haha
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
sand thicket
there are lots of people doing freelance for more than that, but they are skilled, sharp, very quick;
but since I have came from a broken team myself, I can't give much advice on team working/jobs
granite plover
what do you mean broken team
sand thicket
well, I was invited to a team to work on a project, so the moment I got there, I started working, sorting out roles for devs, everyone job, conducted a few meetings to get to know the team... tried my best to get them working but seems like i wasn't a good member, I created a basic blueprint for the app but didn't see any work done from other members and left, so i call it broken team afterwards
granite plover
you were a manager?
sand thicket
tbh, i push myself a lot but when i get to a team, it gets toxic, i push others too, that's why i gotta become full-stack dev to lead my own herd of robots
not a first, but they chose me after doing all that stuff...
granite plover
the problem with new models of work
is that people don't see hierarchy
and lack respect
i never had problems on leading projects to teams, but i can see the strugle
sand thicket
well i created a few blueprints, explained everyone role for them, talked with people privately, asked problems, solved them but then I didn't see anyone interested except a devops manager
seems like "teams" are not my cup of tea
granite plover
haha
sand thicket
it makes me depressed lol
granite plover
wow, that's bad dude
sand thicket
why, have you had any success leading teams?
granite plover
yes, all the way
idk, the kind of relation you create with people that stands for it
you know
i had good managers
learned a lot from them
sand thicket
great, i guess i need to learn from someone too
How is me "pushing others to work" sounds to you?
a toxic guy, i guess?
granite plover
i mean
the best way to make people do stuff
is to inspire
not by asking
you have to earn respect from people, then you stand for a project
and they help you for respect and willing you to be well seen by your superiors
if you push them, they'll be stressed out
sand thicket
right, but the only thing that inspires me is "working"
granite plover
idk, human relations are really complex
sand thicket
leading ain't my thing
granite plover
i read about it a lot
to know very little
it's just how you conduce relations with the people/environment
i'm always serious and focused, but i play soft jokes on team to not be so serious all the time
so the people see you are alright, but not to fuck with
you know
sand thicket
well at first week, I was just as you described but when we started the project and saw people not getting things done, then things went sideways
granite plover
well, you have to always understand what makes people move
understand what they want to their lives
sometimes lack of focus is because they just dont like the project
if a guy has problems at his house, with his family
sand thicket
I tried, they all agreed to most of things, but suddenly, you are saying @ everyone and nobody is picking, uhhh
yeah that problem "sometimes lack of focus is because they just dont like the project"
most had this
granite plover
but if they are getting paid
they have to do it anyway
if you have the power to end their contracts without talking to somebody above you, you can private chat the guy, ask the real reasons he is not helping and ending his contract if the situation does not change
sand thicket
it was a project we were doing for profit to come later, doing it all for the experience and things like that, I think money could motivate ppl
sand thicket
yeah haha
granite plover
but idk kisho
i would strongly recommend to read about people, a little about psicology would help
people are complex
sand thicket
sure, I might try the next time I go to a team, don't have any plans for now.
granite plover
i mean, not a problem of mine, and don't answer if not confortable to you, but you have an active social life?
getting out on pubs, bars
hanging out in general
you learn a lot by just getting out and talking to strangers
sand thicket
haha, I guess people know that I don't have a life by the way I express myself; I don't do life, I am a workaholic.
granite plover
i had social anxiety for much time
sand thicket
I talk to people in here sometimes
granite plover
but for real, at a place meant to know people?
haha
i had to expose myself a lot
for my social anxiety
sand thicket
no man, i rarely leave my apartment
sand thicket
yeah lol
granite plover
but when shit get normal
try to build a routine of going to a nice place once a week
some place that people get drunk
it's good to exercice understanding people
because drunk people talk a lot
you can more listen than talking
sand thicket
good idea, i had quit drinking tbh, i used to do that a lot
sand thicket
I would drink everytime I got thirsty
granite plover
it's usefull, but if you use too much it gets bad
hahaha
i guess that i overcome the social anxiety when i got my first girlfriend, 5 years ago
that helped a lot
know i'm missing to not go out
see people
sand thicket
haha, I guess as you say people are complex, people here are not much interested about working and talking about quality stuff or research anything, I wrote two books covering some CTFs and how to solve them, but then again no one was interested.
sand thicket
It's better I don't tell you that, but where I am from people haven't done much for the country, so I write books, and I am planning to create websites to get them working, but it won't work, I will do it anyways.
granite plover
alright
well, if you like doing that
keep up
the best part is enjoying what you do
even better if you are getting payed for it
tacit flint
@sand thicket what's the name of your book? can i check it out?
sand thicket
@tacit flint sure I can give you the link but both of them are written in Persian/Farsi language; let me know if you want 🙂
solid pollen
I wanna build a snowmaaannn
rough sapphire
cosmic lotus
snow?
