because it was a dumb platform trying to be pretentious
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
gentle moss
rough sapphire
the test was also rigged
wind karma
gentle moss
do browsers even support FLAC playback?
sand goblet
Chrome does
wind karma
this is completely irrelevant
But dont you hate the fact that no matter how good of a backend dev you are, a good frontend designer is what attracts people
By definition it should work like that, but it is annoying
undone berry
Not really - being a good backend dev isn't really that important in a lot of cases. Making things people can use is important in the vast majority of cases
wind karma
There are people who put x5 more time on backend systems
And they don't get praised at all
undone berry
why should they?
what matters is the value of what is produced
No one gives a toss if you made some process 10% more efficient
wind karma
I know, that is why I said by definition it should work as it does now
frosty berry
@sand goblet i believe it's perfectly normal
sand goblet
yeah, I think that's true
velvet rapids
hey
anyone worked with the dialogflow api?
It just keeps spamming me when I say something lmao
I need to stop the program for it to stop
sand goblet
sounds like your bot is seeing its own messages
velvet rapids
Thats what I thought
But I have this
if self.bot.user in message.mentions or message.channel.id == self.bot.bot_channel_id:
Unless... ah, I'm running it in the bot channel maybe thats why
velvet rapids
if self.bot.user in message.mentions or message.channel.id == self.bot.bot_channel_id and message.author is not self.bot.user:
i didn't need to be convinced, but i just listened to the A B and X versions of the first song, switching at various places, and i'm still convinced this not just hard, it's impossible
velvet rapids
(self.bot.user in message.mentions or message.channel.id == self.bot.bot_channel_id) and message.author is not self.bot.user
Thats how it would be processed right?
sand goblet
I don't know if an identity check will work there
given the difference between guild member and user objects
velvet rapids
still happens
if self.bot.user in message.mentions or message.channel.id == self.bot.bot_channel_id:
if message.author is self.bot.user:
return
So you were right
sand goblet
then yeah you'll need to not use an identity check I guess
frosty berry
same, bose quiet comfort II, maybe not the best out there, but i believe they are decent
anyway, audiophiles are the bane of humanity 😛
sand goblet
:>
gentle moss
they go to unnecessary extremes for negligible to no gains
wind karma
What are your thoughts on airpods?
gentle moss
i've never liked the shape of that shit
wind karma
well fuck
terse sluice
they're good for portability, but don't sound great
gentle moss
apple aren't known for great headphones is it really
terse sluice
ehhhhh
sand goblet
I have a pair of Jabra Elite Active 65ts
gentle moss
beats are awful
sand goblet
they're great
true wireless earphones
although half of the goodness in those is in the software
gentle moss
they glue steel into them to make the cheap plastic feel more like a premium product
wind karma
I can feel an apple-hate coming off you guys
frosty berry
there is much to hate in apple 🙂
wind karma
I genuinely think, aside the cost, that apple products are decent
gentle moss
beats isn't really apple related
terse sluice
nah, i don't hate apple. i have an iphone in fact
pine vector
sand goblet
I don't own apple devices
they're fine
but apple does do a lot of shitty, shitty things
wind karma
Such as?
gentle moss
but apple aren't really an audio device manufacturer
sand goblet
well you were actually here for an example I gave today
gentle moss
people who have been in the game properly for decades know better
sand goblet
if I want to fix that safari styling issue I need to shell out 950 euro for a mac mini
which is apple's cheapest mac
gentle moss
but i mean they do actually make shitty hardware sometimes
sand goblet
just because safari doesn't exist on any non-apple OSes
gentle moss
rather than it just being awful developer support
wind karma
Actually apple just released an 899$ macbook air
pine vector
but think of the fans you'll acquire, g!
rough sapphire
if I want to fix that safari styling issue I need to shell out 950 euro for a mac mini
@sand goblet pssst... hey... vms
wind karma
Greece gov is giving out 800euros to all business owners
Like that is enough to pay for expenses
smh
wind karma
I am greek
sand goblet
if anyone has an ISO, I'm not saying you should send it to me
but goddamn is this project not going to work out without one
wind karma
My family doesn't have debts, but it still is like we pay for rent
gentle moss
it was a joke based around your previous shambles of a government during the financial crisis
plucky ridge
ISO as in...
velvet rapids
I need a good free chatbot api...
wind karma
Well Greek politicians aren't exactly famous for their good situation controls
velvet rapids
You guys know any good free accurate pre-trained chatbot apis?
wind karma
Well there are paid ones
velvet rapids
You guys know any good free accurate pre-trained chatbot apis?
rough sapphire
I’m looking to learn Linux, any resources you guys know of : D
frosty berry
so, the real question, is can you do any of these http://abx.digitalfeed.net/list.lame.html ? i'm trying the 96kbps for a starter, and i'm not confident i'll have good success
the first song i think i had a diff, but the second one, i'm lost
plucky ridge
Is this a like "Can you tell the quality difference" thing?
frosty berry
yeah
plucky ridge
Challenge accepted
Considering how picky I am about audio
This should be interesting
frosty berry
the original one is 320kbps vs lossless, but i'm properly sure this is impossible, so i went to the "easier" ones
plucky ridge
Well yeah, start small
frosty berry
have fun with it 🙂
plucky ridge
I suddenly wish I had headphones
frosty berry
i have, and i really feel like the website is trolling me and it's all the same quality
plucky ridge
On the 320 or the 96?
