EPISODE 2

[coarse grove]

His legitimacy is derived from his actions, not the Codex.
I'm not saying Maxson cannot squash them. I'm saying he won't because it's not in his character. Like I said, we fundamentally disagree on who Maxson is as a character.

[fallen wagon]

the BoS's maxim drives his actions, so this is a moot point

he isnt an independent guy who just hates machines.

[coarse grove]

For Maxson to be the way you're describing, he will have to have such a disregard his entire feelings and emotions on how it's structured. Especially like I said, he's the only character shown in lore to understand them traditionally, and fundamentally more than anyone else.

If Maxson was just some guy, who didn't really liked the Brotherhood, and managed to get into power - I would agree with what you're saying, but it's the opposite. He cares deeply, and respects it's system and structures, as well as he's confirmed to be a visionary for it's growth. And for ALL of this, he needs the Council's support. It's not gonna be something he tosses away, or tramples on.

And all this is still assuming you're even correct on your headcanon of the Elders in the show being the Council, which is not only not confirmed, but lofty assumption at best with no evidence other than "These are the elders that showed up"

[torpid cargo]

What exactly does he need the councils support with? The east was doing quite okay even after being cut off.

Maxson would be able to achieve all of his goals, whether he was compliant or not.

[coarse grove]

Any decision involving the Brotherhood's structure is voted on.

Like I said, the Clerics? He would need the Council support to bring in a new rank like the Clerics.

It would be put to a vote.

[torpid cargo]

I don’t understand this logic. Why would the east care at all about the council? Lyons already had disconnected the DC chapter from the west.
Any decisions Maxson would want, he could do without their approval. Recruiting, acquiring technology, changing the structure of his own chapter.

[fallen wagon]

youre arguing that his legitimacy doesnt come from the codex but if that was really the case he wouldnt be annexing willing chapters? and again there is no actual mention of the council of elders in the op you quoted, just elders. even if you assume that's just the writers omitting the nuance for some reason it wouldnt make sense that the writers fail to mention the council of elders explicitly if the writing was concerned about it. truth is they most likely werent.

[coarse grove]

Lyons disconnected with them because he wanted to stay in the pentagon, and they refused. He told them to go fuck themselves, basically.
The East cares about the Council because albeit the Council is from the West, they still operate with the entire Brotherhood in mind. The Council isn't necessarily EAST or WEST aligned.

Maxson cares because

1. He needed their approval to become High Elder.
2. Violating the Council or trampling on them is probably the worst infraction you can do against the Codex.
3. The Council operates for the entire Brotherhood, not just the West, or East - but both sides.

[coarse grove]

That was after he became High Elder with their approval did he start annexing Chapters, which is within his authority to do so.

[fallen wagon]

i also havent said he's hostile towards the council. if anything his power comes from his dogmatism and military might and his personality. the adherence to codex is just a part of his legitimacy.

its the council that should be worried, not maxson. commonwealth bos is basically a superpower growing far outside the range of the council.

[tired yew]

The council of elders being a distinct entity from the elders collectively is also pretty perplexing given that we haven't seen or heard about them from any other chapter

Just all very confusing stuff given the lack of illumination on the topic

[torpid cargo]

This just seems like bad writing.
A high council of elders who have control over all the brotherhood in the country? Despite it being over 200 years, and each chapter basically being isolated and doing whatever the fuck they want with seemingly no repercussions.

[fallen wagon]

its because they are only mentioned in FO1 iirc, beyond that they are just an assumption. that's why i'm assuming that there would be extreme friction between maxson and the council, with maxson giving them token respect so that he can do whatever he wants, and the council not being in any power to oppose him even if they wanted to. they could try to demote him but then you'd just have a massive rebel faction that's superior to you in every possible way.

[tired yew]

It's really, really old lore

Like before there were other chapters of the brotherhood old

[fallen wagon]

yeah it's outdated lore as far as im concerned, and maxson is the de facto supreme leader of the BoS, with "a council" on the west coast existing in token capacity.

[tired yew]

Hypothetically if there is a distinct council Maxson would probably abide by/respect it because ultimately he is very strongly principled about how he conducts himself and the brotherhood

[torpid cargo]

If they wrote it as the high council being a bunch of delusional geezers in Lost Hills, who think they still have control over their faction I’d believe it more.

[tired yew]

How lost hills in particular would even still be operational is a whole different beast

[coarse grove]

This, like I said. Even if you acknowledge or don't acknowledge the Council - for you to assume Maxson is power hungry, you have to disreagrd his entire lore on being a principled character. Lol

He wants to expand yes, but he would listen to the council, still if it exists.

[tired yew]

Which is kind of part of the problem tbh

[weary sorrel]

And honestly, Maxson has the 'the mountains are high and the emperor is far away' effect; let's say Lost Hills/the Council of Elders decide to throw him out on his keister and strip him of his Elder status. How exactly would they enforce that beyond sending an airship coast to coast, something that comes with its own bevy of risks.

[tired yew]

He has a pretty progressive view of the brotherhood and the brotherhood in the show has started doing things he would never remotely tolerate

[torpid cargo]

Yeah that’s what I thought. They just cut off Lyons when he did his thing. Not even bothering to send another expedition to replace him.

[coarse grove]

If Maxson's character is to believed, he not only would give up power on principle alone, but he'd support their decision whatever it may be. Like I said, you would have to disregard his character and how he's written to assume he wouldn't follow their orders/decisions.

[torpid cargo]

Also save for a few Outcasts, and those scribes/paladins who made the original journey across the country, there’s almost no one in the east coast brotherhood who has even seen, or spoken to directly anyone from the west. They’re all new recruits.

[coarse grove]

But Lyons also struggled, and it's because they abandoned him. They expected him to die, tbh and he would have if the events of FO3 didn't happen and the LW didn't get involved.

[tired yew]

At the same time the 'other elders' of the brotherhood during fallout 4 are reportedly very happy to abide by his leadership (I took this to mean that he had widespread support across all networked chapters but idk)

The previous high elders in 1 take on an almost mediatorial role compared to him

[torpid cargo]

Well either way, the Council have enough on their plate dealing with the absolute barbarians they call Chapters in the West.

[fallen wagon]

hes power hungry. if he wasnt he wouldnt be trying to assimilate other chapters to his own. contrast him as an elder to other BoS elders we know of, and none of them really exhibit the same quality of needing to expand

[tired yew]

Assimilating other chapters relates to strategic doctrine

[weary sorrel]

I do wonder whether the Brotherhood will eventually debate whether to just cut their losses in the West and fully embrace the East Coast as the new Brotherhood heartland.

[coarse grove]

You and I will never see eye to eye, like I said we just fundamentally disagree on his character. You either didn't pay attention, or just assuming bad intent. I can't tell which personally.

[coarse grove]

I think this is Todd and Emil's goal.

[tired yew]

He's not motivated by a desire to set himself up as the Lord commander of the eastern seaboard, he's just aiming to strengthen the brotherhood's position and operations in the east

[coarse grove]

Nothing Maxson has done screams EGO, it screams PRINCIPLE which is fundamentally different. He's done everything to ascend by the book, he didn't try to subvert it . He earned it .
And it's stated that he cares deeply about the Brotherhood.

[fallen wagon]

im not sure what that means, but it does undercut and bypass the chain of command if we assume there is still a council and a high elder

[tired yew]

He is the high elder in question

[coarse grove]

It does not if he's High Elder - him being High Elder gives him the authority, he's the High Elder in question.

[fallen wagon]

you cannot with a straight face tell me annexing surrounding bos isnt being power hungry

[tired yew]

Reorganizing and consolidating assets doesn't indicate much of anything

[fallen wagon]

where are you getting that hes high elder

[coarse grove]

What

[tired yew]

He was declared the supreme leader of the brotherhood

[coarse grove]

That is his postion of the Brotherhood, APPROVED by the Council of Elders.

[tired yew]

This is like the third thing you're told about him

[fallen wagon]

by who lol

[coarse grove]

He cannot be Supreme Commander otherwise. You are told this in-game.

[tired yew]

Brotherhood guys

Danse or one of Maxson's underlings

[coarse grove]

And he's listed as High Elder on the wiki

and Supreme Commander AS his role.

???

[torpid cargo]

Maxson battle coat screams ego every time I steal it from him tbh

[fallen wagon]

if hes high elder that means theres 0 point in even debating the council of elders

[coarse grove]

It has aura, let's be honest.

[torpid cargo]

Homie is too good to wear the classic elder robes

[coarse grove]

[tired yew]

The council of elders is only relevant because it implies there's a higher power structure than individual elders which would have some implications for several games

Personally I would've assumed the council would've just expanded and decentralized when elders started running operations individually but they've never clarified so

[coarse grove]

And Maxson cannot ascend to High Elder - without their approval, hence why I said several times before.
Him BEING a High Elder puts him on the Council.

[fallen wagon]

???

[coarse grove]

He has to be there to be the mediator.

My brother in christ.

You just wanna be right.

[tired yew]

Notice how maximus is called a knight but literally every single other knight in the brotherhood in season 2 is entirely subservient to him

The brotherhood doesn't necessarily change titles within one rank group

[cold jetty]

Aaron said he’s the highest ranking knight

[fallen wagon]

what wiki are you talking about that labels him as high elder

[tired yew]

Yeah he's presumably a head knight which is my point

[torpid cargo]

Man they really really got fucked at the observatory lmao.

[fallen wagon]

genuinely where are you getting this.

[cold jetty]

A season 2 review called him the head knight

[tired yew]

The formal honorific doesn't change except for major promotions like knight to paladin to star paladin

[torpid cargo]

Honestly those titles mean nothing if they have to promote due to everyone being dead.

[fallen wagon]

thats the original intention of the council. my assumption still is that the council exists but in name only.

[tired yew]

Probably the part on literally the wiki you are looking at which refers to his role in 4 as supreme leader

The brotherhood's only supreme leader role is high elder which matches up with his title as well

[coarse grove]

I would like to see him get promoted to a Paladin.

