the 2 new 8-9 week old ones are getting on great with the 1 year old
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
tulip palm
oh you got new ones? :D
tulip palm
why didn't you tell me :(((((
rough sapphire
billy blue balls
rough sapphire
you dont know what blue balls are?
tulip palm
i'm glad robin has rat friends again @gentle moss
vestal briar
No and I don't want to
gentle moss
rough sapphire
man you really are behind in everything huh
gentle moss
billi is the black one
vestal briar
Is that a bad thing?
Also when you are trying to get lorem inspum and you mispell it
And you see the wikipedia picture
In school
tulip palm
bisk can you keep me updated on your rat shenanigans because they're adorable and i love them
tulip palm
i mean, if you don't mind :D
vestal briar
Bisk is secretly smiling with glee when you asked that
tulip palm
hmm
gentle moss
tulip palm
haha :D
tulip palm
oh that's fine then ^~^
vestal briar
We had rats
rough sapphire
quasi sequoia
are they clever?
vestal briar
We got ours to rob a bank :)
gentle moss
almost learned how to get out her cage before an attempt went bad and it's scared her off it
we watched her do it
tulip palm
oh that's cute :D
vestal briar
Hah
gentle moss
we didn't lock the top latches because we thought it was too heavy unless they REALLY tried
and they never have
but she did and got stuck
squished by the cage lid
tulip palm
aw
gentle moss
i bet if she put her mind to it she could
tulip palm
yeah for sure.
gentle moss
the spin thing is cute though
sometimes we leave her out when eating dinner, we got these 3 split tables
so 1 each for eating food, middle one for drinks or w/e
she'll crawl on your knee and do spin tricks
in the hopes of food
quasi sequoia
haha
tulip palm
oh :D you should give her a little bit when she does
quasi sequoia
so many treats
tulip palm
just make sure there's no reaper sauce on it
gentle moss
that's the problem
tulip palm
ah i see fair enough
gentle moss
a lot of food she can't have
we save on pet food by using a little bit of our left overs
potato, peas, carrots, whatever
or that shit bit of scrambled egg that get stuck to the bowl when you make it in the microwave
tulip palm
haha well, at least they get some variety every so often
gentle moss
does mean they flock to the top of the cage and face the kitchen when it's cooking
tulip palm
of course :D
gentle moss
we sorta wanna build little puzzles where they get treats
like pulling a rope to raise a flag but also drop a treat
vestal briar
@gentle moss Do you remember when I had that WiFi bug a month or two ago?
Well guess what
gentle moss
congrats
vestal briar
Woo
Just from installing aircrack-ng
ruby-net-http-persistant?
Ah, works now after a restart ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
rough sapphire
its taking everything i have to not impulse buy a new game
vestal briar
What new game
rough sapphire
there was a few that i was looking at with g the other day
satisfactory looks kinda dope
but im kind of just browsing, i havent bought a new game in what feels like forever
rough sapphire
i want to buy a game cus im bored of all the ones i have
which isnt many compared to most people tbf
rough sapphire
the only game i own that i havent played is fornite and i kinda dont wanna play that
ive played it like twice on ps4 tho
quasi sequoia
congrats Soup!
jagged fog
F f
rough sapphire
G g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAJ_A3nNy44 i dont know why this is so funny
also 1:10 is me trying ANYTHING on
vestal briar
๐
rough sapphire
?
vestal briar
ROGER
rough sapphire
what
rough sapphire
no ones asking you to respond
vestal briar
[Owez doesn't respond to that]
rough sapphire
because im not talking directly to you
rough sapphire
im not mad if anyone responds with something relevant, but you jsut always fucking respond with some stupid ass emoji, as if im talking to you
rough sapphire
IF THEY WANT TO RESPOND GO AHEAD
IF THEY WANT TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE VIDEO GO AHEAD
vestal briar
No need to get mad and/or turn on caps for emphisis
I'll try to stay radio silent in the future
I guess
tame pier
!warn 264176309142421514 "Take that shit elsewhere"
royal lakeBOT
:ok_hand: warned @tepid coyote ("Take that shit elsewhere").
dry robin
i'm soup
tame pier
Oooook then
vestal briar
And that's Riot gone :/
vapid bluff
wtf
hollow leaf
rough sapphire
!warm 156303372784369664 90ยฐC
rough sapphire
hai
oak tangle
Hi!
It's not entirely social media, since the main benefit it has is that you're able to collaborate, publish, and publicly have some version control on a code base
rough sapphire
i am a computer's student as of now and i have heard so much about github but never really got to know it
oak tangle
Do you know git?
rough sapphire
oh okay so its like a place where your "team" can review and work on it?
fervent vale
Yeah, but with open source projects, anybody can propose code changes
rough sapphire
um i really dont
fervent vale
So git is a computer program which keeps track of changes to code and allows you to keep different copies of your code separate. There's a good video here about GitHub: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3jLJU7DT5E
rough sapphire
oh okay, thanks for the help
my friends and i have attempted to create a discord server which uses webhooks and apis to get us all the information we might ever need
oak tangle
Do note that GitHub and git are not the same thing. git is really the tool and github provides a platform for having shared repositories and a whole lot of things to coordinate a project
There are other services providing that as well, suck as bitbucket
rough sapphire
yeah i saw the student package page
fervent vale
The idea with git is that each time you make a change to your code, you save it ("commit it") together with a human-readable summary. Then you can use git to jump back in time, or review the summaries. Sometimes, different people want to work on the code and don't want to mess with the main copy which will actually be run. They create 'branches', which are basically just copies of the code. They can then commit their own changes to the branch. git can handle merging together different branches when people finish writing their code.
