EPISODE 2

[sand thicket]

It’s literally clarified in the show each chapter has different aspects

[normal veldt]

Does your phone have problems with screenshooting as well?

[sand thicket]

Like Yosemite elder was not with the pseudo religious stuff

[coarse grove]

Or his brotherhood is messy. Lmao

[sand thicket]

It’s not messy but there are some gaps

[cold jetty]

You can see the initiate rank on the squire uniform.

[coarse grove]

He's stationed on their trainee base it looks like. Interesting.

[tired yew]

The use of unarmored infantry is either a new application of quintus' chapter or a shift in brotherhood doctrine at large

[sand thicket]

What type of knight rank is Maximus if he has authority over other knights and he has a different convert jacket

[sand thicket]

So I’m guessing you are only a squire if you are directly under a knight

[tired yew]

Probably head knight given him being in the inner circle of the chapter

[sand thicket]

Otherwise you are just an initiate

[normal veldt]

It's almost like the pseudo-religious stuff was added by some other chapters to justify their sexism (& some other random bs)

[coarse grove]

Yeah

[tired yew]

Squires are personal trainees of knights, but they don't have enough knights for all initiates to have the opportunity

[sand thicket]

Nah the lost hills brotherhood was pseudo religious

[coarse grove]

Yosemite probably is more survival-esque given the location. Probably value strenght, especially because Yosemite is known for Yao Gauis.

[normal veldt]

Were they sexist?

[tired yew]

The lost hills brotherhood was zealous but not really religious the way the show brotherhood is

[coarse grove]

The clerics are described as overzealous.

[sand thicket]

How are the Knights of San Fernando sexist

[normal veldt]

What's up with the Grand Canyon chapter and their "justified" robo-fetish

[tired yew]

So which ones are which, like sexist/technophile/materialist

[coarse grove]

Dunno, I hope they die first lol

[scenic bobcat]

Wonder which chapters airship is the first to go down as shown in the trailers

[sand thicket]

Probably License plate head

Grand Canyon chapter

[tired yew]

Betting quintus

[lofty needle]

na have you seen fisto? understandable

[sand thicket]

Officers commanding initiates and squires

[cold jetty]

Coronado is the sexist one and the Grand Canyon had the technophile

[coarse grove]

Yosemite has the female Elder, shes the one who pulled out the knife, so materialist. Maybe?
Grand Canyon is the technophile.
Coronado is the sexiest one.

and then Quintus is Quintus.

[tired yew]

This just supports the idea that the quintus brotherhood has adapted a new rank system

[normal veldt]

I meant the Grand Canyon & Coronado elders were acting sexist, like they taunted the Yosemite elder by saying "women should not be allowed to sit at the table when the men are talking" or something like that

[tired yew]

So Coronado would be Yellowstone?

[scenic bobcat]

Yozemite's chapter seems to be the only one to not be completely ass so far

[coarse grove]

Right, my point was specifically no one above Knights in terms of armor ranking and structure. There is no paladins, I would be SUPER surprised if Bethesda cut them out because they're kind of iconic. I'm sure there are officers present, but none in PA.

[sand thicket]

Yeah I know I’m trying to decide this new ranking system

[tired yew]

Yosemite is sitting on the ancestral birthplace of the brotherhood so that fits

[sand thicket]

It’s obviously initiates then squires

[tired yew]

It could very well just follow the traditional rank system with different names and less authority

[tired yew]

Not necessarily, most initiates don't seem to become squires

[normal veldt]

Coronado is a place in California?

[lofty needle]

i think the paladins are absent on purpose so that when they introduced xander his character would have more authority within this brotherhood (even tho he isnt a part of these chapters)

[tired yew]

I was told one was based out of Yellowstone

[sand thicket]

Yeah I know but the squires have authority over initiates

[cold jetty]

Coronado California has a naval base

[scenic bobcat]

Wonder which chapters will survive the civil war

[sand thicket]

Squires have authority over aspirants we see this when Max said you are dismissed aspirant

And initiates are actually called “aspirants” in this chapter

[scenic bobcat]

I'd imagine the weaker chapters such as the grand canyon will proably be wiped while the commonwealth survives

[coarse grove]

That could be it.

[ember swallow]

east coast the rest will die and the memebers will desert the chapers to the east coast

[scenic bobcat]

Probably

[tired yew]

Yeah because they're the first step on the knight progression, it just isn't necessarily guaranteed for an aspirant to go down that line

[sand thicket]

This chapter has initiates aspirants and squires squires are above all of them

[coarse grove]

The Yosemite grounds are probably deadly, so I imagine they're more survivalist than anything else given the terrain and territory.

[tired yew]

The grand canyon chapter sounds pretty interesting, so do the Yosemites

[sand thicket]

I don’t know who is above who aspirants or initiates

[coarse grove]

Any grounds known for Yao Gaui breeding is probably dangerous af.

[coarse grove]

The officers it looks like, your petty officer guy is stationed at the trainee base.

[tired yew]

Presumably initiates would be above aspirants if they use both but they might not

Aspirants as in aspiring initiates as in initiated

[cold jetty]

Don’t know but two chapters seem to be working with each other. On the right

[coarse grove]

Hahah, i will laugh if they all turned on Quintus.

[scenic bobcat]

Yeah in the trailer you can see the 2 on the right firing at the one on the left

[sand thicket]

These guys are most likely head scribes

[scenic bobcat]

I'd imagine the left would be the commonwealth chapter

[coarse grove]

They look like Clerics.

[tired yew]

That guy is a cleric

He's the one who interrogates Maxson which is cleric business

[coarse grove]

Commonwealth doesn't have their airship here.

[lofty needle]

speaking of this scene, why are women in quintus' chapter only seen in this one scene and then never again

[tired yew]

I assume we haven't got names for 3 of them

[coarse grove]

no clue!

[coarse grove]

We have not, not yet.

[scenic bobcat]

Then why would 1 chapter be fighting multiple other chapters if it isn't the commonwealth chapter?

[sand thicket]

Idk

[normal veldt]

Yo, I almost thought that blud is Andrew Tate lol thankfully not

[coarse grove]

There's only 4 Chapters present, 4 airships.

[tired yew]

Maybe there's a disproportionately high number of female knights and it just gets scrambled beyond recognition by the audio box

[sand thicket]

No hes not

Quintus and Knight Titus interrogate him

[tired yew]

Huh. Must've been mistaken then

[weary sorrel]

Maybe there’ll be trouble in paradise between the various rebel chapters which sparks this airship fight?

[coarse grove]

huh

[torpid cargo]

Another grenade incident but max ain’t there this time.

[sand thicket]

I’m really trying to decode this ranking system help me out guys

[tired yew]

The division between clerics and scribes seems to be fairly apocryphal from what we've seen/heard, like it could be a bit of an internal turf war

[scenic bobcat]

Each chapter having their own airship again is getting confusing as pre lyons all the airships had been destroyed one way or another & the last time we saw the brotherhood with an airship preshow was with the prydwen, but now more chapters have them again without any real explanation on how each chapter was able to re-build their own prydwen quality airships

[scenic wolf]

Maybe you're thinking of the jet gun holotape

[torpid cargo]

Maxson sent them reinforcements for some reason, despite them all seemingly hating his guts. That’s the part I’m confused about.

[sand thicket]

Clerics

[tired yew]

Most likely the east coast brotherhood provided them the resources/technical needs to assemble them

[weary sorrel]

Or those two doofuses decide to upgrade from plasma grenades to mini-nukes, but one fumbles it so badly the mini-nuke goes off at exactly the worst possible spot for one airship. Preferably Quintus’d take a second sun to the face, but beggars can’t be choosers.

[sand thicket]

Your right

These guys are clerics not scribes

[scenic bobcat]

Captin Kells states in f04 that all previous airships the brotherhood had no longer existed either due to being destroyed or scraped & that the pyrdwen at the time of it's creation was the only airship the brotherhood as a whole had with it being a step up from all prior iterations

[coarse grove]

We don't know if they're Prydwen quality, we're just assuming.
But it's safe to say the schematics to make an airship were shared to other Chapters. So if chapters had the resources, they can make their own - or it's possible Maxson provided them, it's unclear how each chapter got their own specific airship.

It's also STILL EPISODE 2 we don't have the answers yet.

[sand thicket]

But they do stuff that scribes do which is wierd

[tired yew]

That makes sense

[coarse grove]

Yeah i was gonna say, the outfit they're wearing is the Cleric outfit

[tired yew]

I think the two guys they sent down to bring area 51 online were scribes

[scenic bobcat]

Probably, in season 1 the order to capture the enclave scientest was stated to have come from the high clerics of the commonwealth chapter

[tired yew]

The scribes seem to be the practical side of the coin whereas the clerics seem to be responsible for the overall bureaucracy

[sand thicket]

Then these guys are scribes/field scribes

Officers

[coarse grove]

If it means at the time of it's creation, it implies they made more after as well. So it's possible Maxson at one point, shared them.

[cold jetty]

A bit more than one scene. Definitely more males tho

[tired yew]

Those jumpsuits are new

[sand thicket]

Lancers

[scenic bobcat]

I get the schematics part but it took years to collect & use the resources from adams airforce base, the enclave mobile base crawler & an aircraft carrier engine (or something along that lines) to be able to make the prydwen

[coarse grove]

I said it before, but he probably has a spy or someone informing the Commonwealth of what's going on, and again Maxson while he might not trust them - on principle, he won't just leave them to die. He'll do at least something.

[cold jetty]

They look better than the lancers in 4

[sand thicket]

Initiate—>aspirant—->squire confirmed

[normal veldt]

Maybe these "reinforcements" were also there to "supervise" them, if you catch my drift

[sand thicket]

Scribes are under officers command

[tired yew]

They seem to have a lot of lancers for a chapter with a few poorly maintained vertibirds

[cold jetty]

Initiate should be higher than Aspirants and squires

[sand thicket]

It’s not though

In this chapter

[scenic bobcat]

I do think he shared them but judging by how the airships look in the show they seem to be around prdywen quality, meaning with how long it takes to get the resources needed & actually build those airships each chapter would of only really just got their airships within the last few years

[tired yew]

Initiates and squires should be at equivalent positions on the progression chain I figure

[coarse grove]

Assuming what Proctor Quinlin says is true in Fallout 4, then it also means that Maxson has the entire East under his control, Pitt included. Which gives them the industry to make more. And it explains how they had the means of setting up so quickly, and how he bolstered both Boston and the Capital Wasteland so quickly.

