#ot1-perplexing-regexing | Python | Page 297

torn ridge Jul 19, 2019, 7:55 PM

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was it you that told me about it @sinful copper ?

sinful copper Jul 19, 2019, 7:55 PM

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yeah

torn ridge Jul 19, 2019, 7:55 PM

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its beautiful!

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and i loves it!

rough sapphire Jul 19, 2019, 8:10 PM

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it doesn't look bad, maybe I like scp because it has a futuristic kind of look to it

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this is my current setup... source code pro w/ monokai coloring

📎 Untitled.png

rain spindle Jul 19, 2019, 8:59 PM

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Its so satisfying to have a program that uses itself.

frosty berry Jul 19, 2019, 9:53 PM

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pretty happy about my own setup 😃

📎 capture-2019-07-19T23-52-52.png

sand goblet Jul 19, 2019, 9:57 PM

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The vim is strong with this one

frosty berry Jul 19, 2019, 10:06 PM

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it is

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i hand wrote the regexp to theme the kvlang on the left, we had something that was a slight variation on the yaml highlighting before, pretty happy with what i got

rain spindle Jul 19, 2019, 10:20 PM

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https://i.mcaq.me/79xd.png

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vscode + gruvbox + fira code

vestal briar Jul 19, 2019, 11:13 PM

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Stop

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Stop making pretty vscode look like spacemacs with a gpu that had a stroke trying to render colours

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Also do I see a try: except: where it could easily be an if statement

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Line 59-65

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Also do I see yaml used instead of toml for something that should really be toml because it's a simple config

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With no cogs and a file named run.py when it really should all be contained in a module with __main__.py

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And a not needed newline at line 63

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With unlinted code, as seen with the comments not having 2 spaces

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And that is all the critisism I can give

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@rain spindle

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Toxic helping scOwez activate!

rain spindle Jul 19, 2019, 11:19 PM

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@vestal briar Excuse me the code is flake8 limited and blackend

vestal briar Jul 19, 2019, 11:20 PM

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That's not

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There's only one space on them comments

rain spindle Jul 19, 2019, 11:20 PM

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Yeah, that's was my linter says to do.

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In some circumstances you use 2

vestal briar Jul 19, 2019, 11:20 PM

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Flake8 nor Black say that by default

rain spindle Jul 19, 2019, 11:20 PM

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Flake8 does

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If it's not on its own line is 2

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 3:36 AM

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why does everything have a comic-con panel now?

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like what do the new terminator and that witcher show have to do with comics?

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and top gun?

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might as well rename it entirely

tame pier Jul 20, 2019, 3:41 AM

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?

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 3:43 AM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1FSE2DVUz8

YouTube

Variety

Arnold Schwarzenegger & 'Terminator: Dark Fate' Stars - FULL Comic...

'Terminator: Dark Fate' Comic-Con Hall H panel featured Arnold Schwarzenegger, Linda Hamilton, Mackenzie Davis, Gabriel Luna, Natalia Reyes, Diego Boneta & d...

▶ Play video

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new terminator film coming out. they did a panel for it at the comic con currently going on

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there's also a new top gun movie and a tv show based on the witcher games/books, who released their trailers at comic con and i believe will probably have a panel too

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im just wondering why they even call it 'comic' con at this point since there are so many appearances not related to comics

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oh yeah game of thrones had a panel too

tame pier Jul 20, 2019, 3:54 AM

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Well, comics and films have a long history together

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Many films come from comics or books, and the fandoms overlap, so it make sense to me

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 3:59 AM

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idk, just feels like a bit of a mess. more of a general-media-con than a comic-con

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id get it if the movies/shows were based on comics

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or they were there to discuss comics in the franchise

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like i think both terminator and witcher do have comic series

pine vector Jul 20, 2019, 4:00 AM

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top gun i don't understand. terminator is a stretch, but kind of falls into nerdom. witcher/WD/GOT...they fit, imo.
and comic con has been beyond "just comics" for some time now.

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 4:04 AM

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this is their mission statement on the site

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Mission Statement
The SAN DIEGO COMIC CONVENTION (Comic-Con International) is a California Nonprofit Public Benefit Corporation organized for charitable purposes and dedicated to creating the general public’s awareness of and appreciation for comics and related popular art forms, including participation in and support of public presentations, conventions, exhibits, museums and other public outreach activities which celebrate the historic and ongoing contribution of comics to art and culture.

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that makes it clearer i suppose

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still

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which celebrate the historic and ongoing contribution of comics to art and culture.

rough sapphire Jul 20, 2019, 4:17 AM

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I don't think GOT fits.. they just want to sell other aspects of the franchise

pine vector Jul 20, 2019, 4:18 AM

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that is the "mission" yes. but...follow the money?

Comic-Con guests are expected to generate an estimated $149 million in regional impact to San Diego, with a direct attendee spend of $88 million.

best i can tell (they don't seem to file financials very openly), the organization only gets about $20 million of that...

rough sapphire Jul 20, 2019, 4:18 AM

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and terminator has comics too!

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 4:30 AM

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yeah, no question about the amount of money and eyes involved. definitely makes sense why everyone would want their thing to appear.

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i wonder if at some point they did consider changing the name but decided itd be better to hold on to the comic-con name/brand loyalty

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also i guess it's kind of like a tradition now and changing the name would violate the uhh... tradition-ness of it

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like what if we just started calling christmas 'the yearly buy-a-present-event' or something lol

rough sapphire Jul 20, 2019, 7:53 AM

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is there a c++ discord

torn ridge Jul 20, 2019, 8:00 AM

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there is, but they have constant arguments

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 8:06 AM

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oh man the dad jokes

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my dad told me a joke about some paper once...

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it was tearable

rough sapphire Jul 20, 2019, 8:13 AM

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aww theres no cymbal emoji

tame terrace Jul 20, 2019, 8:14 AM

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make one and we can add it.

cerulean basin Jul 20, 2019, 8:26 AM

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@tulip imp it's a joke that I'm a nitro booster

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 8:27 AM

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oh wait its apart of your name lol

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hehe

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i didnt even realise

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oh damn you're a code jam winner

cerulean basin Jul 20, 2019, 8:27 AM

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pystrong

junior basin Jul 20, 2019, 8:28 AM

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been thinking about getting a python tattoo recently

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like a snake wrapped around the python logo... im undecided tho

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might just get a star wars quote in binary

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 8:29 AM

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i wouldnt

junior basin Jul 20, 2019, 8:29 AM

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y not?

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 8:30 AM

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i dunno, you might fall in love with ruby or c++?

junior basin Jul 20, 2019, 8:30 AM

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i already have a js tattoo

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its on my ass where it belongs tho 😉

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 8:31 AM

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heheheh lel
that gave me a good laugh

JavaScript: one of the most used languages in the world which was put together in 10 days

junior basin Jul 20, 2019, 8:31 AM

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i hate js

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with a passion

frosty berry Jul 20, 2019, 8:31 AM

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and had to be fixed over the next 20 years until it doesn't look anything like the original thing

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 8:31 AM

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what did it used to look like when it came out?