[fallen wagon]

supreme commander is a military rank, its not the same as high elder.

[tired yew]

I want to know why quintus apparently can't promote people to paladin

[fallen wagon]

at least im pretty sure

[tired yew]

The brotherhood is a paramilitary

[coarse grove]

Literally read the rest of his wiki, I'm not gonna nitpick everything down to his ranking, my guy. Supreme Commander only fits one person of the Brotherhood, the High Elder - and he couldn't have gotten said position without proper support. I don't want to keep repeating this so this'll be the last time.

[coarse grove]

I don't know if he can't or won't.

Cause like, surely SURELY there's gotta be more than just knights.

[fallen wagon]

considering how careful todd and emil are with the OG lore i really doubt they would just make him high elder as well.

[coarse grove]

I know we've only seen Knights, but I cannot imagine not even one paladin.

[tired yew]

Notably the wiki doesn't log Arthur with the other high elders although this is probably because the term isn't used ingame

[coarse grove]

This is what I think too, but his role, and everything else he suggests says otherwise. Which again, is strange.

[torpid cargo]

None of the knights we’ve seen except Maximus are worthy of being Paladins lol

[tired yew]

He would if he could, it would give knights something to actually work towards instead of y'know bumbling around unseriously

[coarse grove]

I still can't believe these fuckers were playing with a plasma grenade...

[coarse grove]

I agree, it's why im hoping he gets promoted.

[tired yew]

It would also allow him to actually put maximus in a more respected role for being a commander

[fallen wagon]

so you are both saying that he invented a brotherhood high elder title instead of just using the actual title?

for what reason lol

[tired yew]

The title has existed since fallout 1

It just hasn't been referenced since fallout 1 either

[torpid cargo]

Tho I don’t even get why Maximus would be fast tracked like that. He was just a squire less than a week ago lmao. The titles and ranks are so bullshit

[coarse grove]

It's not necessarily fast tracked. I feel like he'd be the only one to earn it, no?

[tired yew]

They seem to be deliberately avoiding mentioning the council or really anything about the fallout 1 structure of elders

[fallen wagon]

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel_ranks doesnt look like so.

supreme commander is just a fancy way of saying "hes a fancy lad"

[tired yew]

Quintus can manipulate him and he found a mcguffin

[coarse grove]

I agree, which is why I do believe Magnus might've been right, I do think they've gotten restructured into something else entirely.

[errant bobcat]

he got most of the credit for acquiring the cold fusion, his friend practically heaped it onto him at the end of season 1

[coarse grove]

But that's a whole messy thing.

[tired yew]

High elder has existed since fallout 1, 'supreme leader' hasn't and seems to be more informal given that it breaks from every other naming convention the brotherhood has ever used

[fallen wagon]

im trying to. still cant find any supporting evidence that he is the head of the council of elders, or that supreme commander equals high elder. in fact the title of supreme commander only comes up with reference to fallout 4

[coarse grove]

It's like M4 has said, a lot of it hasn't come up since Fallout 1, it could be seen as an oversight, but everything Maxson has done action wise, supports the actions of a High Elder, in support of a council. Cause it's what Roger Maxson and others exactly did.

[fallen wagon]

no, i was talking about "supreme commander" which has NOT existed since fo1, why would he choose to use that title instead of the actual title

[tired yew]

This just lists Arthur under the normal elder category when his authority and resources far outstrip those of any other elder we've seen

[coarse grove]

But I'm arguing it's a deliberate change by Emil and Todd, to change the heartland of the Brotherhood to the East.

[fallen wagon]

both of you are just insisting that he is high elder with no actual factual basis lol, really weird behavior imo

[tired yew]

Note the "probably informal" section of what I just said

Bare minimum he isn't a normal elder

[fallen wagon]

roger maxson was nothing like arthur maxson, he was an altruist who wanted to genuinely help and not be a quasi religious tech cult

[tired yew]

Maxson is also an altruist he's just more outwardly militant

[coarse grove]

Again I asked before, what do you genuinely know of his character? Did you read his accomplishments or are we just not acknowledging information given to us by other characters, I don't understand. lol

His accomplishments, behavior, everything about him screams that he's not a normal Elder. Has far larger resources. Has been given the authority to absorb other chapters. Has been in contact with the West, has support from this - all of it screams High Elder without the 'formal' title. I'm looking at Maxson's actions and using that as context clues for justification as to why he is the way he is.

[fallen wagon]

literally isn't, considering his recquisitioning policy

[tired yew]

Note that Arthur apparently made a point of suppressing religious elements of west coast chapters some time before 4

Arthur is not a quasi religious figure if he has any say in the matter whatsoever

[fallen wagon]

you tried to multiple times quote the wiki and claim he's the high elder when he really isn't, it's just your headcanon.

[coarse grove]

I like how you didn't acknowledge a word I said. Good talk.

[fallen wagon]

i'm just trying to avoid us talking past each other, since we got off the track a ways back

[tired yew]

It could just come down to the council structure being antiquated in the mind of Bethesda so they've instead adopted some vaguely defined other system of hierarchy between elders

[coarse grove]

Anyway, Yeah he did get the cold fusion credit. He's pretty much a hero at this point - for the Chapter

[fallen wagon]

im just fighting your argument that hes the high elder. because if he is then that removes the whole power dynamic that he would figuritively have between the council and his commonwealth bos

[coarse grove]

it's something I'm wondering if Xander will recognize and that's why Xander takes him under his wing.

[tired yew]

There is no such power dynamic

Ingame Maxson has the full support of the entire brotherhood including the western chapters

[fallen wagon]

yeah, assuming he is the high elder.

[tired yew]

No, in canon, he has no major dissenters in the brotherhood

[fallen wagon]

with which, i disagree wholeheartedly until there is official canon.

making arthur the high elder would basically invalidate the existence of every other bos faction

even if he is IMO de facto the high elder

[tired yew]

If Xander's role is indeed to sow discord then Maximus is a great target and asset

[torpid cargo]

Love how he goes from having the full support, to a major plot point in the show being “fuck the east”
Great writing Bethesda

[fallen wagon]

lol

[tired yew]

Which is kind of what happened

[tired yew]

This is why I think he's dead

[coarse grove]

I would agree. I know he's described as suave, charismatic, and the like - so it makes me wonder if that's why Xander specifically was sent.

[tired yew]

Xander also seems alarmingly unfazed by maximus kinda just killing a guy (without context)

[coarse grove]

But I imagine how far Charisma and Speech can take him, in the situation - we know the outcome, but the context is what I'd like to see.

[coarse grove]

It LOOKED like approval.

I could be wrong

it LOOKED like approval to me. Lol

[torpid cargo]

Buncha meatheads

[tired yew]

It seems they also have more battlecoats now

[coarse grove]

Battlecoats, Paladin standard issue? WE love to see it.

[tired yew]

This third variation seems a bit different from the elder battlecoat and is longer than the bomber jacket so I guess maxson's fashion caught on

[errant bobcat]

that expresion was pretty much saying "not bad kid"

[coarse grove]

Probably. I am excited to see them interact.

[weary sorrel]

Perhaps Xander ends up being like a pseudo-mentor for Maximus?

[coarse grove]

That's what a reviewer said, in one of the pictures Magnus posted.

[torpid cargo]

Oh then they kill him off just for his character development

[coarse grove]

Xander is supposed to be like a character that sets Maximus in the right direction for the Brotherhood.

[errant bobcat]

good thing Quintus and the other chapters already basically did half of the work for him lol

[coarse grove]

Yeah, but seemingly, something happens where Maximus and Xander escape together. So we have to wonder what occurred.

[errant bobcat]

im gonna guess Quintus ends up accusing them of conspiring against him and locks them up

[coarse grove]

It could be, but like we know all 4 western Chapters turn on each other from the trailers

now initially last week we thought it was the Commonwealth showing up, but it's not. The Chapters start fighting each other.

With one of them losing their airship in the battle.

Which is crazy to think.

[torpid cargo]

Let them kill each other, then the real story can begin in season 3

[weary sorrel]

Sounds like that'd strangle this civil war in the crib before it even remotely could get off the ground.

[fallen wagon]

maximus will obviously turn on the rebel chapters, probably bunch of the side characters die in the process

[tired yew]

Perhaps

[errant bobcat]

hurts to see such a big piece of tech go to waste too

[tired yew]

But area 51 is a pretty robust facility as well

[coarse grove]

In the hands of idiots, it was already a waste.

[tired yew]

Quintus is right about them having solid ground to start fighting people

[weary sorrel]

Might as well be destroyed if it's going to be controlled by upjumped Raiders in power armor.

[coarse grove]

It might be, but that could've been Xander's intention, though, for his arrival. We dunno yet.

[coarse grove]

Yeah Area 51 seems untouched by the fighting?

I'll have to rewatch the trailer again.

It would be SO TRAGIC if the airship landed on Area 51

[torpid cargo]

Maxson is a generous man giving them anything to begin with.

[tired yew]

Area 51 as a whole is raising a lot of questions for me

[fallen wagon]

the shows setting quintus up as some quasi elder elijah with god tech. xander will probably get maxson in good standing with arthur

[fallen wagon]

it could be mini-big mt

[coarse grove]

I actually agree.

[errant bobcat]

better than it getting blown up on acicdent by one of Quintus's idiot knights playing football with a mini nuke

[coarse grove]

So we only know Area 51 was a location Bethesda told Obsidian not to touch, but not why.

[tired yew]

Guess it's because they have some existing lore for it

[coarse grove]

Perhaps, but it's not something we've had in-games before, is it?

I don't recall.

[tired yew]

Perhaps another divide type situation where it stayed idle until someone activated

[tired yew]

No

[coarse grove]

True, very true.

[torpid cargo]

So it could be wasted as a gag looting scene and backdrop for their infighting plot /s

[tired yew]

Quintus' chapter has no energy weapons besides the, uh, alien guns they're fucking with

[weary sorrel]

Whoever's making the recruitment standards out West are freebasing Jet at this point; the old ways of isolationist rare recruitment were bad, but holy crap this is almost worse in a way.