frosty berry
i want stats of other people, i want to know if anybody is able to hear the diff
yes
on the 96
i really though it would be an easy one
i hope the 3rd song is more noisy, i can't pick up hints on the second one
plucky ridge
Yeah I'm for sure going to have to do this again at home
rough sapphire
Can you do it without headphones or does it not really work
plucky ridge
You can it's just harder to pick up on the subtleties
I'm only on song 3 right now (doing it between bits of work)
rough sapphire
@frosty berry i can easily tell the difference between the samples within the first second of each sample on the 96 test
last one was harder because the song was tinny by itself
frosty berry
interesting, i wonder if my hardware or my wetware is faulty, but i really can't
i've listend to each song dozens of time now, i'm still on hotel california, and i'm clueless
rough sapphire
i'm not using anything particularly fancy in terms of audio equipment, some consumer-grade sony headphones and a 4 euro USB dac
plucky ridge
Some of us are just really really picky
But yeah, Hotel California I could tell by the first cymbal hit
frosty berry
listen to both versions of this symbal 5 times… still nothing :(
plucky ridge
And there's nothing wrong with that either
Everyone is wired differently
I'm just mad this thing is making me listen to Dixie Chicks
Ick
frosty berry
lol
plucky ridge
.... the Dixie Icks
gentle moss
lets have a go then
plucky ridge
I'm going to do the longer test later, but honestly, I'm pretty happy with my results
I knew I had the Eagles one pinned dead on
The second song was so quiet there wasn't really a noticeable difference.
But that was fun, I love stuff like that.
And it's weird, I just sort of.... feel it on some
For Hotel California was an easy mark because I heard that song hundred and hundreds of times and so whenever the cymbal hit sounded like it was even slightly underwater, it was a dead giveaway for me.
But the others eh
frosty berry
ok, i rushed the dixie girls because it felt pointless att hat point, but i'm, uh, surprised
it could be entirely down to luck, though for the first song i did feel like there was a noticeable difference on the "depth" of the sound, i didn't expect to hit 100% on it
solid pollen
What is this?
frosty berry
there are other tests on the page to compare with spotify high quality or not, and lossless services
plucky ridge
128 was considered CD quality, which isn't anything to sneeze at.
undone berry
My car battery died - and I have no jump leads nor do I know anyone with a car. I think I'm actually going to have to knock on a neighbours door. Eugh
primal spruce
sneeze when they open the door
undone berry
oh fuck
I forgot covid-19 was a thing
I guess I won't be knocking on doors - too weird right now
sinful copper
128 being "cd quality" was always questionable, especially on old fixed-bitrate encoders
128 now with modern encoders and VBR maybe
on fixed bit rate and full stereo though?
gentle moss
have you tried bump starting it @undone berry ?
if it's on something flat ish, or rollable down a hill
remember you can also bump start in reverse
undone berry
Fuck bumping it. I live next to a Polish car wash, I'll see if one of those guys will jump it for me for £10
sinful copper
you have to get up to like 30 to bump start an automatic in forward iirc
pine vector
- except in heavy traffic. 😄
undone berry
Traffic is a bitch with a manual
gentle moss
get stronger legs
pine vector
well, swole left calf at least.
gentle moss
clutch calf
velvet rapids
module.exports = async (stimulus, context = []) => {
if (cookies == null) {
// we must get the XVIS cookie before we can make requests to the API
const req = await superagent.get("https://www.cleverbot.com/");
cookies = req.header["set-cookie"]; // eslint-disable-line require-atomic-updates
}```
How do I do this in py async def func(stimulus, context=None):
if context is None:
context = []
...
I mean, like get the cookies from the site
sand goblet
well you'll probably need aiohttp
velvet rapids
const req = await superagent.get("https://www.cleverbot.com/");
cookies = req.header["set-cookie"]; // eslint-disable-line require-atomic-updates
they have documentation
velvet rapids
Will requests work?
velvet rapids
Okay
Thanks
Never worked with any async but dpy
from pprint import pformat
from aiohttp import web
import asyncio
async def get_cookies():
async with aiohttp.ClientSession() as session:
async with session.get('https://www.cleverbot.com/') as req:
print(resp.status)
print(await resp.text())
How do I run the function?
grave phoenix
Doesn't aiohttp uses something like cookie jars?
@velvet rapidshttps://docs.aiohttp.org/en/stable/client_advanced.html#custom-cookies
velvet rapids
How do I get cookies from the site?
rough sapphire
@plucky ridge 128 is actually really easy to tell the difference with. Anything 200~ and higher is a lot harder.
sinful copper
i remember back in the old days, recoding my MP3s to 32 and 64kbps mono to fit as many as possible on my 128 MB mp3 player
rough sapphire
any status above 400 is bad right
Or is it 300
like checking the status of a website
sinful copper
300 is redirects, 400 is client side errors [i.e. errors that the server blames on the client, including asking for a file that doesn't exist], 500 is server side errors
they're grouped by the first digit
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_status_codes for more details
rough sapphire
@sinful copper thanks dude, you da bomb
gentle moss
day 37: woke up at 7:30am. girlfriend was missing. presumed to be trampled to death in her quest to find toilet paper.
clear plume
F
gusty oar
my anxiety about virus is increasing every day. (because of china)
they should be punished
people die everyday because virus
i don't want to blame no one but world getting worse everyday
topaz aurora
I mean honestly, the entire thing has blown into massive proportions that it actually feels extremely surreal
gusty oar
everything seems surreal actually :d
tulip palm
it still hasn't dawned on me that yesterday might be the last time i'm in school for half a year
topaz aurora
Just last week I was joking around because the city where my school is located at still hadn't suspended classes
Then literally when I get home that night I find out it was my last day of class
tulip palm
@undone berry i'm in year 12 but i was supposed to be doing my A-level maths exam this year
undone berry
That kinda sucks - probably just means more exams next year
12 is probably the most unlucky year
tulip palm
the year 13s have been fucked up by the education system
undone berry
Have they said what they're doing for exams yet?
