand goblet
jar files are just zips containing .class files
scenic blaze
Or god forbid, bitfields
rough sapphire
But nothing can beat java class names, reminder that InternalFrameInternalFrameTitlePaneInternalFrameTitlePane MaximizeButtonWindowNotFocusedState is a real class
you can run .java files in the same way you run .py
but there is no option to make a .pyt file or something that would work like .jar (except with its own bytecode obviously)
graceful basin
99% of classes you work with have nice names
topaz aurora
Python just includes the "compile" process and "run" process together since you don't really distribute .pyc files
tardy wind
basically what im saying is that python and java are both very similar, the main difference is in the way the byte code is run imo
rough sapphire
C# is just microsoft java in terms of style
sand goblet
digsby is the biggest example I can think of if you want an app that distributes pyc files
graceful basin
and well, so what, I have autocomplete
plucky ridge
@rough sapphire True enough
tardy wind
c# is java + a ton of extra cool shit
scenic blaze
Another thing that does annoy me in Python is running into things like "import datetime from datetime"
topaz aurora
LINQ is a blessing
sonic river
the stdlib is a mess
plucky ridge
@scenic blaze That's not too terribly uncommon, though
topaz aurora
F# is a blessing
tardy wind
.net is anything but a mess
rough sapphire
i realized my mistake but i still dont like python
tardy wind
thats fair
sonic river
I'm talking about python's stdlib
tardy wind
but idk how you can like js and not like python lol
plucky ridge
Yeah, we're not trying to convert you to Python
scenic blaze
You don't have to like python
tardy wind
that doesnt make anysense
topaz aurora
You're entitled to your own opinion yeah
rough sapphire
honestly .net is a both a curse and a blessing. It supports a ton of shit but there is a million and two ways to do everything
plucky ridge
Just showing you that it's always good to examine WHY you might not like something
graceful basin
ye, the python stdlib is full of bad naming that is only kept for legacy support
plucky ridge
@rough sapphire That was my beef with it. There's just SO much
rough sapphire
the last thing i wanted to mention is my friend who used to use python told me async in python is broken, i cant judge though, because i never really used async in python
topaz aurora
getLogger smh
scenic blaze
Just use a singleton class
plucky ridge
@rough sapphire Depends on what they mean by broken. It works quite well
sonic river
I wish they would wipe everything, start python4, remove every relics that are from the 20th century and stop trying so hard to keep backward compat
topaz aurora
How about
tardy wind
the last thing i wanted to mention is my friend who used to use python told me async in python is broken, i cant judge though, because i never really used async in python
its not
plucky ridge
@sonic river Eh? Like what?
sonic river
Like 80% of the stdlib
scenic blaze
Probably your friend tried to use something without knowing how it worked
topaz aurora
A statically typed Python superset
tardy wind
should be from datetime import Datetime
plucky ridge
Okay, THAT makes sense
rough sapphire
and stop trying so hard to keep backward compat
windows: ._.
scenic blaze
Collections module is nice
plucky ridge
Sure but is it worth scrapping the whole thing just to fix naming conventions?
scenic blaze
For giving me classic datastructures
topaz aurora
Does the Python stdlib fully adhere to PEP 8?
rough sapphire
ok my friend says that you have to import async and cant use an async function without await
plucky ridge
HA
sonic river
no
scenic blaze
@rough sapphire How does that make it broken out of curiosity
plucky ridge
@rough sapphire Well that's accurate, although you don't have to import asyncio specifically
sand goblet
nope
graceful basin
yes, that is how async works. you cannot suspend evaluation unless you are in a context where you know what you suspending to
plucky ridge
await makes it clear what lines are going to be async and which ones aren't
sonic river
Tbh if it was me, I'd enforce type hints and add proper type inference in the language 🙃
sand goblet
I can't think of many language that have completely implicit async
plucky ridge
I'm all for clarity
sand goblet
kotlin kind of does actually
rough sapphire
@scenic blaze not saying it is, i cant judge about async in python, ask all questions to my friend
shell raptor
@sonic river that'd be a completely different language, like... C#
sand goblet
although you still need to at least launch it from a coroutine context
rough sapphire
kotlin is a mess imo
tardy wind
i want py#
sonic river
I'd be fine with that, I just want the python ecosystem
I don't care about the language
graceful basin
async def f():
await "wait for this to finish and do something else in the meantime"
print('done')
```unless f is async, it cannot know what else it should do in the meantimeso the await is meaningless
sand goblet
@tardy wind ironpython
scenic blaze
Claiming something is broken when it works is different than saying something is broken when it literally does not run
tardy wind
no thats python that targets .net
sand goblet
and C# is java that targets .net
sand goblet
:>
graceful basin
I mean, haskell can somewhat do implicit async
scenic blaze
Python's ecosystem is its biggest selling point for me
plucky ridge
@tardy wind Imports miles long!
sonic river
it is for most people really
scenic blaze
seaborn best module for making heatmaps? y/n?