wooden silo
Along with the entirety of 2020
glass gorge
Yup started snowing here as well now
0 degrees and it's sticking :|
Let's all agree 2020 never happened, we'll just.. not have a 2020 on calendars of the past
glass gorge
Did anyone even confirm that
glass gorge
Media just say he "supposedly called his son... but if this is their legal/offical name is still not confirmed"
etc
But if anyone were do it, it's musk
Hopefully all name validations online support their name 
rough sapphire
still not confirmed
and probably won't ever be, either
But California, where Musk lives, allows only the 26 English letters of the alphabet to be used on birth certificates, along with a limited list of special characters including apostrophes, hyphens and periods. That means no numbers or Æ symbols.
but, of course, money
the kid is probably south african or something
glass gorge
Maybe hes annoyed with name restrictions / validations and wants to make a woke point
gentle moss
the Æ is actually pronounced "ash" too
rather than "ee"
is that a historical thing or something?
undone berry
It's called an aesh
rough sapphire
in which language
gentle moss
i know it's now "ä" in swedish
gentle moss
As a letter of the Old English Latin alphabet, it was called æsc ("ash tree")[1] after the Anglo-Saxon futhorc rune ᚫ ( Runic letter ansuz.svg ) which it transliterated;
undone berry
rough sapphire
glass gorge
ash doesn't sound anything like the norwegian pronunciation at least
gentle moss
i got there first.
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire i know that photo in your avatar and it's bugging me. tell me
rough sapphire
it's evangeline lilly, from a vanity fair photoshoot
nsfw https://neonsea.uk/lilly.jpg not nude but probably wouldn't want to show your boss either
rough sapphire
thanks @rough sapphire my brain can rest now
@gentle moss it's not even eccentric or edgy, it's just pathetically cringeworthy
i kinda hope elon musk sees this
know your shame
do you think elon must frequents this server
musk, even
obviously
6 degrees of separation. he can't be that far
I hope there's something more indepth to the name than it seems
"X" for X-factor, "ash" for AI in elven and "A-12" for a fast airplane...
glass gorge
What if the kids name also has a double space, and a tab in it
rough sapphire
it's just grimes and elon thinking they're super cool nerds and feeding off of each other's stupidity
hmhm maybe it's not as cringey as it looks
many things seem cringey until you realize they're not
gentle moss
nope, it's pretty cringey.
i think calling the kid "skunk" would be less cringey
skunk musk
mmmm
delicious
rough sapphire
they're too out of touch to realise how cringey it is. they just think they're nerd icons
but why not let them lead
what if they want to let people call their kids whatever they want
though that will lead to problems....
gentle moss
i think the limits of naming should be social
there are some things that shouldn't though
special characters / numbers would be a nightmare.
rough sapphire
yeah
gentle moss
even though in some african languages the ! is actually a sound
like a glottal click or something
rough sapphire
rough sapphire
^^
gentle moss
i imagine some nations have restrictions on names purely because of technical limitations of their data systems
undone berry
special characters / numbers would be a nightmare.
They are a nightmare for people with stuff likeØin their names
so many places just don't support it
gentle moss
yeah
undone berry
US visas was the example I was given - things just get fucky with 0 warning
gentle moss
or ß.
tbh it happened before technology
when migrants first started moving over to the US in the 18/1900's the people giving them papers couldn't deal with their names and the people maybe didn't speak english
so just gave them entirely different names
soft violet
Many of the stolen generation in Australia were given different names, too, I think.
gentle moss
there's a lot of that in colonial history
"here's your new language, here's your new name, off you pop."
"and stop speaking gibberish!"
soft violet
Your new religion.
rough sapphire
in germany you can write äöüß as ae oe ue ss
plucky ridge
In fairness, the UK doesn't have the greatest track record with stuff like that either
plucky ridge
Ah, missed that
We have incoming storms so my brain is incredibly cloudy
Like to the point where it's affecting my vision
Kind of funky
gentle moss
try flying planes in the opposite direction
rough sapphire
do you get headaches when a storm is coming?
rough sapphire
i get that
plucky ridge
Today it's just mood destabilization and haziness
rough sapphire
in estonia you cannot, you must write öäõü as what they are and š, ž as well
undone berry
That would suck - because otherwise, storms are great
rough sapphire
the latter of which people really want to write "sh", "zh" for instead
like, dog, no
soft violet
@rough sapphire Sometimes, but not always, my joints get painful.
gentle moss
i sometimes feel a storm in my broken thumb.
plucky ridge
Formerly broken or currently
gentle moss
formerly.
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire so what does it look like when you're on a train/bus etc?
plucky ridge
Wasn't sure if I missed something
gentle moss
surgery scar itches and the ligament gets tight
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire ?
plucky ridge
Natures way of saying... actually I don't know WHAT it's trying to say
rough sapphire
next stop: blah
gentle moss
who are the people trying to change them to sh/zh xx?
rough sapphire
oh, no, the electronic signs and shit all seem to have proper support for those chars
soft violet
@gentle moss That'd be pretty radical to have a whole storm contained to within your thumb.
soft violet
@gentle moss You could do thumb smitings.
gentle moss
well if i don't have a magic keyboard can i do a sh/zh?
rough sapphire
yes
gentle moss
thank you for your permission.