Because if its predicted grades - some are super lucky, some are just fucked
tulip palm
exams are cancelled, and students are to be getting predicted grades.
undone berry
Has the predicted grades thing been confirmed?
tulip palm
yes, i believe so
the director of my sixth form seemed pretty set on that when i asked him yesterday afternoon
undone berry
Yeah, that sucks then
tulip palm
at first i initially thought (and dreaded) that i would have to take the maths exam next year instead of getting a predicted grade (or even having the exams pushed back to november or something), but the school is just giving me a predicted grade as normal since i was already registered to do this exam and it's best to get the maths content out of the way now rather than having to revise the content after a year of having no lessons on it.
undone berry
Well, the government/UCAS has a lot of say over that. They might just put no provisions in place for people in your position, and say if you want the A-Level, you gotta sit the exams next year
tulip palm
that's true, but from what i've seen, the grades offered this year are mostly at the schools' discretion
so we'll just have to see how it turns out.
i would much prefer to get a predicted grade over having to do the exam in a years' time.
it seems unreasonable to have us sit the exam later though
if i've been registered to do an exam this year, then i expect to get a qualification this year.
i think there would be too much backlash if they took that away from students
frosty berry
@gusty oar cut the crap, don't blame people for a virus that just happened, nobody was ready for it, and almost all governments seems to do the same mistakes, the US and EU countries have even less excuses than China for how they handled it, we had information (late, but still), and we could have prepared better, but people are always going to let catastrophes happen, because they don't care until they are hit.
south korea seems to be the only country that handled it well, i don't know about japan, china really upped their game after the initial lame response, they might be celebrating victory a bit early though, we'll see.
apparently random people are getting assaulted just for looking asian in the US, because people are racist scum that are just waiting for any excuse to target them.
anxiety is not going to help, follow recommendation, wash your hands, don't touch your face, and stay at home as much as possible, that's the best you can do to help, keep informed, but be careful about misinformation, apply a lot of skepticism to things that are not from major health organisations.
primal spruce
Very well said.
sand goblet
Totally agree
China isn't doing as well as they say they are, obviously
They lied for SARS and as far as I've seen, they're lying now
But that doesn't matter at the moment
Italy fucked up
Most of Europe is doing okay though
That's North Korea, my dude
wind karma
oh wait
sand goblet
Haha
sand goblet
All good
plucky ridge
Biiiiiiiig difference
sand goblet
Yeeep
frosty berry
i do feel france is very late in its response, as of now, we are still on the same track as italy
wind karma
You are from France?
frosty berry
yes
wind karma
Ooh nice
frosty berry
though i currently live in the netherlands
wind karma
Okay, I am from Greece. I must say that they are handling pretty good
frosty berry
how so? are people staying at home? are they testing people widely?
frosty berry
good
pine vector
i was surprised to read that EU was adamant that the Shengen countries couldn't restrict border access. i realize that's a foundation, but this is a large crisis. (not meant from a xenophobic mentality; and exceptions for work should be allowed)
frosty berry
it does seem like a good idea to close internal borders, yes, ideally even traveling between cities in the same country should be forbidden
you want to clusterize as much as possible
hm, not sure that's the best word
gentle moss
compartmentalise
frosty berry
yeah, better
wind karma
Well, let me remind you that countries like Switzerland fall into the Shengen category, imagine telling them to have their borders open and wide to everyone. They tackle with people that aren't that wealthy as if they were animals
In Greece, ship schedules have all been cancelled
We cannot travel to other islands
frosty berry
they don't close the border though, they just make it hard to come and live here
(afaik)
wind karma
Swiss?
frosty berry
yeah
wind karma
Yea its just hard
pine vector
they also have stronger natural borders than most Shengen countries, no?
wind karma
Yea
frosty berry
right
wind karma
The immigrants that aren't wealthy are not treated nice
frosty berry
it's less of a problem these days though, but if you can't buy next to your work because it's too expensive, and you have to live accross the mountain, it's not easy to commute everyday for work and earn the money to live here
(though the price difference can make it still interesting)
wind karma
I have been to Swiss a lot of times, and from my experience people who aren't banking more than 30k per year are not treated nice as citizens
pine vector
i don't think that's unique to Switzerland...
pine vector
i mean, in generalized terms, it happens everywhere.
undone berry
I have Swiss friend, and he seems to think pretty much no one there is making under 40k eur
including shopkeepers et al
pine vector
we're a herding animal, that's part of how we've evolved.
frosty berry
back to work
plucky ridge
I for some reason read "shopkeepers" as "shoplifters"
And I'm just thinking, "Well, yes, they're probably making a profit."
pine vector
troof. Hem speaks it.
wind karma
I have Swiss friend, and he seems to think pretty much no one there is making under 40k eur
@undone berry that is why I was talking about immigrants
They are treated as subhuman degenerates there
undone berry
ah yeah - I've heard the same thing actually
wind karma
Well there is a base in their logic. They are one of the most healthy language, their GDP is one of the biggest in the world.
plucky ridge
Pretty sure the Swiss motto is, "If you're not a cheese, a watch, a pocket knife or one of us, you're not welcome."
frosty berry
a lot of french people, poor or rich, are just as bad with migrants, or any foreigner, sadly 😐
plucky ridge
Or chocolate
plucky ridge
True, tourism money
wind karma
Yup
pine vector
"Take what ya can. Give nothing back." - Disney Pirates (location: The Caribbean)
wind karma
Haha
undone berry
Nazi gold is the big one
plucky ridge
Okay, this is a cross channel thing, but I think I've found my biggest Windows pet peeve
So when connecting to a VPN, if you try to do it from the network connections icon in the task bar, it won't work
Select it from the VPN window in the Settings section?
Works
No reasonable explanation why
gentle moss
never had that
wind karma
I have actually experienced that
undone berry
I've only ever used third party clients for VPNs
plucky ridge
It's only started happening since.... I think 18.09 or something
And it's not consistent
But it's stupid
And I hate it
And it's stupid
Did I mention how dumb it is?
pine vector
do you hate it?
plucky ridge
Little bit
pine vector
how would you describe it?
plucky ridge
Hmmm.....
