The games released don't make me want to go "Heck yeah, I wanna spend an excessive amount for one or two good games!". Which is the same approach I have for the Switch.
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
rough sapphire
it takes time.. I guess for VR to mature.. but I've seen some applications for fitness, they look pretty good
I mean, I can just actually exercise.
It's gimmicky to say the least.
lol.. well.. it really depends
it's like.. when you're playing something using Wii or something and you don't think about the exercise part of it
I think porn and fitness will be the biggest drivers of VR
much like how war and porn have driven most of tech development o.o
I don't consider the Wii exercise, though. There's never been a point that I've thought of the Wii as exercise. This is coming from someone who's seen/tried the Gold's Gym game and Wii Fit. Both are.. limited.
I mean, I understand the "As long as you're doing something, it's better than doing nothing" approach. But at that point, you could just be doing bodyweight exercises.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
rough sapphire
exactly!
but that's the concept, taking out the monotony of exercise gets people active.. because not everyone can put up with it..
I've always wanted to go to a gold's gym.. heard they're super expensive though.. never used Wii myself, but what this guy is doing is interesting
it's by the guy that founded bodybuilding dot com.. incorporates weights and VR
opaque anchor
tk = ?pyimport('tkinter');
window = ?tk.Tk();
?window.title("Tkinter Title!");
lbl = ?tk.Label.__seqcall__((window,), [text: "Hi!"]);
?lbl.grid.__seqcall__((), [row: 0, column: 1]);
?window.mainloop();```My toylang (Quazi) can now create Tkinter applications!
.__seqcall__ allows you to use args and kwargs on PyObjects, since those don't exist on regular Quazi functions
Here's the Quazi code compared to the Tkinter code
Quazi objects can be accessed in Python and vice versa
That's how it works
fossil solar
is anyone from Canada? or studying in Canada?
rough sapphire
no.. there's no one left in Canada.. they all went south for the winter
solid pollen
When you just get lost browsing ArtStation and find stuff like this O.O https://www.artstation.com/contests/the-legend-of-king-arthur/challenges/69/submissions/47009?sorting=winners
solid pollen
Someone know which car is this one?
viral parrot
thats an GT40 @solid pollen
solid pollen
Oh yeah! Thanks you very much!
sand goblet
something is definitely up with this rendering
rough sapphire
borked
sand goblet
yikes
sand goblet
emacs isn't half bad so far
rough sapphire
Do you still have all your fingers left
Ok that sounded better in my head.. my friend hurt his fingers using emacs..
solid pollen
But... emacs isn’t console based, right?
sand goblet
it can be
oak tangle
emacs is just an entire world inside an "editor"
sand goblet
it does kinda feel like that to be honest
haha
I thought pycharm had some odd plugins
emacs even has like a slack client
sand goblet
I mean to be far I haven't actually written a single line of code today, it's been all configuring
but at least the thing does support some of the basics I'm used to
although why shift+tab isn't dedent I'll never know
one annoying thing about spacemacs is that it has two sets of keybinds - emacs and vim - and since it was originally designed to be "emacs with vim binds", most of the documentation uses vim binds and doesn't offer the emacs equivalent
which means I often have to call the commands by name instead
sand goblet
it just seems weird to offer both and only support one in the docs, haha
it also has this whole config layers system which makes an awful lot of sense, but also requires writing a lot of lisp
sand goblet
emacs lisp, yes
solid pollen
it is an old language right?
sand goblet
yeah, pretty old
I don't mind lisp, particularly
that's what it uses for configs though
solid pollen
Why is there parenthesis everywhere
oak tangle
because of Emacs Lisp
solid pollen
sand goblet
lisps are all parens everywhere yeah
so this config file has like 540 lines by the way
solid pollen
And of course xkcd https://xkcd.com/297/
solid pollen
Yes sir
sand goblet
it embeds all the text if you do that
although obviously discord's unfurler is struggling today
solid pollen
Because it works fine some days?
plucky ridge
As fine as any Discord thing works
sand goblet
yeah some days it doesn't take hours to load
haha
Yeah I dunno
I don't hate emacs I guess
I don't see myself using it as a daily driver though
I wonder if there's any plugins that automate project creation
plucky ridge
Probably wouldn't be too hard to write a script to do it
sand goblet
I just find it useful that IDEs like IDEA have a quick way to generate the project structure
there's probably a cookiecutter or something though, sure
plucky ridge
I'd be surprised if there isn't
solid pollen
@plucky ridge I saw a ticket about logging bots’ DM, is it in place yet?
solid pollen
I mean, do you see it in the mod channels?
plucky ridge
@royal lake's is, but I don't think we're tracking @median dome's
solid pollen
Oooh.. 😄
solid pollen
Any idea what this software is?
vestal briar
Looks like adobe
Maybe lightroom ae?
