@solid pollen i am tempted
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
modern island
modern island
yep
solid pollen
Not really anything, but almost every program you can think of
modern island
I mean, I would recommend not using python for something that is GUI
rough sapphire
Is it not recommended to use python to make certain stuff?
Wait
Why not use python for GUI?
shadow jetty
python is fine for gui
modern island
python doesn’t really feel like it was made for that to me
solid pollen
Yes, some stuff aren't really recommended for x or y langauge
modern island
C# feels much better for stuff like games and interfaces
rough sapphire
So basically python can be used for anything and doesnt have a weakness at all
modern island
and it is pretty simple, like python
C# is like python in compiled languages
it is fast and pretty simple (just look at C++)
plucky ridge
I'm still confused why you're not wanting to suggest Python for gui when there are half a dozen solid gui libraries for Python
rough sapphire
What is it bad to use python to make?
plucky ridge
Python certainly has weaknesses
rough sapphire
What are the weaknesses of python
shadow jetty
look at this beautiful program
plucky ridge
It would not be suitable for making a game engine, for example, where execution speed really really does matter
But the key is knowing when that extra .1 seconds really matters
modern island
^
plucky ridge
When calculating physics for a game? Yeah, probably want something lower level
When handling menu options or game logic? Python does just fine
modern island
yup
rough sapphire
So python would be good for building a firewall because speed isnt important in making a firewall?
modern island
I mean, I don’t get it: most python really big 3rd party libraries are C/C++ interfaced with python
plucky ridge
I suppose that's possible
solid pollen
Speed does matter for a firewall
rough sapphire
Why for a firewall?
plucky ridge
Has to handle a lot of incoming connections
rough sapphire
routing packets needs to happen FAST
shadow jetty
that's why python is dope, we have access to lowlevel speed through high-level wrappers
plucky ridge
^^^
You can write the core in something like C and just use Python to tell it what to do
plucky ridge
Ceratinly
rough sapphire
So if a firewall doesnt have speed is it really weak?
plucky ridge
Everything has caveats, and they very rarely centralize around speed
solid pollen
Blender does use C/C++ for the core of the software, and python to drive it
modern island
the moment where you use python's polymorphism in its best and then your code is slow when you scale
rough sapphire
So basically what programming language has the fastest speed?
solid pollen
Probably ASM
modern island
well
solid pollen
But..
plucky ridge
Machine language
modern island
that is ground, not low level
plucky ridge
But for sanity's sake, assembly
solid pollen
ASM is nearly as fast as machine language
plucky ridge
But what you gain in your control and speed of processing, you lose in a CRAP ton of convenience that we take for granted in our languages
modern island
^
rough sapphire
i'd say sending electrical pulses (of ones and zeroes) via a physical connection is ground level
ASM is still relatively low level
modern island
that is underworld level @rough sapphire
rough sapphire
Ok so what programming language (not including speed) has the best quality code to make the best quality program (note please dont be biased with your answer lol)
solid pollen
Quality? Python
rough sapphire
"best quality code" whta does this even mean
plucky ridge
Well again, depends on the program
solid pollen
Readability I assume
sinful turtle
For ease of writing the code I'd say python
modern island
C# can also produce quality and speed, to be fair
plucky ridge
Certainly
rough sapphire
Like don't be biased and say python unless python actually has the best quality code to make the best quality program.
modern island
but yeah, python is the simplest
sinful turtle
most high-level languages can
plucky ridge
Again, for what KIND of program
plucky ridge
This is an incredibly open ended question
rough sapphire
So it depends on the program that your making?
modern island
Very
plucky ridge
Just like life
solid pollen
Life is situational?
modern island
yes?
rough sapphire
code quality is measured in the context of the programming language itself, it's incredibly hard to compare code quality between different languages
sinful turtle
I'd say python is the best for all around, but it's bad at some fairly specific things
modern island
yup
plucky ridge
You just described all languages
sinful turtle
good point
modern island
haha
sand goblet
haha
solid pollen
Some languages are bad at almost everything, except some very specific things
solid pollen
Like Matlab
sand goblet
oh god, matlab
modern island
I cry when I timeit something built-in in python, y’know
undone berry
Most people I speak to who use it like Matlab
sand goblet
but how do you timeit timeit?
plucky ridge
Sure, but it's when people try to use Matlab for stuff that isn't, well, Matlab
plucky ridge
I'm not following what you mean
solid pollen
Timing a timer?
plucky ridge
I'd think the outer most timer would always be slightly slower
Or at least think that the inner ones ended slightly later than they did
oak tangle
>>> timeit("timeit('pass')", globals=globals(), number=1)
0.05446681300236378
>>> timeit("pass", globals=globals())
0.054086114003439434
haha, ves does it again
plucky ridge
That hurts my head
plucky ridge
For some reason I read that as "brian what the hell"
modern island
lol
oak tangle
brain what the hell why did you read brian what the hell
modern island
alright, I got it
sinful turtle
what would you say is the fastest high level language?
