@undone berry That's a slippery slope though. You think breaking into somewhere is justified?
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
rough sapphire
undone berry
Honestly, I think anything short of harming another person is justified for saving a life
rough sapphire
What's your view on the trolly problem, then?
rough sapphire
Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?
undone berry
Yeah, they do
frosty berry
i think the law can be unjust, and in such case, it should be changed, and law can only change when people agree following the law in that case is not ethical, so if you believe so, breaking the law can be a political statement, when you are willing to stand for it.
undone berry
Not scaled out to a universal view, but for the confines of the trolley problem and this example, then yes
rough sapphire
@frosty berry Sure, but this is a small enough argument that there isn't a "right"
gusty oar
actually kholberg using this dilemma to reasoning moral development of a person
sand goblet
The trolley problem is inherently flawed though
undone berry
but I don't actually fully understand the usefulness of the trolley problem beyond as a mechanism to articulate different viewpoints
gusty oar
sand goblet
It's not useful for anything else, yeah
frosty berry
i can totally understand someone who steals for their survival, if they don't have alternatives, and they do their best to steal only what they need, from the people who need in the least, i find it hard to blame them.
undone berry
I've read a little about the different schools of ethics. And it seems pretty clear that some variant of utilitarianism is the "right" way to be
rough sapphire
Though, the thing about it, is we're not told how much this person's labor is worth
Sure, they bought the raw materials for $200.
But how much work goes into the $2000 product?
frosty berry
i find most arguments on the right column pretty weak
gusty oar
The trolley problem has been the subject of many surveys in which approximately 90% of respondents have chosen to kill the one and save the five.[26] If the situation is modified where the one sacrificed for the five was a relative or romantic partner, respondents are much less likely to be willing to sacrifice their life.[27]
rough sapphire
If I have to spend 3 month's worth of work for a $2000 product, that I sell once, that changes things doesn't it?
undone berry
Bottom one is most valid to me, but doesn't become apparent with the question
so I don't think you can make that argument without more info
frosty berry
not really, it depends on how much you need these $2000 for your own survival imho
rough sapphire
It's rathering interesting that the time it takes to make the product isn't put down.
undone berry
Again, thats not what the question presents
I don't think you can inject too much extra info into it
rough sapphire
Which is why it's a flawed question.
We're "supposed" to feel bad for the husband/wife in this situation, but we aren't thinking about the other side, because there's more information on one side of the argument.
frosty berry
the problem only states it costs 200 to make it, i do assume this takes into account the labor
rough sapphire
@frosty berry It doesn't though
undone berry
But when you try to fix the problem you end up with so many caveats and "what ifs" that it becomes just abstract and boring
frosty berry
oh right
rough sapphire
Which is why it's a flawed question
frosty berry
The drug was expensive to make, but the druggist was charging ten times what the drug cost him to produce. He paid $200 for the radium and charged $2,000 for a small dose of the drug.
rough sapphire
It's feeding off your emotions
frosty berry
it's stated as if the only cost to produce it is the radium
undone berry
If you're at the point where you're analysing the semantics of the question, you're given the quote No, I discovered the drug and I'm going to make money from it..
"I'm going to make money off it" implies that he is not only going to make enough to survive, but to earn a profit
rough sapphire
@frosty berry Which is why there's not enough information here
frosty berry
making a profit from it can totally be justified, but he had the choice to make a profit anyway
undone berry
But you can never have enough information in these toy problems
rough sapphire
I still see it as feeding off emotions, and that's a low blow.
undone berry
I get where you're coming from, but that leads me to the conclusion "dumb question", not "don't steal the drug"
gusty oar
the only interesting arguments in the right columns to me are the two last ones, for the penultimate one, the fair compensation can't be estimated by the producer alone imho, it should be negociable
undone berry
honestly, I find that variant of the trolley problem hilarious
rough sapphire
@undone berry Oh, I mean, I love the concept of Robin Hood for example
frosty berry
and for the last one, well, the problem doesn't state limit of availability, and ability of others to pay the asked price
rough sapphire
I don't think there's many people who would said they wouldn't like the concept of Robin Hood
undone berry
The image of "Sorry bob, but I've got some kids to save" before pushing a fat dude in front of a train just makes me laugh
rough sapphire
@frosty berry Sure, that changes thing too.
frosty berry
it's way harder to push someone on the track, than to move a lever, not just physicaly, but emotionally, so people tend to answer less by the affirmative to this one
undone berry
I mean, if you want to break down the idea of robin hood into two aspects "steal from the rich" and "give to the poor". I'd choose to have some kind of anarchist fucking with the rich
I explicitly want that to happen
undone berry
It was proposed that the only way for the US president to launch nukes, would be to kill a man and extract the nuclear codes
that was a serious suggestion
and a similar idea
frosty berry
yeah, i like that idea
rough sapphire
Ha ha, what?