[tired yew]

So I hope we see them again for consistency's sake

[coarse grove]

It has more implications, I'd like to assume.
I guess for me, given they needed a Key - and it has a bunch of familiar Wasteland tech to protagonists of previous games, but not wider Wasteland suggests it was definitely a ground for high technology.

As M4 said, Quintus's chapter doesn't have an abundance or much of energy weapons either. Then there's the stockpile of Fusion Cores.

Or seemingly infinite? Quintus implied there was infinite.

[tired yew]

Given the presence of aliens there area 51 was probably like a repconn blacksite or something

[tired yew]

He's talking about cold fusion

They're somehow 'making' fusion cores with it

[errant bobcat]

honestly a 50/50 they either get competent young lads like Max, Thaddeus and Dane

or people like Titus

[coarse grove]

It's just random wastelanders, the issue is they're not properly trained.

[torpid cargo]

Calling Thad competent is a little funny

[tired yew]

There seems to be a lot of Titus type knights and a lot of Thaddeus type squires

[errant bobcat]

he was pretty competent as a squire

[weary sorrel]

Every time the Brotherhood recruits a new Initiate, the gods flip a cap.

[tired yew]

He actually is a really good squire lol

[errant bobcat]

he knew the procedures well and had Max's back while fighting

[coarse grove]

Thad was a decent squire tbh, he was pretty capable until he blew his foot off, even then his fatal mistake was trusting a quack doc, but it was either that or lose the foot.

[errant bobcat]

he could use some mroe range training but otherwise i think personally hes got the makings of a knight

[fallen wagon]

personally i hope all of quintus' bos gets wiped out just for abusing their PA for fun

[torpid cargo]

Yeah, but he also accepted medicine from some wasteland junky. Dude has his training but 0 common sense

[coarse grove]

Yeah. lol

[tired yew]

I mean what else was he gonna do

[errant bobcat]

he was likely going to die anyway so mgith as well try every other option

and now hes still alive but slowly turning into god knows what lol

[weary sorrel]

Yeah, that felt hilariously stupid; repairing power armor ain't cheap, dagnabit.

[coarse grove]

He was, that wound was gnarly.

[coarse grove]

Hopefully a super mutant.

[tired yew]

I just hope he doesn't die

[coarse grove]

Nah, he's got kids to protect

[torpid cargo]

Well, thank goodness the show isn’t using Stimpacks as this never ending resource everyone has that is a fix it all plot device. Good job writers

[coarse grove]

He shows up in the finale against the Deathclaw?

The march on the strip.

[tired yew]

Somehow he makes contact with maximus again

[coarse grove]

Yeah, i am interested in seeing that.

[tired yew]

How on earth maximus goes from model knight to NCR strongman wandering around with a ghoul and a mutant will be interesting to see

[fallen wagon]

its so weird considering how bethesda coded the adaptation is they dindt try to adapt VATS as a vfx in some form

[tired yew]

To be fair how could they

[torpid cargo]

Vats getting progressively nerfed into the ground since 76.

[fallen wagon]

it would probably get expensive

[torpid cargo]

Lucy how could you miss

[fallen wagon]

i would laugh at the 95% vats hit miss bug being represented

[torpid cargo]

Damn that would have been a perfect opportunity

[coarse grove]

I'm telling you, I'm gonna be waiting to see your reaction if he doesn't join the NCR. 😂

[tired yew]

The armor is fanservice enough so I'll live

[errant bobcat]

by the end of this hes gonna be a Vaultie

[tired yew]

That said he has a pretty solid reason to go for the NCR at this point

[coarse grove]

Fair, i plan on getting it in 76, anyway, and the other games. the FO4 mod actually adds so much more detail.

[errant bobcat]

bro still wants to get his cock exploded

[coarse grove]

American dream inside the vault with lucy.

[torpid cargo]

Will Lucy want to go back to a vault after all she’s learned?

[tired yew]

Lucy going back to vault 33 to discover norm's little fuckin reverse coup

[weary sorrel]

Maybe he ends up defusing a nuke at some point like how his pops very nearly did so if not for that failsafe?

[coarse grove]

She'd have to form Norm.

At least I hope.

[tired yew]

Probably very much so

[coarse grove]

It would be silly of her not to go back

[weary sorrel]

Norm hitting her with the 'You're a hero, and you need to leave' line, maybe?

[coarse grove]

omfg

I'd punch air

lmao

[fallen wagon]

im sad i diddnt see trucks or vertibirds in shady sands

[tired yew]

I have no idea what norm thinks he's gonna do at this point

[torpid cargo]

Hey we got trams. That’s way way better and tells us more

[coarse grove]

his plotline is the ONLY one i don't know how or have an idea of what could happen.

[coarse grove]

Means they fixed the fucking train system.

And people argued up and down it was worthless.

[weary sorrel]

And let's face it, his gaggle of Vault 31 pre-War middle managers wouldn't last a week in the Wasteland with how they were acting.

[errant bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/rimworld-human-leather-hat-human-leather-human-meat-rimworld-dlc-gif-10620259280202256756

[tired yew]

It seems like he might've irreparably blocked access to 31 which could be entirely sufficient for halting the experiment

[fallen wagon]

i have a feeling bud's buds will get blown up by mid contrl chips

[torpid cargo]

Means they got enough stable power for public transportation. Something we struggle with today lol

[tired yew]

The LA power grid is also mostly intact

They just built stuff better before the war ig

[coarse grove]

We still need to get Betty's reaction to what Norm did, as well.

I'm still convinced Betty knew what Hank did.

[tired yew]

Oh yeah she knows

Stephanie probably does too but she's a bit of a wild card rn

[coarse grove]

I don't know what she's gonna do, it also begs the question - with Norm outside, if he just comes back around to the Vault entrance. Will he even be let back in?

or do we think Betty's gonna force him and the Bud's buds to brave the Wasteland.

[tired yew]

They can't really keep him out I don't think

[fallen wagon]

what purpose do the leftover vault dwellers have now? i can only imagine them getting eaten or lucy rallying them for the win

aka. the non norm or vault exec guys

[tired yew]

Betty also forcing them out would be very unpopular

[torpid cargo]

Bud said they can easily cover up his disappearance. And he has no family left to ask about him.

[tired yew]

They're probably just living on rn

[coarse grove]

Yeah but Betty and Steph were in contact with him, i imagine they'd have to wonder - or I could be giving them too much credit on that front, idk.

[tired yew]

There's a designated guardian of the vault doors, so norm would be in contact with the public vault dwellers pretty quickly

[torpid cargo]

How were they in contact if he disabled the inter vault communications?

[coarse grove]

I mean specifically Bud, didn't Norm use the terminals to contact Bud prior to entering that side of the Vault? Was the communication disable after that specifically?

[tired yew]

Yeah

Norm being the little goblin that he is damaged the 31 communication array

[coarse grove]

Then I'd have to assume Betty and Steph's immediate reaction would be asking about Bud. Lol if Bud disabled it, and Norm comes out with all the Bud's then... I can only imagine that might lead to a confrontation.

[tired yew]

Ultimately neither of them can really do anything about it

The secret is out so the entire project is compromised, their options would be to try and cooperate with the 33 vault dwellers or just fall apart

[coarse grove]

Imagine Norm becomes Overseer by the end of it. Lol

[tired yew]

Now that would be something

[torpid cargo]

I feel Betty would make sure someone loyal and quiet was at the entrance, to keep another Lucy event from happening. She also denied Chet from the position probably because he would let someone back in without telling Betty.

[coarse grove]

It makes me wonder if the Vault, if the Water chip get's repaired, has the potential to be like Vault 81.

[tired yew]

Loyal and quiet but not 31

And not 31 means that they're not gonna keep playing ball with her if norm shows up with half a vault

[tired yew]

I'm hoping they just go straight ahead into reclamation day tbh

[torpid cargo]

Isn’t Steph overseeing 31?

[tired yew]

32

Steph and Betty are the only two vault 31 people who are supposed to be active right now besides Hank

[coarse grove]

Was Steph a junior or an actual executive?

[tired yew]

Do we even see her?

Before the war I mean

[coarse grove]

wiki says Junior executive, which implies she's higher than the ones with Norm - since those are just Junior Corporate Employees. But wiki could also be wrong, am not sure

[coarse grove]

no i don't think so

only betty and hank

[tired yew]

They were basically all assistants and administrative aides

Even Hank and Betty

Presumably so was she

[coarse grove]

Oh? I thought Hank's listed specifically an Executive position

on his cryopod

not junior

when Norm looked at it

[tired yew]

He was cooper's wife's assistant

[torpid cargo]

Huh. Well once the lemmings realize Norm is wearing a different numbered jumpsuit from them, and they recognize both Steph and Betty, combined with not wanting to be outside. I think they will turn on Norm

[coarse grove]

Assistant Executive, would put him above Juniors at least. Do we know Betty's rank or was hers shown?

[tired yew]

Idk the deal with the cryopods but all of bud's buds were low level staffers

[tired yew]

Betty was a general secretary I think

[coarse grove]

Dang so her and Hank were the highest ranks in there, interesting

[tired yew]

None of them were more than middle managers tbh

Raises the question of where vault tec's primary facilities actually are

[torpid cargo]

Was the plan for 32 and 33 just to drip feed new overseers from cryosleep every couple of decades, and hope they all kept their mouths shut?

[tired yew]

They know he's from 33, he played it off as him being the corporate superman bud envisioned

32 and 33 were breeding stock for bud to use to selectively breed a group tailored to executive roles

[coarse grove]

Bud said every 30 years, he'd let someone out. And it was to help essentially breed the perfect people Vault tec can use to take over after the fallout settled from the War.

They'd be the best of the best, essentially, but

[tired yew]

Of course that's not actually how genetics work

[torpid cargo]

Oh damn. What a plan

[tired yew]

So the viability of the scheme in the first place is practically dubious

[coarse grove]

Exactly lol

[torpid cargo]

Does this mean anyone before Betty, Steph and Hank are dead?

