thats not a problem because all my tables are empty
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
velvet rapids
looks like it's faltering in the last query
But, there's no int values in the last query at all
velvet rapids
And it's not adding the values
async def create_channel(self, ctx, name, description='Perfect', category='Programming'):
These aren't ints
dense stratus
maybe you don't want the () on that call. That might be why you are getting the "int" it is the return value? and it is looking for a function name?
rough sapphire
Yep, that'd be it
velvet rapids
But whats wrong with it?
Is it because it's asynchronous so it doesn't fully wait until it's inserted?
rough sapphire
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/463035241142026251/693208714634723328/unknown.png - Can't be used in 'await' expression
wheat lynx
At least working from home is better than homing from work
gentle moss
you mean like some kind of mom
sand goblet
working from your living space is better than living from your working space
gentle moss
not enough screens imo
undone berry
I've managed to get a chip on my glasses right in the centre of my left lens - I'm going to go fucking insane having to live with it
rough sapphire
Nahh
You will not notice it after some time
Also i can bet that your glasses still looks cleaner than mine
undone berry
I mean
I will notice after some time
I've worn glasses for the last 15 years
I know what its like to have a chip on them
and its fucking annoying
undone berry
I have a microfibre towel next to me most of the time
and microfibre cloths in the car
frosty berry
my brain also filters them out after some time, i rarely notice them until they really make it harder to see things :/
rough sapphire
what is unbound local variable?
sand goblet
new_ticket isn't assigned
rough sapphire
oh, there is a function above that will assign it
sand goblet
not if you just assign it in the function scope
rough sapphire
function will return the value
sand goblet
then you still need to new_ticket = my_function()
rough sapphire
while not won:
new_ticket = make_random_ticket(possibilities)
won = check_ticket(new_ticket, winning_ticket)
plays += 1
if plays >= max_tries:
break
It's there
sand goblet
OK, then you've only assigned new_ticket within the loop
if won is True the first time you try to execute that loop, it'll never be assigned
you should assign it outside of the loop first - maybe to None for example
rough sapphire
You are right, now the warning is gone
solid pollen
C++ people outta here, is there a way to simplify this?
return (PlaneNormal * (Dot >= 0 ? 1 : -1));```probably not
it's pretty damn simple already
Maybe if you pick up the Sign of the Dot
that's what you're essentially doing
@solid pollen do you understand what it's doing?
frosty berry
do you need the external parenthesis?
rough sapphire
no.
solid pollen
Sure I understand, I wrote it haha
I wasn't sure about all the parenthesis
So I can get rid of the external ones?
And is there any other way than using the ternary operator for that?
rough sapphire
you can get rid of them yes
that's probably the best use-case for the ternary operator I can imagine. you're testing for a very simple condition where the end result is binary
that's the natural logical case for the ternary operator
@solid pollen apparently boost has a sign function so if you're using boost, you might find it there
but if you keep asking for the sign in multiple places, just make it a function yourself?
solid pollen
I only need the sign here I think
It is just a small three functions extensions for UE4 because I was too lazy
What is boost?
rough sapphire
it's a C++ library system thingamajig
"Description
Boost is a set of libraries for the C++ programming language that provide support for tasks and structures such as linear algebra, pseudorandom number generation, multithreading, image processing, regular expressions, and unit testing. It contains 160 individual libraries. Wikipedia"
rough sapphire
math ew
pseudo crystal
Lol, but all of programming is a form of math
But yeah, that looks quite a bit cleaner without the external parens @solid pollen
hollow leaf
Boost is ehh, it's sorta bloat, Boost Jam takes a bit to bootstrap 😦
rough sapphire
mods are asleep, post on-topic content
pidfd support is being added in python 3.9
wish they added memfd support next
or I might add it myself
what I'm currently doing is:
import ctypes
call = ctypes.CDLL(None).syscall
fd = call(319, "memfd name", 1) # 319 is the syscall number for memfd_create for amd64
which is not the prettiest thing in the world
dense stratus
downright ugly 🙂
hybrid kernel
python can do syscalls..?
@rough sapphire yes and calls to userspace aswell
If you use for example the socket module, you're using already system calls (hidden).
rough sapphire
my knowledge of the fundamentals are pretty bad. I just know that system calls require specific hooks from the OS to be dealt with. isn't everything else pretty much in the userspace?
but yeah, if you want to do anything with a computer, it has to deal with the operating system at some point since nothing happens without the permission of that.
summer vector
Anyone knows how to change my discord font? its weird now
solid pollen
Did you uninstalled an app recently?
rough sapphire
ctrl+shift+i
search for font , not sure if that is permanent
north abyss
velvet rapids
Hey whats the summer of code thing exactly?
bleak lintel
so you sign up for it and organisations accept candidates
and you do a 3 month open source project
velvet rapids
3 months
rough sapphire
check out https://discordapp.com/channels/267624335836053506/354619224620138496/693829976222466119 the announcement
velvet rapids
I did
bleak lintel
3 months yeah
sand goblet
Seems like terrible timing for an event like this
rough sapphire
@sand goblet why so? it seems like lots of people have extra time on their hands now
sand goblet
Extra time doesn't mean extra capacity to focus
Most people I know IRL are running around like headless chickens
bleak lintel
@velvet rapids https://google.github.io/gsocguides/student/am-i-good-enough
frosty berry
it don't start now
velvet rapids
What?