gentle moss
i like that idea too
frosty berry
if you are going to kill thousands of people from afar, you should be ready to kill one with your bare hands
rough sapphire
I mean, if there's an imminent attack and you have to respond to it, you don't exactly want to have a person in your way that you have to kill 
gentle moss
if there's an imminent attack and your only response is to nuke something
frosty berry
it should actually be the same with any weapon, i don't find nuclear ones very much worse
gentle moss
you've already failed
gusty oar
torture has been shown to be ineffective
rough sapphire
"Hey Greg, you're a great guy. Wonderful guy. You're my best guy, but I'm going to have to kill you. We can do this the easy way, or we can do this the not so easy way."
frosty berry
that's part of his job
you are going to take a horrible decision, it shouldn't be easy
undone berry
Torture is pretty clearly ineffective
gentle moss
the CIA even has studies showing it's ineffective
frosty berry
yep
rough sapphire
@gentle moss
if there's an imminent attack and your only response is to nuke something
I mean... you're not wrong.
undone berry
(The real answer to the nuke problem is that it shouldn't be possible to launch them)
frosty berry
people make up information they don't have to stop torture
rough sapphire
Many instances of that in Guantanemo
gentle moss
because of false confessions
frosty berry
gives false leads, etc, and people trained not to give in will either do the same or die without talking
gentle moss
and then all you do is end up hardening the resolve of militants
rough sapphire
"My cousin's brother is a CIA asset. You guys should have him on file. His name is John Doe."
gentle moss
by, you know, abu ghraib'ing shit
undone berry
False confessions in the US just from police are a major issue
because of the near torture-like interview methods
with actual torture
gentle moss
part of that is also how their sentencing works too
undone berry
it becomes much worse
gusty oar
Once, in high school, you shaved your head in an act of defiance and regretted it immediately. You called Sam, bawling like a drugged hyena. Samantha came to school the next day bald. She smiles as you pick up your jaw from the floor. “Time to go wig shopping,” she says.
She’s always had your back.
Now it’s your turn.
Samantha, now happily married to Joe, calls you up one day to say hello.
“How are you and Joe?” You ask. “Thanks again for his help watching the kids last week. Remember how I set you two up for your first date five years ago?”
“I’m fine. Also,” she says, dropping her voice. “I don’t know who to tell…but I need to tell somebody…um, I have a boyfriend.”
“You mean a husband,” you correct.
“No…I’m cheating on Joe.”
Your couch looks different all of a sudden as the blood leaves your brain.
“But you have a husband,” you repeat. “Samantha…”
She’s quiet.
“Who is it?” You finally ask.
Do you tell Joe about this? You love Joe. But do you love Samantha more?
And you are disappointed right now.
But it’s not your business.
At least, it’s not your place to be the messenger. Right?
“Who is it, Samantha?” You’re slightly irritated now. Of course you can’t tell Joe. That’s between them.
Also, Joe owns a gun. You know he’s got anger issues. It’s possible he would pick it up in a fit of rage and kill the guy. But if you don’t tell, and he finds out, would he turn around and direct that anger on you for failing him as a friend?
Samantha finally tells you.
“I’m sleeping with your little brother.”
Now you have an ethical dilemma.
What do you do?```tl;dr
gentle moss
yup
not reading that
just pushed all the fun conversation off my screen
cats are cute eh?
rough sapphire
Cats are just one letter away from Bats
So, get this
There's a creature ( best thing to describe it ) called "Spiders Man"
Which is a bunch of spiders, thinking they're Spider Man
gentle moss
5 million spiders in a man suit?
frosty berry
in general, i think truth is important, but yeah, in that case, it's not to me to solve that, i won't people lives in danger for that truth to go out.
gentle moss
hah
rough sapphire
Could you imagine the same thing, but a Bats Man?
A bunch of bats, out fighting crime
gentle moss
during the day they try to be bruce wayne
rough sapphire
Trying to speak
gusty oar
tl;dr is you have your best friend. and her husband.and your best friend cheats on her husband . and her husband has gun and anger issues. if you say him he will kill the guy. and if not he will be disappointed that you don't say him and even he can kill you. and your best friend cheats on her husband with your brother . what do you do```its long short story actually
gentle moss
dogs start barking
rough sapphire
"Hello, I'm Bruce Wayne" when in reality everyone just hears SCREECH SCREECH SCREECH
gentle moss
they go into his office and he's hanging from the ceiling
rough sapphire
"What in the hell?"
gentle moss
keeps bumping into shit because there's too much echo location noise
rough sapphire
Bats Man and sidekick Robins Man
gentle moss
hah
rough sapphire
( Completely unrelated, not surprised )
rough sapphire
I really want Bats Man to have a British accent
gentle moss
plus each fight takes 3 days
rough sapphire
"OY, WHA YA TINK YA DOIN' M8?"
"OI OUTTA SMACK YE IN DA GABBER M8. TEACH YA SOMTIN. LEARN YA NOT TO MESS WITH ME, EH?"
Is that too British?
rough sapphire
I mean
gentle moss
with strawberries and cream
rough sapphire
He doesn't have to play the game
gentle moss
sort of reminds of me the planet cricket from Hitchhiker's
gentle moss
cultural crossover
that's just not cricket.
