yeah i've had troubles when my db got around these numbers too
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
frosty berry
vestal briar
If it's a shop that users can add things to and gets ton of traffic with needs of scaling, sqlite isn't going to cut it
gentle moss
people have been asking the project to allow different databases for it to work at scale but they're like
frosty berry
but starting a postgresql instance is easy peasy, so unless the coded things to only work on sqlite, they should really look into switching
gentle moss
"nah, that'd make it less portable."
frosty berry
rather be unusable than less portable, ok
gentle moss
quite.
solid pollen
No, users cannot add things, it would be around 200 articles and 100 users i think
gentle moss
so at some point i'm just going to archive off a bunch of historic tickets into a small custom system
vestal briar
Hm, basically everyone would be having the same problems
solid pollen
How large the db would be?
frosty berry
(and even that is debatable, i mean, if you want to be portable, you make sure your code can run on multiple dbs, you abstract that away with an orm and stay careful, especially about data model creation code)
vestal briar
Also it isn't less portable if you allow it to choose between sqlite and pg
Not an argument there really
gentle moss
i can see why they're too lazy to bother
frosty berry
wordpress officially still only run on mysql >_>
if you are too lazy just admit it, it's fine, don't come up with bad excuses 🙂
gentle moss
agreed
vestal briar
Does wordpress even get many new features nowadays
gentle moss
yes
solid pollen
So.. Shall I try to use postgres anyway?
frosty berry
postgres is really nice, good to learn it.
vapid bluff
@gentle moss do they store the entirety of the tickets in the db?
gentle moss
yes
frosty berry
full text search on that must be fun 🙂
gentle moss
it takes ages
frosty berry
504 gateway timeout ❤️
sinful turtle
I made this raycasting thing in lua
rough sapphire
I posted this last time we had this OT-name
DO has since fucked up and I had to restart my machine, rip
sinful turtle
rip
rough sapphire
@sinful turtle that's really cool dog
frosty berry
you could use glsl to implement it on the gpu
gentle moss
oh such a nob
sat here waiting for scheduled tasks to fail like "hmm doesn't make sense"
no browser or driver in the container
duuuuhhhh
vestal briar
What to do when a break cable is too short on a bike
gentle moss
buy a longer one
vestal briar
But in the meantime
gentle moss
put your foot on the wheel
pine vector
zip ties. they'll hold. plomise.
gentle moss
front or rear?
vestal briar
I managed to get it tighened a tiny bit but it's way too loose still
Rear
Rim brakes
vestal briar
Cable is frayed with no cap on so I think someone must have snipped it and got it on just about once they realised?
gentle moss
have you tried this?
vestal briar
I'm not sure my shoe is going to save me going down a hill
vestal briar
By accident on a bike ajacent to mine
gentle moss
and if my shoe can slow me down while skating i'm sure it's fine on a bike
hill bombing is some craaaazy shit mang
vestal briar
Doing mountain bike related activities
pine vector
until your shoe gets dragged... then. yay!
vestal briar
Best way to emergancy break is to break the chain by pedaling as fast as possible so it goes into the wheel
pine vector
i mean if your hitting the hills and trees, buy a new cable. its like putting only one lug nut on a car wheel... an inevitable losing situation.
vestal briar
Yeah
vestal briar
I wonder if I could push it along a bit more with pliars
pine vector
humans. we're not as smart as we think.
vestal briar
For now
gentle moss
uhh... the stick in the wheel was a joke because the brake cable on his bike snapped.
the gif was a reaction to python 2.7 being installed by something in a container i was building.
very much not memes.
rough sapphire
are u sure its not system related?
gentle moss
yeah, pretty sure the new ubuntu:latest from docker doesn't have it by default
i have a feeling it'll be something like chromium-browser or some such
rough sapphire
lol
if 'Joke' == 'Meme':
print('True!')
elif 'Joke' not 'Meme':
print('No............')``` Output: `True!` @gentle moss(the retro 80 cyber thing yesterday though :P)
rough sapphire
send ur mom pics
gentle moss
the use of a meme format in making an actual joke is fine
frosty berry
i think the rule of thumb is that you can't randomly dump memes
rough sapphire
pls don't demotise me
frosty berry
if a meme actually fits the conversation, it'll usually be ok
rough sapphire
i want to self harm
frosty berry
please don't
but if you want to talk about things, that can be a place for it i think
there are certainly places more devoted to that, and people ready to help you, but i'm sure there are some people ready for that about everywhere
depression is no fun, and people suffering from it are often more loved than they imagine, and more necessary to the world than they think
rough sapphire
I mean suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure i'm not really ready to take responsability of having a girlfriend
but meh
i think i'll overwork it
Well now that's great i don't need an account to upload files
frosty berry
people are not ready in general, for things they do, and they mess up often
still, a lot of it turns ok, and a lot of things get done, the thing is to be ready to make mistake and fix them, ask for advice when needed, etc, you are not alone, everybody is wondering if they are doing ok
(maybe some don't, they are psychopaths i guess)
rough sapphire
Eh
i think i need attention or my perverted mind just wants one thing...............
solid pollen
Ran 3 tests in 0.001s
FAILED (failures=4)```
You can fail more tests than you ran apparently
pine vector
that when you know you're doing it right. 😄
primal badger
Is there a way of getting fun colors without becoming staff/partner?
opaque anchor
Not that I know of.
solid pollen
You can contribute to open source pydis' project, or be a patreon or a nitro booster
Or be a good helper
primal badger
@solid pollen Where can I find info about the pydis project?
solid pollen
Here they are https://github.com/python-discord
There is a various number of project, depending on your skill level
primal badger
What color doss it give
solid pollen
Green
primal badger
Ooo
solid pollen
The color that I have :D
primal badger
I dont see where you can choose skill lebels etc, do I just click on the pinned files?
solid pollen
We have two discord bot, a website, and two django packages
Well, are you familiar with django or discord.py?