Not sure what it does though from that photo
Looks like it
solid pollen
At 13:20 https://youtu.be/-BjJNMC048U
vestal briar
Yeah, it's ae
solid pollen
Oh yeah, looks like it, thanks!
gentle moss
[15:17] Akarys: Why is there parenthesis everywhere
the spoils of the parenthetical war
many men fell into madness
sand goblet
figured I'd set it up on windows too for the laugh
but it's slow as fuck to start on windows so I had to set up the daemon mode
so no discord rich presence
but that's fine
sinful copper
lisp was originally supposed to have a different syntax, but in the early days someone wrote an interpreter that used s-expressions because it was easier
sand goblet
I know enough lisp to edit the config
Which means I know enough to not want to write any actual code with it
sinful copper
i like lisp, it's probably not for everyone though
plucky ridge
The RPN messes with me
Like I'm sure I could get used to it, but ehhhhh
It's not going to be quick and easy for me to glance over it
rough sapphire
Neck warmers are like the thing you will know importance once you buy one ,
Damn it's hawt in here
cobalt raft
Hi, I just started with python (with programming in general rather), I want to know what I can do to improve in this language or in programming in general
plucky ridge
As with most things you want to get better at, practice practice practice
summer knot
@cobalt raft Build projects that involve things you care about personally
Then you'll have a personal investment in getting better
cobalt raft
Oh, i know that i need to practice a lot, but if any of you know any type of "exercises" to improve
Like clasic things that are useful to get better
summer knot
Check our Rosetta Code for examples of how a given problem is solved in various languages; come up with your own Python version of a solution
plucky ridge
Or go through some of the old Advent of Code problems
All the previous years are available, are code agnostic, and are quite interesting
sand goblet
you want your main class
the one you wrote
since you didn't use a package, it might be hard to find
sand goblet
the class is Window
you can use whatever class name you like once it has a public static void main in it
graceful basin
Also, your sources should go into src
sand goblet
the convention is src/main/java/package/ClassName.java
pretty redundant, like most things in Java, but yknow
frosty berry
because if you repeat everything 3 times, inconsistencies should be easily spotted and fixed
(not)
sand goblet
haha
graceful basin
And package would be sth like com.nay2d2.testapp if your domain is nay2d2.com, do not use a package if you do not own the corresponding domain, just do nay2d2.testapp then
sand goblet
well no
knotty silo
i cant open src
sand goblet
yes, because it's empty
you can use social media as well in some cases if you want
a lot of people use com.github.username
I have no idea how you use that theme by the way
my eyes hate it
haha
sand goblet
I just use the material theme plugin
knotty silo
I think this com.github.username stuff is confusing me more
sand goblet
I mean the problem with java is all the boilerplate
knotty silo
i don't see how that affects me finding main class
graceful basin
You really should be putting classes in packages
sand goblet
you need to close out the run config and fix your structure
sand goblet
because it won't find your class like this
graceful basin
ATM, your file structure is wrong
sand goblet
we should explain what a package actually is, probably, lak
okay @knotty silo
close that run config dialog, get back to your editor
head to the src folder, right click it, make a folder named main
and one within that named java
knotty silo
src from .idea or src from window
sand goblet
forget .idea, that's just a project configuration folder
graceful basin
From window, you should generally not touch folders that start with .
sand goblet
well no, don't be scared of dotfiles
knotty silo
like this?
sand goblet
apparently your modules aren't set up correctly, but don't worry about that for now
you should be able to right click that folder and mark it as a sources root
it'll go blue
what's your github username?
knotty silo
nathanbowley98
sand goblet
okay so once that's marked as a sources root
right click it and create a new package
it should be com.github.nathanbowley98
knotty silo
sand goblet
man how on earth did you end up with that folder tree
anyway, so look inside src/main/java
you should see the package you just made
right?
knotty silo
sand goblet
alright, you're not clicking on the folders I'm asking you to
main.java -> mark as -> sources root
then move that com.github.nathanbowley98 into it
sand goblet
okay
right, yeah, okay
the submodule would do that, yeah
alright, just remove the main.java and drop the com.github... package into the src folder
knotty silo
is it supposed to swap it around like that
sand goblet
it is not, but it's probably because you created the package outside of the sources root to begin with
you can just remove it and create the package again under src
knotty silo
it keeps putting it back on top of src not within it
sand goblet
alright, you know what
you have a submodule here you don't need
leave that window open and go to file -> new project, let's do this properly
opening my idea, sec
right, so in the new project dialog, select java on the left side
and don't check any of the boxes
just hit next
you might not get this one, but if you do, just hit next again
now type in learning for Project name, and the rest of the inputs will be updated accordingly. Click Finish.
knotty silo
sand goblet
yeah, you will have less options than me, I have ultimate
sand goblet
Not massively, but just call it learning for now
knotty silo
right?
sand goblet
you want it to match the artifact name
but we'll get to that
for now, the module and project name should be the same
assuming you did what I said, you'll end up with this
knotty silo
yah they are same
knotty silo
it worked!
sand goblet
okay, so
this is your base package
packages exist as a form of disambiguation
your project doesn't exist in a vacuum
if you want to use someone else's code, you want to make sure your classes don't conflict with their classes
so if everyone uses unique package names, there'll never be a conflict
sand goblet
we still need an artifact name, our project is learning and so is our module
so we'll also call this artifact learning
we'll do that by making a package under this one called that
with me so far?
knotty silo
artifact name is like the same as a instance in python? or what is it similar to?
but yes im with you
sand goblet
well, you might have more than one project
you don't want them to conflict with each other either
sand goblet
we call it an artifact name because usually you package your java application up into a JAR file
which is a build artifact
anyway, now we have our package
let's right-click it and make a java class
since this will be a runnable class, we probably want to call it Main
knotty silo
knotty silo
is it always public static void main(args)?