[sand thicket]

Squires are under knights commands and can dismiss aspirants etc

[weary sorrel]

Hopefully going forward he’ll be a bit more choosy when deciding who to allocate the airships to once Quintus and friends end up like the Enclave in Liberty Prime’s path to the Purifier.

[tired yew]

The main issue is the reactor so there's a chance that the different zeppelins are slightly altered depending on what was available to each chapter

[sand thicket]

And initiates aspirants are people trying to become either squires or scribes

[coarse grove]

Probably, we still don't have the full story.

[normal veldt]

I wonder what happened to Ashur, he got executed?

[cold jetty]

Initiates fought at the observatory.

Squires are tied to a knight

[coarse grove]

That's why i said the Zepplins aren't Prydwen tier. Prydwen has a reactor, the others might not.

[tired yew]

Aspirants are trying to become squires but idk about initiates trying to become scribes

[sand thicket]

Scribes and squires are one in the same just different categories

[tired yew]

But they could also be better than the prydwen at the same time

[coarse grove]

His relevancy ending when he got the cure, tbh. At least, that's my assumption.

[sand thicket]

They have the same level of authority

[scenic bobcat]

Isn't it stated somewhere the airships need a reactor like that to actually carry all the stuff on board?

[sand thicket]

In this chapter

[coarse grove]

Sure, I don't disagree.

[tired yew]

Scribes and clerics are non-combatant roles and squires are knights in training

[scenic bobcat]

I get the prydwen had more then other chapters since it likely had more power armours & was carrying the remains of liberty prime but still

[sand thicket]

There not though

[coarse grove]

I'll double check.

[sand thicket]

There were people wearing this uniform at the battle of Griffith observatory

There’s such thing as field scribes

[torpid cargo]

Apparently the Prydwhen design is pre-war. Could have just was easily found some wrecks lying around.

[weary sorrel]

On top of that, one has to ask whether the West Coast is still worth keeping considerable military force stationed in for the Brotherhood; sure, it looks good to have chapters from Boston to Yosemite, but you keep running into the ‘mountains are high and the Emperor is far away’ effect.

[tired yew]

This is really really odd

[cold jetty]

Scribes weren’t at the observatory

They weren’t there

[sand thicket]

Field scribes see combat

[tired yew]

Perhaps scribes have just been xo opted into a general infantry role

[sand thicket]

Squires have more authority than aspirants

[scenic bobcat]

Yeah I don't like how they've made the airship design pre-war with how difficult f04 emphasises on getting the prydwen made & running was

[sand thicket]

But squires and scribes are on the same level

Just different roles

[tired yew]

Field scribes are specialists deployed as needed for fragile technical operations

[cold jetty]

They weren’t at the observatory tho.

[tired yew]

They can see combat but that's not really like, their actual job

[sand thicket]

They were

There were people wearing this uniform at the battle

Not just knights squires and officers were fighting

[cold jetty]

I don’t see anyone wearing that at the observatory

[sand thicket]

Dane

[cold jetty]

BRUH. She got sent there for punishment

[tired yew]

If dane is wearing it, that might not be a scribe specific outfit

[cold jetty]

No it is. He just got sent there for punishment

[tired yew]

Although perhaps they ended up training to become a scribe instead

[tired yew]

So he's just permanently out of the combatant force now

[cold jetty]

Yes that was the point of injuring himself.

[normal veldt]

Is BoS really operating like some Chinese empire with a central govt? Don't think so

The West is their heritage so there's no way for them to give up the whole region when there's a vacuum to fill (NCR is mostly gone-zo)

[sand thicket]

Idk

This is so confusing man

Only the show runners can tell us

[coarse grove]

It unfortunately doesn't matter, it's what the IP owners make it. Todd and Emil love the Eastern BoS, it's their love-child.

[sand thicket]

They making this shit so complex for no reason

[tired yew]

The western bos is a mess but we don't really have anything substantive about the state of the eastern bos (besides it being significantly more powerful/homogenous)

[coarse grove]

I've said this repeatedly. Todd and Emil want the East to be the new Heartland for the BoS.

That is 100% going to be the push, narratively.

[cold jetty]

How?

[sand thicket]

And I found a shot where we see others in the same uniform as Dane the scribe uniform at Griffith

[tired yew]

Do tell

[torpid cargo]

Seriously for real

[normal veldt]

I'm still convinced that he's a spy and the whole point about becoming a scribe instead of a squire is to stay close to the sussy Father Elijah knock-off

[tired yew]

If this benefits the NCR so be it lowkey

[sand thicket]

Another scribe in combat

[coarse grove]

It's going to, cause it'll free up territory in the West to make up for the territory the factions in the West, aside from the BoS, lost.

[ember swallow]

i hope the east coast comes out on top and crushes them all

[sand thicket]

So these are field scribes

[tired yew]

This guy is terrifyingly red

[sand thicket]

lol

Camera settings

[ember swallow]

Keanu reeves

[tired yew]

The presence of field scribes makes sense at Griffith given the whole "we must get the mcguffin" ordeal

[sand thicket]

Field scribes obviously see less combat than squires and knights

Most likely only get sent out if it involves a highly important technology artifact

[normal veldt]

I think the biggest mystery rn is what exactly happened to the Lost Hills chapter
Maxson's a direct descendant of the founder but his power ultimately stemmed from the West Coast elders that recognised his legitimacy

[cold jetty]

Okay I’m glad we’re all on the same page.

[coarse grove]

Scribe Haylen was in combat, while listed as non-combatant roles, you still end up in the field.

[tired yew]

The brotherhood also has a limited demand for field scribes so most aspirants probably also don't specialize into the scribe track either

So we've identified two specialist rank trees but not exactly what the rest of aspirants end up as

[tired yew]

Any logic indicates lost hills should be a smoking hole in the ground, if it isn't the Yosemite brotherhood is the only possible chapter which could explain its actual state

[coarse grove]

Magnus made a good point that it's possible that Maxson relocated them to the East and they reformed to create the Clerics in the Brotherhood. Especially because the zealotry described fits the Lost Hills zealousness they exhibited, and it makes sense. Genuinely. I'm not opposed to the idea.

and again it lines up with what I've been saying about Todd and Emil's goals with the Brotherhood. Moving the Lost Hills from West, to East, in a more stable/bolstered region makes perfect sense.

[lofty needle]

i really like how were exploring the ranks of the bos cause the showrunners definitely wouldve thought about this stuff when designing all the costumes but just never mentioned it in the show cause theres no point to (its like star wars which does the same thing: they design the costumes with ranks in mind (ignoring the square patches) but obviously these details dont really need saying for the actual show)

[tired yew]

Why Maxson would ever bother with creating a clerical division is a whole other question

[cold jetty]

I’m just glad clerics brought this look back

[coarse grove]

I asked this, that is more of the important question, but its not gonna get answered at all.

[tired yew]

Assuming they are genuinely the bureaucratic side of noncombatant roles they could've been created to accommodate the eastern brotherhood being increasingly centralized

[lofty needle]

one could argue clerics are reintroduced to stop a lyons situation occuring again

[normal veldt]

Sounds like the East BoS is really establishing some kinda country
So basically Bethesda have their own "New Commonwealth Republic" now?

[lofty needle]

or a midwest bos situation

[tired yew]

A civil war?

[coarse grove]

This was my thought process. Especially because Clerics are never seen in combat. We see scribes, but no Clerics. And the way they're positioned, they're much more of a bureaucratic rank with heavy authority.

[lofty needle]

na moreso just that the bos doesnt stray too far from its core tenants

[tired yew]

The Eastern BOS doesn't stray too far from its tenets it just has a largely different structure for enacting those tenets

[coarse grove]

No it's literally just becoming the new Heartland. The Brotherhood, at least Maxson, isn't interested in that type of stuff. He's more principled in terms of his goals, and he's hoisted & claimed to be a visionairy and it lines up pretty well.

The only genuine question is why the Clerics, but like I said - we're not gonna fully get that answer.

[lofty needle]

could be an insurance policy like a just in case after maxson dies the whole east coast just doesnt change up for some reason

[normal veldt]

I wonder what they plan to do with the Midwest BoS, just ignore and forget about them?

[cold jetty]

Absolutely

[coarse grove]

LOL

[lofty needle]

i think they will bring it up but just years and years from now like no time soon

cause bethesda do seem to entertain some parts of tactics

[tired yew]

The issue then is how quintus and co got set up in the west

[coarse grove]

Quintus probably got help from the East, but Quintus also says he's been in contact with other Chapters, I imagine they intermingle and support each other just not often.

[lofty needle]

like i think (conjecture) theyre probably gonna reycle something like vault 0 for their vault tech post war plotline

[coarse grove]

I imagine supporting each other, and mutual aid, relief, or men between Chapters is easier to get across than convincing other chapters to fight a civil war. So I don't think it's too far-fetched to assume they still do care enough to help each other out, if they desperately need it.

But we also know the outcome of at least these four, they turn on each other.

so it's hard to say.

[tired yew]

There are a few things that suggest there was historically a stronger period of cooperation than currently seen in the BOS

[coarse grove]

I wouldn't disagree with you.

[sand thicket]

Mods tell me why I got timed out so I don’t do
It again

[lofty needle]

i assume they originated just as any other western bos chapter but ncr expansion turned them into something really insignifcant then didnt the commonwealth in season 1 come over and deliver them a bunch of supplies, knights and an airsihp (basically turning them into a real chapter)

[tired yew]

The airships are the main one but the clerics and the mass distribution of T-60 in places it was never ever deployed are other indications the east coast was actively involved on the west

[scenic bobcat]

I lowky thought the airship in season 1 was the prydwen specfically doing that

[tired yew]

They were a weakened chapter but the deployment of eastern support wasn't borderline establishing a new chapter in itself

[coarse grove]

The prydwen did do that in Season 1, it just didn't STAY in the Mojave.