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i wasnt even born then lol

frosty berry Jul 20, 2019, 8:32 AM

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i hated js for long, and then feared learning the modern, fast moving thing it had become, but now i kind of need to learn it for work, and it seems it got a lot better

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 8:33 AM

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I am learning Python at the moment. I am stepping away from Front end development for a little bit to learn some backend and become cue epic music and deep voice the full stack developer

frosty berry Jul 20, 2019, 8:33 AM

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no objects, no scope, even weirder in type conversions, behaviors of basic things changed a lot between implementations (so browsers), slow as hell and buggy …

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no const, haha, hell no

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 8:34 AM

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did you know there is a language called C-- lol

junior basin Jul 20, 2019, 8:35 AM

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im strictly a backend dev. not because i can't do front end, but because i can't make it look pretty and it irritates me

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not a very artsy person if im being honest

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 8:36 AM

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ye i like front end a lot because

its easier for me
i like design, art and specifically ui design

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Python is 29 years old
That's crazy

junior basin Jul 20, 2019, 8:36 AM

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you give me a list of buttons that you have and what you want them to do, i got ur back.
you give me a list of things you want to have buttons for, and my cat could make it look better than i could

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thats why i love building discord bots. its literally all backend

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 8:38 AM

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In 3 years, the language of C will be 50 years old

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Im one of those people who designs my app, webapp or whatever im making in adobe xd, then i make it in html and css and then i add the backend

rough sapphire Jul 20, 2019, 9:56 AM

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@torn ridge can you send me invite

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i cant find it

torn ridge Jul 20, 2019, 10:39 AM

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@rough sapphire i dont know if there is one, i just made a programming joke!

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 11:00 AM

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TIL that the Avatar logo is the Papyrus font lmao

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 11:02 AM

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would you prefer comic sans

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 11:03 AM

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yes

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@torn ridge woah you're a codejam winner
is that like a game jam but for general programming?

sand goblet Jul 20, 2019, 11:04 AM

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see #announcements and you'll find the code jam stream, which starts in an hour :>

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 11:06 AM

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oh nice
is it something that is happening every day, or is it a one off?

sand goblet Jul 20, 2019, 11:07 AM

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it's every 3 months or so

torn ridge Jul 20, 2019, 11:08 AM

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i am a winner! my mums says so!

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 11:08 AM

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Is there any age limit/other restrictions for entering the next code jam?

summer rampart Jul 20, 2019, 11:10 AM

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there isn't, as long as you pass the qualifier
that being said there is a hard limit on age in this server, being Discord's TOS requirements of 13 years of age

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 11:10 AM

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Ok good I make it in

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 11:11 AM

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@tulip imp were you watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhlJNJopOQ

YouTube

Saturday Night Live

Papyrus - SNL

Years after Avatar's release, there's one thing Steven (Ryan Gosling) just can't get over. #SNL #SNLPremiere #SNL43 Subscribe to SNL: https://goo.gl/tUsXwM S...

▶ Play video

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 11:12 AM

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ye

robust sierra Jul 20, 2019, 11:25 AM

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i like the new status icons

📎 Screen_Shot_2019-07-20_at_12.24.59.png

tulip imp Jul 20, 2019, 11:41 AM

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Nah i dont really
looks too wide tbh

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cant wait for the code jam

vestal briar Jul 20, 2019, 11:54 AM

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I have colour blind mode on because it has some nicer status icons

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That's the only thing it changes

sand goblet Jul 20, 2019, 11:54 AM

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It just puts icons inside them I think, right?

vestal briar Jul 20, 2019, 11:56 AM

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I think?

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It has some varying shapes for statuses

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I'm not color blind & I don't know why discord didn't enable them in the beginning anyway

robust sierra Jul 20, 2019, 12:10 PM

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this is weird

📎 Screen_Shot_2019-07-20_at_13.10.25.png

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riff's pfp eats into the icon a bit

forest swan Jul 20, 2019, 12:18 PM

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he's just hungry

vestal briar Jul 20, 2019, 12:44 PM

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Haha

gentle moss Jul 20, 2019, 2:50 PM

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i'd love to smash datto with a sledgehammer but they probably have a backup

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fuck sake these devices are utter mayhem to try and admin

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no direct SSH access, no LAN web panel

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supposed to be "hands off" configuration, so the customer just plugs it in and BAM you see it in a web panel

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well i just got an replacement router thanks to a VPN issue i've been back and forthing with datto for 4-5 weeks

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and it wont phone home to get its config

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on 4G failover or when plugged in (and i assume) pulling DHCP from the network

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so now i have to wait another week to get back to them and see wtf is going on

wet steppe Jul 20, 2019, 2:52 PM

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Oof

gentle moss Jul 20, 2019, 2:53 PM

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making it all web only is really fucking painful when you know exactly what you want to do

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:/

wet steppe Jul 20, 2019, 2:53 PM

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they don't want to scare the normies away

gentle moss Jul 20, 2019, 2:54 PM

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in some situations it's really handy, like we can configure it on the web panel before it even arrives at the customers, they plug it in, it pulls config over 4G, boom

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sorted

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if it works

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 2:54 PM

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why does it take a week to get in touch with them

gentle moss Jul 20, 2019, 2:54 PM

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i only work 3 days meta

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thur/fri/sat

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get in touch on thur, hear by fri

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oh no, it's the weekend

vapid bluff Jul 20, 2019, 2:55 PM

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oh thats right

gentle moss Jul 20, 2019, 2:55 PM

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plus i can't do work on this network mid week

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loads of processes running 24/7

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oh sweet, now it's showing online but it's not functioning properly and i can't access the config

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woot

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well it's connected and routing but i have no access to its control panel and all the settings have been wiped.

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SUPER WOOT

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smh

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my boss likes to sell them because we can charge a monthly fee, since it's a subscription service

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however we could order pfsense boxes for them and charge our own management fee

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

pine vector Jul 20, 2019, 3:04 PM

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stop using logic... :pfft:

gentle moss Jul 20, 2019, 3:05 PM

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plus a config swap is literally scp'ing an xml file

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and done

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guess i better go revert the changes

gentle moss Jul 20, 2019, 3:36 PM

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oh sweet jesus, there are now 4 of the same device in the web panel o_O

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6 weeks trying to fix a poxy fucking site to site vpn dropout -.-

sand goblet Jul 20, 2019, 3:52 PM

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I learned today that sometimes you just have to nuke it and redeploy

gentle moss Jul 20, 2019, 3:53 PM

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i CAN'T

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all the config stuff is cloud based off mac address

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.<

sand goblet Jul 20, 2019, 3:53 PM

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Aha

gentle moss Jul 20, 2019, 3:54 PM

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if it was a matter of that i'd have done that first thing this morning and not been in a rage

vestal briar Jul 20, 2019, 4:02 PM

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Last team

shell raptor Jul 20, 2019, 7:00 PM

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Hello everyone! Join us in Clash of Code to compete in agility, brevity and reverse-engineering! It's a free online multiplayer game where you fight other players with your programming abilities. One round lasts 15 minutes, and you'll have to solve a problem by writing a short program.

Conventional rule: we will only use Python 2 or Python 3 in the challenges.

Invite link: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/9347774b47ee960f3006646541e2842c9e468b

You can sign in using an existing github/facebook/google/linkedin account.