sand goblet
it's always public static void main and it always takes a String array as the first argument, yep
I use String ... args, it's how varargs are done in java, but you can use String[] args
they both work, my way is just newer
knotty silo
oh gotchu, i think my java is version 11? idk
knotty silo
yah
sand goblet
so now you just right-click anywhere in the file, and..
you'll see it building on the bottom toolbar
knotty silo
nice! THANKS MAN!
sand goblet
also note that IDEA has generated an out folder
that just contains the compiled java classes
you can rebuild them by clicking on the relevant option under the build menu
or Build Project to just rebuild the entire thing
knotty silo
wait so running in java is like a one shot thing unless you rebuild?
sand goblet
No, no
you can run it as many times as you like
but sometimes you might need to recompile your classes after you edit them
usually IDEA is smart enough to do it for you, though
you're not running the source file you wrote
you're running the compiled class file
knotty silo
oh so like what your saying is sometimes variables will be the wrong value after running it the first time
sand goblet
No, no
Your source file is compiled to a class file, and then you run that class file
knotty silo
sure yah
sand goblet
occasionally IDEA will fail to realise that you changed a file and it won't recompile it
knotty silo
oh
sand goblet
I'm not sure why
but
you can automate the rebuild if you like
you'll see at the top of the window you have a dropdown that says Main
edit your configurations
knotty silo
got it
sand goblet
click the save button, since just running a file like that only gives us a temporary run config
now you'll see at the bottom is a "Before launch` section
knotty silo
oh so i can reuse this now?
sand goblet
and.. oh, mine actually already has Build in it
maybe they fixed it then, it's been a long time since I wrote java with just the IDE tbh
you can just hit OK
what this does is save a formal run configuration for your project
you'll see there's a big green run button in the top toolbar
you can click that (or hit Shift+F10) to run the config selected in the dropdown
means you don't have to go looking for the right file all the time
knotty silo
shift f10 didn't seem to do anything
sand goblet
mine completes the run almost instantly
you can hide the run output by clicking on the - to the right of the pane
knotty silo
oh it was just doing it instantly
sand goblet
I honestly don't know any
sand goblet
I actually picked up my java basics at an IRL course
there must be at least one java server, though
knotty silo
yah I have my java course this semester after learning python and its the first day and want to get ahead alittle
😄
sand goblet
haha, fair
Yeah, I like java, but I don't love it
I really like python but I find myself using it less and less lately, which is a surprise
But my Kotlin usage has really gone up so I can't really complain
sand goblet
It really is
golden walrus
it looks very modern
sand goblet
It's really interesting how a lot of the Kotlin language features allow it to modernise otherwise archaic Java features
for example, if you look at Kotlin's async model
it has asynchronous functions
they're known as suspended functions
they basically provide a similar asynchronous context to asyncio
so you call another suspended function and the current suspended function will wait for it
there's no await, it's just automatic
however
none of java's own asynchronous programming classes support this model
but that's okay because kotlin has extension functions
so you take java's CompletableFuture
you can import kotlinx.coroutines.future.await and suddenly all CompletableFuture objects have an await() method that allows you to use them in a suspended function
it works and it kinda feels like magic, but the good kind of magic, yknow?
golden walrus
syntactic magic
sand goblet
also no null pointer exceptions ever (unless you want them)
golden walrus
I don't know that much about Java, actually, but I've used quite a few times
and it's like
sometimes I felt I was using it wrong, but nope, it's just the way it is
sand goblet
yeah, java does feel like that
golden walrus
like the choice of making you write interfaces for lambdas
sand goblet
let me give you a line of code here, and I'll unpack it for you
golden walrus
there's something about that that feels off
graceful basin
It is rapidly getting better
sand goblet
if (event.channel.idLong != config.channels.botCommands && event.member?.isStaff() != true) {
this is a discord bot, obviously
you might think that last comparison is a mistake, but it's not
first of all, I'm using != instead of ! object.equals(otherObject)
secondly you might notice the ?. operator
event.member may be null
in java, we would have to check this in a separate conditional and handle it
otherwise we'll get a NullPointerException thrown when we try to access an attribute against it
in Kotlin, we just use ?.
in this case, if event.member is null, then ?. will just return null instead of trying to access an attribute
isStaff() returns a boolean
so we check the final value against true
since null is not equal to true
in my opinion null safety is the biggest problem java has, and kotlin solves it in probably the nicest way it could
but this is only half of the problem
graceful basin
Java is trying to be null safe
sand goblet
because you still need to remember to actually use this operator, right?
hang on, my gradle daemon is down, haha
okay so this particular instance is a bad example because the java library doesn't correctly declare that event.member is nullable
if it did, however, just using . here would fail to compile
kotlin forces you to either use a null-safe operator, ?., or a null-assertion operator, !!.
the latter basically says "this is not null, so if it is, I want a NullPointerException because something is wrong"
golden walrus
I find interesting that Kotlin comes with one
sand goblet
there is jshell I guess
but almost nobody uses it
the thing with java is that a repl kinda doesn't make sense
since every executable line of code has to be within a method, within a class
golden walrus
because you would have to write a class?