(that's an english phrase to mean something's not right btw)
god damn i really want a dumb series of super hero piss takes now
rough sapphire
Turns out we got his name wrong and he's Supper Man
He's just hundreds of dinners turned into a person
gentle moss
only available from 5pm to 7pm
rough sapphire
"Oh, your husband's been shot? That's rough Mrs. Abernathy, but it's 7:08. I don't really care."
gentle moss
iron man is fundamentally useless
gentle moss
- many lumps of iron
frosty berry
his shirts are always well ironed
gentle moss
hah
rough sapphire
No, he's a joke character. "He's" literally only just iron
Not person in there, just iron
It's an inside joke, they just talk to the lump of iron
rough sapphire
"HA HA, HOW YA DOIN' IRON MAN. HA HA, HA HA"
gentle moss
but i doubt they'll ever meet
since magneto is just a suit filled with magnetised cornettos
rough sapphire
Black Widow is literally just a huge spider
gentle moss
got that thicc abdomen tho
rough sapphire
I mean, I played Fester's Quest on the NES
That weird jumpy spider thing in the streets was terrifying
gentle moss
the Hulk is way less effective
what with him being just a load of banners in a man suit
sand goblet
All I can think of is the spider girl from monster musume
rough sapphire
Ha ha ha
median cypress
hero
rough sapphire
Your username reminds me of I Want It All by Queen
So, am I missing something with Switch Online?
Is there any real reason to get it?
sand goblet
Online multiplayer, cloud saves, tetris 99, and classic games
(the classic games have stuff like online multiplayer added)
That's about it
lofty dirge
what about it?
quasi lance
Nevermind
just asking if Specialist or Corporal was first,
like which one
Do you know?
golden walrus
my sleep schedule is messed up now
golden walrus
I mean, I fell asleep really early, like 10:00 pm, but I woke up at 3:30 am
gritty depot
lmao
low shadow
How can i use a function in terminal? I mean where can i store a set of command and execute it by typing function name in terminal
rough sapphire
use interactive shell
python3 -i file.py
or just use bash functions
i heard that shell scripting is so easy . one can master it in 15 days
is that a thing ?
rough sapphire
depends entirely on how good you are with the shell in question @rough sapphire
and how advanced of shit you want to do
shell as in terminal
?
terminal is just something which runs a shell
you can use a terminal to run things which aren't shells as well, such as single binaries
ok so interactive mode for shell
are terminal
frosty berry
You can learn a lot in 15 days, but there are things i still look up after years of doing shell scripting, bash is a weird language.
rough sapphire
i have IP exam day after tomorrow
IP as information practices
consist of Basic numpy , basic python , MySQL , antivirus threats bullshit .
wanna top that 80/80
er
good luck
abstract tusk
I believe most of you are programming kings, right?
frosty berry
I don't believe in kings :)
rough sapphire
I'm a programming jester at best
abstract tusk
thou i dont believe programming god or omniscient too..
Ok so my question is
Can you make a program that would prove 1=2..?
if u do that i believe u r a programming king
oak tangle
@frosty berry Ah! Spoken like a true Frenchperson.
rough sapphire
that will throw error actually
oak tangle
Not that it kept you from authoritarianism
frosty berry
easy, just define an arithmetic in which axioms make that true
rough sapphire
print("1=2")
ok am i king yet
frosty berry
@oak tangle oh it doesn't, but at least you have to find better reasons for it than "god given right"
sand goblet
yes, you can actually do that in Python
It's possible to use ctypes and redefine the small integers
rough sapphire
can i define -inf ?
frosty berry
well, it depends on what you mean by "prove"
rough sapphire
redefine
sand goblet
I think math does have an infinite type
frosty berry
it does now indeed
rough sapphire
isn't str("-inf") a thing ?
fallen sparrow
!e
from ctypes import *
cast(id(2), POINTER(c_int))[6] = 1
print(1 == 2)
royal lakeBOT
@fallen sparrow :white_check_mark: Your eval job has completed with return code 0.
True
@frosty berry Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. Although, you're now in, what, the fifth version of the republic? And the first one lead to an empire, which maybe wasn't alltogether that different from having nobility at the end.
rough sapphire
.bm 677098417213669406 ctypes learn that
frosty berry
@oak tangle and i'm of the opinion it's time for a 6th, with less centralized power, our president is kind of a short duration king at this point
fallen sparrow
nice didn't know about the bookmark function
frosty berry
the empire came from a coup, coup can happens in most settings, but yeah, clearly we weren't ready
fallen sparrow
wish it would send me the message too when I react ...
rough sapphire
ahh man don't mock me
that thing is still in planning tag
have its code ready
but can't push it . no pc . exams going on
fallen sparrow
wait, tenderbot? I'm so behind with what's going on in this server
rough sapphire
yes tenderbot
frosty berry
we are in the st valentin season
abstract tusk
it tells false @sand goblet
frosty berry
why is the logo blue again btw?
sand goblet
Works just fine @abstract tusk, at least in python 3
sand goblet
the logo isn't blue
frosty berry
it is for me
sand goblet
rough sapphire
ctrl + r
rough sapphire
frosty berry
somehow i though this one was pink too at some point
oak tangle
Yes, it was the code jam banner up until last night
frosty berry
haha, no thanks 😄
sand goblet
Oh man, someone should take one of the valentines logos and use a swirly cursive font for the "Python Discord"
that'd be pure gold
solid pollen
@rough sapphire float("inf") is a thing though
tame terrace
yesterday, I changed it to the standard banner
I agree it would be nice with a pink one
if someone wants to make that banner, I'd happily switch it.