And then GitHub has the following features:
- hosts there git code repositories (together with all of the branches)
- "issues" - which are places to discuss bugs or features
- "pull requests" - which are places to discuss the proposed merging of two branches
and then it has social media-like features, like "Stars" - where you can "star" (like) a code repository
rough sapphire
ahh i get it now, so basically someone could give you an idea, write it for you, and then if you think it would help your code you can apply it?
fervent vale
yeah, exactly
so if they've already written the code idea for you, they would open a pull request, where you can discuss the changes and also look at them
and then decide whether you want to accept the pull request or close it
wooden silo
@rough sapphire Adding to and clarifying what others have said above: Git is a type of "version control system"(VCS). There are other VCSs, like Subversion, Perforce, Mercurial, but Git is the most widely used. VCSs have a concept called a "repository", which are essentially projects that contain code. Github is a platform for hosting Git repositories. There are other platforms like it (Gitlab, Bitbucket), but Github is the largest (afaik). If you want to become a professional developer, learning how to use VCSs is essential.
undone berry
I think I've seen someone link it before, but is there an equivalent or similar server to this but for React/JS?
sand goblet
Reactiflux
undone berry
Thanks
wooden silo
@undone berry SpeakJS
rough sapphire
got it @wooden silo thanks a lot for the addition of info ๐
robust sierra
very cool
sand goblet
Finally set up a base somewhere?
sand goblet
Aha
robust sierra
who made little denmark?
sand goblet
Joseph
robust sierra
i placed a sign on a tree that reads sweden
sand goblet
hah
I forgot how wordy the JVM was
val formatDiscordWebhookServerSenderAvatar: String? = this.config.getString("formatting.discord.webhook.server_sender_avatar")
(that's kotlin)
wooden silo
Do you have to name the variable with the full path of the config property?
Can't you just call it serverAvatar or something?
robust sierra
@sand goblet i was mining and i found some sort of slime monster
is this a plugin or something?
sand goblet
I believe those are called slimes, yes
robust sierra
no its not a slime
robust sierra
one sec
sand goblet
would you not hit F2 and take the screenshot before the ping..?
robust sierra
thats what im ghnna do now
sand goblet
OK
robust sierra
sand goblet
It's a plugin
robust sierra
i thought it was trying to protect these diamonds lol
sand goblet
Nah they just try to jumpscare you
sand goblet
:>
robust sierra
i have forgotten where little denmark is
sand goblet
You'll have to scour the map for it
robust sierra
if i find it im going to make my base nearby
solid pollen
You're playing mc you two? :)
sand goblet
@solid pollen Well we have an MC server here, haha
Would be nice to get more people tbh
undone berry
How many people are on it and how old is it?
ivory shard
Id totally play minecraft with you guys but I dont have an acc :(
sand goblet
@undone berry There's ~20 players but I don't have stats for regulars, it's been around a couple weeks
@ivory shard I've been trying to get gift codes to give out for jackbox but mojang is not making it easy
Docs here if interested, Piers https://www.evernote.com/l/AlG5E9crIxtPQ7L-j1F4Mkm5HU9N5KC6byg/
sand goblet
I mean it's up to them to make gift codes available
their official outlet is amazon
and the codes have a regional availability, and are never available in Ireland, so I can't get them
undone berry
I think everyone dislikes gift codes because they get used for credit card fraud
sand goblet
that's why mojang doesn't sell them directly anymore, yeah
undone berry
Have you looked in physical shops anywhere?
sand goblet
Smyths has them but they don't deliver, there isn't one in my town, and I can't drive
vestal briar
I'm making a secondary small town
solid pollen
@sand goblet what's the ip?
undone berry
what even is survival games?
sand goblet
You know the hunger games?
undone berry
I assume just that?
sand goblet
12/24 people are dumped into a medium/large arena and have to scavenge for supplies
undone berry
I hadn't seen it called that before
leaden apex
Has anyone tried the impossible burger
leaden apex
Lmao nah @quasi sequoia it's a substitute meat burger but it's the closest to beef I've tasted
sand goblet
no meat, yes
undone berry
I haven't had it, but when someone I was with had it they said it was good but nothing like beef
sand goblet
but you couldn't tell if you had it
Nah, impossible burger is a specific brand
Impossible
undone berry
Yeah, it was Impossible Burger I'm pretty sure
sand goblet
it's Impossible's burgers
undone berry
let me check I remember the place has an online menu
leaden apex
It's pretty hard to distinguish honestly
undone berry
Ah - no - it was Beyond Meat that one
honestly I thought the two were the same company
leaden apex
The only difference was it tasted less fatty and breaks apart a bit easier
Is beyond meat lab grown?