golden walrus
very 90s mindset
sand goblet
kotlin doesn't have that requirement so a repl makes a bit more sense
there are some other niceties you get
it hides getters and setters and calls them automatically when you access things
object.getX() just becomes object.x
that also works for assignments
list and map access uses what you might call index notation in python, map[key] = value
lambdas (often called units) in kotlin are first class citizens as well
this is actually an applied function, but it works in basically the same manner as a lambda
GlobalScope.launch takes an applied function (or a lambda) as its final argument, so we can skip the parens and go straight into the block
IDEA is telling us that this refers to a CoroutineScope object
in a lambda, you'd have it here instead, referring to the argument passed to the lambda
I don't think I actually have a lambda in this project but let me see if I can find one
oh yeah, here's one
it doesn't have to be called it, we can provide our own name if we like
just like { num -> num.toLong() }
anyway I could go on about kotlin all night
golden walrus
mmm
golden walrus
what's the argument in that lambda?
sand goblet
well, let's unpack what this line of code does
we're using getenv to get a string, which is the value of the STAFF_CHANNELS env var
then we're splitting it by ,
this gives us a list of strings
we're calling the map function against that list, it takes a lambda and the argument to that lambda represents a single element in the list
map runs the lambda against every element in the list
that will return an Iterable<T> which should be inferred from whatever we return from the lambda
which is implicitly the last statement in the lambda
and then we call toList() against that and we end up with a List<Long>
if anything along that process returns null, the entire line will return a null value
then the elvis operator ?: will check the returned value
golden walrus
you don't need something like an arrow? is the argument implicit?
sand goblet
If the lambda takes a single argument then it's automatically passed in as it
golden walrus
I see
sand goblet
this is just compressed on a single line so IDEA isn't telling us it exists
golden walrus
how would it look if there were two arguments?
golden walrus
got it
sand goblet
in some cases you'll have to tell Kotlin what types to expect as well
depending on the underlying java
{ x: Long, y: Int ->
println(x)
println(y)
}
providing types feels kinda like python
..and then the elvis operator ?: will check the left side
if it's not null, it returns it, otherwise it returns the right side
note that in kotlin you often don't have to provide types, it can infer types and automatically cast them as well as needed
different project, much less kotlin friendly, but you see what I mean
also pictured: string interpolation
golden walrus
how does the boilerplate feel to make something like a Discord bot?
sand goblet
It depends on the library
discord4j is kind of trash
that's what I used for my first bot
jda is much better
for jda I actually wrote a small wrapper around JDAUtilities' command class
this allows our commands to run as suspended functions and thus use kotlin's async model
because I'm lazy I just register it manually atm https://github.com/TeamJM/Mappy/blob/master/src/main/kotlin/info/journeymap/mappy/Main.kt#L59
you'll note that last file has no class in it
I also had the same idea for events, so here's the code for that https://github.com/TeamJM/Mappy/blob/master/src/main/kotlin/info/journeymap/mappy/events/EventDispatcher.kt
combined with this annotation https://github.com/TeamJM/Mappy/blob/master/src/main/kotlin/info/journeymap/mappy/events/Listener.kt
sorry, that's a lot of code to throw at someone, but you have java experience so I don't think it'll feel too foreign to you
here's an event listener as well, for good measure https://github.com/TeamJM/Mappy/blob/master/src/main/kotlin/info/journeymap/mappy/listeners/MessageListener.kt
kotlin has genuinely made java fun for me haha
sand goblet
GitHub? they provide the world's most popular free Git hosting
Git is a version control system - you use it to keep track of all the changes made in a project, and it allows multiple people to work on the same project together
so you can imagine how useful it is to have a place to put all of your projects
golden walrus
kotlin has genuinely made java fun for me haha
looks fun
I think I already shared it, maybe not
sand goblet
There's a few fans of Kotlin around here, so you can always ask one of us if you get stuck, haha
sand goblet
I actually didn't follow any tutorial/video
although the kotlin docs have two tutorials you might be interested in
one is for java developers
golden walrus
it's not really a tutorial, it's why dis is cool
golden walrus
the dude just does this multiple times:
[says something that sucks in Java]
but you don't have to here! look!
sand goblet
hahaha yeah
golden walrus
repeat for 40 minutes
so it's way more interesting than a tutorial, but you don't really learn anything from it
you just become aware of what Kotlin can do
sand goblet
there is one thing I will say
you're using emacs and emacs has some pretty great kotlin plugins
but you may want to try IDEA with it
just purely because jetbrains also make kotlin, the integration is first-class
golden walrus
oh I shouldn't use Emacs as much as I do, I'm just lazy
sand goblet
I actually started trying out emacs today
well, spacemacs
I'm liking it so far but I haven't tried to do any real work in it yet
also it's entirely unviable on windows purely because it takes ages to open some filetypes
golden walrus
always remember to check calendar-lunar-phases
sand goblet
I have the fun layers turned off right now :>
golden walrus
I think there's some Emacs in all that bloatware
sand goblet
haha
but I do wonder why it's so slow
and it's only that slow on windows for me
on linux it's fine
golden walrus
I do not know, I think the syntax highlighting is to blame
sand goblet
it might be, yeah
golden walrus
it works awful, I haven't seen any other editor where it works as bad
sand goblet
it probably has something to do with the reliance on language servers
sand goblet
yeah my spacemacs dotfile has a gigantic last line
and the entire editor just lags when I bring the cursor to it
golden walrus
well, I broke it
sand goblet
\o/
golden walrus
sand goblet
well I'm impressed
golden walrus
I just wanted to test an int blablabla... in C with around 300 characters
golden walrus
I know, but other editors don't slow down like Emacs
sand goblet
yeah, that's what's nuts
IDEA is fucking massive but it's still fast
and that's java, not natively compiled like emacs lisp is
golden walrus
yes, but it's the syntax highlighting
if you disable font-lock-mode it works well
and 5000 characters is still nothing for other editors
Emacs just chokes
sand goblet
What does that mode do again?
