EPISODE 2

[errant bobcat]

welp Bud ded af then

goodbye brain

[tranquil roost]

Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter was crazy

[high aspen]

Would sharing BTS images be against the rules?

Eh

Pretty cool

[errant bobcat]

ah shit

so much for Lucy making a new friend

Also that has got to be the least intimidating praetorian guard i have ever seen

[bleak oak]

Waw new episode, what happened?

[empty crane]

she lead lucy to the legion anyway she was never her friend

[errant bobcat]

i doubt she did it with malicious intent

[empty crane]

please be vulpes

[errant bobcat]

shes a slave

[empty crane]

yeah but as a slave she would know what the legion does to women

[bleak oak]

Mcucly Culkin just hitting that shit wit da pose

[shy dove]

You think they’ll continue the BOS civil war in S3? There’s no way they’ll end it within 6 episodes

[empty crane]

I hope so

and I hope the commonwealth gets their ass handed to them even if the other chapters are worse

they're so stuck up and bigoted

[high aspen]

Commonwealth will seemingly sabotage the 4 chapters and make them start a civil war of their own

preventing a huge civil war before it starts

[errant bobcat]

they're playing 4d chess

[empty crane]

is that from a leak

[high aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/elder-maxson-arthur-maxson-fallout-4-gif-13263509943382983856

[high aspen]

From some interview, let me try and see if I can find it

The scene where the airship blows up from the trailer is likely due to some form of sabotage

[empty crane]

nice

[eager folio]

@coarse grove

Remember

Roaming the mojave makes you wish for a nuclear winter
Now defuse the nuclear bomb

[river merlin]

If only Maximus’ dad had put more points into Explosives :/

[eager folio]

Yes
Ajax did his build wrong
now we have to suffer with shady sands being blown up

[river merlin]

With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.

[empty crane]

I was hoping for more adobe houses in shady sands

[tame current]

It can't be
That must just a reused asset thing or something

[rain hamlet]

you gotta pay for the subscription first

[tame current]

I think that's not all
I don't think that just it for trooper screentime

Hey btw
I don't why isn't this talked about more but why tf does it seem like they used AI for those two target practice images for the credits

I do not vibe with that

[eager folio]

Ai?
Huh didnt notice it

[tame current]

Yeah here let me get it for you

[rain hamlet]

because its still Amazon
why pay for people to do it when AI can do it!

[eager folio]

Yeah that the most likely answer

[tame current]

Here second image with the target practice posters of NCR

[eager folio]

Amazon did use AI art for their promation material

[eager folio]

Uhh
Truth to be told
I still cant see it

[rain hamlet]

something like THAT i have no issue with being AI tbh
it appears for a few seconds on the end credits that only a few fanatics will pay attention to

its also incredibly easy to make yourself tbh

so why waste the time

[eager folio]

True

I dont mind that being AI
Its still work

[tame current]

Eh
I do think it is malicious
Plus if it is really a thing about time and money wasted on something so fast
Why not like, just reuse assets from the games
They already do it NCR propaganda posters

Also lol

Literulli 1984

Anyways yeah going back to the Shady Sands location stuff
I'm still not entirely convinced it is right smack in the ruins of the Boneyard, actually

It really just seems to me like it is in the ruins of something like an alternate Lancaster or totally new city near it that just was more developed or something
Kinda like a Divide situation were Hopeville and Ashton seemed to be really developed pre-War but if you go to the California Nevada border IRL you only get Death Valley

[tired yew]

So uh, does the show imply fusion cores are batteries or am I missing something

[tired yew]

The presence of city ruins and the big light up shot makes the boneyard possibility seem pretty strong but tbh we won't know until we see an actual map of California in the show

[tame current]

OOOOHHH
Wait you mean where they had possibly wanted Shady to be in S1 before realizing it is not possible so they decided to leave it vague instead?
Yeah no reasonable
Tbh yeah I did think its skyline seemed kinda changed from S1 so valid theory lol

[rain hamlet]

i had the same thought lol
i thought they were miniaturized nuclear reactors
not rechargeable batteries

[tame current]

Honestly I'm thinking they are implying that they are now able to manufacture them in greater quantities than before, rather
Not like a change in functionality

[tame current]

That was in Griffith Observatory

[tired yew]

Wasn't the observatory literally overlooking the ruins (of shady sands)

[rain hamlet]

maybe thats it
infinite power means you can have your manufacturing running infintely

[tired yew]

They'd still need to be relying on access to other resources if that was the case

Fusion cores in general confuse the hell out of me right now actually

[rain hamlet]

well, looking it up
Preston in F4 does call it a nuclear battery

[tame current]

It overlooks the Boneyard, rather

[tired yew]

They can power buildings basically indefinitely but there was still a resource war, they're apparently vital to all fusion generation besides cold fusion too

[weary sorrel]

Good thing the Brotherhood presumably have no idea where Big MT or the Madre is; imagine them having access to those Sierra Madre vending machines in combination with cold fusion.

[rain hamlet]

when you think about it they really make no sense lol

[tame current]

If you really think about it
Nothing in Fallout does lol

[tired yew]

I'm hoping they're like pseudo batteries that are used to jumpstart fusion engines rather than being literally miniaturized fusion reactors

[rain hamlet]

and they would STILL play with a live grenade while in a crowd of people

[weary sorrel]

Was facepalming all throughout that bit; I swear, Maximus and Dane are sharing the entire chapter's brain cell at this point.

[rain hamlet]

100% that grenade is going to go off before the season ends lol

[weary sorrel]

One can only hope it'd take Quintus or at least these other Elders with it too.

[rain hamlet]

maybe thats what brought the airship down in the trailer

[tame current]

Foreshadowing is a narrative device in which suggestions or warnings about events to come are dropped or planted. Foreshadowing often appears at the beginning of a story, and it helps develop or subvert the audience's expectations about upcoming events.

-# This article is about the narrative device. For the security vulnerability, see Foreshadow. For other uses, see Foreshadowing (disambiguation).

[tired yew]

I like some of quintus' knights

They're very goofy little shits

By the way do we know if t-51 had the welding fault that the other t-models have

[rain hamlet]

i thought that was only the t-60?

[tired yew]

Nah

Originally a fault in t-45, the ghoul basically vibe checked the t-60 guys in season 1 to see if they ever fixed it

[eager folio]

The T-51 was the best PA

I wouldnt be suprised if they did fix it

[rain hamlet]

yea despite what F4 shows
t-51 was the best PA pre war

i think F76 shows that in stats as well

hopefully they remember that in the show

[errant bobcat]

it had an in-built survival system, air conditioner, the works

[empty crane]

this is good cope

[tame current]

I don't take that type of shi from a tribal

[empty crane]

I like when small towns are developed into cities or straight up new cities exist in fallout, really makes it feel like the future

[tame current]

Nah actually seriously
This actually does happen since forever in Fallout
Example?
Bakersfield

You don't have that type of skyscrapers in Bakersfield

[empty crane]

I agree with your take but i doubt it's what the show writers intended

[empty crane]

yeah

[eager folio]

Can we give the commonwealth bos some praise for their pilot landing correctly?

I forgot how bad shit crazy these guys are

[tame current]

Yeah no like the other guy said
It really is not that far off to think they might have intended for Shady to be in LA in S1 before they realized they messed up but it was to late to change it so they left it vague and in S2 they changed the layout of the skyline

[twin mango]

So big

The dude with the weird forehead?

[tired yew]

That guy's chapter seems to be more outright technophilic than the others

[tame current]

Any idea where the Legion camp we are seeing might be?
It looks too green to be the Mojave

Or at least a part of the Mojave we know of

I'm looking at a map of Vegas and I would like to postulate Sloan Canyon National Conservatory as a possible candidate

[twin mango]

How would they have power armour

[tame current]

Holy shit
Go to Screen Graph

[empty crane]

fuck the commonwealth

[tame current]

Episode 2 is the highest rated in the series by far now

[empty crane]

I did enjoy this episode a lot more than the last one

[tame current]

Yeah no me too

This was good

[weary sorrel]

Fingers crossed Lucy's time in Legion captivity will be like the equivalent of a 'Scared Straight' thing for her; not saying she has to become a nihilistic sociopath edgelord, of course, but this goofball moralistic nonsense needs to stop pronto.

[twin mango]

Why was e3 s1 the worst?

[cold jetty]

Boring

[lofty needle]

shes definitely improving, shooting at those khans even if she doesnt kill them is a big change from her in s1

slowly but surely shes getting there

[weary sorrel]

All the more reason for her time cooped up in Legion captivity to get that lingering Vault brainwashing out of her system.

Wasteland ain't gonna wait.

[lofty needle]

i wonder if we'll get to a point where lucy actually just agrees with the ghouls methods at times

[torpid cargo]

After 140 years, and wars with the BoS, and sacking of Navarro, I’m sure the NCR capital would have some actual power armor soldiers. Not just the heavy troopers in NV.

[lofty needle]

i cant really imagine it just yet

[long sedge]

Is Lost Hills implied to be anywhere

[weary sorrel]

Maybe Lost Hills is backing Maxson/the Commonwealth over Quintus's Dumb and Dumber posse of renegades?

[long sedge]

I kinda like to think they dont care and stay in their hole still

[hearty chasm]

You think we're ever gonna learn about Thaddeus?

[cold jetty]

Next episode

[hearty chasm]

What're the prevailing theories? I think super mutant

[harsh dagger]

That or ghoul

[eager folio]

What can we say
Its just THAT good

Its awesome
Its cool
Give a lot of lore
Has cool fight scenes
Has BoS

But the best part was very much the well earned BoS lore

[tired yew]

Probably FEV but probably not super mutant

We do know there is a ghoul making drug floating around the wasteland but most likely from what the trailers have shown would be a centaur or something else entirely

[tired yew]

The brotherhood has become way too culturally divided to still be under Maxson imo

The other chapters in 4 are wholly supporting the Commonwealth and Maxson, he was proving to be a strong unifying force for the brotherhood at the time

[empty crane]

I feel like the ncr would have killed everyone and ransacked the lost hills bunker during the brotherhood war

[pure kernel]

as they should tbf

those lost hills radroaches are annoying little fuckers

[late wedge]

I do think that’s probably what happened, given that they built a few very specific building assets that they clearly put in shady sands, that they then were consistent in placing in a general area multiple times since then, and that now appear in this season too…but I think with it becoming more notable in S2, that they’re trying to fix (at least somewhat) their location issue lol

[pure kernel]

one things for sure, the representation of shady in season 1 was definitely not final at all

season 2's shady sands is much larger

[tame current]

Yeah
I mean now it seems like they want to make it placed in a whole new pre-War city rather than just LA

Now that's more clear

And more consistent, at least a bit

[weary sorrel]

Kinda curious if they'll revisit pre-nuke Shady Sands in the future for flashbacks; there's still maybe the how of Hank kidnapping Lucy and Norm back to Vault 33, if nothing else.