Stupid, I think
It just makes no logical sense
It would tie into the same process, wouldn't it?
pine vector
and how does that make you feel?
plucky ridge
Grumpy
But thankfully the new cherry vanilla coke is pretty decent
So that's helping
pine vector
pretend therapist role gets old quick.. especially when you can't see me writing in my notepad.
plucky ridge
Oh trust me, I was thinking it
pine vector
🎉
plucky ridge
Full on beard and like fake therapist german accent
wind karma
sommersoft, are you a therapist?
pine vector
for the betterment of humanity, i am not.
wind karma
Hahaha
gentle moss
but you are for the worserment of humanity?
pine vector
ouch
wind karma
https://www.atlantic.net/kalle/
50$ free credit
pine vector
oh, question mark changes the context. also, no, for that point.
pine vector
i did like "worserment". that was a classy move.
gentle moss
what is the antonym of betterment anyway
pine vector
¯_(ツ)_/¯
gentle moss
i guess worsening or something
plucky ridge
The worsenator
clear plume
Can I get it lmao
I’m tryna host a discord bot for someone and they won’t pay for the host server
Yeah lmao
True
Yeah
And she’s broke irl
Na
I’m doing for experience
But I’m not paying for the host
Am I wrong to not want to?
Idk
primal spruce
tell that person, they have a computer, leave it running 24/7
clear plume
Lmao
That would kill their computer
That’s why I’m not hosting from my computer for 24/7
primal spruce
too bad. if they don't wanna pay, they don't get to choose.
clear plume
True
primal spruce
don't budge on this, you're in the right.
clear plume
I guess
Yeah true
But you don’t need to give it to me
It’s yours
No
Lmao
Yeah I found it
I don’t have a credit card so I can’t sign up
It wants a payment method
gentle moss
make sure you closely read the terms of use too
clear plume
Is privacy.com free?
Nice
Once again I don’t have a bank account that my dad would let me connect lol
He would get lidded
*pissed
I have one
I just don’t use it
And I’m not 10
If you can’t tell my dad is a bit controlling
lime bison
@rough sapphire and there are still countries that doesnt allow you to open a bank account if you are younger then 18
lime bison
looks like privacy.com wants us to be US residents
clear plume
I am a us resident
rough sapphire
What is a module that could potentially be used to destroy a computer
I got an old one I wanna do some stuff with
terse sluice
we can't help with that here
plucky ridge
!rule 5
royal lakeBOT
plucky ridge
But more importantly not a thing to be asked here @rough sapphire
gentle moss
how do we know it's for experimenting beyond you telling us?
plucky ridge
Correct. Intent doesn't matter. We have no proof you're only going to do it for that, or that anyone else who gets the code would do it for that
gentle moss
it's just a general standard of not talking about malicious stuff
plucky ridge
So it's easier for us to just not help with stuff like that
No problem, now you know
rough sapphire
Prolly a good idea now thinking about it
plucky ridge
Yarp
vapid bluff
dont need a module for that just use a hammer
gentle moss
don't use a hammer on the hard drive
take that shit apart
you get cool shiny metal (or glass) discs
vapid bluff
new fridge magnets
plucky ridge
So I was taking one apart and tried to plier it to bend it out of the way
Just exploded
gentle moss
they can be glass, yeah
plucky ridge
Didn't expect that in the slightest
gentle moss
glass coated in metal
plucky ridge
I'm pretty sure there's still shards of it in the carpet
rough sapphire
Oh snap you did it over carpet?
plucky ridge
It was more startling than anything
rough sapphire
F in chat
rough sapphire
Well I’m glad I know now lol
plucky ridge
I mean it worked out, since my intent was to destroy it for security purposes
Made my job a wee bit easier
rough sapphire
You used the wrong formula but got the right answer
rough sapphire
stonks
plucky ridge
I've got a little plastic container I put the magnets in so I can easily get rid of staples I've pulled
Works pretty well
You know you're an office worker when finding a way to get rid of lots of little staples is exciting
gentle moss
we have a couple in the workshop for in case you drop screws
plucky ridge
Back in a tic, gotta finish a laptop setup with someone
gentle moss
supplier told us today that he's sold a few thousand laptops this week
with one customer buying ~1000 refurbs with german keyboards
solid pollen
Fuck me
That's all I will learn from this conversation
clear plume
True
buoyant pendant
does anyone know what vectoring is and how it works? our internet service provider switched to that system recently. Up until now we have been paying for 50mb down, but limited to 25mb because of the cable that run along our street (scammed!). now we are able to upgrade our contract to 100mb thanks to "vectoring" (and have.. just need to buy a new router that supports it).
buoyant pendant
no, it really works!
wooden silo
@buoyant pendant I have no idea, but this showed up at the top of google: https://www.capacitymedia.com/articles/2986517/what-is-vectoring-technology
thorn snow
It is basically modulation of multiple frequencies onto a copper cable
With Super Vectoring you can put up to ~400 mbit onto a POTS
It's quite neat, but it loses a lot of speed over distance
Each connection needs a dedicated line card, which also means the number of clients per DSLAM is limited
rough sapphire
FTTH Gang
undone berry
@rough sapphire Drugs are largely overhated because the only people we interact with who we know are users, are abusers
you only see the stereotypical "crackheads", but it is feasible to use them casually with no practical ill effects
rough sapphire
they do cause an addiction though
undone berry
and studies into them haven't even been carried out to a large extent due to their demonisation by Reagan in the 70s
They do, but you can't compare abuse with use
People abuse breakfast cereal and chocolate - but you're not calling for the banning of that
(not that you're actually calling for the banning of anything, just pointing out that lots of things are bad and legal)
rough sapphire
fair enough
but lets say we arent talking about abusing
just take 1 time
does it do any good
for my body
undone berry
Its probably fine, yeah
there are no super indepth studies for a lot of things
But stuff like LSD has been shown to have some degree of positive effects
rough sapphire
i am pretty sure veggies and fruits do you fine, drugs dont even if its 1 time and doesnt feel like a huge harm
they try to medicalize these things. ketamine has been shown to have positive effects on some timeframes on depression and alcoholism for instance. MDMA has been shown to have positive effect on PTSD.