frosty berry
the work happens mostly in the summer
velvet rapids
Yeah, but I've gotta apply now
frosty berry
yes
velvet rapids
I mean, I'm not that proficient. No university stuff
Everything I've done so far is pure self-learning
frosty berry
don't worry too much about that
being willing to learn and to help is more important imho, as long as you don't start from nothing, surely you can help projects
frosty berry
well, it depends on the project you want to help, they sometime have suggestions of things they'd like someone to take care of
whether you take on that or propose something totally different, what's important is having some kind of plan of how you think you are going to tackle it, it shows you took time to think about the problem and will be able to organise your effort
velvet rapids
And how do I choose an organization?
frosty berry
it's not easy to do such a thing, of course, because there is a lot you don't know yet, and you'll spend time researching more into the project, but having intermediate objectives is very useful
velvet rapids
I've been coding only in python for the last 9ish months. But I haven't dwelled to deep into one sector like database, or web, so I don't know how exactly to choose
frosty berry
well idealy because you like the project and would love to help it
velvet rapids
And can you send a proposal for more than one thing?
frosty berry
some projects have much more candidates than others, because they are very popular, so you have less chances to be selected with them, so you might want to take that into consideration
i think you can
but i didn't follow the details in a few years
we did a couple of years of that with the kivy project
velvet rapids
Ah, alright. So python is out of the way 🤣
frosty berry
some where successful, but some where more stressful for us to handle than we felt was worth, so we didn't take part in recent years
i would expect the online documentations to answer most of your questions though 🙂
velvet rapids
Alright, thanks 🙂
dense stratus
Plenty of help needed in C/C++ out there 🙂
Isn't there a "help wanted" tag or something on github to search out projects looking for helpers?
open flame
What is a decent 4K monitor on a budget? I am not wanting to spend an arm and a leg. Given that I have and will be working from home more, I need an upgrade from my current monitor.
rough sapphire
@open flame how many inches
I was looking to buy a good one too and my budget was around 1000€
open flame
Around 27 inches.
rough sapphire
I was looking for over 30 inches, depending on what I could find
oh I thought you asked "what is a good budget"
open flame
I just 32 inches is fine. Over that then I know the cost is going to be a bit more than I care.
Under $500.
terse sluice
this is pretty good https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-32UD59-B-4k-uhd-led-monitor
rough sapphire
it has decent ratings on amazon too.. 4/5. not horrible.
undone berry
I think
I might have that exact monitor
No, mine is a 27inch version
The 27inch version is fine, but I didn't love having a 4k screen. I do however, love having an ultrawide monitor
and would reccomend you get one of those
restive ledge
Muhammad Ali vs Mike Tyson?
vast veldt
Does anybody know where to find recent python version statistics? I'm writing a (package? library?) and I'm debating if I should use from __future__ import annotations and only try to support python 3.7+
rough sapphire
Why did some helpers become moderators or admins?
crisp sierra
It's by invitation from the higher staff levels
People who seem to be giving good help in the help channels can be nominated to potentially become helpers
rough sapphire
Ok
crisp sierra
Helpers may become moderators if the staff think they would make a good moderator, and the same for admins
rough sapphire
How do they know?
zinc sail
Staff members are required to receive a brain implant that allows us to monitor their functions at all times, which we pass into an advanced AI to make the determination for us
When that fails, we just use our own judgement based on their activity in the server
oak tangle
It's actually where this emoji comes from: 
that's from when we did lemon
Anyway, yeah, @rough sapphire, we basically just get a sense of people as we interact a lot inside and outside of staff channels and we see each other active all the time.
I don't really know of another way of doing it
rough sapphire
Ok
slate quail
your letter P looks familiar
gusty oar
do anyone know what that tattoo means
sand goblet
far too low res for any computer vision stuff
sand goblet
already found one
gusty oar
where
gusty oar
ah thanks 😄
rough sapphire
@restive ledge Ali
gusty oar
its boring yes
rough sapphire
should've gotten "chicken noodle soup" tattoo'd instead
@rough sapphire that would be incredibly bad ass
imagine being at a tough bar and everyone’s showing off their tats and you just show that one
rough sapphire
based on my limited knowledge of chinese i can confirm that, if that top character is a slightly weirdly written 你 and not some different character, that is just "you and me" in chinese
nothing particularly interesting
compact marsh
No Category:
help Shows this message
Type !help command for more info on a command.
You can also type !help category for more info on a category.
No Category:
help Shows this message
Type !help command for more info on a command.
You can also type !help category for more info on a category.
lime bison
looks like we have a self-bot here
royal lakeBOT
Command Help
compact marsh
No Category:
help Shows this message
Type !help command for more info on a command.
You can also type !help category for more info on a category.