[tired yew]

Presumably

Half of them were probably sent to 32 and they were all killed, half were probably sent to 33

[coarse grove]

We haven't gotten a definitive answer, but we can presume yes, they are Hank and Betty are the oldest that we've seen. We also dunno if any died in the Raider attack, too, it's kind of unclear.

[tired yew]

It's 219 years so that should mean... What, 7 releases?

[coarse grove]

It would be 7, yeah

[torpid cargo]

1 for each vault right? 14 total.

[tired yew]

Don't know really

Hank is in his 60s right

[coarse grove]

Yeah we don't really have answer, Hank is older so he's been around for a while.

He's mid 50s

If he was frozen for 200 years, like the others - then he's 54

[tired yew]

How long ago was he released anyways

[torpid cargo]

Oh yeah without knowing their pre-war age we can’t really tell how long they’ve been in the vaults for sure.

[coarse grove]

I dunno actually.

[coarse grove]

Yeah, that is the harder part.

[tired yew]

254 - 219 would put him at like 35

[coarse grove]

Like we can guess, but it's hard to exactly pinpoint.

[coarse grove]

Dude aged like fucking hell then. LOL

[torpid cargo]

Long enough for Hank to start a family and have kids.

[tired yew]

Hrm something isn't adding up for that timeline

[coarse grove]

I agree, I dunno.

[tired yew]

Probably just an oversight I guess

[coarse grove]

Because pre-war he looked SUPER young so i imagine like 20s, maybe?

[tired yew]

If he was 35 before the war he should be in his 50s now actually

[torpid cargo]

Man unfrosted and immediately clapped cheeks

[tired yew]

Well 219 years ago he should've been 35 which is just disheartening

[coarse grove]

Yeah, he did lol

[tired yew]

Well into midlife and still an executive assistant

[weary sorrel]

And yet he still did more damage to the NCR than the Enclave, Legion, and maybe the Brotherhood did

[coarse grove]

Well he had access to firepower that could. lol

[torpid cargo]

That’s the funniest shit.

[tired yew]

The actual problem is just the pre war timeline is way too compressed for this to work out

[torpid cargo]

No one in the west had any nukes.

[tired yew]

Cooper calling 35 year old Hank a kid

[empty crane]

fr it feels like everything important happens 5 years before the great war

[coarse grove]

Then where tf did Hank get his then lol

[tired yew]

It seems like it's all within a year or two actually

[coarse grove]

Clearly there had to have been somewhere stashing a nuke.

[tired yew]

I was thinking the divide

[torpid cargo]

Good question, he was a better hide and seek player than the enclave

[coarse grove]

Him BRAVING the divide for a Nuke is crazy. Lol

I don't hate it

but holy shit

[tired yew]

But it also could've been this weird vault he's found

[twin mango]

Wat game is this

[coarse grove]

The communist one?

[tired yew]

No

[empty crane]

probably the ultra secret vault tec facility that was in vegas this whole time

[coarse grove]

Rim World my guy.

[tired yew]

The abandoned facility

[coarse grove]

Ah, yeah, I guess so. But to be stashing that type of firepower in there is still insane, to me.

[tired yew]

This is the biggest red flag about vault tec's plan actually working to me

[empty crane]

typical vault tec shenanigans

[tired yew]

It seems like it had a bit of whatever Hank needs

[empty crane]

you would think house would have destroyed it ages ago

[tired yew]

Nah

[coarse grove]

That's assuming he knew.

Which House makes mistakes.

But who knows why it's still there.

[torpid cargo]

House couldn’t even get access to his own bunker lol

[tired yew]

If he knew he was probably preoccupied or just unwilling to take it off the table in case he had a use for it

[coarse grove]

I was gonna say, House is smart but he struggled with certain things. It would not surprise me, if Vault tec built it under his nose.

[tired yew]

If he didn't know which is plausible enough given that it's apparently been completely inactive besides Hank there's no reason he'd try

[coarse grove]

Yeah, and also, it seems like no one has had access to it, since pre-war

[empty crane]

do you think house approves of hank's actions

no way right?

[coarse grove]

I don't think House cares, tbh

[tired yew]

Yes lol

[coarse grove]

Like the only way he'd care is by Hank nuking Shady Sands - which would be income for him.

And House would be pissed.

[empty crane]

hank just singlehandedly obliterated the ncr cash cow

house's plans are ruined

[tired yew]

Nuking shady sands was a problem for him but whatever Hank is doing now he has no reason to have an issue with

[coarse grove]

I know that's why I said he'd only care in terms of the Nuke specifically, but not because of what Hank did morally, but because it fucked him on the money side.

Also

how the fuck

[torpid cargo]

Yeah for real. A massive chunk of the Mojave’s population and tourism were from the NCR

[coarse grove]

did a deathclaw take OVER the strip

[tired yew]

We'll wait and see on the deathclaw

[empty crane]

mr house had budget cuts

[coarse grove]

All that Shady Sands and NCR money gone

tragic

[torpid cargo]

Also one nuke conveniently stored away? Surely they have more than one down there the story wont address.

[coarse grove]

Yeah that's why I said there's no way it was just one, there's more.

A nuke of that size, at least.

[empty crane]

"I'll have people in orbit by a 100 years"

[tired yew]

Most likely they'll make a point of explaining where he got the nuke

[coarse grove]

To be fair, he was making that statement assuming he had consistent money flow.

But i mean plans get ruined.

[turbid radish]

He’s also a narcissist with a god complex

[coarse grove]

You destroy his source of income, he loses access to his plans, his plans relied on the NCR.

[empty crane]

shows how dependent house was on ncr

[torpid cargo]

Would be ironic if they detonate another to kill him and destroy the facility.

[ember swallow]

so there is debate on canon ending in fo4 well i just relized they confirmed who has in ep 2

[empty crane]

I don't think he'll be very happy when he sees hank again

[coarse grove]

Yeah ofc, he doesn't deny this. lol

House pretty much says it outright that he uses the NCR for their money. That's how everything is funded.

[coarse grove]

Yeah, the BoS steel ending, or the MM / BoS alliance is canon.

Either way, it doesn't matter - the Commonwealth is active.

[empty crane]

and for new vegas it's house even if they're scared to admit it

[ember swallow]

so how did the east caost already know they were thinking about a civil war starting and th paladin showed up youd think a spy but thats not how they operate but they do have one thing

[torpid cargo]

Now if only we could get the NV fans to agree or accept a game ending.

[fallen wagon]

my guess was and still is hank n house work for the enclave. that would also give them access to nukes.

[ember swallow]

P.A.M

[tired yew]

Contact with other chapters

[coarse grove]

I said this before, I think Hank is an Enclave plant, he's too skilled to be some random Vault tec assistant.

He picks up PA and uses it untrained?

Like that?

Has experience with nukes?

[tame current]

I'm still wondering where exactly is the hospital and Legion camp for it to be so green

[coarse grove]

Has access to nukes?

[torpid cargo]

That’s okay, power armor training hasn’t been mandatory for a while now lmfao

[tired yew]

House is his own variable but Hank was probably enclave aligned

When there was still an enclave to align with

[twin mango]

Wats PA?

[empty crane]

any jethead raider can use power armor

[tame current]

Power Armor

[coarse grove]

We don't know, some people believe it's contact with other chapters, I believe Xander was close by and someone snitched on Quintus to the Commonwealth / Xander to let him know what they were planning.

[tired yew]

Power armor training is pseudo canon at best

[empty crane]

if the chosen one can use power armor anyone can

[fallen wagon]

enclave absorbed parts of VT during their inception, it would make sense. as for house, i've been cooking up this idea that he's building them a spaceship.

[tired yew]

I don't think he is

[coarse grove]

idk if i buy into the spaceship, there's no evidence to suggest House cares about the Enclave one bit.

[empty crane]

house is not enclave affiliated

if he was they would have laser cannons of their own

[tired yew]

He's actively going against enclave and vault tec doctrine by protecting Vegas

[coarse grove]

Like the only Enclave connection House has is that they might be using his mind-control device on animals.

[torpid cargo]

With the way the enclave murdered vault dwellers, and how Hank nuked a city started by vault 8. There is no loyalty or grand vault tech plan.

[fallen wagon]

hes working for enclave under a false pretense but as for the pretense idk

[coarse grove]

But if house abandoned the tech, and Vault tech kept it, and the Enclave is working with Vault tech, it makes sense the Enclave would have access to the mind-control tech.

[empty crane]

ncr is vault 15 I think

[coarse grove]

No way, this is such a stretch.

[tired yew]

To be clear, individual vaults aren't really part of vault tec or the enclave

[torpid cargo]

Oh I’m thinking of vault city. You’re right it’s 15.

[tired yew]

Vault 31 is one of the first times we've seen a vault that is actually part of vault tec as an organization

[empty crane]

and vault 0

[tired yew]

Which was presumably decanonized

[coarse grove]

Yeah it was Vault tec corporate - not the actual Vaults, or the Overseers.

[empty crane]

tactics is canon

[tired yew]

Some of tactics is canon

Some of it also isn't
Vault 0 probably isn't

[fallen wagon]

to me house's always seemed sort of dumber than he tries to convey. there's the way he hired people known for betrayals and the overrated opinion he has of himself. obviously that'd be a stretch and i dont think the writers would do it, but thats what im hoping happens. you could always just have him come around and backstab the enclave after he finds out to get back to status quo and not have him be enclave aligned in lore

[tired yew]

His entire plan with Vegas goes against enclave 'wipe the slate clean' doctrine

[coarse grove]

His entire existence goes against everything Vault tec and the Enclave stood for on the sole purpose of his ego and narcissitic personality. And House would never, EVER work under anyone.

His ego, and mental illness make it incapable of it happening.