[cold jetty]

They probably will

[weary sorrel]

If anything, maybe Lucy's captivity with the Legion will dredge up those memories? Like, being nabbed and held prisoner might be a subconscious trigger that makes her remember/dream of that incident?

[silver river]

Yes I agree

[heady river]

finally catching episode 2 rn

holy shit, shady sands had it made

that was practically a pre war city

[silver river]

It was described as being indistinguishable from a pre war city

Like in game

[heady river]

hank maclean is a fucking monster my god

[tame current]

They nailed it honestly

Hank you die this season

[heady river]

but also, speaking of hank. you'd think he would just bring a handful of rats to the testing room instead of one by one each time

thats super inefficient

[silver river]

It’s ironic how all those people are supposed to be kind super managers and yet they are all inheritly sadistic

[tame current]

He liked the ride :]

[silver river]

They had to freeze them

One by one

[heady river]

"you speak latin too?" oh lucy girl no

[tame current]

First time since FO2 to see actual post-War vehicles and the first one was exploded and the second one is inside a Vault-Tec Super Vault Facility

[heady river]

yeah those brotherhood knights destroying that car for kicks was super funny

same with shattering the body of that zetan

[silver river]

Playing with a plasma gernsde in front of all the elders too lmao

[heady river]

quintus is right to be annoyed w the state of his brotherhood but my god is it funny

also the idea that theres brotherhood chapters for every landmark in the west is hilarious

what do you mean theres a grand canyon brotherhood

[pure kernel]

Its pretty accurate tbh, the brotherhood have always being kinda dumb assholes

I'm so happy they're implementing the airship lore into the games from tactics

because canonically alot of airships were sent east and alot were "lost"

[heady river]

yeah i think the only true spirits have been the original roger maxson and owyn lyons

[pure kernel]

Yup, and ironically Lyons was seen as "idealistic" and "weak" by the new brotherhood

Even though he was perhaps the closest to what Roger wanted

[heady river]

i do wonder if 20 years on maxson has united all the chapters on the east, altho i think the only other one out there is in chicago

[pure kernel]

Tbh, it really seems like all the "good" brotherhood (as in competent and strong) went east, they even sent the Maxson lineage over to the east coast

[heady river]

oh yeah

[pure kernel]

whatever was left on the west was either super weakened (lost hills) or incompetent.

[heady river]

and the scraps left in the west splintered way too much and all do their own thing

[pure kernel]

Indeed

pretty hilarious that quintus was trying so hard to plot against the brotherhood and then Paladin Xander just makes an entrance

the east coast knew the whole time apparently

unless he isnt who he says he is, which is entirely possible

[heady river]

yeah maxson isnt a moron im sure he saw this coming

i do hope if this civil war thing does pan out and we see the commonwealth BOS their armor is in the black and orange from 4

[pure kernel]

hell yeah

If Elder Maxson is still around, then he's like the single most important person currently in the wasteland.

He definitely has the most power

Now that the NCR is allegedly out of the ring (for now)

[heady river]

arthur has to still be around

he was goddamn 20 in 4

[pure kernel]

Another interesting tidbit, Arthur literally has Liberty Fucking Prime, that one elder was right when he said "they'd kick our fucking asses"

[heady river]

i imagine thatd probably be his last resort

also, that red jacket the show paladins wear is sweet, i hope someone mods that into 4

[tame current]

Oooh
So we are saying that Lost Hills is possibly kaput?

[heady river]

i mean it has to be, right?

or at least not nearly as powerful as they once were

i cant imagine they'd let the west coast splinter so much like this

[sand thicket]

They are all terrified of the commonwealth

[torpid cargo]

Lost Hills is probably fine. Considering they changed the location of Shady, odds are the location of the Bunker was moved as well.

[torpid cargo]

Anyone got an estimated yield for the bomb?

[ebon furnace]

It looks exactly like the Mark 28s that liberty prime throws, except that the crater it causes indicates a yield several times larger than tsar bomba so idk

[long sedge]

I think the craters are style choices

[coarse grove]

The only Brotherhood that's culturally divided is the West, the West wasnt included in the unification vision that Maxson began, it was only the East - and to the Eastern Seaboard. It's only been 9 years since FO4, and there's zero chance such a cultural shift has happened on that scale in the East. And Magnus pointed out earlier, not all the Chapters in the West answered Quintus's call to the meeting.

Maxson still is a strong unifying force, and Proctor Quinlin specifically indicates that Maxson had the entire Council of Elders too. I highly, highly doubt all that progress is undone. I strictly think it's just the West because the dialogue Quintus expresses and states the Commonwealth didn't share with the West. But the East? That's a different story entirely.

[long sedge]

Idk if they acc imply the bomb size but they really like putting them in the game worlds aswell even though their bombs are was smaller then ours irl im pretty sure

I just need the NCR to come down from the north dawg 🙏

[coarse grove]

Not a synth, he had a license plate embedded into his skull.

[ebon furnace]

The mark 28s, for reference

Look familiar?

[coarse grove]

Arthur Maxson has Liberty Prime, Project Purity, All of DC, A Decent chunk if not all of Boston, the Prydwen and presumably a bunch of airships, Institute tech and the information of all their other locations, agents and technology via the Quest Maxson gives you to steal ALL their data.
The only debatable technology they might not have is the teleporter?

[ebon furnace]

East coast BOS doesn’t even need any of the above to kick the rebellious chapter asses, as I said, send 2 VB-02s and watch as their airships get hindenberged

[coarse grove]

The Soldiers with power armor probably weren't present at Shady Sands and we didn't see any in the Flashback so they probably didn't have one there. I don't think Shady Sands was a heavily fortified position. It was more of a farm land and civilian living space more than military.

[coarse grove]

I agree, but people were claiming that it's been too long apparently for the East to maintain power? And I disagree, especially given Maxson rallied the East in less time, than how much time has passed since the show. Maxson was 12 years old when his ascent to Leadership started.

He was barely 20 by the time the events of FO4 took place.

And the show is 9 years after. I highly doubt in the same time he lost his progression in the East. Actually the 4 Chapters fearing the Commonwealth suggests otherwise. He's probably grown even more.

[high aspen]

He knew of the fact that the 4 chapters would rally for a potential civil war, he took pre-emptive measures before that could even happen

[weary sorrel]

Still, maybe it's for the best that Quintus goes about his little rebellion; NCR can't hog all the L's forever all while the Brotherhood spam Vertibirds and airships up and down the boulevard.

[coarse grove]

Yeah, it's safe to assume Maxson's intelligence is still on par for his leadership. Having a liason and a spy inside Quintus's chapter would make sense. And like Magnus and I said before. He was smart enough to not trust the West with powerful technology.

And also Dane's wording implies the West answers to Maxson because of his rank.

Maxson is above Elders, he's the Supreme Commander, and with the backing of the Council of Elders - means he has authority over other Chapters. So Quintus refusing to tell him about Area 51 and the Cold Fusion's use for it - plus the meeting is in direct violation of the Chain of Command.

[weary sorrel]

Would it also violate the Chain that Binds, or would that be just 'violating the chain of command' under a different wordage?

[coarse grove]

Idk if the Codex specifically mentions the Supreme Commander is the thing.

The Supreme Commander is new, and exclusive to Maxson.

He's the only one to hold the rank. Before that it was High Elder.

But Maxson is above that, I believe.

Because of his achievements, skill, tenacity, and leadership.

That he all exhibited at a young age, 12.

[high aspen]

Yeah, they seemingly need to inform the Commonwealth about anything and everything

plus the fact that they're scared of them, knowing that even the 4 chapters together couldn't take them on

[coarse grove]

This. Yeah. And we saw in season 1 they took orders from the East, too. Given that's where the Wilzig bounty came from.

[high aspen]

High clerics from the Commonwealth

[weary sorrel]

Though who blew the whistle on Wilzig's escape + the cold fusion chip to these 'High Clerics'? Brotherhood have spies in the Enclave?

[coarse grove]

I doubt it's spies, i'd bet you any money it was the Enclave themselves. Think about it. If the Enclave is approaching more of the shadowy-organization approach this time around. It would make more sense they'd put out a bounty on the scientist themselves.
They'd probably use a mix between the Wasteland's own resources, and their own, instead of strictly relying on their own resources given in the past, it's bit them in the ass.

[lofty needle]

yeah i assumed the enclave put the bounty out - keep it mind it isnt until later that the bos find out about cold fusion at first theyre just hunting the guy

[weary sorrel]

And honestly, maybe it'd be to the Enclave's advantage to let the Brotherhood do all the heavy lifting in getting stuff like Area 51 back online rather than waste resources doing it themselves. Wilzig's escape might've been unexpected, but it worked out in the end.

Especially since the Brotherhood are about to remove themselves from the board with this looming civil war of theirs.

[lofty needle]

wonder why the enclave was doing all that animal testing tho - new fev strain? i dont think theyll recycle the fev plotline again tho

[coarse grove]

This.
This is also typical secret service approach, this is how they operate in Appalachia, too. They let others do the heavy lifting. They gave you directives, orders, but they themselves - didn't go out into the field. Granted, it was for a short quest, but it offers insight. The Secret Service is confirmed to be in the Enclave too, it's what Frank Horrigan was.

[coarse grove]

Or new mind-controlled beasts.

[lofty needle]

now thats a more exciting prospect

with mind control being a plotline and deathclaws introduced we can retain a small bit of hope that mind controlled deathclaws return

[coarse grove]

Dogmeat in the show was an enclave experiment, if you recall. Instead of just aiming at FEV, and stuff, they could probably be attempting to control more than just Deathclaws, this time.

[lofty needle]

oh yeah i was rewatching the season 1 enclave scenes and another vault tech connection is that those scientists were wearing pip boys

[coarse grove]

Also consider, as to why the Enclave hasn't done anything - they could be watching, gathering information. By now, if they were watching, they'd have confirmation that Cold Fusion does work. That it can power a city seemingly destroyed by nukes prior, and it has uses for Area 51. All this they can just be stockpiling for a later use.