i will screenshot this and print it on a business card
plucky ridge
My keyboard isn't that kind of magical
rough sapphire
there's a "modifier" character for that
plucky ridge
But it's still pretty dope
rough sapphire
like, you press that character
then you press the other character that you want funkiness to happen to, like "z"
and out comes ž
i forget what it's called, though
rough sapphire
we should just call it the yeet key
gentle moss
no.
rough sapphire
so kinda like AltGr?
gentle moss
altgr is option key, yeah
“¢”nµđħŋðđß@łe¶ŧ←
i have a whole bunch on linux i don't get on windows.
lovely.
gentle moss
yeah, sounds right for a letter charcode
plucky ridge
What's interesting is that those specifically need the numpad for some reason
I never understood that
rough sapphire
it becomes obvious when you can't do them on a laptop 😄
i have two keyboard mappings set up for cmd + space
soft violet
You can't use the number keys above the letter keys?
rough sapphire
these letter are only in loan words in estonian, though
so you won't be typing those a lot at all
unless you work in the chocolate or garage industries
gentle moss
i wont be typing a lot of characters because i'm a filthy monolinguist
soft violet
You can rent a garage, but when you try to rent chocolate, everyone gets opinionated.
soft violet
Alingual?
rough sapphire
i want to murder someone
this lockdown is getting to me
is this what being in jail is like?
how the hell does jail prepare people for the outside world
gentle moss
no, this is not what being in jail is like.
and how jail prepares people for the outside world is a politically contentious subject
punishment vs rehabilitation
plucky ridge
Was thinking about all that this morning, actually
Nothing profound, mind you
It just crossed my mind
soft violet
Profound. Confound. Hm.
plucky ridge
Well sure
gentle moss
and for no privately run prisons or private security contrators as prison guards
plucky ridge
Punishment doesn't benefit anyone, all it does is make a few people feel better. Which yes, that's important, but having people be able to overcome their own issues and better both themselves and the community at large...
I feel like that's a just better plan
gentle moss
i don't believe the criminal justice system should farm itself out to for profit organisations.
punishment making people feel better is a false justice, imo
rough sapphire
(totally off-topic by now, but i like this joke i just saw: xaea12 isn't musk's baby's new name, it's a pointer to where it's stored)
lol
gentle moss
hahaha
plucky ridge
That's amazing
gentle moss
best dumb baby joke i've heard so far
soft violet
What is the consensus as to the correct pronunciation?
undone berry
Sasha
gentle moss
although if we take maybe an asian influence on the use of the X
you get Sasha 12
or even like, Xander
plucky ridge
Makes me think of Psychonauts
gentle moss
Xasha
soft violet
Hrg...
plucky ridge
There was a character in that named Sasha-9
undone berry
There's some country where baby names can be rejected
rough sapphire
i think that california does too... i'm pretty sure that's not a valid name
undone berry
Pretty sure the one I was thinking of was a Scandi country
plucky ridge
Or is it more just keeping the names "pure" to the region?
gentle moss
in France you had to pick your baby name from a government list
in California i believe the restriction is the alphabet?
plucky ridge
That's sensible
gentle moss
Only the 26 characters of the English alphabet are allowed, which rules out umlauts and others.
unfair on people of different cultures
plucky ridge
Until you have to look them up in a database
gentle moss
that's probably the limitation
undone berry
That sounds pretty not-California like to be fair
gentle moss
it does
plucky ridge
In fairness, my views on it are coming from someone who worked at the Vital Records department
It's hard enough trying to find people without the extra crazy stuff
plucky ridge
And I don't mean like accented letters
undone berry
But that's not really going to help that much. Surnames can still have funky letters
gentle moss
else they'd have to upgrade the DMV typewriters
plucky ridge
I'm talking like $ and what not
Legitimately, had someone with a dollarsign in their name
undone berry
The anglicisation of the world is pretty shitty - and shouldn't be pushed more than it has to
gentle moss
^
rough sapphire
can i name my child John $(reboot)
undone berry
I mean - that is dumb, but it shouldn't cause problems anywhere. Places should be resilient enough to live with it
gentle moss
government systems are underfunded and shit
undone berry
as in if the world worked properly, it shouldn't
but the world doesn't work close to properly
gentle moss
yeah
plucky ridge
You waaaaaaaaaaaaay overestimate how well put together the databases are
soft violet
If there's an established cultural basis for the inclusion of a name or a character, then the systems ought to be expanded to accommodate them.
rough sapphire
it's good to have names officially written in the language of the country
undone berry
yeah - I get that it does cause problems, but really it ought not to
rough sapphire
because otherwise searching for them in databases\sorting etc. might be difficult
soft violet
Then you enter hint names.
plucky ridge
Right, and that's my point. Again, I'm not for whitewashing names and what have you
gentle moss
some countries don't have an official language.
plucky ridge
Yeah, true
gentle moss
the UK doesn't, afaik
plucky ridge
Technically the US doesn't
soft violet
Or make it so you can search O and it matches with the crossed out O.
gentle moss
it's a de facto language, but not official.