primal badger
Im not fammiliar with discord.py but I do have some experience with discord.net C# and a small experience with simple web apps @solid pollen
solid pollen
Well, we have our entry level fun stuff bot @median dome, our intermediate level utility bot @royal lake, and our advanced level site https://pythondiscord.com
That is up to you
primal badger
Ok so do I find thr SeasonalBot info in the got you posted above?
solid pollen
You can take a look at the repo README (although I don't think there is a lot of information here) https://github.com/python-discord/seasonalbot or on the setup guide https://pythondiscord.com/pages/contributing/seasonalbot/
If you have any questions, you can ask in #dev-contrib ^^
primal badger
So do you need to like create a branch of changes in the git, solving the problems that are approved, and how many probalems do you need to solve? @solid pollen
That might be fun, but I think Ill stick to learning more about web applications and general stuff before moving to that.
primal badger
Ty
solid pollen
@primal badger you can find the problems (or feature requests or whatever) in the issues tab (with the label "Status : approved"), then you'd need to fork the project, commit your changes in a new branch, and then open a PR
Let me know when you want to get back to it ^^
primal badger
Im going tk have to read more into it as well as what PR and a Fork means
ebon quarry
i need something to pkill -STOP discord when i tab out and pkill -CONT discord when I tab back in
this battery usage is horrifying
tulip palm
you're a programmer, volcyy. you have the power! :^)
ebon quarry
no idea how to hook into quartz display events
tulip palm
yes but you can l e a r n
sinful copper
discord just needs to release an official "lo-fi" client
for people with less powerful computers or battery constraints
pine vector
but those people aren't gamers.... don't you game? 😄
rough sapphire
That would be great. There's a lot of features that most people probably don't use on Discord.
tulip palm
stares loudly at light theme
actually, that would hurt.
(and i'm kidding, by the way)
vestal briar
3rd party clients?
rough sapphire
Except those are against the ToS.
vestal briar
Not tos-ey I know
But it's sort of the solution here; discord will never go out of one unified client so it's the only option
rough sapphire
I don't think using a third-party client that could get your account banned on Discord, or any server, is the right course of action here. Discord isn't exactly like IRC.
vestal briar
Unfortunatly it's the only course of action for getting rid of an electron desktop app for discord
raven folio
Idk that much about coding but my friend said he wanted to learn coding so imma teach him what I know today
WIsh me luck
summer knot
Send him our way if either of you get stuck
raven folio
I will
sand goblet
here we go again https://www.thejournal.ie/women-only-professorships-not-discriminating-against-men-4954183-Jan2020/?utm_source=shortlink
I wonder how they're actually planning to pay for this
they are "additional" meaning they're not replacing other professorships
universities make bank here but it's still said a lot that educational institutes are underfunded here
I dunno
undone berry
I think it is almost by definition discriminating against men
the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex..
It might not be unjust, but it is prejudicial.
I don't even think its necessarily a bad thing, but positive discrimination should be called that, not shied away from
sand goblet
I mean, I don't really support any kind of discrimination
regardless of whether it's positive or not, someone is getting screwed
undone berry
I'm not really sure. It definitely is discrimination, but the case for positive discrimination in some areas is one I can understand
sand goblet
for context, we also have gender quotas in third level educational roles here
undone berry
But also the case against all discrimination is one I understand
sand goblet
if a university doesn't have at least 50% female teaching staff, they get their funding cut
which explains the disparity in percentages in the article I think
undone berry
I think its quite likely universities would be better/nicer places to work and study if the gender balance was more equal - but is the way to fix it by forcing with shitty mechanism
sand goblet
the reasoning just doesn't line up for me
We know, for example, that our girls are scoring very highly in maths and chemistry and physics in their Leaving Certificate. They’re then going into university… they are actually getting better results,” said Mitchell O’Connor.
so surely then more of them should be seeking professorships?
undone berry
Yeah, it seems best to me to just actively encourage women/girls/females/the-most-pc-term to enter the field, without forcing it and hope the balance fixes itself over time
sand goblet
A lot of this is interesting to me because Ireland doesn't really have this kind of problem in the modern world
there was this thing about women being underpaid by RTE, which is basically our answer to the BBC in the UK
RTE lost a court case about this
but what I find interesting is that no figures or other forms of proof were ever released to the public
or if they were, they were buried, that's for sure
that's pretty much the only real discrimination case I can think of in recent years
undone berry
I can definitely accept there are problems in some areas with this kind of thing - but the way it gets pushed by some, and the proposed solutions in some areas just seem crazy
like this one
sand goblet
the other thing here is like
I doubt academic women want this kind of advantage
as a female professor pointed out in a piece in the Irish Independent (newspaper), women taking these posts will likely be mocked and thought of as achieving the post by favouritism
but I really can't see any professor wanting an advantage outside of their own hard work anyway
undone berry
Yeah, exactly - and the women who genuinely earned it already will/could feel devalued by peers having it seemingly handed to them
what I just said is dumb
ignore that
undone berry
I think you just made the point better than me with what you said
sand goblet
haha, fair
what I also find amusing is that in second level and primary education, the field is mostly dominated by women
same thing for childcare
nobody wants a male babysitter
undone berry
Yeah, the other side of things never gets talked about. Pretty much anything involving children is vastly female dominated, nursing, and some other fields also - but you don't really see any push for balance their
even though I think the case for balance is almost as strong
sand goblet
the individual institutions do push for equality there in some cases
for example, schools for special needs kids
which makes sense, because it's more appropriate for a male kid to be changed by a male special needs assistant
solid pollen
Positive discrimination?
sand goblet
bit of an oxymoron really
my generation grew up with "discrimination is bad" being a core part of our education
undone berry
I think the definition for positive discrimination is less saying its explicitly good, more saying "This is a choice we are making, not accidental"
sand goblet
so maybe they should call it what it is
"intentional discrimination"
sounds harsher when you spell it out, doesn't it
haha
solid pollen
Dunno, I probably don't spell it correctly 😄
F**, forgot to lint!