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The game is starting in 15 seconds

shell raptor Jul 20, 2019, 7:19 PM

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If anyone would like to join the next game (it will start in ~20 minutes), react with python to this message.

frosty berry Jul 20, 2019, 7:23 PM

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ok, let's have some fun

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i should probably do such things in js rather than python to learn it, though, my python is fine, my js is not 😬

shell raptor Jul 20, 2019, 7:41 PM

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Invite link: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/934797bacd16940b393a41972eabb90a3a14fd
You can sign in using an existing github/facebook/google/linkedin account.

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If noone except us will join, we might try JS, I'm learning it too.

rain spindle Jul 20, 2019, 7:42 PM

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Sorry I broke my server

shell raptor Jul 20, 2019, 7:42 PM

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Well, next time.

rain spindle Jul 20, 2019, 7:42 PM

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Gotta get it up and running ASAP

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I maybe ran iptables --policy OUTPUT DROP

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NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT RUN THIS COMMAND ON YOUR SERVER

frosty berry Jul 20, 2019, 7:48 PM

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yeah, seems like a bad idea

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and not just because it starts with "iptables"

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i should have spent more time removing the comments from the example code >_<'

sand goblet Jul 20, 2019, 7:49 PM

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lol, drop all outgoing traffic

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that's one way to fuck shit up

frosty berry Jul 20, 2019, 7:49 PM

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at least it's still listening

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so if you find a way to make it do thing through udp, maybe you have a way out 😛

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else i would just reboot it, assuming you didn't add that to a saved configuration

rain spindle Jul 20, 2019, 9:17 PM

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I ended up resetting the server

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I needed to do it anyways

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@frosty berry I swear I had already made my ssh port open.... i hadn't

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So yeah

vestal briar Jul 20, 2019, 11:06 PM

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📎 unknown.png

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(I asked before I asked on here)

sand goblet Jul 20, 2019, 11:06 PM

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Why bother

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Drama's already over

vestal briar Jul 20, 2019, 11:18 PM

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Just news that he's not coming back

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Not trying to start anything with it

jagged fog Jul 20, 2019, 11:24 PM

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damn I missed the game

vestal briar Jul 20, 2019, 11:38 PM

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My contributions are non existant recently

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📎 unknown.png

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I dropped everything to learn rust atm

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Last commit was officially 1 week ago

tired osprey Jul 20, 2019, 11:41 PM

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then make rust projects!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vestal briar Jul 20, 2019, 11:41 PM

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But me no how to make a crate

tired osprey Jul 20, 2019, 11:41 PM

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cargo init --lib

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code .

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write code

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cargo package

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cargo login <token>

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cargo publish

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done

vestal briar Jul 20, 2019, 11:41 PM

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I have 70 lines in a little mod

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Time to learn how to (propely) make a crate

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And how to write unit tests

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I have never implamented any testing in python

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Huh

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https://doc.rust-lang.org/cargo

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@tired osprey What's the docstring alternative with rust?

tired osprey Jul 21, 2019, 12:00 AM

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/// HEY
/// I am a doc string

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fn test()

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 12:01 AM

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/// are specific to them?

tired osprey Jul 21, 2019, 12:01 AM

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yup

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 12:02 AM

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Cool

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Thanks :)

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Do you put them above metadata

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#[allow(dead_code)]
pub fn check_code(&self) -> Result<bool, io::Error> {```

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(metadata as in #[allow(dead_code)]) @tired osprey

tired osprey Jul 21, 2019, 12:25 AM

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thats not metadata thats proc macros

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and yes you do

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 1:08 AM

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Yeah

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I forgot the name for a second

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@tired osprey Curent iteration (this is in lib.rs currently): https://pastebin.com/kZFrZJeF

Pastebin

[Rust] use std::io; /// UPCCode is the frontend struct for the ...

tired osprey Jul 21, 2019, 1:10 AM

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if its a pub method the allow dead_code macro is not required

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at least if youre writing a lib

rough sapphire Jul 21, 2019, 1:12 AM

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what are some cool beginner projects?

tired osprey Jul 21, 2019, 1:19 AM

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check the pins in #python-discussion @rough sapphire

rough sapphire Jul 21, 2019, 1:20 AM

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thank you 😃

half spoke Jul 21, 2019, 1:51 AM

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Wow, Godot is super nice

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First time using an actual engine, it's so much nicer than just a framework

charred harbor Jul 21, 2019, 3:46 AM

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i play roblox

tame pier Jul 21, 2019, 3:49 AM

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i am sorry

lilac glade Jul 21, 2019, 4:09 AM

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mewlul

tame pier Jul 21, 2019, 4:09 AM

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Oh, the channel name

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sigh

pine vector Jul 21, 2019, 4:18 AM

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hands KE an "its ok, its late" excuse 🎁

tame pier Jul 21, 2019, 4:19 AM

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I blame the Whiskey

lilac glade Jul 21, 2019, 4:20 AM

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the shiny math rocks make clickclack sounds.
needs the more

needs all the more

tame pier Jul 21, 2019, 4:20 AM

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what in the

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clack clack

pine vector Jul 21, 2019, 4:21 AM

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Ref has hit Brick-mode

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https://tenor.com/x8TO.gif

Tenor

i love lamp

▶ Play video

lilac glade Jul 21, 2019, 4:21 AM

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I am the intoxicate

pine vector Jul 21, 2019, 4:21 AM

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lol

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THE intoxicate

lilac glade Jul 21, 2019, 4:22 AM

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Coherence has left the building. Only math rocks

pine vector Jul 21, 2019, 4:22 AM

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clickity clacks*

tame pier Jul 21, 2019, 4:28 AM

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Mathrocker has joined the chat

lilac glade Jul 21, 2019, 4:32 AM

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I am the shiny math rock man

📎 Snapchat-1889948591.jpg

tame pier Jul 21, 2019, 4:32 AM

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lmao

pine vector Jul 21, 2019, 4:41 AM

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time for sleepie weepies. finally got this ansible running, but probably have to convert another command to a systemd service. hooray for non-working command options! fromtimeimportsleep

tame pier Jul 21, 2019, 4:51 AM

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sleep well 👋

abstract leaf Jul 21, 2019, 8:55 AM

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I play roblox

sand goblet Jul 21, 2019, 8:55 AM

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I'm sorry for your loss

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 8:56 AM

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play mc

abstract leaf Jul 21, 2019, 8:56 AM

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Ok

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 8:56 AM

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there is one good gamemode in roblox

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Phantom Forces

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its a pretty cool FPS

abstract leaf Jul 21, 2019, 8:56 AM

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Actually yes

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That’s good

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 8:56 AM

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Phantom Forces is pretty legit

abstract leaf Jul 21, 2019, 8:57 AM

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Ye I’m trash tho lul

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 8:57 AM

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and Jailbreak can be pretty good

robust sierra Jul 21, 2019, 3:13 PM

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phantom forces cool.