sand goblet
It's a problem that's been solved for a while
plucky ridge
In some systems
plucky ridge
Sure
gentle moss
oh yeah, good point
plucky ridge
In systems that have it
gentle moss
i mean, we're pie in the sky here right now hemlock
undone berry
I'd say English is the official language because thats what all official documents are published in
gentle moss
i think we all know state IT systems are fucking awful
yeah, but it's not a legal official language
just a de facto
undone berry
the UK honestly has some pretty reasonable public facing systems
.gov.uk sites are pretty nice
(and open source)
gentle moss
it took ages to get it functional and went massively over budget
but yes, it's not that bad
undone berry
Honestly - I just love the fact they're open source
undone berry
It does - but from a government that wants to ban encryption, it's surprising they didn't try and just funnel money at some contractor
gentle moss
well they did that first
gentle moss
contractor built it, state open sourced it
it was a labour job iirc
there are quite a few fiascos over the digitisation of government services but it's not turned out that bad
undone berry
I've had 0 complaints when using .gov.uk sites
gentle moss
my biggest complaints aren't related to my use of the sites, more to do with the removal of pen/paper or in-person options in favour of the digital version
i've never had a problem doing anything on them.
the roadtax system is fucking excellent compared to previous options
undone berry
Yeah. Sometimes things could be sorted out in 5 minutes talking to a human being, but you have to go through a million web pages instead
rough sapphire
.gov.uk sites are generally well-put together, even when compared to estonia's government sites
we digitized everything over a decade ago
gentle moss
you also have a wider availability of internet too
rough sapphire
yeah, but i'll be honest, the sites for our services haven't been... great
they're not unusable, but they're not great either
rough sapphire
it's just
it feels like something out of 1999 (less so nowadays, but still)
like you're looking more at an excel spreadsheet than an actual site
gentle moss
ahhh
rough sapphire
navigating to what you need is a pain
gentle moss
web1.0
rough sapphire
also different government branches have their own sites for services related to them, and you can tell it's not made by the same teams
so there's no consistency either
lofty dirge
xx where is here? US
lofty dirge
weird, yall are small enough that should have been doable
gentle moss
jesus, i can't imagine what US state websites look like
rough sapphire
we've digitized all government services @lofty dirge
gentle moss
oh nevermind i've seen them before.
lofty dirge
a disaster zone
lofty dirge
"scale"
rough sapphire
there's nothing wrong with it
it works
but it just feels a bit archaic at times
gentle moss
i mean, digitising an ENTIRE NATIONS GOVERNMENT SERVICES, regardless of nation size
is still a pretty big scale
lofty dirge
sure
rough sapphire
population isn't a factor here at all, i don't think
undone berry
Yeah. 1.4m people isn't that many. But for every single service - that's pretty damn hard to get right
gentle moss
don't just point at the population size and say "eh, could've done that for sure."
lofty dirge
but I'm looking at 🦅 POV
gentle moss
i really don't think it's a population issue either
lofty dirge
sure, but lower population means less departments and like
gentle moss
but it's a classic american point of view i see all too much
undone berry
Yeah, UX is pretty agnostic to size
gentle moss
"US is too big. couldn't do it."
undone berry
sure, but lower population means less departments and like
not really
gentle moss
you think countries have less departments because they're smaller?
that's cute as fuck
:D
lofty dirge
bisk
rough sapphire
i'm not sure what departments you think our government doesn't have that yours does..?
lofty dirge
for sure
undone berry
What departments does the US have that Estonia doesn't? Not many
undone berry
Well - you were talking about scale
lofty dirge
take police for example, you have federal, state, county and maybe even city
undone berry
but scale doesn't play into it that much
gentle moss
right, but the UK still has local councils etc that are in charge of their own websites
and a bunch of them are shite
rough sapphire
as do we, but you don't generally do services from there
rough sapphire
everything "tries" to be unified under eesti.ee
lofty dirge
my point is, the number of departments
rough sapphire
but it's often just... not
some sections just redirect you to some strange looking webapp hosted on an entirely different domain
rough sapphire
the whole united states chanting "we can't do it because we're too big" is just a load of horse baloney somebody has fed them
undone berry
Estonia probably has more departments to manage than Idaho
lofty dirge
worldwake, I'm not arguing we can't do things
Charlie but Estonia Federal Departments < Idaho + Federal Departments
gentle moss
Idaho wouldn't be responsible for doing the Federal Department websites
why would that be the case?
lofty dirge
Sure but all those different departments would need to be done
gentle moss
by their respective branches of government
rough sapphire
"a city the size of new york city could never work! we don't have those in finland!"
gentle moss
which, to be honest, just points to a failure to build a coherent system of governance
¯_(ツ)_/¯
rough sapphire
and yet, there it is.
rough sapphire
lol
undone berry
But individual states take care of a lot of shit. DMV for example - and thats still shit in every state afaik
gentle moss
yeah, the failure cascades down.