modern island
timeit is slowww
plucky ridge
How high
oak tangle
Amsterdam High?
modern island
fuck
sinful turtle
Like not C/ASM/machine code
plucky ridge
So just above C then
oak tangle
I mean, I lived in Amsterdam, so I know how high Amsterdam is
sinful turtle
yeah basically
plucky ridge
Like Java/Kotlin/C# territory?
modern island
@oak tangle we are dead gang
oak tangle
And I can tell, the Netherlands is pretty damn low
sinful turtle
yeah I guess
sand goblet
because of v8, mostly
modern island
v8?
sinful turtle
doesn't JS run asynchronous? (or am I dumb)
sand goblet
but javascript is a much simpler language
yeah it is asynchronous by default
v8 is google's javascript engine
sand goblet
No, it's interpreting it
modern island
solid pollen
JS is an interpreted language
sand goblet
like I say, JS is just a very simple language
sinful turtle
(also JS is way less strict on syntax so it is probably a bit quicker to parse, probably not important tho)
modern island
I mean, typing help('modules') really tells me why
sand goblet
JS has modules
modern island
but not THAT many
modern island
yeah, fair, let’s continue
solid pollen
Weak typed can be actually slower
sand goblet
it's weakly typed though, everything is an associative array basically
all numbers are floats
sinful turtle
Is Lua a lot faster then python?
sand goblet
That's one for the google, I'd say
modern island
lua is really damn small
sinful turtle
Apparently it's quite a bit faster
sand goblet
to give you a completely bullshit example
sand goblet
the minecraft server I host for #591999731325075487 has the OpenComputers mod
which has both Lua and Micropython available
(yes, they finally did it)
and yeah, the Lua machines are quite a bit faster
modern island
what is even quite a bit
sand goblet
they are noticeably faster when making use of them
modern island
module? table. object? table. dictionary? table. table? table.
sand goblet
which is amusing because the micropython machines basically just run a repl
modern island
table
solid pollen
since the word lua came up, I was wondering how long would it takes for you to talk about OpenComputer :D
sinful turtle
I was just wondering because I made a raycasting thing in Lua and it ran way faster then I thought it would considering how badly optimised it was (60x240 rays per second)
sand goblet
yeah Lua is pretty fast
you would expect that though
it was designed for embedding within games
modern island
lua is weird
sand goblet
it also has a JIT if it's already not fast enough for you
sinful turtle
also lua is used for loads of game modding (especially indie games)
which is a plus
modern island
sand goblet
I dunno if I'd call gmod an indie game at this point
but I guess noita, starbound, do use it
modern island
hahaha
sand goblet
stonehearth
sinful turtle
baba is you and factorio
sand goblet
noita is great, you guys should play it so you get to feel the rage that I do every night
rough sapphire
@oak tangle damn, why does pass take so long to execute for you?
sinful turtle
is it a hard game?
sand goblet
yes
sinful turtle
how hard is hard?
modern island
super meat boy is easier?
sand goblet
it's a 2D action roguelite in which you play a magician attempting to reach The Work at the bottom of the inside of a mountain
every particle is simulated
modern island
sounds fun
sand goblet
it's pixel-based, because it has to be
sinful turtle
basically is it harder/easier then super meat boy/cup head?
oak tangle
Because I'm running everything on an almost 10-year-old potato, @rough sapphire
sinful turtle
good point
sand goblet
it's hard because things can snowball
rough sapphire
@oak tangle impressive
plucky ridge
That.... can't smell good at that point, Ves
plucky ridge
Oh you're fine then
sand goblet
If you guys are interested I'll do a Go Live with it when I get home
plucky ridge
Also I would imagine that it would be growing eyes like crazy
sand goblet
haha
oak tangle
They don't smell good, but artificial pine is better than rot
rough sapphire
how did you coerce the potato into running python in the first place
oak tangle
by asking it nicely
sand goblet
speaking of going home, going home now, afk
oak tangle
I just planted the idea of running Python in its tiny head and it sprouted nicely
oak tangle
Anyway, everything runs slow on my machine and I think it's dying
but, it works
for now
sinful turtle
my friend's iPhone suddenly started running really slowly and crashing on light apps like Spotify, any clue why that could be?
modern island
@sand goblet damn, Noita is beautiful!
plucky ridge
@sinful turtle What model?
sinful turtle
7 I think
plucky ridge
Possibly planned obsolescence? Either that or a bunch of apps just running in the background
plucky ridge
They might still be running even after you clear them out of the thing
I'd say start with removing unused apps
And if that doesn't work, possibly back everything up then do a factory reset
Which is surprisingly easy and safe to do considering their cloud
sinful turtle
yeah ice factory reset a few times
it's surprisingly easy
(apart from the one time I needed a code from a message sent to a security phone number, but the security phone number was my phone so I couldn't actually get it)
sinful turtle
it kinda feels hot, but it's 13 degrees where I am
rough sapphire
shut it down and let it cool down for a bit
sinful turtle
yeah potentially
though iphones auto shut down if they get too hot (I've done that on accident before)
rough sapphire
not before they throttle
iPhone screens stop working during our winters when it goes down to -30C
it's quite funny
So putting assembly code in a video game can make it run super fast lol
Or putting assembly code into the networking code
that's not how it works
all code eventually ends up as "assembly code" (well, bytecode, but it's interchangable in this context)
But if u put assembly code in making either a game or into the networking it will make it faster right?