E:\PyDis\code-jam-6-qualifier>pipenv run lint
.\tests\test_advanced.py:2:1: I100 Import statements are in the wrong order. 'from datetime import datetime' should be before 'from tests.unit import TestRequirements' and in a different group.
.\tests\test_advanced.py:2:1: I201 Missing newline between import groups. 'from datetime import datetime' is identified as Stdlib and 'from tests.unit import TestRequirements' is identified as Third Party.
.\tests\test_basic.py:2:1: I100 Import statements are in the wrong order. 'from datetime import datetime' should be before 'from tests.unit import TestRequirements' and in a different group.
.\tests\test_basic.py:2:1: I201 Missing newline between import groups. 'from datetime import datetime' is identified as Stdlib and 'from tests.unit import TestRequirements' is identified as Third Party.
.\tests\test_tz.py:2:1: I100 Import statements are in the wrong order. 'from datetime import datetime, timedelta, timezone' should be before 'from tests.unit import TestRequirements' and in a different group.
.\tests\test_tz.py:2:1: I201 Missing newline between import groups. 'from datetime import datetime, timedelta, timezone' is identified as Stdlib and 'from tests.unit import TestRequirements' is identified as Third Party.
.\tests\unit.py:9:27: TYP101 Missing type annotation for self in method
.\tests\unit.py:9:33: TYP201 Missing return type annotation for public function```That was unexpectedWell.. I forgot 😄
I'm not a math specialist.. But that's wrong, right?
>>> 30.5 / 1
30.5
>>> 30.5 % 1
0.5```30.5 % 1 should be 0, right?
opaque anchor
@solid pollen I don't think so.
I think it's right.
It gave you the remainder, which is .5, didn't it?
As .5 was the extra?
opaque anchor
I finally added classes.
rough sapphire
Don't forget to __init__ it
opaque anchor
cls = class({
x = 5;
y = 2;
__construct__ = (self, a) => {
self.a = a;
}
})
inst = ?cls(5);```i so wanted to say that
rough sapphire
Congrats
opaque anchor
Not inheritance though.
rough sapphire
but what language is that
opaque anchor
It's my own language I'm working on. I call it "Quazi"
rough sapphire
Make sense
opaque anchor
It's meant to only have expressions.
It only has expressions. The exception to that is assignment, but even then, that can be wrapped in a code block (which is an expression) to become one
x = 5 <- statement
?{x = 5} <- expression
rough sapphire
so its pretty similar to python
torpid panther
GUYS ITS HAPPENING!!!!!!
rough sapphire
WW3 ?
torpid panther
Hes here!!!!
opaque anchor
Who is?
torpid panther
HIM!
opaque anchor
Can you specify who 'him' is?
rough sapphire
OMG TRUMP GONNA KILL EVERYONE
sand goblet
oh, hey
rough sapphire
Is that apple mac refrence
sand goblet
you're a few days late
torpid panther
THE MEATBALLS ARE LEAVING
opaque anchor
Oh my!
torpid panther
THE MEATBALLS HAVE BEEN EATEN
opaque anchor
Who has done this?
rough sapphire
OH NOOOOOOO
opaque anchor
This is horrible!
opaque anchor
Anyways back to classes
rough sapphire
That's not ok :C
opaque anchor
cls = class({
x = 5;
y = 2;
__construct__ = (self, a) => {
self.a = a;
}
})
inst = ?cls(5);```Yes, it does have some similarities to Python.
It's made in Python.
torpid panther
its not me
rough sapphire
not that
sand goblet
Sigh. <@&267629731250176001>.
rough sapphire
not that
zinc sail
!ban 621853657243058206
royal lakeBOT
:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @torpid panther permanently.
rough sapphire
maybe he is not lying
sand goblet
nah, he is
rough sapphire
people react differently in panic
sand goblet
this is the internet, AG
rough sapphire
let me tell what happened
sand goblet
it was a dark and stormy night
rough sapphire
and terrifying too
sand goblet
"Hey you. You're finally awake."
gentle moss
rise and shine, Mr Gdude, rise... and shine.
sand goblet
I hope you don't wish.. to imply that I have been sleeping on.. the job
gentle moss
no one is more deserving of a rest
i'm just saying that all the effort in the world would have gone to waste
until...
well, we'll just say your time has come again.
sand goblet
Well, they do say that the right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world
I guess it's time to wake up.. and smell the ashes
gentle moss
yea, i think you put the toast in for too long
sand goblet
haha
gentle moss
in terms of linear game and amount of replays, that's by far the highest
sand goblet
I actually didn't enjoy it that much
It's a great tech demo though
oh god this noita run
I have been given the "speedrunner magician" class
no attack spells, only teleport
oh boy
oh, AND I have teleportitis
wonderful
gentle moss
oh god no
HL2 was excellent
decent character expression?
use of a physics engine (although poorly) to add to problem solving?
the most insane bunnyhopping?
every jump timed right increased your velocity by a portion of original speed
so if you could jump say, every microsecond, every "hit" of a ramp
crazy speed growth
then you could use those player clips across objects, like railway tracks, to just gain shit loads of speed
rough sapphire
@sand goblet once said HL3 is never gonna come
rough sapphire
bhopping is my fav thing
gentle moss
one of the most hilariously broken bunnyhopping mechanisms
rough sapphire
was so easy back in the days
gentle moss
how old are you again?
tame pier
now take that speed and put it in VR
rough sapphire
ahh
tame pier
gonna be a wild ride
rough sapphire
nahh not gonna happen
tame pier
i have a Rift
rough sapphire
alyx uses newer source engine
tame pier
will probably pick up the game once it's discounted
rough sapphire
back in 1.6 time @gentle moss
gentle moss
i'm still curious about what AG considers "back in the days"
ahhh
like 00 and 01 or so
rough sapphire
source was also a golden time
gentle moss
i did CAL (US league) during source
and worked with the guy who made ZBlock to help anti-cheat efforts
rough sapphire
until valve lowered the chance of BHOPPING
ok you wanna see some crazy bhop in HL ?