[coarse grove]

Yep.

It's pretty much all but confirmed that Vault Tec and the Enclave are in league with each other.

[lofty needle]

yeah true i feel the enclave must have known about cold fusion especially pre war when vault tech bought the company up - like sure they shelve it but the encclave would still want something like that

[lofty needle]

im curious what the end game is, we dont even know where the real vault tech higher ups are post war yet

or what their plan is

[coarse grove]

We know a few, the highest ranking Vault tec employee got kidnapped by Zetans

[lofty needle]

i think some people think the vault 33 managers are important cause theyre in the prewar but theyre just a part of that vaults experiment rather than real vault tec higher ups

[coarse grove]

the person under that one was Hugo Stolz.

[coarse grove]

Yuuuuuuuuuup

You know what

[lofty needle]

interesting

[coarse grove]

Maybe Vault tec took that from house after he abandoned it, and Vault tec gave it to the Enclave

holy hell

[lofty needle]

probably im convinced house was only testing it as part of a deal to sell it to vault tec since we know house doesnt have a use for it in nv

[lofty needle]

slightly unrelated but i like the new outfits for those enclave security guys

[coarse grove]

It's similar but different, very interesting.

[lofty needle]

i wonder if theyre giving them a full redesign or just if its for security

[coarse grove]

Re-design probably for their more covert role in the lore atm.

[lofty needle]

true

[coarse grove]

Mind you we have yet to see actual Enclave soldiers, or troopers.

Just guards and scientists, mind you the guards are heavily armed with laser rifles

but still

[lofty needle]

also true

also i have this half baked thought that might really be stretching

in the meeting with the corpos, the other vault tech guy loses the interest of all those CEOs. barb gets a pip boy message looks up and sees the obviously enclave shadow man. then she takes control of the meeting and manages to convince the ceos to join up

now how complicit is barb specifically with the enclave

is she just a vault tech executive or something more?

[coarse grove]

It's probably more of the fact that their survival hinges on the Enclave, maybe. Like if the meeting goes well, the situation is that much more difficult for both factions.

so there's a vested interest for Barb to make the meeting go well.

They could be threatening her, too, who knows.

[violet plover]

Probably Vault-Tec but has to answer to the Enclave, I'm guessing Hank as her assistant is the actual Enclave guy

[lofty needle]

fair

[coarse grove]

That's true, we don't know how Hank joins Vault Tec, he could've been planted into Vault Tec.

We only know Hank met Coop pre-war.

[lofty needle]

hank has basically gone rogue at this point, seeing as hes gone against the vault 33 experiment twice now

then again maybe he is still following vault tech orders given specifically to just him

[coarse grove]

Yeah but given he's the highest rank in Vault 33, it's safe to assume he specifically might've had different orders, or is altering things for his agenda for whoever he claims to be working for.

Actually with Magnus showing the picture earlier, im not 100% sold on the person being House, anymore.

I'm more 50/50.

[lofty needle]

it could be red herring all that stuff about how this person grew up in vegas implying house

and just be someone completely different

[coarse grove]

Yeah.

[lofty needle]

what if its barb lol (unlikely)

[coarse grove]

Oh god, idk if i'd like that.

[lofty needle]

actually i think hank calls the person sir if i remember right

[coarse grove]

Yeah, he does.

[late wedge]

Hank’s real aspirations were always to be a mad scientist but he was relegated to middle management 😔

[lofty needle]

i fear finding out the truth for barb will take a really long time if they decide to reveal it at the end of the cooper flashback chronology

[torpid cargo]

Was Budd aware of all this happening by chance?

[lofty needle]

i think budd was firmly just being used by vault tech to create that team for the 33 experiment

[coarse grove]

He was not, and he's dead now too which kinda means he was pretty expendable.

They didn't do much to offer bud protection, or security.

[lofty needle]

and they put his brain in a jar on a roomba lol

[coarse grove]

Yeah.

[violet plover]

There is how he seemed to have an immediate grasp of how to use power armor. When we're shown Maximus took a while to adjust.

[coarse grove]

It's why I think he could be an Enclave plant tbh. Or a double agent.

We have no idea how Hank joined Vault tec.

[violet plover]

Could also just be he's a resource wars veteran.

[lofty needle]

both options could be the case

[coarse grove]

Could be. Yeah.

[lofty needle]

i didnt think about that before though, it is interesting he doesnt need PA training

[coarse grove]

Means he's had experience and training prior most likely.

[lofty needle]

i like this idea cause it could add another layer to the shady sands thing

[coarse grove]

Explains how he knew to rig a nuke and where he could've gotten one.

[normal veldt]

So y'all think him using global comms at the Vault-tec HQ to contact "Mr. House" might be a red herring?

[silver river]

Crazy far fetched theory that lowkey makes sense

Maybe he wasn’t talking to house on the radio an it was the enclave

Crazy plot twist

[weary sorrel]

And maybe he's also trying to play House as well?

[silver river]

And they have super mutant soldiers

🤤

I love me some enclave

[weary sorrel]

At least it's a different plan than another variation of 'FEV-induced killpeopleism' that didn't work both times it was attempted.

[silver river]

Yea

I’ve watched the show 4 times as a true fallout fan should

[weary sorrel]

Does make wrangling the Remnants in NV to fight for the NCR kinda awkward in retrospect.

[coarse grove]

We don't know who he was talking to - genuinely. We assume it's house but given what Magnus posted earlier, I'm not convinced it is anymore.

Like I said im 50/50 on it now.

[silver river]

A lil not really because the NCR has good values and all these people have changed and aren’t all about wiping out all humans except them

[coarse grove]

Where as before I was like 70/30, more House.

[silver river]

Show me what he posted

[normal veldt]

Didn't the Enclave try to make Deathclaw super soldiers as well? If the mind control device can work on larger creatures
Well, needless to say the wasteland will start to fear the shadow government again

[coarse grove]

The device looks too similar.

[silver river]

They didn’t only try they did

[coarse grove]

And like @lofty needle said, the Scientists IN THAT SPECIFIC COMPOUND have Pipboys.

[silver river]

Could very well be the enclave I’m split

[weary sorrel]

I wonder if Hank used that mind control device on Lucy and Norm to make sure any lingering memories of the surface couldn't 'dispute the narrative', so to speak. Gaslighting could certainly work, but it never hurts to be absolutely sure no edge cases could arise.

[coarse grove]

They did, my comment earlier. It would not be far-fetched to think the Enclave is attempting more than just mindcontrolling Deathclaws again. We know Dogmeat was an experiment -
So we know that other animals could be to.

[normal veldt]

The intelligent deathclaws were massacred by Frank Horrigan due to their insubordination iirc
So the first iteration of Enclave deathclaw super soldiers was pretty much a failure, right?

[coarse grove]

In a way, yes, but Goris would claim otherwise.

In the Enclave's eyes, yes

but in FO3

We encounter mind controlled Deathclaws around DC

remember they have the collars, too

but they're not super soldiers

they're just deathclaws with control collars

[weary sorrel]

Considering that Vault complex Hank's in was looking into miniaturizing the devices, maybe the end goal for the Enclave is something like their FEV global saturation plan from 2, but replace the FEV with miniature mind control chips instead?

[barren plume]

I assume that vault tec doesn’t have access to the same mind control that the enclave has

Given they are different variants of it

Also I guess it’s possible other intelligent deathclaws could have been made or survived but if so we don’t know

[coarse grove]

Vault tec is probably who gave it to the Enclave.

We see it in 3 places.

House. Vault Tec. Enclave.

[barren plume]

Fair

[coarse grove]

It's safe to assume House's version came first.

[normal veldt]

Oh, it was more like a helmet, wasn't it?

[coarse grove]

Kind of?

Let me find it.

[barren plume]

Maybe the kind seen on deathclaws are tailor made for them and don’t work on others, or simple flawed

[raven fossil]

could we assume that house sold vault tec the technology?

[coarse grove]

Yes

And they exchanged it with the Enclave

Because we know the Enclave and Vault tec are in-bed with each other.

[barren plume]

Maybe the enclave took it and simply developed it further, like a split branch

[coarse grove]

That's what im thinking.

[weary sorrel]

Still, at what point would the Enclave and House split?

[coarse grove]

We don't know if the Enclave and House even were in-bed with each other. We only know that Vault Tec and Enclave were.

So it's more like the technology exchanged hands from House, to Vault Tec, then from Vault Tec to Enclave.

It's safe to also assume Vault tec kept iterating on it, maybe working in tandem with the Enclave? Enclave using it on animals, Vault Tec trying to make it work on Humans.

[lofty needle]

I lowkey completely forgot about the f3 deathclaws the enclave had

[coarse grove]

As did I until we started talking about mind-controlled beasts

[barren plume]

Pretty sure they are exclusive to 3

At least I think so

[raven fossil]

and after the war vault tec stopped working on it while the enclave continued?

[coarse grove]

Yeah, no faction in Fallout 4 could manage it aside from the Institute.

[lofty needle]

Also for specifically hanks vault, do we think the reason they want to miniatures the technology is so they can implant mind controlled agents into factions like for example the bos

Make it so small no one will know theyre mind controlled

[barren plume]

That or they wanna mind control something small

But probably the former

[weary sorrel]

Wonder if we'll be eternally paranoid about future bad guy factions being secretly Enclave catspaws after the show.

[coarse grove]

Yeah, that would be the safest assumption.
It could imply Vault Tec pushed it as far as they could - and the Enclave might've only stopped during positions of rebuilding. I.E. they probably stopped after the oil-rig, and then started back up in Raven Rock. After Raven rock they stopped, and now they're starting back up again.

Each iteration of Enclave shows they have some interest in mind-controlling beasts, or animals. I believe.

[coarse grove]

Well we know Hank wants to get rid of the factions. So it's probably more of the case he wants it smaller so no one can realize they're being mindcontrolled. But to some extent, he's even killing Vault tec people for his agenda. Which makes me believe he's not fully invested into Vault Tec specifically.

[violet plover]

Personally with Hank likely dying, BoS civil war likely to be reseolved this season, the downplaying of Vault-Tec, and that it's unlikely they'll make Mr. House the ultimate villain. It is very likely they're going to have the actual villains be a twist

[barren plume]

Also this is a bit off topic but the east coast brotherhood are specifically referred to as the commonwealth

Makes me wonder if the capital wasteland splintered, if it was abandoned, or that it all falls under the “commonwealth” even if it isn’t physically located there

Also wonder if we’ll see any other chapters like the Mojave, Lost Hills (assuming that isn’t who we’ve been following), or Midwest given they weren’t in that meet up

[normal veldt]

Do you think Mr. House will survive this season?