when you compile a program, the only way to see what it does is to look at its disassembly - ie the actual instructions to the CPU
Because assembly is machine code
nothing about assembly is inherently faster than other code other than the fact that when you write assembly, you usually don't include a lot of the things programming languages do automatically which adds quite a bit of overhead
There are a lot of people that say assembly is faster
that doesn't make sense
everything running on a computer is assembly
solid pollen
It is faster, because you have a more fine control of it, so you can really optimize your code
For example, assigning a value in ASM can take like 3 instructions, but it could take 10 instructions in C++, because of the abstraction
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire look at this
on the left, you see C code
on the right, you see its assembly
ie what it gets compiled to
the C code and the assembly (excluding compilation) run at exactly the same speeds
But doesnt assembly code make the program run faster
because, again, the C code first gets boiled down to assembly (this happens to everything running on a computer)
no, dude
you need to stop thinking about assembly as if it's a programming language
assembly is just instructions for the CPU
in many cases, writing assembly directly will make your program run slower than if you used a higher-level programming language, because computers are generally a lot better at optimising assembly than humans
So like ur saying assembly isnt a programming language?
yes, that's exactly what I'm saying
Google says it is a low level programming language
modern island
assembly is kind of machine code but which makes sense
rough sapphire
it's a visual representation (readable by humans) of bytecode (readable by the CPU)
Like is assembly is the fastest code how is assembly code created.
Assembly code is basically machine code right
assembly code is created by compilers of higher level languages
like the link I sent you
Ohhhh I see
Ok now I get ittt
So assembly code was invented by high level languages?
"assembly code" is nothing more than a series of instructions for a CPU. every CPU implements an instruction set, which is basically a list of things that the CPU is capable of doing at a silicone level (ie, add or multiply numbers, move numbers between registers, etc)
each "line" in "assembly code" is just an instruction for the CPU
gentle moss
it's like manually operating the CPU
rough sapphire
But how was assembly code even made though?
Was it made by other languages?
Ok so it is just CPU code?
"assembly code" wasn't really "made" in one place or time
each CPU architecture has different assembly code
assembly for x86_64 will look entirely different to assembly for ARM
again, it's not a programming language
So assembly wasnt created by humans?
no, that's not what I'm saying
each architecture has a set of standards that the manufacturer of the architecture specifics came up with (ie, the x86 standards were made by Intel, x86_64 standards were made by AMD)
these standards define what the assembly for a given architecture looks like
Is assembly language code from the hardware piece?
what
Ok so like is assembly code directly code from the CPU?
assembly code (essentially) goes directly into the CPU
you can't run higher level code on a CPU without first transforming it into bytecode (assembly)
wheat lynx
^Assembly code is translated to machine code, but it is the same instructions so yeah
rough sapphire
So assembly code is made by higher level languages?
higher level languages output bytecode for the CPU, yes
at a very simplified level
So then how is a higher level language made?
From other high level languages?
using other lower level languages
Woah shit this gets complicated lol
CPython (the standard python implementation) is written in C
C, is in turn, also written in C
It's like cells well these cells were from these other cells and such lol
well, not really
C is a set of standards
C compilers are written in C
sand goblet
@modern island Glorious, isn't it
I'll turn on my machine shortly if you want to watch me die over and over
sinful turtle
Doesn't it go python -> C -> ASM -> machine code (from highest to lowest level)
sand goblet
Haha
rough sapphire
C is not written in ASM for the most part
So higher level languages made assembly language?
Like higher level languages created assembly language?
most C implementations are self hosting, which means, in a nutshell, that C is written in C
modern island
yeah! the game is awesome! @sand goblet
rough sapphire
How did higher level languages created assembly code in the first place?
modern island
Most compiled languages are self-hosted, though?
modern island
first languages were made in machine code I guess?
sand goblet
Punch cards
modern island
and then higher-level ones used them, and so on
rough sapphire
"first languages" were first written in other languages before becoming self-hosted
modern island
yeah, but the real first one
rough sapphire
only a select few languages were ever written directly in assembly
So assembly was created by higher or lower level languages?
modern island
@sand goblet vc or something?
rough sapphire
and only up until the point they became capable of self-hosting
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire Again, assembly isn't a language
not in the context that you're thinking of
Was assembly created by higher or lower level programming languages
Yeah I know it isnt
it wasn't "created"
it came to be when the first CPUs were invented
sinful turtle
Assembly is basically the CPU itself
modern island
ah, yikes, need to go @sand goblet
rough sapphire
and it only came to be alongside the CPU
modern island
brb in some minutes
wheat lynx
assembly is the direct instructions for the hardware
rough sapphire
with the very first CPU became the very first flavor of assembly
wheat lynx
Assembly is written in metal
rough sapphire
So someone didn't create assembly code by using other languages?
