EPISODE 2

[coarse grove]

Maxson has been watching the West for sometime, pay attention to how quickly Xander got there to the meeting, it wasn't even 24 hrs. Implies he was already in the West.
And Quintus says that he doesn't like the Commonwealth doesn't share their technology with them. He explains that the Commonwealth would've just taken it - so they hate them because they view Maxson's brotherhood as greedy when in reality, Maxson's being smart about who he let's control major pieces of technology that can shape humanity's outcome.

[weary sorrel]

Maybe Quintus figured it’d be a good idea to ensure there are far less Commonwealth/Maxson loyalists amongst the ranks while also still allowing their deaths to facilitate his own ends?

[coarse grove]

This is a very disingenuous take.
And ignores half of what I said. lol

[coarse grove]

He probably did, I'd buy this.

[ebon furnace]

anyways i think my point is clear, the colorado being clean is not from water purifiers a-la project purity, and that it is likely that the ncr did not have nonirradated water until they began digging into nonirradated ground water

[cold jetty]

I believe that was an oversight, they first called it the Caswennan back in season1 and quintus chapter for most of season 2 is now being associated with the Caswennan

[coarse grove]

Yeah project purity had nothing to do with the clean water in Shady Sands. It was a natural development, if anything.

[sand thicket]

That was from a random article not the actual showrunners and in the show it literally says prydwen on the side of the ship if you look at it

[proven sky]

we dont know enough about the other chapters to assume they dont also have extensive combat experience. and we've never seen a chapter that wasnt made up of hyper competent fighters.

the pitt is definitely a good industrial base. but again, supply lines.

[ember elk]

What conventional explosives do they have access to to take down Liberty Prime? Unless they have Nelis AFB and the plane, they aren't doing much to a walking robot that throws nukes like footballs and shots lasers from his eyes.

[coarse grove]

Yeah but there's another article showing they corrected the name.

[ebon furnace]

again with the conventional explosives

it was literally indestructible until the enclave used their rods from god

[proven sky]

in game liberty prime is invincible for game design reasons. outside of game logic, you hit it with enough mini nukes and it will wear down

[normal veldt]

The NCR at the Observatory were steamrolled until Cooper showed up, there's no way that Quintus would know that some pre-war veteran ghoul would be there

[sand thicket]

Either this airship came from the commonwealth or they call all the airships prydwen

[proven sky]

its a machine made of real metals and components. of course it can be destroyed with explosives

[ember elk]

Wasn't it very limited in capacity? And even if the Brotherhood CAN get into space, how can anyone else?

[cold jetty]

“Random article” that article had the first look for the first season and had information given to them by the showrunners

[coarse grove]

We quite literally do because the show went at lengths to show us how incompetent they are -
And it doesn't change the West in lore has not experienced the combat the East has. This is just fact backed up by lore from actual in-game.

And the West is fractured, undisciplined. The East is confirmed to be the largest Brotherhood coalition of Chapters we've gotten. This is confirmed in Fallout 4, and it's not loose - it's a FIRM grip.

[ebon furnace]

i dont see NCR having a massive amounts of mini nukes and judging from the reactions of the other chapters to 8 fusion cores i dont think they have many, if any, mini nukes

8 FUSION CORES

[errant bobcat]

if no mini nukes the next best thing they can have is some artillery

[sand thicket]

Todd confirmed in an interview that it’s the prydwen

[errant bobcat]

or i guess a copius amount of missile launchers

[cold jetty]

Where

[coarse grove]

There's an article that said the name was different, so which one is it? Lol

[ebon furnace]

which would work if liberty prime wasnt tossing mk28s like its football practice or using liberal amounts of laser beam

[ember elk]

Why use mini-nukes that are indiscriminate? And Liberty Prime WILL detect the launchers and wipe them out with a bigger nuke.

[proven sky]

ngl that level of incompetence kinda just feels like how all characters in universe are being written. in the vaults, in the ncr, in the brotherhood, and in the wastes.

[ebon furnace]

YOU GET A NUCLEAR BOMB, YOU GET A NUCLEAR BOMB, EVERY COMMUNIST WILL RECIEVE A NUCLEAR BOMB

[proven sky]

wdym by that first part

[coarse grove]

If that's the hill you wanna die on that hill sure, it doesn't change anything I said though. It's just a way to try and justify saying the East isn't as big as literally Fallout 4 confirmed it was, and the show confirmed it was.

[ember elk]

Mini-nukes DO NOT CARE who is in the area.

If Liberty Prime is within 100 yards, EVERYONE in the blast radius dies

[ebon furnace]

*bar liberty prime

[proven sky]

all im saying is i dont buy that a unified group of 5 other chapters isnt capable of going toe to toe with an east coast chapter that has to maintain supply lines and fight on the offensive across a 2000 mile span

[errant bobcat]

aren't Primes nukes like bigger as well

[ember elk]

VERY big.

[lofty needle]

Its alright guys fear not. I will end the bos civil war

[torpid cargo]

The US military overlooking liberty prime being vulnerable to his own nukes would be pretty funny.

[proven sky]

so theyre incredibly powerful. sounds like the right tool for taking out a big ass robot

[proven sky]

actually that would be incredible

[ebon furnace]

tbf liberty prime used these nukes in the institute assault and they dont seem to affect it

[proven sky]

lol

[weary sorrel]

Hence why Maxson or whoever’s currently in charge are going to have to rely on either loyalist Chapters in the West or come to the bargaining table with the NCR, preferably both.

Enemy of my enemy and all that jazz.

[normal veldt]

Hmm, I wonder if House has managed to build his own Liberty Prime in secret (as a trump card)

It's his tech after all, there's no way he couldn't make one for himself to protect his home turf

[coarse grove]

Yes and you would be very wrong again, given by every lore confirmation we've gotten otherwise. The East is the largest, and most dominant Chapter.
There is no contest. Even without liberty prime - they have numbers, they have skill, they have a leader, they have industry, they have more technology, they have better equipment, they have better training, they have MORE territory that's bolstered under their control. There is no way the West would stand a chance. EVEN if you remove Liberty Prime. And this is all information IN Fallout 4 and the show gives us. The show just bolsters to show the Commonwealth is bolstered to fuck and maintaining their positions in DC and Boston.

[ember elk]

Nah, smaller. But to everyone else? Bad enough if there is so much as five mini-nuke launchers taking out allies just to take out Liberty Prime.

[torpid cargo]

The brotherhood supply Sargent when Liberty Prime wastes a whole nuke on some NCR military police.

[coarse grove]

And the Fallout show is only 9 years after the events of Fallout 4, so not a very long time.

[ebon furnace]

the commonwealth likely has the resources to sustain these supply lines.

theres 0 chance that the grand canyon, yosemites, and coronado built their own airships, which means that the commonwealth bos has the means of mass producing airships by now

[proven sky]

they have to fight across a 2000 mile distance though. maybe if all the forces of all the chapters were in 1 spot, the east could solo. but the east are on the east lol.

[coarse grove]

THIS. The Pitt is the industry for it. We can assume every Chapter has an airship.

[proven sky]

supply lines

[weary sorrel]

Would be funny if House hacks Liberty Prime using some hidden pre-War backdoor buried in its code.

[proven sky]

sun tzu up in this bitch

[coarse grove]

My brother in christ, you are ignoring basic fact. The East has EXPERIENCE DOING THIS SPECIFICALLY. They are KNOWN to travel long distances, fight in those scenarios, and WIN that is how they CONQUERED the East. How is this so hard to understand?

[ember elk]

Well, House DID help build Liberty Prime.

[weary sorrel]

Brotherhood acting all big and tough until Liberty Prime turns his eye lasers on their airships.

[torpid cargo]

I think the only bottleneck for the East Coast chapters would be reactors. Since there is a finite supply of old warships or facilities to steal them from.

[ebon furnace]

ncr fans thanking god that house is still alive to save them from the BOS:

[sand thicket]

I don’t understand the deal with the airship if Quintus “prydwen” isn’t from the commonwealth where is it from all the people on the base were confused when these knights showed up in season 1

[coarse grove]

Fallout 4 says they conquered the Eastern Seaboard and rallied the other Chapters BY TRAVELING THAT FAR and going out of their way to bolster their ranks, and assist the other Chapters - it's how the other Chapters got absorbed.

[proven sky]

im not sure i follow about the "taking out allies" part. we know from the game that mini nukes are capable of being used in ground combat without causing friendly casualties. maybe it could be tricky to do but if you dont do it then liberty prime is turning your ass into a pile of smouldering ash

[lofty needle]

I am surprised the direction of the tv show isn't to continue the NCR BOS conflict

[ebon furnace]

in s1, prydwen arrives to drop off knights as scout reinforcemetns and prompty fucks off back to the commonwealth
in s2e2, we can clearly see that the airship used by quintus' chapter is the caswennan

[coarse grove]

This is correct.

[torpid cargo]

This honestly should have been season 1, with the nuking of shady sands starting the conflict anew as the NCR blames the Brotherhood.

[sand thicket]

It doesn’t because we see it at the end of season one in the final battle

[ebon furnace]

thats the caswennan

[coarse grove]

That was Quintus's ship.

[sand thicket]

How do we know that

[ebon furnace]

cuz we see it in s2e2

[coarse grove]

The showrunners confirmed it in Articles, and we see it in s2e2.

[ember elk]

Mini-nukes are not the "end-all-be-all" explosives you think they are. They would tickle him and piss him off enough to target them with an even bigger nuke.

[sand thicket]

Why would the commonwealth need to send knights in if Quintus has an airship and knights

[coarse grove]

Because he asked for Support.

[normal veldt]

I'm still surprised that he didn't have a Liberty Prime 2.0 (or didn't bother to bring it up) in FNV

[sand thicket]

The guys on base act like they’ve never seen knights before

[ebon furnace]

bc cold fusion is a big deal and the commonwealth wants to have their share in finding it + the scientist is enclave and well, yk how big of a deal it is to capture an enclave scientist

[lofty needle]

I still think they'll go down this route of the NCR blaming the BOS of steel cause I mean from the NCRs perspective it really obviously looks like the bos did it. But that'll probably be a plot line way later

[ember elk]

Only enough resources enough for one?

The US military couldn't solve Liberty Primes power supply in time for Anchorage, and just sent more power armor units.

[coarse grove]

It feels like they wanna lean into the Legion & NCR conflict more.

[lofty needle]

Im not opposed to this but I dont really wana rehash the same thing we did in nv

[sand thicket]

I just don’t get why would maxson send in knights and his airship when Quintus already has the caswenann

[coarse grove]

Also the specific NCR conflict with the BoS was because of Elijah, and Helios.

[ebon furnace]

its cold fusion. its literally the key do doing everything. want more liberty primes? well guess waht, cold fusion can allow you to do that. want infinite fusion cores? bam

[torpid cargo]

Maxson supplying the west at all in the shadow of a civil war seems sketchy to begin with. Is he blind?

[coarse grove]

Not at all. He probably is gonna use it to justify his actions of retaliation, actually.

[weary sorrel]

Maybe he doesn’t know Quintus is a traitor?

[ember elk]

And Helios 1 has that ray that recharges, but you the Euclide C-finder for that to happen.

[coarse grove]

Archimedes.