@gentle moss
rough sapphire
search desinc
gentle moss
for like 3 years
rough sapphire
his HL content == golden
gentle moss
"teleport this dude by putting a chinese takeout thing on his head."
i was part of the original group that discovered a lot of the HL2 bugs for speed running
:P
i also discovered a lot of the Source engine exploits for CS:S and other multiplayer games.
kind of my wheel house
sand goblet
goddamn I actually finished the game for the first time with that build
teleport wand, teleportitis
OP
gentle moss
the intro you could cut easily off 2 minutes by smacking people on the head with objects
to make them jump to the next AI node
frosty berry
yeah, i remember seeing a speedrun showing that, after i had done it the long way
gentle moss
first play through of HL2
i jumped through that window after barney told me to
i stepped on a cinderblock
got stuck
tried to wiggle out
was thrown into the ceiling at like 100000000000m/s and died
that was just a normal play through
frosty berry
i had found a trick to avoid the helicopter at the barrage, used the boat to speed against a wall and jump the other side
gentle moss
at that point i knew the game was broken enough to exploit massively
so looked into speed running groups
do love me some speed runs
grew up on Q3Defrag
rough sapphire
I have issue with HL2 its color scheme make my eyes hurt
its still half done
not episodes
gentle moss
it's one of the first "super" high resolution texture games
with some what of an attempt at real time lighting
combination of pre-compiled lightmaps and real time rendering
quite impressive for uhhh
rough sapphire
doesnt source have a limitation
gentle moss
it was pre-compiled
rough sapphire
yeah
gentle moss
but allowed augmentation of the lightmap in real time
flash lights etc
it's stilled based off the quake engine though
gentle moss
which explains why a lot of the things like air turning and velocity gain exist
rough sapphire
sound system is mostly like quake
gentle moss
no.
rough sapphire
BETA release
gentle moss
gldsrc is still heavily modified quake engine
and the sound engine wasn't something lifted
the quake sound engine was awful
fossil solar
yo
gentle moss
growing up in the Q1 engine the Half-Life stuff felt so similar
was good fun having some kind of "advantage"
@rough sapphire
rough sapphire
yes ?
gentle moss
here's an example of some of the stuff i did in Q3CPMA for fun
fast caps, defrag, speed runs of q1, etc, etc
rough sapphire
ahh what just happpened
gentle moss
i captured a flag in ~5.2 seconds
rough sapphire
Did you play tf2?
gentle moss
don't really like it
i played the original QWTF and then TFC
followed by Q3F
they all had uhhh... more depth
much higher skill cap
gentle moss
eh... dislike
in terms of quake i'm pretty purist
my casual modes were stuff like this
fine, don't embed.
rough sapphire
Thats pretty sweet.
rough sapphire
Jumps through entire enemy team. Takes 5 damage.
gentle moss
i still think i can single segment speedrun Quake 1 in about 30 minutes
my best was ~20 - 21 minutes
was always aiming for sub 20
example of one of my finest and most enjoyable moments from a game mode
time the water gren jump to steal quad and then get a kill. 😙 👌
solid pollen
Hi @frosty berry, you're a vim user, right?
hollow leaf
❤️ vi/ee
solid pollen
Oh hey nix, well I have a lot of questions, but Google can answer most of them haha (not gonna bother you with line "how do we go at the end of the line"), I just wanted to know which plug-ins are you using (Google can't really answer that one :>). I like vim so far, but I feel like I'm kinda inefficient right now, like for example it doesn't let me add a blank line at the end of the line, I need to redirect a blank echo into the file to add it (yes, it is a janky solution :P) :)
tired osprey
.....thats.....interesting
why not just o?
for my plugins
@solid pollen also, like this? https://asciinema.org/a/rEnUc953cFHPLfzGXQhYHn8hg
tired osprey
eeeeh
its my .zshrc from work
i could of course configure my dotdrop repo so it excludes a bunch of keys when i deploy on my home machine
but meh
not worth the effort
rough sapphire
or you could just redirect stderr to /dev/null
solid pollen
Well, it is doesn't work if I doit that way
Maybe one of my plug-in is blocking it
But thanks for your dotfiles!
And... o?
sand goblet
that is the problem with vim plugins, yeah
big and hacky
get a lesser-used one and it can break a lot of things
undone berry
genuinely baffles me that people today still learn vim when they don't need to live in the terminal
even if you never want your hands to leave the keyboard, there are modern alternatives
sand goblet
it baffles me that people still learn vim for programming when emacs exists
although I agree with you
solid pollen
I do live in a terminal
undone berry
I feel like the main reason a lot of people live in the terminal - definitely not all, but some - is a kind of modern digital hipsterism
tired osprey
so
rough sapphire
@undone berry I learned because the devices I pentest or otherwise work on often only include vi as an editor, and I started using it in other places just because of how efficient I became in it and how lightweight of an editor it is compared to graphical alternatives
80% of my work is "in the terminal"
undone berry
Thats reasonable; you seem like you have a reason to have learned it in the first place
rough sapphire
I don't get why people don't seem to ever use nano.
so I have to live there whether I like it (I do) or not
undone berry
Yeah, I learned the basics of Vim, and couldn't see that much advantage of it over nano
for the tiny amount of time where I need to use a terminal editor
tired osprey
@solid pollen o in normal mode is the command to open a new line
@undone berry i do live in the terminal....we dont even have any other editors than vim or emacs on our dev servers
@sand goblet if the server youre working on has so little RAM it can barely even highlight the bigger perl files in your repo how are you gonna run your dozens of helpful emacs plugins on it?