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 3:13 PM

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yeet

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 4:15 PM

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Yes

rough sapphire Jul 21, 2019, 4:40 PM

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wonder if anyone remembers drummeur

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he was p active in the off topic channels

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 4:40 PM

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yeah

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 4:40 PM

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I do not

sand goblet Jul 21, 2019, 4:41 PM

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yeah, I do

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 4:42 PM

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did they have a colored name or something

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IIRC

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 5:27 PM

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@tired osprey How do I name a crate and fix some of these documentation test errord

tired osprey Jul 21, 2019, 5:28 PM

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the crates name is the name you set in teh Cargo.toml

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you should set a few other met data vars as well you can check those in the cargo docs

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and im not even understanding what the second half of that sentence means

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 5:29 PM

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When you do cargo test on the documentation you wrote inside the code

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It tests the actual examples

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Right I fixed

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Woo https://gitlab.com/scOwez/upc-checker now passes all tests

GitLab

scOwez / upc-checker

A Rust Crate for calculating a UPC code using a check digit.

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 5:33 PM

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nice

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 5:45 PM

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Ok I have wrote 80 lines of testing

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183 lines in total

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I have checked most usecases realistically

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And I have a CI setup 🎉

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It is sad that if you put something on gitlab it only counts commits from when you added it, not from when the repo started

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 6:07 PM

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Update: added logo 😎

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📎 avatar.png

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Really crude

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Barcode means something

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And I am setting up gitlab pages so I can have an online documentation page that is updated on every push to master automatically

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https://gitlab.com/scOwez/upc-checker/pipelines/72123639 Fingers crossed!

GitLab

Pipeline · scOwez / upc-checker

A Rust Crate for calculating a UPC code using a check digit.

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 6:37 PM

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@wet steppe Can you see: https://scowez.gitlab.io/upc-checker

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Gitlab Pages takes a while to update for the UK

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 6:38 PM

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no i cant

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 6:38 PM

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👍

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 6:38 PM

#

404

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 6:38 PM

#

Yeah

#

It is up

#

The servers just take horriblly long to update

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 6:38 PM

#

my github page sometimes took ages to update

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 6:38 PM

#

Like 4 hours

#

Yeah

#

They must be using extreme caching for there servers so it is as cheap as possible to host these static pages

#

So we just see a 404 page for like 6 hours

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

Oof

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

Oh well

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 6:39 PM

#

yeah I imagine they want to spend as little as possible

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

It is a 10 mins setup to have free, automatically generated rust documentation for life

#

So I can't really complain

wet steppe Jul 21, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

sounds like malware

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 6:40 PM

#

What is?

#

Also rip my contribution activity when learning rust

📎 unknown.png

autumn night Jul 21, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

the name of this channel cuts deep

tired osprey Jul 21, 2019, 7:03 PM

#

you already said that yesterday

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 7:04 PM

#

Yes yes

#

But it is before you said make a project!

#

It was a test, alright!

rough sapphire Jul 21, 2019, 9:17 PM

#

This is the second time I have been extremely happy to get a seemingly meaningless result

#

I successfully got my server to return this JSON object json {'message': 'you did it, yay'}

onyx vigil Jul 21, 2019, 9:20 PM

#

Well

#

I do play roblox

torn ridge Jul 21, 2019, 9:22 PM

#

im sorry for your loss 😄

vestal briar Jul 21, 2019, 9:40 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

Hmm 🤔

brisk compass Jul 21, 2019, 9:40 PM

#

dabward

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 12:35 AM

#

@vestal briar Gitlab is so ugly.

#

Reminds me as to why I moved from Bitbucket

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 12:36 AM

#

GitLab has better ui then GitHub?

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 12:36 AM

#

I beg to differ

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 12:37 AM

#

GitHub is casually infamous for an outdated ui

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 12:37 AM

#

I think Github looks pretty great, actually.

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 12:37 AM

#

Your opinion

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 12:37 AM

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

Either way, how you been?

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 12:42 AM

#

Good

#

Hbu?

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 1:49 AM

#

I'm doing pretty good

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

wish github had a better way to organise repos

tame pier Jul 22, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

how so

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

folders would be nice for a start

tame pier Jul 22, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

wdym

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

you could put your forks in one folder

#

sources in another

tame pier Jul 22, 2019, 2:09 AM

#

like in a single project?

#

there's a filter option for that already

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 2:10 AM

#

yeah, but still

#

gitlab has them

#

why not github

#

doesnt seem too hard to do

#

makes things less cluttered

tame pier Jul 22, 2019, 2:10 AM

#

Guess it's something not a lot of peeps want

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 2:11 AM

#

i saw an article where someone used organizations as a janky way to do it

#

but the downside being youd have to change the project url to move it into an organization

#

https://github.com/dear-github/dear-github/issues/74

#

https://andreicioara.com/how-i-organize-my-github-repositories-ce877db2e8b6 this is the article

tame pier Jul 22, 2019, 2:14 AM

#

Interesting

#

Dunno why they haven't

#

Wouldn't be surprised if it was on their backlog, just low on the list

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 2:21 AM

#

kinda gives me an idea for something like tweetdeck but for github 🤔

#

you'd store repo organization info in a special repo on your account

#

other 'gitdeck' users would then see the same organization inside the program by having it read from this repo

#

so itd all be nice and self contained

#

github.com/[username]/_gitdeck_data

#

i guess one option for now is to use a github.io page showing a repo tree and have some script/gui app on the client side to configure and update it

#

meh, too jank to be worth the effort

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 3:55 AM

#

@vapid bluff Yeah, that's weird. It'd be broken for anyone without this one special app

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 3:56 AM

#

which one?

#

gitdeck or the github.io page?

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 3:56 AM

#

The application you came up with

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 3:57 AM

#

right yea

#

itd just be like an alternative frontend to github

#

youd have to have everyone using it lol

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:10 AM

#

I also like gitlab's UI a lot more than github's

#

Way more features

#

Way easier to navigate

#

Github is a little infamous for having hidden pages

#

Most people don't even realise that github has a branches overview page and a blame tool

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 AM

#

Does GitHub have an Android app?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 AM

#

There's a lot of third party ones

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 AM

#

Which one is the best?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 AM

#

No idea

#

I don't bother, working with code on mobile is always a pain

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 6:31 AM

#

Lmao

languid kelp Jul 22, 2019, 6:53 AM

#

the computer wasn't working

#

turns out i was not doing something right

rough sapphire Jul 22, 2019, 7:18 AM

#

B

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 11:32 AM

#

I like GitLab for it's ui, features and ui again and features again

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 1:08 PM

#

I prefer to have CI/CD seperate

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:37 PM

#

I like it on 1 platform

#

It's pretty hard for it to fall seeing how much capital it is hosting

#

So I rely on it

#

It's also just a really nice integration, just a yml and it's connectred forever

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

can you bit a bit more specific @vestal briar

#

which parts of gitlab do you like exactly?

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

The UI + UX

#

CI integration

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

what about the features tho

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:39 PM

#

Features

#

CI, code review, gitlab pages, trello-like boards

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

and the ui too right?

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

https://about.gitlab.com/

GitLab

The first single application for the entire DevOps lifecycle - GitLab

“From project planning and source code management to CI/CD and monitoring, GitLab is a single application for the entire DevOps lifecycle. Only GitLab enables Concurrent DevOps to make the software lifecycle 200% faster.”