It left afterwards -

then Quintus uses his own.

[sand thicket]

I think I somewhat understand the ranking system now

Obviously initiates are at the bottom

Then you become an aspirant

[tired yew]

I think this should be the other way around but I digress

[cold jetty]

Bro

[scenic bobcat]

Is it actually shown or stated anywhere that the prydwen left since the last we see of it is at the observatory at the end of s1?

[sand thicket]

Why would initiates be ranked above aspirants

[coarse grove]

YES.

[sand thicket]

Initiates are new brotherhood members

[lofty needle]

its cause the airship quintus uses is now called the cassenoven

ive butchered that spelling

[tired yew]

Aspirants are aspiring to reach a certain role, initiates are, well, initiated into a certain role

[sand thicket]

Aspirants are people on road to become a lancer or scribe or a squire to a knight.

[coarse grove]

Casswennan or some shit.

[scenic bobcat]

Yeah I don't remember actually seeing/hearing anything about it actually leaving tho-

[coarse grove]

I forget.

[sand thicket]

Even in fallout 4 initiates are below aspirants

[tired yew]

We see aspirants in 4?

[cold jetty]

They are and the show changed that

[cold jetty]

Yes but they were on the field which goes against the aspirants role in the show

[tired yew]

Hrm

[lofty needle]

i actually have a question regarding the casswennan. that airship surely also came from the east right since this chapter literally didnt even have knights before season 1, so when did this airship get given to them?

like i get the prydwen came in dropped off a bunch of stuff but thats entirely seperate

[coarse grove]

Yes, it mostly likely came from the East. There is no clear timeline when the airships were exactly given.

But the Fact the East can mass produce these fuckers, they would need a certain level of industry.

[lofty needle]

okay cause the airship used to takeover filly and the observatory would be the casswennan so it would have to have been received before that

[coarse grove]

I feel like it's almost impossible otherwise.

[coarse grove]

yes

exactly

the issue is that they had an error in season 1

and didn't clarify or correct it

until way later

[lofty needle]

the east certainly is on paar or has now surpassed the peak of the west coast bos (since in their prime they constructed a fleet of airships that sailed eastward)

[tired yew]

There's a 9+ year hole in the timeline which most of these airships were assembled in

[coarse grove]

This ^

We can assume it's within this timeline.

But definitively we don't know.

[torpid cargo]

Oh I forgot the west are the original airship builders

[tired yew]

We don't know where/when/how they were individually assembled but most likely they were collaborative efforts between local chapters and eastern detachments

[lofty needle]

is it confirmed in s1 that the usage of the prydwen wasnt just a mistake by the showrunners? cause it could easilly just have been the casswennon delivered to them alongside these new knights and it would all work perfectly lol

[tired yew]

We've seen no indication of it being a mistake afaik

[coarse grove]

It is confirmed the Prydwen usage was and wasn't a mistake. The Prydwen was ONLY there to drop of supplies and LEAVE the Mojave, it did not STAY.

[lofty needle]

right

[coarse grove]

And interviews before episode 1 s2 even launched kept confirming Casswenan as the airship

not the Prydwen.

[lofty needle]

okay so then the casswennon was likely given to them before the events of the tv show within that 9 year timeframe

[coarse grove]

Yes, we just didn't see it until later.

[lofty needle]

makes sense

[tired yew]

Either given or assembled, we can't really say

[lofty needle]

assuming the origin of the other 3 chapter's airships is also unknown

[tired yew]

The other chapters are all positioned relatively strongly to assemble an airship

[torpid cargo]

Or recovered. There’s at least 1 on the west coast that is pre war. It’s gotta be somewhere

[tired yew]

Quintus is kind of the only chapter without many assets territorially

[lofty needle]

oh actually this leads into another thing im hoping for - will they have airship content in coopers alaska flashback

[scenic bobcat]

Hope we get names for the rest of the airships

[coarse grove]

I would argue it's one of 3, either the east made them, they crafted them themselves, or they recovered their own.

I'm partial to believe the East assisted them, but that's just my opinion.

[lofty needle]

we know it is in the flashbackk but how much will it feature

(hopefully not jsut background)

[cold jetty]

We’ve only seen that 1 clip so far

[lofty needle]

yes

[tired yew]

They probably couldn't craft them entirely on their own given the state of the western brotherhood

[coarse grove]

Perhaps, yeah.

[tired yew]

The designs are also all very similar which suggests some form of consistent assembly practice

[coarse grove]

Given that they are modelled after the Prydwen specifically, not another airship designation, it's why I'm leaning with some sort of Eastern assistance.

[torpid cargo]

That might be the VFX department only wanting to deal with 1 airship model.

[tired yew]

Eastern detachments sent to assist and organize their assembly using local salvage seems the most plausible

[coarse grove]

TRUE

[tired yew]

Dude they have bezos money

They could get live action alien actors for this if they wanted

[normal veldt]

Does anyone here know Welsh? I'm kinda curious about the meaning of "Caswennan" and I hope it's not a made-up word

[tired yew]

It's a sword iirc

[coarse grove]

Arthurian legend.

[tired yew]

Almost as knightly as naming something a crusader

[coarse grove]

The name "Caswennan" is an alternative name used in some versions of the Arthurian legend for the ship sailed by King Arthur. As for it's meaning, I don't know.

[tired yew]

Actually no I was thinking of a different blade named almost identically

Out of curiosity do we know how the brotherhood keeps deploying T-60? They don't have the same stockpiles of T-45/T-51 to draw on for it

[normal veldt]

Source?

[turbid radish]

My assumption is post fallout 3 they have begun producing. T-60 so it is most common

[coarse grove]

the wiki, and you can literally look up Caswennan in King Arthur's stories

or his ships.

[tired yew]

Presumably Arthurian legend

[coarse grove]

Given the PA changes, this is the unfortunate reality. lol

[violet plover]

That aesthetic was still there with scribe & elder robes in 3/NV, F4 changed the scribe aesthetic

[normal veldt]

Probably put all the metal from the Pitt to good use
Imagine betraying the ppl they gave you T-60s as treats, I'd never

[lofty needle]

im sure some other people will provide explanations but one huge problem with PA in general is the t45 and t51 suuits are heavily explained in lore, but t60 has significantly less on it and it also slightly conflicts with what we know about the other 2. so as for how the bos has so much its hard to say lol

[tired yew]

Perhaps, although I don't think we see any particular indication of them producing it outright in 4 or the show

[turbid radish]

No, but Danse implies they are thinking of it

[tired yew]

It was developed and never really deployed beyond Boston before the war so they probably secured sets that had wandered out to the capital wasteland

[turbid radish]

They clearly haven’t forgotten about other versions since we see t-45

[tired yew]

T-60 is a t-45 derivative right

Whereas T-51 is sort of its own thing

[lofty needle]

t60 was used extensively by the military both abroad and domestically

[coarse grove]

t51 was fallout 76 promo

[turbid radish]

We are talking about the show here

Of course the games haven’t

[normal veldt]

According to a 16th-century manuscript, Caswennan was the name of the sandbank responsible for sinking King Arthur's ship.

Interesting

[tired yew]

How did they even manage to deploy it

[turbid radish]

?

[lofty needle]

well thats where the lore problems come up lmao t51 was deployed a few months before the nuclear war so how t60 was mass deployed is anyone's guess

[tired yew]

I thought it was specifically deployed on the east coast, do we have sources for its mass deployment too

[turbid radish]

T-51 is better then t-60 but more expensive

Just because they were created and made in order doesn’t mean they were deployed in that order

[coarse grove]

It was deplyed for riot control too, I thought?

[torpid cargo]

8 months is quite a bit of time from between the liberation of Anchorage, and when we see T-60 in fallout 4 opening.

[lofty needle]

Fallout 4 loading screens: "The T-60 series of Power Armor saw extensive use by the United States Army after the Battle of Anchorage. In fact, soldiers in T-60 Power Armor were among those trying to retain order on October 23, 2077 - the day America fell to atomic war..."

[olive depot]

Honestly, I think they are just doing sex jokes. After all, ep 1 had that inbred support group with that one... Pair. Seems to be recurring joke now after S1.

[coarse grove]

retain order, i wonder if that implies the riot control stuff

[lofty needle]

this is the big theory solution to teh lore incosistencies its that the t51 and 60 were developed alongside one another but t51 was its own thing (supererior but expensive) and 60 was based on the 45 but cheapter and mass produced

[tired yew]

The fallout 4 opening isn't much of a leap because it's very close to where T-60 was originally developed

[lofty needle]

then dont even get me started on why there are so many prewar x01 suits about in boston

[coarse grove]

LOL

[turbid radish]

Many of the parts likely could be retrofitted. The production of t-51 would take all new assembly lines

[tired yew]

I've just given up and said gameplay convenience at that point

[lofty needle]

ye exactly this

[coarse grove]

MODUS rubbing his hands in Whitespring with the biggest stockpile in history.

[river merlin]

My only complaint was that they didn’t give us more BoS named characters in season 1, that kill would’ve hit harder if it hadn’t just been “Power Armor Soldier 02” getting one shot

[tired yew]

So T-51 was initially deployed mid 2076

Then T-60 was deployed sometime 2077

[torpid cargo]

The Nuka world X-01 💀

[turbid radish]

I mean they only have so much air time if they aren’t critical to the plot they aren’t getting a name

[coarse grove]

oh GOD they did take an x01 and use it for fucking brand promotions and rewards.

[lyric dune]

Boston is a port city

[lofty needle]

then u gotta factor in that t51 took 10 years to develop which is what leads me to the thinking that they were developed alongside one another as opposed to seperately

[lyric dune]

With a large military presence

And t 51 was made in fort strong

[turbid radish]

T-51 is a different design ground up. Military naming conventions don’t indicate origin or lineage of design

[lyric dune]

Still

There is already factors showing that X-01 could have been shipped over there for testing and what not

[tired yew]

Gaah I don't like the fact that they've sort of retconned T-60 into being absolutely everywhere

Whatever it's fine

[torpid cargo]

It really wouldn’t have been that hard to just use T-45…

[turbid radish]

They already moved past that

Not a show issue

[tired yew]

The western brotherhood was still using T-51 and T-45 last we saw of them before the show

They definitely could've just stuck to that if they wished to

[turbid radish]

We all want to see t-51

[lyric dune]

And we will see it

[lofty needle]

im assuming the developers thought the t45 design looked cooler so made the t60 so that it wouldnt be overshadowed by the t51 but this is a crazy thought cause that means the writers think the t45/t60 look better than the absolute beauty that is t51b

[turbid radish]

But easy to assume the brotherhood has figured out how to produce t-60 so it will be the default

[lyric dune]

I don't think the writers for the show will skip over the most popular pa set

[normal veldt]

Any thoughts on this suit of PA? Why did NCR leave it in Vegas?