plucky ridge
@scenic blaze Same. The fact that so much of the grunt work is done really makes it an interesting thing to tinker around with
sand goblet
agree, ecosystem is a big deal
I miss a lot of stuff I had at my fingertips when I use other languages
tardy wind
import DataAnalysisBaseServiceFactorySqlRepository as d```Battle tested, well supported, easy to interate
undone berry
seaborn best module for making heatmaps? y/n?
for geospatial stuff?
rough sapphire
ok, i heard from more professional pythoners than my friends about why they use python now
goodbye
scenic blaze
@undone berry transcranial, actually
plucky ridge
@quartz saddle Have a good day!
undone berry
i'm not sure for that - I think for geospatial, there are better libs
plucky ridge
@tardy wind I will not rest until my import lines break the 80 character mark!
scenic blaze
Sometimes I'll do
from mylib import funca, funcb, funcc, funcd, funce ... funcz
what I have started doing in some cases is use a * import and have autoflake fix it for me once I am done and actually know what I want the result to look like
sonic river
that's actually smart
tardy wind
corporate code you need an ultrawide just to look at wtf the file uses LOL
rough sapphire
tardy wind
that was a pretty tame one tbh lol
but we were in c# so the long ass type names were duplicated
scenic blaze
from * import * as a
tardy wind
public DataAnalysisBaseServiceFactorySqlRepository<t1,t1> SomeName = new DataAnalysisBaseServiceFactorySqlRepository<t1,t1>();
it got bad fast
thankfully in c# 9 target typed new is coming
topaz aurora
from * import * as a
@scenic blaze No, just, no
scenic blaze
😄
graceful basin
can't you use var or is that not a C# thing
tardy wind
public DataAnalysisBaseServiceFactorySqlRepository<t1,t1> SomeName {get; set;}= new();
not for class members
only for locals
round rose
And here I was, thinking that Dictionary<string, SomeRelativelyShortClassName> items = new Dictionary<string, SomeRelativelyShortClassName>() {...} was tiresome
tardy wind
tbf that also is tiresome
scenic blaze
tbf life is tiresome
round rose
You need to drop The Horny™
or maybe it has a different meaning and it's me who has the horny
not gonna google this one though
quick ledge
I meant threesome as in when three people go to a picnic together
And they will dine on some good food
Maybe watch a movie
round rose
That sounds wholesome
sand goblet
sounds suspicious
quick ledge
Then they will book a hotel room and do the hanky panky
round rose
There it is
quick ledge
And upload it to ph
round rose
tbh I'd rather pick the picnic than what you get when googling threesome
quick ledge
Beggers can't be choosers
round rose
:(
scenic blaze
Should I google threesome picnics
round rose
no
plucky ridge
@scenic blaze Picnic Hub?
scenic blaze
That's exactly what I was referring to, thank you @plucky ridge
round rose
that's right
plucky ridge
Does it show you where the closest tables are?
quick ledge
Wait, threesome picnic is a category on ph?
plucky ridge
As well as best places to lay down a large plaid cloth?
Okay I shouldn't be playing along, this isn't really server appropriate
quick ledge
Single tables near you
plucky ridge
HA
scenic blaze
(All of them reserved)
round rose
"HOT unoccupied picnic spots in your area!"
sand goblet
okay that was clever
scenic blaze
How obvious is it to my bosses that I'm only throwing on a dress shirt for the sake of these zoom calls
and that I'm wearing pajama bottoms
round rose
depends on how much your camera is showing
scenic blaze
Is there a difference between cubic interpolation and spline interpolation?
sand goblet
well they are different names
scenic blaze
I have a whiteboard behind me to look professional and hide my messy room. It's one of the best purchases of my life.
round rose
You can also write smart words on it
scenic blaze
Mmhmm
quick ledge
sHE beLIEved
scenic blaze
I spoke briefly with the company president when we were waiting on other people for a meeting. He said that it doesn't matter what kind of bullshit is written on it, whenever he sees a whiteboard he knows something important is happening.
round rose
Wasn't there a book dedicated specifically to graphs and words and techniques that make you appear smarter than you actually are
with the cliche graphs and whatnot
I'm gonna try to find it
quick ledge
Yo write the names of people who have gone missing recently on the whiteboard along with some made up names.
Cross out the name of each missing person
scenic blaze
Oh, there are differences based off of the number of polynomial coefficients calculated zzz
I hate these graphs it tells me nothing
Where's the cubic spline?
scenic blaze
Sure, that's what I figured
But close to what? The linear interpretation or the true data?
Should have made one a dotted line
eternal wing
^where's waldo has gotten really strange lately
floral viper
I was working on a problem earlier today (basically iterate through all combinations an an arbitrary amount of lists) and I solved it in a really ugly and not very pythonesque way. I worked on it a bit more now and managed to solve it a nice elegant pythonesque way using itertools so I feel pretty happy now 😄
rough sapphire
Nice 👍
scenic blaze
👍
floral viper
The question is should I boot up my worklaptop at 2:30 AM to implement it 🤔
I'm one of them with a corona induced completely FUBAR time schedule
scenic blaze
Same
floral viper
That feeling when you have worked on untracked changes and you accidentally make a git clean
strange barn
soft violet
floral viper
Why do I always end up building and debugging regex strings in the middle of the night?