It is just CPU code then
yes
sinful turtle
higher level languages are basically just abstractions of assembly to make it easier
rough sapphire
So basically why can u write assembly code in a higher level language?
If it is just CPU code
For the CPU
sinful turtle
everything your computer runs has to be in machine code
so (eventually) higher level languages become machine code
compilers are basically just ways to turn higher level languages into lower level ones (usually, there are some exceptions)
rough sapphire
So is assembly only CPU code or is it code from other hardware parts of the computer as well?
assembly is only code for the CPU
"other hardware parts" also communicate via the CPU (simplified)
So if u create a program with assembly code the assembly code u will be putting will come from your CPU?
i'm not sure what you're trying to ask
Like assembly is basically the CPU instructions?
gentle moss
MOV - move data from one location to another
ADD - add two values
SUB - subtract a value from another value
PUSH - push data onto a stack
POP - pop data from a stack
JMP - jump to another location
INT - interrupt a process
are examples of instructions you can give a CPU
rough sapphire
they would be represented to the CPU as Binary words, wouldn't they?
So do those instructions come from the CPU?
wheat lynx
That is assembly and is directly translated to machine code which is binary
solid pollen
Yep stese
gentle moss
the CPU supports those instructions.
autumn herald
Reading this gave me Intcode PTSD
gentle moss
they are built into the processor
rough sapphire
But how were these instructions made?
I think 'come from' is the wrong terminology. the CPU understands what to do when given those commands.
gentle moss
that is a much more complicated thing to describe
solid pollen
That’s literally how the CPU works
gentle moss
the long and short of it is that CPU's are massive arrays of transistors that do small logical operations
solid pollen
The CPU can’t do anything else than executing intcodes
rough sapphire
Where these instructions made from the CPU with a bunch of binary code?
rough sapphire
So is the instruction MOV basically 1s and 0s?
solid pollen
More or less yeah
wheat lynx
Yeah
rough sapphire
the CPU manufacturer decides what instructions their CPU supports. These instructions are "executed" as electric signals (ones and zeroes) directly within the CPU
solid pollen
For example mov eax ebx will copy the content of the register eax to ebx
And the instruction is encoded as binary so the CPU can understand it
wheat lynx
It's like putting 1s and 0s into a complicated web of logic gates
rough sapphire
So how do they figure out which 1s and 0s do which instruction, did people have to do trial and error forever lol
solid pollen
Yes
rough sapphire
they were better than they are now, for the most part
solid pollen
You even had ms-dos manuals
rough sapphire
since that was the ONLY way to learn.
wheat lynx
They made the docs when they made the CPU architecture
wheat lynx
Docs are just instructions for people on what they can do
rough sapphire
everything on a computer is 0's and 1's at the very end of it, but no, someone wrote the documentation to describe each function, and how to use it.
wheat lynx
They are not put into the computer
rough sapphire
Or was the documentation already there by the hardware piece.
the documentation is just pen and paper
"the processor does X if you send it these bits"
wheat lynx
The documentation tells the people what 0s and 1s to put into the CPU to make it do a particular thing
rough sapphire
But someone had to figure out what the 1s and 0s do by trial and error way back then before the documentation was made?
wheat lynx
It's hard to explain something so complicated simply so you sort of have to just accept what it does
wheat lynx
People designed the CPU with some instructions in mind. The CPU is built around the instructions
rough sapphire
look up Boolean logic and logic gates
But when the first CPU was made they had to figure out what the 1s and 0s did?
Or like the first computer
wheat lynx
They knew what they did because thet made the CPU
rough sapphire
So if someone makes a CPU they can know what the 1s and 0s do?
The stronger a cpu is does that mean the more 1s and 0s it has?
@rough sapphire not know, they decide what the 1s and 0s do
no that's not how it works at all
I think we are being trolled here...
Just asking not trolling
👀
ok
wheat lynx
@rough sapphire that's not really helpful. It is very complicated to understand for the first time
rough sapphire
So if a person makes the CPU than that means they can decide what the 1s and 0s do?
Or do they have to go by what the CPU says?