i have heard a lot about its healing capabilities
i do believe
actually
undone berry
I'm not saying replace carrots with cocaine - i'm saying that you can probably take MDMA at a music festival to have some fine without any major ill effects
rough sapphire
even the one that claims that some drugs actually make tumor smaller
@undone berry i know i know, but overall i the culture is shifting nowadays
people advocate for drugs
like they offer
enforce some ideas
undone berry
People advocate for weed, not for drugs in a more general sense
rough sapphire
and its bad
undone berry
at least from what I see
rough sapphire
i know
i get that its harmless
practically
but advicating for it publically
come on
still a drug
its like advocating for drinking, yes most adults do it and yes it feels okay
but advocating for it
not a virtue
undone berry
I think advocating for it to be legal is less about the drug itself, but is more about giving people the freedom to make the choice themselves
rough sapphire
trying to be open minded, but if you had to choose one, suggesting your friend meditation or canabis
most sensible humans will go with the first
undone berry
I have 0 intention of taking any drugs, but I'd still advocate for practically everything to be legal
rough sapphire
everything as in drugs?
undone berry
yes
rough sapphire
what about severe ones
undone berry
I'd advocate for everything being legal and regulated, yeah
undone berry
Thats not even close to being one of the extreme ones
rough sapphire
god do i want to be open minded, but jesus even the most slight drugs may cause an addictiion in the long run
enough of a reason for me to advocate for ban
i seen people waste lifes cause of addictions
of all sorts
undone berry
Making it legal gives the governement far more avenues to end addiction early
rough sapphire
the less resonance drugs get the better
less people will be interested
and easily influenced teeangers are under less risk
i am okay with drugs under prescription
sure
i am only for that
whatever cures your disease
but why push something like that onto people
given that yes if you dont abuse you are good to go
undone berry
Making it legal is in no way pushing it on people
rough sapphire
but there is a chance of you abusing in the future, thats enough of a reason to cut all the supplies
no?
it is
undone berry
no
rough sapphire
charlie
rough sapphire
do we have to compare death rates from obesity and from drug usage
pizza is a bad example
undone berry
The stats there are going to be inherently skewed. You can't discover a lot of drug users, you can very easily discover obesity
rough sapphire
okay i am not sure why you advocate for drugs given that you dont take nor plan to
undone berry
a) some drugs are probably fun to take b) drugs are safer when legal than when not c) there is no ethical reason to ban most drugs
rough sapphire
i'd ban alcohol if it was my choice lol
i am from russia originally
its a huge problem in eastern world
i mean whatever stuff you like to take, its your business, but pushing it onto society
lets be real...
if i was taking drugs, despite how much joy i would potentially be taking out of it, i wouldn't dare to even think about getting someone to try this stuff
i think its more of a questions of morals
undone berry
I'm not saying to someone go try drugs - I'm saying people should be able to try drugs if they want to
rough sapphire
oh thats just being unrealistic charlie
you know if people see government embrace drugs
people will see this as incentive to use them
undone berry
This has been done in Portugal (not to the extent I'd like, but close), drug use is legal - and drug usage has gone down
rough sapphire
look i dont need to look far
i myself
would want to try drugs
if they were legal
unironically
i will try to find the source on portugal
most of the articles that came up on google are radical left wing, i will look more brb
undone berry
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06f1zdn Here's a pretty balanced piece on it
it is audio
but its only 9 minutes
pearl horizon
Yep, was reading back and was going to mention Portugal
Seemed to work out fairly well for them. Denver has seen huge success with it's legalization. Not remembering the other states/countries at the moment, but the response has been pretty good.
I'm all for certain drugs being legal. Others under licensed use, such as part of medical treament/therapy
undone berry
I think blanket legalisation+heavy regulation is the best course of action
pearl horizon
I don't know how I feel about blanket legalisation. Certain things I would not myself ever try, so I find it hard to say one way or the other. But certain things would most definitely need to be heavily regulated
In general, I'm of the opinion that as long as you abide by 'personal use' amounts, don't distribute, follow the over 21 years old stuff, you should be perfectly allowed to do whatever you please with your body
But there needs to be a proper support system in place to help people rehabilitate if necessary. Stop locking people up for sizable portions of their life over victimless crimes, etc
marble sentinel
Drugs can have negative effects obviously, but we shouldn't treat people who turn to them in dire times as criminals or subhuman
So legalization is the way to go, I'd say
pearl horizon
Very excited it seems we may have a legalization for cannabis on the ballot here come November. If we even make it that far
Not sure the exact status on the amendment/bill, but I think I heard it's gonna be in
undone berry
What does that mean?
Does that mean your country might legalise it, your US-state might legalise it, or that the US as a whole might legalise it?
marble sentinel
Not too surprisingly, but still a bit surprisingly, CBD, the non-psychoactive component of cannabis, is federally legal in the US.
sand goblet
legal here in Ireland too
pine vector
well, ONE type of it is. hemp-derived.
marble sentinel
Didn't know that! Although where I live cannabis is legal, so it doesn't really make a difference for me/a lot of people I know locally.
rough sapphire
You know what is legal, but frowned upon? Having a doorknob made out of lego pieces.
😄
Had a conversation a bit ago about it
marble sentinel
LOL wow. I would imagine a doormat made of legos would be more frowned upon.
sand goblet
did you ever just
marble sentinel
stepp EUGH
sand goblet
lick a brass doorknob as a child?
rough sapphire
I'm not saying you're a horrible person, but I'm not going to your house if you invite me @marble sentinel
sand goblet
brass tastes fucking weird, I still remember it
rough sapphire
😄
marble sentinel
lmao well, just be glad that I don't make the doormat-buying decisions around here.
undone berry
I remember licking a brass candlestick
rough sapphire
@sand goblet You did what
sand goblet
but it's also cool because it's self-disinfecting
marble sentinel
All bathrooms should be made entirely of brass, change my mind
rough sapphire
All bathrooms should be made out of bathroom
undone berry
I imagine brass soap dispensers are difficult to make
sand goblet
I think brass doorknobs - when maintained ofc - sterilise themselves in around 6 minutes or so
which is great
but why are they knobs
so inconvenient
undone berry
Silver is also disinfectant, but only if its not tarnished - I assume brass is the same
marble sentinel
Much better than porcelain tiles and bathtubs (and toilets) in these trying times
sand goblet
you ever try to open a door with a brass doorknob when your hands are wet?