It is seriously bad for my mental health
eternal wing
the fatigue makes the ideas flow like water
vague surge
I spoke briefly with the company president when we were waiting on other people for a meeting. He said that it doesn't matter what kind of bullshit is written on it, whenever he sees a whiteboard he knows something important is happening.
@scenic blaze o.o
glass gorge
tranquil orchid
yes
ivory moss
deep
twilit hull
Hahahahaha
sand goblet
precisely how I felt playing AHiT the first time around https://youtu.be/ghAAnYooXbY
haha
lost vortex
obtuse falcon
who puts off topic chanel names if there is machine learning algirythmy dedicing the name based on mesages we sent
plucky ridge
They're added by staff
Most of them are dumb little in-jokes or things we find funny in the moment
And the channel names themselves are cycled daily
obtuse falcon
hmm and another security quesrtion if it safe to dowland cracked apks
lofty dirge
No
plucky ridge
As a matter of course, no
obtuse falcon
how i crack games myself
plucky ridge
!rule 5
royal lakeBOT
plucky ridge
Not really a suitable question for this server
plucky ridge
I mean I'm not punishing you for asking it, I'm just telling you we can't and won't answer it
obtuse falcon
oaky
@obtuse falcon this one
plucky ridge
Oh right. No idea, I do stuff like that all the time
It's a miracle if I can get a sentence out without botching something
@sand goblet I want to correct myself on something. CrossCode does not in fact use Haxe. I got it and Dead Cells mixed up. CrossCode uses Impact.js, which also uses an orange logo, so I think that's what threw me off
plucky ridge
On a related note, Impact looks really friggin' cool
solid pollen
Lol, debian is trying to resolve the DNS for http://217.196.149.234/
What name do you want to resolve
half mural
patiently waits for CrossCode 1.3 to land on Switch
love the game, happen to be close to the creator since he lives close to me
sand goblet
I don't think I could play through it on a console
sticks aren't quite accurate enough
half mural
I think they're just as accurate in my experience so far
having played it on the PC before
just takes a little bit of getting used to
sand goblet
I've played through it like a dozen times on PC at this point tbh
I'm waiting for the post-game DLC
gon' be good
scenic orchid
hello
quick ledge
hello
undone berry
@lofty dirge a couple of days ago, you mentioned that you played games. At the time I didn't think anything of it, but you don't seem like the typical video game player to me - so now Im curious as to what games you play
I have no idea why this popped into my head right now - but it did
lofty dirge
@undone berry Here is my recent game list from steam
sand goblet
Some good stuff in there
undone berry
Hell Let Loose is far more fun than it has any right to be
lofty dirge
Deep Rock is great 4 player Coop
sand goblet
here's what I've got
undone berry
need 3 other people for that :(
sand goblet
deep rock I own and have nobody to play with haha
undone berry
I played it on a free weekend, and it was alright
lofty dirge
also not on Steam but I play a bit is World of Tanks
sand goblet
RoR2 is as amazing as its reputation states
undone berry
I do remember you talking about VR now
lofty dirge
Yea, you can see all VR
Half Life: Alyx, Hot Dog, Space Pirate Trainer, The Lab, Beat Saber are all VR
lofty dirge
I'm fortunate enough for that
proven estuary
rancid forge
sand goblet
I like them but also kinda don't
rancid forge
that's pinned in #mixin in the SpongePowered discord, and the message came right before a list of times where you should use accessors instead
sand goblet
sponge seems like a waste of time honestly
also they claimed from early on that glowstone was a sponge server
it is not
and never has been
rancid forge
well I'm going to do what the Forge devs might call a despicable exhibit of hackery
plucky ridge
Alright, I wonder if I'm just being weird about this. The last stable release for Impact was in 2014
It's still ranked fairly well, but for some reason that makes me super wary
There is still active development on their GH though
rancid forge
how many steps does it take to build and what is the recent commit history
if i know that then i could tell you what my not very intelligent opinion is
plucky ridge
I think 0 steps
It's a JS framework
I mean I've seen what the engine is capable of
CrossCode is proof that it can be used to make really awesome and performant games
I just always have that "Oh it hasn't been updated recently" stigma in my brain
rancid forge
well i think intellij idea is stupid
plucky ridge
Wait, why?
rancid forge
it tells me that i need to sync, but it also tells me that i need the android sdk to sync
im making a minecraft mod
plucky ridge
Sounds more like a configuration issue than a IDEA issue
rancid forge
and apparently idea deleted the minecraft development extension
hey reinstalling it made the "sync now" bar disappear
arctic seal
That moment, when a robot purposely fails the turing test.