#

Yeah I said it at the top

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

ok but how about the features

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:40 PM

#

is this an ui or an featur

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

I apologise about that straggler navbar

#

That's the features

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

is the ui a feature

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

Yeah sure

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

so you just like the features

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

Well yes

#

That is sort of what a product is

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

so you hate the ui

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:41 PM

#

A good product is lots of easy to use and well-made features

#

The UI being a good and polished feature

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

no you just said you only like the features

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

Are you just trying to twist my words with content that doesn't even make sense?

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

meta why start argument lol

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

Yeah

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

im just trying to understand

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 1:42 PM

#

let the boi enjoy his gitlab

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

do u like the features

#

or the ui

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

The ui is a feature

#

And I like the features

#

That what a product is

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

but is the feature a ui

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

??

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

yes

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

UI, UX, CI, Devops -> Features -> Good product

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:43 PM

#

scowez probably meant to say UX

#

he's not great with words

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

I said both

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

im just trollin

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

and yeah, the UI is pretty great

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

goteem

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

people get flustered because it isn't the same as github's

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

We can tell

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

sure sure

#

if i hadnt stopped youd be outside my house rn

#

with a machete

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

#

GitLab's UI/UX > GitHub's

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

which, in all fairness

#

could be pretty fun

#

not gonna lie

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

Ok then

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

maybe if they were plastic machetes though

#

or foam

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

Is meta high and annoying

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

well yes

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

I didn't realize that meta was like this 😄

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

Nah, he's just mad because he lost his lead

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:45 PM

#

Just in the fucking congo checking crack for large cartels spilling it all over his keyboard shaking

#

😅

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

do you like the ui and features of girhub though

#

github

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

The crap did I just miss?

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

Meta trying to troll

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

feature-wise github is way behind basically everyone else

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

And utterly failing

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

Why are we macheteying meta

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

Yep

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:46 PM

#

plastic macheteying*

#

and/or foam

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

I'd go with foam

#

Better sound

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

So poundland pirate swords?

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

-fwmp-

#

Well yeah

#

Also poundland doesn't sound...SFW

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

📎 iu.png

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

poundland is an awesome shop

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

It's foam but looks like plastic ^

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

so good

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

Yep

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

poundland is pretty neat, yeah

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

So nice

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 1:47 PM

#

I'm guessing it's like Dollar Tree in the US or something?

#

Just a cheapy shop?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

they exist over here too, used to be called eurozone, but now it's dealz

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

Like there are a ton of branded stuff for like half the price

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

Ah yeah, it's what I thought then

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

It's amazing

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

Cool

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 1:48 PM

#

Like normally 6pack of quavers is like 1.90

#

It's £1 there

#

Better examples then that ofc

#

@sand goblet My words are grape!

#

📎 unknown.png

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:52 PM

#

Dealz is great too

#

you can get a single pack of bacon fries for like €2 or something in most stores

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

bacon fries?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

or you can get a pack of bacon fries and scampi bites, like 8 packs, for €2 in dealz

#

yeah

#

they're corn snacks

#

really good ones

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 1:53 PM

#

ah

#

these?

📎 51jCEJc4nOL.png

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 1:54 PM

#

Yeeees

#

so good

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

gdudeToday at 1:45 AM
Nah, he's just mad because he lost his lead

havent been able to get a wink of sleep since this happened tbh

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 1:58 PM

#

Medium Oof

vapid bluff Jul 22, 2019, 1:59 PM

#

all my walls are covered with jackbox screenshots

#

trying to figure out where it all went wrong

#

wow bacon fries

#

that sounds amazing

#

do they actually taste like bacon

#

or is it like halfway between potato/corn chip and bacon?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 2:03 PM

#

They have a pretty strong flavour

#

I like 'em

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 2:04 PM

#

apparently mcdo used to make their fries in beef tallow

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 2:05 PM

#

the best chips are cooked in animal fat, yeah

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 2:09 PM

#

You can't taste them over here :/

covert scaffold Jul 22, 2019, 2:13 PM

#

can someone help me upload to pypi? it says it submitted, but it doesnt appear on pypi and when you attempt to download it it says ERROR: Command "python setup.py egg_info" failed with error code 1 in C:\Users\samue\AppData\Local\Temp\pip-req-build-3xnotrqn\

#

i dont understand pypi lmao

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 2:18 PM

#

You should read this, https://packaging.python.org/

Python Packaging User Guide — Python Packaging User Guide

The Python Packaging User Guide (PyPUG) is a collection of tutorials and guides for packaging Python software.

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 2:57 PM

#

Trying to get mod in a discord server that I have 30k messages in and the mods not doing their jobs isn't going well

#

Oh well, I tried

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 2:58 PM

#

rust server?

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 2:58 PM

#

Dude it'd be awesome if I had 30k messages in a rust server

#

Let's just say it was a gaming community I used to be active in last year

#

Oh wow I am coming up on that server's message count; almost 30k here

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 2:59 PM

#

ah yeah Fortnite server, say no more

tame terrace Jul 22, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

@vestal briar yeah and 25K of those are in off-topic

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

:)

tame terrace Jul 22, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

I spit on your 30K. sincerely, 170K.

twilit marlin Jul 22, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

but offtopic is more fun

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 3:13 PM

#

Dayum

#

I am half technical half random in offtopic

twilit marlin Jul 22, 2019, 3:14 PM

#

i don't like helping and there's stackoverflow for help myself

#

oh
that's smol amount

📎 unknown.png

#

like, even more smol than my dog is

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 3:17 PM

#

I just realised I can't actually get the full count

📎 Screenshot_20190722_161718_com.discord.png

#

Would have to be an admin at least, lol

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

Does it not reconnect your old messages?

#

Oh right that

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

Staff channels

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 3:19 PM

#

One sec

#

Fuck me, dude

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

Haha

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

Ayy

#

Thanks hem

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

Sweet zombie jesus that's a lot

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

I always did have a big mouth

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

I'm only at 69k

wet steppe Jul 22, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

69

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 3:20 PM

#

nice

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

Yeah yeah hur hur

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 3:21 PM

#

I guess I'll reach 220k soonish

#

I should celebrate with pizza

timid latch Jul 22, 2019, 3:22 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 3:23 PM

#

Where was that one

timid latch Jul 22, 2019, 3:24 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

https://discordapp.com/channels/267624335836053506/303906556754395136/358961505204568084

#

is this the old bot?

📎 unknown.png

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 3:27 PM

#

It is yeah

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 3:36 PM

#

I'm almost completely moved over to Bitwarden

#

I'm liking its simplicity so far

#

I've got only a couple gripes but honestly, they're minor

tired osprey Jul 22, 2019, 3:36 PM

#

PANIC

#

im getting 500 on github

#

PANIC

#

aaaaaaaaah

#

📎 unknown.png

sonic night Jul 22, 2019, 3:44 PM

#

ASpanickawaii

tired osprey Jul 22, 2019, 3:51 PM

#

exactly @sonic night

sonic night Jul 22, 2019, 3:54 PM

#

lately i am getting a lot of erros from github too

tired osprey Jul 22, 2019, 3:56 PM

#

luckily we got doc.rs which hosts the source as well

#

yay

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:00 PM

#

Glad you're liking it @plucky ridge

#

Anything I can help with?

robust sierra Jul 22, 2019, 4:02 PM

#

@tired osprey same

#

i cant push :(

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 4:03 PM

#

Nah it's just a preference thing.