Ok sort of understanding it
wheat lynx
The person decides when the design the CPU
rough sapphire
Ok
It feels like deliberate misunderstanding with the purpose to annoy... i'm just saying what I see.
wheat lynx
They make a sort of blueprint to plan what it does
rough sapphire
i could be, of course, incorrect
It isnt to annoy lets try to stick to the topic of programming
wheat lynx
A more powerful CPU can process more at once and is faster. It gets quite complicated
rough sapphire
Asking questions never hurts
To say something is annoying just by someone asking questions is weird
wheat lynx
@rough sapphire maybe read this. It might help. https://www.howtogeek.com/367931/htg-explains-how-does-a-cpu-actually-work/
rough sapphire
asking questions isn't a problem. Asking questions in a particular way and with the intent to irritate or annoy is at best undesirable... the manner of your questioning suggested to me that you might have been trolling.
wheat lynx
@rough sapphire this server is meant for people of all abilities and I can see how it could be difficult from a begginers perspective. I am would rather help a troll than ignore somebody who is not a troll
I'm not saying I don't see your point, I do, but I don't want to take the risk of refusing help to somebody who needs it
rough sapphire
@wheat lynx thats an admirable goal, for sure, and I agree with it... all i did was state the feeling... obviously not an opinion shared, so i'm not pressing the issue.
wheat lynx
That's fair
plucky ridge
I'm with wook on this. Worst thing to happen by helping someone who ends up being a troll is that we mute/ban the troll. Someone else may possibly benefit from the questions or answers by looking at it later
lyric pollen
I learned by watching this lol https://youtu.be/Yc945sNB0uA
The light stuff is basically 0 and 1, y/n
wheat lynx
Good video. It's nice to actually be able to see the parts, easier to understand than looking at the microscopic parts of a modern computer.
plucky ridge
So wait
It's not just a bunch of gnomes high fiving each other to create electricity?
I feel lied to
solid pollen
I'm at 2/3 of the article, I'm starting to loose hope of finishing it one day
Oh wait
1/3 of the article is just citations
For the first time in my life I've read a whole big ass Wikipedia article
solid pollen
Yay =D
vestal briar
I've developed a habit of just browsing through wikipedia
sinful copper
lmao the flavor of Monster energy drink I drink changed its name from "Absolutely Zero" [with the packaging claiming "Zero Calories"] to "Zero Sugar", because they now have to measure the calories per can instead of per eight ounces and it rounds to 10 calories
sand garnet
rough sapphire
@sinful copper why couldn't they just change what "Absolutely Zero" refers to
as in, sugar and not calories
gentle moss
they tried to ship Monster Absolute Zero but it just wouldn't move
gentle moss
work just paid for my personal pycharm license.
i am a persoffessional python dontveloper now
sand goblet
I mean, if it's open source then what's wrong with trying it?
You could audit it yourself and see if anything is sketchy
gentle moss
and people will be alllll over that
for that very reason
someone could get a half year run on the info sec talk circuit with that
rough sapphire
autumn herald
Is it good on your CV?
solid pollen
It is good for your bank though
rough sapphire
Being a loaded celebrity insulates you a little from 'bad' decisions
rough sapphire
would I date Leo? is that a trick question?
rough sapphire
this happens very often
bright wing
I hate it when I install anything and it leaves so much junk on my PC if I uninstall it. Is there a way to uninstall anything truly completely?
dusky orchid
sounds like a loaded question
ccleaner is a legit tool
revo uninstaller is also a legit tool
they do different things
bright wing
I thought ccleaner became bad when they were bought by avast?
Also there are many bad opinions about ccleaner around the web, some say it broke they're pc or that it doesn't do anything really useful
dusky orchid
there's bad opinions about knives too because someone can stab themselves
it's a tool and it does low level adjustments to your pc
if you use it, you need to know how to use it
deleting everything willy nilly is asking for things to be broken
same thing with revo, when you use it, it has three stages
it performs a normal uninstall
then it scans for leftover registry entries related to it and list any possible matches
at this point you should actually look at the list to make sure these are relevant to the program you just uninstalled or if they're for something else
only tick the relevant ones and delete them and then it'll move onto next stage
scanning for leftover files and directories relating to the uninstalled program
same deal, it'll show a list and you need to manually check to make sure they're actually safe to remove
there's three different levels of scanning so you are able to keep on the safer side with scan results
however if you're super unsure about anything, never just delete it anyway
that's how you break things
bright wing
Cool
vapid bluff
in the past perhaps, but modern ccleaner is a spyware vessel iirc
bright wing
Is it free? Are there any similar programs that might do it better?
vapid bluff
they have a monitoring feature that you cant turn off
constantly harvesting your info
it's been several months since i tried it so idk, maybe it's changed now
sand goblet
Unchecky can be useful on windows if you install a lot of stuff
Automatically stops you from agreeing to toolbars and such
dusky orchid
i'm not really going to go into ccleaner's questionableness. the question was if it's a legit tool. it is
dusky orchid
revo uninstaller is not related to ccleaner, it's offtopic
that's why i don't want to go into it
unchecky i've not heard of
ah i see, it just ensures there's no adware agreed to
not a bad idea for family pcs
sand goblet
Yeah, bundleware avoidance
Its installer actually has a bundlewear checkbox though which is hilarious
bright wing
There's another one called IObit uninstaller, do you know it?