Federal websites are awful too
so the Fed wont do it
the States wont do it
undone berry
My point is - Idaho could digitise everything, but don't
stark prawn
You always see the DMV in these movies having massive lines.
gentle moss
from the americans i've known, that's actually the case
lofty dirge
worldwake, population of Finland, ~5.5 Million, population of New York City (not counting metro area), ~8.6 millon
gentle moss
again, i'm not sure this is a population thing
it's purely down to the desire to improve services
undone berry
His point is that just because X is a different size to Y, doesn't mean X/Y can't use similar strategies to solve problems (I think)
gentle moss
and there's very little of that in the US
lofty dirge
Sure, but generally even departments get bigger, they get specialized
gentle moss
i mean christ you still have to fill out your own tax forms and shit
rough sapphire
https://arse.ee/GI2JRJfF.png this is the section of the list of services we have digitised so far
gentle moss
mine is done automatically
stark prawn
improving services = evil socialism.
lofty dirge
so it's more department to talk to
gentle moss
i don't even have to fill in a tax form because my employer is required to submit that shit.
and if i did
i could fill most of it in online.
stark prawn
tax filing in the netherlands for the average person takes like 3 minutes.
lofty dirge
like I worked for my local county police as IT guy a long time ago
gentle moss
the only time i've had to interact with the tax authority is when i was over taxed, but it turns out they'd already figured that out and my rebate was on the way.
lofty dirge
even our local county police compared to NYC, we have detectives just like NYC does, but we didn't have homicide division, we just had "major crime" division which did Homicide, Attempted murder and like
undone berry
I don't see the relevance. You can sort your shit out at a state level and leave things messy at the federal level
the fact its bad now doesn't mean it couldn't be better
lofty dirge
Charlie, my point is even two departments that look similar on paper, the police, when it gets bigger, it's more complex underneath
that's like saying flask/django are same because they are both web
gentle moss
not sure what that's got to do with making government services like paying taxes, reporting pot holes, etc, etc available online
undone berry
I'm not saying it isn't - just that individual states could very feasibly digitise the systems
stark prawn
It's not that they can't, it's that htey don't want to
lofty dirge
bisk, as you grow, there is more work to do because different departments even if htye look the same on paper, get crazy when you look underneath
gentle moss
hmm... good point.
maybe you should rebuild the country first
so it makes sense.
:P
lofty dirge
like I just did my taxes, federal taxes are nightmare compared to my state taxes
undone berry
I'm not sure on your point tho - that's true of every system, including digitised ones
lofty dirge
and luckily we don't have local income taxes
gentle moss
can you do any of them online?
lofty dirge
both of them were done online
rough sapphire
@lofty dirge seeing how much money the US pumps into warfare, maybe some of that should be spent on improving the citizens' lives instead
iunno
just my two cents
"can't be done, too big" just sounds like a load of horseshit to me
lofty dirge
@rough sapphire someone has to keep russians off your border 😛
undone berry
The complexity is true sure - but also really not that relevant
lofty dirge
it was sarcasm from me
lofty dirge
but standard American of "You can have healthcare when you are not protecting yourself"
gentle moss
"we could have nice things but lets keep starting wars"
to be honest in a lot of cases it's not even that
lofty dirge
those middle east problems won't bomb themselves
undone berry
The US has over double the military spending of the next country - could very feasibly cut back (and obviously should cut back)
gentle moss
and, as a non-american who pays a lot of attention to america, the argument "we're too big for that"
is thrown about so much
and it is horse shit.
"we're the best in the world! ...but that wont work here...."
undone berry
It might be relevant in some cases - but I have yet to see it
lofty dirge
Charlie, you can't at this point, it's too embedded into economy for political reforms
undone berry
Yeah, lobbying means change is never gonna happen
lofty dirge
you would destroy parts of country economically
undone berry
or at least not in the forseeable future
You can absolutely demilitarise
but it won't happen
lofty dirge
I'm talking realistic politics
gentle moss
maybe parts of the country should be economically destroyed because those are false economies.
lofty dirge
people are all for cutting defense spending until they are out of work
undone berry
realistic politics for the US and the rest of the world are vastly different
lofty dirge
in most countries
gentle moss
during the Iraq war a tank factory was kept open producing tanks that were just dumped in the desert
they weren't even suitable for the Iraq war
lofty dirge
bisk, those are jobs
rough sapphire
were they water tanks?
lofty dirge
you can't
gentle moss
yes you can.
you CHOOSE not to.
we lost our entire coal mining industry at one point
just voom. gone.
lofty dirge
that's like people who say "TEACH EVERYONE TO PROGRAM", that's horseshit, I've met plenty of people who brains are not wired for it
gentle moss
fuck programming
i don't care, they can make cars
learn to lay bricks
become builders, plumbers, whatever
lofty dirge
we moved assembly to robots
undone berry
there's always the alternative of UBI
lofty dirge
We have some of highest wages in world, if you can do with robots or overseas, you do
rough sapphire
another argument about the american economy, great 🥳
gentle moss
how are those wages distributed?
lofty dirge
makes bald eagle sounds and fire offs some assault rifles into air
undone berry
Vast amounts of military spending goes on research and production of relatively few military vehicles. That skilled labour can feasibly be hired into alternative skiilled jobs
lofty dirge
bisk, terribly
undone berry
you just need to create them
gentle moss
exactly.
you have some of the poorest people in the world along with some of the richest.
nation should put some effort into self care.
plucky ridge
No argument here
undone berry
You can reskill enough that the economic impact is minimised
lofty dirge
you hope
gentle moss
UK did it with the coal industry
undone berry
saying that you need to spend 300b on defense just to keep some jobs
is obviously dumb
gentle moss
"oh but the UK is tiny!"
lofty dirge
bisk, they who are brexiting because of those coal miners shouldn't throw stones
rough sapphire
i'm pretty sure there's a big gaping market for green energy
gentle moss
i think you misunderstand the political landscape of brexit.