gusty oar
i think that huawei leaks info to chinese government. our secret infos etc.
sand goblet
China is spying on us
-- Other government who spies on us
gusty oar
😄 but tim cook said they are keeping our secrets safe
rough sapphire
@tame terrace https://github.com/python-discord/branding/pull/43 this any good?
bear in mind i am colourblind
sand goblet
It's pink \o/
rough sapphire
i just used a colour picker on the icon tbh :p
sand goblet
It looks good
tame terrace
@rough sapphire that is a nice start. can we add a heart somewhere?
rough sapphire
where are we thinking?
tame terrace
like.. modify a letter to incorporate a heart maybe?
rough sapphire
the insides of the O's, maybe?
rough sapphire
sec
gotta pretend like i'm doing actual work and not just fucking around with inkscape
tame terrace
haha, I hear that
gusty oar
@sand goblet what do you think about galaxy s20 base price
its 1000$
its expensive than even iphone
solid pollen
I'd rather buy a asus, Google or xiaomi phone :D
gusty oar
ah true i had this conservation with you
there is so much channel im confusing sometimes 😄
i think xiaomi is good too
@azure folio yea
btw huawei's some models are expensive too
rough sapphire
xiaomi screen burns
a lot .
my dad my grandfather my uncle
my other uncle
have xiaomi device and that shit burn within a year
let me get you an example
bought on 26 may 2k19
gentle moss
uhhh
that doesn't look like burn?
sure it looks messed up
but burn is when an image is burned into the screen from being on too long
e.g. if you left a picture of a cat on a CRT for 36 hours straight, that picture of a cat would appear on everything
as it's burned down the phosphorus elements in the tube
rough sapphire
then what do you call it
gentle moss
i dunno tbh
that's an example of screen burn though
tbh it seems like the actual rgb clusters have degraded
terse sluice
i have something that looks like burn in on an ips monitor..
gentle moss
is it like splochy shapes?
terse sluice
no it's like in the pic you sent
terse sluice
i usually have a windows explorer and discord open on that monitor in the same place
gentle moss
IPS shouldn't really experience burn in
gentle moss
i mean, you can get temporary ghosting sometimes
in cheaper IPS screens
but it should fade with time
gentle moss
just put a white screen up on it and see how it behaves
never heard of true burn in on an IPS
terse sluice
alright i'll do that and me neither
rough sapphire
hmmmm
mail.neonsea.uk resolves to 188.166.155.172 - which has a PTR to neonsea.uk
i'm unfamiliar with the standards, is this an issue?
rough sapphire
FUCK
gentle moss
i think it should point back to the mail domain?
gentle moss
i've only set them up for cloud services
so i'm not sure how you'd resolve that
but there's bound to be a way?
rough sapphire
https://serverfault.com/a/193820 according to this, it shouldn't be a problem
gentle moss
hmm
gentle moss
this. this is why running mail servers sucks
rough sapphire
http://multirbl.valli.org/lookup/mail.neonsea.uk.html not sure why those red ones pop up
gentle moss
oooh
gentle moss
that's usually my advice tbh but it's not helpful for someone actually doing it <_<
rough sapphire
i'd rather host my own
rough sapphire
that's not helpful advice
gentle moss
we manage a few onsite exchange servers and get 1-2 problems a year with them
quite often due to uhhh
"ip health"
gentle moss
because our customers prefer it. we can advise but at the end of the day it's up to them.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
they pay the bills after all
lofty dirge
At last job, we started charging arm and leg for it
Lost two customers over it
We were thrilled to lose them
gentle moss
ye well we're not going to piss off our two largest customers over some exchange management :P
lofty dirge
Xx, to do it right, you need PTR, SPF and not be corrupted IP space
Other three happily moved
gentle moss
the ip thing is probably the trickiest one to pin down tbh
since you may not be on a blacklist
but could be in a range deemed "unsuitable" for mail or w/e
rough sapphire
@lofty dirge ptr: check. spf: check. dkim: check. dmarc: check.
last one
uhhhhh
gentle moss
you can't really check it
rough sapphire
probably not check
lofty dirge
Where is server hosted?
rough sapphire
DO
lofty dirge
Corrupted
gentle moss
ah.
lofty dirge
Bisk, we needed to push customers
Other thing that pushes customers is Microsoft Audit
Do you have licensing and CALS for all those users?
gentle moss
yup.