!ban 212241077695021056 Self bots are a violation of the Discord Terms of Service
royal lakeBOT
:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @compact marsh permanently.
bronze root
never thought that I'd ever see a true self bot lol
rough sapphire
that's not just a selfbot, that's a userbot
crisp sierra
for maximum stealth, make your userbot respond to the same commands as the main bot of the server you're in
crisp sierra
oh, interesting
how do you leak your user token accidentally though... that sounds hard.
like a lot of effort to take in order to mess up that bad
vestal briar
👁️ IM WATCHING YOU
thorn snow
@crisp sierra --help --version
syntaxaire --version
At least the mods seem to be real
thorn snow
German Police joined a balcony party
In honor, they played "I have police"
It's a parody song, but still. Awesome reaction.
oak tangle
Hey @night bone, you should have access to the server
rough sapphire
What what the name of a program do write a bootable SD CARD (eg. for raspberry pi). I liked one - it's name started on "E" i think and it was rather small, modern box in the middle of a screen with a few big buttons.
etcher
thank you
sand goblet
oh my god why does the xbox app not auto-update games
or notify of updates
I was gonna play outer worlds today but there's a 25GiB update that I'll have to do overnight
oh my god, and now origin won't let me pause updates
opaque anchor
I finally got code like this to work:
/print(*<:3, *<:3, *<:3, *<:3, *<:3)
Python equivalent
for a in range(3):
for b in range(3):
for c in range(3):
for d in range(3):
for e in range(3):
print(a, b, c, d, e)
Or this
s = /(. 1 / (# + #1))(*<:1:4, *<:1:4)
Python equivalent
s = []
for i in range(1, 4):
for x in range(1, 4):
s.append(1 / (i + x))
seq = /(4 > ^[1, 2, 3, 4, 5] > 1);
I got this to work. Python equivalent
seq = list(filter(lambda i: 4 > i > 1, [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]))
you wot m8
opaque anchor
I'm working on an esolang (esoteric language)
rough sapphire
you're creating your own language or
opaque anchor
Yep
For now it's just a fun side project
And it has a lot of tools to make coding a bit easier
Eg. map = 1 + *[1, 2, 3, 4]
I'm going to keep working on it
opaque anchor
Ok
Here's how to break out of a nested while loop
while (true) {
c = 0;
while (3 > c) {
c = c + 1;
print(c);
if (c == 3) {
$2.break();
}
}
}```why not labels
opaque anchor
Wdym?
sand goblet
well for example in your case
OuterLoop: while (true) {
c = 0;
while (3 > c) {
c = c + 1;
print(c);
if (c == 3) {
break OuterLoop;
}
}
}
that's how Java does it
opaque anchor
You can do a similar thing in my lang
while (true) {
OuterLoop = $;
c = 0;
while (3 > c) {
c = c + 1;
print(c);
if (c == 3) {
OuterLoop.break();
}
}
}```aren't you redefining that every iteration?
sand goblet
Java's labels also support continue btw
opaque anchor
while (true) {
if (OuterLoop) {
OuterLoop = $;
};
c = 0;
while (3 > c) {
c = c + 1;
print(c);
if (c == 3) {
OuterLoop.break();
}
}
}```And btw, $ is equal to $0, which is the current scope
You could technically also do
while (true) {
if (OuterLoop) {
OuterLoop = $;
};
c = 0;
while (3 > c) {
c = c + 1;
print(c);
if (c == 3) {
OuterLoop {
break();
}
}
}
}```Ok, here is a breakLayers function
breakLayers = (n) -> {
c = 2;
scope = 0;
while (n) {
scope = $c;
if (scope.manager == while) {
n = n - 1;
};
c = c + 1;
};
scope.break();
};```It will break out as many layers as n
If n is 1, it will break out of the first while loop
If n is 2, it breaks out of the while loop outside of the first one
Etc
Here's returning from the outer function
f = -> {
inner = -> {
$1.return(5);
};
inner();
};
print(f())```Honestly, the idea of scope control is pretty good to me
So
f is defined as an outer function
And inside of f is inner, which is another function
Inside of inner, it grabs the scope $1, (the outer function scope), and makes it return 5
So when you call f(), it calls inner(), and inner makes f return 5
Here's a Python equivalent (sort of?)
def f():
def inner():
makeOuterFunctionCallReturn(5)
inner()
print(f())
>>> 5```
primal spruce
makes "what" return 5? the outer function?
opaque anchor
Yep
primal spruce
interesting
opaque anchor
$0 is the current scope, $1 is the scope above that
However, if statements and while statements have there own (dependent) scopes
primal spruce
I'll admit, im not a fan personally, apologies. 😛
opaque anchor
It's an esolang, so it's just a fun idea
opaque anchor
It's a language I'm making, called Quazi
opaque anchor
It's an esoteric language that has a few main principles
- Everything is an Expression
- Full Execution Flow Control
- Full Evaluation Flow Control
- Full Scope Control
- Features to help make your code easier and quicker
1 + *[1, 2, 3] is map(lambda i: 1 + i, [1, 2, 3]) in Python
solid pollen
I see, it looks fairly good, but I’m not a fan of $1, it is pretty unclear
wanton glacier
you say that, but is that result a generator?
primal spruce
that seems like a pretty powerful feature
opaque anchor
Nope, that result is a regular function output
primal spruce
once you get used to the syntax, i could see the brevity being very useful
rough sapphire
that already exists through numpy
opaque anchor
Sure, Akarys. Do you have another idea?
opaque anchor
1 + *[1, 2, 3] is a map object
rough sapphire
but I suppose you mean map in general
opaque anchor
And yep
Not just numbers, it works for other types
You can also do magic like this
solid pollen
Hmm, maybe something like $above to make it more obvious, I don’t know
opaque anchor
print(*<:5, *<:4)
wanton glacier
is it memory efficient?