[cold jetty]

I think they’re calling it the commonwealth because it’s more recognizable tbh

[coarse grove]

The Capital Wasteland is confirmed to be 100% under Maxson's rule.

[violet plover]

I think they might leave it ambiguous if he's alive or dead. Coopervwill talk to some kind of failsafe message House left for him

[coarse grove]

I'll find the quote.

[barren plume]

Even as of when the show takes place?

[barren plume]

I always felt both were recognizable but maybe

[coarse grove]

It's only 9 years after, I highly doubt Maxson would lose his primary recruiting source so fast like that.

Not without a specific event occuring.

[normal veldt]

Ok that makes more sense

[lofty needle]

Ooh the idea of that scene being a failsafe message is intriguing

I hadn't considered that

[coarse grove]

I'm not so sure, I think House will be alive, I don't think he'll be dead even though it's gonna make people mad that he's alive.

[normal veldt]

So a cryptic message from Mr. House in the last episode basically

[barren plume]

I guess you never know but that seems likely unless they reveal something

[raven fossil]

that means that house expected cooper

[coarse grove]

I mean we can use context clues in Lore, from Fallout 4 - the Capital Wasteland has been thriving because of Maxson and project purity.

and the outright confirmations people give us.

[violet plover]

I could see them having House make a deal with Cooper to take refuge in Vegas to survive the Great War

[silver river]

But it was technically successful they did make them intelligent

[normal veldt]

I guess they can say we only managed to kill his body double or something

[silver river]

He’s def alive they hyping him up too much

[violet plover]

Even Cooper being the one who was supposed to deliver the Platinum Chip on the day of the Great War

[coarse grove]

Or we didn't kill him at all.

[silver river]

As much as I as I hate to say it house is canon I will never get my yes man ending

[barren plume]

That’s true

Still wish Sarah Lyons wasn’t killed between games but that’s a whole other discussion

[cold jetty]

Fallout 4 sold more and fallout 4 is the last mainline game with the brotherhood. Commonwealth is definitely more recognizable

[silver river]

Killing her off screen is so sad

[coarse grove]

There's no confirmation the Courier killed House. Like I said people keep operating off of the assumption an ending has been chosen, when it hasn't.
If the Courier only delivered the Chip, and the Securitrons got upgraded - then House is alive. Unless someone else killed him.

[coarse grove]

She died on fucking patrol of all places.

[silver river]

Exactly

[silver river]

Bethesda is lazy asf

[violet plover]

I could be wrong but I remember a lot of people hated Sarah Lyons for being "rude". I wonder if Bethesda offscreened her for that

[coarse grove]

This is also true.

[coarse grove]

The Harsh truth is, they offscreened her for Maxson - and it paid off because he became iconic for the Brotherhood, and memes.

[silver river]

Sarah lyons wasn’t rlly rude she just didn’t take us into the brotherhood at first because of the fact they had way to many soldiers as it was

[barren plume]

As much as I love 3 I guess that’s fair even if disappointing

[silver river]

They could’ve kept both imo

[raven fossil]

oxhorn said she died fighting super mutants is that canon

[coarse grove]

No, they said in lore she wasn't competent to be a leader.

[coarse grove]

Yes, she died fighting mutants on patrol.

[barren plume]

Yeah I wish she had appeared in 4, I can understand killing Owen between games but with her there was so much potential

[coarse grove]

You can find the holotape report on the Prydwen.

[silver river]

Who the fuck is Owen

[violet plover]

One Brotherhood Elder died to a poisoned dart from the Vipers tribe

[coarse grove]

Owen Llyons.

[barren plume]

The elder in 3

[violet plover]

Owyn

[silver river]

OH

My bad guys

I’m a lil wasted

[lofty needle]

Tbf owen lyons did not look like a guy who would be called owen lol

[normal veldt]

Yes but higher intelligence also means a strong desire for free will (and not wanting too much senseless violence)
The deathclaws actually managed to coexist with the humans in that vault instead of eliminating them
By Enclave logic they failed

[silver river]

Well they did get mind controlled in fallout 3 so I think it was a success

[coarse grove]

This is why i said by the Enclave's perspective, it failed.

[silver river]

You do bring up good points tho

[violet plover]

The Head Paladin in F1 was called Rhombus

[raven fossil]

he has the classic fo3/fnv old man look lol

[normal veldt]

Oh I thought you meant the first iteration of Enclave deathclaws

[silver river]

Gtg eat cya I’ll be back later

[violet plover]

There was also Vree

[lofty needle]

Na but like thats kinda hard

[coarse grove]

The full lore context on the Capital Wasteland with Maxson.

"As of 2287, Elder Maxson's reign in the Capital Wasteland was uncontested, and his authority and influence were spreading across the East Coast. The Prydwen was a key element of the Brotherhood's power projection, rallying people to his cause. In addition, Maxson had been in contact with other chapters over the years. In the words of Proctor Quinlan, who documented Maxson's rise, "he has the full support of the Elders back on the West Coast, who have proudly reported that they've begun eradicating cults that have popped up, worshipping Maxson as though he's some kind of god." Maxson was offended by the idea of being deified, as it went against his beliefs. He is satisfied with being, again in Proctor Quinlan's words, "the perfect human specimen, an example of everything a human being can achieve. Assisted, even enhanced, by advanced technology, but still very much human.""

[lofty needle]

Enjoy the food bro

[barren plume]

But yeah they could have had Sarah killed in 4, had a conflict between her and an outcast lead Maxon, or even had her show up as a ghoul or something and say she was left for dead or assumed dead and her death didn’t happen outside of the brotherhood reports

Idk just lots of options

[barren plume]

Yeah

[violet plover]

Old people in F3/NV are technically a different "race" in the game engine like Ghouls, it's why they all look the same and have the same 3-4 hairstyles

[coarse grove]

And in regards to Sarah Llyons, and other leaders like her, this is what is said -

"The key change in Arthur Maxson's life came with adolescence and the death of Elder Owyn Lyons, and subsequently that of Elder Sarah Lyons soon after. While the crumbling Lyons' Brotherhood of Steel chafed under the leadership of one ineffectual elder after another, Maxson rapidly developed his talents. In 2279, at the age of 12, he managed to kill two raiders on a training patrol, saving the squad that was supposed to escort him. A year later, he managed to single-handedly kill a deathclaw, taking grave wounds in the process and a disfiguring scar that marred his face forever. His key achievement came in 2282, at the age of 15, when he killed a super mutant leader named Shepherd, who was trying to reorganize the remnants of the Capital Wasteland super mutant infestation. This achievement revealed another secret: that the West Coast elders were still monitoring their errant brethren. With Maxson's achievement came leadership and promotion to a provisional elder."

[raven fossil]

oh cool

[barren plume]

Yeah I know of the lore but just feel they could have handled it differently

[barren plume]

Yeah pretty sure in 3 they also all share the same voice actor

[silver river]

And the eggnog is peak

[coarse grove]

At least for me, when I saw Maxson as a Squire in FO3, it was kind of inevitable that he'd take over.

[lofty needle]

13 year old arthur casually killing a deathclaw lmao

[coarse grove]

He's actually kind of unhinged. Lmao

And it was because the other soldiers were too slow to do it.

[barren plume]

I know there’s the fan theory that someone had Sarah killed but no concrete evidence for it

[coarse grove]

No, the theory is that the outcasts orchestrated her death, not that Maxson had her killed.

[barren plume]

Yeah I know I changed it

[normal veldt]

Hmm, so what happened to the Pitt after Maxson took over?

[violet plover]

He had a crush on her

[raven fossil]

yeah west coast bos is cooked

[coarse grove]

It's still up and running as far as we know, it's how the Prydwen would've been made and the Vertibirds.

[normal veldt]

Prydwen was made from scrapping Rivet City iirc

[coarse grove]

In order for the East to operate as they have been with this much expansion, they NEED industry, they wouldn't be able to do it otherwise.

[barren plume]

No they didn’t scrap the city just that’s where they got the stuff for the power source

[violet plover]

There's a theory that the reactor is from rivet city

[coarse grove]

They didn't scrap the city, the power source is just from there.

[violet plover]

It was built using scrap from Adam's Air Force Base

[coarse grove]

My point is - to continously expand for 9 years.
You would need consistent industry. The only way to get that is via the Pitt, the Air Field base, Rivet City - the technological places in DC would only last to supply them so long.

You would need a consistent source.

[pure kernel]

they also have the entirety of boston, an absolute goldmine of technology and resources

[normal veldt]

So what happened to the residents then?

[barren plume]

Last we hear of the Pitt it either still is under Asher’s control or is under the slaves control

[violet plover]

Arthur Maxson also didn't actually reverse that many of Elder Lyons' policies. So the idea that the Outcasts did it to get a sympathetic Elder in power is just wrong

Not to mention there were a few Elders between Sarah and Arthur

[coarse grove]

They probably got freed, or they live under the BoS rule. But again, BoS rule, while cultish, it's not hell. So far, every information we've gotten says life is relatively safe.

[pure kernel]

Arthur probably loved the man as a father figure anyway, he grew up with owen

[barren plume]

Arthur is definitely more aggressive and ideologically different than Lyons tho

[coarse grove]

Yeah, and he definitely was fond of Sarah.

[pure kernel]

Not necessarily

He was definitely more headstrong, but the ideology isn't much different between the two.

[normal veldt]

You mean the Pitt? I thought Rivet City was a free city

[coarse grove]

I was referring to the Pitt, Rivet City is another story entirely.

[pure kernel]

You also have to realize that Arthur has access to a more combat ready and resource excess brotherhood, he can do more

[barren plume]

I mean there’s logs that have people hating on Lyons and also in 4 they ask you to force farms to give shares of food

Tho both did seem to dislike mutants

Maxon just seemingly a bit more

[normal veldt]

What happened there?

[violet plover]

The closest is actually Caesar's Legion funnily enough. They don't directly rule over anyone but their own people (who are more part a military organization than a nation) but patrol the area. Basically Military occupation or a protectorate.

[pure kernel]

the farm quest is unsanctioned by proctor teagan, not an official order

Life under the Brotherhoods country is likely some sort of feudal caste system

[coarse grove]

It's unclear, actually.