[turbid radish]

Why do we think they “left it”

[tired yew]

Oh speaking of things we want to see, it looks like the ranger power armor has an up-armorrd torso compared to standard T-60

[lyric dune]

Maybe it's from the lady we see at camp golf

[coarse grove]

NCR pulled out of the Mojave, its safe to assume they left it behind.

[turbid radish]

The NCR is still active in Vegas

[lyric dune]

Yeah camp golf

[tired yew]

We don't know the status of the NCR yet it hasn't come up

[lyric dune]

Its likely from ncr forces there

[torpid cargo]

Active is a stretch. Probably more like stranded.

[normal veldt]

So the trooper at camp golf is a retired soldier or?

[turbid radish]

According to?

[lofty needle]

the helmet looks goofy to me but ill wait until i see it in action before hating

[coarse grove]

Unless the interview magnus posted is lying, the NCR at camp golf is stranded with no back up - left behind.

[tired yew]

The suit is a nice middle ground between the now dubious salvaged power armor from NV and the newer tank models from 4+

[lofty needle]

then again the season 1 veteran ranger helmet looked goofy so i wont hate too hard lol

[coarse grove]

if i had time to dig for it again i will or magnus can post it again if he sees this

[lyric dune]

They are left 4 dead

[coarse grove]

Yeah i figured they were

[turbid radish]

It looked weird because it wasn’t worn fully strapped on

By scavs

[torpid cargo]

Well considering they’re in Novac already and haven’t see any, or had to pass through the I-15 checkpoint.

Missed opportunity btw to see the statues

[lofty needle]

oh interesting

[tired yew]

They also changed the duster for that specific sequence as well

[turbid radish]

We don’t know they went through the Mojave outpost

[tired yew]

The alternative is the divide which is... Turbulent

[lofty needle]

yeah the writers really conveniently skipped over how anyone got into the mojave to begin with

[coarse grove]

like i said an article that saw the episodes early talked about it, the ncr at camp golf is left for dead - stranded, they're not 'active' in the sense they can call for back up or have reinforcements.

[torpid cargo]

We also don’t know if there anymore than camp golf. Which that camp has never been anything to take seriously

[lofty needle]

i wouldve liked to have seen the mojave outpost statue

[drowsy garden]

@carmine ruin Sorry friend, we don't allow memes per #rules 2

[turbid radish]

They were tracking Hank who can fly, it’s safe to assume he went straight over the mountains and the ghoul followed him

[tired yew]

Without a 'back west' to guard there's no reason for them to operate the Mojave outpost tbh

[turbid radish]

The long 15 (and prior the divide) is the only safe clear route, there are others

[tired yew]

The limited flying capabilities of T-60 are not sufficient for one to merely jump over the mountains

[lofty needle]

tbf it does make sense that the NCR is stranded in the mojave since the mojave outpost is supposed to be the only westard way (or a proper road) into the mojave and that leads to the boneyard which the ncr doesnt even occupy anymore

[torpid cargo]

Definitely would have run into Cazadors lol

[turbid radish]

According to? And you can literally walk over them irl

[tired yew]

Dude you can see the jets in it

[turbid radish]

Yeah and it’s very capable

[coarse grove]

as far as we know, there isn't an official NCR people left - at least as far as camp golf goes, just those who were left behind. But we might be wrong, idk yet

[tired yew]

Whatever the case it's not particularly important and presumably Hank is walking around given that it is very hard to track an airborne missile

[normal veldt]

Does it look like a modified t-60 or? My pictures are kinda blurry but I'm you've seen it before

[tired yew]

It's most likely modified T-60 yeah

[coarse grove]

The NCR is known to salvage power armor, it could very well be modified t60

[tired yew]

The arm pieces seem to be the most distinct pieces

[coarse grove]

they salvaged all the BoS armor from Helios 1.

it wouldn't be out of style for them to do that.

[torpid cargo]

They didn’t have T60 at Helios?

[coarse grove]

No im saying they have the capabilities to RETROFIT PA.

[tired yew]

Thank you Fallout 4 :(

[coarse grove]

They can retrofit a T60.

[normal veldt]

How did NCR get a modified t60 and why did they just leave it in Vegas?

[river merlin]

When those fans popped up out of the desert I was really hoping they were solar panels for Helios at first :\

[lofty needle]

honestly it doesnt look like either of the tv show's versions of t45 or t60 based on what the body looks like so im unsure

[coarse grove]

When your city gets blown up and the brass says pull out, you don't ask questions. 🙂

[tired yew]

The NCR didn't fall particularly cleanly so it's not like they had an opportunity to withdraw

[torpid cargo]

I hate the idea that everything the west has is from the east.

[lofty needle]

then again ye its probably a heavily modified version of one of the suits so it could be any of the power armor versions

[tired yew]

We don't know the context behind the suit yet, but we do know the NCR has access to power armor in some capacity

[coarse grove]

It's hard to tell, genuinely - im just not opposed to the NCR Retrofitting armors cause they've done it before.

[turbid radish]

The NCR also has advanced scientists they could legit just make it lol

[weary sorrel]

All the more reason for the NCR to lock in once more; can’t have the Easterners hog all the action.

[torpid cargo]

Like Fantastic

[coarse grove]

Literally their Heavy Troopers wear 'Salvaged Power Armor' and it's t45 from Helios 1 that the BoS died with, not all of them obviously, but enough to equip troopers with it.

[turbid radish]

They have enclave and BOS armor

[tired yew]

The chestpiece is the main reason I think it's T-60 everything else is borderline indeterminate

[normal veldt]

If the troops did make it back to California then why's it that we never saw them in S1?

[tired yew]

Well... We did

[turbid radish]

Because shady sands is a crater with no resources, why would they be there

[tired yew]

At least some of them

[coarse grove]

I never said the troops made a come back, I'm of the belief the NCR is gone for the most part - with a few surviving/struggling ragtags and remnants. Now outside of the Mojave? I believe the NCR is perfectly okay.

[lofty needle]

i kinda wish they just made the NCR power armor a frameless suit of t45 or t51 and then gave it an ncr paintjob or made it like that one in the nuked out i15

[tired yew]

Moldaver was a splinter cell of the NCR near LA, presumably there are a lot of those dotting California

[torpid cargo]

They had 15 years to pull out. Why would anyone still be left behind in the Mojave..

[coarse grove]

I just think SS getting blown up, fucked up their operations in the Mojave and they had to draw back troops.

[tired yew]

This would be literally physically impossible to operate now

[turbid radish]

Because we don’t know they would immediately retreat

[tired yew]

You would be armoring a super mutant if you're using power armor without the frame

[turbid radish]

People make so many assumptions that could be easily written around or explained

[coarse grove]

Retreats, especially sudden ones are not CLEAN. You lose stuff, leave stuff behind, etc etc. It's unfortunate but the sad reality is shit happens. Even people get left behind, it's pretty tragic.

[normal veldt]

Where?

[torpid cargo]

Yeah but 15 years. Thats the time it takes to go back and forth across the country twice

[tired yew]

Probably couldn't, the NCR is a mess without any coherent government or unified military as things stand

[tired yew]

Moldaver's guys are all NCR

We don't know where they came from but they're presumably not uncommon

[coarse grove]

NCR Ragtags, survivors from SS, and other NCR leftovers.

[turbid radish]

Once again we don’t know that the NCR would even retreat from Mojave post nuke

They still would want the dam

The dam provides water for most of Cali

[normal veldt]

Perfectly ok in which region? Cos we sure didn't see them in the ruins of LA

[coarse grove]

I'm operating that they did given they abandoned Camp Golf, and left those soldiers to die but that's just me.

[torpid cargo]

Considering how much the regs hated being in the Mojave. I feel desertions would be insane.

[tired yew]

Why would they continue operating an understaffed roadstop if all the caravans heading/coming from the west are abruptly grinded to a halt

[weary sorrel]

What inherently says that the NCR government crapped out after Shady Sands blew up? Place wasn’t even its definitive capital anymore, let’s not forget.

[turbid radish]

Because the dam feeds the Colorado, which most of California gets its water from

It’s critical for their survival

[tired yew]

The fact that it literally did

Moldaver is using the NCR banner with NCR soldiers and NCR assets, the NCR almost definitely doesn't have a cohesive government right now

[turbid radish]

We have only seen the NCR in shady sands we don’t know what the other states are like

[lofty needle]

hows the ncr gonna get the water back west though? they abandoned presumably the entire state of the boneyard

[normal veldt]

Yeah but what happened to the actual military, let's say they managed to retreat from the Mojave... Nvm, maybe they didn't

[tired yew]

True but we do know the brotherhood is active in most of California very explicitly now

[turbid radish]

It’s called, a river

[weary sorrel]

NCR was more than just Shady, it had multiple states with respectable cities; one city, original capital or not, getting nuked doesn’t automatically mean the NCR as we knew it from 1, 2, and NV must inherently be gone for good.

[turbid radish]

Notoriously hard to stop

[tired yew]

The actual military in question seems to have gone two ways, either 1. NCR splinter cells like moldaver or 2. Retirees like the farmer the ghoul visits

[lofty needle]

no theyre definitely not gone

[coarse grove]

Yeah this is what I was saying, and it's confirmed they have multiple capitals, at least one other.

[lofty needle]

were saying that since they lost the boneyard, the situation in the mojave is likely not good either

[coarse grove]

We don't know WHICH exactly, it's just enough information we've gotten from the show to be like, "Hey, they're still alive."