leaden apex
Idk I just know impossible is based on soy protein
sand goblet
"beyond meat" is another trickster
leaden apex
It has iron I think
sand goblet
there are lots of companies that make a "beyond" burger
leaden apex
To emulate the blood taste
undone berry
Impossible is plant based
Yeah both are plant based - I'd love to try lab grown meat
leaden apex
Oh wow they added micronutrients to the impossible one too
Just makes me happy we're taking steps to make it easier if people want to quit meat
undone berry
I feel like as soon as fast food places have good vegetarian options it will accelerate a lot
I know a few people who literally only eat meat at like Mcdonalds and mediocre restaurants
leaden apex
Lmao yeah, dude they have impossible at bk, Apollo burgers, and red Robin already
It's good incentive for the competitors too
quasi sequoia
I'd love to try lab grown meat Not me
undone berry
Yeah. Beef and pork clearly cannot carry on in their current direction indefinitely
Without even considering the ethical impact
frosty berry
well, the ecological impact is part of the ethical impact, imho, but i see what you mean
without considering other animals rights
undone berry
Yeah, that's a better way of phrasing it
frosty berry
of course, if one is vegan, i would't blame them for not wanting to try lab meat, that's fully understandable
but if you love meat, i would encourage you to consider alternatives
sand goblet
Lab meat is very interesting
frosty berry
it's easy to blame big corporations or what not for polluting, but eating less meat is one of the easiest way to lower your CO2 footprint
frosty berry
that's not as balanced as you might think
eating meat is worse than taking the plane i'm pretty sure
quasi sequoia
eating a lettuce too
undone berry
Maybe. But it feels to me like society places to much emphasis on very minor things like coffee cups and far too little on industry
quasi sequoia
Amazonia is burning right now because people want to plant lettuces there
undone berry
No, the amazon is burning for cattle ranching
sand goblet
The coffee cup thing is funny
Because over here they have coffee cups that are very eco friendly
frosty berry
eating lettuce is insanely better than eating meat for the planet
sand goblet
And then they put a plastic lid on it
undone berry
Cattle and palm oil are the leading causes of deforestation iirc
sand goblet
Yup
frosty berry
people don't plant lettuce in the soil of the burned amazonia i'm pretty sure, not sure where you got that info, but even if it was true, you can feed a lot more people with lettuce produced on a square meter (or foot) than the same amount used for cattle, so it would still be better to eat lettuce
if you want to eat meat, switch from beef to chicken or pork, it's at least somewhat better
(not to sheep, apparently it's worse than beef)
undone berry
I thought pork was about equivalent to beef in terms of impact?
quasi sequoia
I was being over simplistic, just as people in this chat was being. Agriculture also has an ecological impact , and you are understimating it
quasi sequoia
also, how do you get vegetables out of season? bringing them by plane to the rest of the world
undone berry
How do you get cheap meat? Flying it in from the rest of the world
frosty berry
all the sources i find indicate around half the CO2 of beef for pork
undone berry
Greenhouses are feasible for year round produce
quasi sequoia
from your own country
vapid bluff
hydroponics
quasi sequoia
more expensive than bringing them from 3rd world countries
undone berry
What is your argument here?
quasi sequoia
everything has an ecological impact
quasi sequoia
no matter if you are vegan or not
undone berry
Pretty much universally agreed
quasi sequoia
even if it is not as explicit, it is there
quasi sequoia
like all the animals that die when fields are prepared for seeding/harvesting
frosty berry
everything has an impact, but comparing impacts is still useful
you still need to seed plants and harvest them to feed animals
undone berry
More of it
quasi sequoia
animals are fed with the parts of the plants that human dont consume
frosty berry
that's patently false
rough sapphire
just get it over with and plug me into the matrix already
quasi sequoia
I don't eat hay...
rough sapphire
speak for yourself
undone berry
Of course you don't. We grow it for animals
frosty berry
tons of corn and soy and other plants that humans can consume are planted and harvested for animals consumption
sand goblet
While we're on the subject, insects as meat replacements?
rough sapphire
sure, I'm down
frosty berry
and even if we didn't, we could use the same land to harvest plants that human can eat
quasi sequoia
they tried to sell them in a big supermarket here, over expensive shit
undone berry
OK but I don't want to see the thing as an insect whilst I eat it
frosty berry
insects, well, i'm for it in theory, but i'm not sure i would do it if i was in front of it, if their shape is preserved
rough sapphire
just make it into a cube, Snowpiercer style
undone berry
Can't emotionally get over the insects are icky thing to that degree
sand goblet
Yeah I mean that's the thing
Most of the edible insects you can buy look like insects
frosty berry
but yeah, make powder from them and shape it into something else, and that's fine
quasi sequoia
E120 colouring is made out of mashed insects
vestal briar
Lovely
rough sapphire
we need protein, and if we need it we need animals and meat
undone berry
Although I don't see the point. Plant protein isn't that difficult to get
undone berry
Ah sure
vestal briar
I searched it whilst trying to eat
frosty berry
@rough sapphire there are a lot of protein sources that are not meat, though it's the easiest protein to get
undone berry
Haven't spent much time reading about that specifically
quasi sequoia
the bad thing is not meat, or vegetables, the bad thing is over exploitation
undone berry
No
frosty berry
meat is good because it has about everything you need, but that doesn't mean we can't do without it
quasi sequoia
then you need suplements
rough sapphire
What is the point in stop the comsuption of meat?
undone berry
Saying over exploitation is just a way off obfuscating the part that is actionable
No
frosty berry
there are multiple points, but the most pressing one is reducing C02 and other greenhouse gases production
frosty berry
that's a sensitive subjects, some people did it wrong and killed their children
very young they obviously need milk
undone berry
Yeah. But it is possible to do healthily
frosty berry
even if you intend to go full vegan after that, they should get the milk
vestal briar
I mean can vegans drink breast milk?