[scenic wolf]

Liberty prime showing up in the show would be cool and probably possible

[pure kernel]

Liberty Prime is combat effective as of Fallout 4, so probably

basically just chilling at the airport last we saw

[coarse grove]

Yeah, people have this misconception that people suffer, or constantly die under the Brotherhood's rule but it's not the case.

And to conquer the Wasteland and keep it sustained, you need trade.

[raven fossil]

if they have the budget

[coarse grove]

Which implies Maxson is trading with cities or territories in the East.

[barren plume]

Well mutants certainly do

[pure kernel]

I'd imagine that the brotherhoods rule is largely peaceful and law is left to locals or maybe some sort of local nobility installed by the brotherhood

[coarse grove]

Yes, but I'm specifically talking about humans or Wastelanders, the only real faction that accepts Mutants willingly as citizens is the NCR. But even then, they still kinda outcast them and have a super ignorant belief of them.

[pure kernel]

Especially since they marched their army to the commonwealth

[normal veldt]

I wonder what happened to Filly, pretty sure BoS occupied the town under the command of Quintus, a ruthless man

[violet plover]

For instance Megaton or Rivet City would be an independent city with its own leaders and laws but the Brotherhood protect them in exchange for favorable trade and volunteer recruits

[coarse grove]

And we know it's not severely cultish because Maxson hates cults, or people to make him out to be a deity or saint.

To the point he outright kills them.

[pure kernel]

it quite literally got mowed down, townfolk and all, by Quintus's brotherhood

a pilot mentions how the locals put up a defense but they were put down harshly

[barren plume]

The Followers of the Apocalypse do too

And the unity I guess but they’re not around anymore

And there’s the children of atom but different sects believe different stuff

[normal veldt]

That's also where they got their recruits, there's a chance that Paladin Harkness could've been someone related to the synth Harkness (or the Railroad changed his face again? Lmao)

[raven fossil]

quintus has to go

[violet plover]

Wonder if the Followers of the Apocalypse will ever appear, they seem the right faction for Lucy

[pure kernel]

considering there was no mention of the followers or the boneyard in season 1, dont get your hopes up about them lol

[coarse grove]

Yeah but the Followers don't have a large enough society in terms of - having a whole city under their belt is what I mean, or have a gignatic place to call their own.
I was more so referencing that the Brotherhood, when they occupy such a large scale land like DC. Their rule is relatively peaceful. I imagine they pump recruits out of it.

[violet plover]

Ma June's log book did have a logo that's oddly similar to the Follower's emblem that they did linger on for a shot.

But she didn't really seem followers material

[pure kernel]

idk ma june definitely seemed like a punk

maybe not of the medicinal variety though

[normal veldt]

Is Ma June still alive?

[pure kernel]

her shop got turned into an armory, so probably not

[violet plover]

Her shop was abandoned when the Ghoul stimpaked Dogmeat, seems she fled before

[coarse grove]

Yeah, i imagine places like Tenpenny, Megaton, Rivet City, etc etc. All still have respective leaders. And the Brotherhood exchanges with them often, you would HAVE to there's no way around ignore that.

[pure kernel]

The brotherhood probably just demands feudal tithes from every town in exchange for protection, but is pretty hands off other than that

[coarse grove]

Food and supplies, yeah, or recruits.

[pure kernel]

they do it in fallout tactics, so I'd imagine DC is somewhat similar lol

[normal veldt]

Not sure about the tower and Megaton, there's no way they'll bring up those places
"Fog of war" won't allow it

[violet plover]

Confessor Cromwell is mentioned in Far Harbour

[coarse grove]

Not saying they'll bring it up, more so saying under Maxson's rule, those places would be fine, or even prosper without having to worry about threats. Probably even expand, too.

[normal veldt]

He probably survived the detonation, the Atom ⚛️ wills it

[pure kernel]

I highly doubt megaton exploding is canon

[coarse grove]

There's no way.

[normal veldt]

That's assuming you didn't blow it up or let the ghouls overrun the tower (no way Maxson's BoS will leave them alone)

[pure kernel]

those are both dubious endings at best lol

[coarse grove]

This. lol

[pure kernel]

kinda meant to be the bad options, bad options aren't usually canonized

[violet plover]

It's kind of easy to see why Maxson is like that in 4 tbh, even those loyal to Owyn Lyons mention he went soft of heart after the Scourging of the Pitt.

[normal veldt]

Hmm, so canon Nate the Rake took out all raider gangs of Nuka World by himself?

[pure kernel]

Plus, as we know from fallout 4, DC is prospering (in fallout terms anyway lol) Macready mentions the safety forcing mercenary business to dry up, there is a limitless supply of fresh water distributed, the brotherhood is running the place so much so that some soldiers call it a "country", I doubt one of the main populace centers is gone lol

[pure kernel]

Yeah, pretty normal stuff for a protag to do

thats super low tier on main character shit that has happened in the series lol

[coarse grove]

Nuka World is mostly just flavor.

Because people wanted to be bad, and we didn't really have that in FO4.

[normal veldt]

Institute ain't bad?

[pure kernel]

Yup, it was just bethesda's answer to people who wanted to be bad guys

[coarse grove]

It would make sense Nuka World's canon was Nate killing the raiders and freeing the slaves.

[pure kernel]

The institute is bad but alot of people found it boring as hell, it didn't compare to nuking megaton, being a raider, or being in the legion.

[violet plover]

Institute are more a banal kind of evil. Nerds in their ivory tower kind of deal

[coarse grove]

In comparison to the choices you make in other Fallout games, no.
It's bad, but everyone didn't find them interesting for evil playthroughs. People kept referring to them as 'grey' or 'morally dubious'. People wanted more OBJECTIVELY evil decisions that offered that freedom of choice.

Being a Raider enabled you to actually physically go out and Kill MM, and Subjugate their settlements.

[pure kernel]

Yeah the institute, while they do alot of bad things, aren't MUH PSYCHO EVIL, like factions like legion, enclave, raiders, etc

[normal veldt]

The problem with Tenpenny Tower is that you'll end up getting all the human residents killed if you choose to help the ghouls

[coarse grove]

This. ^ People wanted more flavor of this in Fallout 4.

[pure kernel]

and thats why its a good quest

its a very morally grey outcome no matter what you choose

[violet plover]

Tbh if the exact same thing happen in NV people would call it peak writing, talking to Roy shows how little peace would last

[pure kernel]

Indeed

Roy had all the right reasons to be pissed, but he was also an extremist with a bloodlust

[violet plover]

I think you can avoid it too by killing Roy between making peace and the Ghouls killing the human residents

[pure kernel]

Tenpenny is a dickhead, as are many other residents, but there are also good ones like the retired adventurer who's just chilling out

[normal veldt]

Yeah but that's really specific
If there's a canon ending for Tenpenny Tower, it's probably gonna be very sad ngl (the ghouls will get wiped out by BoS if they choose to kill all the regular human residents)

[pure kernel]

the residents wouldn't exactly be thrilled to bend the knee to the brotherhood either

Either way it ends badly in the end

[coarse grove]

This is true, that security team are pieces of shit. Lol

They would hate anyone that isn't Tenpenny.

[violet plover]

Even Maxson's BoS don't kill non-ferals on sight, Danse is bigoted but he draws the line at violence

[normal veldt]

They won't be stupid enough to throw hands with literal war machines

[coarse grove]

Yeah, he makes comments about Hancock, but he tolerates and coexists with him.

[pure kernel]

And in regards to super mutants, they are completely justified on killing on sight considering the circumstances, but they're nice to Fawkes atleast lol.

[coarse grove]

with the amount of super mutant uprisings they have dealt with

im not surprised it's kill on sight

and they killed one of their previous elders

[normal veldt]

Fawkes probably had to go into hiding and went on to travel with the LW

[pure kernel]

true, but he also chillaxed in the citadel until you woke up and you can have dialogue with him

so he was there for atleast a couple week s

[normal veldt]

I wonder if Maxson's BoS have managed to recover the data for the serum that could cure super mutants from the institute

[coarse grove]

Maxson's BoS got all of the Institute's data.

All of it.

That was the purpose of the quest you did when you go in.

[normal veldt]

So they can basically make the East Coast mutant free if they start making that serum huh

[coarse grove]

They would have to do a lot of work to probably get it going - I don't believe they have the scientists for it, the thing to understand is while they have the Institute's information. They would need the proper minds for stuff specifically like replicating or making the serum. If they manage to get a scientist who can, it's possible. But I wouldn't put typical scribes on par with the Institute's eggheads. They were ahead of their game.

Like I imagine what Maxson's brotherhood got was a shit ton of locations and information on Institute tech, bases, people, projects, etc etc.
they would have a list of all the synths too.

[torpid cargo]

The BoS would kill everyone in the institute wouldn’t they? No “United states hiring nazi scientist” moments?

[normal veldt]

Li was recruited

[coarse grove]

They'd give them an option.

Either work for us, or you can get executed.

[coarse grove]

Yeah but they kind of blackmailed her.

LOL

[normal veldt]

Idk why a BoS that controls the Commonwealth, Capital Wasteland and the Pitt can't find a way to start manufacturing a serum that would make a lot of their missions much easier
It should be their top priority
Heck, a lot of the East Coast BoS died to super mutants, are they really just gonna ignore its potential (cos Bethesda writing?)

[torpid cargo]

Oh good point, That’s kinda funny considering the reason Li even went to the institute is because she hated the brotherhoods actions in DC.

“Yeah we know you left us and hate our methods and joined our future enemy, but welcome aboard”

[coarse grove]

Li was only there for Owen.

She didn't agree with the Brotherhood entirely. She only went there cause she had no one else, she never said she liked the Brotherhood.

And Owen was involved to an extent with the first project.

[normal veldt]

Li is a bit of a-nvm
Anyway, I remember Virgil actually contacted her about the cure if you gave him the serum
So yeah, the BoS or the institute should be able to keep making that thing

[coarse grove]

If you remember Owen even comments on it, it seemed like your Dad, Owen, and Li were friends, at the very least.

[silver river]

I’m back slimes

[normal veldt]

Owyn is too chill, it's almost like Obsidian basically went "what if Owyn is evil" when they came up with Father Elijah (he's also a visionary but extremely cruel)

[coarse grove]

I'll explain why in a sec -

Why that the Brotherhood probably wont.

Or rather, can't.