wanton glacier
maps
opaque anchor
I think maps are decently efficient
I'm not entirely sure though, since this is just a concept
wanton glacier
ah cool
opaque anchor
The reason I want scope control is so that people can have special functions that change the environment
In Python you can't create a function that breaks out of the caller's loop, but in my lang you can
primal spruce
im guessing the idea is you want the ability to call even further up scopes, $2, $3 and so on
opaque anchor
That already exists
But yep
You can also loop through scopes to only target a specific type
primal spruce
intuitively, im too used to having the outermost layer as 0, so it's a bit weird trying to think of 0 as the innermost scope, and outer being incremented, but i suppose that's a compromise that has to be made
opaque anchor
breakLayers = (n) -> {
c = 2;
scope = 0;
while (n) {
scope = $c;
if (scope.manager == while) {
n = n - 1;
};
c = c + 1;
};
scope.break();
};```It's a cool idea but it does seem a little bit pointless
opaque anchor
Maybe a little
wanton glacier
I mean how often do you need to use a scope several layers up
primal spruce
esolang rak, everything goes!
opaque anchor
This is just a concept, but maybe for libraries
Maybe specific libraries would want to implement simple functionality
wanton glacier
@primal spruce talking of esolangs... https://repl.it/@rak1507/Brainfuck-stuff
primal spruce
as long as the language makes no pretences about what it's trying to achieve, i have no issues with it. Just, trying to think of a workaround for the scope numbering, though maybe that's just me
opaque anchor
Also
primal spruce
perhaps $-1, $-2, though that just seems redundant
primal spruce
nothing, i intuitively like negative more if the innermost is 0, but then the question you'd face is this:
primal spruce
since there are no "go down one level" scopes, (i assume!, logically doesn't make sense to me) then why even have negative numbers
oh!
okay, you're thinking of it that way, gotcha
primal spruce
i was thinking the flip mirrored numbering, just since it makes more sense to me personally
where $-1 is just "one level up" and so on
opaque anchor
I think $1 being "one level up" is better
primal spruce
agreed. though i wish it was $0 😛
opaque anchor
$0 is the current scope
primal spruce
are you going for zero indexing or 1 indexing?
perhaps the current scope could be "just" $ if you wanted to use 0
opaque anchor
Eh, that might get confusing
primal spruce
kk. i mean, this isn't really how im used to thinking of trying to access scopes anyways
opaque anchor
By the way
primal spruce
i'll leave that for you
opaque anchor
Here's something esoteric
if (x) {
...
}``` is equal toif (x) ({
...
})```which then gets converted to (by the if function code)
if (x, {
...
})
So, that means other functions could also define code block calls
Also @primal spruce one more thing
For functions, the caller's scope is always the one above, even if it isn't actually
That way, functions can influence the scope of whatever called them
I'm going to keep working on this for now
plucky ridge
That's part of the thrill
plucky ridge
It's a learning experience
You can't expect to go into it to make something perfect
quaint rivet
something very crappy is better than nothing, surely. and you will most definitely learn some things along the way.
plucky ridge
These jams are just as much about learning how to make something cool as it is actually making a cool thing
If that makes sense
quaint rivet
nothing happens until you make it happen 
lime gazelle
Big brain time, right there
quaint rivet
lime gazelle
FortuneCookie.mp3
sand goblet
I wonder how feasible it is to build iOS apps without a mac by making use of CI services that have mac VMs
like eg I know kivy supports iOS, but you'd still need to be able to sign your app and upload it to the app store
gentle moss
[16:01] Mr. Hemlock: You can't expect to go into it to make something perfect
this is true of every creative project
your end result is going to look different to what you imagined
plucky ridge
For the better, more often than not
Things morph and grow as they're being made
Trying to hold them to a specific preconceived mold would only hinder the creative process
lime gazelle
yeah, but that assumes you have the skills to make something in the first place
plucky ridge
You develop them as you go
lime gazelle
lime gazelle
The only gaejam I went to said "you don't learn as you go here, you just do stuff"
plucky ridge
If artists didn't try new things all the time, they would stagnate
Not really how our community works
You know that
plucky ridge
You just have to assume that you're going to have to learn something to do any project
May be a little, may be a lot
And honestly, there's no risk in this
If you don't end up with anything, well at least you tried and hopefully learned in the process
No entrance fee, no huge burden
Just a fun community trying to spark creativity
lime gazelle
Aye!
lime gazelle
I kinda want to try piano again but
a) my parents will give me shit for it since I tried once and I dropped it super fast
b) my hands are crap. I tried to have hand and finger independence but I couldn't so I got frustrated and quit
quaint rivet
whats stopping you from trying? im sure theres a cheap electric one somewhere
lime gazelle
Oh I have one
It's just, I gave up on it once. I'll probably give up on it if I try again
Same as art.
rough sapphire
hmm which reminds me that I should probably go pick up my guitar
there's a lot of ladies to woo
🤸♀️
🎸
lime gazelle
I tried once and gave up. Should I try a second time? Why do I even want to try a second time if I know I won't stick with it?
sand goblet
Get back in yer quarantine box
lime gazelle
complez thought
sand goblet
Try guitar? Why not?
rough sapphire
@lime gazelle that's a loser's thought pattern
lime gazelle
piano
sand goblet
Oh, piano
lime gazelle
@rough sapphire I am a loser
sand goblet
I can piano
lime gazelle
OwO you can do a piano?
rough sapphire
the thought pattern should be "I can fail as many times as I want and still succeed"
sand goblet
I did 7 of the 8 grades they have in piano here
lime gazelle
I have a shitty piano my uncle gave me but I couldn't stick with it
sand goblet
So like technically I'm qualified I guess
lime gazelle
Woah
rough sapphire
@lime gazelle I stopped going to the gym. my trainer thought I "failed" - fuck that noise, I didn't fail, I just didn't feel like doing it back then. he wasn't thinking straight.
lime gazelle
You're good at so many things
sand goblet
I wouldn't say I'm particularly good at it
lime gazelle
@rough sapphire I go to the gym. I won't quit because I spent 400 quids.