rough sapphire
Is vim good to program in?
tired osprey
yes
rough sapphire
Subl has been all I need.
sand goblet
@tired osprey that literally has nothing to do with anything I said
haha
sublime is basically the gui equivalent of vim
tired osprey
youre saying emacs over vim
sand goblet
yes, because the emacs ecosystem was actually designed with integrated programming tools in mind
rough sapphire
sublime is also proprietary software
sand goblet
rather than a bunch of shell scripts hacked together
tired osprey
emacs is only good with the dozens of plugins it has, if you dont have enough RAM and resources for any plugins youre not gonna get any advantage if youre using emacs over vim
how is vim a bunch of shell scripts hacked together
tired osprey
yes
constantly
every day
last time about 5 minutes ago
last time professionally on friday
sand goblet
OK, how many plugins do you use that call on external tools?
tired osprey
and that is?
sand goblet
"I'm already in the shell, all I have to do is CTRL+Z"
tired osprey
well, i just dont need anything that calls external tools
i dont need to ctrl+z except if i wanna build an image
and if im building an image of our code i can just leave vim over all
sand goblet
To be fair, you're writing perl, which is an ecosystem I'm not familiar with
tired osprey
oh i fucking hate writing perl^^
tired osprey
yeah but i dont use it
tired osprey
perlcritic is uh disregarded among the perl people at work
we had a long talk about that in a meeting once
sand goblet
by the way, how many of your plugins are written using pure vimscript?
tired osprey
all of them
sand goblet
do you know vimscript?
tired osprey
yes
tired osprey
yes
tired osprey
yeah sometimes its a tag i know
sand goblet
I'll let you figure it out though, since I'm not super familiar with vimscript
tired osprey
but i rarely write vimscript
tired osprey
anyways, yes everything i use is written in pure vimscript
grave phoenix
baz moment
tired osprey
if i write something that has a good language server (aka not perl) i use vim lsc which is a pure vimscript language server client that yes calls an external program like any other editor that calls a language server
tired osprey
and i also call tagbar....which is a tool with multiple implementations, one of them coming from emacs so thats a tool that emacs also calls internally
sand goblet
it seems kind of useless to be honest
tired osprey
everything else stays in the vim process
sand goblet
it doesn't even perform well
tired osprey
performs well enough for me
sand goblet
a common thing another vim user I know yells about is linters locking up the editor, but I feel like that's going to depend on the plugin
as in, if it's not written in vimscript, it shouldn't do that
(no threading in vimscript)
frosty berry
@solid pollen i did map enter to o<esc> to easily insert lines from normal mode. but i'm not sure about the question you had, is it from insert mode or normal mode you can't add a new line?
sand goblet
and you have to wonder why vim has a bespoke language for this
sand goblet
it's a pretty common issue from what I've heard
frosty berry
not that i care about having a vim vs emacs vs the world war right now, but please don't talk bad about tools you don't like if others people like them and use them, that's fine with them
tired osprey
not that its not possible or available
rough sapphire
threading
more like
dreading computers with more than 1 core
solid pollen
Hemmmm, insert mode I think ? When I save the file, the line disappear though
sand goblet
so now you have to care about the actual implementation of the plugins you use, though?
tired osprey
@solid pollen thats one of your plugins then, definitely not normal vim behaviour
frosty berry
i have tons of vim plugins, some in vimscript, some in python, and it's fine, and i can use a bare vim, and it's fine
tired osprey
i cant use python plugins for vim at work 😭
frosty berry
😦
tired osprey
one of our servers has python support disabled for vim sniff
frosty berry
oh when i work on a server i usually use the bare vim, i'm not supposed to be doing that too much, code should get there from the CD, not from me editing it
it's usually more to investigate an issue or confirm a hypothesis
tired osprey
uh yeah problem is im on that server most of the time^^
frosty berry
yeah, that sounded like a lot more planning than i expected 😄
tired osprey
tomorrow is a free day and the rest 4 days of the week Ill be sitting in another room at work with around half of all the other devs, being allowed to do whatever we want
while getting paid for it
yay
@rough sapphire youre gonna be my reminder in 8 days to do that!
sand goblet
I have to say
jagged fog
being allowed to do whatever we want
while getting paid for it 
solid pollen
!remind ? :>
sand goblet
I always wondered why there was no market for similar tools in the cui market as there is in the GUI market
Because most of the things a tool like, say, PyCharm does isn't really something you couldn't convey in a terminal, right?
tired osprey
@jagged fog yes, we can literally sit around for 4 days, working on whatever we want
sand goblet
Emacs and spaceemacs exist but they demand that you relearn how an editor works
I dunno, it just strikes me as odd
jagged fog
what's the occassion?
tired osprey
uh
frosty berry
can't cron or atremind you?
jagged fog
I didn't read up, is it mentioned
frosty berry
@sand goblet what do you think pycharm does that an advanced configuration of vim or emacs (both with plugins), can't do?
undone berry
let you edit code without relearning the way editors work
tired osprey
the point is that pycharm has it builtin
rough sapphire
@tired osprey give me attention bro
tired osprey
but he always says exactly that when i bring up your points
frosty berry
if there was no market, there wouldn't be the plugins
undone berry
Requiring the user to build their own editor isn't inherently a good thing
sand goblet
@frosty berry Be intuitive from the start
frosty berry
haha, yeah, i used pycharm recently, intuitive, right
sand goblet
Well it's not intuitive to a vim user obviously, yeah
undone berry
which is different to anything else
frosty berry
as any tool of this power, you have to learn it
sand goblet
But you have to learn it less
tired osprey
i dont see how for example having to define your own configuration wiht your interpeter path etc to execute your code is intuitive
undone berry
Not really - you can use it then stumble across random cool things as you find them
sand goblet
If you've used word or notepad or vs code or whatever, it works in basically the same way
frosty berry
you are just agreeing, it's a cultural thing, hence, it's not intuitive
tired osprey
thats literally how i learn vim @undone berry
undone berry
no its not
tired osprey
yes it is
sand goblet
It could well be a cultural thing, sure, but that isn't the point
undone berry
you have to sit through a tutorial to learn vim
tired osprey
then whenever i notice i repeat something i think
undone berry
whereas in pycharm
undone berry
the play button runs code
frosty berry
in vim too you can stumble accross cool things, all the same
sand goblet
You're all missing the point
tired osprey
and i learned my 21st command
sand goblet
Entirely
frosty berry
or maybe you are not listening
sand goblet
No, you're just talking over me
Have you used a browser recently?