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire someone has to keep russians off your border 😛
@lofty dirge 🤦 i can't tell if this is serious or not
lofty dirge
xx, it was standard American response to Euros bitching at us about our defense budget
lofty dirge
neon, sure, but green energy still requires different skills and alot of time, it doesn't make sense to do it where existing workers live
lofty dirge
benefits on defense spending for politicians is simple, it's work that never ends
bombs get used and new ones made, there is always some upgrade that happens
undone berry
Honestly baffling that you think the 300b too much you spend on defence couldn't be cut because it would kill too many jobs
so many potential solutions
gentle moss
lazy re-election strategy.
lofty dirge
bisk, that's how elections work
undone berry
People spout lies which get picked up by people like you til scumbags get re elected?
lofty dirge
Charlie, you have me confused with someone who supports said policies with someone who recognizes why they work
gentle moss
nah, people keep open pointless tank factories in their state so they don't have to fire 5000 people
so they can get re-elected for "keeping jobs"
busy body bullshit with no production value
undone berry
The fact you're regurgitating them seems to imply that you believe they're the only way
I don't expect change - but it is 100% possible
gentle moss
i think the US can change
i just don't expect to see it in my lifetime
it's almost a shame they didn't get the shit bombed out of them in WW2
might've given them something to think about.
undone berry
How do I know its possible? Other countries have done it
lofty dirge
yes, we need better social safety net, and we need to stop spending so much on defense so we could put that money elsewhere
undone berry
You've just been saying that you can't stop spending on defense
because it would ruin the economy
lofty dirge
but that's tough sell when status quo works for so many, just look at our primaries, we had guy who wanted radical reform and people overwhelming went with status quo
undone berry
Status Quo also completely fails many
gentle moss
tax the rich, fund public schools better, feed the rich to the poor, give everyone health care, stop starting wars.
undone berry
People went with the status quo in no small part due to media bias
lofty dirge
but not enough to push for political desire for reform
gentle moss
that's my 5 point plan.
undone berry
Trump is a great example of the potential to break the status quo. He is by no means a traditional political candidate
but not enough to push for political desire for reform
Trump ran and won with reformist rhetoric
rough sapphire
i wonder how rich people taste
lofty dirge
and then didn't
gentle moss
i think he's reformed a lot
undone berry
point being that there is clearly an appetite for change if Trump won
gentle moss
if by reform we mean tear down
lofty dirge
Sure, but I think Trump was media desire to show people "if you want reform, watch what happens"
gentle moss
and what's most annyoing about the Status Quo is
when i grew up
they told me i could have whatever i want
whatever i like
lofty dirge
because let's push the worst "reformer" there was
undone berry
Trump's base is still in favour of him though. The media hasn't really shifted anyone away from that position. I don't but that at all
gentle moss
i think the media's desire with trump was
"HOLY SHIT WE PUT HIM ON TV AND OUR RATINGS GO UP"
lofty dirge
Sure
rough sapphire
@gentle moss and you chose to be you?
undone berry
Yeah, I think thats about the gist of it
undone berry
Change in the US is 100% possible, people have the apetitie for it. What makes it entirely unlikely is the extreme media bias in favour of the status quo
lofty dirge
Charlie, so explain Biden victories, media bias?
rough sapphire
I mean I've heard of Status Quo but I would not have recognized any of their lyrics
undone berry
Charlie, so explain Biden victories, media bias?
yes
gentle moss
if you've listened to one of their songs you've heard them all tbh worldwake
their name is kind of ironic
the DNC being skewed against Bernie didn't help either tbh
but eh, the past is the paste
i forgot how annoying their music was.
lofty dirge
I think people discount how much status quo works, like student debt, it has put a bunch of people into debt, but there are still a ton of people who go to college and get out with very decent paying jobs
rough sapphire
you're in the army now?
gentle moss
oh hey that's one!
lofty dirge
wife and I are both millenials and in top 5% household income, we both dislike status quo but can't say it's not working for us, most of my coworkers are in top 10% household thanks to their job even if their partner works lower paid job
undone berry
yes - but you're not the majority
you're literally explaining how you're exceptional
the top 10% live comfortably well fucking duh
lofty dirge
Sure, but for many it's not terrible either, it's really millenials who got those low paying jobs and buried in debt who are suffering and they are 30% of population
US will change, just slower then many would like
because what really changed over years was debt people acquired, sure incomes have stayed flat (another problem) but debt has sky rocketed
gentle moss
but there's no other way to get towards your success story without loading yourself up with debt
which is a massive risk.
if you can even afford to take it
undone berry
The official poverty rate is 12.3 percent, based on the U.S
That's straight up poverty
gentle moss
yeah, i justed looked that up too
~39m in poverty.