But piano is different. Maybe I don't like it.
Maybe I don't like anything.
rough sapphire
@lime gazelle the point that I'm trying to make is that we can "fail" as many times as we want. there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
as long as you keep doing it again
sand goblet
Yeah, it's only failure if you give up
rough sapphire
exactly
lime gazelle
I did give up
lime gazelle
On so many things
lime gazelle
I tried guitar a bunch when I was younger, never stuck
Arts, never stuck
coding, it's my job but not a passion
sand goblet
Well you're here on a programming server, so you probably at least have a more technical mind
Personally I can't really do anything arty
lime gazelle
Fuck this, I'm not a musically talented person.
sand goblet
Well you're certainly better than the average
Haha, I can sing too
Just not in a way most people want to hear
But fuck it, it's fun
plucky ridge
Don't compare to others. It's a trap
Just try stuff and have fun
And if it's something you really really really want to learn how to do, work your tail off
Otherwise ignore it and have a sandwich
lime gazelle
But I don't know what I want to do.
Guess I tried it, quit it so I don't want to do it
plucky ridge
Yep. And there's nothing stopping you from coming back to it if you ever get the urge again
lime gazelle
Shame, knowing I'll quit it anyway..
terse sluice
well, you won't get anywhere with that mindset
lime gazelle
It's just, logic
I'll go back to the BSP thing I was trying yesterday. After dinner.
There's a quote I really like from an artist that said: "when someone with a creative soul sees/hears something they truly like, they want to replicate it"
I haven't had that 
plucky ridge
Depression isn't logic
It's your brain chemicals not properly mixing/being made
Accepting it and letting it win doesn't help you
And there's nothing wrong with not being creative
lime gazelle
lime gazelle
Yes, I know, but it sucks not having a hobby that's interesting
Hobby make people intersting
plucky ridge
Depends on the hobby
lime gazelle
Hobbies make people noy want to commit die
plucky ridge
I'd argue that stamp collecting does not make one interesting
lime gazelle
Not to non stamp collectors
but to stamp collectors, yes
guess I'll code for the rest of my life
plucky ridge
Could make potholders
That was always fun
You get those bands of fabric and those like... I can't remember what they're called
The frames with the fingers
lime gazelle
Yeah, I know
lime gazelle
I.. don't know. I don't know.
I tried music as a kid, I loved music when I was younger, but I could never play an instrument
Probably not my path. I'll find something else.
solid pollen
Well, if you don't have an instrument at your home, it will be hard to get one anyway now
Have you tried drawing?
lime gazelle
I have a piano
I tried drawing
I tried guitar
I tried photography
I tried writing
Nothing stuck
solid pollen
I don't know.. Baking?
solid pollen
Haha, that's a team effort!
lime gazelle
yup, takes two people to have a sweet
anyway, idk. Maybe I don't have interests and that's it
Idk why I'm trying so hard.
probably not the right place to ask either, I'm sorry
solid pollen
That's ok
You said you didn't liked graphics?
Maybe you'd like manual stuff more?
lime gazelle
I liked pixel art, it looks very nice
but most thing look/sound nice
piano sounds very nice, violin too, guitar is super sexy and drums is just very fun
solid pollen
I don't think the question is what is looking nice, but more what you'll like doing, right?
lime gazelle
Then... nothing?
I tried pixel art, got frustrated and quitted it
same for everything on that list
thorn snow
@lime gazelle You like drums? Here are drums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNu6FmaUIB0
lime gazelle
@thorn snow that's interesting, thanks for sharing 
rough sapphire
@lime gazelle creating habits isn't the same as starting them
if everything is meh, then that's a pretty standard symptom of depression
rough sapphire
I don't know you as a person, at all, and I don't want to sound like I'm assuming anything
my suggestion is consider some activities that will balance your lifestyle
what I mean is
say you're inside on your PC all day
an activity away from the computer, and ideally in a separate environment
as someone that spends a lot of time on my computer, I found I really enjoyed running with music, and indoor rock climbing
lime gazelle
It is, but it's also kinda not so meh
It's personal improvement
I don't do it for fun, but to not die obese
rough sapphire
i knew of people that go rock climbing on rest days btw
in terms of instruments, that's going to come down to discipline imo
do you have a creative hobby?
baking, writing, photography, painting, singing etc
lime gazelle
I don't, no
I tried a bunch of them, I never sticked with anyone
anything?