[tired yew]

A lot can happen in 9 years. If Maxson died this level of discord between regions could manifest but otherwise there's very little indication of differences this deep in any earlier game

It's also basically impossible for the eastern brotherhood to share with the west due to the whole completely opposite sides of the country thing

[coarse grove]

It literally isn't when its show that the Eastern Brotherhood has shared just fine.
The likely answer is that Maxson specifically chose not to share with certain West Chapters because of what they represented. And as Magnus pointed out, the only discord in the West is 4 chapters, the rest of the Chapters didn't answer to Quintus's call.

[coarse grove]

And this only makes sense if you ignore every lore implication & confirmation and forgo all logic around the East's position.

[tired yew]

4 chapters may still be a significant fraction of the brotherhood's manpower, it's not really clear tbh

[coarse grove]

It literally isn't, but alright. lol

[tired yew]

These aren't Vegas level chapters operating out of an individual repurposed VIP bunker

[coarse grove]

Never said they were, but these Chapters are not experienced, nor do any of them have anyone above a Knight.

[tired yew]

That does strike me as odd given that they still have elders and quintus apparently has jurisdiction over the once capital of the NCR

[coarse grove]

These are not Chapters that have significant firepower outside of one airship, and it's obvious Maxson and Xander escape - so they turn on each other. Maxson's focus is still the East, that much is clear. Plus the Chapters we see are not significant because they don't hold any Council of Elders.

The Council of Elders in the West back Maxson entirely, also probably why none of them showed up. It was probably a resource expendeture, but also because it wasn't smart.

[tired yew]

Maxson and Xander? Maxson is present?

[coarse grove]

Maximus, my bad.

[tired yew]

Quintus is in the west

[coarse grove]

He's not on the Council of Elders. Lol

[tired yew]

Why not he is an elder

[coarse grove]

The Council of Elders is a significant position, and just because you're an Elder it doesn't put you on the Council???

[tired yew]

So it's not even an actual diplomatic body at that point

[coarse grove]

You have to be a High Elder to be on the Council, Quintus isn't a High Elder.

[latent cave]

Do ppl really think that FNV deathclaw design were better??

[tired yew]

How many high elders have there been

[coarse grove]

Unless they changed it, I'm pretty sure tha'ts how it's worked.

[coarse grove]

I'm not sure, I prefer Fallout 4's, personally.

[tired yew]

There isn't one in 1, 3, 76, or NV iirc

Probably wasn't one in 2 either but we never interact with that level of administration in 2

[latent cave]

Yeah, same. But I do have seen ppl complaining about it

[coarse grove]

Then they aren't part of the Council.

[tired yew]

The only high elder I'm aware of is Maxson himself

[coarse grove]

No he's above High Elder.

[tired yew]

And he is proclaimed to be in charge of the entire brotherhood by that point

[coarse grove]

He's Supreme Commander.

[tired yew]

So what is the difference between a high elder and an elder

[coarse grove]

More Authority, and dictating power - especially involving meetings of other Elders, and in matters of interpretations of the Codex.
Magnus could correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there's a big difference.

[tired yew]

More authority over who

[coarse grove]

The Brotherhood.

[tired yew]

Elders still command entire chapters and there's no evidence of higher jurisdiction above any of the elders we do actually meet until Maxson

[coarse grove]

If an Elder makes a decision, and a High Elder overrides that decision - the High Elder's decision is what takes precedent.

[tired yew]

The wiki suggests that a high elder is the supreme leader of the brotherhood

Apparently there were a few referenced in fallout 1 (Maxson's immediate successors mainly)

Besides that it's only Arthur Maxson

[silver river]

I have the highest authority

[tired yew]

Apparently quintus is a cleric rather than a direct elder (per the wiki) which may explain some of this confusion

[coarse grove]

Makes more sense, then, cause there should be more High Elders if Maxson's successors were High Elders - but it could be chalked up to them not naming anyone.

[silver river]

[coarse grove]

But even then it wouldn't change too much cause it would still mean more that Quintus is even more out of line if he's starting a coup without the rest of the Elders present, simply because they chose not to appear at the meeting.

But we also know that Maxson has aborsbed dozens of other Chapters under his belt.

That much is confirmed, and undeniable.

[silver river]

There’s prolly like a high elder an then the highest elder or they choose one elder to represent them

[tired yew]

I didn't even know there were other chapters operating on the east coast

[coarse grove]

He absorbed them all.

[tired yew]

It seems like the 'high elder' is the highest elder

[silver river]

Okay so that’s maxson

[coarse grove]

Maxson's reach stretches not just in the East - but across the Eastern Seaboard.

[silver river]

The elders all probably elect someone to represent each chapter

[tired yew]

But the east apparently has clerics too

[silver river]

So like within each chapter there is a elder leader

[tired yew]

There is only ever one elder in a chapter at a time

[coarse grove]

Yeah, no one's denying that.

[silver river]

It’s all across America is it not? So his reach goes all the way to California

[silver river]

So what’s the issue

[tired yew]

Which would suggest that whatever has changed in the brotherhood has changed the east too

[coarse grove]

That's what Proctor Quinlin says, and what's confirmed by NPCs.

[lost marten]

What I find funny is them trying to focus on like 70 different plots

[coarse grove]

Not really no, because it would go against Maxson's ideals if they became too cultish. He hates cults beyond anything else.

[tired yew]

The role is not selected democratically, but this is just confusion at this point

[silver river]

Yall are confusing me

[lost marten]

And now there will be more since the ghoul was left at the hospital an Lucy got captured so that’ll probably be more story lines

[tired yew]

They referenced a council of high clerics in the Commonwealth, not a high elder

[silver river]

They should release 2 episodes next week

They keep edging me

[tired yew]

It shouldn't be possible for there to be multiple high clerics handing down orders in maxson's brotherhood

[lost marten]

Maximus, ghoul, hank, Lucy and the whole vault army.

[tired yew]

Norm is proving to be a fabulous chaos goblin

[coarse grove]

It doesn't change what I said? Clerics can behave differentl in the East vs West. Why are acting like differences can't be applied based off of regions. Especially if it's showcased in the show perfectly?

[lost marten]

I wonder what they’ll do with him I feel like he’s going somewhere dark tho? Like he said the blown to shit wasteland was beautiful

[silver river]

I think they are doing it pretty well they will probably just have the ghoul show up to the legion camp instead of having a storyline of him in the hospital and then norm will probably merge with the normal vault

[tired yew]

The role literally did not exist before the show

[silver river]

This is how it was last season too bro

[lost marten]

Yeah I like it it keeps me focused

[cold jetty]

The chapter that isn’t religious also has clerics.

Clerics and scribes share each others jobs

[tired yew]

Even if there are differences the fact that they are the ones sending orders across the continent rather than Maxson suggests his absence

[lost marten]

There was a lot less storylines tho

[silver river]

No not really it was almsot the same just without Hank

[tired yew]

Scribes usually aren't even able to ascend the chain of command outside of rare exceptions like Elijah

[coarse grove]

Or the High Clerics answer to Maxson?

[silver river]

They all met up prolly next episode so it’ll be Hank the ghoul+lucy norm+the vault and the BOS

So that’s like 4 stories which is last season with Maximus norm the ghoul and Lucy

[lost marten]

I don’t think the ghoul and the BOS will team up I think maximus will go on his own side quest away from them

[cold jetty]

I think the Coronado elder is a scribe

[silver river]

E too

[tired yew]

And apparently sending down orders on his behalf while he's preoccupied with something more important than an enclave turncoat heading for the NCR

[coarse grove]

He did have a scribe outfit.

[lost marten]

The guy on the left is a science scribe

[tired yew]

Could be

[lost marten]

To be specific lmao

[coarse grove]

I do like the set outfits, you were right that they gave them a lot more detail, too.

[coarse grove]

Maximus escapes with Xander, pretty much - but he was in a shootout scene in Hotel in looked like?

[tired yew]

Quintus' chapter must really be exceptionally poor with how excited they got about a freezer

[coarse grove]

He somehow will get to Vegas.

[coarse grove]

They've been deprived of assets, so im not surprised.

[lost marten]

Whole thing is weird one minute he’s a brotherhood jacking off the elder next he’s in the NCR armour that the brotherhood hate

[tired yew]

Them even using ballistics already suggested they were not doing hot

[tired yew]

He's not really cool with quintus, I can only assume moldaver's dying words are bouncing around in the back of his mind in episode 2

[coarse grove]

I'm also pretty sure, the East has been spying on Quintus specifically for a while.
Because there's zero reason Xander got wind of the meeting that fast without someone telling him. But the fact he was already in the area says that they didn't trust Quintus.

[tired yew]

If quintus did send out invitations to every elder it'd be as simple as someone going 'hey what the fuck'

[coarse grove]

He probably just picked up the armor, I think people are reading too much into him and the NCR but that's just my take.

[coarse grove]

Yes, but Xander had to already be in the Mojave.

It wasn't even 24 hours and he was present.

And Xander's words specifically brought up a Civil War.

[tired yew]

He arrived via vertibird, they could've known as recently as, like, 2 days

[lost marten]

Oh yeah also you see the commonwealth BOS have a minutemen united flag no wonder everyone is scared shitless

They have the minutemen, liberty prime, Nate the ex war veteran

[coarse grove]

It doesn't change the fact Xander knew what Quintus said.

Without being at the meeting. lol

[tired yew]

There's not many other reasons for a chapter to relocate and then call a secret summit after securing obscenely valuable tech

Although we probably won't know until the show progresses a bit

[coarse grove]

It's pretty much also a fact that someone snitched, the '2 day' argument doesn't hold up when it was less than 24 hours for Xander to arrive.
And it's pretty clear that the Commonwealth isn't fond of Quintus given they give him bare minimum specifically, and take more than they give from him. Which is a typical tactic to starve out a force -

But it's also pretty much confirmed that the 4 chapters turn on each other.

4 airships present, and they're all firing on each other. With Xander and Maximus getting away.

[tired yew]

2 days is like the maximum possible flight time stopping semi frequently for breaks

It's possible to go from Boston to Vegas in less than 8 hours by air

Besides the other airships were presumably already en route at that point

Which would suggest they'd given advanced notice, else they wouldn't have gotten out there in time

[cold jetty]

So someone snitched to the commonwealth?

Sure it’s not the same as a spy being at the meeting but that’s still something

[coarse grove]

Vertibirds need to be refueled, and probably aren't as fast as planes? so even with Boston to Vegas in mind, Helicopters take 39 hours to travel. Which Vertibirds are more like Aerial vehicles akin to copters than planes.
I'm pretty sure Xander's arrival is less than that given the time of day he arrived , and when the meeting started. Again he had to have been in the area, there's no real way around that logically even if you try to poke holes in it.
Xander could assume it's a civil war sure, but as a liaison unless your confident with your hand, you don't drop something like that. Xander had to have known what was going on - especially enough to where he seems to take Maximus under his wing, and escape with him after the fact.
It's safe to assume there's a Commonwealth spy - or someone fed information.