quick ledge
👀
ancient minnow
But i think that you should study until you thibk u understand the subject good enough.
rough sapphire
hm
ancient minnow
I mean there is no point in studying in my opinion if you already understand everything.
rough sapphire
i feel like i gotta study at least 3 on summers and 3 and a half in school
well
yes
i still need to more advance on everything
bc u see harvard is very precise and selective
ancient minnow
I mean you should have at least a plan B
ancient minnow
Idk stanford or smth
ancient minnow
I mean youre never certain theyll choose you
ancient minnow
But how many classes until youve to go to the university?
rough sapphire
plenty
ancient minnow
Ohh but i think then you shouldn't worry too much about it. I mean i dont know how its with harvard. But in my country the universities just look at the last two classes and the grades you got in there.
rough sapphire
yes bu
honest star
(Ivy's are overrated and you should definitely consider other options based on what you want to do)
rough sapphire
the things i wanna do are in harvard
honest star
What do you want to do?
honest star
Well, you definitely don't need to go to harvard to do that
opaque depot
whats ivy?
rough sapphire
well yes
ancient minnow
But for opening a business you dont even have to go to a university
rough sapphire
but business is not my final choice
ancient minnow
I mean i dont encourage that behavior, but still...
honest star
I know some really great people that went to Ivys but... with the price tag and some of the culture that goes along with it, they've said they would've been better off going somewhere else
rough sapphire
maybe a business about computers science
ancient minnow
whats ivy?
@opaque depot i think he means university
rough sapphire
no
ancient minnow
Oh
honest star
There are GREAT computer science programs elsewhere. Especially with comp sci, where you go isn't a huge factor on your internships or first job
rough sapphire
like top level univirsities
ancient minnow
Ohh okay
undone berry
@honest star That sounds unlikely to me, you've got to remember that they don't really have any point of comparison. Going to MIT for example gives you a massive step up in terms of job oppurtunities
rough sapphire
but u see idk what i really want to do
undone berry
(the unlikely bit being that somewhere else would have been better)
rough sapphire
harvard has plenty of choices to excell in
undone berry
I'm currently at a shit uni, and probably could have gotten into a decent uni, and I severely regret my decision
despite the fact it hasn't actually held me back that much
honest star
Not necessarily though. It'll certainly give you access to some great opportunities, but it's already extremely competitive. But my point is I discourage only considering Ivys as the "good" schools, especially with the associated price tag.
rough sapphire
well deciding on jobs, knowing that the person your interviewing has been in an ivy uni you have a much greater chance
honest star
This is what an Ivy is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League
But it's mostly shorthand for some very prestigious and well regarded schools
undone berry
The right strategy for the US seems to be either: top tier uni, or community college then a decent uni
honest star
I mean... no? There are other middle ground options
undone berry
The middle ground options just don't seem like good choices
i'm an outsider, not actually in the US
rough sapphire
well
undone berry
but speaking to people who have done all 3 paths: Medium/pretty-good college, community college --> good college, and top tier colelge
and that middle option seems the worst
you get a shit ton of debt
rough sapphire
for the price tags there are scholarships and ivy's get you a much bigger chance on jobs
undone berry
compared to community college for associates followed by bachelors at a good uni
honest star
Not if you go to a school that you've received a scholarship for or that's in-state and you get in-state tuition for.
Scholarships are also VERY competitive though
undone berry
yeah that's true - if you can go to a decent school with a scholarship, that's a great choice
honest star
I'm just saying don't only consider Ivys. There are usually other choices that might make more sense.
honest star
Right, but that's your goal because you think it'll get you a better job but that's not a given.
undone berry
Sure, that's fair. You can't really boil complex systems like this down to simple rules like "anything but MIT is terrible"
It's not a given, but stats show that it is likely
rough sapphire
you see i also like arts and stuff so i might and can also consider Reed
ancient minnow
How did you guys train for SAT's
rough sapphire
i havent done my SAT yet
honest star
Do the stats factor in the high drop out rates? I'm also curious how much of that is dependent on connections you already have that got you into harvard in the first place. So the factor is not that you went to harvard, but you had existing connections
ancient minnow
i havent done my SAT yet
@rough sapphire no im not talking about you lol
honest star
Honestly, if you're set on an Ivy then Harvard isn't even the best for comp sci.
lofty dirge
yep, down the street, it's called MIT
rough sapphire
true
Honestly, if you're set on an Ivy then Harvard isn't even the best for comp sci.