I tried writing, drawing, playing piano, playing guitar, photography
rough sapphire
what causes something to stick usually?
lime gazelle
I always got frustrated and quitted
Nothing? I do programming for work, but when I was in school I never did it on my own
rough sapphire
push through the frustration if you're otherwise enjoying it, everything is going to have a learning curve
lime gazelle
I did it only when required
rough sapphire
programming for a hobby and for work isn't good imo
programming and computer games is a usual pairing, but it's unbalanced
lime gazelle
Yeah, it never was a hobby
I did it in school, now it's my work, but I never had it as a hobby
rough sapphire
I think you need to find something to do away from the computer
lime gazelle
yes
rough sapphire
that isn't binge watching tv
lime gazelle
I don't watch tv
rough sapphire
maybe a goal to work toward is a good idea for you
rough sapphire
(e.g. taking lessons for guitar instead of self-teaching)
lime gazelle
I tried that, my uncle would give me lessons but I wouldn't follow them
rough sapphire
now imagine you had an exam scheduled
lime gazelle
Probably wouldn't study hard enough
I failed my redhat cert because I studied too little
rough sapphire
it's kind of a re-enforcing cycle if you feel like you suck because you give up on things
rough sapphire
it's only true to the limit you let it be true
lime gazelle
And the thought that I might not like something makes me pissed
because It's like, why spend time doing it?
rough sapphire
but how will you know if you like it or not if you don't try?
rough sapphire
you could be on your death bed one day and think back at all the wasted potential
lime gazelle
I know
I probably won't make cool programs or cool music or art or whatever
nd that's fine
but I want to make something
rough sapphire
who says you can't?
have you tried downloading music software and giving it a go?
lime gazelle
No
I think you need an actual instrument to do that
Like
maybe it'll be a gateway drug idk.
sand goblet
You don't
rough sapphire
well at the least it'd be a creative outlet
i can feel you're frustrated
you want something to do, but you also don't want to start
rough sapphire
define "finished"
rough sapphire
but you understand Python don't you?
lime gazelle
I guess? Not on super high level wizardry stuff
rough sapphire
who cares
lime gazelle
Amazon apparently
rough sapphire
loads of people don't get into Amazon
lime gazelle
Yeah, I know, and I don't want to get into Amazon
just saying that people care for mastery
and I can't even do OOP correctly
rough sapphire
🤷
well if you wanna learn OOP we can help with that, but that's an aside to your problem of finding balance in your life
rough sapphire
do you know the concept of mindfulness?
rough sapphire
they're teaching it in CBT a lot, so say you went for therapy for depression... that would be on the agenda
you can download an app for it too
i forget the name
rough sapphire
anyway the core concept, is learn to stop the noise and live in the moment
and then try and be grateful for little things
it changes your mindset
consider, each time you say "I can't" you are re-enforcing that idea and those neural pathways
like if you daydream about your past over and over
lime gazelle
my past is kinda blurry ngl
But yes, I know that attitude makes or breaks something
mindset maybe? better word,m
But yes. I know that. But I also know I don't have anything I like.
rough sapphire
mindset is so powerful
@lime gazelle that's a powerful cognition right there that's defining your reality "I don't have anything I like."
plucky ridge
I know the burden of "nothing interests me." It's one of the big nasties depression can cause
Fought with that for yeeeaaaars. Still do quite often, actually
lime gazelle
@rough sapphire Because I don't. I know I don't
plucky ridge
Plenty of times I'll just end up just sitting
rough sapphire
@lime gazelle it's "true" because you're not thinking of any alternatives, or more like you don't have the imagination to see any alternatives right now, which do exist.
lime gazelle
If it wasn't for work I'd just watch videos all day and get angry at videogames
plucky ridge
Gaming counts as a hobby
plucky ridge
So?
rough sapphire
@lime gazelle and sooner or later you'll get bored of those, or frustrated you're wasting your time. you need balance
@lime gazelle you're already programming. that's something a LOT more than many people have or do.
lime gazelle
@plucky ridge people won't know I ever existed
rough sapphire
are we crossing into nihilism and stoicism now?
plucky ridge
In fairness, most of the world can and will say that
plucky ridge
Poop on a national monument
lime gazelle
rough sapphire
but eventually you will be forgotten, it's inevitable. law of entropy
lime gazelle
Yes, but if I can leave something behind then maybe that will come later
rough sapphire
so what would you like to be remembered for?
rough sapphire
@lime gazelle think about this: cognitions matter. cognitions are the "laws" of how you see yourself and your universe. they are what you think are "true" but are in reality just how you have decided to be so.
wheat lynx
Do you want to be remembered or just feel like you did something useful with your life?
lime gazelle
I guess the latter
rough sapphire
@plucky ridge there are two outcomes when people have a nihilistic existential crisis. you either become freed, or you freak out
plucky ridge
Volunteer at various things.