#

Dashlane would list the accounts in a little drop down rather than BitWarden taking you to the list of them on a different page or something. I'm already more or less used to it, honestly

#

Just one of those growing pains things

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 4:04 PM

#

GitHub down, thanks ~~obama~~ microsoft.

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 4:04 PM

#

ObamaSoft

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 4:04 PM

#

haha

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 4:04 PM

#

I miss that man

#

I feel like he'd give good hugs

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:05 PM

#

29k

#

Also why are all these pacafistic extremism websites so modernly deasigned

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 4:05 PM

#

pacafistic extremism?

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:06 PM

#

Does every single one have a fucking professinal webdev

#

Like morman and westboro

#

📎 unknown.png

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 4:06 PM

#

PR is important for churches like that

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:06 PM

#

Yeah

#

But who would design a website for them if they are against their belifs?

#

Or do they do it for 2x the rate

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

Do you screen your clients on their religion?

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

I mean

#

If you where designing a website for nazis

#

You wouldn't accept

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

Do you think they don't have a member that's a webdev?

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:07 PM

#

Eh

#

How large are these orgs?

#

70 for the image above

#

I doubt they have a webdev

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 4:08 PM

#

Religious conservatism is also pretty big in the States, so I have no doubt that they'll be able to find companies taking their projects

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:09 PM

#

Yeah

#

Someone will do it somewhere

#

I don't think I would really accept an antisemetic client in my life

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:10 PM

#

Wouldn't you be antisemetic by not taking it though, technically?

#

Legally I don't think you could refuse

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:10 PM

#

That's like saying you are being racist by disregarding racism

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:10 PM

#

No it's not?

#

They're an actual registered church

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:11 PM

#

Forgot proper words

#

Oh free speech and such in america then?

#

I feel you could deny whoever you wanted because of free speech though?

#

Woo ethics

solid pollen Jul 22, 2019, 4:14 PM

#

There is a "major outage" but now github is back.. WHY ?! 😄

📎 unknown.png

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:14 PM

#

Haha

#

Huh

#

Americas free speech is fucked up

#

Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination by privately owned places of public accommodation on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. Places of “public accommodation” include hotels, restaurants, theaters, banks, health clubs and stores. Nonprofit organizations such as churches are generally exempt from the law.```

#

So you have to accept but you can openly protest against them as a way for them to fire you?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:15 PM

#

It's tricky

#

Businesses in America have human rights

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:16 PM

#

Yeah

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:16 PM

#

So your business can be Christian for example

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:16 PM

#

I just like uk's system more

#

Do something without any common sense and you'll be punished >:D

#

Let's see if the uk's law is the same on that front

#

So only becuase they are a registered church they are a protected group?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:20 PM

#

More or less.

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:20 PM

#

Intresting

#

The religion of Owez

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:22 PM

#

You need followers to register a religion unfortunately

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:22 PM

#

Ok kekistan

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:23 PM

#

Haha, this again

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:23 PM

#

16-20k on that ballot thing

#

It was either that or the star wars one

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 4:23 PM

#

I wonder how sargon has been faring after all the fish and milkshakes

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 4:23 PM

#

Where do I know this name

#

Oh some political 4chan thing?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 5:02 PM

#

how do you not know sargon but know kekistan

#

haha

vestal briar Jul 22, 2019, 5:51 PM

#

It was all over the news for like 1 day

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:09 PM

#

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/07/22/raspberry_pi_4_too_hot_to_handle/

Too hot to handle? Raspberry Pi 4 fans left wondering if kit shoul...

Plucky mini-comp idling at concerning temperatures

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:10 PM

#

Uhhhhhhh

#

Does that CPU really not have ANY kind of heat dispersion on it?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:10 PM

#

nope.

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:10 PM

#

I would have expected at least some little heatsink spikes or something

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:10 PM

#



The Raspberry Pi 4 Model B uses the same heat-spreading technology but due to the much more powerful CPU cores is capable of higher peak power consumption than a Model 3B+. Under a continuously heavy processor workload, the Model 4B is more likely to throttle than a Model 3B+.

You can add a heatsink if you wish, and this may prevent thermal throttling by keeping the chips below the throttling temperature.

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that's in the FAQ

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:10 PM

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That's

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Fucking stupid

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:11 PM

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Software engineer Martin Rowan has looked in detail at Pi 4 temperatures and concluded that it is "too hot to use enclosed". One of his complaints is that the official case "remains a fan-less design. Sadly this doesn't work out well with the increased thermal load." According to his measurements: "Compared to the Pi 3, the new Raspberry Pi 4 is running 80 per cent hotter and more than 100 per cent hotter when the new 4K display support is enabled."

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:11 PM

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That feels like a HUGE design oversight

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:12 PM

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My pi 3B+ and 2B both have heatsinks

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the kits and cases I got came with them

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so they were recommended even for those too

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this is the status of my 3B+

📎 unknown.png

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so if the 4 is 80-100% hotter..

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:13 PM

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Makes me wonder if other kits are still giving heat sinks with them or if it's just the bare boards that are causing issues

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Because if it's still an issue even with a minor heatsink...

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:14 PM

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some people are actually saying that heatsinks aren't helping

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and they've had to get fans

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:14 PM

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Wow

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I'm really at a loss for words

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:14 PM

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it's quite the thing

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:15 PM

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80% hotter? In which scale?

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:15 PM

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I would assume C

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That's probably not what you're asking though

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And I'm a derp

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:16 PM

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I'm not sure what the scale would change

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but yes, it looks like celscius

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:16 PM

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That's a terrible scale to use percentage difference on, since it has an arbitrary zero point

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:16 PM

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no it doesn't

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:16 PM

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Yes it does

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:16 PM

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C?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:16 PM

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it has a very well defined zero point

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what are you talking about

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:17 PM

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That's not what I mean by arbitrary zero point, though

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:17 PM

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I'm confused

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:17 PM

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The lower defining point, 0 °F, was established as the freezing temperature of a solution of brine made from equal parts of ice, water and salt (ammonium chloride)

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that seems a lot more arbitrary and a lot less useful

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:17 PM

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Yes, I know that

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And that's not what I mean

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:17 PM

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then what do you mean

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haha

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:18 PM

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What I mean is that 0 degrees celsius does not mean absence of heath, so saying 20 degrees celcius is twice as warm as 10 degrees celsius doesn't really mean anything useful

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:18 PM

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well I don't think anyone is really talking about this in terms of kelvin

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:18 PM

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True, they aren't giving a baseline temp of what the highest the previous generation was giving

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:18 PM

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scientific measurements like that are next to useless in daily life

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:18 PM

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There are alternative zero points in the total scale of heath that are defendable as well, so the zero point is arbitrary

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:19 PM

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I see what you mean now, Ves

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:19 PM

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Yes, but is makes talkign about a 80% increase pretty useless

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:19 PM

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but the zero point doesn't matter at all

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it's not even close to relevant

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because we're talking about relative temperatures in the first place

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:19 PM

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Yes

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:19 PM

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Which kind of proves his point

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:19 PM

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Yes

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This is one of the first topics you cover in any statistics class

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:20 PM

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something else that isn't really very useful for daily situations

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I still don't really see how this changes anything

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the 3B+ is 27 degrees over ambient when enclosed in the case

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:20 PM

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It means that saying it's 80% hotter doesn't really make sense

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:21 PM

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the pi 4 in 4K mode is 55 degrees over

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that's just over 100%

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:21 PM

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Does it list those in the article

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:21 PM

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How much hotter is 20 degrees celsius than -5 degrees celsius?