[ebon furnace]

the bos is at an all time high in terms of power, its not impossible to see maxson's ego in expansion result in expanding too fast and too far without background checks into who theyre allowing in

[ember elk]

That's the name.

[torpid cargo]

Would be a NCR W if they sabotaged Helios One before pulling out.

[sand thicket]

If that’s the case than I’m still pretty sure Titus is from the commonwealth because Maximus doesn’t recognize him if he was from the knights of San Fernando he probably would’ve recognized him

[weary sorrel]

Brotherhood expansion biting them in the rear like it did the NCR would be oh-so poetic.

[ember elk]

What about Paladin Danse? We find out in FO4 he is a Synth, and Maxon blew a gasket.

[coarse grove]

Yes but their history is important.

Danse was his best friend. Not to mention, the reality is that the real Danse is likely dead. Why, in Maxson's mind, should he be forced to accept an imposter of someone he grew up with?

And on principle alone, it would piss Maxson off. So you couple that together, it's a emotionally volatile situation.

[lofty needle]

So when do we think the east coast actually gets involved in the west (and not just the paladin)

[ember elk]

Ah, very true. Maxon would want to keep it a secret, but Synth's don't age, right? That would raise serious questions later down the road.

[sand thicket]

That’s probably gonna be season 3 because the showrunners said this season is going to be mostly build up

[coarse grove]

Exactly. There's a lot of variables. And if the others find out too, that he let a Synth go - that was an impsoter of his best friend. His leadership would fracture. And also, considering that Maxson is a visionairy. This is confirmed by Proctor, himself, and others. So he's willing to make sacrifices to maintain that vision if it means Humanity will be in a better spot, in his eyes.

People confuse the Maxson situation - but it's pretty layered when you think about it.

[proven sky]

hes a machine he isnt invincible. in game he brushes stuff off cause hes literally set as an essential character. but you cant honestly tell me you think that an actual honest to god liberty prime would not be affected by a direct hit from a half dozen miniaturized nuclear bombs

[sand thicket]

In the trailers the climax seems to be Maximus fighting a deathclaw

I don’t think we’ll see a full on brotherhood civil war this season

[torpid cargo]

The enclave destroyed him with conventional missiles. I think it’s safe to say he would be screwed.

[proven sky]

the missile that destroyed him in fo3 wasnt even big enough to kill the brotherhood soldiers and player character 200 feet away. so it clearly wasnt some superweapon missile

[sand thicket]

My prediction is the airship down is actually infighting from the coalition being formed by Quintus

[ebon furnace]

he throws half a dozen mk28 nukes point blank and survives with no damage. i think we can withstand 12 mini nukes which are orders of magnitude smaller, the ncr probably doesnt have the amount of mininukes needed to take him down

[proven sky]

just a regular normal non nuclear missile

[sand thicket]

Most likely Yosemite and some other chapter

[coarse grove]

Probably, I'm convinced Xander 100% Max Speech stat'd his way into making them fight each other.

[lofty needle]

This is confirmed right since we see in the shot of the airships going down theres the same number of airships as the coalition members

[proven sky]

the missile that killed him in fo3 was non-nuclear and still did the job

[coarse grove]

Yes. None of those ships are the East.

[lofty needle]

Agreed

[coarse grove]

So they are fighting each other, it's more so how.

[coarse grove]

One missile? It was a barrage from a satellite in fucking space.

[lofty needle]

I mean tbf they all seem like they hate eachother already

[proven sky]

yeah youre right. my bad its been awhile

[ebon furnace]

dude the "missile" that killed him was a barrage of RODS FROM GOD BY THE ENCLAVE
ITS A LITERAL ORBITAL STRIKE

[sand thicket]

Yeah

[ebon furnace]

thats the 3rd time i told you BRUH

[coarse grove]

I feel like this is bait or like purposefully not engaging, idk i can't tell lol

[proven sky]

im sorry i didnt see it?

[sand thicket]

They are already turning on eachother

[ebon furnace]

NCR will find better success in throwing every missile they have at him, as they definitely have a lot more missiles than they do mini nukes.

[eager folio]

To be fair
There only 4 airships shown
No 5th one
So commonwealth airship isnt present and clearly is some infighting going on

[lofty needle]

Lets just see the NCR first

[proven sky]

they were missiles with warheads. rods from god means a kinetic bombardment

[torpid cargo]

Bradley Hercules fired nuclear missiles.

They’re the same that destroy the mobile crawler.

[coarse grove]

I think it was like a dozen, maybe several - I'm looking for the cutscene, now.

[proven sky]

not to play semantics or anything. its just a different type of weapon altogether

[eager folio]

I sleep and did i miss something?
@coarse grove
What are these guys talking about

[normal veldt]

So they shouldn't have problems with making more giant robots now then?

[weary sorrel]

The NCR proper, not more bands of LARP’ers or Moldaver cultists.

[coarse grove]

Not at all, they have the Industry to do it.

[coarse grove]

Discussing the Brotherhood and their resources.

[lofty needle]

Yeah I think all we get this season are a small detachment left in the mojave

[eager folio]

Oh simple
They have 5 air ships

[lofty needle]

So i agree NCR proper sometime soon please

[ember elk]

The Bradley-Hercules Orbital Station, which has no more payloads because the Lone Wonderer used them to destroy the Enclaves Mobile Crawler and other assets.

[ember elk]

Now they can with the resources and the know-how.

[coarse grove]

And there's no way to re-arm it, or restock it. Unless the Brotherhood found a way, cause the Eastern brotherhood is the last group to have access.

[torpid cargo]

More Liberty Primes just feels like Rise of Skywalker and more super weapon star destroyers.
I like my super weapons like my steak, rare.

[eager folio]

They have the schematic and maybe resources
But there wouldnt be any reason to do so

[coarse grove]

Liberty prime shouldn't even be in the show.

[ebon furnace]

no point in rearming it, the flight controls are damaged and as such its locked into one orbital path

[proven sky]

holy shit yes. if there was more than one liberty prime i would lose it

[eager folio]

Hmm
No he should be
Let people witness the power of the east coast BoS

[proven sky]

get new material

[lofty needle]

I dont want them to reuse liberty prime again for the third time

[proven sky]

how many times can you replay the hits before it stops hitting

[torpid cargo]

I want Chinese power armor.

[coarse grove]

Yeah so even then, not many weapons could destroy Liberty prime.

[weary sorrel]

And let’s not forget the Enclave maybe crashing the party at some point for their third attempt at reclaiming America.

[ebon furnace]

i honestly dont think the east coast bos needs lliberty primes to defeat these chapters. simply flying a couple vb-02 configured ariships would absolutely cripple these seceders

[proven sky]

im so tired of the enclave

let them die

[ember elk]

Which brings me to Mothership Zeta: WHERE. IS. IT?!?!

[ebon furnace]

enclave aint crashing shit theyre in the middle of the rockies

[coarse grove]

If the East can make all 4 of those Western Chapters fight with one suave man in a bomber jacket? The East is better than I thought.

[eager folio]

Mate
Their soldier even without power armor is easily able to take out 5 of them down without a fight or take a power armor person single handedly

[lofty needle]

Yeah im glad at least so far vault tech is the shows big bad and not the enclave (until they make their inevitable reveal)

[torpid cargo]

Now hold on, let’s give them some credit. You can destroy the Prydwhen with conventional artillery. I’m sure the West, or the NCR can manage that much.

[eager folio]

Do not underestimate arthur maxson son

[ebon furnace]

not talking ncr, im talking the rebellion chapters

[normal veldt]

Dane seems like a spy for the East

[torpid cargo]

Well even easier, as they have tech the NCR wouldn’t.

[weary sorrel]

And if there’s any group which could unite the NCR against them outside of the Enclave or Legion, it’s the Brotherhood.

[coarse grove]

Nah, not underestimating Arthur, def glazing Xander, though.

[ember elk]

Well, there is the alien mothership in orbit that the Lone Wonderer has. Why hasn't THAT been mentioned?

[eager folio]

Yes
His son
Hecne do not underestimate both of them

[coarse grove]

Eastern Brotherhood and NCR alliance, strongest union in the Wasteland tbh

[ember elk]

And the Minutemen?

[coarse grove]

Probably because they're not touching Main characters, they're very much avoiding them like the plague. lol

[ebon furnace]

quintus' airship seeing vb-02 vertibirds (whichre equipped with missile launchers):

[eager folio]

Because to do so would mean to reintroduce the lone wanderer
And they will not touch the main characters

[coarse grove]

If the East controls Boston, the MM would dissolve. The MM only exist as a militia, they didn't have what it took for an actual government.

[ember elk]

@coarse grove @eager folio Makes sense not to touch MC's of the Fallout games.

[weary sorrel]

Would be my preferred outcome for sure; they gotta squash this generational beef sometime.

[ebon furnace]

idk about that. MM would be good at defending roads, which would lighten resources needed

[coarse grove]

I genuinely don't want them touching them tbh. Leave their myth/legend/tale ambigious.

[ebon furnace]

i think the brotherhood ending is canon based on the show but i think the minutemen, or at least some version of it still exists

[ember elk]

And I agree wholeheartedly.

[coarse grove]

The BoS would be better. Vertibird escors, knight escorts, etc etc. And it would give the MM actual time to focus on being farmers, and rebuilding the land.

Let the actual soldiers focus on the military and escorting.

[eager folio]

To touch them would mean there is some sort of canon approach
And that would ruin a lot of player persepective

[ebon furnace]

i really want a scene where the ghoul and lucy stumble on a destroyed caravan and they find a single, 35 pound brick of gold from the sierra madre lmao

[lofty needle]

Nate the rake canonically murdered his son 🍁🍁

[eager folio]

There are some canon but even then, we dont have much

[coarse grove]

BLEW HIS ASS UP.

[ember elk]

I would say a mere mention, but that asking too much.

[eager folio]

A mention is fine

[torpid cargo]

What is with Fallout 1-3 players accepting what player events are canon, but not 4/NV players.

[ember elk]

But keeping it ambiguous is a MUST.

[coarse grove]

Courier is vaguely confirmed through the platinum chip being delivered - cause we see the Securitrons upgraded. BUT. I think all the Courier is confirmed to do is track benny down, kill him, deliver the chip - and leave.

[sand thicket]

It’s kinda impossible to keep things with open ended outcomes if it has sequels and multiple forms of media

[ember elk]

Too recent of a history, and Fallout 3 is still considered recent.

[lofty needle]

I honestly think the courier could still have literally helped anyone and it would still work because shady shands nuking and the ncr withdrawal would have thrown off all the factions

[sand thicket]

Each new entry in the series automatically decanonizes some of the endings in the previous ending

[proven sky]

totally

[eager folio]

Because black isles straight up told the canon ending for fallout 1 and fallout 2 only has one ending
Fallout 3 literally only has one ending and that the BoS winning (beside injecting FEV)
They have already made canon stuff

Fallout 4 and new vegas has too many endings and approaches that to make a canon would hurt many players

[weary sorrel]

Why not just pick one ending and build off of that instead of being all wishy-washy ‘fog of war’?

[ebon furnace]

ehhh technically true but for fallout 4 it really wasnt a surprise that fallout 3s ending was the mobile base crawler being destroyed

[proven sky]

and we know artillery exists out west. even the legion had a piece of artillery in the fort

[torpid cargo]

It’s been 10 years. Time for fans of 4 and New Vegas to get the Black Isle treatment and suck it up.