[tired yew]

There's no scenario he's actually part of the enclave vision

[fallen wagon]

not saying he'd be working for them willfully. there's the board meeting in s1 where you have a shadowy guy that seems kinda obviously like visual flair for enclave pulling the strings

[coarse grove]

Yeah sure, but house isn't even physically there - the body double is just for appearances and information gathering. It's not house committing to anything.

[fallen wagon]

only thing that i have going against it is how the enclave aren't really subtle like that in the actual games

[tired yew]

They have no particular use for him either

Like if he was actually cooperative sure but being who he is it's just a liability

[coarse grove]

House did not agree with Vault tec, he used Vault tec for their resources.
Nor would the Enclave even try to use House, the only think he could offer is Securitrons and money, none of which the Enclave need. They have sentry bots, and the means to disable his securitrons with emps.

[torpid cargo]

I still can’t get over the enclave having a huge. Above ground research facility out in the open in season 1, then completely forgotten about.

[coarse grove]

you say forgotten about - I lowkey think they threw that in our face to tease us with the plot

let me grab the picture hang on

[empty crane]

I swear to god if the enclave wear t60 power armor

[tired yew]

I want them to show us t-51 so bad

[torpid cargo]

If it’s one thing the BoS and NCR can agree on, is wiping them out.

[tired yew]

The only question I have is how the fuck that facility is in California of all places

[torpid cargo]

Yeah there’s no way they’re getting away with that. Asking for an airship to show up at any time.

[coarse grove]

Hopefully in Anchorage.

[fallen wagon]

we dont know the actual status of house in the show atm, we dont even know if the strip is there. also like i said, he'd be building them a spaceship. that was his whole pitch to the courier in FNV

[tired yew]

No it wasn't

[coarse grove]

It was not.

[empty crane]

the show is allergic to good power armor

[tired yew]

House's motivation for the courier is 70% money and 30% the NCR being the worst

[empty crane]

I don't think so since they showed the t45 in the flashback

[empty crane]

also house saved the courier's life

[tired yew]

He also doesn't really have any reason to work with the enclave either

[fallen wagon]

you mean the spaceship part? building spaceship was explicitly a part of his pitch

[coarse grove]

It could be both, we dunno yet. The issue is that T51 was expensive I think, @eager folio talked about this yesterday.

[fierce crystal]

they should have considered that the T51 is sick

[empty crane]

t51 was still pretty widespread

[tired yew]

Having space travel is a late stage ambition as part of his broader plan to reignite civilization

[coarse grove]

Yes but there's actual lore reasons as to why we don't see it often.

[torpid cargo]

Wasn’t T-51 only deployed at the very end of the conflict? Like less than a year before the bombs? Cooper would have been out of the military by then.

[tired yew]

He mentions it as part of a hyperbole filled monologue about how awesome he is

[coarse grove]

It was something like that, @eager folio knows a bit more.

[tired yew]

T-60

[coarse grove]

I just know that Bethesda has been flipping PA lore on it's head a lot recently with new editions and models.

Like the fact T65 is now the confirmed new strongest, but only the Secret Service(Enclave) have access to it.

[empty crane]

it was first deployed at the battle of anchorage

[tired yew]

T-60 was brand new, T-51 was used in Anchorage alongside T-45

[fallen wagon]

i never took it word for word, but that's the tie in to NV, along with a tie in to the original endgame for the enclave tim cain envisioned. although it'd be funny if they went with it considering he's not part of the project

[empty crane]

it saw use in china and canada

t60 was used on the east coast for riot control

[torpid cargo]

Yeah Anchorage is liberated in January 2077. The bombs fall in October. I thought T-51 wasn’t used until the final US offensive.

[tired yew]

Rocket science isn't even his field

[empty crane]

god the fallout timeline is so cramped

[coarse grove]

If they're sticking with Howard Hughes being his inspiration pretty heavily, then Aerospace actually might be. Which would lead some credit to why he acquired RepConn, cause he did have some level of knowledge in Aerospace, I believe. But I could also be wrong.

[tired yew]

Wasn't repconn at the meeting in season 1

[empty crane]

oh true

[coarse grove]

Yes, he still owns RepConn though.

Even though they were at the meeting.

[tired yew]

Hrm

[coarse grove]

House has several big companies under his umbrella, pre-war.

But it's not just for character's sake, it's because House is literally almost a 1 to 1 to Howard Hughes IRL.

[torpid cargo]

I kind of prefer that. Everything kicking off in less than a year would make sense. Liberation of Anchorage, abandoning of the White House. Vault Tech finishing its last projects. The invasion of mainland China.

[tired yew]

It's just too cramped to really work cleanly

[empty crane]

you have to fit in the t60, t65, x-01 and all the other power armors in a years time

also energy weapons are a mess

[torpid cargo]

That’s Bethesdas fault for adding new power armor for no reason, and then trying to replace the enclave power armor.

So unnecessary

[empty crane]

it feels like some of these inventions should be from the 2050's

[coarse grove]

Not replacing, but adding to it. The T65 is specific to Secret Service members and Operatives of that caliber. It's not Enclave default, or standard issue. Bethesda just clarifies that T65 is extremely rare, and extremely powerful to the point where only SS members wore it.

It's not seen outside of that.

so your typical Enclave soldiers wouldn't have T65

[fallen wagon]

neither was it for the scientologists and ghouls. rockets work weird in this IP

[torpid cargo]

I meant more the X-01. As that’s all the enclave wears in the newer games.

[coarse grove]

Ah, fair.

But yeah with the introduction of Hellcat, T65, and a bunch of others Bethesda flipped PA lore on its head a bit.
There's a lot of models and alot of newer information 76 js providing that undoes old lore of PA.

[empty crane]

I think x-01 is a good translation of APA into 3d

the implementation just doesn't make sense lore wise

[torpid cargo]

Props to the Chinese tho for holding back the entire US for 10 years. Even with the T-51.

[coarse grove]

A lot of the newer PAs are difficult - like Union for example, being technically stronger than most other PAs but it's function was for construction.

I don't disagree with a Construction PA being strong, but stronger than X01?

[torpid cargo]

That is pretty funny to point out.

[coarse grove]

I feel like if they want to make the changes, they just need to be a little more functional with the older PA stuff. lol

I don't mind the PA shift from FNV/FO3 to FO4.

[fallen wagon]

i never liked using in game stats as proof of canon power levels. like when people dig up SPECIAL for ceasar and point out he's dumb. same logic applies to weapon/armor stats. at best theyre a suggestion

[empty crane]

bethesda wants to make literally everything construction equipment for some reason

power fists, super sledges, power armor, even the plasma caster

[tame current]

Thing is that, to some degree, these having some application in construction do actually make sense
What dosen't make sense is how construction PA becomes more powerful than military PA lol

[torpid cargo]

Instead of just using actual construction equipment like the Autosaw..

[empty crane]

I think the plasma caster being construction equipment is silly

[tame current]

Notice I said to some degree
I don't know why a simple welder wasn't enough but they definitely decided to have fun

God forbid construction work gets boring and a guy just wants to melt fellow coworkers for a bit

[empty crane]

plasma based construction

[torpid cargo]

I like to think they have materials in fallout that are quite hard/dense and require something hotter than a normal torch to cut

[coarse grove]

Construction equipment in the FO universe is powerful, it's just weird to put it over literal government weaponry.

[coarse grove]

Apparently some stone is even hard to break through, so i imagine plasma would've been used to melt it.

[tame current]

Do you guys notice how they used FALs for some NCR troopers but no ARs?
Like, at least the Fallout 2 callback is kinda good but I miss the ARs

[torpid cargo]

Service rifle no longer in service /j

[coarse grove]

A tragedy

[weary sorrel]

Maybe the Service Rifle was more for the Mojave Campaign troops than the soldiers on the homefront?

[coarse grove]

I'd like to think this was the case because we're missing a lot of other weapons that would be present in California then

[torpid cargo]

Honestly yeah. Kimball seems like the man to dump their best weaponry into the frontier

[tame current]

Still it is good to see California is able to produce a whole range of weapons

Hey btw

Anyone can id whatever black weapon that one trooper next to the mind controlled guy was using?

I wished I had images to show that scene so you could see what I'm talking about

[torpid cargo]

Amazon disabling screenshots for the IOS app pisses me off.

[tame current]

I tried to talk shit about Bezos here and the server silenced me for ten minutes

[torpid cargo]

Lmaooo whaaaaaat

Wild

[tame current]

It wasn't even a mod it was a automatic thing

Literally 1984

[tame current]

How come nobody has posted more images of Shady Sands as we saw it in the internet, actually
No wonder I'm having trouble finding this one scene in specific, when photos of it as a whole seem somehow rare

Eh forget it
Let's just hope for a good samaritan to get what I'm saying and helps us out with it please

[cold jetty]

Her?

[tame current]

First off, you are loved. We love you Magnus.
Second, I think it is the bald guy from the first photo, rather
IIRC there was a shot that was closer

But the guns of all three intrigue me

[heady river]

this is the plot thing that continues to rack my brain

not only are the enclave still around in some form with their own facility, theyre producing supermutants out of that facility

that has to come up again eventually

[tame current]

This last trooper seems to have some sort of SMG, the ranger some Dragunov ig? I have no idea what the other guy has

[brisk saddle]

I miss the fallout 1/2 powerfist, I hope we see it again somewhere, my first playthrough it was my main weapon

[river merlin]

I was kinda disappointed by the Ranger fit, ngl

Seen better cosplays

[runic pier]

Fr

[river merlin]

It looks like a Temu Ranger

[past kernel]

I hope fallout 5 has that fallout 1/2 style roleplay and hardcore elements

[tame current]

It looks better than the one in Season 1
Helmet and gas mask looked totally separate

[river merlin]

It does look better

[river merlin]

Yeah I do hope they learned their lesson from 4 and include better dialogue options and more rpg elements

[river merlin]

You’re right, the helmet looks fine, they still need to work on the coat and the pauldrons though 😐

[empty crane]

I want a marksman carbine but amazon are cowards

[tame current]

Funny thing
They actually seemed to use modified M1 carbines for some soldiers, along with AKs, Hunting Rifles, some Dragunovs, and like, a single Italian smg for some reason lol

The NCR really has weapon production ramped up huh

[tame current]

Eh, might be a taste thing
Either way I'm excited seeing as how there's possibility we are seeing more of the NCR and therefore we are seeing more those troopers and the rangers and stuff

[tame current]

That being said
You would expect at least a single AR

[empty crane]

muh retrofuture

[tame current]

The NCR's aesthetic actually didn't seem to go that way for a change
It is actually just about postwar 1940s without futurism

I kinda love that simplicity

[empty crane]

service rifle was neat

but I don't think they'd allow any AR in the show

it's not retrofuture enough

[tame current]

You could argue the AK isn't either and it still is in the show

Plus AKs seemed to be a whole lot more common in FO1

I just hope they aren't showing AR because of a license thing when literally you could cover all the manufacturing logos and not refer to it as an AR

[past kernel]

Ave true to Caesar

[tame current]

One thing I have to mention that I feel is stupid about the Service Rifle
This is Sawyer lore btw
The wood in them isn't harvested from planted trees or something but it is all made pre-War and it is just scavanged

[coarse grove]

Man, with all these new vegas cut content coming out from the original consoles obsidian used, i wonder if some of this cut content is what Bethesda will use.