dusky orchid
not heard of it
i've heard of iobit though
i have an odd impression of them, vague but not brilliant
solid pollen
I tried it once, it is useless
bright wing
Oof gotta pay for Revo
dusky orchid
no you don't
dusky orchid
can't say i've ever needed that before
especially since i'm not entirely sure how accurate that would be without the existing install as a reference to go by
i probs wouldn't trust it as much
bright wing
Oh ok
It's like sublime, I hadn't even finished configuring it and it was already storming me with prompts to buy it
for 80 usd
oak tangle
Well, it's not a free application, just free to try
Sublime is made by a very small team
having a pop-up pop up every 50 or so save that you make doesn't seem like the most prohibiting thing to have in such a case
you can basically use it forever, although it's not really ethical
oak tangle
Anyway, it can't compete against VSCode, which is a Microsoft product and Microsoft can spend a lot of money just to get people hooked to their product
That's the only reason why VSCode is free
Microsoft can afford it and wants developers to use their product
dusky orchid
i don't think sublime is oss, is it
solid pollen
Microsoft...
dusky orchid
yeah, aussies
oak tangle
Maybe three now
There's no way it can compete with VSCode in terms of value for money, since VSCode is free and Microsoft invests a lot of money in VSCode
dusky orchid
but yeah vsc being oss kinda means they gotta be free
solid pollen
I wonder why they decided to not make it open source
dusky orchid
because they don't want to give it away lol
oak tangle
Because the guy who started it wanted to be able to live from it
That's the entire idea
solid pollen
The free version have as much content as the paid one
dusky orchid
it's nagware, which is usually enough to make people uninstall or pay
solid pollen
So, it wouldn’t really hurt to make it open source
oak tangle
You're supposed to then get a license
solid pollen
It is a limited trial?
oak tangle
A lot of people actually buy a license, since they like the editor
I've got one
I know eivl has one
David Beazley has a license
dusky orchid
i very almost did buy one too
oak tangle
(he talked about that during a talk I watched yesterday)
dusky orchid
ended up going vsc because at the time i wasn't sure how serious i was going to get into coding
oak tangle
vsc is a fine editor
dusky orchid
this was coming from N++ so was a pretty big bump up in UI/UX
undone berry
Whats the advantage of Sublime over VSC?
dusky orchid
sublime is native iirc
plucky ridge
Also their music is better
undone berry
As in it doesn't use Electron?
dusky orchid
yes
oak tangle
Yes, it does not
sand goblet
sublime is native and it supports python plugins
solid pollen
They did put a yellow jacket on the chameleon when there were strikes going on in france btw
sand goblet
however it is proprietary and minimalistic
oak tangle
That probably depends on how you define minimalistic
sand goblet
and in general I find it quite slow
dusky orchid
it's a pretty great editor that supports a lot of the more involved tinkering settings
but i don't think it's as pretty as vsc
oak tangle
It's usually praised for being extremely fast and snappy compared to editors like VSC
sand goblet
It is, if you don't install any plugins
dusky orchid
reminds me of atom. 5 plugins and even the cursor was lagging 500ms+
sand goblet
the ecosystem is very vim-like so vim users will feel at home at least
oak tangle
There's nothing of that in my sublime
I use sublime because it's fast, starts very quickly, and is snappy
When I have a larger project, I'll suffer PyCharm's lag
but PyCharm takes ages to load and is very laggy on my laptop
plucky ridge
That's primarily because you're on a Pentium Potato II processor
oak tangle
yes
dusky orchid
i have vsc installed as a quick feature-rich editor
oak tangle
It's not PyCharm that's the problem here
dusky orchid
takes 1.5s to start vsc for me
sand goblet
I use VSC and IntelliJ Ultimate the most right now, although PyCharm Pro is still there for me
oak tangle
sublime starts pretty much instantly for me
oak tangle
takes less than .2 seconds to load or something
sand goblet
I'm also not really a big fan of sublime being closed source
oak tangle
I'll try timing it by making a screenvideo if I figure out how to do it
Well, I can see that
but I've not experienced your other complaints
sand goblet
I mean, IJ Ultimate and PyC pro are also closed source
but at least the base IDE is open
dusky orchid
they're also a huge team
oak tangle
Yes, they're also backed by a large company
Instead of a single and now two guys trying to make a living
sand goblet
and I think JB will allow you to apply to audit their code as well
plucky ridge
And very active in their development as well as receptive to their community
undone berry
Still blows my mind that IntelliJ et al use swing and make it look good
dusky orchid
does it still count as native when it's java
sand goblet
I meant native-looking, sorry
rough sapphire
what is native, really
dusky orchid
it was a genuine question
rough sapphire
the jvm is native
sand goblet
Swing isn't a native UI framework
dusky orchid
there's a layer of virtualisation though
sand goblet
well, no
on windows you have winforms
and that entire ecosystem
on linux you have GTK and Qt
Swing is its own thing, it's not drawing components from those toolkits
dusky orchid
you can have Qt in windows too
sand goblet
yes, and Qt looks native on windows, but it's not a native framework
dusky orchid
i have no idea how that works
sand goblet
it's a really stupid distinction when you think about it
dusky orchid
must be a lot of reimplementing per system
dusky orchid
i mean the backend of qt to support different os apis
plucky ridge
Yeah it's just a specific style guide per system
sand goblet
Well, yeah, with something like Qt there is a lot of reimplementation
don't forget though, Qt is owned by nokia, or it was
it's not a small company or project
I'm not sure if you've worked with Qt directly in C or C++
C++ has stuff like std::string
you don't use it
you use QString
there is a whole range of standard QTypes
that's how they get around platform-specific details
rough sapphire
it needs to be abstracted to be less hacky
plucky ridge
I thought Nokia got absorbed by AT&T
rough sapphire
Imagine having a service bounded mobile
rough sapphire
you mean a contract?
sand goblet
My phone isn't bound to a network either
lime jewel
Ok, anyone taht likes CTFs.