frosty berry
some are against
vestal briar
If it's not allergic
quasi sequoia
don't force other people to follow your beliefs. That includes your children
frosty berry
everybody makes their children follow their beliefs, it's not just vegans
undone berry
^^^
quasi sequoia
they shouldnt
undone berry
Obviously so
vestal briar
Seeing that the whole reason with veganism is for allergies or animal suffering
undone berry
'don't pick your nose'
vestal briar
Don't take life-saving drugs
undone berry
That's not the argument though
frosty berry
making your children eat BBQ is as much "making your children follow your beliefs" than not making them because you are vegan
anyway, i'm not asking everybody to become vegan, i'm not even one
undone berry
Same. But it is obviously better
frosty berry
i'm saying, even if you love meat, please consider eating less of it, and consider alternatives
quasi sequoia
it is not like I am rich to eat meat daily lol
vestal briar
I think most people know meat is produced in bad conditions
frosty berry
if everybody could limit themselves to like, two meat meals a week, it would be such a progress already
sand goblet
The problem is I can't think of enough non-meat meals
quasi sequoia
I wish I could eat meat twice a week :C
frosty berry
well, a lot of people eat meat daily, in one form or another
sand goblet
I don't like most meat replacements
vestal briar
I could quite easily go vegitarian if I wanted to
vestal briar
But I like bacon and kfc as treats
sand goblet
We eat more chicken than anything
quasi sequoia
you are still growing Owez, dont do that
vestal briar
๐ค
frosty berry
there are a lot of very healthy people who don't eat meat, even when doing a lot of sport, or while they are growing
sand goblet
At the same time??
vestal briar
I basically have the odd bit of chicken and ham
I read that message and I wrote saussage by accident..
quasi sequoia
it is a way to use animal wastes that, in other way, would be thrown away
sand goblet
This morning was toast with butter and honey, lunch involved bread, cheese and crisps
Tonight we're having scampi and chips
Does that count?
rough sapphire
and about omega3 ?
vestal briar
Not a great day for me, I had a shitty-tasting mcdonalds as a treat
frosty berry
when you go vegan, you definitly have to be more careful about getting everything you need
quasi sequoia
fish have both?
rough sapphire
YRS, I'M IDIOT
undone berry
You need to take supplements
frosty berry
vegan obviously don't eat fish
undone berry
There is over kind of nutrient you can't get without meat
rough sapphire
but animals die for supplements
vestal briar
Sometimes I am eating something and i'm just thinking about how many cells i'm crushing the flavour out of for happiness
frosty berry
no not "can't get", but "have a harder time getting" yes
quasi sequoia
alt f4, you have falafel
frosty berry
even if you have to use animals to get supplements, it'll usually require much less of them than eating the animal directly
undone berry
Or somewhere
quasi sequoia
they are yummy alt f4
frosty berry
and i'm not saying we shouldn't ever kill an animal at all, i'm saying, we should raise and kill less of them
vestal briar
You can get everything from plants but it can be harder to get some nutritions
rough sapphire
How can you prove that tshirt?
frosty berry
prove what?
rough sapphire
kill less of them
frosty berry
that we should kill less of them?
quasi sequoia
so not over exploitating...
rough sapphire
even if you have to use animals to get supplements, it'll usually require much less of them than eating the animal directly
that
vestal briar
Anyhow our planet is fucked and having a large focus on livestock is proving to be very bad
frosty berry
well, it's easy, growing them is causing harm to our own environment, and growing so many of them will make our enviornment impossible to live into in the next few decades
so eating less of them to grow less of them is kind of necessary
vestal briar
Yep
rough sapphire
I can just argue that can need to kill the same amount of animals to get the same amout of supplements needed for humans
vestal briar
?
frosty berry
i'm specifically not saying everyone should be vegan
i'm saying everyone should eat less meat
vestal briar
^
quasi sequoia
yea sure, it is what is damaging our planet the more, not like having 230k plane flights every day
that doesnt hurt at all
shell raptor
I think what whatever is asking is how you know that supplements require less animal killing than meat consumption.
rough sapphire
But there are a lot of countries where meet is needed
frosty berry
you can compare how many km of plane a steak is worth
rough sapphire
poor countries
vestal briar
I have got used to the possibility that our planet will be fucked in 50 years and we will mostly die out
rough sapphire
and people just eat meat
frosty berry
these countries are not the problem right now, they don't have a huge ecological footprint
and they don't eat anywhere as much meat as americans or europeans
vestal briar
Livestock and factories are the largest concern
quasi sequoia
saying that the planet is dying because people is eating meat is over simplistic and harmful
vestal briar
Not really
frosty berry
the chinise population getting easier access to meat is a huge problem for example, because their standard of livelyhood is raising very fast, and they are so many
rough sapphire
yes, less consuption is good and resonable
vestal briar
By eating meat we need animals
vestal briar
And them animals take a ton of recourses to grow
Like we need to feed them 10x the food in plants
frosty berry
well, the discussion started with lab grown meat
so we know we don't need animals to eat meat
vestal briar
Yeah
frosty berry
and i'm saying it's fine to eat that, at least it's much better than eating animal meat
quasi sequoia
so we know we don't need animals to eat meat false
vestal briar
It's true
rough sapphire
Hey owez, and about meat being more caloric than plants per kg?
frosty berry
it's getting near of the prices of animal meat
quasi sequoia
that is not my question
vestal briar
@rough sapphire If you buy a newborn cow and feed it until it becomes 7 years old or however long it takes
To get 5 meals out of it
rough sapphire
And?
vestal briar
Or you can eat the 7 years worth of meals that you give it
And have a ton more meals
sand goblet
Speak for yourself
rough sapphire
That doesn't mean that the meat don't afford the plants
vestal briar
What?
quasi sequoia
5 meals from a cow?