yeah, that's right charlie
but silver tarnishes easier
undone berry
Silver is also the most reflective, and the most conductive element - but only when not tarnished
sand goblet
nods
wind karma
Yo, whatsup everyone
terse sluice
hello there
wind karma
Whatsup
terse sluice
i finished the switch from json to a db a few hours ago. wasn’t as painful as i thought, but many-to-many relationships between models are kinda weird
wind karma
Yea I remember when I had to do that
I just installed Webstorm
I think I am gonna get started on React. I have knowledge but I want to perfect it
terse sluice
jetbrains product?
wind karma
Yea
wind karma
Well react is better than Vue, but, at the same time, Vue is way way more straightforward than React
sand goblet
React isn't considered better than Vue when you actually compare them
They more or less do the same job
But some people are concerned about React's licensing
wind karma
I really don't want to get in that argument 😛
sand goblet
Actually React's licensing and ownership were part of why Wikimedia picked Vue over it today haha
wind karma
Yea that is a hard choice to make
sand goblet
Vue and Python feel like they have similar goals
wind karma
Simplicity?
wind karma
Oh I can totally agree with that
sand goblet
So I mean it just makes sense for me to like Vue I guess haha
terse sluice
yeah same here
wind karma
Well it is always to be knowledgeable on everything
React can come in handy for larger scale webapps
wind karma
I have also yet to try out the Angular one
sand goblet
I do not like angular
sand goblet
Real pain to work with imo
terse sluice
i tried angular a few months back and it wasn’t great
sand goblet
Angular has a history of poor documentation and bad design
I doubt that's changed much
wind karma
Hmm
Well Angular is written in typescript, which is js essentially, some people choose typescript over js
sand goblet
So is Vue
wind karma
View is written on js afaik
sand goblet
Or, well, it at least has TS definitions
lost frigate
Ts is superior
sand goblet
I'm using it with TS atm
sand goblet
I like having real types
wind karma
That is also not correct, you can use TS for smaller projects
lost frigate
I know
But I prefer the vanilla JavaScript for smaller projects because less lines of code
wind karma
Sure
I am going to uni next year, first year you are introduced to python and js
laughs in flask
undone berry
Are you going to uni in Greece?
undone berry
oof
wind karma
Since the exams are pushed back to July
and I also want to join the codejam
And like
undone berry
bad luck you - equivalent exams here are just straight up cancelled
wind karma
I have been waiting for the codejam 2 months now, and I will be waiting for the next ones to come
terse sluice
my midterms were during the winter jam haha
wind karma
And our minister of education just announced that although the curriculum will be cut down
undone berry
Its more important to get into uni than to do a code jam
undone berry
I'm curious - what is the uni you want to go to?
wind karma
Like actually learn everything
Well computer science is the field of my choice.
This is the one I am looking to go to
Here is an English version
It is considered if not the best one of the best unis for computer science in Greece
Although I was thinking of going to Scotland
We will see
undone berry
huh - that uni doesn't even appear on the global rankings https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2020/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/name/Piraeu/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats
wind karma
Greece is kind of weird in that part
undone berry
I know a few people at different unis in Scotland, and it seems like a great place to go
wanton glacier
Both
undone berry
Did you go to uni there? If so, which uni?
wind karma
I knowsome people on Scottish unis
wanton glacier
I mean for unis it’s not amazing, but there are good unis
wind karma
But I really can't form opinions based on their input
undone berry
Its pretty amazing
wanton glacier
@undone berry still in school
undone berry
They have Edinburgh, and St Andrews
wind karma
Are you going there Charlie?
wanton glacier
Yeah they’re the good ones
undone berry
No, I'm at some shit tier English uni
wind karma
One of my cousins is going at London City Uni, she says it is good.
undone berry
Bournemouth Uni is my uni - absolute rubbish
wind karma
But she is studying law so I cant take her word for that
Well tbh I just want the damn paper
wanton glacier
Idk what I’m gonna do for uni
wind karma
So I can go and do a masters on AI
wanton glacier
Oh nice
undone berry
I'd never do a masters - either stick with the bachelors, or try to jump straight to a phd
wind karma
I really have no purpose of learning any programming from uni
Only how things work
Then move straight to AI
That is exactly where I am targeted to. Although right now I am just doing web dev projects 😄
arctic garnet
@wind karma Are you - or any of you guys here - concerned about the impact AI will have on employment and the social consequences?
wind karma
Well you can't be unemployed when you are the one making people get unemployed 🙂
lost frigate
^
wind karma
Basically, I am heading to get as good as possible on bleeding edge technologies so I don't get left behind
arctic garnet
I meant concerned about other people's fate...
arctic garnet
That is the promise, I'm not sure it'll deliver on it
wind karma
Some data from researches says that in the span of 15 years there will be an average of 9 completely different and unrelated to today jobs
Well it eventually will
arctic garnet
That number is hardly impressive when you consider how many will be obliterated
A lot of people make a living as drivers
wind karma
Although it might impact a large amount of people
arctic garnet
I heard it's the most common job
wind karma
it still is one job
Well people have to evolve. That is the purpose of species
Scrape that
But it is an inevitable consequence
arctic garnet
Nevermind, Kiwi, you've said enough
wind karma
I take it you are saying we should be stuck on the present, and somehow tinker our way through jobs of today.
That is not how technology works
arctic garnet
Not a luddite, but take it any way you like
wind karma
i.e. Uber is a way for everyone to become a driver. That didnt exist 10 years ago, so the majority of people who wanted quick money would never have that option
Cars did not exist in the old times, people travelled either by foot or by horses
All these have a common factor. Technological progression. This is what made and will make our lives better
Yes, of course, it will kill jobs of today, but only to create new ones
arctic garnet
Atomic bombs didn't exist either and other conveniences aren't convincing evidence that life has improved in general
However, my concern, which shouldn't be yours, is that technology should evolve in a people-centric way
wind karma
Atomic boms are based on the atom, which is a principle that changed how modern physics work.
arctic garnet
Just like everything else, like institutions
And that without paying the price for occasional 'missteps'
Like WW2
wind karma
Technology's scope revolves around evolution, and sole evolution.