[scenic bobcat]

Shows already used vault 24 so they could

[coarse grove]

Maybe, it def means Yes Man's ending is utterly impossible cause he's worse than House

[tame current]

Excuse the dumb question but did they use cut content from New Vegas again this episode?

[coarse grove]

No but there's been a huge leak of Obsidian content. Someone got ahold of their consoles they used during playtesting that were never wiped. And with all the lore bits coming from that cut content, it makes me wonder if that could lend some credence as to certain decisions we see in the show.

Cause the lore implications are wild. lol

[empty crane]

I thought the gun runners made the service rifles tbh

[tame current]

They make the replacement parts and they are responsible for their maintaining
Not necesarily their manufacturing

[sly obsidian]

Contunuing my point from #fallout_tv

[coarse grove]

But no to answer your question, the point wasn't to like the Western Brotherhood. Lol

Most people don't.

It was to showcase how they have fallen, or devolved from the Heartland they used to be.

[sly obsidian]

The problem is that we haven't seen the "proper" Brotherhood in the show yet so there's a chance that this is just how the writers think Brotherhood is supposed to be.

[coarse grove]

Given that it's continuing from Fallout 4, your answer of 'proper' Brotherhood would be Fallout 4's showcase given the show is only 9 years after. Not much has changed aside from the introduction and creation of the Cleric Role/Rank.

[sly obsidian]

The theory that it has been infiltrated by the Legion is probably not true but honestly I'm willing to believe it more with each episode.

They literally have gladiator fights.

[empty crane]

yeah it seems like the east coast is gonna be portrayed as the true brotherhood

[coarse grove]

The show setups the East v. West dynamic, indicating the differences.

[coarse grove]

This.

I promise you Emil and Todd's goal is to turn the East into the New Heartland.

They've been building towards it for years.

[late wedge]

So they can then set FO5 in SF, probably lol

[coarse grove]

More than likely, yeah.

[sly obsidian]

I just don't see how the Brotherhood that we saw in FO1 and New Vegas can devolve into... Well, whatever we see in the show.

[coarse grove]

Very easily when you're isolated. Happens to tribes all the time.

[sly obsidian]

New Vegas has already shown the Brotherhood past its prime and it looked nothing like this.

A bunch of frat bros who play with live grenades and blow up valuable technology for fun.

This is, like, the opposite of what the Brotherhood should be.

And I can't tell if it's intentional or not.

[empty crane]

and they're gonna completely ignore the aesthetic of fallout 2 san francisco in favor of whatever fallout 4 had going on

[coarse grove]

Unfortunately, probably yes.

The Eastern BoS is Todd's baby, lol

[empty crane]

I miss heads on small buildings and weird art deco doors

[coarse grove]

Like the fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, Todd & Emil's vision for the Brotherhood is different than what it is in Fallout 1.
Even in 76, the BoS you see in Appalachia, is more like Fallout 4's - and Fallout 76 takes place BEFORE Fallout 1.

I'm just saying, the writing and direction is very clear.

[sly obsidian]

I mean the Brotherhoods in Fallout 3 and 4 were very different.

The FO3 Brotherhood are more like knights in shining (power) armor and the FO4 Brotherhood is more fascistic and fanatical.

[coarse grove]

Yes but I would argue in 4 and 76 is when they decided on where to go with them.

Especially because 76 rewrites a bit of Roger Maxson's story, and what he did, and how he established more chapters.

[sly obsidian]

They're basically the antagonists of FO4 if you believe that the synths deserve rights.

[coarse grove]

And Roger was actually supposed to be a focal point in 76 but he was cut.

[coarse grove]

A bit too bad the canon ending to FO4 is the BoS ending. lol

[empty crane]

nick valentine got dismantled

[sly obsidian]

Honestly I'd take the Commonwealth Brotherhood over a bunch of yokels in power armor we see in the show.

[coarse grove]

This is very interesting because Arthur, while he hates synths due to principle.
He's very much closer to Elder Lyons that people give him credit for.

Especially because he looked up to Owen Lyons and Sarah.

[coarse grove]

Well the Commonwealth is the East, we probably will only see Xander who is the liasion from there.

I don't expect we'll see the full blown Commonwealth might in the show.

[sly obsidian]

I hope Maxson shows up in his zeppelin with Liberty Prime and obliterates them all.

What do they even contribute to the Wasteland.

At least Maxson had a point about the Insitute being a threat to the Commonwealth.

I went with the Railroad ending in my playthrough but even that ends with the Institute being destroyed.

[coarse grove]

Nothing really, it's a shame they really did take the cold fusion from that city, too. Cause it would've been wiser to occupy it, but Quintus is attempting a power-grab to stand up to the Commonwealth but we know how that turns out.

[sand thicket]

These knights of San Fernando are just raiders with power armor

An offshoot of whatever remaining chapters were left in California after the ncr spread

[coarse grove]

Very much so.

[sly obsidian]

I wonder what the people who've never played the games will think about the Brotherhood after watching the show.

Pretty much everyone in that story is unlikeable.

[coarse grove]

Judging by Season 1, the normies weren't upset by the portrayal, from what I could tell and gathered just from talking to folks.

Even now, at least from what I can tell - from military friends, they appreciated the authenticty of the Brotherhood cause they behaved like typical military people. Lol

[sly obsidian]

I don't know, this episode in particular just rubs me the wrong way.

The grenade and car scenes specifically.

In Season 1 the Brotherhood was portrayed as fanatical and arrogant but not stupid or incompetent.

[coarse grove]

If you've ever interacted with military folk, it's very on par and actually very realistic. lol It's the type of stuff that's silly, but happens in the military constantly that gets you in trouble.

Or back in the day 'wall to wall counseling'. lol

[sly obsidian]

This might be my least favorite iteration of the Brotherhood so far.

(not counting FO76 because I didn't get to the BoS DLCs).

[coarse grove]

These Western chapters are devolved, so it is very natural that we dislike them.
However, something to note to, it's only how these four Chapters behave. Assuming Quintus isn't lying for whatever reason, there are a bunch of other Chapters that didn't show up to the meeting.

[sly obsidian]

When I first played Fallout 3 I didn't really like how it portrated the Brotherhood but at least it made sense in the context of that story.

I really want to see a proper disciplined Brotherhood in the show just so that I know that the writers didn't just decide to turn one of the staples of the franchise into a wacky joke faction.

I dread what they're going to do with the Legion in the next episode.

[coarse grove]

Not a fan of the two leaders?

[sly obsidian]

I like the show in general but it's leaning a bit too far into comedy for my taste.

Unrealted but is it confirmed that Shady Sands was not the capital of NCR when it was destroyed?

[lofty needle]

ye shady sands was only the "first" capital of the ncr now

[sly obsidian]

Because there's no way Hank was able to smuggle a bomb into the center of the capital without anyone noticing.

Like did no one check what was in the back of the carriage when it entered the city?

[weary sorrel]

So, Hank basically just nuked the NCR equivalent of Philadelphia?

[coarse grove]

it was the 'first' not the only.

[sly obsidian]

Also it still bugs me that they moved Shady Sands into the ruins of the city.

I don't understand why.

[coarse grove]

the location changed a few times before it's not that big of a deal tbh, like yes it's annoying but not the first time it's moved

[raven fossil]

also how could a bomb this small destroy the entire city? it's the same as the ones liberty prime uses

[weary sorrel]

Same, it kinda messes with the NCR's states considering Shady and the Boneyard were two separate states.

[viscid fossil]

I think she'll want to settle with Maximus and / or the Ghoul in an NCR town somewhere.

[viscid fossil]

It looked more like the bomb that can destroy Megaton.

[sly obsidian]

"It just works".

[sly obsidian]

Megaton is tiny though.

It has the population of like 20 people.

[raven fossil]

nah megaton's bomb is at least twice the size

they used the same model with the ones liberty prime uses in fo4

[sly obsidian]

Also what are everyone's theories regarding the neck things that Hank uses?

[coarse grove]

Erm

[sly obsidian]

How do they factor into the general Vault Tec plan.

[coarse grove]

I'm convinced the Vault tec got ahold of it for the Enclave but that's my guess.

[sly obsidian]

I hope the final twist isn't going to be that House developed them to turn everyone into mind-controlled puppets.

(that's exactly what it's going to be)

I know House is a villain but he's a completely different type of villain.

He's a hardcore libertarian, wanting total control over the population seems out of character for him.

That seems more like an Enclave or Vault Tec thing to do.

[lofty needle]

another gripe i have with shady sands is they changed it so that shady sands has a population of 34k when fallout 2 (50 years prior to the tv show) it has a 700k population

[empty crane]

I'd say house is a semi-benevolent autocrat

[lofty needle]

and given in nv it was the centre of all politics for the ncr it means hundreds of thousands of people mustve left in the span of a few years after nv

[coarse grove]

It won't, I'm pretty confident House abandoned the project tbh.