vestal briar
Simplifications
frosty berry
the beef you eat didn't live 7 years
vestal briar
How long does it usually live?
frosty berry
i'm checking that, but it could be a year
rough sapphire
but i think is near that
vestal briar
Any longer then a day and it's worth just eating the food you gave it :P
rough sapphire
The point are the gases owez, not if is worth growing the animals
vestal briar
The animals produce methane
rough sapphire
yes
vestal briar
So
Less animals
You have a much more efficiant supply of food, rather then going through animals indirectly
quasi sequoia
the animals don't produce methane, the animals release the methane from the plants
vestal briar
And less greenhouse gasses
quasi sequoia
just like you
vestal briar
Mhm
rough sapphire
we should just create a system to use the methane
vestal briar
What
quasi sequoia
it already exists, right?
vestal briar
That's not how the world works
rough sapphire
yes
frosty berry
grass doesn't contain methane
rough sapphire
but uses the pop
vestal briar
Animals are basically very inefficiant buffers between you and the source food
rough sapphire
but uses the pop
rough sapphire
methane
vestal briar
What is a pop?
rough sapphire
huh
frosty berry
didn't find a lot of sources with prices numbers, but this https://articles.extension.org/pages/39485/what-is-the-age-range-for-butchering-steers-i-am-trying-for-prime says 12-22 months
rough sapphire
poop?
vestal briar
So you feed a cow 1-2 years of meals
frosty berry
the older the more premium
vestal briar
Or you can just eat them yourself
For 1-2 years
Instead of having like 1 weeks worth of food from the cow
rough sapphire
uhhh
vestal briar
@gloomy raft This isn't a discussion on how objectivly nice something tastes
rough sapphire
a cow produces more than that owez
frosty berry
the cow is about 600kgs after that time, so it's worth a few meals, even if you approximate to 500kg after removing the bones and other unusable parts
vestal briar
Meat will go off in > 1 week
quasi sequoia
I thought the younger the more premium :/
frosty berry
no
vestal briar
Unless you properly refrigirate it
quasi sequoia
bones are usable btw
rough sapphire
yes
vestal briar
Damn
frosty berry
well, i weight around 100kg, so i'm not surprised a cow is 5-6 times that
anyway, time to eat ๐
vestal briar
๐
quasi sequoia
I should too.
Mm methane in animals is produced by microorganisms decomposing the cellulose. But plants also absorb methane from the ground
carnivore?
shell raptor
Maybe a bit off topic, but. If a vegan/vegetarian/pescetarian gets attacked by a wild animal and kills it in self-defense, would they be okay with eating the meat of that animal? For example, if they are lost in a forest and have no other food source.
undone berry
i mean
go ask one
its obviously a case by case basis
and they aren't like unicorns
vestal briar
Vegans can be doing it for allergies or belifs
shell raptor
I understand that.
vestal briar
And if your life depends on it, it'd be stupid not to eat it if it where belifs
shell raptor
I meant an ethical vegan or vegetarian.
vestal briar
Yeah
shell raptor
(the beliefs category)
vestal briar
I'm betting that 90% would
And the other 10% are killing themselves based on their belifs that animals are killed unfairly
quasi sequoia
why vegans dont eat eggs?
vestal briar
Because they are eating would-be fetuses from an animal
quasi sequoia
or milk
vestal briar
Both are animal products
quasi sequoia
fetuses? they are not fecunded
vestal briar
Usually produced in bad enviroments
quasi sequoia
if you care about their life conditions, search one of those ecological farms
quasi sequoia
then the problem is money
vestal briar
Tried and failed
quasi sequoia
and India?
undone berry
Population growth in the most developed countries is negative
vestal briar
And inflation
undone berry
no reason to believe India, China, et al won't get there also
quasi sequoia
because people have no money to have children
then how 3rd world countries have so many children?
undone berry
children are cheap
quasi sequoia
because education is poor
vestal briar
More chance of them surviving
rough sapphire
if i'm not wrong, China already have an children limit per family
undone berry
when countries become more developed population growth slows
vestal briar
That's why some animals have a ton of babies
And some have 1 or 2
Chickens have a lot because chances are, most chicks will die
I just said why
rough sapphire
ignorance
undone berry
vestal briar
Thanks :)
frosty berry
china is slowly lifting the child limit, because it's very hard to sustain such policy economicaly, you need production force to produce for aging people, they need to sustain a very high rate of growth to compensate.
kurzgesagt is nice, aside being impossible to spell
undone berry
I think I have it down - I'm proud of myself
cosmic quiver
eggs aren't fetuses ๐ค
quasi sequoia
sperm are not fetuses
cosmic quiver
Only fertilized eggs can produce offspring
quasi sequoia
exactly
cosmic quiver
which most eggs that are eaten are definitely not
vestal briar
Yep
cosmic quiver
also lol imagine thinking overpopulation is or will ever be the problem instead of a manifestation of a deeper issue
vestal briar
But for vegans, its a principle of forcing chickens in bad coniditons to produce eggs
frosty berry
usually vegans don't eat milk or eggs or honey because they are produced by animal exploitation
these vegans won't wear things produced from animals either
it's very hard to completly avoid using anything that is produced from an animal, though
well, yeah, but i'm ok with avoiding petrol as much as possible as well, so checkmate
(but burning petrol doesn't cause or require animal exploitation, because using animals to produce petrol is just too slow to be a thing humans do)
instead, we consider it a finite resource
vestal briar
They don't
Want me to torture a plant?