Do you actually think scientists will ask the world whether they are ready for a breakthrough? I don't think so.
The AI department, in our case. Is something very, very new
arctic garnet
We'll never be ready for WMDs, that isn't the point
wind karma
I am not sure the scientists or team of scientists who actually manage to build a complete AI system will have drawbacks concerning global unemployment
We will never be ready for wmds. Almost every country has the power to cause massive if not fatal damage to Earth. The thing is that it will not happen, the risk is just too much.
arctic garnet
Alright, Kiwi, best of luck in your career
wind karma
Countries have other, more subtle ways of creating a war. Economic wars are the thing of our era
Right, I am talking with no irony and you seem to have plenty of it
rough sapphire
If you think someone is wrong irony isn't a good argumentation strategy
just saying
wind karma
Well I am presenting facts right now, but they are just not arguing
You presented a theme and now you are dropping it like it is nothing.
arctic garnet
I got the information I wanted. If you interpret my parting words as irony, there isn't much I can do about that
wind karma
🤷♂️
rough sapphire
I assume i haven't read it, but looks like "THE FUTURE OF EMPLOYMENT: HOW
SUSCEPTIBLE ARE JOBS TO COMPUTERISATION" explain what is supposed to happen when sectors like AI start to substitute people
It's an article
topaz aurora
@crisp tangle Regarding the skin, sure
crisp tangle
topaz aurora
Actually made one myself a while back, iirc around December 2018
rough sapphire
yep, think it's 'round that time of the year where i have to reinstall windows
crisp tangle
@topaz aurora send it, i wanna try it
topaz aurora
Unfortunately, it's a private skin of mine 😅 I could send screencaps though
frosty berry
the solution to jobs disappearing is easy, as long as we are still producing wealth, we just need to accept it has to be distributed without the requirement for work
undone berry
Who is the we accepting that? If you look at the US, it seems very unlikely to me that wealth is ever likely to be majorly redistributed without violent action - or without a significant shift in somewhere like the EU
frosty berry
we as a society, but yeah the exact society that must accept that depends on where you live, but it'll have to be global at least in some sense to work
and yes, if people in power prevent it from happening smoothly, it'll likely happen violently
something will have to give
undone berry
Why do you think something will have to give? There is enough wealth in the world that we can have the super rich, and then a majority or significant minority living in poverty
frosty berry
but if nobody has money to buy things, the people selling them won't sell much
undone berry
poverty, but not to an extent that it feels like poverty
frosty berry
i mean, if the amount of jobs diminish significantly, and we keep requiring people working to get any of the significant wealth we collectively produce, then the inbalance will have to be resolved somehow
undone berry
I think you can have consumerism along with the majority living in near-poverty or rubbish standards
The richest would prefer to pay people to dig and fill holes
than to allow wealth to be redistributed
frosty berry
it's a possibility
undone berry
Since the 1910s, people have been saying something has to give - and it never really has (except in Russia/USSR)
frosty berry
but people are not stupid, they'll know that it's just a way to keep them in check, and sooner or later they'll organise, because the inbalance in power is strong, even with modern techn, you can't have a handful of people control millions times more, if the millions realize their power
undone berry
I think people are stupid. Individuals largely aren't, but humans as a herd consistently act against their own interests
crisp tangle
@topaz aurora oki
frosty berry
well, even the US has been much more progressive than now regarding wealth distribution, from the 30s and up to the 80s
yes, here i'm talking individuals
undone berry
The US was in its most reasonable place economically back in the 50s. And then in practically every decade since then, the governments have deregulate banks and industries to fuck over individuals
Noam Chomsky is a pretty extreme figure - but he does make compelling arguments. Noam Chomsky is a pretty extreme figure, but he does back up a lot of his arguments; I find the picture he paints of the world in Who Rules the World? pretty damning
gentle moss
US had an easy ride for a century after everyone got fucked in WW2 and it's made them complacent
imo
gentle moss
pretty much
undone berry
(and doing their best to take as much of the rest of the world with them)
frosty berry
uh indeed
income inequality in the US was at it's lowest just before 1980
wealth inequality started moving a few years behind of course, as effects compound
and now it's much worse than pre-ww2 levels
gentle moss
i mean, how are you supposed to take that graph?
national income as a portion of the GDP?
undone berry
I'm struggling to infer anything useful from this graph - I might be misreading it
This seems as though wealth inequality is getting worse
the graph also doesn't start at 0
frosty berry
the national income is all the money earned in the us
it's shared among the population
gentle moss
yeah, so share of GDP that each group earns
frosty berry
some people are in the top 1% of earners, some people are in the bottome 50% and the rest are the middle 40%, some possible definition of the middle class
so, now, how much of that money goes to each of these groups?