lofty dirge
Since some customers are doing it because they are cheap
Our biggest customer moved because of that
rough sapphire
lofty dirge
They didn’t have Exchange CALS, Microsoft showed up and was pretty angry
rough sapphire
everything is giving me green across the board
apart from gmail's actual spam filter itself
lofty dirge
DO is corrupted space
rough sapphire
fucking AI i tell you
lofty dirge
All cloud providers are
solid pollen
Your message could be improved
gentle moss
major mail providers are the biggest pig for running your own mail server
rough sapphire
@solid pollen it's because it's mostly html since i left the message basically blank
lofty dirge
I ran hosted Exchnage environment for 70k people
Azure, AWS and many others are just 100% blacklisted
Too much garbage
gentle moss
it's pretty fucking dirty behaviour in a lot of ways
since if you want to reliably send mail you have to use their shit
but, i also agree with it
gentle moss
imagine how many droplets spit out shitty mails
lofty dirge
Because not all blacklists are public
gentle moss
"ip health" is such a blackbox
lofty dirge
You can argue with me but I’m pretty sure that’s it
gentle moss
it's the only one you can't reliably verify too
lofty dirge
Because spamtitan did similar and their blacklist were not DNS but download
rough sapphire
checked my IP against a bunch of blacklists as well, only had it in spfbl.net
unblocked it there
oh my fuck
i think that did it
gentle moss
nice
rough sapphire
does https://www.mpfr.org/mpfr-4.0.2/mpfr-4.0.2.tar.xz download for anyone?
undone berry
just hangs for me
solid pollen
It stays on about:blank for me
rough sapphire
oh, i got a response back
The proxy server could not handle the request <em><a href="/mpfr-4.0.2/mpfr-4.0.2.tar.xz">GET /mpfr-4.0.2/mpfr-4.0.2.tar.xz</a></em>.<p>
Reason: <strong>DNS lookup failure for: mpfr-int.loria.fr</strong></p></p>
damn you france
rough sapphire
[...] lookup failure for: [blah].fr
gentle moss
they'll propigate the dns records when they feel like it
they're having a cigarette at the moment
rough sapphire
that's fair
plucky ridge
"Are you ready for the, how you say, 'handshake'?"
gentle moss
"i do not like this session. i will wait for another session."
undone berry
Is there anything like an open source self-hostable version of Discord (text+voice), or would I just be looking for teamspeak/teamspeak+IRC at that point?
plucky ridge
Teamspeak, Ventrillo, Mumble
There really isn't something quite like Discord in regards to how it focuses more on text than talk
Well, not with the ease of use it presents
undone berry
Yeah, its pretty hard to go back to Teamspeak after being used to Discord
(Although their way of managing permissions I much prefer to the Discord role system)
plucky ridge
Agreed
frosty berry
i don't know if matrix.org/riot does voice
it does
and it's open source, self hostable
sand goblet
Matrix is the closest I've seen
placid torrent
how can i check for the manual of the OS from a car???
cuz i am afraid mine doesnt read m4a files
only mp3
but i would like to confirm
i mean, what would u google?
frosty berry
if it's standard, i would google "multimedia player {car model} support m4a"
gentle moss
m4a files are apple files, no?
placid torrent
ye
gentle moss
they would require additional licensing for playback
so they're less likely to be supported
placid torrent
why android can play them?
gentle moss
$$$
pine vector
Head unit models are generally pretty well documented as well. "{Year} {make} {model} head unit manual"
placid torrent
did android paid to be able to play apple music files?
frosty berry
either google or the constructor of your phone, or the software company that built the software you use to listen to them
placid torrent
well, idk what software does the car have
but i am pretty sure it is built on linux
gentle moss
does it have a "smart" in car entertainment system?
frosty berry
that doesn't say much, i would try sommersoft's suggestion
gentle moss
yeah, manuals and that
frosty berry
(i think he knows way more about embbeded systems than most of us)
pine vector
Car stereo scene is always active and technical enough, that the information finds it's way to the web.
gentle moss
i've always replaced my head units
i fear the day when i get a car and that's much harder than a bit of wiring
probably just stick a completely different unit in the glove box
¯_(ツ)_/¯
pine vector
Like when a manufacturer melds the PCBs for audio and climate control into a single PCB? Yeah...I know that story. 🤬
gentle moss
that's... that's just evil
frosty berry
who needs climate control anyway
gentle moss
me. i need it.
plucky ridge
Astronauts
gentle moss
i got it with my latest car and i will never give it up
what sort of chump decides how warm their car is based off some blue/red A/C dial?
pffft
23c or bust.
plucky ridge
Climate control meaning setting the temp itself?
gentle moss
yeah
plucky ridge
Or do you get to adjust things like humidity as well
plucky ridge
I want my t-shirt to be soaking wet by the time I step out of this van
gentle moss
if the footwell isn't a footbath what life are you living?
plucky ridge
Would be a "footwellwhynot" at that point
gentle moss
happened to my nissan micra once when i left the sun roof open at college
beautiful sunny day turned into a thunder storm
was sat in class mixing music then i looked out the window and had a "oh.. huh... OH FUCK" moment
plucky ridge
Why would you leave a big gaping hole into your car at a campus
That screams "Steal shit from me"
gentle moss
steal what?
gentle moss
they could've tried to steal the car but it had no ignition
so any would-be thief would be confused
gentle moss
key snapped off in the ignition so i removed the entire key mechanism and steering lock
wired it to a switch hidden waaaaaay under the dash
plucky ridge
Well they'd be confused initially until they see you hotwired it for them
gentle moss
pfft, if they could find it
plucky ridge
The wires?
gentle moss
yeah.