Yeah
Like a computer is "alive"
It's just "programmed" to respond to inputs
Doesn't feel anything
frosty berry
even if you assume plants have feelings, eating them instead of eating animals is still a net benefit, because animals eat plants before you eat them
vestal briar
The electric for plants is nutrients from the soil and UV
frosty berry
so feeding from plants directly require the destruction of much fewer of them
vestal briar
Yep
And as they don't feel anything bad, it's fine to "kill" them
And you're just trolling now
๐ ..
frosty berry
you are just trolling because you don't like us telling you it's bad to eat meat, and you like meat
how much is too much?
but yeah, i agree
vestal briar
I mean
Anyone can agree to that
Drinking too much water is bad
Living too long is bad
frosty berry
too much is by definition, too much, and so, bad
frosty berry
some people think it's good for them to eat meat exclusively, at every meal
frosty berry
well, that would be lab grown meat?
vestal briar
But it doesn't derive from genetically engineering plants
frosty berry
you'll have to change people's mind over gmo though
but not mine, i'm all for any gmo that is useful
frosty berry
need* i guess
quasi sequoia
some people think it's good for them to eat meat exclusively, at every meal
What people? lol Don't they go to school?
frosty berry
real adults, but yeah, it does look stupid and dangerous, but everybody has their own think-alike community these days, where it's possible to think whatever you think is undisputed
rough sapphire
What does PyCharm even do?
vestal briar
@frosty berry Go filter bubbles! ๐
quasi sequoia
This is an interesting reading https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize
quasi sequoia
yes just an opinion
frosty berry
well, then it doesn't ๐
vestal briar
A shop supports being burgled
Just against the law
:P
Ooh
You have one of them weird translated browsers
I know someone in afghanistan that has one
No, the browser
cosmic quiver
I mean veganism isn't the option, consider somehow the entire planet went vegan overnight and all the animal production was plants instead, we'd still have the exact same issues except now they are with plants
vestal briar
Oh..
undone berry
Veganism is still orders of magnitude better than eating the average amount of meat in say the UK or the US
vestal briar
I thought it was one of the ones that look like spyware but are actually a wrapper to chormium with rich translation support
quasi sequoia
the problem are those countries then
vestal briar
With spyware probably included
cosmic quiver
And now you might say "haha plants take up less space" or whatever but is that actually the issue? it's not like people already use the maximum amount of area they can just to maximise profits. It's not like overproduction and oppressive production just for profit is somehow unique to meat production
frosty berry
@cosmic quiver no, that's wrong, we would need much less land (and water) to produce enough plants to feed everybody
undone berry
'we'd still have the exact same issues except now they are with plants' intensive farming has issues, but they are much more resolveable with less space than is intensive cattle farming that is burning the amazon
cosmic quiver
we can already pรฅroduce enough to feed everyone
frosty berry
yes, we can and we do, thankfully
vestal briar
@cosmic quiver but it's killing us
undone berry
The problem is a global one. In the US and the UK and probably the EU, we eat far more meat than is fairly sustainable
vestal briar
Woo!
undone berry
It baffles me that people are so attached to eating cow that they refuse to accept obvious facts
like - I eat far more than my share of beef, but I try to cut it down and accept that it is wrong
frosty berry
can't believe people are still using opera
undone berry
Whats wrong with it?
cosmic quiver
anyway my point was veganism in the current mode of production is kind of like if you had a leaky tap in your house and your solution was to buy a new house
guess what, pal, the tap is still leaking
undone berry
I considered switching, seems nicer than Chrome or Firefox
Thats a rubbish argument. Especially given that most vegans are also opposed on animal rights grounds
which is completely fair
frosty berry
@gloomy raft firefox
undone berry
What does Firefox do that Opera doesn't?
vestal briar
Firefox > Chrome > Opera
rough sapphire
Yahoo?
frosty berry
@cosmic quiver well, your point is wrong then, unless the house is impossible to fix, and the new one will be orders of magnitude more efficient at saving water
cosmic quiver
what does that matter if the new one is still leaking?
vestal briar
Firefox is fastest, built with privacy in mind, popular and has good styling support
cosmic quiver
er old one
rough sapphire
Hokayยจ
frosty berry
@cosmic quiver did you understand "orders of magnitude more efficient at saving water" ?
"it's still leaking" is not a good comparison
cosmic quiver
do you not see that doesn't matter
undone berry
Its dripping instead of a fire house in the living room
cosmic quiver
our entire mode of production is based on something that requires infinite growth
frosty berry
losing hundreds of liters a day and losing a few droplets is not "both are leaking"
cosmic quiver
something whose whole purpose is to maximise profits
it doesn't matter what you eat because it will do that
by any means it can
undone berry
I agree thats still terrible, and to an extent I agree that telling people to go vegan is a distracion, but your argument seems to be do nothing because you can't do everything
leaden apex
Lmao what did I start
cosmic quiver
I'm not arguing against veganism
frosty berry
it's the least informative and useful way to consider it
vestal briar
@gloomy raft Brave is just chromium with a skin
undone berry
No, but you also aren't arguing for anything
frosty berry
one is obviously less wasteful than the other
rough sapphire
BlaytFox
undone berry
What do you propose as a solution @cosmic quiver?