[tired yew]

Not gone for good but it is definitely on the backfoot and no longer functioning as a nation

There could be 50 or 60 different little NCR factions across California trying to get a handle on things we just really don't know

[lofty needle]

i mean i still think the NCR is functioning as a nation but just elsewhere

[normal veldt]

So most soldiers probably just quit since there's no one left to pay them then?

[tired yew]

Well, where? In the south we have another brotherhood chapter in the north we have another brotherhood chapter and outside of California there's a fourth brotherhood chapter

[lofty needle]

like the other guy said the NCR's main capital (hopefully arroyo) is doing jsut fine

[coarse grove]

Or they fight cause they still believe in them.

Who keeps doing that MM emoji.

I've seen it all day now.

[tired yew]

Most likely the majority have moved on or joined up with local groups by now

[lofty needle]

i mean you had multiple huge cities: the hub, vault city, arroyo, etc

[weary sorrel]

As for why they never tried to retake the Shady Sands area, I’d imagine the resources to do so probably wouldn’t be worth it for Congress. Moldaver’s operation could be a rogue operation or something like the NCR’s relief op in Freeside; given minimal support if any at all.

[tired yew]

It automatically goes out if I accidentally double tap a message for some reason

[torpid cargo]

New Reno, Vault City, Junktown, The Hub, maybe even San Francisco if they got chill with the Shi

[coarse grove]

okay. LMAO

[lofty needle]

and the west coast bos although now being on the rise hasnt conquered the west coast yet

[tired yew]

No but their presence is at previously unexpected strength

[lofty needle]

im hoping they give more attention to shady sands since its a location where a GECK was used (hence why the underground water is compeltely purified and crops can grow easily in a desert)

[tired yew]

They have multiple airships operating in California there's just no way for the NCR to cut through the chaos as things stand

[normal veldt]

Maybe they're all just city states now

[tired yew]

Shady sands didn't- huh what

[weary sorrel]

Cue the looming Brotherhood civil war to level the playing field.

[tired yew]

They must've secured a geck some time after fallout 1 I guess

[lofty needle]

idk shady sands only had 34k people (which theyve reduced significantly from fallout 2) so it makes me think the bombing wouldnt hurt the ncr much

[torpid cargo]

Not anymore after the creation of that crater and the nuke contamination.

[tired yew]

The bureaucratic damage would be much worse than the numeric casualties

[normal veldt]

But it did hurt, like a lot according to BGS

[lofty needle]

ye it was founded with vault 15s geck thats why it was (orginally) the NCR's capital

[tired yew]

It would've thrown the entire NCR into disarray and made them vulnerable to a second push from the brotherhood

[lofty needle]

i mean dont get me wrong the NCR is in a terrible state theyve lost an entire state after all but i highly doubt theyre literally just gone

[tired yew]

Evidently the eastern brotherhood also began intervening in western affairs hence the airships

The fall of the NCR wasn't as simple as just one nuke but for now it has effectively been shattered

[weary sorrel]

Plus, it’s ambiguous whether Shady Sands was even the current capital; for all we know, Hank nuked the NCR equivalent of Philadelphia. A leg shot and a major ‘oh crap’ moment that’d rattle everyone from Arroyo to San Francisco, but not inherently the killing blow by itself.

[lofty needle]

nono it straight up isnt the current capital

theres a sign outside it that says shady sands is the "first" capital of the ncr

[tired yew]

We can probably assume the narrative intention was to destroy the capital of the NCR at the time

[normal veldt]

I'm just surprised that they never mentioned an NCR civil war, which probably might've happened after SS got bombed

[torpid cargo]

Why would he not want to go for the capital if his intentions were to erase factionalism?

[lofty needle]

the sign was built before the nuke went off

[tired yew]

Which could mean anything from they relocated it a decade ago to there are now 4 different "capitals"

[turbid radish]

Because he wanted to kill the people stealing his water and his wife

He got cucked and is pissed about it

[tired yew]

He wanted to kill the NCR

[weary sorrel]

Hank made a mistake, maybe?

[tired yew]

Hank isn't that daft lol

He wouldn't hit the wrong capital of the NCR

[lofty needle]

i dont know what hank was thinking but yeah the fact shady sands only had 34k people now compared to the 700k it had in fallout 2 is strange

that might be a retcon theyve done tho idk

[tired yew]

I assumed the 700k number was the NCR as a whole

[torpid cargo]

Unless he’s just uneducated. Like he would have known the NCR was started by a vault.

[turbid radish]

He is nuking the city that took is kids and wife, and was siphoning his water

[turbid radish]

It was

[lofty needle]

oh actually yes youre right

i backtrack the 34k comments lmao

[tired yew]

Which doesn't actually matter because he's (among other things) corporate vault tec whereas vault 15 wasn't supposed to go to the surface for a while

He is also notably a hypocrite

[weary sorrel]

To be fair, there wasn’t much evidence linking the nuke back to him even if the nuke was disarmed, otherwise 33 would’ve been stormed by a very angry and vengeful NCR army.

[lofty needle]

personally i think teh NCR probably presume the bos did it since they arrived in the crater of shady sands directly after but idk

[coarse grove]

This is what i said.

If the NCR knew what hit them, they would've gone after Hank.

[tired yew]

Moldaver probably knew what was up but we don't know a ton about her official role in the NCR

[coarse grove]

But the fact someone nuked SS, and it went untraced, probably spooked Tf out of the NCR

[normal veldt]

I think the biggest problem with Hank nuking Shady Sands is that Vault-tec should be cool with residents of Vault 15 reclaiming the surface, why would they have a problem with that?

Now there's a new theory about him secretly working for the Enclave, which might explain his real motives

[weary sorrel]

True, and it’d be hilariously easy for the NCR to immediately jump at the opportunity to throw hands with the Brotherhood; folks like Moore wouldn’t have needed any convincing to blame the Brotherhood.

[coarse grove]

Hanks intentions were too fold, don't forget - he wanted to kill his Wife, too.

[tired yew]

1. Vault dwellers are not vault tec
2. They were not supposed to be on the surface at all

[coarse grove]

People forget that bit.

[lofty needle]

true lol

[normal veldt]

So ppl from vault 15 are just expandable lab 🐁?

[lofty needle]

we also don't know if hank really did it to destroy factionalism - thats what moldover says, hank might not have done it on orders of vault tec at all. the guy literally abandons the vault 33 experiment he was designated to twice

[coarse grove]

The citizens? yes, because it's a mix of dweller survivors and SS survivors.

[tired yew]

Yes literally every single vault we've ever seen besides 31 was entirely lab rats

[coarse grove]

HIS WIFE. His main target was his wife for the nuke.

It was a two fold.

Two problems, one stone. Weaken a faction, kill his wife.

[lofty needle]

the overkill on his wife lmao

[normal veldt]

Moldaver did find out about the truth tho didn't she, so a lot of ppl probably know about it too

[weary sorrel]

Might be a good idea to see a flashback where we see Lucy and Norm’s kidnapping by Hank; might clear some stuff up.

[coarse grove]

It is overkill, but that was his goal.

"She stopped being your mother the moment she took you to the surface."

[tired yew]

Moldaver was close to the situation from the start

[coarse grove]

Moldaver probably told them, tbh, but still why SHE DIDN'T say anything to the NCR is unhinged.

[weary sorrel]

Hank be putting Ulysses to shame in sheer hateful pettiness.

[coarse grove]

Nuking your spouse cause she wanted to do good is crazy work.

[tired yew]

The fuck would she say? Insane custody battle resulted in nuclear war?

[lofty needle]

yeaah like she had years to do it as well

[torpid cargo]

I hope he failed to weaken the NCR just like he somehow failed to kill his wife with a nuke.

[lofty needle]

tbf maybe to avoid further nuclear attacks?

[coarse grove]

Literally anything, anything would've been decent enough. She could've told them where the vault was.

[normal veldt]

Oh... So that's why he decided to save Lucy instead of other vault 33 dwellers (including Steph from vault 31) huh?

[coarse grove]

Maybe, that might be right actually.

If he had easy access like that? Hmm.

[tired yew]

He didn't fail to weaken the NCR, he just didn't quite destroy civilization either

[coarse grove]

I rescind my statement.

[weary sorrel]

Maybe the NCR didn’t believe her? Easier to just blame the Brotherhood than accept maybe they had nothing to do with the matter. The NCR’s been beefing with them for nearly fifty years at this point, that kind of hatred doesn’t go away easily.

[tired yew]

He's also an emotionally unstable traditionalist family man

[lofty needle]

this is also a good point

[tired yew]

The fall of shady sands would've put the NCR in a state of disarray immediately, I'm not even sure they'd be able to coordinate any action before the brotherhood started poking them

[coarse grove]

It's possible, but then why didn't the NCR wipe out the Brotherhood. Lol

And why did they choose to retreat instead.

[tired yew]

Almost did

[normal veldt]

Judging by the fact that she almost got Rose's (totally just a friend btw) children killed by the raiders she hired... She was very unhinged

[coarse grove]

It's shown that SS flipped the NCR on it's head, too when it got bombed.

[tired yew]

They destroyed 4 bunkers in California and left the western brotherhood brutalized before they needed to reallocate resources towards the legion

[coarse grove]

IN THE SHOW?

[tired yew]

They would've won outright if the legion didn't get involved

[torpid cargo]

I thought those were self detonated to deny them to the NCR? That’s what the wiki says.

[coarse grove]

This ^

[tired yew]

In NV
in the show they probably weren't even in a position to with their logistical and administrative hub in ruins

[weary sorrel]

Especially when the Brotherhood is 100% guilty of screwing with the NCR’s economy regarding blowing up their gold reserves as per NV. Not hard to think folks would blame the BoS in that context for Shady going boom.

Or, failing that, blame the Legion.

[tired yew]

Best case scenario the NCR might have had a few years of time when they were still mostly intact but they'd be fighting fires everywhere especially with the brotherhood beginning to get eastern aid

[lofty needle]

i mean the "western" bos (not the ones in the show) are still about somewhere but theyve just not been introduced yet

[coarse grove]

This is also true.

[lofty needle]

like the ones that went into hiding after the ncr war

[normal veldt]

I think it was mentioned by Col. Moore iirc

[coarse grove]

And the ones that didn't answer quintus.

