#Nahiri the Lithomancer +2 & ETB checks.

20 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

restive phoenix
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Unsure if this is as-intended or not. [[Nahiri, the Lithomancer]] 's +2 ability creates a 1/1 token, then allows you to attach an equipment to it. For the purposes of "enters the battlefield" triggers, is the equipment already on the token, or not?

If it's not, should [[Mentor of the Meek]] trigger if the equipment being attached by her +2 ability subsequently takes the token's power above 2? Mentor of the Meek ruling: "Apply power bonuses from counters the creature enters the battlefield with and continuous effects such as that of Valiant Knight before checking to see if Mentor of the Meek's ability will trigger." I can see that ruling being extended to equipment. And if Nahiri's ability were worded "+2: You may choose an equipment you control. Create a 1/1 soldier token, optionally with that equipment attached to it", it would be clear that the equipment's effect was in place from the start.

However, I tested a similar set of triggers that should fire if Mentor of the Meek doesn't: [[Captain's Hook]] and [[Coercive Recruiter]], again using Nahiri's +2 ability. The soldier token being created and having the hook attached to it did not trigger the recruiter's ability. So in this instance, the equipment's effects are not counted when checking to see if the creature entering the battlefield is a Pirate.

Low priority for sure, but figured I should at least document this. It's entirely possible that both of these interactions could be "correct" based on contradictory rulings, I could be missing something, and it's also in "This has never come up before, why would you ever have those cards in the same deck?" territory with the second one. But I feel like one of these has to be an edge case that the card scripts don't cover, right?

cloud cargoBOT
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https://scryfall.com/card/c14/10/nahiri-the-lithomancer

Nahiri, the Lithomancer <:mana3:292901508771610624><:manaw:1007102126813610074><:manaw:1007102126813610074>

Legendary Planeswalker — Nahiri
+2: Create a 1/1 white Kor Soldier creature token. You may attach an Equipment you control to it.
−2: You may put an Equipment card from your hand or graveyard onto the battlefield.
−10: Create a colorless Equipment artifact token named Stoneforged Blade. It has indestructible, "Equipped creature gets +5/+5 and has double strike," and equip mana0.
Nahiri, the Lithomancer can be your commander.
Loyalty: 3

stiff rampart
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the attaching always happens after ETB

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only after the trigger event happened would the power be raised or the type change

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so yes, the second case seems wrong

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I think we've had an issue for that in the old repository

pine saddle
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no i'm pretty sure Nahiri + Captain's Hook + Recuiter doesn't work because the token doesn't enter as a Pirate

stiff rampart
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ugh yea I meant it like that

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that part seems to work

pine saddle
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Nahiri should trigger Mentor

stiff rampart
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the problem is because this happens during resolving the equipment can raise the power before Valid check and make it fail

pine saddle
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between "Create Token" and "Attach Equipment" the Trigger should be collected

stiff rampart
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Hmn yea I'll check

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trigger is collected
but even so on unfreezeStack it will still perform canRunTrigger->performTest on the now pumped token :/

pine saddle
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its probably that Mentor shouldn't check for the Power again, it isn't a Interfering If clause, so it probably shouldn't check again

stiff rampart
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yea but NoResolvingCheck$ doesn't help here as the trigger doesn't even go on the stack

restive phoenix
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Hah, looks like I found you guys a "fun" one. Again, this is probably super low priority, but I know good and well that having a fresh problem to dive in to is hard to resist sometimes.