rough sapphire
I do not find the idea of everything meaning nothing to be particularly freeing
plucky ridge
There's plenty of ways to make a difference out there without having to be "creative" or be the best at something
lime gazelle
I'm not saying everything means nothing
plucky ridge
Sometimes it's the smallest gesture that someone will remember for a lifetime
plucky ridge
I can think of plenty of times where what mattered most to me was just a kind word or a helping hand
lime gazelle
But it would still feel empty, idk how to describe it
rough sapphire
I'm hoping this is a transient state of mind for you Andrea
wheat lynx
Its hard with everybody being in lockdown, but when this is over, just go out and talk to somebody, even if it is just saying Good morning
plucky ridge
I mean it's something I struggled with when my meds weren't in a good concoction
And that took me YEARS to get that finally settled to a (currently) stable spot
plucky ridge
Yeah that happens a lot
You feel like you didn't live up to some sort of expectation
rough sapphire
Too much time to think isn't always a good thing. Remember being a little kid without a care in the world? You were living in the moment. Do that. Find something like swimming where you only care about swimming for that moment (this is why I suspect computer games is popular)
lime gazelle
I tried swimming too, hated it
rough sapphire
this is such an important mindset to achieve, if nothing else
lime gazelle
I'm scared of swimming
plucky ridge
Fair
rough sapphire
I'm not saying you have to do X exactly
wheat lynx
Have you tried climbing?
rough sapphire
Climbing is amazing
plucky ridge
Parkour!
wheat lynx
lime gazelle
I loved to run around and dance as a kid
rough sapphire
Have you thought about joining a community theatre then?
plucky ridge
That's called being a kid
lime gazelle
I used to sneak in with Brazilian ballerinas and have a blast, parents say
@rough sapphire I considered it in high school but nothing came of it
lime gazelle
Stage fright, not that interested, don't have a car
rough sapphire
stage fright is not a good enough excuse imo
rough sapphire
go with her?!
lime gazelle
@rough sapphire she lives on tbe others side of the country
rough sapphire
aww :/
terse sluice
tech crew for theatre? pit crew?
lime gazelle
Yeah! I guess? Again, maybe music would be cool
rough sapphire
but you will make friends at a community theatre
lime gazelle
That's super hard
wheat lynx
I think the main point is just to go out and do something, anything
lime gazelle
But I might, if I find one
plucky ridge
Staying at home can enforce depressive natures
I should know, that's like
All I do
rough sapphire
it absolutely does. sitting in a rut compounds the rut
lime gazelle
It's not like I have anything to do outside
rough sapphire
nobody wants to hear do X do Y
but it's the truth, you will feel better with a more well-rounded lifestyle
lime gazelle
I know
rough sapphire
maybe not straight away
lime gazelle
that's why I joined the gym
rough sapphire
but you will
plucky ridge
With a more roundhouse kick involved lifestyle
lime gazelle
the gym makes me feel good
rough sapphire
the problem with the gym, is it's routine
and routine isn't good to live in the moment
lime gazelle
I like routine
plucky ridge
Routine isn't necessarily bad
A part of your routine literally could be allocating time to try something different
Go to a different coffee shop, store, etc.
A part of your routine literally could be allocating time to try something different
A part of your routine literally could be allocating time to try something different
Go to a different coffee shop, store, etc.
lime gazelle
Piano wasn't bad after all. I didn't hate it. I hated not being able to plsy
rough sapphire
what's the last thing that you became enthusiastic about?
lime gazelle
maybe it's the same.
plucky ridge
your mom
lime gazelle
@rough sapphire uh... nothing in particular?
plucky ridge
Sorry, I couldn't help myself
rough sapphire
i don't care how far back you have to go
lime gazelle
Uh
Guess the first time I used ansible it was pretty exciting
I almost cried
not joking
rough sapphire
so you're task oriented?
lime gazelle
uhh..when I drew a shitty deku, I was very proud of it
plucky ridge
Legos
lime gazelle
I guess?
plucky ridge
Get big ol' Lego sets
plucky ridge
Or that
rough sapphire
baking sounds like an easy thing to try too
plucky ridge
When in doubt, bake it out
lime gazelle
I do it with my dad sometimes
lime gazelle
plucky ridge
Har har
lime gazelle
we should try, if he's uo to it
plucky ridge
There's always the family tradition of murdering a drifter and hiding the body
I mean what?
lime gazelle
Uuh..I.. don't know
wheat lynx
So thats not just my family!
plucky ridge
You should take gym selfies
lime gazelle
@plucky ridge god no, I don't have a nice body
rough sapphire
being praised = it's not enough to praise yourself, i understand that
plucky ridge
It's not about having a nice body
lime gazelle
I'm fat.
plucky ridge
It's about seeing the hard work you put in
lime gazelle
No selflies until I get rid of it
rough sapphire
so some hobbies with outcomes, like certificates could be great for you.
graded piano lessons, a language course etc
plucky ridge
But you'll have a timeline of progress
lime gazelle
Language I tried, I don't like it
it's not that useful imho
unless you go to the country
rough sapphire
so you'd have a reason to travel?
lime gazelle
@plucky ridge good call. I'll try that, when the gym opens
@rough sapphire I mean, I could travel and speak English
rough sapphire
it's not the same
lime gazelle
True, but I don't feel the need to
I tried, it's not for me
not shitting on the ones that like it
rough sapphire
you want to feel remembered for something
so consider hobbies like filmmaking
maybe it leads somewhere
or script writing
or animation
plucky ridge
Or writing lurid fanfiction
lime gazelle
writing I tried, didn't like it that much
rough sapphire
didn't Twilight start as Harry Potter fan fiction? then 50 shades came from Twilight
lime gazelle
drawing same. Idk if I liked it, but I quitted it more times than I can count
the only thing I tried once and was nope is piano
which is pretty telling
I should give it back actually
plucky ridge
I still think community volunteering could help.