I'm working on one, and I know the flag is in a .accdb file, but i'm trying to get it without leaving the terminal. I can't install anything, and none of the tools i've found on google are provided. I do have python, but I don't have pip. I also don't have file editors. I can cat the file and I get a nunch of weirdly formated but human readable text mixed in with emoji and tofu.
I'm at a bit of a loss where to go from here. I've tried and failed to google what encoding it uses to try and decode the catted text
any ideas?
frosty berry
strings is like cat but only shows displayable things, if that helps
not even vi or nano as editor?
xxd or hexdump might be installed also, to see it as binary
sed can be a way to edit without an editor, by redirecting the output to a new file, same with grep, cut, and awk
does python have the pip module ? (python -m pip)
if you can use wget/curl you can install pip for your python using the get-pip script, and use --user to install in your user dir if you don't have permissions to write in the system
@lime jewel
never did a CTF though
fossil solar
tired osprey
i was sad that it didnt have a hacktoberfest nr6 sticker like last year 😦
rough sapphire
had to clean shave
cuz of an operation
RIP my patchy beaed :(
rough sapphire
@lime jewel yep, strings is super useful
I usually run it with -wtx so it also includes whitespace (really useful) and prints the location of the string in hex
sand goblet
if it doesn't like
it needs to rotate the display a full 360 degrees
so the bottom is always at the bottom
but that's not how pixels work
gentle moss
"hey, are you tired of corners making it much harder to drop your fragile ~$700 piece of technology...."
"introducing the new phumble phone"
oak tangle
The girl that lives next door to my parents now swears by something called a "popsocket" or something
gentle moss
"once you try it you'll say 'hang on you piece of fucking shit awww fuck... i dented the corner.'!"
oak tangle
She's 13 or so,
sand goblet
oh yeah, popsockets
oak tangle
so I have no idea what she's talking about
gentle moss
popsockets are a weird trend
oak tangle
ah
sand goblet
that's a popsocket
oak tangle
okay
gentle moss
yeah so you don't have to use your palm to grip the phone
oak tangle
she says it's to stop her from dropping it
gentle moss
you rest your fingers in the socket
sand goblet
yeah
oak tangle
and all the kool kids at school have one
sand goblet
they're the shape of an old style round door knob
gentle moss
sand goblet
yup
gentle moss
they collapse in
sand goblet
well they can
gentle moss
because, again, corners are apparently really shit at keeping phones in your hands
so rather than utilising the natural grip action the human hand is highly adept at
lets hold our $700 magic slabs between our fingers
lime jewel
re who wants a circle phone, ome thing that jumps to mind is cosplay. ik at least one thing thay has circle phones on canon
sand goblet
well yeah but are you gonna drop 800 dollars on a round phone for your cosplay?
gentle moss
especially when you can probably get something cheaper and arduino driven
gentle moss
errrrrrrrrrr
i mean not to be shape-ist or anything
but most humans are
human shaped.
oak tangle
non-rectangular people is a way of saying you're fat.
gentle moss
haha
gentle moss
it's not just round
it's lens shaped
put that shit down on the table and it'll wobble
oak tangle
yes
gentle moss
and you'll definitely fuck up that glass
sand goblet
the back might be flat
oak tangle
that adds to the hipster factor
undone berry
Its designed like that on purpose, so you can flip it like a coin
sand goblet
I can't see the phone in this picture
sand goblet
oh right
gentle moss
you have to communicate with it like a can radio
press it to your throat to activate the throat mic
sand goblet
hahaha
gentle moss
press it in your ear to hear the response
sand goblet
talk into it and then put it to your ear, yep
gentle moss
so fucking dumb
sand goblet
if it was cheap I'd get one just to piss people off
with my fucking
frisbee mp3 player
sand goblet
imagine trying to use apps that aren't made for this device
gentle moss
single directional speaker attached to a frisbee
sand goblet
like it's basically a square screen with no corners
gentle moss
well g
sand goblet
where do you put the buttons
gentle moss
they'll have to put...
a square app in a round phone.
which, hilariously, is pretty much what their marketing is against
sand goblet
imagine if the thing just runs android wear
gentle moss
oooffff
worn rampart
inb4 shape-independent UI design becomes a hot new meme topic for medium articles
undone berry
a smart pocket-watch
sand goblet
that's what I said
undone berry
didn't say pocketwatch
sand goblet
that's what a time piece is
gentle moss
First Look Tour 2019
We are planning a road trip to collect feedback
on our prototypes of The Cyrcle Phone.