Discord on the desktop?
Perhaps a tool like libreoffice?
frosty berry
yes, i do use these things
sand goblet
Do they all take your input in entirely different ways with entirely different shortcuts?
No, you know how to use them without being told
frosty berry
yes, i fight constantly because slack, discord, and others don't use the same shortcuts
sand goblet
What? Of course they do
frosty berry
i hate discord's nick completion, it's an UI disaster
sand goblet
You didn't have to be told how to navigate the text input or make use of it
That's what intuitive means
tired osprey
well have you recently used
a mail tool with vim bindings?
a file browser (actually build into vim) with vim bindings
an editor wiht vim...wait
a shell with vim bind...wait bash can do that
vim bindings are universal to their own set of tools as well
undone berry
People start out using a normal computer, they don't start out using vim
sand goblet
Yeah, that's true, but it's also missing the point
undone berry
and theres no reason why they should
frosty berry
please tell us the point clearly then
sand goblet
Okay, so you're using your web browser
tired osprey
whats a "normal" computer
sand goblet
Web browsers do not have vim keybindings by default
tired osprey
in the 70s a normal computer was using vim or emacs
undone berry
thankfully
sand goblet
You can add them with a third party plugin
undone berry
its not the 70s
sand goblet
So you do that
frosty berry
@undone berry people learn these tools, watch any normal users, and see that when they don't, nothing is intuitive, at all, you have to teach them
sand goblet
Then you install discord for desktop
Well there's no vim plugin for that but I'm sure you'd add one if you could
You want a mail client? You do the same thing, or get locked to one that uses vim bindings
You are intentionally limiting yourself in that way
Now that's hyperbole obviously
You can know both sets of bindings
But you see what I mean
frosty berry
no, i'm allowing myself to have tools that i can configure to my practice, i'm expending myself
undone berry
People have already learned the basics by the time they could use vim - they learn basic shortcuts when learning how to use a keyboard
tired osprey
you are also intentionally limiting yourself by refusing to learn vim?! @sand goblet
undone berry
what does vim offer that pycharm can't do?
sand goblet
Yes, but I'm limiting myself to a much larger slice of the pie
I still have everything
I just don't have.. Vim
frosty berry
i see other people use their computer, and i can tell you, they don't have the amount of control i have on my tools, even graphical ones
sand goblet
Haha
frosty berry
even most programmers i know
undone berry
They do have the amount of control
but they don't choose to use it
because they aren't invested enough to learn shortcuts
its not that shortcuts aren't intuitive, its that they don't feel the need
sand goblet
They might not bleed the raw efficiency you do out of your pores but again that isn't relevant
frosty berry
well, they would if they needed, i do teach them shortcuts for their tools that i don't use, and they are happy to learn them
undone berry
your problem here is now with people
and I don't even disagree
people would be better if they learned the tools they use
theres just no reason that tool should be vim
frosty berry
but the amount of things they can take advantage on their tools is much lower than the amount i can on my tools
undone berry
I'm not convinced at all
sand goblet
That's really is entirely irrelevant
We're talking about ease of use here
I can wake up tomorrow and install literally any graphical editor and begin using it with no experience whatsoever
And this isn't even a GUI vs vim thing
grim pelican
hi guys, just jumping in to say that emacs is a paragon of editing perfection
sand goblet
I just want to know why there are no decent cui tools that do the same thing haha
frosty berry
i currently have about 20 virtual desktops open, all with a name, some with browsers in them, some with terminals and editors, some with mail clients, chats, i have probably a good hundred window open
undone berry
I'm not, I'm saying you can get to 98% of the efficiency of a vim/emacs user just with an IDE+shortcuts
sand goblet
I'd say you probably can get pretty close, yeah, for most users anyway
grim pelican
@sand goblet you can use emacs out of the box like a normal graphical editor
frosty berry
i can switch to any of these screen in few keystroke, and i do, all the time, and i can switch to any of these window, by filtering in its name or the name of the desktop it's in, in the same amount of keystrokes
sand goblet
@grim pelican I tried
frosty berry
that's i3 for you
tired osprey
thats not the same as i3
sand goblet
Yeah, even windows has named workspaces now
tired osprey
thats not at all the same
grim pelican
@sand goblet why? if you were willing to try out emacs, why not just learn it fully?
sand goblet
Becuase I don't want to live in emacs necessarily @grim pelican
frosty berry
try alt tab with a hundred windows, look for something precise you didn't use in 4 days
undone berry
with multiple windows
tired osprey
what @frosty berry said
grim pelican
live in it?
sand goblet
I mean I needed an editor for low spec machine at work
frosty berry
people have no idea what they are missing on
grim pelican
you don't have to use it for everything, it's not a virus that forces you to use emacs as a replacement for every program lol
sand goblet
My current best solution is literally setting up a remote desktop and running PyCharm on a server in paris
Oh, I know, but I don't think I'm capable of remembering all the keybinds and such if I don't constantly use them
frosty berry
😆
grim pelican
@sand goblet i think you're more capable than you think
frosty berry
there are not that many to learn, you just need to have good ones
grim pelican
i know hundreds of keyboard shortcuts across many many programs, and i don't even think about it. It's all muscle memory, you get used to it
sand goblet
I can't even learn from books my dude
grim pelican
i know both emacs and vim keybindings
sand goblet
I have to be using it
frosty berry
instead of alt-tab, i type win+t and then a few keys to filter, and that brings me to the desk i want
grim pelican
i know all the discord keybindings, the browser keybindings, etc
grim pelican
i even know mac and windows keybindings when i have to use those
@sand goblet no they aren't
frosty berry
i can do the same with win+' to switch to a particular window
grim pelican
@sand goblet what do you mean? can you give an example of what's the same?