[tired yew]

California is the majority of the western BOS that has been acknowledged as actually existing

[weary sorrel]

Who Lost Hills backs in particular is up in the air still. And if Hidden Valley didn’t go boom, add them in too as an unknown factor.

[tired yew]

They could have chapters up north but California is where we know they actually are

[coarse grove]

Yeah but those were denied by the BoS given they blew them up. Unless they're lying.

[tired yew]

I doubt quintus has lost hills for obvious reasons which would mean lost hills is under the control of the uhh what's it called

[lofty needle]

na but in fallout 4 maxson is given authory by the west coast brotherhood (probably lost hills plus others whatever happen to that lol) and i highly doubt quintus who didnt have knights was in a position of authority to give maxson charge

[tired yew]

Lost hills is in California

[lofty needle]

i mean california is big

[tired yew]

3 of the 4 summit chapters are in California

There are only 2 chapters in the west that have been named and aren't in California

[lofty needle]

yeah but not all of them answered quintus' call

[tired yew]

Sure but the lack of evidence of their nonexistence isn't evidence of their existence either

[coarse grove]

There was intended to be more, yeah, that's undeniable. Quintus says that almost word for word in the episode.

[tired yew]

Unfortunately they did not give us an invitation list

[coarse grove]

No it's implied THEY REPLIED, they don't have the RESOURCES to go.

You have to watch the scene again.

Because the resources to make the trip, are rare.

[torpid cargo]

This reminds me of the start of rise of skywalker where the hosnian system is blown up by the first order, then they skip ahead to the first order controlling everything and being everywhere.

[tired yew]

We don't know the actual state of the western brotherhood but asserting that California isn't a critical part of the western brotherhood just doesn't make sense

[tired yew]

This is because that was literally the only system in the new Republic that actually fielded an active military

[coarse grove]

No one saying it isn't, but we're saying there's probably a lot more present that we're giving credit for, and it should at least be acknowledged, there's a lot of chapters outside of the 4 we see when the show states it.

[tired yew]

The new Republic demilitarized as soon as possible

[tired yew]

We don't really know anything about them though

[lofty needle]

in nv the western bos have a high council of elders these are the same fellas that give maxson authority and send elijah to the mojave i highly doubt (given this is after most of the ncr bos war) theyve died and/or are the robot-sex chapter and the quintus chapter etc

[tired yew]

They say there are dozens which suggests that yes there are more but until we actually see or hear about them that isn't worth much

[coarse grove]

That doesn't mean THEY don't exist.

[tired yew]

The council of elders is fallout 1 lore

[lofty needle]

its mentioned in nv the rest of the elders kick elijah to the east cause his influence is growing and hes crazy (extreme)

not the fallout 1 council but a "council"

[tired yew]

Nor does it mean they do exist on any scale, it could mean 2 unnamed chapters outside of California or it could mean the Midwest brotherhood owns the entirety of the great lakes

Without information we cannot take anything about the vaguely defined western brotherhood we haven't seen as a given

[lofty needle]

i mean the western bos once dominated the west with the ncr they decline with the ncr bos war but they werent hunted into extermination and its highly unlikely they are the incompetant chapters shown in the tv series

[tired yew]

The western brotherhood in question is also pretty specifically the brotherhood in and around California

The chapters we see in episode 2 are descendants of the original California brotherhood/western brotherhood

[lofty needle]

theyre not all of the west coast bos though

[tired yew]

We don't know that

We know absolutely nothing about the northwest US

[torpid cargo]

We know there are ones who couldn’t make it to Area 51

[tired yew]

Which also tells us practically nothing

[lofty needle]

quintus tells us other chapters didnt answer his call

on the west

[coarse grove]

Yeah idk why we're pretending this is not directly stated. It's fine if YOU don't want to believe it, but the show specifically states chapters don't respond - they exist, the trip is TOO costly for them

[tired yew]

We don't know anything about them

[coarse grove]

That doesn't mean they don't exist, their existence is proven by them literally responding to Quintus's message.

[tired yew]

So we cannot take their acknowledgement as an indication that there's a stronger western brotherhood elsewhere

I mean we don't even know where they are that could be referring to other chapters within California for all we know

[lofty needle]

yeah but what im trying to say is there is still more of the western bos we dont see

[tired yew]

But since we don't see it we don't know if it's enough of a western bos to really change things

My point is just the only thing we can actually put weight behind is the existence of brotherhood strongholds within California, the existence of other chapters at locations we don't even have the slightest clue for doesn't change that

[lofty needle]

idk man i get your point but one must have optimism

[tired yew]

They'll bring them up if they become relevant I guess

It seems like their intention with this civil war thing is weakening the brotherhood in California significantly for whatever reason so it's probably safe to assume the chapters at the summit do represent a notable part of the brotherhood in the west

[normal veldt]

The Courier: "Any recommendations on how to complete the mission?"
Robert House: "From time to time, the NCR has assaulted Brotherhood bunkers. In four of the six incidents I know of, the bunkers self-destructed. I surmise it's standard practice for the Brotherhood to install a self-destruct system. It's consistent with their uncompromising nature. You might use that against them. Or kill them another way, it's up to you. Return when it's done."

Nvm I got it mixed, it's according to House

[coarse grove]

Yeah i knew it wasn't the NCR that did it.

The fact that it became standard practice for the Mojave chapter though is fucking grim.

[tired yew]

The fact that the NCR even pushed the brotherhood into such a position as to have to do that in 2 thirds of their assaults should tell you a fair bit about how the war in California played out

[normal veldt]

Somehow the NCR just disintegrated

[coarse grove]

lol

[tired yew]

It's the type of goofy absurdity that strikes me as very fitting of the fallout 1 "the super mutants will never expect our fortifications to be THIS robust!" Brotherhood

I imagine they've probably been setting up asset denial contingencies since the beginning

[lofty needle]

i think id agree with you that the bulk of the "strength" of the bos on the west probably being these chapters we see in the show, but the west coast bos is incredibly fractured and the group of elders and lost hills i still have faith for believing exists. there's not proof lost hills has fallen (its currently in ncr territory which im also believing still exists) because we get recurring hints at these elders from fallout 3 nv and 4. plus things like the circle of steel, and i highly doubt theyd just ignore the fate of the the main BOS hq on the west

[coarse grove]

optimistic indeed, i am at least, especially with some of the stuff Magnus DM'd me. Actually a lot more BoS stuff coming that I thought.

[tired yew]

Lost hills is either nonexistent or at the summit already

[lofty needle]

its not at the summit tho, and it being non-existant is like if they said the capital wasteland bos suddenly died

[tired yew]

Lost hills is positioned between LA and Mariposa both of which are within the territorial claims of brotherhood cells present at the summit

So either quintus has it or the Yosemites have it

[lofty needle]

we dont kbow the territory boundaries of these chapters and im pretty sure they dont reach over into lost hills because thats in the ncr state of maxson

[coarse grove]

Or other chapters that chose not to come have it.

[lofty needle]

which we dont know the status of

[tired yew]

If Maxson is still intact that does not bode very well for lost hills either

[lofty needle]

theres like complicated history surrounding lost hills being an eclave of the ncr

[tired yew]

Quintus would take it in a heartbeat if it was available, and I'd have expected it to be one of the first places the east coast would support in the timeline gap

The lack of reference to it could just be an oversight though

[coarse grove]

He wouldn't have the man power to do that.

[lofty needle]

this could be due to the ncr presence tho

i mean

honestly for both of us theres so little to go on

[coarse grove]

Going that deep into NCR territory too, when his chapter in it's state is suicide.

There's just no way.

[lofty needle]

also i dont even trust the west coast geography anymore after shady sands moving around twice lol

[coarse grove]

THIS.

[lofty needle]

and the idea that the NCR could literally still own 4 states or not even exist being up in the air

[tired yew]

So lost hills is either an east coast supporting enclave, under the Yosemite banner or just completely ambiguous

[coarse grove]

Imagine if they moved lost hills further away. 😂

[tired yew]

If it's still operational it would probably represent the largest brotherhood stronghold after the civil war in California

[pastel hatch]

Oh god, first Shady Sands, then Lost Hills. Imagine that.

What’s next? Junktown is in Sacramento?

[coarse grove]

Vault City gotta get moved.

[lofty needle]

idk i just think since lost hills is sort of teh first bos chapter theyd not (hopefully) forget about it

[coarse grove]

It's highly unlikely that they would, I'm giving them slightly more credit than that.

[lofty needle]

and for decades and decades it was the leading bos chapter until maxson which only become the bos head recently

[pastel hatch]

NOOOOOOO no no NOPE. Enough with the butchering of locations please

[coarse grove]

Maybe it'll bite me in the ass, but i'll be optimistic for it.

[tired yew]

The BOS even having a 'leading chapter' has been left largely ambiguous since fallout 1

[lofty needle]

i mean for years i thought they forgot about the entire west coast but hey im joyfully surprised lol

[pastel hatch]

I wonder if the show will ever acknowledge that the Mojave Chapter existed. Like Maximus exploring the old Hidden Valley bunker would be pretty cool

[coarse grove]

We all did, but they've been cooking stuff up.

[tired yew]

Everything about the western elders could be interpreted as all the elders in California consulting eachother rather than a specific administration

[lofty needle]

fallout 3 has one subtle and specific reference to making the guys back in lost hills proud which ik is VERY weak evidence

[tired yew]

That is probably the only thing they can't do if they want to avoid canonizing an ending

[lofty needle]

ive always assumed any mention of the collective elder leadership msutve tied back to lost hills in the west cause weve been given nothing to suggest otherwise

which also aint ideal to go on

[coarse grove]

In one of the BoS endings, it says they left the bunker and headed further west to find or start a new chapter.

[lofty needle]

yeah this is fair

[tired yew]

Grand canyon brotherhood perhaps

[coarse grove]

Doubtful, im just saying in a general sense of west.

[tired yew]

Yeah the grand canyon is just one such possible location they could've theoretically moved to

[coarse grove]

“Buried beneath tons of rubble, the Mojave chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel was no more. Those few who were outside the Hidden Valley bunker when it was destroyed settled into new lives, or headed west to find a new chapter to join."