[coarse grove]

A howitzer, yes. Which is vastly different from needing guided missiles.

[ebon furnace]

howizters are a bitch to aim if you dont have the training lol

[proven sky]

an explosive is an explosive

enough of it and liberty prime WILL sustain damage

[coarse grove]

Are we gonna sit here and try to say that aiming a howitzer is easy?

[torpid cargo]

Some random ass settlers in Fallout 4 coordinating a strike on the Prydwhen be like:

[eager folio]

https://tenor.com/view/jjj-laugh-gif-14902144

[proven sky]

hell you dont even need it totally eradicated like the missiles. that was super overkill. a shot on the legs or body or head or neck or fuckin anywhere could reduce his functionality

[ebon furnace]

for one, the prydwen is stationary and the minuteman had all the time in the world to calculate the trajectory needed.

2, im pretty sure the minutemen used ot use those howitzers

[ember elk]

Only with well trained people. NOT savages like the Legion.

[proven sky]

no but you dont have to land every shot

[coarse grove]

Only with trained people, and the Legion wasn't smart with weaponry.

You had to fix the howitzer for it to be even remotely effective.

[torpid cargo]

You can fire over open sights.

[eager folio]

Lets see
Aim artiliary
FIRE!

[coarse grove]

Why are we acting like the West has this kind of training when the fuckers don't have basic tech knowledge.

[ember elk]

Try hitting small parts of a body that are moving and see how that goes.

[sand thicket]

The legion intentionally is primitive with their weaponry as well

[proven sky]

its a bomb. it doesnt have to be a direct hit

a pressure wave is a pressure wave

[ember elk]

Albiet a small one.

[coarse grove]

I genuinely can't tell if you're serious or ragebaiting anymore.

[eager folio]

Okay
Let the boomer handle it

[ember elk]

I think they ARE serious.

[sand thicket]

Liberty prime is invulnerable to all small arms fire

[coarse grove]

[torpid cargo]

Artillery flipping tanks in ww2 with near misses comes to mind.

[proven sky]

again, liberty prime is a machine made of hydraulics and electronics. cause a leak, damage some chips. he isnt immortal just cause he was in game

[sand thicket]

Shrapnel won’t do anything it it either

[proven sky]

no of course not

[ember elk]

Even the Enclave couldn't do jack-shit to Liberty Prime. AND THEY HAD VERTIBIRDS!!!!

[ebon furnace]

good luck

[coarse grove]

LMAO

[eager folio]

Look easy enough

[sand thicket]

With laser Gatlings

[ember elk]

And plasma weapons.

[proven sky]

did the enclave even know about liberty prime before the final march on the jefferson memorial

[sand thicket]

I kinda wonder why we never see vertibirds armament systems used

[coarse grove]

Yeah, you'd need some serious firepower, not just random explosives.

[proven sky]

they had like all of 30 minutes to mount their defense

[sand thicket]

Besides the door mounted guns

[eager folio]

nope
Not enough to defend them

They had to aim literally an orbital missle ON HIM
AND EVEN THEN, HE STILL ALIVE

[sand thicket]

Last time I seen vertibird weapons used was broken steel

[eager folio]

That how tough liberty prime is
To deploy him would mean you are literally wanting to kill someone THAT badly

[torpid cargo]

I don’t think I’ve seen a vertibird be useful in combat ever. Not even in the Anchorage DLC.

[ember elk]

Even then, they couldn't do a damn thing!

[proven sky]

i dont think its exactly fair to say hes "still alive." its totally not the same robot apart from the head and programming

body rebuilt from scratch

in all the ways that matter, that strike "killed" him

[coarse grove]

They rebuilt him stronger than previously.

[eager folio]

Still
Extremely tough and survived

[proven sky]

after 10 years

[lofty needle]

Why didnt the enclave just orbital strike the citadel again?

[proven sky]

it took 10 years

[coarse grove]

less.

[torpid cargo]

Plot

[proven sky]

8 years

however many years

it took years to rebuid a new one

[coarse grove]

They ran out of missiles.

[normal veldt]

Also there's no way that Liberty Prime IRL can carry that many nuclear warheads
Honestly, I think the show can come up with better super weapons for epic battle scenes

[proven sky]

i call that killing a robot

if you have to rebuild it and it takes damn near a decade

[sand thicket]

It was nearly done before the player character got to the brotherhood

[torpid cargo]

He means before Broken Steel.

[lofty needle]

before they hit liberty prime I mean

[proven sky]

but crucially it was not done

[sand thicket]

Aka Nate

[coarse grove]

Oh, I have no idea. They should've. Maybe they wanted to occupy it and considered it a lost cause Broken Steel?

[proven sky]

this as well

[sand thicket]

That’s why fallout 4 feels wierd

[proven sky]

in real combat, he gets like 6 of those tops

[ember elk]

Because the Lone Wonderer used them all on the Enclave.

[proven sky]

then he just has the laser

[sand thicket]

It’s not a horrible game but it could’ve been much better

We just play as Nate

[torpid cargo]

They spent all their cool technology budget on fans to blow away sand.

[sand thicket]

And the main quest is stupid

[eager folio]

Counter argument
WE HAVE AN ICE BOX!

[sand thicket]

What is wrong with Todd man he has a rich IP in his hands and just blunder after blunder

[proven sky]

i was trying to type this up earlier but got sidetracked again lol.
this is a super minor nitpick, but does the vertibird just not look stable when it lands to anyone else? im not an aerospace engineer but those 3 wheels so close together and right under the main body just looks like it should tip over lol

[ember elk]

Because "it just works."

[sand thicket]

Now I’m crashing out

[ebon furnace]

yk whats funny, archimedes is a perfect counter to airships

like yeah a disproportionally weak weapon in game with a long start up time, but airships arent very maneuvrable and, well, archimedes definitely brings some heat

[proven sky]

crash out, king

[coarse grove]

The vertibirds also changed designs, too. I think from 1&2, to Fo3 and FNV, to fallout 4's design

[ember elk]

And just one problem too: the Euclid C-finder.

[sand thicket]

I swear we need someone to assassinate Todd if fallout 5 is shit

[sand thicket]

There’s different models of vertibirds

[lofty needle]

The early game vertibirds are ones developed by the enclave whereas fallout 4 ones are prewar

[torpid cargo]

The post war refits at Navarro

[ember elk]

Just like there are different models of the assualt rifle from fallout 3 and 4?

[ebon furnace]

VB-02 is the gunship variant
VB-01 is the standard cargo variant

VB-01 is Fallout 4, which is only armed with machien guns
VB-02 is Fallout 3>, which has gatling lasers, miniguns, and missile launchers

A singular VB-02 could take out multiple airships, a VB-01 couldnt even hope to take out one.

[coarse grove]

Makes sense.

[torpid cargo]

Watching Vertibirds blow up or crash is so satisfying. Useless.

The hilarious scene in Operation Anchorage where one lands, drops of like 3 guys, then gets annihilated.

Useless.

[ebon furnace]

ah so just like how helicopters would fair in a modern day, airspace contested battlefield...

[coarse grove]

Operation Anchorage flashback, episode 4.

[lofty needle]

Lets go

[normal veldt]

You mean rich IPs, it's not just Fallout

[torpid cargo]

Black hawk down but it’s Vertibirds in the snow would go hard tbh.

[lofty needle]

They're placing the house cooper meeting way later in the season than I expected

[ebon furnace]

idk doom is doing really well

[sand thicket]

Well I haven’t played elder scrolls believe it or not

[eager folio]

You know
I forgot to say but yesterday
When i mention how lucy is about to learn the harsh truth from the legion

You said she has to forget her golden rule right?

[coarse grove]

the wasteland one, yeah, i wonder if the prewar one will be sooner

[sand thicket]

Only once when I was like 10 and didn’t get past the opening

It was too confusing for me at the time

[coarse grove]

I said it would be important for her to forget it, or to adjust it in some fashion.

[proven sky]

yeah. im most fond of the fo2 version that looked like a bug and had 8 blades on each rotor. it looks badass.

[coarse grove]

Yeah i prefer the previous versions.

[eager folio]

But the golden rule is this

[torpid cargo]

Please please please

[eager folio]

https://tenor.com/view/fallout-ghoul-golden-rule-sidetracked-thou-shalt-gif-2452729706640074362

[ebon furnace]

god i hope that we get the guided missile launcher in the show with the "clunkclunk" guidance mechanism

[sand thicket]

Yea the ones we see in fo2 with 8 blades look badass

[normal veldt]

It takes forever to fire tho, most enemies can dodge the beam if they start running at you

[proven sky]

the new design is fine ig. it fits with the super streamlined aesthetic that they seem to be doing now, but just the wheels in that scene where it landed inside the hangar looked a tad goofy to me

[coarse grove]

Lmao

[eager folio]

She is 100% doing the correct job

[proven sky]

youre gonna fall right over, little vertibird

[ebon furnace]

yeah but airships cant maneuver fast enough

[coarse grove]

It looks flimsy

[proven sky]

get some wider wheels

[lofty needle]

Tbf idk whered they'd even start with animating a door for the bos to get onto the old vertibird designs

[ebon furnace]

operation anchorage soldiers had so much drip

like yeah sure china had stealth suits but man ever since i played div i love winter camo

[proven sky]

if they dont reach the strip until the finale im gonna crash out

episode 1 literally had them at the outskirts of the vegas metro area

lol

[coarse grove]

The finale is the strip, but it looks more like that's when they take back the strip?

[proven sky]

you could see it

[lofty needle]

I have bad news for you

[proven sky]

[torpid cargo]

I do like the chin mounted gun that the show variant has. Actual visible weaponry.

[lofty needle]

Im assuming cooper meeting house post war will be one of the final scenes of the season cause it'll need to be after hes fled the strip and come back once maximus kills the deathclaw

[proven sky]

the fo2 variant and the fo3/nv variant both look badass

[lofty needle]

Which is a last episode event

[sand thicket]

They do have it fallout 4 also

[proven sky]

new one kind fugly

[sand thicket]

But the lancers never do straffing runs

[normal veldt]

That's not Todd's IP and even DOOM kinda messed up with how they treated Mick Gordon

So far Todd's mostly involved in Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Indiana Jones (MachineGames did a great job) and ofc... Starfield (the Star Wars mod is pretty fun)

[torpid cargo]

Each new appearance they lose more rotor blades lmao.

[sand thicket]

Probably just a waste of ammo the door gunners would be more accurate

[sand thicket]

Yea kinda odd how the cargo/troop carrier versions have less rotors when the weight would be more

[proven sky]

yeah lmao

WE NEED MORE LIFT

[coarse grove]

They should, i mean they probably do in lore, just not game mechanic wise

dumb engine probably can't handle it

[ebon furnace]

i mean elder scrolls is doing well, the obsidian remastered is doing great
fallout tv show has won several awards and probably wouldve won 2025's best adaption if it came out earlier like last year, fo76 is going strong with new map expansions and content
indiana jones is doing well
starfield is really the only bummer and its recovering.