we can't really talk that much because the UK's is 19-20%
but our metrics will be different
undone berry
The status quo might work for some. But those who it doesn't work for are disproportionately young
lofty dirge
Charlie, and as that young become powerful voting block, it will change
gentle moss
it's not going to work so well if they're under educated due to lack of funding in public services though
undone berry
The window for change is closing though. As services are continually underfunded, young people become disenfranchised with the system as a whole and turn away
gentle moss
all it breeds without knowledge is anger.
undone berry
The end result is authoritarianism or anarchy
gentle moss
people are raging against a machine
undone berry
and its looking more like the former
gentle moss
but they don't know what machine
or what it stands for
they just want
something else
lofty dirge
last I saw, college graduates % in US was similar to UK
what's different is those who go to college
undone berry
the US is continually taking steps to counteract the force of the young. Gerrymandering, voter supression, literal vote fixing
gentle moss
check your OECD levels
for lower level education
because just by looking at university education
you discount a huge portion of the population
lofty dirge
sure
gentle moss
i never went to uni, despite being able to, because the government introduced fees and i was not willing to go ~£30k in debt for an career path i wasn't even sure i wanted
turns out that i didn't want that career path and i dodged a bullet.
lofty dirge
but education until college is free so we do poorly for some other reasons
gentle moss
because they're not being funded properly. :3
undone berry
Also standardized testing sucks - but thats a global problem
gentle moss
and, perhaps this might sound weird, but maybe states shouldn't have different educational standards
and there should be a federal body for education
that creates a centralised standard of education
lofty dirge
yea, we don't standardize test well, which probably best
bisk, sure but political, people don't want to see education standards for country this big come from federal government, esp when you are talking history
gentle moss
because people are still caught up in states rights and that sort of bollocks, yeah. i know.
it's a shit reason not to do something positive though
and it's one of the reasons the US has such problems with positive reforms in a lot of areas
they require central management and standardisation
which means accepting that you're not better because you're from Texas
lofty dirge
but in democracy, you can't go all authoritarian
gentle moss
that's not authoritarian
having a federal body of education is not authoritarian.
otherwise you're calling pretty much every country in europe authoritarian.
lofty dirge
it will be when people elect representatives to overturn such federal standards
undone berry
Honestly. I don't think federalisation is necessarily the answer. Possibly some federal oversight, but devolution of powers to local states does/can work
gentle moss
whelp, maybe if your country weren't so fucking stupid it'd have less problems.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
time to make that chilli
lofty dirge
Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…
undone berry
No one is arguing against democracy
lofty dirge
neon, that was somewhat tried under Bush, it's been repealed due to how unpopular it was
rough sapphire
I think the argument in the US is already coming to the point that it's not a democracy. it's something else.
plucky ridge
Republic/Corporate state
rough sapphire
but seriously people are arguing that it's not a democracy
lofty dirge
it's corporatecracy
plucky ridge
Sounds like a sneeze
gentle moss
Oligarchy
rough sapphire
just because you can vote doesn't mean we should do exactly like the people want
gentle moss
Capitalist protectionism taken t extremes.
pine vector
i'd actually blame the distillation of the word "democracy" in reference to our government. we were never a democracy... 😄
gentle moss
and in the case of brexit too, yes.
lofty dirge
worldwake, but that's how it works, we elect representatives, they do things, if we don't like the things we do, we replace them
gentle moss
well, no
rough sapphire
@lofty dirge ... so
plucky ridge
No, we don't
gentle moss
in the case of voting for president
the electoral college can tell you to piss off
and ignore your state block choice of president
because your system is fucked.
plucky ridge
They play politics and rig the game so that they're more likely to get voted in again regardless of what the vote should actually be
Gerrymandering
rough sapphire
but seriously though the representatives don't have to do anything their constituents want
gentle moss
and often don't.
undone berry
That's true in every democracy though. Just most of them have better citizens
lofty dirge
worldwake, if they want to get re elected they do
plucky ridge
Too much anxiety causing in this chat.
I mean keep going, it's not tipping into a bad place
rough sapphire
it's going in circles though
gentle moss
that's why i'm chopping onions \o/
undone berry
Eh - doesn't seem that circular compared to some discussions
lofty dirge
I'm on discord instead of working
rough sapphire
weh
undone berry
as am i
gentle moss
like that one the otherday charlie
oh lord
that was literally a loop
every 5 things said back at square one
undone berry
A loop of genuine insanity
lofty dirge
I'm not in support of ton of US policies, but Step 1 for change is understanding why it works the way it does
plucky ridge
Chocolate or vanilla
undone berry
no context needed
lofty dirge
Chocolate
lofty dirge
so how about that American Handegg draft?
rough sapphire
lmao
undone berry
For a shake Vanilla is waaaay better than chocolate
lofty dirge
Neither, Hemlock, Strawberry or Mint Chocolate
gentle moss
nah, i'm a chocolate shake kinda guy
plucky ridge
I only have the two
lofty dirge
I was guessing Soylent
rough sapphire
have you tried 50:50 yet?
undone berry
50:50?
lofty dirge
which is my lunch
gentle moss
when i make a nesquik i stick like two scoops of vanilla ice cream in there though
and blend it up
pine vector
eggball draft. sooo many wide receivers...