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In a percentage?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:21 PM

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500%?

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400%? I dunno man

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I don't get your point

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we don't care about scientific references

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we care about how much closer to throttling temperature it is

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:22 PM

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I do

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:22 PM

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Right, but do we have any baselines on what temperatures cause what throttling?

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:22 PM

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Since 80% hotter is a pretty arbitrary statement to make

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:22 PM

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yes we do

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:22 PM

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And what an 80% increase would or wouldn't do?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:22 PM

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80C brings CPU throttling, 85 brings GPU throttling

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and using Celsius is far better than literally any other unit, because it's a unit everyone understands - or almost everyone, anyway

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 6:23 PM

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it'd be nice if it provided some sort of clip for attaching a heatsink

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:23 PM

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that would be nice, yeah

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right now you have to adhere them

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:24 PM

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It's not a matter of the unit, but the actual range and scale, at least I think that's what Ves is talking about

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 6:24 PM

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as it is i assume you have to use thermal epoxy, which means you have to make a permanent choice of what kind of cooling solution

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:24 PM

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but the range and scale is already defined

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we're using celsius

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:24 PM

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Dude, that's not

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:24 PM

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Sure, I was just talking about that using percentages on a celsius scale is stupid

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:24 PM

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Minimum running temp, max running themp

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 6:24 PM

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what is the minimum running temperature anyway?

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could you run it in the antarctic

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:25 PM

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Just something I noticed about the article, I don't really care about the RPi4 anyway

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:25 PM

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the tests were about leaving the pi idling after booting to a desktop session

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so I'm not sure about theoretical minimum temp

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:25 PM

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So the percentage does tell us strictly the difference in C itself

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However does that directly scale to performance

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Or is it just a sudden spike in performance at a certain temp

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I think that's the point he was making. There's a disconnect between the two data points

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Or rather, not the data points, but at what a percentage of one means for the other

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:26 PM

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but that's not the point

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:27 PM

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No, I was just making the point that using a ratio comparison on a scale that has an arbitrary zero point is meaningless

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:27 PM

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What makes it arbitrary then

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:27 PM

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there is no arbitrary zero point

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I still don't get what you mean by that

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:27 PM

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I think that's what I'm missing

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:27 PM

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I think he's asking whether the percentage is referring to 0 degrees or absolute zero

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but in asking the question, the answer should be obvious

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:27 PM

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That the zero point of celsius is just some kind of convention, just like that of Fahrenheit; it's not a "natural" zero point in the scale of temperature that Kelvin has

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:28 PM

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nobody thinks about temperature in terms of absolute zero on a day to day basis

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it's a pretty safe assumption that the zero point is 0C

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:28 PM

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No, but that doesn't make it an absolute zero point

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:28 PM

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No but it does make it mathematically adjustable based on that absolute 0 point

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That's literally what Kelvin is

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:28 PM

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but I don't see how that's relevant at all

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I mean

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:28 PM

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Just like saying that 20 degrees celsius is twice as hot as 10 degrees celsius is just wrong

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It's not

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Like I said, I just noticed that from the article

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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but it isn't wrong

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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And I remarked on it

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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it's wrong scientifically

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it's not wrong mathematically

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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It is, since it's not 80% more hot

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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Does the heat throttling have more to do with math or science

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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clearly the zero point should be 20 degrees celsius

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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I'm more thinking it's the science

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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It's logically wrong, there's not 80% more heath there

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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40 degrees is twice as hot as 30 degrees

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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I don't think you're listening to the point I'm making

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haha

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 6:29 PM

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20 degrees is neutral

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0 degrees is twice as cold as 10 degrees

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 PM

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Oof, I was thinking that of you, but anyway

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 PM

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what I'm trying to say is

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 PM

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We get your point

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We're just also trying to clarify his

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 PM

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you don't go to the freezer and wait for your ice to reach 273.15 kelvin

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 PM

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Your = gdude, his = Ves

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 PM

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Which doesn't matter if you're talking about ratios

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:30 PM

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still typing

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hold your horses

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:31 PM

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Neigh

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:31 PM

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using a percentage based on the physical amount of heat present in scientific terms is basically useless

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because nobody will have a clue what you mean

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we're not talking about research done for physicists or chemists here

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:31 PM

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So we instead use what are known as "feel good numbers" that make the readers think they know what they're talking about

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:31 PM

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we're talking about an analysis for ordinary people

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:31 PM

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Which doesn't mean that using ratios for an arbitrary scale is suddenly right

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That's like saying 20 degrees celsius outside is twice as hot as 10 degrees celsius outside

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Which is bonkers

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:32 PM

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I have to go with Ves on this, there's always a way to dumb it down to make it understandable.

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:32 PM

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except that is how most people would understand it

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20 = 10 * 2

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:32 PM

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I'd rather know the real impact on my machine's long term health

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:32 PM

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Yeah, 20/10 = 2

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20/-5 = -4

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So 20 degrees is -4 times as hot as -5

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:33 PM

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no, it's 5 times as hot

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:33 PM

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Oh?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:33 PM

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in that vein

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:33 PM

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And 4 degrees versus 20 then?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:33 PM

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it's a difference of 25 degrees, so

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:33 PM

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So, 20 degrees is both 4 times as hot as 5 degrees and as -5 degrees?

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hmm

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:33 PM

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I'm not claiming this is scientifically accurate

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:33 PM

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No, it's bonkers

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:33 PM

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Okay so 25/0 oh shit

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:34 PM

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to say that I am would be a strawman

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but it's how people, real people who aren't scientists and aren't interested in the nuts and bolts of it, would understand it

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:34 PM

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But it's wrong and doesn't actually tell the person anything useful

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:34 PM

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well, no, it does

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:34 PM

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Okay

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It gets hotter

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Cheers

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But what does that mean

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:34 PM

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if I say A is 25 degrees and B is 100% hotter

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:34 PM

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Does it mean it'll just throttle? Destroy my system?

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 6:34 PM

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I still say 20 is the logical zero point - it's not hot and not cold

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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then B is 50 degrees

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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40 twice as hot as 30, 0 twice as cold as 10

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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Am I being understood or...