plucky ridge
You're assuming they wouldn't just rip the panel under the steering column off
gentle moss
you're assuming any wires were left under there :D
plucky ridge
"Nah man, it's all wireless now"
gentle moss
i moved the whole system away from the steering column
nothing was where it was supposed to be
plucky ridge
And by that I mean you just fill the steering column with brine and the connections just do the magic themselves
gentle moss
haha
gentle moss
the salt water starter package
plucky ridge
It was a sad attempt at an ignition joke
plucky ridge
And I don't think my salt water proposal would do terribly well on Dragon's Den
gentle moss
those people are salty enough
plucky ridge
True enough
gentle moss
i keep getting this annoying temptation to strip all the interior out of my car
i never use the back seats, that's like ~25kg wasted
undone berry
I'd be willing to bet that removing them probably wouldn't add any real benefit
gentle moss
probably not
after i removed all the interior from my micra after the sunroof incident i did notice a fuel improvement
but that was like, all the interior
undone berry
I really love the idea of spending like 200£ on a complete shit car, then just doing stupid stuff like removing the interior
gentle moss
kinda what i ended up doing with my micra in the end
undone berry
The ignition thing sounds like the exact kind of fun/dumb shit I'd love to try
gentle moss
new carb, inlet manifold, exhaust manifold, cherry bomb exhaust, no interior, rev limiter removed
mechanical cars are nice to do stuff to
undone berry
I'm so innately shit at making/repairing things, but I still enjoy it
gentle moss
it's good fun
there's a beauty to how engines work.
even just rebuilding lawnmower engines is quite fun
"understandable" technology.
undone berry
Yeah, the whole microprocessors bit of computers/electrical engineering turns computers into magic, whereas something like cars you can pretty much fully understand its operation
gentle moss
cars are getting more and more like that
i want to tune my current car but the new barrier to entry is quite a bit higher
and that's from 2001
undone berry
in no small part its intentional by manufacturers - but its only to be expected I guess
Electrical cars are probably gonna be the end of the current era of hobbyist mechanics
gentle moss
yeah
learning how to do ECU mappings is one thing
but hacking about with Tesla's systems seems... mad.
undone berry
Maybe one day someone will somehow develop an open source OS thats actually installable onto it
and usable
gentle moss
that'll be the day
even with non electronic cars doing stuff to them is a bit... fucky
mid 00's BMW's have a lot of proprietary shit in them
undone berry
My friends dad does electrical engineering for rolls royce, so he has access to all the rolls royce software for working with ECUs - and even then, its still an absolute bastard to work with
gentle moss
can imagine
i'm tempted to go back in tiiiime with my next car
get something carb based again
but that's going to be like a friggin 30 year old car
undone berry
Ford Cortinas (mk1-3) super appeal to me
gentle moss
popular in classic rally
some of the 80's hot hatches would be pretty nice
tbh if i could find one a grandma had used her entire life i'd get another 80's Micra
if i had parking space
undone berry
The exact kind of car I'd love to rag around a field til I hit a tree
gentle moss
yup
vestal briar
How much are them early 2000's ford fiestas now?
I saw one for £750 but that seems a bit much
undone berry
I saw one for £200 on Autotrader
which I was very willing to go halves on with a friend
but they bailed out
but thats not an uncommon price point for them
vestal briar
Some neighbour was selling a navy blue hatchback similar to it for like £300
Then 3 doors down they done the same with this red one; both parked outside the door with letters of price in window
undone berry
I think £250-£750 is a pretty standard price range for this sort of thing
gentle moss
my 88 micra cost me £100 when i got it
vestal briar
Yeah
gentle moss
micra's are pretty damn cheap
undone berry
Did it run?
undone berry
£160 is the cheapest I've seen for something that runs/starts and might pass an MOT
gentle moss
i had to get some chasis welding done after 2 years
vestal briar
Strange to think that something like this is 20 years old now
pine vector
rebuilding engines is good fun! transmissions...never. transmission guy/gal...take my money. 😄
gentle moss
gearboxes are one of those things i'm like "nope"
i got a lightened flywheel for my micra and read my haynes about how to install it was like
"uuuuuuuuuuuh.... pass."
pine vector
yeah, from flywheel to input bearing...i can do that. if you have to crack the case? nope. someone is getting paid that day.
jagged fog
asked my first SO question 
solid pollen
Copyright? Don't want you're talking about https://www.notebookcheck.net/Windows-12-Lite-This-Linux-distribution-doesn-t-care-about-copyright.453784.0.html
gentle moss
i did see that and was like "wot, windows 12? windows 10 is the last windows"
before i read a full article about it
they're opening themselves up for a big ol' slap
solid pollen
Haha, look at the website of the store selling the disks https://webhouses.co.uk/
Hurting my eyes
rough sapphire
Bisk... Win10 isn't going to be the last... i heard something about windows 10 x?
gentle moss
no, windows 10 is the last
in terms of a platform
they're going to do rolling upgrades and alternative versions, sure
frosty berry
well, osx 10 has been the last for quite some time now
gentle moss
but they're specifically stated they're not creatinga "new" windows
at least in the forseeable future
which in terms of microsoft's planning is a loooong ass time
rough sapphire
I thought this new thing was separate to windows 10. something stupid like dual screen only
bear with me a sec i'll see if I can find the article i was reading.