@honest star what is
i mean some of the most succesfull people in the world are from comp sci and went to harvard like mark zuck
honest star
Rabbit said it, but the obvious answer is MIT. Also Carnegie is generally well regarded.
lofty dirge
MIT, Stanford, CalTech, Carnegie Mellon,
ancient minnow
i mean some of the most succesfull people in the world are from comp sci and went to harvard like mark zuck
@rough sapphire i wouldnt take him as role model
lofty dirge
Mark Zuck is not compsci, he is business man
if you want to run technology company, you don't need CS, you need MBA
rough sapphire
but the thing with MIT is that it only considers comp sci and no other thing and if i go to harvard there are plenty of options
well
starting from where this started
is an hour and a half and 2 hours on school days, enough for an ivy
honest star
doing what?
rough sapphire
studying
ancient minnow
And in the weekends?
honest star
I imagine things have changed since I was applying to schools, but the biggest factor was SAT scores, having near flawless grades, and an amazing essay + overall application. In that application you usually need good extracurriculars/projects/some sort of compelling story to tell.
rough sapphire
the only time i dont study is weekends and on special occasons or circumstances
so the amount im putting in is good?
honest star
The biggest thing every college was talking about was "the holistic approach" where they would consider the whole person and application, not just one aspect like grades.
ancient minnow
I imagine things have changed since I was applying to schools, but the biggest factor was SAT scores, having near flawless grades, and an amazing essay + overall application. In that application you usually need good extracurriculars/projects/some sort of compelling story to tell.
@honest star bruh i dont have anything on my curriculum vitae. Im really fucked i think
rough sapphire
so the amount im putting in is good?
honest star
I mean, yeah. But I'm mostly referencing them placing much more emphasis on other things besides grades. They got a LOT of people with flawless grades, they need something else to differentiate people (connections, essays, other portions of the application)
lofty dirge
and getting into Top Tier school is mostly luck assuming you have grades/SAT/extracurricular. There are 100s or 1000s applying per slot and they all look the same.
just like when hiring for a Junior Dev
rough sapphire
so
lofty dirge
tons of resumes and no easy way to tell A/B on paper
honest star
So it's more complicated than "I'm studying an extra X hours per day, will I get in?"
lofty dirge
SAT scores, extra curricular activity
lofty dirge
like clubs/music/volunteering
rough sapphire
clubss?
rough sapphire
what type of extra cirricular activity
plucky ridge
Is Glee Club still a thing?
lofty dirge
I'm sure somewhere
rough sapphire
where can we enter these clubs
plucky ridge
They're usually associated with your school
lofty dirge
Are you not in HS?
lofty dirge
were you asleep during morning announcements
honest star
Something you're interested in/passionate about that you can talk about well enough
rough sapphire
comp sci?
rough sapphire
i dont wanna reveal that
lofty dirge
Are you in HS?
rough sapphire
yes
lofty dirge
or you outside US?
lofty dirge
setup remote conversation with your guidance counselor
rough sapphire
like volunteering for Red Cross and stuff
rough sapphire
they help?
lofty dirge
Freshmen
rough sapphire
hm
honest star
There are also a lot of forums and message boards and specifically getting into these colleges and what'll be required.
rough sapphire
where are these forums
lofty dirge
Guidance Counselor, go find them
rough sapphire
so if i want to do stuff in programming i should consider MIT
cold current
That's not necessary
cold current
But MIT is good for engineering / programming, yea
honest star
(I didn't have a great experience with my guidance counselor. They were pretty not well versed in exactly how competitive it was and what exactly was required)
plucky ridge
They've given you like... 40 suggestions
plucky ridge
But the most important one is going to be seeing if you school has any resources
lofty dirge
kutiekatj, they are not best resource BUT better then us knuckleheads
plucky ridge
Like Rab said, your guidance counselor would be the one to get in contact with first
rough sapphire
k
honest star
I'm also recommending some other online resources, like blogs, forums, etc talking about this specifically. I think collegeconfidential is an okay starting off point for that
plucky ridge
If nothing else, they'll have some literature about various colleges and "what to do to get in" kind of thing
lofty dirge
because there might be local support and direct Noodle to whatever AP/IB/GT classes exist
plucky ridge
Also I feel like it should be pointed out that going straight to MIT as your first place isn't always the way to do things. Getting your gen eds. out of the way at a community college can usually save you shed loads of money, and give you a better idea of what you really want to go for in a major
You're still young, you have a LOT of time to figure out the path you want to walk.
cold current
Very good advice, especially getting GEs out of the way
honest star
But also make sure that you can actually transfer those credits to another university if you do want to switch over. I've heard a lot of bad stories of the gen eds effectively not counting and they have to re-do them anyway.
rough sapphire
ok
plucky ridge
That's usually with those "for profit" colleges, though
cold current
Yea, that would fucking suck
plucky ridge
Not through your local community colleges
Those at least usually have partnerships with other colleges and universities in the area or within the state
rough sapphire
ok
cold current
Good luck 👍
rough sapphire
ty
ancient minnow
I'm a drop-out
@plucky ridge how did you manage to get a job? Ive heard that as a college dropout acquiring a job is pretty hard
plucky ridge
Luck and work experience. I was doing temp jobs until that fell through and I asked if anyone was hiring on Facebook and an old friend of mine's mom mentioned the position opening up at their firm
That said, I didn't find it hard to find employment, just not in the field I studied in
I did grocery and retail for ages
ancient minnow
Oh cool but did you manage to grow in your position in the firm you're in rn. Or dont they allow that?
scenic blaze
If you're ever interested in career advancement and want to talk career stuff, hit me up.
plucky ridge
Very much so. I was hired on to be our runner and to take care of various office duties. I'm now our in-house IT as well as some other duties
ancient minnow
If you're ever interested in career advancement and want to talk career stuff, hit me up.