i'm not arguing, i'm curious
sand goblet
Undo
sand goblet
Ctrl+Z just like every other GUI app
tired osprey
unlike ctrl + z
frosty berry
ok, right, we know all of these too, but they are not intuitive, they are learned
sand goblet
Emacs can actually do that
grim pelican
i mean sure, a few of those are shared across all kinds of things, but that hardly accounts for enough to consider it significant
sand goblet
Which I thought was amusing
grim pelican
ahem emacs can do anything
frosty berry
when in the shell, it sends a signal to the current process
i think vim just intercepts it and suspends itself
sand goblet
I guess you can just make emacs ignore it then
grim pelican
@frosty berry you use vim for software dev?
undone berry
ctrl+z is intuitive because the vast majority of people already know it. Breaking peoples expectations is what makes things unintuitive
grim pelican
@frosty berry why not emacs?
undone berry
and thats what vim does everywhere
frosty berry
i don't want to get rsi 🙂
grim pelican
idk what that is lol
sand goblet
I can always try emacs again but I don't see it being all that much different
I do have a new project to start tomorrow though
frosty berry
but i started with vim and i'm still happy with it, i've heard of people switching after 10 years, from either side, i've though about it, but mostly i'm happy with what i have, it's good
grim pelican
@sand goblet it's fun if you like configuring things exactly as you like it
verbal pine
rsi sounds like an std 
grim pelican
@frosty berry if it's the keybindings holding you back, use evil, it's that simple
you get vim basically but more powerful
frosty berry
RSI, is when your hands hurts and you have to stop being productive because you hit all the same weird moves all the time and your nerves can't take it anymore
sand goblet
RSI, repetitive strain injury
frosty berry
i relearned to type from scratch to lower the risks of it happening
tired osprey
i looked at the tutorial and noticed that it doesnt really make sense in evil mode, everything has been rebound and changed
so
i decieded not to emacs
frosty berry
but vim is betten than emacs for that because you don't twist your hands as much to hit multiple keys
but yeah i know about evil, and i guess it would be fine
but again, i'm happy enough with vim and the plugins i have, not complaining
grim pelican
i'm pretty certain evil is basically identical in keybindings, if anything isn't quite right, it's easy to fix
sand goblet
When I worked at fexco the project lead swore by vim
Everyone else on the floor just used idea though
Guess he didn't have much luck converting haha
frosty berry
didn't even really switch to neovim, had a quick test and it seems good, but it's switching that is a pain, have to rebuild your conf
i do have a complicated conf, built over the last 15 years i think
grim pelican
i bet you'd be pretty happy with spacemacs
lets you configure to vim keybinds on startup
frosty berry
i don't try to convert anybody, if people are curious, i'm willing to explain, but i'm not going out of my way to say to people what tools they should use
it's not just keybindings, it's plugins also
i have a sizeable chunk
grim pelican
i'm with you, i don't try to convert anyone either (except vim users :))
sand goblet
Does emacs have something like gvim as well?
grim pelican
idk what gvim is, should i look it up quickly?
sand goblet
It's just a GUI wrapper for vim
tired osprey
gdude, not knowing emacs is asking for emacs
frosty berry
gvim is just vim done with gtk
grim pelican
emacs is gui by default
tired osprey
exactly
sand goblet
Oh, it is? Okay
grim pelican
yea, you just have the capability of using it in terminal mode
frosty berry
gvim has some advantages to vim, it can display more colors without messing with your terminal config, and it can map some keys combos that vim can't really because of how terminals work
but i'm not a fan, i like doing everything with terminals, it's just practical
grim pelican
when i want to use the terminal for editing, i use vim as well
i have nothing against vim, i love it as well
frosty berry
well, you do try to convert people 😛
sand goblet
I'm comfortable in a terminal but I never enter it if I don't need to
frosty berry
the terminal just gives access to a good number of tools that work well together
grim pelican
the terminal is the most important piece of software i use
sand goblet
I just don't need it on the regular
grim pelican
i use it basically for everything except browsing the internet
frosty berry
making guis work together involve a lot of manual work, copy and pasting is like the only interface, and you have to do it yourself
piping a complex grep/sed/cut command to vim, and doing the remainder of the work here is very powerful
grim pelican
a browser and a terminal (or twenty) are the only things i ever have open
sand goblet
If I'm using PyCharm I can do absolutely everything within it
frosty berry
basically, if a feature is not in you gui, and there is no plugin system to build it, you are done, it's going to be manual work
grim pelican
@sand goblet that's fair, that's the beauty of computers, we should all work the way we want to
sand goblet
The only thing I can't do is test stuff in different browsers, but I mean.. You expect that haha
Yeah, I know
grim pelican
i'm flabbergasted anytime i see someone admonishing someone else for their workflow
sand goblet
Happens to me all the time
grim pelican
i'm a fancy man
sand goblet
There's a certain.. Superiority complex I see in a lot of people that live in the terminal
grim pelican
@sand goblet me too, i expect we've all experienced it at some point
sand goblet
But I just have no hope of understanding it I think
grim pelican
i get a lot of groans at my office when one of my co-workers sees me in emacs
frosty berry
well, don't take it bad gdude, but i see you as an offeder in this category, it's not the first time i see you basically diss command line tools and vim/emacs
sand goblet
It's basically impossible for me to explain my thoughts without coming across that way in some capacity as far as I can tell
grim pelican
i think without being very careful, it can be difficult to not come across in a bad light when discussing these things
frosty berry
ok, well, if i may, maybe be less assertive, and try to come accross as more curious, and if you disagree, state why you think differently, rather than trying to explain why you are right