frosty berry
seems version/patch number have started to be a meaningful reference to users, which seems a bit crazy to me, but if it's where it's going.
gentle moss
there are a few different versions of Win 10, but they're all fundamentally win 10
there's some safe mode version that only lets you install stuff from the app store, for example
frosty berry
haha, that's going to be popular, not.
gentle moss
then there's the one they stick on tablets
we encountered it the other week
a customer purchased a laptop without consulting us and wanted their old outlook and office installed on it
no dice. you have to buy a full win 10 license to get it out of safe mode
explains why the laptop was only £350
rough sapphire
lol
frosty berry
so only signed binaries can run there?
gentle moss
yeah
specifically ones from the store
you cannot install any software that isn't from the store
solid pollen
Oh my haha
gentle moss
which means no Chrome, for example
gentle moss
the license for it is SUPER cheap, as it's a manufacturer only type thing
no, since Edge is basically Chrome
it smacks of a potential anti-trust problem
a cheap laptop with a full Win10 is a whole load more expensive than one of these restricted ones
frosty berry
but can you install linux on them, or is the secureboot preventing that?
if so, that's a good way to purchase cheap laptops without paying the windows license
autumn herald
It's been 4 days i'm trying to do a report in Business objects
i can do it in 30 min to 1h in Python that's so frustrating
frosty berry
and why can't you?
autumn herald
Oh because it's integrated with the system we use, and that's what my company is selling to the client
but it's badly integrated
i didn't made progress in 2 days
and i never got any course in Business Object programming, the logic is outside of my abilities i'm afraid
frosty berry
having to use stupid solution because stupid solution is what you sell to the client is indeed a pretty sad thing
gentle moss
man, you should see the software one of our customers has been developing
was supposed to cost £500k and it's now up to £2m
it also only works in 1080p
it's web based and only works in 1080p.
rough sapphire
work or limited to ?
frosty berry
😒
gentle moss
it wont work in lower resolutions. stuff is in the wrong place / off the browser and you can't scroll
:D
rough sapphire
2m for this ?
gentle moss
well, you don't even know what it does
but it's a classic case of poor spec and then creep
rough sapphire
what it does ?
frosty berry
runaway costs in big software dev is sadly not uncommon
gentle moss
it's a CRM type deal for employment agencies so they can centralise payments / management of agency employees
autumn herald
the solution we set up for client is a lot of disgusting modules added to their main activities
everything is poorly integrated and it's like a Golem
gentle moss
rather than have an inhouse team of devs they decided to outsource it to some russians
autumn herald
there is more special rule than in Anima RPG
frosty berry
there has been a few catastrophies with projects for big software service companies, for government here, millions upon millions of cost overruns, years of delay, unworkable software…
autumn herald
even their support don't know how to sort it out
gentle moss
oof
the place that's building that software had a similar issue with another piece of CRM software for sales
they were sold the moon
and it doesn't do any of it
"works with VoIP!"
autumn herald
(anima rpg is therpg i opened one day and i stumbled upon the page of "bare handed monk damage by weight and size"
i noped out)
gentle moss
after 2 years we got them to say it doesn't work with VoIP, it only works with Skype for Business
rough sapphire
Skype made a critical mistake using udp hole punching and peer to peer to connect lol
gentle moss
it was a peer to peer service, what do you expect?
rough sapphire
Hence why so many skids ip grabbed on skype
yeah so?
It's still a security flaw
gentle moss
i don't agree
rough sapphire
I do agree
One of the reasons discord just uses the normal client server model lol
gentle moss
that's like saying bittorrent has a massive security flaw in that you have to announce your IP to the swarm
it's inherent in the system
it's hardly a flaw
rough sapphire
But did soo many skids abuse it?
no
On skype
There's all these idiots booting other skids offline
Purely because skype was p2p
cursive dove
oh gawd
i remember the days
"hey yo come to skype"
internet goes down for like 5 hours
yeehaw
rough sapphire
Udp hole punching is good but not for stuff like that
gentle moss
i don't see that as a problem with skype.
rough sapphire
XD
Then who's problem is it
The poor victim?
That has no clue what's going on?
gentle moss
yeah, pretty much
rough sapphire
XD
cursive dove
lolw
rough sapphire
you are a funny man
gentle moss
skype is dogshit since microsoft moved it to a centralised model
rough sapphire
☕
cursive dove
cursive dove
well u just answered didnt ya
rough sapphire
^^
Skype was getting abused by idiot skids
And now it's not
I guess
Trade security for quality?
cursive dove
now noone is using it anyways 😄
rough sapphire
I'm sorry but I rather want security then quality
I rather don't want my internet down for a week
rough sapphire
By a 12 year old mlg kiddo
That tryhards minecraft
and uses stressthem.io to boot
cursive dove
goddamn nostalgia
rough sapphire
^^
gentle moss
tbh it sounds like a user issue rather than a protocol issue to me.
cursive dove
no, its cuz skype was dogshit
rough sapphire
That every virus
cursive dove
not the user
rough sapphire
is the user's fault
not the AV
If it doesn't get detected by an AV
Then the user just should not of downloaded it
Am I right?