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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Well, you could say that, gdude, but there are other ways of interpreting this

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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scientifically it might not be a useful ratio or percentage

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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So, it's just a vague statement

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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Because I GET what's being said by you

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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but it is how normal people think of it

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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If you like such a thing, go ahead

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But, to me, it doesn't make much sense

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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dude, we have to live in this world with other people

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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That

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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Yeah, that's why we have this thing called education

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:35 PM

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Is literally not the point that was being made

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Alright, I give, you win another argument by being a brick wall

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:36 PM

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you can't yell at a passerby for going "well it was 10 degrees yesterday and it's 20 today so it's twice as hot"

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:36 PM

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I'm done

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:36 PM

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I know, but I can do a shouting match

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:36 PM

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hem I haven't even addressed you yet

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haha

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you guys are making separate arguments

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I can't do both at once

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the performance question is an easy one

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the pi has two throttling boundaries

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:37 PM

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Hmm, I'm still baffled, what's 4 times as cold as 20 degrees celsius?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:37 PM

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the first one is the 80-85C range, and the other one is > 85C

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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Okay, then why don't they just say that then the percentages

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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And there we have the point

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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the percentages are actually in the article

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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"This one reaches that threshold under X load"

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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as well as the throttling limits

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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And that's what I was remarking about

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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and they're also in the analysis

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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They shouldn't have used percentages in a tech article

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For a celsius temperate scale

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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what they meant is going to be obvious to 90% of people

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:38 PM

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Yeah it really should just be what it takes to reach that threshold compared to the other

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Well shit, they can make it 100% by saying "this one gets hotter"

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:39 PM

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yeah, but they needed to provide an idea of "how much hotter"

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:39 PM

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I just don't feel like it's a good way of conveying information

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:39 PM

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Hey, can we not just give, you know, the two temperatures?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:39 PM

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and they do

sinful copper Jul 22, 2019, 6:39 PM

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you can't yell at a passerby for going "well it was 10 degrees yesterday and it's 20 today so it's twice as hot" the hell i can't, I absolutely will yell at anyone who says that

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:40 PM

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Which

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Fair

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:40 PM

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that's silly

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:40 PM

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I could see you doing it

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:40 PM

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it's silly because you knew what they meant

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:40 PM

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Ah, and then put it in perspective, you know, interpret what the difference means instead of providing a percentage that doesn't mean anything

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Okay, now I'm done

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This was nice

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:40 PM

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you mean.. like they did?

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have either of you read the articles by the way?

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:41 PM

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Yes.

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:41 PM

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Yes, I did now

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:41 PM

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I'm salty about not enough minutia

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:41 PM

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I just don't like sloppy reporting

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:41 PM

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wait, hold on

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it took you this long to read the.. okay then

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:41 PM

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Yes because we spent the rest of the time yelling

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Obvs

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:41 PM

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did you read this one as well? https://www.martinrowan.co.uk/2019/06/raspberry-pi-4-hot-new-release-too-hot-to-use-enclosed/

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it was linked in the TR article

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:42 PM

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Nah, I'm not interested in the RPi4 enough

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I care more for journalists being sloppy in tech reporting

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:42 PM

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this article is the crux of your argument, though

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:42 PM

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This is what happens when a statistician gets triggered

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No, that's bullshit though

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You can't say that one article is fine only because another one does the work for it

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:43 PM

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when did I say that

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:43 PM

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I was just remarking on the percentage statistics on the celsius scale

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:43 PM

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It's just silly

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:43 PM

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I mean, I accepted your argument that it's scientifically useless

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:43 PM

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I don't think reading an additional article somehow makes that make sense

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:43 PM

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See

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If they had just not made a product that possibly catches fire

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:43 PM

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Well, tech journalists that report on technical tests of products can at least do it right

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:44 PM

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We wouldn't be here right now

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:44 PM

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haha, hem

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well they're tech journalists, this isn't a scientific paper

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I wouldn't expect that

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it seems more likely that they'd just do what most people do

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:45 PM

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Did they not like

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Benchmark it

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Sorry, still dumbfounded

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:45 PM

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If you're a tech journalist, you should at least know this

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:45 PM

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you've gotta wonder, yeah

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:45 PM

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I mean, this is statistics 101

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Maybe even pre-101

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:45 PM

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Ves, even if I was writing it, and even if I agreed fully with your point and knew this

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I would still not write the article like that

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:46 PM

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All it would take would be to not add a percentage, though

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:46 PM

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the percentage they gave is useless to a scientist or statistitian

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it's useful for everyone else

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that's all there is really

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:46 PM

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Honestly I'd just give the load and the temp

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Just give the benchmarks

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Then show the scorch marks the 4b made on the table

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:47 PM

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haha

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:47 PM

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"Here's the test where I'm just shooting compressed air on it the whole time

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Note how it's still on fire"

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:47 PM

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I think the argument ves made makes sense if you're thinking statistically or scientifically

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I just don't think it's a useful argument

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and tbh I dunno how people work where you are, I'm assuming at least one of you is in the US

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:48 PM

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I am

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:48 PM

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but over here, when you give a percentage of a positive temp, people assume you mean relative to 0c

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if you have a negative and a positive temp, nobody is using percentages

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that's just the instinctive understanding of people at large

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:48 PM

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US? Nah

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The Netherlands

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:48 PM

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yeah, you're in.. yeah

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I figured you were in europe somewhere

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:49 PM

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(Love my Dutchie friends)

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:49 PM

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Anyway, there's no use in using those percentages there since, a) it's wrong to use them like that there and b) there are plenty of other ways to get the point across that are correct

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:49 PM

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but the thing is though

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it doesn't matter if it's wrong to use them like that

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:49 PM

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So, if you have any sort of education in tech, physics, maths, or statistics, you just do it right

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It does matter

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:50 PM

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it only matters from a scientific perspective

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everyone else will understand what was meant instinctively

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Charts

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:50 PM

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It matters from an educational perspective as well.

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:50 PM

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Charts for days

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:50 PM

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There's no harm in using correct measures if you're writing an article on technology and/or science

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:50 PM

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unless nobody will understand it

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what is the actual percentage relative to absolute zero, by the way?

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:51 PM

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To just condone sloppy journalism "because everyone does it", I find that awful

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:51 PM

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that's not what I said

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:51 PM

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That's what I say

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:51 PM

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wut

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:51 PM

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It's sloppy reporting on a tech topic

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That's what I've been saying all along

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:51 PM

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but then your comment just now makes no sense

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:51 PM

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And that's why I take a stance against it

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Which comment?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:51 PM

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To just condone sloppy journalism "because everyone does it", I find that awful

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you're implying that that was my point

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it wasn't my point

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:52 PM

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I wasn't arguing against you in that line, I was explaining why I take an issue with that type of reporting

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:52 PM

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To just condone sloppy journalism

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who or what even were you arguing against then

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._.

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:52 PM

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God

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:53 PM

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Well, I was arguing against the article using percentages for a celsius scale

plucky ridge Jul 22, 2019, 6:53 PM

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I'm angry that god could let this happen

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:53 PM

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What did you think I was arguing against?

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:53 PM

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me

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:53 PM

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Well, yes, because you started defending that sloppy journalism

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:53 PM

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well yes, but not using that point

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that's why I don't understand why you made the comment lol

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:54 PM

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No, you've got this backwards

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I made a comment about that article

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Then you started arguing with me about it

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My outset was never to prove you wrong

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But to state that I did not like the sloppy reporting in that article

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That you then did not understand at first why percentages and ratios applied to arbitrary scales are wrong is something that was triggered by that

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But I can't argue against you if my comment opens the conversation about this specific topic

sand goblet Jul 22, 2019, 6:55 PM

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I don't think that's how conversation works, but alright

oak tangle Jul 22, 2019, 6:56 PM

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Wow