spice pelican
#ot1-perplexing-regexing i don't use ubuntu btw.
I use elementary os... and MX Linux... AND FEDORA o:
oh and windows
rough sapphire
discord needs an option to disable annoying gifs from autoplaying
gentle moss
also calling davie504 annoying
oak tangle
gentle moss
not epic
rough sapphire
that's very helpful
oak tangle
I've never heard of davie504
gentle moss
first thing to do when ever using a new chat client
go through all the options
turn off all notifications
rough sapphire
I've never seen that options menu before.. and I've been on discord for n years now
gentle moss
although his casual videos are amusing due to the deadpan and editing
rough sapphire
2 years now
rough sapphire
do you go through the T&C too
gentle moss
i have read the discord T&C but for a different reason
why would you not want to know every option on a client you're using?
gentle moss
i have
gentle moss
reading something for what's applicable to your situation is not the same as knowing it by heart
but i imagine that the CDC aren't allowed to store data using certain services?
or their computational engines shouldn't be relied upon to provide accurate results so shouldn't be used for government research
as like a "fuck you" catch all for government services
oak tangle
not with my memory
rough sapphire
I always thought it was for ha-ha's.. but ok
gentle moss
like how windows and macos both have clauses about not using them for systems that control / manage nuclear weapons and the likes
oak tangle
@gentle moss Ah, just watched Davie504. Yeah, I've seen a video of him before, but I don't like his style.
So, meh
gentle moss
¯_(ツ)_/¯
oak tangle
not for me
rough sapphire
bisk.. come help me in #databases if you're familiar with mysql.. got a quick question
rough sapphire
anyone here familiar with tracking flights? how would I set up alerts if an aircraft passes through some coordinates?
basically, I bought a POS printer and am thinking of fun things to do with it
we get planes flying over us quite close to the ground often
was thinking of printing out each flight's info every time it passes over us
gentle moss
i believe there are free APIs for flight data
it is public information after all
travis whatshisface did a talk about flight tracking i think
hudson?
there's shit like that, i think they have a commercial API
rough sapphire
apparently you can just pick up the signals with a DVB-TV USB stick which i just so happen to have lying around
undone berry
Yeah. I've done some flight tracking stuff, and the two best options are adsb radar in the loft, or a crowd sourcing site called adsb exchange iirc
rough sapphire
alright, cheers
rough sapphire
this was really really really good.. it helped me rationalize so many things from what little understanding I had previously about how people behave and why we do some things https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI8SaUPCvkE @rough sapphire
shell cave
damn there are so many flights
rough sapphire
@shell cave Where are you looking?
shell cave
the link above
rough sapphire
i mean what region
rough sapphire
ahh ok
nimble schooner
rough sapphire
rough sapphire
I use ubuntu for my servers
lime jewel
now accepting recommendations for good ergonomic keyboards/mice anything else you'd suggest for setting up my desk to be more comfortable?
sand goblet
Anker has a nice wireless ergonomic mouse
Microsoft have a few too
but I would say monitor arms and a good chair are more important
lime jewel
cool they had anker mice, and i've got a docking station w monitors
i'm not sure i can request a new chair? but its better than the ones at my last job so i'm not urgently worried about that
i think the biggest thing is a keyboard bc im using the laptop's rn
sand goblet
I use a filco majestouch
which is a rather expensive mechanical keyboard
you do not want a wrist rest for either your mouse or keyboard
your wrist should not rest on anything while you're typing either
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire Just saw this, it looks good. Got a pretty full load this week, but I added it to my YT playlist and will watch it Fri-Sat. Valuetainment is a good channel btw, GaryVee could be too (depending on your interests/goals)
terse sluice
phew i had to install like 4 different versions of docker until it worked..
solid pollen
I did try.. 3 version I think, and none worked :(
sand goblet
Home edition I take it
terse sluice
pro
solid pollen
Whatever version you use on home, it does not work
terse sluice
i had it all setup and i tried on two different pcs with latest version
nothing worked unless i downgraded
sand goblet
Strange
terse sluice
well at least it works now
pine vector
@sand goblet they're littered like that throughout our server. i've never been able to pinpoint a pattern. could be Dyno missing the message grab prior to deletion?
sand goblet
I mean it could have been cache invalidated
But it wasn't very old and we have dyno premium
pine vector
like i said. i've never centered around a pattern. i'm not sure if we have premium, but i'd imagine so.