[tired yew]

But they definitely won't explain it which is probably fine

[coarse grove]

4 more days anyhow.

Looking forward to it.

[normal veldt]

How are they supposed to avoid canonising anything if they're gonna show us Freeside & the Strip?

[lofty needle]

okay sitrep: ep 3's events are ghoul meets the NCR (maybe victor in camp golf resort too), lucy interacts with the legion

do we get more maximus?

and any flashbacks

[tired yew]

By making it an ending that isn't possible ingame or by refusing to give us information to work off of

[cold jetty]

Yes

[tired yew]

Another ghoul flashback would make sense given where he's left off

[coarse grove]

I love for this to happen next episode.

[normal veldt]

I guess they'll do more NCR flashbacks and I think someone mentioned Cooper's flashback in Alaska (probably episode 4)

[tired yew]

The Alaska flashback will be interesting to see

[coarse grove]

hopefully it's not too fucking dark

i couldn't see shit in the trailer

[lofty needle]

true acc while he's laying there and we didnt get any last ep

[lofty needle]

more of xander, do wethink we'll see the start of that civil war yet or too soon

[coarse grove]

sprinkled throughout i bet.

[normal veldt]

||I remember seeing a poster that shows Maximus holding the cold fusion mcguffin, apparently he's gonna steal it for the East BoS? Guess the show runners don't care about spoilers lol||

[coarse grove]

HO-OH. If he does, he's immediately my favorite.

[coarse grove]

NAHHHHHHHHHHH.

I love that for him.

I stand by the East being the Heartland if that theft is successful.

There's no dispute.

[cold jetty]

Episode 5 I think. I know things get bad in episode 4 or 5

[normal veldt]

Do you think it'll happen in the next episode or maybe 4? ||Lucy and Cooper are gonna be fighting at the Wrangler in Episode 5||

[lofty needle]

on the topic of this

[coarse grove]

I am curious if him and Xander do it together.

[lofty needle]

cooper meets house before he meets him in the lucky 38

[coarse grove]

YESSSSSSSSSSS.

[lofty needle]

he meets him at a veterans event

which i thought was surprising

and thats apparently next episode

[normal veldt]

So next episode?

[lofty needle]

yo this hard af, the east got all that and now unlimited energy

[coarse grove]

If the East gets Cold fusion, 100% Todd is making it the Heartland.

There's no way.

[cold jetty]

They probably wont get it. I think it will be used to help rebuild the ncr

[coarse grove]

Tragic BUT respectable, the NCR needs a comeback after SS.

[lofty needle]

the tv show does really push this sort of innocent victim frame onto the ncr

[normal veldt]

How are you sure?

[lofty needle]

its part of why i think they havent shown them yet

[coarse grove]

oh you mean like the NCR got caught up in a conflict they weren't really in?

Like Hank happened to choose them because of his wife?

[cold jetty]

Because Maximus is running away with it. While Xander stays back fighting the other chapters it seems

[lofty needle]

nono i mean like, all the flashbacks to the ncr we get in the tv show seem to really paint the ncr in quite a good light (especially if you view it just from a tv-only perspective)

[coarse grove]

Xander's a fucking madlad, holy shit.

[coarse grove]

Ohhhh, well yeah the NCR is good. Kimball just fucking sucks, they get a good leader, shit'll happen.

[lofty needle]

holy xander lmao

whats xander even gonna fight them with his vertiberd lol

[coarse grove]

I'd hope they stick with a new leader though.

[coarse grove]

Bro is a pilot apparently

Airship's can't really fight back

[lofty needle]

was the thaddeus with those kids scene in the ep 3 trailer?

[coarse grove]

I'm fully convinced Xander was sent to sabotage that meeting, if he does actually stay and fight.

or at least commanded to.

[lofty needle]

smart of maxson if he had that foresight

[cold jetty]

No he’s only in the thumbnail.

[coarse grove]

Yeah, like i said a day or two ago - Xander had to have been watching.

but I do wonder if Xander pushes Maximus to steal it.

[normal veldt]

Did he get a new suit of power armour? Can't see the scratches left the yaoguai anymore

[eager folio]

I have

[lofty needle]

im curious why xander seems to have this close relationship with maximus from an east coast bos member seeing this guy murdering another bos guy when u first meet him prob isnt a good look lol

[eager folio]

What is the question
I wish to discuss this in further detail

[lofty needle]

also i rewatched the trailer you sent a few days ago magnus it seems like we get securitrons content from both cooper and the bos next episode

[normal veldt]

He passed the vibe check

[lofty needle]

im fairly confident theyre in seperate locations

[lofty needle]

real

him in that vertibird with xander is one of the few times we've seen maximus smile

[coarse grove]

We were discussing T51, T45, and which came first - T60, where it was used, why T51 isn't more widespread, etc etc.

[ember swallow]

im rooting for east coast as enclave fan

[coarse grove]

East coast cares about it's brothers, and Max didn't look the 'best' in that fighting pit in the sense that he enjoyed what he just did.

[lofty needle]

true

[coarse grove]

Max genuinely looked exhausted, not having fun

I think Xander picked up on that

[eager folio]

Well then its simple
T-45 was the first to be created and if the flashback is at the start of the war
The T-45D would be the first shown
If it later on the war, then it would be T-51 however T-45 would have been used regardless due to its cheap cost and still being effective
T-60 was created after the battle of anchorage and was deployed months before the nukes came

[normal veldt]

Any thoughts on the Enclave in the show so far?

[eager folio]

The T-60 became a widely used BoS power armor due to issue that arised from T-51
T-51 was not only expensive to make but expensive to maintain
The T-60 was easier to maintain and easier to upgrade/produce (if they have means to make them)

Heck to prove it
Ajax claimed that in 76, despite being a really good PA, it never was used due to sheer pain it is to maintain the thing to begin with (as well as the plan to get it but that irrelevant)

[lofty needle]

t51 almost 100% wont be in the flashback cause it was rolled out way too close to the great war and cooper wwouldve had to have been a soldier aaaaages ago

[ember swallow]

As expected the enclave are still alive and always will be they are the pre war gov. tech so they are everywhere and have plan A-Z not just the first few we have seen and tbh i have a theory that vault tec is just the enclave and there top managment is an enclave high top member and the enclave has been pulling all the strings

[lofty needle]

yee this is what i generally agree with

[coarse grove]

Secret Service. 🇺🇸

[ember swallow]

?

[coarse grove]

The Secret Service is active.

[eager folio]

Also when i hear people say why doesnt the east coast BoS use the T-51 in the east coast
Here 3 major answer why they wont
1: Hard to maintain
2: They have way more numbers than they have power armor in supply Hence the use of combat armor in fallout 4
3: Just not worth using overall

[coarse grove]

As of Fallout 76, there's a remnant of them alive, also confirmed that they were growing their numbers.

[ember swallow]

elaborate i know most make up there military yes and there are some in 76 but what else are you referring too

[coarse grove]

Yeah this was my understanding, too. You're better at PA lore than I am. lmao

[eager folio]

I was once a BoS fanboy and power armor and real life military go hand to hand

[coarse grove]

Bethesda brought back the Secret Service to confirm that there would still be an active cell of the Enclave left.

[pastel hatch]

So was I. We all made mistakes back then

/j

[ember swallow]

was there other enclave shown besides the research center ?

[eager folio]

Aye
We just need to fix Ajax

[coarse grove]

The Secret Service operates as an extension of the Enclave.

[coarse grove]

FIX ME?

[ember swallow]

youve lost me are you just stating facts or what

[eager folio]

Yes
Sit down
@pastel hatch
Bring how the drill

[coarse grove]

Wha

[pastel hatch]

Yes. We will convert you to a non-Brotherhood role.

[coarse grove]

am i being interrogated now

is this my indoctrination

[eager folio]

Yes
You are in a maximus moment

[coarse grove]

[ember swallow]

but also it shows in fallout 4 there is a good size force in fallout 4 too

[pastel hatch]

Join the Enclave, mothafucka

[eager folio]

Or we will insert this brain chip

[ember swallow]

not just what we see there is a larger base that they communicate too

[coarse grove]

Oh and here I thought you were gonna say something outlandish like join the NCR.

[lofty needle]

is the CC stuff canon?

[pastel hatch]

I just flipped a coin and it said Enclave

So I’m on my Enclave side rn

[coarse grove]

LMAO Fair enough.

[normal veldt]

So you probably agree with the "Hank is an Enclave agent" theory then?
My only problem with the Enclave so far is... What's up with their turrets? How did they manage to miss that guy and the dog?!

[ember swallow]

just the enclave as it installs right away and you cant remove

[eager folio]

He is a true gabling man

[ember swallow]

well yes but i dont think he knows it i think he thinks he works for vault tec

[pastel hatch]

Seeing some controversy on how the Legion would deal with the East Coast Brotherhood apparently.

[eager folio]

Lets see

They die

[weary sorrel]

Perhaps Wilzig’s escape was actually all according to the Enclave’s plan?

[coarse grove]

In truth, I'd argue I do like the BoS, NCR, and Enclave equally.
I just don't diehard for either or.

[coarse grove]

The Legion? against liberty PRIME?

[ember swallow]

This is fallout 4 enclave terminal

[eager folio]

Its actually a refrence in fallout 4

[coarse grove]

I don't even think the Legion has seen an airship in their fucking life.

[eager folio]

The turrent you make just fucking miss everything

[coarse grove]

They'd think Mars decided to chuck the earth or something.

[pastel hatch]

Some NV fanboy is going nuts because the Brotherhood….flips notes flew a Vertibird over Legion territory without being opposed.

[coarse grove]

LMAO

[ember swallow]

now it says the feild HQ is South east of the sector thats the office building there based out of and thats on the far west in the glowing sea

[coarse grove]

"By Caesar, what was that?!"

[eager folio]

Hmm
Well lets see
Some NV fanboy is going nuts when # flips book # legion has guns and doesnt rape lucy

[coarse grove]

This tickles me, cause I just imagine the legion spearchucking at a vertibird

[pastel hatch]

The NCR literally flew a Vertibird next to the Fortification Hill on Hoover Dam. I think they’d at least know what it looks like

[eager folio]

That was like 15 years ago

[coarse grove]

I was gonna say! Long time ago! Assuming those ones from then are even alive!