orchid hull
O.o
undone berry
For Nesquik - chocolate is definitely best
lofty dirge
I'm interest in seeing if Tua makes it at all or ends up injured
gentle moss
yeah, i like... 4 tablespoons of nesquik in a pint glass
3/4 pint of milk and 2 scoops vanilla ice cream
blendy blend
delish
sand goblet
It's people @rough sapphire
undone berry
I used to do exactly that semi regularly - but now I don't own a blender
rough sapphire
sounds like one of those shakes kfc make
undone berry
v sad
sand goblet
:>
rough sapphire
gdude has a minion, wtf
gentle moss
you thought of getting one of those hand wand blender things?
rather than a full size one?
sand goblet
I do yep
undone berry
Hand sized one is what I'm used to - I just don't want to buy one when that would be the only thing I'd use it for
oh and soups actually - I could make a soup
hm
thorn snow
You can have both
undone berry
greasy kebab sounds very good right now
rough sapphire
kebab during pandemic... not sure i like those odds
thorn snow
1 Cucumber, 1 Apple or Pear, a few slices of ginger, a bit salt, water ice. Mix and drink
Can also add mango or whatever
undone berry
kebab during pandemic... not sure i like those odds
I've won this gamble a few times now
thorn snow
I prefer apples because it is not as bad for my diabetes
rough sapphire
i had dominoes the other day
undone berry
Thats a smoothie more than a shake
rough sapphire
first time ordering in during the pandemic
gentle moss
tbh if you think the pandemic is the worst risk in getting a nasty kebab
you need to eat more nasty kebabs
some meat tornados are not like the others
undone berry
Dominoes have pretty great procedures
rough sapphire
nasty kebabs keep your immune system topped up with all the bacteria?
gentle moss
:D
rough sapphire
i'd love a shawarma or dürüm, but i don't trust the health and safety standards enough to risk it right now
thorn snow
Honestly, I trust Turks more in that regard than any other culture
gentle moss
tbh i've never got sick from a kebab
but i've told an english pub owner that i can't have gluten / flour
and they've dusted the chips with flour
undone berry
I think the only food I've ever gotten sick from is a janky chicken place
rough sapphire
idiots @gentle moss
gentle moss
ooooh, you should've seen what i made yesterday
rough sapphire
imagine if you had a peanut allergy
and they sprinkle a dusting
total and utter morons
rough sapphire
it's not their responsibility to guess what is ok. you take that seriously
gentle moss
belly pork cooked with chinese 5 spice, sriracha and honey
with some stirfry veg, crackling and asparagus
thorn snow
rough sapphire
mashed potatoes with fruit?
gentle moss
peaches and cream, noice.
thorn snow
Cream of wheat
thorn snow
with tangerines actually
rough sapphire
looks great
gentle moss
it does look pretty nice
rough sapphire
add some cinnamon
thorn snow
Only in Winter
rough sapphire
aren't you german?
thorn snow
so?
thorn snow
I like it without.. if I add cinnamon I also add raisins
It is also without sugar
the fruit is the only sugar in there
rough sapphire
i really want semolina now
thorn snow
100 ml milk, 70g of semolina
rough sapphire
is it powder? @gentle moss
rough sapphire
hah nice
gentle moss
hottest fresh pepper i've eaten before is a habanero
scotch is about twice as hot, but i've never had spares
undone berry
If you eat it, you ought to record you eating it
gentle moss
that seems like it would be a thing i'd do for the benefit of other people
undone berry
maybe future you also gets the urge to watch past you making poor choices
gentle moss
i never regret eating hot food
sand goblet
I often regret it but it's usually worth it
undone berry
I'm pretty tolerant of hot food. But once you're eating food specifically because it's hot, at some level it's a poor choice
undone berry
bloody coronavirus
gentle moss
seems inappropriate to send it now
undone berry
yeah, definitely
sand goblet
Bisk is the guy that brings vindaloo to the potluck and tells everyone it's chicken tikka
gentle moss
i always tell people stuff is hot, i am not evil
some people just have different ideas of what the word "hot" means
blissful ridge
@snow adder lol I just joined here and randomly saw your name
I thought "hmm that seems familiar"
undone berry
unless you know someone very well, tricking them into hot food is a massive dick move
sand goblet
At least you know it's fresh I suppose
sand goblet
Odd
gentle moss
garlic ception
i've seen it grow green shoots befure but never seen them at this state
gentle moss
it feels like every thing i've cooked from scratch recently requires like 3 hours of slow cooking
gentle moss
eh, depends what you want to achieve.
some stuff slow cooking gives you the best result
with my chilli's i use a bunch of liquid (read: wine) and let it reduce
you can do them much faster if you use maybe chocolate or marmite for the richness
cosmic lotus
Yall use marmite for cooking? how does that affect flavour?
sand goblet
marmite is trash imo but can be handy for cooking
gentle moss
yeah, eating it on toast or w/e is different to using it in food
sand goblet
they make a marmite peanut butter now for some reason
rough sapphire
do you guys eat scones
sand goblet
love scones
gentle moss
i do not eat scones, but not by choice
rough sapphire
they look delicious
gentle moss
good with some jam