terse sluice
sigh.. does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? i'm trying to start up the python discord bot using docker-compose
docker.credentials.errors.InitializationError: docker-credential-wincred not installed or not available in PATH
i tried installing that and adding it to path already
sand goblet
You're using an unsupported docker configuration on windows
It's probably not going to work very well
sand goblet
You actually don't need docker for anything but snekbox
It just makes it easier to set up
I think the wiki has a non-docker guide for people on windows
terse sluice
oh ok thanks!
sand goblet
I will say, with HyperV set up, the latest version of docker for Windows should work fine on windows 10 pro
If it doesn't, then your CPU might not support virtualisation features
In which case, docker is never gonna work
terse sluice
it does and i have it setup correctly
no idea why it doesn’t work
it’s on in the bios and windows features
sand goblet
What error did you get, specifically?
terse sluice
i don’t remember exactly, let me do a reinstall of the latest version
sand goblet
That's it?
terse sluice
yep
sand goblet
What are you doing when you get that?
terse sluice
when i try to run docker-compose up
sand goblet
Did you reboot after the install?
terse sluice
yes
sand goblet
What does docker ps get you?
terse sluice
Error response from daemon: Bad response from Docker engine
Do you have the docker engine icon in your system tray?
sand goblet
Ah, yeah, that's what I thought
It can take a little while, especially the first time
You'll get a notification when it's up
sand goblet
It's basically spinning up a Linux VM under HyperV
By the way, I recommend you remove docker from your system startup and just start it yourself when you need it
terse sluice
oh i got the notification
sand goblet
I noticed that my network performance degrades significantly if I leave it running all day
Okay, give it a shot
terse sluice
thank you lol
sand goblet
It's easy to miss that it's starting
Especially since its basically instant on Linux
terse sluice
i haven't used linux for a couple of months ahah
anyway thanks man, have a good night
sand goblet
No worries, have fun haha
sand goblet
I hate tools that force themselves to be on top
Like I couldn't possibly want to do anything else at the same time, right?
solid pollen
Nope, you need to watch the progress bar
Way more entertaining than any other thing you could do with your computer
sand goblet
Naturally
Also I noticed my neck only gets bad on workdays
so I put the laptop on a bigass bento box
this is much better..
sand goblet
this is going to be brutal, but interesting to keep an eye on
In truth, Sonos is fighting for its life. As well as Google and Amazon, Apple and Samsung are piling into the smart speaker / digital assistant market and tightly integrating speakers to their other products. Sonos can’t hope to compete except as a niche brand and as such its best possible defense is wielding its patent portfolio.
rough sapphire
Huh, not the topic I thought it was going to be.
Aren't they the same ones with the "recycle" option that bricks your device?
sand goblet
Yeah, that's them
good idea, bad execution
we have two of their speakers though and they're fantastic
rough sapphire
Eeeehhhhh....
I mean, it's probably one of the worst business executions I can think of
my dad has a Sonos sound system
it sounds amazing but the built in Alexa creeps me the fuck out
"Why don't we make this device impossible to sell in second-hand markets, and instead only making it possible to scrap for parts. It's not like we have an excessive amount of plastic in landfills already."
sand goblet
They don't all have Alexa
none of ours do
well okay, I don't think you know what recycling is Scott, but alright
but yes, they should have allowed people to resell
or at least give to someone else
rough sapphire
Lemme find the article on it, sec
rough sapphire
Oh, correction. It was this guy https://twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1210662988828442624
That preview tho.
sand goblet
I don't really understand how recycling devices is the most environmentally unfriendly tech habit
plenty of hyperbole in that thread
yes, reuse is better
I'd prefer to give/resell an old sonos unit
but if for some reason I can't do that, recycling it and getting the discount isn't a bad option either
they're giving people a reason to not landfill their devices
rough sapphire
Do the devices need to be turned in for this 30% credit?
sand goblet
@rough sapphire you might be amused to hear that Google slurping data through Sonos devices with Assistant built into them is part of their lawsuit
You can recycle them yourself or ship them back to Sonos
you just need to prove it somehow
rough sapphire
@sand goblet that is not amusing
sand goblet
haha
anyway I think Sonos probably has a pretty solid case here
it'll be interesting to see what happens
By the way, hax, Alexa is the only reason my grandparents are able to interact with modern tech lately
it definitely has its uses
Alexa just integrates with fucking everything and it makes things so much easier for them
and it's comforting that if one of them falls down the stairs or something, they can just yell at Alexa for an emergency call to us
they're both in their late 80s after all
rough sapphire
Skynet is going to be terrifying
"Alexa, call *******." "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that."
sand goblet
I feel bad for people that are pessimistic enough to expect something like Skynet haha
they forget that nobody that's actually in the industry wants that
there might be some CEO or polititian that does, but most programmers wouldn't be happy enabling it
solid pollen
Isn’t skynet.. from terminator?
rough sapphire
I mean, both.