[torpid cargo]

Jumping through the blades from one to another in Fallout the Frontier

[proven sky]

the fo4/76 variant could totally not fly lol. your bitch ass does NOT have the lift. rule of cool though i guess

[coarse grove]

Thank you for acknowledging the recovery. lol

[normal veldt]

Oblivion, yeah, I just hope tes6 will get a solid 8/10

It's just worrying that the project that Todd spent most time and energy on fumbled so hard

Oh and 76 had a super rough start tbh

[coarse grove]

also off topic for one quick second? Star Wars genesis for Starfield? Holy, HOLY. I love it. The SW game i always wanted.

[lofty needle]

Kinda feel bad for todd he was so passionate about Stratfield...

[sand thicket]

They could look at the osprey

And if these are nuclear powers they could generate more lift

But even irl the osprey is shit and always crashing

[coarse grove]

I only hope it can bounce back.

[torpid cargo]

T-51 or we riot.

[ebon furnace]

realistically, no vertibird is getting off the ground using irl physics

[sand thicket]

Just like the game

[ebon furnace]

THISSS I WANT MY T-51B

[scenic bobcat]

welp

ep 2 was cool

[coarse grove]

We only know that Cooper is wearing T45-D in Anchorage.

[lofty needle]

Me too cause otherwise tes6 and f5 are gonna suck being on the same engine lol

[sand thicket]

V22

[scenic bobcat]

Really puts into perspective how fucking stupid some chapters have become

[sand thicket]

But they always crash randomly

[proven sky]

osprey has way more body length to act as an aerosurface and generate lift. the vertibirds are super stubby and reducing the number of blades only makes it worse

[coarse grove]

and TES6 is attempting to do the actual big time battle mechanics Skyrim wanted to do.

[lofty needle]

The timeline doesnt work out for t51 to be in the anchorage flashback

[proven sky]

plus they forward profile is much larger now

[ebon furnace]

v22 has a much larger rotor span and is more aerodynamic

[proven sky]

so more drag

[torpid cargo]

Oh yeah that makes sense. He was there earlier in the campaign, then retired like Nate.

[proven sky]

im not an aerospace engineer but i dabble in amateur rocketry. so im not talking totally out of my ass

only half out of my ass

[sand thicket]

I think Irl the bird would only be able to fly with its rotors straight up

[coarse grove]

Yes. 🙂 He was a frontline's man i think. the title for the episode says "Demons in the Snow" implies seeing a level of chinese threat. Hopefully Dragoon? Idk

[proven sky]

same

[sand thicket]

The airplane mode is for sure impossible

[ebon furnace]

most fictional tiltrotors arent ever lifting off irl save for maybe the samson from avatar and perhaps the uh144 purely because its partially jet powered

[proven sky]

helicopter mode its probably good. but plane mode is totally not happening

bout as flightworthy as a brick

[lofty needle]

The effects they use for making the actors younger works surprisingly well

For the flashbacks

[sand thicket]

The wing surface area is literally impossible for it to get enough lift even with the jet boosters in the back

[normal veldt]

Where did they say that?

[torpid cargo]

I can’t wait to watch Chimera tanks and dragoons cut down dozens of Americans in the snow.

[coarse grove]

The thing to consider the Vertibird, for all intensive purposes - doesn't follow physics at all, so we have to be careful applying any type of realism to them.

[proven sky]

yeah. like i said - rule of cool

just a minor nitpick lol

[lofty needle]

All i was thinking in ep2 is how the anchor to the airships dont just snap off when a vertibird lands lmao

[ebon furnace]

yeah fair enough, but my point still stands, literaly 99% of all fictional tiltrotors arent credible to irl physics and as such therees no point in comparing the vb02 and vb01 on flight mechanics bc neither of them is lifting off irl

[coarse grove]

Oh god, it was a long ass interview with Todd Howard & Emil, i'd have to dig for it again. It's been a few years.
The discussion was about them wanting to do things they couldn't do in Skyrim, for TES6.

And one of the biggest cut content was a proper civil war for Skyrim.

[proven sky]

yeah its a shame it wasnt bigger

took away from the aura

[torpid cargo]

You mean 8 men isn’t a siege?

[lofty needle]

I still find it funny that tes6 native populace will be the khajeet

Like just cat people everywhere

[coarse grove]

It was supposed to be gigantic, when you look at the old cut content, and concepts they had to finish it.

[proven sky]

i think it can be if theyre all really really big men

a siege is all about the total body mass of the attacking force. yeah?

[normal veldt]

Also seriously what's stopping them from using a bike or even a car in Bethesda's Fallout? I never really get the logic tbh

I mean no one will think it's a Mad Max knock-off (it kinda was lol)

[coarse grove]

Nothing, but I've been using vehicle mods since FO3.

[sand thicket]

Shitty fucking engine

Stupid Todd

[lofty needle]

Cars is cause towards end of 21st century theyre all fusion powered mostly so they dont work now

Ncr had gasoline vehicles

[coarse grove]

Nah, modders always find a way. The engine isn't the limitation, it's usually the dev's time.

The simple answer is that they just didn't allocate resources to build a proper usable vehicle.

[proven sky]

nah there are fusion cars powered by microfusion cells still. just rare

[torpid cargo]

Todd doesn’t like the world rebuilding. So no cars allowed, no dragging them with Brahmin. No motorcycles, nothing.

You will take your tribal tech and you will like it,

[lofty needle]

Oh wait I misread the question aha

[coarse grove]

Chris Avalone*

[proven sky]

and the ncr has vehicles that are functional. you just never see them moving in game cause engine

[sand thicket]

Also I think it’s cuz of the world map size and they want the character to walk around for random encounters

[proven sky]

plus railroads

[coarse grove]

That, too.

[sand thicket]

Todd said something about this before on why he won’t put vehicles

[ebon furnace]

tbf with the state of fragility of fallouts cars and the state of the US Interstates in 2280+, no one smart is gonna legitimately drive a car

[lofty needle]

Lol true

[coarse grove]

you sneeze on them and they blow up

[proven sky]

how hard can it be. just hit the gas and pray

[ebon furnace]

pre-war urban dictionary term of the year: pothole nuke

[normal veldt]

I swear I might laugh my ahh off if they make a "NPC running with a train on his head" reference in the show

[torpid cargo]

It’s implied in NV they used trucks. Sucks

[proven sky]

do not speak this into existence

[coarse grove]

And the NCR had Horses.

[proven sky]

speak no evil

[ebon furnace]

tbf military trucks and apcs are likely still gas powered in fallout, and as such arent as fragile

[sand thicket]

Lolll they couldn’t even figure out how to make moving assets without tying them to invisible npcs

[coarse grove]

I'm actually not sure, weren't a good chunk of vehicles using fusion cores, too?

[ebon furnace]

i mean it works, you only use the metro once, theres no good reason for bethesda to spend money making train mechanics

[lofty needle]

Both gas and fusion vehicles exist in fallout

[proven sky]

yeah gas still existed in the fallout universe. it wasnt till fallout 3 and fallout 4 especially where the worldbuilding seemed to try to shift toward everything being fusion

[coarse grove]

okay

[sand thicket]

Yeah it depends on the make and model I think fusion vehicles started being produced in the late 2050s

[lofty needle]

They transitioned to fusion after the gas started running out

[proven sky]

the gas stations in fallout 2 show prices by gallon

[sand thicket]

Around the time the resource wars started

[coarse grove]

yeah i know, but how often were they used - and were fusion cars more dominant

[ebon furnace]

fusion cars were probably used by upper middle class and up, while all the peasants still used gas cars

[proven sky]

id assume not, owing to the fact that gas stations existed and the resource wars were over oil. but its one of those things were theres a distinct disunity between the isometric era and the 3d era

[sand thicket]

The gas prices are insane though

[proven sky]

3d era will lead you to believe everything was all fission

[ebon furnace]

hence the resource wars

[sand thicket]

Rich people would probably still use gas cars

[proven sky]

isometric implies gas was still super important

[sand thicket]

If you owned an og classic model of a corvega you were probably rich

[ebon furnace]

the car the bos shot up was a gas car now that i think about it

[lofty needle]

I think and dont check me on this but obviously cause oil ran out or became stupid expensive the majority of vehicles did become fusion as they displaced the older gas based car but this transition was in like the 2050s or 60s

[torpid cargo]

The car in Area 51 was probably gas, since they were so confident shooting at it.

[proven sky]

also from the explosion

[coarse grove]

it became expensive, which is why they turned to nuclear energy more.

[sand thicket]

It was in the 60s I’m pretty sure

[coarse grove]

reading up on it now

[lofty needle]

Yea

[ebon furnace]

yeah and the explosion happend in the back where the gas tank is + the explosion was more consistent of a gas explosion than a nuclear one

[sand thicket]

When the resource wars broke out

[sand thicket]

It could’ve still been a nuclear explosion we see this all the time in 3d fallout

[torpid cargo]

The Middle East nuking each other while the US suckles on Alaska.

[ebon furnace]

all nuclear explosions in fallout have mushroom clouds, no matter the size lol, the nukes dropped on los angeles at teh beginning dont make enough explosions to warrant a mushroom cloud but they still do

[lofty needle]

Ye and europe just collapsing a dexade before the great war

[normal veldt]

Worst crime committed by BoS since the start of the show

Rip antique car

[gentle mesa]

An easy retcon they can do (which would work great if they want drivable vehicles in F5) is that converting older cars from petrol to other fuel types were common.

[coarse grove]

Europe was fighting the middle east, China and the U.S. fought each other.

[gentle mesa]

Solar kits, vegetable oil, ect.

[proven sky]

yeah lol why were random grunts deciding what happens with all this pre war tech?

where the hell were the scribes

[tame current]

Confirmed to be an oversight in All Roads' illustration
Horses have been extinct in Fallout since the Great War

[lofty needle]

I still subscribe to the idea that Africa is just vibing out the apocalypse

[sand thicket]

Middle East got nuked the the EU turned on eachother

[coarse grove]

Tragic.

[torpid cargo]

I genuinely thought we’d get a cool scene of them doing donuts or drag racing it. Sad

[sand thicket]

No way

Africa is probably one of the worst places to be

[tame current]

Still a gas and rail affair tho so no problem

[ebon furnace]

agreed, thoug hteh scribes probably deemed it not useful cuz where the fuck are they gonna find the fuel to refuel it lol once it runs out

[coarse grove]

And Canada got fucked by proxy of it being close to America, lmao

[proven sky]

wasnt it funny though. how they said something and then it wasnt what you thought it would be.

[gentle mesa]

To be fair there's nothing in the actual games that says horse are extinct. I think.it was tactics or BoS that said cats were extinct but then there's cats in F4

[lofty needle]

Hey at least its (probably) not been completely nuked

[proven sky]

didnt you laugh

laugh

[torpid cargo]

I was too appalled to laugh.

[normal veldt]

I mean these BoS are meant to be massacred in the upcoming civil war, the writers want you to see them as raiders with a techno fetish

[tame current]

Brother they can repair a car with a rusty wrench and bubblegum they'll be fine

[ebon furnace]

cats are plentiful in fallout 76 too

though thats much earlier

i hope we get horses in fallout 76 at some point

[coarse grove]

WE GOT RADHOGS NOW

[sand thicket]

The best place to be would be some off shore self sustainable island nation

[proven sky]

i like my soon to be massacred characters to have depth. it hurts more that way

hurts good

[sand thicket]

Or a neutral country

[ebon furnace]

i switched to mac earlier tihs year so i havent been able to improve my build or visit burning springs ;-;

[lofty needle]

Do we think China dropped a bomb on hawai just to really rub it in

[coarse grove]

Nah fuck'em, they're lacking so much IQ for me to care. Playing with a plasma grenade mid-elder meeting is INSANITY.