@scenic blaze yea you worked in a tech support company and couldn't find a job after that right?
plucky ridge
@scenic blaze I might take you up on that. I'm never sure if I want to go into programming as a career or not, you know?
ancient minnow
Very much so. I was hired on to be our runner and to take care of various office duties. I'm now our in-house IT as well as some other duties
@plucky ridge oh wow thats pretty good.
plucky ridge
Part of me worries it'll ruin the fun, another part worries that I'm not qualified, etc.
scenic blaze
Yeah and I no longer counted as a recent grad as well, it sucked. But I learned career stuff like it was my job and finally got an excellent career.
ancient minnow
Part of me worries it'll ruin the fun, another part worries that I'm not qualified, etc.
@plucky ridge try freelancing and look for yourself if youll like it
scenic blaze
I hear you. I can't speak to the fun part, but I definitely believe you're qualified.
plucky ridge
Maybe. For now I'm content with how things are
ancient minnow
Yeah and I no longer counted as a recent grad as well, it sucked. But I learned career stuff like it was my job and finally got an excellent career.
@scenic blaze well its great to hear it ended well
scenic blaze
But getting to work on exciting projects is pretty fun
plucky ridge
That's true. And I know I'd push myself to do better and its not like I'd be alone with stuff like that
scenic blaze
Yeah, I'm glad. Even if my current company goes under, with all the experience and skill I've picked up at finding jobs and nailing interviews I'm confident I could move to the next step pretty well
plucky ridge
I just need to actually make a portfolio of work. Currently it's all just helping out here
That's honestly what's saved me
scenic blaze
Which is awesome and meaningful, don't get me wrong. But take some time for self-development, you know?
plucky ridge
Just interviewing well and having work experience, even if it's not directly in the field I'm applying for
Absolutely
Well shit, that's all I do here, though.
I'm constantly trying to learn other languages on the side besides Python
plucky ridge
I'm not fluent in a lot of them, but I can get by and I learn fairly quickly
quick ledge
what did you do in college hem?
ancient minnow
I'm constantly trying to learn other languages on the side besides Python
@plucky ridge what languages do you know on at least an intermediate levl?
plucky ridge
A few things. Originally I was going for a Mass Communications Radio/TV degree, but after I switched colleges the program was more theory than application so I swapped out for Computer Information Systems, mostly IT and what not. That's when I got my first real taste for coding.
Python for sure. JavaScript I'm fairly okay with and could get up to speed if need be. Same with C#, I think.
quick ledge
cool
plucky ridge
And I know that if I was given a language that I HAD to buckle down and learn for a job I'd do it
Wouldn't be the first time I did that for here at work
Stupid Excel plugin.....
quick ledge
yeah lol
ancient minnow
But @scenic blaze what i dont understand about ur story is that, you were complaining that usually companies didn't want to have you bcs of your shitty first job and bcs they thought you weren't qualified enough bcs you didnt do an uni. But why didnt u just go to an uni so the qualified thing wouldnt be a problem anymore.
plucky ridge
Also created reports using SAP Business Solutions and CrystalReports
Man, THAT was a nightmare until I got into the swing of it
SAP is awful
quick ledge
how's the excel thing now?
scenic blaze
I did a uni, but companies who want to hire people without work experience want you to be a recent graduate
plucky ridge
Works like a dream finally
quick ledge
nicee
scenic blaze
Also, my uni was for engineering, not so much for coding
ancient minnow
I did a uni, but companies who want to hire people without work experience want you to be a recent graduate
@scenic blaze oh but why is that?
plucky ridge
They anticipate having to do a lot more training for you to get up to speed
And they want you still in learning mode
scenic blaze
Companies hire recent graduates because they figure their knowledge is fresh and modern. After a year, they figure you've lost some knowledge and/or it's not modern anymore.
ancient minnow
Ohh okay got it
plucky ridge
Where as if you have industry experience, even older experience, they figure you can get your hand back into the game fairly quick
From what I've read, at least
ancient minnow
But an old blacksmith will make a better sword then a rookie. So to get to the point older people usually have more experience right? So why arent companies counting experience too?
scenic blaze
Yeah, they figure if you've done X before, you can do X later, even if it's a few years later. They still place better value on if that experience is recent, though.
sand goblet
Companies keep equating years with experience though, and it's really stupid
it often feels like companies used to be excited to hire good people
and now they're just afraid to hire bad people
plucky ridge
@ancient minnow To put it bluntly, cost
They figure it's cheaper to get some fresh blood from colleges and train them up than to hire someone who has it down to an art
The young kids are just happy to get a shot and will work for peanuts
undone berry
The benefit of hiring a good person probably isn't that extreme. The cost of getting a bad one is
scenic blaze
It's also expensive to fire people
plucky ridge
True enough
scenic blaze
Anytime
warm nova
In
Julia,"abc" * "def" == "abcdef"and"abc" ^ 2 == "abcabc"because of some bullshit explanation about how it forms a monoid.