gentle moss
that's a bad analogy.
rough sapphire
That's the exact same senario
gentle moss
no it's not.
gentle moss
no, i'm not.
gentle moss
if you're aware skype is a p2p system and that it exposes your IP address
rough sapphire
☕
cursive dove
the exact same scenario would be giving your home adress to cool guy named Skype johnson and tell to tell noone, but then he does and he does it for free
gentle moss
then maybe you're not going to add random little kids to convos
cursive dove
and next day u get 50 pizzas at your house
gentle moss
no, p2p skype wasn't made by microsoft.
gentle moss
and when skype was purchased by microsoft
gentle moss
they gutted the p2p element out of it pretty heavily
sand goblet
the maker of skype? skype.
rough sapphire
hm
cursive dove
Skype Johnson
sand goblet
yup
gentle moss
the p2p element was the best part of skype and how it worked
rough sapphire
I don't agree that it's not Skype's fault
sorry
They could of done a better job
gentle moss
moving it to a centralised system fundamentally destroyed what was good about it
rough sapphire
You can literally
gentle moss
you're blaming the technology for a user education issue
rough sapphire
IP headers still exist
gentle moss
headers or not
rough sapphire
You can just spoof the source adress and it'd be
100 times better?
But then again
gentle moss
how do you expect peer to peer traffic to work
rough sapphire
not all providers allow that anyway
gentle moss
with spoofed IPs
rough sapphire
bro
gentle moss
🙄
rough sapphire
They spoofed ips have no
sand goblet
it's OK to admit you have no idea what you're talking about
sand goblet
Say bisk, how many years of experience do you have with this stuff?
gentle moss
okay, how do you make a peer to peer network with spoofed IP addresses?
sand goblet
I've got just over a decade myself
rough sapphire
It's clear to say I code C and delt with p2p
gentle moss
uhh, i'd say about 20
rough sapphire
🙂
gentle moss
give or take
rough sapphire
okay
sand goblet
Dang, you've got me beat there
gentle moss
you can't build a p2p network that doesn't expose IP addresses
gentle moss
because by it's nature, the peers need to establish connections with each other directly
sand goblet
I mean it sounds like he has more years of experience than you have years of.. life
gentle moss
that's why it's called peer to peer.
gentle moss
so you can't just spoof ip addresses to "make skype secure"
the only way to "secure" skype is to move away from p2p
which is what MS did
rough sapphire
I'm sorry but you can send over a socket and make it connect to that XD
gentle moss
wot
gentle moss
oh jesus
rough sapphire
not on all ISPS
sand goblet
a lot of ISPs just correct them
rough sapphire
I mentioned that
earlier
^^
I said it's possible ^^
I never stated skype would be able to do it ^^
sand goblet
and breaking the expectations of the protocol is no way to write software
gentle moss
and it'd still make no difference
rough sapphire
I just said p2p is a risky way and skype's fault
gentle moss
the p2p element is what made skype good
gentle moss
all because you hang around in shitty communities that are full of script kiddies
gentle moss
doesn't mean the software is shit
gentle moss
well you're complaining about people getting DDoS'd, a problem i never had while using skype
sand goblet
oh god, yeah, the p2p aspect made skype so fucking good in enterprise environments
holy shit
gentle moss
yaaay, microsoft central sign in is down
sand goblet
well then they should just not have used skype
rough sapphire
F
rough sapphire
So where did this discussion lead to? no where because you both still didn't prove me wrong
🙂
sand goblet
your argument is a non-point
gentle moss
you're saying the p2p system is bad
sand goblet
bisk is right, it was a user education issue
rough sapphire
I didn't try to make it an argument
sand goblet
they shouldn't have used skype in the first place
gentle moss
because people can get your IP and DDoS you
gentle moss
i'm saying the P2P system is actually a blessing because it doesn't make you dependent on someone's central server
rough sapphire
I'm not saying that man
You don't listen
Can you read correctly?
Scroll up bro ^^
gentle moss
"quality over security"? is that your point?
rough sapphire
yes
gentle moss
it's only a security issue if you're not educated, so you can't blame skype for being p2p.
you can blame people for being ignorant
rough sapphire
I blame them for not warning users too well about it
Because most kids have no idea
gentle moss
most kids have no idea about anything.
sand goblet
well then they learn the hard way from not doing their security research
rough sapphire
Still
gentle moss
and they're too trigger happy to blame technology
rough sapphire
Even fortnite
gives you warnings
About things that you shouldn't do
Why can't skype have warnings
and have like a
loading screen
sand goblet
yes, because we now live in an age where you get swatted for doing well in a game
gentle moss
fortnite has to because it's aimed at tiiiiiiny little children
sand goblet
we didn't live in that age before
gentle moss
skype was a communications application for general use
rough sapphire
true that is
but still
'yes, because we now live in an age where you get swatted for doing well in a game'
Was also a couple years ago
gentle moss
and skype did bill itself as a p2p platform.
rough sapphire
But not since too long indeed
I'm not saying it was bad
I'm just saying
Quality over security
Which not all users enjoy