I want them to actually suffer.

[sand thicket]

Probably

[torpid cargo]

Character development for the Knights and Squires?

Nah, here’s 3 panning shots of Dane looking concerned for some reason.

[proven sky]

||this chapter is too stupid to exist.||

legitimately

[coarse grove]

Tragic. The update is super good. I got a Radhog around my camp, now.

[proven sky]

painful to see

to watch

[tame current]

Army dudes do be like that

[coarse grove]

I AGREE. Wipe them out.

Wipe the slate clean.

[sand thicket]

Knights of San Fernando don’t even know how to use their headlamps

[coarse grove]

This chapter makes me want to support Elijah.

And i hate that.

I hate that so much.

[gentle mesa]

Depends on nuclear proliferation. With US doctrine stocking with the atomic army plans and using tactical nukes down to infantry formations with the fatman, it wouldn't be a stretch to say nukes were at least more common than they are now.

[sand thicket]

I hope the eastern brotherhood removes this fraudulent fraternity

[lofty needle]

Ajax I heard from reviewers that norms sideplot takes up significant parts of season 2. Do you know anything about what happens with it?

[proven sky]

i hate the writers for making it this way

[coarse grove]

Xander 100% Speeches his way into getting them to kill each other.

[tame current]

Again
Army dudes are not that far off from that

[sand thicket]

Yeah he gonna pass all the checks

[coarse grove]

No, actually, I don't think Magnus has seen anything either.

[gentle mesa]

Wipe the slate clean, start the brotherhood over from scratch

[sand thicket]

He looks like his charisma and speech is maxed

[lofty needle]

Fair thats the one part we've gotten very little on like its ep2 and they've already left the vault

[coarse grove]

I've been trying to find bits on Norm, but i haven't seen much that we don't already know.

[torpid cargo]

Battle of Winterfell moment where the west loses because of bad tactics.

[sand thicket]

Not really a clean slate but just wipe out the fraudulent chapters

[proven sky]

yeah but youre rooting for other army dudes to come in to get rid of these army dudes. so clearly not-braindead army dudes do exist

[lofty needle]

Apparently norm doesnt even tie into the main plot much for s2 despite having lots of scenes so its all just setup

[proven sky]

these ones are too stupid to exist in a universe where smart army dudes also exist

its dissonant

[late wedge]

Yeah, that was one of my thoughts after seeing the ep. I’m pretty sure that ALL of the clips in the trailers with Norm have already been in the show now. I have no idea what him and those buds do now….

[sand thicket]

Norm leading out a bunch of player characters

[lofty needle]

Yeah like whats he even supposed to do and hoe is thst gonna tie into such large conflicts going on

[torpid cargo]

What Fallout 76 wish it had been at launch.

[gentle mesa]

Player characters running joke low int builds

[tame current]

Truth

[coarse grove]

i think i saw something that Hank might take all the juniors - and that's who we see at the desks in the Vault Tec building?

[lofty needle]

Tbf maybe those guys know something about vault tech like where hanks at

[late wedge]

Setting up FO5, no doubt. You start out by selecting which of Bud’s Buds you are before following Norm out of the vault

[proven sky]

the only thing they know how

middle management

a fate worse than death

[coarse grove]

They confirmed Season 3 is setting up for Fallout 5 - Fallout 5 will tie directly into S3.

[lofty needle]

True altho I was wondering if he gets those people from those premium plus cryo gen pods in the place hes at

[torpid cargo]

Assign them to your settlements to boost happiness—or some useless shit

[coarse grove]

Maybe. I dunno.

[proven sky]

which family member are we finding in this one

[coarse grove]

Our mom.

[tame current]

Hey btw
No ARs still in NCR ranks right?

[lofty needle]

Maximus searching for his parents isn't off the table we didnt see them die on screen lol

[proven sky]

what do you mean. modern guns have never existed in fallout. dont let you lying eyes deceive you

[coarse grove]

We're gonna hit every family member. We already did Dad, and Son, we need daughter and Mom, now.

[gentle mesa]

I think there's a clip of one of buds buds getting attacked by a radroach and the clips of the guys in Vault Security armor in Vault 31 and that's about it.

[torpid cargo]

Wait what? Didn’t they get vaporized on screen?

[coarse grove]

WHAT

[tame current]

I just know how you smell with that sarcasm

[normal veldt]

Wait really, where can I read about these reviews?

[lofty needle]

no wait guys im meming 😭😭

[proven sky]

my hair smells like tea tree shampoo and my body mangoes

[coarse grove]

LMAO you got me

[torpid cargo]

Hah

[lofty needle]

But I mean technically we didnt see them die on screen....

[tame current]

Shampoo gone bad and mangoes with a pinch of radiation

[coarse grove]

Magnus usually provides the Pictures, and says the articles -

[torpid cargo]

You can’t get away with that twice lol

[proven sky]

a tasteful amount of radiation

[tame current]

Yeah no you're right I can smell it now

[lofty needle]

Magnus is acc a godsend to this discord lol

[torpid cargo]

Why did this server decide to make the NCR color pee green…

[proven sky]

i think thats just the blood in your mouth

[gentle mesa]

No, you're right they didn't die, they're one with Atom now.

[coarse grove]

A lot of people here actually got on set, too, to take pictures. lol

[lofty needle]

Yeah true I saw some of that in fallout tv

[late wedge]

Which is a good move and also further affirms for me that they’re trying their darndest to avoid actually making any definitive statements about what’s already happened. They don’t want to take away from the experience of the games already existing, but they also realize how beneficial it would be if the new game can more seamlessly weave into the show exactly so that they can make definitive statements and al that blah blah whatever you know

[tame current]

How can you be sure?
It is opposite day after all

[lofty needle]

Thats crazy

[proven sky]

fuck

[sand thicket]

I swear if the world is still a complete dumpster fire in fallout 5 I’m crashing out

[coarse grove]

This ^
It's why I tell people don't assume a specific action, or ending is canon unless Bethesda says outright. Because the show is canonizing things, for Fallout 5 to make sense.

[tame current]

Speech 100 moment

[late wedge]

Ah I don’t remember those, but even still, they certainly don’t indicate much and give no indication of Norm himself. Wonder what he ends up doing

[normal veldt]

Daughter is actually WIP (Cooper)

[gentle mesa]

Ep 2 was really good imo, looking forward to the legion stuff next episode. Norm has easily become my favorite charcater and I'm liking Maximus a whole lot more than I did in S1.

[coarse grove]

And not to mention, leaving the main characters ambigious as all hell is the best narrative approach to keep all previous games intact.

[lofty needle]

I really love the idea we go into fallout 5 knowing the background context as to how the game world is the way it is

[sand thicket]

Maximus seems much better this season

[coarse grove]

Check. ✅

Now we need sibling and mother then, lol

[coarse grove]

Imagine is a new part of the Wasteland we haven't explored too? Season 3 is just to tease us, Fallout 5 gives us the full location.

[proven sky]

i want my player character to have no family. no parents. they just started existing when i sat down to play

stop making me find them todd

please

i have too much family now

[gentle mesa]

There's a lot of side plots but these first two episodes feel very tight.

[proven sky]

youve made me find 13 dads already

[normal veldt]

Norm's probably gonna be looking for Lucy so... Also checked? ✔️

[coarse grove]

NO, complete the list. I want ALL my family found. Then they can stop.

IT'S TOO LATE TO STOP.

[lofty needle]

Honestly it almost feels like more happened in this episode than like half of season 1

[proven sky]

you can have your desert after you finish eating all your parents

[late wedge]

If they manage to maintain the show being good and are able to properly allocate their resources and get it together, I think there’s a good chance S3 and the eventual FO5 end up being pretty dope and integrated nicely.
But also that’s super wishful thinking coming from Bethesda lol

[sand thicket]

I want my player character to just be a random wastelander I can determine their background

[eager folio]

Half of season 1 was just being distracted by things and open world building

[late wedge]

Exactly why I’m so confused every time someone is like “when will Nate cameo??” and seems to mean it…

[coarse grove]

It is, yeah, but the show hasn't given me doubt, YET. yet. . . So until then I will remain optimistic but cautious. lol

[proven sky]

deadass

[sand thicket]

First rule when it comes to Bethesda never have wishful thinking

[eager folio]

Nah turns out
There a season 4 in production

[sand thicket]

It’s taken us over ten years to learn our lesson with this game dev

[lofty needle]

Good point acc season 1 sets up the world very well so thst now s2 can run with the plot

[late wedge]

Agreed, in just one episode they made him more interesting to me than 90% of his screen time did in S1

[coarse grove]

it's mostly the Courier idolization, for me. Lol I get the courier is interesting, but dang.

[proven sky]

people wanting a courier appearance are insane. you are deranged. unwell. stop it. get some help.

[torpid cargo]

Also helps there wasn’t any pre-war flashbacks this episode.

[coarse grove]

This ^

[sand thicket]

A courier appearance would just ruin nv

[eager folio]

To be fair
The show stands out because it is true to the fallout universe by there being 4 different plots

[late wedge]

Yup, and I’m comfortable being in that position for…a while, it seems haha

[sand thicket]

The only way I could see them doing a player character appearance is if it’s a shadowy figure

[eager folio]

Thats the thing most people forgot
There are 4 plots happening together and it can get confusing overtime

[sand thicket]

And that would be corny

[late wedge]

(I didn’t want to say it, I was more scared of being attacked but yes)

[torpid cargo]

Same people who claim
No Bark is the chosen one.

[proven sky]

im good at enjoying pieces of media in a vacuum and apart from the follow ups, so i wont go as far as to say that it would ruin nv. but it would definitely be a bad thing for the future of the franchise

[eager folio]

We got lucy and ghoul storyline with hank
We got BoS civil war plot
We got pre-war plot
And we got vault lore plot

There are 4 plots HAPPENING together
Its actually is insane
But in a good way

Because yeah
In fallout games, that happens
You got 4 plots happening
The main questline
Faction questline
Lore
Lore

[sand thicket]

Nah I think this show has done multi plot lines in one show the best out of any other show I’ve watched that tries it

[proven sky]

when your rpg series starts having canon main characters, youre becoming an action shooter franchise

[lofty needle]

Now you have the ghoul and lucy on separate plots with the NCR and legion respectively

[sand thicket]

We already went over this with each new installment it’s really hard to leave endings ambiguous unless you go to a completely different area

[lofty needle]

It is juggling alot and surprisingly its got me invested in all of them

[coarse grove]

I'll say it, let them come. I promise you - I've dealt with the FF community for the last almost two decades. I can handle FNV fans.