@shell raptor it's actually a great explanation, and it makes more sense
doesn't even talk about it being a monoid, it just points out that + is for commutative operations, while * is for non-commutative operations
rough sapphire
hello
kind shard
hello
floral viper
I have spent the evening writing and debugging regex strings. I seriously think they should put a limit on that. One regex a day max. Larger doses is harmful for your intellect.
scenic blaze
Fun 😦
rough sapphire
One regex a day seems really limiting, though
How about
One regex for every 8 hours
Two regex max every day
floral viper
Too much, brain damage critical
rough sapphire
Aight, aight
Although that limit is still limiting, though
I call for one regex every sixteen hours
Max
floral viper
I reckon the people that want more beer when they really shouldn't feel that is limiting as well
Oh calls sure, but building
I don't want to build more than one regex a day
floral viper
I mean calling a regex is no effort. Building one can be considerably complex though
rough sapphire
Yeah
shell raptor
@warm nova
it's actually a great explanation, and it makes more sense
doesn't even talk about it being a monoid, it just points out that + is for commutative operations, while * is for non-commutative operations
Sure,*in abstract algebra denotes a non-commutative but associative operation. It's just a very weird place to apply abstract algebra. Julia doesn't have rich support for abstract algebra in general or monoids in particular (unlike, for example, Haskell, where<>is the associative operation for monoids, and you can make functions that operate on any monoid).+or some variation of+is a common choice for string concatenation.
Let's access lists and arrays with η and μ, after all, they are monads
shell raptor
Well, it doesn't break stuff, so it's just my nitpicking.
warm nova
@shell raptor it's about the + and * symbols in general, not just abstract algebra
abstract algebra is generalized, but you can just use numbers, or matrices as an example
waxen elm
ok
waxen elm
if you want to learn game dev start simple.
waxen elm
your first game should be a command like game, just using basic inputs if statements.
Scissors paper rock is a good start
placid forge
what the heck is that lol
placid forge
rock paper scissors you mean?
waxen elm
americans call it "rock paper scissors"
placid forge
yes
radiant bone
Different dialects have different ways to say the name of the game, Vendetta
placid forge
wait but thats a real life game
waxen elm
ye
placid forge
what u mean put it in a virtual game
lel
sorry my iq is low atm
i haven't been in school due to vacation for 3 months
waxen elm
instead of hand gestures just use text
waxen elm
you have three inputs "rock", "paper", "scissors"
placid forge
ok but likes ITS TIME I LEARN HOW TO MAKE ROBLOX GAME
oops caps
no cap
hehe
okay
what r inputs
you have three inputs "rock", "paper", "scissors"
@waxen elm what r inputs
waxen elm
if you are an absolute beginner, you shouldn't be worrying about game dev now
just watch a basic tutorial or something
placid forge
rip
placid forge
oh so on read
okay
i swear im learning more then ever then I did in school before
and thats on being in a computer science college class as freshmen
radiant bone
Well, the output can be different things, depending on what you want
placid forge
i learned nothing in that class lol so don't worry
what do you mean by
text on a screen?
jkjkjkjkjkk
lol
tight meadow
One thing to remember is that each game will have their own unique challenges that you will not be able to forsee and you will have to ride with that
placid forge
🤣
waxen elm
you can output text, graphics, sound, print, etc.
placid forge
the hell do u mean by that @tight meadow
radiant bone
Errors, lots of them
waxen elm
how good are you at googling?
placid forge
very good
waxen elm
you're already a professional
placid forge
woah woah chill i aint no troll
waxen elm
go get a job
placid forge
omg really
im bad at googling
but im good at yahooing
just kidding who uses that
like if u do
either ur pc is old
or
ur a psycho
ok sorry
ok no more joking below this line
NO
JOKIUNG
Yes.
waxen elm
aight ima head out
placid forge
bye bro
how am i trolling
omg wow
oh wait I foRgoT tO fEeD My anTs IcE CreAm
goes to toilet
It sounds like you are new to coding. What you should do is learn the basics of the language you want to code in. Watch tutorials and follow along to get the hang of it. That’s where everyone starts, by learning
placid forge
accidentally clogs toilet
Ok back sorry.
How am i trolling
this is off topic
ok ok i will pay attention now
seriously
okay so lets say I am making a game
in roblox
and I want to make like a
attack on titan type of game
what should i start with?