@sand goblet It's not so much pessimistic, as it's an interesting concept. It's like looking at cryptocurrencies and knowing a good chunk of them won't exist in their present form once Shor's algo is broken in regards to quantum crypto.
sand goblet
I mean sure, it's an interesting concept
Also yeah quantum tech does threaten lots of crypto, which is a good reason not to get too invested in it
rough sapphire
It's kind of scary cryptocurrency-wise, considering Bitcoin has a huge market. It's too late to not get too invested in it. 
solid pollen
RIP RSA
rough sapphire
Actually, I'm curious as to what the total market is now..
sand goblet
well considering Revolut just added support for crypto
probably pretty big
(UK-based mobile-first "challenger bank")
(one of the good ones!)
rough sapphire
https://www.blockchain.com/charts/market-cap Ah, okay. Only 127 billion USD
solid pollen
I see a lot of article lately about bitcoin about to fall, wonder if it is true
rough sapphire
This is good for Bitcoin
sand goblet
the thing that really pisses me off
and I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me
is that when bitcoin first came around I ended up with about 50 bitcoin in a wallet
and then I was like "nobody will use this" and ended up losing the wallet
haha
fuck.
solid pollen
Congrats
rough sapphire
I mean, you and everyone else had no idea magic internet money was going to become the next big thing
solid pollen
Your wallet is now worth $420.000
rough sapphire
Did something say free money
sand goblet
yes I got them for free through keybase airdrops
solid pollen
I don’t know if you any other crypto money can go as high as bitcoin did
rough sapphire
Can I have some free 💰 please
sand goblet
I mean I don't want it to go as high as bitcoin did
that's missing the point
I want something I can use, not something people use to game the market
Lumens don't work like bitcoin, you can't mine them and they're tied to tokens representing real currencies
rough sapphire
What's the point of that
solid pollen
Bitcoins are still usable
rough sapphire
I remember when they were selling bitcoins as physical coins in Japanese convenience stores..
Should've bought them then.. this was 2017
sand goblet
yes you can spend bitcoin
but it's pointless
eventually all the bitcoin will go to some hoarder
and then it'll devalue and nobody will use it anymore
we need crypto backed by a real currency to avoid that
or in the case of lumens, backed by all the currencies
honestly I haven't seen crypto with as much promise as lumens
it's not usable as part of a moneymaking racket and that's why people will use it in the end
frosty berry
crypto backed by a "real" currency (i guess you mean a state-backed currency), is missing the entire point of the innovation brought by bitcoin, that gave it its value
i agree the energy cost of bitcoin is over what it should considering its current social utility, but it's not tied to the number of usage, so it could totally scale 100x from where it's now and not consumme more
sand goblet
the problem is that crypto that you can't cash out is useless
frosty berry
of course you can
sand goblet
if you're a business that accepts bitcoin, you're not buying more crypto
frosty berry
there are buyers, or it wouldn't have a price
sand goblet
you're taking payments in bitcoin and then you're cashing it out
tired osprey
if you cash your crypto out you loose your anonymity though
frosty berry
yes, a lot of people do that, and that's fine
if your business can't take the risk that comes from the volatility, by all mean, do that if you want to accept bitcoins
rough sapphire
@tired osprey Except cryptocurrency isn't anonymous outside of small subsets, like Monero.
Taint analysis is very much a thing
frosty berry
you shouldn't use bitcoin for anonymity yes
sand goblet
If businesses are just cashing out their bitcoin then at some point the bitcoin exchanges are going to own all of the bitcoin
frosty berry
that doesn't sound correct
sand goblet
well, yeah, in a sense, it's not correct
because at some point before that there won't be enough in circulation to make accepting it worthwhile
frosty berry
exchanges just hold currencies that people exchange on them, and then people can move them around
rough sapphire
Yeah, exchanges sell and buy.
sand goblet
I don't see why a consumer would ever buy bitcoin though
frosty berry
there are definitely a lot of people hoarding them, just like there are a lot of people hoarding dollars
rough sapphire
Multiple reasons
frosty berry
and the amount that circulate is much smaller than it should
but you can still have an economy
rough sapphire
Being paid in Bitcoin in places like Venezeula is very much a thing.
frosty berry
if anything, the infinitely fractionnable bitcoin is much more adapted to such an economy
sand goblet
until companies across the world start paying employees in bitcoin, I don't see it being viable in the long run
Venezeula does that? That's pretty neat
frosty berry
well, venezuelians do that
sand goblet
but it's kind of volatile, I don't think I'd want to be paid in bitcoin
frosty berry
as the economy is such in a bad shape that the official money is less stable
sand goblet
It makes sense in that case then, yeah
rough sapphire
less stable is a more professional way of putting it, sure.
frosty berry
yeah, that's certainly a nice understatement
sand goblet
if I was to start a new job here in Ireland and they wanted to pay me in bitcoin
first of all I'd be suspicious, lol
but secondly I'd wonder what I could actually do with that bitcoin
rough sapphire
Notice how Venezuela isn't in the new anymore
sand goblet
aside from cashing it out.. there isn't much
rough sapphire
It's like Cuba now
frosty berry
i didn't live through any hyperinlation economy, but i think i can understand how bad it must be
hm, venezuela was in the news for me yesterday
sand goblet
like I can't eat bitcoin and I can't buy my groceries with it either
frosty berry
with revolut you can
sand goblet
No
rough sapphire
Ooh
sand goblet
Not exactly
frosty berry
(and probably others)
rough sapphire
Didn't know revolut was still around.. I know those guys
sand goblet
You can only convert to and from fiat currency
rough sapphire
@sand goblet I'm not saying that Alexa doesn't have its uses - it wouldn't be such a popular product otherwise - but I find the whole "tee hee were always listening ;)" aspect of it unnerving
frosty berry
it doesn't pay in whatever currency you want from a crypto account?