[pastel hatch]

I’d imagine there’d be a few veterans from the Second Battle of Hoover Dam

[coarse grove]

You might be right, I won't lie im not a legion fanboy

but

the Brothers Leading the legion is a nice story beat

I do wanna know more about it

[eager folio]

Fuck the legion storyline
I cant wait for lucy to kill somebody

[pastel hatch]

But yes, the East Coast Brotherhood would bodyslam the Legion. Especially because this version is weakened.

And I for one would be clapping at such a scene.

[eager folio]

I think every faction beside the NCR at full power will get beaten by the East Coast Broterhood

[lofty needle]

wait has lucy actually killed anyone yet

[coarse grove]

BoS Eastern Heartland agenda.

[eager folio]

Ghouls yes
Human nope

[pastel hatch]

Like an actually human being? No.

[coarse grove]

she's about to

[lofty needle]

oh dam, i guess her shooting those khans in the foot really was a big step

[lofty needle]

who

[eager folio]

Aye the legion of course

Because there aint no way she gonna be postive on that faction

[coarse grove]

The legion killed the slave she rescued

waste of a stimpak

someone's gotta die for that

[pastel hatch]

I’m sort of disappointed the show didn’t go the route of this video.

https://youtu.be/rVX3Hq9XA5M?si=nnWP48pIXhE_k0fm

Basically the NCR makes Vegas its new capital and faces off against the combined forces of the Brotherhood.

I made this a prediction months before the official teaser released for the show.

[eager folio]

The NCR make vegas its capital
Smh
That mean NCR canon ending
I WANT THIS FACTION TO BE CANON

NV fans

[coarse grove]

If only, man

[pastel hatch]

But of course, Bethesda had to go the complicated route and make everything this smoke and mirrors bullshit.

[coarse grove]

I hope the west falls, but i do want the East to at least try to mend things with the NCR

[coarse grove]

"fog of war" =/= we're not committing to nuffin

[pastel hatch]

I think the show has done enough to shit on the West Coast

[coarse grove]

Nah nah

it can do more

i still haven't seen'em fight each other yet

[pastel hatch]

No, I think it should be moved elsewhere

[pastel hatch]

Who? The West Coast vs East? It’d be a stomp in favor of East Coast Brotherhood.

[eager folio]

Hmm
But i want new vegas to be dramatic babies
I want the west to fall beyond repair

[lofty needle]

im kind of interested what happens to the east coast now since it seems pretty clear bos just control it and i dont see it collapsing anytime soon

[coarse grove]

The West, I need to see the morons behave like raiders some more so I can see whose left standing.

[lofty needle]

idk where u go from here with the east

[eager folio]

Hmm
Fuck
Nuke east coast
RESET THE STORYLINE

[lofty needle]

yeah i hear someones wife died in diamond city guys

[pastel hatch]

REBOOT REBOOT REBOOT. RETCONS EVERYWHERE.

[eager folio]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-top-gear-jeremy-clarkson-no-one-cares-gif-18925814

[pastel hatch]

MIDWEST BROTHERHOOD IS NOW THE ONLY CANONICAL VERSION OF THE BROTHERHOOD.

[eager folio]

@coarse grove @pastel hatch
I got the best joke when lucy killed someone

[ember swallow]

east coast is more like the enclave they mustve adapted there ideals after defeating raven rock and thats why i like the east coast

[eager folio]

Normal TV watchers who hasnt played the games:
Oh god, lucy had to kill someone. Oh that bad but she had to what neccessary. Ah i hope she doesnt start actively kill everything and only resort it as a final measure. I mean this caesar legion fellas are bad people, it can be a one time exception.

Fallout fans watching the show:
FUCK YEAH, SHE KILLING THINGS YEAH! LETS GO COMMIT A GENOCIDE ON THOSE FUCKING LEGION! COME ON LUCY YOU CAN DO IT ! WOO HOO GET THE NUKA COLA WE PARTY TONIGHT ON HER FIRST KILL!

[twin mango]

Crazy amount of discussion in here. When I go to sleep i try to go back when I wake up. Cant backtrack enough hahha

[pastel hatch]

Brotherhood fans when I tell that they’re Enclave fans in return:

[ember swallow]

lmao indeed they just dont know it yet😏

[pastel hatch]

If it means more Enclave fans, I’ll gladly accept it

[twin mango]

How much nuka cola has been drunk on the show so far

[coarse grove]

enclave is playing possum, to some extent.

[ember swallow]

i think on purpose

[twin mango]

Where's there hq post dc?

[pastel hatch]

Enclave Moon Base Theory and Frank Horrigan cloning facilities 🤞

[lofty needle]

unknown

[ember swallow]

there is a large dark force at play like we have never seen

[lofty needle]

fallout 1 and 2 had such iconic "bosses"

[twin mango]

I didn't play 1 or 2

[coarse grove]

They have no HQ in DC, they've moved.

[normal veldt]

Shady Sands in s2 actually looked quite similar to the one shown in this movie
Also somehow the BoS has been infiltrated by Enclave spies (probably plotting to take on both the NCR and the BoS while they're busy fighting each other)

[twin mango]

Thinking about it

[lofty needle]

fallout 1 has this guy called the master, and fallout 2 has someone called frank horrigan; both have such just unique designs

[pastel hatch]

No it didn’t imo. It looks like some suburban neighborhood in New England instead of the core of NCR territory and development.

[coarse grove]

In terms of factions in the East btw - it depends on what you qualify as a 'force' the issue is that Appalachia has a decent amount of Factions at play, but they're not big enough to contest the East so it's kind of moot, maybe. Unless they managed to wipe out the Chapter present there, but it's genuinely uncertain.

[weary sorrel]

Considering they’ve been beaten black and blue twice thus far, it makes sense for the Enclave to rethink their plans. Wouldn’t be surprised if they had a hand in the Divide blowing up somehow.

[twin mango]

Whats the time jump from fo2 to s2 of the show?

[coarse grove]

Taking a more shadowy approach.

[pastel hatch]

Well, The Enclave have a base in Chicago, so who knows

[ember swallow]

like 100

[eager folio]

Problem
Appalachia factions exist before even fallout 1
Who to say they exist after fallout 4?

[coarse grove]

very long

[normal veldt]

You mean they recycled the ideas for the pre-war stuff from fo4?

[coarse grove]

Yeah that's also my point. The only thing we can that would survive is the Cryptids, maybe. Since Uhh, well they are what they are.

[twin mango]

Is 76 worth playing for the story?

[coarse grove]

The only people that can mildly rival the East would be the Reclaimers(76ers), if they're even still active. Which is wishful thinking at best

[ember swallow]

i think so but the game is very grind

[weary sorrel]

Would be an awkward thing if it turns out sometime down the line in the show that our actions in 76 basically set up the Enclave’s resurrection down the line.

[coarse grove]

I think it is, story is great - grind is a bit much though sometimes

[coarse grove]

:)

[ember swallow]

and there is like 2-3 main stories

[pastel hatch]

No, I mean it looked too small and empty.

[twin mango]

Grind to unlock story or grind to fight end game?

[ember swallow]

possibly more

[coarse grove]

I would welcome it because when you think about it, the 76ers ARE ACTUAL CHAOS infuckingcarnate.

They drop nukes for fun.

They're all wildcards, but seemingly come together for their own common goal.

[ember swallow]

oh nvm i was wrong its exactly 55 years between fo2 and tv show

[normal veldt]

It's a downgrade from fo2 iirc
No walls or checkpoints
I'm not sure what happened

[coarse grove]

And then they're also described as the best, brightest, and strongest the pre-war had to offer.

[twin mango]

Why was it called shady sands

Where's the shade

Hahah

[coarse grove]

cause the sands were shady

[ember swallow]

yes in fo4 the new dlc cc it has mention of 76 and there still nuking there in fallout 4

[coarse grove]

lmao what there's no way

show me this

[ember swallow]

one sec

[coarse grove]

if the 76ers are still nuking appalachia omfg

[twin mango]

They were Eminem fans @coarse grove

[coarse grove]

i would fucking die

[pastel hatch]

I think the showrunners were up to something having the town be moved to be in the shadow of a metropolitan area.

[coarse grove]

that's hilarious

[ember swallow]

bethesda added a new dlc

[coarse grove]

show me

[ember swallow]

its the deathclaw hunter guy

[coarse grove]

i need to see it

[ember swallow]

it s voice recording ill find vid

[coarse grove]

send it to me in DMs so you don't get muted or anything

[ember swallow]

and yes bethesda made it (canon)

[pastel hatch]

Bro is a whole month late

[coarse grove]

I haven't touched CC's to be fair

I live in my own modded bubble

[pastel hatch]

Fair

[ember swallow]

https://youtu.be/t5ICsQbmOK0?si=9mq5J925zsHrgGfY this vid it shows the whole dlc ill find the time it shows it

[weary sorrel]

If anything, Appalachia would also be a good way to nerf the East Coast Brotherhood too if it’s necessary sometime on the show; lob nukes at DC and/or Boston, followed by an all out Enclave assault.

[coarse grove]

Yeah if they're canon then the 76ers would be the main contestants of the East.

holy shit how many years has it been since 76's vault opened

it was 25 years after the bombs dropped

[lofty needle]

tbf if the scale of the current fallout universe gets too big they could just give the factions nukes and have another nuclear war to reset the world and hammer home the war never changes thing

[ember swallow]

in game the year is 2105

[weary sorrel]

If the NCR can get nuked, surely the vaunted East Coast chapter can take a nuke or two too.

[pastel hatch]

So…a reboot.

[lofty needle]

pretty much lol its a nice in-universe way to do a reboot

[eager folio]

The rest of world
We will build for a better tommorow
Somewhere in west virgina
A second great war happened cause someone killed the person dog

[coarse grove]

LMAO

[lofty needle]

wouldnt it be harder to nuke them though, airships an all

[pastel hatch]

NV fans get to strike back at Todd, finally

[coarse grove]

No they'd have experienced against arieal targets

scorchbeasts

[ember swallow]

found it