rough sapphire
you could throw it out the window and join @plucky ridge hiding the body
rough sapphire
you need a sense of achievement to feel good about yourself (imo) Andrea
that's the feeling I'm getting from you
plucky ridge
Unfortunately
rough sapphire
nope
lime gazelle
I know, but it feels like I do stuff for the wrong reasons
rough sapphire
stop beating yourself down, and start lifting yourself up
lime gazelle
I'd do art to make people go "wow, that's cool"
plucky ridge
Yeah, self-deprecation is my schtick.
lime gazelle
and it feels wrong
rough sapphire
because you feel guilty
who cares
altruism can be considered ultimately selfish
just have some self love and do what makes you happy
even if it's for 5 mins
lime gazelle
I don't know what makes me happy
plucky ridge
Who can self love in only 5 m- oh right
rough sapphire
that's your journey
lime gazelle
Maybe I'll give piano a spin.
plucky ridge
Little bits at a time
rough sapphire
well, you said you hated that, so i'd put that on the backburner for the moment
rough sapphire
you know the concept of 1000 hours?
lime gazelle
yes
plucky ridge
The amount of hours I put into Team Fortress 2
rough sapphire
so enjoy the journey as well as the result
lime gazelle
But I couldn't even do the easy shit
rough sapphire
that's why professionals make $$$
plucky ridge
If you expect to be able to just do it because you're older then you're going to be discouraged every 2 seconds
You have to just knuckle down and practice
lime gazelle
I don't
plucky ridge
But you partially do
You yourself said that you got discouraged because you couldn't play
You have to get over that hump
lime gazelle
Wdym no.
plucky ridge
Like at all
rough sapphire
you may have quit because you sucked and lacked discipline
lime gazelle
you like something, you do it
plucky ridge
You can get discouraged from doing something you like no matter what
You associate it with failure or not being good, you start to get eaten from the inside
You have to fight that
rough sapphire
You can get discouraged from doing something you like no matter what
@plucky ridge and if you change nothing, eventually you're gonna get bored of programming and computer games
plucky ridge
Make yourself want to be better
lime gazelle
I am already bored of programming and computer games
plucky ridge
Then set a schedule
rough sapphire
you need to round out your lifestyle
lime gazelle
but programming is my job, so it's naturally boring
plucky ridge
You like routine, make it into your routine
rough sapphire
make a list of 10 things you're going to try
plucky ridge
Don't let yourself weasel out of it
rough sapphire
and stick to for at least a month
plucky ridge
There is no "I don't want to do that today"
You just do it
Unless your hands are broken or you're dying, you play
plucky ridge
Because otherwise you're letting doubt win
rough sapphire
here's some for you:
- rock climibing
- writing
- making music
- dance classes
- community theatre
- photography
- baking
- a month of foreign cuisine
plucky ridge
If you keep telling yourself you're going to, you will
But if you put in a little effort, you'll do it
You have to make the change
We can sit here and talk you ear off day after day, but you have to do it
rough sapphire
what's the worst that can happen if you change your mindset, really?
plucky ridge
That's why I'm telling you to add it to the routine
Repetition makes a difference with depression
lime gazelle
I know..
plucky ridge
Because you reach a point where you'll zombie through
And even that counts towards practice
You just can't let yourself lose
Set an alarm
A really REALLY annoying one
Until you play
rough sapphire
painting and drawing are good indoor activities away from the computer
lime gazelle
Okie!! I'll try!!
plucky ridge
I'm holding you to that
lime gazelle
let's have the blind godess decide what I'll try for a month
plucky ridge
By the admin powers invested in me
rough sapphire
Can we somehow peer pressure her into this?
plucky ridge
I mean
lime gazelle
plucky ridge
I can temp ban at a certain time until she tells me when she's done it
lime gazelle
Do I come off as a girl?
plucky ridge
And if she lies to us well
rough sapphire
are you not a she?
lime gazelle
Technically, no
plucky ridge
Who am I to say otherwise
rough sapphire
all i have to go off is an avatar and name
lime gazelle
Andrea is unisex here
rough sapphire
this is true
lime gazelle
avatar is supposed to be male
plucky ridge
Mom usually isn't
rough sapphire
"Mom" is fem
plucky ridge
Oh right, I forgot people can use the !remind command in there
plucky ridge
If you can't think of what to write, just start writing anything. What you're thinking at that moment, motor memory in your hands, just anything
Sometimes that can spark stuff and even if it doesn't you're at least getting things down on paper
And you could always use actual pen and paper
lime gazelle
I feel compelled to cheat and reroll, but I won't
how does the remind command work?
plucky ridge
If you feel that way then that means there's something in your list that you'd prefer.
!remind <amount_of_time> <what you want to be reminded about>
plucky ridge
Fair enough
plucky ridge
Let me look
lime gazelle
Thanks for the help
plucky ridge
It's why I'm here
lime gazelle
Doesn't doing something everyday lead to burnout?
plucky ridge
It can, but that's usually when it's long, constant hours doing so.
Which is why I suggest 15 minutes at a time to start
When it's in those sectioned chunks it's just part of a routine
vestal briar
Time to learn java
vestal briar
Want to make some plugins for my mc server, that's the reason
plucky ridge
Kotlin?
lime gazelle
Oh yeah, Java is the number one cause for decs committing die
vestal briar
Why kotlin for minecraft?
lime gazelle
kotlin is nicer