[empty crane]

he wants full control but he's not the type to intervene in others people's lives

or slaughter random people for no reason

[lofty needle]

in fact the tv show just makes it look like a small farming town

[empty crane]

especially not in person lmao

[sly obsidian]

That scene in the beginning of E1 was very weird.

[coarse grove]

There's a difference, House wants control for Human progression because his narcissim leads him to believe that he is the only hope for Humanity's survival.

Hence why he said the word "progress" after killing the unionists.

He used them as live test subjects, also because they were unionists and he probably didn't like them much anyway

[weary sorrel]

House needed the NCR around for gambling/tourist income plus the money from water and electricity; how does Hank nuking Shady Sands serve that goal? No/weakened NCR means the former income stream is shot at best.

[empty crane]

it just seems strange to me for house the recluse to be out in the street killing people like a psycho

[sly obsidian]

We still don't know how closely Hank's and House's agendas are aligned.

[raven fossil]

still it was very irrational and impulsive for someone like house

[coarse grove]

He's not a full recluse, yet.

[empty crane]

house would rather sit in his luxury suite as people are killed for his goals

[coarse grove]

He's mentally unwell. Lmao NPD is a mental illness my guy.

[weary sorrel]

True, I'm just going off of what we know from NV, unless we're now supposed to just throw all that stuff out now.

[coarse grove]

No you're correct.

Shady Sands was tourism for the NCR.

Which then drove traffic into Vegas.

[raven fossil]

in the show i think they're presenting him more like a sociopath

[empty crane]

also he says some shit like "punch me I'd like it" which makes it seem like mr house was born into immense richdom and has never lived the life of a normal guy

[coarse grove]

I don't know if you know what that means. But that is not what was displayed.

[empty crane]

which isn't true

[lofty needle]

the problem is now that shady sands only has 34k people in it (im assuming thiss change in population is a retcon), houes's plans wouldnt have been dissripted by its nuking anymore

[coarse grove]

No he says, "Punch me, I think I'd like it" then he says, "I'm rarely wrong." Implying that he was wrong.

[lofty needle]

it would have been disrupted by the ncr collapsing as a result of it i suppose

[coarse grove]

He in fact, did not like getting punched. lmao

[lofty needle]

i honestly dont know why they arbitrarily picked 34k

[coarse grove]

The train was fixed

So assuming that it got destroyed, it would've disrupted the rails, I believe

Meaning there would be zero back and forth

[lofty needle]

yeaah i mean clearly shady sands nuking has weakened the ncr significantly and now theyve presumably lost the state of the boneyard

but still

34k is such a strange number lol

im guessing they just wanted to make shady sands smaller?

but i dont understand why

they could still have nuked it but had it have a population that maed more sense

even if it isnt the capital anymore

[coarse grove]

Unless there was underground bits we didn't see, im not sure.

[lofty needle]

also im watching that new cut content video now its interesting

[raven fossil]

they probably think it's impossible for civilization to have been developed so much after the apocalypse

[lofty needle]

that's fair like if its a retcon i dont mind too much but i just think it is a biiiig retcon

then again maybe im deeping this too much, if the NCR has a new capital shady sands just being this smaller settlement works for the story

[coarse grove]

I was gonna say, Shady Sands was probably the city connecting to Vegas via monorail or train

so it getting destroyed, fucked the tourism on a large scale

[weary sorrel]

Hence why maybe Arroyo is the next best thing outside of the Hub for a new capital for the NCR; wasn't it also built from the ground up like Shady Sands was?

[lofty needle]

yee that works out for the new location of shady sands too, makes more sense a railway would run directly from the boneyard to vegas

[sudden dirge]

Yk, when I saw Xander Harkness.. I wondered, why does he look so different in the show? And on top of that, where's Arthur Maxson?

[lofty needle]

true i like the idea arroyo is the new capital because like shady sands it was also founded using a GECK

[raven fossil]

it's not confirmed that he's the same person

he just has the same name

[coarse grove]

Xander is not Arthur.

[lofty needle]

its a different harkness

[sudden dirge]

I never said that

[sudden dirge]

Maybe this guy took him as a way to honor him?

[lofty needle]

theyll probably namedrop arthur maxson at some point but i doubt theyll introduce him into the tv show

[coarse grove]

I expect a name drop or voice.

I don't think we'll see him physically.

[lofty needle]

yeah this is one of those references that's harmless and if anything makes sense that characters would mention in conversation

[sudden dirge]

What about a flag? I saw a few references to the Minutemen

[coarse grove]

It's kind of irrelevant tbh. Even if it was MM, it would suggest an alliance - either way MM / BoS alliance or BoS ending is canon which is all we need confirmation for. The MM are a militia anyway - i think people forget

[sudden dirge]

Fair

[coarse grove]

Like at most it would mean just more characters canonized like Preston and what not ? but. Grand scheme of things, it wouldn't change much. It just means Boston is much more secure, too.

[weary sorrel]

Not that I'd expect the MM to come along for the ride if the Commonwealth BoS gets word and decides to stomp on Quintus and friends.

[scenic wolf]

I think area 51 has x01

Ffs stupid screenshot just went black

Also could be the x02/ fo3 enclave armor

Actually kinda looks like Tesla armor

[scenic wolf]

Looks like it has the blue lights on its back here

[late wedge]

hm the perspective makes it really hard to tell, it's confusing because the silhouette does look very x01 to me, but the scaling of size & width seems super off compared to the BOS power armor of the guys walking in the room

I just love the alien UFO under the cloth

[tame current]

@small tundra Do you reckon we already saw everything with NCR troopers as they were leaked and as you leaked earlier in the year in this episode?
I'd like to think you have seen scenes we haven't yet
Possibly set in Vegas or something

[small tundra]

No we have lots to see

We haven’t seen much of the NCR yet

[tame current]

Aw yeah kickass man

Leakers rule

[tame current]

Thanks for the confirmation brother :]

[small tundra]

👍

[tranquil dew]

NCR Better get their get back in the season

Also who were all the brotherhood at the meeting

[weary sorrel]

Even if it's just a W against the Legion, that'd be fine, but the Bear needs to put up numbers on the board again like in the old days.

[tranquil dew]

Like the one who talked about taxes

[lofty needle]

new season 2 leak boys

[cold jetty]

Could be this

Also I think one of the guys fighting the securitron is Xander Harkness

[coarse grove]

Chapters we haven't met yet.

They're all Western.

A bunch of chapters didn't show, so, we don't know how many exactly were in the West.

But so far 4, confirmed more than that.

[tranquil dew]

True Enclave patriot

Is also in Arizona

[lofty needle]

true, there are missions released weekly in line with the episode releases, the one i did in this sc confirms these are "rogue" securitrons but we sort of already knew that then theres 3 more missions im about to do now that will finish up the set for this week

[tranquil dew]

Favorite brotherhood member

[late wedge]

Considering the ones before that Fallout Shelter mission were signing requisition forms then actively fighting aliens in Area 51....I'm not sure these are confirmation of much besides general setting / characters. Either that, or the BOS civil war has an otherworldly new faction involved lol

[lofty needle]

yeah i wouldnt take anything in this too seriously

ill send across anything interesting i find tho incase it does end up being relevant

[late wedge]

I'm honestly enjoying the missions though, I don't really play FO Shelter anymore (especially since I transitioned to FOShelter Online), but I have picked it back up again with this whole 'season' format

[lofty needle]

thats them talking about why the securitrons went berserk

same

i acc quite like thisi cause i have somethign to keep coming back to the game for with these new missions

[late wedge]

agreed

[scenic wolf]

Oh ya that's such a good nod to the players

[torpid cargo]

Fallout Shelter enjoyer spotted in the wild.

[tired yew]

The area 51 thing accurately predicted the brotherhood having alien tech, but it's too early to tell for the rest of its plotline

[lofty needle]

yeah tbf i thought it was just a joke when i played the mission first in fallout shelter and hey they did technically have aliens in area 51 in the tv show

they also showed novac off with the new direction of the dinosaur before ep 1 came out

one of this weeks missions is set in a robco facility maybe that means something?

[coarse grove]

🙂

[shadow jolt]

isnt the scribe having a cryolator lore breaking?

because the scientist in vault 111 in their free time made it from old cryostasis pods

[latent cave]

"BoS shouldn't be a major faction or a big piece in the fallout universe cuz they lost that time"

No shit bro, everyone loses sometimes, even more in an wasteland..

[violet plover]

Shows up in 76 as well

[coarse grove]

If the Enclave and the Vault Tec are in league, then no. Plus it shows up in 76.

[latent cave]

Does he mentions it was his invention?

I can't remember

[shadow jolt]

ill have to check the vault again but it was mentioned in the terminal in some capacity

[coarse grove]

It was developed by him, but it's pretty much all but confirmed that Vault tec and the Enclave are in league, so it wouldn't be far-fetched to assume the government, notably the Enclave got ahold of it, or got ahold of a version of it and put it in Area 51.

[latent cave]

Although I wouldn't trust an overseer word lol

[latent cave]

Wasn't most of the Vaults connected by Terminals?

They could snatch the info or he could send to them

[coarse grove]

Yes, but the idea isn't exactly ground breaking, it's just a ice/frost version of a flamethrower.

[latent cave]

Yeah lol

[coarse grove]

In concept, it's an icethrower, really.

[latent cave]

And it's cool (lol)

[coarse grove]

Yea, im not knocking the idea.
It just wouldn't be really out of the realm for the government or someone else to steal it.

[lofty needle]

okay so i finished this weeks missions and the final mission doesnt reveal anything i think will be relevant to season 2 - it reveals the securitrons in this questline are being turned hostile cause a group of mercs are stealing and selling part of their electronics (just think this is something for fallout shelter and not acc anything to do with season2 lore)

[latent cave]

Enclave would 100% steal it

[weary sorrel]

Especially the upgraded Securitrons.