[sand thicket]

In a game series like fallout with each new installment some endings from the previous game are just not possible

[late wedge]

Despite Bethesda being…..Bethesda and I truly don’t trust their ability to make good choices in the past like, 10 years, especially in regards to Fallout…I do think there’s one thing that’s beneficial now and that’s someone else, once again, doing Fallout well. The show is well done, it’s popular, it’s reminding Bethesda what could be for them if they focus right. And if there’s one thing they all really like, it’s money lol so hopefully someone else doing it well just ‘rising tides floats all boats’ a bit as they get it together

[proven sky]

you dont have to leave an ending ambiguous. fallouts 1 and 2 didnt. but i dont want to know jack shit about the actual content of the character who did those actions

[normal veldt]

Nate the Rake, brought to you by Emil Pagliarulo

[sand thicket]

Fuck that shit

[eager folio]

The ironic thing is and its the same point on @sand thicket

It works because the games are like this

You have like 50 plots in the games at the same time

Lucy and ghoul with hank is literally the main quests like finding ur dad in fo3 or ur son

We have faction questline like the BoS civil war and that was maximus is doing

We have the vault lore, the one we explore and that what norm is doing

And we have pre-war lore which is what the ghoul sees as he learns the truth of the pre-war era

4 plots happening and yet
In the games, its the same thing

[coarse grove]

confirmed he killed his son btw.

[proven sky]

dont show me the courier's build, dont show me the armor they wore, dont show me the weapons they used, dont show me all the people they spoke to and what they said to them

[sand thicket]

Yeah that’s what it should be

[lofty needle]

True and it translates surprisingly well over to the tv format

[shadow jolt]

just me or hank just really fucking stupid like he keeps turning the setting to max making rats explode but nothing changes so he moves to people

[sand thicket]

The show also does a good job of showing gameplay aspects in a subtle way

Character speech checks

Vats

Choices

[coarse grove]

Kind of, but it looked like he was testing something - cause he writes stuff down and has a clipboard.

[lofty needle]

Genuinely nate has become my favourite protagonist purely because of the changes made to him retroactively lol

[eager folio]

And they did it such a good job at making it all connected like the game itself
Yeah there are moment where the storyline just complete 180 and we doing something else
Ironically, that how the game works also
Sometimes you are just doing things that is not even related to the storyline or even have an effect

[proven sky]

you can totally pick a faction and say the courier helped them out canonically. but aside from the exact things that the courier had to do to make that ending happen – literally just the absolute bare bones to beat the game on that route – aside from those things, dont tell me a single other thing the courier did

[shadow jolt]

I hope we get to see the mysterious stranger

[lofty needle]

This too it really is such a good show. Like the ghoul having bloody mess is one i picked up on but theres so many more

[tame current]

Does anyone have pictures of NCR troopers and their weapons as shown at the start of the episode?

[shadow jolt]

like just have one of the characters about to die you hear the jingle and their enemys head explodes

[proven sky]

goofy lookin ranger

something about the shoulders

[lofty needle]

I truly commend the showrunners for making the show feel like a game and then making it all "just work" todd must be proud

[coarse grove]

As far as we know, the courier only delivered the chip.
It's super safe to assume the Courier killed Benny, delivered the chip a- and left afterwards.

[sand thicket]

Yeah the ranger armor just looks like a good cosplay but not a show production level ranger

[coarse grove]

Which is fine cause it leaves it ambigious to what he/she did in the Mojave.

[late wedge]

Presumably he’s making tweaks to…something in the tech between his tests, but I agree that it felt repetitive. Though he did also mention that it being miniaturised so much was a problem and that seemed to be why he went with the guy

[normal veldt]

You know, they say Pagliarulo is the one who's responsible for Nick Valentine's character and I couldn't help but feel they're cappin' me

Well, he probably did write Lucien Lachance so he was capable of good writing (but I gotta say that DB is overrated)

[coarse grove]

The armor is fine, the actor is just a bit on the less bulkier side. Also let's not pretend the Ranger armor didn't sit goofy on most bodies in FNV.

[eager folio]

Eh tbf
The guy bought a ticket for himself and not for his family
So the guy earned it
In the worst possible death imaginable

[proven sky]

you see i kinda hate that even more than having a hyper canonical courier. cause then its like nothing you did in game matters. the courier didnt really exist

[sand thicket]

Lucy trying to do speech checks at Novac with the khans

[eager folio]

Lucy trying to do speech checks in the legion tent

[coarse grove]

It's not like that, you have to understand these characters are MYTHS, they are LEGENDS.

[eager folio]

She will need to respec her special stats a

[lofty needle]

True thats a good one

[shadow jolt]

issue is you gotta test anylize review the data and after months of sucess maybe you can move up to a bigger animals

[proven sky]

if the canon outcome isnt one of the options we had available to us in game, then youre saying the player doesnt get to interact with the canon timeline at all

[tame current]

Hmm yeah actually no Service Rifle
Just Hunting Rifles
I'm going with the FNV names of weapons btw because I do not want to bother with even trying to guess what type of bolt action rifle the Hunting Rifle is when it is just a generic bolt action

[eager folio]

Lucy is suprisely one of those character who i am annoyed with and yet i still dont mind watching her because i know full well

EVERYONE FIRST PLAYTHROUGH WAS LIKE THAT

[sand thicket]

Lucy has really bad charisma and low speech skill

[late wedge]

I kind of look forward to seeing some edits of like, the HUD speech menu options over things like Lucy in Novak that will inevitably be done by people

[proven sky]

how does someone become a myth and a legend if they didnt do anything to help any faction

[coarse grove]

Bethesda has stated that "everyone believes they won" in the FNV ending, so you can read into it how you wish.

[shadow jolt]

me fighting cazadors in new vegas

[sand thicket]

I wonder what each of the mc stats are

[torpid cargo]

Weren’t the actions of the Chosen One and Dweller so well known in California, they made statues in their honor?

[late wedge]

Well he’s clearly not the ideal scientist, but he sure is putting the effort in haha

[proven sky]

there was a statue to the vault dweller outside of the main government building in shady sands in fo2

[sand thicket]

There’s already some edits in season one of the bridge encounter with Maximus and Lucy and some fiends

[proven sky]

chat i love fo2

[coarse grove]

all the player characters in Fallout are ambigious. FNV didn't follow the Chosen one's choices, just lose interpretations. Fallout 4 didn't follow the Lone Wanderer's specific choices - the ONLY canon stuff are the BoS storyline in FO3, everything else, irrelevant, doesn't matter.

[late wedge]

Oh yeah, that’s what made me think of it here. Novac just felt primed for it too

[shadow jolt]

hes doing the cave johnson approch to science

hes chucking it at the wall and seeing what sticks

[proven sky]

ok but did the lone wanderer actually have choices though (in the base game)

fo3 was good and i love it but that shit was linear as fuck

[coarse grove]

Yes, but what im saying Fallout 4 didn't canonize anything outside of the BoS Storyline.

[eager folio]

He could either infect the project with fev or not
That as far as you can get

[proven sky]

i guess the enclave poisoning ending but thats not exactly a real choice

[proven sky]

yeah

[eager folio]

He also blow up the citedal but um
Yeah

[torpid cargo]

Yeah 3 only had like, 2 endings at best. 3 if you think Fawkes goes in instead of the player or Sarah.

[lofty needle]

Nono over 200 endings as of writing

Thats not an exaggeration

[proven sky]

yeah. base game is deadass you or sarah and thats it. and the fev ending is only accounted for in the form of an ending slide lol

[shadow jolt]

I feel like no matter what ending itd be possible to wipe out the legion

[sand thicket]

This video is peak

https://youtu.be/TR0GEK-l8Xw?si=gM2DqPTtuK3KsNRy

[shadow jolt]

like there would always be remnants

[proven sky]

theres also the super secret 4th ending where you just stand there for 5 minutes and the jefferson memorial explodes and you reload last save

[torpid cargo]

Lmao

[coarse grove]

Yeah, i wanna know how the brothers rallied the tribes.

[proven sky]

thats the best ending ngl

[lofty needle]

Or the ending where i forget the pass code to unlock project purity

[torpid cargo]

Staring at Col Autumn for 5 minutes to assert dominance

[proven sky]

lol

[shadow jolt]

my guess is the smartest survied

[coarse grove]

"For the last time, don't make me repeat myself."

[lofty needle]

Do we know who the second brother is?

[proven sky]

you gotta find out

fallout 5

[coarse grove]

Yes, we have both actors, and both their roles.

[shadow jolt]

the ones not reliant on ceasar for guidance

[lofty needle]

Is there any footage of the second guy

Ive seen the one on caesars throne with culkin as his legate

[coarse grove]

Macaulay Culkin plays the Legate.
Kaleti Williams plays Caesar.

There was pictures

hang on

[lofty needle]

Thank

[sand thicket]

https://youtu.be/VEPaxACqzLU?si=eDh23YvkG6OqJdoN

[lofty needle]

Oh wait are you saying the new xaesar and new legate are the two brothers?

[shadow jolt]

tbh its a miracle the khans even paid lucy and didnt kill her

[coarse grove]

YES.

[eager folio]

LEGION WITH GUNS?!?!!?
IMPOSSIBLE!?!?!?
NEW VEGAS LEGION FAN

[lofty needle]

Ohhh see i thought the new caesar was just one of the brothers with culkin as his right hand man

[normal veldt]

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm2307223/

He's pretty buffed, he could be our Lanius

[proven sky]

man they have real armor

[lofty needle]

But that makes so much more sense

[shadow jolt]

ajax are those leaks

[coarse grove]

I'm waiting for it - #notmylegion

[proven sky]

bring back the repurposed football gear

[coarse grove]

Yes

[shadow jolt]

Fuck you

piece of shit

[torpid cargo]

Homie on the left reminds me of Naiwal.

[lofty needle]

😭

[proven sky]

kill hmi

[coarse grove]

He is confirmed to be Caesar!

[shadow jolt]

@coarse grove are you being serious right now?

[proven sky]

no its ai i made it

[shadow jolt]

ok

[coarse grove]

Yes, we've been talking about it in both this channel, and episode 1 for quite a while.

[proven sky]

dont look at it and dont think about it

its fake

[shadow jolt]

was gonna flip the fuck out

because I hate leaks

[proven sky]

its alright

[lofty needle]

Excited to see more legion next episode

[coarse grove]

If you don't like leaks, probably don't look in this channel because leaks and plot spoilers for future episodes are shared in here. @shadow jolt

[normal veldt]

I meant he could've been Lanius from 15 years ago (who had a lil bro)

[sand thicket]

https://youtu.be/ZhG1l_gc0tY?si=3lAM28ntwBr6iWCC

[proven sky]

i love walton goggins

im in love with walton goggins

[coarse grove]

Oh for sure. I love the Romulus and Remus route they're taking for the Legion plotline.

[lofty needle]

Walter goggins is a national treasure

[proven sky]

i hope walton goggins loves me

[late wedge]

Found the guy who wrote that one review

[shadow jolt]

this is for episode 2 dipshit not leaks

[coarse grove]

Nah, so the story is more like - The Legate and Caesar are brothers, they're both vying for power.

[sand thicket]

This one is peak

https://youtu.be/cp4-gP5566s?si=z6imfNL5FVTxol0K

[late wedge]

Uh yes to wherever that message went

[lofty needle]

Yeye I understand now pretty excited to see culkin as this legate figure

[late wedge]

Speaking of mr Goggins, I technically have a photo of myself receiving a message from Walton at the premiere from S1

[lofty needle]

Surely he wins this conflict right by merit of being a more well known actor

[proven sky]

goodnight nerds. how have i been here for 2 hours already

[coarse grove]

Yeah it pretty much describes the Legion as being like two factions - rather than one cohesive one.