gentle moss
1980's is pretty much when shit got fucking wild for rich people to be fair
so it makes sense the graph looks like this
frosty berry
well, it got wild at least partly because of politics
that's the reagan/thatcher revolution
gentle moss
yeah
you can also see the post war boom
which, even in the U.S., involved a lot of government spending for social programs
G.I. bill etc
frosty berry
yes, the war destroyed a lot of wealth
and some people had a lot of wealth to lose, some had less
undone berry
Am I completely misreading these graphs? It seems as though the top 1% has been rising since ~1975
gentle moss
yeah, pretty much
frosty berry
so of course after the destruction, they were more equal
gentle moss
well, for the states it didn't really hit wealth too hard overall
since they didn't have to rebuild their entire country from rubble
undone berry
Yeah, the states was at its peak of power and wealth after WW2
gentle moss
then all those war debts from their "allies" they collected for +100 years
i think some of those loans still haven't been fully repaid 🤔
but yeah, american prosperity after WW2 lead to a massive boom in the middle class and wealth inequality dropped
free university / cheap homes will do that for you
frosty berry
interestingly california seemed to have none of that https://wid.world/country/california/
that's only 1 and 10%, it seems the bottom 50% data is missing
gentle moss
california is a range between the stupidly wealthy and the dirt poor
undone berry
Goddammit - I only just realised I misread Tshirtman's message about inequality - I've been so confused since then
gentle moss
hah
frosty berry
yeah that's just the rich and the very rich
gentle moss
top 11% earning 50% of all the wealth near enough
oof, 70%
UK stats look worse than the US
frosty berry
i'm surprised there is no older data, piketty had a lot of historical data for england in the book
undone berry
My original point was that I can't envisage a world where the US/UK fix things with internal democracy alone. It either needs extreme pressure from the EU/BRAC, or there needs to be some pretty extreme internal pressure. It seems that with democracy alone, instead of fixing wealth inequality, the current trends will flatten out, and we'll mostly live shitty depressing lives
frosty berry
internal pressure is going to be extreme
undone berry
By extreme I mean something in the form of a literal violent revolution - I don't see that happening yet
frosty berry
incidentaly it seems the covid crisis is showing that, actually, impossible things are possible, so if people don't let things return to normal after it, there might be some chance of a change
gentle moss
tbh there are some positive that can come out of this covid shit
frosty berry
well, we got more than a year of almost weekly protests in france, and the violent handling by the police did radicalize some people, they learned the lesson that it was, in fact, a war, and they'd have to come prepared for one
gentle moss
and one of them would be smashing that broken record that is "SOCIALISED MEDICINE DEATH CAMPS" type shit
frosty berry
yeah
gentle moss
hah, i don't think they'll stop it
but maybe more average people will wake the fuck up
frosty berry
us senators themselves have socialized medecine, and they wouldn't let go of it
gentle moss
yurp
oh yeah, did you hear that U.S. senators dumped stocks when they heard some behind closed doors bad news?
made a killing.
cushy life as a senator
don't have to work if you don't want to
shit loads of back handers
insider trading
free health care and gym
frosty berry
yeah, heard about that, that's really bad
it's one of the thing the US usually care about though, insider trading, so maybe that'll get somewhere
frosty berry
😮
gentle moss
oh and idk if it will go anywhere
Trump called them very fine people and he didn't know anything about it
frosty berry
yeah, it's not like norms seem to apply to anything these days
gentle moss
2012 is super late to make insider trading illegal
frosty berry
apparently "nope, we don't care" it a perfectly fine defense
undone berry
I dunno - I think Trump is less about not applying the norms, just highlighting what the norms actually are
gentle moss
but i guess when you write the laws you might as well carve out a few exceptions for yourself
undone berry
Mexicans in the US have been villified by repubs for a long time - he's just more overt about it
frosty berry
well, he shows that norms only apply to people acknowledging them
undone berry
as an example
gentle moss
tshirt's kinda right
since it's all a popularity game now
he's repeatedly broken normals / laws and the defence has been "so what?"
undone berry
It always has been - Obama and his message of Hope whilst running Guantanamo Bay and blowing up civilians in drone strikes
just a different kind of popularity
gentle moss
yeah, one's a literal fascist
frosty berry
yes, it's true that some of the shit he does is not new, he's just more brazen about it
gentle moss
and one was just going through the motions of the machine he got put in charge of
frosty berry
"we blew up some folks", that was a scandal, now?
undone berry
Trump is largely just applying the norms of the poltical machine - whilst being an open bastard
fak
I always forget
frosty berry
i don't think he has a concept of norms
gentle moss
true
i mean he thinks it's perfectly reasonable to say he'd bang his daughter if she weren't his daughter
frosty berry
he's just making things up as he goes, always going for whatever he can get away with in the next day or so, sometime even less
gentle moss
and he's shit at actually doing anything.
frosty berry
well, not only he thinks it, but he's letting us know
undone berry
He just applies the policy thats fed to him whilst spouting whatever nonsense dribbles out of his mind
gentle moss
which is why in a situation that demands leadership, covid, he's just throwing shit in every direction like a cocaine monkey
frosty berry
well, thankfuly he's quite inept yes
but even with that, he's doing a lot of damage
undone berry
For the world at large, Trump has been better than GWB
GWB was just more presidenty seeming
gentle moss
you mean in the sense we all fucking hate him?
frosty berry
i don't know, he's empowered russia in the worst possible way
gentle moss
i genuinely think trump does what trump wants to do
and if he does something in line with party policy
undone berry
I don't weigh that nearly as much as invading Iraq
gentle moss
it's because the party probably manipulated him to do it
we're talking about the man who gets print out reports for his tweets in a daily briefing
frosty berry
yeah, the party is all in, because they know they won't survive without him now, so they'll go to hell with him
undone berry
I think what he wants largely aligns with party policy
frosty berry
they would probably like if he was more subtle about things, and more effective at making policy pass, but yes, he's aligned with most of what they want
undone berry
And they're pretty good at surpressing the Trumpian urges that don't fit with party policy - he's been bullied into Hawkism in the middle east
glacial owl
Be thankful that your elected president will be gone in 4 years
gentle moss
i'm not sure the republicans really wanted him to blow up Soleimani without asking anyone for advice
i didn't elect him mate
:D
undone berry
I think there's a very good chance the party machinery was all in on that
frosty berry
well, i'm not sure when trump will go, if he can get away with becoming a dictator, he will
at least he is old, so he won't last forever
velvet rapids
How do I make an eval command like @royal lake? Such that nothing dangerous can be run?
gentle moss
yeah but imagine it turning into a royal family
lime bison
@velvet rapids check out snekbox
glacial owl
Putin just reset his "can'be president for 2+ terms" clause for himself and I'm still salty.
gentle moss
next in line, Don Jr.
velvet rapids
Okay, thanks