a solution which is actionable for an individual
cosmic quiver
leme finish OW
frosty berry
i'm not using brave because i'm not a fan of its conceptor
not only did he invent javascript, inflicting a plage on the world
leaden apex
Lmao
frosty berry
but he was caught giving money to white supremacists
vestal briar
Oh dear
undone berry
Ha - at work we have his picture printed off surrounded by post its saying "JavaScript is evil"
leaden apex
๐ป
frosty berry
i can understand he's for privacy of course, he has good reasons to
vestal briar
Fatality
frosty berry
@cosmic quiver i understand you say "let's change the system for real not fix the details", but i do believe eating less meat is more than that, and i do believe it's ok to work on both sides of the equation, you don't need to make the system worse to change it, and if the big change can't come soon enough, you need to also make the current one a little better
@gloomy raft of course not
cosmic quiver
hello I have finished OW
leaden apex
Same
frosty berry
sometime i need to turn to google for something, but it's very rare
frosty berry
hm, maybe yeah
undone berry
@cosmic quiver You never replied - or do you mostly just agree with tshirtman's prevoius message on the topic?
undone berry
I think if the goal is to bring about change by relatively peaceful means then having substantial numbers of people making extreme changes demonstrates the necessary passion required to bring about real change
Like putting your money where your mouth is essentially
cosmic quiver
I don't think personal diet changes actually amount to anything, and probably one of the biggest things you can actually do to help (as backwards as it sounds) is keep yourself healthy and happy if you're in the working life
if veganism doesn't change that then I'm good with it
even if it does?
I'm still good with it
undone berry
'I don't think personal diet changes actually amount to anything, ' Given that farming is in the top 5 pollutors, I think individuals can make a difference of a small %, as well as incentivising farmers to adopt slightly more ethical methodologies
is keep yourself healthy and happy if you're in the working life I don't follow how this helps
cosmic quiver
have you heard of peter singer
undone berry
No
cosmic quiver
interesting
he's very fond on veganism and animal rights
but he also has this idea of "effective altruism"
what does this mean?
well altruism is kind of self explanatory
you give some amount of what you have
I think he said like ~10% of your income if you can spare
to charities
to help those really in need
what does the effective part mean?
now that's where it gets interesting
effective means that instead of just donating
e.g. to your local church
you have to put effort into searching about what you are actually donating to
But just a cursory glance isn't good enough
e.g.
if I had 2 charities side by side, one of them said they put 99% of the money into charity, and 1% to the actual organisation, and another one that says they use 80% of it to charity and 20% to organisation
intuituvely it might seem like the first one is the better option
undone berry
Ok - I love that idea and can see that it makes sense - but at the same time I don't think it is an effective enough way of bringing about change surrounding climate change. The climate is not something that we can approach gradually, but extreme action is required at some level
cosmic quiver
yeah
I'm v pessimistic about climate change
I think we're already doomed
it doesn't mean I'm not gonna like
root for things to not make the world shit
but in a world where the generations that fucked, and continue to fuck the earth, and the economy, still have more power in politics we're not gonna see any large amount of change unless some form of major political revolution happens
undone berry
I just don't think your original point, at least as I interpreted it, of 'veganism won't have any real effect' is either valid or useful. But it seems for the most part we agree on this
cosmic quiver
we've known for like what
40? years
at least 30
that this is the exact situation we're headed in
undone berry
But there has been no action, for 20 years climate denial was the norm among a lot of people
cosmic quiver
for 15-10 years we've known the situation is a lot worse than the estimates
and we still haven't done jack shit
sure we have had like
undone berry
now we're too late to stop a lot of things, and are just in damage control
undone berry
I don't even think damage control has really started
I think damage control is the phase we'll enter when something brings about socio political change
cosmic quiver
well it has but it's just not on a scale where it's actually effective
cosmic quiver
amazing isn't it
undone berry
Yeah, we are now where we should have been 20+ years ago
Most people are at the point of "Huh - solar panels are pretty smart"
cosmic quiver
yeah lol
maybe if nuclear wasn't so stigmatised after the world wars we might have used less fossil fuels and might have a chance
or maybe if we just like
listened to scientists
and switched to renewables
lol
I think we're gonna be at a tipping point soon where it's gonna be more affordable to use renewables so maybe we'll see that happen
undone berry
The disdain for nuclear is one of the things that I find truly depressing
cosmic quiver
I never finished explaining how being healthy and comfortable is actually somehow better, it's because you can keep working and that money you make from working if you put it to actually good use (instead of jiust buying things you don't need) you can most likely achieve more with said money than if you were to let's say move with your family to educate people first hand about building mosquito nets or how to use water filters etc.
Again I don't condone things like joining humanitarian aid, I think it's great
And I don't think it's stupid people do it
But it was pointed out to me that if you used your money effectively some charity organisation might get e.g. 5 people instead of me to do the exact same work
undone berry
I think the idea of actually putting consideration into the causes and specifics of what you support makes a lot sense
undone berry
I've bookmarked a ted talk from him - but goodnight
frosty berry
it's wrong to underestimate the effect individuals can have on the system, changing habits and talking about it gently (not telling people they are wrong and you are better than them), can trigger massive change over time, if enough people embrace it, it can have a definite impact
vapid bluff
majorities are comprised of individuals
vestal briar
Ooh "8-bit" avatar is snazzy
tulip palm
what?
summer rampart
owez finally got around to playing with retrobot
vestal briar
There is a spider and a moth in our bathtub
Just hanging out 10cm apart
Night all
๐
rough sapphire
gnite
rocky kernel
I wish that mojang would update their rapi free version of minecraft.