With each brother controling a half of the full Legion.

[late wedge]

He wasn’t there because he was in Thailand shooting the white lotus but he like, sent a video message to his rep after she sent him a clip of us saying hi, then the photographer got a gremlin-looking photo of her showing it to me lmao

[lofty needle]

I got confused for a second that reviewer has got me thinking his name acc is walter lol

[late wedge]

Pretty understandable tbh

[lofty needle]

There's a scene of the two legion factions fighting somewhere in there which is especially interesting because this'll be the first melee only fight scene

[deep wave]

That part in episode 2 where the courier couriered all over the place was crazy

[torpid cargo]

I don’t know, Culkins doesn’t have the testosterone levels to play a Legate of the legion.

[lofty needle]

Im still fascinated by that battle of the earth thing they mention

Probably just speculation from the guy but

[coarse grove]

It was amusing tbh. lol

[coarse grove]

He might be a good portrayal, we dunno yet

[normal veldt]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1SqjoxZXI

It's from this video

[sand thicket]

Crazy coincidence how Walton goggins played another badass character with a zombie like look

In the maze runner

[coarse grove]

I pray that we can actually see, but this was a shot from the Anchorage flashback.
It's so fucking dark.

[torpid cargo]

Battle of Winterfell moment

[coarse grove]

ON GOD.

[torpid cargo]

Makes sense. Like 90% of it would probably be CGI.

[late wedge]

I hope we get some good behind the scenes and VFX breakdowns as time goes on for S2. The show just looks really good and I'd love to see more mixes of what was practical and how their CG went. Like, the stuff on the brotherhood airship from E2 stood out to me as looking annoyingly good compared to what I'd usually expect to see for something like that

[ember elk]

I hate when scenes are so dark that you have to squint and get close to the screen before you get flashbanged by the next scene.

[coarse grove]

For sure, we need this.

[late wedge]

accurate vault exit though. Tbh I was kind of hoping we'd get thatin the scene when Norm surfaced lol

I think S2 is a bit of a step up visually from S1, and S1 already looked great. Things feel increasingly tactile, especially things that I'd think would feel very CGI like the radscorpions or the vertibirds

[coarse grove]

yeah, and we haven't even seen things like the Securitrons or the Deathclaw yet on screen.

[late wedge]

Indeed. And them having parts of the practical deathclaw on set bodes well for good reference, even if it ends up being entirely replaced.

[torpid cargo]

Seeing Securitrons in their natural habitat alongside Mr Gutsy would be amazing.

[late wedge]

I didn't feel like there were particular flaws in S1 (besides Hanks face lmao and damn, that was an improvement already), but S2 still feels like it looks better to me

[coarse grove]

even the props like the cars and such have such a nice touch to them.
Like if i had to be super nitpicky about something - the only thing that looked a little goofy was the Zetan

[late wedge]

Yeahhhhhh I would agree on the Zetan

In my mind though between it seeming to be way more FO3 design than FO4 (and FO4 is the design I tend to think of, not 3's), and it being frozen....I'm choosing to look past it lol

[coarse grove]

Yeah it leaned much more into FO3 - idk if people caught it, too, but the Alien blaster and Alien baton were in Area 51 as well.

[late wedge]

I didn't even care about those...when the SPACESHIP was right there 😄

[coarse grove]

Yeah, the spaceship looked nice, too.

[normal veldt]

Are they gonna sneak in a Nate the Rake cameo?

Any thoughts on these, guys?

[pure kernel]

New episode was pretty damn good ngl

Brotherhood and legion portrayals were pretty good so fat

NCR shady sands scene was interesting too, but I really hope they aren’t just gone as a power pusher after that

[coarse grove]

Other than Nate killing his son. lmao

[pure kernel]

The legion outfits are super spot on too

[coarse grove]

Very doubtful, context clues says that Shady Sands was not the only capital if the sign is to imply anything.

[coarse grove]

Yeah I enjoyed them.

[pure kernel]

Costume design in general is off the charts, ncr looks great, brotherhood looks better than the games ngl

I like the uniforms and flags alot

Poor random alien in the freezer tho

[empty crane]

I can't believe the brotherhood would waste a fully working car

[late wedge]

Okay I HATE to be a conspiracy theorist overanalyzing locations and things like that............................but...bear with me for a second here because I 100% found where they decided to visually place Shady Sands when S1 was being filmed, whether or not it's where they actually intend for it to literally be placed

[normal veldt]

But then that makes the NCR look even more incompetent
I'll just assume Moldaver's actually leading a raider/partisan gang that's NCR in name only
Cos there's no way that they don't have veteran rangers protecting the cold fusion project if the remaining higher-ups knew about it

[late wedge]

One of the more notable buildings in the ruined Shady Sands is this tower behind it

[empty crane]

it's the boneyard

where shady sands was retconned to be

[late wedge]

Yeah basically is what it ends up becoming lol

But the VFX breakdown for S1 actually stuck that building right in there too wayyyy in the background

https://youtu.be/UFI9EK764uc

[pure kernel]

I also just noticed that the ncr troopers and ranger we see were the ones from the leaks potentially : ( Which means those were pre shady sands nuke

[late wedge]

about 1:05 into this is where it is

For this shot, they do the CG breakdown and basically far off to hte right side of the screen they zoom in further

[pure kernel]

I hope they actually put some major emphasis on the rangers considering their elite status in this season

[normal veldt]

I think they still have troops in the Mojave tho? They're just spread thin

[pure kernel]

Heres hoping

Still no sign of enclave, wonder what shenanigans theyll get up to

And mr house

[late wedge]

They end up sticking it way over there weirdly by itself, and then up against it (visually from the angle, not literally) they put the other tower that was in that original message of people trying to figure it out lol

[normal veldt]

The fact that Enclave had Stormtrooper turrets makes me think they're gonna be another faction of incompetent villains

[late wedge]

Assets and stuff get reused all the time, but they definitely decided back in S1 to stick it right in the middle of boneyard area or like real-world west LA / century city area.

I just thought of it because I remembered people trying to figure out those buildings earlier lol

It never really seemed all that ambiguous as to where it was being placed, but for whatever reason people were unsure on it again this morning

[marsh lintel]

So to no one's surprise, Episode 2 also feature issues, Let's get into them shall we?

• So yeah, Lucy and The Ghoul have taken a full on idiotic route towards The Strip. Between Vault 24 and Starlight Drive In last week, and wherever the hell that hospital with GREEN foliage is this week, it's fairly obvious at this point. It's not the Mojave, or at least not a part we've been to. Very weird for them to stop in Novac, and then go a complete opposite direction from where The Strip is. It just makes zero sense. It's just dumb at this point. You can't explain dumb.

• Next we have the guy with the mind control device, this takes place shortly after the events of Fallout New Vegas as mentioned by Todd himself. He said Shady Sands is destroyed right after the events of Fallout New Vegas in 2281. Also the man is saying "Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter, a common saying among the NCR in 2281 in the Mojave. So this scene takes place either in late 2281 or early 2282. The problem? Well it now stands to reason this device was in the Mojave during the time we play the game. Yet we never see a single one, never even hear about it. What makes this further strange is we have direct contact with Mr. House, and even if he said nothing we also have direct contact with Yes Man who has access to his entire network and if you go with his ending, he gets control of everything. Yet these devices are never mentioned during this timeframe. This creates quite the problem.

• So the Brotherhood is just a total mess here. Now mutliple chapters have their own airships which happened to built exactly like that of The Prydwen. Now that it's a pre war design, for some odd reason... I guess it makes a little sense but it's still pretty damn lame since Kells is now a liar for no reason. Also The Commonwealth hasn't been involved yet apparently (til the ending)... yet The Prydwen showed up last season and presumably is the airship they have. Makes no sense at all.

Just a mess, total mess they are making of the franchise with this show. It's sad to see, and it feels quite malicious on the part of the showrunners and Todd. But that's speculation.

[high aspen]

Couldn't you chalk up the mind control device being nowhere to be seen in NV to the fact that the project was heavily kept under wraps?

[normal veldt]

I still find it hard to believe that the NCR actually allowed a crazy (mind controlled) man dragging a nuke all the way to their capital

They didn't have checkpoints asking traders to show their 🪪 or papers? That doesn't make much sense to me (but then it's NCR)

[high aspen]

One farmer was their checkpoint

Truly peak NCR moment

[analog timber]

theres an mind control collard

same shit

[high aspen]

True

[marsh lintel]

Not when you're in direct contact with the guy who created them and a robot who has access to his entire network. It just messes things up

[normal veldt]

It's almost like they don't ask ppl to pay their taxes, wait wu-

[marsh lintel]

Yeah I would be annoyed by that, but this show is such a joke. Stuff like that barely even registers to me at this point

[high aspen]

True, I think they're just trying to retcon most of the Mojave to leave it as blank of a slate as possible

Pretty confusing

[marsh lintel]

I don't remotely understand what they're even trying to do. It honestly feels like they're either trying to destroy it, or throwing random crap at the wall and saying yeah let's go with that. Which is how they make their games so.

[high aspen]

I think they're moving towards an alliance between the NCR and Commonwealth BOS

Just spitballing here though

[normal veldt]

Not really impressed by the Shady Sands flashback ngl
They should've let us see Betty's involvement tbh
So far Betty and Hank seemed to be the only competent pre-war Vault-tec employees
Steph is a great manipulator but she's not good with computers

[marsh lintel]

I don't think there's enough NCR left for that, feels like it's just Remnants now. Much like The Enclave in Fallout New Vegas

[high aspen]

I think they've got more capital cities out there

[normal veldt]

New Vegas nostalgia is great for marketing

But the writing so far hasn't been that great

[marsh lintel]

Yeah it created a lot of issues, and a lot of it was mind numbingly stupid.

[high aspen]

Probably remnants across the Mojave but the NCR as a faction might be doing okay in other places

[marsh lintel]

If that's the case, why not make an attempt to rebuild their capital city? Why not seek revenge, find who did this to them?

[high aspen]

Similar to how the Enclave might not be nearly as weakened as we'd initially thought, they're the ones making the cold fusion tech, and are seemingly still researching FEV as we can take away from that scene in S1

[high aspen]

That's true, maybe if they canonised the House ending, they're already weakened enough in the Mojave that it seemed better to just leave it be

[marsh lintel]

I think the only reason The Enclave exist as they do, is because BGS is simply too lazy and honestly lack the creativity to come up with anything new. So Todd told the showrunners set up The Enclave for a return, we're gonna use them in the next game as the big bad again.