The map?
like designign it?
ok jeez
tight meadow
You should start by getting the idea of the game
tight meadow
then make a simple prototype with only a few important mechanics that are required for your game
then build off of that
placid forge
whats a prototype
tight meadow
just a simple version
tight meadow
very SIMPLE
radiant bone
You make the mechanics
placid forge
noice
ok i think i learned enough for today
see you guys next year
thanks for help
rough sapphire
Hi
Just a small question
Have you ever sat in front of your computer crying over a bug and then finally fixed it with just a few lines?
scenic blaze
Last week there was a bug that plagued my entire project for like 30 hours and all it took was moving a "2" from one part of the line to another
rough sapphire
F
I understand that
scenic blaze
I hear you, it's frustrating and it's always bittersweet when you catch it and it's a simple thing
rancid forge
have you ever sat in front of your computer crying over a bug and then finally fixed it with just a few lines single character?
scenic blaze
Hah
I don't remember which language it was, but I recall fixing a major bug by hitting the delete key on a space
rough sapphire
How do i fix RTC connecting glitch
rough sapphire
Hi
Just a question
How many times did you have to rewrite your code in a project?
gentle moss
it was a stormy night and gales howled around the seemingly abandoned hallways of the offtopic channel. rain battered against the dust encrusted window panes as an unkempt tree branch scratched against one seeming to say... "Douglas.... Douglas...."
eternal wing
just here to say: i've been listening to primus all night because of this server lol
wtf is this band
rough sapphire
I think the only stuff I've listened to from them was from the mid-late 90's
it was enjoyable
eternal wing
yeah, I was taking a deep dive to run dmc, which moved to beastie boys, which very abruptly transitioned to primus
aaaannnnnd death metal
gentle moss
all of a sudden there was a distinct but worrying smell with an equally disquieting sound. a faint hiss and the smell of something similar to but not quite unlike naphtha.
PHWOOOOMMPH
eternal wing
idk what drugs inspired that band, but I am impressed
does anyone here listen to Ghost?
gentle moss
a blinding ball of flame fills the top half of the hallway as all the sconces on the wall ignite in a moment of excruciating heat and soot.
okay i could do this all day but we're one man down on the telephones.
Primus is pretty unique in terms of genre.
and for the record it's magic mushrooms.
eternal wing
haha, pretty crazy anyone thought of any of that.
let alone it being a semi-mainstream hit
gentle moss
oh i meant Primus, not Ghost.
eternal wing
thats what I mean
gentle moss
tbh i think they had a minor bit of fame in the US in the 90's and have just held a niche fanbase ever since.
eternal wing
yeah, maybe. But those youtube views
gentle moss
i got to see les claypool live 15 years since he'd last performed in the UK
gig was a friggin riot of primus fans
eternal wing
haha
gentle moss
but it was one of his solo album tours.
gentle moss
as a guitarist, you've got a very weird job to do
gentle moss
it's likely in a pentatonic
eternal wing
if I play random pinch harmonics, it kinda matches what they are doing xD
eternal wing
actually, harmonic minor sounds kinda neato
gentle moss
ler is generally doing "nothing" most the time
eternal wing
lol, nothing and then everything, then very quickly nothing
gentle moss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8gy8l4mZIE - is probably one with more of a structure to it
also my favourite slap bass riff of all time
eternal wing
lacquer head is a bit easier haha
pastel lagoon
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:/Users/charl/Desktop/projects/snake.py", line 126, in <module>
main()
File "C:/Users/charl/Desktop/projects/snake.py", line 103, in main
drawGrid(surface)
NameError: name 'drawGrid' is not defined
@rough sapphire
solid pollen
Kind of a blind guess, but can you try with self.drawGrid?
pastel lagoon
ill try
rough sapphire
the function isn't defined either because you didn't define it yourself, or you didn't import it from the pygame library
pastel lagoon
ok ill see if that changes anything
eternal wing
I made changes to your code, I @ you in help. Please do not double post. If you MUST, then MAYBE ask people to go to your help channel please.
It was 50% typos
I think you may want to try some simpler projects before diving too deep into object oriented programming (classes)
balmy stream
im here @narrow pecan
narrow pecan
This is the general layout of them:
!mute <USER_ID> <TIME> <REASON>
Where USER_ID is the id of the user. Everyone on discord has a unique one. For example, yours is 564400770187919360
narrow pecan
You gotta have developer mode enabled on your device
balmy stream
You gotta have developer mode enabled on your device
@narrow pecan im using discord for edgium
narrow pecan
I bet you can find some great resources about it online, for your platform
No clue what that is
balmy stream
and i have developer mode on
No clue what that is
@narrow pecan Chromium-based Microsoft Edge
narrow pecan
Oo okay
balmy stream
its better than chrome
narrow pecan
Who’s is that?
balmy stream
564400770187919360 heres mine
narrow pecan
Id*
We can see our own ones as well
Either way, all messages, users, channels and web hooks have their own, unique, IDs
balmy stream
yea i know about the messages but not about users having their UIDs
(because thats how you refer to a message right?)
narrow pecan
When you mention a user, discord is doing this behind the scenes:
@narrow pecan
balmy stream
oh
narrow pecan
When I refer to messages, I just copy the message link tbh