rough sapphire
Fiat currency?
sand goblet
fiat currency, as in, euros, dollars, whatever
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire wish normal consumers would have that apprehension..
sand goblet
Well the problem is you can't get crypto directly into that account @frosty berry
frosty berry
ok
rough sapphire
Afaik there are some apps in JP that let you do that
sand goblet
There are bitcoin debit cards out there
frosty berry
bitstamp.net has bitcoin backed cards
rough sapphire
Let me try to look them up later..
sand goblet
I suspect they charge an additional fee, but they do exist
frosty berry
so you can withdraw at the atm, from your account, and probably pay in shops with it as well
sand goblet
If revolut finishes their crypto implementation then I could actually see myself using bitcoin
rough sapphire
I used to have a Revolut and Monzo account. Now that I've pentested a couple of popular internet banks (cannot name which), I've decided to seriously start avoiding putting my money into any online bank, considering how seriously insecure those things are
sand goblet
but again, it's so volatile
frosty berry
though i didn't try it, it might be more complicated than that
sand goblet
I could get paid tomorrow and then the next day it'll be worth 70%
frosty berry
@sand goblet yes, that's a problem for usage, speculation is not helping it
sand goblet
I have a Revolut account and an N26 account but I'm gonna close N26
frosty berry
i opened an n26 for business, but didn't use it much as my main work restricts my habilities to do that, (and time is a factor as well), so i'm probably going to close it as well
sand goblet
I don't use revolut primarily
but I would like to
I'm just not sure about it yet
I don't like my current bank, they kind of suck
apparently n26 would be the more secure option
revolut aren't using their banking license yet
but n26 doesn't allow you to have both a personal and a business account
and their business accounts are just for freelancers
ugh, the box idea was a good one, my neck is much happier
why do people even use laptops
sinful turtle
Are you allowed to make a discord app for a device that doesn't currently have an official one, or does that violate the ToS?
rough sapphire
@sand goblet computing in small spaces/on the move.
rough sapphire
I've always used a riser for a laptop or an external screen for longer term usage.
worn rampart
@sinful turtle they've generally frowned on third party clients from what i've heard, but they don't seem to take legal action against such projects
iirc they may violate the ToS and be bannable, but it's also bad pr to ban enthusiastic users
sinful turtle
Oh ok, I probably won't then
worn rampart
what device?
sinful turtle
Pebble time steel (an old smartwatch)
worn rampart
https://old.reddit.com/r/discordapp/comments/8tukek/ripcord_unofficial_native_discord_client_no/e1toruy/?context=8&depth=9&st=k559v8ma&sh=0e258317 this is from a year ago, it got people mad
sinful turtle
If you don't use the API but instead make a kind of 'wrapper' / display around the actual website, is that allowed?
worn rampart
i'd read the ToS in depth but my guess is they'd discourage it
sinful turtle
ok
worn rampart
there were issues with userscript extensions that stole data in the past
i think the safest route would be to build a bot that sent notifications to a watch
but that might not be viable for what you want to do
rough sapphire
a guy I know made VitaCord, a homebrew discord client for the PS Vita
he never got into any trouble for it, and if I remember correctly, the project was even mentioned by discord staff in a positive light
but, take this with a grain of salt, my memory is hazy
modern island
okay so, anyone?
solid pollen
Here!
rough sapphire
Like obviously a pro is you can write good quality code faster in python because of lesser keywords.
But what is the cons
solid pollen
Every language have their use case, you can't really compare them
Cons of python? The speed and the fact that it is interpreted I think
modern island
There is one, main, god damn huge con: speed
plucky ridge
It's not even about the keywords
rough sapphire
The speed of compiling the code or the code speed itself?
sand goblet
I just wanna say
plucky ridge
A lot of it is due to the huge number of useful libraries and no need to compile all the time
solid pollen
Well, try to build a bootloader in python
plucky ridge
That's only part of it
plucky ridge
There is a lot of overhead that Python takes care of that we don't have to deal with
modern island
mhm
solid pollen
Everything is an- arg dam !
rough sapphire
So python code in general is slow?
modern island
not really
plucky ridge
Not necessarily
modern island
yep
plucky ridge
And it really depends on your use case for stuff
solid pollen
But you need to keep in mind that most of the compute-heavy libraries (like numpy) actually use C
rough sapphire
For a program to run efficiently is speed important?
solid pollen
Not necessarily
modern island
@solid pollen they finally god damn understood that you don’t want to include the entire iostream to just print something in C++, haha
plucky ridge
Total time from starting to write it to execution completion could in theory be faster in Python than other languages
A lot of people focus heavily on execution speed but don't factor how long it took them to write it
solid pollen
\o/
rough sapphire
I mean if a program doesnt work is it mainly because of the speed is slow or can there be other problems?
solid pollen
I can cross one line of my 2689 elements list of why I shouldn't use C++
modern island
do it
rough sapphire
If a program crashes is it because the speed is too slow or did it just crash?
shadow jetty
modern island
you either have viruses or a program is really expensive in memory or your computer is eh, no offense
solid pollen
It could be because it is not memory-efficient enough though