[tired yew]

He could've been in the area already but dispatched earlier

Zeppelins take significantly longer to travel than any other form of air travel so the arrival of the other delegations necessitates a pretty forgiving timetable

[coarse grove]

There's no reason for someone of his role to be in the area unless they have an ulterior objective, hence why he was probably keeping an eye on them to begin with.

[tired yew]

He was notably sent as a liaison and not as an executioner

[minor citrus]

What did people think of episode 2 in general? I think it was one of the better episodes of the show in general and managed to get every single perspective character perfect for the duration of the episode

[coarse grove]

I never said he was an executioner. Lol He's probably there to disrupt the meeting.

[heady river]

it was fire

[coarse grove]

It was pretty good.

[tired yew]

It could just be as simple as the Commonwealth making it clear they won't tolerate people going behind their backs

[minor citrus]

Maximus specifically I'm really happy about

[heady river]

ranger armor on screen looked gas

as well as the ncr uniforms

[coarse grove]

Yes ofc, it's a show of force.

Saying "Hey, we know what you're doing, quit your shit."

[minor citrus]

I was worried maximuswould be taken less seriously like in season 1 a lot, but he's actually like, kind of badass right now

[tired yew]

Which would be unnecessary if they had a spy because that opens up indirect intervention options and would give them the strategic information necessary to effectively destroy a rebellion before it manifests

[coarse grove]

I wasn't expecting him to look for Quintus's approval to kill that man.

[heady river]

it feels very palpatine and anakin

the relationship between them

[coarse grove]

Not really. Especially if Xander's character is exactly as the reviewers imply he is, he's probably there to make them turn on each other and kill each other.

[silver river]

Maximus is the goat

[minor citrus]

I think he's like, being groomed to be a paladin / maybe even star paladin for the chapter Quintus wants to be in charge of and I fucking love it

[tired yew]

Which a spy could also certainly do

[silver river]

Maybe even sentinel

See how smart I am guys

[coarse grove]

A spy can be anyone feeding information, to sabotaging. A spy's role is not 1 dimensional, they can vary. It's most likely the Commonwealth spy isn't large, and just feeds information here and there without needing to expose themselves. But I digress, kind feel like I've exhausted the topic enough.

[heady river]

xander's coat is pretty sweet

[silver river]

It’s prolly someone important every show does it like that

[minor citrus]

He wears apathy incredibly well, and having him immediately show competence both physically and intellectually was a really good way to make the growth of his character in season 2 clear

[tired yew]

This is ultimately a bit of a side tangent, my main concern overall is whether maximus is even still alive

[coarse grove]

He would be the first proper Paladin we see of Quin's Chapter, I think, we mostly see Knight rankings. Not anyone of larger status in terms of soldiers.

[heady river]

it is kinda weird that theres no paladins in quintus's brotherhood huh

[tired yew]

I'm torn between him being a terrible squire and a pretty great knight

[minor citrus]

Yea, new guy is a paladin and I was thinking about it and everyone we see is predominantly a knight, makes me wonder if Maximus is gonna be on the fast track to a promotion

Quintus will want someone who matches the guy in rank

[coarse grove]

I promise you this, and I'll say this - Bethesda would not build Maxson up in lore so much in Fallout 4, and ignore how iconic he became, only to kill him off, or make him weak. Especially because Bethesda, namely Emil and Todd love their FO3, and FO4 versions of the BoS more than anything. lol

[tired yew]

I was honestly expecting maximus to be declared a paladin outright

[coarse grove]

so was I, im hoping he gets a rank up.

[silver river]

Exactly if they don’t put him in the show I’ll shoot myself

[tired yew]

But they very much could've built him up specifically to have a sudden crash from what seemed to be a bright horizon

[coarse grove]

But i mean, he's a hero in some fashion

[tired yew]

There's also the possibility that the show has a different artistic vision for it which they somehow swayed Todd on

[coarse grove]

I highly doubt it cause it would undo their love-child so to speak. Between Emil, and Todd, it's clear they want their version of the Brotherhood at the forefront to be poster boys.

[tired yew]

Either way this seems very suspect of a Maxson era brotherhood

[silver river]

If maxson ain’t here I’ll shit mysel

[coarse grove]

If Aaron Moten's words are to be taken as gospel, we might see him or hear of him.

[covert galleon]

Ironically that feels more realistic and grim in a way

[coarse grove]

But i wouldn't put your expectations on it.

[coarse grove]

Yeah, but because Maxson kind of crushed on her - it would explain his hatred for Mutants.

[tired yew]

Wasn't she already elder at the time

[coarse grove]

Yes.

Very shortlived.

But after her death, Maxson started taking over.

[tired yew]

An elder... Went on a fucking patrol...

[coarse grove]

Which was 12 years old.

[tired yew]

This is like Oliver walking the towers on the dam

[coarse grove]

Yep, it's annoying af, cause if you read on - it says all the other Elders after her were dumb af too.

[silver river]

He was 12 I don’t think anyone really followed his ordered

[coarse grove]

No but he killed a Deathclaw as a child. lmao

[covert galleon]

History is filled with leaders doing things for morale or that should have been safe and well

Also I think Lyons would want to be out there considering her more interventionist approach

[silver river]

He’s the goat

And he stopped raiders

[cold jetty]

They only said she died on the field

[minor citrus]

It does feel kind of fast, but when you think of his achievements from the Brotherhood perspective, Maximus was a squire who's knight died and he managed to secure cold fusion almost entirely alone, was promoted to knight immediately, kicked ass for awhile showing his prowess against ferals and what not, securing the key to area 51, and then besting a man in single combat who broke the gentlemens agreement of a fight and attacked before the fight had started AND snuck a knife in. Like from the perspective he's the shit

[tired yew]

Sure but on patrols??? Like not even a specific objective?

[cold jetty]

They never said patrol only the field

[covert galleon]

Protecting human settlements or going to visit one for a supply run

[silver river]

E hauled

[cold jetty]

Or in battle

It wasn’t patrol tho

[tired yew]

Given quintus' intentions for Maximus he probably would be a paladin if the codex was still operating as originally written

[minor citrus]

Even though the episode was great, the "patrolling the mojave almost..." bit did come off a bit forced imo

[tired yew]

Maybe the apocryphal high clerics in the Commonwealth have reserved the ability to elevate clerics

[covert galleon]

Okay dumb question what type of robot did the Grand Canyon scribe(?) bang? I can’t imagine the bos would be chill with a synth? So fisto or an assultron?

This is a dumb question, but that’s part of the fun

[minor citrus]

My thoughts too, I'm actually a bit more optimistic after that last episode, first episode had me a smidge worried, but this was like, good stuff

[silver river]

It was a securitron

[tired yew]

There is only one which doesn't raise more questions

[silver river]

It was a robo brain

[covert galleon]

Probably the best possible way to take a meme and insert it in a non blue milk way (love Rogue One though)

[coarse grove]

It felt like it was a jab/joke towards FNV in terms of Fisto - so maybe a Protectron, idk.

[tired yew]

I'm still hoping for Maximus to become the NCR ranger he was always destined to be

[silver river]

He will be he’ll take power eventually im calling it

[cold jetty]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout-assaultron-fallout-76-robot-apron-gif-16475769357374146582

[coarse grove]

I'll be waiting for everyone to get upset he doesn't join the NCR. Lol

[covert galleon]

I guess it’s just the idea of Maxon being chill with Fisto is deeply funny to me

[silver river]

Either he takes power or leaves and starts his own thing

[minor citrus]

Imagine if we get some weird quintus shit where he is like "I once operated as the head Scribe for a different chapter, under the command of an Elder Elijah"

[coarse grove]

Maxson probably didn't know, but it gives more credence as to why he doesn't trust the West to handle anything big tech related. Lol

[tired yew]

The armor teaser and his internal conflict about the brotherhood wouldn't suggest he's confident in his current allegiances

[silver river]

“My real name is paladin harden/macnamera” 😱😱😱

[coarse grove]

We shall see, I'm just saying. Don't be upset when it's not the case.

It was already confirmed Xander steels his resolve with the Brotherhood in one of reviews Magnus posted.

[tired yew]

I also very much want moldaver's death to not be completely in vain so

[silver river]

So I maxson?

[coarse grove]

What?

[minor citrus]

I wouldn't be particularly surprised, I do hope we get some minor reference to elijah specifically, one of my favorite all time characters for fallout.

[silver river]

Will maxson be there what does that mean what u just said

[tired yew]

Probably not

[coarse grove]

No. Xander is the only Commonwealth person there, that we know of. Like I said, Maxson might not show.

[tired yew]

It's not clear that he's alive and if he is he presumably has bigger fish to fry if he's delegating something like this

[covert galleon]

“They discovered Cold Fusion and used it to power a sex robot!?!?!”

[coarse grove]

LMAO

[cold jetty]

Right message wrong messenger.

She had Lucy with a gross raider and gave raiders access to the vault

[silver river]

Fuck me dude wtf

[minor citrus]

Gotta say, I do not like the casting for Xander one bit

[silver river]

That’s what I’d do

[covert galleon]

“Not that I know anything about them. Disgusting robots fetishist.”

[tired yew]

Moldaver isn't supposed to be a sanitized hero, which probably makes her more compelling in Maximus' case

It certainly was in Lucy's

[coarse grove]

Temper expectations. I said it since the start of this season, don't expect to see many characters to games, only references.

[tired yew]

I wonder if aliens are gonna come up more than just the guy in the freezer

They also snuck a Ulysses reference into area 51 which makes me happy

[covert galleon]

I missed that one, what was it?

[tired yew]

Just his icon

It also could've been a flag but its positioning and visibility makes me think it was intentional

[silver river]

Yes but I want to see some more characters from the game like a companion and maybe a random guy like the king or the garrets or cachino or sum

[tired yew]

Marcus is probable

[silver river]

Also like to have a dlc reference

[tired yew]

They could probably sneak in Raul or Dean if they wanted to but that would be borderline excessive levels of fanservice

[silver river]

We deserve it it’s been almost 15 years since we’ve had an answer for nv

We deserve they should be kissing our ass

[silver river]

15 years of waiting only for Dinky and a pool to get moved around

[tired yew]

As long as they don't continue this pattern of major lore implications being left mostly ambiguous I'll be happy

Or even just actually explaining what the fuck is happening

[coarse grove]

They're not gonna commit to anything, or bring characters like Cachino, or garrets into the show.
Expecting anything like that is just gonna leave you disappointed.