I understand it has to be minimal to run on a pi, but you should be able to at least use the new redstone features
It's just a tad frustrating
tame pier
It's free, right?
solid pollen
Hemm sorry @sand goblet but yearsteday you were talking about a link to join the server, but I wasn't able to find it out :)
solid pollen
Thanks
This look very promising
BTW does schematica is authorized
Because I see that litematica is
Oh and also is mouse tweak too?
solid pollen
So no mouse tweak then :)
sand goblet
I think I likely wouldn't allow it anyway because of the advantage it gives in survival games
rough sapphire
smacks gdude
sand goblet
What? Haha
rough sapphire
Pretty good, just wrapping things up before going to sleep
rough sapphire
I played years ago but haven't touched it since Microsoft took over
sand goblet
Ah? Okay, I see
I remember a whole bunch of people quit over that
I think it's like 25 euro
sand goblet
I'd better get up, afk
rough sapphire
i remember when minecraft was five dollars and you could gift it to a friend one christmas if you'd bought before
I remember when it was free
it was still free, after that
you had to pay for /survivaltest/
classic was still a thing for a while after that
@gloomy raft Sure isn't
in fact, classic is still a thing, just not.. well, mojang-affiliated
Roblox you mean?
roblox was so epic back in the day
Huh?
i don't know who any of these are
oh epic, i blue myself
summer rampart
๐
vapid bluff
sand goblet
just noticed the channel name lol
vapid bluff
ffs. in front: esp8266 board. in back: esp32 board
esp32 board is exactly 1 column too small to fit snugly on the breadboard
esp32 board was designed by trolls
tired osprey
yeah and both board were designed by chinese people
vapid bluff
im gonna have to take these breadboards apart ๐ฆ
or get another pair
maybe that was their plan all along
new chip? now you need new breadboards too
it's all a conspiracy
big breadboard bringing down the proletariat
rough sapphire
lets get this breadboard
tired osprey
i mean you can just do whatever you want on the breadboard and wire your esp32 to it
vapid bluff
hey @tired osprey would you happen to know why the esp32 (running micropython) reboots every time i close its repl on putty
doesnt happen with the esp8266
ive flashed the exact same code on both too
- some wifi stuff for the 32
tired osprey
not at alll into micropython.....I guess if youre curious enough you could read the responsible source for the repl
Ive had one experience with micropython (where I actually did read the REPL source) where it almost got my MCU to the point of unusability
and since then I decided not to touch it again
tired osprey
well to be honest it wasnt one with great support BUT it was listed as supported
and it was an stm32h743zi
vapid bluff
hey this sounds pretty neat
tired osprey
and what happened was that
A) the REPL didnt work
B) I almost couldnt get it into flashing another binary to get rid off micropython again
the h7 is great if you already got all its peripherals implemented
which at the time of flashing micropython to it was what i was doing
iirc it was a problem with the ADC not picking up the last 3 or 4 bits properly so I wanted to see what micropython does different by reading the responsible registers when executing an analog read with it
vapid bluff
the ADC was dropping data?
tired osprey
it just wasnt picking up the last 3 or 4 bit at all
vapid bluff
tf
tired osprey
which turned out to be my fault because I gave it a clock of 32 mhz while the limit is somewhat around 8 or something so when i changed the clock to an internal 4 mhz one it worked
which tbh i wouldnt have picked up with micropython so the effort of getting it to work wouldnt have been worth in the first place
because the clock selection happens at an entirely different section in memory
vapid bluff
oh ok so it was just a bit too fast for those last bits?
did you try lowering it to something like 28 MHz instead?
is that even doable
tired osprey
i can play with some of the dozens of clocks i have at hand in that thing to a certain degree
others are just fixed
it's got 3 pll clock with each pll having 3 outputs which each get their own divider assigned
but not all clocks can be used for all peripherals ๐ฆ
tired osprey
a pll is basically multiply the input frquency by x/y
there we go
so I basically put per_ck into it as I didnt want to configure pll2 or 3 at the time
and per_ck can output one of three constant clocks
a 4 mhz a 64 and a 48
and like the idiot I am i picked the 64 mhz one because it was the default really
initially the adc wouldnt output a single bit because pll2_p_ck is the default clock which was not enabled so it wasnt even getting any frequency
which was also confusing as hell
embedded is so fun
tired osprey
I set it
Well
I have to enable it that's responsibility of the software
At the time I wasn't working in the level of Arduino stuff where you have all the functionality at your hand already
I was building that functionality
I mean often times pll2 and 3 won't ever be used if your just doing basic stuff so in order to save power they have all right to defualr disable them
vapid bluff
what were you going to use it for
you build rockets and mini statellites and stuff right?
something to do with that?
tired osprey
The rocket is not by us but yes
vapid bluff
an mcu with that kind of calculation power, im guessing physics calculations?
toxic delta
just a generaly question, i do work on a mac and sometimes when i search things on the internet and then click on any part of the screen a random link for ebay just pops up with the thing i searched up,
for example i was searching the definition of "pent" and then i clicked and this link came https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_nkw=t pen
it doesnt happen all the time maybe once every 5 searches,
im not sure if its a google plugin i may have added such as adblocked
any suggestions
tired osprey
What triggers me the most about this chip is how ADC 1 and 2 are controlled by the same reset bits so if you reset one your reset both even if the other is doing shit already
It's actually because we're doing image stuff which is quite fun to do if you have 1 MB ram and 5 mb image
tired osprey
We make photos with two horribly horribly horribly designed and documented cameras yes
They have been bothering me for 2 months by now
Fucking undocumented piece of Chinese shit.....
No I am not exaggerating
vapid bluff
so this rocket actually goes into space?