[normal veldt]

They're leaning way too much on showing the wacky, comedic side of Fallout but couldn't figure out how to do the serious stuff that looks intriguing

[marsh lintel]

Yep. 100%

[high aspen]

BOS plotline is pretty interesting so far

[normal veldt]

That's the problem with NCR in the show so far, the only logical explanation is that after Shady Sands got nuked, the republic got into a civil war and fell apart in a few years
Which is something they should've brought up by now (if it's the case)
The writers are treating a country that once controlled entire California (and beyond) like a city state for some reason

[shadow jolt]

im excited for norms story

hes a leader now of a group of people

[coarse grove]

It's genuinely not that deep. The bomb getting in is a classic case of negligence since the NCR is confirmed to have taken down the laser grid checkpoint that ss used to have, and it is stressed a million times in FNV Kimball's leadership is not good and causes them resource shortages and man-power. People have to stop treating like the NCR like they had the best design, democracy is good - and it works. But it's also flawed and slow - two things can be true at the same time, it's not black and white. And when you have a shitty leader, one who focuses on expanding instead of bolstering? It's going to enable situations like Shady sands to happen. It's still preferable, but let's be genuine about what potentially could've happened.

Kimball's leadership was and is the worst thing the ncr has experienced annd caused massive issues.

[tawdry horizon]

I think it's interesting as a plot device because it also ties in thematically with Hank directly pushing the button to detonate

It directly implicates him in choosing to kill these people

Rather than separating him from the act by hacking into a silo and launching a missile

He chose to deliver a bomb directly and pushed the button

[eager folio]

But it also shows he is shaken by it

Clearly showing taht he has done something awful but did it to his belief or to protect his identidy

[tawdry horizon]

He's show literally and figuratively washing his hands of the situation

[coarse grove]

They have more capital cities. You have to consider this.

The NCR probably didn't have any attacks on Shady Sands for a while. Probably raiders, but when was the last time someone tried sneaking in a fucking nuke?
And before people try to argue that the Legion is a threat - the Legion wishes they had to skill to waltz a nuke into an NCR capital, but they're willfully ignorant to not handle technological things like that.

The only other faction in the Mojave that is capable of using a Nuke is Mr. House. But without the Courier, Mr House didn't send out nukes, or send out payloads of nuclear devices to people. He used agents.

Reason why NCR didn't seek out who did it, is because they quite literally don't know who did it nor would they have the tools to get into Hank's vault - and is it really far-fetched to assume they got scared? Kimball apparently dies in the Shady Sands nuke. Instead of trying to figure out who did it, they pulled forces out - even left quite a bit behind. This signals a swift retreat that left supplies, people, and territory behind.
Moldaver was the only one who knew, because of Lucy's Mother, and this is where Moldaver's character comes into question. She knew Hank blew up Shady Sands and didn't tell the NCR what she knew.
but it can also be explained that she maybe didn't have the evidence to support it. Who knows.

[high aspen]

Yeah, exactly. It's shown to be planned in such a way that the NCR can't really do much after the fact

[tawdry horizon]

Could have even been as he was repeating the Mohave phrase any checkpoints could have thought he was a PTSD trader and took pity on him

I'm interested to see what Hank is trying to do, to me it seems like more complex instructions than just "walk there pulling this"

[high aspen]

He's just trying to pick up where vault-tec left off, I think he's just shown to have gone full-on delusional

[tawdry horizon]

He clearly got one to work for a time

[normal veldt]

The laser grid checkpoint?
Oh yeah, the NCR route in New Vegas is basically you babysitting the republic for their imperialist expansion and all you get at the end is just a golden branch

But I gotta say tho, there are plenty of competent NCR officers in the Mojave like Colonel Hsu, someone should've been able to fill the vacuum (did they all die to the nuke?!) yet we got nobody cept for Moldaver

[coarse grove]

SS used to have a laser checkpoint - the fact it's not present here means it got dismantled.

My point was, the NCR's highlighted issues in FNV would lead directly to the problems that we see - I.E. Shady Sands getting blown up.

[normal veldt]

I'm still curious about Betty's role in Hank's nefarious scheme
She basically told Norm "your dad and I un-alived your mum"

[vagrant jasper]

Ya'll see the sign on the hospital offering cheap treatment for new plague?

My honest hope here is that at the end something like the ncr is created or this plot leads to a better one

[normal veldt]

I kinda agree, yeah

But is the republic military still a thing? If so, why didn't they send more soldiers to protect Moldaver's project at the Observatory?!

[vagrant jasper]

They would have a hard time getting therw

Getting a big army

Maybe a special forces squad

[coarse grove]

It is but how many times IRL has our military been fucked over by our bureaucracy? How many times have politicians or government decisions screwed over, or slowed down, or hindered our military? It happens. A lot.

The soldiers at the observatory were ragtags. Probably still patriots, but not official military or actual NCR military.

[normal veldt]

Hank is low-key becoming a Elijah/Benny 2.0

[coarse grove]

And it was right where Shady Sands blew up. Why on earth would they send the military there if they're scared?

[vagrant jasper]

Logically it doesn't seem like moldaver's group would be too official

[coarse grove]

No, they were ragtags. Look at their gear.

The only way you could tell they were NCR was the flag.

Everything else was Wasteland mishmash.

[vagrant jasper]

By not official I mean not with the ncr army

Like a group of Americans going abroad to steal some oil barrels or smth

[coarse grove]

Yeah, I knew what you meant.
And it's unclear if the NCR even had a relationship with Moldaver. We know she was a citizen. We know she helped round up the survivors. But that is it.

The NCR in new vegas had trouble protecting their own caravans or listening to their complaints, same with the farmers. No WAY they suddenly start listening to their citizens like Moldaver.

[vagrant jasper]

I don't think that needs to be the reason. The NCR is clearly in a very bad situation. I don't think they can spare these resources

Trying to capture this head for unlimited energy?

Not sure they would even believe it

[coarse grove]

Oh yeah I agree. I'm just hammering home that the events of FNV make it clear, even with the Courier's help, the NCR is suffering a death by a thousand cuts.

[coarse grove]

And considering they have a new president with Kimball dead, we have no idea what that President's ideas or vision is. He could've just refused to go back to the Mojave.

[vagrant jasper]

That's honestly possible

Maybe the battle of hoover dam goes badly or it ends up being a long slaughterhouse

And NCR citizens vote to abandon it to fight the brotherhood

Or focus internally

[coarse grove]

It's said the Hoover dam battle was a fog of war. It makes me wonder if everyone suffered losses, everyone lost it, but no one gained it, so everyone 'wins'.

[normal veldt]

Yeah, pretty much, which is why I'm so worried
Def not happy with only seeing troopers in some flashbacks
It seems more than likely that the NCR no longer has any actual military capability in 2296

[coarse grove]

I think they have the capability, i just don't believe the Mojave is their focus anymore.

A government like that doesn't crumble with one city gone.

[vagrant jasper]

They should still be present. My guess is that they exist but only in the heartlands

[coarse grove]

I'd give them more credit, even though im criticizing them. I was mostly pointing out that the NCR probably still suffers from the issues that were made clear in FNV. And that takes time to fix. With a new president, that president could be trying to focus on that.

[vagrant jasper]

The Fallout one areas

[coarse grove]

We're going to see some NCR soldiers at camp golf with the ghoul.

And we're probably gonna get answers there

[vagrant jasper]

I can't wait for the next episode

Watching this second season as it comes out has been "peak" as the kiddos say

It's nice looking at stuff, noticing all the details as well and the great sets

[normal veldt]

Oh, I'm not thinking about the Mojave
Everyone in California knew about Moldaver but for some reason she never thought about contacting or informing any NCR commanders about her cold fusion project
And no other faction (Enclave) is attacking the BoS for the unlimited power?

[vagrant jasper]

The enclave peobs way too weak and we don't know how many people knew

[normal veldt]

The bounty posters were everywhere, the Ghoul said so

[coarse grove]

It's safe to assume the Enclave is operating under more Secret Service approach given that it's confirmed the Secret Service is intact and has numbers.

Cause if we're saying the Enclave was wiped out in Raven Rock? Then the last confirmed branch is the Secret Service.

[normal veldt]

Assuming they're actually competent (ignoring the turrets) then their best option would be to attack during the BoS civil war

[vagrant jasper]

Maybe in that area but the ncr is nit present there and the bounty doesn't tell people "head has infinite power source" because they would take it

[coarse grove]

The secret service approach is different though.
And it's possible they have an overarching plan involved.

[normal veldt]

It's very likely that Moldaver's ragtag gang is working entirely alone but it wouldn't make sense if they still haven't informed any NCR commanders by now

[vagrant jasper]

If they informed it doesn't mean the ncr would act on it

[normal veldt]

Dane is a double agent that works for the Enclave/East Coast BoS?

[vagrant jasper]

A couple people go to your crippled republic in a bad situation and ask you for help to get a head that has infinite energy. You believe that and if you do enough would you spare the resources despite the chances of them taking it instead of anybody else being low

It the kind of risk they might just not be willing to take

[normal veldt]

I low-key recall someone said that Max eventually rejoined the republic (he was wearing the NCR uniform in some trailer?) so maybe they do plan on retaking the energy

[coarse grove]

No, people were jumping to conclusions because Max was wearing the NCR power armor to fight the deathclaw.

[normal veldt]

NCR what now

[coarse grove]

NCR Power Armor, it's what Max uses to fight the death claw in the trailer.

It's Ranger Power armor basically.

But it looks like someone gives it to him specifically for the fight for the strip, it seems like the Armor was left behind.

[normal veldt]

You mean riot gear or actual power armour?

[coarse grove]

Actual Power Armor.

[normal veldt]

Dayum

[coarse grove]

Which is one of the reasons it makes me think the NCR made a retreat from just the Mojave.

Because the only PA the NCR had was salvaged armor from the Helios one battle.

And they slapped it on NCR heavy troops

[normal veldt]

I mean... Shouldn't that make them have more presence in California?

We didn't see actual NCR military in S1

[coarse grove]

I don't think we went to any locations that we knew of that had stronger ncr presence in S1 aside from SS.

[normal veldt]

Not true
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Royez
Although I'm pretty sure that functional PA is reserved for high level NCR commanders only

[coarse grove]

Yeah, but this is the only person we see with it, I remember we had this discussion in epsiode 1, but Royez was probably a War Hero, or something to that extent.

Cause the wiki specifically states even for that armor - "At some point, Royez came to possess the unique Scorched Sierra power armor, decorated with a taxidermized bear head and various ornamental pieces, and unlike most suits of NCR salvaged power armor, retained the joint servos to function like standard power armor."

Unlike most suits of NCR salvaged PA.

Almost all the NCR Power armors are salvaged because of Helios 1.

[normal veldt]

An actual colonel, imagine seeing Cassandra Moore turned into a ghoul in the show, would be super duper wild ngl

[coarse grove]

I am very curious as to the state of the bigger locations like Nellis, etc etc but idk if we'll ever see it.

[normal veldt]

I low-key doubt we'll see the Boomers this season

We haven't even seen any Followers yet

[vagrant jasper]

Lucy interacting with the followers would be interesting

[errant bobcat]

Man the bleak contrast, Max had to say goodbye to his parents and hear them and his hometown get incinerated.

Meanwhile Lucy and Norm were getting a bedtime story lmao.

[coarse grove]

Yeah. I don't think Max was old enough to understand what happened until later when the Brotherhood rescued him, too.

[rocky igloo]

Technically "Aliens under the Mojave" is actually true now

[normal veldt]

"Norm becomes evil leader of Vault 31" ☑️

Yo, do you guys think Bud's brain is dead or?

[errant bobcat]

well there was no protest from him so i think yea

i can't tell if Norm broke his brain tank or not

[coarse grove]

There was no fluid in the tank it looked like