[olive depot]

I feel like I recognized one of our BoS guys as another Sci Fi guy... Ben... can't remember his last name from Farscape and SG1

Hmm totally not him

[tired yew]

Creation club content ergo the cryolator is not technically canon in 4

[coarse grove]

what, cryolator is fallout 4 vanilla

it's literally in the official concept art book, too

[tired yew]

Yeah I checked the wiki to make sure and it surprisingly is

[shadow jolt]

bruh I got my infomation from before the creation club was even a thing

[coarse grove]

some of the original art for the gun looked good

[tired yew]

The traumatized sole survivor immediately going "ooh shiny" when you interact with it in 4 was jarring enough that I assumed it was CC

[shadow jolt]

tbh they probally got adhd

[coarse grove]

i do very much wish it was an ice beam. 😔

[tired yew]

It's showed up a few times so maybe there are a couple very similar variations

[cold jetty]

brian thompson?

[tired yew]

Or maybe the guy in 111 was involved in the project somewhere else

[olive depot]

No. Was talking about the Grand Canyon one..and I thought it was Ben Browder... it isn't.

[cold jetty]

His name is Chris browning

[olive depot]

Though Brian has been in a number of Trek eps. (Trek is my top)

[tired yew]

There must be a lot of pre war government facilities in the grand canyon for it to have its own chapter based there

[shadow jolt]

a lightning bolt of ice could of been cool

[coarse grove]

Possibly.

[coarse grove]

Yeah, might have to look for a mod(or make it myself) next time I play 4.

[olive depot]

it's probably a great area for sub-surface.. the Grand Canyon is huge in and of itself (277 miles long) and provides a great way to get deep underground without necessarilly digging down.

[tired yew]

So just to review, we've got the grand canyon and California brotherhoods and then the other 2

[olive depot]

Yellowstone

[coarse grove]

Yosemite.

[tired yew]

Okay

[coarse grove]

Wait a minute

Hm.

[tired yew]

Okay so every other chapter at the summit is based out of a once-national park with distinct geological features

Grand canyon, Yellowstone volcano, big ass cliff faces

[olive depot]

and then "The Commonwealth"

[tired yew]

Do we know where quintus' chapter is actually based or is he basically just roaming southern California

[coarse grove]

Yosemite is in Cali specifically.

[olive depot]

And we've now shown there is multiple airships. 🙂

[coarse grove]

I knew it fucking sounded familiar.

[coarse grove]

Which is not necessarily new, Bethesda ripped that out of tactics iirc.

[tired yew]

This chapter should probably have lost hills if lost hills is still online

It's a way south of Mariposa but still easier to access from Mariposa than LA

[olive depot]

well, it seemed like most thought the ship in the first season was the Prydwen.

[coarse grove]

So then wait, this would also give it ties back to 76.

[tired yew]

Yeah which it was

The caswennan is a different ship afaik

[coarse grove]

I'm pretty sure the NPS was in control of the park systems. Which we only got lore on recently.

I know they're briefly mentioned in HH and FH, but 76, and Skyline blew up their lore a bit.

[olive depot]

I'm curious to know...who installed the fans @ AR51.... prewar, brotherhood?

[tired yew]

Area 51 was probably a military R&D blacksite

Given the supposed connection between alien technology and plasma technology it was probably being used by repconn or whoever else was doing that contract but that's just speculation

[coarse grove]

Prydwen showed up to drop of reinforcements, the Caswennan is the ship that Quintus has that we see in this season.

[olive depot]

btw... We also know that the aliens are now canon. 🙂 So maybe it Was them who started it.

[tired yew]

We've known they were canon for a while

[olive depot]

I mean in the show..sorry for my poor phrasing.

[tired yew]

I hope they don't come up again but y'know

[coarse grove]

They better be, the kidnapped the Vault Tec assistant CEO.

[tired yew]

Do we know why quintus needed the prydwen to send reinforcements

[coarse grove]

Because he didn't have manpower.

[cold jetty]

DERVISH Camouflage system?

“The goal of the Hidden Valley project is to create a self-sustaining shelter for high-ranking VIPs that can serve as a command structure in times of crisis. The bunker itself is located several hundred feet below the surface. Multiple layers of reinforced materials serve to prevent a breach of the inhabitable areas by anything save for a direct hit by a bunker-busting weapon utilizing a megatonnage considered outside the capability of America's closest competitors. In the event that our enemies become capable of such an attack, the bunker's DERVISH camouflage system makes targeting the site impossible for automated systems, forcing aggressors to rely on guesswork and sheer luck.”

"That is this base's defensive system. It serves as camouflage and masks all entry and exit from the bunker. We use it to hide our patrols and supply runners, though we still send such out at night to be extra safe."

[coarse grove]

He was given orders from the Commonwealth and couldn't carry them out without reinforcements.

[tired yew]

How the hell did he mess up badly enough to not have manpower in post NCR California

[coarse grove]

I don't know.

The only other explaination is that, we see A LOT of the people are younger, though, in his Chapter, or at least at Maximus's base.

So maybe he needed more seasoned people, im not sure

or wasn't entirely confident in what he had.

Those are the at best, gracious and considerate answers i can think of.

Mind you im just assuming.

[tired yew]

I assumed Maximus' base was a training facility tbh

[coarse grove]

I'd have to double check actually.

[tired yew]

Quintus in general seems to run a funny operation as far as the brotherhood goes

Suppose we don't actually see the majority of his knights so they could still have more veterans that are just Titus adjacent pricks

[coarse grove]

yeah, this is what i was thinking.

but there's never a mention of a paladin rank specific, or higher, so it confuses me.

[olive depot]

Funny..also someone who may have been 'punnished' and relegated to teacher..... since he has definate power aspirations.

[tired yew]

The only way this would make any real sense is if quintus doesn't have the authority to elevate paladins

But that would suggest some serious changes to the brotherhood's bureaucracy

[coarse grove]

Yeah, only to elevate Knights it seems.

[tired yew]

So quintus' chapter is small, under-equipped and restricted in administrative scope

[cold jetty]

I think the show just prefers the name over Paladin

[tired yew]

I wonder what the other summit chapters stack up like in comparison

[coarse grove]

Could be that too.

[olive depot]

Or we'll see Paladins as we get more involved.... Sometimes the slow trickle feed is frustrating and hiding stuff.

[coarse grove]

We're about to find out. lol

[tired yew]

They've shown us one paladin and he's a wild card dispatched from the east so they're definitely not opposed to introducing them which makes their absence seem deliberate

[tired yew]

Hoping desperately one of them is still using T-45

[olive depot]

still not sure how i feel about that actor.

I could only see him as the guy from Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire.

[tired yew]

He's usually filling more comedic roles so this should be a nice change of pace

[olive depot]

I feel like the character has some gravitas, but I am anticipating humor/fun which is kinda killing it for me.

[sand thicket]

Different chapters different ranking systems

Maximus is a knight but somehow has authority over other knights we can assume he is a knight captain

[tired yew]

There have been head knights in pretty much every game

Except for 2 obviously

[olive depot]

I'm definately loading FO:NV for a playthrough this weekend.

[sand thicket]

These San Fernando knights ranking system is something like this aspirant—>squire/scribe—> petty officer/officer≈head scribe

[olive depot]

this ep has me feeling all sorts of Nastalga, and I need details 🙂

[sand thicket]

Knights depending on knight ranking they are under command of the officers

This is a new rank

[tired yew]

It is?

[sand thicket]

Officers/petry officers

Which we haven’t seen in another game

Then there a two different scribe ranks

[tired yew]

Hrm

[sand thicket]

These I assume are field scribes

As we see them in the battle of Griffith observatory alongside knights and squires

Then there are head scribes

[tired yew]

Why would there be scribes fighting at Griffith

[olive depot]

it does play into the undermanned aspect.

[sand thicket]

These are field scribes

Even in fallout 4 there are field scribes who go into combat

[tired yew]

This is the first time the Brotherhood has ever applied light infantry in a significant capacity

[coarse grove]

No, what I'm saying is that in the show, it's never mentioned or shown. And Maximus's rank is just a Knight, not Knight Captain. It's probably simplified for the show, but still. It's important to note.
We only see Scribes, Knights, Squires, Trainees, and Clerics. We don't see Paladins, aside from Xander - and we don't see Star Paladins(doubt they even have one). But they're unmanned, so that makes sense.

[tired yew]

Specifically escorted by other dedicated combatants

[sand thicket]

There’s also a new rank officers

[cold jetty]

Squires and initiates wear the same uniforms in the tv show

[sand thicket]

Dane is wearing the same uniform as these other guys and he went into combat

[cold jetty]

It’s just a knight officer

[sand thicket]

These guys are officers

[coarse grove]

This is not a new rank, the outfit is new.

[sand thicket]

It is a new rank

[tired yew]

Maximus definitely has authority over the other knights given his activities in episode 2

[shadow jolt]

imagine when maxson and his bos invade area 51 they just start teleporting in using the insitutes teleporter

[coarse grove]

A knight officer is new?

[austere tendon]

that oufit is nice

[sand thicket]

Theres a character named petty officer shortsight who commands the squires at Philly when they are mounting up to go to grifffith

[tired yew]

It could be that squires (which are notably a new rank) are a different progression line from the general aspirant population

[sand thicket]

This guy I’ll show the picture

[coarse grove]

I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm saying it's probably more informal than actual. We were supposed to get his Knight Ceremony in S1, we didn't. He's listed as a Knight, not a Knight Captain.

[tired yew]

He seems to formally be in the officer pool during the assembly for the summit

[ember swallow]

thats a meme waiting to happen

[sand thicket]

This guy officer shortsight has authority over initiates and squires maybe even some knights

He isn’t a scribe or proctor or any other rank

His character name is literally Officer Shortsight

[tired yew]

I'm thinking that there are 2 distinct divisions in quintus' brotherhood then

[sand thicket]

This chapter has officer ranks

Your overthinking it

It’s just a different chapter with a different ranking system