and it's ok to disagree, in the end, as long as we learn from each others
imho
at least on these subjects, it's not like disagreeing about which tools to use, prevents us from working
sand goblet
I appreciate the advice but I doubt it'd change much
And honestly I think most of the problem is my typing style and how much slower it is to type and correct on mobile, haha
grim pelican
i'm terrible at typing on my phone, i can't stand it
undone berry
I wish physical keyboards on mobiles would make a comeback
frosty berry
oh right, i type much less when i'm on mobile, and i can indeed come off as more blunt in this situation
sand goblet
But I did completely change my typing personality for people on this server over the past year and the people that caused that change via complaint haven't given a single shit
frosty berry
i'm not sure that would be enough, i wouldn't type fast or accurately enough on such a small keyboard
sand goblet
Probably didn't notice tbh
undone berry
I'd still be rubbish, but I wouldn't hate it or typo as much I think
frosty berry
(and i did use small laptops before, it was fine on the eeepc, but smaller would be a problem i'm sure)
grim pelican
i would have just as many typos, they would just be different kinds of typos to the ones i get from gesture typing
sand goblet
I find about half of my typos are bust SwiftKey bring wrong
undone berry
Thats my problem as well - swype just gets the wrong word pretty often
sand goblet
Sometimes I typed what I wanted correctly and it still changes it
grim pelican
some words i can't gesture type at all, like the word "write"
frosty berry
i don't use predictive or gesture typing at all on phones, can't say i do less mistakes, but the mistakes are mine
sand goblet
You can see above that SwiftKey did change two words there so that's a good example I guess haha
frosty berry
and they are much less frustrating than the ones from predictive/autocorrect
sand goblet
It's not great, yeah
I try to avoid it when I can
I found a bug in the android app recently as well but I couldn't report it becuase they had closed the bug reports for christmas
grim pelican
yea i sometimes fall back to putting an asterisk on the corrected word and sending that
i wonder if the sed style editing works on mobile
i've only tested it in the browser
sand goblet
If you're on a server with a bot and the bot is updating the channel topic, then every time it does, the cursor in your text input gets placed at the end (on android)
I was on a server where the channel topic was updated every second
Total nightmare to edit
grim pelican
oh christ
sand goblet
(Chat relay channel for the current Minecraft server I'm running, it had the uptime there)
grim pelican
ah, figured it was something like that
frosty berry
oh that's easy, just type the sentence in reverse 🧠
sand goblet
Haha
grim pelican
lol
sand goblet
Is your cursor on the left by default then? :>
grim pelican
¿sᴉɥʇ ǝʞᴉl
frosty berry
oh i actually misread, my joke is broke 😦
sand goblet
Haha
I think if you type English in an RTL text input the cursor is still on the right actually
Just.. All the way to the right
grave phoenix
That's not only backwards, that's also upside down
grim pelican
instructions were unclear
sand goblet
Keyboard caught in ceiling fan
grim pelican
!otn a keyboard caught in ceiling fan
royal lakeBOT
:ok_hand: Added keyboard-caught-in-ceiling-fan to the names list.
sand goblet
\o/
rough sapphire
first of all ~
Yeah I hate when that happens
this ot name is very perplexing.. do you have a low ceiling.. is the keyboard possessed.. nobody knows
welcome back Scott.. what year is it
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire It's 2077, October 22nd
Tomorrow's gonna be great
dang.. I slept too much..
grave phoenix
Man I love apple eating snake logo
rough sapphire
@rough sapphire ( That was a Fallout reference )
I haven't played that game yet..
I want to.. waiting for it to come out in HD
3/New Vegas/4 are all solid with DLC
(that was a piratebay reference; not that I encourage people to pirate games)
You can skip 76 completely
@rough sapphire Yeah, let's not
just feels weird shelling out so much for a game.. so waiting for it to come out for cheaper
most I've paid for a game.. was as much as the latest Hitman was priced at..
I searched Hitman $ on google.. I got results for real hitmen.. lol
grave phoenix
Sometimes steam has nice sales
rough sapphire
let's see.. Hitman was 60$ when I bought it.. is there a Fallout bundle I can start off with
New Vegas should be like $20 with the DLC
It's for PS3 though
aww I only have my PC right now..
I mean, it's for computer too
But I've only ever played them on console
ahhh got it
let me check it out..
I was more saying that it was for PS3 rather than 4
which game purchase do you regret the most
like overall..
No Man Sky
didn't that get progressively better
Doesn't matter, they still lied.
Like, blatantly lied
really.. what did they say
did you like.. prepurchase or something
What we were promised ^
what kind of dog is that
:3
grave phoenix
That's a giraffe
rough sapphire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiRzw7mlEzE Gets progressively louder at 0:11
The excuse of "Well, it got better! They actually added multiplayer to it!"
Is just that, it's an excuse. They lied at the beginning, hoping it was going to get better later on. That's not how it works.
Hello Games blatantly lied, and it was the worse media purchase I've ever done, period.
lmao
that weird creature in 2016 XD
Yep. I played for 2 weeks hoping it was going to get better. It didn't.
Or maybe it was a week?
Idk, I played for what felt like forever.
wonder how it's like now
Well, they actually implemented real multiplayer. I'd recommend looking up the history / controversy over it's initial release. They were real shady.
sounds like a fun documentary
for me.. the most disappointing purchase was Doom 3.. gave me headaches if I played for longer than 30 minutes :< I still have it.. and haven't been able to complete it
I think the biggest general disappointment that I've seen is VR
There's nothing there that warrants me going and spending an arm and a leg on VR equipment. The only good things for VR are training-related. Where that's for the military, medical, or otherwise, that's all it looks good for.