I'm calling it now, they've already replaced Caesar and Lanius, they're gonna do their damned best to avoid bringing in old characters - if anything they're only gonna introduce new ones. Like if we see the Van Graffs, it's probably a different family member. Or we might just see their store in the distance.

And like the Kings, they all got turned to ghouls, so that's the only way we see them.

Bethesda's been pretty clear about them not picking a definitive ending, but people have a hard time accepting it - which is valid, but then temper expectations around that specifically.

[tired yew]

Caesar is presumably dead of unfortunately natural causes no matter what

[coarse grove]

Caesar and Lanius are gone or dead, it doesn't matter either way. Caesar's Legion is ruled by the two brothers.

[tired yew]

Lanius idk they probably just can't even cast someone as lanius

Cannot find such a titan

[coarse grove]

Which we actually already saw a picture of the two of them.

[tired yew]

The deep ass voice thing in the trailer doesn't come across as a human character

[coarse grove]

The guy they got for Caesar is like 6'5 or something like that.

[tired yew]

Given the location and the need for more exposition dumps I'm hoping it's Marcus but we'll see

[tired yew]

It would seem that the legion has developed actual craftsmen

[coarse grove]

And started using more ballistics.

designing their guns around their theme and such.

[tired yew]

Ehh, Caesar and co using guns doesn't say too much about their wider doctrine

[heady river]

its gotta be a supermutant

but seeing as this show is shying away from major canon characters besides house, i imagine itll probably be a show original supermutant

[tired yew]

Plot twist it's actually Thaddeus and FEV just went really hard on his throat

[coarse grove]

No but they refused to try to understand them better, my point was just to say that it seems like that aversion was curbed at some point.

[tired yew]

They did always use guns though right

Like yeah they were still using melee weapons but you can find guns at every level of the legion in NV

[coarse grove]

Yes, but as it's quite strictly stated 'they didn't want to become overly reliant on them like the NCR'.

[tired yew]

Ah

[coarse grove]

But it seems given most we see of the Legionnaires so far, and in the trailers, a lot of them have guns AND melee weapons

[tired yew]

Guess that's the tribal ethnocentrism shining through

[coarse grove]

so it seems they have a better understanding, and willingness to use them

[coarse grove]

oh for sure

[tired yew]

I'm glad they've found a faction Lucy can justify not tolerating

Even if it unfortunately means the legion still exists

[coarse grove]

I SWEAR

if she tries to find a way to make them tolerable

and not accept, they are just unhinged

i will crash out

[tired yew]

She will

She'll probably be willing to kill them but not happy about it, I imagine she's sympathetic for the slaves even though they are now apparently being used to lure people(?)

[coarse grove]

nah i think it's more of case of conditioning or something.
I don't think she lured Lucy.

oh yeah

they kill her

i forgot lol

[coarse grove]

LMAO yeah they didn't lure her, i think they tried escaping, and realizing they got fucked or something, and then she decided to go back

[tired yew]

Man. Shit

The ghoul was just being an asshole huh

[coarse grove]

apparently she fights the ghoul again? Unless the shots are chopped weird for the trailer, it looked like Lucy punched the ghoul out of the atomic wrangler window

with her powerfist

which i must say

Lucy having skills in unarmed is pretty good lol

[tired yew]

Their frenemy dynamic is very nice

[cold jetty]

Loved this scene

[tired yew]

I really wonder how the ghoul ends up with maximus on the strip with a gauss rifle, guess we'll just have to wait for context

[coarse grove]

Same

[coarse grove]

It's him, Thaddeus, and Maximus

[coarse grove]

and Maximus is the one who fights the Deathclaw

[tired yew]

I wouldn't have expected that degree of rhetoric from Lucy lowkey

[coarse grove]

Yeah so she does punch the shit out of him and sendh im flying

If this was any other person but a ghoul, they'd be dead

LOL

[tired yew]

She must be really fuckin fed up to be that hostile to the ghoul

[silver river]

This is what I fear I fear they are still salty about nv and are trying to create there own

I think about this all the time

[tired yew]

Seeing as she now knows more about the ghoul's motivations and backstory than any other wastelander alive

[coarse grove]

I genuinely don't blame them. FNV fans are unhinged, lol and the devs are aware of this, so are the showrunners.

Do we all forget what he said at the Awards show?

[tired yew]

They aren't salty about NV that's more console wars style fan canon about the devs

[coarse grove]

"Thank you FNV fans for not burning my house down."

[silver river]

Idc if they are unhinged

[tired yew]

Xbox doesn't hate Sony and Bethesda doesn't hate NV

[coarse grove]

that's fine if you don't, but others clearly do.

[silver river]

He’s a corporate twink he shouldn’t be scared

[coarse grove]

Then don't expect him to cater to your favorite game, lol

[silver river]

It’s good to be optimistic

[tired yew]

Whatever reason they chose to start in the west for it was probably not because of Todd being threatened by the horde of NV players who absolutely hate the idea of Todd ever touching NV

[silver river]

I mean atp every fallout game has a definitive ending except new Vegas like for what?

[tired yew]

Loosely definitive

We still know almost nothing about the actual actions of all the protagonists

[coarse grove]

It was a mix of reasons, to pretend that angering the FNV fandom isn't one of them is a bit disingenous.

[silver river]

I love the fact they are going to nv I wish we got more of it those fans are fake

[tired yew]

Why the fuck would that be a reason

[coarse grove]

I didn't say IT WAS THE ONLY REASON. I said it was probably ONE of them.

[tired yew]

Even as a reason that makes no sense

[silver river]

We know the ending idc about what happens to the protagonist after that tbh

Don’t get me wrong it’d be nice to know but it’s not a big deal

[coarse grove]

And it makes sense because FNV are unhinged, whether you like it or not - they have been volatile, and even in here, happen to be angered pretty easily. lol

[tired yew]

NV is a rich setting and recognizable location, both are much stronger reasons to go to Vegas

[silver river]

Do I fit into said category 🥺

[tired yew]

NV is my favorite game in the series the redditcel NV elitists represent a fractional part of the loud minority online

[coarse grove]

No one denies this, but fnv fans are unanimously jerks to the rest of the others who enjoy anything Bethesda puts out. And we've seen it displayed a bunch especially in episode 1 chat. lol

[tired yew]

Not unanimously, a specific subset of gamergate style doomers who subconsciously hate fun are like that

[silver river]

I’m happy with every fallout game except 76 kind of I just can’t get into it I tried really hard a month or two ago and played a lot like prolly 30-40 hours and I just didn’t like it

It’s not a bad game just not my taste

[tired yew]

Every game has problems NV is just the most captivating to me

[silver river]

I like how free you get to be

I showed my friends fisto and shit

And I showed them me and boone storming cotton wood cove

[tired yew]

Good

[silver river]

Only 1 of them is into it but I got my uncle into it aswell as my parents

I got like 4 people into it technically

So I am a certified fan

[tired yew]

I haven't gotten anybody into it but still enjoy it a lot

[silver river]

It took a lot of convincing but now all those people are hooked on the show and my friend is starting nv

[coarse grove]

My point is -
I agree they're elitists and puritans, but they happen to be an active minority who go out of their way to attack everyone else. You may not view it as a big problem, that's fine, others do and plenty have voiced against it.
And while it was a joke - it was a half-truth of what the showrunners said at the gamer awards in reference to FNV fans. That's all I was saying.
The showrunners saying it as a joke, just indicates that even they are aware of how bad the FNV puritans can be so I don't blame them if that's one of the many reasons they chose not to do specific things this season. There's probably a dozen more other reasons related to Todd, or Bethesda plans, especially with FO5 being confirmed - we have no clue.

[silver river]

Yo what the fuck are you talking about

It ain’t that deep brotochini Alfredo

[coarse grove]

I was just answering his question, that's all.

[silver river]

Oh my bad twin

I’m like out of it

[tired yew]

If they were genuinely concerned about the feedback from the fun hating doomer side of the community they wouldn't even risk a tv show

[coarse grove]

They didn't, you have to remember they thought the show was gonna flop, Bethesda said this a dozen times. lol

[tired yew]

They don't wanna confirm anything about NV probably because of player agency being restricted by it

[coarse grove]

This could be another reason - there's a multiple of means as to why they're doing what they're doing, I'm just saying - there's a reason why they said what they said, and it's not far-fetched to think fan reactions wouldn't be one of them.

[tired yew]

In any case we can't really know

[coarse grove]

Nope, we can only assume!

[tired yew]

Anyways, thoughts about Sinclair representing big mountain and apparently being aware of the entire plan?

[coarse grove]

I'm betting it's his Father tbh.

Sinclair Sr.

[tired yew]

The timeline is seemingly too condensed for that to be the case

[coarse grove]

Could be, i doubt they highlight it in the show any further. But until I see anything else, I doubt it's actually him.

[tired yew]

I'm gonna be really pissed if they don't even acknowledge big mountain beyond that

Putting them in the same room as repconn and robco and then not focusing on Sinclair and big mt any more would be such a vast loss of potential

[coarse grove]

Lol I don't expect them to, but that's just me. I went into this season actually expecting not much FNV references. So for me, anything I get is a treat, no matter how little.

[tired yew]

I doubt they could even get around to it this season, but aren't they approved for at least one more?

[coarse grove]

Season 3 is in pre-production, yes, but Season 3 is ALL Fallout 5 related according to Todd.

[tired yew]

Elder scrolls fans in tears

[coarse grove]

Or at the very least, is building the foundation to setup the events for Fallout 5.

[coarse grove]

WYM TES6 will come out before Fallout 5 for sure. lol

[silver river]

I got a tech jacket compedium for Christmas btw

[tired yew]

It's been in development for so long...

[coarse grove]

Nice - I'm excited to see him in the next season.

or it might be a longer wait, actually.

Since Mark is going to Hell first. lol

[coarse grove]

Yeah, but FO5 isn't even in it's Alpha phase is it? It's still in concept and such - I think they're using the show as a means to solidfy the narrative hook and push forward with it.

They probably have a location picked out and everything, i imagine it's somewhere West.

[tired yew]

5 hasn't had anything mentioned about it yet so it's probably just preparation at this point

[silver river]

Me 2 I read the invincible comic 3 times