undone berry
an instrument, such as a clock or watch, for measuring time.
gentle moss
i wonder if they thought of trying square wheels on their bus
undone berry
Timepiece is entirely general
undone berry
I only ever see it used to refer to wristwatches
sand goblet
that is what was just said
gentle moss
your grandpa's clock
the one that's too tall for the shelf?
yeah, that's a timepiece
sand goblet
doesn't exist
sand goblet
the grandparents I disowned do have one
lime jewel
r u gonna drop 800 on a phone for a cosplay
me? no. some people? yes
undone berry
tbf, if I had a house, I'd fucking love a massive grandfather clock
sand goblet
a bigass grandfather clock
gentle moss
i'd get one with a glass door
and then pimp the shit out of it with LED's
and dub horns instead of chimes
undone berry
I really love old clocks/watches
gentle moss
the mechanics of them are really impressive
sand goblet
I've had three smartwatches now
gentle moss
my grandad/ma have a bunch of them
sand goblet
none of them have remained on my wrist
gentle moss
they have one that's entirely driven by a sterling engine or some shit
undone berry
I have a 1940s watch that I'm to anxious to wear at all often
gentle moss
thing is super precisely calibrated and only loses a minute every 400 years or some shit
totally dumb but super cool
sand goblet
stirling
gentle moss
cheers.
sand goblet
I expect there are a lot of weird watches out there
gentle moss
when they started adding weights to automatically wind them
that was cool
i don't really wear my nice watch except to look superduper smart
i wear watches face down like a weird dork, so they end up getting damaged a bit
sand goblet
I don't wear a watch ever
undone berry
Even among high end watches there are tonnes of weird ones. I like looking through Omega watches just to find the bizarre ones
sand goblet
I understand the utility of a smartwatch
undone berry
I love the stock image for it
sand goblet
but they're so heavy and bulky
gentle moss
(because terrorists use the timer circuit to make bombs)
sand goblet
like yes, having media control and notifications on your wrist is great but now your wrist hurts
gentle moss
there was actually a point in time where some keywords NSA kind of looked at were Casio F-91W and Toyota Hilux
because of their popularity with terror groups
fucking weird.
undone berry
Do you find normal watches uncomfortable, or have you never really worn one?
sand goblet
Normal watches are fine
undone berry
I'll never wear a smart watch because I have little girl wrists
sand goblet
but for any watch with a decent feature set, they're pretty big and heavy
undone berry
and they would look SUPER dumb
sand goblet
like if I have a smart watch it better do all the things
gentle moss
they do a similar to the F-91W in metal
sand goblet
otherwise why buy one
gentle moss
those are pretty dope
sand goblet
you know what I mean?
might as well get one with NFC
so I can pay with it like an idiot
undone berry
Honestly, I just want an NFC chip in my hand at this point
gentle moss
sand goblet
some people have done that
sand goblet
it's called biohacking and I massively advise against it
sand goblet
it's his keycard, yeah
undone berry
I want it done properly, not some dodgy ex tattoo artist jamming it in my hand with a pair of pliers
sand goblet
I used to know someone who put a magnet in her finger so she could sense north
gentle moss
yes!
sand goblet
however she was, as you say, a fucking lunatic
sand goblet
I don't want anything in my body that shouldn't be there thanks
gentle moss
i think i might run into problems with it and bass playing
magnetic finger tips would probably fuck with the magnetic pickups
gentle moss
oh shit
undone berry
Your finger would also lose magnetism pretty quickly
gentle moss
"sorry work, i can't handle ANY hdds anymore."
undone berry
tapping magnets slowly destroys the magnetism
gentle moss
i doubt the magnets are stronger than a magnetic screwdriver tbh
i wouldn't even want anything that strong
gentle moss
apparently it doesn't take much to gain "extra sense"
sand goblet
although you can make a "compass" via mental work alone
at least from what I've heard
but it's a bad idea
gentle moss
i've heard that's bullshit from all the science they've done about people being super shit at directions in general
sand goblet
it's a concept I learned from the tulpa community
I imagine it's super unreliable though
gentle moss
i stand by my point
tell you how i know roughly where north is
time of year and the fucking sun
undone berry
99.9% of the time I have roughly 0 conception of where north is
gentle moss
i did hear of a cool belt that was made though
it was basically filled with little vibrating units or w/e
sand goblet
although I should point out that it's hard to entirely write off the tulpa community
gentle moss
that would always gently vibrate in the direction of north
gentle moss
on a bike though?
sand goblet
that looks kind of like a bomb belt ngl
sand goblet
haha
those helmets are great though
I'm hoping they legalise electric scooters here so I have an excuse to get one
undone berry
LIke electric mopeds, or electric versions of the push along scooters?
sand goblet
yes.
undone berry
which of the two? Or are they both illegal now?